Alpha Centauri 2

Community => Recreation Commons => Topic started by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

Title: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 04:28:14 PM
I just blocked my first rude stranger on Facebook the other night.  A 'friend' had 'liked' a Gizmodo article link post Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren Are Fighting for Cheaper Internet and it had naturally turned into one of those FB Bernie presidential conversations.  The following happened:

Quote
[BU's FB sock] He's the current front-runner for my vote next time...
Like · Reply · 2 · July 10 at 8:37pm
(Two 'likes', BTW.)
Quote
[Some guy] Next time why not now?
Like · July 10 at 9:44pm
Quote
[BU's FB sock] As soon as the primaries come to my state - I don't get a lot of say...
Like · July 10 at 9:46pm
(Some doink posted a pic of Stephen Hawking captioned "Drifting away from your Bull[poop]" -and screw it - no inappropriate unpleasantness with strangers welcome on planet BU.  I quickly found out how to block him.)
Quote
[BU's FB sock] Classy.
Like · July 10 at 11:49pm

Prior to any subsequent reactions, I had followed up:
Quote
[BU's FB sock] 25 years experience straddling both houses of Congress on top of nine years executive office as the (GOOD at it) mayor of Burlington Vermont? Why couldn't we have had anyone nearly as qualified running the last two times?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 9:20pm
-Which [Some guy] 'liked'.

---

My point was entirely not to do with ideology, but with experience/competence.  Bakrama had to take his window of opportunity when it was there, but the lack of dues paid/experience qualifying has shown in his tepid presidency, I think, for all that his greater problem is trying to be conciliatory in the face of implacable intransigent (Nazi) opposition.  Sanders has paid a lot more dues than any Democrat to run in recent memory, and I'm really impressed by that.

I still have Clinton fatigue on top of the newer 'Bama fatigue - at least with Sanders, he ain't black or a woman or a Clinton, and he owns his socialist tendencies, so the opposition might have to come up with a better quality of poo-slinging.

What I'd really like to see is a qualified centrist - who still has the guts and leadership to take on and dismantle the alarming fascist trends in our government of the last 14 years.  I do not enjoy the childish squealing of the secret (if that) racist/selfishness/nazi crap-talk party when a Democrat gets in, and I'd love to see the party cough up someone less polarizing - the thing that moderate Obama should have been if he'd been perceived publically as the centrist compromiser he is (when we needed a populist firebrand cleaning house of Nazis - we got the worst of all worlds with him).

All republicans who have not explicitly denounced the excesses of the Cheney Occupation are simply out of the question for any office under any conditions - that's a non-starter for me, and will be for a long time to come.  -Also, [Sleezebag] is an embarrassment to the species.  (Chris Christie wouldn't be out of the question if he did the kind of really firm denouncement he's certainly capable of - I like my conservatives generating their own talking points.)

I'm categorically against close relatives of presidents being President - 100% failure rate on that, excepting FDR, and one half put in office against the expressed will of the majority.  (Also categorically against generals, but they have an incredibly better record than relatives.  Both are dangerous to democracy, and better is not the same as good.)

Anyway, Sanders seems to Get Things Done and have the CV.  There's my vote, provisionally. 

Thoughts?  Like anyone out there for President and why?
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on July 13, 2015, 05:15:52 PM
Sanders is also my favorite, though if Hillary wins the primaries I'll probably vote R.
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 05:25:13 PM
That there's some real Clinton fatigue - or is it her obviously calculating way as a candidate that makes it far too clear that she wants it too bad and can't be trusted?  Or all of the above?

You're a New Yorker, I bet, and have seen more of her shoddy campaign act than most.

Funny thing?  I LOVED her as first lady -and thought she exceeded expectations as Secretary of State in her public conduct, so big points for that- but I can't STAND her as a candidate and thought she was a terrible Senator (like most Democrats in either house under Cheney, who should be run out of public life as the Collaborators they are).
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 13, 2015, 05:27:27 PM
Ah, if only it would matter...

I live in Utah, my vote will be red whether I like it or not.  Thank you electoral college...
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 05:31:21 PM
NO.  No thank you for anti-democratic mistakes built into the system without a lot better justification than that one has.

Here in North Carolina, I've been in the position of casting protest votes in the primaries a lot -fortunately, the state's only going through a fascist phase and sometimes my vote would count for something if we weren't so late in the primary cycle.  I've voted for people I thought would make terrible presidents (Jesse Jackson twice) because I thought they still stood for something important, or someone who was officially out of the race before NC (Paul Tsongas) because I didn't like anyone still in the running.  There's a kind of what-the-heck power in voting for someone you know will lose for the principal of it, especially when you know your vote won't even count...  I actually think my habits of dissent make my vote more important, not less, when it comes to whether to put shoes on and leave the house and bother to be heard...
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 13, 2015, 05:33:17 PM
I do have to admit to liking [Sleezebag] as a candidate, though.  We need more comic relief in these things, and he's the closest thing we could get to Colbert (in character) running.
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on July 13, 2015, 05:37:48 PM
That there's some real Clinton fatigue - or is it her obviously calculating way as a candidate that makes it far too clear that she wants it too bad and can't be trusted?  Or all of the above?

Not Clinton fatigue, but a mix of the fact that I (following my mother's example) think she can't be trusted, plus the fact that I have mixed leanings anyway and Sanders appeals to the areas where I lean left and Clinton doesn't.
Title: Re: Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
See my edit on my last, Uno.


That makes sense, Yitzi - it was no coincidence that when, two cycles back, Anne Coulter was so put out with McCain, she threatened on Fox to campaign for Mrs. Clinton...

I don't know as much about Sanders as I'd like yet, but I gather that people tend to over-emphasize his ideology and ignore a record of Getting Things Done...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 13, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
I'm voting for Kodos.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 06:20:31 PM
I like Kang better.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 13, 2015, 06:28:25 PM
I think I'll vote for a third party candidate. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 06:29:10 PM
Hey - y'all godless furiners who don't count speak up anyway...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 13, 2015, 07:15:42 PM
More seriously, I am so unenthusiastic about the presidential race. I am confident that Hillary will make for a palatably decent leftie. I'm also very tired of the right not being able to find candidates who aren't comically awful. I am registered independent for weird philosophical reasons, so I don't get to participate in the primaries in Maryland. And Maryland is blue anyway, so my vote in the general doesn't much matter.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 08:18:14 PM
...I think Hilary might make a decent President, not counting the unbearable Clinton hating that comes with the package - and I do mean unbearable.  I wouldn't care about let that part influence me if she otherwise pleased me more.  I suspect once in office -and so far the buncle powers say we better brace ourselves, 'cause there's just no one else- she'll actually do a good job.  But I think as a candidate, she's contemptible, hardly any better than the other side.  And not over here looking to forgive for collaborating in the Senate.

See also my previous remarks about her as First Lady v. Senator v. Sec o' State.

See also my previous remarks about protest votes.  They are not without power, rather like how lawyers read Supreme Court minority reports and sometimes actually cite them in practicing law.  Please do not let yourself be silenced.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 13, 2015, 08:35:04 PM
I'm one of those Hillary haters. I cross party lines to vote against her. She just spikes my blood pressure every time I see her on TV. She seems one of the most insincere people I've ever seen. The woman who refused to give her healthcare task force staff enough hours to qualify for healthcare. Power-hungry and untrustworthy.

Well, you get the idea.

I don't want another Clinton or Bush in the race ( and I admired George the elder for his career of public service ) . Bring any of them back is bringing back old boy staffers.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 13, 2015, 08:40:16 PM
There aren't any candidates who even approximate my real views, so it's simply not possible for me to cast a principled protest vote. My strategy with voting is to put the kinds of people in office who will make noises about the kinds of things I think are important so that children will be raised in an environment that makes them predisposed to being brainwashed into believing my insane ideas. I don't actually vote for candidates because I think they will create the kind of society I want to live in, or even because I think they will be enact good policies.

For example, Obamacare is a pretty awful variety of universal healthcare and I don't particularly support it as a policy, but I think its mere continued existence increases the chances that people in the US grow up with the ingrained assumption that society should, at a minimum, guarantee you a healthful life.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2015, 09:10:10 PM
Well yes.

I can't recall a whole handful of candidates for anything in front of me for whom I had enthusiasm, and I been at it since 1983.  (I once voted twice for president in the general - my senile maternal grampa remembered that it was election day, and needed help with his ballot, so I checked off Bob Dole and canceled out my own vote for Clinton - Bob Dole is not terrible at all and I can live with that easily.  [Fortunately, Grampa lost interest after President, 'cause Jesse Helms was next, and I'm VERY not okay with that.])

But THIS is AMERICA, and if all they ever give me is clowns, dummies who are wrong, evil people and ineptitude, if NO ONE ever represents ME, well DAMMIT, I AM GOING TO BE HEARD on whom I think is the lesser of two evils - or what my protest vote is.  It is my duty as a citizen, and frankly, rather a pleasure, given the stupid world I'm trapped in.

I'm one of those Hillary haters. I cross party lines to vote against her. She just spikes my blood pressure every time I see her on TV. She seems one of the most insincere people I've ever seen. The woman who refused to give her healthcare task force staff enough hours to qualify for healthcare. Power-hungry and untrustworthy.

Well, you get the idea.

I don't want another Clinton or Bush in the race ( and I admired George the elder for his career of public service ) . Bring any of them back is bringing back old boy staffers.
We think a lot alike.  I recall actually defending the real George Bush to someone presumably left of me back in the day - "He's not that bad", "He has some good points" and tepid stuff like that, but defense nonetheless.

He wasn't all bad - and yes, the career in public service; he actually tried to be a real ambassador to China, and his presidency demonstrated that he learned a lot.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 13, 2015, 10:29:16 PM
At this stage the field is full of potential.

Another issue I have with a Clinton or Bush is that I don't think that they would be true reformers, and I think the government has a lot of room for meaningful reform.

Real Reformers-

Scott Walker http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Walker (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Walker)  is declaring today. He's the governor of Wisconsin, and is famous/notorious for reforming. The fundamental question is "Do the taxpayers exist for the benefit of the government workers, or do government workers exist for the benefit of the taxpayers?"  Beyond his credentials as a fiscal conservative and proven campaigner, Walker is the son of a Baptist preacher, and you can predict his social opinions from that.

Mark Everson http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Everson (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Everson) is a former bureaucrat who has grand ideas for banking and IRS reform. He promises to be a one and done president. I think he and his ideas need more attention.

Rand Paul http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Paul/ (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Paul/) seems to be as libertarian as we are likely to get in the GOP this time.  I don't think he has the disposition and integrity of his father, but right now I think he is one of the last, best hopes for keeping us out of war in the Middle East.

Bernie Sanders http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Sanders/ (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Sanders/) recognizes  both the oligarchy, and the evil of the Citizen's united decision which grants personal rights to corporations. He would work to overturn it with a constitutional amendment.

Well, I have problems with all of these guys. My question is, among the declared candidates, who would you consider a sincere reformer, and which are their issues?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2015, 05:10:07 PM
I'll have to find out more about Scott Walker, then. Pretty sure I never heard of Mark Everson, but your endorsement carries weight with me...

You put your finger on the thing I think about Rand Paul, especially v. his possessed-of-infinitely-more-integrity-and-guts dad, except I'd assert much more strongly what a chimp he is.  Dr. Ron's frequently wrong, but he's one of the very, very few with the guts to be standing up to the fascism in public before it got popular and safe to do so, and I admire him intensely.  I wouldn't take ten of his boy, not 100, in trade for him - it's the Bushes again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2015, 06:00:33 PM
I'm talking about legitimate reformers. I don't know if I want any of them to actually become president, so much as bring their ideas to the campaign and debates.  If Everson is appointed secretary of the Treasury, that's a win.

I'm sure you'll hear more about Walker, likely in terms of messiah or anti-Christ. I watched his announcement speech, and it was refreshing to see a fellow give the entire thing without a teleprompter. I suspect he is Jeb's worst nightmare, or will be. Walker is easy to misunderestimate.

The trouble is his Baptist Bundle of views. Kinda strong on the pro-life/sanctity of marriage stuff. Enough to write off the gays and lots of women. Probably not enough to stop him from getting the Republican nomination. When it comes to the middle east, he sounds like an articulate version of Santorum. That scares me, but that might be another thread.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 14, 2015, 06:32:35 PM
Pretty sure I never heard of Mark Everson, but your endorsement carries weight with me...

Mark Everson was the lead designer (or something) on an alt civ game called Clash of Civilizations being developed a decade and a half-ish ago. Anyone in the civ community gets my vote.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2015, 06:38:14 PM
Yes; I'm sure that's the same Mark Everson. ;)

I'm talking about legitimate reformers. I don't know if I want any of them to actually become president, so much as bring their ideas to the campaign and debates.  If Everson is appointed secretary of the Treasury, that's a win.

I'm sure you'll hear more about Walker, likely in terms of messiah or anti-Christ. I watched his announcement speech, and it was refreshing to see a fellow give the entire thing without a teleprompter. I suspect he is Jeb's worst nightmare, or will be. Walker is easy to misunderestimate.

The trouble is his Baptist Bundle of views. Kinda strong on the pro-life/sanctity of marriage stuff. Enough to write off the gays and lots of women. Probably not enough to stop him from getting the Republican nomination. When it comes to the middle east, he sounds like an articulate version of Santorum. That scares me, but that might be another thread.

AHHH, so THAT'S where I'd gotten my vague impression that Walker was a chimp.

What you're talking about, I call the Perot Effect - a terrible candidate who has a decidedly positive effect by showing up.  He was (more or less; economics is complex) right on his big issue, Clinton would never have summoned up the will to submit balanced budgets to Congress if it hadn't been for him - and he had enough going that the real candidates were afraid to ignore him and just trash each other, which, despite his own lack of class, REALLY classed-up the 92 campaign.

I miss the little dummy every presidential cycle since he finally went away.

(The two times I cast primary protest votes for Jesse -who might make the worst president ever- were on similar grounds as all the right-wingers who 'threw away' their votes on a man who couldn't win and wouldn't even establish a movement about his issues and not him.  Jesse still stood for some important poor-people issues so much so that my somewhat bigoted dad voted for him once.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 14, 2015, 08:40:43 PM
On the subject of Hillary's campaigning, I'm not sure that judging a candidate by how they campaign is necessarily all that useful, as weird as that sounds. For example, many commentators say that Obama's 2008 campaign was nearly "flawless," yet as an actual president he's been mediocre. /me shrugs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2015, 08:54:24 PM
I don't think you're wrong about that -Al Gore actually seems to be a good man who is a terrible campaigner (and rather a [person of unmarried parents] in that mode)- but we also know about the Clinton habit of throwing people under the bus -their "friends", usually- and that ain't all MR. Clinton.  Nixon could have gotten away scot-free if he hadn't taken a principled stand trying to protect his loyal people, you know.

I HATE backstabbers with the fiery passion of a thousand exploding galactic cores - though I already admitted that I think she'd probably make a decent president; she's a capable and proven administrator with Senate and Executive Branch experience.  However, I will not vote for her for anything, ever, unless I think it's close, and I'll be astonished if it comes to that, 'cause it still looks like it's hers to lose with NO viable challengers on the horizon.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 14, 2015, 09:00:47 PM
I'm probably too cynical for my own good. I assume any politician who doesn't appear to be a backstabber just hasn't been caught.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2015, 09:11:35 PM
Reminds me of something Bruce Vilanch said about Woopie - they're collaborators, not really friends like people assume, because she's a lovely woman, but SHE's a STAR, with a star's look-out-for-number-one psychology who doesn't really have time for him outside the work.  He went on to observe that he could probably be a star (HA) if he wanted it bad enough, but he's just not got the right mindset. 

I think politicians are a lot like that - politics aren't even showbidness for ugly people, or Nixon would have won over Kennedy and lightweights like Romney and Perry and John Edwards wouldn't have made it so far.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2015, 10:11:27 PM
Well, yeah, bring on the Perot effect.

An American presidential campaign is a great test of energy and organizational ability. If you can't run nationwide, you can't become president. That seems pretty reasonable to  me. Running one of the largest countries in the world isn't easy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2015, 10:44:48 PM
;nod And John Kerry wasn't competent to be president, yes - he had an easy campaign against a vulnerable opponent and blew it. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2015, 07:01:41 PM
Everson, calls on [Sleezebag] to quit. 
-to-end-campaign/]http://markforamerica.com/mark-everson-calls-for-[Sleezebag]-to-end-campaign/ (http://markforamerica.com/mark-everson-calls-for-[Sleezebag)


“Donald [Sleezebag]’s defense of his announcement speech demonizing Mexican immigrants only makes matters worse. After accusing the Mexican government of a deliberate policy of shipping criminals across the border, [Sleezebag] broadens his charge, stating “The United States has become a dumping ground for Mexico and, in fact, for many other parts of the world.”  [Sleezebag] clearly has neither an understanding of nor respect for America’s immigrant tradition. His words divide at a time when we need to unite and reinforce our proud tradition of assimilation. We must move to secure our borders and reform our immigration system. Unfortunately, Donald [Sleezebag]’s continued presence in the 2016 presidential contest makes this national imperative more unlikely. He should stand down and spare us all the ugliness of his candidacy.”
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2015, 07:13:27 PM
Everson has a way with words.

Donald [Sleezebag]’s continued presence on Earth makes human evolution -and lack of embarrassment to be human- more unlikely. He should finance an expedition to Alpha Centauri and then exit the universe quietly and entirely to spare us all the ugliness of his existence. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 15, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
But the ugliness of his candidacy is one of the few things to look forward to...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2015, 08:15:18 PM
I suffer Kardasians in my universe w/o a problem, but I concluded that that guy was a douchbag a very long time ago; he's drag on the rotation of the planet, and the joke's not funny.  He's got to go.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2015, 09:22:17 PM
[Sleezebag] is the kind of guy who makes me look forward to seeing Saturday Night Live, Colbert, etc., but makes me cringe whenever I hear him speak, because I know he's serious.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2015, 10:01:36 PM
So much love for something so unlovable coming out of his mouth...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 17, 2015, 07:32:21 PM
Hey - A thing I've been remiss in mentioning w/ regard to steeling ourselves for a Hilary win?

Mr. Clinton will. make. the. best. First. Lady. EVAH.  -Suddenly sending the First Lady to anything, say, a foreign head of state's funeral, will be better than the Vice President sticking his head in.  He'll even do a good job of the traditional throwing parties and dressing up pretty stuff...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 17, 2015, 07:48:07 PM
If and when, he should be known as "The First Dude".
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2015, 02:53:33 PM
First Lady is an important role, given the right wife doing it.  Michelle Obama is pretty much perfect, BTW.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2015, 04:49:00 PM
But the ugliness of his candidacy is one of the few things to look forward to...


Shamelessly ripped off from a JRabbit post at 'poly...

Quote
A Note About Our Coverage Of Donald [Sleezebag]'s 'Campaign'
The Huffington Post
Ryan Grim  Washington bureau chief for The Huffington Post  Danny Shea  Editorial Director, The Huffington Post
Posted: 07/17/2015 | Edited: 07/17/2015 02:07 PM EDT



(http://img.huffingtonpost.com//asset/scaleFit_630_noupscale/55a8fcc81900002600b86edf.jpeg)
Donald [Sleezebag] gestures while speaking surrounded by people whose families were victims of illegal immigrants on July 10, 2015 while meeting with the press at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Beverly Hills, California, where some shared their stories of the loss of a loved one. The US business magnate [Sleezebag], who is running for President in the 2016 presidential elections, angered members of the Latino community with recent comments but says he will win the Latino vote. AFP PHOTO / FREDERIC J. BROWN (Photo credit should read FREDERIC J. BROWN/AFP/Getty Images)



After watching and listening to Donald [Sleezebag] since he announced his candidacy for president, we have decided we won't report on [Sleezebag]'s campaign as part of The Huffington Post's political coverage. Instead, we will cover his campaign as part of our Entertainment section. Our reason is simple: [Sleezebag]'s campaign is a sideshow. We won't take the bait. If you are interested in what The Donald has to say, you'll find it next to our stories on the Kardashians and The Bachelorette.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-note-about-our-coverage-of-donald-trumps-campaign_55a8fc9ce4b0896514d0fd66 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-note-about-our-coverage-of-donald-trumps-campaign_55a8fc9ce4b0896514d0fd66)

---

;b;

This is something more than my personal distaste for the man; he's a joke and this is yet another of his zero-class publicity stunts.  Good call.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2015, 05:16:19 PM
Thanks for sharing this-
"After watching and listening to Donald [Sleezebag] since he announced his candidacy for president, we have decided we won't report on [Sleezebag]'s campaign as part of The Huffington Post's political coverage. Instead, we will cover his campaign as part of our Entertainment section. Our reason is simple: [Sleezebag]'s campaign is a sideshow. We won't take the bait. If you are interested in what The Donald has to say, you'll find it next to our stories on the Kardashians and The Bachelorette."

My wife's reaction- "You gotta love it!"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2015, 05:35:04 PM
There are things in the world no decent person should continence or even dignify with acknowledgement of its existence.

The news media Group Mind does not do this nearly often enough.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2015, 06:35:28 PM
I wonder if The Donald is the Pat Paulson of the new millennia - the campaign that never goes away, but never gets anywhere, either.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2015, 06:52:38 PM
It's not a joke on purpose, I don't think, no.



Mylochka said at lunch that she was (glad but) surprised that Sanders is doing so well.  She figures that he only announced for President hoping for a Perot Effect, influence on pet issues - I think instead he's experiencing the Romney Effect, where the party desperately doesn't want the one whose race it is to lose, something clowns like Santorum and the Grinch benefitted from enormously last cycle.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on July 18, 2015, 07:01:14 PM
Mrs. Clinton is supposed to have a losing hand in your part of the woods?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2015, 07:02:44 PM
I have no idea.  This is a red state, but swingy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 19, 2015, 05:50:02 PM
[Sleezebag] opened his mouth again. I tried to post yesterday, but I was having computer/connectivity issues.

Basically [Sleezebag] said something like this about John McCain-

He's no war hero. What did he do? Get captured?



Well,  for starters, Donald, quite unlike you, he volunteered!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2015, 05:56:26 PM
McCain served with honor (despite having ships blow up under him).

SHAME, the Donald; SHAME. ;no :stop:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 21, 2015, 03:09:32 AM
This article puts McCain and [Sleezebag] in perspective-

-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/]http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-[Sleezebag]-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 21, 2015, 03:23:08 AM
 ;popcorn  Freaks and Clowns.  The question you need be asking is where is the curtain?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 21, 2015, 03:24:39 AM
I hope [Sleezebag] wins.

Maybe then the world will stop laughing at us with our PM.  *sigh*

(http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/z/l/q/p/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.1zlac.png/1338514760293.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2015, 03:52:35 AM
*sigh* indeed.  I haven't seen one of your right-wing rants in years, and haven't missed them.  Your posts were nearly 100% for a while in 2011.

I still wonder what brought that on - I did try to ask.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 21, 2015, 04:02:06 AM
Our PM is Catholic right-wing.  I can only assume from your post you don't realise that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2015, 04:03:55 AM
My Ugly American ignorance, then and fault - but the question stands.  Did Kevin Rudd kill your dog mid-2011?  I'm seriously curious, not asking to attack.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 21, 2015, 04:10:36 AM
My Ugly American ignorance, then and fault - but the question stands.  Did Kevin Rudd kill your dog mid-2011?  I'm seriously curious, not asking to attack.

I apologise, upon re-reading my post above it appears my tone may have come across negatively.

Just assume that from now, my tone is "guarded".  Just so we don't misconstrue each other.   :)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2015, 04:14:21 AM
Oh, I was being no model of tact two posts ago - don't sweat it.


Now, what was with all the politics for a while there?  Something had definitely made you angry and had it on your mind for several months running.  Really asking.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 21, 2015, 04:20:18 AM
Now, what was with all the politics for a while there?  Something had definitely made you angry and had it on your mind for several months running.  Really asking.

Labor created a coalition with the Devil.  That's all, it wasn't that hard to figure out.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2015, 04:23:46 AM
Ugly American here - no idea who the Devil in question is...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 21, 2015, 04:29:21 AM
Ugly American here - no idea who the Devil in question is...

It doesn't matter.  Rudd-Gillard are now gone from politics totally, and the Devil is no longer a political power.

Now we just have the normal run-of-the-mill incompetent politicians on both sides.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2015, 04:35:42 AM
I have no trouble believing that, sir.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 22, 2015, 12:44:25 AM
New ABC/Washington Times Poll paces [Sleezebag] at top with 24%

[Sleezebag] has a big lead, but he put his foot in his mouth on the McCain thing, and he polled "significantly less" on the last day of the poll.
[Sleezebag]   24%
Walker   13%
Bush      12%
Huckabee 8%

Followed by-
Rubio
Carson
Paul
Cruz
Perry
Christie

Only the top 10 contenders based upon average of recent polls will be included in the debate.

Kasich, Jindal, Santorum, Pataki, Fiorina, and Graham  have their work cut out for them.
No mention of Everson.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2015, 12:55:43 AM
...A reason Christy is doing so badly, I think?  Frankly, to the extent the news media IS liberal -and Mylochka watches a lot of MSNBC when she's keeping up with the news- they're afraid of Christy, and have put considerable effort into keeping him down.  His sort of brusque/rude New Joisy tell-it-straight talk, while not without enormous risks in a career when a man lives and dies by charm, has enormous potential appeal.  And he generates his own talking points, always, which I respect...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2015, 03:45:17 AM
Rusty, I don't recall whether you were involved in the discussion at the Pond of the Republican primaries during the last cycle, but this thread makes me miss Alexander.  I speak Republican fluently enough, and that was a worthy conversation...

I wish I understood how he could nurse a grudge for so long over a creative difference in a collaboration (when he. was. WRONG! and considerably more rude and assertive than I, the one with years of demonstrated expertise on SMACX custom leaderheads creation, and I still wasn't the one to walk away.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2015, 04:32:53 AM
I was involved in the discussion, but I remember Ben, and miss Arnelos when I think of it.

I don't know what dispute you had with Alexander, and I certainly miss him. Here's a guess-

Maybe it was something like the reason I left WPC.  Basically, I couldn't go there and control my temper any more. I started a thread that was a "No Obama zone" . It was to be about board member's personal observations and experiences, without praising or blaming gov & political parties. We had plenty of that elsewhere. I wanted to know how the rest of the guys were weathering the Great Recession. One person continued to violate the premise. I think he just read stuff and responded without regard to what the  thread was. Impulsivity. But it made me mad, and I didn't want to be mad at him, because he's not a bad person. I liked him. I asked him not to do it, but he persisted.

He couldn't control himself, and I didn't want to be mad at him. So I left.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2015, 04:40:15 AM
I could link the collaboration thread if you'd like to assess the conflict for yourself.


I've actually tried to headhunt Arnelos -I like his style- but he didn't join until a couple weeks after I left.  No overlap, there.  I wonder if I'm not getting PM notifications form there anymore or what?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2015, 05:05:58 AM
I have no idea. I deleted my bookmark, I probably disabled e-mail notifications, logged out, and left.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 23, 2015, 08:07:06 AM
Quote
Maybe it was something like the reason I left WPC.

I hope i wasn't part of the problem. :(
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 23, 2015, 02:02:46 PM
I wanted to know how the rest of the guys were weathering the Great Recession.


Don't think I ever covered this in depth.  And I think that thread was after I withdrew from most the internet. 

Lets see...

From 2002-2009, then again from 2011-2014, I worked for a contract which was MEANT to reutilize rocket motors from decomissioned missiles.

This typically came in the form of targets for the GMD program (dummy nukes for them to shoot down), USAF sat launches, and selling the motors to people building their own launch vehicles. 

In 2002, it was a money making program.  By 2013 it was a tremendous cost burden that had to be cut. 

The program was a brief stop for Captains to come make a name and move on to something sexy, like fighter jets.  It's always been that.  No one wants to be stuck working missiles. 

Part of the problem was HORRIBLE management from a Captain that got shoved into it because he couldn't cut it at better offerings in 2008.  His attempt to make a name in 2008-2009 (which he was warned against, constantly) completely backfired and was a 2 year disaster I was brought BACK on to try to fix 2011-2014.  Had it mostly under control in 2013 when it got cut again, not entirely his fault this time.  It's now in a WORSE state, but I will NOT be working under him again if I can avoid it. 

Part of the problem was the sequestration stuff.  Not directly, really, but there became a very pronounced infighting between departments in the Air Force over money. 

I could go on for quite a while on ways the Gubment wastes money, and the secret behind the $1000 toilet seats you hear about (it's not funding MIB). 
________________________________________________________________

Anyhow, I was unemployed Jan - October 2014. 

We saw it coming far enough in advance we were able to prepare so that it didn't really kill us financially, but we were barely treading water during that time financially as well. 

When it began, we kinda figured I'd end up in the job I have presently.  It just took a hell of a lot longer than we expected. 

 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2015, 02:17:27 PM
Aren't the $1000 toilet seats mostly a compensation for off-the-books stuff it would be a huge security risk to be legal and report to congress?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2015, 04:19:19 PM
Quote
Maybe it was something like the reason I left WPC.

I hope i wasn't part of the problem. :(

No, not this issue.

I joined WPC because I had such high regard for you and Solver , with your work as modders and menders of CivIV and Colonization. Also , I always found both of you to be particularly nice if I had a question about modding possibilities.

To the extent that the two of you were the reason I joined, and both of you were around much less when I decided to leave, and I could access you BRR Games instead,  I guess that was a factor.

But really, I divide my time between a few places on the internet, and while I don't like Obama, I get tired of hearing about whether he's the Messiah or the Anti-Christ. I was getting enough of that everywhere else. Yes, I know, freedom of speech is not freedom from speech. I got mad every time I logged in and saw my thread. I thought it was rather disrespectful. So I moved on before I stopped being a gentleman.

No worries, Mate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 30, 2015, 10:14:12 PM
Let us return to our sheep ( it sounds so much better in French )


http://www.mediaite.com/online/which-gop-candidates-will-make-it-into-fox-news-primetime-debate/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/which-gop-candidates-will-make-it-into-fox-news-primetime-debate/)


"With his commanding lead over the rest of the field in recent polls, Donald [Sleezebag] will likely be the most prominent presence on the debate stage, with the rest of the field eagerly jockeying to steal some of his thunder. Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Marco Rubio are locks as well, each consistently placing in the top five in national surveys.

After that, most major polls have Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz hovering in the middle of the pack, averaging in the 5-7% range.

That leaves two more spots; and this is where things get competitive. An analysis by The Washington Post gives the bottom two positions to Chris Christie and John Kasich, relegating Rick Perry to the 5 p.m. ET forum on Fox"

Well, the bottom is a bit volatile, with that tier competing with the margin of error.
Apparently Everson is off the charts. 

I'm pleased to see that Santorum and Perry are competing with the margin of error. I heard too much from them last time around.

I'm glad Paul is going to be there to challenge assumptions. I wish he had a stronger showing.
I predict Walker will not go after [Sleezebag], choosing instead to strive for an endorsement from him when he drops out. [Sleezebag] doesn't like people who talk back to him, and holds a grudge.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 30, 2015, 10:22:02 PM
[Sleezebag]'s not going to last through the first primary - they're spelling his name right right now, is all.  He's no Romney, and all the rest are better men.  ALL.

They're making a bullcrap horserace story outta this.  It won't last.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 30, 2015, 11:02:40 PM
[Sleezebag]'s not going to last through the first primary - they're spelling his name right right now, is all.  He's no Romney, and all the rest are better men.  ALL.

They're making a bullcrap horserace story outta this.  It won't last.

But as a former journalist guy, you must know that they're always looking to do one of two things in a political campaign.

1) Make a horserace.
2) Turn somebody into a bowling pin... set them up front just to knock them down.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 30, 2015, 11:05:46 PM
He's no Romney - he'll be laughed out of the first debate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 12:12:10 AM
He's no Romney - he'll be laughed out of the first debate.

hm...considering making a wager on this...when is this first debate?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 12:13:53 AM
Better yet, is the first primary an open one?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2015, 12:16:03 AM
Dunno; it's early.

I'll put up €1,000 of my own fake forum money, at 10-1 odds, that he does badly when the first debate does happen, if he even lasts until said debate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on July 31, 2015, 12:20:49 AM
Dunno; it's early.

I'll put up €1,000 of my own fake forum money, at 10-1 odds, that he does badly when the first debate does happen, if he even lasts until said debate.

What will qualify as "doing badly"?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2015, 12:25:06 AM
I think he did badly - and believe me, I want him to do badly a lot more than I want to win 100ec.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 01:44:53 AM
By that definition, and your bias, it would be practically impossible for him to do well. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2015, 01:46:10 AM
...So if I have any integrity, I'm basically giving €1,000 away...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 01:52:51 AM
Ok, so first debate is August 6th.  He's presently up 7% in the polls. 

Why don't we come up with a reasonable figure for what is "laughed out".  I'm willing to put up some forum cash (don't know how to do the symbol) to say he carries a lead through that first debate.  (mostly because I don't really care about the store stuff too much and it'll make it more fun)   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 01:54:39 AM
I'll also say that if he's around by the time the primaries start going, and they are OPEN primaries...watch out...a lot of democrats might go vote for him just to mess with the Republicans.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 31, 2015, 01:59:47 AM
Let's ask Rusty to judge [Sleezebag]'s performance, if there's any doubt, not that there will be.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 31, 2015, 02:15:49 AM
First televised debate is Tuesday, August 4th.

Monday Feb 1st. Iowa Caucus  Apparently you can register at the door, so it's essentially "open"

Tuesday Feb  9th New Hampshire primary. Closed.

Saturday Feb 20th  South Carolina primary. Open.

Tuesday Feb 23rd   Nevada caucus   Wiki says- "The Nevada Republican Party caucus is a closed caucus open to those who were registered 30 days before the caucus date, and 17-year-olds who are eligible to vote in the general election in November."

It seems that the Nevada Republicans are working toward a primary, rather than trying to fix the flaws in their caucus system ( low participation, slow counting and reporting ). Whether they can organize that before the time comes remains to be seen.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 31, 2015, 02:54:38 AM
I'll also say that if he's around by the time the primaries start going, and they are OPEN primaries...watch out...a lot of democrats might go vote for him just to mess with the Republicans.   

I think that would be the smartest thing the democrats could do. It will spend the Republicans money, and a longer primary campaign will cause rifts that campaign workers  can't forgive, and they may sit out the general election. Likewise, the ads will go negative, and some of the voters will be disgusted with the Republicans and refuse to vote for them.


More importantly, a high crossover vote will encourage [Sleezebag] to run  as an independent, his ego being what it is. To win Republicans need themselves and independents, and a well funded independent would cut into that.

That could make Hillary a runaway favorite, even with 40-45% of the vote.

 :'(  Excuse me, while I find the thought of another Clinton or Bush intolerable.

A discrete movement of democrats crossing over in the Feb and Mar primaries and caucuses and nationally telling pollsters that they are stout Democrats, but they are enthused for The Donald...   

 :'(  Excuse me again, while I find the thought of another Clinton or Bush intolerable.



As for a debate winner, I'd say go by the next Fox poll after the debate. If [Sleezebag] loses his number 1 position, he loses big.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 31, 2015, 01:30:31 PM

As for a debate winner, I'd say go by the next Fox poll after the debate. If [Sleezebag] loses his number 1 position, he loses big.

I'll take that as the thermometer. 

Freaks and clowns on parade, and my money at this stage is still on the freaks and clowns...gonna be interesting either way.  Don't know if I'll neccessarily WATCH, mind, just interesting to see what comes. 


NPR this morning on the way in had an interesting piece on this.  Mostly focused on how Donald is different than previous self-funded campaigns, and the various advantages/disadvantages that can give him over the traditional candidates.  (basically, he travels and stays everywhere on his own property where previous campaigns were from businessmen in other areas.  And campaign rules give a discount on ad$ for self funded campaigns, so his $ go further than his competitors, even though their superpacks might have more $.)

The CRAZIEST thing, and they didn't explain the maths behind it, is that his SELF-FUNDED campaign right now has actually GENERATED PROFIT.  As long as he can keep in the news cycle, it will continue to do so.  They openly questioned whether this was his intent from the get go, just to make noise and $.  I'm guessing it's from some kind of trademarked stuff he's done that the news has to pay royalties on?  I'm not a finance guy, but can't think of any other way it's a get rich quick scheme. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 31, 2015, 05:38:18 PM
I don't understand that myself, other than if he's staying on his own property, or appraising investment property,  and somehow able to charge travel/lodging  as both a political and business expense for tax purposes. Or get reporters to stay at his hotels for access, maybe.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: PLATO on August 01, 2015, 05:16:13 PM
While I think that [Sleezebag] is a bit of an idiot when it comes to politics, he is pushing issues that have been simmering with many voters in a plain talk kind of way.  I am hopeful that when voters actually start to look at solutions to these problems that he will begin to fade rather quickly.  At this stage of the campaign I think his involvement is a net plus for the republicans.  Lot's of mudslinging will be out of the way before primary season gets going in earnest.  Many issues will have positions tested that probably would not have been at this early stage.  The national focus right now is on the republican party and it is their candidates that are gaining in name recognition and getting the nightly sound bites.

If this continues into February, then it might become a negative, but for now I think [Sleezebag] is a net plus.

Also...Rusty, I couldn't agree more on the Clinton-Bush comment.  With 20 out of the last 28 years being dominated by those two families, it is definitely time for a change!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2015, 06:28:57 PM
Also...Rusty, I couldn't agree more on the Clinton-Bush comment.  With 20 out of the last 28 years being dominated by those two families, it is definitely time for a change!

End the American oligarchy!

Welcome to alphacentauri , PLATO !
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2015, 07:02:31 PM
Thing is, if [Sleezebag] hasn't utterly humiliated himself in the polls by the time he admits he's lost the primaries, he'll probably run as an independent - this would be very bad news, of the Perot sort, for the right...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: PLATO on August 01, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
Not so sure that he would run.  [Sleezebag]'s ground teams are virtually non-existent.  He would have to have party support to mount any kind of an effective run.  Even Perot had a fairly well organized ground team.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2015, 08:25:25 PM
Not so sure that he would run.  [Sleezebag]'s ground teams are virtually non-existent.  He would have to have party support to mount any kind of an effective run.  Even Perot had a fairly well organized ground team.
I guess it depends on why he's running, doesn't it?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: PLATO on August 01, 2015, 08:36:33 PM
 ;lol

Good Point!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2015, 12:19:19 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html)

"Washington (CNN)—The wait is over.

Fox News said Tuesday that Republican presidential candidates Donald [Sleezebag], Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Chris Christie and John Kasich will all appear on the dais Thursday for the first prime-time debate of the primary season.

The seven other major declared candidates -- Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Jim Gilmore -- will appear at a debate earlier Thursday evening.
"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 05, 2015, 06:26:16 PM
Are those seventeen all Republican candidates? Wow, almost like in European politics. ;cute
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2015, 07:21:11 PM
Yes. All Republicans, and there are a few more that not many people have heard of, or at least know that they are running.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 05, 2015, 07:28:05 PM
Just found a list of 2016 presidential candidates (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/). I didn't realize there were also quite a number of Democratic opponents. And then all those others and independents. Has one of those two latter groups even ever achieved a seat or position or something on the federal level?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2015, 08:56:52 PM
Just found a list of 2016 presidential candidates (http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/). I didn't realize there were also quite a number of Democratic opponents. And then all those others and independents. Has one of those two latter groups even ever achieved a seat or position or something on the federal level?


If I understand you correctly, no.

Bernie Sanders, running as a Democrat, is a sitting a Senator and also the longest serving independent in the House of Representatives. 

Rand Paul is running as a Republican, and is a sitting Senator. He has good Libertarian credentials.

The Libertarians are probably the strongest third party, and have elected federal legislators, but I don't think any of these have run for president or federal office before.

The Constitutionalists  are a religious party. Mostly for private schools, and against abortion and gay marriage. Same with many of the independent candidates.  They might be a force if they could organize into a united party, but they can't organize into one protestant church, so I doubt they can pull anything off. All that the Christian faction has succeeded in doing recently is lose federal  elections for the Republicans.

The others want a soap box.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 05, 2015, 11:04:44 PM
I meant on the Senate or Congress level, so Sanders seem to fit my question.
How are things on the state level? Are their State governments who don't solely consist of Democrats or Republicans?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2015, 05:06:53 AM
I meant on the Senate or Congress level, so Sanders seem to fit my question.
How are things on the state level? Are their State governments who don't solely consist of Democrats or Republicans?

New Hampshire, for certain. Alaska has a few. On the other end, California with 180 seats in the combined state houses, has no independents or minor party representatives.

But mostly Americans believe in a two party system as if it were enshrined in The Constitution. Not only that, they seem to think that they are throwing away their votes if they don't vote for a Republican or Democrat, as if those particular parties were enshrined in the Constitution, too.

Don't get me wrong, sitting members of Congress do everything in their power to keep it that way, but it's a matter of practice and legalized favoritism, it doesn't stem from the Constitution.


So, to summarize, there a very few people outside of the Democrats and Republicans, in the  federal or state government. So very few are qualified to become president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 06, 2015, 05:27:32 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html)

"Washington (CNN)—The wait is over.

Fox News said Tuesday that Republican presidential candidates Donald [Sleezebag], Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Chris Christie and John Kasich will all appear on the dais Thursday for the first prime-time debate of the primary season.

The seven other major declared candidates -- Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Jim Gilmore -- will appear at a debate earlier Thursday evening.
"


*shudder* Carly Fiorina is back on the political scene after her failed attempt at winning a U.S. Senate seat of California in 2010.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 06, 2015, 01:47:32 PM
Alright BU, today's the big day! 

Our little bet might even be enough to make me pay attention... 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2015, 01:48:24 PM
...Now I have to review the terms we agreed on...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 06, 2015, 03:36:42 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/04/politics/fox-debate-cleveland-announcement/index.html)

"Washington (CNN)—The wait is over.

Fox News said Tuesday that Republican presidential candidates Donald [Sleezebag], Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Chris Christie and John Kasich will all appear on the dais Thursday for the first prime-time debate of the primary season.

The seven other major declared candidates -- Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Bobby Jindal, Carly Fiorina, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Jim Gilmore -- will appear at a debate earlier Thursday evening.
"


*shudder* Carly Fiorina is back on the political scene after her failed attempt at winning a U.S. Senate seat of California in 2010.


Now there's someone with a proven track record as an executive.

(A proven track record of failure, that is.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 07, 2015, 04:06:22 AM
Well, I was so fascinated with the debate I went and bought a skirt....

How was it? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2015, 04:08:51 AM
I cared so much that I spent the time hunched forward squinting while I edited 8pt. .css code.  Rusty will tell us.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 07, 2015, 04:09:53 AM
I cared so much that I spent the time hunched forward squinting while I edited 8pt. .css code.  Rusty will tell us.
;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 07, 2015, 04:14:04 AM
I see [Sleezebag] gets the lead sound bite on my evening news...

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 07, 2015, 04:16:22 AM
I see [Sleezebag] gets the lead sound bite on my evening news...
This does not come as that great of a surprise since Donald [Sleezebag] is currently the leading candiate for the GOP party. . .
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2015, 04:43:20 AM
...Who said the most outrageous thing.

-He'd had to, even if he woke up an adult this morning; it's his niche now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2015, 06:37:09 AM
We just finished watching the DVR version of the debate. Didn't see any news or commentary.

They gave [Sleezebag] the most pointed questions, and also the most talking time. So however you look at it, it wasn't fair.

I shouldn't have been surprised that the two guys that annoyed me the most were from the city of New York and the state of New Jersey. Something to do with their humility and open-mindedness, I guess.

My wife declared that if [Sleezebag] is the nominee she will skip the presidential election for the first time in her life.

Rand Paul ( no secret, I wish his Dad were president ) spoke a lot of truth
( again, I admit my bias ) , but failed when it came to looking presidential. He came across as a smirking jerk. Well, maybe that's honest on his part.
I'd call him a loser, but he may already be at his support floor, and may not fade much.

Sadly, it seemed to me like he's the only guy that believes that it's up to Congress to declare war. Many of the other's sounded like it's the president's prerogative to start one.

Doctor Ben Carson, the Johns Hopkins neurosurgeon,  came across as the intelligent fellow he must surely be, and very likeable. I'd consider him "the winner," in that I think he'll get the most "bounce" in the polls relative to his previous showing.

All of the governors made their own records sound good. As a whole they seemed better qualified than the rest of the field, being better politicians and leaders.

Speaking of governors, mine, Scott Walker, got to make his first impression. Regardless of everything else he said about government , he made it clear that he was an unqualified pro-lifer, ( unqualified means that he doesn't make exceptions for abortions, even to save the life of the mother.)  and a firm Baptist.

I can't help but think that he has alienated a lot of women, even in his own party. Sure, he may get support from the Christian activists in the primaries and Iowa caucus, but I think his life-long presidential ambition just became long term unobtainable, and he doesn't even know it.  He's become the biggest loser.

There's Huckabee, the only veteran presidential candidate, looking very polished and Christian, but not really giving credible answers.

There's Christie, who thinks The Patriot Act is quite underpowered. I would have said curse words to him had I shared the stage.

There's Jeb Bush, who seems to have more charisma than his dad and brains than his brother, and knows that many are averse to extending the Bush dynasty, but accepts that the bar is set higher for him and pledges to earn our confidence.

Finally, we have Kasich of Ohio, a purple state that decides presidential elections. He barely qualified for the debate. He lacks charisma. But his claims about his record were impressive, he has solid credentials as a fiscal conservative, and he seems like an otherwise moderate and reasonable  fellow, who seems more interested in trying to make the Affordable Care Act work for the poor in his state than repealing it. A guy who opposed gay marriage, but now accepts it as the law of the land and recently attended a wedding. Maybe a guy who can govern a divided state can govern a divided country, because he recognizes that he serves everyone.

He probably stands no chance in the primaries, but I'm thinking he'd make the best president, all candidates and parties considered.

I guess he's now my preference.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Zoid on August 07, 2015, 12:08:08 PM
Why settle for the lesser evil?

Quote
Cthulhu Announces He’s Running For President, Promises To Eliminate ISIS By Destroying Reality
ZACK ZAGRANIS JULY 12, 2015


Cthulhu emerged from the black depths of the Pacific Ocean and proceeded to answer questions about hot button issues such as gun control, Obamacare, and how to handle the growing threat of ISIS.

Though the aquatic deity’s presence drove most of the reporters insane, a few were able to stave off the madness long enough to report that Cthulhu’s plan to handle ISIS involves unraveling the very fabric of reality. “Now that’s how you handle terrorists!” said FOX News commentator Bill O’ Reilly who was covering the conference by satellite. “Just wipe ’em all out of exist-” O’Reilly started to continue before the otherworldly timber of Cthulhu’s voice caused his head to burst like a rotten melon hitting pavement.

CNN’s Anderson Cooper managed to ask the ancient entity what his thoughts were on health care before Cthulhu’s answer—he favors a universal system where everyone dies—caused him to melt into a puddle of viscous fluid.

Cthulhu pleased conservatives and liberals alike when he promised to end both abortions and gun related casualties by turning everyone on Earth into pulpy heaps of charred flesh and sinew. The Great Cthulhu was oddly silent on the subjects of marriage equality and race relations, however it can be assumed that Cthulhu’s plans to annihilate all life in the universe is on an equal opportunity basis.

Despite heavy casualties, the Cult Of Cthulhu considers the press conference a success and plans are underway for Cthulhu to embark on a national speaking tour starting with New Hampshire. Many cities in the Granite State have begun evacuating their citizens in preparation.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 07, 2015, 02:42:04 PM

I guess he's now my preference.


Think he won over hEt, too. 

Him and the doctor. 

That said, this first primary, especially, let's face it, is about getting sound bites that the masses hear ad nauseum on their drive to work. 

[Sleezebag] had no shortage of sound bites, and they can be played to either his strength or detriment.  NPR this morning mostly panning him, while the local news affiliate chopping up bits to make him sound stronger. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2015, 02:50:24 PM
No surprises there.

It's beginning to sound like I lost...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 07, 2015, 03:36:20 PM
It's going to take time to whittle down [Sleezebag]. 

His negatives are too well known for harping on them to work, but people hate politicians THAT MUCH.  Thus far the "campaign" has played PERFECTLY to that, too.  YOU CAN'T GO NEGATIVE ON [Sleezebag].  Why? BECAUSE he's so polarizing.  Thus far, all the candidates that have attacked him have targetted his well known negatives, which just plays fully into his hands because he has a ready made "that's because I'm not a politician/I'm not politically correct/ the system is broken" answer, and IT WORKS. 

Last night, questions directed his way were PURPOSELY focused on the apparent negatives he has.  And, while I THINK this is attempting to be done to make the public wake up to the fact he has no chance in hell on a national stage, it's NOT how to tackle him in the primaries when the average Joe is going on name recognition and sound bites. 

Maybe I'm just THAT pessimistic in thinking the public is inherently stupid, but that's my stance. 

You want to take down [Sleezebag], you gotta stump him on the actual issues that he is in no way ready to handle.  One of the smartest things Kasich did that I saw (before I took Talia shopping for a skirt) was to NOT dismiss [Sleezebag] out of hand over the boarder issues like other candidates did (or attack him on it, that's a losing proposition), but rather acknowledge [Sleezebag] has struck a chord, but there are other solutions than just his sound bite answers. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 07, 2015, 04:37:15 PM
So, instead of the 'Yes we can!' motto last time, the mainstay will be 'No I'm not!' this time? ;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2015, 04:39:25 PM
Eh, this is clown college - the Democrats will have a more interesting primary season...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 07, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
So, instead of the 'Yes we can!' motto last time, the mainstay will be 'No I'm not!' this time? ;lol

If they really hit that hard, it MIGHT actually work.  ESPECIALLY against Clinton, who is as close to the embodiment of a sleasy career politician as you can get.  (and don't get me wrong, I'm not totally against a sleasy politician.  Sometimes that's what you need)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 07, 2015, 07:52:10 PM
If they really hit that hard, it MIGHT actually work.  ESPECIALLY against Clinton, who is as close to the embodiment of a sleasy career politician as you can get.  (and don't get me wrong, I'm not totally against a sleasy politician.  Sometimes that's what you need)

I can imagine.
Of course, it's far out of my bailiwick. It's just that from my point of view (and probably quite a number of the good ol' continent politicians) the 'devil you know' sounds more comfortable then a new powerful person on the other side of the Atlantic callin' in 'favors'.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2015, 10:22:44 PM
No surprises there.

It's beginning to sound like I lost...

Maybe so. We'll see.

Interesting Uno analysis. You know how I said that Crankypants Rand Paul has a floor level of support? Well, [Sleezebag] has a floor level as Mr. Maverick. What % that is, I don't know.

Walker and Bush were the only ones in striking distance, and I don't know if they will get much traction from this.  I do think that this appearance was the best version of Jeb I've ever seen.

There's still the matter of how [Sleezebag]'s not being a team player as far as the Republicans are concerned will play out. If I were a party activist,  [Sleezebag]'s insinuation- "Nominate me, or I'll throw the election to Hillary" would urine me off!

Will people see [Sleezebag] as an unprincipled egocentric opportunist autocrat that would become an annoying Chief Executive? I don't know.

For the record, I admire [Sleezebag] for his ability as a deal-maker.

It remains to be seen what the Republican rank and file think. Bush the Old Standby?
Walker the Wonder Boy? We're Chumps for [Sleezebag]? I don't think like they do, so I don't know. As best I can remember the mindset, and the reigning obliviousness to women, I'd go with the "Walker is the second coming of St. Ronald Reagan" prediction.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2015, 12:00:24 AM
Interesting Uno analysis.


I know jack about politics, but I have a decent thermometer on the general public.  Getting the general public to answer a poll question is a lot easier than getting them to vote, though. 

I think the most telling anecdotal thing I can say is that the FedEx delivery guy on at work is a recent immigrant with a remaining thick Mexican accent, and LOVES [Sleezebag].  Absolutely ADORES him, told everyone watching the debate yesterday, and was THRILLED today.  The promise of jobs and the "I'm not a politician" far outweighs any negatives in his eyes. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2015, 01:20:38 PM
So......guess [Sleezebag] opened his big mouth last night?  (haven't actually heard what he said) 

Looks like the party is now stonewalling him. 

Is it enough to kill an independent run?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2015, 01:36:04 PM
Nothing, just nothing in this world, will stop the chimpo from doing whatever's the lowest-class, douchiest, most self-severing thing he can think of.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
I see this headline on Facebook:

Donald [Sleezebag]: Conservative Erick Erickson Disinvites US Presidential Candidate From Event

-Something about not supporting the party from the debate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Actually it's about something he said in an interview yesterday about the female moderator being hormonal during the debate.  I haven't seen the actual quote, but that's the gist.  (NPR this morning said it was too offensive to play the sound bite)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2015, 02:32:24 PM
Oh.  Typical.

He's supposed to be furious at Megan Kelly because the Murdoch machine ain't exactly behind him and she's a good soldier.

-When you're too sleazy for Rupert Murdoch, you do have a problem.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: gwillybj on August 08, 2015, 04:09:43 PM
Yeah it was nasty and un-called for. No matter how frustrated you are, you don't say stuff like that as a potential candidate and expect to win any points from any demographic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2015, 04:11:14 PM
Gingritch has more class.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2015, 04:31:08 PM
There's still a portion of the public that responds to that.  We get to see how big that portion is now.


Though the media is universally vilifying now. That can shape the masses in a hurry.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2015, 05:29:37 PM
When you've lost Murdoch so badly his mouthpiece goes after you in the first debate, you've lost, on the right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 08, 2015, 05:57:51 PM
[Sleezebag] is so far ahead of the lame cuckservative crowd he'll come ahead as the front runner no matter what.
[Sleezebag] is just saying what millions of people in this country are thinking. That we don't want to have our country
turned into Mexico north or have a bunch of rhino republicans cheering the process along.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2015, 12:32:25 AM
FOX is dead-set against him, man.  Think about that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 09, 2015, 05:04:17 AM
FOX is dead-set against him, man.  Think about that.

When you've lost Murdoch so badly his mouthpiece goes after you in the first debate, you've lost, on the right.

Uhh. Yeah.

This is highly irregular, and profound.

*******************************************
When the Shrew is on my tv, interrupting my favorite program because she's CIC and can do whatever she wants, I will be sure to thank the Donald.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 09, 2015, 06:17:12 AM
Is it just me, or is anybody else reminded of Jim Bakker when they see Cruz?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 09, 2015, 02:37:14 PM
Quote
FOX is dead-set against him, man.  Think about that.

That should tell people something.

Quote
Though the media is universally vilifying now. That can shape the masses in a hurry.
That should also tell people something. When the entire media says one thing I think the opposite is probably true.
Many people are starting to wake up to the lying media. For that matter they are waking up to how controlled the political
process is. Thats the real reason [Sleezebag] has any success. He's viewed as an outsider in a two party echo-chamber.
Basically the Republican base is so disgusted with the Republican cuckservatives that they are switching to [Sleezebag].
We might see a third party out of this.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
That would be the Perot party, which [Sleezebag] was also involved in, and which came to nothing, not least because the guy spearheading didn't display a lot of interest in anything beyond his own candidacy.  [Sleezebag] at the top would be even worse.

It's possible, God help us, to agree with [Sleezebag]'s positions and still believe he's a horrible [feminine washing] decent people should have nothing to do with, let alone vote for.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 09, 2015, 02:49:48 PM
[That would be the Perot party, which [Sleezebag] was also involved in, and which came to nothing, not least because the guy spearheading didn't display a lot of interest in anything beyond his own candidacy.  [Sleezebag] at the top would be even worse.

It's possible, God help us, to agree with [Sleezebag]'s positions and still believe he's a horrible [feminine washing]decent people should have nothing to do with, ]


I'm uncertain I care who wins honestly. But I want to see the Republican party filled with cuckservative Rhino traitors
destroyed and a real conservative party put in its place. [Sleezebag] is an unrepentant Alpha male and its the reason he's hated so much
and he might be the one to finally break the two party system.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: PLATO on August 09, 2015, 06:20:32 PM

It's possible, God help us, to agree with [Sleezebag]'s positions and still believe he's a horrible [feminine washing]decent people should have nothing to do with, let alone vote for.

I think this will sum up [Sleezebag]'s candidacy quite well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2015, 03:16:47 AM
I'm uncertain I care who wins honestly. But I want to see the Republican party filled with cuckservative Rhino traitors
destroyed and a real conservative party put in its place. [Sleezebag] is an unrepentant Alpha male and its the reason he's hated so much
and he might be the one to finally break the two party system.

Who else, as examples, would you see in this new Real Conservative party?

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 10, 2015, 06:15:29 AM
Quote
Who else, as examples, would you see in this new Real Conservative party?
Someone thats actually conservative would be nice. Someone that doesn't
get on his knees and bow and scrape every time some minority says they are offended
would be nice too.

Quote
Everyone conservative pundit is right: [Sleezebag] is not a "real conservative." He doesn't have much in the way of concrete policy positions. He's donated heavily to Democrats. His position on immigration seems to be, "Build a wall, kick them all out, then let them back in." In my opinion, he'd be a lousy President. But he doesn't bow and scrape. And Republican voters are looking at the looming wreckage of the country, and they've had it with bowing and scraping.

The base doesn't want someone to apologize to liberals for not being feminist enough. They want someone to attack our accusers. And every single time [Sleezebag] has been attacked from the left he responds with verbal sucker-punches. At any given point, he always seems about a muscle spasm away from grabbing his attacker by the hair and pounding his face into the table until it's a mess of blood, teeth, and tears. This is like a breath of fresh air to everyone who has watched John Boehner weep and mince about for the last few years. [Sleezebag] did all but call Megyn Kelly a hysterical [complaint or disagreeable woman] who needs to go back to the kitchen. That made him stronger. Attacking him for offending the sacred precepts of feminism doesn't hurt him because that's what we want.

In other words, we don't want someone with all of his policy ducks laid in a row so much as we just want someone to punch back twice as hard. At this point, the only way for any other candidate to get on [Sleezebag]'s level is to call Jon Stewart a smug, self-righteous, dishonest sonofabitch on live TV to his face.

This is an excerpt form an article I found. It really sums up Trumps popularity in a nutshell.
Basically it boils down to he has a spine and testosterone.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 10, 2015, 08:12:51 PM
And someone like that should have access to nuclear weapons? ;eek
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2015, 08:21:09 PM
No.

Schooling von is, obviously, not going to happen overnight.  I used to be like him, and finding a better balance has taken me the rest of my life.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2015, 09:19:56 PM
Okay, that was actually informative.

So the idea that nobody else is talking about immigration comes from people who don't trust politicians or the media, and don't pay much attention to either. There's an internal logic to that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2015, 10:08:12 PM
I found this in my SPAM folder. Rand sends me appeals for money. I think it's because I once donated to his father's campaign.





"Don't Fall for a Fake Conservative
Sen. Rand Paul, August 10, 2015

 I ran for office because I was tired of being misled by Republicans who promised conservative government and gave us bank bailouts and more debt. The Wall Street bankers got richer and the American taxpayer got poorer.

 The Tea Party erupted over dissatisfaction with false conservatives. It amazes me that anyone in the Tea Party movement could possibly consider Clinton/Reid/Pelosi supporter Donald [Sleezebag] for President.

 I honestly have no idea what Mr. [Sleezebag]'s real philosophy is. He was liberal before he was conservative, and has openly professed for decades that his views are those of a Democrat.

 In 1990, he said if he ever ran for office, he'd do better as a Democrat. He became an independent briefly in 1999 before he switched back to registering as a Democrat. In 2004, he identified more of his beliefs as those of a Democrat, especially on economic policy, stating on CNN that, "it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans." He only registered as a Republican in 2009 before dropping the party again in 2011, only to re-register in 2012.

 This is a guy who said in 1999 that he was a strong supporter of the United Nations. He was for partial birth abortion before he was against it. He lavished praise on the bank bailouts. He was for Obamacare before he was against it and has said he's "liberal on health care."

 In the debate, I reminded [Sleezebag] that conservatives in the GOP have spent decades opposing a single-payer system like the socialized medicine of Canada and England. He responded that I hadn't heard his answer. The problem is, I had heard his answer and, like many of his answers, it made absolutely no sense. What I heard was that he was once for a single-payer system-today, he's against Obamacare but still kind of likes the concept of single-payer and isn't sure it works.

 No conservative in America supports a single-payer government-run healthcare system, and yet around 25 percent of Republicans seem to favor [Sleezebag]. How can this be possible? How can a quarter of the GOP support a guy who was a Republican, then an Independent, then a Democrat, and then a Republican again?

 Are conservatives really willing to gamble about what Donald [Sleezebag] really believes in?

 It is refreshing to hear someone speak truth to power, to transcend Washington-speak, and cut through the staidness of our politically correct world but not when it is all blather, non-sequitur, and self-aggrandizing bombast.

 Donald [Sleezebag] is showing he isn't suited to lead the country, and I think we all need to discuss why.

 Frankly, it sounds too much like he is someone used to bullying to get his way. What do you do to a bully? You stand up to him. That's what I did on the debate stage, and I was the only one.

 The only one to tell Donald [Sleezebag] that if he is willing to possibly give the election to Hillary, he shouldn't be on the stage. That should be our first and uniting principle.

 We don't need a bully, and we don't need another President who thinks he is King. We certainly don't need someone who has driven his companies into bankruptcy four times yet smugly tells us he uses our nation's Chapter 11 laws to his own personal advantage. All well and good for him - but what of the creditors and vendors he defaulted on?

 Voters are hungry for a plain-spoken critique of Washington. But I'm unsure how credible that voice is when it comes from the consummate insider, a man who buys and sells politicians like he does Lamborghinis.

 [Sleezebag] has paid over 1.5 million dollars to politicians from both sides of the aisle, from Harry Reid to Rahm Emanuel to Jeb Bush. The majority of his donations were to Democrats until a few years ago when he began thinking more seriously of making a play for the Republican nomination.

 (For the record, Donald [Sleezebag] has never donated to any of my political campaigns, perhaps because he knows I can't be bought. He has donated to an eye institute that sponsored the medical mission I took to Guatemala where the funding was directly spent on our surgical work restoring sight to over 200 men and women.)

 He has, however, put a significant down payment on Hillary Clinton-at least a $100,000 investment in the Clinton "Foundation" in addition to repeated donations to her campaigns-and acknowledges he spoke to Bill Clinton before he decided to pursue the Republican nomination. What kind of access was he purchasing?

 I asked him in the debate why he's hedging his bets. If he doesn't win the GOP nomination will he support Clinton? Will he run as a third party candidate? Ross Perot gave us Bill Clinton. Will [Sleezebag] give us Hillary Clinton?

 Why give so much money to both sides?

 That's the problem with the system. Big Government and Big Business get in bed together, and the ordinary taxpayer ends up with the short end of the stick while our country is driven deeper into debt.

 I for one don't think you should run for President if you believe what [Sleezebag] says about money in politics: "When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do."

 Isn't this buying and selling what's wrong with Washington?

 Bill Clinton is under fire for accepting donations and high speaking fees from foreign governments while Hillary served as Secretary of State. I think it's despicable that politicians like Hillary sell access. But isn't it equally despicable for people like [Sleezebag] to buy access?

 It makes me sad to think that Tea Party awakening could be hijacked or hoodwinked by a guy who supported the bank bailouts, supported Obamacare, and continues to support the Clintons.

 I was there at the first Tea Party in 2007 and I'll be damned if I'm going to stand passively by and watch the movement destroyed by a fake conservative. I will stand up to anyone, Republican or Democrat, who tries to use government as their own personal piggy bank and I won't be bought or sold.

 I will run this race on issues important to the American people. Unlike [Sleezebag], I have serious, specific proposals for the largest tax cut in American history and a five-year balanced budget. I offer real solutions to defeat the Washington Machine like ending corporate welfare, term limits and forcing Congress to read the bills.

 We owe the American people substantive answers like that, not bluster and bombast. I plan to stand up to anyone who doesn't have the temperament or ideas to be President. Maybe it's time for the GOP voters to tell Mr. [Sleezebag] he's fired so we can find a serious candidate who will bring real change."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2015, 10:52:56 PM
I enjoyed that.

-Rusty, I should tell you that I think Rand is George Jr. to his dad's Real George Bush...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2015, 11:11:53 PM
I enjoyed that.

-Rusty, I should tell you that I think Rand is George Jr. to his dad's Real George Bush...

Both Elders were selfless patriots compared to the egos of the sons. Dr.Rand is nobody's dummy, but he doesn't have that Bush touch of making everybody be your friend.

I like having Rand around to raise questions, especially when it comes to the Constitution that all of the elected officials are sworn to preserve, protect, and defend.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 10, 2015, 11:28:15 PM
Quote
Schooling von is, obviously, not going to happen overnight

Heh. Thats funny I'm thinking the same thing about most of the people here.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2015, 11:32:10 PM
...I have a lot of admiration/respect for Dr. Paul, for all that I think he's a crank and usually wrong.  He had the integrity and political courage to stand up against the 2nd Oil Crusade and the corporate police state fascism when it was VERY unpopular to do so - something I will always also admire Dennis Kucinich and Keith Olbermann (two fellows, in descending order, I also have reservations about) for doing.  -I know of NO ONE else in those years on their level of celebrity and power regularly shouting "NO!" as the ignorant majority of us were marching in lockstep into a Nazi hell, brandishing little flags tied to our car antennas.  Free beer for those gentlemen -and man-child Olbermann- for life, I say.

Rand strikes me as the answer to the question "I LOVE Ron Paul's fringe status and unworkable political philosophy - but can I have a populist version w/o all the honesty and guts?  Not quite as bright a plus. ;b;"

I know you're Libertarian, Rust, and he probably is as close as you're going to get in our lifetime, but lil' Rand strikes me as just a Reagan Republican occasionally throwing on Daddy's robes and claiming to be Jedi Grand Master when he's really only a common Sith.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2015, 03:41:22 AM
I know you're Libertarian, Rust, and he probably is as close as you're going to get in our lifetime, but lil' Rand strikes me as just a Reagan Republican occasionally throwing on Daddy's robes and claiming to be Jedi Grand Master when he's really only a common Sith.

HA! HA! I suppose he is as close as I'm likely to get. Well, I do enjoy hearing him say- 
* If it were necessary to go to war he would ask Congress for a Declaration.
* Congress should be required to read a bill before voting on it.
* The Federal Reserve should be audited.
* End Corporate welfare.


Gotta share this, because it ties into some things we've spoken about before-


"I believe that every American has a constitutionally guaranteed right to privacy which must be protected. Simply put, the phone records of law-abiding Americans are none of the government's business!

If the government has probable cause that an individual is a criminal or suspected terrorist, than they must first go to a judge and obtain a warrant as required by the Fourth Amendment. Mr. Verizon, Mr. Sprint, and Mr. AT&T are not individuals and "general warrants" which authorize this dragnet surveillance on millions of Americans violate the very intent of the Fourth Amendment. Simply owning a cell-phone does not mean you forfeit your constitutional rights. From your phone records, the government can discern the most intimate details of your life--whether you smoke, whether you gamble, what books you read, what magazines you read, whether you see a psychiatrist, or what medications you take. This domestic NSA spying is simply not acceptable in a free society.

As President of the United States, I will immediately end the NSA's illegal bulk data collection and domestic spying programs and protect the Fourth Amendment rights of all Americans. We must remember that our rights are unlimited, unenumerated, and given to us by God. Your rights are who you are, your rights are what you are, your rights are in your DNA – and the government can get over it."


None of that reminds me of a Reagan Republican, but I see where you are coming from. I've got plenty of problems with him on issues.

Maybe I'll post about a couple of the other candidates for a change of pace.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2015, 03:53:17 AM
I think I'll vote for a third party candidate.

Perhaps you'll see [Sleezebag] there, too!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 11, 2015, 03:57:56 AM
Quote
Schooling von is, obviously, not going to happen overnight

Heh. Thats funny I'm thinking the same thing about most of the people here.
If I am reading the context behind this post correctly, than vonbach is calling most of us undereducated   ;no.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 11, 2015, 04:07:04 AM
Quote
Schooling von is, obviously, not going to happen overnight

Heh. Thats funny I'm thinking the same thing about most of the people here.
If I am reading the context behind this post correctly, than Vonboch is calling most of us undereducated   ;no.
He's calling us hopelessly naïve - I should think he's educated enough to know educated when he sees it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 11, 2015, 09:49:18 PM
Quote
He's calling us hopelessly naïve - I should think he's educated enough to know educated when he sees it.

Correct. As far as education goes have you heard the term garbage in garbage out?
Its a reference to computers but it works with people too. Our universities are so
hopelessly PC and openly marxist that they are worthless.

As far as [Sleezebag] goes I don't like him. If he shuts the borders down and throws the illegals back over the border
its a start. Buts its not even about him winning. Its about making all these pathetic whining cuckservatives
traitors look like just what they are to the Republican base.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 11, 2015, 11:04:57 PM
cuckservatives
Time to stop using this term.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2015, 11:08:04 PM
Dr. BEN CARSON

He seems to have impressed a lot of people at the debate, me included. His website is nice to look at, but kind of shallow on issues. Before I address that, let me say that he has a rather impressive resume and life story. How many people have movies made about them while they are still alive?  Or hold 67 honorary doctorate degrees?

https://www.bencarson.com/meet-ben/ (https://www.bencarson.com/meet-ben/)

As for the issues, he cites 10 topics-

*Protecting Innocent Life
*Balanced Budget Amendment
*Education
*Keep Gitmo Open
*Health Care
*Keep Faith in Our Society
*Russia and Lessons Learned
*Protect the Second Amendment
*Stand by Israel, Our Bulwark Middle East Ally
*The American People Deserve a Better Tax Code

Keep Gitmo Open ( the details )
"We must keep our detention facility at Gitmo open.
Radical terrorists captured in countries all over the world must be detained safely while awaiting trial by military commission. Gitmo is, by far, the single best facility for this dangerous job.

Keeping Gitmo open is a critical element in our never-ending efforts to keep the American people safe from another cataclysmic terrorist attack"



Granted, any Republican who doesn't kiss the rings of Israel and the NRA is going to get a target on their back when they poll in double digits. Just once I would like to hear a man of faith running for office say something like Israel is under the protection of The Lord God Almighty, and it is beyond America's ability to add to that. [/END TANGENT]




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 12, 2015, 01:20:12 AM
*Gov. Rick Perry stopped paying his office people in some states, according to NBC nightly news.
Hopefully he'll face facts and endorse somebody soon, rather than wither until he passes away quietly in the night.

* I'm still waiting for the post-debate  FOX poll as regards the wager.

* Interestingly, among Iowans who watched the debate, [Sleezebag] has fallen to even with Walker. Walker is strong there because he's a next door neighbor. If that were a national poll, I'd say [Sleezebag] lost his lead, therefore he lost big.

* [Sleezebag] and his misogynistic comments play right into the Democratic propaganda meme "The War on Women". The lack of condemnation on the part of Republicans, and the polls that say more Republicans agree with [Sleezebag] about it all being "political correctness" than disagree with his remarks, don't bode well for Republican White House aspirations. Maybe they haven't noticed, but voting age women outnumber voting age men, and that whole "rape pregnancies are a gift from God" reasoning didn't work last time.  I guess they would rather flip off the women than sit in the White House. Is that what you call standing on principal, or is it more cutting off your nose to spite your face?

* Today I was contemplating personal background with regard to political qualification, particularly marriage. I was thinking that marriage was a pretty good test of conflict resolution skills. Compromise, consensus building, taking turns ( it's called quid pro quo in politics ), etc. It's also a test of character- honesty, keeping promises, fairness, team work, diligence, etc.  I contemplated a few politicians and then I considered [Sleezebag], who has been twice divorced. That says to me that in his case, two people have essentially said that once they got to know the guy, they wouldn't stay married to him for a billion dollars.

What does that say about his character and conflict resolution skills?



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 12, 2015, 01:52:58 AM
The winners of last Thursday night’s debate were Kasich, Christie, and Rubio, in that order. All managed to look and sound as if they belonged on that stage. The one to benefit most was Kasich, who otherwise would never have escaped obscurity. The irony is that despite putting in a terrific performance that affirms the excellence of whatever consultants or advisers prepped them for the evening, none of that will matter because none of them have deep enough pockets. Christie and Kasich are incapable of attracting enough support from the Tea Party wing, nevermind Christie’s Bridgegate liability and Kasich’s tendency to harangue bundlers.

Some are calling Carson a winner for certain statements that he made, but, like Huckabee, he simply put in a respectable showing, all things considered. Carson’s favorable may have increased, but the number of people prepared to vote for him will remain very low overall. Huckabee won’t be able to outrun his own conservatism. Ted Cruz is as awkward as Bush, with none of the deep-pocketed support.

The clear losers of the debate were Donald [Sleezebag] and Rand Paul. Even if one believes that Fox News was gunning for [Sleezebag] – and I don’t think the questions posed to him were especially unfair – he still fumbled easy returns. Rather than a trap, the opening question of the night is better seen as a set-up. [Sleezebag] should have been coached by his advisers to state the obvious: nobody has any business endorsing a candidate sight-unseen, and if you expect him to back an unnamed candidate just because of their party label, well, that’s the problem right there! The winning reply to the question on bankruptcy law was less obvious, but I’ve heard it before: it should be the business of every American to know the law, and to act accordingly. In short, “I’m not rich because I break the law – I’m rich because I know the law.” Instead, he whined about his creditors, as if their greed is somehow less objectionable than theirs’.

The other big loser? Rand Paul. He managed to look like the  fringe candidate he is.

[Sleezebag]’s job was to look presidential. He needed to play the part of the adult in the room. Instead, he behaved like the narcissistic bully his critics already knew him to be. He left with a very minor bump, but ultimately isn’t going to be able to go the distance because of his very high negatives.

[Sleezebag]’s appeal is simple. His supporters ignore, or even defend, his offensive behavior because they feel an affinity toward him. The far right wing of the Republican Party is now so tired and resentful of being told that their social viewpoint – their Truth -- is “offensive” that they mistake Donald [Sleezebag] for a truth-teller because he is subject to the same condemnations. [Sleezebag] also appeals to all those who, in Peter Beinart’s words, mistake politics for emotional vindication. They’ve concluded that what the Obama administration lacks is heart. This is why they know that the Secretary of State, although supported by dozens of aides and thousands of staff, was fleeced by the Iranians. [Sleezebag] has correctly been labeled the first “post-issues” candidate. His supporters want to hear and feel truth; they no longer trust when they are “told” truth.
[Sleezebag]’s selection of “policy” proposals is laughable, and he’s the only candidate without a platform on his campaign webpage. Build a wall along the border with Mexico? Okay. Who’s going to pay for it? [Sleezebag]’s supporters cite his experience building resort properties. Great. He knows how to close a real estate deal. Can he tell us what he is going to do where the terrain is unsuitable for a wall, as if often is on the southern border? How much money can we expect to spend manning the wall at a time of financial austerity? The Border Patrol has doubled in size in recent years, and there are still too few of them by far. Is he going to lay mines? What happens when the first child is blown up? Does he really expect his policy to survive the media circus?

Seize Iraqi oil wells, but insist that it wouldn’t mean occupation? That’s a pipe dream. The nation proved unwilling to go the distance in Iraq. The Surge was a tourniquet: it was tactically impressive, but ultimately failed to bring about the desired strategic objective, which was political reconciliation between Iraqis of different sectarian allegiances. Now, [Sleezebag] is going to reverse course and take us back to war? Give me a break.

We, the People, also have a nasty habit of conflating material riches with fitness to govern even though many smart, wealthy people are temperamentally unsuited to statecraft (I’m thinking of you, Steve Jobs) and also many wealthy people who inherited either all of their fortune or enough of it to get them started (that’s Donald).

Let me also talk a bit about the Iran deal. It’s not a “good” deal in the general sense of that term. We do come to the table from a place of weakness. We lost credibility when we failed to enforce our own red line in Syria. We lost credibility when we demonstrated that we weren’t willing to stick it out in Iraq. We lost credibility when we declined to punish Iran for killing our soldiers in Iraq. And we’ve lost leverage simply because we are facing severe cut-backs at home just to keep ourselves from going broke. We’re not as powerful as we used to be.

But that doesn’t mean that this deal isn’t preferable to a war of unspecified duration, without clear long-term objectives. I’m not morally or philosophically opposed to another war, but I do demand that somebody lay down a very clear plan, explaining what we ought to do if sabre rattling fails – which it had for the ten years prior to this deal. Do we bomb Iran’s nuclear infrastructure? Great. By some credible estimates, we could set them back years with a commitment of only 60 aircraft. But then what? Do we bomb on a regular schedule? What if Iran escalates by provoking Hezbollah into attacking Israel? What if they escalate by raising havoc in Syria or Iraq or Yemen? What if the Russians and Chinese sell them sophisticated air defense systems? What is the probability that once we bomb, we push moderates into committing fully to a bomb down the road? I want at least half-answers to those questions before I commit.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 12, 2015, 02:54:58 AM

[Sleezebag]’s job was to look presidential. He needed to play the part of the adult in the room. Instead, he behaved like the narcissistic bully his critics already knew him to be. He left with a very minor bump, but ultimately isn’t going to be able to go the distance because of his very high negatives.

[Sleezebag]’s appeal is simple. His supporters ignore, or even defend, his offensive behavior because they feel an affinity toward him. The far right wing of the Republican Party is now so tired and resentful of being told that their social viewpoint – their Truth -- is “offensive” that they mistake Donald [Sleezebag] for a truth-teller because he is subject to the same condemnations. [Sleezebag] also appeals to all those who, in Peter Beinart’s words, mistake politics for emotional vindication. They’ve concluded that what the Obama administration lacks is heart. This is why they know that the Secretary of State, although supported by dozens of aides and thousands of staff, was fleeced by the Iranians. [Sleezebag] has correctly been labeled the first “post-issues” candidate. His supporters want to hear and feel truth; they no longer trust when they are “told” truth.

We, the People, also have a nasty habit of conflating material riches with fitness to govern even though many smart, wealthy people are temperamentally unsuited to statecraft (I’m thinking of you, Steve Jobs) and also many wealthy people who inherited either all of their fortune or enough of it to get them started (that’s Donald).

I thought that was rather perceptive and eloquent.

Oh, I heard today that [Sleezebag] will make Mexico pay for the wall, but he didn't say how.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 12, 2015, 03:31:03 AM
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment very much!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 12, 2015, 12:01:34 PM
Quote
Quote
cuckservatives
Time to stop using this term.

Why its accurate. They look after every interest other than that of their base. Cuckoldry.

Quote
Build a wall along the border with Mexico? Okay. Who’s going to pay for it?
It would be cheaper than paying welfare to 30 million plus illegal immigrants. It wouldn't be that hard to build either. Make the Democrats pay for it they are the one trying to import a permanent Democratic voting bloc.

Quote
* [Sleezebag] and his misogynistic comments play right into the Democratic propaganda meme "The War on Women". The lack of condemnation on the part of Republicans, and the polls that say more Republicans agree with [Sleezebag] about it all being "political correctness" than disagree with his remarks, don't bode well for Republican White House aspirations.

Kowtowing to SJW bullies doesn't work. They're never satisfied and will never be satisfied with anything you do.
Caving in to bullies doesn't work it, just makes them bolder. [Sleezebag] is treating them the way they deserve.
You cant out leftist a leftist.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 12, 2015, 01:51:46 PM
This is political babytalk, von.  This is that failure of the Reagan revolution - simple answers for a complex world and insults substituting for discourse.  Contempt breeds contempt.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: BU Admin on August 12, 2015, 02:44:21 PM
Quote
Quote
cuckservatives
Time to stop using this term.

Why its accurate. They look after every interest other than that of their base. Cuckoldry.
1.) Because it's just annoying.
2.) It looks, at least superficially, like you're trying to say something dirty, and I'm trying to run and clean place.
3.) It couldn't be less true.
4.) It was the Cheney administration that looked after every interest other than that of their base.
5.) for reasons 1 and 2, the owner says so.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 12, 2015, 04:13:22 PM
Following on the ideological part, Senator Lindsey Graham (R. SC) closeted/in denial homosexual and definitely no RINO, said, IIRC, the day after the 2012 elections:  "We didn't loose this because we weren't hard-ass enough."

-Perhaps you think Mr. Warhawk-and-Limit-Free-Speech isn't "hard-ass enough", von...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 12, 2015, 07:27:02 PM
Quote
* [Sleezebag] and his misogynistic comments play right into the Democratic propaganda meme "The War on Women". The lack of condemnation on the part of Republicans, and the polls that say more Republicans agree with [Sleezebag] about it all being "political correctness" than disagree with his remarks, don't bode well for Republican White House aspirations.

Kowtowing to SJW bullies doesn't work. They're never satisfied and will never be satisfied with anything you do.
Caving in to bullies doesn't work it, just makes them bolder. [Sleezebag] is treating them the way they deserve.

You cant out leftist a leftist.

You can't please everyone, and some will never be satisfied, that's true.

Politics is about choices in the face of realities- such as demographics. Sometimes the choice is between standing on a principal and being left out in the cold (As a Libertarian I can respect and relate to that.) vs. bending/compromising/accommodating/horse trading to get elected and to get something done. A choice between whining and doing something about it.

As long as the Republicans embrace the "Cultural Conservatives" and their rhetoric, they will be trapped on the end of Pennsylvania Ave. that doesn't appoint Supreme Court Justices. That's also true.

I think treating others the way I wish to be treated is a better starting point than treating them the way I think they deserve to be treated. You know. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"- Jesus "As I would not be a slave, neither would I be a slaveholder."- Abraham Lincoln.
“You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.” -Dale Carnegie

Sometimes a term becomes an insult, so a new term takes it's place. A lot of times, it's much the same as a peer who tells you that they no longer wish to be known by their old nickname. After all, who would want to offend a stranger for no reason? You don't want them to do it to you. It's called tact.  Dismissing a predictable reaction offhand with the term "political correctness," rather than first seeking to understand the indignity or offering an apology doesn't win friends or influence people.

Me, I don't want the government to tell me who I can or can't marry, so I don't want it doing that to anybody else. I don't even want the camel to get it's nose in the tent.

Me, I don't want some celibate bachelor in a pipsqueak country dictating what kind of birth control I'm allowed to use. So, I often pray for God to guide the Pope, because so many people are counting on him to know what he is talking about.

Really, I don't think women want a bunch of old men dictating to them what kind of birth control they can or can't use, because it's a personal matter in which these fellows have no personal stake or experience.  Do you?




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 12, 2015, 11:50:14 PM
Quote
It would be cheaper than paying welfare to 30 million plus illegal immigrants. It wouldn't be that hard to build either. Make the Democrats pay for it they are the one trying to import a permanent Democratic voting bloc.

Illegal immigrants do not receive welfare to the extent you imply -- even when we think of welfare in very broad terms. In Texas, for example, illegal immigrants contribute more in labor value than they consume in services.

Yes, the wall would be incredibly hard to build. It would be hard enough to build only a network of sensors, let alone police them. Our southern border spans not only flat desert but mountains and watercourses that aren't susceptible to linear construction.

"Import a permanent Democratic voting bloc?" Leaving aside the fact that illegal immigrants can't vote (and no, voter fraud isn't a major aspect of elections in the U.S. today), by denigrating others as blind stooges of another political party, you're sending a very simple, straightforward, self-defeating message: "Choose the other guy. Me, I'm not interested in learning about you beyond caricature."

Quote
Kowtowing to SJW bullies doesn't work. They're never satisfied and will never be satisfied with anything you do.
Caving in to bullies doesn't work it, just makes them bolder. [Sleezebag] is treating them the way they deserve.
You cant out leftist a leftist.

It isn't "Social Justice Warfare" to ask [Sleezebag] to explain his ugly comments and penchant for bullying anymore than it is "Social Justice Warfare" to ask Hillary to turn over her private e-mail server.

[Sleezebag] wasn't being bullied. He was being challenged for statements that he'd made. [Sleezebag] is simply playing to a crowd that is already primed to see conspiracy in every corner. Alienation from power tends to breed unrealistic perceptions of that same power.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 12, 2015, 11:52:45 PM
SO vote for the billionaire!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 13, 2015, 11:40:32 AM
Quote
Illegal immigrants do not receive welfare to the extent you imply -- even when we think of welfare in very broad terms. In Texas, for example, illegal immigrants contribute more in labor value than they consume in services.
Of course Illegals get welfare. Thats why they come here. Illegals contribute nothing they are a massive drain on the system thats all. As far as building a wall its simple either a wall gets built and the illegals removed or the USA turns into South Africa.
 
Quote
"Import a permanent Democratic voting bloc?" Leaving aside the fact that illegal immigrants can't vote (and no, voter fraud isn't a major aspect of elections in the U.S. today), ."

Yes they do vote. Everyone knows this. As for vote fraud of course there is vote fraud. Just look at Ron Paul.
The Democrats steal votes its how they get elected.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2015, 12:54:07 PM
;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on August 13, 2015, 01:43:01 PM
I've never figured out how to make headway with individuals who seem repulsed by the mere idea that there are opinions different from their own. I gave up trying a long time go. Nowadays it just makes me sad.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 13, 2015, 02:02:12 PM
Of course Illegals get welfare. Thats why they come here. Illegals contribute nothing they are a massive drain on the system thats all.

Having spent a good 20 years of my life working alongside illegals, both at jobs that didn't require proof of legality, and at jobs that DID (thus some illicit activity was required for them to work there at all), I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.  Granted, my experience is anecdotal, but if half the people in the country legally had the same work ethic, there would be a lot less need for welfare.

That said, those were jobs that, THEORETICALLY, a legal citizen COULD have been doing.  Seen a lot of legal citizens quit those jobs... 

Quote
As far as building a wall its simple either a wall gets built and the illegals removed or the USA turns into South Africa.

Considering a good portion of the folks I worked with (~30%) actually came in off a boat on the left border, and a fair few out of the NORTH, I find the narrow "build a wall around Mexico" naive at best. 
 
Quote
Yes they do vote. Everyone knows this.

Again, anecdotally, my experience does not support this view.  They avoid any chance at getting caught, and at least here, you have to check your id to vote. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 13, 2015, 02:59:38 PM
Of course Illegals get welfare. Thats why they come here. Illegals contribute nothing they are a massive drain on the system thats all.

Having spent a good 20 years of my life working alongside illegals, both at jobs that didn't require proof of legality, and at jobs that DID (thus some illicit activity was required for them to work there at all), I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.  Granted, my experience is anecdotal, but if half the people in the country legally had the same work ethic, there would be a lot less need for welfare.

No, there'd probably be more need for welfare, since there aren't enough jobs to cover everybody working with such a high work ethic (and while the number of jobs isn't fixed, it changes slower than whatever's causing a change to it, so it'd come out to a net loss).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 13, 2015, 03:07:45 PM
The discharge of sweeping generalizations and sterotypes almost never accurately reflects the reality of an issue.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 13, 2015, 06:08:36 PM
The Democrats steal votes its how they get elected.

Well, I have said before that democrats steal some votes, but that's not how they get elected. They get elected because they are a majority. More people register with them and identify with them. It's the legacy of FDR and LBJ, ( old people vote ) and the efforts to be all-inclusive.

The vote stealing/fraud happens in places with one party rule- cities like Philadelphia, Chicago and Milwaukee. Where the voters, officials and watchdogs are all on the same side. There somebody can get over-zealous and somebody can look the other way, and the obvious winner can win by a negligibly wider margin.

Why negligibly? Because political science being what it is, any significant anomaly will be noticed, and protested/investigated. When you read the reports, they say the mischief was minimal or didn't materially affect the outcome. Wisconsin has photo ID laws now, so it's way harder to cheat. Pennsylvania adopted some photo ID laws, but I think they got struck down by the courts.

Sometimes I think the talk of  the Democrats cheating is just a way of motivating Republican voter turnout, because turnout is how Republicans win elections.

You can believe as much as the above as you care to. I'm not going to document anything. I started working in the Republican party as soon as I turned 18 and registered. I worked on the Perot campaign the first time, too.  I worked on the Walker recall petition verification.



 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 13, 2015, 11:06:02 PM
Quote
They get elected because they are a majority.

Lol. No they are not. the get elected because of he archaic gerrymandered electoral college system
that puts all the power in the cities and minority bloc votes. In other words welfare for votes. Outside of blue counties, mostly the big cities the entire country is Republican. Democracy works until people figure out that you can vote yourself money from the public funds. Its why were supposed to have a Republic.

Quote
Wisconsin has photo ID laws now, so it's way harder to cheat. Pennsylvania adopted some photo ID laws, but I think they got struck down by the courts.
Yes because if people actually had to show ID at polling places the Democrats would never win another election.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 13, 2015, 11:58:01 PM
;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 14, 2015, 01:40:42 AM
Quote from: “vonbach”
Of course Illegals get welfare. Thats why they come here. Illegals contribute nothing they are a massive drain on the system thats all. As far as building a wall its simple either a wall gets built and the illegals removed or the USA turns into South Africa.

No, they “come here” because of a lack of economic opportunity or personal security in their countries of origin.

According to a February 12, 2013 New York Times article by Adam Davidson titled, “Do Illegal Immigrants Actually Hurt the U.S. Economy?” illegal immigrants actually benefit the overall economy even though they impose various non-economic costs and have a negative economic impact on specific communities: “There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy.” In fact, the article explains that the benefit is quite significant.

Davidson further reports that while undocumented workers do draw about $1 billion per year from the Social Security Trust Fund, they contribute $15 billion in payroll taxes.

A CNN Money article by Maria Santana, “5 immigration myths debunked,” indicates that more than half of illegal immigrants actually do file and pay income tax and “contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits,” for which very few of them actually qualify.

Quote from: “vonbach”
Yes they do vote. Everyone knows this. As for vote fraud of course there is vote fraud. Just look at Ron Paul.
The Democrats steal votes its how they get elected.

I did a quick search online and came up with a Washington Post article from October 24, 2014 titled, “Could non-citizens decide the November election?” They credit their findings to a forthcoming article in the journal, “Electoral Studies.” I found that I was incorrect. Voter fraud is, in fact, a potentially major aspect of elections in the U.S. today.

I was surprised to learn that about 6.4% of non-citizens reported voting in presidential elections, while 2.2% reported voted in off-year elections. As a result of analyzing voting patterns (Democrats capture 80% of votes by non-citizens),  they concluded that, “[T]his participation was large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.”

In terms of whether or not Democrats always steal votes to get elected, no, there is no evidence of that of which I am aware. Again, you’d do better to ask why non-citizens who do vote choose to vote with the Democratic Party when, as I previously mentioned, they will not qualify for public benefits. (And it is much harder to get welfare than it is to vote.)

Vonbach, you continually describe people who vote Democratic or come from inner cities as “wanting things.” You say they have discovered that they can “vote themselves money.” Did it ever occur to you that for every paycheck in which you are forced to spend money on safety nets, you spend far more on “corporate welfare” – that is, subsidies to businesses? Has it also occurred to you that if you continually demonize people in inner cities as “takers,” they will never even begin to flirt with the idea of voting for you?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 14, 2015, 02:48:33 AM
Quote
They get elected because they are a majority.


Lol. No they are not. the get elected because of he archaic gerrymandered electoral college system
that puts all the power in the cities and minority bloc votes. In other words welfare for votes. Outside of blue counties, mostly the big cities the entire country is Republican. Democracy works until people figure out that you can vote yourself money from the public funds. Its why were supposed to have a Republic.

Quote
Wisconsin has photo ID laws now, so it's way harder to cheat. Pennsylvania adopted some photo ID laws, but I think they got struck down by the courts.

Yes because if people actually had to show ID at polling places the Democrats would never win another election.

I stand corrected. Democrats have a plurality rather than a majority, but that's effectively the same. Self described independents don't have well funded organizations to get themselves to the polls. They stay home. They make protest votes. They cancel each other out.

According to Pew Research - Nationally 32% self-identify with the Democrats and 23% with the Republicans... more favorable for the GOP than when I got active, but still a 3 to 2 ratio. In a national election were an 11 to 9 popular vote ratio is considered a landslide, that's significant. That suggests that Democrats should have a 2/3ds majority in the House.
http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/ (http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/)

*Gerrymandering favors the party in control of the state legislature in the year they make a redistricting plan. It can go either way, but only affects seats in the House of Representatives and state legislatures.

*The electoral college system was a compromise reached to gain the support for the Constitution from small states like Rhode Island, and rural states, so that populous states like Pennsylvania and Virginia wouldn't have all of the power. It is archaic, but it only affects presidential elections, and it gives the appearance of a mandate to the president.

As for the photo driver's licenses at polling places- I predict Wisconsin, where I now live and have lived for over 10 years, will remain competitive.  I'll try to keep everyone posted about the major elections here, so we'll know if Democrats can win an honest election.

Buncle, please hold me to this.



vonbach, please explain to me why if as you suggest that the country is predominately Republican, and the party's base is conservative, that you can't name a single conservative you'd like to see as president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 14, 2015, 03:25:48 AM
Quote
They get elected because they are a majority.

Lol. No they are not. the get elected because of he archaic gerrymandered electoral college system
that puts all the power in the cities and minority bloc votes.

That's funny.  The state republicans here gerrymandered the state districts last cycle to break up the district that was going democrat. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 14, 2015, 03:51:18 AM
What is new about politicians protecting the voter composition in a specific district? I hear this particular issue arises after almost every census in the last thirty or more years.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 14, 2015, 04:15:30 AM
What is new about politicians protecting the voter composition in a specific district? I hear this particular issue arises after almost every census in the last thirty or more years.

I just checked. The term was coined in 1812.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 14, 2015, 06:02:49 AM
I think much more important is the sense that the other party is full of greedy, evil bloodsuckers.

An enlightening paragraph from "The Coddling of the American Mind," a recent article in The Atlantic, a liberal news magazine:

Quote from: Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt
These same children grew up in a culture that was (and still is) becoming more politically polarized. Republicans and Democrats have never particularly liked each other, but survey data going back to the 1970s show that on average, their mutual dislike used to be surprisingly mild. Negative feelings have grown steadily stronger, however, particularly since the early 2000s. Political scientists call this process “affective partisan polarization,” and it is a very serious problem for any democracy. As each side increasingly demonizes the other, compromise becomes more difficult. A recent study shows that implicit or unconscious biases are now at least as strong across political parties as they are across races.

They point out that strong partisanship often blurs into self-righteousness. Combined with a news media that plays on fear to attract listeners and the "echo chamber" and "avalanche" effects of social media, you get a mutual hostility and crusading zeal that results in resistance to compromise. How do we break bread or split hairs with a monster?

It doesn't help that many Americans never learn how to critically evaluate their source material, meaning that they easily fall prey to spin doctors who have the imprimatur of legitimate social scientists. Hence you get people spinning elaborate theories about, say, the President's true intentions, based on what amounts to armchair psychology but reads like deep analysis.

Social media also disposes us to focus on sound and fury. Look at how many Americans agonize over the perception that Obama is unpatriotic, or those who insist that [Sleezebag] is offering credible leadership when really he is writing verbal checks that he can't possibly cash.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on August 14, 2015, 10:15:01 AM
Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?  I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?

Von comes across as a strong nationalist-fascist, as opposed to a number of you who come across as strong leftists.  Would I be right in that assumption?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 14, 2015, 01:35:59 PM
Quote
Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?
The Democrats and Republicans are two wings of the same political system.


Quote
I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?
What I was saying was [Sleezebag] essentially doesn't cave in to the left.
Thats my issue with the Republicans and people in general. They cave in instantly to leftist bullying tactics.
Basically they're scared of being called a racist. Its like a accusation of witchcraft in the middle ages.
There is no defense against it and you can lose you career over it at minimum. Its leftist bullying.
The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them and thats what [Sleezebag] is doing and its why he's
so popular.
Quote
Von comes across as a strong nationalist

Correct. I refuse to accept my country being turned into a third world country.
Basically I hold the same views that everyone in America took for granted a hundred years ago.
Especially when I wasn't even asked. Its genocide. Don't believe me look up the U.N
definition of the term.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 14, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?  I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?


Yes , I can see how it would be confusing. 
True, while I like my political spectrums to have more than one axis, generally speaking Democrats are considered left of Republicans, and right of Europeans.

On the Democrat spectrum, challenger Bernie Sanders is far left.

 Front runner Hilary Clinton... I don't trust a word she says... so I looked into her voting record as a senator for an objective measure.  By statistical analysis she was the 11th most liberal member of the 100 person senate during her years in that office. Obama was 23rd.

Some more numbers from the 110th Congress, to further help put things in perspective:


Most liberal Dem         1   Sanders     -0.523
                        11   CLINTON     -0.391
Median Dem              33   Biden       -0.331
Most conservative Dem   51   B. Nelson   -0.035
Most liberal Rep        52   Specter      0.061
Median Rep              76   McConnell    0.409
Most conservative Rep  101   Coburn       0.809


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate# (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate#)

As you can see, Vice President Joe Biden ( described as the Shrodinger's Cat  of the election, he is or isn't running ...we don't know) is a mainstream Democrat, to the right of Sanders and Clinton.


Donald [Sleezebag] is a billionaire celebrity real estate developer  who decided to run for president. He's known for deal-making, divorces, and firing people. He hasn't held political office and doesn't have a voting record. People form opinions on his beliefs  based upon his history of changing opinions, party registrations, and political donations.   He's from the city of New York, more liberal than the rest of the country.  It's hard to say for sure. He's not a far right Republican.



On the Republican side, with 17+ candidates, and most of them stuck in single digits,  it's probably best to allow the herd to thin and political positions to harden, but if you have a question about anybody, or issue in particular, I don't mind looking it up for you, Dale.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 14, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
Dale, I'm a social conservative who believes social conservative values are personal, not a matter for Caesar, and all over the place on actual political issues, leaning left more out of disgust for the shoddy behavior of the right than disagreement with small-government-and-fiscal-responsibility positions - the ones who actually believe -and practice- that are not wrong at all.

If the (deeply schizophrenic - the political conservatives belong in an opposite party more than the same as the teabaggers) Republican party actually stood for that, rather than all the socially conservative (bigoted, lowest-common-denominator, trash-talking/lying/hypocritical) garbage, I'd consider switching registration.

I'm satisfied that Sanders has paid his dues and proven that he Gets Things Done.  At this late date, the pragmatic CV concerns impress me more than his ideology (also, we haven't had a real Democrat in the White house since Jimmy Carter, and I'm sick of DINOs).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on August 14, 2015, 10:19:37 PM
Ahhhh okay, that's give a much better perspective of the relative placements of parties / contenders to our Australian counterparts.

Our two main parties are right of Europe, with Labor being left of Liberals.

The Greens represent a European left, whilst the Nationals are the Rural Conservatives and the Christian Conservatives and One Nation to the right of Nationals.

Tony Abbott (Prime Minister) is right wing Liberal with his Conservative Catholacism (which explains his anti-abortion anti-same-sex-marriage stances).  Bill Shorten (Labor leader and Opposition Leader) is left wing Labor coming from hard-line Unionism.

So for us normal people (75%) in the middle both leaders are repugnant for different reasons.  The other 25% are represented by the Greens, Nationals and other assorted left/right wing minors.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on August 15, 2015, 02:39:25 AM
Dale, the Democrats are the liberal party and the Republicans the conservative, although both would be positioned to the right of virtually any European political party with the exception of some of the newer nationalist parties.

Although you may often hear about the "reliability Republican" South or the "liberal Northeast," the United States does not have any distinctively regional parties. Democrats typically draw their support from urban populations while the Republican Party is more popular in rural areas.

There is substantially less party discipline in American political parties as compared to their European counterparts. As a rule, however, the wings of either party dominate the primary elections, which determine which candidates for office will run in the general elections. This is in small part because voting in the United States is widely considered a hassle (we do not receive time off work), and in much larger part because the wings of either party tend to be home to the most passionate partisans -- those people who are more apt to believe that a victory for the opposing party would be Very Bad News™. In recent years, the Republican Party has suffered most from this trend: so-called fringe candidates will do well in primaries with a small, hard core of ultra-conservatives, then get trounced by a more moderate Democratic opponent who siphons votes from the moderate middle.

The extent to which candidates are better off pandering to their base and hoping for good turnout, versus compromising on issues in hopes of attracting voters who are undecided, is a matter of considerable debate. Right now, I think, Republican politics is dominated by the myth that a large (decisive) bloc of ultra-conservatives is staying home rather than vote for a "weak" or "false" conservative with more appeal to moderate voters, but I'm honestly not sure that's the case, both because ultra-conservatives should still prefer a weak conservative over a confirmed liberal, and because, if that bloc were really so decisive, they'd be able to ram their own candidate of choice through the primary process.

The average American voter is highly skeptical of what is derisively known as "European-style Socialism," or welfare socialism, which is often caricatured as one step away from Communism.

In general, conservatives tend to focus on themes of fiscal responsibility (a balanced budget, reduced taxation, etc.), a stout national defense (conservatives tend to dominate the national security establishment and have historically been considered "hawkish" since at least World War Two, and an identifiably Judeo-Christian morality (restrictions on abortion, advocacy of "traditional" lifestyles and cultural norms, etc.). Many conservatives are keen about the Laffer Curve, an economics equation that supposedly demonstrates that reduced taxation will stimulate more private investment, which in turn will grow the economy and actually generate more tax revenue. They are generally skeptical of government, citing the inherent inefficiencies of bureaucracy and asserting that those who are merely given public money have no incentive to steward it properly. They also tend to believe that regulation usually imposes unreasonable burdens on business. They are also usually of the belief that private charity is superior to redistributive policies, and many conservatives are firm believers that free social services, including free healthcare, actually discourage people from working.

Right now, there is a major battle within the Republican Party among those who prioritize social conservatism and the so-called Establishment, which is usually conceived of by its critics as an alliance of socially liberal, fiscally conservative businessmen and their political puppets. These are your "classic" or "traditional" conservatives: Nixon, Ford, and the like. In practice, many religious conservatives in the United States are actually unwitting Dominionists -- those who would govern according to Scripture, if they could. (This is why you hear so many Americans speak very unthoughtfully about the danger posed by "Muslims.")

Social conservatives in the U.S. generally feel as if they are coming under fire for their views and are concerned that they can no longer express their true values in the public forum. They are therefore usually critical of so-called "political correctness." They are also inclined to stress personal accountability in all things, to the extent that they may be prone to discounting structural and historical factors that contribute to poverty or alienation. I think this has a lot to do with their perception that to talk about these issues is really just to imply endorsement of liberal policies, as if to admit the existence of structural inequality is to commit to a particular strategy for dealing with it, which is ridiculous. Social conservatives are also generally the party of "law and order." They prioritize tradition and certainty over the ambiguity of social change. They tend to reduce matters to the level of the individual. Not crime, but a criminal.

The Democratic Party is more positive about the ability of government to act as a leveler to redress inequality. They are more comfortable with the idea that government needs to use regulation to correct for market distortions and historical iniquities. They are generally the party of Big Labor and the urban poor, and it is a point of dispute whether this support is simply a reflection of their more generous social policies or whether conservatives have shot themselves in the foot by giving the impression that they are the party only of old, angry white people. They are also, unsurprisingly, more popular among Millennials, who generally hold progressive social views. Democrats are more likely than Republicans to believe that faith is a private matter for the individual, to support abortion rights, to accept Affirmative Action policies, and to value consensus-seeking on the international stage.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2015, 01:20:52 PM
Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/ (http://feelthebern.org/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2015, 02:47:21 PM
Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/ (http://feelthebern.org/)


Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much organized information about them available?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2015, 03:22:14 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?

I don't know about all... Washington and Eisenhower didn't have much of a voting record, I don't think. So I wouldn't  make that an automatic qualifier, I don't want to be locked into career politicians only. I'm pleased with my business owner/accountant turned US Senator.

That said, it sure is nice, and would be a great step forward as a new norm!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 03:27:37 AM
I do think the gentleman we have in residence is a good man - but you know I don't think he's done a good enough job.  Not being a fraction as bad as possibly the worst president in history isn't good enough.

-I put a lot of that down to Bakrama hadn't paid his dues, and wasn't ready.  One incomplete hitch in the Senate at the national level isn't even close.

I thought so at the time, and I think events have more than proved me right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 03:42:20 AM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11892179_492455020923408_3297260980836864299_n.jpg?oh=e6aa7cb6872c45b809782cd2a6297329&oe=564A0618)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 16, 2015, 04:10:16 AM
Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?

Fiorina has quite a proven background as a chief executive...it's a background as a complete failure, but still a background.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 04:35:05 AM
In business, as a CEO.

I heard she did really well in the losers' debate, but I'm not even looking at anyone without government experience.  Pay Your Dues.  We've had really horrible 'luck' lately with under-qualified presidents.  Pay. Your. Dues.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 16, 2015, 04:38:07 AM
Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/ (http://feelthebern.org/)

 :read:
The website has:
(a): Pictures that provide stereotypical examples of the "issue" they represent. *Checks box on list*
(b): Covers most of the domestic and foreign areas of concern. *Check*
(c): The website domain consists of a catchy play on words. *Check*
(d): The content on the website interior attempts to sell you on his "achievements." *Check*
Overall it appears as though he is your standard politician with slightly more than average information available in regards to his stated location on various concerns.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 16, 2015, 04:45:42 AM
In business, as a CEO.

I heard she did really well in the losers' debate, but I'm not even looking at anyone without government experience.  Pay Your Dues.  We've had really horrible 'luck' lately with under-qualified presidents.  Pay. Your. Dues.
How much homage, *donkey* snorkeling, and bribery must a person offer to the major political parties of this country in order to become President, Senator, or House Representative? Luck has very little to do with elections.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 04:52:31 AM
Doesn't matter.  I'm SICK of having to vote for the least unqualified for President.  Leave that for town council seats, and find me some experienced candidates.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 16, 2015, 04:59:24 AM
The fundamental problem is that some (many) individuals vote for a candiate based upon his or her overall emotional appeal on issues that matter to them. This ultimately means that the most qualified candiate is less likely to become nominated as president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 16, 2015, 03:50:24 PM
In business, as a CEO.

Yeah...she failed at the less demanding chief executive position, so no way should she be allowed near the more demanding one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 03:54:44 PM
There it is. ;nod
Title: The Powerful vs. [Sleezebag]
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
Quote
The Powerful vs. [Sleezebag]
The powerful always win.
Splice Today
Noah Berlatsky  Aug 10, 2015, 10:25AM


(http://assets.splicetoday.com/uploads/posts/photos/18105/large_rs_560x415-150616092441-1024.Donald-[Sleezebag]-Runs-President.jl.061615.jpg)



Powerful people are in fact powerful. Ergo, when Donald [Sleezebag] pisses off powerful people, this is bad for Donald [Sleezebag].

That seems like a pretty straightforward argument. But pundits love to be counterintuitive, and so various people are in fact making the counterintuitive argument that [Sleezebag] helps himself by making the powerful hate him. Thus Jeet Heer on Twitter tells the "elite media & political class" that "all the things about [Sleezebag] that make you cringe are what his base loves about him." Josh Marshall adds "base Republican politics is about the appeal of rule breaking and grievance. I don't think [Sleezebag] will lose playing to those." GOP elites can cut off [Sleezebag]'s head, but whenever they do, two hair-pieces grow back in its place.

It's certainly true that the GOP has made a fetish out of anti-establishmentarianism. As a result, they've opened up space for unqualified candidates to use their lack of qualifications as a selling point. Herman Cain, Michelle Bachman, Newt Gingrich, Ben Carson, etc. etc. They all had their polling spurts and their moment to gorge on publicity, even though none were remotely acceptable to the party.

[Sleezebag], with his reality television brand, his money,  and his flare for the flamboyantly outrageous, has made a bigger splash than any of these little trumplets. But is he really qualitatively different? Has he truly found a way to defy political gravity? Will [Sleezebag]'s campaign reshape the face of the Republican party—by, for example, centering anti-immigrant policies, or by making the other candidates look weak and unPresidential?

I'm skeptical, largely because, again, powerful people are actually powerful. [Sleezebag]'s reckless bluster, and his refusal to make any effort to court party elites, has already cost his campaign badly. He's been frozen out by the Koch brothers, who refused to let him speak at an annual grass-roots summit, and also won't let him purchase vital data and analytics services that they control. Erick Erikson of Redstate disinvited [Sleezebag] from his conservative activist event last week, citing [Sleezebag]'s attacks on Fox News' Megyn Kelly. 

Perhaps most tellingly, [Sleezebag]'s attacks on Kelly led his campaign manager Roger Stone to quit ([Sleezebag] says he fired him, for what it's worth.) Stone said in a memo, "Unfortunately, the current controversies involving personalities and provocative media fights have reached such a high volume that it has distracted attention from your platform and overwhelmed your core message." In other words, the battles [Sleezebag] has chosen to pick with party elites have damaged his campaign and made his manager abandon ship.

[Sleezebag] is still doing well in polls. But political scientists have established pretty clearly that polls a year before a presidential election mean little. Party endorsements are much more predictive of who wins. Polls mostly tell you who has name recognition and who is in the news. Which is why [Sleezebag] can say horrible things about Mexicans or veterans or Megyn Kelly and still have his poll numbers go up. Any news is good news—if you're running to get high poll numbers, rather than running for the Republican nomination.

If you are running for the party nomination, though, you need an organization. You need access to data. You need party activists. You need endorsements from people who can connect you to party networks and resources. You need a get out the vote operation; you need call lists. You need donors (yes, even [Sleezebag] needs donors). You need media that won't just mention your name, but will tell people to vote for you.

If [Sleezebag] were a decent politician, he might have been able to turn his flair for publicity into a movement that could have affected the campaign. He might have pushed the GOP to the right on immigration for example (though it's quite far to the right already.) But he's chosen to be a clown-show, and now most of the media coverage of him, by left and right (check out the National Review on [Sleezebag]) is about how he's a clown. His poll numbers will probably stay high for a while, because, again, he's in the news. But without party actors and party elites, there's no way for him to convert those poll numbers to actual influence, relevance, or votes.

This is perhaps the real significance of [Sleezebag]. He hasn't changed the rules of politics, but he demonstrates how the Republicans have fooled their voters (and for that matter, many liberal pundits) into thinking that the rules of politics have changed, or should change. The myth of the pure populist poisons Republican politics, not because it means [Sleezebag] will win, but because it means that every GOP politician ends up pretending to be [Sleezebag], just a little. Refusal to compromise has become a default goal in itself, which makes it difficult for Republicans to offer any real policy proposals (they're still working on the health care plan, I understand.)

It would be nice  to imagine that [Sleezebag] will scare the GOP into changing. But I doubt that will happen either. [Sleezebag], who blusters about his own influence, doesn't understand or respect power enough to do anything, or get anything done, either for ill or for good. He's a decent entertainer, perhaps. But he's an ineffectual demagogue.
#.Vci4GT77ets.twitter]http://www.splicetoday.com/politics-and-media/the-powerful-vs-[Sleezebag]#.Vci4GT77ets.twitter (http://www.splicetoday.com/politics-and-media/the-powerful-vs-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 04:16:57 PM
Rusty, I've got enough in-pocket to pay off my bet with Uno, and I think I sorta lost.

I was right, but overestimating the good sense of the public and the desperation of the mass media group mind to get rid of the Pig.  -Also, the other candidates took him seriously, because the Group Mind is an idiot.

We need a ruling, I think.  It's been long enough.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2015, 05:39:32 PM
I thought Fox would come out with another poll in a week. That's what I was waiting for.  They didn't. Or maybe they had one and they suppressed it, I don't know.

Obviously [Sleezebag] put his foot in his mouth at the debate, and in the aftermath. But if anything, he got a boost. Even more with people who didn't actually watch. He feeds off the spot light, and FOX put him under it.

Pay Uno, [Sleezebag] didn't lose big. That was the bet.

At this point in the election cycle, I think there's a lot of hostility for status quo politics and politicians, and anything that sounds fresh or unscripted is going to appeal to the public, thus-

Sanders and [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 05:47:34 PM
Paying.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 16, 2015, 05:50:41 PM
Paid.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 17, 2015, 11:01:49 PM
Well, FOX finally came out with a post-debate poll.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/16/fox-news-poll-shakeup-in-gop-field-after-first-debate-sanders-gains-on-clinton/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/16/fox-news-poll-shakeup-in-gop-field-after-first-debate-sanders-gains-on-clinton/)


[/"Who’s up?  Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and businesswoman Carly Fiorina.  Who’s down? Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker.

 On the Democratic side, Clinton drops below 50 percent for the first time, while Sanders keeps climbing.  She leads among Democratic primary voters by 19 points (49-30 percent).  Two weeks ago Clinton was up by 29 points (51-22 percent). A month ago she had a 40-point advantage (59-19 percent).

Vice President Joe Biden, who is undeclared, receives the backing of 10 percent.

The remaining Democratic candidates are at one percent or less.
"
b]

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 17, 2015, 11:07:46 PM
Note that the quoted material does the same thing Huffington Post said it was going to do; not cover The Pig.  It is too much to hope that whorey Fox news will keep it up, but when they agree with HuffPo about ANYthing at ALL, that's really interesting, isn't it?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 17, 2015, 11:09:57 PM
Note that the quoted material does the same thing Huffington Post said it was going to do; not cover The Pig.  It is too much to hope that whorey Fox news will keep it up, but when they agree with HuffPo about ANYthing at ALL, that's really interesting, isn't it?

Not really.  We already knew that they both agree that the current two-party political system is a good thing, and that media bias is ok.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 17, 2015, 11:12:46 PM
An enlightened individual must have the capacity to keep an open mind while both eliminating poor options and minimizing personal bias on a particular issue.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 17, 2015, 11:26:24 PM
We already knew that they both agree that the current two-party political system is a good thing, and that media bias is ok.
I know no such thing as to the first part, and believe it indicates a lack of knowledge/understanding of what Ms. Huffington is about (besides founding a rather skeevey leftist news site).  -She thinks the system is nasty and borked beyond belief, I assure you.

In fact, I'm pretty sure almost anyone at Fox would say the same.  They just profoundly disagree about what parts are evil and ruining the whole thing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 18, 2015, 02:13:11 PM
I'm running for Parliament! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG6fhub9HDQ&feature=player_embedded#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 18, 2015, 10:55:07 PM
We already knew that they both agree that the current two-party political system is a good thing, and that media bias is ok.
I know no such thing as to the first part, and believe it indicates a lack of knowledge/understanding of what Ms. Huffington is about (besides founding a rather skeevey leftist news site).  -She thinks the system is nasty and borked beyond belief, I assure you.

In fact, I'm pretty sure almost anyone at Fox would say the same.  They just profoundly disagree about what parts are evil and ruining the whole thing.

Ok, maybe I should have said "they both agree that the current two-party political system doesn't have both parties being evil".
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 18, 2015, 11:13:07 PM
That's more like being opposite, as you were trying to point out.  The thing is, even extreme outlets on the opposite sides agree that the Pig is no good - it's just their blatant slant that allows them to let it show.

-Bet NPR has had some interesting thing to say about the Pig.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on August 18, 2015, 11:59:28 PM
That's more like being opposite, as you were trying to point out.

Except in how they react to something that's apparently taking aim at both sides...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 25, 2015, 06:56:39 AM
We watched "Meet The Press" Sunday because it was about Hillary and Donald. Here are some interesting bits-

Citizen at a [Sleezebag] Rally- " He's our microphone"
Panelist- "[Sleezebag] is basically a more likeable version of Pat Buchanan"
another Panelist- "He has moved from unthinkable to thinkable"

Then they had Hillary clips- Her dealing with the e-mail server over time.
Hillary polls.
Comment- She's a good lawyer, and that's what she sounds like.

****************************************************
Today the White House press secretary was pressed about Obama's preference between Biden and Hillary. He pointed out that Obama once said that Joe Biden was the best political decision he ever made. Furthermore, Obama will support the party's eventual presidential candidate.

*****************************************************

I despise Hillary. She's a walking lawyer joke. Or politician joke.

I have a copy of the Watergate transcripts. It might be worth something if it hadn't sat too close to a window for too many years. I digress. I see a comparison between Nixon's tapes and Hillary's server. The reason to resist turning them over isn't so much about fear of incrimination, it's about revealing personal character for what it is behind the public image. Cursing. Anger. Opinions of people in the party and the public. That sort of thing.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Vishniac on August 25, 2015, 08:11:10 PM
Bakrama had to take his window of opportunity when it was there, but the lack of dues paid/experience qualifying has shown in his tepid presidency, I think, for all that his greater problem is trying to be conciliatory in the face of implacable intransigent (Nazi) opposition. 
...
 I do not enjoy the childish squealing of the secret (if that) racist/selfishness/nazi crap-talk party when a Democrat gets in, and I'd love to see the party cough up someone less polarizing - the thing that moderate Obama should have been if he'd been perceived publically as the centrist compromiser he is (when we needed a populist firebrand cleaning house of Nazis - we got the worst of all worlds with him).

All republicans who have not explicitly denounced the excesses of the Cheney Occupation are simply out of the question for any office under any conditions -
...
Thoughts?  Like anyone out there for President and why?

You know, Man, I found that thread and thought it would be an interesting read but this first post...
It seems that nowadays you can't express an opinion right of socialism without being labelled a nazi.
Against gay marriage? NAZI!
Against illimited immigration? NAZI!
Defend the right to self-defense? NAZI!
Against social spending? NAZI!
People talking like that just appear excessive and ridiculous and, of course, untolerant to the extreme. Not to say oblivious to facts: why talk with someone like that then?

And now I'll keep on reading... ;santi;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 25, 2015, 08:27:01 PM
Fine.  There's no pleasing you.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 25, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Let me underline that: the only opinion you express in Rec Commons is that my opinions suck.  That's seriously butthole behavior.

GO. AWAY.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 25, 2015, 09:14:36 PM
Quote
You know, Man, I found that thread and thought it would be an interesting read but this first post...
It seems that nowadays you can't express an opinion right of socialism without being labelled a nazi.
Against gay marriage? NAZI!
Against illimited immigration? NAZI!
Defend the right to self-defense? NAZI!
Against social spending? NAZI!
People talking like that just appear excessive and ridiculous and, of course, untolerant to the extreme. Not to say oblivious to facts: why talk with someone like that then?

And now I'll keep on reading...

Bingo. You can only shriek NAZI, HATER, RACIST at people so many times before it starts to lose its effect.
And the left has been doing this ever since WW2. People in this country are utterly sick of this marxist Politically Correct crap. And its probably going to propel
[Sleezebag] right into the white house.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 25, 2015, 10:20:08 PM
...Yeah; I'm REALLY gone overboard calling Dick Cheney a Nazi...

;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc
;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc
;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc
;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc
;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc ;sarc

I don't know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Vishniac on August 25, 2015, 10:58:05 PM
GO. AWAY.
No.
I won't be leftist-bullied.  :P
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 25, 2015, 11:48:50 PM
Look; don't play that reactionary game with me.  It's not about you being wrong; it's about you being a jerk to me every time you post in this folder - instead of bothering to actually contribute anything of substance.

You need to check your manners, sir.

There's a term forum people use to refer to members who only neg.  We've been over and over this in the Star Trek thread repeatedly, and you got nothing to say about what you like or why you like it - just drive-bys to criticize another member's expression of opinion.

[admin hat] Get in the habit of expressing your own positive opinions, how and why you are in favor of/ like something in  in some small detail, to balance out the bad-mouthing.  That is how a healthy community works.  You do not add content in here; you only complain.  That must stop.

von, since you saw fit to jump in and dog-pile with the same tired crap as always, same goes for you.  Since your first OT post, you've been on thin ice - balance out the bad-mouthing with positive talk about anything if you want to contribute to our community and do not wish to be officially designated a troll and treated accordingly.  -At least you have three or four not-crap-talk posts in Masks going for you.

-Gentlemen, I've asked both of you to cool it with the offending behaviors many times.  I advise you think very carefully before you make that next Rec Commons post.

Incidentally, publically-announced site policy is that rules-lawyering compounds the offense. [/admin hat]
Title: Fox News Unleashes Angry Anchors on ‘Totally Out of Control’ Donald [Sleezebag]
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2015, 01:54:42 AM
Quote
Fox News Unleashes Angry Anchors on ‘Totally Out of Control’ Donald [Sleezebag]
The Wrap
Jordan Chariton  August‎ ‎25‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/J0BTVnIk8GNvLYPMiUG3Og--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjE4O2g9NDA4/http://media.zenfs.com/en_US/News/TheWrap/Fox_News_Unleashes_Angry_Anchors-a8d5a507e6dce1836146008cffb07ad0)



Fox News Channel unleashed its anchors on Tuesday to fight back against Donald [Sleezebag]’s renewed criticisms of star anchor Megyn Kelly.

“He is totally out of bounds reigniting that fight,” Fox & Friends host Brian Kilmeade said on Tuesday’s show.”I don’t know if he expects to get ratings out of that, or poll numbers, but he’s not going to be successful. “You can not, you should not, keep going after her.”

Kilmeade also called [Sleezebag] “totally out of control” (probably a comment that won’t help keep [Sleezebag] as a regular phone guest on the morning show).

Sean Hannity, Geraldo Rivera, Bret Baier, Bill Hemmer and Dana Perino took to Twitter to directly and indirectly tell [Sleezebag] to cool it with the Kelly attacks.


[Sleezebag] live-tweeted during “The Kelly File” on Monday night, criticizing the Fox star, who had just returned from vacation. He also retweeted tweets that called her a “bimbo.”


The [Sleezebag]–Fox News feud begun after [Sleezebag] went off on Kelly following the network’s GOP presidential debate, calling her questions unfair and suggesting she was menstruating during the debate.

The anchors’ breaking their silence is the first of what’s likely to be a strong, coordinates response from Fox News and network chairman Roger Ailes.

The network hasn’t yet formally made a statement on [Sleezebag]’s renewed attacks on Kelly.
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/fox-news-unleashes-angry-anchors-totally-control-donald-163519555.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/fox-news-unleashes-angry-anchors-totally-control-donald-163519555.html)

---

See the link for a bunch of tweets that are too much trouble to copy (and format badly in quotes).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 26, 2015, 02:26:39 AM
Suppose FOX decided to ignore him. Even going as far to list him in their poll questions as "other".

Do you think he could win the Republican nomination?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2015, 02:29:17 AM
They sure have a lot of say over what that particular corner of the group mind is thinking...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 26, 2015, 02:50:59 AM
Quote
Geraldo Rivera

uh oh.  they pulling out the big guns. 

"Any Press is Good Press." 

I think this defines the [Sleezebag] campaign to date.  AND IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING.  You are going to have to nail him down on WHAT, exactly, he plans to DO.  Build a wall, make jobs, etc etc etc.  Yeah, how you gonna do that?  How you going to handle foreign affairs when you can't even hold a diplomatic conversation with anyone who disagrees with you? 

Nail him down on those, he seems to be immune to the character flaws.  In fact, they seem to be STRENGTHS to the general public. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 26, 2015, 02:53:28 AM
And, like it or not, he is DOMINATING the news cycle.  Totally annihilating everyone else.  Can't learn a damn thing about anyone other than what they said about [Sleezebag]. 

This continues, he wins.  Hands down. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 26, 2015, 03:37:16 AM
Quote
Geraldo Rivera

uh oh.  they pulling out the big guns. 

"Any Press is Good Press." 

I think this defines the [Sleezebag] campaign to date.  AND IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING.  You are going to have to nail him down on WHAT, exactly, he plans to DO.  Build a wall, make jobs, etc etc etc.  Yeah, how you gonna do that?  How you going to handle foreign affairs when you can't even hold a diplomatic conversation with anyone who disagrees with you? 

Nail him down on those, he seems to be immune to the character flaws.  In fact, they seem to be STRENGTHS to the general public.
When did character flaws become a strength? What level of degeneracy has this country reached?  ???
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2015, 03:40:09 AM
We got Swiss people calling us commies.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 26, 2015, 04:16:46 AM
When did character flaws become a strength? What level of degeneracy has this country reached?  ???

I think it's the consequences of the perpetual PR campaign, blame game and gridlock.
Democrats <----> Republicans   
President <----> Congress

There's a large part of the public that has become anti-politician as a result.
So anything that [Sleezebag] says that I would describe as a gaff, others consider proof that [Sleezebag] is speaking from the heart, and not reciting focus-group tested sound bytes or weasel-lawyer evasions as a professional politician would.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 26, 2015, 04:17:42 AM

When did character flaws become a strength? What level of degeneracy has this country reached?  ???

It's just [Sleezebag]. 

Look at the Anchor Baby situation:  [Sleezebag] uses it: no change/possible INCREASE.  Bush uses it: 8 point drop and scandalized in the press. 

There's this funny dual standard with [Sleezebag].  You attack his character issues you're just against him because he's not a politician, all the better for him.  Meanwhile, politicians stooping to his level get CRUSHED as would traditionally happen.     
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 26, 2015, 06:13:37 AM
Quote
Suppose FOX decided to ignore him. Even going as far to list him in their poll questions as "other".

Do you think he could win the Republican nomination?

If they try to ignore him they lose he wins. The other candidates are a joke and everyone knows it.
Jeb Bush might as well be running for Mexican presidency and he has all the Bush family legacy besides.
The reason that [Sleezebag] is hammering everyone flat is the people of this country are sick to death of
our country becoming a third world country while were expected to pay for it. We have politicians that
don't act in our interests and expect us to pay for our own destruction besides.  Oh and if we object to
being demographically replaced were racists.The media lies to our face and expects us to believe them.
What do these people expect? Someone like [Sleezebag] was inevitable.
Quote
How you going to handle foreign affairs when you can't even hold a diplomatic conversation with anyone who disagrees with you? 
This is 90 % of his popularity. The more the media bully, whine and play their stupid little the stronger he gets.
Because he isn't scared of them and doesn't apologize to them. The more he does this the more powerful he gets.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2015, 11:35:54 AM
von, that there's a substantial post with analysis and everything.  This is more the style I want to encourage. ;b;

Have you ever seen Network?  "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"  It could be the Tea Party slogan - or [Sleezebag]'s.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 26, 2015, 02:42:55 PM
This is 90 % of his popularity. The more the media bully, whine and play their stupid little the stronger he gets.
Because he isn't scared of them and doesn't apologize to them. The more he does this the more powerful he gets.

I agree.  I'm not asking the media to care about what they say to THEM.  How is he going to negotiate with Mexico or China.  Neither of which he's not exactly building bridges with, and both of which are rather key partners.  This might be too nebulous a concept for the general public, though. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 26, 2015, 03:26:38 PM
Still, polls are one thing, but people who actually vote take it seriously -for whatever reason- unlike stupid polls.

That thing Mitt Romney got in trouble for saying last time about how 47% of the voters were automatically going to vote against him?  Not hard to see how that could be taken badly, but he kinda got deaned on that one - 'cause he was right.  Precious few voted for the monkey, a man with few real positives, considerable negatives, and good name recognition in the 2000 election - but almost half voted against Al Gore, who campaigns with all the seeming integrity of a hooker desperate to raise money for the next fix of heroine.  Nobody won that election, but, of two very weak candidates, Gore lost it.

I just can't believe -and you guys aren't wrong about the public perception that the media sucks, which is there because it's true- that antagonizing the information gatekeepers to the degree the Pig has isn't going to bite him on the butt.  Repeat: it's the people who decide what information to pass to the public he's making enemies of.  Reagan and people following in his style limited themselves to a little carping and slander about bias - this is going to play out differently over time, mark my words.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 26, 2015, 03:40:11 PM
Repeat: it's the people who decide what information to pass to the public he's making enemies of. 

Kind of.  It's the PEOPLE who decide which media to watch, and a failure to produce what they WANT will swiftly result in no jobs, though. 

They HAVE to cover [Sleezebag] bacause the people have spoken.  And, they can't just spin it all negative because it'll just make a bigger case FOR [Sleezebag]. 

Long term, yeah, they can potentially ween people off onto "real" candidates, but they need a little help from said candidates to make themselves interesting. 

Either the public gets bored with [Sleezebag]'s sideshow act, or someone else steps up.  That's our options. 

Title: Donald [Sleezebag]: I don't want David Duke's endorsement
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 27, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
Quote
Donald [Sleezebag]: I don't want David Duke's endorsement
Politico
By Brianna Ehley  | 8/26/15 6:55 PM EDT  | Updated 8/27/15 1:02 AM EDT


(http://images.politico.com/global/2015/08/26/150826_donald_trump_2_gty_629_956x519.jpg)
BIRCH RUN, MI - AUGUST 11: Republican presidential candidate Donald [Sleezebag] speaks at a press conference before delivering the keynote address at the Genesee and Saginaw Republican Party Lincoln Day Event August 11, 2015 in Birch Run, Michigan. This is [Sleezebag]'s first campaign event since his Republican debate last week. (Photo by Bill Pugliano/Getty Images)



Donald [Sleezebag] says he isn’t interested in the endorsement of David Duke, the anti-Semitic former Ku Klux Klan leader who praised the GOP presidential hopeful earlier this week on his radio show.

“I don’t need his endorsement; I certainly wouldn’t want his endorsement,” [Sleezebag] said during an interview with Bloomberg’s Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. He added: “I don’t need anyone’s endorsement.”

Asked whether he would repudiate the endorsement, [Sleezebag] said “Sure, I would if that would make you feel better.”

Duke sang [Sleezebag]’s praises on his radio show last week — calling him the “best of the lot” of GOP contenders. Duke isn’t the only white supremacist expressing support for [Sleezebag]. The New Yorker reported earlier this week that the white-nationalist website VDARE touted [Sleezebag] as “the first figure with the financial, cultural and economic resources to openly defy elite consensus.”

[Sleezebag], however, doesn’t appear to be concerned that he’s attracting these kinds of fans.

“A lot of people like me,” he said. “Republicans like me, liberals like me. Everybody likes me.”


Read more: -doesnt-want-david-duke-endorsement-121784.html#ixzz3k2Mscq8S]http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-[Sleezebag]-doesnt-want-david-duke-endorsement-121784.html#ixzz3k2Mscq8S (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-[Sleezebag)
;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 28, 2015, 11:54:46 AM
Quote
I agree.  I'm not asking the media to care about what they say to THEM.  How is he going to negotiate with Mexico or China.  Neither of which he's not exactly building bridges with, and both of which are rather key partners.  This might be too nebulous a concept for the general public, though.


We don't need either country. We can build our own things and pick our own vegetables.
He's a business man and used to doing business. You don't have to like someone to do
business with them. I think both countries would respect him more than most other
recent leaders.
Personally I think a lot of countries would secretly breathe a sigh
of relief at seeing someone that would get Americas act together before it collapses and
disintegrates like the USSR did.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 28, 2015, 06:53:40 PM
We don't need either country. We can build our own things and pick our own vegetables.

At first I was tempted to respond with an explanation of international co-dependence. We need each other.

Upon further reflection, I realized that no, say before the Korean war or thereabouts, we did pick our own vegetables, and build our own things, and were rather prosperous. Production shifted to China and Mexico in pursuit of cheap labor and lax environmental regs, making it more profitable.

Of course, that has hidden costs and consequences, beyond the obvious loss of good manufacturing jobs. Disregard for patents. Disregard for air quality, which is kind of a global issue. Insidiously, toxins have a way of being sold here hidden in pet foods, dry wall sheets, and knock-off pharmaceuticals.

Going forward, maybe we don't need that any more. A lot of manufacturing can be done with machines and robots that couldn't before. If we run short of young people to pick our vegetables, we can address that with work visas and regulated immigration from a global pool.

Anyway, I think vonbach has a point this time. Long term, we are not over a barrel from a negotiation standpoint. Today we need China to keep WalMart open, but beyond that?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 28, 2015, 08:08:58 PM
Why keep Wal-Mart open?  It's evil.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 28, 2015, 10:44:01 PM
WalMart? Yeah, I've got issues with WalMart myself.

*Locking illeagal alien cleaning crews in the store at night.

*Here (before Obamacare ) wages were low enough that WalMArt workers got their health insurance through Medicaid.

* In the county where I first lived, WalMart came in. They engaged in predatory pricing, selling below their cost, or so my cousin once removed told me. He was a CPA who worked for them for a time. That's a good deal for the consumers, right? It put the locally owned department stores and some of the groceries and strip mall specialty stores out of business.  Thing is, I don't know that WalMart is still selling below cost, now that they have a monopoly. Nobody has deep enough pockets to start a new local department store to keep them honest.

Now another store might come in if the market were large enough, but until there's room for both WalMart and say Target, for example, who wants to come in, spend the capital, and have to compete with WalMart  going predatory again?  The rural people are sort of hostages. They can shop at WalMart, or drive to another county.

WalMart has an evil streak.

Becoming self-reliant is never easy, but it usually has merit.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on August 28, 2015, 11:09:13 PM
WalMart? Yeah, I've got issues with WalMart myself.

*Locking illeagal alien cleaning crews in the store at night.

*Here (before Obamacare ) wages were low enough that WalMArt workers got their health insurance through Medicaid.

* In the county where I first lived, WalMart came in. They engaged in predatory pricing, selling below their cost, or so my cousin once removed told me. He was a CPA who worked for them for a time. That's a good deal for the consumers, right? It put the locally owned department stores and some of the groceries and strip mall specialty stores out of business.  Thing is, I don't know that WalMart is still selling below cost, now that they have a monopoly. Nobody has deep enough pockets to start a new local department store to keep them honest.

Now another store might come in if the market were large enough, but until there's room for both WalMart and say Target, for example, who wants to come in, spend the capital, and have to compete with WalMart  going predatory again?  The rural people are sort of hostages. They can shop at WalMart, or drive to another county.

WalMart has an evil streak.

Becoming self-reliant is never easy, but it usually has merit.
The small business owners often lose in the long run to larger chains because of the efficency of scale that the larger chains have over the smaller business owner(s).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 28, 2015, 11:46:21 PM
They lose because a Big Brother monopoly larger than Microsoft moved in.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 29, 2015, 12:25:00 AM
Quote
Why keep Wal-Mart open?  It's evil.

Thats a good question really. If the factories were in America employing real Americans
I could deal with WalMart. But thats what tariffs are for.
Quote
It put the locally owned department stores and some of the groceries and strip mall specialty stores out of business.  Thing is, I don't know that WalMart is still selling below cost, now that they have a monopoly.
This why we used to have laws against monopolies.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2015, 12:49:10 AM
Fortunately, rural people now have Amazon to help keep WalMart honest.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Elok on August 30, 2015, 01:21:42 AM
I once asked a friend of mine why people single out Walmart for hate when Target is practically identical.  He replied, "Target's a little bit more expensive.  And it has better aesthetics.  Most liberal causes are about aesthetics."  As my friend is very liberal himself, I thought that was kinda funny.

Srsly, though.  Why does Walmart get so much more hate?  I don't know a lot about the facts of the controversy, this is open curiosity on my part.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 30, 2015, 01:48:42 AM
Target isn't muscular enough -no way of telling if it's that aggressive, given the means- to shut down local businesses.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 30, 2015, 02:41:03 AM
Well, where I used to live, WalMart came through first. Target came later , and only to the cities of 30,000 or more people. They were seen as an alternative to WalMart. So WalMart "equates" with a loss of choice, while Target is associated with a second and better choice. 

I forgot to mention that WalMArt tends to build new when they want to switch from a WalMArt to a Super WalMart in a successful town, and leave a run down eyesore of an abandoned big box behind.

**********************************************

But let me tell you about Target, and why I'm boycotting them. It revolves around Thanksgiving and Black Friday. The Friday sales kept getting earlier and more outrageous. Our family dinners are incomplete now, because we have retailers in the family, and they have NO CHOICE about when they work regarding Thanksgiving week.

Beyond that, a few years ago my wife got suckered into a Target bait and switch scam. We went there at 11PM or so Thanksgiving night, and after we put a couple hundred dollars worth of qualifying merchandise in our cart, we meandered in a checkout line for a little over 45 minutes, and qualified for some kind of gift cards or discount certificates.

When we went back the following week to redeem them, we wasted hours hanging around while mangers called each other, because they made a policy change on Monday regarding these discount certificates. They were no longer good for everything in the store. I REALLY HATE A BAIT AND SWITCH, it doesn't matter who's doing it. 

So, I stopped doing business with them. They lost thousands of dollars/year from me as a direct result, but I don't do business with companies I can't trust to honor their word. They might have lost-$40-60 on that discount cert. deal if they had put it through, but unless their profit margin is under 1%, they are losing that much every year I boycott the liars and slave drivers that force everybody to work on a holiday.

WalMart may be evil, but I buy from them sometimes. The employees may not know much, but they are always nice to me. Target not at all. Their customer service sucked.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 30, 2015, 03:09:06 AM
We got a Walmart first (no groceries), then a super target, then the super walmart, and then neighborhood walmarts (only groceries)

When the first walmart opened, they were very unkind to employees.  Keeping them all under full time hours so they didn't have to provide benefits.  Target didn't hold that practice when they opened. 

I do not know the current situation of either store. 

When the Super Walmart opened, the Target downgraded our store class immediately without a fight.  (brother working there so I know) Lowering the stock levels and quality offered. 

My grocery shopping is split between Costco, a local chain, and the neighborhood walmart.  Various Sundries can only be found at the Target or Super WalMart. 



The black friday thing is now in a ridiculous state, and I only patronized a local mom and pop last year. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 30, 2015, 03:18:08 AM
I will say local managers have a BIG impact on the stores, at least here. 

My very first manager ever (at burger king at the time) happens to be a WalMart manager.  They move her around the area.  Whichever store she touches is GOLD.  ORGANIZED.  CLEAN.  EFFICIENT.  Speaking as a customer, but believe it would be the same for the employees under  her.  If they could only find a way to keep the stores up to snuff after she left it would be wonderful.  Unfortunately, she's one of those rare lead from the front types that are oh so difficult to duplicate. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 30, 2015, 06:43:41 PM
On Topic-  -leads-carson-second/71285456/]http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2015/08/29/iowa-poll-[Sleezebag]-leads-carson-second/71285456/ (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/2015/08/29/iowa-poll-[Sleezebag)

The Des Moines Register came out with poll results of likely caucus goers.
Big ant-establishment sentiment. "Mad as Hell"

[Sleezebag] still leads, Carson is up to 18% and Fiorina is up to about 5%.

None of the establishment/qualified candidates is in double digits any more. Most people say they'll vote for the person and trust them to figure out the issues once they're in office.

An interesting read and it doesn't support the copy function.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 31, 2015, 02:07:30 AM
Quote
If they could only find a way to keep the stores up to snuff after she left it would be wonderful.  Unfortunately, she's one of those rare lead from the front types that are oh so difficult to duplicate.

In other words she's one of the types that drive employees out of the door.
Most of the people working nowadays simply cant bring themselves to care
enough to bother when they are paid just over minimum wage. It reminds me
of the old soviet saying "you pretend to pay us and we'll pretend to work."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 31, 2015, 03:08:43 AM
No, I'm sure she's one of those types who keeps employees with considerate treatment.  -Also, she pretty much lives in the store.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on August 31, 2015, 11:50:43 AM
Quote
No, I'm sure she's one of those types who keeps employees with considerate treatment.  -Also, she pretty much lives in the store.

Interesting. She's one of the rare ones in my experience.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 31, 2015, 03:31:55 PM
Lets say, if all other things were equal, I'd follow her and work wherever she was managing. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Geo on August 31, 2015, 04:19:17 PM
Got to love a manager like that. Especially if she can bring employees up to a standard.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 01, 2015, 01:15:27 AM
So today's poll has [Sleezebag] tied with Ben Carson, and Fiorina next at 10%
among Iowa Republican caucus goers.

Qualified professional politicians are all in single digits.

http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/85775b52-ec99-4ad3-bbee-14826bdf86e5.pdf (http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/85775b52-ec99-4ad3-bbee-14826bdf86e5.pdf)

"When Iowa Republicans are asked who they would support in their local caucus, Ben Carson
(23%) and Donald [Sleezebag] (23%) tie for the top spot. The next tier of candidates includes Carly Fiorina
(10%) and Ted Cruz (9%), followed by Scott Walker (7%), Jeb Bush (5%), John Kasich (4%), Marco
Rubio (4%), and Rand Paul (3%). The last two Iowa caucus victors, Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum,
each garner 2% of the vote. None of the other six candidates included in the poll register more than 1%
support.
“These results mark a significant shake-up in the leaderboard from Monmouth’s Iowa poll taken
before the first debate,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling
Institute in West Long Branch, NJ. “Carson and, to a lesser extent, Fiorina have surged, while Walker
has faded into the background.”
In mid-July, Walker was the front runner in Iowa, with [Sleezebag] and Carson following behind.
Since then, Walker’s support has dropped by 15 points, while Carson’s has increased by 15 points and
[Sleezebag]’s by 10 points. Support has also increased for Fiorina by 7 points since Monmouth’s last Iowa
poll."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 01, 2015, 02:49:34 PM
Quote
Carson hasn't criticized [Sleezebag]. In an interview on CNN's "State of the Union" in August, Carson insisted he isn't trying to "catch" [Sleezebag].

"What I am doing is steadily getting the message out, and connecting with the American people," he said. "And they are responding."

Carson will likely roll out policy ideas in the coming weeks. But the most immediate focus for his campaign is the next debate, hosted by CNN and set for September 16 in Simi Valley, California. While the goal of the first debate was for Carson to simply look like a credible presidential candidate, now that he is firmly in the top tier, he must offer more.

READ: Donald [Sleezebag]: No attacks on Ben Carson, Ted Cruz -- yet

Carson seized on momentum from the first debate, flooding the airwaves in Iowa and New Hampshire for two weeks with radio and television ads with Carson speaking directly to the camera.

"Our children face a very harsh future, unsustainable debt. Future generations will suffer," Carson said in the ad. "Washington is broken. The political class broke it. Please join me."

In Iowa, he has hosted a series of "family festivals" in three cities, featuring pony rides, popcorn and entertainment. Some 6,000 people showed up to the small scale fairs that doubled as political events.

Family festival mini fairs...oh, I like this guy's style.

I'm curious if he would be fairing nearly so well without [Sleezebag]'s lambastic rhetoric going on.  People hear [Sleezebag]'s cry against the political establishment and get interested, only to learn he's an idiot, then slide to Carson as a [Sleezebag], only smart option. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 02, 2015, 12:42:34 AM
Weird. When I try to open the thread to see the last post, I can only go as far as page 18.

When I try to post, I can see Uno's post about Ben Carson. Weird.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 02, 2015, 01:08:41 AM
Something weird's going on; I'll pass that along.

What operating system and browser and so on?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 02, 2015, 01:50:45 AM
Windows 7
Internet Explorer
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 02, 2015, 04:13:28 AM
Okay. Logged out, which required a password reset.

I did use  "Show unread posts since last visit" or "Show new replies to your posts." today, something I don't normally do.

Also, I donated blood today. All well, fine, and easy. Except I got really tired and stupid about dinner time tonight.  So who knows what I may have done.

Looking normal again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 02, 2015, 04:26:40 AM
I found a default setting that shouldn't have been checked - it should have only affected new members and guest, so why three people were having backwards day, I don't know.  But should be fixed.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 04, 2015, 01:11:58 AM
I heard that Monmouth came out with a new national poll -
[Sleezebag]-30%
Carson-18%
Walker-3%

 -and-bernie-sanders/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/09/02/kareem-abdul-jabbar-this-is-the-difference-between-donald-[Sleezebag]-and-bernie-sanders/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/09/02/kareem-abdul-jabbar-this-is-the-difference-between-donald-[Sleezebag)

[Sleezebag] attacked Kareem Abdul Jabar today because of his article in the Washington Post. Some excerpts-

"Attempting to bully the press to silence criticism of him is anti-American. He followed up this salvo on the First Amendment with a strike at the 14th Amendment, asserting that he’d like to deny those born in the country their citizenship. The biggest enemy to the principles of the Constitution right now is [Sleezebag]."

"[Sleezebag]’s rationale for avoiding Kelly’s debate question – that neither he nor America has time for “political correctness” – taps into a popular boogeyman. The term “political correctness” is so general that to most people it simply means a discomfort with changing times and attitudes, an attack on the traditions of how we were raised. (It’s an emotional challenge every generation has had to go through.) What it really means is nothing more than sensitizing people to the fact that some old-fashioned words, attitudes and actions may be harmful or insulting to others. Naturally, people are angry about that because it makes them feel stupid or mean when they really aren’t. But when times change, we need to change with them in areas that strengthen our society."

"It’s no longer “politically correct” to call African Americans “coloreds.” Or to pat a woman on the butt at work and say, “Nice job, honey.” Or to ask people their religion during a job interview. Or to deny a woman a job because she’s not attractive enough to you. Or to assume a person’s opinion is worth less because she is elderly. Or that physically challenged individuals shouldn’t have easy access to buildings. If you don’t have time for political correctness, you don’t have time to be the caretaker of our rights under the Constitution."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 01:19:43 AM
I like.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 04, 2015, 01:23:01 AM
That article is a good example of just why [Sleezebag] is doing so well. People in this country
have a fond remembrance of the times when we had freedom of speech and association.
Political correctness is communist cultural marxism.


Quote
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2009/11/19/the-roots-of-political-correctness/

Quote
Political Correctness is cultural Marxism, Marxism translated from economic into cultural terms. Its history goes back not to the 1960s but to World War I. Before 1914, Marxist theory said that if a major war broke out in Europe, the workers of every country would join together in a revolution to overthrow capitalism and replace it with international socialism. But when war came, that did not happen. What had gone wrong?

Two Marxist theorists, Antonio Gramsci in Italy and Georg Lukacs in Hungary, independently came up with the same answer. They said that Western culture and the Christian religion had so “blinded” the working class to its true (Marxist) class interests that Communism was impossible in the West until traditional culture and Christianity were destroyed. When Lukacs became Deputy Commissar for Culture in the short-lived Bela Kun Bolshevik government in Hungary in 1919, one of his first acts was introducing sex education into the Hungarian schools. He knew that destroying traditional sexual morals would be a major step toward destroying Western culture itself.

Quote
In the 1950s and 1960s, Herbert Marcuse translated the abstruse work of the other Frankfurt School thinkers into books college students could understand, such as Eros and Civilization, which became the Bible of the New Left in the 1960s. Marcuse injected the Frankfurt School’s cultural Marxism into the baby boom generation, to the point where it is now that generation’s ideology. We know it as “multiculturalism,” “diversity” or just Political Correctness.

That is the dirty little secret of Political Correctness, folks: it is a form of Marxism. If the average American knew that, I suspect Political Correctness would be in serious trouble.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 01:30:11 AM
You're not old enough to remember before Reagan.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 04, 2015, 01:33:56 AM
Were finally starting to see the popular revolt against that Marxist abortion  Political Correctness and its a wonderful thing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 01:37:39 AM
You're not old enough to remember very much before Dick & the Monkey, in fact.  Step up your game.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 04, 2015, 01:51:27 AM
Interesting. I'm the one that gets yelled at for being rude when I get posts like this directed at me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 04, 2015, 01:59:20 AM
That article is a good example of just why [Sleezebag] is doing so well. People in this country
have a fond remembrance of the times when we had freedom of speech and association.
Political correctness is communist cultural marxism.

If only we had a candidate who was anti-political-correctness and willing to describe the system how it is, and didn't have [Sleezebag]'s flaws...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 04, 2015, 02:06:59 AM
Quote
If only we had a candidate who was anti-political-correctness and willing to describe the system how it is, and didn't have [Sleezebag]'s flaws...

Agreed. At this point I'll take what I can get.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 02:15:41 AM
Now, that's a little more like it.

Perhaps rudeness invites rudeness?  My alternative is to throw the hat on and start phrasing my wishes in the imperative and mentioning the "B" word.  I'm trying to work with you instead.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on September 04, 2015, 02:18:12 AM
People in this country
have a fond remembrance of the times when we had freedom of speech and association.
Political correctness is communist cultural marxism.

Someone doesn't remember McCarthyism...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 04, 2015, 02:31:02 AM
Quote
Someone doesn't remember McCarthyism...

Yes I do. MyCarthy was right. Most of the  were communists.
Just take a look at today, communists are in charge.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 04, 2015, 02:32:41 AM
[Sleezebag] is doing well because, frankly, he is a no bull[poop]type of guy. He was a businessman whose already unique ego has been incubated by show business. That is refreshing to the average Joe who believes the myth that the game is somewhat fair and even they can be "THE MAN", if only they believe hard enough. Good wage slave.

Unfortunately, he is also a racist and mysogonist [sphincter]. He also has a habit of talking big crap but doing nothing. He had a big hoopla in New Orleans about a tower there. Ten years later, nothing there but the "coming soon" sign. Ditto for the aquarium in Biloxi. I am not sure sometimes which orifice all this crap spouts from if I did not have his dead animal looking toupee for navigational reference.

And.. do not get me started on his immigration deal. Throwing up a Great Wall of China did not work well for the Chinese. It will not work on the border. But he could always use immigrant labor like I am sure some of his contractors before shipping them to the other side of the wall.

Not sure the whole "cultural marxism" thing. I thought making sure everyone was okay was a good thing last I check. Oops... no wait. Only the Chosen Ones can have things like housing, food, and medical care. But, you can sure have your guns and Bibles. And, I suppose you can not be a special rich snowflake or use the delusion that Average Joe can actually be the guy and do the crap you don't want to if you don't have unemployment and being thrown in a ditch if you get sick to "motivate" him. Yeah, the Mexicans are smart. the farmers are abusive, low paying jerks. But, due to exchange rates, a few years at 7.50 USD an hour you can buy a house south of the border. It would be like Canada having plentiful, monotonous, anyone qualifies jobs for 40 USD an hour. Durn straight a lot would be crossing any kind of border for that if the only jobs in the US were being pimped out by Ronald McDonald or Labor Ready.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 02:57:24 AM
LANguage.

True, but still.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on September 04, 2015, 03:02:12 AM
Quote
Someone doesn't remember McCarthyism...

Yes I do. MyCarthy was right. Most of the  were communists.
Just take a look at today, communists are in charge.

(1) There's very little evidence that anyone McCarthy accused of being a communist was, in fact, a communist. (2) Being a communist is not against the law. (3) McCarthyism was a period when the government actively attempted to censor speech and stop freedom of association. So, you know, my irony-meter just broke.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 04, 2015, 03:37:25 AM
Quote
Being a communist is not against the law.

True. But in my neck of the woods, we actually have wingnuts that believe sincerely that the Constitution should only apply if you are Christian, rich, and preferably some kind of business owner. Thank goodness lunatics like Bobby Jindal (governor of LA) did not get traction.

I try not to go all conspiracy theory, but there are powerful wings of the RepubliCAN'Ts that I think seriously aim for the goal of a cheap, uneducated workforce and anyone who "questions" or engages in "unsanctioned" capitalism like drugs that compete with BigMed like selling pot should be locked in slave plantations. And, anything like public transit or even Planned Parenthood free clinics for STD tests is being "unAmerican" and needs to be replaced with a "free market solution". In other words: ass, grass, or cash. But, take these pills that doc charges 300 USD for instead.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 03:43:50 AM
[winces]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 04, 2015, 03:50:57 AM
[winces]

Oh, come on BU. You know you want to see Donald [Sleezebag] and Bernie Sanders in a steel cage.

It would beat the same tired Clinton/Bush oligarchy trend of the last decade or so.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 03:56:03 AM
No, I want the Pig banned from public, and agree with what you said, if not all your terminology.

-But language aside, you come close to a dynamic tension I see in the system that drives 90% of everything in our system.  The gub'ment basically wants to make us slaves.

Thing is, the Bossmen want to make us slaves, little basically about it.

-And the smart citizen playing the smart play, seeks to encourage the gub'ment to keep the Bossmen off us.  It's one of the things gub'ment is actually good at, when it's inclined to do it's job.  -Of course, we don't want either brand of teh Man to ever completely win, for what's to stop the victorious side from getting on with the enslaving?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 04, 2015, 04:21:07 AM
But the gub'ment is only a facade. The actual leaders themselves have little impact on us, all in all.

There was a famous New York chef named Anthony Bourdain that once said "never be a chef for a restaurant that has the owner's name on the front of the building." The problem is, if you are rich, you do not necessarily have to have social skills or even care. If your wealth requires someone with that, you hire someone with that ability. They don't like it, you fire them. Some worker offends you at the Hilton? Call the manager and have them make the worker face homelessness because you have money and the employee was not subservient. You have zero need to be insightful, compassionate, or even care as long as you smack down anything that threatens you and don't mess up too bad.

We don't have to wait to be enslaved because many of us are already there. Just because there are no tanks and soldiers out, does not mean you are not being occupied. If that was not the case, tell me. Where are the cops? They are in the working class neighborhoods inprisoning folks by the thousands enforcing laws I know the people themselves would never approve of. You never see them at the country club frisking folks even though just as much crime is in the 'burbs. And, worse, enforcing laws the general population does not like.

The country is like the restaurant Bourdain was talking about. The business owners make the rules and have the lobby. And, even if you wake up and realize you outnumber them, they can adjust things to make it irrelevant.  The "Gub'mint" you speak of is just a head on a TV screen to sell Tampon commercials.

But, I still believe it is possible to create pockets of sanity. But that requires a huge paradigm shift from where we are now. We need to seriously reconsider how we handle property and resources. And "He who has the gold" many times do not have the best interests of folks at heart. Sometimes they even have contempt. But, those who benefit the most won't like it.

Best we can hope for is compromise and try to maneuver to more favorable places, if those options are not blocked off.  But, dwelling on this kind of stuff you can not control only leads to madness and a victim mentality. Still, it is fun to comment on the dog and pony show.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 04:26:57 AM
That last sentence is certainly something Uno has been talking about.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 04, 2015, 04:35:57 AM
No, I want the Pig banned from public

That would be a horrible precedent.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 04, 2015, 05:10:31 AM
No, I want the Pig banned from public

That would be a horrible precedent.
Not officially, of course; what Geraldo said about OJ after he got away with it - shun him.  Everyone avoid him, refuse to speak to him, do not do business with him.  -You'll note that I avoid saying his name.  Everyone can play.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 05, 2015, 12:20:34 AM
Let me see if I've got The Shrew's quote right tonight....

"State has everything it needs to have. I'm sorry that this has been confusing to people , but there are answers to these questions, and I will survive these answers."


Thanks for clearing that up for us , Hillary, so that you can put it all behind.

Translation- "I gave the department I was working for everything it needed to know. I refuse to speak to the information given to the FBI on the grounds that I might incriminate myself. I'm sorry this is distracting from the glory I deserve on the way to being anointed and crowned as the leader of the world. I thought I could dodge the questions altogether by merely deflecting them. I'm not going to tell you that I'm innocent. I'm not going to answer them. I want you to like me and trust me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 05, 2015, 11:43:29 AM
Quote
Being a communist is not against the law.

Treason is.
Quote
McCarthyism was a period when the government actively attempted to censor speech and stop freedom of association. So, you know, my irony-meter just broke.

Thats amusing actually. The left has always been big on censorship. Just try saying a forbidden word in public
and see what happens. Say goodbye to your career if your lucky. In Europe you go to jail.
Or try and actually voice a heretical political opinion on a university campus and see how long that lasts before the local anti-fa come after you. McCarthyism was an attempt to stop the communists from "the long march through the institutions" and it failed.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 05, 2015, 12:04:17 PM
It certainly failed.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 05, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
Quote
It certainly failed.

Yes it did. And our country is essentially destroyed because of it.
Now were going to get the backlash.
Title: Bernie Sanders joins a picket line in Cedar Rapids
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 05, 2015, 04:03:19 PM
Quote
Bernie Sanders joins a picket line in Cedar Rapids
The Washington Post
By John Wagner September 4 at 10:26 PM



CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa -- Sen. Bernie Sanders, who's been a fierce voice for the working class on the presidential campaign trail, put some action behind his words Friday, joining a picket line outside a factory here.

Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont, marched with workers at the Penford Products plant, which produces potato starches, and where the union that represents them is locked in a bitter contact dispute with a new out-of-state owner.

"We are sick and tired of the war against working families," Sanders told scores of workers who gathered in a park next to the plant following the informational picket.

Echoing his lines on the campaign trail, Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, decried "corporate greed," adding: "That's what we're seeing here. ... We have got to stand together and tell this company that greed is not acceptable."

Workers at the plant, represented by the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers Union Local 100G, are on the job without a contract but are threatening to strike if a deal is not reached with the new owner, Ingredion Inc.

Sanders's involvement in the local dispute comes as he and Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Democratic front-runner, are fighting for support among labor unions in Iowa and nationally.

Several of the participants in the picketing late Friday afternoon said Sanders's presence was a reminder of his authenticity on labor issues. Sanders has marched in solidarity with aggrieved workers throughout his career in politics, which includes stints in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives and as mayor of Burlington, Vt.

"Bernie has shown that it's not about talking the talk,"Chris Eby, Local 100G president, told the gathering Friday. "It's about walking the walk."

As they awaited Sanders's arrival, the picketers cycled through several chants, including, "Hey, hey, ho, ho, the war on workers has got to go." Sanders was handed a sign when his car drove up and took his place in the line.

The event, which came amid a three-day swing for Sanders in the first presidential nominating state, was still fresh on his mind when he appeared at a rally at nearby Coe College in Cedar Rapids on Friday evening.

"What is going on here is exactly what has been going on all over the country," Sanders said, suggesting the labor dispute was among the reasons the country needs "a political revolution."

[Sanders draws more than 2,500 to Iowa stop — tops for this presidential cycle so far]

The rally, which college officials estimated drew 2,000 people, was one of the largest this cycle in Iowa. The largest to date remains a Sanders rally in Council Bluffs in July that was said to have attracted 2,500 people, including many from just across the state line in Nebraska.

Sanders's current Iowa trip, which began Thursday, is his first since a new poll showed him drawing close to Clinton in the state.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/04/bernie-sanders-joins-a-picket-line-in-cedar-rapids/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/04/bernie-sanders-joins-a-picket-line-in-cedar-rapids/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 01:33:07 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders joins a picket line in Cedar Rapids

Bernie Sanders is never getting near the white house.
As soon as the black lives matter protestors took over his event
and forced him off his own podium he was done.
Just drop out and get it over with.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 01:49:03 AM
...You being such a careful thinker w/o bias, I'll be sure to take your word for it...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 02:36:08 AM
And your being rude, condescending and arrogant.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 06, 2015, 02:41:33 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders joins a picket line in Cedar Rapids

Bernie Sanders is never getting near the white house.
As soon as the black lives matter protestors took over his event
and forced him off his own podium he was done.
Just drop out and get it over with.

Hey, even if he can't win that doesn't mean he can't do damage to the establishment in the process of losing...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 06, 2015, 04:23:04 AM
...You being such a careful thinker w/o bias, I'll be sure to take your word for it...
And your being rude, condescending and arrogant.
These particular comments appear whenever BUncle and vonbach start discussing issues that are political in nature.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 06, 2015, 04:33:58 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders joins a picket line in Cedar Rapids

Bernie Sanders is never getting near the white house.
As soon as the black lives matter protestors took over his event
and forced him off his own podium he was done.
Just drop out and get it over with.

Remember, though election before last. Hilary was decimating everyone when Obama started pulling way ahead. Then, Obama started creaming it with a populist message. Was some kind of back room deal that election made between them? Who knows? She did get Secretary of State, though.

Hilary may have her 3rd wave feminist men haters who complain they can not drink in the 19th hole at the country club that they play bridge at, but the feminist movement is getting pretty overcrowded with zealots. Other than abortion rights, there is some really messy things coming out of that camp. Stuff like greatly expanded definitions of rape and literally taking over some college campuses. Not exactly good bedfellows. So, the whole "OMGZZZ First Girl Prez! Grrrl Powerrrr" factor is kind of moot just because of the vague association with that for any except those in bureaucratic social work.

Now, they are really harping on those emails. But, how many folks have used the company email for personal stuff? Not exactly genius move, but I do not think it is enough to sink her. But, her evasive talk about it makes her appear a bit like she is hiding something, even if she is not and just wishing it would go away.

Now, you are right. The Clinton machine is far reaching. Much further than Bernie's. But is it enough to overcome the vague untrustworthiness and no real message except to quote a Political Correct handbook? [Sleezebag] will stomp her with just his brunt force.

Bernie at least has the message, but Clinton had name recognition. My crystal ball is cracked, but as Sanders gets mentioned more, this could become hard to predict. This war is far from over with the Democrats. But, the good money would be on Hilary. She knows every crook from Arkansas to New York.

The Republicans however have basically anointed [Sleezebag] barrring Jeb Bush pulling out some card or [Sleezebag] really messing up which will not happen. Bush suffers from the fact a lot of people could not stand his brother. [Sleezebag] could take a dump on the toilet and forget to wipe and still come up with some BS about it making him look cool.

This election could be bad...

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 07:14:37 AM
Hillary is never getting elected either. The reason is simple no one likes her.
Every time she opens her mouth people wince. The Hillary campaign has
been trying to keep her out of public functions as much as possible.
Bill Clinton knew how to work a crowd she cant. She also has an unbelievable
amount of baggage and enemies. There aren't enough liberal cat ladies to get her elected.


Quote
Bernie at least has the message,
Bernie is done. All anyone has to do is play that clip of him getting
bullied off his own stage and its over. The Democrats will end up finding someone else to run
against [Sleezebag].

Quote
The Republicans however have basically anointed [Sleezebag] barrring Jeb Bush pulling out some card or [Sleezebag] really messing up which will not happen.

Jeb is wasting his time, no one wants more Bushes in the white house. Even though Obama did something
no one ever though possible. He actually makes W Bush look good in comparison. Jeb has all the Bush baggage
and he's so pro illegals he might as well be running for the Mexican presidency.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 01:58:22 PM
You were doing so well until you brought up Bakrama.


Sanders has a big, huge, thing going for him: Anyone But Hillary.  She campaigns like Al Gore in a dress, only with even less charisma and sincerity.  All he has to do to -at worst- not get humiliated is continue to be Bernie Sanders, emphasizing experience and competence, not screw up, and he's going to make a credible showing automatically.

ABH. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 03:48:22 PM
Quote
You were doing so well until you brought up Bakrama.

Heh. He's  the best thing to happen to the Republican party in a hundred years.
He's done more to galvanize the  Republican base than anyone else in history.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 04:04:31 PM
He's a bland disappointment going about his presidency in a bland, spineless way.

If it isn't because he's -technically- black, I can't figure out why very nearly 100% of the right has been living in a fantasy world regarding this moderate with so little fight in him.  Conservatives I otherwise respect and find worth listening to -again, nearly 100% of them- talk utter fantasy nonsense when it comes to him.

There's something about the man that inspires the imagination on both sides; the "invisible Obama that only Republicans can see" -as Jon Stewart put it- has a rather christlike non-evil twin that only lefties ever saw - but they've been pretty disillusioned over the years since he took office, and you don't hear about him much at all anymore.

A lot of people WISH he was more like the evil version the right imagines.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 07:14:25 PM
Quote
moderate
Moderate?! How on earth can anyone call Barry Sotoro moderate.
He's a red diaper baby and practically a card carrying communist.
He's not even a citizen in any case.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 07:15:49 PM
...That right there's 100% fantasy...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 06, 2015, 07:30:25 PM
The Black Lives Matter thing is not a deal breaker either. Just like the emails.

As a Unitarian Universalist and with the possibility of uttering blasphemies, Black Lives Matter movement is an okay idea but once again is populated by racist zealots. If it were me, I would go more with "ALL lives matter" in that the chief deal of that movement is because law enforcement camps out in low income neighborhoods taking people for ransom and sometimes killing folks. In the south, this IS majority black, but there are places in the country where no black man lives for miles and the police still mess around in low income areas of any race. Even though there is just as much crime and drugs in the 'burbs and the country clubs, working class people are less expensive to get money or slave labor from for your for-profit prison. But Black Lives matter care only for racist agendas.

When faced with such zealots, you attack their religion. There is no discourse with them because they do not want to hear what you say. Bernie did right to walk away from an organized ploy, possibly organized by the Republican party. Remember the Obama Care town halls when Tea Party mooks would just waltz in yelling angry, incoherent stuff? Same principle. But, while Bernie's staffer did do a faux pas with the letter to BLM, think for a second. Why Bernie?  Why not established ambiguously racist folks like most of the Republican field? Look past a staged ploy just to punish anyone talking against rich people.

Just like professional wrestling, it is all an act. All the wrestlers are in on the act with a Jim McMahon type figure deciding the plotline according to ratings.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 07:48:12 PM
-But better at it than McMahon, who sucks at staging a good show.

Lee Atwater, on the other hand, was a gifted Sith Master with many acolytes who learned much and well at his feet.  -It is good that the Tea Party broke their control of party discipline like he had, but also sad; I do enjoy seeing artists at work, and they've been crap for almost a decade now.  Certainly still capable of pulling off what you speculate, given a little luck, though.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 06, 2015, 11:29:19 PM
I once asked a friend of mine why people single out Walmart for hate when Target is practically identical.  He replied, "Target's a little bit more expensive.  And it has better aesthetics.  Most liberal causes are about aesthetics."  As my friend is very liberal himself, I thought that was kinda funny.

Srsly, though.  Why does Walmart get so much more hate?  I don't know a lot about the facts of the controversy, this is open curiosity on my part.

(http://)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 06, 2015, 11:52:30 PM
Quote
Even though there is just as much crime and drugs in the 'burbs and the country clubs,


No there is not. Blacks commit more crimes than whites.
Quote
http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 06, 2015, 11:54:06 PM
von, I could go log onto Storm Front if I wanted to see that crap.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: BU Admin on September 06, 2015, 11:55:21 PM
Final warning.  Just don't mention race at all anymore.  Enough is enough.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 07, 2015, 12:07:43 AM
Even when just posting DOJ stats and the other poster mentioned race first huh?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 07, 2015, 12:23:24 AM
You know AC2's policy on rules-lawyering, don't you?  It's posted in Council Room, and you just compounded the offence further.

The other poster doesn't have a long string of offensive borderline-racist posts behind him, or me trying to talk him into cooling it many times over.  I want diversity, or I wouldn't put up with you, but no more race talk.  None.  You've used up your quota at AC2 forever.

Slander the president, slander the whole world, but don't let on you noticed anyone is brown or Jewish any. more.

Also?  I'm done with this conversation - my judgment is made, so move on, please, lest I take it as more rules-lawyering.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 07, 2015, 01:18:34 AM
Quote
Feel the Bern… Sanders Leads Hillary by 9 in New Hampshire
Socialist Bernie Sanders jumped ahead of Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire.
 The Vermont Socialist now leads the embattled former Secretary of State by 9 points.
The Gateway Pundit
Jim Hoft Sep 6th, 2015 12:20 pm


(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/sanders-free-stuff.jpg)



NBC News reported:

Quote
Bernie Sanders has jumped out to a nine-point lead over front-runner Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, and he’s gained ground on her among Iowa voters in the Democratic presidential race, according to a pair of brand-new NBC News/Marist polls.

In New Hampshire, the Vermont senator gets the support of 41 percent of Democratic voters, Clinton gets 32 percent and Vice President Joe Biden gets 16 percent. No other Democratic candidate receives more than 1 percent.

Back in July’s NBC/Marist poll, Clinton was ahead of Sanders in the Granite State by 10 points, 42 percent to 32 percent, with Biden at 12 percent.

Without Biden in the race, Sanders’ lead over Clinton in the current survey increases to 11 points, 49 percent to 38 percent.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/feel-the-bern-sanders-leads-hillary-by-9-in-new-hampshire/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/feel-the-bern-sanders-leads-hillary-by-9-in-new-hampshire/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on September 07, 2015, 03:10:58 AM
Is it possible for us to elect No President like the Hugos went No Award after puppygate?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 07, 2015, 03:13:28 AM
...I made a non-lazy political decision last time, given that the Weatherman didn't stand a chance, to not validate Bakrama with my vote again.  He failed the audition...

Not liking the looks of Senator Sanders?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 07, 2015, 03:54:09 AM
"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Donald [Sleezebag] remains the Republican frontrunner for president in Iowa and New Hampshire. But Ohio Gov. John Kasich continues to see a promising return on his investment in the latter, a new NBC News/Marist poll shows.

With support from 12 percent of GOP voters, Kasich is in second place behind [Sleezebag], who leads with 28 percent in the nation's first primary state.

Close on Kasich's heels is Ben Carson, the retired neurosurgeon, at 11 percent. Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush -- once viewed as the most likely nominee -- sits at 8 percent. Former tech executive Carly Fiorina, with 6 percent, is next."
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/09/john_kasich_sits_at_second_pla.html (http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/09/john_kasich_sits_at_second_pla.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 07, 2015, 05:18:41 PM
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2653.msg81183#msg81183 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2653.msg81183#msg81183)

Please discuss site policy there, not here, thank you.  Just felt like I ought to call attention.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2015, 03:35:11 AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-republicans-strongest-candidates-completely-203505529.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-republicans-strongest-candidates-completely-203505529.html)

One of the Republicans' strongest candidates is completely imploding

"Some of the things that he and other candidates are doing to try to associate themselves with positions being taken by [Sleezebag] or other more 'exciting' candidates are hurting them, though," said veteran Republican strategist Liz Mair, who briefly worked for Walker's campaign. "Why vote for the guy perceived as the copycat or watered-down version of something as opposed to the real deal?"

In a May Bloomberg Politics/Des Moines Register poll, Walker led the field with 17% of the Republican vote. The same poll taken in August found that his support has been cut in half, with only 8% of likely Republican caucus-goers saying that they still support the governor.

That puts him in a distant third to [Sleezebag] and Carson, who lead the field in the state with 23% and 18%, respectively. It's a far cry from the months of February through mid-July, when he led every public poll of Iowa except one. "

*********************************************************************

Iowa is a neighbor state to Wisconsin. It was his stronghold. The Walker people are spinning it as the influx of new people in support of non-traditional cadidates are diluting his support, not that his support has softened.

I'm not so sure. His support as governor has softened. I think that's because when he campaigned for re-election as governor, he re-assured us he was going to govern. But his January state of the state address sounded like a presidential campaign kick-off, complete with stuff about the Middle East. We haven't seen much of him since, except to sign the budget deal, and appear at the state fair last month.

I'll stand by what I said after the FOX debate. I think his no abortions, no exceptions, not even for the life of the mother, policy is too harsh, even by Republican standards. Likewise, he would have us at war again in Iraq right now, and building up to fight in Iran and the Ukraine. That might be a bit much, too.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 08, 2015, 12:22:22 PM
There is a reason the Repubs want no abortions and as few social support structures as they can get away with without open unrest. The Republicans are a loose consortium of anarcho-capitalist fringe libertarians, business moguls in fields that have monotonous low paying jobs, fundy religious rural folks, real estate folks, banks, and stock market gamblers.

If abortions or support structures in general, particularly at young age, are available and affordable you can not be as easily screwed into accepting just any kind of job because you have a kid. If no social programs are out there, you will only be at the mercy of Big Charity and churches.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 08, 2015, 01:00:57 PM
Quote
There is a reason the Repubs want no abortions

Yes the reason is abortion is murder and should be treated as such.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 08, 2015, 02:31:33 PM
Quote
There is a reason the Repubs want no abortions

Yes the reason is abortion is murder and should be treated as such.

Then why do we not have funerals for miscarriages?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 02:33:07 PM
For that matter, every time a sexually-active woman with an IUD has her period?

-I thought the same thing.-
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 08, 2015, 03:01:49 PM
More seriously. It seems that in the conservative world if you are a fetus you are worth something. Does not matter rape. Does not matter medical need. Does not matter screwing your life. No person in their right mind would use this expensive, surgical procedure as a sole means of birth control. But, once you plop out and you are poor, screw you.

Plus, if you make 8/hr with no insurance you are not going to be able to afford birth control. The 20 something sorority girl will.

I remember some dude years ago that claimed he was going to adopt all the fetuses in Louisiana. Turns out that in addition to the facts that fetuses are not persons and if they were there is still that pesky consent he was behind on child support to his ex-wives.

Once again, a disconnect with reality.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 03:20:04 PM
I once lived with a guy who was decidedly one of those Reagan Southern Baptists, which makes him sound a little worse than he was - he proved actually not a complete waste of time arguing with occasionally.  I asked him once, and he wasn't the first I've asked, "Why do Republicans want to save all the fetuses and kill all the convicts?"  He shot back instantly with the closest to a good answer to that one I've ever gotten - "Why do liberals want to save the guilty and kill the innocent?"

-Neither position is exactly christlike y'know.


Years later, in a renfair participant parking lot, I saw a car copiously bumper-stickered with both anti-death penalty AND anti-abortion stuff.  I agree wholeheartedly with neither, but I poked around and found the owner and shook his hand - it's a consistent position -which you almost never see on those issues- and people who've thought for themselves and come up with something not crazy/stupid are too rare, and to be encouraged.  Good for him. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 08, 2015, 03:36:35 PM
I once lived with a guy who was decidedly one of those Reagan Southern Baptists, which makes him sound worse than he was - he proved actually worth arguing with occasionally.  I asked him once, and he wasn't the first I've asked, "Why do Republicans want to save all the fetuses and kill all the convicts?"  He shot back instantly with the closest to a good answer to that one I've ever gotten - "Why do liberals want to save the guilty and kill the innocent?"

Neither position is exactly christlike y'know.


Years later, in a renfair participant parking lot, I saw a car copiously bumper-stickered with both anti-death penalty AND anti-abortion stuff.  I agree wholeheartedly with neither, but I poked around and found the owner and shook his hand - it's a consistent position -which you almost never see on those issues- and people who've thought for themselves are to be encouraged.  Good for him. ;nod

A liberal who was adopted would have that opinion. It is not that uncommon and has some merit.

Unfortunately, there are some people you need to put down fo the good of society. BUT... not more people in jail than the whole population of some small countries just for one state!

And, what they do not tell you about adoption is there is no unwanted baby. There are waiting lists and extreme background checks for even special needs babies of unfashionable types. But, its a pain in the ass and to be honest, someone would have to have strong faith or convictions or a lot of cash to go through giving up a baby after carrying it. Selling babies I believe is illegal (with the exception of adoption agency fees. But none to birth mom), so it is easier if stuff messes up to abort. If not expensive as hell and maybe dangerous because of zealots parked 24/7 in front of the place.

As far as the liberal "save the convict, kill the innocent", that is not entirely accurate. It is more like "create helpless victims so we can pimp them out for lay out desk jobs but do nothing to solve the root of the problem so we can have security." But, even the conservatives do that. Salvation Army anyone? If it come to the director's payment on his McMansion and those dudes eating more than chicken broth and the employees paid, who wins? But, they seem to have the money to lobby.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 03:42:33 PM
...I didn't say he was right, exactly, and it was a non-answer of the "but YOU guys" sort that righties love to make themselves obnoxious with, absolving themselves of all responsibility for their own shortcomings - but he did have a valid point, nonetheless...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 08, 2015, 03:45:01 PM
For that matter, every time a sexually-active woman with an IUD has her period?

That's not a good example, since then it never reached the point where it can then go all the way to birth without any further conscious action.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 03:53:41 PM
IUDs cause fertilized eggs to not attach to the uterine lining, or be rejected or something.  It's an induced semi-natural miscarriage/abortion that washes out with her period.

If you don't know for sure when God attaches a soul and it becomes a person, you sorta have to assume either conception or birth, yes?  QED.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 08, 2015, 03:55:10 PM
IUDs cause fertilized eggs to not attach to the uterine lining, or be rejected or something.  It's an induced semi-natural miscarriage/abortion that washes out with her period.

If you don't know for sure when God attaches a soul and it becomes a person, you sorta have to assume either conception or birth, yes?  QED.

Or "conception that, if no further action is taken, can lead to birth".
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
That's moral compromising, isn't it?  It's an induced abortion, and it's murder if you think a fertilized egg is a person.  Is it moving the goalpost for your own convenience to come up with a soul-attachment ANYwhere in the middle?

-I happen to actually take a stance very close to what I think you mean -the second the baby has a better than 50% chance of surviving a caesarian, it gets murder-y to abort- and am sorta just exploring the philosophical underpinnings.  Scripture talks about souls a lot, but doesn't actually define them or provide details...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 08, 2015, 04:43:24 PM
That's moral compromising, isn't it?  It's an induced abortion, and it's murder if you think a fertilized egg is a person.  Is it moving the goalpost for your own convenience to come up with a soul-attachment ANYwhere in the middle?

The question of where the soul-attachment happens is a complicated one, and I don't think there's really a clear argument against any non-arbitrary position...and "after the last required conscious activity to create a person" is certainly not arbitrary.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 04:45:44 PM
-We really need a few paragraphs from God on what a soul is and, more to the point, what a person is...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
The life and soul at conception crew will point out that birth control pills don't prevent fertilization, they prevent survival.

In the current millennium, I'm inclined to use the beating heart standard for the beginning and ending of human life. Not as fine a standard as thinking, but it's a lot more definitive. I don't like the state-imposed death penalty, either.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 07:36:44 PM
I don't like any of it, but can't be sure what should be Law - it's a convicted person's duty to be out preaching against sin, for sure.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 08, 2015, 07:43:12 PM
I like all of it, so there. 

Pro Choice and kill the criminals.  In fact, none of this 20 years death row crap.  1 appeal and be warming up the chair during the trial. 

I think there's untapped potential in PPV executions as well. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 07:44:15 PM
And the baby-killing?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 08, 2015, 07:52:49 PM
What of it?  Gots no problem with abortion.  IMO, that is between the mother and her god.   

I'd take a slightly modified stance to Rusty's heartbeat though.  TECHNICALLY the heart starts beating something like 4 days after conception, which is practically no time, and some people will cry foul at that stage.  It starts circulating blood at about 6 weeks after gestation, and seems as reasonable a cutoff as any to me, with allowances for special circumstances.   


That said, there's a fantastic horror short about all the babies a doctor aborted coming back to visit him on Halloween, their treat buckets the buckets he sloshed them into during the operation...I could find the title swiftly if anyone's interested. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 08:01:32 PM
Okay; I respect the consistency of the stance.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 08, 2015, 08:51:07 PM
You'll find my stance on pretty much EVERYTHING religiously based is it shouldn't be against THE LAW. 

Against my personal religion/code/etc DOES NOT mean I should advocate that it be against THE LAW.  My belief in my right to practice my own religion is only as strong as my belief in YOUR right to practice YOURS.  Therefore I have no qualms being, sometimesl literally, devil's advocate in defending someone's right to do something I might find "sinful". 

Same goes for free speach. 

If you truly believe in Freedom of Religion/Speach, you are REQUIRED to defend the right of those that use it in ways you find repugnant. 

As for the Death Penalty:

Legally, it's horribly broken right now, I'll happily concede.  I don't think the argument to do away with it because thou shalt not kill is valid.  The argument that it costs more than life with no parole is countered by my one appeal and death following verdict counter.  This brings it back into the realm of deterrent it was originally meant for, and is hella lot cheaper than life/no parole.  In fact, I'd argue there should be no life/no parole and a hell of a lot more executions.  I don't see the reasoning behind life/no parole as anything other than making someone get warm fuzzies based on their religion.  Society benefits none that I can see.  Makes no sense to give convicts room and board when hunger is still an issue.  I'd be happy going so far as modifying the old joke into "feed the convicts to the hungry" as a potential solution if hunger REALLY becomes a crisis...


As for Abortion:

Soul/etc is an invalid argument legally. 

The heartbeat is as good an indicator as any arbitrarily chosen criteria, though I'd say note heart fully formed as above. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 08:57:40 PM
You'll find my stance on pretty much EVERYTHING religiously based is it shouldn't be against THE LAW. 

Against my personal religion/code/etc DOES NOT mean I should advocate that it be against THE LAW.  My belief in my right to practice my own religion is only as strong as my belief in YOUR right to practice YOURS.  Therefore I have no qualms being, sometimesl literally, devil's advocate in defending someone's right to do something I might find "sinful".
I believe I tried to more-or-less say that a few posts up.  If you're convicted that something's wrong, persuading others of it is your moral duty - and far more effective than laws, frankly, if you pull it off.

This has been the FUNDAMENTAL error of the political church people for my entire political adulthood.  They harm the church by making themselves obnoxious - pissing the cost of their moral activism away dabbling in affairs that are Ceasar's not God's, and thus doing their duty wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 08, 2015, 09:00:56 PM
Maybe, I can't read everything right now.  editted above, btw. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 09:03:46 PM
Me too.  Last post is three times longer now, but should explain better.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2015, 09:45:33 PM
You'll find my stance on pretty much EVERYTHING religiously based is it shouldn't be against THE LAW. 

Against my personal religion/code/etc DOES NOT mean I should advocate that it be against THE LAW.  My belief in my right to practice my own religion is only as strong as my belief in YOUR right to practice YOURS.  Therefore I have no qualms being, sometimesl literally, devil's advocate in defending someone's right to do something I might find "sinful". 

Same goes for free speach. 

If you truly believe in Freedom of Religion/Speach, you are REQUIRED to defend the right of those that use it in ways you find repugnant. 

As for the Death Penalty:

Legally, it's horribly broken right now, I'll happily concede.  I don't think the argument to do away with it because thou shalt not kill is valid.  The argument that it costs more than life with no parole is countered by my one appeal and death following verdict counter.  This brings it back into the realm of deterrent it was originally meant for, and is hella lot cheaper than life/no parole.  In fact, I'd argue there should be no life/no parole and a hell of a lot more executions.  I don't see the reasoning behind life/no parole as anything other than making someone get warm fuzzies based on their religion.  Society benefits none that I can see.  Makes no sense to give convicts room and board when hunger is still an issue.  I'd be happy going so far as modifying the old joke into "feed the convicts to the hungry" as a potential solution if hunger REALLY becomes a crisis...


As for Abortion:

Soul/etc is an invalid argument legally. 

The heartbeat is as good an indicator as any arbitrarily chosen criteria, though I'd say note heart fully formed as above.

Well, I didn't know that the heart started before it had a purpose. I accept your point.

Actually I can respect all of it. I just come at it from a don't trust the state with power bias/approach. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, sanctioned murder can become sanctioned mass murder, kind of thing. Life sentences aren't just for violent sociopaths, they're for people caught in the convergence of 3 strikes and you're out/ the war on drugs.

So, it's not that I find Uno's approach unreasonable or impractical  so much as I don't trust the state with where it will lead.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 08, 2015, 09:47:26 PM
Quote
don't think the argument to do away with it because thou shalt not kill is valid.

Its "though shalt not murder" not though shalt not kill. Murder is the killing of the innocent.
Killing of those guilty of capital crimes is not only lawful in the Bible its required.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 08, 2015, 10:34:52 PM
Quote
don't think the argument to do away with it because thou shalt not kill is valid.

Its "though shalt not murder" not though shalt not kill. Murder is the killing of the innocent.
Killing of those guilty of capital crimes is not only lawful in the Bible its required.

Equally invalid to the argument at hand, and open to interpretation.

Quote
Life sentences aren't just for violent sociopaths, they're for people caught in the convergence of 3 strikes and you're out/ the war on drugs.

The purpose of a Life sentence is to remove the person from society.  I don't much care the reasoning.  There's a much more efficient and cost effective means to remove someone from society.  Really, what PURPOSE does a life sentence serve?  Society has admitted they can't be rehabilitated at that point.  We're done with them, it's time to let God sort it out.  Prisons just got a lot roomier, that's X# years of meals can go to the hungry, etc. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 11:15:10 PM
Hey Rusty - this is natural progression and relevant to the topic of the thread, really, but tell me when and where to split off into its own thread, if you like, title: "Thou shalt not kill and th' gub'ment".
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 08, 2015, 11:42:15 PM
Are we all comfortable with my observation that there are people in this world better off not in this world and the world better off without?  Unforgivably bad people are a thing.

But here's where I am on what to do with them: I'm not throwing the switch, and ethically, I may not ask anyone to do it for me - or condone having it done on my behalf.

Also what Rusty said.  The gub'ment not only wants to make us slaves, it's a bloodthirsty mega mass murderer with no intention of ever. stopping. killing.  Governments are that way, along with the inevitable bureaucracy and oppression; it's only a matter of when, not if, they get carried away.

So I say no.  But I say it with much reservation and regret.

But we are wealthy enough, strong enough, and moral enough to lock the animals away and treat them better than they deserve while they wait to die of old age.

That's where I stand on the death penalty.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 09, 2015, 01:44:44 AM
It's rather political, stemming from Walker's ( can we call it extreme?) position on abortion.
It also kinda weaves into the county clerk from Kentucky who was just released from jail today, in the presence of Mike Huckabee and Cruz ( I think ). Her lawyer is asserting that the marriage licenses issued in her absence are invalid. The Governor says the opposite.

Her supporters claim it's a matter of religious freedom.

If a county clerk were denying marriage licenses to all women without Birkas, because they offended the clerk's religious beliefs, would the same people support her?

Or would they say the clerk was abusing their office to impose their religious beliefs upon the public, in clear violation of the non-establishment clause of the First Amendment?





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on September 09, 2015, 01:54:43 AM
Are we all comfortable with my observation that there are people in this world better off not in this world and the world better off without?  Unforgivably bad people are a thing.

Absolutely not. It's quite possible there are people we don't currently have the resources/expertise to make net positives to society, but that's as far as I'll go. Forgiveness and evil and all that jazz are not things I think the government should have any hand in.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 09, 2015, 01:57:17 AM
That's a respectable/moral stance.

It's rather political, stemming from Walker's ( can we call it extreme?) position on abortion.
It also kinda weaves into the county clerk from Kentucky who was just released from jail today, in the presence of Mike Huckabee and Cruz ( I think ). Her lawyer is asserting that the marriage licenses issued in her absence are invalid. The Governor says the opposite.

Her supporters claim it's a matter of religious freedom.

If a county clerk were denying marriage licenses to all women without Birkas, because they offended the clerk's religious beliefs, would the same people support her?

Or would they say the clerk was abusing their office to impose their religious beliefs upon the public, in clear violation of the non-establishment clause of the First Amendment?
Depends on whether they love America and its principals.  Cruz and Huckabee claim they do, but they don't seem to love the Constitution of the United States of America - and it's far from just them, in the last 15 years.  It's a package deal, knuckleheads.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 09, 2015, 02:01:43 AM
Wait; I gotta repeat that, with SFX for due emphasis:


America and its Constitution: It's a package deal, knuckleheads.

Released into the public domain; start printing those bumperstickers now.

Nazis get SO mad when you use their own language against them.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 09, 2015, 02:19:17 AM
But we are wealthy enough

STRONGLY disagree on this particular point.  When we curb homelessness and hunger, I'll agree we're wealthy enough to house and feed criminals for their entire life.  Till then, I'll favor spending that money elsewhere and throwing the switch.  As for who gets to throw it, I'd place odds you could raffle that honor off to help pay for court costs. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 09, 2015, 02:21:24 AM
I cannot condone that.

And we aren't failing to cure homelessness and hunger because we're skint.  We can afford it, all right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 09, 2015, 02:32:01 AM
I cannot condone that.

Most can't.  Well aware I'm odd.  I've long had the ability to separate my emotions on things of this nature, or pretty much whenever I need to. 

Quote
And we aren't failing to cure homelessness and hunger because we're skint.  We can afford it, all right.

Believe it when I see it. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 09, 2015, 02:40:23 AM
Hey hey HEY!  Slow down a second there, Tex.  I never said we WOULD.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 10, 2015, 05:42:15 AM
Here's the more SMAC appropriate version-

(http://)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 01:32:40 PM
America and its Constitution: It's a package deal, knuckleheads.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 02:29:43 PM
I believe I'll post this on stupid Facebook and see if I can't start something...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 03:07:31 PM
PATRIOTISM


Ideas have unshakeable power, so share this as hard as you can share.

This country has STOOD for some noble and wonderful ideas, been a light of democracy to the world, and we've made commendable progress in grappling with our collective shortcomings with prejudice and related unfairness in my lifetime. 

-But we took a very wrong, un-American, track 14 years ago, and haven't ruptured ourselves getting off it since.  Torture isn't the American way.  Indefinite imprisonment without due process isn't the American way.  Surveilling citizens, discriminating against citizens, killing citizens - it's just wrong.  We are rich and we are strong -and we used to STAND for something- and we don't NEED to spoil a good thing stooping to those measures.

It's just not the American Way; and if you love America, you shouldn't condone it.  You should not SIT STILL for it.  YOU SHOULD NOT STAY SILENT IN THE FACE OF BIGOTS AND TYRANTS who only THINK they love America.


DO YOUR DUTY, AMERICANS.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960554810652983&set=a.960554750652989.1073741831.100000954193838&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960554810652983&set=a.960554750652989.1073741831.100000954193838&type=3&theater)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 04:26:13 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960579800650484&set=pb.100000954193838.-2207520000.1441898404.&type=3&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960579800650484&set=pb.100000954193838.-2207520000.1441898404.&type=3&permPage=1)

I'd like to do more versions with 'love its Ideals' (-Liberty- -Equality- -Freedoms- etc), but that starts making it too easy to pervert to the opposite of my meaning; I'm not about to feed the Statists -and their ignorant dupes- who are the problem.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 10, 2015, 06:34:15 PM
I believe I'll post this on stupid Facebook and see if I can't start something...

Best of all, conservatives are just as likely, if not more so, to embrace it as liberals are.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 06:47:59 PM
Dude, I speak fluent conservative and that's the whole point of the style.  This is a smartbomb meme - I hope the liberals will spread it, but I didn't make it for them.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960710620637402&set=a.960554750652989.1073741831.100000954193838&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960710620637402&set=a.960554750652989.1073741831.100000954193838&type=3&theater)

[snickers]

Click on the attachment to see at 100%.  It's a lot crisper like that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 10, 2015, 09:38:55 PM
-Turns out the reason the tagging system is so clumsy on Facebook is, I surmise, so you can't name someone in a picture "Bigot" or worse.  I get it, but a shame this time, all the same...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 01:33:23 AM
Quote
Playing now, the Ben Carson show
Yahoo Politics
Matt Bai  National Political Columnist  ‎September‎ ‎10‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/12su6JzHOkT7ZpwNY6XqBQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzQ3O2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/6682d3eb84658a87c47c550cdeddb877bdd7649d.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson became an overnight hero to conservative commentators and activists. (Photo: Ross D. Franklin/AP)



One of my least favorite journalism clichés is what I like to call the trick lead. That’s the one where the crafty writer starts a piece by making you think he’s talking about one thing, when really he’s talking about another.

 The well-liked vice president badly wanted to run, but everyone knew the boss was behind his anointed successor, and the party was closing ranks fast.

Joe Biden in 2015? No! It was  Charles Fairbanks  in 1908!

You know, that kind of thing.

But if I actually were the kind of writer who would begin today’s column with a trick lead, it would go something like this:

The political neophyte has now surged to the top of the  polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, where he’s defying the expectations of pundits and establishing himself as a serious threat for the Republican nomination.

Donald [Sleezebag]? No! I’m talking about Ben Carson!


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/ceaFoplHaUhQovtNESgG9w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MTkx/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/6cdad63e5bb08c99fba1ddcb031ba9ce4f3501e6.gif)


If you haven’t been paying close attention to the non-[Sleezebag] Republican field this year — maybe because it’s a little like studying a “Where’s Waldo?” poster where everyone kind of looks like everyone else, except that no one is actually Waldo — then let me enlighten you.

Carson is a flat-out genius (even if he doesn’t believe in evolution). Raised by a single mother in Detroit and educated at Yale, he went on to medical school and became, at 33, the chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. Not long after, he led a team of doctors in the first-ever operation to divide twins who were joined at the head. Then he turned the spelling bee world upside down by successfully implanting the brain of an Oxford professor in the skull of a fourth grader.

OK, that last part is entirely made up. But you know he could if he really tried.

Carson has never held elective office, or even run. But as the legend goes, in 2013 he spoke at one of these National Prayer Breakfasts in Washington, where he denounced the health care law and liberal government generally while standing just a few feet from President Obama, and overnight he became a hero to conservative commentators and activists.

Heeding their call, he jumped into the presidential field last May and is now in second place and gaining on [Sleezebag] in Iowa. If you made me guess today, I’d say he probably wins the caucuses.

Oh, one other thing, in case you didn’t know: Carson is African-American.

It’s hard to square this with the Republican Party you hear about if you watch cable news (otherwise known these days as “[Sleezebag] TV”) or hang out much with urban liberals. Conservative ideologues are supposed to be race-baiting and enraged, fueled by nativism, resentment and a deep loathing of our first black president, who they insist is a Muslim.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Wm3bwWlvrrNaob23Qzwozg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/9e5240b4c4ecc30db33b85689121ebb122d1fd09.jpg)
A Carson supporter holds copies of his books as he speaks during the Iowa State Fair. (Photo: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)


Yet here is Carson, surging into second place in virtually all-white primary states, surpassing Jeb Bush and leaving archconservative candidates like Scott Walker and Rand Paul in the dust. And he’s not at all angry. While [Sleezebag] just about writhes with insecurity and calls everybody in politics an idiot, Carson projects an easy confidence and barely speaks above a whisper.

So how do we explain Carson’s appeal?

It’s not as if he has some incredibly creative agenda. Reading through the positions on Carson’s website is like spending a few hours at an amusement park called “Banal Land.” He’s pro-life, pro-balanced budget, pro-gun, pro-traditional marriage. On the one issue where he’s less than a reflection of accepted dogma, Carson supports a guest worker program for immigrants, which should hardly endear him to conservatives.

Carson doesn’t pretend to know very much about governing or foreign affairs in particular. His campaign manager, Barry Bennett, told the New York Daily News: “The man is a world-renowned brain scientist. … I think he can memorize a list of world leaders.” Which is kind of like Bobby Jindal saying, “Hey, I’m a Rhodes scholar. I’m pretty sure I can figure out how to surgically separate a couple of brains.”

Nor has Carson done anything special to seize his moment, in the way that Newt Gingrich took over the debate stage four years ago. For whatever reason, Carson was barely given a chance to speak at the first debate last month, and his only memorable moment came when he pointed that out.

No, what makes Carson compelling to a lot of people, clearly, is the power of his personal narrative. As I’ve written a few times recently, we live in a moment when, as the social critic Neil Postman predicted exactly 30 years ago, politics has merged fully into entertainment, when characters and story arcs have supplanted expertise and worldviews.

Much like candidate Obama, who cast himself at the center of an inspiring docudrama in 2008, Carson is running as the embodiment of a story we still like to tell ourselves about America — a story about enduring opportunity and equality, the triumph of parenting and will over circumstance and prejudice.

It’s the kind of stuff that makes for an emotional TV movie. In fact, it did! TNT aired “Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story” back in 2009. It starred Cuba Gooding Jr., of “Jerry Maguire” fame. Show me the cerebral cortex!

And in this way, Carson isn’t actually all that different from [Sleezebag], really. Their presentations bear no resemblance, but their appeal is rooted in the same cultural shift. [Sleezebag] is reality TV, explosive and unscripted. Carson is a miniseries, evocative and reaffirming.

There’s a danger in attaching such significance to inexperienced politicians, as we’ve learned. Obama spent too much of his presidency improvising a governing philosophy and figuring out how to deal with vast bureaucracies and recalcitrant adversaries. As much as Democrats may hate to hear it, the truth is that someone with more political experience would probably have found his footing a lot sooner.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/meKcYu1sHwhauW6f93WDDA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9Mzg3O2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/695c390f9a0913aa568b687404ff7b28ab8d42f7.jpg)
Carson is running as the embodiment of a story about the triumph of parenting and will over circumstance and prejudice. (Photo: Charlie Riedel/AP)


Carson seems like a good guy and a great mind, and if one of my kids ever needed brain surgery, I’d bang down a thousand doors just to get in a room with him. But that doesn’t mean I want him rushing to the Situation Room when some terrorist group in Pakistan makes off with a nuclear weapon.

And yet it’s hard to blame voters for seeking some inspiration, and some authenticity, when all these governing-ready politicians seem so much the opposite. It’s hard to begrudge them their penchant for a moving story when all they get from the leading establishment types, too often anyway, are platitudes and artifice.

It was embarrassing to watch this week as Hillary Clinton’s campaign aides, speaking to the New York Times’ Amy Chozick,  laid out  a methodical plan for her to be more spontaneous, without a hint of irony. “I can have a perfectly fine life not being president,” Clinton herself told ABC’s David Muir, which must have sounded bizarre to voters who consider lives with healthy families and stable careers to be a lot more than perfectly fine.

Candidates like Clinton and Bush have to be more than humanistic renderings of long résumés and safe policies meant to shore up one constituency or another. In the age of narrative politics, the governing candidate has to tell a story that resonates, too — about how the country can look in 20 years, about the sometimes wrenching choices we’ll have to make to get there, about how you transcend bitterness and entrenched ideology.

Carson’s narrative may not have a whole lot to do with governing the country. But, you know, at least it’s real.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/playing-now-the-ben-carson-show-128746591126.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/playing-now-the-ben-carson-show-128746591126.html)



He sounds like an admirable man who would make a terrible president and has no business even running.  -So of course they love him.  And I'll have to eat a lot of crow if the Republicans nominate him - any African-American, in fact, in the new two decades.  The reality is what it is and a generation will have to die off before there's any chance at all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 03:39:55 AM
Okay, somebody tell me WTF is going on with Huckabee?  I always had the impression that he wasn't all that bad.  Has he had a stroke, or is he gone full-McCain/desperate hooker and cynically courting the outright bigots, or fooled me all along, or what?

He told someone on the radio today that the Dred Scott decision was still the law of the land.  -So stupid, ignoramus, right of David Duke, pandering like a [prostitute] TO the David Dukes who like the Pig, all of the above, what?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 11, 2015, 04:03:12 AM
Okay, somebody tell me WTF is going on with Huckabee?  I always had the impression that he wasn't all that bad.  Has he had a stroke, or is he gone full-McCain/desperate hooker and cynically courting the outright bigots, or fooled me all along, or what?

He told someone on the radio today that the Dred Scott decision was still the law of the land.  -So stupid, ignoramus, right of David Duke, pandering like a [prostitute]TO the David Dukes who like the Pig, all of the above, what?

He was always like that. The constitution on applies if you are a Christian, rich rural business owner. Preferably not well educated. And when I mean not well educated, I mean drinking beer for four years at Arkansas State biding time to get VP at the family business after. No culture or social skills.

Thing is, there are vast areas of the country between the cities ruled by groups of people. Along with masses and the poor fighting and begging over to work for maybe 5 crappy families or companies (if  that) who think that behaving like them will some how make them rich and saved, too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 11, 2015, 04:05:17 AM
"Carson seems like a good guy and a great mind, and if one of my kids ever needed brain surgery, I’d bang down a thousand doors just to get in a room with him. But that doesn’t mean I want him rushing to the Situation Room when some terrorist group in Pakistan makes off with a nuclear weapon."

Well, I take issue with this.
Unlike the frontrunner, Carson seems to be a very humble and low key kinda guy, cool under pressure. I'm guessing calm and cool under pressure is a prerequisite for a brain surgeon, maybe I'm wrong about that. My dad has had brain surgery at least three times. I've met and heard tell of a lot of brain surgeons. One of them was the back-up brain surgeon for president Reagan.

It's merely a personal impression of mine, but knowing that a simple brain bleed can destroy brain tissue and lose memory or function forever, that sounds like a high pressure situation to me. More pressure than I'd care for.

Compared to several would be Holy Crusaders seeking the Republican nomination, and egos that don't back down from a urinating contest, right now I'm thinking I'd rather have a level-headed genius listening to the cabinet officers and making that decision. 

I do know that I really don't want the egocentric frontrunners from either party in that position.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 11, 2015, 04:15:33 AM
Okay, somebody tell me WTF is going on with Huckabee?  I always had the impression that he wasn't all that bad.  Has he had a stroke, or is he gone full-McCain/desperate hooker and cynically courting the outright bigots, or fooled me all along, or what?

He told someone on the radio today that the Dred Scott decision was still the law of the land.  -So stupid, ignoramus, right of David Duke, pandering like a [prostitute]TO the David Dukes who like the Pig, all of the above, what?

Well, I'm shocked myself. I had a similar impression. My take on it is that he sees himself as the voice of the Evangelical wing. But he has to compete with sons of evangelical clergy like Walker and Cruz, and with an openly religious fellow like Ben Carson, and Carson is vey admirable and quite likable. Huckabee is fading away, without a hope of being either a king or a kingmaker. I wouldn't doubt he's having fundraising troubles with this competition, too.

I think it's a last, desperate attempt to recover attention.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 04:45:42 AM
So full-McCain.  It makes a kind of sense - when you're stuck in back where nobody can see you you've got nothing to loose.

-When McCain went desperate hooker, that logic didn't apply, BTW.

Are these guys in a campaign bubble where they can't see how it looks, though?  I'd pass on a Sure Thing for Ruling the Universe before I'd show up at a God Hates Fags rally and then proclaim that Blacks Aren't Real Citizens later the same week. 

Cross Mike off the maybe list forever; unfit for public service/life of any kind. He's done.  ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 04:52:08 AM
-Rusty, how much of that is likes Carson and how much is looking like your guy so far.  You ain't got a good field of pickins at this point, unless the common Sith starts doing a lot better.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 11, 2015, 05:58:11 AM
Uh...
Right now my guy is still ANYBODY BUT HILLARY THE WEASEL LAWYER. My hopes are up.

He who won't be mentioned did it again today. He retaliated. Carson made a remark recently that questions the GOP frontrunner's  humility and faith. The retaliation belittled Carson as a doctor!

Really? The guy was career Johns Hopkins, the top hospital in the country. Not just a brain surgeon, but a guy who did surgery nobody had done before, and a department head. Truly outstanding as a doctor.

That's like trashing McCain over Viet Nam. Well, he got captured because he was fighting behind enemy lines. In order to do that you not only have to serve in the military in wartime, but you have to risk your life at or beyond the front lines.

Both of those incidents got my hackles up.
Our GOP frontrunner- Alienating voters one day at a time.

The more I hear from him, the more I appreciate and long for a candidate with character. I can't have Ron Paul, but I still like to daydream about a trustworthy president. I like and respect Carson.
But I also recall that Jimmy Carter was clearly the most moral president in my lifetime, but one of the worst of those ( I count) eleven, so that's probably not a good idea. I think good liars and poker players make better presidents, because their threats and promises are convincing.

If I had to choose a president from people who are presently on the poll radar, I'd choose Kasich.
I think he's rational and well-qualified. I think Ohio is a state that's representative of America. I think he'd be a competent president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 11, 2015, 06:10:24 AM
[Sleezebag] actually said something that made me laugh for a change.

In a last ditch effort, our Governor Jindal said [Sleezebag] was a "narcissist and egomaniac". True.

But [Sleezebag] replied he had never met him since he was not at the big kid debate. Plus he does not respond to those below 1 percent at the polls.

LOL!!

Good. Jindal is a cuss word at our house.  I am glad that bullet is dodged. Jindal is a nut and an utter incompetent. He fought gay marriage, cut half the hospitals, imprisoned thousands, and destroyed the economy of the state. Enough bad, I would need a manifesto to do justice, the idiocy. Jindal is so crazed, he had his Governor pic as him as white even though he is definitely not!  ::)

Dont believe me... Be glad this is one less Repulican nut:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 11, 2015, 06:53:55 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960579800650484&set=pb.100000954193838.-2207520000.1441898404.&type=3&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=960579800650484&set=pb.100000954193838.-2207520000.1441898404.&type=3&permPage=1)

I'd like to do more versions with 'love its Ideals' (-Liberty- -Equality- -Freedoms- etc), but that starts making it too easy to pervert to the opposite of my meaning; I'm not about to feed the Statists -and their ignorant dupes- who are the problem.
Okay. Posted to facebook. Not that I have many contacts, but some of my friends & family do. I'll keep you advised of the response.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 02:18:38 PM
;b;

I have a somewhat-related speech about ignorant dupes based on what I said to Mylochka at supper yesterday, but I want to wake up more first.



Oh lovely.  NPR just mentioned that it's Still Dead Day.   Let us not discuss it, but I was sick of that in 2003 2001.  Couldn't turn on the TV for about a week in September for years.



...I think Carson's a good man, Rusty.  He's really made a very good impression to the small extent I've paid attention, for all the he's behind a whole cluster of the usual social conservative positions I strongly disagree with.  He's looking like the adult in a roomful of clowns, which is what Romney had going for him last time.  -It stopped working when Romney was standing next to Bakrama instead of Gingrich, incidentally, or he'd have done a lot better.

But I think Bakrama is a very good man -with whom I agree much more often- who is not a good president.  He's bad for the opposite reason Dr. Carter was; Jimmy wouldn't compromise on anything, ever - Barry won't NOT compromise on anything ever.  Both extremes seem to get you hated.  Both fail at a basic extra-textual but fundamental duty of the President; leadership - and that's where Bakrama had the most potential to be good great, frustratingly enough.

I strongly emphasized the value of a proven record of experience and accomplishment in the OP when I tentatively endorsed Sanders.  I felt that way when our current president first ran, the author of the Carson article thinks the same, and I really wish more people did.  We don't need any presidents having a whit more steep a learning curve on day one than can be helped; there's never a safe time for that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 02:56:15 PM
...I just messaged the Sister Miriam's Sister image to Mr. Fun, A screaming wears-it-on-his-sleeve political homersexual, noting that the bumpersticker meme in the same album needed spreading, and something about subverting and destroying the Republican party that way.  His sort of mental illness is exactly what's needed on the job...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 11, 2015, 04:04:13 PM
Quote
Oh lovely.  NPR just mentioned that it's Still Dead Day.   Let us not discuss it, but I was sick of that in 2003 2001.  Couldn't turn on the TV for about a week in September for years.

Twas a conspiracy! 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
I wouldn't put ANYthing past the Cheney Bund at this late date, but they simply weren't ready to take advantage.  QED.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 11, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
Quote
FEC Implements One-Year Break Between All Presidential Terms As Reprieve For Weary Nation
The Onion  Vol 51 Issue 36  September 11, 2015


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5130/5/16x9/1200.jpg)
FEC officials say Americans will even receive a recuperative 12-month break in between the terms of a reelected president.



WASHINGTON—In an effort to address the frustration, fatigue, and utter despair felt by voters, the Federal Election Commission issued a directive Friday that mandates a break of one full year between each presidential term as a respite for the weary American people.

After enduring a presidential campaign cycle that can exceed two years, as well as ceaseless media coverage of whichever politician is currently occupying the nation’s highest post, citizens become so tired and depressed that, according to FEC officials, a president-free period of 12 months must be built into the calendar so the electorate has sufficient time to recover.

“The complaint we receive most frequently from voters is that they feel completely drained going through presidency after presidency without any kind of break,” said FEC chair Ann M. Ravel, explaining that the ideal for many citizens would be a year’s reprieve from all presidential press conferences, any photograph taken inside or outside the White House, or ever hearing the word “president” spoken aloud. “These off years will allow Americans to rest and regain their bearings before having to endure another four-year cycle of the same old photo ops, talking points, and stalemates with Congress.”

“That’s something that, we believe, everyone who has cast a presidential ballot has earned,” Ravel added.

Because it is too late to spare citizens from the campaign already in progress, government sources confirmed that the first year-long hiatus will take place in the year 2020. At that time, the FEC will ensure the Oval Office remains completely empty and will put a stop to all fundraising, polling, public speeches, reporting, opinion pieces, punditry, direct-mail solicitations, and television ads relating to any president or presidential candidate for 365 consecutive days.

Across the country, beleaguered and despondent Americans voiced their support for the FEC’s decision, saying they have spent their whole lives staring at an unending parade of faces of actual or would-be commanders-in-chief, with nowhere to turn to escape their slogans and carefully manicured personas. Many expressed hope that a year of recuperation will allow them not only to mentally recover somewhat, but also to steel themselves for the four years of State of the Union addresses, executive orders, and general presidential news coverage that will follow.

“Seeing all these TV and newspaper reports about whatever the current president just did or might do, hearing months and months of speculation about whether some guy’s gonna run or not—it will be the most amazing thing in the world to have a break from all that,” Columbus, OH resident Caroline Helling said. “I would love, absolutely love, to stop hearing a candidate’s sound bite on loop in the media, then hearing the other side overreacting and denouncing the sound bite, then seeing all the thinkpieces that come out about the overreaction, then having to go through the same [poop]all over again the next day.”

“It’ll be great to just power through the next few years and make it to this time off,” she continued. “As far as I can see, the only downside is that it’s going to be really hard to go back to having a president after we get a year away from it.”

Kent McNamara, a 52-year-old registered voter from Seattle, told reporters that when the Founding Fathers set forth the powers of the executive branch in Article Two of the Constitution, they never intended for the American presidency to become “this [intercourse gerund]exhausting for everybody.”

“You know, even when I like the president, I still need a break from all the bull[poop]that surrounds him,” McNamara said. “The automatic backlash to everything the president says, the manufactured scandals, the opposition’s refusal to let him accomplish anything worthwhile because they don’t want his party getting credit for it—it’s pretty much just as annoying having a president I like as it is having one I hate.”

“Jeez, maybe one year isn’t enough,” he added.

The FEC confirmed that if the presidential program works well, it plans to reduce the number of days each Congress is in session to five per year, eventually phasing it out altogether.
http://www.theonion.com/article/fec-implements-one-year-break-between-all-presiden-51295 (http://www.theonion.com/article/fec-implements-one-year-break-between-all-presiden-51295)



An absolute moratorium on campaigning, mentioning campaigning and speculating about campaigning for president until one (1) year before the election would satisfy me, and I'm not joking.  -It's one of those things unworkable (and utterly unconstitutional) as a rule/law that would take a societal consensus to work.

Repeat:  I'm not joking.  Absolutely everybody would prefer a one-year presidential campaign cycle to the perpetual campaign afflicting us all for over a decade now thanks to living in the future with cable news and magic communications tech.  That a reasonable-length cycle favors the well-funded is very unfortunate, but 'twouldn't be no change, now, would it?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 12, 2015, 12:29:39 AM
Well, Rick Perry is officially out.

Walker has faded to 3% in Iowa, that's 10th place, and he's the local guy.


Apparently what he's doing is working worse than what he was doing before. He's sponsored by the Koch Brothers, so he's going to last in the race until the convention, if that's what they wish.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 12, 2015, 12:40:53 AM
God, those two Bossmen probably don't do as much harm as Rupert Murdock, but it's not for a lack of trying and loathesome causes/candidates and hundreds of millions invested.

We need to come up with a word for Robber Baron right-of-Hitler openly-corrupt naked-power-in-your-face politics of the Cheney/Murdock/Koch sort that won't make people as mad as when I call them Nazis like they deserve.


ABC ran a story about whether Biden will give in and run this evening.  I didn't actually listen, because Biden - he's already lost three times and is officially a loser.  I'd hate to be him and want to be president as bad as he must, with that anyone but Hillary thing taunting me to sleep at night, but he needs to get off the pot six months ago, or not spoil it for Sanders.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 13, 2015, 02:51:10 AM
God, those two Bossmen probably don't do as much harm as Rupert Murdock, but it's not for a lack of trying and loathesome causes/candidates and hundreds of millions invested.

We need to come up with a word for Robber Baron right-of-Hitler openly-corrupt naked-power-in-your-face politics of the Cheney/Murdock/Koch sort that won't make people as mad as when I call them Nazis like they deserve.

Now, they're bad, but not so far as to deserve to be called "Nazis", since they don't actually favor killing innocent people.  As for a term, what's wrong with reusing "Robber barons"?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 03:15:41 AM
It's not within an order of magnitude ugly enough to begin to reflect their hatefulness.

They support every anti-progress, anti-tolerance, anti-freedom measure you can find out there faintly on the outskirts of the mainstream.  Cheney is Cheney.  Murdock has made his fortune spreading trash, sleeze and lies, and nothing but.  The Koch brothers threatened their employees with massive layoffs if Obama was reelected, which should be a felony.  All do everything they can to undermine democracy.  They are the enemies of freedom and they are the friends of greed, corruption and coercion.

Sic Semper Tyrannis.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 03:16:57 PM
Quote
Bobby… What's His Name? That Guy Who Hates [Sleezebag]?
Jindal is the saddest Republican.
Splice Today
Noah Berlatsky  Sep 11, 2015, 09:48AM


(https://splicetoday.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/posts/photos/18297/large_Screen_Shot_2015-09-11_at_9.54.35_AM.png)



Of all the sad Republican presidential candidates, Bobby Jindal’s the saddest.

Presidential candidates crave attention like flies crave fresh dung. Without news coverage, polls lag, and donors don't even know you exist, much less where to send you money. A presidential candidate without news coverage is nowhere. That's why Mike Huckabee and Rick Perry are nude Jello-wrestling each other for the privilege of standing next to a county clerk. Does either much care if Kim Davis goes to prison for refusing to grant marriage licenses to same-sex couples? Of course they don't care. But they know someone is pointing a camera at Davis. They want to be in front of that camera, nude Jello and all.

Obviously, the main person in front of the camera these days is [Sleezebag]. When [Sleezebag] sees a camera a complex scientific process takes place involving the bilious gases in his gut and jowls and he expands and expands. That’s the power of [Sleezebag]. Once his inflated bulk has reached full Trumpness, there’s no room for anyone else to stand anywhere amidst the fumes and bluster. Better to be hit by a tree than befouled by the wake of a reality star.

So, what do you do if you're a piddling little presidential pipsqueak with no gas in your jowls? How can you [Sleezebag] the [Sleezebag]? The answer is clear. All the media cares about is [Sleezebag]. So provide them with [Sleezebag] content. The media will have to pay attention to you then.

The scheme is so obvious it's surprising that all the desperate GOP Lilliputians, from Christie to Kasich to what's-his-name, haven't tried it already. But Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal this week is giving it a go.  Jindal’s been paddling around in the bottom bit of the bottom bit of the Republican field; in first debate back in early August, his poor polling relegated him to the second-tier runner up debate, where he was outshone by Carly "never-held-public-office" Fiorina.

So in a desperate bid for relevancy, Jindal’s gone on an anti-[Sleezebag] offensive. In the last 48 hours, he's called [Sleezebag] an "unstable narcissist," and mocked [Sleezebag]'s inability to pick a favorite Bible verse ("[Sleezebag] hasn't read the Bible because he's not in it"). Jindal's campaign manager rather bizarrely said, "Charlie Sheen is clearly Donald [Sleezebag]'s spirit animal," which doesn't make a ton of sense, but sure sounds mean.

I'm all for people elaborately insulting [Sleezebag], and Jindal's gambit seems sound. It's humiliating to sink to schoolyard taunts, but if you had any dignity, you wouldn't be running for president anyway. Jindal's pugnacious piffle is getting a lot of press, and if only [Sleezebag] will respond in kind, the Louisiana governor is in with a chance to get those poll numbers up and sneak into the adult-table debate. You can't blame a guy for trying.

Here's the sad part, though. Check out this Business Insider link about Jindal insulting [Sleezebag]. Notice the headline? It reads, "Rival campaign says Charlie Sheen is Donald [Sleezebag]'s 'spirit animal.'" Or this post from the same publication: "Rival unloads on 'egomaniacal madman' Donald [Sleezebag], says he hasn't read the Bible 'because he's not in it.'"

"Rival campaign." "Rival unloads." Business Insider’s editorial has apparently decided that Jindal is so irrelevant, so unknown, that putting him in the headline would just confuse readers. They know who [Sleezebag] is—and that's all they need to know. Jindal can leap up and down, he can call [Sleezebag] out, and what does he get for his trouble? He gets headlines identifying him only as [Sleezebag]'s "rival." He could be Ted Cruz or Lawrence Lessig for all the newspaper cares.

Other publications have deigned to mention the word "Jindal" in their headlines. And thanks to their generosity, the man may get a polling boost out of this stunt, and good for him.  But there's something painfully apropos about those Business Insider stories. Bobby Jindal, governor of a whole honking state, is currently running, not for President of the United States, but for that heady position: Rival to Donald [Sleezebag].
#.VfLcs55Wdbw.twitter]http://www.splicetoday.com/politics-and-media/bobby-what-s-his-name-that-guy-who-hates-[Sleezebag]#.VfLcs55Wdbw.twitter (http://www.splicetoday.com/politics-and-media/bobby-what-s-his-name-that-guy-who-hates-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 13, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
It's not within an order of magnitude ugly enough to begin to reflect their hatefulness.

They support every anti-progress, anti-tolerance, anti-freedom measure you can find out there faintly on the outskirts of the mainstream.  Cheney is Cheney.  Murdock has made his fortune spreading trash, sleeze and lies, and nothing but.  The Koch brothers threatened their employees with massive layoffs if Obama was reelected, which should be a felony.  All do everything they can to undermine democracy.  They are the enemies of freedom and they are the friends of greed, corruption and coercion.

So...how is that different than the implications of "robber barons"?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 04:22:30 PM
I think I already answered that in the first sentence quoted, elaborated in the rest.

But look at it this way: Robber Baron is a rather shopworn historical term with virtually zero visceral power left.  Nazi or Fascist don't have that problem -and make no mistake; all these fellows are all for the power of the state as long as it doesn't get between them and money, and Cheney in particular did actual entry-level fascism while in power- but Godwin and Vishniac, y'know?

Robber Baron is pretty accurate and covers a lot of it, but rather impotent.  I don't want to Break The Roolz of the Innerwebs, and I don't want to be that guy shouting fascist all the time.   I'd like to have a happy medium that doesn't set off bullcrap alarms so quickly.

Also, Bill Gates is a Robber Baron, but not a statist.  The term completely leaves out that these fellows in question are about money first and last, but thrilled to have their personal values, or at least the values of their followers, legislated as Manditory in between so long as it doesn't conflict with the $Prime Directive$.

They are the Bossmen I talk about sometimes, who want to make us slaves.  Bossman definitely has some nice opprobrium dripping off it, but is just a redneck version of Robber Baron with similar problems.  What to do, Yitzi?  Ideas and Names have power, and as I said in the Facebook speech, our country went way too far 14 years ago and we MUST do more to fight the Bigots and Tyrants subverting the American Way.

Your personal values neither break my leg nor pick my pocket; they've made their personal values my problem by trying to make them manditory.  I'm trying to generate some pushback through the power of Ideas and Names.  It's the American Way.

What to do?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 13, 2015, 05:00:30 PM
I think I already answered that in the first sentence quoted, elaborated in the rest.

But look at it this way: Robber Baron is a rather shopworn historical term with virtually zero visceral power left.  Nazi or Fascist don't have that problem -and make no mistake; all these fellows are all for the power of the state as long as it doesn't get between them and money, and Cheney in particular did actual entry-level fascism while in power- but Godwin and Vishniac, y'know?

Robber Baron is pretty accurate and covers a lot of it, but rather impotent.  I don't want to Break The Roolz of the Innerwebs, and I don't want to be that guy shouting fascist all the time.   I'd like to have a happy medium that doesn't set off bullcrap alarms so quickly.

So basically, you want something that has the same sense that "Robber Baron" had nearly a century ago.

Personally, I think that being used to describe Cheney and his sort might be just what "Robber Baron" needs to get that visceral power back.  After all, the goal shouldn't be to use terms to get people riled up, but to use terms to get them seriously thinking about the issues, and let those issues get them riled up.*

*This follows the general principle that one should engage in debating practice that can only be effectively used by the side that's actually correct.

Quote
Also, Bill Gates is a Robber Baron

I don't see him engaging in that sort of corruption, though I may just be missing it.

Quote
but not a statist.  The term completely leaves out that these fellows in question are about money first and last, but thrilled to have their personal values, or at least the values of their followers, legislated as Manditory in between so long as it doesn't conflict with the $Prime Directive$.

So maybe call them theocracy-leaning robber barons?  "Theocracy-leaning" isn't a very strong statement...but then, "wants X as long as it doesn't conflict with their primary goal" isn't that extreme a position.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Many of the positions not interfering are pretty extreme. 

This is useful feedback, for which I thank you.  At very minimum it helps me hone my  thinking/arguments.

Gates is an overt monopolist, the most central defining characteristic of a Robber Baron when they could manage a monopoly, railroads being a natural monopoly -see also Standard Oil- the difference from the buttholes in question being mostly that he's not very political - and left-leaning, if anything, and non-coercive in his philanthropic activities, to the extent one finds them political at all.  I have profound issues with Monopolists, but that's sort've a side-issue to the evil directly political stuff I'm trying to engage here.

-That's good communications theory about reviving Robber Baron; words only mean what we think they mean.  For that matter, were I a celebrity with widespread influence, or at least mass media access, just trying to append a "fascist-leaning" connotation to "The 1%", almost a contemporary equivalent of Robber Baron, would have promise.

I think that visceral element is crucial, though, to a nobody trying to start something on stupid internet social media and failing to even get any cooperation from liberal friends - one Libertarian so far, and that's it.

-How about dropping the Fascist part and thinking of a something that means Bigots and Tyrants in one instantly-recognizable word?  It would leave the nationalism out, but otherwise cover it...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 13, 2015, 05:50:33 PM
Many of the positions not interfering are pretty extreme. 

Not interfering with what?

Quote
Gates is an overt monopolist, the most central defining characteristic of a Robber Baron when they could manage a monopoly

I don't think so; as I see it, the most central defining characteristic of a robber baron was the lack of morals and corrupt behavior, not the monopolisticness per se.

Quote
-That's good communications theory about reviving Robber Baron; words only mean what we think they mean.  For that matter, were I a celebrity with widespread influence, or at least mass media access, just trying to append a "fascist-leaning" connotation to "The 1%", almost a contemporary equivalent of Robber Baron, would have promise.

But "the 1%" really isn't a contemporary equivalent of "Robber Baron", since by its origin it is clearly based only on how wealthy someone is and not how ethical they are in the pursuit and usage of such wealth.  Once you use mathematical terminology, there isn't much room for connotation and spin.

Quote
I think that visceral element is crucial, though, to a nobody trying to start something on stupid internet social media and failing to even get any cooperation from liberal friends - one Libertarian so far, and that's it.

I think the visceral element is crucial, but does not have to come directly from your terminology.

Quote
-How about dropping the Fascist part and thinking of a something that means Bigots and Tyrants in one instantly-recognizable word?  It would leave the nationalism out, but otherwise cover it...

It really wouldn't, since the big problem with Cheney and co isn't that they're tyrants (they're pretty low-key as far as tyrants go) or that they're bigots (they're probably just playing to bigots, and even that not all that hard), but that they're crooks and subverting the political system.  That's why "robber barons" is so good; it pretty much explicitly says "crooks", and it references the last group to subvert the political system that way.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 05:54:37 PM
[ninja'd - hold on]

Hey, I should clarify a bit of hyperbole I've indulged in recently.  The Democratic party is a sad, sad piece of crap, and I wouldn't really destroy the Republican party if I could snap my fingers and do it that easily.  It is the nature of the universe that without opposition, the Democratic party almost instantly becomes The Man, corrupt, horrible, coercive/oppressive and even more appallingly incompetent.  I'm from an area solidly Democratic before Reagan, and I know.

I just want to shame and undermine the Bigots and Tyrants, and push that hateful un-American bullcrap completely out of the mainstream conversation, in actual purpose.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 13, 2015, 06:03:53 PM
[ninja'd - hold on]

Hey, I should clarify a bit of hyperbole I've indulged in recently.  The Democratic party is a sad, sad piece of crap, and I wouldn't really destroy the Republican party if I could snap my fingers and do it that easily.  It is the nature of the universe that without opposition, the Democratic party almost instantly becomes The Man, corrupt, horrible, coercive/oppressive and even more appallingly incompetent.  I'm from an area solidly Democratic before Reagan, and I know.

I just want to shame and undermine the Bigots and Tyrants, and push that hateful un-American bullcrap completely out of the mainstream conversation, in actual purpose.

The goal shouldn't be to shame and undermine the bigots and tyrants, but to shame and undermine the aspects of the system that cause corrupt, horrible, and oppressive groups to so easily take power.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
[ninja'd - hold on]

Hey, I should clarify a bit of hyperbole I've indulged in recently.  The Democratic party is a sad, sad piece of crap, and I wouldn't really destroy the Republican party if I could snap my fingers and do it that easily.  It is the nature of the universe that without opposition, the Democratic party almost instantly becomes The Man, corrupt, horrible, coercive/oppressive and even more appallingly incompetent.  I'm from an area solidly Democratic before Reagan, and I know.

I just want to shame and undermine the Bigots and Tyrants, and push that hateful un-American bullcrap completely out of the mainstream conversation, in actual purpose.
The goal shouldn't be to shame and undermine the bigots and tyrants, but to shame and undermine the aspects of the system that cause corrupt, horrible, and oppressive groups to so easily take power.
And shame and subvert the tens of millions of foolish dupes they've tricked into supporting issues against their own self-interest.  That part's super-key; I could never talk Cheney, Murdock or the Kochs into anything, but money isn't real power if you can't buy supporters with it.

Response to the previous post pending...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 07:41:29 PM
Many of the positions not interfering are pretty extreme. 

Not interfering with what?

Quote
Gates is an overt monopolist, the most central defining characteristic of a Robber Baron when they could manage a monopoly

I don't think so; as I see it, the most central defining characteristic of a robber baron was the lack of morals and corrupt behavior, not the monopolisticness per se.

Quote
-That's good communications theory about reviving Robber Baron; words only mean what we think they mean.  For that matter, were I a celebrity with widespread influence, or at least mass media access, just trying to append a "fascist-leaning" connotation to "The 1%", almost a contemporary equivalent of Robber Baron, would have promise.

But "the 1%" really isn't a contemporary equivalent of "Robber Baron", since by its origin it is clearly based only on how wealthy someone is and not how ethical they are in the pursuit and usage of such wealth.  Once you use mathematical terminology, there isn't much room for connotation and spin.

Quote
I think that visceral element is crucial, though, to a nobody trying to start something on stupid internet social media and failing to even get any cooperation from liberal friends - one Libertarian so far, and that's it.

I think the visceral element is crucial, but does not have to come directly from your terminology.

Quote
-How about dropping the Fascist part and thinking of a something that means Bigots and Tyrants in one instantly-recognizable word?  It would leave the nationalism out, but otherwise cover it...

It really wouldn't, since the big problem with Cheney and co isn't that they're tyrants (they're pretty low-key as far as tyrants go) or that they're bigots (they're probably just playing to bigots, and even that not all that hard), but that they're crooks and subverting the political system.  That's why "robber barons" is so good; it pretty much explicitly says "crooks", and it references the last group to subvert the political system that way.
Multiquoting is great for clarity, but also means instant eye-glazing wall of text, and a lot of extra work on this software.  I'll try to at least respond in order.

You'd agree, wouldn't you, that Gates' business practices conform to your definition even so?  Windows cruft, for example, man; I don't think it's entirely an accident that your system gets slower and crappier with time - like, they surely know about it, and probably could have fixed, but why bother when it coerces me to upgrade to their latest I-pay public beta OS?

1% was just a random thought; you and I like Robber Baron a lot better, but 1% has contemporary cache and most people aren't as well-educated in history, frankly.  I dunno.

But the visceral element has to come from SOMEwhere...

Strongly disagree that the big problem isn't tyranny - I keep mentioning coercion and undermining democracy.  Also disagree about low-key as tyrants go; I said entry-level fascism because no uniforms and the racism isn't front-and center, but Jose Padillo and the Patriot Act.  It's not exactly all-police state, all the time, and the forms of democracy are still mostly being observed, but that they were sweeping up citizens and detaining them indefinitely without council or civil trial before a jury of their peers?  ANY citizens at all, ever?  (Foreign 'enemy combatants' is another matter; immoral, un-American and a bad idea for which we will pay around the world for generations to come, especially the torture, but not actually against our basic rules.)  Sir, that there's unpardonable moderate-level tyranny and a foot on the road to an armored gestapo-in-all-but-name policeman on every corner.  Perhaps that idea may concern you, given the givens.

I do agree that Cheney appears to hate/hold in naked contempt the great unwashed, but not necessarily not by ethnicity or anything -I sorta doubt he even hates Arabs/Muslims unless they're poor- and only lets bigotry work for him.  I have suspicions about Murdock and especially the Kochs, but don't know nearly enough about them as people to rudely speculate.  (I wanna launch a few bombs in their direction, this being War, but one of my basic problems with those jokers is the coarsening of the public discourse they employ.  Slogans and evocative labels, sure, but let's try to keep a little dignity and civility - there's a line somewhere there I want to stay above, lest I become the very dragon I wrestle.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 13, 2015, 08:51:18 PM
Here's some brain drizzle-

State-sponsored Profiteers

Lobbyist Overlords

Profipuppeteers

Corporate Co-conspirators

Corruptorate Tycoons
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 08:56:36 PM
Definitely on the right track...

I've tended over the years to think of the Cheney Bund/Murdock/Koch stuff as "Corporate Fascism", but I think this is the first time I ever communicated the term to anyone.  It's... got the f-word in it, which misleads and godwins, and not pithy enough, I think, but I've been calling it that to myself for over a decade.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 13, 2015, 09:01:51 PM
Or how about .....



Capitolist$  ?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 13, 2015, 09:51:19 PM
The deal, though, with elections is they are often like the old elections in high school. You did not have to be BFFs the guy or gal running for class president. The one who has the most name recognition wins unless someone has some glaring issues. Most of the student body are very simple creatures. They do not care much for platforms unless it agrees with or contradicts gut one-word conditioning. Most folks do not read and culture is limited to sports, TV, or internet memes.

All of us read. But we are forumites of various forums which requires reading even if you lurk. Most people are going to go by who sounds best in sound bites and does not go against some heresy among their respective groups. Just like school elections.

Plus, consider. ALL the contenders are not like us. They are all incredibly wealthy and are out of touch usually with the common man. Even the ones you "like" just because they have not uttered heresies or say some stuff they "say" they are going to do but will have no power really to do. Just like a class president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 10:04:31 PM
:D Dang, Green; that's exactly right.  I figured it out and got a girl I liked elected student body president in the ninth grade; she wasn't 'popular' or anything, exactly, but no real negatives and a pudgy boy who liked her spending quite a few hours making magic-marker typing paper posters and plastering her name all. over. the. building.

It's really as simple as that, on any level of politics, given a decent candidate to sell and accounting for the magnitude more trees obscuring the forest out in the real word on the national level.  The one with the most friends sporting their button is gonna win.

-Nothing ever came of liking the girl, though...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 13, 2015, 11:06:26 PM
Hey - someone in a comment thread on a very liberal blog I follow said something about - eh, just quote:

Quote
The thing is, we still have checks on the Federal government (the legislative and judicial branches, regular and mostly open elections). As such, we are, as a nation, in a position to fix the situation in a way that we wouldn’t were this a fascist state. Am I optimistic about this? Not really. But if I say the current situation is tantamount to fascism then I’m altogether discounting the possibility of civic action, which would get me off the hook from doing anything short of fomenting revolution. -
See more at: http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/09/superman-on-trial/#comment-197901 (http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2015/09/superman-on-trial/#comment-197901)

And given the tear I'm on ATM, you can imagine what I said about sloganeering and webs memes as a political tool, mostly about the search for a term  for the Robber Baron Authoritarians.  (HU comment threads are a room so erudite I feel shy about speaking up, which is not something I'm used to.)

Someone else suggested “plutocracy” or “oligarchy” - even worse than Robber Baron for reaching inside the working-class statists I want to influence and squeezing, but I think terms that should be in the vocabulary of the discussion.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 14, 2015, 01:47:39 AM
Quote
http://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2015/09/11/nearly-a-third-of-americans-could-imagine-supporting-the-military-overthrowing-the-federal-govt/
Quote
Nearly A Third Of Americans Could Imagine Supporting The Military Overthrowing The Federal Gov’t
Quote
For many Americans, a coup in which the military seizes control of the federal government is starting to seem like a refreshing alternative to the existing administration, according to a new poll.


You know its bad when a military coup starts looking good. Remember that backlash I was talking about?  ;)
Oh and [Sleezebag] is scoring 25% of the black vote.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 14, 2015, 01:53:13 AM
Okay, Tucker Carlson and Jonah Bennett don't have their own pages on the Southern Poverty Law Center's website, so dubious objectivity, but more-or-less legit source, IMAO.

Military'd have to come shoot me; I ain't playing along with that crap.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 14, 2015, 02:06:12 AM
The military wouldn't have to. What do you think you'd be able to do about it?
Besides just because a third of the population would support a coup doesn't mean the military
would. At least the higher command. Anyone at General or so is essentially a politician in any case.
The rank and file is another story. I do know there is a limited amount of crap the military will put up with.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 14, 2015, 02:42:49 AM
They would have to shoot me.  I wouldn't stay home for that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 14, 2015, 02:52:19 AM
[quote auClintonthor=vonbach link=topic=16649.msg81724#msg81724 date=1442191659]
Quote
http://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2015/09/11/nearly-a-third-of-americans-could-imagine-supporting-the-military-overthrowing-the-federal-govt/
Quote
Nearly A Third Of Americans Could Imagine Supporting The Military Overthrowing The Federal Gov’t
Quote
For many Americans, a coup in which the military seizes control of the federal government is starting to seem like a refreshing alternative to the existing administration, according to a new poll.


You know its bad when a military coup starts looking good. Remember that backlash I was talking about?  ;)
Oh and [Sleezebag] is scoring 25% of the black vote.
[/quote]
That's amazing.   
My wife is leaning towards Carson. She's finding the Sanders/Clinton/[Sleezebag] spectrum intolerable as an imagined presidency.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 14, 2015, 02:55:22 AM
;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 15, 2015, 03:32:22 PM
Quote
(https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-1/p50x50/10423695_829753723746300_4381716151352311034_n.png?oh=0f53fbf81fc783cae097a8c3bb4c4f11&oe=565E6AEA&__gda__=1453387916_1b022da00d463a0ac7185ff08ff5fe14) Bernie Sanders (https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders?fref=nf)
16 hrs ·

I came here today because I believe that it is important for those with different views in our country to engage in civil discourse. It is harder, but not less important, to try and communicate with those who do not agree with us and see where, if possible, we can find common ground.


(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11990524_901191599935845_1833344462520385965_n.jpg?oh=c9187f4333a6e288985ca33a8d806081&oe=56A9557B)
;b;

Correct.  Classy.  Has the guts to speak at Liberty University.  Your wife is wrong to include him in her crap list, Rusty.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 15, 2015, 06:55:27 PM
Socialists always rub her the wrong way. She's worried she can't bring herself to vote for anybody.
I'm thrilled that the next president might not be a Clinton or Bush.

I figure Bernie would get a Republican Congress, and wouldn't be able to do much harm.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 15, 2015, 07:07:31 PM
He probably would - and I betcha he'd do a better job pushing through workable stuff than Bakrama.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 16, 2015, 02:35:47 AM
Socialists always rub her the wrong way. She's worried she can't bring herself to vote for anybody.
I'm thrilled that the next president might not be a Clinton or Bush.

I figure Bernie would get a Republican Congress, and wouldn't be able to do much harm.
I must agree that I do not want Bush or Clinton as president. The maximum number of presidents with the same last name has historically only totalled two.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 16, 2015, 02:47:22 AM
Roosevelt II was the only non-stinker in the bunch, at that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 17, 2015, 01:45:04 AM
It's sounding like South Carolina Senator and closet homosexual Lindsey Graham won the losers' debate.  Fiorina got invited to eat at the adult table tonight for doing that last time...

I think Graham is a chimp, but one of the least chimpy chimps in a monkey house that's officially turned out to be a more banana-eating, poo-slinging shrieking joke of a circus than last time.  This is today's Republican party.  Draft Tarzan; he's strong on alligator-killing, and the monkey sidekicks are already lined up.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 17, 2015, 02:16:36 AM
I was cooking and only caught the conclusion of the Kid's table debate.

I was bristling at Santorum's assertion that "WE" must take away the Caliphate's territory. I think I'd be willing to buy him a one way ticket if he wants to put his own life on the line.

I haven't changed my mind. Everybody in the Moslem world needs to make up their mind about the Caliph and act accordingly, the same as if the Messiah appeared today, and the Christians would have to decide to follow, or denounce as a  heretic. Outside intervention would only confuse the issue within the faith.

**************************************************************

"And I say this not in a braggadocious  manner" should be the current frontrunner's tagline.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 17, 2015, 02:20:32 AM
Someone on The Atlantic called it the most outlandish thing he's ever said in his entire public life of saying ridiculous things.

And they do indeed need to police their own troublemakers in the Middle East, or not be surprised and outraged when our soreheads try to conquer the place.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 17, 2015, 03:32:55 AM
Quote
Lindsey Graham shines at undercard debate
CNN
By Manu Raju   Updated 9:53 PM ET, Wed September 16, 2015



 (CNN)—The Lindsey Graham show turned up in Simi Valley, California, during tonight's CNN Republican presidential debate.

After a flat performance in August at the first GOP debate, the South Carolina senator lit up the crowd at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library during CNN's undercard debate, lashing his opponents with sharp barbs and dropping zingers that brought roars of approval.

"That's the first thing I'm going to do as president: We're going to drink more," he said.

Graham also trashed Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton in eyebrow-raising terms.

"Where the hell were you" during the Benghazi, Libya, attacks, Graham fumed when he was asked about his past praise for Clinton.

The performance quickly earned Graham praise on social media, in much the same way Carly Fiorina impressed the audience during last month's debate.

He was no more charitable with some of his Republican rivals, saying he was "sick of hearing" fellow Sen. Ted Cruz calling for defunding Obamacare while President Barack Obama was in office and certain to veto such legislation.

He ridiculed Donald [Sleezebag] as "a cartoon character" who gets his foreign policy from the Cartoon Network.

And he even took digs -- repeatedly -- at fellow second-tier candidates, including former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

"I don't remember the Santorum plan when I was in the Senate," Graham said, referring to Santorum's immigration plan.

"We need to win -- we need to win fighting for Americans. We need to win fighting for the workers in this country," said Santorum, a former Pennsylvania senator.

"In my world, Hispanics are Americans."

Whether his sharp tongue will help boost his chances is far from certain. But it could give at least a small lift to the South Carolina Republican, who has won three terms in the Senate in no small part due to his folksy campaign style.

Graham, who has championed comprehensive immigration reform, including a path to citizenship, brought the crowd to roars when he said: "Strom Thurmond had four kids after age 67. If you're not willing to do that, we need to come up with a new immigration system."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/politics/lindsey-graham-republican-debate-performance/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/politics/lindsey-graham-republican-debate-performance/)



I hear Rubio had a good moment or two, and Rand got off a smart shot back at the Pig.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 17, 2015, 04:26:38 AM
I've listening to bits from both debates since the last post, and Graham was indeed in fine form.  Big winner of the whole night is my guess.  Let's see if the polls don't say the same very soon.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 17, 2015, 05:40:21 AM
I haven't seen the end yet. Stuff going on, DVR keeps getting paused. You know how it is, I can only focus on one voice at a time.

I may have to send Paul some money. He is sounding  again like a guy who believes in the Constitution. You know, that thing that everybody swears allegiance to when they take federal office, or join the military, or become a citizen.

Rubio is a great speaker when his passion comes out, and he's passionate about America in a way that only the descendent of immigrants and refugees can be.

That underscores a distinction I see in Republicans.  Call it Nixonian. That's when your worldview supersedes the Constitution. When you're so eager to protect America or Israel, or Capitalism, or the economy, that you trample the Constitution with good intentions, Patriot Act Style.  I'm thinking Rubio and Christie are a little too Nixonian.  I'm not too sure about some of the others. Cruz and Huckabee often cite the Constitution, but they get Nixonian when it comes to Christianity.

INSERT BUNCLE BUMPER STICKER HERE=>

Another contrast that struck me was the one between the frontrunner and Ronald Regan. Yeah, sure, they're both Teflon. Regan was hopeful, confident, and optimistic. The frontrunner is such a downer. He's critical of everybody who disagrees with him, in a petty and insecure way. I don't think his faces were very presidential.


Winners and losers? I can't say.  I will predict that Carly Fiorina gain relative to the frontrunner.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 17, 2015, 02:06:45 PM
The [Sleezebag] supporters here seem unmoved. 

"I wish he wouldn't say crazy stuff, but he's the guy to vote for."

 ;nutz;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 17, 2015, 03:51:38 PM
The [Sleezebag] supporters here seem unmoved. 

"I wish he wouldn't say crazy stuff, but he's the guy to vote for."

 ;nutz;

[Sleezebag] destroyed them and owned that podium. Yes, he said crazy stuff. But, while everyone else acted artificial, he was animated and went after people. [Sleezebag] was into it and not afraid to lay smack down.  All the lesser knowns could do is kiss his butt hoping for a vice presidency later in the game and all the closest contenders could do is be on the defensive. Only Rand Paul came up with anything halfway coherent, but he is a Libertarian and not a full Repub and the powers that be will never have him anywhere near a nomination.

So... if [Sleezebag] gets elected, I am wondering about this wall bettween the US and Mexico. Is this going to be some kind of world wonder?  Is it going to have casinos?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 17, 2015, 04:04:46 PM
I thought the Pig had toned it down just a smidge last night.

I could change my mind about young Darth Paul yet.  He did indeed say a lot of the right things about our American rules, and playing by them.  The small-government conservatives aren't always right, but they're usually not wrong, and I got no real problem with them.  I'm glad there was someone in that room enunciating those rational principals.

Side note: it was obvious two years ago that the mass media group mind was terrified of Governor Christie.  There was an unmistakable low level smear campaign going all over MSNBC, for example.  Since, there seems to have developed a consensus, all across the bias spectrum, to ignore him to death.  The little he got to speak last night, he certainly sounded like George Will compared to a certain someone, and that's just wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 18, 2015, 01:19:37 AM
Quote
So... if [Sleezebag] gets elected, I am wondering about this wall bettween the US and Mexico. Is this going to be some kind of world wonder?  Is it going to have casinos?

It'll be a real wonder its called enforce existing laws and go after employers. No jobs, no illegals that simple.
Anchor babies and their families that came across no problem. Guess what birthright citizenship doesn't apply to you
get out. This isn't a hard problem to fix. It just requires non marxists (or traitors) in office.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 01:26:40 AM
The Republicans will never actually go through with that, you know.  Cheap labor that will do anything, put up with anything, and has no power to resist anything, being a phone call away from jail and a bus trip?  Too many Bossmen want exactly that too bad.

Be careful/diplomatic if you choose to discuss this issue...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 01:47:47 AM
Quote
Scorecard: How the GOP candidates fared in their 2nd debate
Associated Press
By THOMAS BEAUMONT  6 hours ago



SIMI VALLEY, California (AP) — Here's a look at how the eleven Republican candidates for president participating in the main-event debate at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Southern California fared on Wednesday night.

____

DONALD [Sleezebag]

The clear target of many of his rivals. Also challenged by the debate's moderators to demonstrate proficiency on foreign policy and national security. Challenged by Carly Fiorina for his recent comments about her appearance, and by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush for attributing Bush's support for an immigration overhaul to his wife's Mexican heritage.

____

JEB BUSH

Tried unsuccessfully to elicit apology from [Sleezebag] for comments about his wife. Came on strong toward the end. Won one of the few big applause moments, when he countered a criticism from [Sleezebag] of his brother, former President George W. Bush, with the line: "He kept us safe."

___


CARLY FIORINA

Critical of [Sleezebag]'s business dealings, but got ensnared in a comparison of professional records. In her first prime-time debate, Fiorina stood out, vocally asserting her ideas on foreign policy. Memorably said "women all over this country heard very clearly what Mr. [Sleezebag] said," responding to a question about [Sleezebag]'s critique of Fiorina's experience.

___

SCOTT WALKER

Was among several candidates who went after [Sleezebag] early in the debate, attacking him for projects that went into bankruptcy. The attack fell flat amid the vocal back-and-forth between the two. Walker was quiet during much of the second half of the debate, and echoed Marco Rubio during an opportunity to distinguish himself late on climate change.

___

MARCO RUBIO

Largely stayed out of the fray with [Sleezebag]. Demonstrated fluency on foreign and economic policy. Continued to season his comments with his family history as the son of a Cuban immigrant.

___

MIKE HUCKABEE

Hewed close to his social conservative base, stayed away from [Sleezebag] attacks, but also went 45 minutes without being asked a question. Insisted he would require Supreme Court nominees be abortion opponents, and defended the Kentucky county clerk who refused to grant marriage licenses to gay couples.

___

TED CRUZ

Cruz held close to his tea party base by promising to "rip to shreds this catastrophic Iranian nuclear deal," railing against federal funding for Planned Parenthood and calling his support for the confirmation of Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts a mistake in light of his decisions that upheld the 2010 federal health care law.

___

BEN CARSON

The popular retired neurosurgeon notably questioned [Sleezebag]'s assertion that childhood vaccinations were a contributor to autism. He, too, was challenged by moderators to demonstrate foreign policy fluency, but was also notably left out of the questioning about the trustworthiness of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

___

RAND PAUL

Standing at far stage right, Paul had the best line of the night on the Iraq war and the fight against the Islamic State. "If you want boots on the ground, and you want them to be our sons and daughters, you got 14 other choices. There will always be a Bush or Clinton for you, if you want to go back to war in Iraq."

___

JOHN KASICH

Like Rubio, tried to steer clear of [Sleezebag] attacks. Promoted compassion for drug offenders, recommended Mother Teresa be enshrined on U.S. currency and touted and projected a cheerfulness "where everybody's actions make a huge difference in changing the world."

___

CHRIS CHRISTIE

Kept his focus on middle class voters, memorably criticizing Fiorina and [Sleezebag] arguing over the business resumes, saying struggling Americans "could care less." Projected a law-and-order image: the former prosecutor opposed legalizing marijuana when some called it a state issue.
http://news.yahoo.com/scorecard-gop-candidates-fared-2nd-debate-072543923--election.html (http://news.yahoo.com/scorecard-gop-candidates-fared-2nd-debate-072543923--election.html)



There's pics at the link if you care - stopped working for me before I could post.

A thought on Fiorina:  If she really wants to be president and keeps doing this well in debates, she can probably make Governor somewhere and do a hitch in the US House in whichever order works out when she loses this, provided she loses well.  Do that, Ma'am, do a good job at both, and you have met my own absolute minimum qualifications for President and I will take you seriously.  That goes for everyone, and I even tried to tell Ross Perot that a long time ago, but he turned out to not be in earshot and wouldn't have bothered with paying his dues if he'd heard.

The Pig was gravely mistaken to not bother to apologize to Bush's wife, a woman I've heard nothing against from any decent, honest people ever.  You just broke a basic social/political rule, Pig - she stays out of everything public, always, and family not involved in policy, governing or campaigning are off-limits.  Period.  A huge butthole would have issued a perfunctory, obviously insincere apology in your place, and you should be shunned for that alone.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 18, 2015, 01:53:13 AM
Quote
The Republicans will never actually go through with that, you know.
Either they start paying attention to their base or they wont get elected. Its why [Sleezebag] is running. Its that simple.
Quote
Cheap labor that will do anything, put up with anything, and has no power to resist anything, being a phone call away from jail and a bus trip?
What are you kidding? this isn't the 50's. Nowadays they practically throw welfare at them.
For that matter free education and whatever else they want at taxpayer expense.
The way it works is one of the family gets some crap job working off the books and the rest of the clan be brought it
goes on welfare and leeches off the system. They already for all practical purposes own the southwest.

Quote
Be careful/diplomatic if you choose to discuss this issue...
Theres no way to please liberals. They simply don't want to hear it from my experience.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 01:57:36 AM
Mentioning liberals in reply to a caution to watch your step on a subject connected to something you'd best avoid is a grave error, young man.  Strike one.

Also, anyone who thinks Mexican are lazy don't know anything about Mexicans.  Those people WORK.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 18, 2015, 02:04:16 AM
Quote
Mentioning liberals

Like I said liberals just don't want to hear differing opinions.
Quote
Also, anyone who thinks Mexican are lazy don't know anything about Mexicans.  Those people WORK.


No they don't they are parasites living off the american taxpayer. Its the reason they come here.
Quote
http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/71-of-illegals-with-kids-collect-welfare/

Quote
INVASION USA
71% OF ILLEGALS WITH KIDS COLLECT WELFARE
Quote
http://thelawdictionary.org/article/why-is-it-that-illegal-aliens-get-free-food-stamps-health-insurance-and-pay-no-taxes/
Quote
Why is it that Illegal Aliens Get Free Food Stamps, Health Insurance and Pay No Taxes?
Written by James Hirby | Fact checked by The Law Dictionary staff 
Americans who are struggling to survive due to high unemployment and low wages may be asking why illegal aliens receive benefits from state and federal governments. Federal law does prevent illegal aliens from receiving benefits meant for American citizens. The only benefit that illegal aliens are allowed is emergency medical care.

Just because illegal aliens are not legally entitled to these benefits does not mean they do not apply for them. Yes. It is true that illegal aliens have received grants, professional accreditations, loans, WIC, disability, public housing, college educations, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and tax credits from state and federal agencies.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 02:09:01 AM
Strike two.  I'm not going to tolerate that particular bit of tired reactionary rudeness anymore.

Also, factually incorrect, both times.  If you intend to keep up the hate speech against brown people, tell me now, and let's get your vacation started.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 18, 2015, 02:12:28 AM
Hate speech? Are you serious? These are facts. What are we in the USSR?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 02:25:31 AM
I'm serious.  I don't know whether you're a racist in denial or undercover.  I think you mean well enough, and I like you just fine, but you have ideas about the world that I've seen with my own eyes turn out not to be the case at all, and your way of expressing them is without sophistication or class - and sometimes crosses the line into hate speech and brings down the whole party I'm throwing here.  I used to be -- not exactly like you, but a whole lot closer than I am now that I've learned better.

Like 75% of the internet, you want to believe that the world is really simple, when you look at it clearly - I'm the same way, but life has taught me to seek comfort elsewhere than truly understanding a complex world God painted in shades of gray.  [shrugs]

If it was just me, or if this was the sort of forum where being so very, very loudly, stridently wrong just got you argued with, it would be different.  But this is a roomful of people mostly drama-averse to the point of shyness - they just stop commenting when someone keeps shouting awful things.  You're simply not as entertaining as all of them.

Now please go cool off, cool it with the fiction about poor people you don't understand when you come back, and drop that using liberal as an insult when your host counsels caution, and I'll forget this incident, more-or-less.  Okay?

I'm trying to work with you, here - it's not like I have to.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 18, 2015, 02:26:05 AM
Mentioning liberals in reply to a caution to watch your step on a subject connected to something you'd best avoid is a grave error, young man.  Strike one.

Also, anyone who thinks Mexican are lazy don't know anything about Mexicans.  Those people WORK.

Quote
Mentioning liberals

Like I said liberals just don't want to hear differing opinions.
Quote
Also, anyone who thinks Mexican are lazy don't know anything about Mexicans.  Those people WORK.


No they don't they are parasites living off the american taxpayer. Its the reason they come here.
Quote
http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/71-of-illegals-with-kids-collect-welfare/

Quote
INVASION USA
71% OF ILLEGALS WITH KIDS COLLECT WELFARE
Quote
http://thelawdictionary.org/article/why-is-it-that-illegal-aliens-get-free-food-stamps-health-insurance-and-pay-no-taxes/
Quote
Why is it that Illegal Aliens Get Free Food Stamps, Health Insurance and Pay No Taxes?
Written by James Hirby | Fact checked by The Law Dictionary staff 
Americans who are struggling to survive due to high unemployment and low wages may be asking why illegal aliens receive benefits from state and federal governments. Federal law does prevent illegal aliens from receiving benefits meant for American citizens. The only benefit that illegal aliens are allowed is emergency medical care.

Just because illegal aliens are not legally entitled to these benefits does not mean they do not apply for them. Yes. It is true that illegal aliens have received grants, professional accreditations, loans, WIC, disability, public housing, college educations, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and tax credits from state and federal agencies.


I agree that the majority of Mexican immigrants work very hard to survive in our country. I also realize that not all immigrants from this region originate in Mexico. This particular demographic, as with any particular demographic, has its share of negative individuals. The comment about Mexicans coming here as "parasites" reverbates a sterotypical generalization about individuals of this specific nationality.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 02:29:17 AM
Really, von.  Please go cool off before you post the post you're writing.  Please.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 18, 2015, 02:29:37 AM
Quote
http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
Quote
Thirteen years after welfare reform, the share of immigrant-headed households (legal and illegal) with a child (under age 18) using at least one welfare program continues to be very high. This is partly due to the large share of immigrants with low levels of education and their resulting low incomes — not their legal status or an unwillingness to work. The major welfare programs examined in this report include cash assistance, food assistance, Medicaid, and public and subsidized housing.

Among the findings:

In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

Immigrant households’ use of welfare tends to be much higher than natives for food assistance programs and Medicaid. Their use of cash and housing programs tends to be similar to native households.

A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households with children is received on behalf of their U.S.-born children, who are American citizens. But even households with children comprised entirely of immigrants (no U.S.-born children) still had a welfare use rate of 56 percent in 2009.

Immigrant households with children used welfare programs at consistently higher rates than natives, even before the current recession. In 2001, 50 percent of all immigrant households with children used at least one welfare program, compared to 32 percent for natives.

Households with children with the highest welfare use rates are those headed by immigrants from the Dominican Republic (82 percent), Mexico and Guatemala (75 percent), and Ecuador (70 percent). Those with the lowest use rates are from the United Kingdom (7 percent), India (19 percent), Canada (23 percent), and Korea (25 percent).

The states where immigrant households with children have the highest welfare use rates are Arizona (62 percent); Texas, California, and New York (61 percent); Pennsylvania (59 percent); Minnesota and Oregon (56 percent); and Colorado (55 percent).

We estimate that 52 percent of households with children headed by legal immigrants used at least one welfare program in 2009, compared to 71 percent for illegal immigrant households with children. Illegal immigrants generally receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children.

Illegal immigrant households with children primarily use food assistance and Medicaid, making almost no use of cash or housing assistance. In contrast, legal immigrant households tend to have relatively high use rates for every type of program.


They shouldn't even be here on these programs in the first place.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 18, 2015, 02:36:22 AM
I fail to understand the need to argue about the legality of a group with a wide variety of circumstances that brought them to this country. The sweeping generalizations about this topic, as mentioned above by BUncle, fail to take into account the unique circumstances inherent to each case.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 18, 2015, 02:43:49 AM
Von, if Canada spoke nothing but French and had jobs paying 40 dollars an hour, no skills necessary, no citizenship really needed, and the US had nothing but 3-4 abusive employers to choose from A LOT of folks would hike across that border in a hurry. There would even be American communities there, there would be so many folks.

As far as them getting healthcare, this should be okay for everyone as a human right. Welfare is what a civilized society does. It should be universal along with housing. Either that or a certain amount per month for everyone for just survival. But, the AMA and insurance companies won't have it unless you shut them down. And, the landlords want others to work so they do not have to.

What's with all the vitriol? These people are taking jobs a lot do not like. Farm hand? That is some tough, hard, hot, sweaty work.

Maybe if the labor pool disappeared, though, through MORE welfare MORE rent controls, employers would have to treat folks a bit better instead of cattle and the crap jobs would disappear.

Now.... INVADING and ANNEXING Mexico, that might make sense from an evil sort of view and better that some theocracy in a desert.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 18, 2015, 03:02:27 AM
Watching the debate, I saw the frontrunner in a new light.

Normally, as a candidate he's been the posterior end of a digestive tract towards anybody who dared to criticize him. After doing so, Bush, Carson, and Fiorina all received stump speech tongue lashings the following day. There's something to be said for a guy as a potential national leader who hits back at the aggressor twice as hard. I can understand that.

Last night, rather than pointing that out, and asking his competitors if they are slow to understand that, and standing by what he said, he WEASLED! Almost as if Rand Paul had gotten through to him with the "Jr. High" comment that he was in the wrong and not acting presidential. He didn't act like a man and accept full responsibility for his words and actions and deliver proper apologies, either. There's  something to be said, too, for a guy as a potential national leader who doesn't shirk responsibility. Better yet, there's something to be said for a guy as a potential national leader who gets his facts straight before he strikes.

I can understand a consistent posterior end of a digestive tract, and I can respect somebody who accepts full responsibility for their words and deeds, but a WEASEL?!!
We already have Hillary! We don't need any more weasels. We need an open season on weasels.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 03:05:25 AM
I think you're too hard on Mrs. Clinton -but only somewhat- or I'd just say total agreement.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 18, 2015, 03:22:05 AM
She's the only politician I hate. I try to be up front about that.

Listen to/read her statements about her foolish private e-mail account. Mia Culpa? Apologize?  Neva! Hedge. Obfuscate. Trivialize. Joke.
Weasel. Weasel. Weasel.  The lawyer can't help herself.

She's no Truman Democrat.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 18, 2015, 03:30:18 AM
She's the only politician I hate. I try to be up front about that.

Listen to/read her statements about her foolish private e-mail account. Mia Culpa? Apologize?  Neva! Hedge. Obfuscate. Trivialize. Joke.
Weasel. Weasel. Weasel.  The lawyer can't help herself.

She's no Truman Democrat.

No. She is an appeaser. She would have done better being like, "Okay.. I used that email for stuff. So what?"

Unfortunately, [Sleezebag] will crush her if it comes to him and her like I predict. And, I am not sure a [Sleezebag] future is going to be very cool for some...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 03:44:59 AM
Only somewhat, I said, Rusty.  I look at the same things, and do see a weasel, but don't feel as strongly about it.

I went from loving her as First Lady -I'm sure you felt otherwise- to hating her as a senator, to thinking she did well with Secretary of State -  I think I put a finger on the last nicely at lunch just today; "she was Secretary of State while she was Secretary of State; not running for president."

Now, where I get REALLY down on her is personal loyalty.  The Pig might be a better friend to have -I said might- than her and her husband, who have created all their problems with professional Clinton haters by leaving a trail of broken, betrayed 'friends' behind them wherever they've gone for their entire political lives.  They'd throw you under a bus soon as look at you.  Nixon could have gotten away with everything if he hadn't shown the PERSONALLY admirable quality of loyalty to his people when he found out they'd done a bad thing.  Never happen to one of the Clintons - on a personal behavior level, they lose more points with me for that than he does for his inexcusable sexual acting out.  They are just no-good trash when it comes to rewarding loyalty with loyalty.

-But on the other hand, she did Nixon one better than the Checkers speech when she put Whitewater to bed as much as ever possible by going into a roomful of reports and answering questions until they ran. out. of. questions.

About. WHITEWATER.  I think you have to respect the balls to do that, and the virtuosity to make it work.

I do not like her personally, or her (weasel) style as a candidate - and devoutly wish she would go home.  Maybe try to set up as a political kingmaker/consultant grooming people like Elizabeth Warren and keep her hand in, but her mouth and face out.  But I'm not completely without respect for her.

...

And Green - I swear my dog could give the Pig a good fight in the general.  People say lots to pollsters 16 months out; when it's time to vote, most want somebody qualified and smart, Cheney's mouthpiece notwithstanding - who wasn't elected anyway.  The Bosses want Jeb, besides, Mylochka says, and bets against the backroom boys are for suckers...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on September 18, 2015, 03:55:37 AM
Quote
And Green - I swear my dog could give the Pig a good fight in the general.  People say lots to pollsters 16 months out; when it's time to vote, most want somebody qualified and smart, Cheney's mouthpiece notwithstanding - who wasn't elected anyway.  The Bosses want Jeb, besides, Mylochka says, and bets against the backroom boys are for suckers...

Not so sure. Some of the folks I call at work are VERY simple minded and actually would be with this guy. It is like a friggin Conservative zombie apocalypse with isolated pockets of sanity in my neck of the woods.

I will eat it, if wrong, though.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 04:22:33 AM
He'll never be president.  He lost Rupert Murdock/Roger Ailes completely before the first debate, and made sure Murdock's mouthpieces will never forget it afterwards.  Too much power is arrayed against him, and a lot more money than he has.

He's the answer to a question no one asked: "I like Sara Palin's stubbornly proud shrill ignorance and utter lack of qualification or any inclination to EVER learn, but can we have a male version without any of the looks and even MORE annoying to hear talk, if that's even possible, please?"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 18, 2015, 05:07:49 AM
Only somewhat, I said, Rusty.  I look at the same things, and do see a weasel, but don't feel as strongly about it.

I went from loving her as First Lady -I'm sure you felt otherwise- to hating her as a senator, to thinking she did well with Secretary of State -  I think I put a finger on the last nicely at lunch just today; "she was Secretary of State while she was Secretary of State; not running for president."

Now, where I get REALLY down on her is personal loyalty.  The Pig might be a better friend to have -I said might- than her and her husband, who have created all their problems with professional Clinton haters by leaving a trail of broken, betrayed 'friends' behind them wherever they've gone for their entire political lives.  They'd throw you under a bus soon as look at you.  Nixon could have gotten away with everything if he hadn't shown the PERSONALLY admirable quality of loyalty to his people when he found out they'd done a bad thing.  Never happen to one of the Clintons - on a personal behavior level, they lose more points with me for that than he does for his inexcusable sexual acting out.  They are just no-good trash when it comes to rewarding loyalty with loyalty.

-But on the other hand, she did Nixon one better than the Checkers speech when she put Whitewater to bed as much as ever possible by going into a roomful of reports and answering questions until they ran. out. of. questions.

About. WHITEWATER.  I think you have to respect the balls to do that, and the virtuosity to make it work.

I do not like her personally, or her (weasel) style as a candidate - and devoutly wish she would go home.  Maybe try to set up as a political kingmaker/consultant grooming people like Elizabeth Warren and keep her hand in, but her mouth and face out.  But I'm not completely without respect for her.

Uh ... generally agree that she tried to be Secretary of State. I think she applied herself, and did a better job than Albright. Mostly I think of that period as what I love most about Obama- he exiled Hillary so that I didn't have to see on tv every night as senate spokesperson.

I had a different take on that Whitewater press conference. She was insincere or deceitful with every thing she said. It was a PR stunt to her. I thought it was an insult to my intelligence, and turned it off in disgust in short order. So if you saw the whole thing, or even a substantial fraction of it, you know more about it than I do.

Bill might have done the same thing and convinced me, because he really wants me to like him, and sometimes I kinda do like him, even though I don't trust him. I suspect he tells her what to say when she gets in trouble, but it doesn't play so well because nobody's convinced she really cares about us and our approval.

Well... I've had a hard day. Got rear ended while sitting at a stop light on a long straight 50 mph road. We were about the 4th car in line at the light in the center lane. Didn't see him coming. Didn't hear brakes. Knocked us into the car ahead and terrorized some children in it. Lucky for them we were there to absorb the brunt of the impact. The offending driver had no insurance. We suspect texting.

I think I'm going to drink some rum or brandy, take a long hot shower, and maybe relax my aching neck and back. Thinking about her doesn't help. I'll drop the subject.

"The answer to the question no one asked" Ha- Ha -HA!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 18, 2015, 04:26:17 PM
And Green - I swear my dog could give the Pig a good fight in the general.

Maybe in the Republican nomination too.  After all, your dog is clearly not phony, and has a much better personality than [Sleezebag]...

Unfortunately, your dog can't run for president...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 04:28:39 PM
He IS smarter than her, at least...

He's the answer to another question no one asked "I love Governor Christie's low-class pettily-combative northern Joisy style, but he usually sounds like he knows what he's talking about; can we have a stupid version with even less good looks and NO class at all?"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 18, 2015, 06:41:12 PM
I like Sara Palin's stubbornly proud shrill ignorance and utter lack of qualification or any inclination to EVER learn


(http://img.huffingtonpost.com//asset/scalefit_550_400_noupscale/55c50bf31d00002f001443a3.jpeg)

I really try to be a fair person, so I want to say something positive and true about Mrs. Palin:  her finest moment, as far as I'm aware, was the vice presidential debate with Biden - when she walked over to greet him at the beginning, looking all tiny and wasp-waisted in her dark dress, BTW, and asked him "Is okay if I call you Joe?" - I don't think she knew the mics would catch that, and it was pure adorable charm and win.  She also kinda sorta won that debate, benefitting from very low expectations, by not humiliating herself.  She had a good night that night.

(Biden actually has some of the same/simular strengths and weaknesses as Palin, but on an entirely different level as a politician/public servant, and going the distance with him was a real accomplishment.)

I also have to walk back something I said about her the week after the election: "The silly [censored] is already running for president."  -Turns out that she didn't really know just what she was running for -running for (the anti) Oprah, if anything- but did figure out at some point that her celebrity was a bully pulpit for her political beliefs, but that she was in way over her head as a candidate/office-holder at any substantial level, or she'd have actually run for some office since.  -So, some points for that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 19, 2015, 01:07:44 AM
I like Sara Palin's stubbornly proud shrill ignorance and utter lack of qualification or any inclination to EVER learn


(http://img.huffingtonpost.com//asset/scalefit_550_400_noupscale/55c50bf31d00002f001443a3.jpeg)

I really try to be a fair person, so I want to say something positive and true about Mrs. Palin:  her finest moment, as far as I'm aware, was the vice presidential debate with Biden - when she walked over to greet him at the beginning, looking all tiny and wasp-waisted in her dark dress, BTW, and asked him "Is okay if I call you Joe?" - I don't think she knew the mics would catch that, and it was pure adorable charm and win.  She also kinda sorta won that debate, benefitting from very low expectations, by not humiliating herself.  She had a good night that night.

(Biden actually has some of the same/simular strengths and weaknesses as Palin, but on an entirely different level as a politician/public servant, and going the distance with him was a real accomplishment.)

I also have to walk back something I said about her the week after the election: "The silly [censored] is already running for president."  -Turns out that she didn't really know just what she was running for -running for (the anti) Oprah, if anything- but did figure out at some point that her celebrity was a bully pulpit for her political beliefs, but that she was in way over her head as a candidate/office-holder at any substantial level, or she'd have actually run for some office since.  -So, some points for that.

The words on those shirts have a potential interpretation to me that might vary from other individuals on this forum.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 01:18:57 AM
Ohmygod!  Like, what?

I assume it's some Alaska reference to the Wasilla area...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 19, 2015, 02:45:46 AM
Ohmygod!  Like, what?

I assume it's some Alaska reference to the Wasilla area...
I was thinking about the term "Valley Girls" plus trash except as you might find it in Alaska :) . . .
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 02:50:24 AM
Totally?

-I have no idea what those bimbos actually say these days.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 19, 2015, 03:08:15 AM
Ohmygod!  Like, what?

I assume it's some Alaska reference to the Wasilla area...

From Urban Dictionary-
Valley Trash

The term that Alaskan State Senator Ben Stevens called a residents of the Matanuska-Susitna valley in southern Alaska who was criticizing his vague explanations for taking consulting fees from an oil field-services company in 2004.


“Your just more valley trash” sic

From Wikipedia-

In July 2004, Stevens responded to a critical e-mail from a constituent with the comment, "Your [sic] just more valley trash," setting off a minor controversy among residents of the Matanuska-Susitna Valley, including former Wasilla mayor (and future Alaska Governor) Sarah Palin.[3] "Proud to Be Valley Trash" became a slogan among Mat-Su Valley residents, and Palin was photographed wearing a t-shirt with the slogan during her successful 2006 campaign for Governor of Alaska.
********************************************************

Ben Stevens is the sons of Ted Stevens- who was the longest serving Republican in US Senate history. Seniority begets power, and power corrupts. The Anchorage Airport had his name on it while he was still alive.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 03:16:17 AM
Interesting.  I used that photo unfairly out of context without knowing, then.

It's still funny. ;)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 19, 2015, 03:42:04 AM
I Like Alaska. More than Disney World.
I like Sarah. I knew about her before the rest of the country did. Not as a national politician or political analyst, but as somebody I'd enjoy fishing with, or discussing a hunt, or touring Alaska.

That's it! I would pay good money for an Alaska tour on which she was the hostess.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 19, 2015, 03:45:36 AM
I enjoyed her style of humor. I did not necessarily agree with her political positions.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 03:50:39 AM
You know?  She would probably be very good at that.  The woman has charm when she's not saying ignorant things about current events.

-I DO still wonder where she got that Wiscaaahnsin accident in Alaska, though.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 19, 2015, 05:37:40 AM
http://www.thenation.com/article/rand-paul-made-some-of-the-few-sensible-points-of-the-whole-debate/ (http://www.thenation.com/article/rand-paul-made-some-of-the-few-sensible-points-of-the-whole-debate/)  They offer an article presenting pretty much everything Paul said at the debate
in one easy to read package.

"Unlike [Sleezebag], Rand Paul Actually Made Some Sensible Points During the Debate

The Kentucky senator cut through the “childish, silly back-and-forth” to present reasonable alternatives on foreign policy, drug reform, and mass incarceration. "


"Paul distinguished  himself with coherent questioning of mass incarceration, calls for criminal-justice reform, and aggressive referencing of the injustices that extend from a failed drug war. The senator from Kentucky had one of the best moments of the debate when, during a back-and-forth over Jeb Bush’s youthful inhaling of marijuana, Paul put things into perspective for the former Florida governor: “Kids who have privilege like you do don’t go to jail. But the poor kids in the inner city still go to jail.”

And when the debate turned to foreign policy, Paul made more sense than the rest of the runners combined.

“I’ve made my career as an opponent of the Iraq War,” declared the senator, who reminded the crowd that “The Iraq War backfired and did not help us.”

There's much more, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 05:43:38 AM
Yeah; it may not have been enough, but he had a good night.

I really think a winning reaction to the Pig in the room is to be LESS pander-y; you'll never out-ignorant the actual ignoramus, so don't try. Be the grownup at the debates, and people will remember when they get serious about choosing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 19, 2015, 06:12:25 AM
Here's one from the Chicago Tribune.  I quoted the editorial excerpts, rather than Rand Paul, but they tie together rather nicely in the context of this article.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-kass-debate-wrapup-met-0918-20150917-column.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-kass-debate-wrapup-met-0918-20150917-column.html)


"In debate showdown, Rand Paul the only adult on stage" by John Kass

Donald [Sleezebag] wanted to kick him off the debate stage. Fox News ignored him. CNN limited his time, then called him a loser.

But Rand Paul won the Republican presidential debate.


It wasn't even close.

Is he perfect, or some savior on a white horse? No. Yet the others on the debate stage talked like angry children determined to show the world how tough they'd be. They promised to rip up the Iran deal and either push Vladimir Putin around or ignore him completely.
 


But Paul, the senator from Kentucky, spoke like a thoughtful grown-up, overshadowing them all on foreign policy, explaining that intervening in Middle East civil wars is a recipe for disaster."

"The GOP establishment can afford a Carly Fiorina, pretending to be an outsider, or even a Marco Rubio, thrilling a few of the TV talking heads by morphing into some Leonidas of Sparta from Miami, eager to kick those insolent Persian envoys down the well.

But what the Republican establishment cannot afford is Paul as their nominee. That would expose the neocons and the war party, and the security surveillance state.
And it might help remind Americans that conservatives once opposed foreign adventures, meaning wars, because wars by definition lead to the aggrandizement of federal power.

It is the universal law of political arithmetic that as the government gorges and muscles up, individual liberty fades."

"Yet it was obvious from their flexing and posturing and saber rattling that the other Republicans insist on not learning a thing from Iraq.

And so, they'd love to face Hillary Clinton. She never met a war she didn't like.

If Hillary is in the finals with Jeb! or Rubio or even Fiorina — our new Joan of Arc who talked of building warships and recruiting brigades of U.S. Marines — the Republicans will be saved from having to confront their past."

*****************************************************

I'll let Rand Paul have the last word-

"Sometimes both sides of the civil war are evil, and sometimes intervention sometimes makes us less safe," Paul said. "This is the real debate we have to have in the Middle East.

"Every time we have toppled a secular dictator, we have gotten chaos, the rise of radical Islam, and we're more at risk. So I think we need to think before we act, and know most interventions, if not a lot of them in the Middle East, have actually backfired on us."




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 19, 2015, 12:15:51 PM
Rand Paul is a sell out. Cnn and Fox can cheer lead for him all they like but
[Sleezebag] will flatten him. He isn't Ron Paul and his fathers supporters know it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 02:35:33 PM
I've thought he's pandered extensively in the past, and that was why I was so down on him - but this Rand the other night was acting like he was his father's son, talking what's sensible instead of what's popular.  I like the heck out of that.  I like integrity and I like guts.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 19, 2015, 05:42:30 PM
vonbach-  Buncle and I have discussed that before, and have agreed that he's a sell-out, not the man his father was, not the disposition to be president. That's probably why he took a nose-dive in the polls.

I don't think he said the word Israel once all night.

With a field of 14 candidates- wouldn't it be great to have an alternative to NeoCons, TheoCons, and CEOCons?

....Well, wouldn't it?

Funny, I was looking for articles about the frontrunner and Carson and Carly post-debate, and sort of got side tracked when I saw Paul headlines. I had already written him off. During the debate I was looking for some of the others to break out of the pack, or slip and fall. I didn't appreciate Paul's remarks in the context of their entirety at the time.

After I posted that stuff last night I got an e-mail from Ron Paul asking me to donate to Rand. Since I respect Ron, since Rand is saying the right things once again, and since the GOP and the nation really needs to hear that message, I think I'll contribute.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 05:47:00 PM
I respect and support that decision.  If things were otherwise, I might deplore it, but improvement and good behavior should be rewarded.

NeoCons, TheoCons, and CEOCons
We might have ourselves a real winner in that last. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 19, 2015, 07:58:18 PM
I had to take a cheap shot this morning for using "desperate hooker" in the same sentence with "McCain", and since the whole of what I think of the man has just not come up online in the years since I got a fast internet connection, in the same spirit as the saying something nice I'd always thought about Palin (and I left out that I totally agree that she's good-looking, in fact, the sexy librarian look is very much a favorite of mine) here's what I think of Senator McCain.

In the middle of the 2008 campaign that I'm so down on him for pandering so desperately throughout, he stopped an old lady who worked that Bakrama is a Muslim into a question at a town hall meeting, put his hand on the mic and quietly but firmly  said "He's not."  -That there weren't a bit pander-y; that was an honest man standing up to a lie when letting it pass would have served his goals.

In his concession speech, and this is at the heart of my admiration of the Senator, he said "He's my president and I support him."

Let's bold that and pump up the size a little.  That is gracious, that shows class and statesmanship, contrasted with much irrational outrage on the right the next day and ever since.  That was said because that's what a non-sore loser ought to, for the good of the country.  THAT -and the fellow at the town hall- is the Real John McCain, American Hero.

I disagree with him profoundly about many social conservative positions and clowns he supports, but cannot ignore what he's said and done about trying to reform a sick and corrupt political system in a life of public service.  Dude wants good government for me and everyone, not just his power base.  Period.

He's one of my senators, and I support him when he isn't wrong, which is frequently.  I respect him and admire him (which is why I'm so disappointed in and negative about McCain 2008 as opposed to McCain 2000 with the important exceptions I've noted here).  I think he's an extraordinarily good man, who thinks about problems in the system and tries to implement solutions.

He would have made a better president than either of the damaged goods who made it to the general election in 2000.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 20, 2015, 12:32:48 AM
Quote
vonbach-  Buncle and I have discussed that before, and have agreed that he's a sell-out, not the man his father was, not the disposition to be president. That's probably why he took a nose-dive in the polls.
Ron Paul went to the wailing wall thats enough.
If you had went to a foreign country to pander for votes in any other age you'd be looking at prison time.
Quote
here's what I think of Senator McCain.

Ah yes songbird McCain. Thats what the vets call him. He should be hung for treason.
Its well known that he cooperated with the enemy at that time.
He was also responsible for the USS Forestall fire that killed 167 people.
He had to be transferred to another ship to avoid getting lynched.
The only reason he wasn't hung is his daddy was an admiral.
Quote
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07/21/john-sidney-mccain-iii-patriot-or-trader/

Quote
Had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is no chance he would have been accepted into the prestigious naval flight training program over far better qualified officers. On his way to becoming a North Vietnamese ace, the aviator lost 3 expensive aircraft on routine, non-combat flights. Little was made of all that, because he was, you know, the son and grandson of admirals.

John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,” an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.

Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.
Quote
John McCain’s 5½-year stay at the Hanoi Hilton (officially Hoa Loa Prison) has ever since been the subject of great controversy. He maintains that he was tortured and otherwise badly mistreated. One of many who disagree is Dennis Johnson, imprisoned at Hanoi and never given treatment for his broken leg.

He reports that every time he saw McCain, who was generally kept segregated, the man was clean-shaven, dressed in fresh clothes, and appeared comfortable among North Vietnamese Army officers. He adds that he frequently heard McCain’s collaborative statements broadcast over the prison’s loud speakers.

On October 26, 1967, John McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi. The fractures of 1 leg and both arms were reportedly due to his failure to tuck them in during ejection. According to U.S. News & World Report (May 14, 1973),

John McCain didn’t wait long before offering military information in return for medical care. While an extraordinary patient at Gi Lam Hospital, he was visited by a number of dignitaries, including, to quote John McCain himself, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the national hero of Dienbienphu.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 20, 2015, 12:39:57 AM
;...

You just never cease to amaze, von.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 20, 2015, 12:52:48 AM
BTW he's also well known for being a lunatic. Literally insane. As in he starts screaming about nuking Russia
or Iran and throwing fax machines at staffers. He got on air once and started singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."
Its the reason he wont ever be allowed to be president.
Its simply too dangerous.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 20, 2015, 02:33:10 AM
vonbach-  Buncle and I have discussed that before, and have agreed that he's a sell-out, not the man his father was, not the disposition to be president. That's probably why he took a nose-dive in the polls.

I don't think he said the word Israel once all night.

With a field of 14 candidates- wouldn't it be great to have an alternative to NeoCons, TheoCons, and CEOCons?

There is...unfortunately, Donald [Sleezebag] is arguably worse than any of those.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 20, 2015, 02:39:38 AM
Dumbocrats?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 20, 2015, 03:11:04 AM
BTW he's also well known for being a lunatic. Literally insane. As in he starts screaming about nuking Russia
or Iran and throwing fax machines at staffers. He got on air once and started singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."
Its the reason he wont ever be allowed to be president.
Its simply too dangerous.

I have no knowledge with regard to his sanity.

I would certainly agree that any boss who throws a fax machine at staff is a bad boss.

As for the "Bomb Iran" song, it was popular during the Hostage Crisis. Catchy tune, that. Lots of people preferred the idea of retaliation to 444 days of handwringing, back in the day.
McCain doing that isn't so different than Regan's sound check for his radio broadcast in which he said something like The Soviet Union will cease to exist in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... as a joke. I don't think that proved Regan was crazy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 20, 2015, 03:59:03 AM
Mark down that I defended Reagan about something - I thought it was just a joke, if impolitic and embarrassing, and that he nailed the delivery.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 20, 2015, 06:06:35 AM

Quote
here's what I think of Senator McCain.

Ah yes songbird McCain. Thats what the vets call him. He should be hung for treason.
Its well known that he cooperated with the enemy at that time.
He was also responsible for the USS Forestall fire that killed 167 people.
He had to be transferred to another ship to avoid getting lynched.
The only reason he wasn't hung is his daddy was an admiral.
Quote
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07/21/john-sidney-mccain-iii-patriot-or-trader/
 

That article has a byline of "unattributed"

1 & 2) I never heard that before.
3) No, he was not responsible for the Forrestal fire.
4) As best I can tell, he left the warship in a combat zone without permission. First he went to Saigon and got drunk, then he arranged to get himself posted to another carrier. If you want to hang him as a deserter, you have a point. He wasn't transferred to avoid a lynching. He could very well have been so eager to fight the enemy ( if only for career reasons ) that he couldn't wait to get back in the cockpit.
5) As the son and grandson of 4star admirals, his dad still serving, I wouldn't be surprised if he got preferential treatment sometimes, even without anybody asking for it.

Had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is no chance he would have been accepted into the prestigious naval flight training program over far better qualified officers. On his way to becoming a North Vietnamese ace, the aviator lost 3 expensive aircraft on routine, non-combat flights. Little was made of all that, because he was, you know, the son and grandson of admirals.

I don't know if he was accepted into the program over far better qualified officers or not. I certainly agree that an ordinary pilot would have been grounded.


John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,” an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.


There's no denying that McCain was a hotshot A-4 pilot. Perhaps he did this sometime.

Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.




NO.
 
1) He was parked with his tail hanging over the ocean. Therefore, there was no plane behind him. It doesn't matter if he wet started or not.
2) The fire was started by an F4 on the opposite side of the flight deck, due to circumventing of the safety protocols ( in an effort to launch more planes in a shorter period of time ) and a power surge in the switch from external to internal power. It launched the rocket. The rocket DID NOT cook off. The rocket started the fire. The fire did not start the rocket.
3) The rocket struck the A-4 sitting beside McCain, and possibly his as well, as you described.
The rocket started the fire, as you described. It didn't detonate, but it had a hot exhaust. What made matters worse is that the carrier had obsolete bombs that were leaking, and should have been disposed of rather than used. That's what killed so many men.

4) John McCain did not cause the USS Forrestal fire. He was nearly killed in it like the pilot beside him. Neither did he stick around to help his ravaged ship and shipmates in the aftermath of the fire.

Feel free to hate the guy, but don't blame him for the Forrestal Tragedy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 20, 2015, 06:19:20 AM
Siiigh.  I try to say something fair and even-handed, and this ugliness results.  I can't win.

(Nothing to do with you, Rusty, except you need to fix the formatting on that post, bad.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 20, 2015, 06:44:38 AM
Going to bed. Too tired to notice anything was wrong, even after you pointed  out my error.

I will post what I was about to post -
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/09/19/straw-poll-rand-paul-tops-among-mich-gop-activists/72504936/ (http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/09/19/straw-poll-rand-paul-tops-among-mich-gop-activists/72504936/)


Mackinac Island — Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul won the presidential straw poll at this weekend’s Mackinac Republican Leadership Conference, capturing 22 percent of the vote among a field of 16 candidates.

Former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina came in second with 15 percent, followed by Ohio Gov. John Kasich in third place with 13.8 percent and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz in fourth with 13 percent in The Detroit News/MIRS presidential straw poll.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush finished fifth in the straw poll with 9.7 percent of the 785 registered conference attendees who voted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 20, 2015, 06:50:09 AM
...

Too bad half those people even placed, but given the givens, I see Bush last and Paul I-hope-he-keeps-non-pandery first, and I'll take it.  I could read that list of names all day.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 20, 2015, 08:17:31 AM
Quote
Feel free to hate the guy, but don't blame him for the Forrestal Tragedy.


Lol I've seen the video. Yeah He caused it.
Oh just FYI his father was the one investigating it.
He was also covered up the USS liberty incident.

Quote
Perhaps he did this sometime.

Its not really in doubt, I've seen the footage myself.
They showed the raw footage on air.

Quote
http://criminalstate.com/press/Chapter4.pdf
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 20, 2015, 09:14:48 PM
ON TOPIC

As I predicted, Fiorina gains at the frontrunner's expense.

-republican-2016-poll/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/20/politics/carly-fiorina-donald-[Sleezebag]-republican-2016-poll/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/20/politics/carly-fiorina-donald-[Sleezebag)

"
Washington (CNN)—Carly Fiorina shot into second place in the Republican presidential field on the heels of another strong debate performance, and Donald [Sleezebag] has lost some support, a new national CNN/ORC poll shows.

The survey, conducted in the three days after 23 million people tuned in to Wednesday night's GOP debate on CNN, shows that [Sleezebag] is still the party's front-runner with 24% support. That, though, is an 8 percentage point decrease from earlier in the month when a similar poll had him at 32%.
Fiorina ranks second with 15% support -- up from 3% in early September. She's just ahead of Ben Carson's 14%, though Carson's support has also declined from 19% in the previous poll.

Driving [Sleezebag]'s drop and Fiorina's rise: a debate in which 31% of Republicans who watched said [Sleezebag] was the loser, and 52% identified Fiorina as the winner.
***********************************************

But one established politician has seen his standing rise after flashing foreign policy chops on the debate stage. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida -- identified as Wednesday's winner by 14% of Republicans, putting him second behind Fiorina -- is now in fourth place with 11% support, up from 3% in a previous poll.

In fifth place is former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, at 9%. He's followed by Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee at 6% each, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky at 4%, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie at 3%, Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 2% and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania at 1%.

Five other candidates received less than one-half of 1 percentage point support: former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, former New York Gov. George Pataki and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker. "


****************************************************

I must admit I'm shocked that Walker has tanked. He'd be trading palaces at the kid's table with Santorum. That's pretty bad. I think the Scott Walker at the last debate was the real Scott Walker.
If that doesn't appeal to Republicans at the Reagan Library, it sounds like I get to keep my governor. As I said, he'll remain in the race as long as the Koch brothers say so. I'm sure he'd like to last until the debate scheduled for Wisconsin, at least.

The poll also tracks favorability, comparing the net likability of each person.
Current rankings- Carson, Rubio, Fiorina, Huckabee, Cruz, and [Sleezebag]. Biggest gainer Fiorina. Biggest loser [Sleezebag].

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 20, 2015, 09:26:16 PM
-still-leads-n430316]http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-online-survey-fiorina-won-debate-[Sleezebag]-still-leads-n430316 (http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/nbc-online-survey-fiorina-won-debate-[Sleezebag)

This is a different sort of survey, but still shows a Fiorina surge at [Sleezebag]'s expense, and a Walker nosedive.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 21, 2015, 01:13:35 AM
Quote
Campaign Staffers Making Progress Conditioning Hillary Clinton To Replicate Emotions
The Onion
NEWS  September 16, 2015   Vol 51 Issue 37     


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5133/5/16x9/1200.jpg)
Staffers test Clinton’s emotional responses by reading through a list of triggering phrases such as “rising unemployment,” “first in their family to graduate college,” and “devastated by a tornado.”



BROOKLYN, NY—After several months of diligent effort, staff members working on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign confirmed Wednesday they have made significant progress in conditioning her to convincingly recreate and convey a limited spectrum of emotions.

According to aides who drill the Democratic frontrunner for several hours each day on her emotional responses to a variety of stimuli, Clinton can now effectively exhibit concern, mild excitement, and incredulity. Intensive training is reportedly still underway on some of the more challenging-to-produce emotions, such as polite interest and personal warmth.

“The headway Hillary has made is really encouraging, especially when you consider what we started with,” said staffer Cheryl Dumás, who later added that when she began working with Clinton, the candidate was only able to fluctuate between stony neutrality and terrifying anger. “We’re very proud that she can now display a virtually indistinguishable facsimile of empathy. It’s the result of a behavioral modification technique in which we rigorously reinforce any approximations of compassion that happen to flash across her face while she listens to the concerns of voters.”

“We’re hopeful that she’ll have a functional range of 11 or even 12 emotions by the time the early primaries roll around,” Dumás added.

In her current program of operant conditioning, Clinton is reportedly shown a series of images—such as a widow crying at her spouse’s funeral, a family opening presents on Christmas morning, and former House speaker Newt Gingrich—designed to induce specific emotional responses, and depending on the appropriateness of her subsequent facial expressions and other body language, she is either rewarded or punished.

Staffers said they began the process by slowly and painstakingly pairing a correct reaction with a correct stimulus. They reportedly first trained the former secretary of state to reproduce a “happy” emotion by repeatedly showing her a photo of a small child playing with a kitten and then rubbing a soft cloth on her face while physically holding her mouth in the shape of a smile until, eventually, she could display a passable simulacrum of joy.

“There are definitely some crossed wires, like how she nods and applauds after hearing the story of a family that lost their home to foreclosure,” campaign consultant Allison Stevens said. “But it’s just a matter of time and patience. When she gets a response wrong, we spritz her in the face with cold water from a spray bottle, and when she gets one right, we let her work on her memoirs for a little bit or call her ‘Madam President’ in soothing tones—she loves that.”

“She also really likes Luna Bars,” Stevens continued. “She’ll do just about anything for a Luna Bar!”

Staff members acknowledged that Clinton would be subject to extremely rapid regression if she were not conditioned with absolute consistency. They told reporters they didn’t want her to go back to the days when people she met on the campaign trail would voice their deepest worries and she would respond to each by loudly stating, “I am feeling empathy toward you.”

“There have definitely been some setbacks,” senior aide Tim Balducci said. “Yesterday, when a reporter asked for her thoughts on the surge in refugees crossing the Mediterranean, she panicked and rapidly cycled through the eight or so responses we’d equipped her with thus far before making a painfully stilted reply. We really hope to get that ironed out before the first debate next month.”

Other campaigns have taken note of Clinton’s progress and implemented similar programs, with Chris Christie’s staffers reporting this week that they have already had some limited success in training the New Jersey governor not to bite people or defecate on the floor.
http://www.theonion.com/article/campaign-staffers-making-progress-conditioning-hil-51320 (http://www.theonion.com/article/campaign-staffers-making-progress-conditioning-hil-51320)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 21, 2015, 05:14:38 AM
 ;lol Thanks, I needed that!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 21, 2015, 02:32:41 PM
I was very tempted to add to the picture caption "Here, she's experiencing a touch of gas, but her trainers think they can incorporate it into the behavior modification regime."

-And of course a lot of jokes about Christy pooping the floor and/or biting people are trying to write themselves...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 21, 2015, 10:27:01 PM
Just saw a headline that Governor Walker is about to officially drop out of the race in the next few hours...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 21, 2015, 11:17:07 PM
Yes. My wife read something to me about it.

His money has dried up. He had a larger organization than some, planning for the long campaign. He was loathe to lay anyone off. As governor, he always strived not to lay anyone off, even though he's an austere kind of guy. The official explanation is due within the hour, I may be cooking or dining when it happens, but I'll update tonight.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 22, 2015, 01:36:25 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/21/politics/scott-walker-drops-out-2016-election/ (http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/21/politics/scott-walker-drops-out-2016-election/)

"Scott Walker drops out of 2016 presidential race


Washington (CNN)—Scott Walker announced Monday he is dropping out of the GOP presidential race.

The Wisconsin governor entered the primary in July as a front-runner in Iowa and a darling of both the conservative base and powerful donors after winning battles against public unions in his left-leaning home state. But that promising start was quickly dashed after poor debate performances dried up support from donors.

"Today, I believe that I am being called to lead by helping to clear the field in this race so that a positive, conservative message can rise to the top of the field. With this in mind, I will suspend my campaign immediately," Walker said at a news conference in Madison, Wisconsin.

"I encourage other Republican presidential candidates to consider doing the same so that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive, conservative alternative to the current front-runner," said Walker, referencing businessman Donald [Sleezebag]. "This is fundamentally important to the future of our party, and, more important, the future of the country."

The governor called some of his top supporters earlier Monday afternoon informing them of his decision, according to one Walker insider. This person said Walker's recent plummet in the polls was a big factor in his decision-making.

He sounded "upbeat," they said, and his message to supporters was, "I did the best I could."


It goes on to say that the money dried up after the Ohio debate. His national poll numbers plummeted, too. With a collapse in his Iowa polls, he didn't see a way forward.

Local coverage indicates that while the campaign, ( which started late) was out of money , his PAC is still flush, and has a lot of Iowa airtime pre-purchased. There is speculation that his cooperation could lead to a cabinet office.
 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 22, 2015, 01:41:02 AM
Quote
Campaign Staffers Making Progress Conditioning Hillary Clinton To Replicate Emotions
The Onion
NEWS  September 16, 2015   Vol 51 Issue 37     


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5133/5/16x9/1200.jpg)
Staffers test Clinton’s emotional responses by reading through a list of triggering phrases such as “rising unemployment,” “first in their family to graduate college,” and “devastated by a tornado.”



BROOKLYN, NY—After several months of diligent effort, staff members working on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign confirmed Wednesday they have made significant progress in conditioning her to convincingly recreate and convey a limited spectrum of emotions.

According to aides who drill the Democratic frontrunner for several hours each day on her emotional responses to a variety of stimuli, Clinton can now effectively exhibit concern, mild excitement, and incredulity. Intensive training is reportedly still underway on some of the more challenging-to-produce emotions, such as polite interest and personal warmth.

“The headway Hillary has made is really encouraging, especially when you consider what we started with,” said staffer Cheryl Dumás, who later added that when she began working with Clinton, the candidate was only able to fluctuate between stony neutrality and terrifying anger. “We’re very proud that she can now display a virtually indistinguishable facsimile of empathy. It’s the result of a behavioral modification technique in which we rigorously reinforce any approximations of compassion that happen to flash across her face while she listens to the concerns of voters.”

“We’re hopeful that she’ll have a functional range of 11 or even 12 emotions by the time the early primaries roll around,” Dumás added.

In her current program of operant conditioning, Clinton is reportedly shown a series of images—such as a widow crying at her spouse’s funeral, a family opening presents on Christmas morning, and former House speaker Newt Gingrich—designed to induce specific emotional responses, and depending on the appropriateness of her subsequent facial expressions and other body language, she is either rewarded or punished.

Staffers said they began the process by slowly and painstakingly pairing a correct reaction with a correct stimulus. They reportedly first trained the former secretary of state to reproduce a “happy” emotion by repeatedly showing her a photo of a small child playing with a kitten and then rubbing a soft cloth on her face while physically holding her mouth in the shape of a smile until, eventually, she could display a passable simulacrum of joy.

“There are definitely some crossed wires, like how she nods and applauds after hearing the story of a family that lost their home to foreclosure,” campaign consultant Allison Stevens said. “But it’s just a matter of time and patience. When she gets a response wrong, we spritz her in the face with cold water from a spray bottle, and when she gets one right, we let her work on her memoirs for a little bit or call her ‘Madam President’ in soothing tones—she loves that.”

“She also really likes Luna Bars,” Stevens continued. “She’ll do just about anything for a Luna Bar!”

Staff members acknowledged that Clinton would be subject to extremely rapid regression if she were not conditioned with absolute consistency. They told reporters they didn’t want her to go back to the days when people she met on the campaign trail would voice their deepest worries and she would respond to each by loudly stating, “I am feeling empathy toward you.”

“There have definitely been some setbacks,” senior aide Tim Balducci said. “Yesterday, when a reporter asked for her thoughts on the surge in refugees crossing the Mediterranean, she panicked and rapidly cycled through the eight or so responses we’d equipped her with thus far before making a painfully stilted reply. We really hope to get that ironed out before the first debate next month.”

Other campaigns have taken note of Clinton’s progress and implemented similar programs, with Chris Christie’s staffers reporting this week that they have already had some limited success in training the New Jersey governor not to bite people or defecate on the floor.
http://www.theonion.com/article/campaign-staffers-making-progress-conditioning-hil-51320 (http://www.theonion.com/article/campaign-staffers-making-progress-conditioning-hil-51320)

That face strikes me as peculiar.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 22, 2015, 01:45:02 AM
It's gas.



I like the reason Walker gave.  True or not, classy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 22, 2015, 05:40:59 AM
...As in "Hey; let's some of us stop spitting into the wind and stop dividing the has-any-sense vote."..


-Except - if I was advising Christy and actually wanted him to win, I'd tell him to hang in there as long as he can - the Pig seems to be immune to shooting himself in the foot, but it's only a matter of time before he gets bored and goes home - his publicity stunt ran out of control, but he's not quite so stupid that he doesn't know that being president would cost him a great deal of his fortune, not running the business for years, or at least control of it if someone filled in well.  When he finds a pretext to throw a baby fit and go away --- you're [Sleezebag] for adults, if you're still in there.  He's stolen your thunder by being a parody of almost everything about you, only stupid and openly a bigot, like you and Sara Palin had an ugly old baby.

The anti-PC, the hard-butt law-and-order tough-talking stuff - that's you, only you actually know what you're talking about.  Hang in until his lowest-common-denominator shadow stops fouling the process.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 22, 2015, 02:45:10 PM
...As in "Hey; let's some of us stop spitting into the wind and stop dividing the has-any-sense vote."..


-Except - if I was advising Christy and actually wanted him to win, I'd tell him to hang in there as long as he can - the Pig seems to be immune to shooting himself in the foot

Actually, I suspect that he is not really immune, but rather has figured out how to reverse the effects when his nominal target deserves it...and the field is full of people who deserve it, enough that he use them to recover from the exceptions like McCain.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 23, 2015, 12:03:39 AM
I've probably not been clear that I think Governor Christie looks pretty good standing in the back of the clown college this cycle...

Quote
Christie tells National Guard leader to slim down
Associated Press  Published September 22, 2015


(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./876/493/christiegeneral2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Sept. 28, 2014: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, left, and New Jersey Adjutant General Brig. Gen. Michael Cunniff, right, review troops during the New Jersey National Guard's annual Military Review in Sea Girt, N.J. (AP)



TRENTON, N.J. –  Gov. Chris Christie wants the leader of New Jersey's National Guard to shape up.

The governor has given Air Force Brig. Gen. Michael Cunniff 90 days to slim down and meet his obligations.

The action comes after Christie's staff told The Washington Post that the governor was unaware the general had been reprimanded by the Pentagon about his weight and for repeatedly dodging physical-fitness tests.

The newspaper obtained the records under the Freedom of Information Act.

Christie declined a request for an interview.

"The Governor has expressed directly to the General that his failure to meet that standard or to provide notification of his formal reprimand is both unacceptable and disappointing," Christie spokesman Kevin Roberts said in an emailed statement.

The governor has given Cunniff 90 days to slim down and "meet his obligations," Roberts wrote.

It was not clear how much weight the general must lose. Cunniff took a fitness test in November 2013, his first in more than three years. He flunked when his waist size was measured at 43.5 inches — 4.5 inches larger than what was allowed.

Cunniff declined an interview request. But the National Guard released a statement in which the general acknowledged he failed to meet the Air Force's fitness requirements in recent years.

"Many people struggle with weight control — I am not immune from this," the general said in the statement. "However, I do recognize that military members and leaders, like myself, are held to a higher standard. I take this matter seriously and am taking the necessary steps to remedy this issue," the general said.

Christie, who once called himself "the healthiest fat guy you've ever seen," secretly underwent weight-loss surgery in 2013. A band was surgically placed around his stomach to restrict how much food he could eat.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/christie-tells-national-guard-leader-to-slim-down/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/christie-tells-national-guard-leader-to-slim-down/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 23, 2015, 12:53:05 AM
I've probably not been clear that I think Governor Christie looks pretty good standing in the back of the clown college this cycle...

Quote
Christie tells National Guard leader to slim down
Associated Press  Published September 22, 2015


(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./876/493/christiegeneral2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Sept. 28, 2014: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, left, and New Jersey Adjutant General Brig. Gen. Michael Cunniff, right, review troops during the New Jersey National Guard's annual Military Review in Sea Girt, N.J. (AP)



TRENTON, N.J. –  Gov. Chris Christie wants the leader of New Jersey's National Guard to shape up.

The governor has given Air Force Brig. Gen. Michael Cunniff 90 days to slim down and meet his obligations.

The action comes after Christie's staff told The Washington Post that the governor was unaware the general had been reprimanded by the Pentagon about his weight and for repeatedly dodging physical-fitness tests.

The newspaper obtained the records under the Freedom of Information Act.

Christie declined a request for an interview.

"The Governor has expressed directly to the General that his failure to meet that standard or to provide notification of his formal reprimand is both unacceptable and disappointing," Christie spokesman Kevin Roberts said in an emailed statement.

The governor has given Cunniff 90 days to slim down and "meet his obligations," Roberts wrote.

It was not clear how much weight the general must lose. Cunniff took a fitness test in November 2013, his first in more than three years. He flunked when his waist size was measured at 43.5 inches — 4.5 inches larger than what was allowed.

Cunniff declined an interview request. But the National Guard released a statement in which the general acknowledged he failed to meet the Air Force's fitness requirements in recent years.

"Many people struggle with weight control — I am not immune from this," the general said in the statement. "However, I do recognize that military members and leaders, like myself, are held to a higher standard. I take this matter seriously and am taking the necessary steps to remedy this issue," the general said.

Christie, who once called himself "the healthiest fat guy you've ever seen," secretly underwent weight-loss surgery in 2013. A band was surgically placed around his stomach to restrict how much food he could eat.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/christie-tells-national-guard-leader-to-slim-down/ (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/22/christie-tells-national-guard-leader-to-slim-down/)

He looks worse for the wear as his presidental bid fails to gain traction.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 23, 2015, 01:45:34 AM
Do you realize we haven't had a fat president in [rolls eyes up mentally counting] about 80 years?  (If you don't count Clinton having a bad month here and there, or Nixon's jowls.)

We had NOTHING BUT fat presidents from Grant to Hover (with the exception of Wilson - Coolidge is a matter of opinion, I think) for almost 70 years straight...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on September 23, 2015, 03:12:54 AM
Do you realize we haven't had a fat president in [rolls eyes up mentally counting] about 80 years?  (If you don't count Clinton having a bad month here and there, or Nixon's jowls.)

We had NOTHING BUT fat presidents from Grant to Hover (with the exception of Wilson - Coolidge is a matter of opinion, I think) for almost 70 years straight...
I know that Former President Woodrow Wilson has the most degrees of any president in the history of our country.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 23, 2015, 03:19:48 AM
Yes, and worked to establish the League of Nations, but a racist and not exactly a friend of freedom of speech and the constitution.  Interesting, complex, man...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2015, 04:35:42 AM
I'm not going to rush in to praise President Wilson, but I'm going to remind our casual readers that Buncle is the first to say that you can't judge people from a century ago by today's standards.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 23, 2015, 04:37:59 AM
Absolutely. 

I'm still going to come down pretty hard on him for the jailing political dissenters, though.  Being right about the League of Nations does a lot to make up for it...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2015, 04:43:27 AM
Sure, the Constitution is the president's oath, not the territory of the USA. AND, it doesn't change that fast.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 06:25:14 PM
Quote
Religious liberty: Ted Cruz’s conservative ‘rocket fuel’
Yahoo! Politics
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  September‎ ‎26‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/1Y0_MLagGQ37.Iufmx9hpQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/f0a81c13d49b22edf270d4a514828e29fc42fe14.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, speaks during the Values Voter Summit, held by the Family Research Council Action on Sept. 25 in Washington. (Jose Luis Magana/AP)



To watch Ted Cruz speak at a gathering of religious conservatives in Washington Friday was to more fully grasp why the Republican senator from Texas could win the Iowa caucus next year.

In two words: religious liberty. Cruz has only one rival in the Republican field — former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee — who raises the issue as aggressively. But between the two of them, Cruz has a reputation as a fighter, having tangled repeatedly with GOP leadership in Congress on a host of issues since he was elected in 2010. And the grassroots wants a brawler.

Iowa conservatives, who make up a large percentage of caucus-goers, care deeply about the escalating fight over how religious liberty will be defined in America. They were galvanized earlier this month by the jailing of Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis, who refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples and was held in contempt of court when she forbade other clerks to do so as well.

“It is rocket fuel,” said Bob Vander Plaats, a religious conservative leader from northwest Iowa, who was in D.C. for the annual Values Voter Summit. As Vander Plaats spoke with Yahoo News, Davis herself walked past down a hallway in the Omni Shoreham Hotel, surrounded by an entourage that included two people with small handheld video cameras. Davis, 50, was honored Friday night at the summit with a “Cost of Discipleship Award.”

The two-day Values Voter conference gathered together a number of ordinary Americans who have clashed with gay rights supporters.

Cruz, during a 15-minute speech Friday morning, whipped the audience into a state of nearly constant frenzy. He was most passionate, and the crowd was most exercised, when Cruz said in a thundering voice that he would stand against persecution of people of faith in the U.S.

“The third thing I intend to do on my first day in office is instruct the Department of Justice and the IRS and every other federal agency that the persecution of religious liberty ends today!” he shouted, gesturing vehemently with an index finger pointed down at the ground.

The crowd leapt to its feet and sustained its standing ovation for nearly half a minute. The admiration of the Values Voter attendees for Cruz was most clear in the results of the conference’s straw poll. Cruz won the contest with 35 percent. The closest Republican presidential candidates were retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, with 18 percent, and Huckabee, with 14 percent.

Cruz has sought to appeal to Christian conservatives from the beginning of his presidential campaign. He announced his candidacy at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va, one of the most prominent evangelical colleges in the nation.

The Values Voter Summit, organized by Tony Perkins’ Family Research Council, has been focused on religious freedom for a few years. But the issue has taken on more urgency for religious conservatives after the Supreme Court made gay marriage the law of the land this past summer.

Before the Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges, there was already a growing list of cases in which Christians had refused to take wedding photographs, bake wedding cakes, or otherwise participate in nuptials involving gay couples. But after Obergefell, county clerks have become the latest battleground, as those who disapprove of gay marriage have refused to issue wedding licenses.

Davis’ is just the most public case, and both Cruz and Huckabee traveled to Kentucky to rally a crowd in her support on the day she was let out of jail. Davis agreed not to prevent other clerks from issuing licenses upon her release.

Incidentally, the Davis case has ended up in exactly the same compromise as conservatives and liberals ended up in Utah, only by a far more contentious route. The legislature in Utah passed a bipartisan law that allows county clerks to opt out of issuing wedding licenses to gays, as long as someone else can be found to perform the duty.

Some conservatives have criticized Davis, saying she went beyond exercising her own rights of conscience when she sought to prevent other clerks from carrying out their lawfully prescribed duties. Many believe she has hurt the cause of religious liberty rather than helping it.

“There was no need for Ms. Davis — or Gov. Huckabee and Sen. Cruz — to elevate this issue into a national fight Christians are destined to lose and, in this case, ought to lose,” wrote Peter Wehner of the Ethics and Public Policy Institute.

One attendee at the Values Voter conference, Larry Smith, 77, of Newport Beach, Calif., indicated he did not agree with Davis’ attempt to restrain her fellow county clerks from issuing licenses. But he still supported her and viewed the episode as a positive development on the whole.

“She has at least helped us focus on the issue,” Smith said.

Cruz and others like Huckabee know that many evangelicals — whatever their doubts about the details of the Davis case or Davis herself (she has been married four times and divorced three) — view the matter much like Smith does.

These politicians see the Davis case as a way to go on the offense in the debate and, perhaps more importantly, as a way to rally religious conservatives to their presidential candidacies. And this requires that they interpret Davis’ case as the potential fate of every Christian who has moral objections to homosexuality and gay marriage.

“Six months, a year ago, if I had come and said that a Christian woman was going to be thrown in jail, locked up in jail, for living her faith, the media would have dismissed me as ludicrous. That’s where we are,” Cruz said.

Cruz’s adroitness in talking about the fight over religious freedom was in stark contrast to Donald [Sleezebag]’s cluelessness about the matter. During a rambling 20-minute address, [Sleezebag] uttered six words about religious freedom, in what amounted to more of a non sequitur than anything.

“You know, freedom of religion, so important. We just don’t see it. You know, you take a look at a thing like the Iran deal,” [Sleezebag] said, and then digressed into a criticism of the Iran deal, never explaining what the connection was between the two issue.

[Sleezebag] was also loudly booed by the audience when he called Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., “a clown” and criticized his past support for comprehensive immigration reform.

Kim Bengard, 56, of San Clemente, Calif., dismissed [Sleezebag] as a pretender among the Christian conservatives and said he displayed no understanding of the fight over religious freedom.

“[Sleezebag] doesn’t get it. He’s not one of us,” Bengard said. “There wasn’t an excitement. I think the audience was more gracious than he was.”

[Sleezebag] received only 5 percent in the straw poll voting.

If [Sleezebag] loses steam — and while he still leads the field he has lost 6 points in the last week — no one is positioned to benefit more from a loss of support for [Sleezebag] more than Cruz is. Instead of criticizing [Sleezebag], he has aligned himself with the businessman, inviting him to a rally at the Capitol earlier this month to protest President Obama’s nuclear deal with Iran.

Both [Sleezebag] and Cruz have taken on Washington and positioned themselves as outsiders. But on religious freedom, the issue that is increasingly important to conservatives, there is a clear contrast between Cruz, the son of an evangelical pastor, and [Sleezebag]. And it’s a mark of Cruz’s orthodoxy as a conservative versus [Sleezebag]’s celebrity-based candidacy.

Cruz “is probably the one most people trust to do what he says he would do,” Vander Plaats said.

Before Cruz addressed the Values Voter audience, he attended a press conference organized by the Liberty Institute, a legal group that has defended Christians involved in legal disputes. The group’s leader, Texas attorney Kelly Shackelford, praised Cruz for being involved in religious liberty cases long before his political career.

“Before Sen. Cruz was ever thinking bout running for office … he was one of the best appellate attorneys in the country, and he was donating his time — literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of time — for religious freedom cases,” Shackelford said, noting their work together on legal proceedings around the case of the Mojave Memorial Cross.

Cruz stood with Navy chaplain Wes Modder, who was recently cleared by Navy Personnel Command in a case where he was accused of misconduct for counseling Marines against premarital sex and homosexuality, and with Liz Loverde, a New Jersey college student who said in 2014 that her high school forbade her to create a Christian club.

“These are real people,” Cruz said at the press conference. He spoke of a recent gathering in Iowa that he attended where a crowd of 2,500 heard from nine other individuals in religious liberty disputes. Cruz said the evidence is clear that Christians are being told they cannot exercise their faith.

“For every sneering media reporter who claims there are no threats, look in the eyes of these heroes, one after another after another, who simply stood for their faith and lost their jobs and faced persecution and faced death threats,” Cruz said.

“These threats are real. They’re growing. And yet we will stand and fight to defend our liberty. And I’ll tell you, the worse it gets the more of an awakening you’ll see,” he said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/religious-liberty-ted-cruzs-conservative-rocket-129941620471.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/religious-liberty-ted-cruzs-conservative-rocket-129941620471.html)



And of course, the fundamental problem is that Cruz' religious liberty is inimical to anyone else's.  I'm gonna have to write up my Render Unto Caesar sermon one of these days.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 06:58:48 PM
Quote
Boehner unloads on the ‘false prophets’ in his party that have made his job a nightmare
Business Insider
By Maxwell Tani  1 hour ago


(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/D6tOzMfLX768EoCp6_XM2g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1/http://globalfinance.zenfs.com/en_us/Finance/US_AFTP_SILICONALLEY_H_LIVE/Boehner_unloads_on_the_false-bff3611328125e63f24afa73ff0c01ac)
House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio defends the work of the GOP during a brief news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, July 31, 2014  (J. Scott Applewhite/AP)



House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) did not attempt to disguise his displeasure with the hardliners in his own caucus that claimed credit for his stunning resignation.

"Face The Nation" host John Dickerson on Sunday asked Boehner about the conservative House coalition with which Boehner was constantly feuding, and whether they had unrealistic expectations.

"Absolutely they're unrealistic!" Boehner blurted. "But the Bible says beware of false prophets. And there are people out there spreading noise about how much can get done."

Boehner proceeded to list some of his accomplishments — including reducing the federal deficit and stopping major proposals to increase taxes. He noted that all were passed "over the last four and a half years with a Democrat president" — and that all were "voted against by my most conservative members because it wasn't good enough."

"Really? This is the part I really don't understand," he said.

One conservative member of Congress, in particular, came into Boehner's crosshairs Sunday — Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas).

When Dickerson asked whether Cruz was a one of the "false prophets" to whom Boehner had referred, the speaker smiled and referred to comments he made at a fundraiser in Colorado earlier this summer. There, he reportedly dismissed Cruz as a "jackass."

Cruz was one of the chief architects of the 2013 government shutdown over the Affordable Care Act, as he lobbied many conservative members of the House to oppose the legislation that funded the federal government. Boehner referred to this effort on Sunday, calling the attempt a "fool's errand." And he suggested those behind it knew they were leading a futile effort.

On Friday, Boehner announced his intention to resign from Congress at the end of October. Though he said he had been planning to step down for quite some time, many saw the timing as a bid to avert another government shutdown.

This time, House conservatives have revolted over funding for Planned Parenthood, which they seeking to defund over a series of undercover videos detailing the organization's involvement in abortion-related fetal tissue research.

Despite his criticism of members of his caucus, the speaker stopped short of labeling his caucus as dysfunctional.

"I wouldn't call it dysfunction," Boehner said. "Disagreement, yes."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boehner-unloads-false-prophets-party-160127128.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boehner-unloads-false-prophets-party-160127128.html)



Incidentally, if you want to count the pores on Boner's nose, click on the picture.  It's huge...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 07:27:28 PM
Quote
Clinton on email controversy: a 'drip, drip, drip' of revelations
Reuters
By John Whitesides  2 hours ago



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton said on Sunday the politically damaging "drip, drip, drip" of revelations about her use of a private email server is out of her control and she is unsure when the controversy might end.

Clinton, who has seen her lead shrivel in the race for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, said she has tried to be as open as possible and take responsibility for the email flap.

"It is like a drip, drip, drip. That's why I said there is only so much I can control," Clinton told NBC's "Meet the Press."

But asked if she could reassure nervous Democrats that no new email revelations would hit her campaign, she said: "I can't predict to you what the Republicans will come up with, what sort of charges and claims they might make."

Clinton compared criticism about her use of private email instead of a government account while she was secretary of state to the flood of controversies and Republican-led investigations that marked the presidency of her husband Bill Clinton in the 1990s.

"I have been involved from the receiving side in a lot of these accusations," Clinton said. "In fact as you might remember during the 90s there were a bunch of them. All of them turned out to be not true."

Clinton has apologized for the email set-up and said it was a mistake. She gave 55,000 pages of work-related emails to the State Department last year but eliminated about 30,000 emails she said were personal. On Sunday, she said she did not help her lawyers determine which ones to turn over.

"I did not want to be looking over their shoulder," she said, calling accusations she was trying to avoid transparency laws "ridiculous".

A new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll on Sunday found Clinton's lead over top rival Bernie Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont, has dwindled to 7 percentage points, 42 percent to 35 percent, amid the controversy.

Asked about the hit in polls, Clinton said "what I have tried to do in explaining this is provide more transparency and more information than anybody I'm aware of who has ever served in government."

The most recent revelation was a report on Friday about an email exchange with former CIA Director, retired Gen. David Petraeus, that she did not turn over, and which occurred before she said she had set up her personal account.

Clinton said the private server was already in her house because her husband had set it up after leaving office, and she just added her account to it.

"What we had available at the time was turned over," she said. "I wasn't that focused on my email server."

(Editing by Andrew Roche)
http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-email-controversy-drip-drip-drip-revelations-153829880.html (http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-email-controversy-drip-drip-drip-revelations-153829880.html)



I have to agree that it's a reaching, non-story of an attack on her...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 27, 2015, 09:58:13 PM
Quote
Clinton on email controversy: a 'drip, drip, drip' of revelations
Reuters
By John Whitesides  2 hours ago
Asked about the hit in polls, Clinton said "what I have tried to do in explaining this is provide more transparency and more information than anybody I'm aware of who has ever served in government."


I have to agree that it's a reaching, non-story of an attack on her...

...and she doesn't say this braggadociously.

She brought it on herself by dragging her feet, making excuses, nit-picking words, then eventually turning over everything, acting like a lawyer instead of a statesman.

I don't think there's anything criminal at the root of it, although there probably are some unflattering candid glimpses of the Real Hillary saying things like "my boss is a doody head" "Show me a Harvard grad and I'll show you an arrogant ignoramus" "Israel is a pain in my butt" "Why are democratic donors so clingy and stingy?" "if we could only get these indifferent democrats to turn out at the polls like Republicans...", etc.  and she doesn't want to shoot her candidacy in the foot with the truth.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 27, 2015, 10:02:14 PM
Oh Contraire Mon Frere!
Cruz talks about religious freedom when he means Christian supremacy.

If it were a Moslem county clerk denying marriage licenses to couples without beards and head scarves, we'd hear a different story from him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 10:04:52 PM
I thought that was what I said...

Quote
Clinton on email controversy: a 'drip, drip, drip' of revelations
Reuters
By John Whitesides  2 hours ago
Asked about the hit in polls, Clinton said "what I have tried to do in explaining this is provide more transparency and more information than anybody I'm aware of who has ever served in government."


I have to agree that it's a reaching, non-story of an attack on her...

...and she doesn't say this braggadociously.

She brought it on herself by dragging her feet, making excuses, nit-picking words, then eventually turning over everything, acting like a lawyer instead of a statesman.

I don't think there's anything criminal at the root of it, although there probably are some unflattering candid glimpses of the Real Hillary saying things like "my boss is a doody head" "Show me a Harvard grad and I'll show you an arrogant ignoramus" "Israel is a pain in my butt" "Why are democratic donors so clingy and stingy?" "if we could only get these indifferent democrats to turn out at the polls like Republicans...", etc.  and she doesn't want to shoot her candidacy in the foot with the truth.
Has anything good she said ever gotten out?   I don't even get the meat of this latest manufactured scandal.

-You KNOW I'm not a fan - I just hold the professional Clinton-haters in even more contempt than the Clintons...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 27, 2015, 10:06:43 PM
Quote
Cruz talks about religious freedom when he means Christian supremacy.

Whats your point? This is a Christian country and it was founded as such.
No you cant have "religious freedom" in this country. Its just a euphemism
for destroying Christianity.

Quote
If it were a Moslem county clerk denying marriage licenses to couples without beards and head scarves, we'd hear a different story from him.
No muslims just set up child sex grooming gangs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 27, 2015, 10:26:46 PM
Quote
Cruz talks about religious freedom when he means Christian supremacy.

Whats your point? This is a Christian country and it was founded as such.
No you cant have "religious freedom" in this country. Its just a euphemism
for destroying Christianity.

Quote
If it were a Moslem county clerk denying marriage licenses to couples without beards and head scarves, we'd hear a different story from him.
No muslims just set up child sex grooming gangs.

Christians are free to get married. I know, I did it.
Except for what happens in a church, Christians shouldn't be free to decide who can and can't get married.

Denying a marriage license on the grounds of one's personal belief,  preventing others from doing so, and asserting a "right " to do so  isn't exercising freedom of conscience, it's establishing religious authority in the government in defiance of The Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court of the United States, and they have the final interpretation according to the Constitution itself.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 27, 2015, 11:15:28 PM
You cant be a Christian and support gay "marriage." She merely did whats expected of a Christian.
Theres a reason they aren't supposed to tolerated. You get the society that we have now.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 11:19:20 PM
Siiigh.  von, please don't let this turn into another problem area.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 27, 2015, 11:24:57 PM
Its not my fault if you don't want to hear what the Bible says on the subject.
Take it up with the father if you don't like it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 11:31:00 PM
No, I'm taking it up with YOU, because God doesn't come into my forum and say something hateful every time he says anything political.  I don't think you even show very good understanding of the Bible.

I said please, and I hope I won't have to ask you to tone it down a third time...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 27, 2015, 11:33:59 PM
Quote
I don't think you even show very good understanding of the Bible.
Better than you apparently. The Bible is pretty clear on it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on September 27, 2015, 11:38:03 PM
No you cant have "religious freedom" in this country.

"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society."

Really glad you don't have any power in the real world.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 27, 2015, 11:40:32 PM
Quote
I don't think you even show very good understanding of the Bible.
Better than you apparently. The Bible is pretty clear on it.
...

I opened that door, so I guess you get a pass on that one, but you're not helping yourself.  -I do wish I could see any sign that you care what a bad position you put me in when you do this, though.

Note that I'm not arguing the issue - I'm not interested in arguing about it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 28, 2015, 12:14:55 AM
Quote
Has anything good she said ever gotten out?   I don't even get the meat of this latest manufactured scandal.

-You KNOW I'm not a fan - I just hold the professional Clinton-haters in even more contempt than the Clintons...

The issue is if anyone else had handled classified data this way they'd already be in jail.
Even her own part doesn't want her in office. She has way to many enemies.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 28, 2015, 12:24:17 AM
I absolutely disagree with nothing whatsoever in that second sentence in any way at all.  That's my primary objection to her.

The first - you may well be right, for all I know - but the professional Clinton haters have practically signed the made-up scandal, and I'd almost go out and waste my vote on the nasty piece of work she is, just to spite them.  She's scum, for sure, in my book, but they're worse.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 28, 2015, 12:32:48 AM
From what I have heard of the handling of classified data she should already be in jail.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 28, 2015, 12:36:56 AM
If she has any fans here they've never spoken up, you know.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2015, 03:49:09 AM
It’s make or break time for Jeb Bush  from The Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/its-make-or-break-time-for-jeb-bush/2015/09/27/73d5f6fa-63c0-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/its-make-or-break-time-for-jeb-bush/2015/09/27/73d5f6fa-63c0-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html)

"Jeb Bush is entering a critical phase of his Republican presidential campaign, with top donors warning that the former Florida governor needs to demonstrate growth in the polls over the next month or face serious defections among supporters.

The warnings, expressed by numerous senior GOP fund­raisers in recent days, come as Bush and an allied super PAC are in the early stages of an aggressive television ad campaign they say will help erase doubts about his viability.

But Bush continues to battle against a steady decline in the polls, sinking to fifth place at just 7 percent in a national NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Sunday and similarly languishing in the early-voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire."


The Walker people are breaking toward Rubio. Bush is struggling to get his message out, because people think they already know him. Likewise, in an anti-establishment year, he's The Republican establishment candidate. His campaign has planned for the long run, but with threatened defections, he may not be able to play the long game. They are making an all-out fundraising effort.

The thing is, every time Jeb makes some statement on the stump that has to be clarified by his campaign, it cements the impression that he's another "W".

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 28, 2015, 07:54:31 PM
If she has any fans here they've never spoken up, you know.

While I won't go so far as to say 'fan'.  Indifferent either way is more like it.  I don't believe she's any dirtier than any of the others and can see myself get behind a 'better the evil you know than the one you don't' type support. 

Largely because I haven't forgotten the year of unemployment that followed the last government shutdown, nor the idiots and party that brought that about and are threatening to again, even if I would be more insulated from such actions this time. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 28, 2015, 07:59:24 PM
...I agree that she'd probably be better at handling that than the President is...

WHY don't they LEARN that they get a bloody nose every single time?  It's a pure loser of a stunt.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 29, 2015, 02:14:03 AM
I could do a better job than Obama.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 29, 2015, 07:54:47 PM
Love to know how any of you would manage to do much of anything with the present congress policy of block everything, hold up everything, do nothing. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2015, 08:01:12 PM
I'm probably being politically naïve, but make speeches calling them what they are, raise heck, fight - they're the ones who declared war.  He's an appeaser, a let's-make-a-deal guy -for all of their fantasies otherwise- which would probably work real well with an opposition more interested in governing than winning.  -But that's not what he got, and he was looking like a very slow learner six years ago.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 29, 2015, 08:33:40 PM
 
I'm probably being politically naïve

I'm sure we ALL are guilty of that.  I KNOW I am. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2015, 08:48:22 PM
There's no doubt whatsoever that Bakrama is better informed than I am on the factors going into his decisions and tactics/strategy.  Some of my frustration with him is that his mellow Hawaiian attitude is not what the current climate needs -appeasement in the face of fanaticism running even FURTHER out of control- and that he had enormous potential as the most inspirational President since Kennedy -and don't get me started on Kennedy, but he was good with the speeches and inspiration- but instead, he's trying to be Eisenhower.

We needed Eisenhower when we got him, same as with Ford, I think; they were boring stay-at-home presidents when that was probably indeputably for the best at the time.  We needed a fighter after the excess of the Cheney Bund, and he ain't it.  -This is also why my head wants to explode when the right talks -exclusively- about their imaginary Obama, instead of the collaborator they actually have on hand and won't let collaborate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 29, 2015, 09:14:57 PM
I disagree to a point.  I don't think the attitude became a problem till the second term when the congress shifted to the idiots attempting to blockade everything.  In fact, I'll say it was likely an asset during the first term with a majority house in his favor. 

Personally, I especially appreciated his attempt to clean up govt procurement.  Ultimately it has practically no teeth with all the loopholes, but SOMETHING needed to be done and he at least tried.  Yet, this is not one of the things people talk about for whatever reason, but I get to see it more personally than most. 

hEt has similar feelings on the health care, I believe.  Might not be "right" but at least it was trying to do something that was NEEDED. 

(both first term, coincidentally) 

There could be plenty to say about the recession lack thereof bailouts, etc but people come down on whichever side they want when the truth is probably somewhere in the middle on that too. 

Basically, i don't think he's anywhere near as bad as people make him out to be, and certainly nowhere near as bad as the talking radio heads would have us believe. 

 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: t_ras on September 29, 2015, 09:22:47 PM
Just stepped in to remind every one that sharing ideas is better than shouting them.
Please be polite and patient with each other and refrain from expressing racist or other discriminating messages.
Remeber you all post here because you care and want to make things better.
Thank you all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 29, 2015, 09:28:27 PM
Thanks, t - he's someone to appeal to about me if you can't raise sisko; he's also good at talking me down calmly.



Uno, that's pretty much my position on Obamacare (it's 4,000 kinds of wrong in execution and I hated it when it was Hilarycare, too, and the right-wing think-tank that came up with it, but) I do discern the admirable intention, and appreciate that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 29, 2015, 09:34:56 PM
I'm probably being politically naïve

I'm sure we ALL are guilty of that.  I KNOW I am.

Yes, one way or another. Me, too.
********************
Legislating is a messy business.  Obama did fight one fall.

One year, Harry Reid wouldn't even let a budget come to a vote in the senate. That allows a lot of posturing and speechifying without anybody actually doing anything  for  which they can be held accountable. Even then a bill can be amended to death, until it's hard to tell what it stands for.

 To me passing a budget is the primary job. Voting for or against a declaration of war or a treaty is about the only thing that should take precedence.


If I were president I would try to do build consensus for the basics, and keep the government operating. Surely adequate inspectors for the VA hospitals isn't controversial.  I know that even that would be difficult with the Republicans eager to shut the government down, and Democrats blocking everything from coming to a vote.

Which is why we see fringe candidates doing so well this year compared to professional politicians who are considered part of the problem.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 29, 2015, 10:22:19 PM
For the record, I don't think Bush was as bad as HE is made out to be, either.  He had a similar blockade everything do nothing congress. 

I get tired of the "blame the president" from either side when they aren't even half the problem in most cases.  Why the president always becomes the fall guy is beyond me a bit, and I think the continued demonizing of WHOEVER the president is by radical media personalities is not good for anyone. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on September 29, 2015, 10:42:02 PM
Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0
The Government Can. I've wanted to post this for awhile.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on September 30, 2015, 03:29:11 AM
Its not my fault if you don't want to hear what the Bible says on the subject.

Actually, the Bible doesn't really say much about gay marriage per se.  It says that male homosexuality is sinful, and therefore gay marriage is recognizing sin...but that gets into the question of how secular American law should interact with God's law...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 03:30:48 AM
Quote
Scientists: Earth Endangered by New Strain of Fact-Resistant Humans
The New Yorker
By Andy Borowitz


(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Borowitz-Earth-Endangered-by-Fact-Resistant-Humans-690.jpg)
Credit PHOTOGRAPH BY NASA EO/REX/FEATURES VIA AP



MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – Scientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/scientists-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans)


Factual correction; like pneumonia being misnamed because it's the same old monia that been around as long as lungs have, this is not a new strain at all - which is rather embarrassing to still have here in the future.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 01, 2015, 12:21:21 PM
Quote
Actually, the Bible doesn't really say much about gay marriage per se.  It says that male homosexuality is sinful, and therefore gay marriage is recognizing sin...but that gets into the question of how secular American law should interact with God's law...
Quote
Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
The Bible is pretty clear on it. Sorry felt I had to respond.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 01, 2015, 02:29:11 PM
The Bible is pretty clear on it. Sorry felt I had to respond.
I won't sully the thread by getting deeply into it here.  If you want a bible topic, I'm game. 

Fact is, those can be interpretted otherwise.  In fact, there is no evidence whether it was considered a moral sin or an unclean act (and there is a BIG difference) akin to eating pig, breeding a mule, or planting more than one kind of seed in your field.  The laws surrounding the verses are all unclean act talk, which would suggest the latter, but the individual verses are unclear in the Hebrew bible and literally need to be altered in any translation as there simply is no translation for the actual Hebrew, so you get people injecting personal feelings on the matter.  The ones you quote can be read as homosexuality is forbidden, prostitution is forbidden, or as group sex is forbidden, depending on who is translating and the message they want to put forward.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 01, 2015, 03:14:11 PM
Quote
Actually, the Bible doesn't really say much about gay marriage per se.  It says that male homosexuality is sinful, and therefore gay marriage is recognizing sin...but that gets into the question of how secular American law should interact with God's law...
Quote
Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
The Bible is pretty clear on it. Sorry felt I had to respond.

No need to apologize.  However:

As I said, it says that male homosexuality is sinful.  On that, it's absolutely clear.  How that impacts on the question of gay marriage being recognized by a secular government is where things get very tricky.

The Bible is pretty clear on it. Sorry felt I had to respond.
I won't sully the thread by getting deeply into it here.  If you want a bible topic, I'm game. 

Maybe BUncle can just split off these discussions...

Quote
Fact is, those can be interpretted otherwise.  In fact, there is no evidence whether it was considered a moral sin or an unclean act (and there is a BIG difference)

No, there really isn't, in the Bible.  What you characterize as "unclean acts" are also sins.  The idea of "moral sin" external to "God said don't do it" is alien to the Bible.

Quote
The ones you quote can be read as homosexuality is forbidden, prostitution is forbidden, or as group sex is forbidden, depending on who is translating and the message they want to put forward.   

If they're translating straightforwardly, though, "male homosexuality is forbidden" is the most obvious meaning.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 03:36:28 PM
I'll go find the gay marriage thread from a few months ago.

I'm not sure that it's at all off-topic here, though; it's certainly an issue in play in this presidential cycle.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on October 01, 2015, 04:46:51 PM

Factual correction; like pneumonia being misnamed because it's the same old monia that been around as long as lungs have, this is not a new strain at all - which is rather embarrassing to still have here in the future.


It's increasing because in the past it tended to be fatal but advances in medicine and technology have pushed those natural limitations much further away.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 04:49:11 PM
Are you talking about pneumonia or willful ignorance? :)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on October 01, 2015, 04:51:33 PM
Are you talking about pneumonia or willful ignorance? :)

Ignorance, but I suppose it works for pneumonia too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 01, 2015, 05:00:49 PM
Quote
Fact is, those can be interpretted otherwise.  In fact, there is no evidence whether it was considered a moral sin or an unclean act (and there is a BIG difference)

No, there really isn't, in the Bible.  What you characterize as "unclean acts" are also sins.  The idea of "moral sin" external to "God said don't do it" is alien to the Bible.

Many theologians agree the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the hebrew bible, where the scriptures above come from) has two very distinct categories of sin evil.  Uncleanliness/Ritual sin and Moral Sin.  If you want me to start listing theologians, I will.

Uncleanliness falls into the category of eating unclean animals, inappropriate clothing, planting crops incorrectly, etc.  It is things the world does, but the Jews are forbidden to set themselves apart as God's people.  Contact with these things can be intentional or unintentional.  Contact makes the body an unclean vessel unsuited to that which is Holy.  This is not to claim they are neccessarily minor sins.  Some call for banishment or execution, others just a ritual cleansing. 

Moral sin, however, is willful rebellion against god.  Murder falls here. 

It is unclear which category homosexuality falls under, but is discussed alongside other unclean acts.  My point is, if we're going to use the Pentateuch as our guide on homosexuality, why then are we not advocating for the full measure of it to be enforced as well? 

Quote
Quote
The ones you quote can be read as homosexuality is forbidden, prostitution is forbidden, or as group sex is forbidden, depending on who is translating and the message they want to put forward.   

If they're translating straightforwardly, though, "male homosexuality is forbidden" is the most obvious meaning.

Ok, let's test that:

"V'et zachar lo tishkav mishk'vey eeshah"

"And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman"

So, make sense of lay lyings.  That is what translation boils down to.  Yes, most have gone with homosexuality traditionally, to claim that is the most correct or straight forward is to ignore other possible meanings.  It could just as easily read no threesomes. 

Then the second part is determining what it is considered:

toeyvah hee

We see above "Abomination" as the translation of Toeyvah.

Yet, elsewhere in the Pentateuch it is used to connote societally unacceptable behavior/a social taboo, and often translated as "offensive".  Why the inconsistent translation? 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 05:21:05 PM
This ought to be an interesting exchange to follow...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 01, 2015, 06:29:15 PM
I know people that literally have gone back and translated the Bible word for word in the original languages. Heh.
Earning himself the equivalent in two phd s in the process. The Bible is pretty clear on the law and I have a compiled
handbook on it on pdf. 
Quote
http://www.giveshare.org/BibleLaw/lawhandbook/index.html
Certain things aren't supposed to be tolerated and homosexuality is among those things.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society" Aristotle
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 01, 2015, 07:13:53 PM
I know people that literally have gone back and translated the Bible word for word in the original languages. Heh.
Earning himself the equivalent in two phd s in the process. The Bible is pretty clear on the law and I have a compiled
handbook on it on pdf. 
Quote
http://www.giveshare.org/BibleLaw/lawhandbook/index.html
Certain things aren't supposed to be tolerated and homosexuality is among those things.


As is judging others. 

I don't have to tolerate acts I find religiously offensive in my house or my church.  However, I also cannot condemn those that believe differently and act on their beliefs on their own terms.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 01, 2015, 07:25:12 PM
Quote
As is judging others. 

I don't have to tolerate acts I find religiously offensive in my house or my church.  However, I also cannot condemn those that believe differently and act on their beliefs on their own terms.
Theres a difference between judging and discerning. We are required to discern and carry out the the law.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
The $64 question is what a Christian -anyone of any faith- is supposed to do in Caesar's 'democracy' that has in its basic rules that we don't legislate according to religious beliefs.  -Never forget that it'd been tried in Europe extensively and for a long time, and had many unfortunate shortcomings.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 01, 2015, 07:46:18 PM
Quote
As is judging others. 

I don't have to tolerate acts I find religiously offensive in my house or my church.  However, I also cannot condemn those that believe differently and act on their beliefs on their own terms.
Theres a difference between judging and discerning.

Indeed.  Discerning is determining your course.  Judging is dictating another's. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 01, 2015, 08:02:04 PM
Heh funny no. Laws exist for a reason. And I'm not talking man's law.
This ties into anti-nomianism, the idea that they law is somehow done away with.
It is not.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 01, 2015, 08:27:02 PM
Romans 12:2
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 01, 2015, 09:28:23 PM
Quote
Fact is, those can be interpretted otherwise.  In fact, there is no evidence whether it was considered a moral sin or an unclean act (and there is a BIG difference)

No, there really isn't, in the Bible.  What you characterize as "unclean acts" are also sins.  The idea of "moral sin" external to "God said don't do it" is alien to the Bible.

Many theologians agree the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the hebrew bible, where the scriptures above come from) has two very distinct categories of sin evil.  Uncleanliness/Ritual sin and Moral Sin.  If you want me to start listing theologians, I will.

Rather than theologians, can you quote sources in the Bible?  After all, neither I nor (I presume) vonbach cares what theologians think, but rather what the Bible itself says.

Quote
It is unclear which category homosexuality falls under, but is discussed alongside other unclean acts.  My point is, if we're going to use the Pentateuch as our guide on homosexuality, why then are we not advocating for the full measure of it to be enforced as well? 

Good question.

Quote
If they're translating straightforwardly, though, "male homosexuality is forbidden" is the most obvious meaning.

Ok, let's test that:

"V'et zachar lo tishkav mishk'vey eeshah"

"And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman"

So, make sense of lay lyings.  That is what translation boils down to.  Yes, most have gone with homosexuality traditionally, to claim that is the most correct or straight forward is to ignore other possible meanings.  It could just as easily read no threesomes.[/quote]

How so?  (Note that there are other cases where the Hebrew for an abstract concept takes the same form as a plural noun.) 

Quote
toeyvah hee

We see above "Abomination" as the translation of Toeyvah.

Yet, elsewhere in the Pentateuch it is used to connote societally unacceptable behavior/a social taboo, and often translated as "offensive".  Why the inconsistent translation?

It's a good question why there's an inconsistent translation, but the difference does date back to the classical aramaic Targum (which translates many occurrences of תועבה as מרחקה, "repulsive", but the ones in Leviticus as תועבתא, basically just transliterating the word), so it does have basis.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 02, 2015, 01:11:07 AM
Oh just FYI block hebrew wasn't invented until something like 600 A.D.
Real Hebrew is a very ancient language.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 02, 2015, 03:10:27 AM
Oh just FYI block hebrew wasn't invented until something like 600 A.D.
Real Hebrew is a very ancient language.

The block version is a simplification of a much older script, but yes, it itself is fairly recent.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2015, 04:53:26 PM
Quote
So, what does Silicon Valley think about Carly Fiorina?
Yahoo! Politics
Alyssa Bereznak  ‎October‎ ‎01‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3BVsVlt9d3h58tdO6OzeEQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/c1fb2b4aa43780f1e67d2d3d96cc4846/tumblr_inline_nvjtj87MKg1qchxpg_1280.jpg)
Republican presidential hopeful Carly Fiorina at TechCrunch’s Disrupt conference in May. (Photo: Andrew Burton/Getty Images).



The San Francisco Bay Area has long been home to legends of failure and redemption, a place where business leaders are often encouraged to flounder before they can truly lead a company to IPO Valhalla. No surprise, then, that former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina has taken to comparing herself to greats like Mike Bloomberg and Steve Jobs, both of whom stumbled in their fields before coming back as business-world icons.

Now Fiorina is attempting a similar turnaround in her campaign for the GOP presidential nomination, surging in national polls from the back of the pack to third place — right behind Ben Carson and Donald [Sleezebag] — on the heels of her winning performance in Simi Valley’s GOP primary debate. But scrutiny of her tenure at Hewlett-Packard has soared along with support for her, and critics have come out of the woodwork to ding her Bush-era performance as a Silicon Valley executive and paint her as out of touch.

The Washington Post reminded us that her HP contract included a clause agreeing to ship her 52-foot yacht from the East Coast to San Francisco. Writing in the New York Times, Wall Street executive Steven Rattner asserted that her “lack of public service or sustained business success makes Mrs. Fiorina unqualified for the nation’s highest office.” In Politico, Yale management professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld described her as “one of the worst technology CEOs in history.”

The Valley is also raising questions about the relevance of her résumé in today’s startup-centric technology world, even as it’s become clear that she has a unique opportunity to become its biggest advocate in the campaign.

According to Julie Samuels, executive director of the San Francisco-based policy and tech group Engine, local technologists are hungry for a politician who understands the inner workings of the tech industry and can offer smart solutions to net neutrality, patent reform, immigration for skilled workers and business regulation.

But Fiorina — along with the rest of the GOP field — so far has disappointed startup owners by failing to vigorously address these topics.

“We haven’t seen a candidate from either party really resonate yet with the startup community,” Samuels told Yahoo News. “No one has really come in with big ideas to fix these big problems.”

In what little Fiorina has said about these issues, her opinions have not always been celebrated in the Valley. In May, during an interview at TechCrunch Disrupt, she vowed that as president she would “roll back” the new rules on net neutrality, despite the fact that FCC chairman Tom Wheeler’s decision to block an Internet fast lane was widely popular within the tech community. In a 2014 piece in Forbes, she came out against patent reform, another issue for which many people in Silicon Valley are fighting. Fiorina has also taken a hardline stance on illegal immigration — without explaining how she would fix the complex visa application system that has kept tech companies from hiring much-needed high-skilled workers in the past.

Nor has she detailed plans on how to help a sector that entrepreneurs often complain is hindered by bureaucratic paperwork and unnecessary labor regulations.

As a result, many startup workers — who, according to Samuels, tend to have a libertarian mindset — have felt overlooked during the primary contest thus far. Garrett Johnson, a co-founder of the Republican policy and tech group Lincoln Labs, has hosted candidates like Fiorina, Rand Paul and Jeb Bush at events in the past, but says he still hasn’t heard many candidates speak directly to the problems affecting him and his fellow entrepreneurs.

“The last debate could’ve happened in the 1990s and no one would’ve known the difference,” Johnson told Yahoo News. “There was very little mention, if any, of the 21st century Internet economy.”

Without a comprehensive pitch for how to improve Silicon Valley, Fiorina’s tech experience has little relevance to workers who see her old firm as a relic of the past and revere the founders of today’s disruptive breakout companies, such as Evan Spiegel of Snapchat and Travis Kalanick of Uber.

“HP is an old, stale company,” Johnson said. “Silicon Valley is really focused on what’s hot and what’s next. I don’t think that she’s going to have a lot of street cred today because she was the CEO of HP in the late ’90s, early 2000s.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6HwGDI2ClFu3eZkLpGK7Kg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/ec0bf0134661085a75aee534de0ae1b8/tumblr_inline_nvjtisSVFh1qchxpg_1280.jpg)
Fiorina rang a bell to virtually open the New York Stock Exchange from HP’s headquarters in 2002. (Photo: Chris Preovolos/AP Photo).


Fiorina’s experience as a technology-world leader may be a distant memory for many of the Bay Area’s best and brightest, but advocacy groups nonetheless hold out hope that she’ll recognize that speaking about issues affecting the tech community could earn her a long-term advantage over her competitors.

“A politician would be very smart on the Republican side to talk about what they could do for startups and entrepreneurs,” said Rich Tafel, the founder of the public policy training group The Public Squared and the gay conservative group Log Cabin Republicans. “They’re sort of struck by her silence on it.”

Reached for comment, Fiorina’s deputy campaign manager Sarah Isgur Flores defended her candidate’s dedication to small businesses.


“Carly has a track record of challenging the status quo and will continue to be a vocal opponent of crony capitalism that crushes the entrepreneurs and small and community businesses that create two-thirds of the new jobs in this country,” she said.

Though Fiorina’s performances in the last two debates have showcased her skill at telling her story, making a case and selling it, her time at HP has left her with an unfavorable reputation in the Valley that she’ll need to overcome if she wants to become its standard-bearer, according to Vivek Wadhwa, co-author of the book “Innovating Women,” a collection of essays on women’s rising role in the tech industry.

“When I was interviewing women and researching who to feature in my book, I was surprised at the negativity that everyone expressed about her,” Wadhwa told Yahoo News.

Tafel credits that feedback to irritation that Fiorina has made herself out to be a business-world leader. Despite her comparisons, her professional path hasn’t been like that of local legend Jobs, as she was never asked to return to the helm of a company and hasn’t held a major role in the tech industry since 2005.

“She wasn’t a great business leader, and the fact that she’s running on that bothers them,” Tafel said. “It’s one thing to not do great in a tech company; it’s another thing to say that’s your bragging point.”

Thus far, Fiorina’s strategy for the primary race has been to appeal to a deeply conservative base, especially social conservatives, while emphasizing her list of accomplishments as a business leader.

But Silicon Valley’s tech employees remain hopeful that when the time comes for her to differentiate herself from the pack, she’ll apply her knowledge as a tech CEO to address real problems plaguing their community.

“If she fails to make that connection and tell that story, it’s a disservice to her campaign,” Johnson said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-what-does-silicon-valley-think-about-carly-164258538.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-what-does-silicon-valley-think-about-carly-164258538.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2015, 10:14:33 PM
Quote
HP Employees Won’t Give Carly Fiorina a Dime
The Daily Beast
Patricia Murphy09.30.158:55 PM ET


(http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2015/09/30/hp-employees-won-t-give-carly-fiorina-a-dime/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/48123303.cached.jpg)
John G. Mabanglo/AFP/Getty



Out of the thousands of people she worked with, why are only two giving Fiorina a reportable amount of cash?

The employees at Hewlett-Packard, where Carly Fiorina was CEO for six years, don’t seem interested in seeing their old boss become commander-in-chief.

Of the 302,000 employees at the company, not one has given a reportable amount to help Fiorina fund her 2016 presidential campaign, according to the campaign’s most recent FEC filings, which lists all donations over $200. HP’s corporate leadership also doesn’t seem keen on the idea of Fiorina in the White House. Among the 12-member board of directors, just one, Ann Livermore, has given a donation above that threshold.

Also missing from the donor list are current CEO (and former GOP gubernatorial candidate) Meg Whitman, any members of the senior leadership team, and all but one member of the HP Board during Fiorina’s tenure there from 1999 to 2005. Tom Perkins, a venture capitalist and former board member who voted to fire Fiorina in 2005, has since had a change of heart and donated $25,000 to CARLY for America, the super PAC supporting her.

The lack of early financial support from almost anyone associated with Hewlett-Packard is hard to square with Fiorina’s own description of her achievements there. While she acknowledges the “tough choices” she had to make as CEO, Fiorina aggressively defends her six-year run as a time when she transformed the company from an aging dinosaur into a market leader.

“We doubled the size of the company,” she told the audience at the recent CNN debate. “We quadrupled its topline growth rate. We quadrupled its cash flow. We tripled its rate of innovation.”

But Fiorina failed to explain during the debate that the company doubled in size because she pushed HP to merge with Compaq in 2001. That merger led to a company with two times the revenue, but only half of the value.

Fiorina also laid off 30,000 HP employees, moved thousands of jobs to China and India, and was fired by the board after a period so tumultuous that some disgruntled employees continue to refer to her as “Chainsaw Carly” or “Carly Failorina.” Her severance package was worth an estimated $42 million.

Interviews with HP employees during and after Fiorina’s leadership reveal a deep and simmering well of discontent 10 years after she left the company.

Dean Soderstrom, a sales operations manager at HP from 1999 until his retirement in 2015, said he saw feelings for Fiorina among rank-and-file employees sour quickly after she took over.

“Right from the get-go with Carly, it seemed like it was a two-class company. It was her and the rest of us,” Soderstrom said. “Many of her employees were very disenchanted by her. When she was let go, I think for the right reasons, there was a lot of singing ‘Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead.’”

To Soderstrom’s point, Fiorina’s first year at HP not only included an immediate overhaul of the company’s famous corporate culture, widely known in Silicon Valley as “the HP Way,” but also instant celebrity status for Fiorina, who was the first woman to lead a Fortune 20 company. She appeared on the cover of more than 40 magazine covers in her first year, had her portrait hung in the company’s Palo Alto lobby next to the founders, and bought a Gulfstream IV for her travels. The previous CEO, Lewis Platt, famously flew coach.

“I don’t care if she’s a Democrat, Republican, or Independent. I would not support her for president,” Soderstrom said. “I would not give her two cents.”

Another former employee, who is now a CEO in Silicon Valley, and did not want his name used, said he would never consider supporting Fiorina for president and knows of none of his former co-workers who would. “My thoughts are no employee would donate to her campaign, ever,” he said. “She is a terrible leader, really, really bad. As bad as they come.”

A current employee, who also asked that his name not be used, said he felt HP never recovered from the changes Fiorina made. “HP is still not a happy place to work. It’s pretty much been a disaster for years, but I think Carly set the tone.” The company recently announced another round of 30,000 layoffs and a restructuring that will split the massive company into two smaller units.

Peter Burrows, the author of Backfire: Carly Fiorina’s Battle for the Soul of Hewlett-Packard, who covered Fiorina’s tenure at HP and remains in touch with current employees, said Fiorina started at HP with high hopes among staff that she would change the company, making it more relevant and nimble. Instead, she became the symbol of its demise.

“Everybody at HP knew the company needed to change and she sounded like she had the answers,” Burrows said. “That faded pretty quickly because it became clear that it was not translating into action and it began to seem empty.”

As her time at the company went on, the company’s performance sank, and layoffs were implemented, Burrows said people inside HP and throughout Silicon Valley began to put the blame for the company’s failures on the once high-flying Fiorina, an opinion that persists to this day.

“Most people think that she did not improve the company, that she made the company  the company weaker, that she tore away some of its strengths,” Burrows said. “She had a small but incredibly loyal core group around her, but she lost the vast majority of employees.”

The Fiorina campaign did not respond to several requests for comment on this article.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/hp-employees-won-t-give-carly-fiorina-a-dime.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/hp-employees-won-t-give-carly-fiorina-a-dime.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2015, 04:00:12 AM
I just finally got around to watching Boner's resignation - I may have underestimated the man all this time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 03, 2015, 05:12:59 PM
Yeah, I know. Carly ran for senate in CA and couldn't get elected. A lot of residual ill will.

But of the three Republican outsider frontrunners, I think she'd make the best president. She has a chairman of the board style. Of the others, one is too kindly and Christian, the other is too dictatorial.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2015, 05:18:57 PM
Is the Pig's business even publically traded?  No experience with even board/stockholder politics, if not, which I think is the case.

-No particular agenda in posting those particular articles about that particular candidate - they just seemed the most interesting of what I saw when I went looking for campaign articles...  I like what she's doing with her hair better these days - but Rubio is still the prettiest candidate on either side...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 03, 2015, 09:59:29 PM
I don't think the Real Estate Mogul's business is publicly traded. Checking just now, I can't find any reference to it.

On a more interesting note-
-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag]-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag)

.

Donald [Sleezebag] Falls: Ben Carson Surges To Lead In Poll
177 Comments
BY JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: -trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm#ixzz3nXYDbSqO]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag]-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm#ixzz3nXYDbSqO (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag)

"Donald [Sleezebag] has boasted that he's "leading every poll and in most cases big." Not anymore. The latest IBD/TIPP Poll shows him in second place, seven points behind Ben Carson.

The nationwide survey found that 24% of Republicans back Carson, compared with 17% who say they support [Sleezebag].

Marco Rubio came in third with 11% and Carly Fiorina fourth at 9%. Jeb Bush, once considered a prohibitive favorite, ranked fifth with just 8% support, which was a point lower than those who say they are still undecided."

-------

Peak [Sleezebag]?

Other polls show [Sleezebag]'s support slipping in recent weeks. The Real Clear Politics average of six national polls shows him falling from 30.5% in mid-September to 23.3% by the end of the month. That average does not include the IBD/TIPP findings.

"Things appear to be catching up with [Sleezebag] on multiple fronts," said Raghavan Mayur, president of TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence, which conducts IBD's monthly poll. "In addition to facing increasing attacks from other candidates, [Sleezebag]'s boycott of Fox News may have set him back," Mayur said, noting that the poll was being conducted during [Sleezebag]'s self-imposed hiatus. "


Today is a day for Buncle to look wise, having predicted that antagonizing Fox would hurt him in the long run.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2015, 10:24:48 PM
I did recall, after posting that, seeing a story last year about him losing control of some or all of his prominent Atlantic City businesses and being mad his name was still on them while they were crumbling/miss-run/going under.  -So he's at least done some major ventures as partnerships or something.

For the rest - seemed obvious.  Fox does a lot of people's thinking for them.  He's not a real candidate.  I'd hate to back my assertion with my life -which is what it might come to if I'm wrong; the stakes are the highest possible- that too much power and money is against him even on 'his own side' for him to win --- but Oh. MY. GOD. I hope I'm right.

If he comes to an understanding with the Kochs and Murdock when all their preferences give up, we are all in (this-will-be-the-finger-on-The-Button-and-I've-read-The Dead Zone) trouble.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2015, 10:29:24 PM
...But again, I think people are stupid, but when it comes time to actually vote?  -I still don't think (enough) people are THAT stupid...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 04, 2015, 02:27:10 AM
I did recall, after posting that, seeing a story last year about him losing control of some or all of his prominent Atlantic City businesses and being mad his name was still on them while they were crumbling/miss-run/going under.  -So he's at least done some major ventures as partnerships or something.

For the rest - seemed obvious.  Fox does a lot of people's thinking for them.  He's not a real candidate.  I'd hate to back my assertion with my life -which is what it might come to if I'm wrong; the stakes are the highest possible- that too much power and money is against him even on 'his own side' for him to win --- but Oh. MY. GOD. I hope I'm right.

If he comes to an understanding with the Kochs and Murdock when all their preferences give up, we are all in (this-will-be-the-finger-on-The-Button-and-I've-read-The Dead Zone) trouble.

We're not in trouble unless he wins the general election...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2015, 02:37:35 AM
That I lost a lot of fake forum money to Uno after the first debate is just depressing, though.

Idiots.  We have idiots on our team.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 04, 2015, 03:13:56 PM
I will admit I am truly enjoying the [Sleezebag] steamroll. The more they attack the more they try to ignore him the
stronger he gets.  ;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2015, 03:19:16 PM
I may not comment according to my own rules...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 04, 2015, 03:29:01 PM
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
[Sleezebag] has discovered one thing all the other politicians have forgotten.
The common folk all the others ignore. And its probably going to see him
get to the white house.  :D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 04, 2015, 04:37:50 PM
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”
[Sleezebag] has discovered one thing all the other politicians have forgotten.
The common folk all the others ignore. And its probably going to see him
get to the white house.  :D

Not so clear...if Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, he can fight [Sleezebag] on the "common folk" ground...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 04, 2015, 09:42:15 PM
I will admit I am truly enjoying the [Sleezebag] steamroll. The more they attack the more they try to ignore him the
stronger he gets.  ;lol

You may well be right, but that remains to be seen. 
The last two polls have him getting stronger, then weaker. I suspect one of them is wrong.
The stronger poll of 32%-5.1% = 26.9% is slightly below his current 30 day average of 27.53%
The weaker poll of 17%+5.0% = 22%, well below.

Now it could be that the 17% result is so erroneous that it skews the 30 day average.

Or it could be that people are flipping from [Sleezebag] to Carson on the basis of Carson's remarks about Muslims being unqualified to be president.  If wild remarks can work for [Sleezebag], why not for Carson, too?

Me, I'd like to wait for another poll to confirm a trend one way or another.


Even so, becoming president is not exactly a national popularity contest. It's also a matter of fund-raising, strategic planning, and organizing. First you have to get the nomination, then you have to win the electoral college. If it were easy, everybody would do it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2015, 09:49:23 PM
Remember all the braying when the First Oil Crusade was wrapping up in a hurry and the real George Bush's approval ratings were through the roof?  A big (huge, obnoxious right-wing gloating) deal was made of it on the news at the time.

I said -I really did say this out loud and everything to actual people in the room who heard me- "Idiots.  A year-and-a-half is a long time."

(It seems even longer during a campaign.  They haven't even Deaned anyone yet.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 05, 2015, 12:53:01 AM
Quote
Not so clear...if Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, he can fight [Sleezebag] on the "common folk" ground...

Rofl. What would Bernie know about the common folk? Bernie is done. Theres a reason Biden is getting tapped.
Quote
The last two polls have him getting stronger, then weaker. I suspect one of them is wrong.

The media and establishment machine is dead set against [Sleezebag]. The problem is
the people are dead set against them. So everything they try to do to [Sleezebag] just
makes him stronger. Some people in the know have been waiting for a [Sleezebag] for a
long, long time. Basically he's discovered that 80-90% of the population is getting
totally ignored. All he has to do is deal with the issues they care about and he wins.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2015, 05:41:07 PM
Quote
A Conundrum for Jeb Bush: How to Use George W.
The New York Times
By JONATHAN MARTIN and MATT FLEGENHEIMER  OCT. 4, 2015


(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/05/us/05bush-web01/05bush-web01-master675.jpg)
Jeb Bush spoke with a reporter at Rice Energy in Canonsburg, Pa., last week. The question of how to use the candidate’s older brother, George W. Bush, is an agonizing one for the campaign. Credit Jeff Swensen for The New York Times



GREENVILLE, S.C. — With Jeb Bush struggling to connect with some Republican activists, his campaign has begun exploring whether to bring in the person it thinks may be best equipped to give him a boost with skeptical conservatives: his brother George W. Bush.

The 43rd president is a very popular figure among Republican voters and could deliver a needed jolt to his brother’s sluggish campaign.

Advisers to Jeb Bush in this crucial early primary state have asked national campaign officials in recent weeks to send in George Bush, 69, who so far has appeared only at private fund-raisers, to vouch for his younger brother on the campaign trail.

The request for reinforcement underlines the growing urgency that backers of Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor, feel as other candidates vault ahead of him by stirring the passions of the party’s base.

But the question of how to use the candidate’s older brother is an agonizing one for the campaign. While dispatching George Bush to a state like South Carolina could shore up his brother’s standing with conservatives, and remind voters there of a political family they still admire, it could also underscore the impression that Jeb Bush is simply a legacy candidate at a time when voters are itching for change.


(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/05/us/05bush-web02/05bush-web02-articleLarge.jpg)
George W. Bush, center, campaigned with his father, George Bush, in New Hampshire in 2000. The younger former president has so far only appeared at private fund-raisers for Jeb Bush. Credit Stephen Crowley/The New York Times 


What is more, given the former president’s unpopularity among many in the broader electorate, joint appearances by the brothers could provide irresistible footage for Democratic attacks against Jeb Bush if he wins the Republican nomination. The continued instability in the Middle East, in particular, could remind voters of George Bush’s decision to invade Iraq and make joint images of the Bush brothers potent fodder for the opposition.

“It may ruin the race for him down the line, but it could win the race here,” said Katon Dawson, a former chairman of the South Carolina Republican Party.

Still, in this heavily conservative state, which delivered crucial primary wins both to George W. Bush and to his father, the first President George Bush, there is a growing view that Jeb Bush needs to embrace his older brother.

“I do think he’s an asset, and we need him down here — and Barbara, too,” said Sally Atwater, a Republican activist here, referring to the brothers’ mother.

Ms. Atwater, the widow of Lee Atwater, a strategist for the first President Bush, added of the family: “Folks have a relationship with these people already. That’s important. And you need to play off of that.”

Tim Miller, Jeb Bush’s communications director, suggested that the campaign was open to having George Bush appear at rallies for his brother before the state’s primary in February.

(http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/05/us/05bush-JP/05bush-JP-articleLarge.jpg)
Jeb Bush reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at a campaign stop in Bedford, N.H. His brother is seen as an asset in South Carolina. Credit Brian Snyder/Reuters


“To the extent it makes sense on the campaign, we’re going to be happy to have his support, and I know President Bush is willing to help,” Mr. Miller said. “Jeb is running on his record, but there is obviously tremendous respect for and good will toward President Bush in the party and beyond thanks to his leadership in a time of crisis for this country.”

As for the danger of the former president’s undermining his brother’s prospects in a general election, supporters of Jeb Bush believe the Democrats will try to link the two regardless of whether George Bush engages more in the contest.

Even before he announced his candidacy, Jeb Bush wrestled with how much, or how little, to tie himself to his family. He has gone to great lengths to emphasize his own life story and becomes testy when asked about how he differs from his brother, asking voters or reporters if they are precise replicas of their siblings. But he has relied on his family’s fund-raising network to outpace the rest of the Republican field and delivered perhaps his most forceful moment of the debate last month when he defended his brother’s record on terrorism after Donald J. [Sleezebag] ridiculed the former president.

Well before that exchange, some of the former governor’s allies here were pushing for the campaign to make use of George Bush.

Barry Wynn, Jeb Bush’s state co-chairman and a major donor, said he had made two suggestions over the summer to campaign officials about whom to send to Columbia to file the paperwork to be on South Carolina’s primary ballot — a campaign ritual and photo opportunity that is widely covered in local newspapers and political websites.

“I said our first choice is Barbara and our second choice is George W.,” Mr. Wynn recalled. “There’s no question that George W. is probably as popular here as anywhere outside of Texas.”

Jeb Bush’s campaign instead sent his son George P. Bush, who last year was elected to statewide office in Texas.

There has been no recent public polling here measuring George Bush’s standing, but multiple Republicans who have seen private survey data indicate that he is broadly popular among potential South Carolina primary voters. And a New York Times/CBS News survey in May found that, nationally, 71 percent of Republicans had a favorable view of the former president and only 10 percent said they viewed him unfavorably.

At times on the campaign trail, Jeb Bush has acknowledged his predicament. Speaking to voters in New Hampshire last month, he suggested that despite his years in government, he was known widely only because of his last name.

“Around the country they know me as George’s boy and George’s brother, right?” he said. “I’m proud of my family, but I’m not going to get elected by being the third Bush running for president. I got that. I’ve got enough self-awareness to know that that’s the case. I’ve got to go earn it.”

Some of Jeb Bush’s allies are keenly aware of the delicate balance required. Al Cardenas, a longtime Florida Republican Party leader and friend of his, said it was “never a ‘win’ situation” when Jeb Bush was asked about his family.

“Every time you have to face questions about your family’s performance, in some way it interrupts the journey of making sure that your own identity has clarity,” he said.

Jeb Bush has offered mild criticism of his brother’s administration at times. But it is not a role he seems to relish, as was demonstrated when he struggled over the summer to answer questions about whether he would have invaded Iraq, a decision that still weighs down the former president with many voters. The former Florida governor recognizes, however, that for political and symbolic purposes he must create space with his brother.

“My brother didn’t veto bills that he could have vetoed to send a signal that government needs to be reined in,” Mr. Bush said last week in New Hampshire. “Part of that related to the efforts to fight — you know, create the homeland security efforts and to fight the wars and all this. He needed the support to maintain that.”

Jeb Bush’s quandary is reminiscent of the one his brother faced in the 2000 Republican presidential primary. George Bush wanted to prove that he was his own man and, to conservatives, not a replica of his father, who increased taxes and faced a primary challenge from the right in his 1992 re-election bid. But then, as now, there was also considerable good will in Republican ranks toward the Bushes after eight years of having a Democrat in the White House.

“It was an argument we had internally,” recalled Thomas D. Rath, a New Hampshire Republican who supported George Bush in 2000. “We finally decided that if we’re going to pay a price for it with some voters anyway, we may as well get something out of it.”

So the campaign brought George Bush’s parents to a rally in New Hampshire on the Saturday before the state’s primary, and the 41st president said with evident emotion: “This boy — this son of ours — is not going to let you down.”

George Bush was trounced a few days later in the primary for reasons unrelated to that last-minute appearance, but the dynastic overtones were worrisome enough that his parents were largely unseen again until the general election.

But Jeb Bush is not as popular now as his older brother was then among Republican primary voters, and he may not be able to win over conservatives on his own. The question is whether George Bush’s popularity is transferable and if a party that seems hungry for change will respond favorably to a reminder of old family ties.

“They’re probably as fine a people as any on earth,” said Henry McMaster, the lieutenant governor of South Carolina, of the extended Bush clan. “But a lot of folks are in a different mood right now.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/05/us/politics/a-struggling-jeb-bush-may-lean-on-george-w-in-south-carolina.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/05/us/politics/a-struggling-jeb-bush-may-lean-on-george-w-in-south-carolina.html?_r=0)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 05, 2015, 07:48:29 PM
I always preferred Jeb to W., both as a person and a politician.

I've also valued experience. I don't want somebody less than 50 years old running a country or corporation in which I have a stake. I want them to  have lived through war and peace, economic adversity and prosperity. I want them to know how things are supposed to work.

The downside of experience is when it comes to wielding power, and the old rule that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. When you bring in a Clinton or a Bush ( as current examples ), rather than bringing in new ideas, ideals, and approaches, you bring in the maximum amount of people who know how to work the system, and feel entitled to do so.

I appreciate Jeb's family problem. It goes against his principles to speak ill of his own family. Comparisons can be unfair.  I really wish he would have learned more from his brother's mistakes, and those of the neocons.

Ultimately I side with another of my favorite sayings- A lot of life is timing.
Jeb sure picked the wrong time to run for president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2015, 07:54:25 PM
Do a hitch in either house of congress for minimum qualification, Jeb, and we'll talk.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 05, 2015, 09:14:05 PM
No one likes Jeb.  He has all his other issues but mostly its just that he's a Bush
that most people object to.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2015, 09:16:59 PM
I agree.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 05, 2015, 10:26:13 PM
Do a hitch in either house of congress for minimum qualification, Jeb, and we'll talk.

To me, being a governor of a larger state is a better qualification than congressman.

Interesting. As for recent presidents, Obama lost for US congress and won for senate. G.W. Bush lost for US congress and became a Governor. He had Whitehouse staff experience.  Carter, Clinton and Reagan were outsider governors. Ford was House Minority leader and then VP. Nixon was a Congressman, Senator, and VP. Truman was a senator and VP. Ike was a general. FDR was Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and governor of New York.

The standout is of course George Herbert Walker Bush- US Congress, Envoy to China, Ambassador to the UN, Director of the CIA, Chairman of the RNC, VP. He also found time to fit this into his public life-

" After a Democratic administration took power in 1977, Bush became chairman on the Executive Committee of the First International Bank in Houston.[38] He later spent a year as a part-time professor of Administrative Science at Rice University's Jones School of Business beginning in 1978, the year it opened; Bush said of his time there, "I loved my brief time in the world of academia."[39] Between 1977 and 1979, he was a director of the Council on Foreign Relations foreign policy organization.[40]" - Wikipedia

Yes, I knew most of this stuff, but I looked it all up, just to be sure, because I couldn't remember Ford's presidency when I started typing.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on October 06, 2015, 12:29:31 AM
Do a hitch in either house of congress for minimum qualification, Jeb, and we'll talk.

To me, being a governor of a larger state is a better qualification than congressman.
With that definition of "qualification," where would Arnold Schwarzenegger rank?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 06, 2015, 02:33:23 AM
Constitutionally disqualified.

Personally, I have more doubts about Cruz than Obama, but scholars seem to agree that the definition of the term natural-born citizen 230 years ago would include him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 06, 2015, 11:54:51 AM
Oh Barry Sotoro and his fake birth certificate yeah. They actually forgot to take off the
watermark when they photoshopped it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 06, 2015, 07:01:22 PM
I will admit I am truly enjoying the [Sleezebag] steamroll. The more they attack the more they try to ignore him the
stronger he gets.  ;lol


You may well be right, but that remains to be seen. 
The last two polls have him getting stronger, then weaker. I suspect one of them is wrong.
The stronger poll of 32%-5.1% = 26.9% is slightly below his current 30 day average of 27.53%
The weaker poll of 17%+5.0% = 22%, well below.

Now it could be that the 17% result is so erroneous that it skews the 30 day average.

Or it could be that people are flipping from [Sleezebag] to Carson on the basis of Carson's remarks about Muslims being unqualified to be president.  If wild remarks can work for [Sleezebag], why not for Carson, too?

Me, I'd like to wait for another poll to confirm a trend one way or another.


Even so, becoming president is not exactly a national popularity contest. It's also a matter of fund-raising, strategic planning, and organizing. First you have to get the nomination, then you have to win the electoral college. If it were easy, everybody would do it.


Well, it appears that the steamroller is gathering steam, as vonboch said.  The IBT/TIPP poll is at odds with the Gravis marketing poll from the same day. It looks like a fluke. The other poll follows the trend. http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls (http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls)

Gravis- [Sleezebag] 34.7%  Carson 17.2%
IBD-     [Sleezebag] 17%    Carson 24%
30 Day avg.- [Sleezebag] 27.78%  Carson 16.66%
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 06, 2015, 09:16:45 PM
Quote
Well, it appears that the steamroller is gathering steam, as vonboch said.  The IBT/TIPP poll is at odds with the Gravis marketing poll from the same day. It looks like a fluke. The other poll follows the trend. http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls (http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls)

Gravis- [Sleezebag] 34.7%  Carson 17.2%
IBD-     [Sleezebag] 17%    Carson 24%
30 Day avg.- [Sleezebag] 27.78%  Carson 16.66%


Every time I hear politics being discussed people are  talking about [Sleezebag].
Not in a bad way either. He's basically saying what most ordinary Americans
have  wanted for years. Someone summed up his tax plan as
"He likes money and wants you to have more of it." The only thing that will stop a
[Sleezebag] presidency is massive obvious vote fraud or an assassins bullet.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Green1 on October 06, 2015, 11:41:30 PM
Quote
Well, it appears that the steamroller is gathering steam, as vonboch said.  The IBT/TIPP poll is at odds with the Gravis marketing poll from the same day. It looks like a fluke. The other poll follows the trend. http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls (http://election-polls.org/?order=30day#polls)

Gravis- [Sleezebag] 34.7%  Carson 17.2%
IBD-     [Sleezebag] 17%    Carson 24%
30 Day avg.- [Sleezebag] 27.78%  Carson 16.66%


Every time I hear politics being discussed people are  talking about [Sleezebag].
Not in a bad way either. He's basically saying what most ordinary Americans
have  wanted for years. Someone summed up his tax plan as
"He likes money and wants you to have more of it." The only thing that will stop a
[Sleezebag] presidency is massive obvious vote fraud or an assassins bullet.



Unfortunately, this is what I am seeing too. He is appealing to the drones who secretly want to be like him talking from the hip and a disdain for immigrants and militant 3rd wave feminism/ political "correctness". As much as he is kind of buffoonish, this appeals to A LOT of people who will overlook stuff just because they are sick of it. (and kind of rightfully so - but that is for another thread)

Although, I do not think the Clintons are going to take it laying down. I predict a nasty, mudslinging election.

Sad we will not get someone a bit more progressive and socialist in. But, hasn't these things always been a choice between the shiniest of two turds?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 07, 2015, 05:26:37 AM
Quote
He is appealing to the drones who secretly want to be like him talking from the hip and a disdain for immigrants and militant 3rd wave feminism/ political "correctness".
This is the attitude thats causing the backlash. People aren't drones and we aren't cattle either.
After a bit the arrogance gets a bit old and people are well past sick of it. We've been ignored for far too long.
Or told to shut up and deal with it. Whats going on is were taking our country back.

Quote
Sad we will not get someone a bit more progressive and socialist in.
Progressing towards what? This country cant survive more progressives.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on October 11, 2015, 01:07:27 AM
Quote
He is appealing to the drones who secretly want to be like him talking from the hip and a disdain for immigrants and militant 3rd wave feminism/ political "correctness".
This is the attitude thats causing the backlash. People aren't drones and we aren't cattle either.
After a bit the arrogance gets a bit old and people are well past sick of it. We've been ignored for far too long.
Or told to shut up and deal with it. Whats going on is were taking our country back.

Quote
Sad we will not get someone a bit more progressive and socialist in.
Progressing towards what? This country cant survive more progressives.
Why should we the people not create a new government that fufills the needs of the majority rather than the financial and political elite? Why should the common people continue to endure a system that leaves them impoverished with few opportunties toward improvement? Why should we the people continue to tolerate a system that has become bloated with bureaucracy and excessive interference in meeting the demands of the people? Where do we the people obtain the criteria by which it becomes acceptable of groups in our society to say, "We believe the harm done by our government towards it people has become unbearable"? When do we the people rise up against the harm and the despotic nature of our government?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on October 11, 2015, 01:47:28 AM
Quote
He is appealing to the drones who secretly want to be like him talking from the hip and a disdain for immigrants and militant 3rd wave feminism/ political "correctness".
This is the attitude thats causing the backlash. People aren't drones and we aren't cattle either.
After a bit the arrogance gets a bit old and people are well past sick of it. We've been ignored for far too long.
Or told to shut up and deal with it. Whats going on is were taking our country back.

Quote
Sad we will not get someone a bit more progressive and socialist in.
Progressing towards what? This country cant survive more progressives.
Why should we the people not create a new government that fufills the needs of the majority rather than the financial and political elite? Why should the common people continue to endure a system that leaves them impoverished with few opportunties toward improvement? Why should we the people continue to tolerate a system that has become bloated with bureaucracy and excessive interference in meeting the demands of the people? Where do we the people obtain the criteria by which it becomes acceptable of groups in our society to say, "We believe the harm done by our government towards it people has become unbearable"? When do we the people rise up against the harm and the despotic nature of our government?
     The present country we live in was founded upon the principles of revolution. In 1775 the U.S. colonies began a revolution to overthrow the reins of British control. This revolutionary action allowed our present country to come into existence and set a precedence that people can overthrow corrupt governments with sufficient might. With the fact that our government has the potential to reform itself through revolution, the above rhetorical questions raise several points that require analysis.
     The first point that requires analysis is the determination of the wrongs that this system has commited against the majority of people present in our country. These wrongs can receive formal recognition through the enshrinement in a list that clearly states, with considerable evidence to support the claims in other credible sources, the morally incorrect acts that our government has committed against its people. This list should include a list that considers the reasons that these wrongs represent crimes worthy of drastic actions similiar to a revolution.
     The second point that requires consideration is the boundaries and limits by which the people in our country must tolerate the actions of a government. This means that people must have the perception and the motivation to take action against the wrongs that actually occur against the people in our country. This safety valve would prevent random uprisings over fairly trivial matters, yet it would still the people to correct any errors that might arise in a government over its lifespan.
     The third point that requires analysis is the recongition of appropriate methods to overthrow a political system that the majority of people see as corrupt. This requires an understanding of politics, military theory, and various other subjects. This means that it requires an individual with a significant amount of experience in these matters to determine the appropriate course of action. That means the leaders of a revolution would have to recruit the support of powerful political figures in the government and military to procure the required strength to achieve this goal. That means it will require either the support of a strong minority or the support of a majority of people within our society to achieve this goal.
    Another point that furthermore illustrates the above claim is that people should retain the ability to fight against that which they know is unfair. The ability to recognize the wrong in a action becomes ensnared in a variety of moral and political questions that receive analysis in plenty of different sources. It should suffice to say that people must become throughly educated about an issue before they come to a conclusion because hasty generalizations often fail to accurately potray reality. This particular issue requires individuals to analyze an issue within the scope of his or her moral stance before they rush to make a conclusion because the action one group considers correct another might find reprehensible. This particular issue therefore is the foremost reason that the majority of individuals in a revolution must create a solid list of grievances that they all agree have occured based upon the available evidence.
     In final consideration of the above information, it becomes necessary to recognize that a revolution in the modern period would look signficantly different from a revolution in the late 1700's. It would require recognition that the nature of conflict within such a revolution would vary dramatically. Regardless of the above, the fundamental desire to free themselves of an oppressive government remains the same. It therefore appears that this particular action remains possible within our current state of affairs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 11, 2015, 02:17:55 AM
Quote
He is appealing to the drones who secretly want to be like him talking from the hip and a disdain for immigrants and militant 3rd wave feminism/ political "correctness".
This is the attitude thats causing the backlash. People aren't drones and we aren't cattle either.
After a bit the arrogance gets a bit old and people are well past sick of it. We've been ignored for far too long.
Or told to shut up and deal with it. Whats going on is were taking our country back.

Quote
Sad we will not get someone a bit more progressive and socialist in.
Progressing towards what? This country cant survive more progressives.
Why should we the people not create a new government that fufills the needs of the majority rather than the financial and political elite? Why should the common people continue to endure a system that leaves them impoverished with few opportunties toward improvement? Why should we the people continue to tolerate a system that has become bloated with bureaucracy and excessive interference in meeting the demands of the people? Where do we the people obtain the criteria by which it becomes acceptable of groups in our society to say, "We believe the harm done by our government towards it people has become unbearable"? When do we the people rise up against the harm and the despotic nature of our government?

I suspect vonbach agrees 100%, and the only question is whether the progressives are trying to solve the problem, or contributing to or causing it (or both).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 11, 2015, 07:17:15 AM
Quote
I suspect vonbach agrees 100%, and the only question is whether the progressives are trying to solve the problem, or contributing to or causing it (or both).

Pretty much.
Progressives are the cause of this. At this point we are two countries and we simply cant go on like this.
We weren't asked about any of the issues gay marriage, abortion, multiculturalism,  whatever.
We aren't consulted we are dictated to. We are long past the point of the original revolution.
Quote
Why should we the people not create a new government that fufills the needs of the majority rather than the financial and political elite?

What majority? The one they are importing from the third world or the original one they are replacing?
Its the old Communist line of "de-electing a population and installing a new one."
You realize that under UN law whats being done to white populations is genocide?

Quote
That means it will require either the support of a strong minority or the support of a majority of people within our society to achieve this goal.

The IRA fought a major military power to a standstill with 20 shooters. The USA has a 60 million people with firearms.
Most of them used to shooting at man sized targets at long range.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 13, 2015, 11:48:00 PM
Quote
Hillary Clinton and her rivals all want the same thing tonight at the Democratic debate
Yahoo! Politics
Hunter Walker  ‎October‎ ‎13‎, ‎2015



LAS VEGAS – All the Democrats — including Hillary Clinton — who will be on stage for their first 2016 presidential primary debate Tuesday night say they want to introduce themselves to American voters.

Clinton is a former first lady, senator and secretary of state. She’s also the current frontrunner in the Democratic presidential field. Still, her campaign thinks people aren’t necessarily familiar with the platform she’s running on.

“We think it’s a great opportunity for Hillary because she has laid out a very detailed progressive policy agenda over the course of this campaign,” Clinton campaign spokeswoman Christina Reynolds told Yahoo News on Tuesday afternoon. “She’s laid out her vision for America, she’s talked about what she believes is the fundamental challenge facing the next president and what are the challenges that … keep families up at night. She’s talked about what she would do to solve them. Now, if you’re not a voter in one of the early states, you may have missed some of that.”

Reynolds went on to explain how people may have “missed” the Clinton agenda.

“You may not have been paying attention yet or, you know, the news has been caught up in political clutter,” Reynolds said. “So this is really an opportunity for millions of people to hear for the first time who she’s going to fight for and what she’s going to do as president.”

Since Clinton launched her campaign in April, her team has sought to brand her as a “champion for everyday Americans,” specifically families. In the intervening months, the headlines have been dominated by stories about the questions relating to Clinton’s use of a private email server while she led the State Department and other campaign intrigue. Reynolds suggested the debate will be a chance for Clinton to have a more policy-focused discussion, including highlighting her past record.

“I think this will be an opportunity to remind people that she has spent her career fighting for children and families,” Reynolds said.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/d0xwZyOSDcBYNoqxs8scYw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/7907f354a2d9605db9876d9e706f37b7/tumblr_inline_nw6g9qPyM61tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Hillary Clinton arrives at a labor rally in Las Vegas on Monday. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


Given Clinton’s high profile, her campaign’s claim they want to familiarize people with her more at the debate might seem surprising. However, it’s obvious her lesser-known rivals need to make an introduction if they hope to catch up to her in the polls.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., is Clinton’s top opponent. He has surged in state and national polling, and even managed to edge past Clinton in New Hampshire, but his press secretary, Symone Sanders (no relation), told Yahoo News that “his name ID is still a little low in a lot of communities.”

“We are looking forward to the debate tonight. It is an opportunity for the senator to introduce himself to the American people,” Symone said, adding, “Tonight, this is a chance for the senator to go out on that stage and be Bernie Sanders and let America know who Bernie Sanders is and what he stands for. And we believe that, once America gets to know Bernie Sanders, they’re going to love him and they’re going to want to vote for him.”

Former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb and two ex-governors, Maryland’s Martin O’Malley and Rhode Island’s Lincoln Chafee, are bringing up the rear in the polls — far behind Clinton and Sanders. They all clearly need to introduce themselves to voters too. The Webb and Chafee campaigns did not respond to requests for comment from Yahoo ahead of the debate, but O’Malley press secretary Haley Morris confirmed the former executive’s team wants people to “get to know the governor.”

“It will be the introduction where he can introduce his record of getting progressive results in Maryland and also make his case for his … bold and progressive vision of the progressive goals that he’s set for the country,” Morris said, adding, “When you go through the priorities for the Democratic Party, whether that’s raising the minimum wage, or tackling climate change, or, you know, taking action to fix our inhumane immigration system, these are all examples where the governor can say, ‘I don’t just hold these progressive principles, but I know what it takes as a leader, as someone with 15 years of executive experience, I know what it takes to forge consensus and get that done.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/2cC_oD79E_yEEcAUr3Wu.w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://36.media.tumblr.com/0cf8163c987d73382f4e3e4b65380683/tumblr_inline_nw6gdiMr6T1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Former Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute Public Policy Conference in Washington earlier this month. (Photo: Jose Luis Magana/AP)


Morris said O’Malley has been laying “groundwork” in the early states and, now that he’s getting in front of a national audience, “the fight is just getting started.”

Still, for now, the spotlight is clearly on Clinton and Sanders. As they both hope to introduce themselves and their platforms, one of the major questions is whether Sanders, who has thus far refrained from attacking Clinton, will go on the offensive. His press secretary, Symone Sanders, said that, like Clinton, he wants to focus on policy.

“You’re not going to see much of a change because, you know, we’re going to give you quintessential Bernie Sanders,” Symone said. “Bernie has never ran a negative attack ad in his life, and we’re not going to start tonight on the debate stage. What we are going to do is we’re going to differentiate on the issues so Bernie can tell the American people where he stands.”

Symone said she expects Sanders to focus on what has long been his main theme — the fight against income inequality — as well as climate change.

“Bernie is speaking to the life-and-death issues that everyday Americans are dealing with,” said Symone. “These are the conversations that people are having at their dinner tables, the things that folks are talking about with their friends. These are the issues that, quote unquote, keep them up at night.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clinton-and-her-rivals-all-want-the-same-204126385.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clinton-and-her-rivals-all-want-the-same-204126385.html)



I found out three of these people existed yesterday...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 12:04:56 AM
Quote
How a team of Obama veterans helped Bernie Sanders pull in a record number of donations
Yahoo! Politics
Alyssa Bereznak  National Correspondent, Technology  October‎ ‎07‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/SltdjPthOMFSfOLswE41IA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/891a47884bb2781d5c9eeb89b072e465/tumblr_inline_nvulvtp7ri1qchxpg_1280.jpg)
Sen. Bernie Sanders at a campaign rally in Springfield, Mass. (Photo: Michael Dwyer/AP).



On the last Tuesday in September, an important deadline loomed for the men and women who would be president. The Federal Election Commission requires those running for office to report how much their campaigns have raised each quarter, and the last-minute fundraising appeals that ensue often reach a dramatic pitch as politicians seek to raise a figure that proves they have staying power.

Starting at about 9:30 p.m. that evening, online donations through Sen. Bernie Sanders’s website, store and the ActBlue fundraising site reached the phenomenal clip of about two contributions per second. They stayed at that high and steady pace until the clock struck midnight. When all was said and done, online fundraising efforts like this helped the campaign raise a whopping $26 million for the quarter — just $2 million fewer than Democratic primary frontrunner and establishment favorite Hillary Clinton.

Sanders also reported more than 1 million contributions — more even than Barack Obama had pulled in during the early part of his groundbreaking 2008 presidential run. It was a major milestone for the Vermont senator’s Cinderella story campaign, proving he has both the voter base and the financial wherewithal to compete with Clinton.

If Sanders’s record-setting number of donors served as a wake-up call to establishment Democrats about the strength of the insurgent Sanders campaign, it was no surprise to those inside his operation.

Since May, a small guerilla-marketing team whose members have been part of some of the most successful insurgent campaigns in the Democratic Party have been working to translate grassroots enthusiasm for Sanders into dollars.

At its helm is Scott Goodstein, a former music marketer who made a living hyping bands like Korn prior to his political career. In 2007, after “drinking beers and talking” with Obama’s main digital strategist at the time, he and his friend, videographer Arun Chaudhary, were hired by the famously innovative campaign to help create a groundswell of support online and in local communities.

In 2009, after Obama’s election, Goodstein took everything he learned from the campaign and launched Revolution Messaging, bringing on a “lean-and-mean” group of digital marketing veterans to help. Tim Tagaris, who cut his teeth on Sen. Chris Murphy’s successful campaign against Republican Linda McMahon, and on Ned Lamont’s netroots-fueled fight against one-time Democratic vice presidential nominee and incumbent Sen. Joe Lieberman, came on as a partner. He hired Michael Whitney, who had worked for Howard Dean’s pioneering 2004 presidential campaign as well as the cause-and-petitions site Change.org. Chaudhary joined up after leaving the White House, where he had been Obama’s first videographer.

Since July, Revolution Messaging has been tasked with overseeing social media, online fundraising, web design and digital advertising for Sanders, sending a steady stream of text messages, emails and issue-based ads urging supporters to donate or volunteer. The team also nurtures and helps grow the communities on Sanders’s already popular Facebook and Reddit pages.

“After seeing the immediate response the first few hours after [Sanders] said that he was running for president, nothing would surprise me,” Tagaris, who heads up the email fundraising team for Sanders, told Yahoo News after the third quarter fundraising numbers were revealed.

The effort is not all that different from the scrappy, ultra-efficient operation that Goodstein and many members of his current workforce ran for Obama’s campaign in 2008. But to equate the two campaigns is to overlook both the way Internet use has evolved over the past eight years, and the unique personality of Sanders as a candidate.

Since the 2008 election, the economy has migrated to Internet-based services, the mobile industry has exploded and a generation of young people weaned on the art of personal branding is more skeptical of pandering than ever. It’s these pivotal changes in the digital world and the people who live in it that explain Sanders’s appeal and the passionate response his campaign has been enjoying.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/iLJJipl84vpwhE8tiqV1Yw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/dc15777ff32e81b0cc5fc40f2abf9ecb/tumblr_inline_nvulzc9ePp1qchxpg_1280.jpg)
Sanders greets supporters after speaking during a campaign rally. (Photo: Michael Dwyer/AP).


Goodstein recalls that when he joined Obama’s campaign in January 2007, the iPhone had not yet been released and text messaging was still something people labored over on their flip phones. Now, he says, more people are comfortable donating money online, ad gateways have become more sophisticated and news breaks much quicker. Even organizing large rallies has become cheaper and easier to do on the fly.

“It’s a different world,” he told Yahoo News. “We’re excited that we achieved the millionth contribution a lot quicker [than with the Obama campaign], but it’s also because the Internet has grown up.”

For Sanders, the high number of donations thus far can be credited to a support base that’s deeply engaged in specific issues — especially the influence of what he so disdainfully refers to as “the billionaire class.” It’s also come from seizing smart opportunities for fundraising. When on two occasions super-PACs representing fellow Democratic contenders Martin O’Malley and Hillary Clinton used negative tactics against Sanders, Goodstein’s team acted swiftly to launch targeted web ads and send out emails to the campaign’s master contact list, imploring subscribers to contribute to prevent the wealthy from influencing the election. When the O’Malley-connected super-PAC first ran a YouTube ad criticizing Sanders in March, the campaign raised much more than it usually did in a normal week. And when the Huffington Post reported that a Clinton-connected super-PAC had been circulating negative emails about Sanders, his campaign raised a record-breaking $1.2 million in less than 48 hours.

“None of this stuff works if there isn’t that energy out there,” Goodstein said. “Clearly people are fired up on these issues, and my team’s doing a good job of smartly figuring out how to harness that energy and make sure that you have the opportunity to engage in a positive way.”

But the steadfast support for Sanders’s campaign is not just derived from frustration with the electoral meddling of elite donors and billionaires. According to Whitney, who heads the company’s email fundraising with Tagaris, email solicitations have been responsible for a significant portion of Sanders’s donations. The loyalty established among the campaign’s followers, he says, is due to their willingness to learn about the policies that are central to the election, and parse through emails from Sanders that are sometimes as long as 2,000 words. These messages address both newsworthy events like the pope’s visit, and issues that Sanders feels passionate about, such as prescription drug reform, or student debt. In the latter email, the staff asked subscribers to reply with what it would mean to them to have no tuition debt, and then re-circulated some of the answers it got to the same list. Sometimes the emails are targeted and include fundraising appeals, but sometimes they are just about messaging and connecting.

“People really feel ownership of this campaign,” Whitney said. “The language that Senator Sanders uses shows everyone is a part of this, and that really encourages people to chip in.”

Goodstein, who enlisted artist Shepard Fairey to create the iconic blue-and-red “Hope” posters for Obama’s presidential campaign in 2008, has embraced the idea of collaboration. He’s put some members of Sanders’s Reddit page to work coding special projects. And in late September, he posted a list of famous actors, musicians and other creatives who have publicly backed Bernie.

“We’re looking to put everybody to work,” Goodstein said. “So if you don’t have a thousand dollars, what kind of craft or skill can you donate?”

Perhaps the paramount asset in Sanders’s successful digital campaign is the consistent presence of the candidate himself. His unmistakable persona, along with his unkempt hair and heavy Brooklyn accent, remain a point of attraction to many voters who distrust an overly groomed political class. Former White House aide Chaudhary, for his part, is now doing shareable Bernie vérité videos that highlight these characteristics for social distribution.

“The real innovation here is the authenticity, and the willingness to speak at length about the issues that people are facing every day,” Tagaris said. “Treating people with that kind of respect has really yielded a tremendous response for the senator.”

Despite the amount of money the Sanders campaign has raised thus far, the candidate still faces a number of financial obstacles. According to Richard Hassen, a professor specializing in election law at the University of Irvine’s law school, Sanders’s sizeable support from small donors does not necessarily mean he’ll be successful in the primaries.

“There are some candidates that tend to attract more broad-based support than others,” Hassen told Yahoo News “Barack Obama did it, Howard Dean did it, Ron Paul did it and Ted Cruz has that going on. But having that base does not guarantee success, as Howard Dean can tell you.”

Because Clinton has the advantageous support of super-PACs, which are less beholden to donation limits, she’s also able to spend a much higher fraction of her donations than Sanders. According to the New York Times, Clinton has spent 90 percent of the $28 million she raised for her campaign between April and July. Sanders, by comparison, has spent an estimated $15 million, mostly on his online fundraising operation and hiring staff. Stephen Spaulding, a senior policy adviser at the nonprofit organization Common Cause, says we’ve yet to see the effects of super-PAC donations in the 2016 race.

“This is the second presidential election post-Citizens United,” he told Yahoo News. “We’re going to see even more outside money, and candidates that are relying on small donors need to build up a defense against this big money. I’m sure they’re planning for those anonymous attack ads from super-PACs that’ll be headed their way.”

Rest assured that Goodstein already has a cache of emails and targeted ads queued up for the next one, ready to mobilize the Sanders base to fight back.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/how-a-team-of-obama-veterans-helped-bernie-sanders-131204886.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/how-a-team-of-obama-veterans-helped-bernie-sanders-131204886.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on October 14, 2015, 02:04:45 AM
What majority? The one they are importing from the third world or the original one they are replacing?

The "majority" they are "importing" from the third world tends not to support things like gay marriage and abortion, what with them being heavily Catholic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 02:06:53 AM
;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 03:06:06 AM
Probable quote of the night:

Bernie Sanders: "I think the secretary's right ... the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails!"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 14, 2015, 03:55:47 AM
Quote
The "majority" they are "importing" from the third world tends not to support things like gay marriage and abortion, what with them being heavily Catholic.

Just look at the countries they come from. They are all socialist third world countries.
They aren't "natural conservatives." They vote themselves more money.
In this case our money. "Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 04:11:32 AM
You know, there's a point in there underlining the schizophrenia of the Republican party.  The Cheney administration sided with big business interests every. single. time., no matter what.  You're possibly to young to have been aware of the business where they backed regulations that considerably extended how far into the US Mexican truckers were allows to go before they had to stop and off-load their cargo.  I don't have to have watched Lou Dobbs (or any of the openly Mexican-hating element) around then to know how that went over with their (frankly Mexican-hating) base.  It was just a terrible political move.  But that's the Bush occupation all over for you; business interests always won with them, and business likes cheap labor.

Yeah, I didn't start to get into politics until I was about 16, so most of my knowledge comes from reading about past events rather than remembering/experiencing their effects. The only political stuff I remember from before then was mostly racism: I'm related to several illegal immigrants, although I myself am legal. I remember my dad getting stopped for a lot of "random" checks at the airport for being brown, the only Bush policies I remember were post 9/11 racism.

Mind-bogglingly, though, many of my Mexican relatives are hardcore conservatives. Hell, some of my illegal-alien relatives are now hardcore conservatives that themselves hate illegal immigrants now. That's Fox News for you.
I actually see the sense in that, and why the talking heads are obsessed with latins this week - they've lost the blacks pretty much forever, or until a lot more blacks aren't poor. 

Latins?  How can any good hardcore old-school Catholic not find some attraction to the social conservative wing of the right, if only the social conservatives weren't the racists too?

(I know I'm offending  many conservatives reading, and I appologize for that; it's just the facts as I know them, and I WILL tell some stories from things I've seen and heard in my life if I'm challenged on this point.)
I actually see the sense in that, and why the talking heads are obsessed with latins this week - they've lost the blacks pretty much forever, or until a lot more blacks aren't poor. 

Latins?  How can any good hardcore old-school Catholic not find some attraction to the social conservative wing of the right, if only the social conservatives weren't the racists too?

(I know I'm offending  many conservatives reading, and I appologize for that; it's just the facts as I know them, and I WILL tell some stories from things I've seen and heard in my life if I'm challenged on this point.)

You hit the nail on the head there. I just wish my relatives would have different priorities. But they care more about mandating Christian morality than ensuring their own wellbeing against racists.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on October 14, 2015, 04:34:37 AM
Quote
The "majority" they are "importing" from the third world tends not to support things like gay marriage and abortion, what with them being heavily Catholic.

Just look at the countries they come from. They are all socialist third world countries.
They aren't "natural conservatives." They vote themselves more money.
In this case our money. "Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money."

You'll note I was responding to your claims about gay marriage and abortion, not anything to do with socialism. You're only conflating the two because it's much easier to hate one big bloc of people than many individual blocs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2015, 04:46:31 AM
Didn't watch. Not that I don't care so much as I can't stand you know who and would rather read about it.

Nice article, which reminds me that I can actually annoy Hillary and support the idea of a Constitutional Amendment to overturn the Citizen's United decision, by donating to Bernie.  That could happen if the PACS annoy me with their ads.

Is it just me, or is she looking younger and younger since she entered the race?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 04:55:20 AM
Beats me - but she's looked a lot worse than she looked tonight.



Other apparent sound bite of the night: Lincoln Chafee criticized Clinton's use of private email while secretary of state, saying it hurts U.S. authority. Moderator Anderson Cooper asked for Clinton's response, to which she replied, "no."



I'm curious, given what the talking heads and various people are saying on the innerwebs -someone actually called it an adults' debate- how this is going to affect the national dialogue and the laughable pie-fight on the right.

The Democrats, in typical form, have been idiots to surrender the stage for so any months this way...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2015, 07:20:29 AM
Beats me - but she's looked a lot worse than she looked tonight.

Yes, she looked good. That normally happens to presidential candidates. The gray goes away. Sometimes the wrinkles. Remember when Mondale got a nose job "For my sinuses" ? Or Sarah Palin's designer glasses and clothes?


The Democrats, in typical form, have been idiots to surrender the stage for so any months this way...

Yes, I agree. Our local NBC affiliate still managed to make their news coverage of the Democratic debate about the Republican frontrunner and his Tweets.

Well from what I read Hillary was her lawyerly self, and Bernie was normal passionate and sincere self.

One thing that disturbed me a little was the talk about free college for all, which can't be cheap. I don't know if this is aimed at buying votes, recruiting campaign workers, just a well intentioned ideal about universal opportunity, or a master scheme to perpetuate democratic power by pouring money into professor's, grad students' and union worker's pockets, and  who will in turn indoctrinate future generations, donating both time and money back to the Democratic party..

Anyway as a reporter pointed out, universal college subsidies are regressive, as opposed to doing it by merit or by need. It takes taxes from average working families to give freebies to the rich kids.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 14, 2015, 10:33:20 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders: "I think the secretary's right ... the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails!"
She should be in jail over it. Not running for office.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 14, 2015, 10:38:51 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders: "I think the secretary's right ... the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails!"
She should be in jail over it. Not running for office.
Quote
You'll note I was responding to your claims about gay marriage and abortion, not anything to do with socialism.
Like I said look at their countries they don't exactly act conservative in their home countries.
We don't get a vote on either issue regardless. We have judges legislating from the bench.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 14, 2015, 03:30:13 PM
Quote
Bernie Sanders: "I think the secretary's right ... the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails!"
She should be in jail over it. Not running for office.

She broke no law. (at least not the LETTER of any laws)

Should there be a law?  Yep. 

Why wasn't there a law when the issue of private email servers being used to circumvent official recordkeeping laws had come up in both the original Clinton administration and Bush Jr administration? 

Why is the focus not on CREATING A LAW that would solve this problem going forward?  Nope, we're just going to point fingers and let it happen again. 

In fact, did you know the Hatch Law mandates Government officials HAVE to use a private email server for at least SOME of their business?  Because you can't use the gubment server for "political" use. 

So, we've had this problem going on 20 years now, and we're still just going with the status quo.  Lovely.  See you next administration when someone uses a private email server and "loses" emails. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2015, 06:21:59 PM
Quote
The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus
The New York Times
David Brooks   OCT. 13, 2015



The House Republican caucus is close to ungovernable these days. How did this situation come about?

This was not just the work of the Freedom Caucus or Ted Cruz or one month’s activity. The Republican Party’s capacity for effective self-governance degraded slowly, over the course of a long chain of rhetorical excesses, mental corruptions and philosophical betrayals. Basically, the party abandoned traditional conservatism for right-wing radicalism. Republicans came to see themselves as insurgents and revolutionaries, and every revolution tends toward anarchy and ends up devouring its own.
 
By traditional definitions, conservatism stands for intellectual humility, a belief in steady, incremental change, a preference for reform rather than revolution, a respect for hierarchy, precedence, balance and order, and a tone of voice that is prudent, measured and responsible. Conservatives of this disposition can be dull, but they know how to nurture and run institutions. They also see the nation as one organic whole. Citizens may fall into different classes and political factions, but they are still joined by chains of affection that command ultimate loyalty and love.

All of this has been overturned in dangerous parts of the Republican Party. Over the past 30 years, or at least since Rush Limbaugh came on the scene, the Republican rhetorical tone has grown ever more bombastic, hyperbolic and imbalanced. Public figures are prisoners of their own prose styles, and Republicans from Newt Gingrich through Ben Carson have become addicted to a crisis mentality. Civilization was always on the brink of collapse. Every setback, like the passage of Obamacare, became the ruination of the republic. Comparisons to Nazi Germany became a staple.

This produced a radical mind-set. Conservatives started talking about the Reagan “revolution,” the Gingrich “revolution.” Among people too ill educated to understand the different spheres, political practitioners adopted the mental habits of the entrepreneur. Everything had to be transformational and disruptive. Hierarchy and authority were equated with injustice. Self-expression became more valued than self-restraint and coalition building. A contempt for politics infested the Republican mind.
 
Politics is the process of making decisions amid diverse opinions. It involves conversation, calm deliberation, self-discipline, the capacity to listen to other points of view and balance valid but competing ideas and interests.

But this new Republican faction regards the messy business of politics as soiled and impure. Compromise is corruption. Inconvenient facts are ignored. Countrymen with different views are regarded as aliens. Political identity became a sort of ethnic identity, and any compromise was regarded as a blood betrayal.
 
A weird contradictory mentality replaced traditional conservatism. Republican radicals have contempt for politics, but they still believe that transformational political change can rescue the nation. Republicans developed a contempt for Washington and government, but they elected leaders who made the most lavish promises imaginable. Government would be reduced by a quarter! Shutdowns would happen! The nation would be saved by transformational change! As Steven Bilakovics writes in his book “Democracy Without Politics,” “even as we expect ever less of democracy we apparently expect ever more from democracy.”

This anti-political political ethos produced elected leaders of jaw-dropping incompetence. Running a government is a craft, like carpentry. But the new Republican officials did not believe in government and so did not respect its traditions, its disciplines and its craftsmanship. They do not accept the hierarchical structures of authority inherent in political activity.

In his masterwork, “Politics as a Vocation,” Max Weber argues that the pre-eminent qualities for a politician are passion, a feeling of responsibility and a sense of proportion. A politician needs warm passion to impel action but a cool sense of responsibility and proportion to make careful decisions in a complex landscape.

If a politician lacks the quality of detachment — the ability to let the difficult facts of reality work their way into the mind — then, Weber argues, the politician ends up striving for the “boastful but entirely empty gesture.” His work “leads nowhere and is senseless.”

Welcome to Ted Cruz, Donald [Sleezebag] and the Freedom Caucus.
 
Really, have we ever seen bumbling on this scale, people at once so cynical and so naïve, so willfully ignorant in using levers of power to produce some tangible if incremental good? These insurgents can’t even acknowledge democracy’s legitimacy — if you can’t persuade a majority of your colleagues, maybe you should accept their position. You might be wrong!

People who don’t accept democracy will be bad at conversation. They won’t respect tradition, institutions or precedent. These figures are masters at destruction but incompetent at construction.

These insurgents are incompetent at governing and unwilling to be governed. But they are not a spontaneous growth. It took a thousand small betrayals of conservatism to get to the dysfunction we see all around.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&src=me&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&src=me&_r=0)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2015, 06:44:06 PM
As for the Clinton e-mails-
Surely the NSA has a copy, why doesn't Congress ask for it? After all, the NSA owes their existence to Congress.

I've concluded they don't really want them. They want to keep the issue simmering through the election, and keep her doing the lawyer dance. That neutralizes her efforts to become "one of us."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 15, 2015, 02:05:33 AM
Quote
She broke no law. (at least not the LETTER of any laws)

Should there be a law?  Yep. 
There is a law and its actually pretty strict. You can just mishandle classified information.
It doesn't matter if she knew they were classified or not or if it was marked classified or not.
From what I've heard of that case if you or I had done what she'd done we'd be in jail right now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 15, 2015, 02:42:08 AM
*sigh*

The law governing the use of the personal server is the Hatch Law.  From 1939.  Ludicrously out of date.  I contend allowing private servers at all should be against the law. 

I'm sure you know more on how classified info is handled than I do.  However, thus far, nothing was classified at  the time she sent it.  Some has since been deemed so, but she was still in the clear.  Now, we can't tell if she secreted any off the server prior to investigation...which goes back to my contention.     



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 15, 2015, 02:50:57 AM
Protip:  a certain AC2 member -I won't say who- regularly handles classified information as part of his or her job...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 15, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
Quote
The law governing the use of the personal server is the Hatch Law.  From 1939.  Ludicrously out of date. 
From what I see its still against the law.  Either she was ignorant of the law and incompetent or she was flat out dishonest.
Then theres the issue of the "deleted" emails. That in itself is a a crime.
Either way it doesn't reflect well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 15, 2015, 01:52:36 PM
Quote
The law governing the use of the personal server is the Hatch Law.  From 1939.  Ludicrously out of date. 
From what I see its still against the law.  Either she was ignorant of the law and incompetent or she was flat out dishonest.

I know it's being portrayed this way by the media, but as of this moment, no, nothing illegal has happened.  In fact, it would actually have been ILLEGAL for the vast majority of the emails to have been sent using the .gov account.  But, that's a tangled mess that doesn't get reported because it's a tangled mess of laws that is boring.  Much easier to go for the sensational.  If they find actual classified emails, then there would have been shenanigans. 

Quote
Then theres the issue of the "deleted" emails. That in itself is a a crime.

Only if it was done after the investigation started.  And you can't prove they were deleted.  This goes to my contention the private servers SHOULD be illegal to prevent this kind of thing. 

Quote
Either way it doesn't reflect well.

My opinion is we are in the middle of a witch hunt.  This VERY SAME incident of private server, possible classified, lost/deleted emails has come up time and again over the last 20 years making little splash in the news cycle.  The rules are a muddy mess with some written in 1939.  Really?  Time for an update, as I'm sure the whole digital revolution wasn't even envisioned in 1939. 

So, Clinton is the biggest name to have been caught in this mess, and we are making a circus out of it for whatever reason.  I'd rather that circus be directed at fixing the problem rather than undermining a particular candidate. 

That is not to say I am neccessarily defending her actions.  Is it shady business?  Absolutely.  But is it ILLEGAL?  No.  Of the ~10 emails that I'm aware of that actually DO approach some very grey areas, they were all sent TO Clinton from another party.  They do not handle "classified" per se, but have info that probably should have been treated as if it were.  Yes, confusing technicality, welcome to national security.  Even so, you can't blame CLINTON for someone else using the wrong account, so even there she has a built in scapegoat, whether by design or by facts.   

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 15, 2015, 03:53:46 PM
Quote
Could Rubio’s crossover message save the GOP?
Yahoo
Andrew Romano  October‎ ‎15‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Lf_.0IBehqyb2JJQgYvX2Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/287db1635037d4f9a5dc97fd3780627b/tumblr_inline_nw899lhRYV1t0395p_1280.jpg)
Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., rallies supporters during a three-day campaign swing through southern Nevada (Photo: AP/John Locher)



LAS VEGAS — Marco Rubio had just finished wooing a group of Christian businessmen at the posh Canyon Gate Country Club, a few miles east of the Strip. The hot afternoon sun was shining on the Italianate columns of the clubhouse. Golf carts glided silently over flawless green fairways. The mountains of Red Rock Canyon rose in the distance. It was a scene fit for a glossy real estate brochure, or perhaps a Republican campaign commercial.

But in the parking lot, a pair of prominent national political reporters — one male, one female — were complaining.

“He never says anything new,” the woman sighed.

“Very scripted,” the man agreed.

“My editors are like, ‘[Sleezebag] attacked Rubio today. How did Rubio respond?’” the woman continued. “And I have to be like, ‘He didn’t. It was just the same old stump speech. Again.’”

My colleagues weren’t wrong about the junior senator from Florida. Over the course of a three-day trip to the Las Vegas metro area, I heard Rubio address the good people of Nevada five times, and each time his remarks were pretty much identical. Sometimes his riff about how “the world is changing faster than ever” would come before the part about America being “the only nation on earth” where you aren’t “stuck” in the same class as your parents; sometimes it would come after. Sometimes Rubio would deliver six policy prescriptions; sometimes he would stop at five. Otherwise, there was little variation — just the candidate, slightly sweaty in his tie and shirt sleeves, smoothly repeating everything he’d said at the previous stop.

For campaign reporters who have experienced Donald [Sleezebag]’s impulsive braggadocio, Jeb Bush’s clumsy Q&As, John Kasich’s entertaining tangents and Ted Cruz’s spotlight-seeking exaggerations, Rubio isn’t particularly exciting to cover. He studiously avoids “making news,” choosing instead to stick to the script.

But here’s the thing about Rubio’s script: it’s very, very good. Good enough, potentially, to win him the nomination.

***

For the first few months of the 2016 presidential campaign, Rubio loitered in the middle of the Republican pack. Now, after a pair of crisp debate performances, with the rest of the GOP’s so-called establishment candidates in decline — Bush has proven to be a bumbling campaigner, Kasich is losing what little steam he had, and Walker basically imploded before ending his bid last month — Rubio is beginning to rise in the polls. According to the latest RealClear Politics average, he’s  now in third place nationally, behind [Sleezebag] and Ben Carson. He was in seventh as recently as August.

Still, Rubio’s momentum won’t matter unless he performs well in next year’s primaries and caucuses. Not every indicator is pointing his way. Last week, the campaign announced that it had raised  a lackluster $6 million in the third quarter of 2016,  down from $9 million the previous quarter. Bush raked in nearly $12 million.

Rubio’s advisers acknowledge that the summer was slow. Yet they also insist that everything is going according to plan. (In Vegas, Rubio made sure to meet with GOP megadonor Sheldon Adelson, who has been trying to decide which candidate to support and is now said to be favoring the Floridian.)

Which brings us back to the script.

The first time I saw Rubio  pitch himself for the presidency was back in April at his campaign kickoff in Miami  . His speech was almost too slick — seductive at first, but ultimately kind of shallow. Like he was auditioning to play the leader of the free world on a new network drama.

Ever since, he’s been road-testing his message in Iowa, New Hampshire and elsewhere. Sharpening it. Refining it. Perfecting it. As a result, the version I heard over and over again Nevada is much stronger than the one I first heard in Florida.

But that’s not just because the script has evolved. It’s also because the moment suddenly seems right for what Rubio has to say.

The early knock on the senator was that he had no natural constituency, and that whatever constituency he did have was going to gravitate toward Bush instead.

But Bush is fizzling. The outsiders — [Sleezebag], Carson and Carly Fiorina — are unlikely to last. And the factional candidates — conservative Cruz, moderate Kasich and libertarian Rand Paul — can’t seem to cross over.

Given the fractured field and the chaos on Capitol Hill, the Republican Party may now need a candidate with the subtlety and skill — the Obama-esque dexterity — to be, if not all things to all people, then at least enough things to enough people: conservatives and moderates, insiders and outsiders, realists and ideologues.

And that, it turns out, is exactly what Rubio is trying to be.

***

Rubio’s first rally in Nevada was at Sun City Summerlin, the largest “active adult” community in the state. Before the senator showed up, I met two active adults named Katie Murrell and Judy Pugmire. They were first in line. Murrell, a whippet-thin and bottle-blonde 74-year-old with a reedy voice and a lot to say, taught for 40 years in Newport Beach, Calif.; Pugmire, 75, the quieter of the two, was still teaching part-time at a local community college. They told me they were neighbors.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/S_B6jBb2myuots_DYijbtw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/88ceedd88f966a2480085ef88d6fe5ea/tumblr_inline_nw8bc1GXCC1t0395p_1280.jpg)
Rubio poses for photos with supporters in Las Vegas. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


I asked why they’d decided to come to the rally. Murrell, naturally, answered first.

“You know, I really like [Sleezebag],” she said. “[Sleezebag]’s in town too.” (He’d recently finished rallying voters on the Strip.) “If you want to cover big things, cover [Sleezebag].”

Pugmire nodded. “I’ll tell you what,” she said. “This country is sick and tired of politicians. That’s why you see [Sleezebag] and Carly and Ben Carson getting all this…”

Merrill cut in. “The Republicans are so screwed up,” she snapped. “[Sleezebag]’s the only one, maybe, who can deal with things.”

“But what about Rubio?” I asked.

Murrell turned to Pugmire, ceding the floor.

“Well, I came because I’m a conservative,” Pugmire said. “I want to listen to him.”

A few minutes later, Rubio and his entourage arrived. Dozens of top donors filled the VIP seats to the right of the stage. After the rally, they’d be picnicking and playing touch football with Rubio himself; the following day would be spent attending various football-themed events — “Quarterbacking Victory”; “Talking the Playbook” — at the swanky Bellagio hotel and casino.

In person, Rubio looks and acts a little like Matt Damon. The same stocky ex-athlete’s build. The same earnest all-American baritone. The same quick wit followed by the same self-effacing smile, as if he’s trying to charm you and apologizing for trying to charm you at the same time.

The senator started his speech the same way he would start every speech in Nevada: by mentioning that he’d spent part of his childhood in Las Vegas.

“Believe it or not, we still have more family in southern Nevada than in South Florida,” he told the crowd. “So if I only win by 68 votes here, you’ll know why.”

Rubio’s parents moved from Miami in 1979 and stayed until Rubio, now 44, was in the eighth grade. His dad tended bar at an off-Strip casino called Sam’s Club; his mother worked at the Imperial Palace. And yet in Summerlin he explained that “growing up,” he “remember(s) never feeling limited” to following in his parents’ modest footsteps. Why? Because they taught him he was “blessed to be a citizen of the one place on earth where the son of a bartender and a maid could be anything he wanted to be.”

“If we ever lose that,” Rubio said, “we stop being special.”

In typical Republican fashion, the senator went on to warn that America was, in fact, “on the verge” of losing its special status.

But then Rubio pivoted; he stopped sounding like a typical Republican and started sounding like someone who might actually win the White House. The problem, he admitted, isn’t President Obama. It isn’t even the Democrats. It’s ways in which the world is changing, and the speed at which it’s changing too. In the age of Amazon, Uber and Candy Crush, America has “a retirement system designed in the 1930s,” a “higher education system designed in the 1950s” and “tax policies designed in the 1980s and 1990s.”

“I wish I could tell you it’s one party, but it’s not,” Rubio told the crowd. “Both parties are out of touch. Both parties are out of date. And if we keep electing the same kind of people — the people who are ‘next in line,’ the people they tell us we have to vote for — nothing is going to change.”

At this point, [Sleezebag] would have started insulting his rivals. But Rubio’s script is noticeably short on negativity. Instead, he spent the rest of his remarks delivering what he called “the good news”: his belief that if voters approach 2016 “not as a choice between Republicans and Democrats” but rather as a “generational choice” — if they reject the Jeb Bushes and Hillary Clintons of the world in favor of the future, as represented, of course, by Marco Rubio — then “our children and grandchildren will be the freest and most prosperous Americans who have ever lived.”

When I say “Obama-esque dexterity,” this is what I mean. For the next 20 minutes, Rubio talked policy: defense spending, Iran, taxes, regulations, the deficit, entitlement reform, energy, health care, education. His views were predictably conservative, but again and again, he expressed them in the language of empathy rather than ideology.

The Atlantic’s Peter Beinart describes this maneuver well. “Rubio has mastered the same technique Barack Obama used so effectively when he was seeking the presidency,” Beinart recently wrote. “When faced with a controversial issue, he doffs his cap to the other side, pleads for civility and respect, insists that it’s a hard call — and then comes out exactly where you’d expect him to come out. … What [Obama and Rubio] share is their moderate-sounding rhetorical style.”

And so, when Rubio spoke about regulations, he insisted that the reason he wants to get them “under control” is because big businesses use regulations to “keep small businesses from competing.”

“The guys who have made it, who are rich and powerful, they’re going to be all right,” Rubio explained. “The people we have to be fighting for are the people who are trying to make it.”

When the senator spoke about energy, he praised domestic fossil fuels because they make “cooking food and heating a home cheaper” — especially for “a struggling family with a single mother who’s trying to get by on $10 an hour.”

When he spoke about health insurance, he confessed that it’s “a legitimate issue” that “we have to address.” Then he suggested that we scrap Obamacare and make health insurance more like auto insurance instead (which sounds sensible enough, even if it isn’t).

And when he spoke about higher education reform, he focused on expanding vocational education for teenagers who would rather be “welders, pipe fitters, or plumbers” than “philosophers,” while reducing the burden of student loans for their more collegiate peers.

“I tell you all this not just to show you how difficult these problems are,” Rubio said, “but to show you how we can fix them. There is no challenge we cannot solve.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/gaddtuMP3AFRDdD8.4FDmQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/eb13a850e85fcb4cb0da1455df354b6d/tumblr_inline_nw8avoIEJ41t0395p_1280.jpg)
Rubio works the crowd after a rally at a Las Vegas retirement community. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


It was a message that encompassed many contradictions: conservative policy proposals, working-class rhetoric; insider savvy, outsider spirit. As a U.S. senator from one of the largest states in the nation, Rubio is technically as establishment as they come. But he made sure to remind the crowd in Summerlin that when he ran for the Senate in 2010 against sitting Gov. Charlie Crist, “the entire, and I mean the entire Republican establishment in Washington, D.C., was against me.”

“And by the way,” he added, “it’s very similar now.” In 2010, Rubio campaigned as a full-throated Tea Party candidate, and even though he’s recently been spending more time with the Council on Foreign Relations than the Florida Panhandle Patriots, he is still quick to portray himself as an outsider.

“'It’s not your turn; you gotta wait in line,’” Rubio said, paraphrasing his establishment critics. “Wait for what?”


After Rubio had wrapped up his peroration — after he celebrated his parents for working multiple jobs so he could have a better life; after he insisted that what “unifies us as one people” is that “we’re all but a generation removed from someone who did that for us” — I made my way to the rope line, where Katie Murrell and Judy Pugmire were waiting to snap a photo with the senator.

“I didn’t know he had family here!” Murrell said as soon as she saw me. “That he’d grown up here!”

“I didn’t know that either!” Pugmire added.

“So how did Rubio compare to [Sleezebag]?” I asked.

Pugmire’s reply would have been music to the senator’s ears, assuming he could have heard it over the Kid Rock song blasting through the speakers.

“Oh, for me, I would rather have Rubio,” she said. “There’s no question.”

Pugmire glanced back at the empty stage. “In many ways,” she added, “he reminds me of Ronald Reagan.”

***

If Rubio is going to connect in any of the early primary or caucus states, at least at first, Nevada is probably the place.

As the Summerlin event was winding down, I ran into Mike Slanker, a tall Ohioan in a checked sport coat and jeans. The top political strategist for both the governor of Nevada, Brian Sandoval, and the state’s junior senator, Dean Heller, Slanker signed on in May to run Rubio’s local operation. He told me Nevada could be a bellwether for his boss — a good lens through which to glimpse Rubio’s broader appeal.

Slanker’s basic point was that a Republican needs to click with two kinds of voters to win the White House: a) voters who will pretty much vote for any GOP candidate and b) voters who will only vote for the right GOP candidate. Not only does Nevada boast a more representative mix of both kinds of voters than say, conservative Iowa, moderate New Hampshire, or Tea Party-centric South Carolina; Rubio is already showing that he can appeal to both of them.

Experts in Nevada say that only four campaigns are really competing at this point: Rubio, Bush, Cruz and Rand Paul. Many think that Rubio has the early edge.

At Canyon Gate, I happened to overhear a conversation between one of Rubio’s advisers and legendary Nevada reporter Jon Ralston.

“How do you think we’re doing?” the adviser asked.

“You’ve got the best organization, as far as I can see,” Ralston replied.

“That’s good to hear,” the adviser said. “We think we’ll do well in the first three states … but we could really do well here.”

Nevada first held caucuses in 2008, and in 2012, only 38,000 Republicans participated. A well-informed source predicted that it could take a mere 10,000 votes to win this cycle’s contest. And so, from an organizational standpoint, the Rubio campaign is making sure to focus its fire on Nevada’s most reliable Republican voters.

“You have to remember who’s going to show up to caucus,” Slanker told me. “And who is that in this state? It’s Mormons and seniors.”

This explains why the campaign was targeting Summerlin’s active adults. It explains why Lt. Gov. Mark Hutchison — a “big player in the Mormon community,” according to Slanker, and the chairman of Rubio’s Nevada campaign — would go on to introduce the senator at every rally. (As a kid in Las Vegas, Rubio himself was briefly a member of the Mormon Church.) It explains why Rubio would visit Boulder City, a Mormon enclave, the following day. And it explains why Rubio would be introduced there by former Clark County Commissioner Bruce Woodbury, a man Slanker described as “the godfather of the Mormon Church in this state.” Some Rubio donors are even claiming the candidate will be “the first Mormon president” if he wins next year,  according to a recent BuzzFeed report  .

At the same time, Rubio is also looking ahead and trying to avoid turning off the crossover voters who will prove critical in the general election — unlike most of his rivals.

“Nevada is a melting pot,” Slanker told me. “We have the fastest-growing Asian population in America. We have an exploding Hispanic population. Heck, we have an exploding population in general. And I think the folks who’ve been unwilling to come to the GOP, or just disinterested in politics in general, are kind of tired of a lot of the personalities in this party. In my mind, Marco is our best chance of reaching out and touching those people.”

If Slanker’s analysis sounds like spin, that’s because it is. But spin isn’t necessarily untrue. Kasich and Bush command little support among conservatives or anti-establishmentarians; [Sleezebag], Cruz, Carson and Fiorina are anathema to most of the rest of the electorate. But Rubio hasn’t alienated anyone, at least not yet.

Two days after Summerlin, Rubio attended a forum hosted by the LIBRE Initiative, a conservative Latino group, at St. Christopher Catholic School in North Las Vegas. (Rubio had briefly been a student there.) When asked about immigration reform, the senator again explained why he no longer supports  the sort of comprehensive approach he once tried to shepherd through Congress. (“Part of being a good leader is figuring out what’s possible,” Rubio said. “And we don’t have the votes.”) But he also admitted that he still believes in a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants somewhere down the line.

“After 10 years with a work permit, I personally support—and some people don’t agree with me—allowing people to apply to for a green card,” Rubio explained. “And obviously, after three or five years, you’d be eligible to apply for citizenship.”

The mostly Latino crowd applauded. “We’re talking about real people here,” Rubio said. “They’re human beings with lives and families.”

On the ground in Nevada, Rubio’s all-things-to-all-people approach — his knack for being conservative while sounding moderate — seems to be working. For me, the clearest proof came in a pair of chance encounters I had at two separate Rubio events.

The first was in Summerlin. I initially assumed that retiree Nancy Garrity was a GOP loyalist, because who else attends Republican rallies?

“Yeah!” she almost shouted when I asked if she was supporting Rubio. “He’s smart. When they ask him a question, he answers it. He doesn’t just insult somebody else.”

But then I asked Garrity if Rubio might be too young for the presidency — and her answer surprised me.

“Kennedy was young too,” she said.

“But Kennedy was a Democrat.”

“Yep,” she nodded. “And so was Barack Obama.”

I must have looked confused.

“I really have to tell you this,” Garrity said. “I’m a registered Democrat. But if Rubio becomes the nominee, I will definitely vote for him. I really will.”

“What about the rest of the Republicans?” I asked.

“Oh no,” she said. “I’d rather vote for Hillary.”


I happened upon very different kind of voter the following day at the Havana Grill, a Cuban restaurant miles from the Vegas Strip. Rubio was scheduled to show up in few minutes for a happy hour speech; in the meantime, I struggled to find a place to stand amid the throng of supporters. Suddenly, I overheard a guy with a goatee and an American-flag T-shirt telling another guy about his recent confrontation with a group of Hispanics.

“We didn’t back down,” said the guy with the goatee. “When they start filling my ears with their bullcrap they’re going to get it back. They said, ‘You’re a racist,’ and I’m like, ‘So what? You don’t like different races? Blame God for it, man.’”

“I think the real racists are Democrats,” said the other guy. “They don’t think black people are smart enough to take care of themselves.”

“They’re not!” said the guy with the goatee. “They have to have all this special stuff. They can run fast, though. They’re making money doing that. I can watch them bash their heads playing football on Sunday. It don’t matter if they become rich basketball players — they’ll still be thugs and try to kill somebody. It don’t matter.”

The guy with the goatee paused for a moment.

“I like Marco,” he finally said. “He’s getting a lot of the establishment support. I’m starting to think he should be the nominee instead of Jeb.”

I couldn’t help but laugh. Any Republican skilled enough to secure the support of an avowed Democrat like Nancy Garrity without alienating an unabashed racist like the guy with the goatee — and vice versa — probably has a bright future ahead of him.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/gIdJeHZC7EKXSiXEAY_ufQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/9e77ce18fecc9578c9dc947613e41b71/tumblr_inline_nw8asn9iL91t0395p_1280.jpg)
Rubio at the Havana Grill restaurant in Las Vegas. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


Fifteen minutes later, Rubio walked on stage. He spotted a waitress carrying a tray of cocktails through the crowd.

“They’re handing out mojitos in the middle of my speech,” Rubio said, smiling. “I love it. I promise that has never happened before.”

A fan in the front of the room offered him one.

“No, no, no,” he said, waving off the beverage. “I drink water.” But the crowd insisted, and Rubio finally allowed himself a Cuban coffee.

“You guys are messing up my stump speech,” the candidate said with a smile. For a few seconds, at least, Rubio had departed from his script.

He took a sip from the tacitas.

“OK,” he said. “I’m ready now.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/could-rubios-crossover-message-save-the-gop-113846600.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/could-rubios-crossover-message-save-the-gop-113846600.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 15, 2015, 05:45:56 PM
Quote
He studiously avoids “making news,” choosing instead to stick to the script.  But here’s the thing about Rubio’s script: it’s very, very good.

There's actually a lot to admire about being able to stick to the script.  Especially when I don't know that most the other even HAVE one. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 15, 2015, 09:00:50 PM
Great article, Buncle.

You'll never hear Jeb say that big business uses regulations as a tool against small business, or that the problem is both parties.

I always liked the guy. My concern is his Middle Eastern policy. Of course, to be fair, I fear that most of the GOP candidates would have us at war with both ISIL and Iran at the same time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 15, 2015, 09:14:51 PM
I... think Rubio hasn't paid enough dues yet -whatever he says about that, experience matters- but is probably one of the better men running on the right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 16, 2015, 02:26:59 AM
-carson-threaten-to-boycott-next-gop-debate/ar-AAfuhRp?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=ieslice]http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/[Sleezebag]-carson-threaten-to-boycott-next-gop-debate/ar-AAfuhRp?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=ieslice (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/[Sleezebag)


[Sleezebag], Carson threaten to boycott next GOP debate
Ben Kamisar and Bradford Richardson








"Donald [Sleezebag] and Ben Carson are threatening to skip the next Republican presidential debate unless the format is changed.

The campaigns sent a joint letter Thursday afternoon to CNBC's Washington bureau warning they won’t won't participate in the network’s debate on Oct. 28 in Boulder, Colo., unless it lasts no longer than two hours and includes both opening and closing statements by the candidates."

"

"It's the fairest way to ensure that any candidate has an opportunity to be heard both early and late in the debate and not to rely on the good graces of the moderators," he said.

[Sleezebag], meanwhile, was unhappy with the three-hour length of the CNN debate and wants to ensure that the next contest isn't allowed to drag on."

The uproar started, according to one GOP campaign source familiar with the calls, when CNBC told the campaign representatives that there wouldn't be any opening or closing statements for the contest.

"People realized we got the short end of the stick when the Democrats had a 2 minute opening and a 90 second closing [during their debate], so they had three and a half minutes to a 15 million person audience of an infomercial," the source said.

"They get a commercial, we get ‘The Hunger Games.’ "



 The networks prefer to use the time for debate rather than infomercial. Or maybe the journalists prefer to have the facetime themselves. The frontrunner wants a 120 minute limit. Without his presence, there likely won't be the record tv ratings that allow CNN to charge $150K for a thirty second ad.

While I would find a debate without the presence of the two frontrunners interesting in that it would probably be more issue oriented, and might help us thin the herd, I predict money will talk here, and there will be a two hour debate complete with front runners, opening and closing statements and commercials.

What remains to be seen is if they stick to a 10 candidate limit. That's a lot for debate with 35 minutes of built in statement time. I don't know if they are still doing a 2-tier debate or not. They could split them numerically into something more manageable. Or they could draw an arbitrary line such as 5%. That's the one the fed used to use for matching public funds in a general election.

Oh well. We'll see.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 16, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
Quote
[Sleezebag], Carson threaten to boycott next GOP debate
Ben Kamisar and Bradford Richardson

In that case they'll just have their own probably. Say what you want at least the usual political theatre
is more interesting this year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 16, 2015, 05:43:08 PM
Quote
Bernie Sanders keeps promise made in private to Sandra Bland’s mother
Yahoo
Michael Walsh  October‎ ‎16‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/mYVtJ4okyxwto93sYMYKJg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/2bfefdb03711da7cd3fcabb1742946e8/tumblr_inline_nwbijqsLI21td5k0c_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders speaks at a rally in Los Angeles on Oct. 14. (Photo: Lucy Nicholson/Reuters)



In an era when every moment is tweeted and politicized, Bernie Sanders elected not to capitalize on a meaningful meeting with the mother of Sandra Bland.

The chance encounter reportedly took place at East Street Café, a Thai restaurant at Union Station in Washington, D.C., five days before the first Democratic presidential debate.

The Rev. Hannah Adair Bonner, a pastor at St. John’s Church in downtown Houston, wrote in her blog about noticing the Vermont senator at another table while she was eating dinner with Geneva Reed-Veal, whose daughter became a face of the Black Lives Matter campaign following her death in police custody in July.

The pastor said she approached Sanders and asked if he would like to meet Reed-Veal and that their group asked the politician if he would take a picture with them.

“He did not impose upon Ms. Geneva to ask for a picture of his own. He did not use the moment as an opportunity to promote his campaign,” she wrote. “He took no record; he made no statement. He did not try to turn it into a publicity stunt.”

Bonner, who is a Black Lives Matter activist, said she was impressed by everyone’s sincerity during the serendipitous moment.

The Democratic presidential candidate told Reed-Veal that the death of her daughter was inexcusable and promised he would continue to “say her name.” At the debate on Oct. 13 in Las Vegas, Sanders stayed true to his word when answering a question submitted by a law student through Facebook: “Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter?”

“Black lives matter,” Sanders said. “The reason those words matter is the African-American community knows that on any given day, some innocent person like Sandra Bland can get into a car and then three days later she’s going to end up dead in jail.”

After this response, Google searches for “Sandra Bland” surged.

Later, Bonner shared photos of their meeting with Sanders on Twitter, still impressed that he did not try to capitalize on, or even mention, the moment.

“He simply made space for a sacred moment and then let it pass without trying to gain anything from it,” Bonner said. “For that, I respect him. For that, I am grateful. That choice may not have made him a very good politician, but it made him a better man.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-keeps-promise-made-in-private-to-145437157.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-keeps-promise-made-in-private-to-145437157.html)



Note the use of an unappealing pic of Senator Sanders with the article, instead of the obvious one:

(https://thatshowthelightgetsin.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/img_0761.jpg?w=300&h=200)

...This happens constantly in what little coverage I find of him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 17, 2015, 12:57:51 AM
Quote
Six cash-strapped Republican White House hopefuls face tipping point
Reuters
By Michelle Conlin and Grant Smith  49 minutes ago


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U.S. Republican presidential candidate and Senator Rand Paul speaks during the Heritage Action for America presidential candidate forum in Greenville, South Carolina on September 18, 2015. REUTERS/Chris Keane



NEW YORK (Reuters) - Half a dozen Republican presidential candidates are edging toward financial crisis, raising the specter that some may be forced to drop out of the sprawling field of contenders.

They all spent more than they took in during the third quarter, according to campaign finance reports filed on Thursday. The six are: Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, former New York Governor George Pataki, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham and former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum.

Together, they raised $6 million but spent more than $9.5 million during the summer on everything from postage to travel to campaign rallies. All six are trailing badly in the polls.

"They are living on the edge," said Lawrence Noble, former general counsel to the Federal Election Commission."We are getting close to the time when a lot of these candidates are going to say, 'We can't do it, it can't be done,'" said Noble, now a senior attorney with the Campaign Legal Center, a campaign finance non-profit.

Campaigns have tipping points: the moment when a candidate does the math and realizes that he does not have enough money on hand or the prospect of more money from donors to stay in the race. One telling sign is the "burn rate" - jargon for how much a candidate spends versus how much he is raising. If the burn rate is high and donor enthusiasm low, then trouble ensues.

The math is simple, said Austin Barbour, who ran Rick Perry’s fund-raising Super PAC before the former Texas governor dropped out. Barbour is now a senior adviser to the campaign of former Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

When direct donations to campaigns are lackluster, as in the case of these six candidates, there may not be enough money to cover basic operating costs like travel, staff salaries and office equipment. Those costs are not typically covered by big money Super PACs, which are supposed to operate independently of the campaigns.

“It’s really tough to survive with such little money,” Barbour said. “It puts a lot of pressure on a campaign because no one wants to put their candidate in debt.”


DANGER ZONE

The third quarter reports show the challenges. Any burn rate over 100 percent is considered dangerous by campaign finance experts. Pataki’s was 226 percent, Graham 188, Paul 181, Jindal 144, Huckabee 110 and Santorum 101.


(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/JKHPUF5S2lu_z.v8UgbJBg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-10-16T225408Z_1_LYNXNPEB9F13S_RTROPTP_2_USA-ELECTION-JINDAL.JPG)
U.S. Republican presidential candidate and Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal speaks during the Heritage Action for America presidential candidate forum in Greenville, South Carolina on September 18, 2015. REUTERS/Chris Keane


Of those, Paul and Graham have the most money in the bank, with $2.1 million and $1.7 million respectively, while the rest are money-challenged. Pataki, for instance, had less than $14,000 on hand as of Sept. 30, less than the $17,600 billionaire candidate Donald [Sleezebag] spent on yard signs in the third quarter alone.

The campaigns dismissed the suggestion they were in financial trouble.

Rand Paul's campaign stressed it still had the $2.1 million on hand. A Pataki staffer said his burn rate was just the “cost of a campaign for President.” And the Huckabee campaign said their candidate was experienced at running campaigns on shoestring budgets.

Spokesmen for Santorum, Graham and Jindal did not respond to requests for comment.

To be sure, tight budgets at this point in the race do not mean the campaigns are doomed. A candidate could have a breakout moment, like former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, whose fundraising soared after a good debate performance. Candidates can also lend themselves money, as Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton did when she ran low during the 2008 White House race.


(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/etTQxKlwqHnmLcNwZ_5CoA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-10-16T225408Z_1_LYNXNPEB9F13T_RTROPTP_2_USA-ELECTION.JPG)
U.S. Republican presidential candidate George Pataki listens as he is introduced at the No Labels Problem Solver Convention in Manchester, New Hampshire October 12, 2015. REUTERS/Brian Snyder


But the Republican candidates are bedeviled by another math problem. There are 14 Republicans vying for their party's nomination for the November 2016 election, more than double the number at this point during the 2012 election.

“The Republican field is way too large, there simply isn’t enough money to go around,” said Noble.

Small donors are the lifeblood of any campaign and candidates will live or die by their ability to tap into a broad base of supporters willing to contribute up to the maximum of $2,700.

Retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, who is one of the front-runners in the Republican race, reported nearly 22,000 donors in the last quarter who have given more than $200 so far in the campaign. Bush had 7,300.


(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/FCcj4ctSotRAmj8d56OP5A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTQ1MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2015-10-16T225408Z_1_LYNXNPEB9F13U_RTROPTP_2_USA-ELECTION.JPG)
U.S. Republican presidential candidate and U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham takes the stage to speak at the No Labels Problem Solver Convention in Manchester, New Hampshire October 12, 2015. REUTERS/Brian Snyder


In contrast, Pataki had fewer than 80 donors last quarter; Jindal had under 300; Graham had nearly 650; Santorum under 300, and Huckabee more than 800. Among these five, Paul had the most, with more than 3,500.

The candidates could conceivably win the patronage of a millionaire or billionaire, who could funnel unlimited amounts of money into their Super PAC. But these fund-raising groups are prohibited from carrying out certain campaign activities and are therefore of limited help.

For example, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had a Super PAC with money in the bank, but after burning through $6 million in three months his campaign's coffers were bare and he was forced to drop out in September.

Perry, who quit the same month, hemorrhaged money and ended the third quarter with just $45,000 on hand. His Super PAC returned $13 million to its donors.

(Reporting By Michelle Conlin, editing by Paul Thomasch and Ross Colvin)
http://news.yahoo.com/six-cash-strapped-republican-white-house-hopefuls-face-225408376.html (http://news.yahoo.com/six-cash-strapped-republican-white-house-hopefuls-face-225408376.html)



By way of perspective, I understand Walker had an even million left when he gave up.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 17, 2015, 03:17:33 AM
I've read elsewhere that Rand has $2.1 million. So he's not in trouble yet. He has a lean organization. He does have money coming in. He has been asked to withdrawal and concentrate on keeping his senate seat.

Kasich( who seems to be putting everything into New Hampshire ) and Christie ( who seems to be waiting it out ) aren't doing as well in the polls overall. Maybe they should be spending more so as to improve and make the cut for the next debate. Kasich is going to be a consideration for VP. Whoever wins Ohio wins the election, and he knows how to do that.

True, the field is way overcrowded.

Frankly, I kind of hope that Santorum and Huckabee stay in the race, keeping TheoCon money out of Cruz's pocket.

The others- Pataki, Jindal, and Graham should either bow out now, or "suspend" their campaign until they reach their home states and try to snag a couple of delegates there, and maybe bargain for something with them.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 17, 2015, 09:07:55 PM
Real Time with Bill Maher: Interview with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) - October 16, 2015 (HBO) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDRxbQlpqmo&feature=player_embedded#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2015, 09:40:06 PM
Quote
Jim Webb drops out of Democratic primary race
Yahoo
Michael Walsh  October‎ ‎20‎, ‎2015


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Jim Webb speaks during the first official Democratic debate of the 2016 presidential campaign in Las Vegas on Oct. 13. (Photo: Lucy Nicholson/Reuters)



Former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb dropped out of the Democratic presidential primary race Tuesday afternoon.

Webb, a Vietnam veteran and former Navy secretary, withdrew any consideration of being the party’s nominee during a news conference at 1 p.m. ET in Washington, D.C., but said he has not ruled out an independent run.

“It was very difficult to fundraise inside the Democratic Party structure right now,” he said to reporters. “I have no doubt that if I ran as an independent we would have significant financial help from people who want me to run as something other than a Democrat.”

Fox News, which broke the story of Webb’s decision to withdraw his candidacy earlier in the day, reported that he has become disillusioned by how campaign financing has, in his view, pushed both major political parties to extreme positions.

During the Tuesday press conference, he said that the very nature of American democracy is under siege by how the current power structure finances both political parties.

“Our political candidates are being pulled to the extremes. They are increasingly out of step with the people they are supposed to serve,” he said.

Webb, 69, said that polls show a great number of Americans consider themselves independents rather than Republicans nor Democrats.

“I’ve said for years that the Democratic Party needs to get back to its more traditional message. I’m not seeing that in a way that I wish that I could see it,” he said.

Webb said he will keep talking to people who have been encouraging him to launch an independent campaign.

“We’ll just have to see what happens next,” he said.

During the Democratic primary debate on Oct. 13 in Las Vegas, he stood out as noticeably more moderate than his main competition for the party’s nod, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Citing an op-ed in which Webb called affirmative action “state-sponsored racism,” CNN anchor and debate moderator Anderson Cooper asked Webb if he is out of step with where the Democratic Party is now.

His debate performance did not make a considerable impact on his poll numbers, and many liberal viewers ended the night feeling that he came across as simply too conservative to win the primary. He acknowledged this state of affairs Tuesday.

“I fully accept that my views on many issues are not compatible with the power structure and the nominating base of the Democratic Party,” he said.

Webb’s campaign had already revealed that he was considering an independent run on Monday. He said that this turn of events does not diminish his concerns for the challenges facing the U.S. or his belief that he would provide the best leadership.

In early July, when Webb announced his candidacy, he argued that fair debate is often drowned out by the huge sums of money funneled to candidates — both directly and indirectly.

“We need to shake the hold of these shadow elites on our political process,” he said at the time. “Our elected officials need to get back to the basics of good governance and to remember that their principal obligations are to protect our national interests abroad and to ensure a level playing field here at home, especially for those who otherwise have no voice in the corridors of power.”

This electoral ailment, to which Webb apparently hoped to be the antidote, appears to have been the death knell of his campaign.

He has had trouble raising enough money to pose a legitimate threat to either Clinton or Sanders. A recent filing, reported by Politico, revealed that Webb had raised only $696,972.18 and had $316,765.34 cash on hand. Contrast that with the $29,921,653.91 raised by Clinton or the $26,216,430.38 raised by Sanders.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/jim-webb-plans-to-drop-out-of-democratic-primary-153500314.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/jim-webb-plans-to-drop-out-of-democratic-primary-153500314.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2015, 05:41:33 PM
Quote
Biden: I’m not running for president in 2016
Yahoo
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  ‎October‎ ‎21‎, ‎2015


Ending months of will-he, won’t-he speculation, Vice President Joe Biden announced Wednesday that he will not be running for president in 2016.

Biden said he had always known that the process of grieving for his late son Beau might close “the window on mounting a realistic campaign for president.”

“I’ve concluded it has closed,” Biden declared in the Rose Garden of the White House, with his wife Dr Jill Biden and President Barack Obama standing at his side.

The vice president’s hastily announced remarks capped months of speculation about whether he could build the kind of fundraising and get-out-the-vote structure required of successful modern campaigns.

The announcement came one day before the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination, former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, testified before the Republican-run House of Representatives Committee looking into the deadly Benghazi attacks of 2012.

Biden, who has spent his entire adult life in politics and made two failed runs for the presidency, pledged to keep defending Obama’s legacy and fighting for the middle class and warned Democratic candidates against running away from the the president.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/biden-im-not-running-for-president-in-2016-162514730.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/biden-im-not-running-for-president-in-2016-162514730.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2015, 05:57:50 PM
...Now, I concluded weeks ago that the mass media group mind has A.) a pretty bad case of ABH, and B.) is pretty unanimously on a spectrum between thinking Senator Sanders is bad for business and/or unelectable.  Between the subtly-but-consistently hostile coverage of Sanders and all-but-openly-begging Biden to run, it seems to add up.  I wonder how this development forcing them to choose between two candidates they don't want will inform future coverage.

With the hopeless clown college on the right, this is shaping up to be a battle of the midgets, no matter who wins the respective nominations.  That was already a tiresome situation two presidential cycles ago...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 21, 2015, 08:48:24 PM
I still think Rubio would make a great general election candidate, and that Kasich would make a good president. Of course, without the herd thinning this year, I don't see Rubio getting that opportunity.

I could see Kasich getting the nod as a VP, to deliver Ohio and the electoral college, and to lend credibility to an outsider candidate. But that's the only way I can see Kasich eventually getting into the White House. He's not very exciting as a speaker and candidate.


I'm glad that Biden has finally reached a decision. I can't really blame him. The death of anyone so close has a way of making everything else seem pointless. Even my anti-Hillary passion, if I were in his shoes.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2015, 09:03:22 PM
Oh, Rubio seems to be one to watch, but I think this time isn't his shot.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2015, 09:07:35 PM
Quote
What’s behind Bernie Sanders’ enormous rallies
Andrew Romano  West Coast Correspondent  August‎ ‎12‎, ‎2015


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Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders speaks to a sold-out crowd during a campaign event in Los Angeles on Monday. (Photo: Marcus Yam/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)



LOS ANGELES — On Monday evening I took an Uber from my house in northeast L.A. to the Memorial Sports Arena just south of downtown. Correction: I took the Uber to exit 20A on the 110 South — the off-ramp closest to the Memorial Sports Arena. There were so many cars heading to the venue that the entire right half of the freeway had become a parking lot. It was almost 7 p.m. — start time. I told my driver, Petros, that I was going to have to get out and walk.

Petros looked puzzled.

“Is something going on tonight?” he asked.

“Yes,” I said. “Bernie Sanders is having a rally.”

Petros still looked puzzled. I set off down the side of the freeway.

I’d come to see Sanders speak out of a sense of professional duty, at least in part. Presidential candidates usually descend on deep blue California for one reason and one reason only: money. They fly in, flutter around  a $40,000-per-head celebrity fundraiser at George Clooney’s house and fly out. Actual rallies with actual voters here are rare. As a Los Angeles-based political reporter, I would have been remiss if I had skipped the first big one in years.

But I’ll admit that I was personally curious as well. At first, many in the press had dismissed Sanders, the 73-year-old Vermont senator and self-described democratic socialist who announced his presidential ambitions in April, as a cranky, irrelevant gadfly. And yet now, three months later, Sanders was  polling at 36 percent in New Hampshire — a mere six points behind Hillary Clinton, the all-but-anointed Democratic nominee. In Iowa he was  already claiming a quarter of the vote. And for weeks he’d been touring cities and college towns around the country, attracting audiences several times larger than anything Clinton or her would-be Republican rivals could hope for — even though people like Petros had never heard of him.

What’s going on? What is a huge Bernie Sanders rally actually like in person? And why are so many progressives suddenly so riled up about a career legislator whose hunched shoulders, messy white hair and gruff Brooklyn yawp they’ve spent the last few decades ignoring on C-SPAN?

After trudging through the trash on the shoulder of the 110 and circumnavigating an endless, gated parking lot, I finally arrived at the arena. My initial impression was that I’d been here before. I attended my first political rally when I was a freshman in college — a concert for Ralph Nader at Madison Square Garden. (A cute girl with an extra ticket invited me at the last minute.) I remember a man who was vowing to fast until Nader, then a Green Party candidate, was allowed to debate George W. Bush and Al Gore. I remember stoned undergrads in “Bush and Gore Make Me Wanna Ralph” T-shirts. I remember dyed green hair. I remember multiple piercings. And I remember a lot of older people — baby boomers who might have once been accused of smelling like patchouli but who now looked just like the conservative churchgoers you’d meet at Republican events.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/qzxLy6Eg8.O_CsdCSYmP3w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzQxO2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/84c8955d604a28aeca450ed265455ff03b41c1cb.jpg)
Presidential candidate Ralph Nader speaks at a Green Party rally at Madison Square Garden in New York in October 2000. (Photo: Evan Agostini/ImageDirect via Getty Images)


The line in L.A. was thousands and thousands of people long — it snaked around the block — and stylistically, it seemed pretty similar. The couple who pulled up in a yellow Corolla with a collage of bumper stickers on the back (“Vote Dammit,” “Equality on My Mind,” “Minecraft,” “Cthulhu”) and “Honk 4 Bernie” and “#TakeBackAmerica” written in red marker on their windows. The skinny, middle-aged African-American man in a black Occupy Wall Street T-shirt and a large black hat. The flip-flops. The backward baseball caps. The beards. The crowd was full of college kids from nearby USC; young, progressive professionals; and liberal retirees in loose-fitting Ralph Lauren. Mostly white, but still fairly diverse. Near the entrance there was the usual rally-going array of activists (“Ferguson is everywhere”) and opportunists (“Feel the Bern” buttons for ONLY $5). As I entered the arena, “Turn! Turn! Turn!” by the Byrds was playing on the PA.

Even Sanders’ speech sounded a lot like Nader’s. Back in 2000, Nader also slammed big business for what he called “a corporate crime wave,” accusing both the Democratic and Republican parties of being controlled by corporations. “Our country has been sold to the highest bidder,” Nader said. “We’re going backwards, while the rich are becoming superrich.” He touted his plans for paid parental leave and paid sick leave. He criticized America for failing to join the rest of the developed world in enacting universal health care. And he railed against the criminal justice system, arguing, “The major public housing project in this country is building prison cells.” Afterward, voter Thomas King, then 22, contrasted Nader with that year’s Democratic Senate nominee from New York. “I’m not too pleased with the fact that [Hillary] Clinton and the New Democrats have moved so close to the center,” King told the New York Times. “This is a populist movement.”

Hearing Sanders speak on Monday about an economy that is “rigged … to benefit the people on top,” about how he “can’t be bought” by corporations, about how it “makes a lot more sense to be investing in education than incarceration,” about how it’s an “international embarrassment” that the U.S. doesn’t have “Medicare for all,” and about how his “family values,” unlike the GOP’s, encompass paid leave for parents, I couldn’t help but feel a little déjà vu — even if the crowd roared after every line like they’d never encountered another candidate willing to say these kinds of things.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/07d718N5Cfr2r3cPTvjSYg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/55da3db697233722d7d54848c96546182ce506f4.jpg)
Sanders supporters cheer at his campaign rally at the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena on Monday. (Photo: Charles Ommanney/The Washington Post via Getty Images)


Sanders has real appeal for progressives craving an alternative to Clinton: the dogged consistency, the ambitious policy prescriptions, the rumpled authenticity. All of that came across more clearly on the stump than it ever does on TV.

But Nader was rumpled and authentic, too.That’s why I was more interested Monday in the two big differences on display in Los Angeles between Sanders and his anti-corporate predecessor — not to mention every other major outsider candidate who’s come before, whether conservative (like Ross Perot), libertarian (like Ron Paul) or liberal (like Robert La Follette).

The first difference was the sheer size of the event. As soon as Sanders waddled onstage in Los Angeles, he announced that “more than 27,000” people were in attendance. Such claims are impossible to verify, but the 16,000-seat arena was nearly full, and thousands more were watching in overflow areas outside the venue. The rally looked (and sounded) massive — more like a deafening, ecstatic, slightly drunken rock concert than a fringe political gathering. And the L.A. event wasn’t an isolated incident. Roughly 28,000 people showed up for Sanders’ rally in Portland, Ore., on Sunday. He drew 15,000 in Seattle; 11,000 in Phoenix; 10,000 in Madison, Wis.; 8,000 in Dallas; and 4,500 in New Orleans. All told, Sanders has  attracted more than 100,000 people to his campaign events in recent weeks.

That’s completely unprecedented this early in a presidential primary cycle. (The election is still 15 months away.) For comparison’s sake, Clinton’s biggest crowd so far this year was 5,500. There were 15,000 people at the Nader concert I saw in 2000 — but that was three weeks before Election Day. Paul’s storied 2008 and 2012  crowds topped out around 10,000. Sanders is even surpassing Barack Obama’s revolutionary 2008 campaign. In February 2007, Obama drew 20,000 people to Town Lake in Austin, Texas; in April, he attracted 20,000 to an outdoor rally at Yellow Jacket Park in Atlanta; and in September, 24,000  came to see him speak in New York’s Washington Square Park. But Obama rallies didn’t pass the 28,000 mark until 2008.

The second difference on display Monday was what I’ll call the “responsiveness” of Sanders’ campaign. For the first few months after he entered the contest, Sanders largely shied away from issues of racial equality: bias in policing, mass incarceration, voting rights, the treatment of unauthorized immigrants. In July, Sanders, who has always been “all about unions, corporations — basically economic issues rather than cultural ones,” according to an old friend and early political confidant, appeared at Netroots Nation and frustrated civil rights activists when he answered questions about racial issues by pivoting back to economic ones. “Black lives of course matter,” he said defensively after he was interrupted by Black Lives Matter protesters. “If you don’t want me to be here, that’s OK.” In Seattle last weekend,  another group of Black Lives Matter protesters took the stage and refused to let Sanders speak.


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Sanders speaks at the rally at the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena on Monday. (Photo: Ringo H.W. Chiu/AP)


Sanders has a reputation for self-righteousness, and initially he seemed to be sticking to his “it’s a class problem not a race problem” script. But in the weeks since Netroots Nation, something seems to have changed. First, the candidate took a meeting with Symone Sanders (no relation), a young black organizer with the D.C.-based Coalition for Juvenile Justice. He  listened to her unsolicited advice on racial issues. Then he offered her a job as his national press secretary. A day after being interrupted in Seattle, the candidate  released a sweeping policy platform designed to combat racial inequality. And in Portland and Los Angeles, Symone Sanders debuted as the new public face of the campaign, emceeing each event and introducing her boss to his supporters.

“It’s very important that we say those words: ‘black lives matter,’” Symone Sanders said in L.A. “It’s also important that people in office turn those words into action.”

A few minutes later, Bernie Sanders pledged to do just that. “One year after the death of Michael Brown,” he said from the podium, “there’s no candidate who will fight harder to end institutional racism.”

Ultimately, these two differences — the mind-boggling size of Sanders’ early campaign events and the speed with which he has reshuffled his campaign in response to activists’ concerns — may have less to do with the messenger himself, or his message, than the changing world Sanders is now trying to reach, and the tools he now has at his disposal to reach it.

Nearly eight years ago, I wrote a story for Newsweek about the rise of what some observers were then referring to as “long tail” candidates for president. (The phrase was a reference to the theory, popularized by Wired editor Chris Anderson, that “our economy and culture is shifting from mass markets to million of niches.”) My argument was that we were beginning to move away from the two-sizes-fit-all categories of Democrat and Republican and toward a more personalized, motley politics.

“As the Web allows niche voters to form communities, raise money and get heard,” I wrote, “it’s inevitable that the major-party machines will clash with — and ultimately accommodate — the individualized constituencies they’re struggling to serve.”

The experts I talked to made a couple of predictions. First, that “unlike their predecessors, the next generation of niche politicians won’t necessarily choose the third-party route. Instead, tomorrow’s most successful narrowcasters will likely run as major-party candidates in the primaries, where widely seen debates and easy ballot access will bring exposure and credibility.” Second, while long-tail candidates won’t win the White House anytime soon, “their niche concerns and vocal supporters will demand unprecedented attention” — and mainstream politicians will begin to mine their more marginal counterparts for ideas (and votes).

The sense I got Monday is that the Sanders campaign is the first full realization of this concept. Instagram didn’t exist when Obama launched his presidential campaign in 2007. The iPhone had yet to be released. Twitter still hadn’t taken off. Facebook was a way to connect with your real-life friends — not a global hub for news, marketing and politics.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3byEyLkG67a6z_qALVNlwA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW5l/https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/efa2cd6a77afa62af6010ca1bfcfb16354e7a9bf.jpg)
A supporter takes pictures during the Sanders rally in Los Angeles  on Monday. (Photo: Ringo H.W. Chiu/AP)


Since then, social media has permeated every aspect of our lives. It’s become our constant mobile companion. It basically is the media at this point — the main way we absorb information about what’s happening in the world. And that, in turn, has amplified the long-tail effect on presidential politics. When every candidate is in your pocket all the time, it’s easier to find the one who seems to speak for you; when your feed is full of friends echoing your political passions, it’s easier to feel like you’re part of something bigger than yourself — a “political revolution,” as Sanders put in Los Angeles. Nothing is fringe; everything feels mainstream. And when activists revolt, a candidate can’t help but hear; every criticism is reposted, regrammed and retweeted until it becomes impossible to ignore.

That’s a big part of the reason why more than 27,000 people showed up to see Sanders speak in Los Angeles: because everyone seemed to be going. And it’s a big part of the reason why Sanders shifted his stance on racial justice so quickly as well: because everyone seemed to be complaining.

As I was leaving the Memorial Sports Arena Monday night, I met a man named Steve Smith. He’d caravanned into the city from Azusa with his wife and four friends. I asked him what he thought of the rally.

“It was absolutely electrifying — like seeing Zeppelin or the Who,” said Smith, 61. “Compare this to Hillary — a couple hundred people with zero enthusiasm. Sanders is the horse to keep your eye on. He’s the only candidate I know who can get huge numbers of the under-25s out to vote. The others don’t stand a chance.”

I was going to ask whether Smith really thought Sanders could upend the system — whether the senator from Vermont could do what Nader, Perot and Paul had failed to do — or whether that was just how it seemed on a warm night in Southern California, surrounded by tens of thousands of hopeful supporters streaming north through Exposition Park. But then I noticed him sniffing the air.

I sniffed too. Somebody was smoking pot.

“A familiar smell!” said Smith. He grinned. “Not bad at all.”
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 21, 2015, 11:20:18 PM
This gives me hope against Hillary and Citizen's United.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 22, 2015, 05:25:58 PM
Note the use of an unappealing pic of Senator Sanders with the article, instead of the obvious one:

(https://thatshowthelightgetsin.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/img_0761.jpg?w=300&h=200)

...This happens constantly in what little coverage I find of him...

Hm.  Got to disagree with you on that particular case.  The pic you post is NOT a good pic.  Unless photoshop can save it from the woes of the camera/operator flaws that took it. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 23, 2015, 12:03:14 PM
Quote
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/257697-[Sleezebag]-nears-100-days-on-top
[Sleezebag] nears 100 days on top

Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] is closing in on 100 days atop the Republican primary polls.

The billionaire candidate has led every major national Republican poll since late July, and a raft of new surveys released this week reveals that [Sleezebag]’s support has held steady over those months, while his underlying fundamentals have improved.

The race has tightened somewhat, as Ben Carson has enjoyed a similar upward trajectory and even overtaken [Sleezebag] in one new poll of Iowa. However, the retired neurosurgeon is the only candidate within shouting distance of [Sleezebag] nationally or in the early voting states and remains firmly in second place in most polls.
Republicans and Beltway media elites, once hesitant to take [Sleezebag]’s campaign seriously, now acknowledge him as a legitimate contender in the races for the Republican nomination and the White House.

“All of us dismissed [Sleezebag] early on. A summer fling, momentary amusement,” “Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace said after interviewing [Sleezebag] over the weekend. “As I watch that interview … I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States.”

All aboard the [Sleezebag] train.  8)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2015, 02:46:21 PM
Quote
Chafee ends his presidential campaign
Associated Press  October‎ ‎23‎, ‎2015



WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee is ending his Democratic presidential campaign.

In prepared remarks before an appearance before the Democratic National Committee, Chafee said he is dropping out.

Chafee delivered a widely panned debate performance earlier this month. He has struggled to raise money and gain traction against Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

The former U.S. senator called himself a "block of granite" when it came to issues during the debate and has highlighted his opposition to the Iraq war.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/chafee-ends-presidential-campaign-122809026--election.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/chafee-ends-presidential-campaign-122809026--election.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 25, 2015, 01:32:52 AM
Quote
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/257697-[Sleezebag]-nears-100-days-on-top
[Sleezebag] nears 100 days on top

Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] is closing in on 100 days atop the Republican primary polls.

The billionaire candidate has led every major national Republican poll since late July, and a raft of new surveys released this week reveals that [Sleezebag]’s support has held steady over those months, while his underlying fundamentals have improved.

The race has tightened somewhat, as Ben Carson has enjoyed a similar upward trajectory and even overtaken [Sleezebag] in one new poll of Iowa. However, the retired neurosurgeon is the only candidate within shouting distance of [Sleezebag] nationally or in the early voting states and remains firmly in second place in most polls.
Republicans and Beltway media elites, once hesitant to take [Sleezebag]’s campaign seriously, now acknowledge him as a legitimate contender in the races for the Republican nomination and the White House.

“All of us dismissed [Sleezebag] early on. A summer fling, momentary amusement,” “Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace said after interviewing [Sleezebag] over the weekend. “As I watch that interview … I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States.”

All aboard the [Sleezebag] train.  8)


The thing is, [Sleezebag] is so much more different from the other candidates than they are from each other that it's very possible that as people drop out most of their support will go to people other than [Sleezebag], leaving him behind.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 26, 2015, 05:03:32 PM
Quote
Sanders getting ‘a little more pointed’ on Clinton, but not ‘negative’
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  October‎ ‎25‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/AeT.rEFUfqsV6Ku0Mjf0hg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/7f7c4ba98bb181dcc077af86aa0fcfbd/tumblr_inline_nwsf2q7sJT1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., speaks to guests at the Jefferson-Jackson Dinner Saturday in Des Moines, Iowa. (Photo: Scott Olson/Getty Images)



DES MOINES, Iowa — Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., went on the offensive at the Iowa Democratic Party’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner, where he delivered a speech that highlighted former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s shifting positions. His performance earned headlines dubbing him “fiery” and “bare-knuckle.” However, his campaign insists the remarks aren’t the beginning of an all-out attack on Clinton in their race for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Sanders’ press secretary, Symone Sanders, told Yahoo News on Sunday that she was surprised by some of the coverage of his speech.

“I saw some reports saying, you know, ‘Oh, the senator like smacked Hillary, slapped Hillary, attacked her.’ Those were not slaps, attacks and smacks, but they were differentiating on the issues,” Symone said. “The senator has a really strong record to stand on, so he’s going to stand on it.”

Clinton is the frontrunner in the Democratic primary, but state and national polls show Sanders is her top rival.

Sanders’ speech included lines that alluded to Clinton’s vote for the Iraq War when she was in the Senate, her long pauses before announcing opposition to the Keystone XL pipeline and Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement and the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act during the administration of her husband, President Bill Clinton. Symone pointed out that Sanders began an effort to “differentiate” his record from his opponent’s heading into the Democratic presidential debate on Oct. 13. While she acknowledged he may have sharpened his approach, Symone vowed Sanders will not “directly attack” Clinton.

“I think what folks saw last night, you know, was Bernie came out and was being a little more pointed in his record, if you will. … Prior to last night, he had not drawn as stark a contrast of where he stands as opposed to the other candidates. I think that is definitely true,” Symone explained. “Folks that have said, ‘Bernie came out of the gate and said where he stands.’ Yes, he did, so I don’t think you haven’t seen that, but you won’t see him directly attack.”

In an interview on ABC’s “This Week With George Stephanopoulos” on Sunday, the day after the dinner, Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta suggested Sanders broke prior vows not to “go negative” with his speech.

“I think Bernie Sanders seemed to have a course correction in the JJ dinner from one in which he said he wasn’t going to go negative to obviously focusing his … fire on her,” said Podesta.

However, Symone specifically said Sanders will not go “negative” and begin criticizing Clinton by name.

“He has never done a negative attack ad in his life, and he has never gone on a negative campaign,” Symone said. “Bernie’s not going to start doing these interviews talking about how, ‘Secretary Clinton’s bad on blah blah blah.’ You know, you’ll never probably hear those words come out of his mouth. And what you will hear is him saying, you know, ‘I believe climate change is the greatest threat to our national security, so it didn’t take me four years to get a position on Keystone.’”

Symone framed Sanders’ Jefferson-Jackson dinner speech as an effort to “highlight his record.”

“I think that’s important to voters to know, especially for people that don’t know the senator, to know … where he stands on these trade agreements,” said Symone. “Not just the Trans-Pacific partnership but, you know, NAFTA, CAFTA and the permanent normal trade agreement with China.”

According to Symone, it would be wrong to view Sanders’ comments on Keystone, various trade agreements, the Iraq War and DOMA as “Hillary zingers.”

“These were just the facts,” she said.

Symone also pointed to the moment in the Democratic debate where Sanders famously declared the American people had had “enough” of hearing about the scandal over Clinton’s emails. Clinton thanked Sanders onstage, and her campaign later told Yahoo News it felt like the moment was “an assist” from Sanders.

“He calls it like he sees it,” Symone said. “So he can go ahead and defend her and say, ‘Look, Americans are tired of these damn emails, they want to talk about the issues.’ Secretary’s, like, ‘Yeah.’ He’s like, ‘OK, but also, Americans are tired of these disastrous trade policies.’ And that might make some people uncomfortable, but you know what? Bernie was speaking truth to power. That’s what makes him so real and authentic.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-getting-a-little-more-pointed-on-175507987.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-getting-a-little-more-pointed-on-175507987.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 26, 2015, 05:16:31 PM
Quote
Lindsey Graham on GOP field: ‘How am I losing to these people?’
Yahoo
Michael Walsh  ‎October‎ ‎26‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7jYxVPCVLgdZatYm8QAJLw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/893e4ea602291e0593fc3dac81788066/tumblr_inline_nwu1ytX5G51td5k0c_1280.jpg)
Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., speaks during a No Labels Problem Solver Convention in October in Manchester, N.H. (Photo: Jim Cole/AP)



South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham says he cannot fathom how real estate magnate Donald [Sleezebag] and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson are dominating the GOP presidential primaries.

Graham provided cutting assessments of their lack of political experience, foreign policies and overall temperaments during a wide-ranging interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” Monday.

“On our side, you’ve got the No. 2 guy [who] tried to kill someone at 14, and the No. 1 is high energy and crazy as hell. How am I losing to these people?” he said.

The Republican presidential candidate, who has been struggling in national polls, was referring to the time when Carson stabbed one of his high school classmates, an incident he has discussed openly.

Toward the end of the interview, Graham joked that he should start moving up in the polls because he — unlike Carson — has never tried to kill anyone.

“And I’ve tried to murder no one ever, so this should move me up a little bit,” he joked. “Well, the day’s not over, but as of right now, nobody.”

Graham has outlined his approach to national security, the central issue to his campaign, in great detail. He blamed [Sleezebag]’s and Carson’s political inexperience for what he considers to be misguided or grossly underdeveloped foreign policies.

“Just look at Donald [Sleezebag]’s foreign policy. What is it? What is he going to do about ISIL? What is it? What is it? What is his game plan to destroy ISIL? Does anybody know?” he said.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/FG96VPvuP5LYw4UuBHZH6A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/c3e064dcfa99dce24e926bde4c98a153/tumblr_inline_nwu224x6yV1td5k0c_1280.jpg)
Graham, right, watches as he and Sen. John McCain play the roulette wheel at a charitable gaming poker room in October in Manchester, N.H. (Photo: Jim Cole/AP)


[Sleezebag] has said he would bomb the oil fields in Iraq and Syria to take away the Islamic State’s wealth, but has repeatedly declined to elaborate on his strategy because he feels publicly discussing military strategy helps the enemy.

As for immigration — the issue [Sleezebag] dragged to the forefront while announcing his candidacy — Graham called the party frontrunner’s position “hateful and illogical.”

“There’s a reason 75 percent of Hispanics disapprove of this guy,” he said. “We will get slaughtered if he’s the nominee. So if you give a damn about winning, pick someone who doesn’t dig the hole deeper with Hispanics.”

As the election draws closer, Graham said, experience will start to matter more and people will realize that these candidates who have never held elected office are not prepared to be commander in chief.

“Like Ben Carson said he would have declared energy independence as the reactions of 9/11. That’s kind of different,” he said. “You know, ‘I hereby declare,’ you know, bullhorn out here at the World Trade Center, ‘I hereby declare energy independence’ is not what I would be looking for. I think Bush got it right. So, Dr. Carson is a fine man. But his foreign policy is hard for me to follow.”

Primary polls consistently show [Sleezebag] and Carson in the first and second spots, respectively. Graham, on the other hand, is usually floundering toward the bottom of the pack.

An Ipsos/Reuters poll released last Wednesday showed that if the election were held today, 31 percent of Republicans would vote for [Sleezebag], 18 percent would vote for Carson and only 1 percent would vote for Graham.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/lindsey-graham-on-gop-field-how-am-i-losing-to-150953390.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/lindsey-graham-on-gop-field-how-am-i-losing-to-150953390.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 26, 2015, 10:52:09 PM
Quote
As for immigration — the issue [Sleezebag] dragged to the forefront while announcing his candidacy — Graham called the party frontrunner’s position “hateful and illogical.”
This is why you are losing.

Quote
“There’s a reason 75 percent of Hispanics disapprove of this guy,” he said. “We will get slaughtered if he’s the nominee. So if you give a damn about winning, pick someone who doesn’t dig the hole deeper with Hispanics.”

Why are Republicans spitting on their own base to pander to a people that don't vote for them?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 28, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
Quote
Your debate scorecard for the Republican presidential debate in Colorado
Yahoo Politics
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  ‎October‎ ‎28‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/sAwnD58U.IAWnkB9xUZKLA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzQ0O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/d6005671e0d7ff9c24d2ba533cc1cb32/tumblr_inline_nwwqjqGAYi1t2npxi_540.jpg)
UFC middleweight fighter Vitor Belfort poses with presidential candidate Ben Carson in Florida Tuesday. Belfort is endorsing Carson. (Photo: Susan Stocker/South Florida Sun-Sentinel via AP)


Ben Carson is surging, but what will voters think of him as they take a closer look? Donald [Sleezebag] is falling behind Carson in Iowa and is none too happy about it. Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush are jostling for position and could be headed for a showdown. The Republican field has one less candidate since the second debate of this campaign six weeks ago. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is gone. Now Bush is on the ropes. Here is a rundown on where the race stands and what each of the candidates needs to do Wednesday night inside the Coors Center on the campus of the University of Colorado to stay competitive.


Donald [Sleezebag]

26.8 percent in national polling / 20.6 percent in Iowa / 29.5 percent in New Hampshire

He has been No. 1 in the Real Clear Politics average of all national polling since July 20, a total of more than 100 days. But he is falling like a rock in Iowa and has dropped behind retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson. The process by which political parties actually select their nominee — also known as reality — is starting to catch up to the Donald. And he has begun to lash out. At first he denied that Carson was actually beating him in Iowa, which goes first in the primary process. But two more polls came out after [Sleezebag] argued to Matt Lauer on Monday morning that the Iowa polling was an anomaly. [Sleezebag] will have to face the facts and has already begun to go after Carson on abortion. That’s a smarter tactic than raising questions about Carson’s membership in the Seventh-Day Adventist Church, but in a debate [Sleezebag] could probably go any direction if he thinks he can take Carson down.


Ben Carson

22 percent / 29.2 percent / 14 percent

It’s been an amazing two-month stretch for Carson. For all of September and early October, he kept pace with [Sleezebag] as the No. 2 candidate in national polling. But now he is taking on the aura of a frontrunner. He is ahead of [Sleezebag] by an average of 10 points in the last several polls and overtook [Sleezebag] in national polling for the first time on Tuesday. Carson has never experienced the kind of pressure he’ll be under on the debate stage in Boulder, with many of the other candidates gunning for him. In addition to [Sleezebag]’s broadsides, look for conservatives like Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, to take shots at Carson’s past actions and statements on abortion. In particular, they’ll zero in on the fact that Carson has referred patients to doctors for abortions and that his campaign has defended him for doing so.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/W2oxDGmeN3Ef3XIA7S4lYQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzY2O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/60a4d98e8f3c2e722ed0d0c321ace673/tumblr_inline_nwwqjrUPCY1t2npxi_540.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio speaks last week in Salt Lake City. (Photo: Rick Bowmer/AP)


Marco Rubio

9 percent / 10.2 percent / 8.3 percent

The Florida senator’s campaign high command probably couldn’t have planned their candidate’s trajectory to this point any better. Actually, they did plan it, and they’re right where they want to be: still out of the harsh spotlight that comes with being the frontrunner but right in striking distance as the race heads into the final three months before Iowa. Rubio’s formula for these debates is incredibly simple: deliver his talking points with ease and style, crack a few jokes and flash that easy grin, and avoid squabbles with other candidates. One problem this time: Jeb Bush may be looking for a fight. Bush may need to knock Rubio down in order to reassure donors and supporters that he has what it takes to claim the backing of the establishment wing of the party. Bush advisers have already previewed the line of attack on Rubio that Bush is likely to make: that Rubio is a Republican version of President Obama, an inexperienced senator who can give a good speech but has shown little leadership ability and would be out of his league in the highest office in the land.


Jeb Bush

7 percent / 6.2 percent / 9 percent

It will be interesting to see which Jeb Bush shows up in Colorado. Does he continue to let his id out as he did over the weekend in South Carolina, and to hell with the consequences? Or does he continue to rein himself in as he did in the first two debates? Does he go after Rubio to assert himself with the establishment wing? Does he take the fight to [Sleezebag]? Can he? So far it’s been unclear. Bush clearly doesn’t relish the more martial element of politics. He’s not a brawler. But he may need to become one to rescue himself from what increasingly is looking like a campaign death spiral. Look for him also to use his newly released plan to reform entitlements to press other candidates on what they’d do to solve one of the biggest challenges facing the nation, one that politicians running for office are often loath to weigh in on.


Ted Cruz

6.6 percent / 9.6 percent / 5.5 percent

Cruz has been waiting a long time now for [Sleezebag] and Carson to implode so he can snatch up their supporters. He can wait a while longer. He’s got plenty of cash. But of anyone in the field, he has the greatest incentive to sow doubt among conservatives about Carson’s conservative credentials. Iowa is fertile ground for Cruz, and he won’t want Carson to get too much momentum there. On the other hand, it’s still very early in Carson’s rise to the top of the polls, and Cruz has some time to see how things shake out without taking the risk of attacking Carson openly.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Q6HvDR2BBjFMFKkqkd.jew--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzUyO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://36.media.tumblr.com/b19d3cd1b9912c304e3800622d09ac33/tumblr_inline_nwwqjrVxSy1t2npxi_540.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina, left, with assistant Rebecca Schieber, at a University of Iowa football game in September. (Photo: Charlie Neibergall/AP)


Carly Fiorina

5.8 percent / 3.8 percent / 7.8 percent

A common headline these days is “What happened to Carly Fiorina?” She has starred in both Republican debates so far, and after the second she rose to third place in national polling. She’s still at the bottom of the upper tier of candidates, but a pattern of boom and bust is not sustainable. She’ll have to figure out how to maintain any rise in the polls she gets out of Wednesday night.


Mike Huckabee

3.8 percent / 2 percent / 1 percent

Huckabee is the highest-polling member of the Can’t Rise Caucus: the eight Republicans who have been stuck most of the primary at no higher than 3 or 4 percent. Each of them is battling some ceiling that is unique to them. For Huckabee, it’s the fact that he won the Iowa caucuses in 2008 but didn’t win the nomination. Early primary state voters want to pick a winner, so Huckabee’s failure to win it all eight years ago is an obstacle to his winning Iowa again. In addition, he has been a lackluster candidate so far, raising questions about whether his bid is just an effort to kick-start book sales and his cable TV career. He’s had some solid endorsements in Iowa recently from pastors and homeschooling leaders — communities that helped fuel his win last time he ran — but at 2 percent he’s worse off in Hawkeye State polling than he is in the national surveys.


Rand Paul

3.4 percent / 3.8 percent / 4.3 percent

When the main storyline about your campaign is that the Senate majority leader of your own party, who has endorsed your presidential candidacy, is pressuring you to abandon your run for the White House, that’s suboptimal. Paul desperately needs a major course correction.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/_kH7qo76oZ5SSq_5gT_Tbg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDUwO2g9MzAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/bb865a128233dd3fb94471008462a24f/tumblr_inline_nwwqjs788a1t2npxi_540.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate and Ohio Gov. John Kasich, right, in New Hampshire earlier this month. (Photo: Brian Snyder/Reuters)


John Kasich

2.6 percent / 2 percent / 7 percent

The third member of the Can’t Rise Caucus took some heated shots at [Sleezebag] and Carson on Tuesday in Ohio, his home state, calling their ideas “crazy.” Consider that a heads-up that there will be more fireworks Wednesday night from the outspoken governor and former member of Congress. Kasich is more than capable of going off. His advisers may have decided it’s time to let the dog out.


Chris Christie

2.4 percent / 1.2 percent / 3.3 percent

The charismatic New Jersey governor has to believe that at some point he’ll get a shot. So far he hasn’t found an opening. It seems unlikely he will go the entire campaign without some moment where he gets a second look from voters. Like Kasich, Christie has so far kept his sometimes volatile personality in check. If Kasich lets loose, Christie might want to let him go first. Unless Christie can’t afford to stay in the race financially, he’s probably better off biding his time a bit longer before trying to make a move.


Lindsey Graham, Rick Santorum and Bobby Jindal

1 percent (2.8 percent for Jindal in Iowa)

Graham’s “How am I losing to these people?” line was a good one, but he remains without a path to the nomination. Santorum and Jindal, meanwhile, continue to toil away in Iowa with the hope that they can surprise people and finish in the top three there on Feb. 1. There’s still time for that, but so far they’re still stuck in nowheresville in the polls, except for a few recent positive showings by Jindal in some surveys.


George Pataki

0.2 percent / 0.0 percent / 0.3 percent

Don Quixote remains.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/your-debate-scorecard-for-the-1287472602374198.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/your-debate-scorecard-for-the-1287472602374198.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 28, 2015, 06:12:19 PM
Quote
http://prntly.com/blog/2015/10/15/official-october-electoral-map-gloom-for-dems-joy-for-[Sleezebag]/
Quote
Official October Electoral Map: gloom for Dems, joy for [Sleezebag]
(http://prntly.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Untitled15.png)
8)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 28, 2015, 07:42:21 PM
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/824518/original.jpg)

Just sayin'
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on October 28, 2015, 08:02:28 PM
Yes illegal aliens and voter intimidation won Obama the election whats your point.
If Romney had had Reagan's demographics he'd have won.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 29, 2015, 03:59:09 AM
My point is it's stupid early for such maps made from questionable sources, and labelled "official".

Quote
Based on an average of the RCP polling data from all the states and all the “head to head” matchups between Donald [Sleezebag] (by far the winner of the GOP) and Hillary Clinton (The winner of the Democratic Party) shows bad news for the Democrats.


North Carolina is literally the first state with a head to head poll from RCP in historical order of their poll page and shows Clinton leading, while the map has it firmly red. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nc/north_carolina_trump_vs_clinton-5538.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nc/north_carolina_trump_vs_clinton-5538.html)

I don't care enough or have time to check any others. 

Now, [Sleezebag] Costumes are DOMINATING Halloween sales.  In an election year this is 100% accurate on determining the winner.  Don't know if anyone has even tracked the year prior sales vs election results before. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 02, 2015, 03:09:48 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders’ first television ad promises ‘real change’
Yahoo Politics
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  ‎November‎ ‎01‎, ‎2015


Real Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwwwn9zHT-8&feature=player_embedded#)

Quote
Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign has released its first television ad documenting the Vermont senator’s unlikely journey from Brooklyn to Washington.

“The son of a Polish immigrant who grew up in a Brooklyn tenement,” a voiceover says at the beginning of the minute-long ad. “He went to public schools, then college, where the work of his life began: fighting injustice and inequality. Speaking truth to power.”

It highlights Sanders’ four terms as mayor of Burlington, Vt., his opposition to the Iraq War in Congress and his ongoing battle with Wall Street and “a corrupt political system.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6pSkTGR0qk2SpAPLXEUWYA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/71182e15878a64f84b88bdbefda505b5/tumblr_inline_nx5jrpntpo1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
(YouTube/Bernie 2016)


The spot, entitled “Real Change,” will air in Iowa and New Hampshire, part of a $2 million-plus ad buy, according to the campaign.

The ad also notes that Sanders’ grassroots campaign has been funded “by over a million contributions.”

“People are sick and tired of establishment politics and they want real change,” Sanders says in a clip from a stump speech in Oregon.

“Bernie Sanders: Husband. Father. Grandfather,” the voiceover concludes. “An honest leader — building a movement with you to give us a future to believe in.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/4WXJySny1269cOJm_XNeMw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/c9830cd79ed5d097299e35765a6dafb7/tumblr_inline_nx5gqgcLfA1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders speaks at a rally in Portland, Ore., in August. (Photo: Troy Wayrynen/AP)


The ad is designed to introduce Sanders to voters in Iowa and New Hampshire who may not be familiar with his upbringing.

“As some of you know, I was born in a faraway land called Brooklyn,” Sanders said in May while formally announcing his presidential bid. “My father came to this country from Poland without a penny in his pocket and without much of an education. My mother graduated high school in New York City. My father worked for almost his entire life as a paint salesman and we were solidly lower middle class. My parents, brother and I lived in a small, rent-controlled apartment. My mother’s dream was to move out of that small apartment into a home of our own. She died young and her dream was never fulfilled. As a kid I learned, in many, many ways, what lack of money means to a family. That’s a lesson I have never forgotten.”

Hillary Clinton also highlighted her late mother’s influence in her campaign’s first TV ads that aired in Iowa and New Hampshire in August.


Family Strong | Hillary Clinton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdKsA4q-FFA&feature=player_embedded#)

Quote
“When I think about why I’m doing this, I think about my mother, Dorothy,” Clinton says in one of them. “I think about all the Dorothys all over America who fight for their families, who never give up. That’s why I’m doing this, that’s why I’ve always done this: for all the Dorothys.”

As expected, Sanders’ first TV ad does not mention his Democratic opponent.

The Vermont senator, who likes to say he’s “never run a negative political ad” in his life, vowed that his campaign would not resort to “reckless personal attacks or character assassination.”

“My campaign will be driven by issues and serious debate, not political gossip,” Sanders said in May. “This is what I believe the American people want and deserve.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-first-television-ad-promises-real-185918187.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-first-television-ad-promises-real-185918187.html)



...They forgot to lead with a pic of Sanders looking rant-y, mad -angry and/or crazed- and maybe a bit evil.  That's unprecedented in my experience...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 02, 2015, 06:21:13 AM
Quote
As for immigration — the issue [Sleezebag] dragged to the forefront while announcing his candidacy — Graham called the party frontrunner’s position “hateful and illogical.”
This is why you are losing.

Quote
“There’s a reason 75 percent of Hispanics disapprove of this guy,” he said. “We will get slaughtered if he’s the nominee. So if you give a damn about winning, pick someone who doesn’t dig the hole deeper with Hispanics.”

Why are Republicans spitting on their own base to pander to a people that don't vote for them?


Yes illegal aliens and voter intimidation won Obama the election whats your point.
If Romney had had Reagan's demographics he'd have won.

The demographics have changed, and are continuing to change. It doesn't look good for the GOP. Old white men like me are dying all of the time. We are no longer a majority. We can not afford to write off the blacks, antagonize women and gays, and insult the Hispanics, too. If the GOP doesn't adapt it will go the way of the Whigs and the No-Nothings.

If Cincinnati were on the other side of the river, W. would have lost to Kerry. If the Florida Supreme court had decided differently, Gore would have been president. Even when Republicans win a presidential election recently , it hasn't been by much.

Cultural Conservatives and Capitalists think that the Hispanics coming here seeking to better themselves through employment and entrepreneurism are a natural fit for the Republican version of the American Dream. Marco Rubio tells that tale pretty well.

Anyway, reaching out to Hispanics isn't the only path to victory, but it may be the fastest. Purging the party of Senators who say rape pregnancies are a gift from God, or casually use terms such as "legitimate rape" is only the beginning of bringing back women to the party.  Or maybe a black or a woman on the GOP ticket would help. Or maybe they could find a way to win over young people.



All of that said, if Donald [Sleezebag] can motivate people to vote who have given up on the political process, and haven't voted for years, good for him!




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on November 02, 2015, 11:30:43 PM
Quote
The demographics have changed,

Yes Its changed and we never voted to be invaded and replaced.
Just look to South Africa to see what happens when whites become a mInority. They get slaughtered.
Oh and by the way I actually know people that are unfortunate enough to live in South Africa.
Quote
If the GOP doesn't adapt it will go the way of the Whigs and the No-Nothings.
Its been "adapting" as you call it, and its gotten nothing but being called racist.
Quote
Anyway, reaching out to Hispanics isn't the only path to victory,
Victory for whom? Socialists? Just take a look at South American countries.
The idea of "reaching out" to Hispanics and "adapting" just means letting the
left do what they want. People in the Republican party are sick of being ignored and
replaced. Especially when they are paying for it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on November 03, 2015, 01:41:34 AM
This whole process elicits a single reaction from me. *digestive fluid in mouth mixed with a feeling of disgust*
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 03, 2015, 06:22:58 PM
Quote
The demographics have changed,

Yes Its changed and we never voted to be invaded and replaced.

That's probably what the Spanish speakers living in the Texas-California-Colorado triangle said in the  19th century.  ;)


Just look to South Africa to see what happens when whites become a mInority. They get slaughtered.
Oh and by the way I actually know people that are unfortunate enough to live in South Africa.

Okay. Maybe you can clarify a few things for me. Weren't the whites a minority when they settled there? Weren't they always a minority, even when they were in power?


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 03, 2015, 06:51:50 PM

Quote
Anyway, reaching out to Hispanics isn't the only path to victory,
Victory for whom? Socialists? Just take a look at South American countries.
The idea of "reaching out" to Hispanics and "adapting" just means letting the
left do what they want. People in the Republican party are sick of being ignored and
replaced. Especially when they are paying for it.

Victory for the Republicans.
Aren't the South American countries predominately Hispanic, except for the smallest ones?

Do you object to majority rule per se?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on November 03, 2015, 08:27:48 PM
Quote
That's probably what the Spanish speakers living in the Texas-California-Colorado triangle said in the  19th century.

The Spanish never owned it except on paper Texans fought for it and after they fought the bestial Cheyenne (They were fond of gang raping and cutting the noses off of girls they caught). The Mexicans decided to lay claim to it after American settlers tamed it. Naturally the Texans objected to this.
Quote
Okay. Maybe you can clarify a few things for me. Weren't the whites a minority when they settled there? Weren't they always a minority, even when they were in power?

No they were not. They were the majority there because there was no game there and the blacks don't know how to farm.
The South Africans bought the land from the few blacks that were there and still have the deed.
After the  white made a stable country the blacks came flooding across the border looking for  handouts
producing the majority black population we have now.

Quote
Victory for the Republicans.


Hispanics do not vote republican. They vote for whomever gives them the most benefits.
Look at South  America their countries are all socialist crapholes.
Quote
Do you object to majority rule per se?


An artificial majority thats being brought in to replace the native population without its consent.
This is genocide. When China does this in Mongolia its called a war Crime.
When its done in western countries its called "diversity."

Quote
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/whatisit.html

Quote
By Gregory H. Stanton, President, Genocide Watch
The crime of genocide is defined in international law in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 03, 2015, 10:42:52 PM
This is the last straw.  We're trying to have a decent place.

The next racist post I see earns a ban.
Title: Being married to Bernie
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 04, 2015, 04:20:03 PM
Quote
Being married to Bernie
Yahoo Politics
Lisa Belkin Chief National Correspondent  ‎November‎ ‎03‎, ‎2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/dnhyt3Vb3.D55zZVpl6JDQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://36.media.tumblr.com/a7d5b1656fa8fee917ff2c466d6b807c/tumblr_inline_nx76znUwDe1smb3m3_540.jpg)
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders and his wife, Jane, at a campaign rally in Manassas, Va., in September. (Photo: Cliff Owen/AP)


From the stage at the first Democratic presidential debate, nearly all the candidates opened with talk about their families.

“My wife, Hong, came to this country as a refugee from war-torn Vietnam,” said Jim Webb, who then went on to name his five children and their occupations, pausing just long enough in the middle to make viewers wonder if he was trying to remember one of them.

“My wife, Katie, and I have four great kids, Grace, and Tara, and William and Jack,” Martin O’Malley said when it was his turn, adding that his most important role was as “a husband, and a father.”

And Hillary Clinton, with all her complicated reasons not to bring up her spouse, still found a way to mention other generations and relations. “I’m the granddaughter of a factory worker and the grandmother of a wonderful 1-year-old child,” she said.

Bernie Sanders, however, didn’t pause to sketch a family portrait. In fact, he was the only one onstage who didn’t give a bio of any kind. He started right in with the “series of unprecedented national crises” that prompted his candidacy, and he never spoke of his 27-year marriage, nor the blended group of five children he and his wife consider theirs.

Sitting in the audience with two of those children, Jane O’Meara Driscoll Sanders was not the least bit surprised. Accomplished in her own right — she is, among other things, a former president of a Vermont college — she is the people person to his curmudgeon, the one who lives on the ground while he lives in his head. As her husband makes a strong national showing in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, she remains his closest adviser, and part of her advice, on debate night as always, was that he stay focused on why he decided to run this race in the first place.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/VIz2QadyvtXBFZ9E8BLGAQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://36.media.tumblr.com/93576a6032c97a6746078fc7e0954fad/tumblr_inline_nx8zdkB4ty1smb3m3_1280.jpg)


“Why should it be about me or about our family?” she said in a long and candid interview in her husband’s tiny Washington, D.C., campaign headquarters recently, dressed, as always, in casual flowing pants and blouse, her blue eyes framed by her long strawberry blond hair. “It’s about the issues. We’ve always been about the issues.”


*****

Their meet-cute was also a meet-political. In 1981, Jane O’Meara Driscoll, a recently divorced transplanted New Yorker, went to a meeting where the then mayor of Burlington was discussing a proposed tax hike that many thought would hurt low-income residents. Jane took the floor to ask some pointed questions, and when she sat down the person next to her said, “You sound like Bernie Sanders.”

“Who’s Bernie Sanders?” she asked.

He was the candidate opposing this six-term incumbent mayor, she was told, and Jane was soon working to organize a debate between the two. “He was so inspiring,” she says of her now husband at that event. “He embodied everything I believed in.”

She’d brought her then 6-year-old daughter, Carina, along, and a favorite family story is about how the little girl was the only one in the room who didn’t join in the standing ovation for her future stepfather.

“It was very clear from that night that Bernie was an astonishing person,” Carina remembers, stopping in briefly to chat during this interview. “He had the ability to really move people, and that was what drew my mother to him long before they were a couple.”

Well, not very long before. Jane and Bernie didn’t technically meet that night. She worked for his election, and they were introduced at his victory party 10 days later, after he won the race by 10 votes. Within months they were a couple.

“That was the beginning of forever,” she has said.

*****

When Jane gets tired, her children tease that her New York accent returns and “you sound just like you never left,” she says.

Born Mary Jane O’Meara in Brooklyn in 1950 (her family still uses the Mary), she grew up (like Bernie, who is nine years her senior) in Flatbush, where her childhood was defined by the chronic illness of her father. Benedict O’Meara had tripped over a sidewalk crack when Jane was 2 years old, breaking his hip, and then developed a blood infection from a deterioration of the surgically inserted pin.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/2LfONcig.BwPX_rKJnkPrQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9NDAxO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/6a3453488d9d3af6559a56144cf89f56/tumblr_inline_nx76znYHtb1smb3m3_540.jpg)
Bernie and Jane in 1984. (Photo: Sanders family)


He was hospitalized for two and a half years straight, and then returned to the hospital for several months each year after that, which meant he lost his job as a schoolteacher, which had been the only income for his family of five children. When not bedridden he became a taxi driver. Jane’s mother, Bernadette, went to secretarial school at night and persuaded the Catholic kindergarten to accept Jane, her youngest, at age 3 instead of 4 so Bernadette could work during the school day. It was only 12 years later, when Jane’s older brother had built a successful business — as a blacksmith in Brooklyn (no, really) — and paid cash for the first complete medical workup their father ever had, that Benedict became well enough to stay out of the hospital for several years at a time.

“It was an awakening,” Jane says. “It was my first realization that money can buy health, and that this fact was deeply unjust.”

After graduating from Catholic high school in Flatbush, she went to the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, where she studied “marriage and children,” she says — specifically classes in marriage in the family and child development — as a sociology major. She married her high school sweetheart, David Driscoll, and left without a degree. When they moved back to Brooklyn, he worked in sales for an office supply company and she worked hourly jobs — cashier, teller — while raising two children, Heather (now a yoga instructor in Sedona, Ariz.) and Carina (a founder and owner of a Vermont woodworking school).

In the early ’70s, Driscoll was transferred by IBM to Manassas, Va., where the city girl learned to hoe fields in her ever-expanding vegetable garden and grow “actual corn.” But she chafed at the culture of a place “where the men would go after dinner and talk politics and the women would go clean up,” she says. Wanting different role models for her daughters, she urged Driscoll to ask for a transfer north, which is how she came to live in Vermont in 1975, where her youngest child, Dave (now a director of a Vermont snowboard company), was born, and where she enrolled in Goddard College — a school that to this day remains proud of its “history of creativity and chaos, invention and experimentation” — to finish her social work degree.

By the late ’70s she was divorced — amicably, she says. (“We were childhood sweethearts. We grew apart.”) In 1981 she was working for the Juvenile Division of the Burlington Police Department and volunteering at local youth centers when she attended the pivotal mayoral debate. Between that night and Election Day, Bernie created a “task force on youth” to advise his campaign and asked each of 12 local organizations to send a representative to brainstorm ways to help children and families. The youth center sent Jane, and the group selected her as chair. So she worked for Bernie before she met him.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/4Ffx9XBoiUKBfBRQGnKpKQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/82fde6879378c4a364124080d579e68c/tumblr_inline_nx8zciZUi31smb3m3_1280.jpg)


After his election he appointed her the head of his new Youth Office, a post that reported to the city council, not the mayor, which was convenient, since romantic sparks flew more or less immediately. In that job she created programs that she believes still help keep Burlington on lists of best places to raise a family in the U.S. The office sponsored after-school programs, a municipal childcare center, a teen center, a performing arts program, and both a newspaper and local access TV show produced by students.

Her romantic dinners with the mayor usually involved talking policy and politics, and the day after their 1988 wedding the newlyweds marched together in the Burlington Memorial Day parade, then got on a plane with 10 other people for a visit to Burlington’s “sister city” in Yaroslavl, Russia, for the Sanders version of a honeymoon.

“They are a team; they always were a team,” says Carina. “They have been a really amazing example of a partnership based on building something extraordinary together.”

*****

By the time he and Jane met, Bernie Sanders had been married and divorced and had fathered a child, Levi (now a paralegal in Boston), from another long-term relationship.

After Jane’s divorce, her ex-husband went on to have another child, Nicole. All five children — Heather, Carina, Dave, Levi and Nicole — along with the seven grandchildren, are simply “family,” Jane says, “no halves or steps” about it.

Says Carina, of the man she has always called Bernie: “I’m his daughter. He’s my dad. We grew up in his house. They’re our parents.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/5zrLIZVWKiwT_5BfvF.ucg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDgwO2g9NjMxO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/130e4beee796fe3675dd74086969f7e0/tumblr_inline_nx76zo8kGn1smb3m3_540.jpg)
Bernie and Jane in front of their home in Burlington, Vt., in 1988 with their children, from left, Dave, Heather, Levi, and Carina. (Photo: Sanders family)


So much so that when, long after the divorce, David Driscoll was dying of lung cancer, Jane and Bernie moved him into the unoccupied condo they had bought for Bernie’s mother to live in before she died. And when Nicole was married, Bernie and Jane threw the wedding.

“Family is family,” Jane says. “We take care of each other.”

But, she adds, it’s not a family that fits neatly into a campaign bio — or the opening statement of a presidential debate.

All but the youngest of the children were at college or living on their own by the time Bernie became Vermont’s only congressman in 1991. Dave and Carina stayed in Burlington, where they were attending high school, Bernie spent weekdays in Washington and weekends back home, and Jane often shuttled between the two, having left her job with the Youth Office to help set up and run his Capitol Hill office.

That’s the constant question all Capitol Hill couples face, she says: “Do you move the family down there and lose him every weekend, or keep the family back home and only see him on the weekends, have a weekend marriage?”

In addition to forcing the couple to shuttle between homes, the new job led to a reshuffling of their partnership. “When he was mayor we just made it up as we went along,” she says. “We would say, ‘This needs to be done,’ and then we would do it. But when you come to Congress, you have to learn how does the job get done, how do the committees work, how do the party structures work?”

Jane was involved from the start, reading through resumes and hiring staff, attending the informational seminars held by the leadership on how to run a congressional office. But now when she suggested, “Why don’t we try it this way?” he often said, “Jane, this isn’t Burlington, we can’t just make our own decisions.”

It also took a while to make friends. Washington social life is a complex organism, and at first it seemed that many of the other spouses lacked the “urgency about the issues” that she felt — reminiscent of the days when the men discussed politics on the porch while the women went back inside to clean up. She often found herself drawn more to the conversation with the members than with their husbands and wives. (That changed over the years, she adds, and now she has a deep bench of friends among House and Senate spouses.)

In the first few years she was at various times her husband’s press secretary, chief of staff, and political analyst, all while working toward the PhD she would earn in sociology. (Should her husband be elected president, that would make her the first first lady to hold the title of doctor.) She was also on the board of trustees of her alma mater, Goddard College, and in 1996, when the president of that school abruptly resigned, she agreed to step in as interim president and provost. By all accounts she steered Goddard through a rocky time, helping build morale and shore up finances.

“I went in when they needed me and learned that I could do it,” she said of her 18-month tenure.

It left her wanting to do more.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/bWLjCPSXHixEOFo0BdsHjw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/e38cb3f58925e6f0a5cfe9d14194ff5a/tumblr_inline_nx8zb3L0p51smb3m3_1280.jpg)


She founded CEO Leadership Strategies, a political and educational consulting firm based in Burlington, but conflict of interest rules meant she needed to eventually choose between earning a living as a strategist or continuing to serve that role for her husband.

Then, in 2004 she was named president of Burlington College, a commuter school of about 200 full-time students — most of them older and with untraditional backgrounds, in other words, the kind of student she had been when she returned to Goddard for her degree. She left both her roles — at her company and as Bernie’s adviser — to take the job.

For three years she was president of a college and he was the congressman representing the state where that college was based. In 2007 he was elected to the Senate, and the dividing lines between their jobs became even more carefully defined. During her interim time at Goddard, she says, those lines had been informal because “there I was surrounded by familiar faces who knew me for decades and who knew Bernie well enough not to expect any treats from him.” But as they both grew in clout and stature, in organizations that were less familiar, “we more carefully separated our interests,” she says.

Among the rules, she says: She never spoke to members of his staff about any subject that had anything to do with the college. He almost never came to visit her at work, at most attending a few graduation ceremonies. When Burlington College applied for federal grants of any sort, its president’s name was not on the application and it would try whenever possible to pool its requests with those of other entities with similar interests in the state.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/HNwlX51cR8eenTJYBdVD6g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzU5O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/59d49b988b2c3652913b9236a29937e2/tumblr_inline_nx76zotpQH1smb3m3_540.jpg)
Jane is her husband’s closest adviser, and part of her advice is to stay focused on why he decided to run in the first place. “We’ve always been about the issues,” she says. (Photo: Mary F. Calvert for Yahoo News)


Despite the college’s determination to avoid conflict, however, controversy still managed to arise. One accusation that comes up increasingly often recently is that as part of Sanders’ expansion plan, Burlington College went into debt to buy a $10 million, 32-acre parcel of land for a new campus. The state agency that agreed to issue tax-exempt bonds against the loan required a commitment of several million dollars from private donors, and in listing those pledges the school included one large pledge that was a future commitment rather than money already in hand. It is standard accounting practice to count these, but in this case the payment never came through and the school now faces serious financial troubles.

The shortfall is a favorite topic of conservative websites, such as the Daily Caller, which call it deliberate loan fraud, saying it was the secret reason behind Jane’s departure from Burlington College in 2011. She calls that “nonsense,” saying that she left after seven years on the job because new board leadership came in that did not agree with her “expansive vision,” so she stepped aside. The current financial difficulties began under her successor, she says. Similarly, talk of loans and bonds and fraud didn’t come up until years after she had left, she says, when her husband began being mentioned as a possible candidate for president.

*****

When talk of the White House first began, Jane was against the idea. “Do you really want to spend all your time raising money and defending every single thing that every single one of us ever did or thought?” she remembers asking.

In her attempts to redirect, she says, “I thought of all sorts of ways he could raise the issues he felt were being ignored, but he could do that without running. Start a nonprofit. Write a book. Find other ways to steer the conversation.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cm.p2jIjwktQ_A2ahKfsJw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://36.media.tumblr.com/00c9805060b3130eeb46db97f85e17f3/tumblr_inline_nx8zbteCh91smb3m3_1280.jpg)


But in the end she gave her consent, and while she thought the campaign would succeed in its actual goal — not necessarily winning, but pushing other candidates to talk about things like income inequality — she and Bernie were both surprised by how fast it became so big.

That reality hit late this spring in Minneapolis, the first time the Sanders campaign drew a crowd of thousands. They were in a van, as usual, and Phil Fiermonte, the campaign field director, was driving, as usual, and as they approached the venue they saw a line snaking around the block.

“Who are we competing with, Phil?” Bernie asked, assuming that the crowd was for something, or someone, else. But it was for him.

The crowds have gotten even larger since then, yet their campaign style hasn’t changed much. Jane still travels with her husband whenever she can, because “it helps him to have a familiar face, someone he can count on.” They talk equal parts grandchildren and strategy while on the road.

Though no stranger to giving speeches herself — college presidents give a lot of them — so far Jane has stuck to shaking hands and talking to voters one on one. In a field of accomplished spouses — Kate O’Malley is a judge, Heidi Cruz is a former investment banker and Bill Clinton is Bill Clinton — she is arguably the least mentioned. She has no staff of her own. To set up an interview you call her cellphone and she answers. If you get lost on the way to the interview you call her cell again and she gives directions. Ask her where she will be the next week and she isn’t really sure, because this campaign’s schedule is a rather fluid thing.

“My daughter keeps saying I need some sort of assistant,” she says. “But it’s not about me.”

It’s about the issues, she repeats. And to watch her watch her husband on the debate stage, where he doesn’t mention her at all, is to get a glimpse of the effect his ideas had on her the first time she heard him speak.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6g7mntaWBpw5mnyQPE60AQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzY0O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/573eff055536a9bc827788a27ffbf002/tumblr_inline_nx76zpo73T1smb3m3_540.jpg)
Bernie Sanders kisses Jane before announcing his candidacy for the presidency in May. (Photo: Win McNamee/Getty Images)


“He’s doing what he aimed to do,” she gushed a few days after it was over. “The last election the candidates didn’t talk about inequality, they didn’t talk about fairness, they didn’t talk about climate change. He’s setting the agenda. That’s what it’s about.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/being-married-to-bernie-1291469214744630.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/being-married-to-bernie-1291469214744630.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 04, 2015, 05:09:13 PM
The Spanish never owned it except on paper Texans fought for it and after they fought the bestial Cheyenne (They were fond of gang raping and cutting the noses off of girls they caught). The Mexicans decided to lay claim to it after American settlers tamed it. Naturally the Texans objected to this.

Uka sha na.

You ever consider writing a history book?  Would be fascinating...

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on November 04, 2015, 09:29:53 PM
Quote
You ever consider writing a history book?  Would be fascinating...
Its already been written down already. Actually.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 06, 2015, 04:41:56 AM
The polls have re-arranged some since I last discussed them.

[Sleezebag] and Carson are competitive, and NBC has taken to calling Carson the frontrunner.
Joining them in the Double-Digit Group are Rubio and Cruz.

Then there's the Single Digit Group.
Bush, Fiorina, Paul, Kasich, Huckabee, and Christie. Christie and Huckabee barely qualify for the Milwaukee debate now, another weak poll and they could miss it.

Then there's the Negligible Group. They haven't polled above 1% in the last several polls.
Jindal, Graham, Santorum, Pataki. None of them even registered in the last poll, and it's not the first time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on November 06, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
Why do people follow the clowns known as politicians? What opportunties can they provide for the people?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 06, 2015, 11:30:04 PM
I find it interesting.

More importantly, I think that the less that people pay attention, the more entitled the politicians feel to do as they themselves please.  I find that public indifference leads to corruption and abuses such as Gitmo and the Patriot Act. That's my opinion.

Perhaps you meant "follow" in a different sense. Rather than "watch", you meant "assist".
Sometimes it's idealism, or making connections, or doing something to put on a resume. Sometimes they expect access or spoils, same as the contributors, such as jobs and contracts. Sometimes people are training to run a campaign of their own.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 20, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
Quote
The top 5 takeaways from Bernie Sanders' big speech
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  November 19, 2015



Sen. Bernie Sanders gave one of the most important speeches of his presidential campaign in Washington, D.C., on Thursday, outlining his “democratic socialist ideals.”

Speaking at Georgetown University, the Democratic candidate battled perceptions his ideas are foreign or “radical” and framed his proposals as a modern version of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal.

His remarks included much of his standard stump speech embedded in a broader narrative framework seeking to situate his policy pronouncements within a broader political vision and American historical context.

Sanders also discussed foreign policy in the wake of the Paris terror attacks that left 129 people dead last Friday.

Here are five key points from the address:


1. Sanders doesn’t think his ideas are radical.

A core issue for Sanders as he has mounted a surprisingly strong challenge to frontrunner Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary has been electability and the question of whether voters can get comfortable with his unorthodox political identity. In his speech, Sanders attempted to argue his “democratic socialist” views are in line with American traditions and ideals.

Sanders repeatedly referred to F.D.R. and claimed his policies are similar and face similar opposition from the “ruling class.”

“He redefined the relationship of the federal government to the people of our nation. He combated cynicism, fear and despair. He reinvigorated democracy. He transformed our country,” Sanders said of Roosevelt. “And that is exactly what we have to do today. And by the way, almost everything he proposed, almost every program, every idea he introduced was called ‘socialist.’”

Sanders also invoked Martin Luther King Jr. and Pope Francis as he made his case.

In addition to arguing his ideas are not unprecedented within the country, Sanders pointed out that many of them are already in place abroad. When he discussed his plan for universal health insurance, Sanders noted that some people consider it “incredibly radical.” He pushed back against that characterization.

“This is not a radical idea. It is a conservative idea. It is an idea and a practice that exists in every other major country on Earth,” Sanders said.


2. Sanders thinks the system is rigged.

Fighting income inequality and pushing for campaign finance reform are the two cornerstones of Sanders’ platform.

In his speech, Sanders attempted to link these two things together and argued there is a “corrupt” and “rigged” political system that allows the incredibly wealthy and major corporations to solidify their position at the expense of the majority.

“The bottom line is that today in America, we not only have massive wealth and income inequality, but a power structure built around that inequality, which protects those who have the money,” Sanders said. “Today, a handful of superwealthy campaign contributors have enormous influence over the political process, while their lobbyists determine much of what goes on in Congress.“


3. Sanders doesn’t necessarily think this is a free country.

Sanders pointed to Roosevelt’s call for a “Second Bill of Rights” as he outlined his proposals. He noted Roosevelt believed “true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.”

“In other words, real freedom must include economic security,” said Sanders. “That was Roosevelt’s vision 70 years ago. It is my vision today. It is a vision that we have not yet achieved, and it is time that we did.”

Sanders described a suite of policies that he said would give people a “living wage.” They included universal health coverage, free tuition at public colleges, paid sick and family leave, raising the minimum wage to $15 and prison reform. He also called for a “full-employment economy” and vowed to generate jobs by rebuilding our “crumbling infrastructure.”

“So, the next time that you hear me attacked as a socialist — like tomorrow,” Sanders said, provoking laughs from the audience, “remember this: I don’t believe government should take over, you know, the grocery store down the street. But I do believe that the middle class and the working class of this country, who produce the wealth of this country, deserve a decent standard of living.”


4. Sanders believes America has made serious foreign policy mistakes.

The last part of Sanders’ speech was focused on foreign policy. In it, he vowed not to remake “the failed foreign policy decisions of the past.”

“I will never send our sons and daughters to war under false pretense or pretenses about dubious battles with no end in sight,” Sanders declared.

Sanders went on to reiterate his longstanding opinion that the Iraq War, which Clinton voted for as a member of the U.S. Senate, was one of these mistakes.

“Unilateral military action should be a last resort, not a first resort,” he said. “Ill-conceived military decisions such as the invasion of Iraq can wreak far-reaching devastation and destabilization over regions for decades.”

Sanders has faced questions about his relative lack of foreign policy experience compared to Clinton. By making the argument our past policies have failed, he seems poised to use Clinton’s experience as a former senator and secretary of state against her.


5. The Bernie doctrine

Sanders also detailed his plan to combat the jihadist group Islamic State, which is also known as ISIS. 

He outlined a multilateral approach to military action, calling for the creation of “a new organization like NATO to confront the security threats of the 21st century.” He also argued America should take a supporting role in the fight against ISIS and let Muslim nations lead the effort.

“The fight against ISIS is a struggle for the soul of Islam,” Sanders said. “Countering violent extremism and destroying ISIS must be done primarily by Muslim nations with the strong support of their global partners.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/the-top-5-takeaways-from-bernie-sanders-big-014821822.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/the-top-5-takeaways-from-bernie-sanders-big-014821822.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on November 21, 2015, 01:46:45 AM
Quote
Sanders repeatedly referred to F.D.R. and claimed his policies are similar and face similar opposition from the “ruling class.”
FDR was probably the worst president we've ever had. His "new deal" had people starving to death.
Quote
“In other words, real freedom must include economic security,” said Sanders. “That was Roosevelt’s vision 70 years ago.
Yes and who is going to pay for it?

In better news
REUTERS 5 DAY ROLLING POLL:
[Sleezebag]: 38.8%...
CARSON: 14.7%...
RUBIO: 10.3%...
CRUZ: 7.1%... MORE...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 01, 2015, 08:52:48 PM

Why Donald [Sleezebag] is impervious to fact-checking
 10 / 25 The Week Paul Waldman


-is-impervious-to-fact-checking/ar-AAfSEYX?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout]http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-donald-[Sleezebag]-is-impervious-to-fact-checking/ar-AAfSEYX?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-donald-[Sleezebag)

Well, it seems that this web page is highlight and copy resistant. It's a short op/ed piece, and it doesn't take long to read the article, and it's description of the way things normally work. Politicians pander, the media fact checks and reports, the politicians blush and reduce their rhetoric, potential voters factor that in.

[Sleezebag] has a different dynamic. His base would rather believe him. He is rewarded for defying the biased media.

........................

Actually, I happened to watch that episode of Meet the Press. First [Sleezebag] asserted that he witnessed Moslems in NJ celebrating 9/11. When confronted he changed his story to he saw it on TV, and backed that up with he has 100s of tweets from people who saw the same thing.

That was over 14 years ago. I figure it's possible that a number of people, including [Sleezebag],  may have been confused about the byline, perhaps confusing Jordan and Jersey.

If he really saw it on TV, a man of his resources should be able to prove it shortly. He has people looking into it.

So... we shall see.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on December 02, 2015, 12:14:42 PM
That was over 14 years ago. I figure it's possible that a number of people, including [Sleezebag],  may have been confused about the byline, perhaps confusing Jordan and Jersey.

That seems the most likely.

Actually, if he had corrected it to Mid-east arabs, that would actually help his anti-immigration rhetoric.  "Our Muslims are decent and loyal Americans, but the foreign ones usually aren't, so we need to keep them out until they've been checked."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on December 02, 2015, 02:01:17 PM
The one tweet that Ann Coulter posted basically sums up the election.
This was just after the Paris slaughter.
"They can have the election if they like but [Sleezebag] just became president."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 02, 2015, 04:52:16 PM
Quote
McCain: Tea Party “appeals to the bad angels of our nature”
Meredith Shiner  Political correspondent  December 02, 2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/bHdfgJAOvfUn7hhELAcibQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/e1d4ae10caba8e50205ee1681002efe9/tumblr_inline_nyqog3sszi1smb3xa_1280.jpg)
Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., is surrounded by reporters as he arrives on Capitol Hill in Washington on Tuesday. (Photo: J. Scott Applewhite/AP)



Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., would not criticize current GOP presidential frontrunner Donald [Sleezebag] outright, no matter how hard reporters tried at a media breakfast here in Washington Wednesday. But he did warn that the tea party movement is in part fueled by appealing to “the bad angels of our nature” and that candidates who do not correct racist sentiments or untrue statements on the trail are “complicit” in propagating them.

Speaking at a breakfast hosted by the Christian Science Monitor, McCain said that much of the anti-establishment sentiment against Republicans from their conservative base is “justified” because those voters have not seen the sort of economic benefits they have expected to see since the crash of 2008. He noted that only “very wealthy people have done very well.” Yet he also offered several candid diagnoses of what he characterized as a darker side of the elements that have taken over the GOP and propelled non-politician candidates like [Sleezebag] or neurosurgeon Ben Carson to the top of the field.

“If you go back to 2010, when the tea party became a real factor at least in certain segments of the political landscape, it’s a reflection of frustration and anger that people feel,” McCain said. “A lot of that is bred by a poor economy, as far as its effect on average American citizens, and a lot of it is justified because they have not seen a betterment of their lives that they had hoped to expect.”

McCain, the 2008 GOP presidential nominee, then added a pretty serious addendum to that widely-accepted explanation of the tea party’s roots: “I think also – I probably shouldn’t say this – but some of this appeals to the bad angels of our nature rather than the better angels of our nature.”

When he was campaigning for president in 2008 , McCain caught flack from the conservative base — and even attendees at his own events — for defending now-President Barack Obama against charges from town hall attendees that the Democrat was Arab, un-American and a “terrorist.”

“He’s a decent family man [and] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what this campaign’s all about. He’s not [an Arab],“ McCain said at the time.

When asked whether more Republican candidates in the 2016 race should follow his example and not let incendiary comments stand, McCain adamantly defended his approach in 2008 and urged others to adopt it. Those who do not correct wrong views are “complicit,” said McCain, and will ultimately lose, even if they win electorally.

“In my view, if you allow those things to be said –or not, in the case of beating up a protestor – and let that go unresponded to, you are complicit,” McCain said. “You have to do what’s right. No matter what the cost is, you have to do what’s right. Otherwise you will lose in the long run, even if you win, you lose, speaking as the loser. You just must have a level of political discourse.”

It’s not clear that those in the current crop of GOP contenders will heed his advice. But McCain’s comments provided a reminder of how far the Republican party has shifted since McCain last ran for president and how antiquated, at least for now, his take might seem to those in the movement that now dominates the GOP.

Even so, McCain — who faces Senate reelection in 2016 — spent much of the breakfast questioning Obama’s leadership and strategy in attacking the Islamic State in Syria. And he told reporters that he plans to vote this week in the Senate to repeal Obamacare, though he conceded “discomfort” with supporting a package that would roll back Medicaid expansion, which was implemented in Arizona by its governor and legislature.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/mccain-tea-party-appeals-to-the-bad-angels-of-163046617.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/mccain-tea-party-appeals-to-the-bad-angels-of-163046617.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on December 02, 2015, 09:20:30 PM
Quote
http://dcgazette.com/donald-[Sleezebag]-right-this-video-report-shows-group-of-islamists-holding-a-pre-planned-911-celebration-on-a-rooftop/
Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
 Paris Swade 12/02/2015
28ShareTweetPinterest
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
This video from September 16, 2001 shows a news broadcast by New York City affiliate WCBS-TV. It features a long-term reporter named Pablo Guzman. He is talking about the federal government investigating claims in a Jersey City apartment building that reports that residents had a rooftop celebration of the 9/11 attacks.

This video was posted on YouTube on Monday by “Citizen Video.”


I was watching CNN myself back then. [Sleezebag] was right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 03, 2015, 02:39:58 AM
The one tweet that Ann Coulter posted basically sums up the election.
This just after the Paris slaughter.
"They can have the election if they like but [Sleezebag] just became president."

I would dearly and truly love to believe that the next president will not be Hillary.

- But I've been disappointed before in presidential elections and premature predictions.

How many presidential electors are actually committed to [Sleezebag] so far? Too soon?
How many delegates does he have so far for the national convention? Too soon?
But he's really popular! More popular than Bush or Clinton, almost like Ross Perot was... practically inevitable.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 03, 2015, 02:44:40 AM
Oh!  But remember how popular the real George Bush was a year out in the wake of the First Oil Crusade?  No WAY that can go wrong...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 03, 2015, 04:48:23 AM
Quote
http://dcgazette.com/donald-[Sleezebag]-right-this-video-report-shows-group-of-islamists-holding-a-pre-planned-911-celebration-on-a-rooftop/
Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
 Paris Swade 12/02/2015
28ShareTweetPinterest
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
This video from September 16, 2001 shows a news broadcast by New York City affiliate WCBS-TV. It features a long-term reporter named Pablo Guzman. He is talking about the federal government investigating claims in a Jersey City apartment building that reports that residents had a rooftop celebration of the 9/11 attacks.

This video was posted on YouTube on Monday by “Citizen Video.”


I was watching CNN myself back then. [Sleezebag] was right.


I was working that day and limited to radio. I don't recall this story.

Well, there's quite a discrepancy between 8 and "thousands", but it sounds like he's merely exaggerating,  not making stuff up. Exaggeration is hardly a first for a politician on a stump.

I'd be chagrined whether I was [Sleezebag] or the Media, but I think the Media loses more credibility over this one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on December 03, 2015, 01:39:46 PM
Quote
http://dcgazette.com/donald-[Sleezebag]-right-this-video-report-shows-group-of-islamists-holding-a-pre-planned-911-celebration-on-a-rooftop/
Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
 Paris Swade 12/02/2015
28ShareTweetPinterest
Donald [Sleezebag] Right! This VIDEO Report Shows Group of Islamists Holding a Pre-Planned 9/11 Celebration on a Rooftop…
This video from September 16, 2001 shows a news broadcast by New York City affiliate WCBS-TV. It features a long-term reporter named Pablo Guzman. He is talking about the federal government investigating claims in a Jersey City apartment building that reports that residents had a rooftop celebration of the 9/11 attacks.

This video was posted on YouTube on Monday by “Citizen Video.”


I was watching CNN myself back then. [Sleezebag] was right.


I was working that day and limited to radio. I don't recall this story.

Well, there's quite a discrepancy between 8 and "thousands", but it sounds like he's merely exaggerating,  not making stuff up. Exaggeration is hardly a first for a politician on a stump.

I'd be chagrined whether I was [Sleezebag] or the Media, but I think the Media loses more credibility over this one.


The report said the building was "swarming" with suspects, so I can even understand thinking it was a lot more than 8. 

However, that doesn't change the dangerous tone [Sleezebag] is striking that Muslims are patently bad.  Some Christians are looking lovely in the wake of the Planned Parenthood shooting as well. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 03, 2015, 06:56:39 PM
Quote
The Bernie revolution: He’s not going anywhere
Andy Kroll for Yahoo News  December 03, 2015


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/_0yHFYFevhOSAQJr_VnKDQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/7ab016cbafc6bffe7a12295eac632dfc/tumblr_inline_nyr8wt8Tir1tiuhmr_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders speaking at George Mason University in October. (Photo: Alex Wong/Getty Images)



It’s a drizzly Wednesday evening in October and the presidential campaign has descended on a college campus in suburban Virginia. The line of students begins way out in the parking lot, a procession of flannel and hoodies and trendy rain boots winding up the stairs and through the doors of the campus rec center, snaking down polished hallways until reaching the gymnasium. Attendees scribble their names and email addresses on pledge cards and drop them in a box on the way in. Young volunteers in campaign T-shirts corral the unwieldy masses, and the late arrivals plead for a seat inside.

We’ve seen this hundreds of times before: The gymnasium filled to the rafters, the handwritten banners and the phalanx of TV cameras, the klieg lights aimed at center stage, the rock music blaring as the candidate makes his or her entrance. But the setting of tonight’s rally, George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., isn’t some hotbed of ivory tower liberalism on fire for the latest Democratic rock star. If anything, George Mason is known as a bastion of libertarianism and a magnet for major donations by right-leaning luminaries such as the billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch. The headliner of tonight’s student town hall, the object of affection for all these college kids, isn’t quite whom you’d expect either: a rumpled, irascible democratic socialist from the state of Vermont named Bernie Sanders.

Take a look at him: Sen. Bernard Sanders, age 74, is not young, handsome or polished like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama were when they ran for president. He doesn’t care much for working rope lines or rah-rah chants. The closest thing he has to an official slogan is the legally required fine print on his website and campaign lit: “PAID FOR BY BERNIE 2016 (not the billionaires).”

His stump speeches steer clear of the typical campaign pabulum. No city-on-a-hill imagery. No spit-shined paeans to the “greatest country on earth.” Sanders prefers to rattle off one grim fact after another about the dire state of our union—2.2 million people incarcerated; $1 trillion in student debt; the vast gap between top 1 percent and everyone else. His transitions — “Now, there’s another issue I want to discuss” — send Ted Sorensen spinning in his grave. If Obama campaigned in poetry, then Sanders employs the prose of a Union Square pamphleteer telling anyone who’ll listen all the reasons why our country is going to pot.

And the college kids — they love it. At George Mason, they pump their fists and leap out of their seats and scream “I love you, Bernie!” They love him because he doesn’t sugarcoat it, doesn’t coddle them. As he rattles off the bad news, many students boo but others cheer; some cheer and boo. It’s almost as if they can’t help but applaud a candidate who has the nerve to give it to them straight.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/gjuzdDvapIzhQQPeOCCXcg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/5d1bdaff5e2905e52617b57f47c2733a/tumblr_inline_nyr87hAtWt1tiuhmr_1280.jpg)
Sanders greeting students after a town hall meeting at George Mason University. (Photo: Joshua Roberts/Reuters)


No matter the setting or the audience, Sanders’ fundamental message is the same: The political system is broken, corrupt. Passing this or that new policy won’t fix it. In the mold of populists past, Sanders wants to tear it all down and rebuild it anew.

***

When Sanders kicked off his presidential bid in May, his own allies were perplexed. He wouldn’t get within a mile of Hillary Clinton. Technically, he wasn’t even a member of the Democratic Party. (Sanders identifies as an Independent in the U.S. Senate.) But just as Donald [Sleezebag] improbably stole the limelight among the Republican faithful after entering the race in June, for the Democrats the summer of 2015 was the Summer of Bernie. He drew huge crowds everywhere he went — 10,000 in Madison, 20,000 in Boston, 27,500 in Los Angeles. His advance team stopped booking reception halls and started booking sports arenas. The people loved it. The numbers proved it. Feel the Bern.

In a span of months, Sanders erased Clinton’s double-digit lead in polls conducted of Iowa and New Hampshire voters. He announced in October that his campaign had raised $26 million in the previous three months — the same as Clinton, despite running a vastly leaner campaign and relying almost entirely on small-dollar donors. Several weeks later, Sanders told supporters that he’d received contributions from 750,000 individuals, a figure surpassing Barack Obama’s tally at the same point in his historic first presidential bid. And Sanders had gotten there more or less organically: For the first five months of his campaign, Sanders didn’t air a single TV ad. (Clinton’s campaign had aired more than 4,800 television ads through early October.)


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Pcf4oqcjhzhc2yg.8jo7Cg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/76506c074c2d270b9bfd9d3c29e3759a/tumblr_inline_nyr92urjfA1tiuhmr_1280.jpg)
Sanders greets supporters at a campaign rally outside the New Hampshire statehouse in November. (Photo: Brian Snyder/Reuters)


Sanders is now on the air in Iowa and New Hampshire, and while his polling numbers have started to level off, they climbed steadily from summer into fall.

There’s nothing new about insurgent candidacies emerging from what their supporters like to call “the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.” But in elections past — from George McGovern and Ted Kennedy to Bill Bradley and Howard Dean — they haven’t had much appeal beyond that well-educated, affluent demographic. What’s fueled Sanders’ rise and carried him past the point of vanity candidate is that he’s resonated with other voting blocs. White working-class voters  like his vocal opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Retirees perk up when he defends Social Security and Medicare while denouncing pharmaceutical companies and the price of prescription drugs. Students take note of his call for affordable education. “Bernie is the first candidate to be brutally honest in acknowledging the fact that it is time for the government to stop making money off of student debt,” said Sophia Ansari, a student speaker at Sanders’ George Mason event.

Sanders may not walk into Philadelphia next July as the next Democratic nominee, but he has attracted a broad enough base of support to make Clinton take him seriously. The Democratic debate in October was surely the first in recent memory to feature two candidates arguing over the definition of American capitalism. More important than Sanders’ chances of winning the nomination may be the underlying forces driving his unexpected rise. Who are the Berniacs and Sanderistas, as his fans are known, and what do they want? What’s so appealing to them about a grumpy, 74-year-old democratic socialist?


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/D5YxyuP4mUMJkW.cS13tUw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/8065ebeedcdef4980518b4fe5b891ed6/tumblr_inline_nyr8d5fXzB1tiuhmr_1280.jpg)
A Sanders supporter prepares a table at the Central Iowa Democrats Fall Barbecue in Ames, Iowa, last month. (Photo: Mark Kauzlarich/Reuters)


I spent several weeks following Sanders on the campaign trail and interviewing dozens of his supporters, Berniacs of all ages, races, ideologies and backgrounds. I met a man who had traveled from Finland to see Sanders in the flesh. I spoke to a family that had attended almost every single Sanders campaign event in the state of New Hampshire. I learned of a woman with terminal cancer who loved Sanders so much she’d decided to spend her final months volunteering for his campaign.

No two Berniacs are the same. Each discovered Sanders in his or her own way, and each has his or her own reasons for feeling the Bern. But what unites them is something larger, a deep rejection of a government that doesn’t tackle their everyday needs and problems. You hear a version of this on the Republican side, where [Sleezebag], for all his bullying and lies and vitriol, has tapped into a similar populist vein that cares more about offshoring American jobs, corporate mergers and too-big-to-fail banks than most of the rhetoric used by the current crop of presidential candidates. The Sanders-[Sleezebag] crossover is real: Out on the trail, I lost track of how many times Berniacs brought up [Sleezebag] as proof of something larger at play. One supporter I met in Nashua told me: “I’m kinda looking for a [Sleezebag] versus Sanders.”

***

To live in New Hampshire is to be spoiled when it comes to presidential politics. The state’s first-in-the-nation primary status means the candidates spend inordinate amounts of time and campaign money there, and its residents can rattle off all the times they’ve seen “Hillary” or “Jeb” or “Kasich.” A friend of mine who lives in New Hampshire talks about “collecting” candidates like a kid collects baseball cards.

For decades, Sanders has been as the congressman — and later the senator — next door; before that, he was the widely known mayor of Vermont’s biggest city. There’s a familiarity to the way the people talk about him, a recognition that figures into Sanders’ strong polling numbers in the state. (RealClearPolitics’ polling average shows Sanders tied with Clinton, factoring in a margin of error.) People I spoke to expressed some surprise that Sanders had decided to run, but they soon recognized that the Bernie running for president was the same Bernie they’ve known all these years.

I caught up with Sanders during a two-day swing through New Hampshire at a senior center in Manchester. Standing in the corner of a wood-floored multi-purpose room opposite a Bingo board, kitchen and plaque listing the names of residents who’d rolled 300s in the Wii Bowling League, Sanders focused heavily on the nitty-gritty details of Social Security, chained consumer price index (CPI), protecting Medicare and the exorbitant cost of prescription drugs in the U.S. compared to Canada and Germany — issues all too relevant to most of the roughly three dozen audience members in the room. A burly man named Rick Maynard rose to his feet and thanked Sanders for the time he’d spent in New Hampshire, well before his presidential run, working with citizen activists and keeping people updated on the latest happenings on Capitol Hill.


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Bernie Sanders shortly after his surprise win as mayor of Burlington, Vt., in 1981. (Photo: Donna Light/AP)


I spoke with Maynard afterward. A 58-year-old unionist with the with International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Maynard is a burly fellow, with chest hair peeking out of his T-shirt and “BERNIE” buttons pinned to his hat. He told me he was one of two people in the state who brief state legislators on trade issues. “Fair trade, not free trade,” he stressed. He praised Sanders’ consistency on the issue over the years, including his opposition to the TPP agreement. “He’s saying the same thing, possibly a little bit better because he’s got a bit more experience at it, but it’s the same,” Maynard said. “He doesn’t put the finger up and figure whichever way the polls are going.”

As for Clinton, Maynard referred me to a CNN story that found 45 different instances in which Clinton, as secretary of state, had praised the TPP. (As a candidate, Clinton came out against it.) “She flip-flopped. She kinda swayed in the wind,” Maynard said. “My concerns with Hillary are I don’t trust her, really.”

I heard that sentiment a lot about Clinton. Sanders, by contrast, is held up as a model of consistency and authenticity. He’s been giving the same wonky speeches for 30 years, and now it’s paying off by proving that he cares. In a world of hypocrisy, he is anything but a hypocrite. Long-time political columnist Walter Shapiro, who profiled Sanders 30 years ago when he was mayor of Burlington, puts it well, telling me: “Bernie Sanders was an angry man in 1985, and grumpy. He’s the same guy today.”


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Hillary Clinton greeting Iowans at Iowa State University in November. (Photo: Alex Wong/Getty Images)


The other theme that comes up at Sanders events is an appreciation of his granular focus on the rising costs of getting by in America today. In the parking lot before a press conference at a local union hall, a third-generation union member named Zack Smith, 35, brings up — of all things — Sanders’ effort to reduce debit card transaction fees. “It’s the average person’s issues he brings up,” Smith said. He dismissed the notion that reforming debit card fees — an issue most visibly championed by then comedian (and future senator) Al Franken in his satirical 1999 campaign book Why Not Me? — wasn’t a winning issue with voters. “It is a big deal,” he insisted. “Four dollars and 52 cents is the average transaction for an ATM. That is absolutely ridiculous. People take out $20 a lot of the time, and 20 percent of that goes to an ATM fee?”

At the Manchester senior center, an older married couple, Michael and Doris Manning, talked with me about Sanders’ ideas on issues that intimately affect retirees and senior citizens. The Mannings are both 66; Doris has gray-blonde hair and wore Jack-o-Lantern earrings, and Michael wore a T-shirt that read “The Snoring He-Beast.”

“Since we’ve been retired now and on Social Security ourselves,” Doris said, “we know what he’s talking about.”

“It used to be a problem we were going to have to deal with someday,” Michael said. “Well, someday is now. And we find ourselves in exactly the types of situations he was describing.”

Doris said she was prescribed a medication that would cost her $265 a month. She couldn’t afford it on her and Michael’s income, so she opted not to take it.

“Same thing with my shingles shot,” Michael said. “For some reason it falls into the wrong category of drug. It’s a class B or whatever. Because it’s not covered, it’s 200-something dollars out of pocket. OK, I’m just gonna take my chances and hope I’m one of the two in three that don’t get it.” He continued, “You have those difficult choices to make. That’s why we tend to support people who tend to support us.”

What was their reaction to Sanders deciding to run for president? I asked.


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Sanders supporters during a campaign rally at Cleveland State University in Ohio. (Photo: Aaron Josefczyk/Reuters)


“I was surprised,” Michael Manning said. “I thought that his views were too inconsistent with the prevailing sentiments in Congress and that he’d didn’t stand a chance.” He went on, “But this campaign year with [Sleezebag] and all the other outsiders is going to prove me wrong across the board. I attribute that to a large extent because people are just disgusted with the prevailing views that are out there.”

“It’s nice to be wrong,” Doris chimed in.

“In this case,” Michael agreed, “it’s nice to be wrong.”

***

At the other end of the age spectrum, Sanders’ fandom among young people has given rise to an unlikely nickname for the senator: the “Betty White of American politics.” Yet his campaign is anything but old-school. Numerous alums of Barack Obama’s digital media team work for Sanders, mimicking and improving on Obama’s use of technology and social media to reach and enlist young people who increasingly spend their days online.

Nearly every Bernie fan under the age of 40 that I met said they’d first learned about Sanders online, from his campaign website or Facebook page or live-trolling on Twitter during the second GOP debate, or they kept tabs on his campaign via social media. “On social media, on Facebook,” said Nardos Assefa, a University of Virginia student I met outside the George Mason rally, “you see little snippets of videos that are shared from Bernie’s speeches because he’s funny, he says things that are important to people.” The videos her friends are constantly flagging could be anything from Sanders’ denunciation of the school-to-prison pipeline to his delightfully awkward appearance on Ellen DeGeneres’ show.

“When I scroll through my news feed,” Assefa told me, “it’s, like, Bernie. I don’t see any others.”

What they’re seeing on Facebook and Twitter and in their inboxes stands in many ways as a rebuke of Obama. The Obama brand, if you will, was historic, aspirational, feel-good: “hope” and “change you can believe in.” Sanders is the anti-brand. He’s the “normcore” candidate. He’s not cool, he’s earnest. And that earnestness is in part what draws today’s generation of young voters — who were in elementary school when Obama first ran for president — to the Sanders campaign. These are the late teens and 20-somethings who grew up on “Parks and Rec,” who watch Stephen Colbert. They’re not all about irony; for them, it’s OK to care.

And it’s OK to think bigger than you’ve been led to believe. After the town hall, I met a GMU sophomore named Faith Huddleston Anderson in a “Feel the Bern” T-shirt. In Sanders, Huddleston Anderson hears a politician stretching the limits of what she’d ever thought possible in the lives of people like herself. “Everything he said are things that I’ve thought in my head but never said out loud because it’s such an outrageous thought,” she said. “The idea of college being affordable is such a wild thought.”

She went on, “Us just having the idea in our head of free tuition feels a lot better to reach for than just reaching for, ‘Oh, we should get some reduced prices.’ I’ve always been told college shouldn’t be this expensive. But I’ve never heard anyone say it will not be.”

***

The host said to look for the house with the solar panels on the roof, but it was dark when I arrived and I couldn’t see much of anything, except for the fleet of cars lining the cul-de-sac in a pleasant neighborhood a half-hour’s drive north of Washington. It was the night of the much-anticipated first Democratic presidential debate. The Sanders campaign’s handy interactive map shows an impressive 4,000 watch parties around the country. I’ve chosen to watch the debate — and the debate-watchers — at the home of Hank Rappaport and Gina Angiola, both doctors and both dyed-in-the-wool liberals. Books by Greg Palast, Naomi Klein and Noam Chomsky line the shelves; I notice a handwritten note listing the channel numbers for Current TV and Jon Stewart.

The CNN online feed on Hank’s laptop in the basement keeps freezing (“Must be the DNC,” someone jokes), so a bunch of us relocate to Hank and Gina’s living room, plopping down on couches and folding chairs and the floor to watch on the big TV. People cheer and holler after each of Sanders’ turns to speak. They fall silent and sometimes jeer when Clinton talks. They’re unsure how to react when Sanders delivers the line of the night, telling Clinton that the “American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails!” And unlike the pundits who fill the TV screen once the debate ends, they believe that Sanders won the debate hands down, despite a strong showing by Clinton.


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Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders speak during the Democratic presidential debate on Oct. 13 in Las Vegas. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


Afterward, we sit around talking about Sanders and what drew the people in the room to his campaign. The attendees skew middle-aged and older, and several have worked for progressive causes and candidates for years. Michael Rubinstein says he’s worked his whole life as a volunteer and as a paid staffer lobbying and grassroots organizing for social justice issues. After a career in medicine, Gina Angiola, one of our hosts, organized for Howard Dean in 2003, was a precinct coordinator for a liberal Maryland state senator and ran the Montgomery County office of Rep. Donna Edwards (D-Md.). Angiola describes herself and the other Bernie supporters like her as “the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.”

These are, in other words, the people you’d expect to support Sanders. They remember the wilderness of the Clinton years. They believe it was the Democratic Party insiders — not the candidate’s own flaws — that took down Howard Dean in 2004. They supported a single payer health care system as part of Obamacare. They have mixed feelings about Obama’s presidency, and they wished Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., had run for president. They are the bloc of Democratic voters that can’t stomach the establishment, and so they seek out and rally behind more liberal alternatives, anyone from George McGovern in 1972 to Howard Dean in 2004 to Obama or even Dennis Kucinich in 2008. And now Bernie.

Rubinstein, the social justice activist, said he dismissed Sanders initially, but felt drawn to the senator after reading about the huge crowds turning out for him this summer and seeing 100,000 people tune in for a digital town hall he hosted in July. Sanders, Rubinstein said, reminds him of the Howard Beale character in the movie Network. “He’s the guy who’s telling you to put your head out the window and say ‘we’re mad as hell and not taking it anymore,’” he said. “He’s tapped into this kind of anger.”

I asked Gina Angiola, the host, how she got turned onto Bernie, and she nods to her husband, Hank. Although Gina is the political junkie, in this case Hank found Bernie first, and suggested hosting one of the Sanders campaign’s telecasted town halls in July. Hank loves Sanders’ “fire and energy and anger,” and one line of Sanders’ sticks with him: “He said, ‘Obama’s great, but he did one major thing wrong: He built up a huge grassroots organization to get him elected, and on the day he took office he said, ‘Thank you all very much. I’ll take it from here.’”

Murmurs of agreement filled the living room. “That’s a fabulous line,” Gina said.

The thing is, it’s a line not wholly intended for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. The Michael Rubinsteins and Gina Angiolas of the world are already onboard with Sanders’ political revolution. It’s a line instead aimed at the masses of people out there — Democrats, independents, you name it — who feel the deep rejection of make-believe politics and dysfunctional government. People who feel the fear and anger that both Sanders and [Sleezebag] are tapping into, who want an antipolitician, a candidate above it all.

“The [Sleezebag] phenomenon and Bernie people are really sick of the political machinery in both parties,” Angiola told me when we spoke by phone a few days after the debate. “I think that the fact that [Sleezebag], Carson and Sanders are doing so well is a reflection of how disgusted people are with the political system. And they want people to talk straight. Stop mincing words.”

The clearest distillation of Sanders’ appeal came near the end of the first Democratic debate. “I believe that the power of corporate America, the power of Wall Street, the power of the drug companies, the power of the corporate media is so great,” he said, “that the only way we really transform America and do the things that the middle class and working class desperately need is through a political revolution, when millions of people begin to come together and stand up and say: Our government is going to work for all of us, not just a handful of billionaires.” In other words, Sanders wants power to challenge power, to challenge JPMorgan and Comcast and GlaxoSmithKline. His pitch is that he needs working people, the Berniacs and Sanderistas, to have any hope of making that a reality.


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Of course, it’s easy to dismiss such talk — “Bernie, I don’t think the revolution’s going to come,” quipped former senator and then Democratic candidate Jim Webb — but it’s impossible to argue that Sanders isn’t tapping into something larger, a sentiment and an argument that may not decide who wins the Democratic nomination but could very well offer a glimpse at the future direction of the Democratic Party.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/the-bernie-revolution-hes-not-going-anywhere-100050258.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/the-bernie-revolution-hes-not-going-anywhere-100050258.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 04, 2015, 05:58:48 PM
Quote
Christie is getting his moment. The question is whether he can make it last.
Matt Bai  National Political Columnist  December 03, 2015



Back in college, when he was contemplating a career in public office, Chris Christie got some advice from a political science professor that he never forgot.

“He told me, ‘If you’re gonna run for public office, you’d better become a good listener,’” Christie told me this week. “‘The only way people follow you is if you listen to them. And a leader without followers is just a guy out for a walk.’”

By that standard, you could say that Christie’s presidential campaign, for most of this year anyway, has been a long stroll in the park. Damaged by the infamous bridge scandal in New Jersey, his approval ratings at home cratering, Christie hasn’t come near double digits in the polling from New Hampshire, where he’s spent more time this year than any other candidate.

For a guy who was once the party’s biggest draw and whose potential candidacy loomed over the rest of the Republican field in 2012, the biggest humiliation came just last month, when he found himself excluded from the main debate stage in Milwaukee, outpolled by the likes of Rand Paul and Mike Huckabee.

I asked Christie, as he sat across from me Tuesday in a conference room at Manchester’s Saint Anselm College, if he’d been surprised by his lack of success throughout the summer and early fall.

“Frustrated, more than anything else,” he said, nodding. “But you can’t let that frustration dominate you. Then you become someone who’s unhappy in this process. And I never wanted to be someone who would do this as an unhappy person. You know, I enjoy doing this. And enjoying it makes me better at it. When I’m enjoying myself, I’m better.

“It’s hard,” Christie admitted. “But you know what? What I kept saying to myself is ‘I know I’m good at this. So I’ve just got to be patient with myself.’ And part of having the early success that I did is that it runs counter to that. So you have to grow up.”

Christie could afford to reflect a little, this being his best week as a candidate, hands down. He was a changed man from the reeling governor I wrote about for my first Political World column almost two years ago, when he gave me his first interview after the Fort Lee bridge scandal erupted, and more sure-footed than the guy who’d sat with me in his kitchen on the eve of his first trip to New Hampshire last April.

Christie’s campaign got a perverse boost, at least in terms of media attention, from the terrorist attacks in Paris, which breathed new urgency into the intelligence and national security issues he likes to talk about as a former prosecutor. (This week’s mass shooting in San Bernardino seems likely to intensify the focus on domestic security, even absent a definitive link to any terrorist cell.) Then came the surprising and much-coveted endorsement of the New Hampshire Union Leader last weekend.

Meanwhile, Christie’s marathon town hall meetings, a hallmark of his best days as New Jersey’s governor, are starting to take on the feel of John McCain’s legendary performances in 2000, when the Arizona senator surged from nowhere to win the state by 18 points. Clips of Christie’s emotive riffs about his mother’s death, or about his fear that his wife might have been killed in the twin towers, have been going viral for weeks.

Of course, none of this has yet translated into any sustained rise in support. (A PPP poll out today shows Christie leaping into double digits in New Hampshire, the first indication that the Union Leader endorsement may have some influence.) And even Christie seemed to be wondering if he was finally about to break out, or if he was just taking his turn under the lights like everyone else.

Voters in New Hampshire have been rifling through non-[Sleezebag] candidates this year like promising finds on the clearance rack at Nordstrom. Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson, John Kasich, and more recently Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, have all had their moments in the dressing-room mirror, and all have been returned to the “maybe” pile (except Walker, who became the campaign’s first “discard”).

The state’s most influential Republicans remain divided, and despite all the jitters about [Sleezebag], there’s been no lasting, perceptible shift toward one rival candidate or another.

Something’s definitely happening for Christie in New Hampshire right now. The question, in this strange election season, is what, exactly, that something is, and whether we’ll still be talking about it in a couple of weeks.

*****

The best way to think about the Republican primary contest right now, if you haven’t entirely given up trying to make sense of it already, is as the inverse, roughly, of what we saw in 2012.

At about this time four years ago, you will recall, the clear establishment candidate was Mitt Romney. But the Republican electorate had never really warmed to Romney, and after the tea party takeover of Congress in 2010, all the energy was with the grassroots ideologues who were determined to derail him with a candidate of their own.

The problem for the anti-establishment Republicans is that they were anti-establishment, and as such, they spent an awful lot of time and energy fighting viciously over who that candidate should be. By January, as the Iowa caucuses approached, Romney was topping out at the mid-30s in most polls, which made him eminently beatable, but the rest of the Republican electorate was almost evenly divided among Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul.

In the end, Santorum played Romney to a draw in Iowa and got a huge boost, but it was Paul who came closest in New Hampshire, and then it was Gingrich who won outright in South Carolina. The insurgent candidates split their delegates, and Romney rolled to the nomination.

Turn that scenario inside out, and you could be looking at 2016. Now it’s [Sleezebag], the celebrity heir to the tea party insurgency, who’s consistently polling in the mid- to high 20s nationally — impressive for a populist outsider, far less so for a party frontrunner. Carson and Cruz, vying for support of the same disaffected factions, lag behind.

None of which would pose an insurmountable challenge for the governing wing of the party, at the end of the day, if it had an obvious standard-bearer. The problem is that in a field that has now narrowed to a mere 14 entrants, there are at least four — Rubio, Bush, Christie and Kasich — who can be considered serious establishment candidates.

In New Hampshire, where the governing wing will almost certainly have to make its stand, those four candidates have been bunched together (with Rubio slightly out in front), dividing among themselves all the local support and media attention a candidate needs to really separate himself.

Some analysts look at this situation and conclude that [Sleezebag] is almost certain to be the nominee, in the same way that Romney easily vanquished his divided rivals. But here’s what I think they’re missing: Generally speaking, establishments don’t behave the way tea parties do.

Eventually, the party loyalists who make up an establishment tend to come together and coalesce around a likely winner. That’s why we call them establishments.

So the race in New Hampshire right now is all about who can persuade the state’s mainstream electorate that he’s the guy who can unify the party and stop [Sleezebag]. That’s why Rubio is trotting out the endorsements of his fellow senators. That’s why Kasich is attacking [Sleezebag] and casting himself as the one candidate who has the brass to take on the bully.

And that’s why the Union Leader endorsement would seem to matter this year, even if newspaper endorsements generally are about as useful as the classifieds. Here’s the most influential conservative institution in the state giving its stamp of approval to Christie, at a moment when a lot of Republican voters are anxious for someone to emerge from the pack.


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Chris Christie at a meeting this week in Manchester, N.H. (Photo: Jim Cole/AP)


Christie’s moment is a long time coming, and it says something about his political skill and sheer persistence. When he entered the race formally back in June, a lot of my colleagues in the media — and a lot of his colleagues in the party — had already written him off. All anyone remembered about Christie, at that point, was the bridge thing.

In the parlance of politics, his “favorables” were underwater, meaning that more people had a bad impression of Christie personally than a good one. Being well liked is kind of important in politics, unless your last name is [Sleezebag] or Clinton.

Undeterred, Christie set out to do what he does best, which is to reach voters on an emotional level. He’s hosted 36 town halls in New Hampshire since June, and while that hasn’t done much to lift the poll numbers most people look at, those numbers tell only part of the story.

By the middle of last month, according to a poll conducted by WBUR, Boston’s NPR station, Christie’s favorable rating in New Hampshire was up to 47 percent (from 39 percent in mid-September), while the number of people who retained an unfavorable impression of him had dropped from 39 percent to 33 percent. By contrast, during that same time, Bush and Kasich had seen their favorable numbers drop to the point where they were both underwater.

More remarkably, the latest PPP poll from New Hampshire now shows Christie with the highest favorability rating of any candidate. More than 60 percent of the state’s voters have a favorable impression of him, compared with 22 percent who don’t.

What this means to Christie is that, in New Hampshire at least, the bridge scandal no longer defines him.

“Listen, it will always be a part of my résumé,” he told me this week. “It will always be a part of my experience. I’m not happy about that, but it’s the fact. It happened on my watch. I’ve got to be accountable for it. On the other hand, it’s certainly nothing that’s front of mind anymore, and for a long time it was front of mind, for me and for others.”

What’s front of mind for Christie now, in the wake of the Paris attacks and perhaps San Bernardino too, is terrorism. At a town hall at a firehouse outside Concord Monday night, where by my rough estimate he drew more than 250 people, Christie spoke for 45 minutes before saying a single word about domestic policy.

What I realized, watching that performance, is that, in a strange way, the Paris attacks have unleashed Christie to do what comes most naturally to him, which is to tell a compelling story.

It’s not that he has any great plan for how to combat ISIS or safeguard American cities. What Christie does have is a personal story about his own family’s experience with terrorism and victims in his New Jersey neighborhood, about his years as a U.S. attorney and about a country that has, in his view, become complacent and irresolute.

“It’s the greatest strength I bring to the job, the history and the ability to make decisions in this realm without getting the high, hard one thrown by me,” Christie told me. “And I think a lot of presidents run the risk of that. And I just don’t think that I would on this, because I’ve been through so much of it before and heard and dealt with the lingo and the egos and all the rest.”

But he also agreed that the issue of terrorism is a prism through which voters can get to know him.

“I think that foreign policy is all about, at first blush, the personality of the people executing that foreign policy,” he said. “Kissinger said to me one time, ‘Foreign policy is all about courage and character. Everything else can be learned.’”

Part of the challenge for Christie here — and for other governing candidates in the race — is that voters this year just don’t seem to care very much about records or experience, or at least not yet. I mentioned to him a trend this year that has confounded me and many others: Governors, who generally made for the best candidates over the past half century or so, seem to be flailing this time around.

Nine current or former governors have been in the race on the Republican side. Of those, three — Walker, Rick Perry and Bobby Jindal — were the first to leave the Republican race. Not a single governor is polling in double digits.

Christie shook his head at me.

“The governors who have dropped out earned it,” he said, a little coldly. “They earned dropping out. Your performance matters. This stuff doesn’t happen by coincidence or by chance. The people still standing are the people who are the best at this.”

In fact, Christie has been making an overt case for executive experience, while throwing a few not-so-subtle punches at his opponents — notably Rubio. He tells audiences that “new is cool, new is shiny,” but in serious times you need a serious leader. He tells them that the last thing they need is a new president who sits down in the Oval Office on his first day and says, “Gee whiz.”

I wondered if that was entirely fair to Rubio, who is, after all, in federal office, and whom I’d consider part of the governing faction.

“Except he has no experience governing,” Christie shot back. “He’s had five years in the United States Senate, and for a good amount of that time he’s been running for president. So I don’t know.”

Was he saying that Rubio reminded him of a certain Democratic president?

“Yeah,” Christie said, expressionless. “Yes.”

Christie was more circumspect when it came to [Sleezebag], with whom he is trying to avoid the kind of full-on entanglement that hasn’t worked especially well for his rivals.

A few days earlier, after Christie had categorically rejected [Sleezebag]’s story about New Jersey Muslims celebrating on Sept. 11, [Sleezebag] fired off some nasty tweets about him. In one, I reminded Christie, [Sleezebag] had wondered: “How is Chris Christie running the state of New Jersey, which is deeply troubled, when he is spending all of his time in NH?”

Christie seemed to twitch just a bit, but his voice remained calm.

“Since he’s never been a governor,” Christie said, “I’d think he’d have no idea.”

*****

Christie is the kind of politician, more like a Bill Clinton than a Barack Obama, who loves the brinkmanship of politics and thinks deeply about the strategy. So, near the end of our conversation, I asked him to talk a bit about how he saw the race playing out from here, and, a little to my surprise, he obliged.

The way Christie sees it, there will be room for only four to six candidates to emerge intact from the voting in Iowa and New Hampshire. That means maybe two of the governors in the race will be able to move on from there.

At that point, “there will be a lot of congealing,” Christie said, borrowing a word I had used. He reminded me that only three of the 31 Republican governors had endorsed anyone to this point (two for Christie, one for Kasich), and suggested that they might play a pivotal role, after the early contests, in swinging the party behind an eventual nominee.

“The governors’ wing of the party has not yet asserted itself in any significant way,” he told me. “If they do, how will that affect the race?”

In New Hampshire, where his campaign is clearly on the line, Christie has a simple strategy: hang around. He says the data from past campaigns shows that as many as seven in 10 voters won’t make up their minds until the last two weeks.

For now, he just wants to be in the “top three” for most voters, which is a phrase New Hampshirites — born to their privilege as presidential winnowers — use a lot.

Don’t the low poll numbers discourage him?

“I don’t fret too much about that,” Christie said. “In the beginning I did. I would say, why aren’t we getting any traction? What am I missing? And then I finally concluded that I wasn’t missing anything. They’re not ready to decide!

“If next week some poll comes out,” he added, “and I haven’t gotten some big bump from the Union Leader endorsement or the other activist endorsements, it’s not like I’m going to go stick my head in the toilet, like, ‘What’s happening?’ I’m going to say, ‘OK, go back to New Hampshire next week and keep grinding it out.’”

Christie’s main advantage, it seems to me, is that he is, in some ways, more like [Sleezebag] than his rivals. Christie has governed, yes — with mixed results that we could argue about all day and into the night — but he is also a born entertainer.

What [Sleezebag] has discovered this year — or maybe what he helped the rest of us discover — is the disturbing nexus that now exists between campaigns and performance, between political theater and governing reality. Christie lives firmly on the reality side of that line, but he is more comfortable than any other serious politician in the field with the theatrical.

In his town halls, he has always been part candidate, part facilitator and part TV therapist, in a way that can seem spontaneous even when it’s been deliberately honed and contrived.

And this is probably why, at a moment when the other candidates who scream “experience!” seem somehow out of their time and element, Christie may yet be finding a way to make the message work.

“I’ve said this to people, and I’ll say it to you on the record,” Christie told me. “This is a game of ‘Survivor.’ You just don’t want to get voted off the island. That’s it. What you want is to continue to be in there and continue to be relevant and continue to speak.”

Christie is relevant, for as long as it lasts. We’ll know soon enough if the moment is leading him somewhere, or if he’s just a guy out for a walk.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/christie-is-getting-his-moment-1313445610946614.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/christie-is-getting-his-moment-1313445610946614.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 05, 2015, 12:05:29 AM
Thanks for those articles, Buncle.

I'm not a Christie fan. While I respect his candor, I have issues with his outlook, as I do with most prosecutors. They tend to see things in an us vs. them kind of way, as opposed to putting the Constitution first.

Reaction to the current tragedy will likely favor tough guy Christie.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 05, 2015, 12:20:12 AM
Right.  -And as I've said before, he's The Pig for grownups, and I don't mean to insult him saying that; some key elements of the attitude and manners, only HE can usually back it up and knows what he's talking about.  If he can stick it out long enough, he ought to do a lot better than most when The Pig finds a pretext to take his toys and go home.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 05, 2015, 02:13:05 AM
One thing in particular sticks with me from the Sanders article-

:Sanders’ sticks with him: “He said, ‘Obama’s great, but he did one major thing wrong: He built up a huge grassroots organization to get him elected, and on the day he took office he said, ‘Thank you all very much. I’ll take it from here.’”

While I would argue that Obama did more than one thing wrong, but that was clearly a wrong turn.

Clinton was able to go to the people when his own Congress thwarted him, but maybe that's the difference between a narcissist and an extroverted approval seeker.  My impression of [Sleezebag] is that he's an egotistical autocrat.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 05, 2015, 02:19:08 AM
One thing in particular sticks with me from the Sanders article-

:Sanders’ sticks with him: “He said, ‘Obama’s great, but he did one major thing wrong: He built up a huge grassroots organization to get him elected, and on the day he took office he said, ‘Thank you all very much. I’ll take it from here.’”

While I would argue that Obama did more than one thing wrong, but that was clearly a wrong turn.

Clinton was able to go to the people when his own Congress thwarted him, but maybe that's the difference between a narcissist and an extroverted approval seeker.  My impression of [Sleezebag] is that he's an egotistical autocrat.
Obama has done a lot more than one thing wrong, but that was certainly one of them.  I guess it's down to being green, or something; I don't think he's a narcissist, but isn't he currently holding his third elected office ever?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 05, 2015, 06:51:30 AM
Uh... not sure. I think he went state senator/US congressman/US Senator/President , looking for the next job before making a name in the last one. I'll look into it....

You, sir are correct. He went straight from state senator to US Senator to President!
Rookie Jan 3, 1997 to President in Jan 20, 2009

Well, he's getting bashed enough this week for that no credible terrorist threat thing, I'll save my keystrokes for some other politician.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on December 30, 2015, 07:17:14 PM
This article is interesting for it's graphic.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/experienced-gop-presidential-candidates-the-first-quit (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/experienced-gop-presidential-candidates-the-first-quit)

With the exception of Kasich, who I've said would probably be the most effective president, the most experienced/ best qualified candidates have dropped out . He's struggling with a 30 day polling average of 2.05%

It's still 2 positions below the unqualified Fiorina at 2.48%
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 15, 2016, 06:01:27 AM
Well, there was another GOP debate tonight.

The qualifiers were- [Sleezebag], Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Christy, Bush, and Kasich. They opened with attacks upon Hillary, made a few jokes, but I don't know that they differentiated themselves. Discussions of comparative tax plans led to my discovery of this website, which allows you to compare candidates' proposals on various tax types.

http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-reform-proposals (http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-reform-proposals)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on January 15, 2016, 11:48:57 AM
Quote
The Bernie revolution: He’s not going anywhere

Thats the issue really isn't it? He's not going anywhere is right. His campaign strategy seems to be to  wait
for the Hillary campaign to implode so he can step in. It does looks like Hillary is going to implode sooner rather than later.

Quote
Obama has done a lot more than one thing wrong, but that was certainly one of them.
Obama has done some things correctly. He's the best gun salesman in US history for one.
Also he's pretty much gotten [Sleezebag] elected already.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on January 15, 2016, 02:38:12 PM
Well, there was another GOP debate tonight.

The qualifiers were- [Sleezebag], Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Christy, Bush, and Kasich. They opened with attacks upon Hillary, made a few jokes, but I don't know that they differentiated themselves. Discussions of comparative tax plans led to my discovery of this website, which allows you to compare candidates' proposals on various tax types.

http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-reform-proposals (http://taxfoundation.org/comparing-2016-presidential-tax-reform-proposals)


Thank you for that. 

I'm no financial expert, (and have paid no attention to anything election related to date) but according to that chart, [Sleezebag]'s plan looks like he's trying to close deduction loopholes, but lowering the overall tax rate, and providing a large break for "investments". 

I suppose the idea is a kind of voluntary stimulus for those with $$$ and corporations to either pay through the nose or put money back into the economy.  Whether his closing of deduction loopholes is enough to offset the overall deduction he's giving to the rich, or whether "Investment" is just another glaring loophole or will really stimulate the economy is beyond my comprehension. 

Sanders' 65% estate tax jumps out at me as bordering on ludicrous. 

Everyone else looks like rather minor changes to the existing system.  Except Rand Paul's flat tax.  I like the idea of a flat tax, myself, but don't see myself being able to back the guy. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 15, 2016, 04:13:17 PM
Quote
Time to take Sanders seriously
Matt Bai  National Political Columnist  January 14, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/WJv5fU914wMG1PigYD9nhw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9Mzk5O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/aff903163676be5eeec8edc2a2d12a7d43baa4c7.jpg)
Some polls have Bernie Sanders overtaking Hillary Clinton in Iowa and opening up a double-digit lead in New Hampshire. (Photo: Carolyn Kaster/AP)



After I wrote about the twisted codependency of Donald [Sleezebag] and the media a few weeks back, some readers got in touch to complain that the attention paid to [Sleezebag] had all but obscured the rise of Bernie Sanders. In an interview with CNN that week, Sanders himself made the same point, referring to a report that claimed network news shows had devoted 234 minutes to [Sleezebag] and only 10 to his campaign. (Yes, 10 – for the entire year.)

Judging from what’s happening right now in Iowa and New Hampshire, Sanders and his avid supporters have a legitimate point.

Just as the Democratic primaries were the dominant story in the 2008 cycle, so has the Republican train wreck proved to be the most compelling storyline this year. But with less than three weeks to go before the voting starts, Sanders may be just as plausible a nominee as [Sleezebag].

A New York Times/CBS News poll this week showed Sanders, who trailed Hillary Clinton among Democrats by 20 points a month ago, closing that gap to 7. But national polls are essentially meaningless; what’s more impressive are polls that have Sanders  overtaking Clinton  in Iowa and opening up a double-digit lead in New Hampshire.

It’s hard to know exactly what we’re looking at here. Is Sanders making a last, spirited stand before reality crashes down on him? Or is this the year when the molecular structure of our politics — on both sides — is about to be smashed apart and scrambled?

History would certainly suggest the former — that Sanders is only the latest in a long line of leftist insurgents, popular with college kids and urban idealists, who shake the party’s establishment without ever really threatening to topple it. The most obvious comparison is to Howard Dean, who by the end of 2003 was dominating the cycle in terms of both polling and money, and who went on to win a single primary — in his own tiny state.

Maybe an even better analogue would be the 2000 Democratic campaign, which was the first one I covered. The entire party establishment then was lined up behind the sitting vice president, Al Gore, but by the end of 1999, the former senator Bill Bradley was still running strong. Much like Sanders, Bradley ran against the legacy of Clintonian calculation, disparaging the incrementalism of the ’90s.

Bradley endured a withering assault from Gore and the party’s leaders, then got whacked in Iowa and edged out in New Hampshire. From that moment on, he was a dead candidate walking.

Clinton is as flawed a candidate as Gore was, and not terribly trusted by the electorate; I’ve never assumed she was a lock for the nomination in the way a lot of my colleagues did. But in Sanders (in contrast to a younger governor like Martin O’Malley, whose campaign has foundered), she drew a chief competitor who’s 74, socialist and scolding. You could argue that no establishment candidate in the last 40 years has gotten luckier than that.

And yet we can all get too hung up on history, and there are reasons to think that the Democratic primaries in 2016 might not be a replay of years past.

In 2000, the antiestablishment current in public life had just begun to assert itself (among the outsiders who threatened to run that year was [Sleezebag] himself), and the Internet was a crude new tool for organizing and raising money.

Now, of course, the attitudes of most voters toward their own party leaders range somewhere between indifferent and contemptuous, and small-dollar fundraising online has obliterated whatever structural advantage an anointed candidate once enjoyed. Sanders raised $73 million in 2015 — about $40 million less than Clinton, but more than enough to run a competitive national campaign.

Clinton, meanwhile, continues to run a strangely remote and impersonal campaign, the political equivalent of a drone operated out of some desert trailer. Everything seems carefully selected for minimal engagement — the orchestrated town halls, the carefully navigated TV interviews, the occasional think-tank speeches.

Clinton’s campaign has policies — just this week, feeling the pressure, she highlighted a series of sober and eminently sensible proposals for making the wealthy pay more taxes — but no discernible argument or soul. If she had a candid slogan, it would be: “Let’s just get there, and I’ll know what to do.”

Only recently has Clinton even seen fit to really acknowledge her chief opponent,  going after Sanders for his record of supporting the gun industry. For most of the campaign, she has treated him more like the doddering uncle one must respect even as his dinner-table tirades grow tiresome.

That’s a dangerous way to run against a tireless, plainspoken populist, at a moment when voters, for better or worse, yearn to feel some emotional connection to their politicians. Of all the attitudes a candidate might project right now, exasperation and entitlement are two of the least helpful.

Most significantly, though, the country is in a vastly different place, economically and psychically, than we were when Gore plowed his way through to the nomination that was assumed to be his.

Consider the way Bill Clinton began his final State of the Union address at this time in 2000: “Never before has our nation enjoyed, at once, so much prosperity and social progress with so little internal crisis and so few external threats.” He went on to reel off a series of statistics that were to be the basis of his legacy — crime down by 20 percent, teen births down for seven straight years, welfare rolls cut in half.

That wasn’t anything like the tone of Obama’s final address this week, 15 years after Sept. 11 and eight years after the collapse of Wall Street. “Anyone claiming that America’s economy is in decline is peddling fiction,” he said, in a speech that seemed almost plaintive at times. “What is true — and the reason that a lot of Americans feel anxious — is that the economy has been changing in profound ways, changes that started long before the Great Recession hit and haven’t let up.”

As the heir to the previous administration, Clinton isn’t running with the kind of gusting tailwind that propelled Gore forward in 2000, and that may be the most salient fact of her existence this year.

You’d have to conclude that Sanders has at least an even chance of winning one of the first two states, and decent odds of winning both.

And if so, what happens then?

Even winning both Iowa and New Hampshire wouldn’t make Sanders the likely nominee. The main reason Obama was able to surpass Clinton in the 2008 primaries, unlike other insurgents in the party’s modern history, is that he peeled off most of the black voters on whom the establishment candidate always relies. Sanders probably can’t, which is why Clinton would still have the edge in South Carolina and in a lot of big states that follow.

But if Clinton comes out of the first two contests badly weakened, establishment Democrats will find themselves in the same chaotic, panicked state they’ve been chortling about while watching the Republicans. There would be renewed calls, inevitably, for another late entry into the field — namely Joe Biden, who took an unexpected swipe at Clinton on income inequality this week.

For Clinton, what it would mean, mostly, is that she’d have to settle in for the  next installment of a tedious movie she hoped never to have to revisit: “The Long, Dark Slog Through Delegate Hell, Part II.”

All she could hope, in that event, is that it doesn’t end the same.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/time-to-take-sanders-seriously-1342599418519606.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/time-to-take-sanders-seriously-1342599418519606.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 15, 2016, 04:18:20 PM
Quote
Rubio and Christie battle for establishment lane
Jon Ward  January 15, 2016



For much of the night Thursday, the sixth Republican presidential primary debate was a split-screen competition, with two pairs of candidates fighting separate battles.

As Donald [Sleezebag] and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz slugged it out for the top spot in the Republican presidential primary polls, the two men competing to represent the establishment wing engaged with each other.

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie hope to emerge as the champion of Republican voters who do not like Cruz and [Sleezebag].

In New Hampshire, for example, support in the polls for Rubio, Christie, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Ohio Gov. John Kasich amounts to 42 percent. [Sleezebag] leads the pack, but with only 30 percent.

Each of the four hopes to be the one to break out of the pack and emerge as the alternative to [Sleezebag] and Cruz. So each has been taking shots at the others, but Rubio and Christie’s broadsides at each other have been particularly harsh.

Late in the debate, Cruz and Rubio clashed — as they did onstage last month — on immigration. But the fight that matters most to Rubio now is with Christie, and it will likely get more intense as the Feb. 1 Iowa caucuses and the Feb. 9 New Hampshire primary approach.

Debate moderator Neil Cavuto of Fox News asked the two Republicans about their recent back-and-forth, in which Christie charged that Rubio was trying to “slime his way to the White House,” and a super-PAC supporting Rubio portrayed Christie as a liberal in step with President Obama.

Rubio noted — after saying that he liked Christie — that the governor supported the Common Core education standards and gun control, and that he had once, years ago, made a personal donation to Planned Parenthood.

“All I’m saying is: Our next president has to be someone that undoes the damage Barack Obama has done to this country. It cannot be someone that agrees with his agenda,” Rubio said.

Cavuto asked Rubio if he considered Christie a liberal. Rubio stopped short of saying he did, but repeated many of his charges and added one more, that Christie supported Obama’s nomination of Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor.

“Unfortunately, Governor Christie has endorsed many of the ideas that Barack Obama supports, whether it is Common Core or gun control or the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor or the donation he made to Planned Parenthood,” Rubio said. “Our next president, and our Republican nominee, cannot be someone who supports those positions.”

Christie flung back at Rubio the Florida senator’s own response to Bush when the former governor attacked him in an earlier debate. At the time, Rubio said that Bush was simply doing what political consultants told him to do, because he was slipping in polls.

“I stood on the stage and watched Marco, rather indignantly, look at Governor Bush and say, ‘Someone told you that because we’re running for the same office, that criticizing me will get you to that office,’” Christie said, leaning on his rostrum and looking at Rubio. “It appears that the same someone has been whispering in old Marco’s ear too.”

Christie disputed Rubio’s charges. “I didn’t support Sonia Sotomayor,” he said. “Secondly, I never wrote a check to Planned Parenthood.” And he listed steps he said he had taken to veto gun control measures: vetoes of a 50-caliber rifle ban, a clip-size reduction plan and a statewide ID system proposal.

Common Core, he said, has been “eliminated” in New Jersey.

Christie went on to dismiss Rubio’s accomplishments as a senator — “What you get to do is just talk and talk and talk” — and then mocked him for changing his tone after they became rivals. Christie came back to his charge that Rubio was changing his stripes and abandoning his high-minded tone of a few months ago.

“I like Marco too, and two years ago, he called me a conservative reformer that New Jersey needed,” Christie said. “That was before he was running against me. Now that he is, he’s changed his tune.”

But Rubio failed to press his attack on several points where Christie would seem to be vulnerable.

In 1994, Christie did say he had donated money to Planned Parenthood, but now says he was misquoted. He was pro-choice in the early 1990s, but says he changed his views after hearing his daughter’s heartbeat in utero.

In the early 1990s, Christie supported an assault-weapons ban, but now admits he’s changed his mind. He defended Common Core as recently as 2013, but last year abandoned this position.

On Sotomayor, Christie said he wouldn’t have nominated Sotomayor, but did say, “I support her confirmation.”

Late in the debate, as Cruz and Rubio debated tax policy, Christie interrupted to tout his own experience as a governor and once again reinforce his experience as a state executive — in contrast to Rubio’s job as a lawmaker in a body of 100 senators. And he punctuated it with a dismissive put-down.

“I’d like to interrupt this debate on the floor of the Senate,” Christie said. He reminded the audience that the question had been about entitlements, and said he wanted to talk about that subject, projecting an air of exasperation with Cruz and Rubio for not addressing the topic at hand.

When Rubio started to say that he would be happy to talk about entitlements, Christie brought him up short.

“You already had your chance, Marco. You blew it,” Christie thundered.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/rubio-and-christie-battle-for-establishment-lane-052925760.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/rubio-and-christie-battle-for-establishment-lane-052925760.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on January 15, 2016, 09:26:33 PM
Here I set up someone for reply 666, and they didn't seem to notice. :( 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 21, 2016, 05:07:25 AM
I was wrong. I was sure [Sleezebag] would screw up, and somebody would replace him as clear frontrunner. Sure he has enough money to stay in the race to the end, but in such a prolonged campaign, [Sleezebag] was bound to be [Sleezebag], shoot off his mouth, and lose standing in the polls. He did, but it didn't matter. More than once.

Traditionally the media loves a horse-race story when it comes to political coverage. Neck and neck with lead changes. In my mind, I often hear the Carly Simon lyrics "keep remindin' me, how he set me up, just to watch me fall," whenever I watch campaign coverage.

Remember when they called President Regan "Teflon Ron" because nothing seemed to stick to him personally?

Both [Sleezebag] and Hillary have high negatives, but as unlikable as they are, their core supporters don't care about gaffs and bungles. They seem to shrug those off.

The two are starting to look inevitable for that reason, even though not a vote has been cast or delegate allotted. I foresee a fall mudslinging fest between a pair of Teflon titans.
The odd thing about it is that if there was a less polarizing frontrunner in the opposition party, people would be concerned about choosing a standard barer with 50 % or higher negatives, and throwing the election to the enemy.

But Hillary continues to thrive because The Donald, and vice versa.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 29, 2016, 05:49:43 PM
Quote
I Chased Bernie Sanders for 70 Miles Today
GQ
By Jason Zengerle  January 28, 2016, 7:16 pm ET


(http://media.gq.com/photos/56aaab43cb255f772517be49/master/pass/bernie-sanders-bus.jpg)



Jason Zengerle finds out how Bernie Sanders is bucking up the troops...............................................


I was driving east on US-63, outside of Des Moines, headed to see Bill Clinton stump for his wife Thursday night in Ottumwa. In other words, on my way to see Bill Clinton make the case against Bernie Sanders, a political figure who looms larger now than anybody could have thought just a few months ago. And that’s the moment I saw…Bernie Sanders?

In the days before Monday’s Iowa caucus, when the entire political world descends on the Hawkeye State, the place seems to shrink. So much so that you get the feeling that, at any moment, a person who wants to be president (or a person who was president) could be right in front of you. To be honest, I didn’t spot Sanders, not technically—just his gleaming campaign bus. So I decided to follow it.

Seventy miles later, it pulled up in front of a brick building in downtown Ottumwa. Inside were about 100 local Sanders volunteers; Bernie had come to give them a pep talk. Speaking into a mic attached to a scratchy portable PA system, Sanders began by thanking them. “I think everybody understands that today we are in a nip-and-tuck race. That’s a fact. So the reason that we have come so far in such a relatively short period of time is because of your efforts.” Then he implored them to keep at it. “Four days to go,” Sanders said. “We will win this election if there is a large voter turnout on Monday night. We will not win it if there is a low voter turnout. Our job in the next four days is to make certain that there is a large voter turnout.”

As Sanders posed for a quick round of pictures with the volunteers, I fell into a conversation with a young woman wearing a blue hoodie and a Bernie Sanders hat who was drinking from a giant can of Surge. Her name was Emily Crouse, and she was 23. She said she was working for minimum wage at a Subway in Ottumwa and living with her parents as she tried to save enough money to go back to college.

“He just really speaks to me,” she explained. “He’s talking about free health care. He’s talking about bringing up the minimum wage, equal pay, free college. I’m like, ‘Where has this guy been my whole life?’ ” Crouse planned to caucus for Sanders on Monday night. “I’m heading there right after work after I pick up my Mom.”

Between now and then, she was going to do whatever she could to help Sanders. “If I’m not working, I’m going to be here,” Crouse said. “I’m actually waiting to go make some calls now.” She excused herself and headed into a small room decorated with handwritten posters bearing some of Sanders’ favorite sayings. The candidate, meanwhile, slipped out a side door and got back onto his bus, headed to another town to give another pep talk to another group of volunteers.
http://www.gq.com/story/chasing-bernie-sanders-campaign-trail-iowa (http://www.gq.com/story/chasing-bernie-sanders-campaign-trail-iowa)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 29, 2016, 05:54:09 PM
Quote
Republican Debate Review: Without [Sleezebag], Cruz Became The Target
Yahoo! Politics
Ken Tucker  Critic-at-Large  January 28, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/50PM1f888rcFoEVvcUTj9w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTUzO2g9MzY5O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w553/501eddffaab95d24f96e32c750b7470f67ad9c9d.jpg)



Donald [Sleezebag] thought he was going to be attacked by Megyn Kelly, and pulled out of the Fox News-Google Republican debate. Ted Cruz ended up being the guy who was attacked on Thursday night — not by Kelly, but by a couple of his opponents. Marco Rubio and Rand Paul aimed a number of direct hits at Cruz, and in terms of television drama, that made Cruz the chief protagonist (and antagonist) of the debate.

Marco Rubio tried to paint Ted Cruz as a phony: “Throughout this campaign, you’ve been willing to say or do anything to get votes.” Rand Paul criticized what he term Cruz’s egotistical “falseness… that is an authenticity problem — that everybody he knows is not as perfect as him.”

The night began with Kelly saying, “Let’s address the elephant not in the room tonight,” referring, of course, to [Sleezebag]. She asked Cruz, “What message do you think that sends” to Iowans? Surprisingly, Cruz failed to answer Kelly’s question, probably the easiest one he got all night. Instead, Cruz went with a painfully obvious prepared joke: “I’m a maniac. And everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. And Ben [Carson], you’re a terrible surgeon.” Pause. “Now that we’ve gotten the Donald [Sleezebag] portion out of the way…” Ouch. The only thing missing was a drum rim shot and some nervous, Jimmy Fallon-like giggling at his own feeble merry-making.

While the debate was notably duller without [Sleezebag], it was well-produced television. The Fox News panel of moderators—Kelly, Chris Wallace, and Bret Baier — proved the most impressive interrogators of any debate, Democratic or Republican, held thus far. It was an especially good idea to use clips of the candidates’ previous statements to challenge their current positions. Kelly introduced snippets from Cruz and Rubio that were particularly effective in suggesting both men had altered their positions on various issues fundamentally. Plus, using clips for illustrative purposes is good TV.

For example, Kelly played three clips in which Cruz said he was trying to save the 2013 Senate immigration bill. He has since said he was trying use an amendment to kill it. “Was that all an act?” asked Kelly, with a steely flourish. “It’s pretty convincing,” she said. Cruz was left scrambling to assemble a response.

Some idiot in the background of Chris Wallace’s camera angle persisted in mugging and waving at the TV audience—I was surprised it took so long for Fox News and the hall’s security to take care of that.

Nevertheless, a viewer could not come away from this debate without thinking there were essentially only two key players on the stage. Cruz and Rubio, in the fervor of their answers, the frequency with which they spoke, and the applause that they generated from their supporters, emerged clearly. Rand Paul — a last-minute addition after [Sleezebag] dropped out — also proved invaluable as an agent of good TV, needling Cruz and Rubio with deftness, and commandeering his own lustily-cheering section of the audience.

Chris Christie’s strategy — looking into the camera instead of at the moderators or his opponents, and attacking Hillary Clinton and President Obama—may be a sound campaign plan, but it made him seem like a free-floating entity, untethered from the action.

It’s always possible for participants to complain about not getting his share of the spotlight. John Kasich barely got any air time and made little impression. Carson got more air time, but, alas, his vague responses to pointed questions made less of an impression than Kasich. Who’d I leave out? Oh, right: Jeb Bush. Yup, he was there, too.
-megyn-kelly-cruz-rubio-fox-042752841.html]https://www.yahoo.com/tv/republican-debate-[Sleezebag]-megyn-kelly-cruz-rubio-fox-042752841.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tv/republican-debate-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 29, 2016, 06:01:53 PM
Quote
AP FACT CHECK: GOP claims on carpet bombs, Kurds and economy
Associated Press
Robert Burns and Josh Boak,  January 28, 2016



WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican presidential contenders let fly with some inaccuracies when they badmouthed the Obama administration on health care, military readiness and pay for construction workers in their latest debate.

And from his own event a few miles away in Des Moines Iowa, debate no-show Donald [Sleezebag] greatly exaggerated the U.S. trade deficit with China.

A look at some of the claims Thursday night and how they compare with the facts:

TED CRUZ: "We have seen now in six years of Obamacare that it has been a disaster. It is the biggest job-killer in this country. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs, have been forced into part-time work, have lost their health insurance, have lost their doctors, have seen their premiums skyrocket. "

THE FACTS: Lost jobs? Since the time Obama signed the health care law in March 2010, the nation's jobless rate has fallen from 9.9 percent to 5 percent. The economy has added more than 13 million jobs over that period.

Lost insurance? The share of Americans without coverage reached a historic low of 9 percent last year, according to the government's National Health Interview Survey. More than 16 million people gained coverage since 2013, just before the law's big coverage expansion got underway.

___

[Sleezebag]: "China this year in trade will make over $500 billion dollars in terms of our trade deficit. $500 billion. That's no partnership, and I'm a free trader. I love free trade. But we have to use our head. And we use political hacks to negotiate with the Chinese."

THE FACTS: [Sleezebag] should re-check his numbers before conducting a trade negotiation. He could be referring to the total U.S. trade deficit with every country in the world. That totaled about $508 billion in 2014, which actually represents an improvement from the $762 billion deficit reached in 2006, according to the Census Bureau.

But the trade deficit in goods with China was $343 billion in 2014 — significantly below what [Sleezebag] has suggested in multiple statements.

___

MARCO RUBIO: "You cannot destroy ISIS with a military that's being diminished."

CRUZ: Obama has "dramatically degraded our military.

"THE FACTS: The charge that President Barack Obama has starved the Pentagon has become a refrain in the GOP primary campaign, but amounts spent on weapons modernization are about the same as they were when Republican George W. Bush was president.

Any military cuts GOP contenders are complaining about were approved by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. The military budget is being squeezed by the insistence of lawmakers in both parties that money be spent on bases and equipment that the Pentagon says it doesn't need.

___

CRUZ on Obama: "He's not arming the Kurds."

THE FACTS: He is. The U.S. has allocated a substantial amount of weapons and other military equipment to help the Kurds fight the Islamic State group, and is sending the aid.

The shipments have not been direct. Rather, under a deal with the Iraqi government, all U.S. weapons sent to help in the fight are delivered to Iraqi officials, and they divide the weapons between Iraqi and Kurdish forces.

It's true the Kurds have complained that the assistance is not enough. But they are getting arms and other equipment from Washington.

___

CHRIS CHRISTIE: "For the 45-year-old construction worker out there, who is having a hard time making things meet, he's lost $4,000 in the last seven years in his income because of this administration."

THE FACTS: There may be some in hard hats who've lost income, but on the whole, construction workers are faring much better than they did when Obama first took office.

The latest federal jobs report showed their average weekly earnings have risen 2.7 percent annually since 2009 — much faster than the national average for non-management employees. Their weekly earnings jumped to $1,021 in December, compared with a weekly income of $858 seven years ago.

Certainly not everyone has prospered. Overall, the median household income has dropped since 2009 by $1,268, to $53,657.

___

CRUZ defending his threat to "carpet bomb" Islamic State fighters: "It's what we did in the first Persian Gulf War."

THE FACTS: The U.S. conducted an intensive air war against the Saddam Hussein government in the 1991 war. But to call it "carpet bombing" misses one of the most important characteristics of that air campaign: It marked the first large-scale use of precision-guided missiles and bombs in the history of warfare.


 That war also saw the first substantial combat use of the Air Force F-117 stealth fighter, which made it possible for the U.S. to lower risk to pilots flying against enemy air defenses while delivering precision weapons.

 The driving force behind developing precision-guided munitions, which today are even more precise than 25 years ago in the Persian Gulf war, was the goal of reducing the risk of killing civilians. It's a goal the U.S. military has embraced under Republican as well as Democratic presidents.

And Cruz has not explained how carpet bombing a terrorism group that is mingled with citizens in areas they control can be done without substantial deaths of innocents.

___

               RUBIO: Asked to reconcile his past opposition to granting amnesty for people in the United States illegally and his sponsorship of a bill that would grant those people a path to U.S. citizenship, said "We're going to keep ISIS out of America" and "enforce our immigration laws."

               CRUZ: Asked to reconcile his vocal backing for the same bill (along with his attempt to improve its chances with an amendment), and his current claim to never have supported it, said; "The fact that each amendment didn't fix every problem didn't mean that I supported the rest of the bill."

               THE FACTS: About the only thing that was clear in this exchange is that both are squirming over their past immigration positions in a primary season dominated by conservative voters.

               For Rubio, there was one fact on the stage that he couldn't escape — fellow candidate Jeb Bush verified that Rubio asked him to support his path-to-citizenship legislation when it was being written in 2013. And Cruz was caught by a video clip of himself on the Senate floor, urging the bill's passage. 

               Both tried to dismiss their previous statements and emphasize their current stance of wanting to secure the nation's southern border before any other actions are taken to address immigrants living in the country illegally.

___

Associated Press writers Jill Colvin in Des Moines, Iowa, and Vivian Salama, Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar and Alicia A. Caldwell in Washington contributed to this report.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 30, 2016, 12:06:44 AM
APNewsBreak: US declares 22 Clinton emails 'top secret'

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e19abf78b6fe43e7b7719f059901630d/apnewsbreak-govt-finds-top-secret-info-clinton-emails (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/e19abf78b6fe43e7b7719f059901630d/apnewsbreak-govt-finds-top-secret-info-clinton-emails)

"The FBI also is looking into Clinton's email setup, but has said nothing about the nature of its probe. Independent experts say it's unlikely Clinton will be charged with wrongdoing, based on details that have surfaced so far and the lack of indications she intended to break laws.

"What I would hope comes out of all of this is a bit of humility" and Clinton's acknowledgement that "I made some serious mistakes," said Bradley Moss, a Washington lawyer specializing in security clearance matters.

Legal questions aside, it's the potential political costs that probably more concern Clinton. She has struggled in surveys measuring perceived trustworthiness and any investigation, buoyed by evidence of top secret material coursing through her account, could negate a main selling point for her becoming commander in chief: her national security resume. "

Well, if nothing else, the timing sucks for Hillary. I can't help but think that the Obama administration really doesn't like her, if the State Department called a press conference to make this announcement now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 30, 2016, 12:33:31 AM
...The woman's got a lot of bad points, but I really don't find that overblown scandal to be one of the interesting ones...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 30, 2016, 01:06:24 AM
Quote
AP FACT CHECK: GOP claims on carpet bombs, Kurds and economy
Associated Press
Robert Burns and Josh Boak,  January 28, 2016

A look at some of the claims Thursday night and how they compare with the facts:

TED CRUZ: "We have seen now in six years of Obamacare that it has been a disaster. It is the biggest job-killer in this country. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs, have been forced into part-time work, have lost their health insurance, have lost their doctors, have seen their premiums skyrocket. "

THE FACTS: Lost jobs? Since the time Obama signed the health care law in March 2010, the nation's jobless rate has fallen from 9.9 percent to 5 percent. The economy has added more than 13 million jobs over that period.

Lost insurance? The share of Americans without coverage reached a historic low of 9 percent last year, according to the government's National Health Interview Survey. More than 16 million people gained coverage since 2013, just before the law's big coverage expansion got underway.

___

This one has been a burr under my saddle all day. I'm going to go with the old politician's trick/ state of the Union message ploy- anecdotal evidence. -

My wife and I are both high risk health insurance cases. Wasn't an issue when one of us was working. It didn't happen the first year, but the Great Recession strapped my wife's parent company for cash. Because the enterprises she oversaw were the most profitable and desirable, they were the only ones that could be quickly sold piecemeal in a down market. Eventually, they didn't have enough left to justify her job ( or so they thought, but that's a tangent )

Anyway, finding private health insurance for both of us was a rather feminine canine. Then, when Obama care provisions started kicking in, the high deductible policies like we had were outlawed and discontinued. But the exchanges, policies, and whatnot of Affordable care weren't in place. So we were without health insurance and pretty anxious and stressed. I'm a guy that when the tough choices had to be made earlier in my life, went without utilities rather than health and car insurance.

Eventually we got coverage, only to be dropped again because of slow paperwork processing due to stupidity in implementation.

Anyway- while for us Affordable Care is more affordable, it hasn't exactly been dependable care in the transition. Also, it's the only time in my adult life when I was uninsured.

So actually - When my wife  lost her job, and was  forced into part-time work, we lost our health insurance multiple times, I recently lost my doctor ( because of Affordable Care, but that's tangent, too.), we have seen our  premiums plummet.

I can relate to a lot of it, but I can also say that some of the trouble finding a job was related to the uncertainties of Cruze related government shut-downs. Cuts, at least, would have introduced certainty the economy, rather than paralysis. Now Cruze is claiming he'll repeal every word of Obama Care.

He didn't say anything about making sure there was something else in place first...


If I took off my shoe and hit him in the side of the head do you think it would knock any sense into him?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on January 30, 2016, 01:10:13 AM
...The woman's got a lot of bad points, but I really don't find that overblown scandal to be one of the interesting ones...

No. The only interesting stuff is what we aren't allowed to see anyway.   She continues to approach this one like the lawyer and politician she's always been..


What are the odds of Hilary finding humility?

Better or worse than Cruze getting some sense knocked into him? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 30, 2016, 01:23:34 AM
Oh, they're both pretty much total loses.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on January 30, 2016, 01:24:07 AM
...The woman's got a lot of bad points, but I really don't find that overblown scandal to be one of the interesting ones...

No. The only interesting stuff is what we aren't allowed to see anyway.   She continues to approach this one like the lawyer and politician she's always been..


What are the odds of Hilary finding humility?

Better or worse than Cruze getting some sense knocked into him?
I imagine the range varies between 0 and 0.0000001% within any given year of Hillary finding humility.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 02, 2016, 05:29:15 AM
Amazing! Sanders and Clinton in virtual tie in Iowa with a 95% of the caucus results tabulated.

I watched Sanders' speech. What he lacks in rationality he makes up for in sincerity.

On the other side-

Cruze 28%
[Sleezebag] 24% ( I wonder if he's said his famous catch phrase to the advisor who told him to skip the last debate )
Rubio 23%

Carson is rumored to be temporarily suspending his campaign.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 02, 2016, 11:57:43 AM
Cruz isn't even eligible to run for president.
Quote
THE FACTS: Lost jobs? Since the time Obama signed the health care law in March 2010, the nation's jobless rate has fallen from 9.9 percent to 5 percent. The economy has added more than 13 million jobs over that period.

What are they kidding? The real unemployment numbers (counted in the old way) are about 22%.
Now they don't count people that stopped looking for work.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 02, 2016, 01:57:35 PM
What are they kidding? The real unemployment numbers (counted in the old way) are about 22%.
Now they don't count people that stopped looking for work.
The whole rotation group nonsense used for calculating is easy to manipulate however you want.  Don't know where you're coming up with 22% or "The old way".  The group disparity has been called out since 1975. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 03, 2016, 01:35:16 PM
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts (http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts)
Quote
Alternate Unemployment Charts

The seasonally-adjusted SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate reflects current unemployment reporting methodology adjusted for SGS-estimated long-term discouraged workers, who were defined out of official existence in 1994. That estimate is added to the BLS estimate of U-6 unemployment, which includes short-term discouraged workers.

The U-3 unemployment rate is the monthly headline number. The U-6 unemployment rate is the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) broadest unemployment measure, including short-term discouraged and other marginally-attached workers as well as those forced to work part-time because they cannot find full-time employment.
Unemployment Data Series   subcription required(Subscription required.)  View  Download Excel CSV File   Last Updated: January 8th, 2016

The ShadowStats Alternate Unemployment Rate for December 2015 is 22.9%.
Quote
“The 6.7 percent is probably 21 or 22 percent in real numbers,” he said of the nation’s unemployment rate. (That number ticked down further, to 6.6 percent, in January.) “When you give up looking for a job, it’s like they consider you employed,” he continued. “It’s amazing.”


There you go the second is a speech from [Sleezebag]. I've heard numbers even higher. Especially recent college graduates thats closer to 40%. You cant just open the borders and let people flood in without consequences. Why do you think [Sleezebag] has so much support? Oh by the way Cruz is Canadian born and not eligible to even run the Democrats are talking about suing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 03, 2016, 02:05:15 PM
To that I would question where they're coming up with their estimate, and why it's not tracking down the last 4 years when it's previously followed the same pattern as the official numbers.  Nothing has changed in how the other numbers are generated over the last 4 years, so it just smells like cooked numbers specifically to make the present administration look bad.  As you say, their bone of contention was removed in 1994, and since then their estimate has tracked along with the U3 and U6 number, until it was convenient for them to not.  So, yes, I understand their contention that the real unemployment is higher than the headline number, I do strongly question how they are coming up with their estimate (which they don't explain). 

As for a [Sleezebag] speech, you probably point to his source. 


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 03, 2016, 02:58:46 PM
Quote
Officially, the unemployment rate in the U.S. is 5.6%, meaning 5.6% of the work force is temporarily out of a job and actively seeking another one. This low number reflects nearly full employment, as 3% to 4% of the work force is typically in the process of quitting/being laid off and finding another job.

Typically, periods of nearly full employment are economically good times, as household income is bolstered and employers have to pay a bit more to hire workers when the labor market is tight.

But these do not feel like good times for most households, despite the low unemployment rate. Earnings are stagnant for 90% of the work force, and employers are only paying a competitive premium for workers in very select fields (programmers adept at Python and mobile user interfaces, etc.)

This creates a cognitive dissonance between the low official unemployment rate and the real economy, which is behaving like an economy with much higher rates of unemployment, i.e. sluggish hiring, stagnant wages, difficulty in finding jobs, and very little pressure on employers to pay more for typical jobs.

Let's start by trying to calculate the work force--the number of people who could get a job if they wanted to. This isn't quite as straightforward as we might imagine, because the two primary agencies that compile these statistics use slightly different categories.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) calculates the civilian noninstitutional population as everyone 16 and older who is not in active-duty military service or in prison. The BLS reckons this to be about 250 million people, out of a total population of about 317 million residents: Household Data (BLS)

The BLS subtracts 93 million people who are not in the labor force, leaving about 157 million people in the civilian work force--roughly half the nation's population.

Of these, 148.8 million have a job of some sort and 8.6 million are unemployed.

The Census Bureau calculates the civilian noninstitutional population as everyone who is not in active-duty military service or in prison. (You can download various data on the U.S. population on this Census Bureau website: Age and Sex Composition in the United States: 2012. I am using Table 1 data.)

The Census Bureau places the civilian noninstitutional population at 308.8 million in 2012. Since roughly 4 million people are born and 2.6 million die in the U.S. each year, we can adjust this upward by roughly 3.5 million to bring it up to date (mid-2015) to 312 million.

About 74 million people are 17 and younger, and 36 million are 68 and older. Given that the full-benefit retirement age for Social Security is pushing 67, I am using 67 as the cut-off for the work force rather than the traditional 65.

This is of course a squishy calculation, as many people retire at 62 and others work beyond the age of 70. But given the strong employment trends of the over-65 cohort, I think it fair and reasonable to include everyone between 18 and 67 in the work force.

Subtracting 110 young people and retirees leaves a civilian work force of around 200 million people. Let's then subtract those who can't work or choose not to work for conventional reasons. There are roughly 8 million people on permanent disability and several million more at any one time on temporary disability, so let's subtract 10 million disabled.

Next, let's subtract stay-at-home parents. Since there are 20 million children under the age of 5, let's reckon 20 million adults will on average choose to leave the work force to care for their children full-time.

Should this number be 40 million? What about home-schooling? Given the possibilities for part-time, home-based and free-lance work, I am reluctant to conclude everyone caring for or schooling their children cannot possibly earn some income. But let's consider adding another 10 million adults who may be caring for their families (seniors as well as children) at home full-time.

While it may seem as if every other hipster in town is a trust funder, i.e. a person who draws upon inherited wealth and doesn't need to work, Internal Revenue Service (IRS) data reports less than 2 million people draw substantial incomes from trusts. Since even those with unearned income can still perform work, I include trust funders in the work force.

If we subtract 10 million disabled and 30 million stay-at-home parents, we have a work force of around 160 million--not far from the BLS number of 157 million. If we use a smaller number of full-time stay-at-home parents, then perhaps the work force is closer to 170 million.

The BLS calculates what it calls labor force participation rate--63% of the total civilian noninstitutional population is in the labor force.

The next issue is what we reckon qualifies as a job. In general, the BLS and the Census Bureau count anyone with earned income as employed. The BLS reckons 148.8 million people have jobs, but this includes 23 million people who earn less than $5,000 annually. The Social Security Administration (SSA) states that 155 million people reported taxable income, which includes not just earnings (wages and salaries) but distributions from retirement funds, IRAs, etc. that are taxable. Wage Statistics for 2013.

The question boils down to this: should we count someone who earns $1,000 a year as employed? How about someone who earns $5,000? At what point does an income enable a person to support himself/herself? Should we place those earning incomes far below a living income in the same category as those with full-time jobs/incomes?

This is where I part company from the government agencies' classification of any earned income in any amount as qualifying as a job. If I am a consultant earning less than $5,000 annually, clearly I cannot support myself on this income. If I earn $2,500 annually in part-time free-lancing, this is at best 10% of poverty-level income for a household in a low-cost region; in a high-cost region, it is perhaps 5% of poverty-level income.

The BLS attempts to define a broader definition of under-employment and unemployment in its categoryU-6 Total unemployed, plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all persons marginally attached to the labor force: this is 10.8% of the work force.

Depending on how we calculate the work force, and if we count everyone with any earnings as employed, we get an unemployment rate of somewhere between 5.6% and 12.5%. If we use the BLS's metric for including under-employment, this is in the range of 10% to 15%.

Common sense suggests that we calculate employment/unemployment based on earnings, not just any income in any amount. If we reckon that only those with earnings of $15,000 or more annually (roughly speaking, full-time work at minimum wage) are fully employed, then the numbers change dramatically.

The $15,000 annual earnings are also a rough benchmark of self-supporting households: two wage-earners making $15,000 each would have a household income of $30,000--enough to get by in much of the country.

About 50 million people earn less than $15,000 annually. This includes roughly 10 million self-employed and 40 million with part-time jobs or other sources of earned income. This suggests that only 100 million of the 160 million work force are fully employed in the sense of not just having a job but making enough to be self-supporting.

There are many caveats resulting from the way that government social welfare is not included in earnings: thus a household might have two part-time wage-earners making very modest sums monthly who are getting by because they qualify for Section 8 housing, SNAP food stamps, Medicaid healthcare, school lunch programs, and so on. These programs enable the working poor to support a household despite low earnings.

Should we include those depending on social welfare programs as fully employed?

By my reckoning, roughly 60% of the civilian work force is fully employed and 40% are marginally employed (i.e. earning less than $15,000 annually) or unemployed. Since full-time workers even at minimum wage earn close to $15,000 annually, I think it is fair to use that as the cut-off for fully employed. The BLS counts 121 million people asusually work full-time, but given only 100 million workers earn $15,000 or more, this doesn't add up unless we include self-employed people earning very little who are counted as full-time workers.



Based on income, I set the fully employed rate at 60%, and the marginally employed/unemployed rate at 40%. If we accept the BLS's 121 million full-time jobs (which once again, this doesn't make sense given even minimum wage full-time jobs earn $14,500, and 50 million people report earnings of less than $15,000), we still get a marginally employed/unemployed rate of 25%: work force of 160 million, 121 million fully employed.

These numbers align much better with the real economy than the official unemployment rate of 5.6%. It's nonsense to count everyone earning a few hundred or few thousand dollars annually as being employed in the same category as full-time workers or those earning $15,000 or more annually.

Quote
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-16/whats-real-unemployment-rate-us

Basically they aren't counting almost a hundred million people.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 03, 2016, 04:30:05 PM
Quote
If we subtract 10 million disabled and 30 million stay-at-home parents, we have a work force of around 160 million--not far from the BLS number of 157 million. If we use a smaller number of full-time stay-at-home parents, then perhaps the work force is closer to 170 million.

Wait, we got close to the official number with our estimate method (and the disparity is mostly explained by the trust funders purposely included because they COULD work even if they don't need to), so let's decide to arbitrarily up that to show greater disparity. 

Quote
This is where I part company from the government agencies' classification of any earned income in any amount as qualifying as a job. If I am a consultant earning less than $5,000 annually, clearly I cannot support myself on this income. If I earn $2,500 annually in part-time free-lancing, this is at best 10% of poverty-level income for a household in a low-cost region; in a high-cost region, it is perhaps 5% of poverty-level income.

And this is where it also starts to fall apart a bit.  By his argument, technically my brother's wife is unemployed.  She works for my brother's business, but does not draw a wage.  The BLS would count her as employed in a "family non-earning" category, the above would just calculate it as unemployed, period.  This would apply to a number of family owned businesses and farms.  The individual may not draw income, but the household does.  What that number is/should be, I don't know. 

Not saying either is perfect, just that any estimate has flaws. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 03, 2016, 06:32:06 PM
Quote
Rand Paul ran for president and realized he’s a senator
Yahoo! Politics
Jon Ward Senior Political Correspondent  February 03, 2016



Rand Paul, the U.S. senator from Kentucky who was once a legitimate contender for the Republican presidential nomination, dropped out of the race Wednesday, two days after a lackluster showing in the Iowa caucuses.

“It’s been an incredible honor to run a principled campaign for the White House, Paul said in a statement announcing the end of his bid. “Today I will end where I began, ready and willing to fight for the cause of Liberty.”

Paul, a 53-year-old ophthalmologist who had never run for office before his election to the Senate in 2010, risked losing his Senate seat if he tarried too long in the presidential race. He will now turn his attention to winning reelection in Kentucky, where the Democratic mayor of Lexington announced last week he will run against Paul.

Paul, the son of libertarian former U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran quixotic but ultimately impactful campaigns for president in 2008 and 2012, rose to national prominence in the spring of 2013 after he spoke on the Senate floor for almost 13 hours to protest President Obama’s use of drones to target American citizens overseas.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/mfYMZgAXkffleR6UkQQ8tQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTc4NTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/ce9c164246bf8e67580345e6b7b0ee5d6f977adb.jpg)
Republican presidential candidate Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., surrounded by his family at a caucus night rally at the Scottish Rite Consistory in Des Moines, Iowa, Monday, Feb. 1, 2016. (Photo: Nati Harnik/AP)


Paul showed considerable creativity in seizing on issues related to civil liberties and foreign policy that cut across partisan lines, raising the prospect that he could build on his father’s constituency in Iowa and elsewhere, bringing in more younger voters as well as mainstream Republicans who saw him as more electable than his father.

Paul also made a point of visiting historically black universities and talked often about the need for the Republican Party to welcome minorities and to expand their party.

But Paul was beset by a number of troubles. His relationship with the Ron Paul libertarian crowd was hurt by his endorsement of Republican nominee Mitt Romney in 2012 and further deteriorated as Rand tacked to the center on foreign policy.

At the same time, Paul’s noninterventionist foreign policy, which had seemed current in 2013, grew out of step with the times as the rise of the so-called Islamic State and a spate of terrorist attacks around the world and in the U.S. raised the nation’s anxiety level about national security and pushed civil liberties concerns off the front burner.

And Paul was also not well cut out for the rigors of a presidential campaign. He was a lackadaisical campaigner who — from the early days — failed to impress donors and Republican Party influencers. His decision to wear blue jeans to a Koch brothers event early this year was innocuous in and of itself, but it came to be seen as a sign of something larger, an arrogance and indifference on Paul’s part that indicated a lack of hunger for the presidency and offended the party’s elites.

Paul, in fact, hated to ask for money. His campaign aides and advisers worked on him to improve, and he did. He also improved in the last few debates.

But over the course of the past year, it became ever more clear that if Paul wanted a place of influence in national politics, he was a better fit for the Senate, where there is more space for the debating and hashing out of ideas, and where he can over the long haul craft legislation to address issues of his concern.

Kentucky Republicans are confident that as long as Paul is fully focused on his reelection, he can hold his seat. The senior senator from Kentucky, after all, is Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and there’s no doubt he was in constant communication with Paul about the need to retain the GOP majority in the Senate.

“I look forward to earning the privilege to represent the people of Kentucky for another term,” Paul said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/rand-paul-ran-for-president-and-realized-hes-a-145457152.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/rand-paul-ran-for-president-and-realized-hes-a-145457152.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 05, 2016, 04:03:09 PM
Quote
Bernie and Hillary end first solo debate with love fest
Yahoo! Politics
Olivier Knox Chief Washington Correspondent  February 04, 2016


Democratic presidential rivals Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton knocked each other around Thursday in their first one-on-one debate of the 2016 season, but ultimately closed ranks behind the notion of keeping the White House in their party’s hands.

Sanders spent much of the evening arguing that he was the true standard-bearer for the Democratic Party, hammering the former secretary of state over her ties to Wall Street and vote in favor of the war in Iraq. Clinton focused her energies largely on defending her progressive bona fides, while arguing that the Vermont independent was putting ideological purity on a pedestal above pragmatic proposals that could actually become reality.

But by the end of their MSNBC encounter, the two candidates closed ranks.

It started when moderator Chuck Todd asserted that Clinton did not think Sanders could be president. She looked genuinely surprised, and said, “I never said that,” then brushed aside his follow-up about whether she might pick Sanders as a running mate if she wins the party’s nomination.

“Well, I’m certainly going to unite the party, but I’m not getting ahead of myself. I think that would be a little bit presumptuous,” Clinton said. “If I’m so fortunate as to be the nominee, the first person I will call to talk to about where we go and how we get it done will be Sen. Sanders.”

Todd tried the question on Sanders.

“I agree with what the secretary said. We shouldn’t be getting ahead of ourselves,” the Vermont senator replied. ”And as I have said many times, you know, sometimes in these campaigns, things get a little bit out of hand. I happen to respect the secretary very much, I hope it’s mutual. And on our worst days, I think it is fair to say we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate.”

Clinton agreed, declaring “That’s true, that’s true.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-and-hillary-end-first-solo-debate-with-love-045328455.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-and-hillary-end-first-solo-debate-with-love-045328455.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 07, 2016, 04:00:22 PM
Quote
Chris Christie’s attacks rattle Marco Rubio
Yahoo! Politics
Jon Ward Senior Political Correspondent  February 06, 2016


MANCHESTER, N.H. — Chris Christie did not disappoint.

The New Jersey governor had made it quite clear that when he stepped on the debate stage Saturday night here, three days before the New Hampshire primary, he would be looking to draw a very sharp contrast between himself and Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla.

From the jump, Christie went after Rubio like an attack dog, tearing into the 44-year-old first-term senator and mocking his youth and inexperience. And Rubio, who increasingly has gathered momentum after a strong showing in the Iowa caucuses last week, was put on the defensive in a way that he has not been so far in this campaign.

Christie, who is in his second term as governor, needs very badly to do well in the voting on Tuesday, but is struggling to gain traction in the polls. He is bunched together with former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and Rubio behind businessman Donald [Sleezebag], and Rubio has been rising in the polls.

Christie began his critique of Rubio by saying that senators wake up thinking about what speech they will give that day or what kind of legislation they will sponsor. A governor, Christie said, wakes up thinking about “What kind of problem do I need to solve?”

Turning to Rubio, Christie addressed him directly. “You have not been involved in a consequential decision where you have had to be held accountable. You just simply haven’t,” Christie said.

Christie then aggressively made the argument that a vote for Rubio is an unwise gamble on an untested, inexperienced politician, and compared him to President Obama, who was also a first-term senator in 2008 when he was elected president.

“What we need to do is not to have the same mistake we made eight years ago,” Christie said. “I like Marco Rubio, and he’s smart person and a good guy. But he simply does not have the experience to be president of the United States.”

Rubio tried to counter by going after Christie’s fiscal record in New Jersey.

“I think the experience is not just what you did, but how it worked out. Under Chris Christie’s governorship of New Jersey, they have been downgraded nine times in their credit rating,” Rubio said.

Then Rubio tried to turn his attention and his argument away from his confrontation with Christie, and criticized Obama, talking in generalizations about how Obama is trying to change the country to make it more “like the rest of the world.”

It was an awkward transition, and one that Christie swiftly pointed out.

“You see, everybody, I want the people at home to think about this. That is what Washington, D.C., does: the drive-by shot at the beginning, with incorrect and incomplete information, and then the memorized 25-second speech that is exactly what his advisers gave him,” Christie said, as the debate audience began to roar.

“See, Marco, the thing is this: When you’re president of the United States, when you are a governor of a state, the memorized 30-second speech, where you talk about how great America is at the end of it, doesn’t solve one problem, for one person,” Christie said.

Rubio was on his heels, and scrambled to respond, saying that Christie had not wanted to return to New Jersey to deal with a blizzard earlier this month. “They had to shame you into going back,” Rubio said. It came off as a weak retort that indicated he was not prepared for the degree to which Christie was in his face.

But the clearest indication that Rubio was rattled was that he once again repeated his canned line about Obama. “This notion that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he is doing is just not true,” Rubio said. It was now a non sequitur, and Christie interjected.

“There it is, there it is,” Christie said.

Rubio and Christie went back and forth for a few more moments, with Christie getting in one more shot.

“You’ve never been responsible for anything in your entire life,” he said to Rubio. And as Rubio continued to say that Christie had not wanted to return to New Jersey at the time of the storm, Christie stopped him.

“Wait a second, is that one of the skills you get as a United States senator: ESP, also?”

Christie continued throughout the debate to use any opportunity to go after Rubio. Later, he brought up a comment Rubio had made about the 2013 immigration reform bill more than 10 minutes earlier.

“He acted as if he was somehow disembodied from the bill,” Christie said of Rubio. “It was his idea. … When you’re governor, you have to take responsibility for these things.”

Rubio, who more than any other presidential candidate this cycle has jumped in and inserted himself to gain time in debates any time his name has been mentioned, stayed silent as Christie launched this critique. He clearly did not want any part of Christie.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/chris-christies-attacks-rattle-marco-rubio-023817040.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/chris-christies-attacks-rattle-marco-rubio-023817040.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 10, 2016, 03:25:02 AM
I see Sanders took New Hampshire.

-I'm pretty sure Mylochka has it right that Sanders only ran in the first place hoping for nothing more than a Perot Effect - to get his issues out there in the conversation, treated with respect.  He can't possibly have thought to do as well as he has, not being an obvious megalomaniac, and being Bernie Sanders.

I'd say he's already won big, looking at it like that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 10, 2016, 03:54:14 PM
Quote
McCain blasts Republicans for ‘loose talk’ on torture
Yahoo! Politics
Meredith Shiner  Political correspondent  February 09, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/CHXBttezyBrOOH1vQHt1aw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/4558a4ab9cc47faa734e984ea12baf3579b19b6e.jpg)
On the day of the New Hampshire primary, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., sharply criticizes current Republican presidential candidates for their positions favoring waterboarding. (Photo: AP/Manuel Balce Ceneta)



Former GOP presidential nominee and prisoner of war John McCain wants Republicans seeking the White House to stop speaking so casually in favor of waterboarding, a form of torture which was used to interrogate prisoners in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and was found to be in violation of international human rights standards.

The issues of torture and waterboarding have been a surprise focus heading into Tuesday’s first-in-the-nation New Hampshire primary. On Monday night, Republican presidential frontrunner Donald [Sleezebag] “had a lot of fun” repeating a vulgar word used by a supporter to describe opponent Ted Cruz because the Texas senator  hedged on a waterboarding question in Saturday night’s debate. Cruz said of waterboarding that he would not “bring it back in any sort of widespread use.” While Cruz left the door open to the maligned practice in some cases, [Sleezebag] has supported its return unequivocally.

And McCain is clearly not happy with where the Republican primary race has landed on an issue he cares about deeply and personally. McCain, a fighter pilot during the Vietnam War, was a prisoner for more than five years. He has since been dedicated to ensuring the United States does not resume torturing captives.

“I know in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, many Americans feel again the grave urgency that we felt 15 years ago. But I dispute wholeheartedly that it was right for our nation to use these interrogation methods then or that is right for our nation to use them now. Waterboarding or any other form of torture is not in the best interest of justice, nor our security, nor the ideals we have sacrificed so much blood and treasure to defend,” McCain said on the Senate floor Tuesday, acknowledging the importance of New Hampshire’s primary, which he won in both 2000 and 2008.

“This question isn’t about our enemies. It’s about us. It’s about who we were, who we are and who we aspire to be. It’s about how we represent ourselves to the world. We’ve made our way in this often dangerous and cruel world not by just strictly pursuing our geopolitical interests but by exemplifying our political values in influencing other nations to embrace them,” McCain continued. “When we fight to defend our security, we fight also for an idea that all men are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights. That’s all men and women. How much safer the world would be if all nations believed the same? How much more dangerous it can become, when we forget it ourselves, even momentarily, as we learned at Abu Ghraib?”

Abu Ghraib was the prison in Iraq where the United States Army and Central Intelligence Agency were found to have committed human rights violations by interrogating prisoners with methods that met the international definitions of torture, including waterboarding.

Even the Republican establishment’s current favorite candidate, Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, has spoken in uncritical terms about future use of what the George W. Bush administration referred to euphemistically as “enhanced interrogation methods.”

In a May speech at the Council on Foreign Relations, Rubio addressed the utility of Guantánamo Bay, another U.S. base where torture was determined to have occurred in the 2000s, claiming it was “the only place” where the United States effectively gathered intelligence.

As Yahoo News reported then, Rubio said, “I believe that innocent people, peace-loving people deserve to have their rights respected. And I think terrorists who plot to kill Americans and actively are engaged in plots to attack America deserve to be in prison and taken off the battlefield. And that’s the role that Guantánamo plays. It was also the only place where we were able to gather intelligence. Today we’re not gathering nearly enough intelligence.”

Of course, the U.S. military and intelligence communities have been able to gather information from sources around the world. And Rubio’s beliefs stand in contrast to McCain’s, who used his floor speech Tuesday to implore fellow Republicans to reconsider their positions.

“These forms of torture not only fail their purpose to secure actionable intelligence to prevent further attacks on the United States and our allies but compromised our values, stained our national honor and did little practical good,” McCain said. “I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. … Now candidates are saying they will disregard the law. I thought that was our complaint with the present president of the United States.”

McCain was alluding to President Obama’s executive orders on domestic issues that have been decried by Republicans in Washington and on the trail. As a candidate, Obama had promised to close the prison at Guantánamo Bay on “day one” of his administration but has yet to do so.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/mccain-blasts-republicans-for-loose-talk-on-185546253.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/mccain-blasts-republicans-for-loose-talk-on-185546253.html)



This is not one of the many issues on which I believe reasonable people can disagree.  Torture is not the American Way - people who think otherwise may claim to love America, but undermine its basic values in favor of acting no better than the bad guys.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 10, 2016, 09:36:13 PM
"Songbird" McCain should be hung for treason. The man is a traitor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 10, 2016, 09:37:45 PM
Siiigh.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 11, 2016, 02:20:38 AM
Quote
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07/21/john-sidney-mccain-iii-patriot-or-trader/
Quote
John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,” an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.

Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.

As a rising naval officer, John McCain was surrounded by rumors of numerous adulterous affairs, such as used to be called “conduct unbecoming an officer.” Author and biographer Robert Timberg has detailed several of McCain’s sexual relationships with subordinates when serving as a Squadron Leader and an Executive Officer. I think we all know such behavior is a clear violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, in other words, a crime.

When John McCain’s application to the National War College was rejected, according to noted author and researcher Joel Skousen, he whined to daddy who pulled strings with the Secretary of the Navy.
Quote
John McCain’s 5½-year stay at the Hanoi Hilton (officially Hoa Loa Prison) has ever since been the subject of great controversy. He maintains that he was tortured and otherwise badly mistreated. One of many who disagree is Dennis Johnson, imprisoned at Hanoi and never given treatment for his broken leg.

He reports that every time he saw McCain, who was generally kept segregated, the man was clean-shaven, dressed in fresh clothes, and appeared comfortable among North Vietnamese Army officers. He adds that he frequently heard McCain’s collaborative statements broadcast over the prison’s loud speakers.

On October 26, 1967, John McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi. The fractures of 1 leg and both arms were reportedly due to his failure to tuck them in during ejection. According to U.S. News & World Report (May 14, 1973),

John McCain didn’t wait long before offering military information in return for medical care. While an extraordinary patient at Gi Lam Hospital, he was visited by a number of dignitaries, including, to quote John McCain himself, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the national hero of Dienbienphu.

Jack McLamb is a highly respected name in law enforcement circles. After 9 years of clandestine operations in Cambodia and unmentionable areas, he returned home to Phoenix where he became one of the most decorated police officers on record. Twice McLamb was named Officer of the Year. He went on to become an FBI hostage negotiator. This man has stated that every one of the many former POWs he has talked with consider McCain a traitor.

States McLamb, “He was never tortured…The Vietnamese Communists called him the Songbird, that’s his code name, Songbird McCain, because he just came into the camp singing and telling them everything they wanted to know.” McLamb further quotes former POWs as saying John McCain starred in 32 propaganda videos in which he denounced his country and comrades.

The Glavnoje Razvedyvatel’noje Upravlenije is the Soviet’s military intelligence division. Numerous sources confirm that during the Nam Era, the English-speaking Vietnamese who conducted interrogations of American prisoners were always overseen by Russian GRU officers. The ranking GRU officer at the Hanoi Hilton had a multilingual teenage son who was tasked with translating all interrogation reports into Russian. He would become known only as T.

According to T who interpreted all interrogations and notes pertaining to John McCain during the latter’s stay from December, 1969, to March, 1973, when a well-fed looking McCain’s was released, privileges were extended. These included time at a furnished apartment in Hanoi – furnished with 2 prostitutes. John McCain would attribute such absences to solitary confinement.

It has been widely reported that following his father’s appointment as CINCPAC Commander-in-Chief of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater of operations, John McCain was offered an immediate parole. John McCain insists that he refused such a preference. Others insist that his father refused to allow such a preference. In any event, such an offer would have required the appr
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 11, 2016, 02:32:01 AM
It is a sad downside to modern communications that it's now so easy for people to live in their own fringe reality bubble.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 11, 2016, 12:46:49 PM
Its called the truth, you can watch the video of him starting the fire on youtube if you like.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 11, 2016, 03:39:57 PM
Quote
There is only one way forward for Clinton now
Yahoo! Politics
Matt Bai  National Political Columnist  February 11, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/FGBKxPT6hVjB5WBAO7aGwQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w540/4ac2711bd158e485d6f645296083221d9403cd35.jpg)
Hillary Clinton speaks on Tuesday night after the New Hampshire primary. (Photo: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)



In the days before Bernie Sanders positively obliterated Hillary Clinton in New Hampshire, raising the very real specter that she could lose the nomination, I found myself thinking a lot about an exchange she had with voters during a CNN town hall in Derry.

A tired-looking man rose and told Clinton he had terminal colon cancer, and he wanted to know what she would do to help advance the conversation about end-of-life decisions. Clinton seemed visibly moved.

“I don’t have an easy or glib answer for you,” Clinton said candidly, adding that she needed to immerse herself in the ethical and scientific writings.

Not five minutes later, another voter asked Clinton how she would stand up to Republican attacks. She scoffed knowingly and let loose a recitation of how victimized she had been over the years, and how horrible it was to be the target of smear campaigns, and how she was still standing anyway. “It’s unlike anything you’ve ever gone through,” Clinton said.

I thought to myself: Tell that to the guy with colon cancer.

A better politician would have said yes, of course she’d have to deal with some attacks, but that’s life in the arena and she feels lucky to serve. A great politician, like her husband in his prime, would have actually meant it.

But Hillary, truth be told, just isn’t a very gifted politician. And while Sanders focuses relentlessly on the big themes that preoccupy voters, Clinton’s campaign feels like it’s all about her — her résumé, her mettle, her 25 years of suffering through the indignities of public service. “I’m with her” is the slogan for a campaign that seems to signify nothing beyond the joyless accretion of personal loyalties.

Clinton really should beat Sanders in the weeks ahead, but she has only one clear winning strategy here, near as I can tell. She has to stop allowing the campaign to become a referendum on her — and turn it, instead, into a referendum on the guy she wants to replace.

That won’t be Clinton’s instinct, of course. The first thing she’s going to do now, apparently, is the thing the Clintons have generally done when backed against a wall: blame the staff.

Even before New Hampshire buried Clinton in bad news, handing her a 22-point defeat in which she even lost women by double digits, stories were circulating about a shakeup at the Brooklyn headquarters (where, you would think, Clinton’s high command now feels like the Lost Battalion caught behind enemy lines, surrounded by turtleneck-wearing hipsters with “Bernie” signs in their windows).

All of which reminds me of what a scandal-damaged Gary Hart said in 1988 when his chief operative in Iowa, a young law student named Martin O’Malley, informed him that he had registered at zero percent in the caucuses and apologized for letting him down.

“Martin,” Hart said dryly, “this was not an organizational problem.”

Clinton doesn’t have an organizational problem. Oh, sure, there are probably too many informal advisers, too much conflicting advice, no shortage of arrogance and infighting. But that’s nothing new in the Clinton orbit. Only the cast of characters ever changes, and even then not much.

No, Clinton’s problem is the moment and her inability to meet it. What happened in New Hampshire Tuesday wasn’t just some ideological rebellion in both parties, a predictable insider-outsider conflict with less predictable results.

This was the shock wave of 2008 finally rising to the surface of our fractured politics. What Sanders and Donald [Sleezebag] embody, each in his own strident way, is the disgust that’s been building for the eight years since Lehman Brothers collapsed and took the markets with it — eight years in which the wealthy and their wholly owned political parties recovered fabulously while everyone else stagnated.

President Obama once told a roomful of bankers, in frustration, that he was the only thing standing between them and the pitchforks. Turns out he was right, and now that he’s stepping aside, the pitchforks are overturning our politics.

Here’s where Clinton finds herself in a real box. Having represented New York and its chief industry, finance, she’s nowhere near a credible populist; the more she tries to sound like Sanders and tout her history as a progressive rebel who once worked for the Children’s Defense Fund, the more she comes off as desperate and expedient.

But if instead Clinton tries to own her real convictions and make the case for a more pragmatic approach, she’s seen as an ideological apostate, unwilling to take on the system. And so her choice is to be either a less genuine candidate than Sanders or a less progressive one — or some days both.

A supremely talented candidate might navigate a way out of this box, but as I said, that’s not Clinton’s superpower. Her team’s strategy for beating back Sanders seems to rely, instead, on demographics. The coming states will feature more black and Latino voters, and Clinton is assuming they won’t be as impressed as voters in New Hampshire were by the rumpled white guy from Vermont.

That’s a pretty shaky assumption, if you ask me.

Remember, Bill Clinton, who once commanded the loyalty of African-American voters like no Democrat since Robert Kennedy, hasn’t appeared on a ballot for 20 years. A lot of younger black and Latino voters don’t even remember the Clinton years, and they’re just as tired of the status quo as their white counterparts.

It won’t be so easy for Hillary to convince minority and younger white voters, who soundly rejected her in New Hampshire this week, that somehow she represents real change and progressive ideals.

But they believe that still about Barack Obama, and this is where Sanders has left her an opening.

Because for the past few weeks, if you’ve been paying attention, Sanders has subtly extended his indictment of his party’s timid status quo right to the door of the White House. I don’t know what Obama said to Sanders when the two of them sat down to talk in January, but whatever it was, it left Sanders in an uncharitable mood.

Since then, he has said (in a string of angry tweets, no less) that real progressives can’t be for trade deals like the Trans-Pacific Partnership. He has said real progressives can’t take money from Wall Street. Having apparently appointed himself Political Philosophy Czar, Sanders has said you can’t call yourself both a moderate and a progressive at the same time.

Sanders has brushed aside the health care law that is Obama’s signature achievement (and his most politically costly), calling for a single-payer system and castigating pharmaceutical companies as if “Obamacare” had never existed.

In other words, while he praises Obama in debates, Sanders is saying, unmistakably, that Obama hasn’t been a progressive president and doesn’t embody systemic change. And that’s the cause — rather than her own long résumé — that Clinton, having played a pivotal role in the administration, should champion if she wants to get between Sanders and the voters she needs.

If I were Clinton right now, I’d be asking some pretty simple questions every chance I got in South Carolina and Nevada and Michigan.

Who gets to claim the mantle of change — the nation’s first black president, who overturned the old order on health care and Wall Street regulation and Cuba and Iran, or a senator who’s voted with the gun industry? How seriously can you take a candidate who doesn’t think Obama represents a real departure from the status quo?

A vote for Clinton, at this point, has to be a vote of validation for Obama’s legacy, too.

It’s not a perfect strategy. You might point out that Obama himself once derided Clinton, eons ago, as shifty and calculating. You might point out, as I have, that elections are supposed to be about the future and not the past.

But here’s the reality: To this point, Clinton has run a campaign that’s all about her bona fides, and nobody’s swooning. If she’s still defending her Wall Street speeches and whining about the vast right-wing conspiracy a few weeks from now, the nomination could very well slip away from her, again.

Clinton’s best move now is to lash herself tightly to the man who once beat her and hope it’s enough to ride out the wave.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/there-is-only-one-way-1362390891388982.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 11, 2016, 03:44:25 PM
Quote
Christie, Fiorina drop GOP presidential bids
Yahoo! Politics
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  February 10, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/8fYdOWPc0ISW7zlo2gTPwQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1000/022676ebeb2cfafe0650320010502888602c5c81.jpg)
Chris Christie and Carly Fiorina have suspended their campaigns for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination. (Photo: Robert F. Bukaty, Matt Rourke/AP)



One day after dismal finishes in the New Hampshire primary, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina have suspended their campaigns for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination.

Fiorina announced her decision via Facebook. Christie told staffers of his move during a late-afternoon meeting, a spokeswoman said.

It was a disappointing end for the New Jersey governor, who was once expected to be among the favorites to win the GOP nomination.

Christie spent more time campaigning in New Hampshire than any other candidate, participating in more than 70 town hall events in the Granite State. But he was unable to translate those gatherings into votes — receiving just 7.4 percent support among New Hampshire GOP voters.

The Christie campaign may ultimately be remembered for playing the foil to Marco Rubio’s would-be rise during the final Republican debate before the primary, attacking the Florida senator for sticking to talking points during a heated exchange just three days before New Hampshire cast its votes.

“You want someone who is prepared, experienced, mature and tested to get on the stage against Hillary Clinton,” Christie said on CNN hours before Tuesday’s primary results were announced. Rubio’s “just not ready,” Christie added. “He doesn’t have the depth or the substance. And he doesn’t have it because he hasn’t experienced anything.”

Christie added: “Maybe he should run for governor of Florida and do something like that, and actually get some real experience.”

With Christie gone, just two governors — Ohio Gov. John Kasich and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush — are still in the running for the GOP nomination.

Fiorina, who finished behind Christie in New Hampshire, vowed to remain active in politics. She too struggled for traction in early voting despite making a splash in early debates.

“While I suspend my candidacy today, I will continue to travel this country and fight for those Americans who refuse to settle for the way things are and a status quo that no longer works for them,” Fiorina wrote in a statement posted to her Facebook page. “I will continue to serve in order to restore citizen government to this great nation so that together we may fulfill our potential.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/christie-fiorina-drop-gop-presidential-bids-220444220.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/christie-fiorina-drop-gop-presidential-bids-220444220.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 12, 2016, 03:30:09 AM
Quote
Marco Rubio: Republican Presidential Candidate Says He Chipped His Tooth Eating a Frozen Twix Bar

“I just bit into a Twix bar and I go, ‘Man this Twix bar’s got something really hard in it. And I go, ‘Oh my gosh, I cracked my tooth," Rubio told reporters on Thursday.
No need to actually check the story after that, I think.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 12, 2016, 02:18:20 PM
Caramel or peanut butter twix? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 12, 2016, 02:28:56 PM
I do not know...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 14, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Quote
http://www.westernjournalism.com/federal-judge-just-made-major-ruling-that-may-devastate-hillarys-election-chances/
Quote
Federal Judge Just Made MAJOR Ruling That May Devastate Hillary’s Election Chances
Under the ruling, the State Department must...
Gerry Urbanek February 11, 2016 at 5:30pm
In a ruling that could prove devastating to the Hillary Clinton campaign, a federal judge has ruled that the State Department must immediately begin publishing Clinton’s private emails.

The ruling, which came down Thursday from U.S. District Court Judge Rudolph Contreras, is in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed last year by Vice reporter Jason Leopold.

After missing the initial deadline for release back in January, the State Department again attempted to stall release until after the Democratic primary contests. Arguing that this delay would prevent voters from making an informed decision about Clinton in the upcoming caucuses, Leopold’s team convinced Judge Contreras that an immediate release was necessary.

The sad thing is her getting arrested migh be the only thing that stops her from being the nominee.
Apparently she already has the delegates locked up.
Quote
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/02/10/thanks-to-superdelegates-hillary-clinton-still-wins-after-getting-crushed-in-new-hampshire.html

Quote
Thanks To Superdelegates, Hillary Clinton Still Wins After Getting Crushed In New Hampshire
By Jason Easley on Wed, Feb 10th, 2016
Bernie Sanders may have crushed Hillary Clinton in the New Hampshire popular vote, but thanks to superdelegates, Clinton will leave New Hampshire with the same number of delegates as Sanders.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 15, 2016, 10:32:04 PM
Quote
No evidence McCain was a traitor
Politifact
By Shawn Zeller on Thursday, January 17th, 2008 at 12:00 a.m.



In an echo of the attacks from the 2000 South Carolina primary that dealt a critical blow to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona senator is a traitor.
It says that when he was a POW, McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the enemy.

But it provides scant evidence to back up this claim and it is strongly contradicted by many other accounts reviewed by PolitiFact: interviews with other POWs, an author who has written a McCain biography and the senator's own accounts.

Robert Timberg, author of  John McCain: An American Odyssey  , who has interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group's  Web site.  The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it "a vicious attack."

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, "Hanoi Hilton Songbird." The second page is headlined "FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III" and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1 pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors "Okay, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in "collaborations with the enemy," as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir  Faith of My Fathers,  McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, "I didn't intend to keep my word."

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

"We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic."

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain's campaign, said the flyer is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

The man behind the flyer is Gerard "Jerry" W. Kiley, 61, of Garnerville, N.Y., who says he served in Vietnam for about a year. He describes his group as a one-man operation unaffiliated with any political party or campaign. He says he opposes McCain because of the senator's efforts to normalize relations with the Vietnamese communist government and because, in his view, McCain has helped the U.S. government keep information about POWs classified.

"John McCain has made sure the information concerning the lives of Americans we clearly abandoned after the war remain in government files 40 years later," he says.

He teamed with political activist Ted Sampley of North Carolina to distribute the fliers to South Carolina media outlets this month. Sampley did not respond to requests for comment.

Sampley also is a longtime McCain opponent. In 2000, he gained attention when he called McCain a "Manchurian candidate" on his Web site and said that he was an agent of the Vietnamese. In 1993, Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a McCain aide, according to a 2004 article in the  New York Times. 

McCain is not the first politician to draw the men's ire. In 2004, they formed Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

Kiley has twice interrupted events featuring Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai, forcing an American flag in his hand on one occasion and throwing red wine at him on another, according to a Secret Service agent who later arrested Kiley. He admits he threw the wine, but he was later acquitted in federal court of threatening Khai.

Kiley says he bases his most damning charges against McCain — that McCain gave information about the schedule of U.S. attacks in Vietnam in 1967, the year his plane was shot down and McCain was captured — on the word of Earl Hopper, a retired Army colonel.

In an interview, Hopper's wife, Patty, said that Hopper wasn't able to address the charges over the phone because of poor hearing. She said that Hopper has long been involved in the POW movement and that Earl Hopper's son, Earl Jr., is missing in action in Vietnam.

She cited as evidence for Hopper's charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in  U.S. News and World Report  and what she said were "declassified U.S. military documents" she claimed to possess describing McCain's collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain's book, corroborated by Timberg's book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.
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About this statement:


Published: Thursday, January 17th, 2008 at 12:00 a.m.

Researched by: Shawn Zeller

Edited by: Amy Hollyfield

Subjects: Candidate Biography

Sources:

Interviews: George "Bud" Day, former POW; Orson Swindle, former POW; Robert Timberg, author; Gerard Kiley, Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain; Patty Hopper, wife of retired U.S. Army Colonel Earl Hopper
 Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain 

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain,  Flyer "FACT SHEET: Military record of John Sidney McCain III" 

New Times of Phoenix,  Is John McCain a war hero? 

Washington Post, "Yanking His McChain; Web Site Posits That Candidate Is a Southeast Asia Pawn," by Michael Powell and Tom Edsall, Feb. 16, 2000

New York Times, "McCain Fights Old Foe Who Now Fights Kerry," by Michael Janofsky," Feb. 14, 2004

Adweek.com, "New Anti-Kerry Ads Air in N.C.," by Gregory Solman, Aug. 31, 2004

United Press International, "Some vets question Kerry's antiwar past," by Richard Tomkins, July 28, 2004

U.S. Veteran Dispatch, "Vietnam Vet Found Not Guilty of Assault on Vietnam Prime Minister," by Ted Sampley, November 2005.

2005 U.S. District Court records of case United States of America vs. Gerard W. Kiley

U.S. News & World Report, "How the POWs fought back," by John McCain, May 14, 1973

Robert Timberg, The Nightingale's Song, touchstone/Simon & Schuster, 1995

John McCain with Mark Salter, Faith of My Fathers, Perennial, 1999
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 16, 2016, 10:09:59 PM
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http://polidics.com/ethics/fellow-pows-say-john-mccain-was-a-coward-and-a-traitor-in-viet-nam.html
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Fellow POW’s say John McCain Was a Coward and a Traitor in Viet Nam.
by MR. CHARRINGTON on JANUARY 20, 2008
I remember some weeks ago John McCain was having a cow that the NY Times was going to print an article and a battle ensued. No mention was ever made as to why McCain was actually begging and threatening the NY Times over this article. No further mention as been made about this article and I wonder if this bitter fight that took place according to the editor of the NY Times wasn’t because of the information contained in the video’s below.

John McCain has stood in the way of many a family, loved one and groups from getting our MIA’s and POW’s back. Even though they have more enough proof that there were over a 100 POW’s that were still being held and sent to other country’s. These groups and families point out that John McCain himself is stopping them from getting our fellow countrymen home.

Why?

Fellow POW’s are sure the reason is he was a coward and a traitor as a POW in Viet Nam and it would ruin his political career if this were ever to find its way to the main stream media. They have put together eye witness accounts that describe McCain’s traitorous actions during his time as a prisoner in Viet Nam by his fellow prisoners. Former Senators, Governors  and political records flat out nail John McCain as a scared little man on the run from a history of lies and deceit.
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http://gotnews.com/busted-yes-john-mccain-is-a-traitor-heres-the-proof/
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GotNews.com is announcing a $5,000 bounty to find the tape of John McCain praising his N. Vietnamese captors.

Why do we know that tape exists?

We know, in part, thanks to Ron Unz’s article about McCain’s war service. Family friends of Charles C. Johnson’s grandfather, who was himself a Rear Admiral, have also told Johnson that they heard those broadcasts when stationed abroad.

The tape is relevant because of conflicting accounts John McCain has given about his service in Vietnam. He has said that his arm was broken by his captors but here he is saying that his arm was damaged when he got shot down.
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https://hope2012.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/songbird-mccain-the-evidence-in-his-own-words-his-fellow-veterans-and-his-captors/

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‘SONGBIRD’ MCCAIN: THE EVIDENCE – IN HIS OWN WORDS, HIS FELLOW VETERANS, AND HIS CAPTORS
July 26, 2008, 6:33 am
Filed under: 2008 election, cover-up, history, interesting, McCain, news, politics, prison camps, troops, Uncategorized, war, war atrocities, war profiteering
Related: More 2008 Election Posts
John McCain: Prisoner of War – A First Person Account – US News & World Report from 1973, published online 1/28/08

My six years of hell: John McCain recalls life a prisoner of war in Vietnam – Daily Mail, UK 2/8/08

Excerpt from “Faith of My Fathers” by McCain

“Hero” John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW? – CounterPunch 6/13/08
EXCERPTS: “on March 25, 1999, two of his fellow POWs, Ted Guy and Gordon “Swede” Larson told the Phoenix New Times that, while they could not guarantee that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it. As Larson said, “My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted’s knowledge, he was not physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people were released from.”Guy and Larson’s claims are given credence by McCain’s vehement opposition to releasing the government’s debriefings of Vietnam War POWs. McCain gave Michael Isikoff a peek at his debriefs, and Isikoff declared there was “nothing incriminating” in them, apart from the redactions.
McCain had a unique POW experience. Initially, he was taken to the infamous Hanoi Hilton prison camp, where he was interrogated. By McCain’s own account, after three or four days, he cracked. He promised his Vietnamese captors, “I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”His Vietnamese capturers soon realized their POW, John Sidney McCain III, came from a well-bred line of American military elites. McCain’s father, John Jr., and grandfather, John Sr., were both full Admirals. A destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, is named after both of them. While his son was held captive in Hanoi, John McCain Jr., from 1968 to 1972, was the Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Pacific Command; Admiral McCain was in charge of all US forces in the Pacific including those fighting in Vietnam. ..The Admiral’s bad boy was used to special treatment and his captors knew that. They were working him.For his part, McCain acknowledges that the Vietnamese rushed him to a hospital, but denies he was given any “special medical treatment.” However….two weeks into his stay at the Vietnamese hospital, the Hanoi press began quoting him. It was not “name rank and serial number, or kill me,” as specified by the military code of conduct. McCain divulged specific military information: he gave the name of the aircraft carrier on which he was based, the number of US pilots that had been lost, the number of aircraft in his flight formation, as well as information about the location of rescue ships…
On the other hand, according to one source, McCain’s collaboration may have had very real consequences. Retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper, a veteran of World War II, Korea and Vietnam, contends that the information that McCain divulged classified information North Vietnam used to hone their air defense system…McCain told his North Vietnamese captors, “highly classified information, the most important of which was the package routes, which were routes used to bomb North Vietnam. He gave in detail the altitude they were flying, the direction, if they made a turn… he gave them what primary targets the United States was interested in.” Hopper contends that the information McCain provided allowed the North Vietnamese to adjust their air-defenses. As result, Hopper claims, the US lost sixty percent more aircraft and in 1968, “called off the bombing of North Vietnam, because of the information McCain had given to them.

Its worth noting that its his fellow vets that despise McCain and call him a traitor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 16, 2016, 10:41:32 PM
Its worth noting that its his fellow vets that despise McCain and call him a traitor.

There are vets on both sides of the issue, but the ones crying traitor have failed to produce any real tangible evidence.  You bold claims of his accusers, that doesn't make it evidence.  Actually read what BU posted for a change, it specifically addresses Hopper's claims, which you are doubling down on.  They are a mixture of partial truths and conjecture. 


I hate McCain for reasons entirely unrelated to this, but turning a blind eye to counter points doesn't profit anyone. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2016, 10:54:04 PM
For a change?  :'(

And yeah; I've decided not to waste my time proving that I can find more websites that pretend impartiality and say otherwise than von can find hit sites making outlandish claims about this.  You can find someone pushing any piece of crap you care to on the innerewebs, and that's all that would prove.

-We can all waste our time far more profitably taking dumps on The Pig and Mrs. Clinton...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2016, 12:46:02 AM
...At any rate, I intended to be posting an article about a Republican senator denouncing torture, not, y'know, start a discussion on the senator...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on February 17, 2016, 02:03:07 AM
Additionally, "John McCain is a traitor" is not a counter to the argument that we shouldn't torture people.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2016, 02:15:17 AM
-Which we really, really shouldn't.  Torture is for the weak and evil, and I do not accept that the US has to be either.  Screw those terror nuts and let's be better than them, or what's the damn point?

If you don't love what America tries to stand for, I'd argue that you don't really love America...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2016, 06:22:48 PM
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/HOc0hTbU6Zo9QVCRfm0B4Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1200/e85fed1ab9a46a45253301abf1294dbb6e906f93.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2016, 01:42:46 AM
-Rusty, how are you leaning with Rand out?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 21, 2016, 04:19:16 AM
I spent  about 10 days of the last two weeks in the Palmetto State.

I was exposed to a lot. Ultimately it tended to re-enforce my views.

Carson isn't cut out to actually be president any more than Rand was. Maybe that's why we haven't had any medical doctors become presidents. Something to do with disposition. Good with decisions, not good with dealing with other egos.

I really like and respect Jeb Bush and his Dad as people. While Jeb's brother makes me laugh when he makes a self-deprecating jokes, he and his Mom get on my nerves in short order. I really don't want another Clinton or Bush as president because I think that the USA is dangerously close to becoming an oligarchy. I think he would have made a much better president than George W., but please, no more Clintons and Bushes, or Kennedys, for that matter.

Cruze is the shrewdest Theocon ever. He always takes more of a divide and conquer than a consensus building approach. A demolisher rather than a construction guy. The Federal Government is his enemy. Thing is, if he ever becomes president, he'll be responsible for making the government work, and his career has been  more about stopping the government, and his campaign has been about repealing things, so that is the kind of mandate he would have, if any. Revoking all of Obama's executive orders, Obama care, and gay marriages. I've said before that his idea of abolishing Obamacare ASAP is scarey to me, since he has no plans for replacement, and the previous system no longer exists in total. Kinda like scrapping the new lemon you're driving before arranging alternative transportation, or putting the wheels back on the old car and getting it on the road again. The way he reads the establishment clause is = Christianity is the established religion of the land, and Congress shall make no law which offends it. 

Rubio is the best speaker/campaigner/candidate in the race, but his inexperience and his adamant adherence to the failed NeoCon interventionist domino theory scare me too. He'd have us fighting Russia, Iran, Syria, and ISIS at once in short order. Imagine the death, destruction, debt, and blowback from that. Or a president wrapping himself in the flag and saying, you can't criticize me without aiding and comforting our many enemies, we're at war! I need more authority!

[Sleezebag] reminds me of an elementary school braggart and bully with ADD. He has trouble completing an answer to a question without changing the subject. He lacks detail and substance. He tends to say things like America sucks, things will be different when I'm president, I have a plan, trust me. When somebody ( journalist or politician ) criticizes that, he goes ad hominem. When somebody goes ad hominem against him, he threatens to sue. When somebody beats him, he says no fair, they lied and  cheated. When somebody checks his facts or pins him down, he weasels.

Sure, I think he's a great deal maker, and he could do better than many of the deals and treaties we have in place. I understand that it makes no sense to show your hand before negotiating. But as often as he says trust me, I get along with everybody, trust me, I have a plan, trust me, I'll make them pay, I'm beginning to think he's  bluffing. I automatically distrust somebody who frequently tells me to trust them. The other problem is that he sounds like he wants to tear everything up and start over. If he doesn't honor an existing deal, how long will other countries honor deals with him, or with us after he's gone?

He claims he won't issue any executive orders. That's hilarious. That's what he does know how to do.


If we're lucky, we'll get Kasich. His state is diverse like America, he tries to represent everybody, and he governs them very well. He has the best resume by far. He's a consensus builder and he gets things done, and he's fiscally responsible. He's positive. He's improving as a candidate. I just don't see him surviving the Republican primary process.

I still have hope that he might get the nod as VP, or perhaps a cabinet post, even in a democratic administration.

So, I guess Kasich is my guy now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2016, 05:39:44 PM
Well, Kasich's nine terms in the House and 2 hitches as a Governor makes him the only Republican running who meets my minimum qualification standards, so good on him for that.  Rubio needs to pay more dues first and get some executive experience, but could have a real future if he does (and doesn't run again first - you only get two chances before you're a loser).

I see Bush is out - fingers crossed that that'll help the party establishment unite behind not-Pig, not-Cruz now that the one they wanted isn't an option.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2016, 08:58:29 PM
Some lengthy comments follow...

Quote
Hillary Clinton, winning women, takes Nevada in victory over Sanders
Yahoo! Politics
Liz Goodwin, Andrew Romano and Daniel Klaidman February 20, 2016



Hillary Clinton beat out rival Bernie Sanders to win the Nevada caucuses after a frenetic final blitz of campaigning, denying Sanders a golden opportunity to capitalize on his early momentum and raising questions about where else he can win in the weeks ahead.

“Some may have doubted us, but we never doubted each other,” Clinton said at her victory party in the Caesars Palace casino on the Las Vegas Strip.

Clinton went on to outline the problems facing the country, from “crumbling classes” in South Carolina to the toxic water in Flint, Mich. “Americans are right to be angry,” she said. “But we’re also hungry for real solutions.”

Sanders outspent Clinton 2 to 1 on TV ads in the state, and managed to build up his campaign operation to rival hers in size. But Team Clinton, which had been in the state since April under the direction of Barack Obama campaign alum Emmy Ruiz, was better organized. Clinton’s  female-focused outreach strategy  in Nevada paid off, with exit polls showing Clinton winning among women by 16 percentage points, reversing the embarrassing New Hampshire trend of women choosing Sanders. Clinton once led the state by large margins, but a poll last week showed she and Sanders in a dead heat. The former secretary of state  canceled a campaign rally in Florida this week  and spent an extra day campaigning in Nevada.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/qYfPwgJnKJE5QRsxGI1r8w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTgxODtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/1f9864376033bfb32a7457b74768e0d8e91070fa.jpg)
Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton won the Democratic caucuses in Nevada, where she campaigned actively to secure a victory. (Photo: John Locher/AP)


Her high-profile surrogates, including actress Eva Longoria and Cabinet member Tom Perez, flooded the state and held multiple events every day, out-campaigning Sanders’ team.

“We knew that the race was going to be tight, and we wanted to make sure that we left nothing on the field,” said Jorge Neri, Clinton’s Nevada field organizer.

Female voters who flocked to a casino caucus site Saturday morning said they liked Sanders but ultimately sided with Clinton, in part because they believed she would understand their issues better than Sanders.

“First of all, she’s a woman; she will understand a woman’s needs,” said Fernanda Breciado, 55, a housekeeping supervisor at Caesars Palace who was voting during her lunch break. “She has the support of the greatest president,” she added, referring to Bill Clinton.

Jennifer Palmieri, a Clinton spokeswoman, said Hillary’s performance with women was good news. “It’s one state, it’s one race, but that’s pretty good,” she said. “We understand we have work to do with white men.”

The state brought out tension between the two candidates. On Thursday, an exhausted-looking Sanders and Clinton crossed paths at a town hall focused on immigration issues in Las Vegas. Clinton took a poke at Sanders’ earlier criticism of Obama and her husband. “Maybe it’s that Sen. Sanders wasn’t really a Democrat until he decided to run for president. He doesn’t know what the last two Democratic presidents did,” she said as the crowd booed. In  an interview with BET  later, Sanders suggested Clinton was heaping praise on Obama merely to pander to black voters.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/MNM86Z_AkP3Y7EPVwypyGw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTkwMztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/d2504db2861028be28c1606259a47c1d042bd826.jpg)
Democratic U.S. presidential candidate Hillary Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, gesture in front of supporters after she was projected to be the winner in the Democratic caucuses in Las Vegas on Saturday. (Photo: David Becker/Reuters)


Eleven miles away from Clinton’s victory party on the Las Vegas Strip, Sanders’ supporters reassembled at the Henderson Pavilion, site of  the Vermont senator’s final pre-caucus rally  the night before, to cheer on their candidate. Campaign officials originally planned to start the program at 5 p.m. local time, suggesting that they believed the caucuses would be close and the votes would take a long time to count. But Clinton was declared the winner at about 2:30 p.m., and Sanders wound up speaking earlier than expected. About 400 supporters, who were still streaming in when Sanders took the stage, clustered near the front of the 2,444-seat amphitheater waving “A Future to Believe In” signs.

“You know, five weeks ago we were 25 points behind in the polls,” Sanders said. “We’ve made some real progress.”

Sanders accepted his defeat, but it was hard to ignore the notes of defiance and even defensiveness in his remarks. He “applaud[ed]” Clinton’s campaign for being “very aggressive” — not exactly a compliment. He warned that Clinton’s “very wealthy and powerful super-PAC — a super-PAC that receives lots of money from Wall Street and special interests” would be coming after him in the weeks ahead. And he repeatedly argued that “momentum” was more important than victory.

“What this entire campaign has been about is the issue of momentum,” Sanders said. “Taking on the establishment is not easy. … It is clear to me and to many observers that the wind is at our backs.”

If Sanders could have pulled out a victory in Nevada, it would have gone a long way toward silencing critics who say he can only win among white voters, and lacks the broad appeal to be the party’s nominee. Entrance polls found that black voters went for Clinton 3 to 1, and while the same polls showed Sanders outpacing Clinton among Latinos, it’s likely those results were misleading.

In an email to backers, Sanders argued that even in losing Nevada, he had proven he could do well among a diverse pool of voters. “Nevada was supposed to be a state ‘tailor-made’ for the Clinton campaign, and a place she once led by almost 40 points,” he said. “But today we sent a message that will stun the political and financial establishment of this country: Our campaign can win anywhere.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/O4MiFIG1bevTYgJOchdAcw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTgwOTtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/4de0f7f588c77c77321ea4990782bafedb55e81a.jpg)
Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders speaks to supporters at a rally in Henderson, Nev., after rival candidate Hillary Clinton was projected to be the winner in the Nevada Democratic caucuses on Saturday. (Photo: Jim Young/Reuters)


That claim will be put to the test in the coming weeks as the Democratic nominating contest first moves on to South Carolina — where black voters typically play a decisive role and where Clinton leads Sanders by an average of 24 percentage points — before heading into a rapid succession of March primaries and caucuses widely thought to favor the former secretary of state.

“I’ve always believed March was going to be Hillary Clinton’s month,” David Plouffe, Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign manager and a current Clinton supporter,  said this week. “The Texases of the world, the Georgias of the world — they become very important. Michigan becomes very important on March 8. And then March 15 is, I think, the most important day on the calendar — those large Midwestern and Southern states (Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio), where I think she will do very well.”

As the results came rolling in, top Clinton backers began to tout Nevada as a game-changer. “This victory had to overcome the momentum Sanders got in New Hampshire and the spin from the pundits,” said Robert Zimmerman, a Clinton fundraiser and Democratic National Committee member. “It really speaks to Hillary Clinton’s message and also the strength of their campaign organization.”

But in an interview with Yahoo News after Sanders’ speech, senior adviser Tad Devine disagreed, pointing to Massachusetts, Vermont, Colorado, Minnesota and “the Midwest” as contests Sanders could win going forward.

“I think [Nevada] proves that they are not in total meltdown,” Devine added, referring to the Clinton campaign. “And it proves that we can begin to coalesce a winning campaign coalition in America. This is just the beginning.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clinton-winning-women-takes-nevada-in-233933736.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/hillary-clinton-winning-women-takes-nevada-in-233933736.html)



I said (on the first page of this thread, IIRC) before the real campaigning began that it was Mrs. Clinton's race to lose, and that we'd probably better reconcile ourselves to four years of her and the intolerable non-stop bad-mouthing against that comes with her.  I am disappointed in this outcome, but hardly surprised.

I will say that she, in a patchwork sort of way, meets my minimum qualification standards.  Between her multiple extensive roles in the executive branch and her hitch in the Senate, she's undeniably had the chance to get a sound feel for how Washington works, and spent so much time in and around the Oval Office as to constitute a very credible, or better, substitute for gubernatorial executive credentials.

I think it would be entirely like Mr. Sanders to stay in there fighting all the way to the convention, long after he's lost (again, I think he never ever expected to have this much success, running for a Perot effect instead, which he should definitely get) but I predict, moderate-to-high confidence, that he'll be out of contention well before the primaries get to NC - and I'm going to put on my shoes and vote for him anyway.  I reckon I know what HE stands for.

The biggest (credible) knock on Mrs. Clinton is that she's a political opportunist with no real convictions.  I'd quibble that her real problem is that she's a terrible, too-obviously-calculating campaigner with a tin ear for affecting normal human emotions in public.  I gather that the origin of the irrational-seeming-in-its-intensity hatred of her on the right was some remarks she frequently made early on campaigning for Mr. Clinton - the "two for the price of one" stuff.  Okay, she wasn't the candidate, and so that was out of place in a real sense, and I get that (though any good feminist could point out that the First Woman President is going to be a woman who "doesn't know her place" and SCREW YOU, PATRIARCHY) but, I dunno; the First Lady is a package deal with the winning candidate, and she was indeed, once installed as 'co-president', the most working, effective, First Lady since Mrs. Roosevelt.

That problem with her being a terrible campaigner v. soulless opportunist of poor character is a difference that ends up making no difference - whether she has no real convictions or not, I don't actually know what she really stands for, thus my shoes going on to go lodge a protest vote at the first opportunity.

But see - Kasich's not going to get it on the other side, barring a miracle, and we're going to be stuck with yet another battle of the weak midgets this presidential cycle.

At least she's (arguably) qualified...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2016, 09:16:48 PM
Oh - and in case it isn't obvious, I'd totally post the equivalent article on the right -I'm not pretending my biases aren't on my sleeve in this thread, but still- if only it wasn't so very wall-to-wall full of a certain someone in regard to whom I refuse to be part of the problem by talking about him non-stop, which is what he wants more than anything.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 22, 2016, 12:12:17 AM
Yo Elok - this is from half the thread ago, but some abortion and death penalty conversation happened, and RE: God and Mammon, here:

You'll find my stance on pretty much EVERYTHING religiously based is it shouldn't be against THE LAW. 

Against my personal religion/code/etc DOES NOT mean I should advocate that it be against THE LAW.  My belief in my right to practice my own religion is only as strong as my belief in YOUR right to practice YOURS.  Therefore I have no qualms being, sometimesl literally, devil's advocate in defending someone's right to do something I might find "sinful".
I believe I tried to more-or-less say that a few posts up.  If you're convicted that something's wrong, persuading others of it is your moral duty - and far more effective than laws, frankly, if you pull it off.

This has been the FUNDAMENTAL error of the political church people for my entire political adulthood.  They harm the church by making themselves obnoxious - pissing the cost of their moral activism away dabbling in affairs that are Caesar's not God's, and thus doing their duty wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 22, 2016, 07:24:27 AM
On the Democratic side, my contempt for The Shrew is well know. I think she's one of the most disingenuous people I've ever seen, even among lawyers and politicians. Her denial of health care benefits to the hundreds of people working on her health care task force staff while insisting that health care was a universal right is a classic example.

I think I saw the real Hillary on the news lately, while she was telling an Arkansas anecdote and imitating a dog "Arf! Arf! Arf!" .  I could tolerate that Hillary, because I think she was speaking from her heart at the moment, and not from her script or lawbook.

While Bernie is usually a ranting grumpy old guy, I think he is genuine. As I've said before, I think he is quite right about Citizens United. Corporations aren't people.

Of course, I also think he's delusional. His Wall Street tax will simply drive the US financial markets to Canada, or the Bahamas or someplace. Then where does he get his money after he's shooed away the golden goose?

I found this interesting- http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20160219-catherine-rampell-why-bernie-sanders-plan-is-like-magic-flying-puppies-with-winning-lotto-tickets-tied-to-their-collars.ece (http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20160219-catherine-rampell-why-bernie-sanders-plan-is-like-magic-flying-puppies-with-winning-lotto-tickets-tied-to-their-collars.ece)

Well, if Bernie could have his way, how many people would ever finish college if it were free? Many say it was the best time of their lives.

The minimum wage is the one I've been pondering mostly.  If they appear to have the votes for that, I'll be investing in automation and robot companies, because I expect a boom in machines replacing people once the cost of labor is doubled. Of course there will be increasingly more commission and contract service workers, rather than hourly employees. More jobs will be exported.

For that matter with no immigration/border control, I expect a lot of labor will be contracted to bilingual guys with strictly Spanish speaking crews, much the way WalMart managed to get their stores cleaned at below cost.

I also envision a transformation in food service. Fast food will be ordered on a touch screen with a credit card reader. No more cashiers. Your bag will slide down the chute.

Sit down dining will make the most of tech savy Gen X and Y. They will reserve a numbered  table, order food, and pay for it before they arrive, all from their phones. The dining room will feature separate service carts for clearing tables, setting them, and delivering food. Kinda like airline food service, a few servers handle lots of customers..

I suppose people will just stay in college until they are eventually qualified for a job in demand, like robot repairman.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 22, 2016, 02:52:25 PM

I also envision a transformation in food service. Fast food will be ordered on a touch screen with a credit card reader. No more cashiers. Your bag will slide down the chute.


Over 20 years ago, I was working at Burger King.  I was in management training, a lead closer, and one of the fastest in the business.  They attempted this exact thing in the local college.  A "Mini" store.  Touch screen ordering, card only payment, pared down menu to make it "easier". 

It was an unmitigated disaster.  Customers got their own orders wrong, then got upset when they were made how they ordered.  People kept grabbing just whatever come down 'the chute', not looking for their specific number, etc. 

Now days, everyone is used to touch screen navigation.  Would it be any better? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 22, 2016, 07:46:47 PM
Quote
For that matter with no immigration/border control, I expect a lot of labor will be contracted to bilingual guys with strictly Spanish speaking crews, much the way WalMart managed to get their stores cleaned at below cost.
And Walmart strip mined towns of businesses and jobs doing this. No Borders, equals no country.
Quote
I suppose people will just stay in college until they are eventually qualified for a job in demand, like robot repairman.

Or they'll get their jobs taken from them by some H1B visa right off the boat from Pakistan and have 200,000k in debt from college
for nothing. Theres a reason [Sleezebag] is stomping all over the other candidates. People are sick of this.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 22, 2016, 07:55:55 PM
I know a convenience store chain in the Mid-Atlantic that has been doing touch screen made to order sandwiches since the late 1990s. Well, a little history.

They started as a self-service gas station with a Deli counter instead of service bays. One person at the cash register and two behind the  Deli case. They sold Gulf brand gas at the lowest prices. They grew slowly, buying and converting stations that couldn't compete  the volatile gas prices of the 80s.

Then, they started building stores from scratch. They got so busy that they decided to make them more convenient, and offer drive -up windows to compete with the fast food places. Disaster! People only got what they needed, instead of buying every overpriced snack that caughtt their eye.

They re-grouped. Still the low priced quality controlled gas, but now under their own brand name. They set out to have the cleanest and best repaired bathrooms ( bigger & better than McDonalds. ) The bathrooms had the president's hotline number on the doors, so the employees busted their butts keeping them neat and clean.  These are at the back of the store, and to get to and from them you have to pass the beverages coolers, Deli& grill with touch screens, snack aisles, krispy cremes, coffee, and finally registers/wall of cigarettes. The gas and bathrooms draw people, the displays and scents make them buy. $$$

So, I guess the Deli evolution trained the customers to the touch screen system. I just sort of assumed that it won't be long before McDonalds turns their cash registers around, remove the cash aspect, and lets the customers press the icons for themselves. Grocery chains and Big Box hardwares are already training people in self service checkout here.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2016, 04:55:38 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb2d4gGUMAEQWOJ.jpg)
Force choke
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2016, 06:42:28 PM
Quote
Obama: Guantanamo Bay undermines security, must be closed
Associated Press
By LOLITA C. BALDOR and KATHLEEN HENNESSEY  45 minutes ago


(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/qDB7fkX.yC_kV3eEFTGLMQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NzE3O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/076c8b33ca614809910f6a706700d972.jpg)
President Barack Obama speaks in the Roosevelt Room of the White House in Washington, Tuesday, Feb. 23, 2016, to discuss the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The Obama administration released its long-awaited plan to close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and transfer remaining detainees to a facility in the United States. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)



WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama on Tuesday vowed to "once and for all" close the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and transfer the most detainees to a facility in the U.S., submitting a plan short on specifics and unlikely to make headway with opponents in Congress.

Obama cast his proposal, released Tuesday after months of delay, as a moment to turn the page on a facility that for years has raised nettlesome legal questions, become a recruitment tool for violent extremists and garnered strong opposition from some allies abroad.

"I don't want to pass this problem onto the next president, whoever it is," Obama said, in an appearance at the White House. "If we don't do what's required now, I think future generations are going to look back and ask why we failed to act when the right course, the right side of history, and justice and our best American traditions was clear."

Despite the big ambitions, Obama's proposed path to closure remained unclear. It leaves unanswered the politically thorny question of where in the U.S a new facility would be located and whether it could be completed by the end of Obama's term. Moving detainees to U.S. soil is currently prohibited under U.S. law and lawmakers have shown little interest in removing the restrictions.

"We will review President Obama's plan but since it includes bringing dangerous terrorists to facilities in U.S. communities, he knows that the bipartisan will of Congress has already been expressed against that proposal," said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.

House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said Obama had yet to convince Americans that moving detainees to U.S. soil is "smart of safe."

"It is against the law — and it will stay against the law," Ryan said.


(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/YudS9k4R566DFErAmZd8LA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NjM4O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/d8896790ca624809910f6a706700ce0c.jpg)
Vice President Joe Biden reacts to comments made by President Barack Obama, accompanied by Defense Secretary Ash Carter, in the Roosevelt Room of the White House in Washington, Tuesday, Feb. 23, 2016. Obama announced Pentagon's long-awaited plan to shut down the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and transfer the remaining detainees to a facility in the U.S. The plan is Obama's last-ditch effort to make good on campaign vow to close Guantanamo. (AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)


Even Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a former prisoner of war and an advocate of closing the prison, called Obama's report a "vague menu of options," which does not include a policy for dealing with future terrorist detainees.

Obama has "missed a major chance to convince the Congress and the American people that he has a responsible plan to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility," he said.

It's not clear whether that chance ever existed. Momentum to close the facility has slowed dramatically under Obama's tenure. Congress remains deadlocked on far less contentious matters, and the issue has little resonance on the presidential campaign trail.

Still, for Obama, the facility stands as a major unfilled promise and a painful reminder of the limits on his power: His first executive order sketched out a timeline for closing the prison, but was ultimately derailed by Congress.

The White House has not ruled out the possibility that the president may again attempt to close the prison through executive action — a move that would directly challenge Congress' authority. The plan submitted Tuesday does not address that option.

The proposal underscores the administration's strategy of shrinking the population, hoping the massive cost for housing the diminished population would ultimately make closure inevitable.


(http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/pFQFXHMF2fmv_Wyv0l6Gmg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NjM5O2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/caaa5d6cc7e83d09910f6a706700f41a.jpg)
In this Nov. 21, 2013, file photo reviewed by the U.S. military, dawn arrives at the now closed Camp X-Ray, which was used as the first detention facility for al-Qaida and Taliban militants who were captured after the Sept. 11 attacks at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, Cuba. U.S. officials say the Pentagon’s long-awaited plan to shut down the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and transfer the remaining detainees to a facility in the U.S. calls for up to $475 million in construction costs, but would save as much as $180 million per year in operating costs. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak, File)


Under the plan, roughly 35 of the 91 current detainees will be transferred to other countries in the coming months, leaving up to 60 detainees who are either facing trial by military commission or have been determined to be too dangerous to release but are not facing charges.

Those detainees would be relocated to a U.S. facility that could cost up to $475 million to build, but would ultimately be offset by as much as $180 million per year in operating cost savings. The annual operating cost for Guantanamo is $445 million. The U.S. facilities would cost between $265 million and $305 million to operate each year, according to the proposal.

The plan considers, but does not name, 13 different locations in the U.S., including seven existing prison facilities in Colorado, South Carolina and Kansas, as well as six other locations at current correctional facilities on state, federal or military sites in several states. It also notes that there could be all new construction on existing military bases. The plan doesn't recommend a preferred site and the cost estimates are meant to provide a starting point for a conversation with Congress.

More detailed spending figures, which are considered classified, will be provided to Congress, said U.S. officials, who were not authorized to discuss the plan publicly ahead of its release, so spoke on condition of anonymity.

Members of Congress have been demanding the Guantanamo plan for months, and those representing South Carolina, Kansas and Colorado have voiced opposition to housing the detainees in their states.

"We must safeguard the missions on Fort Leavenworth, the nearly 14,000 military and civilian personnel and their family members, and the thousands of Kansans who live in the Leavenworth community," Sen. Jerry Moran, R-Kan., said in a statement Tuesday.

Advocates of closing Guantanamo say the prison has long been a recruiting tool for militant groups and that holding extremists suspected of violent acts indefinitely without charges or trial sparks anger and dismay among U.S. allies.

Opponents, however, say changing the detention center's ZIP code won't eliminate that problem.

On that point, Obama's proposal faced criticism even from those who endorse closing the detention center. His initial campaign pledge was widely viewed as a promise to end the practice of detaining prisoners indefinitely without charge, not to bring that practice to the U.S., said Naureen Shah, director of Amnesty International USA's Security and Human Rights Program.

"Whatever the president proposes, even if it doesn't come to fruition, the administration is changing the goal posts on this issue," she said.

Obama said Tuesday he would also propose changes to the military commissions, which he noted have been costly and ineffective. Those changes would also require congressional action, he noted.

__

Associated Press writer Deb Riechmann and Donna Cassata contributed to this report.
http://news.yahoo.com/pentagons-guantanamo-plan-lays-costs-savings-080548790--politics.html (http://news.yahoo.com/pentagons-guantanamo-plan-lays-costs-savings-080548790--politics.html)



 ;clenchedteeth
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2016, 09:49:53 PM
The twitter feed I saw the original -posted above- on commented "It's like she's actively trying to summon memes" - who am I to make a liar out of him?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 23, 2016, 10:03:28 PM
Its doesn't matter. She's going to be nominated, she already has the delegates.
The only thing that can stop her is her going to jail or dropping dead on the campaign trail.
She really does make it easy though doesn't she?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 23, 2016, 10:30:24 PM
Yeah - I said all along that we were probably going to get stuck with her; and while a stiff public manner doesn't make her a terrible person -there's evidence of that, but not because she overthinks it when she knows there cameras looking- it does make her a terrible candidate and an easy target for larfs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 24, 2016, 06:37:48 PM
Nevada Was Great For Donald [Sleezebag], Bad For Ted Cruz

By Nate Silver and Harry Enten


-2016-republican-primary/]http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nevada-caucus-results-donald-[Sleezebag]-2016-republican-primary/ (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nevada-caucus-results-donald-[Sleezebag)

"Tuesday night’s results were very bad news for Cruz. It’s not just that it was his third third-place finish in a row. It’s also how Cruz lost. He carried only 27 percent of the white born-again and evangelical Christian vote, behind [Sleezebag]’s 41 percent. Cruz also lost this group in New Hampshire and South Carolina. But, unlike in South Carolina, Cruz also trailed among “very conservative” voters in Nevada, 34 percent to [Sleezebag]’s 38 percent. Finally, Cruz continues to struggle among “somewhat conservative” and moderate voters. He earned just 16 percent and 7 percent among those groups, respectively, according to the entrance poll."

The article goes on to make a variety of points interesting points- [Sleezebag] stomped Rubio in what was Marco's former home, Rubio beat Cruz again, and that states are a series of case by case events, not necessarily as much about momentum and national context as they seem. [Sleezebag]'s message always resonated in NV and AZ.


*******************************************

I gotta go now, I'll talk some more about Cruz later.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 24, 2016, 11:15:30 PM
I've been listening to or watching campaign speeches.

I think Cruz is one of the cleverest candidates. Maybe that also makes him one of the most dangerous.
Winning  Iowa by convincing caucus goers that Carson was about to suspend his campaign. Promoting some out of context clip that makes Rubio sound anti-Bible when the opposite is true. Then there's his high-sounding rhetoric about the Constitution. When he's talking about religious liberty, he means the right to refuse to do business with gays and deny them marriage licenses. Discrimination, in other words.
When he's talking about right to life, I think he means that life begins at conception, and that any birth control method that prevents implantation is a form of abortion and should be abolished.

Taken as a whole he sounds downright devious. Then there is the matter of tearing up the Iran deal and Obamacare on day 1, before any alternative has been worked out.

Frankly, I don't think a zealot in the Whitehouse dealing with other zealots in the Middle East will work out well for anyone. I don't think I could vote for this guy, even if he were the only alternative to [Sleezebag] as the GOP candidate.

Cruze is kinda scarey.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 24, 2016, 11:53:58 PM
Cruz reminds me somewhat of Mrs. Clinton -wants it too bad and tries too hard; would slit your throat for the vote in your pocket- and somewhat of an internet acquaintance I won't even name in case he's still hate-lurking me occasionally.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2016, 09:46:21 PM
From Facebook:
Quote
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hprofile-xtl1/v/t1.0-1/p100x100/12670562_1012063828851197_2253102093542559563_n.jpg?oh=d449754acb05036da1478ceb720aabf6&oe=576172D0) Dr. David Duke (https://www.facebook.com/drdaviddukeFANpage/?fref=nf)


Former head of Ku Klux Klan discussed [Sleezebag] · 1 hr ·
..

100 major media articles about me today, but not one dared to call to call me and interview on why White Americans are overwhelmingly supporting Donald [Sleezebag].

They are obviously afraid to hear the logical reasons I offer.

1) Because we must secure our border
 2) Because we break the power of the Jewish Federal Reserve and predator banks Goldman Sachs that are robbing us blind.
 3) Because we are tired of massive Jewish money and lobbies controlling American politics
 4) Because we sick and tired of Zio Wars
 5) Because we don't war Word War III with Russiia
 6) Because like every people on Earth, White people have a right to preserve their heritage, their nations, their values, and provide for a decent, not a THIRD WORLD future for our children.
 7) Because [Sleezebag] exposes the lies of a controlled media and a controlled opposition media (Fox News)

Even the New York Times admits that the Republican rank and file have adopted my political programs. Donald [Sleezebag] has the same positions I had in 1992 in the primaries where even though I was illegally kept out of debates I scored lot more support than Paul, Carson and others in primaries I was not illegally kept out of.

The fact that [Sleezebag] (and others) say what I say almost 25 years ago does not make him bad, but it makes me pretty damn good.

By the way, you can read my essays and hear my interviews before the Iraq War in 2002 -2003 saying there were no weapons of mass destruction that the war in Iraq would be a disaster of America.

In every election I ever ran in starting in the 1970s I preached the necessity of securing our borders and the catastrophe that would befall our nation if we went to war.

Dr. David Duke
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 25, 2016, 10:27:44 PM
Your posting this like its going to matter to the Right.
Everyone on the right gets called a racist anyway.
The buzzword is losing its impact. It has been for years.
After awhile the political pendulum shifts now were going to
go right wing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2016, 10:32:11 PM
No - the right has been getting more openly racist in the last ten years - and dead to shame.

I find your pendulum remark reality-challenged, too.  We're overdue for a swing alright, but not that way.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 25, 2016, 10:43:35 PM
America is the most tolerant its ever been and all it gets us is grief.
Quote
I find your pendulum remark reality-challenged, too.  We're overdue for a swing alright, but not that way.
America is the modern equivalent of Weimar Germany. Look how the pendulum shifted back then.
For that matter Nixon was a reaction to the 60's cultural revolution. And Obama was the first
openly liberal president since then.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 25, 2016, 10:55:16 PM
Weimar Germany couldn't handle its cranks and looneys and haters looking for scapegoats and spreading hate fiction - you mistake my forbearance thus far for something similar.

So the next time I see your current sig, I'm taking action -24 hours worth- and every time I see it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 01:24:02 AM
It's interesting. Now that the GOP field has finally shrunk to [Sleezebag] vs. various alternatives- one Theocon, one Neocon, one Fiscon, and one Outsider, pressure is being brought to bear for others to follow Walker's lead and bow out.

Of course, even if they don't think they can win, nobody wants to quit before their home state election.

Cruz thinks he's the clear alternative, because he won the Iowa Caucus, the only one besides [Sleezebag] to win anything. But that was a while ago.

Rubio thinks he's the clear alternative because he has the most delegates among the alternatives, and he's beat Cruze the last two times. But he hasn't beat [Sleezebag].

Kasich knows he's the only Republican who polls strong against both Hillary and Bernie, and isn't winning really the point in the Republican party? If he quit, [Sleezebag] could take Ohio and secure the nomination. Perhaps he's only a spoiler. But, he's picking up supporters and donors from Jeb's campaign, and the longer he stays in, the better people get to know him.

Carson?  He's running because he cares about a couple of issues, and a s long as he's in the race, he has a microphone and publicity. His support would probably split between [Sleezebag] and Cruze if he dropped out.

ME, I think the candidates deserve to keep trying their best until their home states, but if they can't win there, they should bow out of the race. This includes [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 01:34:12 AM
Do you think the party establishment prefers Kasich to Rubio, given the probabilities?  I do think it's clearly down to one or the other - and I would have guessed settling for Rubio.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 03:01:37 AM
Do you think the party establishment prefers Kasich to Rubio, given the probabilities?  I do think it's clearly down to one or the other - and I would have guessed settling for Rubio.

I think most of them would prefer Rubio. Some see Hispanics ( many of which are  entrepreneurs operating off of the books and/or Catholic family values/cultural conservatives ) as a better fit for the GOP than Women and Blacks, and the party desperately needs to broaden it's base and attract younger voters and campaign workers.  As for donors, Rubio makes a great prophet/profit for venture capitalists and foreign adventurers.

Kasich is an old white guy. Not a face of the future, and not so easy to push around. With 18 years' experience on the House Armed Services Committee, he's been around the block on procurement. I'm reminded of the Dudley Moore movie, "Micki and Maude". In the course of being a TV reporter, Moore's character walked off the set in disgust during an interview. The networks immediately called him with job offers. Why? The appearance of integrity. Actual integrity is inconvenient, but the appearance... NOW THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT!

I think that's a point with Kasich. People that actually balance budgets are inconvenient. People that do it buy replacing automatic incarceration with drug treatment and mental health care to reduce total costs are dangerous rebels from a government contractor's point of view.

I figured Kasich was too dull to get anywhere in televised politics, but he's improving. He's positive, he's a uniter, and apparently he's a breath of fresh air to people who are disgusted with the Washington Cruz style partisan gridlock status quo. Or so the general electorate polls would hint.

Well, maybe they insider contributors/contractors/crony capitalists put their money and hopes on Rubio, secure in the knowledge that they can make a deal with Hillary if he fails. Maybe the campaign workers and precinct captains just love hearing that Reaganesque rhetoric again. They always enjoy it.

So yes, I concur with your most of the establishment settling for Rubio analysis.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 03:10:37 AM
That's a stellar breakdown, I figure. ;b;

Too bad, though - as bad as Washington and its system is, Kasich's been there long enough to have a feel for how the broken, corrupt, system works, plus executive experience.  The President needs those to be a good one, and again, we can't afford very much on-the-job training.  Rubio's a strong campaigner, but I gather hasn't even spent enough time at the job to even count full points for his hitch in the Senate.

So, how do you feel about what I keep saying about minimum qualification?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 03:54:12 AM
Uh... I'm coming around to your way of thinking.

I used to say that a president should have experience as a governor, VP, or Senator. Otherwise, they have no experience  working with elitist legislators ( state or federal senators) . You can't get anything done without them.

But I have to admit that there's a tremendous amount of government/administrative/organizational  experience commanding an army. Think Washington and Eisenhower. At that level, they're used to dealing with senators, too.

Anyway, after seeing Bakrama's on the job training, and listening to Marko, I'm convinced somebody needs to have a complete U.S. Senate term under their belts with good attendance, if that's their credential, not get elected and start campaigning for president.


I'm thinking both of them, orators that they are, might have made great VPs, and presidents afterwards.

Going directly from a couple years in the Senate to the campaign trail, not so much.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 04:05:23 AM
I certainly wasn't ready for forum management until I fell into it, though I've spent far more time on the boards daily than a full-time job since March of 2009 - and I think people who were around at the beginning of WPC would tend to agree that I was a quick study, despite how much noise I made for a few months.  I thought I had a feel for how the community worked, but I was wrong; just hadn't been in there picking up the subtleties long enough, and made five people's  share of mistakes and enemies early.

Not to draw an analogy or anything...

-BU (logged in at AC2: 758d 20h 12m since early 2012)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 04:15:59 AM
I'm watching the debate. I can't understand most of it because they are talking over each other, but it's fun to see [Sleezebag] get a taste of his own medicine.

I think I'll pour myself some rum and drink whenever [Sleezebag] says "trust me" "believe me" or " I have a plan and it'll be fabulous"

Same with Carson starting his answers with returning to a previous question.

Same with Cruze hiding behind the Constitution when he wants to discriminate.

Same with Rubio changing the subject to foreign intervention.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 05:39:39 PM
Well, Rubio didn't give me cause to drink, but the rest of them emptied my glass in short order.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 05:47:43 PM
That was definitely a formula for blackout drinking...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 07:26:31 PM
Quote
Republicans all wet on waterboarding, former generals say
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  February 25, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/epHtOQHEJle1tjldCivRPw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/5e3b8a988f99acebd05c77396b4945547f303b32.jpg)
An Army captain walks outside unoccupied cells inside Camp 6 at the U.S. detention center at Guantánamo Bay. (Photo: Ben Fox/AP)



Nineteen retired generals and admirals who support Hillary Clinton’s campaign have signed a blistering condemnation of Republican presidential candidates who support the use of interrogation tactics widely regarded as torture. The officers also scolded them for opposing President Obama’s proposal to close the prison for suspected terrorists at Guantánamo Bay.

“The Republican candidates have turned this into a game to see who can seem toughest,” the former officers said in a statement the Clinton campaign provided on Thursday. “Yet, how we combat our enemies and defeat ISIS is not a game, and these proposals would only make us weaker.”

On the campaign trail, Donald [Sleezebag] has called with gusto for interrogating suspected terrorists with tactics widely regarded as torture, including but not limited to waterboarding. Ted Cruz says waterboarding isn’t torture and has pushed for carpet-bombing cities held by the so-called Islamic State. Marco Rubio has  opposed legislation banning the use of torture. All of the Republican presidential candidates oppose Obama’s plan to close the detention facility near Cuba’s southeastern tip.

The statement by the retired brass called Guantánamo “one of the most powerful symbols for terrorist recruitment” and said torture “abandons the principles that this country was founded on, compromises our position of leadership on the world stage, and puts our troops, frontline civilians, and all Americans at risk.”

The retired officers said Clinton “has consistently been on the right side of history on these issues,” both by supporting efforts to close the prison and by asserting “that torture does not work and defies our nation’s values and interests.”

While the group supports the former secretary of state’s presidential aspirations, other former national security officials who have not come out in favor of a candidate have expressed contempt for some of the rhetoric coming from contenders for the Republican presidential nomination.

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Republican, has explicitly denounced carpet-bombing as a tactic and says the foreign policy discussions on the campaign trail “would embarrass a middle-schooler.” Former Central Intelligence Agency Director Michael Hayden recently said the agency won’t be waterboarding again anytime soon and invited [Sleezebag] to bring his “own damn bucket” if he wants to resume the practice.

Public opinion polls have found that Americans are divided over whether torture works and whether it should be used, though roughly three out of four Republicans think waterboarding and other harsh techniques are sometimes justified.

The CIA has defended its use of interrogation tactics authorized by then-President George W. Bush after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. But the FBI and Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee say they failed to yield any valuable information.

The group of retired officers who signed the statement includes former Army Maj. Gen. Tony Taguba, best known for his scathing 2004 report on abuses committed by U.S. forces at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/republicans-all-wet-on-waterboarding-former-164218614.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/republicans-all-wet-on-waterboarding-former-164218614.html)



I omitted one of the accompanying photos, because trashy real estate butthole...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 07:38:40 PM
Speaking of whom -

Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] had a rough night. Will it matter?
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  February 26, 2016



The 10th Republican presidential debate was a good show, as it always is with Donald [Sleezebag] on the stage.

But for the first time in this unprecedented primary election, [Sleezebag] could have used a little more winning. He left the stage in Houston having been pushed around for most of the night.

Standing between the two U.S. senators who remain the only obstacles between him and the GOP nomination, [Sleezebag] was under assault from both Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas for a large part of the two-hour spectacle.

A little more than halfway through the raucous back-and-forth, [Sleezebag] was clearly tiring, and angry at being under so much duress. When the radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt directed another question at [Sleezebag], the businessman and reality TV personality snapped at him in anger.

“Every single question comes to me? I know I’m here for the ratings, but it’s a little bit ridiculous,” he complained.

Rubio was relentless. He pushed, prodded, provoked and badgered [Sleezebag] as no one else during the campaign has been able to do on a stage. Rubio, smiling much of the time, interrupted and talked over [Sleezebag] rather than standing by and waiting for him to insult or belittle him.

And Cruz followed up on many of Rubio’s attacks or criticisms.

Rubio went on the offensive in his first answer, saying that [Sleezebag] had only recently adopted a conservative stance on immigration, and then accusing him of hiring people from outside the country.

“Even today, we saw a report in one of the newspapers that Donald, you’ve hired a significant number of people from other countries to take jobs that Americans could have filled,” he said.

He was referring to a New York Times report that showed that [Sleezebag]’s Palm Beach club, Mar-a-Lago, has brought in hundreds of foreign workers with temporary visas to fill jobs, while denying or ignoring hundreds of applications from American citizens.

Essentially, Rubio was calling [Sleezebag] a hypocrite, given the billionaire’s campaign rhetoric about getting jobs back for Americans who have lost them, especially to immigrants. [Sleezebag] compounded this impression in an interview on CNN after the debate, arguing that “you can’t get American people” for such work.

During the debate, Rubio pointed out that the Times had interviewed a number of people who would have been willing to take the work, “if you would have been willing to hire them to do it.”

Before [Sleezebag] began to counterattack, Rubio demonstrated a tactic that he employed repeatedly to great effect. He launched in on [Sleezebag] from another angle, pointing out that [Sleezebag] was the “only person on this stage that has ever been fined for hiring people to work on your projects illegally.”

“You hired some workers from Poland,” Rubio said. As [Sleezebag] began to reject the accusation as “totally wrong,” Rubio suggested that the audience simply search on Google for the evidence.

Ted Cruz questions [Sleezebag]'s experience, pointing out that [Sleezebag] was on reality TV when other candidates were working in government.

[Sleezebag] did not get a breather. Cruz immediately waded in on him for not being conservative enough on immigration.

“When I was leading the fight against the ‘Gang of Eight’ amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on ‘Celebrity Apprentice,’” Cruz said, mockingly.

The Texas senator, armed with his own file of facts, said that [Sleezebag] had donated $50,000 to the politicians who helped pass an immigration reform bill through the Senate in 2013, which Cruz refers to as an “open borders” plan.

“When you’re funding open border politicians, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight for open borders,” Cruz said, seeking to undercut another of [Sleezebag]’s key claims, that he will have a wall built across the U.S.-Mexico border to stop all illegal immigration.

When the wall was mentioned moments later, CNN’s moderator, Wolf Blitzer, expressed skepticism that [Sleezebag] would actually be able to force the Mexican government to pay for it.

How would he do this? Blitzer asked [Sleezebag]. “I will,” [Sleezebag] said, without elaboration.

Rubio once again started taking shots at [Sleezebag].

“If he builds the wall the way he built [Sleezebag] Towers, he’ll be using illegal immigrant labor to do it,” he said. [Sleezebag] rolled his eyes but did not respond. “The second thing, about the trade war,” Rubio went on, “I don’t understand, because your ties and the clothes you make [are] made in Mexico and in China. So you’re gonna be starting a trade war against your own ties and your own suits.”

Rubio pestered [Sleezebag] eight times about why he didn’t make his ties and branded clothing line in the United States rather than in China and Mexico. Rubio then pivoted quickly to another attack, punching from a different angle.

As [Sleezebag] was objecting that Rubio didn’t know anything about his reasons for manufacturing his clothing line in China, Rubio shot back: “Well, I don’t know anything about bankrupting four companies.”

Then he launched in again. “I don’t know anything about starting a university, and that was a fake university. There are people who borrowed $36,000 to go to [Sleezebag] University, and they’re suing now,” Rubio said, discussing the ongoing lawsuit against the school (now defunct) in which [Sleezebag] has been called to testify under oath.

“That’s a fake school. And you know what they got? They got to take a picture with a cardboard cutout of Donald [Sleezebag].”

[Sleezebag] tried repeatedly to stop Rubio from talking and to get a word in himself, but remarkably, failed to do so. Finally, he went after Rubio for profiting from a home sale.

“Here’s a guy, here’s a guy that buys a house for $179,000, he sells it to a lobbyist — who’s probably here — for $380,000, and then legislation is passed,” [Sleezebag] said.

Rubio came quickly back with another one-liner. “Here’s a guy that inherited $200 million,” he responded. “If he hadn’t inherited $200 million, you know where Donald [Sleezebag] would be right now?”

Back and forth it went for much of the night.

This all led up to the most punishing blow Rubio landed, again refusing to let [Sleezebag] get away with a superficial answer on how he would reform the U.S. health care system. Casually but with a touch of disdain, Rubio pressed [Sleezebag] on what his plan for health insurance reform would be, other than allowing customers to shop across state lines for a plan.

“What is your plan, Mr. [Sleezebag]?” Rubio said. “What is your plan on health care?”

“You don’t know,” [Sleezebag] replied. “The biggest problem — ”

“What’s your plan?” Rubio asked again.

“The biggest problem, I’ll have you know…” [Sleezebag] said, before being interrupted once again.

“What’s your plan?” Rubio said.

[Sleezebag] gave up, instead mocking Rubio for his near-catastrophic debate performance Feb. 6 in New Hampshire, when New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie badgered the Florida senator into repeating himself multiple times in a way that was subsequently mocked as robotic.

But as [Sleezebag] once again invoked purchasing health plans across state lines, Rubio used Christie’s tactic against him.

“Now he’s repeating himself,” Rubio said. The audience cheered loudly and knowingly, acknowledging that Rubio was not only demonstrating a toughness that he had not shown under fire from Christie, but was using against [Sleezebag] the accusation Christie used against him.

[Sleezebag] was flustered.

“Is there anything else you would like to add to that?” CNN’s Dana Bash asked [Sleezebag].

“No, there’s nothing to add,” [Sleezebag] said.

[Sleezebag] then came in for questions over whether he would release his tax returns. He replied that because he is being audited by the Internal Revenue Service, he does not want to release them until the audit is completed, and noted that his taxes have been audited for 12 years straight.

Rubio also made light of [Sleezebag]’s approach to the Middle East peace process. Even radio talk show host Glenn Beck, a big supporter of Cruz, tweeted: “Rubio is killing it.”

Ahead of next Tuesday’s primary voting in a dozen states, Rubio and Cruz both need to arrest [Sleezebag]’s momentum. On Thursday night, each did about as good a job as they possibly could to change the shape of the race.

But [Sleezebag] has proven hard to stop, and the next few days will reveal whether the Houston debate marked a change in the dynamics of the race or simply amounted to a few uncomfortable moments for [Sleezebag] on the way to winning the nomination.
-had-a-rough-night-will-it-matter-062332029.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-had-a-rough-night-will-it-matter-062332029.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 07:55:56 PM
You know, for all of my many and varied social faults, I've never been one to waste much time bad-mouthing trashy celebrities who act out in public -and believe me, when it comes to annoying celebrities, I'm a bottomless pit of hate, because I think they damage society/the world in a real way- and I definitely try not to reward the ones who seem to be doing it on purpose -and this scumbag POS has been a textbook example for over 20 years- with the attention they crave so, so much more than their dignity and decency.  That IS all he is.

-But then, suddenly one is making himself everyone's problem in the most direct possible way, and some articles are just too true to pass up.  Left out another pic for reasons that should be a bit obvious by now.


Quote
Nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say freeing the slaves was a bad idea
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  February 25, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/GeHR.dTKlpna6xUNXfEVLA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/8225245750aa35dd34a5622d03809d8e68f1c8a8.jpg)
Donald [Sleezebag] meets with supporters at a campaign rally on Monday in Las Vegas. (Photo: John Locher/AP)



Donald [Sleezebag] is riding a wave of anger to the Republican presidential nomination. And according to surveys and exit poll data compiled by the New York Times, there are some unsettling beliefs held by the voters propelling him.

According to a Economist/YouGov national poll conducted in January, nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say they do not approve of the Emancipation Proclamation, Abraham Lincoln’s executive order that freed the slaves in the Southern states during the Civil War.

Of the 2,000 U.S. adults who participated in the poll, 13 percent said they either slightly or strongly disagreed with Lincoln, while 17 percent said they weren’t sure.

The same survey found that a third of [Sleezebag]’s supporters believe that Japanese-American internment during World War II was a good idea.

According to a Public Policy Polling survey conducted earlier this month, a third of [Sleezebag]’s supporters in South Carolina say they would “support barring gays and lesbians from entering the country.”

The same poll found that 38 percent “wish the South had won the Civil War,” while 70 percent “wish the Confederate battle flag were still flying on their statehouse grounds.”

And though most Republican primary voters in South Carolina (78 percent) disagreed with the idea that whites were a superior race, only 69 percent of the brash billionaire’s backers did, compared with, say, supporters of Ohio Gov. John Kasich (92 percent) or those of Texas Sen. Ted Cruz (89 percent).

“Mr. [Sleezebag]’s popularity with white, working-class voters who are more likely than other Republicans to believe that whites are a supreme race and who long for the Confederacy may make him unpopular among leaders in his party,” Lynn Vavreck, a professor of political science at UCLA, writes in the New York Times. “But it’s worth noting that he isn’t persuading voters to hold these beliefs. The beliefs were there — and have been for some time.”

The deep-seated sentiments of those supporters are, in part, a result of ignorance and poor education — another voting bloc that [Sleezebag] has successfully exploited.

According to preliminary entrance poll data compiled by CNN, [Sleezebag] had 57 percent support among those with a high school education or less, 37 points higher than any other candidate.

During his victory speech, [Sleezebag] said "We won with the highly educated, we won with the poorly educated."

“We won with young,” [Sleezebag] said during his victory speech after the Nevada caucuses on Tuesday. “We won with old. We won with highly educated. We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”

At a rally in Las Vegas on the eve of the caucuses Monday, [Sleezebag] — who graduated from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania in 1968 — didn’t exactly sound like a presidential candidate, much less one with an economics degree.

“What the hell is caucus?” he said to laughter. “Nobody even knows what it is. Just vote.”

[Sleezebag] then told the crowd he wanted to punch a protester who was being escorted from the event in the face.

“There’s a guy, totally disruptive, throwing punches — we’re not allowed to punch back anymore,” he said. “I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out in a stretcher.”

[Sleezebag] added: “I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell ya.”

After his win in South Carolina, [Sleezebag] was asked on “Fox News Sunday” if he thought he should “act more presidential.”

“Well, probably I do,” [Sleezebag] replied. “I mean, I can act as presidential as anybody that’s ever been president other than the great Abraham Lincoln.”

On Thursday, [Sleezebag] picked up the unofficial endorsement of perhaps the country’s most prominent white supremacist: former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke.

“Voting against Donald [Sleezebag] at this point is really treason to your heritage,” Duke said on his radio show. “I’m not saying I endorse everything about [Sleezebag], in fact I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”

“America, you’re stupid,” Salon’s Sean Illing declared. “Donald [Sleezebag]’s political triumph makes it official — we’re a nation of idiots.”

One of the writers of “Idiocracy” — a 1996 cult comedy that imagines a dystopian future so dumb that Luke Wilson is the most intelligent person alive — agreed.

“I never expected #idiocracy to become a documentary,” Etan Cohen, who co-wrote the film with Mike Judge, lamented on Twitter. “I thought the worst thing that would come true was everyone wearing Crocs.”
-supporters-free-slaves-poll-193745865.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/[Sleezebag]-supporters-free-slaves-poll-193745865.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 08:35:13 PM
Since I'm already at Pig overload for the month, I won't post/link anything, but wish to mention that I think I've been kind to Mr. Christie in this thread, and today, I feel betrayed for it.  I will never defend him again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on February 26, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
Quote
Nearly 20 percent of [Sleezebag]’s supporters say freeing the slaves was a bad idea
When In doubt call them racists because that will certainly work. The media doesn't get it.
The more they do this the stronger he gets.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
No, when racists say racist things, they get huffy about being called racists.

Too much of this is too much, and I'm sick of it.  24 hours.  -NO MORE defending racists and racism.-
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 26, 2016, 09:06:06 PM
While I appreciate Mr. Rubio's sentiment, I find what he said on Good Morning America this morning to drip with a non-trivial amount of irony:

"In my whole life I've had to fight and I'm going to fight now, because there is no way that the party of Reagan and the conservative movement, I'm going to allow it to be taken over by a con artist," he said."

I'm busting on Reagan, for anyone missing the point.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on February 26, 2016, 09:12:00 PM
Delete if you need, but I know that was difficult for you.   ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 26, 2016, 11:10:36 PM
That was interesting reading. I couldn't actually tell much of what was being said during those portions of the debate, because they were talking over one another, other than it was refreshing to see [Sleezebag] get a taste of his own tactics. After all, he seems to be a do double unto others as they have done unto you kind of guy.

For the record, I generally hate when they do that. The debates are supposed to be about ideas, and theatrics just show a lack of respect for ideas. If you don't think your ideas can stand up in a fair comparison, maybe you shouldn't be running.

If I ran a televised  debate, not only would it be rigidly timed, but rigidly timed would apply to microphones being turned on and off. You wouldn't be able to interrupt, or go over time, and you wouldn't be on camera to make monkey shines. If you did somehow managed to steal time, it would be subtracted from your closing remarks.

Maybe my rules sound harsh, but the Constitution is a set of rules that protects the rights of others, and if you can't abide by rules, whether you like them or not,  you probably aren't the best person to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 27, 2016, 12:20:36 AM
I always have mixed feelings when people use the Bad Guys' tactics to go after the Bad Guys.  Once in a while down here in North Carolina, a democrat will release a really harsh attack ad against someone very deserving -and I never saw this much as recently as ten years ago- and part of me is thinking "Fight!  Get 'im!" and another part is thinking that it sounds exactly like the crap I despise the right so much for sinking to.  The right is so much better at it, and it bothers me when the left doesn't fight back, and also bothers me when the left sinks as low. ;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 27, 2016, 01:06:57 AM
I guess one of the things I'm trying to say here is that loud stupid ignorance has had its political day for 36 years straight now, and like the neighbor's dog barking, ignoring it doesn't make it go away.  Loud stupid ignorance has just gotten louder, stupider, and more brazenly ignorant instead of realizing what it is and being ashamed.  It's time for the grownups to get out the squirt gun or something.

-It really is the stupid that bothers me more than the wrong and evil, for some reason...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 27, 2016, 01:50:21 AM
I don't think Senator Graham disagrees, exactly.

Lindsey Graham Roasts GOP Candidates: ‘My Party Has Gone Bat**** Crazy’ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw78la_u4e8#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 27, 2016, 05:23:12 AM
I've determined that [Sleezebag] support is more about giving the press, politicians, political parties and federal government the finger than anything else, and that's why it doesn't slip no matter what.

I did find one of Rubio's assertions interesting- that he deliberately brought in foreign workers on visas and disregarded American applications. I figure it's nearly impossible to keep an illegal Mexican from for one of the subcontractors on a large project. But this is about payroll jobs, and if I were supporter, I'd change my mind about him because of this-

FROM NATIONAL REVIEW-
"And of course there is [Sleezebag]'s use and abuse of America's visa programs, beyond Mar-a-Lago. Reuters reviewed Department of Labor Data last August, and
reports that [Sleezebag]-owned companies have tried to import 1,100 workers on temporary visas since 2000. Jobs “that Americans won’t do” include waitress, cook, vineyard worker, golf-course superintendent, hotel manager, banquet manager, and maid. Additionally, American women apparently are not attractive enough for Donald [Sleezebag]; the [Sleezebag] Model Management and [Sleezebag] Management Group LLC have sought to import 250 fashion models from overseas.

Conservative voters who believe that a President [Sleezebag] will enforce and strengthen our immigration laws, will prosecute those who violate them, and will put the interest of American workers first are deluding themselves. Donald [Sleezebag]’s professional history is one of undermining American workers — by exploiting the law wherever possible and, when that’s not enough, breaking it outright. Donald [Sleezebag] is not looking out for American workers. He is looking out for his own pocketbook. That’s not going to change by putting him in the White House.

 Read more at: -foreign-workers-american-workers-arent-good-enough]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431933/donald-[Sleezebag]-foreign-workers-american-workers-arent-good-enough (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431933/donald-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 27, 2016, 06:53:35 PM
Ooops!

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/there-goes-the-firewall-hillary-clintons-response.html (http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/there-goes-the-firewall-hillary-clintons-response.html)

There Goes the Firewall: Hillary Clinton’s Response to BLM May Have Cost Her The Election

By Walker Bragman  |  February 26, 2016  |  11:38am

“I’m not a superpredator!” Ashley Williams, a young Black Lives Matter protester told Democratic presidential hopeful, Hillary Clinton—her confidence belied by a slight quiver in her voice.

Even when heckled by the mostly white crowd at a $500-per-plate campaign fundraiser dinner in conservative South Carolina, Williams held her ground. She faced down an evasive Clinton, demanding an explanation for racist remarks the former First Lady made in 1996, where she referred to inner-city, black youth as “super-predators” with “no conscience” and “no empathy.” “We need to bring them to heel” she explained.

At the time, Clinton was touting her husband’s “tough on crime” policies—specifically the Violent Crime Control Act of 1994—which imposed harsh punishments on a variety of nonviolent offenses, and is widely accepted as a driving force (though not the only force) behind the explosion of incarceration over the next decade. Black America was hit particularly hard.

After a tense confrontation, Clinton’s security detail physically removed the young woman who had paid $500 to deliver her message.


After she was gone, a visibly annoyed Clinton, seemingly unable to stop herself, turned to the crowd and said “Back to the issues…” not realizing she was on camera. She could not have made a more tone-deaf statement, especially given the name of movement she had just been confronted by.

**********************************************************************

The article goes on to contrast Hillary's style of handling Black Lives Matter to Bernie's. It's full of images , too.

Everybody says that Hillary is on the verge of wrapping this up because we're moving to the southern states now and she does so much better with blacks.

Will they turn out for her after this circulates through social media?

I was looking at general election polls yesterday, to see the Kasich vs. Hillary numbers, and he's pretty strong. Around +8%

But I was also shocked to see that Bernie vs. Donald is about + 15% for Bernie. So in the battle of the outsiders the socialist stomps the real estate magnate. He's the sure thing for the Democratic party.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 27, 2016, 07:00:06 PM
They're tapping into similar wells of popular frustration in populist ways - the difference in their obvious sincerity and character being larger than the difference in their angles of attack, which is considerable.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 27, 2016, 09:38:25 PM
They're tapping into similar wells of popular frustration in populist ways - the difference in their obvious sincerity and character being larger than the difference in their angles of attack, which is considerable.

Could you please rephrase this with fewer pronouns? I'm not sure who is Hillary/Bernie/the press/Black Lives Matter.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 27, 2016, 10:23:55 PM
It's in response to the very last part of your previous.

Sanders and the trashy real estate huckster are tapping into similar wells of popular frustration in populist ways - the difference in the Senator and the Pig's obvious sincerity and character being larger than the difference in their angles of attack, which is considerable.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 27, 2016, 11:58:24 PM
That makes sense!
I thought you might have been referencing the Shrew with one of those pronouns.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 28, 2016, 12:33:39 AM
Nope - but I've been thinking for a while now that Sanders and the huckster were actually courting a lot of the same voters, for all the immense/profound difference in their styles.

There's something in there I want to say about what the Democrats, as a whole, have been doing wrong practically forever that's conceded the populist position to Republicans (who I think sell their base a bill of goods), but that goes into my racist sharecropper paternal grampa as background for my reasoning, running a bit long, and maybe later.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 28, 2016, 01:21:47 AM
I saw a black panelist recently who said that everyone he knew was divided between [Sleezebag] and Sanders.


I figure it's a matter of both of them being spontaneous in a field of people with ghost written speeches, debate responses, and jokes, that have been pre-approved by their donors and focus -group tested and tweaked.

Well, Cruz doesn't quite fit the political mold. He's Princeton/Harvard, he's very smart, and he's very quick. Carson, too, but he's very measured, and sounds like he's well thought out, even when he's improvising. He's certainly no ordinary guy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 28, 2016, 01:46:39 AM
I keep bringing up the time the mass media group mind tried to dean Mrs. Clinton during the cycle before last - when she got a little emotional up in New England talking to a woman about the state the country's in and all news ran it 24/7 for a week like she'd screwed up?  And then her poll numbers improved instead because it was non-stop coverage of her only sincere public moment since she first announced for Senate - remember?

If I had the job of coaching her, I would make her watch that clip, watch it again and again and discuss why it backfired on the idiot mass media group mind trying to generate a Howard Dean feeding frenzy over something trivial, and not let up until she got it.  She's fake and cold and calculating, and if she's really cold and calculating privately for real, okay, stop faking and go Spock in public -it worked for Bakrama- people want a lot of things in their leaders, but one of them is SMART.  Sell what you are, not what you think they want, and let your audience find you.  I need my president to run the country - I already have friends online.

Uno was in first, and right, about the Pig.  He's a show, and nothing but.  A trashy, no-class, racist, show, but possibly probably(!) even less sincere than Clinton.  He's selling flamboyant anger, almost a parody of Reagan - who proved there was an audience for that a very long time ago.  The Pig has always been a deliberately-outrageous act for the publicity, and all we really know about him is that he's a scumbag with women, and scumbag enough to act the way he does in public the last 30 years for the attention.  No telling WHAT his real political opinions are, if any.

Sanders is real, as far as I can tell, or BRILLIANT at faking very good personal integrity/character in the face of the pressures of campaigning and wanting badly to win.  This is not a comment on whether he's right or wrong about ANYthing he says or would do, but I think he's on the level in a way I've seen in no presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter 40 years ago - who carried honest to an actual fault.  (Sanders seems somewhat wiser about when to shut up or change the subject, in fact.  The President needs diplomatic skills beyond blunt honesty.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 28, 2016, 03:59:20 AM
Well, it's looking like Hillary is winning about 3 to 1 with most of the vote counted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 28, 2016, 04:14:44 AM
[shrugs]  Not the outcome I wanted, but the one I expected...

I don't think the primary has EVER still been in contention when it got to North Carolina - but Bakrama the last time is the first I didn't turn out and lodge my protest vote; no one else to vote against him for.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 28, 2016, 07:43:23 PM
Quote
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t58.6885-6/c0.38.526.234/p526x296/12409894_1660954997499759_1249165809_n.jpg)
Benito Mussolini: Donald [Sleezebag] Retweets Quote From Italian Dictator

[Sleezebag] on Sunday retweeted an account that attributed Mussolini's quote, "It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep," to the GOP candidate. Gawker said they created the account.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Benito-Mussolini/107465109283314?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6256427325118320923 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Benito-Mussolini/107465109283314?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6256427325118320923)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 05:28:17 PM
I just read Bernie's love story with commies this morning.
Hillary is the better candidate of those two.
She is incompetent & corrupt, but not insane.

My two cents on [Sleezebag]:
He's won the "crazies" of GOP.
Ok, that's like 1/4 to 1/3.
Still 2/3+ to go to even get close he needs to have 1/2 of U.S. votes.
If I was betting, I'd bet [Sleezebag] is to GOP what Corbyn is to Labour - Finita La Comedia.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 05:50:02 PM
Got a link for that first?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 05:52:53 PM
And hey - I don't necessarily mean for that to sound adversarial - I'd like to read about 'Bernie's love story with commies' for myself.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 05:53:39 PM
Sure.
Quote
As mayor of Burlington, Sanders praised the regimes of Nicaragua and Cuba—claiming bread lines were a sign of economic health

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 06:09:23 PM
Thanks.

Quote
Sanders keeps his Judaism in the background, irking US Jews
Associated Press
By RACHEL ZOLL and JOSEF FEDERMAN  1 hour ago


(http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Hb1grwmL4GLA.jb4xAjDZw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9NjQwO2lsPXBsYW5lO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/04a301a3e05dd80a910f6a706700b849.jpg)
In this Feb. 8, 2016 file photo, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., smiles as he greats attendees during a campaign stop at the University of New Hampshire in Durham, N.H. As Sanders headed toward victory in New Hampshire, pundits noted the barrier he was about to break: Sanders would become the first Jewish candidate to win a major party presidential primary. But since he won that night, instead of the burst of communal pride that usually accompanies such milestones, the response from American Jews has been muted. One reason: The Vermont senator, the candidate who has come closer than any other Jew to being a major party presidential nominee, has mostly avoided discussing his Judaism. (AP Photo/John Minchillo, File)



NEW YORK (AP) — As Bernie Sanders headed toward victory in New Hampshire, observers noted the barrier he was about to break: Sanders would become the first Jewish candidate to win a major party presidential primary.

But instead of the burst of communal pride that usually accompanies such milestones, the response from American Jews has been muted. One reason: The Vermont senator, the candidate who has come closer than any other Jew to being a major party presidential nominee, has mostly avoided discussing his Judaism.

Sanders won't identify the Israeli kibbutz where he briefly volunteered in the 1960s. When reporters found the kibbutz, Sha'ar Ha'amakim in northern Israel, he wouldn't comment.

In New Hampshire, he described himself as "the son of a Polish immigrant," not a Jewish one. At a Democratic debate, he spoke of the historic nature of "somebody with my background" seeking the presidency, but didn't say "Jewish." A recent headline in the liberal Jewish Daily Forward newspaper read, "We Need To Out Bernie Sanders as a Jew — For His Own Good."

Rabbi James Glazier of Temple Sinai, in South Burlington, Vermont, said Sanders' comments were being discussed by fellow rabbis in the liberal Reform movement. "What did he leave out there? He didn't say 'Jewish Polish' immigrant. Reform rabbis have picked up on this big time."

Sanders' lack of religious observance is not what rankles. Many Jews identify "culturally" instead of religiously with the faith.

But unlike some other prominent non-observant Jews, Sanders, during more than three decades as a mayor, congressman and U.S. senator, has developed few relationships with Jewish groups or leaders on religious issues or on Israel. He has supported a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but has not made Israel in a priority.

"I would say that he has never been one of those in Congress who was active in a Jewish caucus, who turned out for Israel, who was involved in those issues — and he still isn't," said Jonathan Sarna, an expert in American Jewish history at Brandeis University.

Ironically, when Sanders gave his most religiously focused campaign speech, he underscored his distance from Judaism. It was last fall at Liberty University, the evangelical school founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell in Virginia, and Sanders addressed the school on Rosh Hashana, or the Jewish New Year.

Discussing his beliefs in the speech, he said he was "motivated by a vision" for social justice "which exists in all of the great religions." Later, he attended a local Rosh Hashana gathering.

The Sanders campaign did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

Sanders has said the Holocaust wiped out much of his father's family in Poland. As a child in Brooklyn, Sanders went to Hebrew school and had a bar mitzvah.

"Being Jewish is very important to us," his brother, Larry, said in an interview. "There was no problem of debate, it was just a given in our lives, just as being Americans was a given in our lives. But Bernard is not particularly religious. He doesn't go to synagogue often. I think he probably goes to synagogue only for weddings and funerals, rather than to pray."

In his secular-leaning home state, Sanders was rarely called on to discuss his faith. In 1988, he married his second wife, Jane, who was raised Roman Catholic.

He has been facing increasing challenges about his support for Israel.

At a 2014 Vermont event, after the war started between Israel and Palestinian Hamas, the Islamic militant group that controls Gaza, some voters demanded Sanders do more to protest Israeli bombing. The war killed more than 2,200 Palestinians in Gaza, including hundreds of civilians, and 73 people on the Israeli side.

Sanders said Israel "overreacted" with the intensity of its attacks, and he called the bombing of U.N. schools "terribly, terribly wrong." But he also criticized Hamas for launching rockets into Israel. Israel has said Hamas is responsible for civilian casualties, since it carried out numerous attacks from residential areas in Gaza.

"I believe in a two-state solution, where Israel has the right to exist in security at the same time the Palestinians have a state of their own," Sanders said.

Despite Sanders' reticence about discussing his Jewish roots, his religious identity is clear, Sarna said.

"I think it is very much a statement about America that someone who everybody knows is of Jewish background and has a Jewish name and sounds Jewish from Brooklyn can get several delegates," Sarna said. "There is a sense that only in America could a Bernie Sanders be a candidate."

____

AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll reported from New York, and Josef Federman from Jerusalem. Aron Heller in Jerusalem and Jill Lawless in London contributed to this report.
http://news.yahoo.com/sanders-keeps-judaism-background-irking-us-jews-162516509.html (http://news.yahoo.com/sanders-keeps-judaism-background-irking-us-jews-162516509.html)



Not exactly a shock that he's Jewish, but the first mention I've seen.  I sorta like that no one I've read thought it worth mentioning...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 06:27:03 PM
Btw the Mussolini quote thing is seriously dumb.
There is nothing wrong with agreeing to quote that is agreeable.
E.g. if Hitler said "Work is the main venue of success", would me retweeting it make me a Nazi?
Mussolini might as well be quoting someone else in all those quotes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 06:39:35 PM
I don't pretend to even think the Fame-[prostitute] is a worthy adult member of the human race, and was taking a cheap-shot.  I admit it freely.  He's a joke, and him falling for that one -and declining to walk it back when caught- is funny.



Fair is fair, and here's the article bin linked:

Quote
When Bernie Sanders Thought Castro and the Sandinistas Could Teach America a Lesson
The Daily Beast
Michael Moynihan  02.28.16 12:01 AM ET


(http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/48557418.cached.jpg)
Photo Illustration by Emil Lendof/The Daily Beast



As mayor of Burlington, Sanders praised the regimes of Nicaragua and Cuba—claiming bread lines were a sign of economic health and press censorship was necessary in wartime.

After the ISIS-orchestrated bloodbath in Paris last November, CBS News informed the three Democratic presidential candidates that a forthcoming debate it was hosting would be shifting focus from domestic to foreign policy.

It seemed like an uncontroversial decision. But it was enough to send Bernie Sanders’s campaign into paroxysms of panic. During a conference call with debate organizers, one Sanders surrogate launched into a “heated” and “bizarre” protest, complaining that CBS was trying to “change the terms of the debate…on the day of the debate,” according to a Yahoo News source.

Still, the clamor from Bernie’s camp wasn’t that bizarre. Bernie understands that the frisson Sanderistas audiences experience isn’t activated by conversations about the Iran nuclear deal. No, Sanders disciples are slain in the spirit by repeated-ad-infinitum sermons about billionaires twisting mustaches, adjusting monocles, and jealously guarding their “rigged system.” It was this message that vaulted Sanders from the mayor’s office to Congress and into the Senate. But foreign-policy questions, The New York Times noted, had a habit of pushing him “out of his comfort zone.”

So here we are: The candidate accused of not caring about foreign policy was the same politico who, years ago, was routinely accused of preferring foreign affairs to the tedium of negotiating overtime pay with the local firefighter’s union. Indeed, after he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont, Sanders turned the town into a fantasy foreign-policy camp. In his 1997 memoir, Outsider in the House, he asked, “how many cities of 40,000 [like Burlington] have a foreign policy? Well, we did.”

What were the policies and ideas that animated his small-town internationalism? In a recent interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo, Sanders was asked about a comment he made in 1974 calling for the CIA’s abolition. He qualified, hedged, and offered a potted history of CIA meddling in the affairs of sovereign countries, all while arguing half-heartedly that his views had long-since evolved toward pragmatism.

If CNN can ambush Sanders by reaching back to 1974 and his not-entirely-unreasonable criticism of the CIA, perhaps another enterprising television journalist will ask the candidate-of-consistency one of the following questions:


— Do you think that American foreign policy gives people cancer?


— Do you think a state of war—be it against the Vietnamese communists, Nicaraguan anti-communists, or al Qaeda’s Islamists—justifies the curtailment of press freedoms?


— Do you stand by your qualified-but-fulsome praise of the totalitarian regime in Cuba? Do you stand by your unqualified-and-fulsome praise of the totalitarian Sandinista regime in Nicaragua?


— Do you believe that bread lines are a sign of economic health?


— Do you think the Reagan administration was engaged in the funding and commissioning of terrorism?


A weird palette of questions, sure, but when Sanders was mayor of Burlington, he answered “yes” to all of them. Hidden on spools of microfilm, buried in muffled and grainy videos of press conferences and public appearances, Mayor Sanders enumerated detailed—and radical—foreign-policy positions and explained his brand of socialism. (If you find foreign-policy debates tedious, feel free to ask Sanders if he still believes that “the basic truth of politics is primarily class struggle”; that “democracy means public ownership of the major means of production”; or that “both the Democratic and Republican parties represent the ruling class.”)

In the 1980s, any Bernie Sanders event or interview inevitably wended toward a denunciation of Washington’s Central America policy, typically punctuated with a full-throated defense of the dictatorship in Nicaragua. As one sympathetic biographer wrote in 1991, Sanders “probably has done more than any other elected politician in the country to actively support the Sandinistas and their revolution.” Reflecting on a Potemkin tour of revolutionary Nicaragua he took in 1985, Sanders marveled that he was, “believe it or not, the highest ranking American official” to attend a parade celebrating the Sandinista seizure of power.

It’s quite easy to believe, actually, when one wonders what elected American official would knowingly join a group of largely unelected officials of various “fraternal” Soviet dictatorships while, just a few feet away, Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega bellows into a microphone that the United States is governed by a criminal band of terrorists.

None of this bothered Sanders, though, because he largely shared Ortega’s worldview. While opposition to Reagan’s policy in Central America—including indefensible decisions like the mining of Managua harbor—was common amongst mainstream Democrats, it was rare to find outright support for the Soviet-funded, Cuban-trained Sandinistas. Indeed, Congress’s vote to cut off administration funding of the anti-Sandinista Contra guerrillas precipitated the Iran-Contra scandal.

But despite its aversion to elections, brutal suppression of dissent, hideous mistreatment of indigenous Nicaraguans, and rejection of basic democratic norms, Sanders thought Managua’s Marxist-Leninist clique had much to teach Burlington: “Vermont could set an example to the rest of the nation similar to the type of example Nicaragua is setting for the rest of Latin America.”

The lesson Sanders saw in Nicaragua could have been plagiarized from an editorial in Barricada, the oafish Sandinista propaganda organ. “Is [the Sandinistas’] crime that they have built new health clinics, schools, and distributed land to the peasants? Is their crime that they have given equal rights to women? Or that they are moving forward to wipe out illiteracy? No, their crime in Mr. Reagan’s eyes and the eyes of the corporations and billionaires that determine American foreign policy is that they have refused to be a puppet and banana republic to American corporate interests.”

But Sanders was mistaking aspirational Sandinista propaganda for quantifiable Sandinista achievement. None of it was true, but it overlaid nicely on top of his own political views. Sanders’s almost evangelical belief in “the revolution” led him from extreme credulity to occasional fits of extreme paranoia.

For instance, in 1987 Sanders hosted Sandinista politician Nora Astorga in Burlington, a woman notorious for a Mata Hari-like guerilla operation that successfully lured Gen. Reynaldo Perez-Vega, a high-ranking figure in the Somoza dictatorship, to her apartment with promises of sex. Perez-Vega’s body was later recovered wrapped in a Sandinista flag, his throat slit by his kidnappers. When Astorga died in 1988 from cervical cancer, Sanders took the occasion to publicly praise Astorga as “a very, very beautiful woman” and a “very vital and beautiful woman,” positing that American foreign policy might have given her cancer. “I have my own feelings about what causes cancer, and the psychosomatic aspects of cancer,” he said. “One wonders if the war didn’t claim another victim; a person who couldn’t deal with the tremendous grief and suffering in her own country.”

(Sanders often lurched toward conspiracy theory to make banal historical events conform to an ideological narrative. He argued that Ronald Reagan was as Manchurian president created by millionaires who run corporations: “Some millionaires in California said ‘Ron, we want you to work for us. We want you to become governor.’ They sat around a table. A dozen millionaires. They made him governor. And then they made him president. And he did his job effectively for those corporations.”)

The conflict in Nicaragua exacerbated Sanders’s more extreme positions. He asked a group of University of Vermont students to consider how “we deal with Nicaragua, which is in many ways Vietnam, except it’s worse. It’s more gross.” His answer was to raise money and civilian materiel for the revolution, establish a sister city program in Nicaragua, and act as a mouthpiece for the Sandinista government.

The local Vermont journalist corps, with whom Sanders had an extraordinarily contentious relationship, occasionally questioned Sanders on Nicaragua’s increasingly dictatorial drift.

In 1985 Sanders traveled to New York City to meet with Ortega just weeks after Nicaragua imposed a “state of emergency” that resulted in mass arrests of regime critics and the shuttering of opposition newspapers and magazines. While liberal critics of Reagan’s Nicaraguan policy rounded on the Sandinistas (talk-show host Phil Donahue told Ortega that his actions looked “fascist”), Sanders refused to condemn the decision. He was “not an expert in Nicaragua” and “not a Nicaraguan,” he said during a press conference. “Am I aware enough of all the details of what is going on in Nicaragua to say ‘you have reacted too strongly?’ I don’t know…” But of course he did know, later saying that the Sandinistas’ brutal crackdown “makes sense to me.”

What “made sense” to Sanders was the Sandinistas’ war against La Prensa, a daily newspaper whose vigorous opposition to the Somoza dictatorship quickly transformed into vigorous opposition of the dictatorship that replaced it. When challenged on the Sandinistas’ incessant censorship, Sanders had a disturbing stock answer: Nicaragua was at war with counterrevolutionary forces, funded by the United States, and wartime occasionally necessitated undemocratic measures. (The Sandinista state censor Nelba Blandon offered a more succinct answer: “They [La Prensa] accused us of suppressing freedom of expression. This was a lie and we could not let them publish it.”)

To underscore his point, Sanders would usually indulge in counterfactual whataboutism: “If we look at our own history, I would ask American citizens to go back to World War II. Does anyone seriously think that President Roosevelt or the United States government [would have] allowed the American Nazi Party the right to demonstrate, or to get on radio and to say this is the way you should go about killing American citizens?” (It’s perhaps worth pointing out that La Prensa never printed tutorials on how to kill Nicaraguans. And it’s also worth pointing out that in 1991, Sanders complained of the “massive censorship of dissent, criticism, debate” by the United States government during the Gulf War.)

Or how about the Reagan counterfactual: “What would President Reagan do if buildings were being bombed? If hospitals were being bombed? If people in our own country were being killed? Do you think President Reagan would say, ‘of course we want the people who are killing our children to get up on radio and explain to the citizens of the country how they are going to kill more of our people?’”

Or perhaps Abraham Lincoln can convince you: “How many of you remember what happened in the American Civil War and Abraham Lincoln’s feeling about how you have to fight that war? And how much tolerance there was in this country, during that war, for people who were not sympathetic to the Union cause?”

While Freedom House and Amnesty International agitated on behalf of La Prensa, Sanders was making excuses for the government that censored its articles, prevented it from buying newsprint, harassed its staffers, and arrested its journalists. “The point is,” he argued, “in American history the opposition press talking about how you could kill your own people and overthrow your own government was never allowed…Never allowed to exist.”

The Burlington Free Press mocked Sanders for playing the role of internationalista dupe and lampooned him for expressing, after just a brief, government-guided tour of Nicaragua, “such approval of the Sandinistas on the basis of what was at best a cursory inspection,” an instinct that “says more about his naïveté in the foreign policy field than anything else.”

Sanders countered that he was free to quiz real Nicaraguans on their political allegiances, but they “laughed” when he asked which party they backed because “of course they are with the government.” When asked about the food shortages provoked by the Sandinistas’ voodoo economic policy, Sanders claimed that bread lines were a sign of a healthy economy, suggesting an equitable distribution of wealth: “It’s funny, sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing! In other countries people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death.” When asked about Nicaragua’s notoriously brutal treatment of the Miskito Indians, the Free Press noted that Sanders “attempted to cut off” the line of questioning. (Ted Kennedy called the Sandinistas’ crimes against the indigenous Miskitos “unconscionable,” “intolerable,” and “disturbing,” commenting that they were relocated at gunpoint to “forced-labor camps which resemble concentration camps.”)

Through the Mayor’s Council on the Arts, Sanders tried to bring some revolutionary third-worldism to Vermont when he funded cable-access television that showed “films from Cuba [and] daily television fare from Nicaragua.” At a press conference, Sanders highlighted the grants that allowed the importation of “films produced in Nicaragua, that appear on Nicaraguan [state] television, on Channel 15. We have films from Cuba on Channel 15.”

Ah, yes, let us not forget the democratic socialist Shangri-La in Havana. In 1989 Sanders traveled to Cuba on a trip organized by the Center for Cuban Studies, a pro-Castro group based in New York, hoping to come away with a “balanced” picture of the communist dictatorship. The late, legendary Vermont journalist Peter Freyne sighed that Sanders “came back singing the praises of Fidel Castro.”

“I think there is tremendous ignorance in this country as to what is going on in Cuba,” Sanders told The Burlington Free Press before he left. It’s a country with “deficiencies,” he acknowledged, but one that has made “enormous progress” in “improving the lives of poor people and working people.” When he returned to Burlington, Sanders excitedly reported that Cuba had “solved some very important problems” like hunger and homelessness. “I did not see a hungry child. I did not see any homeless people,” he told the Free Press. “Cuba today not only has free healthcare but very high quality healthcare.”

Sanders had a hunch that Cubans actually appreciated living in a one-party state. “The people we met had an almost religious affection for [Fidel Castro]. The revolution there is far deep and more profound than I understood it to be. It really is a revolution in terms of values.” It was a conclusion he had come to long before visiting the country. Years earlier Sanders said something similar during a press conference: “You know, not to say Fidel Castro and Cuba are perfect—they are certainly not—but just because Ronald Reagan dislikes these people does not mean to say the people in these nations feel the same.”

There is, of course, a mechanism to measure the levels of popular content amongst the campesinos. Perhaps it’s too much to expect a democratic socialist to be familiar with the free election, a democratic nicety the Cuban government hasn’t availed itself of during its almost 60 years in power.

But Sanders has long been attracted to socialist countries that eschewed democracy. He recalled “being very excited when Fidel Castro made a revolution in Cuba” in 1959. “It just seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising up against a lot of ugly rich people.” In an interview with The Progressive, almost 30 years later, Sanders was still expressing admiration for the Cuban dictatorship: “And what about Cuba? It’s not a perfect society, I grant, but there aren’t children there going hungry. It’s been more successful than almost any other developing country in providing health care for its people. And the Cuban revolution is only 30 years old. It may get even better.”

During his tenure as mayor, Burlington established sister-city programs in Nicaragua and the Soviet Union, and tried—and failed—to create one in Cuba.

By the 1980s, certain elements of the radical left were still defending the honor of the Cuban revolution. But few had kind words for the Soviet Union, with most political pilgrims having long since wandered to Cuba, Vietnam, China, and Cambodia. And Sanders too was routinely critical of the Kremlin, criticizing the invasion of Afghanistan and acknowledging the lack of freedom in the Soviet Union, while still managing a bit of socialist fraternity, praising Moscow for constructing the “cleanest, most effective mass transit system I have ever seen in my life…you wait 15 seconds in rush hour between trains.” He was “impressed” by the state-run youth programs “which go far beyond what we do for young people in this country.”

Sanders has long claimed to be a “democratic socialist”—the type of lefty who loves Sweden, but is offended by the totalitarian socialism that dominated during the Cold War—but he has long employed the tepid language of “imperfection” when discussing the criminal failures of undemocratic socialism. Totalitarians with unfriendly politics are correctly met with derision and thundering demands for extradition and prosecution. So Sanders succinctly described the Chilean murderer, torturer, and destroyer of democracy Augusto Pinochet as a “mass murderer, torturer, and destroyer of democracy.” And Filipino dictator Ferdinand Marcos is rightly tagged as a “crook and murderer.”

Perhaps at this point I don’t need to point out that Fidel Castro is likewise a crook and a murderer. Or that Sandinista strongman Daniel Ortega, while achieving none of the milestones Bernie Sanders once claimed he had achieved, stole enormous amounts of money from the Nicaraguan people and was, to name just one example, behind the infamous bombing at La Penca which killed seven people (including three journalists).

So to my fellow journalists: the next one of you who gets caught in one of Sanders’s riffs about the CIA’s involvement in the overthrow of Iranian leader Mohammed Mossadegh, ask him one of my questions. Ask him how consistent he has been on foreign policy. And help him answer a question posed by a Burlington Free Press journalist in 1985, who wondered if his useful idiot trip to Nicaragua would come back to haunt him in a future race.

“The answer is ‘probably.’ But I’ll be damned if I know how.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson.html)

---

Not to dismiss it as a hit piece, but I note that it's trying to re-fight the murky business in Nicaragua in the 80's -and someone correct me if I'm wrong that the Sandinistas eventually surrendered power peacefully following a democratic election- and while I don't know enough to quibble with any of the assertions of fact, the tone, far from pretending objectivity, is so deeply hostile as to demand being taken with a grain of salt.

TL;DR: Sanders Has radical past  -Now that's journalism!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 07:11:15 PM
If we qualified or dismissed all arguments by their tone, the best ones would never be heard and we would be left with misguided opinions.


This is the worst lineup I remember.
In dems you have a dumb puppet vs Corbyn-look-a-like (I suspect Corbyn to be a puppet too).
In GOP you have a cluster[intercourse]of "dumb and dumber" won by the very predictable winner - yard bully made mafia tycoon.

It's as if every sensible candidate realized it's not in their best interests to run and skipped.

The real question is thus - why are the sensible people skipping it and when this ends?

Btw, I was once a fan of Obama too.
His foreign policy is such a disaster, it will undo any domestic good deeds he might have.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 07:49:04 PM
I find Mr. Sanders to have the non-trivial virtue of not being Mrs. Clinton - not a lot of choices there.  Nobody on the right even meets minimum qualifications unless Kasich pulls off a miracle, and I'm used, after 33 years as a voter, to settling for the lesser of two evils and turning out to lodge my protest vote.

You're British, aren't you?  -You keep bringing up Corbyn.

I was pointing at Bakrama in 2007 and talking about emperors sans trousers - I'd hoped he was what his fanboyz imagined after all, but I pointedly stayed home last time around, which is very much not my habit.  Trying to please all sides has pleased none.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 08:09:27 PM
No, I'm Latvian.

What are the important policy differences between Obama and Sanders?

I understand there are little if any in foreign policy - it is going to be same sad story of withdrawal?

Not being someone can not be a virtue.
Only being someone can.
Otherwise you are running from a known evil into unknown one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 08:16:33 PM
Found this handy tool.
Looks like Bernie is mostly the same as Obama:
http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/1-35/Barack-Obama-vs-Bernie-Sanders (http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/1-35/Barack-Obama-vs-Bernie-Sanders)

Except, in some key areas he is worse.
Quote
Support & expand free trade: Strongly Disagree

Quote
Avoid foreign entanglements: Strongly Agree
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 09:05:02 PM
I can't make heads nor tails of your politics. ;)

I'm intrigued to hear someone on another continent being down on a US candidate for being isolationist - though I imagine it makes more sense coming from a European than most places in the world.  -We didn't screw up there nearly so bad as pretty much all the foreign interventions since 1945 that have made us so beloved ;sarc around the world...

I'm less of a lefty than left-leaning and don't like the right's style at all.  Sanders --- I don't know if he'd actually make a GOOD president, but Clinton's in the pocket of the bossmen and the Republicans are a wholly-owned subsidiary of the bossmen (the Pig IS the bossmen), so I'm running out of choices, there.  Thing is, Sanders isn't going to win and I'm going to have to support Clinton in the end - but I'm making my protest heard well in advance, because if Sanders ain't the guy, some of the positions he represents (not that NO free trade thing) advocating for the poor and the working people, deserve to do well until the Right Guy comes along.

Isolationism is a bad idea to be sure - but this nation has been STUPID abroad for a very long time and needs to get in the habit of SMART before we send in the marines...

-You're making me explain base assumptions I hadn't considered in so many words, and I like that.  That kind of challenging makes for good political conversation, and is a learning experience.  Thanks.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 09:23:34 PM
Quote
I can't make heads nor tails of your politics.
Because I'm not really talking politics.
Regarding policies there are things that work and ones that don't. And plentiful evidence.
E.g. free market works.
Better than anything else by a margin that, when drawn the "else" part looks like the actual margin, rest being the difference between free market and them.
People who oppose free market are delusional.

Regarding people there are things that stick and ones that don't.
I suppose if somebody is corrupt, it's for life.
Similarly, I'm really skeptical that somebody can be a delusional commie or a liar/agent and then "straighten up".
There just aren't that many precedents in history of these things happening.

I also expect [Sleezebag] to "suddenly" become significantly more rational if/once he is in the post.

For Hillary, I expect her actions to at least be explainable by lobbying of certain groups.
Including many of her campaign policies going "poof" same way as for [Sleezebag], once elected.
She does not seem to be delusional, just working along the rules of a puppet.


Quote
I'm intrigued to hear someone on another continent being down on a US candidate for being isolationist - though I imagine it makes more sense coming from a European than most places in the world.  -We didn't screw up there nearly so bad as pretty much all the foreign interventions since 1945 that have made us so beloved ;sarc around the world...
People in U.S. seem to have kind of "we screwed up" syndrome.
What is the rational basis of this feeling of screw up?
U.S. has spent last 70 years creating a global system for its own safety which, by proxy has disabled wars in many other places, thus also propelling economic development, enabling freer, more interconnected markets as well as removing many obstacles for development, including, but not limited to collapse of soviet union and significant difficulties to many other regressive regimes.
How can this be described a screw up?

Screw up is now, when the likes of Obama and Sanders are either doing or proposing to dismantle all this immense work with immense benefits to humanity and civilization in the name of some irrational feeling of guilt.
We already see how that works in Ukraine, Syria and other places.
More people have died in Syria because of U.S. non-intervention that there could be victims of U.S. intervention.
Probably by an order of magnitude.
And I'm not talking about misplaced people and massive economic devastation.

Quote
I'm less of a lefty than left-leaning and don't like the right's style at all.  Sanders --- I don't know if he'd actually make a GOOD president, but Clinton's in the pocket of the bossmen and the Republicans are a wholly-owned subsidiary of the bossmen (the Pig IS the bossmen), so I'm running out of choices, there.
Talking about bossmen.
Do you think Sanders was really so stupid as to say all that bat[poop]about commie regimes or was he in pocket?
Both choices are bad, one invalidates your argument vs Clinton, not that I like her either.

Quote
Thing is, Sanders isn't going to win and I'm going to have to support Clinton in the end - but I'm making my protest heard well in advance, because if Sanders ain't the guy, some of the positions he represents (not that NO free trade thing) advocating for the poor and the working people, deserve to do well until the Right Guy comes along.
The advocating for the poor and working people is a slippery slope.
Many of commie regimes were/are also nominally advocating for the poor and working.
Two of the most powerful got into power this way.
And then proceeded to make everyone poor, until removed/reformed.
There are only so few things you can do in this direction that do not take away from something else, possibly with long term implications.
See tax burden in welfare states.

Quote
Isolationism is a bad idea to be sure - but this nation has been STUPID abroad for a very long time and needs to get in the habit of SMART before we send in the marines...
You are talking stupid vs pure evil.
I pick a stupid marine vs marauding robber regime like so many in the places "opposed to US" any time of the day.
Clinton's corruption is nothing compared to what you get when "stupid marine" leaves.


Btw, Iraq is cited as prime example of being stupid abroad.
My opinion, which is partly borrowed from people much smarter on the topic is that Hussein had to be disposed of 1991.
That would solve ISIS, since ISIS is mostly Hussein's former troops + some cream on top.
What was screwed up in Iraq was not the military action or the fact it took place, but:
1. It was too late. Significant radicalisation under Saddam had already happened.
2. The administration post invasion blew in a major way, in particular, by disbanding the Iraqi army, which was still more secular than general population.

You're welcome. :)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on February 29, 2016, 09:36:31 PM
More on the "stupid marine" vs "local actors".
Just think of all the conflict zones in last 10 years and try to filter out those where, you being a citizen there, you would choose "local actors" vs "stupid marine".
E.g. for Syria, I'd say 80%+ people would choose the "stupid marine" vs chemical-gassing, cluster-bombing Assad and his friends, Russia, Iran & ISIS.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 29, 2016, 10:21:54 PM
Found this handy tool.
Looks like Bernie is mostly the same as Obama:
http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/1-35/Barack-Obama-vs-Bernie-Sanders (http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/1-35/Barack-Obama-vs-Bernie-Sanders)

Except, in some key areas he is worse.
Quote
Support & expand free trade: Strongly Disagree

Quote
Avoid foreign entanglements: Strongly Agree



I checked out the website.
Well, I would describe Sanders as being left of both President Obama, and the entire US Senate. So I might describe him as worse, rather than the same. 
His idea of Medicare for all, jacking the minimum wage to $15/hour, and free college, are rather generous. The Obama administration compared it to flying puppies for everyone with winning Lotto tickets attached to their collars.


But this is as good a time as any to declare what I like about Bernie.
One of the comments on that website stood out to me- "No other candidate commands the sort of authenticity that Bernie Sanders does. He has a consistent voting record, and a history of activism that predates his political career. He is a civil rights giant, a champion of the middle class, and he has the stones to stand up to Wall Street. There is no better choice for president."

#1) Sanders is nothing if not uncommonly authentic as presidential candidates go. What you see is what you'll get. His positions haven't been strategically chosen to split voting blocks, or win in key states, or been tweaked by endless focus groups and major donors. So that's refreshing, and it inspires many.

#2) His position against the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling. He recognizes that corporations are legal fiction for commercial purposes, and shouldn't be treated as a person regarding personal freedoms such as religion, political participation, etc.

#3) I think that he, more than Hillary/Obama, or any of the remaining Republican candidates, would be reluctant to jump into a foreign war without a constitutional declaration.

#4) I like his low key approach to his religion. I knew he was Jewish, and most of the stuff in that previous post. Too often presidents make a show of it, or try to impose it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 10:46:35 PM
Note that Rusty is a right-(small government)conservative, and I am not.



bin, you kinda have to have been in this country watching the (US is the center of the universe) news in the 80s to get a sense of where I'm coming from with not being real impressed that Sanders was openly sympathetic to Ortega.  Pretty much nobody on either side seemed rational on Nicaragua for about a decade, not least because there was. no. unbiased. information. about what was going on in Nicaragua, and one side said black and the other said white, and it was just a mess.  The Sandinistas appear to have been some ugly customers, but not near so hideous as the thugs we backed.  We have a long, bad, cold war record in Central and South America of undemocratic interference, overthrowing elected governments and propping up brutal, murdering dictators.  I've asked t_ras to come comment on that, as he's from Argentina... But that's where that attitude comes from - the Marshal Plan was a very long time ago.

Google the Sandinistas - I was right about the democracy, in the long run.


I'd lay my money on an average randomly-chosen Iraqi preferring we'd stayed out.  -Obviously, the average Kurd might beg to differ, but you can't piss off everyone any more than you can please them all.

---

This is not a rational country anymore, and right now we're in a lot more danger of Hitler coming back than Stalin, metaphorically-speaking.  A plague on both their mass-murdering houses, anyway.

I've got no entirely satisfactory choices before me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on February 29, 2016, 11:45:08 PM
Fornication!
I just read the Sanders as commie apologist piece. "They" have him on record and on film acting like that? Showing such gullibility and bad judgement?
So they're just sitting on it until they need it...

Sanders is +15% vs. [Sleezebag]. One of my no Hillary or [Sleezebag] scenarios featured a powerless president Sanders. Neither of those two will let that happen.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 29, 2016, 11:53:38 PM
Eh, we've already got a powerless president, and I'm tired of that.

Bernie'll be out of it before I go vote for him anyway, and then we'll all be holding our noses come November and making an obnoxious choice.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 01, 2016, 01:01:34 AM
Sadly true. I just saw a comparison of committed delegates and super-delegates.

I think Kasich still has a better chance, mathematically, than Sanders. That ain't right ( considering popular support ) , but that's the Democrats for you - rather undemocratic.

NBC did a story on Republican discontent with [Sleezebag], since he was too slow to repudiate David Duke. Fearing he will not govern as a conservative if actually elected, but even more likely is that [Sleezebag] at the top of the ticket will lose a lot of senate seats.

Romney has been waging a counter-tweet war against [Sleezebag], speculating about what's on his tax returns, rightly pointing out that he can release returns from previous years that aren't still being audited, denouncing him for his handling of David Duke and racists. Now he is pointing out that if need be, there is still time for Republicans to defect to the Constitutionalist party, for example.

This deserves some looking into. I'll get back to you.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 01:19:00 AM
I am hoping. and. praying. that they will be dumb enough to do that and hand it on a platter to (gag) Clinton.

God, I hate having to live in this world...


Also, good for Romney.  ISTR mentioning that he wasn't so bad a few times, last cycle - if only he wasn't in the torture party.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 01, 2016, 01:52:16 AM
Just when I was getting resigned that [Sleezebag] will be the GOP nominee....

From an article about "#NEVERTRUMP"

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-29/the-die-hard-republicans-who-say-nevertrump (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-29/the-die-hard-republicans-who-say-nevertrump)

“Despite the vacancy on the Supreme Court I will not vote for president in this election if [Sleezebag] is the GOP candidate. He is a buffoon, has no class & is not conservative. If Hillary is elected I think the republic will survive. If [Sleezebag] is elected I have my doubts that it will.”

The article is a collection of tweets and e-mails from life-long Republicans who fear that the nomination of [Sleezebag] could bring about the destruction of the party, and his election as president could do the same for the country.

Rather than share more quotes, I'll keep the post short and keep searching for more articles.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 01:59:19 AM
There it is.  Cruz is horrible and Rubio is way too green, but either would make a merely bad president.  Little as I think of Mrs. Clinton -Mr. Clinton was my absolute last choice of the democrats when he first came around, and she's no better- I'm not convinced that she'd even be bad.  I just don't want to be in the same universe with all the Clinton haters for four or more years.  But she WILL be the only qualified candidate to choose from...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 01, 2016, 02:04:38 AM
Possible party split weighs on GOP ahead of Super Tuesday


 David Jackson, USA TODAY 8:07 p.m. EST February 29, 2016
-super-tuesday-marco-rubio-ted-cruz-john-kasich-ben-carson/81113122/]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/29/donald-[Sleezebag]-super-tuesday-marco-rubio-ted-cruz-john-kasich-ben-carson/81113122/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/29/donald-[Sleezebag)

Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., in a Facebook post, said he would never back the New York billionaire and would look for "a third candidate" if faced with the choice of him and Clinton.



GOP senator says he'll seek 'third candidate' if [Sleezebag] is nominee


Citing [Sleezebag] statements ranging from praise for Russia's Vladimir Putin to pledges to "open up" libel laws in order to sue more journalists, Sasse said that "Mr. [Sleezebag]’s relentless focus is on dividing Americans, and on tearing down rather than building back up this glorious nation."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 02:12:09 AM
About the third party thing: it's horrible bad short-term strategy for the right.  Period.

But the GOP has been deeply schitz and is getting terminal -and this IS one of the symptoms of that- and it's past time for the libertarian/pure small-government conservatives to get out of bed with the theocon know-nothings and maybe try to build something else - the social conservatives (who came in with Reagan, not a real conservative) are innately statist, more antithetical to pure conservatism than the liberals.

So go take over the Libertarian Party, ditch the habitual low-class bad-mouthing -deep six all the fascist stuff like torture entirely- and advance pragmatic policies fair to everyone, and I will seriously consider jumping on that bus.  Policies that consider the crapiness of increasing bureaucracy and try to pay the bills without raising taxes don't HAVE to hold hands with hating homos and keeping the bossmen on top.

It could be the winning way for the long term, and this farce could be the fuse that sets it off.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 01, 2016, 03:34:11 AM




http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/republican-party-split-on-donald-[Sleezebag]-ahead-of-super-tuesday-1.11524220



The Associated Press asked Republican senators and governors across the country if they would support [Sleezebag] if he secured the nomination. Just under half of those who responded would not commit to backing him, foreshadowing a potentially extraordinary break this fall.

"I am increasingly concerned by Donald [Sleezebag]'s statements and behavior, and I have serious concerns about his ability to win the general election and provide presidential leadership," Indiana Sen. Dan Coats said in a statement to AP.

The concern among Republican leaders appeared to grow in light of [Sleezebag]'s refusal to immediately disavow former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke's support.

Mitt Romney, the party's 2012 nominee, called that "disqualifying." And South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, campaigning in Atlanta alongside Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, said she would "not stop fighting a man who refuses to disavow the KKK."


[Sleezebag] said he had not understood the interviewer who first raised the question about Duke, and he did later repudiate him. "How many times do I have to continue to disavow people?" he said.

********************************************************

The words "Excuses are like Trumps. Everybody's got one, and they all stink!" come to mind.

[Sleezebag] needs to man up. It's one thing speak your mind. I imagine that is much of his appeal. The problem I have is that when he does get called on it, he invariably weasels! Comments about Megan Kelly, Jeb's wife, and Carly Fiorina come to mind. The responsible thing to do is to stand by what you said and explain it, or assume full responsibility and apologize. He does neither. He weasels.

No excuses. He's running for president of a nuclear super-power. It's a position of great responsibility. You don't get to lash out at somebody who irritates you, and then say it was somebody else's fault, or you didn't really do it, or mean it.

When you do it, you better mean it. When you screw up, you better own it. The buck stops here.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 04:05:52 AM
I've read The Dead Zone -the movie version was okay, too- and the Scumbag makes me very nervous, given that he reminds me to make that connection.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 06:33:20 AM
Quote
Well, I would describe Sanders as being left of both President Obama, and the entire US Senate. So I might describe him as worse, rather than the same. 
His idea of Medicare for all, jacking the minimum wage to $15/hour, and free college, are rather generous. The Obama administration compared it to flying puppies for everyone with winning Lotto tickets attached to their collars.
That was roughly my point to BUncle - if he thinks Obama is bad, is Sanders so much better when many of Sander's ideas are same or supersized version of Obama's.

I live in country where in past the state provided free healthcare, jobs, schooling, near-free transport etc.
I understand most people in U.S. have never seen it, and probably would not want to see it, if only they knew what it leads to.
What happens when you give too many things free to people is mass dumbing-down of society.
They start to expect and demand everything from the state and take it for granted, start to blame the state for everything that happens to them and the levels of individual initiative and risk-taking are drastically reduced.


Quote
No other candidate commands the sort of authenticity that Bernie Sanders does. He has a consistent voting record, and a history of activism that predates his political career.
This would make me cautious as it would indicate he has not really changed his thought about "bread lines being sign of economic health", etc.

In an Obama vs Sanders comparison Sanders seems to be the more left and more isolationist candidate, both are things that americans don't need, they just haven't understood it yet.
For people who have "lived left" and seen results of U.S. isolationism this is really scary.
For me, living next to Russia this is "where and when I run" type of scary.

Quote
I was right about the democracy, in the long run.
Same way you could say USSR was not so bad because in the end they gave way to democracy (almost) peacefully.
Well, it's just not true. Crime is crime.
If somebody ignores it while being informed or tries to wrap a lie around it, they are complicit.

Quote
I'd lay my money on an average randomly-chosen Iraqi preferring we'd stayed out.  -Obviously, the average Kurd might beg to differ, but you can't piss off everyone any more than you can please them all.
This all depends on whether you ask this before U.S. withdrawal or after.
U.S. withdrew from both Iraq and Afghanistan too soon, leaving a power vacuum which is now allowing regressive forces to grip those countries.
So, if you ask some Iraqi now, they'd tell you, "you'd better stayed out" not because you came in in the first place, but because after coming in you screwed up completely by leaving the country before it could live on it's own security-wise.

I'm following some Syrians on Twitter.
They feel completely betrayed by U.S.
Not only they didn't get the no-fly zone they were expecting, but the help they did get was meager and now most of it goes to the kurds, who are actively cooperating with Assad.

I agree about rationality.
From outside it looks like people in the U.S. have forgotten they are americans.
The set of values always associated with America for an Eastern European like me seem to be in places the exact opposite of today's wishes of average american.
And it's not like the lessons have not been there.
Just the wrong conclusions are made from them (Iraq, auto industry vs unions, etc), often the exact opposite of what had to be concluded.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 08:39:29 AM
More on Iraqis thinking they would be better off w/o U.S. intervention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq#Number_of_victims
Quote
Of nearly 2 million refugees created by the 1991 crackdown on dissent, it is estimated that 1,000 died every day for a period of months due to unsanitary and inhumane conditions.

Looks like this is just another mis-informed view in U.S. that has serious implications on U.S. politics & foreign policy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 06:05:47 PM
bin, you couldn't be more sadly mistaken that my problem with the President is that he's too liberal.  What the right say about him is near to 100% fantasies and lies - he's a moderate with no fight in him against far-right extremism, trying instead to compromise and make deals with cranks who won't deal.

One of my many problems with Mrs. Clinton is that she not very different - though she, at least, has no illusions about the enemy negotiating.

-More later if I can get caught up on forum housekeeping...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 06:13:50 PM
Quote
Robert Reich explains why he endorses Bernie Sanders despite Clinton ties
Michael Walsh  Reporter  February 29, 2016



The former secretary of labor under the Clinton administration thinks that Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is leading the movement best suited to address the excesses of income inequality in the United States.

Robert Reich, professor of public policy at UC Berkeley, spoke to Yahoo Global News Anchor Katie Couric on Monday about his reasons for endorsing Sanders over former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“I always try to do whatever my conscience tells me to do. I think very, very highly of Hillary Clinton. I’ve worked closely with her. I have nothing but admiration, and if she gets the Democratic nomination, I tell you I’m going to work my heart out to make sure she’s president,” Reich said in a phone interview.  “But on this one, I really struggled.”

Despite his close ties with the Clintons, Reich was attracted to the Sanders campaign because of its emphasis on addressing income and wealth inequality. The growing divide between the rich and poor and the struggles of the dwindling middle class are among Reich’s chief concerns.

“Bernie Sanders is really leading a movement to try to reverse this, to make our democracy work, to get big money out, and I think that’s extremely important. That’s why I’m supporting him,” he said.

Couric asked Reich how it would be possible for Sanders to follow through on his plans for campaign finance reform after the Supreme Court’s Citizen’s United decision that corporations are people with the same rights as citizens.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/.dbT7sxU8m.2ZzthzFeoxA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg1MztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/83467e32ef4c116be32800ff64294b8f3e7342b1.jpg)
Robert Reich was labor secretary under President Bill Clinton. (Photo: Steve Russell/Toronto Star via Getty Images)


The economist, who is an active liberal voice on social media, responded that mass mobilization is the only way to bring fundamental change to this nation – as evidenced by the civil rights and women’s suffrage movements.

“That’s why Bernie Sanders’ candidacy is so important. He does represent a movement, a mobilization to get big money out of politics,” he said.

Clinton needs to work hard, he said, to demonstrate that she is not tethered to Wall Street.

Reich expressed pride for his role in her husband’s administration in the 1990s but lamented that Wall Street still had too much sway over politics at the time.

“I don’t want to in any way denigrate Hillary Clinton. As I said, she’s been somebody who I’ve known for 50 years. I think that in these days where people have some justifiable concerns about Wall Street and its political power, its political connections, particularly after the Wall Street bailouts, it is very important that there not even be the appearance of impropriety.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Gf0996TWOzpHi13vYRWEPg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg1MztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/a13216889667efacba613547a191905b09561dd7.jpg)
Bernie Sanders raises a fist and marches around after speaking during a rally at Colorado State University’s Moby Arena on Sunday, February 28, 2016. (Photo: Aaron Ontiveroz/The Denver Post via Getty Images)
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/robert-reich-explains-why-he-1375868143501366.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/robert-reich-explains-why-he-1375868143501366.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 07:12:55 PM
I said this yesterday:
This is not a rational country anymore, and right now we're in a lot more danger of Hitler coming back than Stalin, metaphorically-speaking.
I mean it everyday.

That's really all I have to say to what I found when I logged in this morning. We're in no danger of turning communist here in the US; quite the opposite.  We're halfway to the unforms and the sieg heil, not that the one sort of aggressive murdering police state looks very different than the other, ultimately.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 07:22:55 PM
Quote
What the right say about him is near to 100% fantasies and lies - he's a moderate with no fight in him against far-right extremism, trying instead to compromise and make deals with cranks who won't deal.
You mean like those insane quotes are made up?
I'd be careful with that.

Especially if people also say he's been very consistent for years.

Quote
bin, you couldn't be more sadly mistaken that my problem with the President is that he's too liberal.
I didn't say that or at least didn't think that.

As I already explained, I don't "think politics" so much as I "think reality".
Truth is, there are ideas that work and ideas that don't.
And they are neither overwhelmingly on the "right" or "left" as people like to brand them and during our history the "center of gravity" of "ideas that work" has shifted from one side to another quite a few times.

Here's just a few things that I consider "ideas that work":
 - liberalism
 - free market
 - globalisation
 - military strength and power projection
 - moralism with relative comparison as a basis for foreign policy

Let me explain the last two, since they may not be obvious.
We live in Pax Americana, a period of civilisation characterised by extended peace and great achievements in prosperity in technology.
This is all because some influential americans some 70 years ago had the idea that if they don't use their resources to make the world a better, safer place (first for them, and as a consequence for many others), somebody else will.
Now we have americans who think that despite massive evidence to the contrary, their influence is leaving the rest of the world worse off.
It seems that Obama and Sanders has this very bad idea which is already hurting millions of people and will in the end hurt americans themselves in a number of ways and on massive scale.


Morals is something people invented because they had enough time on their hands so as not to focus on their very immediate needs.
Ultimately it serves a greater good, by improving the connection between persons by setting up a "framework" of expectations and trust.
The amount of free time differs across countries and thus the amount of morals that are implemented.
This relationship is reciprocal.
You can successfully argue that if people in some backwards place tended to be more honest to each other, they would quickly improve out of their backwardness.
Morals do not work if we apply them horizontally across heterogenous societies, because if those other societies have not yet evolved to the level of your morals, they will just use your morals as a weakness, because you are more predictable and thus easier to exploit.
Instead of using morals as a "common framework" everyone agrees to be necessary and knows they will be worse off without, these people act like carrying a gun in a room full of people who have agreed guns are dangerous and discarded them.
E.g. you can't apply your framework of trust and morals to Russian elite, Iranian leaders and many other people U.S. deals with.
John Kerry is demonstrating big time, how morals "work" when you apply american morals to a society that is living at a different/lower morality standard.

This is also part of an argument against deliberations "should we invade Iraq" or any other place.
Truth is, american morals, imperfect they may be, are likely to be higher, sometimes an order of magnitude higher than those of target country, which means interventions often should be a no-brainer, as long as the balance sheet of tangibles is not in the red and there are no significant intangibles with negative value given intervention.

If you were to one day invade Latvia, it is entirely possible that the military administration you impose would not be more corrupt or less humane than the government we have elected ourselves.
And it's Latvia, an EU country and not the worse corruption statistics in the world.


Different question is - would the people of the place be able to put themselves together in a sane way after intervention, so that you can leave them to their own devices.

This is a very country-specific question, and if you are looking for answers regarding Middle East, you should look no further than the strangely straight borders of countries there and this document: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement
There are quite a few historical precedents to conclude that sovereign countries with mixed ethnic and/or religious groups inside them do not work long-term.
We used to call them "empires", and half-jokingly say that "all empires end some day".
Iraq & Syria were/are empires - countries where a group related to one of ethnic/religious groups rules a diverse population of other ethnic/religious groups.
Empire: "A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority."
It was now their time to fall.
Had they fallen earlier or had U.S. or someone else helped to fall them earlier, a lot of misery would have been averted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 07:25:37 PM
Quote
That's really all I have to say to what I found when I logged in this morning. We're in no danger of turning communist here in the US; quite the opposite.  We're halfway to the unforms and the sieg heil, not that the one sort of aggressive murdering police state looks very different than the other, ultimately.
U.S. has been reducing military/withdrawing from foreign policy for the most part of Obama, so even if it looks like this on the inside, the outside and the foreign policy reality is quite the opposite.
And Sanders is looking to keep on that track.

If you're thinking [Sleezebag], he has not even won his nomination yet, so I'm not considering him at all.
I'm talking what I see from Obama.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 01, 2016, 07:30:52 PM
Quote
Well, I would describe Sanders as being left of both President Obama, and the entire US Senate. So I might describe him as worse, rather than the same. 
His idea of Medicare for all, jacking the minimum wage to $15/hour, and free college, are rather generous. The Obama administration compared it to flying puppies for everyone with winning Lotto tickets attached to their collars.
That was roughly my point to BUncle - if he thinks Obama is bad, is Sanders so much better when many of Sander's ideas are same or supersized version of Obama's.

I live in country where in past the state provided free healthcare, jobs, schooling, near-free transport etc.
I understand most people in U.S. have never seen it, and probably would not want to see it, if only they knew what it leads to.
What happens when you give too many things free to people is mass dumbing-down of society.
They start to expect and demand everything from the state and take it for granted, start to blame the state for everything that happens to them and the levels of individual initiative and risk-taking are drastically reduced.


Quote
No other candidate commands the sort of authenticity that Bernie Sanders does. He has a consistent voting record, and a history of activism that predates his political career.
This would make me cautious as it would indicate he has not really changed his thought about "bread lines being sign of economic health", etc.

In an Obama vs Sanders comparison Sanders seems to be the more left and more isolationist candidate, both are things that americans don't need, they just haven't understood it yet.
For people who have "lived left" and seen results of U.S. isolationism this is really scary.
For me, living next to Russia this is "where and when I run" type of scary.

Quote
I was right about the democracy, in the long run.
Same way you could say USSR was not so bad because in the end they gave way to democracy (almost) peacefully.
Well, it's just not true. Crime is crime.
If somebody ignores it while being informed or tries to wrap a lie around it, they are complicit.

Quote
I'd lay my money on an average randomly-chosen Iraqi preferring we'd stayed out.  -Obviously, the average Kurd might beg to differ, but you can't piss off everyone any more than you can please them all.
This all depends on whether you ask this before U.S. withdrawal or after.
U.S. withdrew from both Iraq and Afghanistan too soon, leaving a power vacuum which is now allowing regressive forces to grip those countries.
So, if you ask some Iraqi now, they'd tell you, "you'd better stayed out" not because you came in in the first place, but because after coming in you screwed up completely by leaving the country before it could live on it's own security-wise.

I'm following some Syrians on Twitter.
They feel completely betrayed by U.S.
Not only they didn't get the no-fly zone they were expecting, but the help they did get was meager and now most of it goes to the kurds, who are actively cooperating with Assad.

I agree about rationality.
From outside it looks like people in the U.S. have forgotten they are americans.
The set of values always associated with America for an Eastern European like me seem to be in places the exact opposite of today's wishes of average american.
And it's not like the lessons have not been there.
Just the wrong conclusions are made from them (Iraq, auto industry vs unions, etc), often the exact opposite of what had to be concluded.

I find your perspective particularly interesting. I don't have time to discuss it today. I hope you stick around.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
[ninja'd.  What Rusty said, too.  You express your own opinions articulately, stimulate thoughtful (I hope) responses, and that's what the political conversation should be.]

And I'm talking about I have to consider a lot more than what's good for Latvia.

Isolationism doesn't work - granted.  Putin claims not to be a communist, and Putin's your problem.  I don't know what would be best thing to do about the recent imperialist aggression in Ukraine and elsewhere in the region - but it ought to be stopped.  But you're making the same mistake the CIA kept making in Central and South America during the cold war; looking out for short-term limited interests that may not be what's right or good for the most people the longest.  A US gone police state, or in chaos, is bad for everyone.

I'd be a lot more worried about Sander's most radical speech and behavior were it not for a long, long record afterwards in Washington as a working Congressman and Senator who pragmatically got things done.  I'd put a lot more attention to what he's saying now than what he was saying in the 80s when little was at stake from the mayor of a rather small (and radically liberal, or he'd not have kept getting re-elected) city.

I regret that the bot invasion underway and a project I'm working on is pulling so much of my attention away from answering in more detail...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 08:02:05 PM
Quote
Isolationism doesn't work - granted.  Putin claims not to be a communist, and Putin's your problem.  I don't know what would be best thing to do about the recent imperialist aggression in Ukraine and elsewhere in the region - but it ought to be stopped.  But you're making the same mistake the CIA kept making in Central and South America during the cold war; looking out for short-term limited interests that may not be what's right or good for the most people the longest.
The long-term solution is keeping your promises and backing them up with action or believable promise of action.
This is what Obama is not doing and what is enabling Syria crisis, Ukraine crisis and now possible disintegration of EU due to non-involvement of U.S. in these crises.
This will only lead to significant reduction of stability (to say the least) in every area U.S. has influenced to keep stable in past and as a consequence, to massive problems in U.S. itself as much of it's economy relies on there existing a global, relatively stable market for U.S. high-value-added goods/services and global, relatively stable (and thus cheap) market for raw materials.

Quote
A US gone police state, or in chaos, is bad for everyone.
What makes you think it's going that way?
From what I read of the past U.S., it seems that, on a personal level, U.S. has grown increasingly liberal starting around the time of Vietnam war, albeit since at least Kennedy the politics have been hijacked by some you were well warned about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 08:20:22 PM
All the Republican candidates announced in favor of torture interrogations recently.  The Pig wasn't instantly laughed out of the race, and has been saying racist things in public ever since.  Gitmo is still open, and Dick Cheney isn't in prison for treason.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 01, 2016, 09:42:57 PM
Isn't what you describe more like "keep status quo" stance?
Haven't these things been a reality since like 60s at least?
Are they not being slowly and painfully dismantled, instead of being stepped up?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 09:52:21 PM
No.  None of the aforementioned outrages are more than 15 years old - this country took a bad, bad turn after the thing that happened in New York.  Our current status quo is unacceptable, and parts are getting worse instead of better.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 01, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
Quote
Isolationism doesn't work
It worked just fine for the USA for quite some time. It certainly works better than trying to be the worlds policeman.
"Friends with all allies with none." Thomas Jefferson
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 10:53:00 PM
^Talk to him, bin.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 01, 2016, 11:07:04 PM
Funny thing - Western Europeans are so fond of saying that the US has a center-right party and an extreme-right party, that I get pretty surprised sometimes when Central and Eastern Europeans speak up.  It's like you guys aren't all one person who thinks exactly alike.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 02, 2016, 12:30:49 AM
Isn't what you describe more like "keep status quo" stance?
Haven't these things been a reality since like 60s at least?
Are they not being slowly and painfully dismantled, instead of being stepped up?

As Buncle said, 911 changed things. Police Departments have been militarized. Electronic surveillance no longer requires an order from a judge, and the technology continues to improve. We still have a confiscation system, whereby police can seize property for profit when they find drugs, and we're subject to many more security checks than we used to be.

Then there is the matter of improved drones, Obama's foreign tool of choice, and he doesn't want to rule out using them against targets here in the USA. The CIA may have been scaled back, but that just means that functions have been hidden in the Homeland Security and Defense departments.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 02:28:27 AM
^This.^

I know a Republican I can talk politics with profitably who lives in Tennessee, so when he said Hello on Skype tonight, I asked him who he voted for:

"Rubio" he said.
"I had to try to stop [Sleezebag]."

Not a lot of choices in front of any of us...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 03:01:17 AM
Talking about people living in a news reality bubble with the same guy.

Getting all your news from MSNBC is also bad, I've pointed out - also to my sister IRL.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 02, 2016, 05:02:04 AM
Determinations according to the New York Times

Alabama- [Sleezebag], Cruz , Rubio
Arkansas- "          "         "
Georgia-   [Sleezebag], tie between Cruz & Rubio
Massachusetts- [Sleezebag], tie between Kassich & Rubio
Minnesota- Rubio, Cruz, [Sleezebag]
Oklahoma- Cruz, [Sleezebag], Rubio
Tennessee- [Sleezebag], Cruz, Rubio
Texas-       Cruz, [Sleezebag], Rubio
Vermont- Too Close to Call with  [Sleezebag] and Kasich fighting for 1st, followed by Rubio.
Virginia- [Sleezebag], Rubio, Cruz
Alaska- No Returns

[Sleezebag] was expected to win everything but Texas. So Minnesota and Oklahoma are upsets.

Cruz's strategy was supposed to be an Evangelical win in Iowa, followed up with South Carolina and the Southern states tonight. He won Iowa, but lost South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia. [Sleezebag] as done better with Evangelicals than Cruz in most of those  contests.

Rubio's plan was to stay in for the long haul, and build his delegate count.

I think Kassich was trying to hang on for the Great Lakes states, and point out that he does well in the states needed to win a general election.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 02, 2016, 05:40:53 AM
March 5: Kansas, Kentucky (Republican), Louisiana, Maine (Republican) and Nebraska (Democrat)

March 6: Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan; Maine (Democrat) and Puerto Rico (Republican)

March 8: Hawaii (Republican), Idaho (Republican), Michigan and Mississippi

March 9: Democratic debate in Miami

March 10: Republican debate in Miami

March 12: District of Columbia (Republican), Guam (Republican) and Northern Mariana Islands (Democrat)

March 15: Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Northern Mariana Islands (Republican) and Ohio

March 19: U.S. Virgin Islands (Republican)

March 21: Republican debate in Salt Lake City

March 22: American Samoa (Republican), Arizona, Idaho (Democrat) and Utah

March 26: Alaska, Hawaii and Washington State (all three Democrat)


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 02, 2016, 07:14:19 AM
Quote
It worked just fine for the USA for quite some time. It certainly works better than trying to be the worlds policeman.
"Friends with all allies with none." Thomas Jefferson

You mean "worked just fine while the rest of the world almost killed itself thus depriving U.S. of important markets, which caused, e.g. the 1920.-1921. slump"?
Also, try that in the age of ballistic missiles and nukes and see how it goes.
Also, try building Silicon Valley while being encroached by hostile regimes.

So, it only "worked" and was a reality as long as there was no credible threat to US.
In mid thirties it was plentifully clear in U.S. elite that that age is over.
See various fleet/air force programs designed to deal with the new possible threats.

As I already explained, U.S. needs the rest of the world to be a stable market open for U.S. goods/services.
That or your economy is bust, especially with the current debt levels.
The price you pay for that in defense expenses may be too large, but the actions Obama is taking compared to US capabilities are disproportionally low.


That 911 thing is a good argument for intervention.
Had U.S. intervened in Afghanistan earlier, would probably not be possible and while you'd get more expenses for defense, you'd also retain more liberties and have less spending for internal forces.


Quote
Funny thing - Western Europeans are so fond of saying that the US has a center-right party and an extreme-right party, that I get pretty surprised sometimes when Central and Eastern Europeans speak up.  It's like you guys aren't all one person who thinks exactly alike.

We don't hold Western European politicians in high regard either.
E.g. in UK they have a freaking parallel justice system, based on Sharia law.
And have allowed other basic rights to be "relative" because "cultural differences".
Moral relativism and rampant PC is on the loose in at least UK, Germany & Sweden.
A (relatively) small immigrant population has changed Western Europe's face for the worst.
The most important values like "one law for all" and freedom of speech are given up in the name of "understanding cultural differences" and "not inciting ethnic tensions".

And many don't even realize it is going on, because the media would not report it (see Cologne rape vs media), they are told not to wander into ghettos and racial segregation is abundant in large cities (just see London district ethnic/religious/race statistics).
Since I am an Eastern European and have relatives that have emigrated to UK, Germany, Norway, I get quite a lot of first-hand insights, because immigrants more often than not tend to live in those same ghettos (real estate price) and see what is going on with the "multiculturalism" there.


The whole Syria thing could be solved by EU too.
But they did nothing and when [poop] hit the fan, Merkel merrily invited all refugees to Germany.
She did not consult either Germans themselves nor services who would have to take care of them.
Result - massive extra costs for Germany (not sure how/when extra working hands the immigrants provide are going to return this investment), massive reduction in own popularity, massive dissent in other EU countries, who were not given a voice, but immigrants either move through them in their way (Greece, Hungary, Slovenia) or are "spilling over" (Sweden, Denmark, France, UK), massively increased chance of Brexit (was 40/60, now 50/50) and with it, collapse of EU, countries mulling suspension of Shengen, etc.

This also fed hugely into rise of the right in EU, which was happening anyway, because the right mostly correctly warned about the things that DID happen in the end:
1. Most of so called "refugees" are not. Donald Tusk, EU, admitted that only around 30% could rightly be considered refugees and many of those come from Turkey where they have been granted asylum, housing, etc, so they are technically/legally "economic migrants" (migrating towards better accommodation in rich Europe).
https://euobserver.com/migration/131363 (https://euobserver.com/migration/131363)

2. There are radicals/jihadists among them. Now confirmed that some of the latest attacks and attempts came from people who used immigration flow to immigrate without having to pass any checks.
http://www.businessinsider.com/paris-attacker-syrian-migrant-2015-11 (http://www.businessinsider.com/paris-attacker-syrian-migrant-2015-11)

3. The facilities are not ready to indiscriminately take in everybody:
http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/we-cant-take-any-more-germany-closes-border-stops-all-trains.html/ (http://pamelageller.com/2015/09/we-cant-take-any-more-germany-closes-border-stops-all-trains.html/)

4. Crime will increase and police is not ready to cope with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany)

5. Assimilation/integration is failing even with the previous, slow immigration, multiculturalism is a failure.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures)
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1061340.html (http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1061340.html) <-- look at the date of this article, warning 10 yrs ago and it's exactly what has happened

Etc, etc.
Basically most warnings except the most radical have come true.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 02, 2016, 12:47:34 PM
Quote
Also, try that in the age of ballistic missiles and nukes and see how it goes.
It works just fine actually. Certainly better than empire building.
Empires always come at the expense of the native countries then end up with the
country falling apart. What has the Pax Americana actually gained for average Americans?
Endless wars and higher taxes? The simple fact is we cant afford our empire anymore.
Quote
So, it only "worked" and was a reality as long as there was no credible threat to US.
In mid thirties it was plentifully clear in U.S. elite that that age is over.
See various fleet/air force programs designed to deal with the new possible threats.

What threat might that be? No power on earth could've been a credible threat to continental US even then.
Right up to the start of WW2 the whole country was solidly pro isolationist it took a president months away
from getting impeached and blatantly trying to provoke both Germany and Japan to get us in that war.
Neither power was even close to a match to the USA.
Quote
That 911 thing is a good argument for intervention.

If it weren't for our Pro Israel policies we wouldn't have enemies in the middle east.
Quote
5. Assimilation/integration is failing even with the previous, slow immigration, multiculturalism is a failure.
Of course its a failure its why empires fail in the first place. Sooner or later the state looses the power to police the disparate peoples and then the
whole thing comes apart.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 02, 2016, 03:31:32 PM
Quote
It works just fine actually.

Cuba, 1962. - the year and place people across the world understood that isolationism cannot possibly work anymore and there's no bringing it back unless you want somebody to carry "the big stick" to your front door and then "speak softly" with you.
And we're in 2016.

Quote
Certainly better than empire building.
Empires always come at the expense of the native countries then end up with the
country falling apart.

U.S. is not an empire.

Quote
What has the Pax Americana actually gained for average Americans?

I explained it already, although it should be plentifully obvious, given some perspective of human history until Pax Americana.

Quote
Endless wars and higher taxes?

Your taxes are low, relative to world, both relative to individual earnings and relative to GDP:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/how-low-are-us-taxes-compared-to-other-countries/267148/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/how-low-are-us-taxes-compared-to-other-countries/267148/)
One of the reasons your taxes are low is because you have what you call "an empire".
For historical precedent of similar proportion see Britain, 19th century.

Quote
The simple fact is we cant afford our empire anymore.

No, it's the other way around.
You can't afford losing your global markets and influence abroad.
Should that happen, an economic collapse of epic proportions would ensue.
To give you an idea why, see U.S. National wealth vs U.S. GDP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_wealth)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal))
As you can see, U.S. national wealth is 4 times China's while U.S. GDP is <2 times China's
Obviously, that ratio difference is not buried underground somewhere in U.S.
Most of it is either invested abroad or is part of global assets of global companies that are based in U.S.

Quote
What threat might that be? No power on earth could've been a credible threat to continental US even then.
Right up to the start of WW2 the whole country was solidly pro isolationist it took a president months away
from getting impeached and blatantly trying to provoke both Germany and Japan to get us in that war.
Neither power was even close to a match to the USA.

Credible threat does not mean "match".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans)
And you seem to be misinformed about U.S. military capabilities in 20s and 30s.
Most of the capability was built starting in late 30s, partly as part of the mentioned war plans and peaked in 44/45.
Until late 30s your fleet was only somewhat bigger than Japan's (see London Naval Treaty and related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Naval_Treaty, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Naval_Treaty,) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States#1920s:_Naval_disarmament (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States#1920s:_Naval_disarmament)), airforce was small and underfunded/partly obsolete and army was virtually non-existant.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/US_military_personnel_and_expenditures.png)

As you can see, military spending of U.S. is also on a long-term declining trend if compared relatively to GDP.

Quote
If it weren't for our Pro Israel policies we wouldn't have enemies in the middle east.

Pro Israel policies are a side-show or decoy.
The story is about oil.
And you are mistaken about enemies.
There are enemies that hate you not because what you did, but who you are.
Hate freedom, equal rights (particularly for women), education, etc.
And radical islamists are not the only ones.

Quote
Of course its a failure its why empires fail in the first place. Sooner or later the state looses the power to police the disparate peoples and then the
whole thing comes apart.

There were no empires mentioned in that quote.
It was about immigration and incompetent politicians.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 06:50:01 PM
Rusty, how's the third party talk coming along after last night?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 07:05:19 PM
I've heard it argued -and I think there's more than a little truth to it- that the US emerged from WWII with something of an 'empire' and has always been uncomfortable with it, refusing to even admit that's what it was.  It's antithetical to the ideas of democracy, having an empire, but what else were US 'possessions' like the Marshall Islands?

For the Romans, something like leadership of NATO would have been the first step towards straight up annexing Western Europe.  -They treated alliances like roach motels -you could ask Rome for help, but you couldn't ask them to leave afterwards- and grew their empire that way as much as by direct violent conquest.

So that American discomfort with empire is definitely a good thing for the rest of the world, at least those interested in running their own countries.  (One of the triumphs of our post-WWII administration of occupied territory was that we ever let them rule themselves again at all.  Thank those democratic ideals for that.)

However, the discomfort could go away - I cannot recommend depending on US support too much; Rome was a 'democracy' (oligarchy, actually, but still a democracy for the ruling class) the first few hundred years after it started expanding.  It is not a coincidence that I bring this up in a time I think American democracy is in a lot of trouble, thanks to our own developing oligarchy of bossmen and their dupes...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
Quote
After Super Tuesday, Bernie Sanders says he’s taking the fight to every state
Liz Goodwin  Senior National Affairs Reporter  March 01, 2016



BURLINGTON, Vt. — Bernie Sanders may be facing tough delegate math against his rival Hillary Clinton, but the progressive candidate told a crowd of his strongest supporters that he would fight for the nomination in every state.

“At the end of tonight, 15 states will have voted. Thirty-five states remain,” Sanders told a Vermont crowd of thousands. “Let me assure you that we are going to take our fight for economic justice, for social justice, for environmental sanity, for a world of peace to every one of those states.”

The Vermont senator assured his supporters that he will still pick up delegates in states he loses on Super Tuesday.

“This is not a general election, it’s not winner-take-all. If you get 52 percent or 48 percent, you end up with roughly the same amount of delegates,” he said.

The senator is right that he is picking up delegates even in states he loses, but Super Tuesday has seriously dented his chances of becoming the Democratic nominee. Though he did better than some expected — winning his home state of Vermont in a landslide, plus Oklahoma, Colorado and Minnesota — Sanders was falling short of making up for Clinton’s very strong showing in the South, where she won six states, and in delegate-rich Massachusetts. (Superdelegates, who are chosen by the party and not allocated based on the popular vote, also overwhelmingly support Clinton.) On this course, Sanders is likely to find himself in a delegate hole he cannot dig out of.

But this pessimism has not reached Vermont, the campaign or the Sanders supporters who contributed $42 million to his campaign last month, outdoing Clinton’s fundraising machine. The hometown crowd gave Sanders a rock star’s reception, cheering for a full minute when he arrived on stage with his wife, Jane. Jerry Greenfield of Ben & Jerry’s ice cream and other campaign surrogates introduced Sanders as the “next president of the United States” to the cheering crowd.

Sanders appears to have the money and the will to go all the way. And he doesn’t have to worry about big-time donors deciding it’s time for him to pull the plug if he can’t catch up with Clinton.

“We think we’re going to have the resources to go all the way,” Sanders’ senior adviser, Tad Devine, said. “In the past, campaigns ended because the bundlers said, ‘We aren’t going to bundle anymore.’ We don’t have any bundlers. The people who are investing in this campaign are doing so not because it’s a smart money calculation, but because they believe in Bernie Sanders.”

Devine said the campaign is looking forward to upcoming races in Kansas, Nebraska, Maine, Louisiana and Michigan. “We’re going to compete and win in as many states as possible,” he said.

Devine dismissed the possibility that Sanders supporters will lose some of their enthusiasm as they see their candidate’s chances dim.

“You know, I think our supporters are enthusiastic about Bernie and his message, not enthusiastic about his delegate totals,” he said.

Sanders has from the beginning been a candidate of ideas, when he entered the race nearly a year ago with almost zero name recognition to take on a candidate most Democrats saw as inevitable. His surprising popularity pushed Clinton to the left on many issues, from the Keystone Pipeline to economic inequality, and has changed the race forever. The money that keeps pouring into this campaign means he can continue to deliver this message, even if he doesn’t have a shot at the nomination.

“What I have said is that this campaign is not just about electing a president, it is about making a political revolution,” Sanders said at his victory rally.

One thing the campaign says won’t happen, no matter the outcome? Sharper attacks on Clinton.

“I’ve worked with Bernie for 20 years. We’ve never run a negative ad, and I predict we never will,” Devine said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/after-super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-says-hes-031241686.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/after-super-tuesday-bernie-sanders-says-hes-031241686.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
About free trade-

A rising tide lifts all boats.  I get it; I believe it.

HowEVER - I already told the story in this thread of temping in a textile mill the day the management called all the full-time employees to a meeting to have the gall to ask them to vote for NAFTA-friendly candidates, and the woman who rhetorically said to me "Sure, I'll vote to send my job to Mexico."  Textiles (and furniture, somewhat) were the basis of this region's economy.

That mill is closed, now, -most mills around here are- and I wonder what that woman is doing to make ends meet since her job went to Mexico.

I've worked -briefly, thank god- in a lot of factories, and I've been migrant labor for several years.  You are welcome to guess what radicalized me on labor issues.  (Protip: me saying the Bosses want to make us all slaves may have been based on having been treated like one.  A lot.)

The Bossmen Love Free Trade - and it's a lot more complicated than that rising tide argument to people and regions out of work while the economy adjusts.  I don't know what the best answer is, but it isn't simple.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 08:14:33 PM
I'm seeing that I'm far from the only one really put out with Mr. Christie for that stupid endorsement.  He's catching some serious, SERIOUS bounce-back.

There is not enough justice in the world, but it's not fallen to zero quite yet.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 02, 2016, 09:09:18 PM
I'm seeing that I'm far from the only one really put out with Mr. Christie for that stupid endorsement.  He's catching some serious, SERIOUS bounce-back.

There is not enough justice in the world, but it's not fallen to zero quite yet.

I gotta go do stuff. I think Paul Ryan, Cruz, and Rubio have all gone on record saying they'd support the nominee.

I'm keeping a list of [Sleezebag] endorsers...
Palin
Coulter
Christie
Limbaugh and Hannity, too, no matter how much they try to finesse it.
Ben Carson
Ted Nugent
Lou Dobbs
Pat Buchanan
Phyllis Schlafly
Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Jerry Falwell Jr.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 02, 2016, 09:56:37 PM
Quote
I've worked -briefly, thank god- in a lot of factories, and I've been migrant labor for several years.  You are welcome to guess what radicalized me on labor issues.  (Protip: me saying the Bosses want to make us all slaves may have been based on having been treated like one.  A lot.)

The Bossmen Love Free Trade - and it's a lot more complicated than that rising tide argument to people and regions out of work while the economy adjusts.  I don't know what the best answer is, but it isn't simple.
The answer is simple close the borders and deport the illegals, go after the employers who employ them, and then reinstitute tariffs.
Then watch the economy fix itself.

Quote
Quote
U.S. is not an empire.
Yes it is. Or is American imperialism just my imagination.
Your taxes are low, relative to world, both relative to individual earnings and relative to GDP:

Cough cough lol. We pay more in taxes than a medieval peasant did. They they were expected to give a third of what they produce .
We pay about three quarters of our income. We have an economy based on looting the middle class and accounting fraud how long do you think that will last?
Quote
There were no empires mentioned in that quote.
Well there is Rome and  Parthia for a start. The Ottoman empire and the Soviet union (just take a look at Yugoslavia).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 10:13:38 PM
I agree that that answer is very simple.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 02, 2016, 10:18:42 PM
Quote
I agree that that answer is very simple.
Please don't insult me. At least try to follow your own forum rules.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 02, 2016, 10:39:30 PM
About free trade-

A rising tide lifts all boats.  I get it; I believe it.

HowEVER - I already told the story in this thread of temping in a textile mill the day the management called all the full-time employees to a meeting to have the gall to ask them to vote for NAFTA-friendly candidates, and the woman who rhetorically said to me "Sure, I'll vote to send my job to Mexico."  Textiles (and furniture, somewhat) were the basis of this region's economy.

That mill is closed, now, -most mills around here are- and I wonder what that woman is doing to make ends meet since her job went to Mexico.

I've worked -briefly, thank god- in a lot of factories, and I've been migrant labor for several years.  You are welcome to guess what radicalized me on labor issues.  (Protip: me saying the Bosses want to make us all slaves may have been based on having been treated like one.  A lot.)

The Bossmen Love Free Trade - and it's a lot more complicated than that rising tide argument to people and regions out of work while the economy adjusts.  I don't know what the best answer is, but it isn't simple.

My 10 years working in a Fram/Bendix/Autolite manufacturing plant:

Orientation:  Working for FRAM.  Paraphrased:  Plant's been in business as long as it has because we make absolutely everything in house, on our own, no outsourcing, just buy raw materials.  This is a proven method how American products should be made, you should be proud of your work here. 

2 years later, Allied Signal buys FRAM: 
We need to improve our throughput and numbers with this Japanese management philosophy.  Let's shut down and put everyone through training and come up with these projects to improve our system (that's been working for umpteen years). 

Uno's on the Panel Air Filter line, sees "improvement" after "improvement" fail, sees writing on the wall, moves to Round Air filter line. 
3rd year:  Panel Air Filter line is 50% automated, but pieces per hour have been cut in half, third shift and regular overtime work ensues. 

Uno put in charge of Round Air Filter Packaging line, follows older philosophy and required "improvements" focus on team building and training, hand pick fantastic personnel (and demonized by many temps in the process).  Uno's shift breaks all FRAM records of pieces per hour on every model of filter, removing previous automation items that had tendency to fail. 

2 years later (now 5 years into Uno's employ) Honeywell buys Allied Signal.  Uno moves to weekend shift in shipping department.

"We need to follow the WalMart Business Model.  Just in time ordering.  Lower costs. Oh, and all managers need a degree"

All managers fired.  College kids who haven't seen a production line brought in. 

Outsourcing of items previously built in house begins. 
2 years later, shipping department is outsourced.  Uno one of only 3 employees retained to ship the manufactured items to new shipping warehouse. 

Outsourcing continues over 3 years.  Panel line closed and moved to Mexico becoming unable to keep up with production demands. 

Manager told to ask my opinion on a proposed move of the Round Air Packaging to former Panel Air location to "streamline" the round air filter production.  "Because right now, the filters have a 20 minute conveyor belt ride to the packaging station.  This is wasted time, if we cut the cycle time to make one filter by those 20 minutes it will improve efficiency."

Uno claims it's the dumbest thing he's ever heard.  Pieces per hour count, not how long it takes one from start to end.  Plus, the 20 minute ride is essential to cool the filters for the packing machines to work. 

Uno told he will never move up in company due to bad attitude. 

1 year later, Round air line scrap costs ballooned to be untenable after move, line shut down and moved to mexico. 

Outsourcing and just in time ordering results in regular shutdowns as the oil filter lines wait for parts.  Orders are beginning to fall behind.  Uno sees writing on wall and flees for greener pastures. 

Entire plant shut down 3 years later, moved to Mexico. 



Uno's opinion:

Politics would not have saved absolutely boneheaded managerial decisions. 

TQL
TPM
5S
Hoshin Rollout
Greenbelt/Blackbelt
Just in Time
(I know there's more, but just off the top of my head)

These "Improvement" philosophies are just as likely to create a worse problem than what they tried to solve.  Where the hell is common sense in todays management?  You don't need to strictly adhere to 5S to know a place needs to be organized.  Just in Time ordering?  Really?  There's a lot to say about having stock on hand.  I could go on quite a while. 

The jobs to Mexico is not as simple as changing politics.  Corporations need to pull their heads out of their collective asses as well. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 10:56:01 PM
You can't cure stupid, Uno; you can't cure stupid.  Or evil...


Quote
I agree that that answer is very simple.

Please don't insult me. At least try to follow your own forum rules.
;clenchedteeth  You make it insanely difficult, directly contradicting me and completely ignoring the main thrust of what you quoted.

Point acknowledged, though.



Here's the election thread from the last time around - I just re-read the lot and found it more than worth it; we kick around many of the sad, sad trends that still vex us all.  And I mentioned the Pig as a waste of human space twice, years before this crap and as a social trend, not a political one - because trash stinks.  Much worthy reading, and I put a number of things better than I have lately.
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2579.msg12250#msg12250 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2579.msg12250#msg12250)

Adds some context to much stuff we've been kicking around recently and highly recommended.  I miss cryopyre.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 11:17:36 PM
Question for the group, especially Rusty, but anyone a little wonky about electoral strategy and stuff-

At this point, is Kasich running for a plank in the party platform at the convention, or running for Vice President?  I would think not running for President next time - definitely no longer this time...

(I'm pretty sure Sanders was running for that first option in the first place, so no reason to stop now after he's won beyond all expectations.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 02, 2016, 11:37:04 PM
Okay, this is funny.  I googled Kasich while writing the last post because that name always feels spelled wrong.  When I went back to the tab a few minutes later, this story was on the first page of hits.



Quote
Kasich: 'Zero chance’ I’m someone’s vice president
The Hill
By Mark Hensch  March 01, 2016, 03:58 pm



Republican presidential candidate John Kasich insisted Tuesday he would not consider running for the vice presidency.

“Zero chance, just stop there, zero chance,” he told Fox Business Network’s “Varney & Co.,” specifically referencing Donald [Sleezebag]

“I have no interest,” Kasich added. "I’m going to be governor of Ohio. There is zero chance I will be anybody’s vice presidential candidate — period, end of story.”

The Ohio governor dismissed speculation that a poor showing on Super Tuesday would doom his run, saying he is focusing on winning his home state on March 15.

“I don’t know how much you know about American football, but a lot of things get decided in the fourth quarter, not the first quarter,” he told host Stuart Varney, who is British.

“I’m going to win Ohio, and then as soon as I win Ohio, everybody in this 24/7 news cycle will turn around and say, ‘Let’s talk about John Kasich,' ” he added. "I mean, that’s just the way it works."

Kasich said political newcomers like [Sleezebag] won't solve the nation's problems.

“We have a lot of voters who are just picking outsiders because they think the system doesn’t work,” he said. "When they pick outsiders and they don’t fix the system, then they get [angrier] and they pick more outsiders.

“The only way to stop it is to get the attention of these folks and explain to them that if you’re a reformer, and you really do know how to get this done, and you really have produced in the past, and you have a vision for the future, that’s how I believe you peel those voters away.”

Kasich ranks fifth in the Republican field heading into Super Tuesday, according to a RealClearPolitics average of national polls.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/271348-kasich-zero-chance-im-someones-vice-president (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/271348-kasich-zero-chance-im-someones-vice-president)



I'll take his word for it, but running for next time or a party plank is hardly something it would be a good idea to admit...  If he really thinks winning his home state will give him a chance, well, I hope he's right and I'm wrong - getting a good president is more important than beating the Republicans, and he's the only one on that side I think has a chance of being good.

(Fifth behind who?)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 12:10:13 AM
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12814058_10205710926719929_3890984182897168246_n.jpg?oh=ea6dc90e96602ce361b54c2df72cef75&oe=57642D39)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 12:27:31 AM
Cough cough lol.
Speaking of manners, this is rude and makes you look unsophisticated.  No more sentences ending in "lol" - and any further smilie use that can be taken as gloating is right out, too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 03, 2016, 12:57:14 AM
You can't cure stupid, Uno; you can't cure stupid.  Or evil...



Wasn't just that company, but I have NDRs in place for other examples I could list.  Corporations are SERIOUSLY corrupt/misguided/stupid these days. 

Don't get me started on government procurement either.  If there is any hope I have with a potential Trumpident, it's that [Sleezebag] sees that and does something.  Obama TRIED, but ultimately failed as it took all of 3 months for new loopholes to be found in his reform. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 01:28:07 AM
You can't cure bureaucracy, Uno.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 03, 2016, 01:48:07 AM
Rusty, how's the third party talk coming along after last night?

I'm home again, but busy with dinner.
To pick up again, and summarize-

 Speaker Paul Ryan, Cruz and Rubio have all stated they'd support the eventual nominee of the Republican Party.

I think Carson suspended his campaign, because he couldn't see a way forward. Cruz is calling for the others to get out and make room for him. Romney is going to make a speech against [Sleezebag]. There is a lot of fear and frustration in the House and Senate about running with [Sleezebag] atop the ticket. The same with governors. In a national election, [Sleezebag] has negatives of about 70% with minorities, college educated, and millennials. He's not doing so well with women, either. Those are growing slices of the demographic pie.

[Sleezebag] himself, asks why the "Establishment" can't see that he's bringing millions of people into the party. After all, he promised not to run as a 3rd party, so why can't the Republicans do the same?
Well, the answer to that is that [Sleezebag] is alienating a lot of people nationally, too, not just within the Republican party, and will be a Boogey Man/ recruiting tool for the Democratic party.

A Romney spokesman says Romney himself will not run for president.  Other "establishment " voices say that the broad field is the best way to slow [Sleezebag] down and deny him enough delegates for a first ballot victory. Strong-arming others to get out of the race will only let [Sleezebag] win faster.
 
Cruz doesn't have very many evangelical strongholds left on the primary list.

 Rubio's support is national, but lacks the depth. So it's not as if either of them can say, if we just hang on until state X, things are gonna change  we'll win. For that matter, Rubio is trailing [Sleezebag] in his home state of Florida by 20%. A candidate that can't deliver hi home state looks pretty lame. George McGovern lame. Then it becomes hard to justify continued presence in the race. [Sleezebag] is mad at Rubio for roughing him up in the debate and on the trail, and has vowed to "hit Florida hard", Rubio knows this and is pulling out all of the stops.

 Kasich should win his home state of Ohio, it's a big state and it's winner take all delegates. He should do as well in some of the Great Lakes states as he did in New England, second behind [Sleezebag]. Maybe better, as more people pay attention the closer their primary gets. As far as I know, Kasich has been running fifth by about half a percent if you look at rolling national opinion poll averages as opposed to primary results. He's 4th in delegate counts.  He does better in the north than the south, I suspect his Catholicism factors into that. Where he shines is as a general election candidate. If he flat out refuses to be vice-president, I guess he's thinking he'd be a non-controversial convention consensus candidate.

Or, maybe he's just setting the stage so that he doesn't have to say no to the nominee if it's [Sleezebag] or Cruz. Lyndon Johnson was infuriated when Kennedy asked him to be his running mate. It was a loss of power. There was just no way to refuse gracefully.

One analyst was comparing this to 1964, when Goldwater was threatening to win the nomination, and the establishment feared he would get them slaughtered in the general election. Pennsylvania's ( then the 3rd largest state by population ) Republican governor even jumped in the race to take delegates away from Goldwater.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 01:52:11 AM
You left out Ben Stein saying he'd vote for a democrat for the first time in his life, but good overview; thanks.



Written November 09, 2012, 12:29:57 AM, three days after the last presidential election, and as much as I've begun to try to soften my worst rhetorical edges since, needs to be said again now.

For my international friends, let me explain that this election was between two VERY weak candidates.  There’s been a lot of lesser of two evils elections during the near 30 years of my political life, but this is absolutely the worst at the presidential  level I’ve ever witnessed.

Bakrama has been a mediocre president.  Period.  Gitmo is still open, and the economy is still in the toilet.  He has failed in the area of his greatest potential, as an inspirational leader.  His healthcare reform is lame -insurance is NOT the answer- and he’s continued to try to be conciliatory in the face of the least sanely reasonable House of Representatives in modern times -they’ve appealed Obamacare 32 times, knowing for sure it wouldn‘t get past the Senate after the first time; is that sane?- for years after it was clear that trying to meet them in the middle didn’t work and never would. 

As Cry and I discussed earlier in the thread, the Socialist the right accuses him of being is just NOT what he is, when some of us would have LIKED a touch of socialism to remedy the ridiculous statist (that’s a polite term for fascist) excesses of the Bush occupation.  At the time that we needed a bold new direction following a strong and bold LEADER, his “Change you can believe in” turned out to be “Not one tenth as bad as the last guy”, which just. isn’t. good. enough.  Something about the man inspired people’s imagination.  The right has imagined him some evil Kenyan communist muslim, while the left has been disappointed he turned out not to be the progressive messiah they thought he would be, and many of them have been angry about it for over three years.

We needed a leader.  A leader who persuaded the American people of what is so plain to the rest of the world - that the Bush/Cheney way was wrong, both morally and practically, and not in our national interests.  He turns out not to be that leader.


Mitt Romney is a good man; maybe a VERY good man.  I believe that.  I don’t think he’s QUITE presidential caliber, but he might have risen to the challenge.  His problem?  To begin with, like Bakrama four years ago, he simply didn’t have enough experience as a public servant holding office to be qualified for the presidency.  A term as Governor of a populous state like Massachusetts might qualify if he’d held lower offices and worked his way up, but that and a couple of failed runs for national office is insufficient.  And to my shame, absolutely no one ever talked about this, even less than they did about Bakrama before him.  This is a country with many very stupid people in it, and stupid ideas get more traction than they should, while the smart-but-hard-to-explain ones are often unheard - TV has that effect.

The list of his problems goes on; he’s a Mormon, which is offensive to the Christians of the Republicans’ political base.  Despite what he’s said all year, he’s actually something of a liberal by Republican standards - that goes over poorly with the small-government conservatives and the social (moral) conservatives alike. 

The biggest single problem ANY Republican candidate for President faces, not just Romney, (McCain had horrible trouble with this, too, which was much of his undoing) is that the Republican Party is a deeply schizophrenic organization.  The social conservatives (those church people you Euros think so little of, and you’re right when it comes to politics) and the small-government (or what I call political) conservatives have no business being in the same party.  They mostly all agree about the low taxes and balanced budgets (although the Republicans in office are at least as bad about balanced budgets in practice - Clinton, a Democrat, submitted balanced budgets to Congress; something no Republican president in my 47 years has done) and, in theory, about small government.  And most of the political conservatives are least sympathetic to the moral stances of the social conservatives.   But those social conservatives (think Tea Party, which amusingly enough, began as a libertarian political conservative movement and than got taken over hijacked by the social conservative/idiots) always support laws regulating moral issues, always want greater powers for the police, support trade sanctions on countries they don’t like, want more guards on the Mexican border (Canadians being, apparently, white enough to not matter) and LOVED the Bush/Cheney gang while they waged war on an irrelevant-to-9/11 nation and sent American citizens to camps.  THIS is the measure of devotion to small government on the part of the statist social conservatives, which is deeply offensive to any intelligent political conservative who’s thought about it.  It’s why Ron Paul, hands-down one of the most conservative members of Congress fought the Bush gang tooth and nail.  He actually loves America and believes in the US constitution - an attitude out of style on the right, though the right mostly doesn’t realize it.

So no candidate can possibly please both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin.  All candidates for major office have that problem, but the last two Republican presidential nominees have been ruined by it.  Ruined.  Romney had to pretend to be far more conservative than he is, which hurt him horribly.  Talk on the right in the last two days indicates some thinkers on the right are beginning to realize this, but far more of the talk is about appealing to latinos - a vein pursuit, as the wealth and status quo party will NEVER have as much appeal to poor people.

Now, the part that I think will shock anyone who’s seen me talk politics online: I am a social conservative.

I grew up Southern Baptist.  That was before the denomination turned into virtually a wing of the Republican Party in the 80’s (which is a bigger reason than my later crisis of faith that you won’t catch me in a Southern Baptist church - that, and I can’t stand being around people wearing too much perfume) but it nonetheless strongly informs my world view.  I grew up around these people.  I understand them and speak their language, and still share most of their personal values.  I’m a prude, folks, just like them.

Where we part ways is in theology (Jesus said “"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's", which I think applies to a LOT more than paying your taxes) and in interpretation.  Jesus said “Go and sin no more” to the adulteress he rescued, but he also said a lot more things like “Feed my sheep” and the thing about turning the other cheek.  I don’t think he’d like the wealth-and-selfishness party one whit more than the do-as-thou-wilt-as-long-as-no-one-gets-hurt party, if that.  In fact, I think he’d be on the steps of the temple railing against the modern Pharisees a lot harder than the modern Sadducees.  Just like in the old days.

I just think personal morality has no place in government; it is a matter for preaching and persuasion, and anyone who doesn’t see that misunderstood their Bible, or hasn’t thought it out.

And I furthermore think that the political conservatives are right a good half the time.  Government is a fat, stupid, inefficient thing, ravenous for your money, your time and dignity, and your freedom.  It cares about its rules more than it does about people.

Every time I have to deal with the medical profession, it is proven over and over.  Likewise for dealing with the DMV.

My problem with the social conservatives is that they are just. plain. wrong. politically, (and stupid) even though I’m technically one of them.  My problem with the political conservative is that they are heartless and selfish, and run with a bunch of jerks.  My problem with the right as a whole?  Well-

Jesse Helms’ big money and nasty attacks style - Ronald Regan’s simple (stupid) answers to complex questions and nasty attacks style.  It is religiously embraced by the right these days, and I, not all that liberal-looking outside labor issues in any decent light, have been offended and driven away and polarized by the hateful behavior, lies and fantasies of the right.  Do not dare, EVER, insinuate that I don’t love America, the US Constitution and most importantly of all freedom, justice and fairness.  -Also?  Not a big fan of Ted Kennedy over here, and sick of having him thrown up in my face 25 years ago.  I never voted for the man, and that’s just rude, and hurts your cause.

This has gotten worse, and worse, and worse -and worse- my entire political life.  (Tell me that you’ve seen as many “WHY THE RIGHT HATES AMERICA” thread and comment titles online as the ubiquitous “WHY LIBERALS HATE AMERICA” (or variations thereof) and I’ll conclude that you haven’t browsed very widely at all, or are a liar.  In either case, I won’t waste my time discussing the issues with you, because I don’t have time to talk politics with people who are stupid about politics.  Be wrong and able to defend it intelligently enough, and you’re suddenly one of my favorite people - it’s a crucial difference.)

Yeah so, my big problem with those Republican jokers?  They’re rude.  They’re hateful.  They’re selfish.  They’re loud and obnoxious liars.  They went fascist in 2001.  They haven’t turned their backs on the fascism since.  The country and the entire world deserves an apology for the monkey and his handler and all the terrible things they did. 

I deserve an apology for all the names I’ve been called for 29 years, and all the insinuations against my character, for choosing the lesser evil and registering Democratic, and for voting for the lesser evil to the best of my discernment since.

---

And so anyway, that’s what I think just happened Tuesday; more people voted against Romney than voted against Obama.  Not that many voted FOR either.

All statements contained herein are to the best of my knowledge and considered opinion true and factual.  Selah amen.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on March 03, 2016, 02:29:38 AM
I must state that in many cases the majority winners after Super Tuesday often achieve the party nominations. The majority winnings of Hillary Clinton and Donald [Sleezebag] leave me with an unsettling feeling for different reasons. The fact that Hillary has shown herself willing to lie about circumstances that constitute a felony for most other people continues to cloud her reputation with me. The aspects of Donald [Sleezebag] that bother me involves the fact that he remains unwilling to unite people with actual solutions rather resort towards personal attacks.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 02:37:03 AM
As I said to my Tennessee Republican friend on Skype last night:

[3/1/2016 9:32:11 PM] bustersuncle: Irrational.  Even if you buy into the lowbrow racist [poop] he pushes -probably insincerly- HE's not the guy.  They could have gotten SOME of the same -even in rude style- much better thought out by a much better man, supporting Christie...
[3/1/2016 9:33:22 PM] bustersuncle: [The Pig]'s just another trashy celebrity who'd do or say any vile thing for the attention.  He's scum - even if you want the racist police state, he's not the right guy.
[3/1/2016 9:34:23 PM] bustersuncle: He's the Lindsey Lohan of ugly old men.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 03, 2016, 03:03:44 AM
Well my take on it is that Obama turned out the black vote as never before. They were voting FOR something.

I was sure that in the privacy of the voting booth, racists like my brother-in-law, or uncle, etc. and  these [Sleezebag] supporters would have struck Obama down. But they failed. Twice. There was an even  higher black turnout for Obama's re-election.
Lesson learned: never say never.

So I'm not thinking [Sleezebag] will never be the nominee.

After reading that linked article in the Atlantic about American taxation ranked about 53rd among developed countries, at least until 2020 when Obamacare expenses will drive that up, I read an article about The Leader.  I'll cut and paste the whole thing.

-can-beat-hillary-clinton/471879/]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/of-course-donald-[Sleezebag]-can-beat-hillary-clinton/471879/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/of-course-donald-[Sleezebag)

How Donald [Sleezebag] Can Beat Hillary Clinton
by Derek Thompson

He spent years as a moderate. He spent years as a nationalist. Why can’t he spend six months being a moderate nationalist?

Donald [Sleezebag] and Hillary Clinton’s Super Tuesdays put them on a collision course this fall. Betting markets make Clinton the strong favorite, given [Sleezebag]’s high unfavorables, his incendiary comments about minorities, and the fact that members of his own party seem eager to disavow him. But [Sleezebag]’s strengths and grand strategy make him considerably more dangerous in a general election than people seem to think.

There are two pieces of conventional wisdom about Donald [Sleezebag] that don't fit comfortably together. On the one hand, people seem to think [Sleezebag]’s appeal transcends the issues and that he doesn’t really care about policy. On the other hand, he’s considered unelectable because of his policies, like building a Mexican wall and banning Muslim immigrants.

But here’s the problem: If [Sleezebag] doesn’t care about policy and his appeal truly transcends issues, what’s stopping him from becoming a starkly different person in the general election, the same way he's morphed, with convenient timing, from a moderate businessman—supportive of Canadian health care, a friend of Democrats, an admirer of Hillary Clinton—to a nationalist demagogue?

[Sleezebag]’s most famous skill is self-promotion through bloviation. But his most underrated skill is he is a terrific panderer. He will say anything he thinks people want to hear, but he'll say it in a way that makes his pandering look like an act of courage. The ingenious subtext of much of his messaging is: “Nobody wants to hear this hard truth, but here it is: you’re right!” As a businessman, he had no problem hiring illegal immigrants. But when he sniffed out illegal immigration as a hot-button topic, he promised mass deportations, the most beautiful wall in the Western Hemisphere, and a punitive financing scheme: Mexico pays!  He trashed former klansman David Duke years ago. But when he suspected that some voters in Super Tuesday states might be sympathetic to white supremacy, he scolded CNN’s Jake Tapper for asking him to disavow somebody he’d never met.

[Sleezebag] doesn’t need to be accurate, because he’s “authentic.”

In all 15 states that have voted in the GOP primary, [Sleezebag]’s supporters have named the same quality as most important in a president: Somebody who “tells it like it is.” Does it matter that Politifact determined that 76 percent of [Sleezebag]'s statements were errors, inaccuracies, or absurd lies? No way. Somebody who “tells it like it is” doesn’t have to “get the facts right.” [Sleezebag] doesn’t need to be accurate, because he’s authentic. And yes, there is a difference. The difference between accuracy and authenticity is the difference between a British passport and a British accent. People with the former tend to have the latter, but the first is concrete and falsifiable, and the second is easily faked.

[Sleezebag] will exploit this. He will fake it until he absolutely cannot make it. He’ll fib about policy, because he doesn’t care, and maybe voters don’t either. He won’t adhere too closely to what he’s already said, because he doesn’t care, and maybe voters don’t either. (What about that Muslim database? “Well, I don’t want to talk about it much now, I’m considering all options.”) He’ll borrow shamelessly from Bernie Sanders and Barack Obama—the two candidates who gave Hillary fits—by repeatedly slamming the establishment, talking about middle class pain and anger, and promising to be a uniquely unifying force in American politics. Consider the red-and-blue state unity messages in Chris Christie’s introduction speech last night: “Donald [Sleezebag] has won Georgia and Massachusetts… Tonight is the beginning of Donald [Sleezebag] bringing the Republican Party together ... Tonight is the beginning of Donald [Sleezebag] bringing the people of our nation together to help America win again.”

Overall, [Sleezebag] will continue to alight to the majority’s latent fears and frustrations and confidently promise magical solutions. It’s not hard to imagine him sounding like an palatable moderate Republican:

Take, for example, what he might say on income inequality: The middle class has been creamed in this country. Creamed. Hillary wants to raise taxes. She might even want to raise taxes on the middle class, you never know with Democrats. But I want a big, fat, beautiful tax cut for the middle class. It will make every American family richer. It will create jobs. We’ll win and win. It will be beautiful.

A tax cut? How would he pay for that without slashing spending on defense, Social Security, or Medicare? We’ll cut so much. There is so much waste and fraud. We’ll cut and cut. You’ll get sick of cutting.

And he may be surprisingly quick to answer questions about Black Lives Matter and criminal-justice reform: We imprison so many men in this country. It’s a disgrace. When I’m president we’re going to be a tough country. But a fair country. Because that’s who I am. It’s who I’ve always been. I’m a tough, fair guy. Hillary can’t do this. Her husband passed a criminal-justice law that even she considers a disgrace. Just ask her. A total disgrace.

[Sleezebag] is also positioned to offer a devastating critique of Hillary Clinton—that she never wins: She tried to pass health care reform. Biggest disaster I ever saw in Washington. Biggest I ever saw. And that’s saying a lot. She wanted us to go into Iraq and then into Libya. Look at that mess. Worst decision in foreign policy history. Worst. NAFTA, prisons, welfare reform. You know that story about King Midas? Where he touches something and it turns to gold? Hillary’s the opposite. Everything she touches blows up. She’s a disaster.

Is it really so hard to imagine [Sleezebag] peddling a populist message that keeps the Great Wall of America (he can’t disavow that wall), dials down on the dog-whistle rhetoric toward Hispanics and Muslims, and goes hard at the economic and cultural insecurity of the middle class by promising them a gorgeous new fleet of protectionist trade deals, a big beautiful tax cut, and all the social spending they’ve come to love? Pay Less, Keep More, Win, Win, Win. It will be a incredible six months of populist pandering. And what’s worse: If it produces results and he rises in the polls, the political media will paint [Sleezebag] as a rapidly maturing centrist.

So, it is time for the to-be-sure paragraph. To be sure: Donald [Sleezebag] faces massive impediments, many of which he put up himself. He’s spent the last nine months doing his best to alienate every minority group in an electorate that is more diverse than ever. He has a history of radically hypocritical statements. His business record is a massive, beautiful, terrific Jenga tower. He is also getting beat steadily and mightily by Clinton in early head-to-head polls. Although it’s reasonable to think the gap could close in a general election campaign, you have to begin to wonder how many Americans haven’t made up their mind about this guy, already, since [Sleezebag] is a historically overexposed political product. An intended voter saying, “I’m still making my mind up about Donald [Sleezebag]” in April 2016 is like a fully grown adult saying, “I’m still deciding if I like ice cream.” You kinda do or you don’t, by now.

Hillary Clinton is the clear favorite in November. But if you think Donald [Sleezebag]’s past positions will make it hard for him to win a general election, recall that Donald [Sleezebag] does not care about his past positions. He cares about winning. He’s going to spend the next few weeks figuring out what he needs to say to win, and when he thinks he’s found those things, he's going to say them, over and over, with shameless disregard for consistency, accuracy, or morality. Factuality will be sacrificed, over and over, on the altar of authenticity. He won’t tell “the truth.” He will tell “it like it is."

Pragmatists like to seek solace in the quote, “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” The quote is falsely attributed to Lincoln (fooling people is easy, it turns out, if you just repeat the fib emphatically enough), yet I wouldn’t be surprised if the Clinton campaign used the line, to contrast the Republican forefather’s virtue with [Sleezebag]’s chintzy salesmanship.

The thing about majoritarian government, though, is that nobody has to fool everybody all the time. Donald [Sleezebag]’s objective couldn’t be clearer. He only has to fool half the people once.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 03:11:37 AM
See, and I thought Reagan was a bill of goods selling a bill of goods to the gullable...

Google Bill Maher and the Pig together to find a video of the Scumbag cussing in public during campaign speeches.  I was impressed, even given my low opinion of the Huckster going in.

This is going to turn out the voting-against vote like never before.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders: In Defense of Hillary
Post by: Valjiir1 on March 03, 2016, 04:20:44 PM
The biggest, most long lasting meme regarding Hillary Clinton is the non-existent email scandal.  There is only one actual fact in this entire, years-long smear campaign, and that is that Secretary Clinton did use a personal email server for correspondence regarding Secretary of State business.  She has herself admitted this was a stupid mistake and has apologized for her judgment in this.  And that's all there is to it.  She can, in my view, be forgiven this poor judgment for two very important reasons. One, both Madeline Albright and Colin Powell used personal accounts for State Department business when each was Secretary of State.  Of course, the internet hadn't exploded into its current gargantuan form during their terms, and it's never enough of an explanation to say "well, other people did it," but the current hysteria over the fact of Secretary Clinton's use of personal email could lead one to believe it's never been done before.  It has.  It is true there were guidelines passed AFTER Secretary Clinton set up and used this private server prohibiting the use of such servers, but she cannot and should not be blamed for not being able to see the future, nor for not complying with a law that did not, at the time, exist.
 
Two, there was never ANY classified material contained in the emails exchanged via Secretary Clinton's personal account.  I can already hear the shouting, and see the fingers pointing to various news reports contending the opposite.  However, a closer perusal of those reports reveal something very interesting.  The State Department is currently reviewing all those emails as requested by the Judiciary Committee - a request with which Secretary Clinton has completely and transparently cooperated.  She has provided access to her server and emails - it is the State Department which is releasing them in small bunches as they review them.  The thing is, DURING THAT REVIEW PROCESS, the State Department has seen fit to re-classify some of the emails as "confidential" (the lowest classification of security) AFTER THE FACT.  That is, at the time the emails were sent or received, they were NOT classified in any way.  Why is the State Department reclassifying them?  I don't know for certain, and they aren't saying, but I can make a reasonable assumption that the emails referred to things which have, since the time they were sent, become sensitive security issues.
 
And that's it.  There have been no indictments of any kind, and the news that Secretary Clinton's top aide has been given immunity is just another way to smear without proof.  I'm reminded of a West Wing episode, when President Bartlet is being investigated for lying about his MS during his presidential campaign.  His aide, Charlie Young, is being advised by many of the staff members to plead the Fifth when he is questioned about what he knew and when he knew it.  Charlie has done nothing wrong, but out of a sense of loyalty to President Bartlet, he is in a quandary.  Bartlet takes him aside and tells him if he lies, or omits or refuses to answer questions in the name of protecting him (Bartlet), they are done.  Therefore, I think it is entirely possible that this aide pled the Fifth out of a sense of loyalty, because, like Charlie, he did nothing wrong.  Of course, the analogy breaks down because Bartlet DID lie, and there's no evidence that Secretary Clinton did anything wrong, but I hope you see my point.  The fact that someone pleads the Fifth is no proof of anything, despite courtroom dramas that would lead one to believe otherwise.
 
 Of course, if this aide DOES make damning accusations that prove to be true, I'll take it all back. Accusations, after all, are not in and of themselves proof of anything other than someone is making accusations. But I'm not worried. ;)   


Hillary Clinton is an experienced, capable defender of progressive issues,  She knows how to compromise, an art which the Senate and House of Representatives need to remember.  While I have nothing but admiration for Senator Bernie Sanders, and do, in fact, support many of his positions, I cannot see him being able to make any headway at all with Congress toward actually getting his agenda enacted.  I believe Secretary Clinton can and will.  I know some have attempted to tar her with her husband's more moderate agenda when he was president, but I think it is important to note that twenty-five years ago things is this country were very different - and that both President and Secretary Clinton have progressed with the times.  People are allowed to do that.  In fact, I applaud those who do.  The ability to change one's views in accordance with changing circumstances is NOT, in my view, a cardinal sin.  To be sure, there are core principles which each person should and must have, but those should not consist of absolutely everything one thinks or believes.  In politics, the willingness to compromise is a virtue.
 
Hillary Clinton has the knowledge, the gumption, and the experience to continue the journey of Theodore Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, RFK, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.  Bill Clinton said "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow." Barack Obama said "Change We Can Believe In.'"  So for Hillary, I say, "Don't Stop Believing."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 04:42:04 PM
Thank you Cher.  We've been really hard on HRC in this thread, and it's good to hear a dissenting POV.

(I didn't think that scandal season of The West Wing was very good, BTW - they should have had the guts to have Bartlet guilty of something a little more interesting/juicier.  It was a bit of a failure to commit.)

I don't remember what you were wearing for an avatar before, but I'll hook you up if you have any request.  -Or if you recall, a re-upload will fix it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 05:29:59 PM
I see that Miley Cyrus has called the Jerk a nightmare and implied she'll leave the country if he's elected.

So bad news for the anti-Scumbag movement...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 03, 2016, 05:51:43 PM
I'm swiftly approaching Hillary as the "better the evil you know" candidate.  There's no one in the Republican party left standing with a reasonable shot that appeal to me. 

Which means my vote wouldn't count for much since this state will always be red. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 05:59:41 PM
I'll note that I've approved of her performance in the executive branch - I just don't like her as a candidate, or her collaboration as a Senator.  As I've said before, when we get stuck with her as President -this has always been her race to lose- she'll probably do a good job, if you can stand the shouting of the full-time Clinton-haters...

I'd really prefer not to endure that last...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 06:03:44 PM
Quote
Mitt Romney tells Donald [Sleezebag] voters they’re ‘suckers’
By Olivier Knox  1 hour ago



Donald [Sleezebag] has run an unapologetically coarse, give-the-elites-the-finger presidential campaign, ruthlessly mocking his rivals, attacking Latinos and Muslims, trampling long-held conservative ideas, and bluntly dismissing the Republican establishment. The tinsel-haired showman has promised delighted supporters that he will take on the politicians who have betrayed them and lead Americans to victory over the global forces that have crushed their hopes of living the American Dream.


On Thursday, twice-failed presidential candidate Mitt Romney — the living, breathing, immaculately coiffed human embodiment of the same Republican establishment that [Sleezebag] publicly reviles and of the economic currents that he exploits but claims to despise – tried to convince the reality star’s supporters that they are “suckers” being taken in by a dangerous con man.

“Donald [Sleezebag] is a phony, a fraud,” the millionaire investor told a friendly audience at the  Hinckley Institute of Politics in Salt Lake City  . “He’s playing the American people for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.”

Romney, who was referring to the red baseball caps bearing [Sleezebag]’s “Make America Great Again” slogan, did not endorse any individual Republican candidate for president in 2016 and sharply attacked Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton as unfit for office. The result was a speech that the former Massachusetts governor might have given had he run.

It was a litany of attacks, personal and policy-based, reaching as far back as the failure of vanity projects like [Sleezebag] Vodka and as close as [Sleezebag]’s ugly tangle with Fox News Channel’s Megyn Kelly.

Romney notably led an all-out attack on arguable [Sleezebag]’s biggest strength: His reputation as a savvy and hugely successful businessman. What about [Sleezebag] Airlines? [Sleezebag] University? [Sleezebag] Mortgage? [Sleezebag] Vodka?

“A business genius, he is not,” the former Massachusetts governor said.


And Romney previewed what strategists in both parties have suggested could be the best line of attack against [Sleezebag]: That his missteps cost others dearly.

“His bankruptcies have crushed small businesses and the men and women who worked for them,” he said.


Romney repeatedly returned to sharp assaults on [Sleezebag]’s temperament and his judgment.

“Donald [Sleezebag] says he admires Vladimir Putin, at the same time he’s called George W. Bush a liar,” Romney said. “That is a twisted example of evil trumping good.”


(http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Dg7k6ZHWilF0IOk18GhNlA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1/http://41.media.tumblr.com/f58af905f52945485371a5ce0e8798f8/tumblr_inline_o3h0jiV5Pk1sjejya_1280.jpg)
Mitt Romney. (Photo: Rogelio V. Solis/AP)


Romney’s broadside came as part of an escalating and increasingly desperate-feeling GOP establishment attack on [Sleezebag], whose Super Tuesday romp left him the party’s 2016 front-runner. The effort includes ramped-up efforts by the anti-[Sleezebag] Our Principles Super PAC .

It’s not clear whether any of this will work. It’s late in the cycle. [Sleezebag] voters seem to regard even accurate media coverage as an illegitimate attack on their guy. And his opponents have yet to catch fire with Republican primary voters, or do much to take down [Sleezebag], who has also shrugged off campaign-trail criticisms from former president George W. Bush. Meanwhile, in Washington, Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan has scolded [Sleezebag] for failing to denounce the KKK sufficiently loudly – and drew a threat in response.

“Paul Ryan, I don’t know him well but I’m sure I’m going to get along great with him. And if I don’t, he’s going to have to pay a big price, OK?” [Sleezebag] said at his Super Tuesday-night press conference.

Romney’s attacks were awkward in part because he courted, and secured, [Sleezebag]’s endorsement in 2012 – after the brash-talking New Yorker made himself the standard-bearer for racist-tinged “birther” claims that President Barack Obama was ineligible for the White House.

Still, Romney assailed [Sleezebag]’s calls for banning Muslims from entering the United States, as well as his regular blasts against Latino immigrants.

“He’s a man, who as you know, begged me, and I mean begged me for my endorsement four years ago,” [Sleezebag] said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” a few hours before the speech.

“We backed him and I helped him and raised money for him, and I did everything, but he didn’t do the job, he didn’t have the capability to do the job,” [Sleezebag] added.

Romney argued that it’s not too late to derail the [Sleezebag] train. And he even proposed a strategy in which Republican voters should cast their ballots for whichever of [Sleezebag]’s rivals seems most likely to beat him in a given state - an effort to deny him the majority of delegates. That could lead to a brokered nominating convention, with an uncertain outcome.

In a recent  Yahoo News interview, Romney’s top 2012 strategist  , Stuart Stevens, suggested that the clash with [Sleezebag] was far from preordained.

“Donald [Sleezebag] had a choice in the very beginning: to become a serious candidate for president or to run as kind of a Jesse Ventura candidate,” Stevens said, referring to the blunt-speaking former professional wrestler and action movie actor who starred in “Predator” and later became governor of Minnesota.

“Had he become a serious candidate for president, he would have taken the time and done the work to study policy, and really learned a lot. He, in Iowa, would have been meeting with business people, small-biz people, asking their ideas,” Stevens continued. “He would have been meeting with teachers and students and parents and talking about education. He would have been doing these things that candidates that want to succeed and are serious do.”

But “instead, what he’s done is what he enjoys. He’s at a point in his life where he doesn’t do anything he doesn’t enjoy,” the consultant said. “What does he enjoy? He likes having these big rallies and going out and ranting for an hour. That’s fine — it just has very little correlation to what you need to do to get elected president.”
-voters-theyre-162616616.html]http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-tells-donald-[Sleezebag]-voters-theyre-162616616.html (http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-tells-donald-[Sleezebag)



One photo of an Ugly Old Man omitted.  I don't pretend to not have my biases.  What the handsome old man is quoted as saying in the headline - truth; unvarnished pure truth.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 03, 2016, 06:39:13 PM
In the following scan from an 80s issue of What If, Captain America is actually denouncing the excesses of the (ultra right-wing supervillain/terrorist group) Secret Empire having taken over America with a Cap imposter and gone -literally, in this case- fascist.

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/211/475/1600/Cap_Lays_It_Down.jpg)

Thing is, I think his speech applies 15 years ago and applies now...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 04, 2016, 06:06:36 AM
I doubt if Romney changed many minds. The party establishment probably said "YEAH!!" and the [Sleezebag] supporters probably see it as proof they are taking over, and it's time to press on.

I heard somebody compare this year's election to 1968, with [Sleezebag] as sort of the re-incarnation of George Wallace.  Here's an interesting article on the topic-
-george-wallace-racist-ghost-432164]http://www.newsweek.com/donald-[Sleezebag]-george-wallace-racist-ghost-432164 (http://www.newsweek.com/donald-[Sleezebag)

I watched the debates again, of course. Believe me, it would be great if The Leader could directly answer a question neither bad mouthing his competitors ( who by the way are losers), nor bragging about his popularity ( which, by the way is amazing!).



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 04, 2016, 06:44:18 AM
Buncle on the "empire" thing, you came out of WW2 with huge "soft" power influence due to loans and a system of international treaties, most of which were designed to create buffer between you and your enemies.
NATO, WTO, Marshall plan, India Green Revolution, etc., are/were all designed so that with some help, locals would become useful both to U.S. as well as improve themselves.
Apart from some misguided policies (mistakes happen) in Central America and probably a few others, the countries U.S. historically helped, were better off with U.S. than without.
As you can also see, even if U.S. holds influence, it is neither absolute, nor irreversible, nor unsurmountable as would be the case with real empires (at least until they are close to disintegrating).
Just see "Castro & Cuba", "Merkel & Germany", etc.

For a person who has lived in a real empire, U.S. people saying they have an empire sounds like you're in a different world.

We used to look up to U.S. the entirety of soviet years, especially the years before disintegration.
Even with the problems U.S. had (nobody's perfect) it was a "dreamland" of the type found in fairy tales compared to the murky place we were in.
People literally would not believe it can be so good as they tell about the level of prosperity and individual freedoms in U.S..
We had this Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty thing which was mostly just telling as it is and people were saying it's all "capitalist propaganda" because it could not be true and would not work that way.

When we joined NATO, there was a celebration in the streets. We joined it by a referendum. A dozen countries did.
Are empires built by referendums w/o foreign troop presence?
There was no real opposition to joining NATO & WTO in most countries that did.
Compare it to joining EU, where doubts remain even after living in it for decades and reaping a lot of benefits from that (see Brexit).

U.S. until recently was THE center of good in the world not because it's perfect or has no problems, but because it is still an order of magnitude better than almost every other country of global significance and because people trust U.S. not to outright annex them, which is not the case with pretty much any other influence they could come into, and thus view U.S. as a kind of protector which has little if any interest in themselves other than keeping them intact/free.

---
I guess vonbach is the residental forum troll?
I assumed he was serious, but the medieval tax comment cleared all doubts.
---

That having said, from the discussions I get a feeling that there are quite a few myths going around in U.S. which are influencing how people vote;

The information is there, at your fingertips.
Myths about your guilt, your high taxes and other perceived ills can be dispelled in a few minutes.

I don't remember which of your presidents said, but it went something like "Give people the truth and trust them to make the right decision".
It's now 21th century and you can obtain the truth yourselves (or at least identify a lie) and there's no excuse not to because its easier than endlessly discussing a lie.

On Bernie topic, even if it's obsolete by now.
Here are some quotes from great people on merits of socialism.
They are both true. We have seen it in person.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ccg7TQlW0AA3JWq.jpg)
(http://quotes.lifehack.org/media/quotes/quote-Margaret-Thatcher-the-problem-with-socialism-is-that-you-167746.png)

Yes, and don't bring up Sweden, Finland or Denmark.
Their ability to run socialism for so long is well researched and it's a mix of historical circumstances, culture and high taxes, neither of which you have or want to have.
And they have been backtracking from it since a few years, as they also are facing problems with sustainability of their model.


Quote
I doubt if Romney changed many minds. The party establishment probably said "YEAH!!" and the [Sleezebag] supporters probably see it as proof they are taking over, and it's time to press on.

Exactly.
The establishment is so clueless that they have been actively empowering [Sleezebag] for the most of time.
There's hoping [Sleezebag] wins nomination but not the seat and GOP establishment is toppled to create that party into something better, like closer to original ideals of free market liberalism. :)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 03:20:55 PM
bin, you should be put out that Senator Graham didn't do better - big on free markets and foreign intervention.

I'll try to respond to your points in a little detail later when I've woken up and caught up on my morning routine...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 04, 2016, 04:35:33 PM
I'm not a U.S. citizen, and even if I were, I know politics from inside a little - the basic learning is, politicians are like cars on used car lot.
You may like this one better visually or this one could be more fit for your needs, but don't fall in love with any or you're likely in for a disappointment.

I am also not promoting anyone, just pointing out that some of the "features" of candidates which you either ignore or even consider beneficial are not, as well as some of the background you are using to evaluate candidates and the way your country is going, is based in false assumptions, such as the "american guilt"/"we have enemies because what we did" myth or that your taxes are high.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 04:57:11 PM
And I'm here on the ground in the middle of it, with the Bossmen more danger to me than Putin -maybe-.

If Sanders was going to win, this would be a different conversation.  The juggling act I have to make is supporting a Perot Effect that one hopes will influence HRC in office the way Perot influenced her husband to submit balanced budgets to Congress -something he would have been unlikely to break sloppy tradition doing otherwise- and not any of the kooky far-right stuff Perot pushed.  Mrs. Clinton is VERY business-friendly, and isn't going socialist -ever- because Mr. Sanders did well.  -But one only hopes she'll remember that one of the things government is good for is to protect the masses from the robber barons.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 04, 2016, 05:30:47 PM
Since you're talking about robber barons, you might really like this book:
http://books.simonandschuster.com/Red-Notice/Bill-Browder/9781476755748 (http://books.simonandschuster.com/Red-Notice/Bill-Browder/9781476755748)
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/147675571X (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Notice-Finance-Murder-Justice/dp/147675571X)

(https://crimezine.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/red-notice-crimezine.png)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 07:29:29 PM
This would be a post-1990 situation?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 04, 2016, 07:47:00 PM
Not sure what you are asking, but if you've ever heard of Russia and Moldova Jackson-Vanik Repeal and Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act of 2012 of U.S, or "The Magnitsky Act", this is a book by Bill Browder, an american whose business partner was Magnitsky and got killed (in 2009).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act)
http://www.billbrowder.com (http://www.billbrowder.com)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 07:58:58 PM
I was asking whether it was during the wild west of business in Russia since the commies went away - just to be sure, even though it didn't look likely that high finance was exactly a Brezhnev kind of situation.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 04, 2016, 08:03:12 PM
Browder did business in Russia 1996. - 2008.
And he was forced to quit it not during the wild years, but during "stability" of Putin.

Here's an interview with him by Fareed Zakharia: http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/23/exp-gps-browder-sot.cnn (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/02/23/exp-gps-browder-sot.cnn)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 08:09:33 PM
Well Putin's "stability" is a profoundly corrupt and frequently violent kleptocracy - and that's according to the Russians.  Even Ugly American I know that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 04, 2016, 09:45:12 PM
Mr. Kasich is talking today about the likelihood of a brokered convention - I still think he's dreaming, but given the fellows ahead of him, he could come off looking like the only grownup in the room to the Party, if it came to that.

It appears Mr. Rubio is thinking along similar lines, but between his Senate attendance record and the savaging he took recently from Mr. Christie, the mass media group mind seems to be congealing around the idea that his window of opportunity has passed.  -And nobody likes Cruz.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 12:22:35 AM
Sorry to have taken so late in the day to get to this - but I woke up to a wall of text, and that's almost never going to get responded to right away.  I'm just not a morning person.

Buncle on the "empire" thing, you came out of WW2 with huge "soft" power influence due to loans and a system of international treaties, most of which were designed to create buffer between you and your enemies.
NATO, WTO, Marshall plan, India Green Revolution, etc., are/were all designed so that with some help, locals would become useful both to U.S. as well as improve themselves.
Apart from some misguided policies (mistakes happen) in Central America and probably a few others, the countries U.S. historically helped, were better off with U.S. than without.
As you can also see, even if U.S. holds influence, it is neither absolute, nor irreversible, nor unsurmountable as would be the case with real empires (at least until they are close to disintegrating).
Just see "Castro & Cuba", "Merkel & Germany", etc.

For a person who has lived in a real empire, U.S. people saying they have an empire sounds like you're in a different world.

We used to look up to U.S. the entirety of soviet years, especially the years before disintegration.
Even with the problems U.S. had (nobody's perfect) it was a "dreamland" of the type found in fairy tales compared to the murky place we were in.
People literally would not believe it can be so good as they tell about the level of prosperity and individual freedoms in U.S..
We had this Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty thing which was mostly just telling as it is and people were saying it's all "capitalist propaganda" because it could not be true and would not work that way.

When we joined NATO, there was a celebration in the streets. We joined it by a referendum. A dozen countries did.
Are empires built by referendums w/o foreign troop presence?
There was no real opposition to joining NATO & WTO in most countries that did.
Compare it to joining EU, where doubts remain even after living in it for decades and reaping a lot of benefits from that (see Brexit).

U.S. until recently was THE center of good in the world not because it's perfect or has no problems, but because it is still an order of magnitude better than almost every other country of global significance and because people trust U.S. not to outright annex them, which is not the case with pretty much any other influence they could come into, and thus view U.S. as a kind of protector which has little if any interest in themselves other than keeping them intact/free.
I'll only say that A.) think of it as more reason to trust the US, that so many of us worry about such stuff, and B.) you're the first time in my years on the web that a European has told me the US rocks.  That's pretty refreshing, sir.

I see I should have gotten to this sooner.


---
I guess vonbach is the residental forum troll?
I assumed he was serious, but the medieval tax comment cleared all doubts.
---
If I thought he talked like he does to grief us, exactly, I'd have gleefully perma'd him six months ago.  No, not in my opinion, a troll.  He just believes the infuriating stuff he says, and hasn't adjusted to our forum culture to adopt a more sophisticated way of expressing it.  -That IS a very serious problem, however, getting troll-y as the failure to take the rough edges off and be appropriate to the crowd here gets older and older.  See a good deal of the last two pages of the stickied rules thread in Command Nexus for my policy musings on members who are bad for the community without necessarily actually breaking the rules.  (Protip: don't be that guy - you won't forever, here.)

I believe in maximum feasible transparency in forum management, and this is me trying to shoot straight.

---

Points off for using Maggie Thatcher on me.  For someone who claims to 'get' the west better than the westerners -that is something you've been trying to tell me, that I don't know the challenges and problems of my own country and you're setting me straight- that's colossally tone-deaf.  Snipped, and you're unlikely to ever get any traction trying to sell me on the evils of socialism with the clear implication that Sanders leads to Stalin.  Leninism and its various derivatives around the world were indeed bad to be on the same planet with - stipulated.  The lot were murderers and tyrants, stipulated.  -The rest of your line does not necessarily follow, and this will continue to be a no-sale.

I'm not a U.S. citizen, and even if I were, I know politics from inside a little - the basic learning is, politicians are like cars on used car lot.
You may like this one better visually or this one could be more fit for your needs, but don't fall in love with any or you're likely in for a disappointment.

I am also not promoting anyone, just pointing out that some of the "features" of candidates which you either ignore or even consider beneficial are not, as well as some of the background you are using to evaluate candidates and the way your country is going, is based in false assumptions, such as the "american guilt"/"we have enemies because what we did" myth or that your taxes are high.
This was just rude.  Your assumptions are insulting, undiplomatic, and your argument bad persuasive strategy - much as I enjoyed Romney calling those people "suckers", that never works.  You've come on strong with your passionate anti-communist message, and I've chosen not to engage it directly much, but you need not assume that silence=anything.  I wasn't particularly inspired to discuss something that smelled of a fight, okay?

Not your fault that we had some serious trouble in the 50s in the US with fanatical anti-communists who weren't fanatically in favor of the Bill of Rights, but coming on too strong with that sort of talk has unfortunate associations to Americans not of the fanatical right persuasion.   Joe McCarthy was a lot more dangerous to my parents than Stalin ended up being.  Now you know.

I'm not on here to quarrel.  You say interesting things articulately, and that's great; keep that part up, and educate me about Latvia, 'cause I'm curious. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 05, 2016, 06:50:35 AM
Mr. Kasich is talking today about the likelihood of a brokered convention - I still think he's dreaming, but given the fellows ahead of him, he could come off looking like the only grownup in the room to the Party, if it came to that.

It appears Mr. Rubio is thinking along similar lines, but between his Senate attendance record and the savaging he took recently from Mr. Christie, the mass media group mind seems to be congealing around the idea that his window of opportunity has passed.  -And nobody likes Cruz.

Well, I think it's either [Sleezebag] wins the nomination outright- or it goes to the convention.

For a while, everybody thought that [Sleezebag] would eventually screw up, and they wanted to inherit his supporters, so they were polite, or circumspect. Either that, or the media would take him down. They love to do that, it creates stories and new frontrunners. He actually did screw up, as expected.

The trouble is [Sleezebag]'s base doesn't waiver, and [Sleezebag] won't run out of money, so he won't go away.

I think Shrewd Cruz was the first to figure that out, and turned on [Sleezebag]. He wanted to position himself as the anti-establishment alternative. But as you say, he's not so likable. More than any Republican, he's been an obstructionist. So if you're informed, and you don't like the way the federal gov is failing to budget, stay operating, etc... he bears a lot of blame. 

Rubio seized the spotlight, trying to portray himself as Reagan reincarnate, the consensus to bring the party back to glory. As you say, I think his moment has passed.

I think Romney was right that the way to deny [Sleezebag] is to keep everybody in the race. As the single digit candidates dropped out, [Sleezebag] went from the low to mid 30's to the low to mid 40's.

So in a convention- well, I don't see the Cruz or Rubio or [Sleezebag] supporters closing ranks behind the other guy after a nasty campaign like this one. Summer is a little too soon to forgive and forget. But if they really want to win, they should run with Kasich. 1) The Republicans never win without Ohio. It's that important. 2) He runs on his record, not from it. 3) America prefers him, according to the numbers.

But that's assuming that the Republicans can agree on an effective candidate.

Personally, I'm expecting [Sleezebag] to win outright. I've already determined his perfect running mate-
Charlie Sheen! "Winning!"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on March 05, 2016, 07:52:30 AM
Quote
You're the first time in my years on the web that a European has told me the US rocks.  That's pretty refreshing, sir.
Many Europeans suck.
They've grown up in capitalism, had most of the stuff they wanted and never knew any other system nor cared to check the available evidence and are clamoring for those others with religious conviction.
Additionally, in youth there is massive sense of entitlement.
Regardless of the fact that their parents started their careers in very humble jobs before arriving at their current prosperity, many youths refuse to work in those same low-level jobs that business often considers stepping stones to higher levels.
Instead, they claim that, because they have this high level of education, they should immediately be placed in a corresponding level of responsibility.
In some countries with worker deficit, like Latvia, this happens with very bad results to overall business efficiency, in others, like Spain, this results in huge (almot 50%) youth unemployment, them being replaced by immigrant workers, who are happy to fill those low paid jobs and later advance their career to fill the same spots youth was aiming at in the first place.

Also, learning history or just checking basic facts which are now publicly available in seconds due to internet age, seems to not be "in", which contributes to rise of the European Trumps - Le Pen, Corbyn, Farage, Orban, Kaczynski, Podemos and others.
Paradox or information availability - the easier to check the facts, the more popular are liars.

Quote
Points off for using Maggie Thatcher on me.  For someone who claims to 'get' the west better than the westerners -that is something you've been trying to tell me, that I don't know the challenges and problems of my own country and you're setting me straight- that's colossally tone-deaf.  Snipped, and you're unlikely to ever get any traction trying to sell me on the evils of socialism with the clear implication that Sanders leads to Stalin.  Leninism and its various derivatives around the world were indeed bad to be on the same planet with - stipulated.  The lot were murderers and tyrants, stipulated.  -The rest of your line does not necessarily follow, and this will continue to be a no-sale.
That you don't personally like Thatcher does not mean she did not understand the topic or was not right on it.
Similarly, I never claimed Sanders leads to Stalin.
None of the quotes from Kasparov or Thatcher seem to imply that either.
Rather, they are talking about impact of socialism on society and economy.
I've witnessed this impact firsthand and many people who have travelled from west to post-soviet countries and vice versa, express the same opinions.
The perils of socialism described in those quotes have nothing to do with Lenin or Stalin or any other murderers or tyrants.
They don't even mention any human rights abuses, so I wonder where are you getting this "line" I'm not even trying to sell.

Quote
This was just rude.  Your assumptions are insulting, undiplomatic, and your argument bad persuasive strategy - much as I enjoyed Romney calling those people "suckers", that never works.  You've come on strong with your passionate anti-communist message, and I've chosen not to engage it directly much, but you need not assume that silence=anything.  I wasn't particularly inspired to discuss something that smelled of a fight, okay?
I'm not a native English speaker, so some things may sound sharper than they are meant.
But I also like to say things as they are.
If somebody comes to discussion and goes at length about exorbitant U.S. taxes, when information of the contrary is available in seconds, I don't consider it rude to point out that they should do the most basic of homework. It's simply the truth.

My point was, "the american guilt myth" and others named are simply myths.

Nobody knowing anything about Middle East history thinks U.S. is "guilty" of the Middle East turmoil now happening. This is something that would have happened sooner or later for reasons I explained before.
Similarly, nobody in their right mind thinks U.S. is "guilty" of any of these:
 - Korean war
 - Vietnam war
 - Gulf War
 - Afghanistan war

Some can dispute Iraq war, but Iraq would be Syria's clone now, should Saddam stayed.
For very similar reasons and with very similar results.

As I already pointed out, vonbach actually put the root of this myth - the idea that your enemies are such because you did something to them.
Truth is, your enemies are mostly such because they hate what you are as it is in direct conflict with their worldview.

Some convinced "enemies of U.S." live next door to me.
I can talk with them any day and I know there is nothing rational in their hate. At best you can write it off to envy.

If you bring up atrocities/civilian deaths as reason to feel guilt, consider the following:
1. Rationalist argument.
Both sides caused civilian deaths and had atrocities.
In some cases, the regime which filled the vacuum after you left caused more death and misery than you ever (could have) inflicted.
And you did not start most of these wars.

2. Moralist/human rights argument.
The mere fact you CAN discuss the problems caused by your intervention and publicly feel guilty is a sign of moral superiority.
In most cases, the other side would suppress any and all discussion about their own failings and/or evil deeds, to the point of deliberately deleting/covering up large numbers of deaths and misery beyond recovery. E.g. nobody knows exactly how many people have died of communist regime brutality during and since Korean War in North Korea, but chances are, the number is huge. Similarly, it is entirely possible that Vietnamese villages that cooperated with americans in any way were burned to the ground after U.S. left, but in the statistics these would be counted as "burned by americans". At least that's what USSR used to do with "disloyal" villages in own territory ("burned by Nazis").

Quote
Not your fault that we had some serious trouble in the 50s in the US with fanatical anti-communists who weren't fanatically in favor of the Bill of Rights, but coming on too strong with that sort of talk has unfortunate associations to Americans not of the fanatical right persuasion.   Joe McCarthy was a lot more dangerous to my parents than Stalin ended up being.  Now you know.
You like Stalin too much. That's like in the joke about every internet discussion ultimately going down to Hitler. :)
Reality is, Stalin is just a person, so is Joe McCarthy.
And Stalin's policies were perhaps the most right-wing of all the USSR leaders.
Abortion was prohibited, standard of living significantly reduced, mass militarization at the expense of social needs, distinct focus on large industry enterprises, mass forced labour in industry etc.
Doesn't sound socialist, does it?

Loving or hating a person can obscure the actual problem.
Because some anti-communists were dumb or dangerous, does not imply that communism/socialism is a better idea than it would be without those anti-communists.
In every group large enough there are radicals and judging anti-communists by a few radicals you know, is the same as judging all muslims by San Bernardino.

Basically, I'm talking about socialism as a system and a cultural phenomenon.
There are a few countries in the world where it seems to work, but in most others it has failed spectacularly.

The problems with socialism in U.S.:
1.People are not fond of bigger taxes. Socialism and low taxes like yours just won't work. There are 0 countries in the world history that have managed socialism long-term with your tax levels. Are you prepared to lose a significant part of your purchasing power & export competitiveness due to increased tax?

2. U.S. culture of individual achievement, leadership, striving to be the best, individual freedoms, including socio-economic are contrary to socialism. Are you sure you want to give up your identity?

3. Federation. In countries where significant local autonomies exist, differences in social support level can cause significant internal and external migration, which does not benefit neither economy of country as a whole, nor the social system, as usually more burden is created where it can not be supported. Would you like several more Detroit's just because some blue state goes full-on socialist, while it's red neighbours put on all the brakes they can find?

4. Bureaucracy and more state. Socialism inevitably leads to more state & more bureaucracy. Isn't it contradictory to hate establishment, scoff at bureaucracy and at the same time ask for more? If you think your state manages funds poorly (large mil expenses, red tape, etc) and its agencies are incompetent, why do you think having more funds go through state or more and bigger agencies will help in any way?

5. Very hard to revert. The places that went back from socialism to less socialism mostly did this due to/via internal turmoil. Most voters will never give up social benefits which they consider "free" (although they really are not and are actually quite costly price/performance wise).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 10:53:59 AM
Quote
For a while, everybody thought that [Sleezebag] would eventually screw up, and they wanted to inherit his supporters, so they were polite, or circumspect. Either that, or the media would take him down. They love to do that, it creates stories and new frontrunners. He actually did screw up, as expected.

People are so pissed off that there is almost no way for [Sleezebag] to screw it up.
People in general are simply fed up with both parties. Both of them blame each other
so the voters take them at their word and blame both.

Quote
If I thought he talked like he does to grief us, exactly, I'd have gleefully perma'd him six months ago.  No, not in my opinion, a troll.  He just believes the infuriating stuff he says,
No. I'm not a troll. I don't care about the opinion of anyone but Yahweh (god) and I haven't learned to sugar coat things.
I'm probably the closest thing to a D and D dwarf you get in real life as far as personality.
Oh by the way I spent two years or so listening to a double PHD in religion and medieval
history. The comment about us paying more taxes than a medieval peasant is more or less
accurate. In biblical times a 10% tax was a punishment.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 02:24:03 PM
People are so pissed off that there is almost no way for [Sleezebag] to screw it up.
People in general are simply fed up with both parties. Both of them blame each other
so the voters take them at their word and blame both.
This is true, sadly.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 08:19:01 PM
Quote
You're the first time in my years on the web that a European has told me the US rocks.  That's pretty refreshing, sir.
Many Europeans suck.
They've grown up in capitalism, had most of the stuff they wanted and never knew any other system nor cared to check the available evidence and are clamoring for those others with religious conviction.
Additionally, in youth there is massive sense of entitlement.
Regardless of the fact that their parents started their careers in very humble jobs before arriving at their current prosperity, many youths refuse to work in those same low-level jobs that business often considers stepping stones to higher levels.
Instead, they claim that, because they have this high level of education, they should immediately be placed in a corresponding level of responsibility.
In some countries with worker deficit, like Latvia, this happens with very bad results to overall business efficiency, in others, like Spain, this results in huge (almot 50%) youth unemployment, them being replaced by immigrant workers, who are happy to fill those low paid jobs and later advance their career to fill the same spots youth was aiming at in the first place.

Also, learning history or just checking basic facts which are now publicly available in seconds due to internet age, seems to not be "in", which contributes to rise of the European Trumps - Le Pen, Corbyn, Farage, Orban, Kaczynski, Podemos and others.
Paradox or information availability - the easier to check the facts, the more popular are liars.
TL;DR version - they're spoiled.  There's a lot of that going around in the First World.  We're talking like Boring Old Farts, but the kids still really are spoiled.

That you don't personally like Thatcher does not mean she did not understand the topic or was not right on it.
Similarly, I never claimed Sanders leads to Stalin.
None of the quotes from Kasparov or Thatcher seem to imply that either.
Rather, they are talking about impact of socialism on society and economy.
I've witnessed this impact firsthand and many people who have travelled from west to post-soviet countries and vice versa, express the same opinions.
The perils of socialism described in those quotes have nothing to do with Lenin or Stalin or any other murderers or tyrants.
They don't even mention any human rights abuses, so I wonder where are you getting this "line" I'm not even trying to sell.
I predict that Sanders will get a couple of more liberal planks on the Democratic platform at the convention, make a speech endorsing HRC, and proceed to campaign for her, having nudged her left with his success.

This is a good thing.  Someday, the progressives will be on top and need to be opposed when they go too far; that is the way of the world.  That day is not close, however.

This multi-quoting is too much work.  More next post.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Elok on March 05, 2016, 08:47:56 PM
As a (barely) Millennial, I have to say: the reason so many of us believe we ought to have everything right away is that we were persistently taught it for our entire lives.  How much did we learn about the importance of self-esteem in school?  How many movies did we see where some bright-eyed schmo triumphs against all odds by following his dreams and enduring a thirty-second training montage?  When we were told about our career options, how much stress was laid on innate ability or available opportunities?  Go into any third-grade classroom and you'll find at least three kids planning to be president, with another five each interested in sports and entertainment.  Nobody will ever caution these children to have a back-up plan.

I pursued an English major for years.  Nobody--not parents, not friends, not college officials--warned me that it would be useless for getting a job.  I took it for granted that I'd find a job waiting for me when I graduated because nobody had ever told me any differently.  They all said college---->career.  It didn't help that I was arrogant and lazy, but the only reason I'm not drowning in debt as a double-employed foodservice worker right now is that I had a fantastic personal support network and my education was paid for.  I can see how somebody with $40K left in student loans and nothing to show for it might be angry.  There's something wrong with this picture.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
I'm not a native English speaker, so some things may sound sharper than they are meant.
But I also like to say things as they are.
If somebody comes to discussion and goes at length about exorbitant U.S. taxes, when information of the contrary is available in seconds, I don't consider it rude to point out that they should do the most basic of homework. It's simply the truth.

My point was, "the american guilt myth" and others named are simply myths.

Nobody knowing anything about Middle East history thinks U.S. is "guilty" of the Middle East turmoil now happening. This is something that would have happened sooner or later for reasons I explained before.
Similarly, nobody in their right mind thinks U.S. is "guilty" of any of these:
 - Korean war
 - Vietnam war
 - Gulf War
 - Afghanistan war

Some can dispute Iraq war, but Iraq would be Syria's clone now, should Saddam stayed.
For very similar reasons and with very similar results.

As I already pointed out, vonbach actually put the root of this myth - the idea that your enemies are such because you did something to them.
Truth is, your enemies are mostly such because they hate what you are as it is in direct conflict with their worldview.

Some convinced "enemies of U.S." live next door to me.
I can talk with them any day and I know there is nothing rational in their hate. At best you can write it off to envy.

If you bring up atrocities/civilian deaths as reason to feel guilt, consider the following:
1. Rationalist argument.
Both sides caused civilian deaths and had atrocities.
In some cases, the regime which filled the vacuum after you left caused more death and misery than you ever (could have) inflicted.
And you did not start most of these wars.

2. Moralist/human rights argument.
The mere fact you CAN discuss the problems caused by your intervention and publicly feel guilty is a sign of moral superiority.
In most cases, the other side would suppress any and all discussion about their own failings and/or evil deeds, to the point of deliberately deleting/covering up large numbers of deaths and misery beyond recovery. E.g. nobody knows exactly how many people have died of communist regime brutality during and since Korean War in North Korea, but chances are, the number is huge. Similarly, it is entirely possible that Vietnamese villages that cooperated with americans in any way were burned to the ground after U.S. left, but in the statistics these would be counted as "burned by americans". At least that's what USSR used to do with "disloyal" villages in own territory ("burned by Nazis").
This is too many different subjects at the same time, but a few remarks:

Dude, war is bad.  War is mass murder on a horrific scale and no sale on trying to blanket justify a bunch of foreign wars.  My dad, son of a sharecropper during the Great Depression, served in Korea and was able to put himself through college because of the GI bill afterwards - and I asked him once in his last years if he had to live his life over and not going to Korea meant a life spent pumping gas and being very poor -and believe me, poor was one of the last things the man could have stood being- would he go?  "No", he said.  (He was technically a medic, and had some experiences handling dead bodies that scared him forever.  My life was negatively impacted by that part.)

HOWEVER- on Korea and Vietnam, I'll say that the domino effect was widely mocked in this country in my childhood while we were still fighting in Vietnam -we lost that one, BTW, little as we like to admit- but Mao, still alive at the time, believed in it.  Brezhnev believed in it - it's straight Marxist doctrine.  The communist bloc was aggressively expansionistic, and somebody had to oppose them, whether we believed in the domino theory or not.  Period.  (And we totally won the hell out of Korea, achieving our war aims and nothing but, and I don't have to ask a South Korean -still free over 60 years later- to figure that out.)

So - it's infinitely more complicated than you're trying to claim, but yes, it's good more than otherwise that there was somebody to keep Stalin from expanding and murdering even more than he did.  Partially sold.  War may be bad, but that thinking is only a good thing as long as it doesn't stop peoples from being able to defend themselves.


The Middle East, on the other hand, is Chinatown (movie reference meaning chaotic place where non-stop craziness goes down).  The Ottoman Empire may not have been good for much as overlords, but for 400 or so years, they kept a lot of subject peoples from working out ethnic/religious hatreds on each other in the form of lots of murder - but unfortunately didn't do much to separate them.

When the empire went away at the end of WWI (it's actually more complicated than this, given a lot of western administration not in the best interest of the locals between world wars, as any Middle Easterner will tell you in considerably more detail than I can, but still) the artificial situation the Ottomans left behind has been shaking out for 98 years now, violence frequently involved, and oil bring a lot of money and power into it -also strategic importance to all of the first world- and it's everyone's problem now.

Time to post this much, so I can see what else has happened on the boards while I was writing - more to come on the Middle East...  I hope Elok will pitch in on the historical perspective...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 09:50:25 PM
SO -

Iraq I:  to oversimplify, screw Hussein.  The invasion of Kuwait was naked aggression and nothing but - you should never get to get away with that at all in the modern world, and you certainly don't when you do it to Very Rich People with Very Rich and Scared Neighbors Who Figure They're Next.  War aims achieved, Kuwait back to status quo, the Saudis paid us, Hussein at least bloodied and humiliated.  The real George Bush is a much, much better man than the left gave him credit for -ditto the far right that hated him for not being far right enough- and handled the international diplomacy angle very, very well.  -A pity, all that didn't get done, not least Hussein still having his own country to run and murder with/in, but that would have been a whole 'nother order of problems, bad diplomacy and not part of our war aims.

Afghanistan - I don't have anything original to say about this one.  It was necessary.  The way we did it, sending in a few hundred spooks and special forces to organize the Afghan opposition, was the right play for getting involved in The Graveyard of Empires.  It's not going to accomplish much good in the long run, probably, to win a war and lose the occupation, but there are limits, and sometimes the ugly business of statecraft means you have to go bust up a place to let the world know you mean business - and we at least achieved that.

Iraq II - they sold this as having something to do with the thing that happened in New York -a plain ol' lie- but I'll admit that I don't buy that Hussein didn't have WMDs just because we didn't find them after he knew we were coming.  It's Hussein, and either we still ain't found them or he destroyed them in time.  The world is rotating just fine without that man still on it.

We made a big mess there, though.  It's another war won, but not so much with the occupation.  We achieved out war aims, with Hussein gone (and I'm convinced the Cheney Bund wanted to disrupt the world oil supply, there being a lot of money to be made if you know that's coming, but I'll be shocked if that's ever proved - it is treason, though).  But only time will tell if the settling out of ethnic and religious hatreds (mass murder) in the artificial UN mandate nation of Iraq offsets the harm Hussein would have done.  We were probably in the wrong to pull out of the occupation as soon as we did - even if you opposed that war utterly, we had a responsibility once we'd overthrown their government to manage our own mess.  I do despair of my own people.

But it's the Middle East, Chinatown, and I sincerely wish we could stay out of it, while acknowledging that we can't.  Oil ruined everything for that, and makes their problems the world's.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 09:53:06 PM
I already answered the last passage about socialism to my own satisfaction in my prediction about Sanders' future behavior.

We'll see if I'm right or not before the end of the year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 09:54:26 PM
As a (barely) Millennial, I have to say: the reason so many of us believe we ought to have everything right away is that we were persistently taught it for our entire lives.  How much did we learn about the importance of self-esteem in school?  How many movies did we see where some bright-eyed schmo triumphs against all odds by following his dreams and enduring a thirty-second training montage?  When we were told about our career options, how much stress was laid on innate ability or available opportunities?  Go into any third-grade classroom and you'll find at least three kids planning to be president, with another five each interested in sports and entertainment.  Nobody will ever caution these children to have a back-up plan.

I pursued an English major for years.  Nobody--not parents, not friends, not college officials--warned me that it would be useless for getting a job.  I took it for granted that I'd find a job waiting for me when I graduated because nobody had ever told me any differently.  They all said college---->career.  It didn't help that I was arrogant and lazy, but the only reason I'm not drowning in debt as a double-employed foodservice worker right now is that I had a fantastic personal support network and my education was paid for.  I can see how somebody with $40K left in student loans and nothing to show for it might be angry.  There's something wrong with this picture.
Has the teaching you mentioned in the past been your main line of work?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Elok on March 05, 2016, 10:01:41 PM
I was a sub.  A dead-end job unless I wanted to try teaching full-time, which is a bum deal a lot of people take purely for the stability it offers; quite recently I got out altogether.  I'm now in training as a pharmacy tech, toying mentally with various back-to-school medical options.  I'm still signed up as a sub, but that's just to fill in occasional gaps in my real job, which pays better.  Honestly, this is better than I have a right to expect, given my past choices.  I understand that.

But I can't see what somebody less fortunate is supposed to do with his life once he's screwed it thoroughly.  Should he starve to prove the righteousness of the system?  Well, we don't really starve in this country.  We just settle into a long life of stressful, meaningless work, with welfare to fill in the gaps, until we die from preventable/lifestyle-induced illness.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 10:02:56 PM
Quote
I pursued an English major for years.  Nobody--not parents, not friends, not college officials--warned me that it would be useless for getting a job.  I took it for granted that I'd find a job waiting for me when I graduated because nobody had ever told me any differently.  They all said college---->career.

College is a scam to get young people in debt. In a podcast I listen to a man was talking about his son trying to get a job.
He had a good technical degree in a valued field and it took his son months and over 2000 applications to find a job.
This sort of thing is one reason why people are sick of mass immigration. Why hire an American when you can get some
Pakistani on a work visa  who will work for half that?
Quote
Well, we don't really starve in this country.
Almost 20% of the country is on food stamps.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 10:11:21 PM
[blinks]  Ignoring the previous, which I find to be 100% turns-out-not-to-be-the-case...

I subbed middle school some in 1992, and it was a revelation about teachers even though I was raised by one.  The money was pathetic, but it was pretty easy work, considering they kept giving me math and subjects I'm weak in, never English, Social Studies, History...

College, pro and con, is a subject worth getting into, but too big for this thread, I think...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 10:54:17 PM
Quote
Ignoring the previous, which I find to be 100% turns-out-not-to-be-the-case...
There is a reason people are voting for [Sleezebag].  They hope he can get us out of this mess.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 10:56:18 PM
HE's not the guy, von.  Do google that Bill Maher show video of him cussing in public.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 11:07:03 PM
I'm not sure I care if he wins or loses. He's already done his job by moving the political pendulum to the right.
He's also brought the issues involved out in the open. [Sleezebag] really isn't that conservative, he's more of a moderate.
The reason the DC insider crowd is going insane is he's not a paid puppet like the rest. If he fails to get elected
than someone more conservative will come along.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 11:15:36 PM
This is what it's come to, bin.  For all that even von himself admits he's an outlier, this is what it's come to.

-I left out earlier that I don't like Stalin at all - your reference to godwinizing is exactly right, because I think the main difference between him and Hitler is that he was a lot more successful at it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 11:31:52 PM
Quote
For all that even von himself admits he's an outlier, this is what it's come to.
What did they expect to happen? How much did they think we were going to take?
Of course the political pendulum is going to shift to the right thats what always happens.
[Sleezebag] is probably about as moderate as were going to get.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 05, 2016, 11:36:10 PM
...This is what it's come to...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 05, 2016, 11:41:46 PM
Quote
...This is what it's come to...
Yes. Worse means someone like Pinochet who will simply start giving people helicopter rides.
Or really worse means a civil war like Yugoslavia in a nuclear armed country of 300 million plus
people. Read Civil War 2 by Thomas Chittum.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 06, 2016, 12:07:54 AM
von, just so you know, I don't want to talk politics with you, ever -that's not personal, just a fact- and you put me, as host, in a bad position when you talk like that.  This evening's series of posts manage to at least not be infuriating/offensive, but the reality you live in is not reconcilable with the rest of us, you're not in any danger of persuading anyone here, and I just don't see any point to it, when it's neither entertaining nor educational.  It ends up being Serially Vexatious and little else.

The other guys can just choose not to engage you, but I don't feel like I have that luxury, as owner.  I'm out of ideas.  I'm rude to you constantly, far more than I'd allow someone else to be to someone else, and I hate Being That Guy on top of it.  I REALLY hate Being That Guy with the banhammer even more, just so you know - but I'm out of ideas.

Some of this is just the inevitable price of being an active member on a forum I manage without backup - there goes objectivity in tricky matters.  (But that's also why I'll still be here in two years doing the janitor work and be the only non-absentee forum owner I know of; it's a trade-off.)  Maybe I should ask Uno to moderate in here.  I'd have to let him be the Boss of Me in Rec Commons, but that would probably be a Good Thing...

Screw it; Uno?  You've offered several times - still game?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 06, 2016, 04:56:18 AM
The Leader wins in Louisiana and Kentucky.
Cruz wins in Kansas and Maine.
Rubio is stuck in 3rd place, well, 4th in Maine, and The Leader is calling for him to drop out. 

I'm watching The Leader's press conference. The first 7 rows are [Sleezebag] supporters. There are no audience microphones, so The Leader is the only one who can hear/understand the questions, and he doesn't bother to repeat them he simply says what he wants to say, and the TV audience has no idea what he's responding to, or failing to respond to.

The journalists could fix this by refusing to show up or cover such a format. They should go to a legitimate conference held by some other candidate. Then, if The Leader wants free publicity, he'd change his ways.

It should come as no surprise that The Leader spent a lot of time criticizing his competition, praising his popularity, and still managed to say "Believe me".  If he had any news it's that he finally figured out that a third party campaign would mean that he couldn't win, and then the Democrats would appoint the next few Supreme Court justices.

That's right, The Donald, many people despise or fear you that much. They think that petty, vindictive people shouldn't have nuclear missiles, and they know how much you like to "fire".

Also, your disregard for the law is disturbing,  more so your insistence that others will break the law because you tell them to.

The Trust me, I have a plan, it'll be fabulous line is wearing thin. Your federal budget numbers don't add up.


They figure you will lead the party out of power if you get the nomination, and worse if you actually get elected, because of the expected mid-term reprisals. Damage that could last a generation.





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 06, 2016, 05:01:56 AM
The Leader is probably better than the slurs I've been using in place of naming that person, if not as on-the-nose.  I do alienate people when I let my passion show too openly with the labeling, and you've actually got a gift for doing that right, Rusty...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 07, 2016, 02:26:57 PM
von, just so you know, I don't want to talk politics with you, ever -that's not personal, just a fact- and you put me, as host, in a bad position when you talk like that.  This evening's series of posts manage to at least not be infuriating/offensive, but the reality you live in is not reconcilable with the rest of us, you're not in any danger of persuading anyone here, and I just don't see any point to it, when it's neither entertaining nor educational.  It ends up being Serially Vexatious and little else.

The other guys can just choose not to engage you, but I don't feel like I have that luxury, as owner.  I'm out of ideas.  I'm rude to you constantly, far more than I'd allow someone else to be to someone else, and I hate Being That Guy on top of it.  I REALLY hate Being That Guy with the banhammer even more, just so you know - but I'm out of ideas.

Some of this is just the inevitable price of being an active member on a forum I manage without backup - there goes objectivity in tricky matters.  (But that's also why I'll still be here in two years doing the janitor work and be the only non-absentee forum owner I know of; it's a trade-off.)  Maybe I should ask Uno to moderate in here.  I'd have to let him be the Boss of Me in Rec Commons, but that would probably be a Good Thing...

Screw it; Uno?  You've offered several times - still game?

Provided you're comfortable with my philosophy in that arena. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 07, 2016, 02:35:44 PM
We'll have to talk about that -since you can't ban me, for one thing- but let's give it a try.  There being no check on me when sisko isn't around has always been a problem, one that I was aware of before people complained.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 07, 2016, 02:39:54 PM
Promote message...


gonna have to get use to seeing THAT everywhere. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 07, 2016, 02:47:55 PM
It becomes invisible to your brain in a hurry.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 07, 2016, 09:01:18 PM
(It's a broken Front Page promotion mechanism.  I think sisko broke it making it work for the BE folder, which also takes admin access and a couple extra hoops jumped, irritatingly enough.  Just post something in Chiron News Network if you want to make the Front Page.)

Quote
Sanders: GOP debates make Democrats want to ‘invest in mental health’
Yahoo!
Caitlin Dickson  Breaking News Reporter  March 06, 2016




FLINT, Mich.— More than halfway through the CNN-MLive.com Democratic presidential primary debate on Sunday, Hillary Clinton remarked on the content of the ongoing discourse, contrasting it with the chaos of recent Republican debates.

“You know, we have our differences. And we get into vigorous debate about issues, but compare the substance of this debate with what you saw on the Republican stage last week,” Clinton said.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, drawing laughs from the audience, added: “You know, we are, if elected president, going to invest a lot of money into mental health. And when you watch these Republican debates, you know why we need to invest in that.”

The Clinton camp was apparently not entirely amused by his remark. Moments after Sanders made the comment, Clinton’s deputy digital director, Jenna Lowenstein, tweeted, “Mental health is a serious issue. Cheap shots like this are a bad look.” 

Later on in the debate, Clinton insisted that if chosen as the Democratic nominee, she does not “intend to get into the gutter” with whomever the GOP nominates for president.

(Cover tile photo: Jim Young/Reuters)
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-gop-debates-make-democrats-want-to-035256908.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-gop-debates-make-democrats-want-to-035256908.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 07, 2016, 09:05:40 PM
Quote
Sanders: “I am very proud to be Jewish”
Yahoo!
Jerry Adler  Writer  March 06, 2016



It isn’t exactly a secret that Bernie Sanders, if nominated and elected, would be America’s first Jewish president, a milestone that once would have loomed large in American politics. But that factlet hasn’t attracted much comment on the campaign trail — until Sunday night’s Democratic debate, when, in response to a question from CNN moderator Anderson Cooper, Sanders opened up about his religion and his childhood in Brooklyn, at a time when it was not unusual to see neighbors with concentration-camp numbers tattooed on their forearms.

The exchange was prompted by a question from a Flint resident, Denise Ghattas, who asked Sanders if he thought “God is relevant.” Sanders, who probably mentions God less often than any candidate in recent American history, responded that “The answer is yes,” but managed to define “God” in a way that comports with his own secular, socialist views: “I think when we talk about God, whether it is Christianity, or Judaism or Islam or Buddhism, what we are talking about is what all religions hold dear. And that is to do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.”

Cooper followed up by citing a recent newspaper article that he said claimed of Sanders that “you keep your Judaism in the background,” to the disappointment of some Jewish leaders.

“I am very proud to be Jewish, and being Jewish is so much of what I am,” Sanders replied. “Look, my father’s family was wiped out by Hitler in the Holocaust. I know about what crazy and radical and extremist politics mean. I learned that lesson as a tiny, tiny child, when my mother would take me shopping, and we would see people working in stores who had numbers on their arms because they were in Hitler’s concentration camp.

“I am very proud of being Jewish, and that is an essential part of who I am as a human being.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-i-am-very-proud-of-being-jewish-042728000.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/sanders-i-am-very-proud-of-being-jewish-042728000.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 07, 2016, 09:15:59 PM
Quote
Kasich talks [Sleezebag], Hillary and the 2016 race
Yahoo!
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  March 07, 2016



Forget what the polls might say. Ohio Gov. John Kasich believes his Republican presidential campaign has enough momentum now that voters are starting to get a taste of his brand of political soft drink.

“It’s sorta like, ‘Coke, Pepsi, Kasich,’” he told Yahoo News’ Katie Couric from Monroe, Mich., on Monday. “‘I don’t think I like Coke or Pepsi all that much, and this Kasich, kinda interesting, but I don’t know much about him … so maybe I ought to go with the standard brands.’”

According to a Monmouth University poll released Monday, Kasich is gaining ground in Michigan, which holds its primary on Tuesday.

“I never thought I would really win here,” Kasich said. “I think finally people are starting to hear my message. And there isn’t any doubt that the last debate helped me because I was finally able to speak more. You know, we were sitting in the debate hall and the first 12 or 13 minutes they didn’t call on me, and people in the crowd were yelling my name, like, ‘Call on the guy, already.’”

But the Ohio governor dismissed a recent Quinnipiac University poll that showed him trailing Republican frontrunner Donald [Sleezebag] by five points in his home state.

“He’s not ahead of me. These polls are goofy,” Kasich said. “It’s not legitimate.”


Kasich admitted, however, that [Sleezebag] has tapped into “legitimate anxiety” among the GOP electorate.

“The key is to explain to these people who have this legitimate anxiety about the path forward, about who can actually diagnose the problem, treat it and fix it,” he said. “And that’s what I’ve been doing.”

And according to the governor, there’s still a long way to go in the race for the Republican nomination.

“We’re probably at halftime,” Kasich said. “If you’re an NBA fan, you kinda watch the fourth quarter, you know? I mean, we know what happens in the fourth quarter.”

“Many people never thought I’d be the last governor standing,” he noted. “And we’re having momentum. So we’ll see how it goes, day after day, one foot in front of the other. Like climbing Mount Everest.”


Kasich also blasted Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton’s call for Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder to resign over the water crisis in Flint.

“I think he has been held accountable. I think this is a guy who has had many sleepless nights,” Kasich said. “When Hillary starts talking ‘He should resign,’ what about the server in her house and the possibility she had classified information on that server?”

“That is demagoguery out of her,” he added. “I know her, and I don’t like that. I’m really agitated with the fact that here she is calling on someone else to resign, with her history and the history of her family? Give me a break.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kasich-katie-couric-2016-gop-race-ohio-live-144309250.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kasich-katie-couric-2016-gop-race-ohio-live-144309250.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 12:44:45 AM
I saw some of the Democratic debate, but I could only take so much of the Clinton question dodging demagoguery, and her hand jive.

Sanders is much more tolerable to watch and listen to. Sure, he's a cranky, old complainer, but it's usually a sincere sort of righteous indignation. Sure, he's delusional about economics, but it's kinda cute to see a guy that old who's still naïve. He's giving a voice to people who feel they haven't had one, much the same as The Leader. I get that.


I could say what Sanders should have said to Clinton, but really, the longer I talk about her the harder it is to maintain my serenity.

*******************************************************

So I was checking into Kasich polls and articles in my free time.  Thought I'd link the negative one for a change. I edited the introduction, here's the meat of it-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/03/03/why-is-kasich-still-in-the-race/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/03/03/why-is-kasich-still-in-the-race/)

Why is Kasich still in the race?
 by Jennifer Rubin, Washington Post, March 3rd.

Kasich’s ostensible excuse for staying in is that he will win Ohio. The most recent poll, taken before Donald [Sleezebag] racked up big wins on Super Tuesday, has Kasich down by 5 points behind [Sleezebag]. Even if he were to win there, where else is he supposed to win? In Pennsylvania, he may not even make it onto the ballot. News reports tell us “many of the signatures of Kasich’s electors do not match the signatures of their voter registration cards.” Others “are either not registered to vote, are not registered in the specified district or are not registered as Republicans. In several instances, the petition challenges illegible signatures or handwriting that appears to belong to third parties other than the stated elector.”

If all he is doing is accumulating a few delegates to use as chits at the convention, he should say so; otherwise he’s playing donors and supporters for suckers.

Another rationale for Kasich remaining in the race would be that he stakes out some unique position. In that regard, his only signature issue would be expansion of Obamacare/Medicaid, something that has very little sell in the GOP. Even his stance in favor of keeping the Iran deal in place (just “policing” it) is shared by [Sleezebag]. Kasich is a budget maven yet has refused to put out a balanced-budget deal. Maybe he does not have one that could pass the laugh test.

One might understand Kasich remaining in the race if he were there to link arms with Republicans of good conscience against [Sleezebag]. However, he rarely talks about [Sleezebag] and, when given an opening, refuses to criticize him. While not yet exhibiting the trance-like look of adoration for [Sleezebag] that Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) once displayed (and that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie now affixes whenever in the presence of “Mr. [Sleezebag]”), Kasich could well be simply angling for a VP spot with [Sleezebag], although he denies it. If so, he is delusional; no one can imagine Christie would have been so dense as to have agreed to be a courtier for [Sleezebag] without locking down a VP spot first.

The only reasonable explanation for Kasich sticking around then is that Kasich, always prickly and self-righteous, is enjoying the stage too much to get off. He has now found a forum (the presidential race) in which he can act out his own self-image, the most decent man in any room. To the rest of the political world this comes across as sanctimonious and self-indulgent.

We have no idea whether it is “better” for #NeverTrump forces if Kasich stays in or preferable if he leaves. Right now, however, he is conning voters into thinking he is a legitimate candidate. By his silence he is helping to bestow legitimacy on [Sleezebag]. If Kasich insists on sticking around for the attention, the least he can do is use some of that holier-than-thou energy to denounce the proto-fascist who will be on the stage with him tonight. Do not get your hopes up, however. This is all about Kasich’s personal vindication. And boy, it is not a pretty sight.

************************************************************************

Well, this is the first I've heard of a sloppy application in Pennsylvania. He and I were both born there. He lives in  a neighboring state now, it shouldn't have been that hard for him.

I'll bet my AC2 bank balance that Kasich will win in Ohio. He and [Sleezebag] are polling close, but that's one recent poll. If you go by just one recent poll, Kasich will win in Michigan. Kasich will be campaigning hard at home now. I guarantee you that he has a better organization on the ground than [Sleezebag] does. Since OH is a winner take all, essentially it's like a national general election. It's a two person race, and people can vote for one of those two if they want their vote to decide something, or they can vote for somebody else if they want to make a statement. When Perot ran for President, half of the people who favored him voted for a party man instead, for fear of throwing away their vote. Thing is, people who's first preference isn't The Leader are as much as 5 times more likely to choose Kasich over [Sleezebag].

I don't know what Kassich is thinking. Maybe it's that he's the best general election candidate, OR that he's the best swing/purple state candidate, OR has the best executive branch experience, and he's the last governor running, OR that he's the only guy in this race actually observing Reagan's 11th Commandment "Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican", and needs to stay in as a good influence in the debate, OR maybe he sees himself as a potential broker. The GOP convention is in Ohio this year. Lot's of guys would rather be a king-maker than a king.

I would agree that Christie probably handshook on [Sleezebag]'s VP spot. As a former prosecutor, he's quite the pit bull on the campaign trail and debate stage. Arguably, he took out Rubio. Or, Rubio took himself out by stepping in the gutter. Probably some of both.

Maybe it is personal, much about ego, but you know what? Everybody who wants that job is driven, all of their life. They have to have that focus to get that far.  They have to want it really bad, or they wouldn't subject themselves and their family to all of that abuse. They aren't quitters. They only quit when they run out of money or support. Kasich's support and money are still growing.

Kasich's best states are just ahead. There is no reason for him to quit, any more than The Leader.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 12:51:44 AM
And good luck to him - I'm not just being polite.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 02:29:38 AM
In other gleanings forms todays various articles-
Republican support fro the KKK is low to mid single digits 3-5%?
Support fro Mussolini is even less, at 1%.

So, in theory there may still be time to draw parallels between fascists and  The Leader's autocracy, or contrasts with The Constitution ( to which The President takes his oath of office ),

Also late deciders tend to be anti-[Sleezebag]. Rubio and Kasich are working their home states, and Rubio is closing the gap to single digits. [Sleezebag] is putting his ego on the line in Florida, to discredit Rubio, and put him away, but that kind of keeps The Leader in  Florida most of the time. If a guy can't win his home state in a four-way race, he doesn't have adequate support,  it's time to bow out. Rubio, Kasich, and Cruz have all said as much.

If both Rubio and Kasich win, [Sleezebag] has to get 70% of the delegates in the remaining contests in order to secure the nomination. That seems unlikely.

I've said for years that the political conventions are no longer newsworthy because they have become orchestrated infomercials and coronations. They are mostly of interest to journalists and people who have participated in the political process as  candidates and campaign workers. The party should pay for the coverage on the major networks.

This year the conventions  might be newsworthy and of interest to more than the usual suspects.
Who will the Republicans present as the winning team? Will Bernie and his supporters pull Hillary to the left ( in order to keep them involved and motivated) , just when she wants to move to the center to appeal to independents?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 02:39:12 AM
You know?  I think in her heart, she doesn't want to be in the center anyway, despite all she's come to stand for - and against The Leader, I doubt it would matter if she pulled left.  He doesn't leave people with a tough call, unless they hate her THAT much.  -ohmygod-

Christie, if the VP thing is true, is gone all-in; he's through if it doesn't pay off, but he's actually a great pitbull for the second spot, suited better than most to what-his-name...  -He's still done at the end of the year if he's not VP elect of the United States of 150 million moved to Canada...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 02:50:53 AM
And I wonder - does the Mass Media Group Mind have a plan to stop the Clown?  They made him, covering his sideshow without laughing, and they do this every time they need to to pretend there's a horse race and sell papers - but stupid as group minds are, there's incredible power not stupid enough to tolerate him, getting desperate about it.  I would love to pick Rupert Murdock's brain right now.  The mass media can make or destroy ANYONE if they want to enough to pull together and pound a spike into their monster...

And half of everyone -COUGHdemocratsCOUGH- is making their peace with voting for HRC late this year like nothing else could have forced them to, and gonna turn out, I promise you.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 03:35:15 AM
What appalls me the most is the potential choice between voting for either the Heir to the Oligarchy, or the Fascist Dictator....then having them say that my vote was part of a mandate.

That's not the country I was born in. That's a Ghostbusters style "Choose the form of The Destructor" false choice. Or maybe Wargames' - "Global Thermonuclear War. The only way to win is not to play." Over the top? Sure. Whatever war they start will likely be limited. The point is that the  choice remains unacceptable.

There's something about George H.W. Bush, and his son Jeb that I really like, and something about Barbara and W. that I can't stand. But as much as I like Jeb, I couldn't  vote for him for Federal office because Oligarchy.
So there's more here than I hate Hillary on my part.

This might be a year when I vote Libertarian again. Sure my vote won't matter, but at least it will express my philosophy. The analysts will decide if they want to make the effort to earn my vote next cycle.

On the bright side, I might get to cast a vote that matters in the Presidential Primary this year.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 03:50:50 AM
Your passion is powering eloquence, sir.

I have always felt like what you describe in the second paragraph.  But so be it - if I am to only cast protest votes, I will put my shoes on and set foot out of the house and cast protest votes.  As long as I'm stuck in this moronic existence, might as well.

(And agreed about the real George Bush - a much better man than his own side gave him credit for.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 05:35:43 AM
Thanks.
I guess I know more about political science than the real thing. It's a good distraction from the stuff I'm dealing with now. As an added complication, there was a torn aorta on my side of the family last Thursday, and today is the first day that there were signs of consciousness and recognition of family members.

Maybe I'll have time now to get back to that role of the USA in the world topic.

**************************************
New topic, cross thread- tying into that Religion and science thread.

Remember that bit Niven wrote called "Limits"?

I think that the trouble with Libertarian government is the relatively small practical limit. It's a Golden Rule / "do the right thing, even when nobody's watching" sort of system.  Works well enough in a small town,  where everybody knows you or your family or where you live or work, where your reputation stands for something. Manners are a good idea.

I think that wears thin above a thousand people. As you stop thinking of people as individuals/families/groups, and start thinking of "them". You feel responsible and accountable to each other, but not to "them". They can be cheated or taken advantage of, you simply take as much as you can, and move on if they find out.

We have the same issue on the internet. It's mostly about dealing with them. It's not all about people and peers and communities. We're usually half disguised, and we can easily disappear if we need to.
We don't really need their respect to get along and do business. We can alienate somebody and look elsewhere. We can be as selfish as we want to be. We can be banished, wait a while, and return as somebody else.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 01:12:54 PM
Yes, Draco Bar story.

Pure Libertarianism, much as pure Libertarians hate the comparison, is like communism in being workable only on paper - you'd need a different kind of people to make it work in practice on any great scale...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 03:57:10 PM
I just saw when the conventions are scheduled.  The Republican one is July 18-21 - the Democratic gathering is July 25-28.

Pretty surprising to see the Democrats going last - they usually blow that kind of tactical thinking.  And scheduling only a week apart enables them to step on the opposition publicity window pretty promptly.  Seriously; the Democrats never had a Lee Atwater, and have been consistently pathetic at this sort of thing in my political lifetime, so I'm a bit shocked to see them do something right at playing the game...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 04:45:50 PM
I was going to say "What about James Carvell?", but really he was more of one race at a time tactician than a grand strategist, even if he was capable of being just as nasty.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 04:55:41 PM
Sure.

The Republicans were always better at party discipline, pulling together, since Reagan, thanks to Atwater.  The thing with everyone reciting the same talking points - I've complained about that, and will again, but it's good strategy for them.

-See also everything I've ever said about statist social conservatives in bed with small government political conservatives for why that's gone away.  It used to always be the Democrats with the clown college of multitudes in the primaries, but that was before the Tea Party ruined everything - there's no hand on the wheel on the right anymore.  There still isn't on the left -or there'd be no outsider Sanders coming in making noise- but the Democrats have lucked out last two cycles.

I don't know whether Carvell would be good at that party discipline stuff, or would want to, given the power, but he's never had that power.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 08, 2016, 05:18:21 PM
So, is there any real traction outside of Utah for Romney putting on a superman cape and saving the day?  (it's all I hear locally)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 05:22:00 PM
I really don't think so.  None of the things that made him a very weak candidate last time have changed, and I believe the party, desperate as it's feeling, wouldn't look seriously at him any more than they'd consider just supporting HRC.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 07:36:49 PM
So, is there any real traction outside of Utah for Romney putting on a superman cape and saving the day?  (it's all I hear locally)

Fascinating.

Well, people will listen to him speak, but that's about it. He tends to be seen as the author of Obamacare. He's also the Loser who re-elected  Obama.

Theocons always say that losses are because the candidate wasn't enough of a Christian Conservative.

I saw some recent Romney poll results, and he was getting beaten badly.


Presidential as the guy may be, he's relegated to senior statesman. Well, maybe he'll be Ambassador Romney someday.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 08:18:04 PM
Quote
Florida’s Sun Sentinel: No GOP candidate worth endorsing
Yahoo News
Michael Walsh  Reporter  March 08, 2016



The Sun Sentinel, a major South Florida newspaper, is refusing to make an endorsement in the Republican presidential primary because “the kind of person who should be running is not in the race.”

In an editorial published Friday, the paper’s editorial board argues that businessman Donald [Sleezebag], Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz are unqualified to be president of the United States. Though Ohio Gov. John Kasich would be the best of the remaining candidates, the editorial continued, he does not have a chance of securing the party’s nod.

“We showed our cards a year ago, before the extraordinarily large field of Republican candidates shaped up,” the editorial reads. “We favored the adult in the room, Jeb Bush, a smart, experienced and principled conservative. But the nation wasn’t ready for another Bush, and our former governor wasn’t ready for the anti-establishment edge in today’s Twitter-fueled campaign era.”

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, an establishment favorite, raised over $150 million but failed to gain traction amid [Sleezebag]’s rambunctious rise to political prominence. Bush ultimately dropped out of the race in February.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/2ghlTaoldNINK4o.0uAqow--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg3MjtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/652ee0ad93be9b0a2b342dc6d07dfa6f9b17d604.jpg)
Sen. Marco Rubio speaking at a campaign rally in Sanford, Fla., on Monday. (Photo: Paul Sancya/AP)


The Sun Sentinel outlined the shortcomings of each contender left in the once overcrowded GOP field.

It said [Sleezebag] may be entertaining but lacks the experience and temperament to be commander in chief.

“[Sleezebag] would shake up Washington, no question,” the board wrote. “He might even unite Republicans and Democrats against a common enemy — himself. But given his smug, erratic, often petulant demeanor, do you really trust him with the keys to our nuclear arsenal?”

Rubio, it continued, has incredible political skills, knowledge of the issues beyond talking points and a great life story, but has almost no experience beyond running for office and doesn’t show up to work much.

“Because Rubio has failed to do his job as a senator, broken the promises he made to Floridians and backed away from his lone signature piece of legislation on immigration, we cannot endorse him for president,” the board wrote.


The Sun Sentinel said that Cruz is anti-Washington, makes decisions based on the Bible, does not compromise on social issues and was willing to shut down the government for 16 days, “America’s economy be damned.”

“Cruz scares us. He also should scare Republicans who want to win in November. Cruz has not earned your vote,” the board said.

As for Kasich, the paper notes he is a mainstream Republican who averages a 7.4-point lead over Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton in recent national polls and enjoys a 62 percent approval rating among Ohioans, the people he was elected to serve.

The Sun Sentinel says that he has not built a viable campaign in part because the GOP base is in rebellion mode.

“Perhaps in a more-rational election year, the Sun Sentinel would endorse John Kasich. But we can’t urge you to vote for someone who doesn’t have a chance of winning the nomination.”

The Sun Sentinel did not experience the same difficulty choosing a Democratic candidate, strongly endorsing Clinton over Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. The paper says she may be too cozy with Wall Street and too secretive but is also the most qualified candidate for the Oval Office in years.

The Florida primary will be held on March 15.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/floridas-sun-sentinel-no-gop-candidate-worth-163139142.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/floridas-sun-sentinel-no-gop-candidate-worth-163139142.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 08:44:22 PM
I read a nice piece about Bloomberg deciding not to run as an independent, because spoiler.  I've copy/paste if it didn't mention a certain someone so much but here: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bloomberg-didnt-want-to-be-spoiler-leading-to-180855743.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bloomberg-didnt-want-to-be-spoiler-leading-to-180855743.html)

I really liked the thing Katie Couric quoted him in the video as saying, about loving this country too much to do it...


(Rusty our exchange about Atwater, Carvell and party strategy makes me, once again, wish we could get Arnelos over here.  I like the cut of his jib, and calm, rational, insider/operative POV.  I'm sure on party discipline and Republican schizophrenia, his insights would be useful to figuring it all out...)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 08, 2016, 09:03:33 PM
So, is there any real traction outside of Utah for Romney putting on a superman cape and saving the day?  (it's all I hear locally)

Fascinating.

Well, people will listen to him speak, but that's about it. He tends to be seen as the author of Obamacare. He's also the Loser who re-elected  Obama.

Theocons always say that losses are because the candidate wasn't enough of a Christian Conservative.

I saw some recent Romney poll results, and he was getting beaten badly.


Presidential as the guy may be, he's relegated to senior statesman. Well, maybe he'll be Ambassador Romney someday.

There's all sorts of flutter on the local airwaves that he's actually quietly renewed whatever and reopened this and whatnot, to make it POSSIBLE to run. 

If he's not riding in with his cape, I'm curious if someone's not positioning him as a VP announcement, though I don't know if that would make any sense to any of them either. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 09:23:15 PM
It really sounds like it's more them wanting it to be true in Utah than anything else.

How does Romney spend his days when he's not being a politician, anyway?  I'm really asking.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 08, 2016, 10:13:17 PM
I would only be able to comment on Olympic crap. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 10:45:50 PM
I would not totally rule out the possibility of Mitt listening to bad/wishful advice.  It wouldn't be the first time.  But I'm pretty sure 100% confident the rest of the country wouldn't buy, after they never much liked him in the first place.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 08, 2016, 10:57:29 PM
I read a nice piece about Bloomberg deciding not to run as an independent, because spoiler.  I've copy/paste if it didn't mention a certain someone so much but here: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bloomberg-didnt-want-to-be-spoiler-leading-to-180855743.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bloomberg-didnt-want-to-be-spoiler-leading-to-180855743.html)

I really liked the thing Katie Couric quoted him in the video as saying, about loving this country too much to do it...


(Rusty our exchange about Atwater, Carvell and party strategy makes me, once again, wish we could get Arnelos over here.  I like the cut of his jib, and calm, rational, insider/operative POV.  I'm sure on party discipline and Republican schizophrenia, his insights would be useful to figuring it all out...)

1) Nice summation by the Florida newspaper editorial board.

2) I respect Bloomberg both for giving it serious consideration, and for putting country before ego. Bloomberg and I disagree on guns. I also tend to think of him as inept after that Hurricane Sandy debacle, when he diverted all of the generators, and the sanitation workers ( that volunteered to work on the weekend to help clear the streets),  to Central Park to prepare for the NY Marathon. Freezing temps, closed streets, people without power, and he's worried about the Marathon/ image, like Nero playing a fiddle.

3) Yeah, I like Arnelos, too, ( even if he is on the wrong side of Citizen's United, and doesn't know the difference between a person with a conscience and a corporation ;-)  )

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 08, 2016, 11:06:26 PM
1) Yes.

2) I've never said anything nice about him before; but four years ago in RL, I said of Mrs. Palin "She doesn't love me enough to recognize that she's in over her head and the wrong person for the job - and that, itself, also disqualifies her."

3) [winces]  That's sure not a minor thing to be wrong about...  He usually talks so much sense.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
3) I suspect that he draws a PAC paycheck sometimes, and discussing where your bread is buttered in public puts a person in a delicate position.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 12:13:24 AM
3) I immediately assumed the same thing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 12:50:26 AM
Today's gleanings-

A) Some analysts say Michigan is tailor-made for Bernie with it's high unemployment and industry that would benefit from his protectionist sympathies. Others say that it's too black for him, and that he's only done well in states with high concentrations of whites and Jews.

B) [Sleezebag] got called on his rally pledges, because they remind too many people of fascist salutes. He claims not to have seen a problem with raising an arm and pledging to vote for The Leader. He says that when he doesn't do it, the crowds ask for it.

C) Emily's List ( or some such women's group) is working on an anti-[Sleezebag] ad. Essentially it's an "in his own words"  piece. Subject matter: women. They find that Hillary is +40% with women vs. [Sleezebag], and they feel that this ad could double that. The [Sleezebag] spokeswoman countered that he has more women in positions of authority than Hillary has. So, she wasn't even trying to deny that [Sleezebag] has said some pretty offensive things on TV.

D) What's the top word people associate with Hillary? "Dishonest"
Today we learned that The Leader has been closing the gap, and that he won't carry an honesty advantage into the general election. 

E) A lot of people voted for Bush the Lesser rather than Kerry because they said W was the kind of guy they wanted to have a beer with. If that's a selection criteria for a substantial portion of the population...well, I can't imagine anybody wanting to do that with HRC, unless she had 3 or 4 as a head start to unwind.

F) I guess Rubio won in Puerto Rico. The GOP has delegates from all of the territorial islands.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 01:20:31 AM
E) I bet the drunker she got, the more uptight and volatile she'd get - she clearly prizes self control to a fault, and thus, overthinks everything.  People like that that bad get less fun drunk, usually.  Also? - retarded criterion.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 05:03:43 AM
Uh true. I usually say that drunk lets the real you out, so...

Where was I ? Primary results.

With the vote count in the 90s, they have called Michigan for Sanders,50% to 48% and Mississippi for Clinton 83% to 16%.

GOP Michigan
[Sleezebag] 37%
Kassich 24 %and Cruz 25% fighting for 2nd.
Rubio 9% a distant last place.

GOP Mississippi
[Sleezebag] 47%
Cruz   37%
Kasich 9%
Rubio  5%

GOP Idaho- 37% counted.
Cruz  42%
[Sleezebag] 29%
Rubio   18%
Kassich  7%

Sanders in Michigan is a big upset. His hall is empty. Apparently he didn't expect it.

Also, Michigan is an open primary state. Some Hilary supporters voted for [Sleezebag], thinking strategically for the general election. Some Republicans may have voted for Bernie for the same reason. Or maybe out of Hillary hatred and a desire to spend her money.

One of the analysts pointed out that it's starting to look like Hillary is strong in the red states ( which she won't carry in the fall anyway ) and Bernie is bringing it in the purple/swing states
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 06:53:24 AM
Yes, I think global trade is a good thing on the whole. It creates interconnectedness, and is a cause for peace. Our economy depends upon it. So do the Clintons.

Bernie and [Sleezebag] are strongly against it.  So too, apparently is much of America.
If the conventions/ super delegates  manage to deny one, will their supporters feel cheated and shift to the other outsider out of rage and frustration, bent on shaking things up?

Or will they get mad and go home?

I guess it's possible that they will remain politically engaged in their respective parties. I guess we'll have to see how nicely or ugly things play out.

**********************************************************************************
Here's something interesting-

Supposedly there was a CNN story that Rubio was going to drop out before his home state of Florida primary. That makes no sense to me, and the campaign vehemently denied it.

The thing is, according to the Rubio camp,  the Cruz campaign in Hawaii is supposed to have circulated a robocall announcing the news, as a dirty trick.

This sounds strangely familiar/similar to the dirty trick the Cruz campaign used so effectively against Ben Carson in the Iowa Caucus, for which [Sleezebag] calls Cruz "Lying Ted" .

My wife points out that as dirty tricks go, it would be the perfect one for the [Sleezebag] campaign, provided they could pull it off secretly. Take out Rubio and blame Cruz in one fell swoop.

************************************************************************

So far Hawaii looks like [Sleezebag], Cruz, Rubio and Kasich.
Rubio could finish the night without a single delegate. He's looking kinda weak right now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 01:08:06 PM
The proprietor of that very liberal popular culture blog I've mentioned following and sometimes commenting on has gone into adamant Bernie should quit mode...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 09, 2016, 01:56:02 PM
The proprietor of that very liberal popular culture blog I've mentioned following and sometimes commenting on has gone into adamant Bernie should quit mode...

I think it's fairly clear he's not going to WIN the nomination, outright, so I don't know why he stays in, necessarily.  (but I could say the same about a lot of the republicans)

More my lack of understanding the advantages of continuing a losing campaign just to make a point than anything else. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 02:10:24 PM
I believe I've already talked about my take on that; if, as I assume, he ran for President not expecting to win, but hoping for a Perot Effect -make some noise and get his issues out there and force the other candidates to treat them seriously- then the more delegates he turns up at the convention with, the better.  He can get some planks of the party platform and go home - or more likely endorse HRC and campaign for her, considering the alternative.

He's done well enough, considering, already that he's going to be a Very Important Man for the rest of his political career, rather then a Presidential Loser.  There's a fairly empty niche on the left of the Democratic party to step into as a leader...

-Also, I understand that his campaign funding is in good shape, and if I'm wrong and he ran thinking he could win - she could drop dead.  She could get caught with her girlfriend.  She might snap and poop on the stage in the middle of a speech.  Anything might happen, and he doesn't get to be President if he quits - why back off in the investment he's made now?

And I'd argue that he does her more good than harm just by being there and giving her someone to debate while the right's getting the lion's share of the coverage with freaks and clowns.  The interestingness balance is terribly in their favor as it is.  It would be worse without any hint of a horse race to hype on the left...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 04:38:49 PM
Yes, I think global trade is a good thing on the whole. It creates interconnectedness, and is a cause for peace. Our economy depends upon it. So do the Clintons.

Bernie and [Sleezebag] are strongly against it.  So too, apparently is much of America.
This dances up to something I had intended to talk about WRT free trade.  It's a diplomatic issue/tool and has profound national security implications.  Those are not simple subjects with simple answers, to say the least.

Free trade, you know, is a fairly modern phenomenon of having the tech and resources to transport goods from buyer to seller across the world, and it's currently utterly dependent on the Middle East not getting into a nuclear war or something.  If bicycles are essential to our way of life and all the bicycle manufacturing has gone to Mexico or Indonesia, the US has some considerable innate power over those places if it's both, because they come to depend on the money coming back, and one of those places has enormous leverage over us if only one place is supplying the bikes we must have.

Free trade gives both sides a lot of skin in the game motivating them to want peaceful relations.  Absolute free trade, leading to overspecialization, absent the threat of ending, has no diplomatic power and sets up a fragile system of interdependence that could be destroyed by any number of disasters, manmade and otherwise.  Absolute protectionism/embargo -Cuba, for instance; we haven't had any economic leverage with a strategically important neighbor since the late 50s- is not good a business strategy, to make ourselves what we can buy cheaper.

-We'll never be safe if we don't make some of our own bicycles, but never be rich if we spend too much making all our bikes.  And either extreme denies us diplomatic leverage as a nation...

(This is not even getting into centrally important issues of the dangers/instability of laissez-faire economics versus taxing and regulating big business clear out of the country.)

Even I, something of a labor radical who's not exaggerating a lot when I say the Bossmen want to make us all slaves (like the comedian says, minimum wage is an employer's way of saying "If we could pay you less, we would") admit that policies that make business and profit too much of a challenge to pursue are a fast rack to being a very poor nation.  Trickle-down economics are a lie, but so is straight socialism.

Somewhere in between is the best balance, surely.  Probably wise to lean towards the free trade side, but regulate the financial markets sensibly to promote stability - and work hard on keeping the big money out of politics, lest we stop even pretending not to be a plutocracy...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 05:27:40 PM
-Also, I understand that his campaign funding is in good shape, and if I'm wrong and he ran thinking he could win - she could drop dead.  She could get caught with her girlfriend.  She might snap and poop on the stage in the middle of a speech.  Anything might happen, and he doesn't get to be President if he quits - why back off in the investment he's made now?

And I'd argue that he does her more good than harm just by being there and giving her someone to debate while the right's getting the lion's share of the coverage with freaks and clowns.  The interestingness balance is terribly in their favor as it is.  It would be worse without any hint of a horse race to hype on the left...
Two thing to elaborate on here:

No, I don't think she has a girlfriend - I wouldn't die of shock, but I think she's actually in love with her (horrible) husband (who is going to make the best First Lady ever).

Sanders has run a REALLY impressively non-negative campaign against an opponent incredibly inviting of attack - he's quite inspirational to a largely-disaffected left, and he can very plausibly turn that energized base out to her advantage later.  All the pieces are right there to pick up and accomplish a lot of his goals and still fight whatever clown the right pukes up, very effectively, the Huckster being a terrifically negatively energizing figure.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 09, 2016, 05:41:33 PM
I've always viewed their continued marriage as one of convenience, to be honest.   

I wouldn't be shocked by anything on that front, and don't particularly care about any president's bedroom preferences.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 09, 2016, 06:33:24 PM
I'll try to find if the 60 Minutes interview light-falling incident is on YouTube later, not that it matters...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 06:40:38 PM
After I shut down for the night I learned that [Sleezebag] has two court cases ( one is about [Sleezebag] University ) in play with the potential for criminal indictments.

I was horrified by the thought that potentially, between now and inauguration day, either Clinton or [Sleezebag] or both could be indicted. Leaving us the other.... or else Sanders or Christie?

This is really no way to run a country. Am I supposed to trust in the fact that so far both have been good at bending the law without breaking it enough to get busted?

******************************************
WHY STAY IN A RACE YOU DON'T EXPECT TO WIN?

Yes. The Perot effect! You make the case convincingly, and you force results. In that case a balanced budget.  Too bad we didn't also adopt Perot's ideas for lobbyist reform, and for the pilot program approach to health care reforms.

In Bernie's case, assuming he's as sincere as he seems, there are a number of worthy objectives for staying in the race, even if he can't win.

1) Making the Democratic Party  FDR's party again. By changing the goals and ideals and adding young members.

2) Making the reversal of Citizen's United either by SCOTUS or constitutional amendment a party priority. In the long run, the current ruling makes politics about money rather than the will of the majority of the people.

3) Getting some daylight between Hillary and Wall Street. If you believe Wall Street is evil, you don't want your party's president involved with them.


4) Getting any of the following adopted as Democratic Party dogma- free college tuition, full black employment, $15/hour minimum wage, Medicare for all [EDITED TO ADD expanded Social Security and a $trillion in infrastructure spending ].


Dream the Impossible Dream!

Obviously, I don't Feel the Bern ( except for #2 ), but I can relate on the level of a desire to give the Republicans an ideological makeover.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 09, 2016, 08:18:51 PM
So, is there any real traction outside of Utah for Romney putting on a superman cape and saving the day?  (it's all I hear locally)

Fascinating.

Well, people will listen to him speak, but that's about it. He tends to be seen as the author of Obamacare. He's also the Loser who re-elected  Obama.

Theocons always say that losses are because the candidate wasn't enough of a Christian Conservative.

I saw some recent Romney poll results, and he was getting beaten badly.


Presidential as the guy may be, he's relegated to senior statesman. Well, maybe he'll be Ambassador Romney someday.

I forgot to mention -
There's the party split as to where to place the blame. Some blame the Christian Conservatives and their well publicized remarks, such as rape pregnancies being gifts from God as a millstone around Romney's neck.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 10, 2016, 02:09:45 AM
Quote
Quote from: Rusty Edge on Yesterday at 06:53:24 AM
Yes, I think global trade is a good thing on the whole. It creates interconnectedness, and is a cause for peace. Our economy depends upon it. So do the Clintons.

Bernie and [Sleezebag] are strongly against it.  So too, apparently is much of America.
Of course most people in the USA are against it we're the ones paying for it.
Its strip mining jobs and livelihoods for short term profits for a few.
Interconnectedness also means if one domino falls they all fall. Its one of the
reasons global trade was avoided in the past.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 02:32:28 AM
In Bernie's case, assuming he's as sincere as he seems
Rusty, in case bin has not given up on us, we seem to be in agreement that Sanders has run a classy campaign and strikes both us as, right or wrong, -see also our agreement in the other direction about Dr. Paul's personal qualities- a fellow of unusual good character for a politician running for President.

That is about the size of it, yes?  And as a conservative, do I read correctly that you find him to be a wild-haired (literally sometimes) radical, and didn't particularly WANT to find him to be a good man?  I'll certainly admit that I was surprised to discover Dr. Paul to be so admirable as a person of guts and integrity...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 10, 2016, 04:41:06 AM
You know I hate Hillary. I loathe her for her insincerity and dishonesty. I look at her and think of lawyer and politician jokes. I do think she's clever and competent, but that combination is rather Nixonian, and potentially problematic when somebody has  actual power. ( The Libertarians say that Hillary is really just another NeoCon on foreign policy. )

On the contrary, I find Bernie to be the most sincere person in the race since Ron Paul. I think he's too idealistic to be president. He's sort of the antithesis of Hillary.

I respect Bernie for his patriotism, integrity, and his sincerity, even when I think he's at his most impractical/delusional. Well...

Maybe we're circling back to what you said about Libertarians and Communists, those systems don't fit the people we have to work with. Both Bernie and myself are  outliers to allowable opinion in the American two party system, and I think it's great that he's getting a hearing. I think it's great when I can have discussions about his ideas with millennials. What do you think would happen if the minimum wage were raised to $15? Would you get more overtime? Would it be easier to get a job than it is now?

I just wish either of the Pauls were around to call out the Republicans the way that Bernie is trying to straighten out the Democrats.


Actually I think I rather enjoy Bernie being a good guy, just so that others can see Hillary for what she is when they make those side by side comparisons!

__________________________________________________

Anyway, I believe Bernie is as sincere as he seems.

I used that as a qualifier, because otherwise the explanation for staying in the race you can't realistically expect to win is the one I gave earlier...To become a presidential contender, it's something you have to want all of your life. Normal people don't subject themselves and their families to that kind of proctoscopy and abuse. They drop out because it isn't worth it. The people that want to be president are driven. They don't give up on their life's purpose as long as they have money and supporters to carry on, in hopes that luck will intervene. Well, really, by now they don't know what else to do with their life anyway.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 04:45:41 AM
"proctoscopy" - THAT'S brilliant, man.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 10, 2016, 04:52:53 AM
Thanks. It occurred to me years ago.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 08:26:41 PM
Quote
Clinton shows her vulnerable side: ‘I’m not a natural politician’
Yahoo News
Lisa Belkin  Chief National Correspondent  March 09, 2016


When asked why her “untrustworthy” rating is so high after 25 years in public office, Hillary Clinton winced. “It’s painful for me to hear that,” she said, perhaps remembering the 2008 New Hampshire debate in which she was asked almost exactly the same question, but with fewer years. “Well, that hurts my feelings,” she had said then.

The more voters get to know her, the more they like her, she answered, citing her popularity as senator after New Yorkers “saw me in action.” Then she got personal.

“I’m not a natural politician, in case you haven’t noticed, like my husband or President Obama,” she said. “So I have a view that I just have to do the best I can, get the results I can, make a difference in people’s lives.”

There was no follow-up question for Sen. Bernie Sanders on why voters might not like him.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/clinton-shows-her-vulnerable-side-im-not-a-035711888.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/clinton-shows-her-vulnerable-side-im-not-a-035711888.html)



That was sincere, or at least frankly honest.  She's bad at it.  Her gifts lay as an administrator, not a back-slapper, and maybe we've been too hard on her...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 08:39:42 PM
I decline to copy/paste this article that mentions a certain someone (and Cruz) too much, being about them, but very worth a peep and a think:
-vs-142622582.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/what-dc-republicans-will-do-if-its-[Sleezebag]-vs-142622582.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/what-dc-republicans-will-do-if-its-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 10, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
Yes, I'd heard that comment. When she's being genuine, I don't mind her.

Like the time she was telling a story about a radio station that used a barking dog as sort of a political fact checker, and how she wished there were a dog like that following the Republicans around. She seemed authentic and plausible, rather than calculating and cold, or strident. Wearing a smile because she was happy, not because she knew she was on camera.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 08:53:15 PM
I would be telling her that she's never going to win the 'beer with' criterion with anyone ever, so be the smartest guy in the room - and don't be afraid to just be a girldog once in a (long) while; think of the meme on the plane doing texting smack that you said "Somebody finally gets me".  -And don't be afraid to sound like a progressive when/if that's what you believe in your heart - devoted conservative Rusty Edge would like and think more of you for that.

Be as radical as you wanna be, Ma'am, and show us the REAL Hildog.  Nobody wants or likes a candidate who gets their opinions chosen by focus groups.

Focus groups suck, anyway - the format leads them to nitpick crap badly that they wouldn't in real life...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
This article also has someone in the title, and just no, but still very worth a read as the President nails it.  -gop-180119914.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-says-dont-blame-him-for-[Sleezebag]-gop-180119914.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-says-dont-blame-him-for-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 10, 2016, 10:22:14 PM
-Also copy/pasting and then cleaning up the formatting nice is a lot of work, and this one's long:
http://www.vogue.com/13393672/hillary-clinton-democratic-candidate-primary-2016-election/ (http://www.vogue.com/13393672/hillary-clinton-democratic-candidate-primary-2016-election/)

Rusty, read this one.  I'm not advocating because it's a profile piece by a fellow who, between the lines it's clear, likes her; but because she seems to know it and trusts him and relaxes in front of him, and it's full of details like her eating supper out of Tupperware in front of him during an interview in her campaign office at the end of the day.

I've never seen or read anything that came close, since she entered politics as herself after being First Lady, to feeling like THIS is the real Hildog, and it's possible to like her if only you knew her in private - and I urge reading not to advocate for her, but because I found it fascinating.

I was actually looking for her commenting on the texting meme when I stumbled over this...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 11, 2016, 01:01:30 AM
Hillary has said she wants to model her presidency on Angela Merkel.
For those who don't know she's the one who's invited the "refugees" into Europe.
Who are almost all male and are raping women en mass. She's literally invited a
foreign invading army in and offered them votes and welfare. Native Europeans
think Merkel is either insane or a traitor.
This is the woman Hilary wants to pattern her administration after.

Quote
Any particular foreign leader whose executive stewardship you admire and might want to emulate as president?

Well, I have to say that I highly admire Angela Merkel. I’ve known Angela since the 1990s, she and I actually appeared on a German TV show together. I have spent personal time with her. She is, I think, a really effective strong leader and really right now the major leader in Europe, not just in Germany. I admire her political skills and her principles, her strong work ethic. I just find her to be an incredibly important person in the world today and I look to her to see how she’s managed it.
Quote
http://time.com/4166539/hillary-clinton-woman-governing-campaigning/
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 01:36:56 AM
Protip: famous comedian engaging in SARCASM.  Thick, dripping, sarcasm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLNhPMQnWu4&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 11, 2016, 02:34:45 AM
You didn't read the article did you?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 02:49:30 AM
Did you click on all the links I posted today?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 11, 2016, 03:55:07 AM
Hillary has said she wants to model her presidency on Angela Merkel.
For those who don't know she's the one who's invited the "refugees" into Europe.

You do realize Angela Merkel has been the most powerful woman in the world for over a decade, was very widely held as fantastic prior to the refugee issue, was woman of the year in 2015, and at the time of the article you posted still had over 65% approval rating in Germany?  What, exactly, was there NOT to emulate at that point?  Moreover, answer the question in an interview focused on FEMALE leaders, show me a better answer. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2016, 04:19:02 AM
I would be telling her that she's never going to win the 'beer with' criterion with anyone ever, so be the smartest guy in the room - and don't be afraid to just be a girldog once in a (long) while; think of the meme on the plane doing texting smack that you said "Somebody finally gets me".  -And don't be afraid to sound like a progressive when/if that's what you believe in your heart - devoted conservative Rusty Edge would like and think more of you for that.

Be as radical as you wanna be, Ma'am, and show us the REAL Hildog.  Nobody wants or likes a candidate who gets their opinions chosen by focus groups.

Focus groups suck, anyway - the format leads them to nitpick crap badly that they wouldn't in real life...
 

Uh, yeah, pretty much true of any presidential contender. The caveat would be with regard to the constitution.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 02:39:15 PM
The caveat would be with regard to the constitution?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 06:32:44 PM
I have cast my protest vote.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 11, 2016, 06:49:32 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT_BuJAI70#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2016, 08:23:12 PM
The caveat would be with regard to the constitution?

Chris Christie had a lot of ideas about making America safe post 911. He was sincere, but he would have had to trample due process to do it. Kinda like Lincoln and habeas corpus.

Bernie is passionately against the Citizens United decision, but he knows it would have to be overturned by the US Supreme Court, or a Constitutional Amendment, and says so plainly.

Hillary seems to be passionately anti-gun, possibly sincerely so, but she has no respect for the 2nd Amendment. She promises change without regard to it.

Cruz knows the constitution, but have you heard his day 1 promise list? Overreach much?


Regardless of what the presidential contenders are saying, their oath of office and duty is to the constitution. Not to keeping America and Israel safe, pious, and prosperous, or whatever they might lead you to believe. They mostly need the support and cooperation of Congress, the states, and the people to make the rest happen.

Obama knows that very well...now.

So Sanders deserves my respect because of his sincerity and respect for the constitution.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 08:28:11 PM
;nod

-Momma said something I liked coming back from voting - that she's not wild about the socialism thing with Bernie, but it's just Christian for people to look out for each other.

Why don't you ever hear that from church people 'voting their principals'?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2016, 08:48:57 PM
After watching last night's Republican policy debate, I have to give the Daredevil his due.


Maybe he didn't articulate, or understand so well, but Donald [Sleezebag] has an important point.

NEGOTIATE! Sometimes you can negotiate instead of go to war. The neocons he shared the stage with talk about re-arming America for defense, and in the next breath their talking about how we out to be exerting military force here, there, and around the world.  ( without a word about a constitutional declaration of war for sending troops to die on foreign soil )

I've said [Sleezebag]'s budget proposals don't work... but wars are ridiculously expensive. What if we could stay out of them for 4 years? That would be a different kind of budget! One we might actually follow.

Sure, [Sleezebag]'s volatile personality and petty vindictiveness  worry me.  But at least he intends to pursue peace. There are huge savings to be had. Balancing a budget is one thing, following it is another. [Sleezebag] could actually deliver lower annual deficits than the others.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2016, 09:14:45 PM
;nod

-Momma said something I liked coming back from voting - that she's not wild about the socialism thing with Bernie, but it's just Christian for people to look out for each other.

Why don't you ever hear that from church people 'voting their principals'?

My brother and I used to say that if Jesus were around today, he's sound much more like McGovern and Humphrey than the Republican Christians. Except he's be saying that the church should be performing some of these functions rather than the government.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also used to say- "If I were the Tsar of America..." basically a way to preface remarks like the current contenders are making, about changing the way things are run. The Tsar premise was that you would be allowed autocratic authority to set things right without regard to constitutional and political realities, provided you would stake your life upon it.


Ted Cruz and Donald [Sleezebag] forget to say "If I were Tsar of America..." a LOT.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 09:18:09 PM
[poop] could actually deliver lower annual deficits than the others.
You were doing so well before the end.  National bankruptcy is not an option.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 11, 2016, 09:36:35 PM
I'm human.

Point is the Neocons' budget deals are meaningless if they can't avoid foreign adventures. They'll raise the debt ceiling to cover the costs. The domestic sacrifices will be in vain.

They'll use the war as an excuse to suppress critics, consolidate power, and award contracts to cronies. They always do.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 11, 2016, 09:39:37 PM
They always do.

Yeah; I'll never be able to prove that Junior was never going to submit balanced budgets even before the New York Thing happened, not having an alternate timeline viewer, but I'm pretty sure that crowd was into Keynesian economics...

(If I haven't said lately, I'm sure the TTHINY wasn't an inside job; they weren't ready.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 01:42:24 AM
Rubio campaign urges Ohio vote for Kasich. What? Why is that? (http://news.yahoo.com/rubio-campaign-urges-ohio-vote-kasich-why-223656889.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 02:50:34 AM
Well, the article covers it pretty well.
FLA and OH are large winner take all delegate states. In a sense, everything is on the line.
If [Sleezebag] sweeps, it's over. He'll have a safe lead.
If [Sleezebag] loses both, it likely lasts until the convention.

In short Rubio is desperate, and trying to keep hope alive. Hoping for a quid pro quo.

But it's true what he says- every vote not for Rubio in Florida or Kassich in Ohio is really a vote for [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 04:42:01 AM
I've predicted here that [Sleezebag] will win the nomination outright.

Political people and reporters  like the idea of an "Open" convention. It's also known as a brokered convention or a smoke filled room. The delegates get all kinds of attention and receptions lavished upon them. 

Suppose that happens. Each of the candidates or their surrogates will try to make their case-

[Sleezebag]- I got the most votes. I am a man of the people. I have infused the party with new blood. You can't deny the will of the people. Believe me, we can't have Lying Ted being thrown out by the courts on grounds of citizenship. The other two candidates put together didn't win enough states, delegates, or enough votes to be worthy of consideration. I deserve the nomination, because people love me, and believe me I'll make America great again!

Cruz- As many votes as [Sleezebag] got in the primaries, twice as many people voted against him!
 I'm the true conservative. I'm the champion of the people against the tyranny in Washington.
I'm the best friend Israel ever had. I will tear up the Iran Deal. I know the Constitution well enough to try cases before the Supreme Court. I wouldn't have wasted my time and money if I thought I was ineligible. When I'm president I'll defund, investigate, and God willing, prosecute Planned Parenthood. I'll abolish the IRS. I'll order the Justice department to protect religious liberty. I'll appoint justices just like Scalia. I'll repeal every word of Obamacare. I'll reverse every executive order Obama ever issued. I will defend the Mexican border. I will bomb ISIS into oblivion. I will destroy them utterly, branch and root, marrow and bone. On day one!

Rubio- Fine ideas, but we are destined to defeat if we're foolish enough to run one of the few, or should I say two,  candidates that are as hated as Hillary. IF the party has a real future we've got to be more that the party of Old white guys, Billionaires and Southern Evangelicals. We need to be able to reach out to youths and minorities. We need to be able to appeal to women and college graduates. We need somebody who knows the difference between friends and enemies, at home and abroad. We need a guy like me.

Kassich- Popularity is all well and good, but winning the presidency isn't a simple popularity contest. This isn't an election for class president. Delegates are great, but a national election is won with electors, and almost every state is winner take all, just like my home state of Ohio. It's not enough to win in the red states. To win the Whitehouse, we need to carry the Purple states. Those states with industrial cities and large rural populations clustered around the Great Lakes. There have been 6 presidents from Ohio. Why? Because Ohio is a microcosm of America, so a candidate learns to represent everybody, to respect everybody, and to earn everybody's respect. If you can govern there you can govern the nation, and I have the best record of any governor in the Great Recession. The GOP has never won the Whitehouse without winning Ohio, I've got the best head to head poll numbers against Hillary by far, and I'm the guy that can do it!

-------------------------------

If I'm wrong and the nominee hasn't been determined before the convention, The Leader will get a chance to demonstrate his highly acclaimed negotiation skills. Believe me!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 04:48:05 AM
Sharp.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 04:55:58 AM
Sharp.

Thanks. I spend too much time listening to these guys ramble.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on March 12, 2016, 02:07:05 PM
My brother and I used to say that if Jesus were around today, he's sound much more like McGovern and Humphrey than the Republican Christians. Except he's be saying that the church should be performing some of these functions rather than the government.

If Jesus suddenly appeared in America today, we would complain that he was an illegal immigrant stealing carpentry jobs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 05:15:49 PM
And arrest him for practicing medicine without a license.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 05:26:13 PM
I'm seeing a LOT of coverage of violence breaking out at Hog-calling contests allasudden, and the reporter lady who got manhandled by the campaign manager.  Does anyone know how unusual that actually is for a major polarizing presidential candidate?  I'm asking.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 06:31:42 PM
Quote
It’s Time to Support Real Family Values
June 17, 2015 | by Bernie Sanders

 

The right has claimed the mantle of “family values” for far too long. When my Republican colleagues use the term they’re usually talking about things like opposition to contraception, denying a woman’s right to choose, opposition to gay rights, and support for abstinence-only education.


Family values: let’s talk about what those words mean.

When a mother can’t spend time with her newborn child during the first weeks and months of life, that is not a family value.

When a husband can’t get time off from work to care for his cancer-stricken wife, that is not a family value.

When a mother is forced to send her sick child to school because she can’t afford to stay home, that is not a family value.

When parents and children can’t spend any time on vacation together during the course of an entire year, that is not a family value.

In fact, these things are an attack on everything the family stands for.

When it comes to supporting real family values, the United States lags behind virtually every major country on earth. We are the only advanced economy that doesn’t guarantee its workers some form of paid family leave, paid sick leave or paid vacation time.

Or, to put that another way: Workers and families in every other major industrialized country in the get a better deal than we do here in the United States.

That’s wrong. It’s a travesty. And it should be an embarrassment to anyone who claims to speak for family values in this country.


Time for parents and children

It’s an outrage that millions of women in this country are forced back to work after giving birth, simply because they don’t have the income to stay home with their newborn babies.

Virtually every psychologist who has studied this issue agrees that the first weeks and months of life are enormously important to a newborn’s emotional and intellectual development. It’s understood that and fathers should spend this time bonding with the new person they have brought into the world.

The Family and Medical Leave Act we signed into law in 1993 is inadequate for the task. Today, according to the Department of Labor, nearly eight out of ten workers who are eligible to take time off under this law cannot do so because they can’t afford it. Even worse, 40 percent of American workers aren’t even eligible for this unpaid leave.

In my view, every worker in America should be guaranteed at least twelve weeks of paid family and medical leave. That’s why I am a proud cosponsor of the FAMILY Act, introduced by Senator Gillibrand, which does just that. Under this measure, every employee would receive twelve weeks of paid family and medical leave: to take care of a baby, to help a family member who has been diagnosed with cancer or another serious medical condition, or to care for themselves if they become seriously ill.

This would be funded through an insurance program, like Social Security. Workers would pay into it with every paycheck, at the price of roughly one cup of coffee per week. There is no reason not to pass this bill now.


Sick leave for all

We must also make sure that workers in this country have paid sick leave. It is insane that low-wage workers for companies like McDonald’s must work when they are sick just because they can’t afford to stay home.

That’s bad for the workers – and it’s also a public health issue.

The Healthy Families Act, introduced by Sen. Patty Murray, would fix that. It would guarantee seven days of paid sick leave per year for American workers. It would benefit 43 million Americans who don’t have access to paid sick leave today. It would also establish a minimum standard for employers who already do offer sick leave.


We need a vacation

Millions of Americans are working longer hours for lower wages. They are overworked, underpaid, and under enormous stress. Today 85 percent of working men and 66 percent of working women are working more than 40 hours a week. Millions of people are working incredible hours – some with two or three jobs – just trying to care for themselves and their families.

That is why I have introduced legislation which would require employers to provide at least 10 days of paid vacation per year. This is already done in almost every country in the world. My proposal would allow workers to take two weeks of paid leave each year – to rest and recuperate, travel, visit loved ones, or simply spend time at home bonding with their families.

Companies like Virgin Group and Netflix have adopted generous paid vacation policies aimed at boosting productivity and increasing worker loyalty. But nearly one in four workers gets no paid vacation time at all.

Studies show that nine out of every ten Americans report that their happiest memories come from vacations. Vacations have been shown to reduce stress, strengthen family relationships, increase productivity, and even prevent illness.

American workers are being denied a benefit that workers in every other advanced economy already enjoy. Europe, Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand … we are the only nation that doesn’t require employers to provide at least 10 days of paid vacation time.

There is no reason for that. Our country is every bit as prosperous as theirs – and it is prosperous because the men and women of this country work so hard.

I’m not asking for the most generous vacation policy in the world. This is nothing like what they get in France, Austria or Belgium. But I intend to push for a standard which befits a great nation.

There is no reason not to pass this bill. It would benefit workers while also helping employers, the economy, and society as a whole.


Real family values

Last place is no place for America. It is time to join the rest of the industrialized world and live up to our ideals by ensuring that every worker in this country has access to paid family leave, paid sick time and paid vacations – just like they do in every other wealthy country on the planet.

The next time you hear a politician talking about “family values,” you may want to ask whether they support measures which really help American families. These bills will help families spend more time together, in greater happiness and security.

Those are values every family can believe in.
https://berniesanders.com/time-to-support-real-family-values/
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 08:24:28 PM
I'm seeing a LOT of coverage of violence breaking out at Hog-calling contests allasudden, and the reporter lady who got manhandled by the campaign manager.  Does anyone know how unusual that actually is for a major polarizing presidential candidate?  I'm asking.

I don't think it's the first time a reporter was manhandled. Isn't it the nature of reporters to seek access, and the nature of public figures to try to prevent it when they don't initiate it?  Those are the dynamics. The outcome was predictable in that atmosphere. The Leader sets the tone, just like the dirty tricks in the Cruz campaign. That said- the campaign manager should have been able to use his words instead of his hands to deal with a reporter. I hope he gets a criminal charge on his record/civil suit. Maybe The Leader will pull a Cruz move and fire him, and claim that's not the kind of person he is or campaign he is running. In the context of [Sleezebag]'s previous remarks to and  about women, it is the kind of campaign he is running. Same with regard to the protesters.

I was thinking about the protests. [Sleezebag] got something thrown at him at the last rally. Another was canceled. He was complaining about his right to free speech. The same guy who has a knee-jerk lawsuit threat to everybody who offers stinging public criticism. Respecting rights is a two-way street.

I don't know about comparisons with other political campaigns. I was at a Perot rally once. He didn't have Secret Service at the time. He did have private security. Texas Ranger types with hats, boots, and .45 long colts under their coats. They checked IDs and took a couple of people aside discretely. There wasn't any trouble. I take that back. There was a guy disrupting things during the speech, I forget which axe he was grinding, but it was out of context with the rally. Yelling about some third world genocide or something. Security showed him out quickly and quietly.

Certainly there were death threats, loose ammunition, etc. at Scott Walker protests, but those were essentially labor demonstrations, and get ugly by nature.

Near as I can recall, you'd have to go back to the war protests of the 1960s to find anything comparable at a series of political rallies.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 08:46:58 PM
You know, my point is that I suspect it's a (well-deserved) sandbag on The Pig; Dr. Frankenstein chasing his monster into the arctic, the Pig-Tenders slaughtering their Hogzilla by reporting the truth, but reporting it a heck of a lot harder than they would otherwise - it's of a piece with the Hitler comparisons that have popped up lately.  I'm not criticizing them for it, having wondered aloud a few days ago what that mass media group mind was going to do to stop their creation, just pointing out that this is the current tactic and they clearly think it gets a lot more traction than previous tries.

Like, the first five articles on the Yahoo Politics page -which always leaves out more than it includes and typically adds about an article a day- today are about that same thing, as if nothing else important happened yesterday...

-After all, a substantial portion of the incidents Pig's getting smeared with is stuff his Secret Service detail does - and you know they don't take orders from him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 09:07:29 PM
That family values speech was rather elegant.

I think it should become part of his stump speech. Maybe it is, but it's not getting news coverage. Oh, sure there are issues, ( such as Hey! maybe the reason millennials are working a couple of wait staff jobs plus another retail or service job is because Affordable care gave their employers unintentional incentives to reduce hours and hire more people, and forced them to work full time to cover their health insurance costs.) but the thrust of it is correct.

Two weeks paid vacation based upon average weekly earnings is reasonable. If they don't work very much, they won't get paid very much.

An insurance approach to medical leave? Isn't that what AFLAC offers? That should be a benchmark for the cost of the program.

Anyway, because I come from a large extended family, somebody is usually able to help out during the hospitalizations and medical recoveries. I see the value of it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 09:20:00 PM
Yah; gub'ment, really and true, is inherently sloppy and greedy and dehumanizingly treats people as statistics instead of people - but there's things that work best collectively for all that, and it's just Christian for people to look out for each other...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 12, 2016, 11:09:07 PM
Like this, the text in it's entirety. The actual piece has links and pictures to document some of the claims. -

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/donald-trumps-ideology-of-violence/ar-AAgHuPe?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=mailsignout (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/donald-trumps-ideology-of-violence/ar-AAgHuPe?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=mailsignout)


Donald [Sleezebag]'s ideology of violence   
Vox.com  by Ezra Klein  3 hrs ago

During a rally in St. Louis Friday, Donald [Sleezebag] lamented that "nobody wants to hurt each other anymore."

Yes, lamented.

The topic was protesters, and [Sleezebag]'s frustration was clear. "They're being politically correct the way they take them out," he sighed. "Protesters, they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore."

"Our country has to toughen up folks. We have to toughen up. These people are bringing us down. They are bringing us down. These people are so bad for our country, you have no idea."

This is more than an aside; this is the core of [Sleezebag]'s ideology. The protesters who interrupted his rally, the political correctness that kept the police from cracking their skulls, the press that takes the hippies' side — this is why America has stopped being great. We were strong, and we were tough, and we didn't take this kind of s--- from anybody. And now we are weak, and we are scared, and we take this kind of s--- from everybody


How is a country that can't shut down a protester going to out-negotiate the Chinese? How is a country that that is so afraid of hurt feelings going to crush ISIS?

"We better toughen up, we better smarten up, and we better stop with this political correctness because it’s driving us down the tubes," [Sleezebag] said.

Hours after that speech, 32 people were arrested and several were injured as [Sleezebag]'s supporters clashed with anti-[Sleezebag] protesters and police. That night, [Sleezebag] had to cancel a rally in Chicago for safety reasons.

Violence is scary. But violence-as-ideology is terrifying. And that's where [Sleezebag]'s campaign has gone.

"Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

On February 1st, [Sleezebag] made a promise to an angry crowd. You protect me, he said, and I'll protect you. "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

No one threw a tomato at that rally. But a few weeks later, Donald [Sleezebag] showed that he meant what he said — if you used force to protect him, he'd have your back.

[Sleezebag] was leaving a rally when Michelle Fields, a reporter for the [Sleezebag]-friendly Breitbart News, stepped forward to ask a question. Corey Lewandowski, Donald [Sleezebag]'s campaign manager, grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way. His grip was hard enough to leave bruises on her arm. The moment was witnessed by Ben Terris, a Washington Post reporter, and there's audio and video record of it.

There were simple ways [Sleezebag]'s campaign could have responded to this. Lewandowski could have apologized. He could have said Fields startled him, and he was protecting his candidate.


But this is the press we're talking about. "The most dishonest human beings on earth." No f------ way [Sleezebag] was going to back down to them.

"The accusation which has only been made in the media and never addressed directly with the campaign is entirely false," [Sleezebag]'s spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said in a statement.

"Michelle Fields is an attention seeker," tweeted Lewandowski.

"This was, in my opinion, made up," [Sleezebag] himself said. "Everybody said nothing happened. Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened."

Donald [Sleezebag] will pay your legal fees. He will believe your baldfaced lie. He is on your side against the protesters, the press, the losers who are bring America down. He knows things get rough sometimes. He's got your back.

"People who are following me are very passionate"

"The incidents are piling up," wrote Lucia Graves at the Guardian. "A Black Lives Matters protester was sucker-punched by a white bystander at a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A young black woman was surrounded and shoved aggressively by a number of individuals at a rally in Louisville, Kentucky. A black protester was tackled, then punched and kicked by a group of men as he curled up on the ground in Birmingham, Alabama. Immigration activists were shoved and stripped of their signs by a crowd in Richmond, Virginia. A Latino protester was knocked down and kicked by a [Sleezebag] supporter in Miami."

I would add another "incident" to Graves' list. Back in August, two young [Sleezebag] supporters, Scott and Steve Leader, were charged in the beating of a homeless Mexican man. They found him sleeping outside a subway station and began hitting him with a metal pole.

According to police, Scott Leader justified the assault by telling them, "Donald [Sleezebag] was right — all these illegals need to be deported."

Asked to react to the beating, [Sleezebag] said he had no knowledge of it, which would have been fine. But he didn't stop there. "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate," [Sleezebag] replied. "They love this country and they want this country to be great again."

"These are the people that are destroying our country"
The great mistake the media makes with Donald [Sleezebag] is to pretend he has no ideology — that he's just a celebrity, a carnival barker, a reality star.

As my colleague Matt Yglesias has written, [Sleezebag] does have an ideology. He does have an agenda. The core of Trumpism is "a revived and unapologetic American nationalism, which will stand for American interests abroad while defending the traditional conception of the American nation at home."

Like most nationalists, the emotional center of [Sleezebag]'s ideology is an Us vs. Them argument. "These are not the people who made our country great," [Sleezebag] told the crowd in St. Louis. "We're going to make it great again, but these are not the people. These are the people that are destroying our country."

The Us must somehow defeat the Them — and the stakes are high, the future of the greatest country the world has ever known depends on the outcome. This is why nationalistic, Us vs.Them appeals lend themselves so easily and naturally to violence.

This is what [Sleezebag] supporters hear at his rallies. They are told that America is no longer great. They are told who to blame. They are told that the reason these losers are dragging America down is we have become too politically correct, too scared, too weak, to stop them. They are told [Sleezebag] will pay their legal fees if they want to do what's necessary. "There used to be consequences," [Sleezebag] sighs. The crowd knows what he's asking. Make Consequences Real Again.

This is ugly, but it is coherent. What [Sleezebag] is offering is an explanation and a solution; an argument and an ideology. It is dangerous, and it is violent, but it is not confusing, and it is not unclear.

And this is why [Sleezebag] is something different and more dangerous in American life. He is a man with an evident appetite for suppressing dissent with violence, a man who believes America's problem is that it's too gentle to its dissidents. [Sleezebag] is making an argument for a politics backed by force, for a security service unleashed from "political correctness," for a country where protesting has consequences. The results are playing out before us, night after night, on our televisions.

If [Sleezebag] wins and this country goes down a dark path, we will never be able to say we didn't see it coming. We will never be able to say we weren't warned.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 12, 2016, 11:31:05 PM
Well, you know it's not like I'm DEFENDING him - more like, I want it to be true so much that I doubt my judgment in the face of the Mass Media Group Mind being so motivated to make a big deal of it - and I definitely don't trust IT.

HE doesn't get to say "The most dishonest human beings on earth" about ANYone, though. ;hypocrite
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 13, 2016, 12:16:00 AM
He who lives by the media dies by the media.

The Leader got a free pass on these sham press conferences. They should have stopped coverage, unless he was buying airtime, or holding a legitimate press conference.

But it started well before that. NBC dropped his show for his remarks about Mexicans. But as soon as he's running for president, he's the lead-off story every night on the news.  The network is having it both ways.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the first debate was held, the moderators  questioned The Leader's sincerity and loyalty as a Republican, then pressured him and the other candidates to pledge support to the eventual party nominee, precluding an end run in the fall as an independent/3rd party.

Now it's coming back to bite them. Candidates can keep their word, and remain loyal to a party who's marquee man is becoming a blatant nationalist autocrat. Or they can become oathbreakers.
They can't decide which is worse .

It's as if the candidates are crewing the Pequod, and the republicans find themselves  living on the Animal Farm.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 13, 2016, 05:09:23 PM
...Apparently nothing else interesting has happened, despite various candidate, no doubt, giving interviews on Sunday morning news shows.  It's up to six Hog-Calling Violence stories in a row topping the Yahoo Politics page...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on March 14, 2016, 12:36:17 AM
[Sleezebag] supporters drive me nuts.

I can't stand all this "will of the people" talk. Yes, I'd agree that it was a subversion of popular democracy if [Sleezebag] captured a majority (not just a plurality) of delegates and yet procedural arrangements were somehow made to ensure a brokered convention. But no, it is not subverting the popular will if people choose not to vote for [Sleezebag], or if other people choose to protest him. It's as if [Sleezebag]'s supporters can't accept just how polarizing their candidate actually is. It's like they think that the only evidence of independent thought is a vote for [Sleezebag].

I'm so tired of hearing them refer to a monolithic BLM movement, then casually lump it together with the rioters in Baltimore and Ferguson. And it really shows just how much racism is right under the hood when they complain that the [Sleezebag] protesters "don't care about their own lives" and should have been addressing the Chicago murder rate and black-on-black violence.

[Sleezebag] so clearly knows his crowd. His suggestion that he will defend McGraw is so obviously red meat to his supporters -- and a clear sign to everyone else, if we needed it, that he is, in fact, taking direct action to win the vote of bigots. It's the same strategy he followed when he hesitated to reject David Duke, which also tells us that he thinks that bigots will be a significant enough component in his electoral coalition to need special outreach.

All of this now boils down to ego. [Sleezebag] supporters might have first come to his camp because he spoke to issues like immigration and fair trade that were being ignored by the Establishment. They might have come because the GOP has, for years, over-promised and under-delivered. But I think they have stayed because Donald [Sleezebag] has communicated that they can now feel okay to hold views that the rest of us think are abhorrent. And they don't want to contemplate that they might be wrong after all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 12:41:59 AM
The Leader apparently has a safe 2 to 1 advantage over Rubio in FLA, and has moved his campaign to Ohio, where the tables have turned against him this week.

In order to get traction against Kassich again, [Sleezebag] is telling people "Believe me, Ohio is a disaster"
I don't think [Sleezebag] remembers his Dale Carnegie. I don't think people from the same party as the governor normally appreciate outsiders putting down their state. At least, not the Buckeyes I've met.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 03:37:12 PM
It would be seven Hog-Calling Violence stories in a row today, but someone snuck in a story about Kasich watching the Golf Channel on the road third; that one, I'm going to read...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 03:54:18 PM
Incidentally, there was a Hog-Calling 15 minutes down the road this morning, two hours ago if it started on time - I'm all "Please God; don't let my area make the national news tonight."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 06:47:10 PM
Quote
Quote from: Rusty Edge on Yesterday at 06:53:24 AM
Yes, I think global trade is a good thing on the whole. It creates interconnectedness, and is a cause for peace. Our economy depends upon it. So do the Clintons.

Bernie and [Sleezebag] are strongly against it.  So too, apparently is much of America.
Of course most people in the USA are against it we're the ones paying for it.
Its strip mining jobs and livelihoods for short term profits for a few.
Interconnectedness also means if one domino falls they all fall. Its one of the
reasons global trade was avoided in the past.

Well, most people are also perpetuating the system by buying Nikes, and shopping at WalMart and Target.

-but-it-wont-heres-why/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/03/14/this-new-revelation-should-cripple-donald-[Sleezebag]-but-it-wont-heres-why/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/03/14/this-new-revelation-should-cripple-donald-[Sleezebag) Some excerpts-

“Finding a company that made in America was never something that was specified.”

Today, Donald J. [Sleezebag] Collection shirts — as well as eye­glasses, perfume, cuff links and suits — are made in Bangladesh, China, Honduras and other low-wage countries.

[Sleezebag]’s GOP rivals and the Super PACs hoping to stop him have previously attacked [Sleezebag] for other similar revelations, declaring him a hypocrite and a phony who is conning working class voters by pretending to be on their side. But such attacks don’t appear to work. Why not?

The most likely explanation — beyond the most obvious one, which is that information like this is simply not getting through to Republican voters — may be that, in a perverse way, revelations like these actually bolster his message, rather than undercutting it. [Sleezebag]’s argument is that he has a unique grasp, via direct experience and participation, of all the ways in which our political and economic system is rigged to make it easier for people such as himself to fleece working Americans. This understanding of how the game really works positions him well to fix it. He has been in on the elites’ scam for decades, and now, having made a killing off of it, he’s here to put an end to it.

[Sleezebag] has made this argument explicitly, again and again and again, in multiple different ways. At the most recent GOP debate, [Sleezebag] effectively declared that he understood better than any other candidate that politicians are bought and paid for — because he has bought and paid for politicians himself! At the debate, [Sleezebag] also rebuffed criticism of his reliance on immigrant labor here and foreign labor abroad by arguing that “because nobody knows the system better than me…I’m the one that knows how to change it.” [Sleezebag] didn’t apologize for these things. Instead, he converted them into evidence that he understands how immigration and global trade rules are enabling people like himself to screw over workers, while his rivals don’t.

Now, as it turns out, [Sleezebag]’s actual tax plan delivers a huge windfall to top earners. And in many other ways, [Sleezebag] is scamming his supporters, as well: he’s exaggerating the impact of trade deals on the fortunes of American workers, and absurdly suggesting that his promise of carrying out mass deportations shows that he has the toughness necessary to crush the immigrant threat to their economic interests.

The point, though, is that voters who are prepared to buy into that larger story [Sleezebag] is telling — about the various ways in which our economic and political systems enable elites, immigrants, and shadowy foreign bureaucrats to screw over struggling Americans — probably won’t see it as a negative that [Sleezebag] himself profited massively off that system, and won’t see a problem with his argument that this uniquely equips him to blow it up. These are only the latest signs that he “tells it like it is.” For those who are already open to believing that [Sleezebag]’s tale shows that he has their backs, the final step of accepting that argument really isn’t all that big.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 06:57:57 PM
Time for someone to quote the passage from Mein Kampf about the power of the Big Lie...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 07:30:21 PM
Just listened to a Ron Paul interview. Potential side effects of the [Sleezebag] campaign-

#1) The destruction of the Republican Party, according to the "party establishment". - "I don't care"

#2) Every primary [Sleezebag] wins while claiming he wants a  more even-handed/ neutral position on Israel is a nail in our coffin, according t the Israeli Lobby- "I don't see what's wrong with that"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 07:31:24 PM
The quotes being Dr. Paul's response to the points?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 08:57:56 PM
Well, what he said according to how I remembered it. He said the Republicans were at their worst during one party rule. That he tended to see the candidates as statists and authoritarians, and therefore similar.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 09:06:49 PM
And not a big huge fan of Israel?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 09:54:59 PM
And not a big huge fan of Israel?

He didn't talk about them directly. Here's my sense of it-

Non-aggression is one of the most basic concepts of Libertarianism. If it's not a golden rule society it doesn't really work very well. Ron Paul is normally opposed to foreign wars. To that end, his worldview is about treating other countries fairly.

The Israeli Lobby ..and I'm drawing a distinction between the American PACs and the sovereign nation, because I think Paul does, too. Fairness doesn't satisfy the Israeli Lobby. They seem to think that everyone not for them is against them. The Israeli Lobby wants every candidate to kiss their ring. Those that don't get a bull's eye drawn upon them, and suffer attack ads. I believe Paul was on the receiving end of that when he ran for president.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 10:04:06 PM
Ah.  Gotcha.

-Not that any other advocacy group is much different than that...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 10:07:54 PM
True.

I might add that this is one of the problems I have with the whole Citizen's United system of PACs.
It lets powerful people ( and we don't even know if they're American ) have it both ways- secrecy and libel protection in their attempts to influence elections.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 10:11:36 PM
Funny thing - back before your time at WPC, a drunk German kid happened to make the point that Jews are very well-represented in finance and showbiz and some very powerful lines of work.

-I made the counterpoint "So?  They're a bunch of overachievers."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 11:21:49 PM
I am ecstatic to report that nothing of real interest happened at today's Hog Calling.

I'd have been embarrassed if 80 protesters had not shown up, but embarrassed if there'd been fighting. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 14, 2016, 11:32:48 PM
Funny thing - back before your time at WPC, a drunk German kid happened to make the point that Jews are very well-represented in finance and showbiz and some very powerful lines of work.

-I made the counterpoint "So?  They're a bunch of overachievers."


Funny.
I appreciate over-achieving doctors and medical scientists.

Just stumbled across a related story-
-sparked-unprecedented-crisis-among-jewish-republicans]http://www.theweek.com/articles/612214/how-donald-[Sleezebag]-sparked-unprecedented-crisis-among-jewish-republicans (http://www.theweek.com/articles/612214/how-donald-[Sleezebag)

It could have been easy to anticipate this predicament. At the Republican Jewish Coalition Presidential Forum in December, [Sleezebag] drew criticism for promoting anti-Semitic stereotypes while speaking to an audience of Jewish activists, many of them wealthy donors to the party. He suggested that they might not support him because he wouldn't take their campaign contributions. He called himself a "negotiator, like you." He said they were, like him, great dealmakers.

The speech, a characteristic [Sleezebag] mash-up of insult and purported flattery, at the time provoked a nervous discomfort in the audience, but little tangible opposition.

Even [Sleezebag]'s promise to use his negotiating skills to reach a "great" peace deal between the Israelis and Palestinians — a heresy in conservative pro-Israel circles — failed to produce a coherent anti-[Sleezebag] strategy from Republicans. The reception he receives at his scheduled speech before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) next week will be telling.


As his campaign has marched on, [Sleezebag] has become more brazen with his Islamophobia, his scapegoating of immigrants, and his promotion of "roughing up" protesters at his rallies, who are frequently black.

The [Sleezebag] campaign also has failed to explain how it gave press credentials to a white supremacist radio host to broadcast live from a rally in Tennessee. When confronted by his refusal to disavow support from the anti-Semitic former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke, [Sleezebag] said, "I don't like to disavow groups if I don't know who they are. I mean, you could have Federation of Jewish Philanthropies in groups." The Anti-Defamation League called [Sleezebag]'s statement apparently likening neo-Nazi groups and Jewish charities "obscene."

Jews do not make Hitler comparisons lightly, but increasingly [Sleezebag]'s rallies, at which he has deployed strongmen and incited followers to violence, are inviting them.

______________________

Anyway, the article goes on with [Sleezebag]'s responses, and how it is causing Cruz to become more pro-Israel.

 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 14, 2016, 11:43:21 PM
;no

Hard to BELIEVE how some people never learn, isn't it?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 15, 2016, 12:25:22 AM
Yeah. Who cares about history 'n news n' stuff, anyway?

I'm still blaming the press on this one. They turned a presidential race into entertainment coverage to boost their own ratings.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 12:35:36 AM
Oh yesindeedeedido.  Guilty as charged.

Hard to BELIEVE how some people never learn, isn't it?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 15, 2016, 01:32:56 AM
Quote
http://wtop.com/prince-william-county/2016/03/local-[Sleezebag]-supporter-says-shes-facing-harassment-vandalism/slide/1/

Local T rump supporter says she’s facing harassment, vandalism

Quote
WASHINGTON — Someone has stolen the Donald T rump signs from her yard, spray-painted her house with messages and a motorcyclist stopped to threaten her life.

But a Gainesville, Virginia, woman says that while she’s frightened and exhausted by the ordeal, she won’t be intimidated. Judy Beaty, 70, has put up more T rump yard signs.

She says she’s been told by Virginia State Police that they will provide additional security measures.

“I can’t even tell you how hard it is to deal with something like this.  I feel like I’m very violated, at this point, and very threatened,” says Beaty.

She awoke Wednesday morning to find the T rump signs gone and her neat, white house spray painted with the words “revolution” and “can you see the new world through the tear gas.”

She says she would be less frightened if the incident stopped there, but the threats have continued.

“I get all these nut cases riding by here going, ‘Feel the Bern,’ ‘[Expletive] the T rump signs.’ I had one guy, yesterday, telling me I was going to die,” Beaty says.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 15, 2016, 02:29:04 AM
Quote
http://wtop.com/prince-william-county/2016/03/local-[Sleezebag]-supporter-says-shes-facing-harassment-vandalism/slide/1/

Local T rump supporter says she’s facing harassment, vandalism

Quote
WASHINGTON — Someone has stolen the Donald T rump signs from her yard, spray-painted her house with messages and a motorcyclist stopped to threaten her life.

But a Gainesville, Virginia, woman says that while she’s frightened and exhausted by the ordeal, she won’t be intimidated. Judy Beaty, 70, has put up more T rump yard signs.

She says she’s been told by Virginia State Police that they will provide additional security measures.

“I can’t even tell you how hard it is to deal with something like this.  I feel like I’m very violated, at this point, and very threatened,” says Beaty.

She awoke Wednesday morning to find the T rump signs gone and her neat, white house spray painted with the words “revolution” and “can you see the new world through the tear gas.”

She says she would be less frightened if the incident stopped there, but the threats have continued.

“I get all these nut cases riding by here going, ‘Feel the Bern,’ ‘[Expletive] the T rump signs.’ I had one guy, yesterday, telling me I was going to die,” Beaty says.



This makes me sad. What kind of coward picks on a 70 year old woman?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 15, 2016, 01:02:30 PM
T Rump.  (I know, unintended oddity of the formatting)

I like...

Sign stealing is fairly standard practice around elections I believe.  The rest of it, however. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 15, 2016, 01:05:34 PM
Oh wait, I see why the T rump now. 

Buncle.  Not cool.  ;waiting
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 01:07:20 PM
Oh, I can undo it if it's a big deal.  Check the hovertext first, though.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 15, 2016, 01:19:29 PM
 :stop: Yeah.  Moderatering shouldn't auto-demean one particular view. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 01:22:27 PM
Not all views are born equal.  I'll take it down tonight.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on March 15, 2016, 01:24:04 PM
Especially because changing it to T rump prevents my browser from changing it to Drumpf.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 01:30:19 PM
T rump sounds like an overweight backup dancer to rapper The Braggadocious T.R.U.M.P.

Torrential
Racism's
Ultimate
Malicious
Purpose

-Sorta like ODB without as much looks, talent and good sense...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on March 15, 2016, 03:35:47 PM
T rump sounds like an overweight backup dancer to rapper The Braggadocious T.R.U.M.P.

Torrential
Racism's
Ultimate
Malicious
Purpose

-Sorta like ODB without as much looks, talent and good sense...
I wonder whether or not the above error of T rump originates from the manipulation of symbolic messages by BUncle. I know it likely originates from an error in formatting, but the error appears convenient because it only occurs with the word "[Sleezebag]."
Edit: Okay, The error definitely stems from BUncle's manipulation of communication symbols on this forum.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 03:41:49 PM
It's not an error; it's a deliberate circumvention -which is deeply frowned upon- that will look dumb after I dump the joke tonight.

I do not apologize for having a sense of humor, nor for having it peek out at the end of a day in which I spent hours on tedious admin housekeeping chores.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 08:54:13 PM
Ah.  Finally daylight on the Yahoo Politics page.

Quote
Win or lose, Bernie Sanders has changed Hillary Clinton
Liz Goodwin  Senior National Affairs Reporter  March 14, 2016



At the CNN Democratic debate in Flint, Mich., earlier this month, Bernie Sanders used his opening statement to call for the governor of Michigan to resign over the city’s lead crisis, a position Sanders staked out months ago.

“I believe the governor of [Michigan] should understand that his dereliction of duty was irresponsible. He should resign,” Sanders said.

When Hillary Clinton got her turn to open, she echoed Sanders’ stance for the first time.

“Amen to that,” she said. “I agree. The governor should resign or be recalled.”

This new position was a surprise to anyone who tuned in to the debate’s preshow, where Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that if the governor stepped down, it wouldn’t “make a difference in the everyday lives of the people” of Flint.

But the change shouldn’t have been too shocking, since Clinton has matched Sanders’ positions on a whole host of issues during the unexpectedly hard-fought Democratic contest between them — a tactic that has implications for the former secretary of state as she attempts to move past Sanders and position herself for the general election. Clinton calls Sanders a “single issue” candidate on the stump, but the 74-year-old senator from Vermont has pushed Clinton to the left on far more than Wall Street reform, his most high-profile campaign agenda.

“Bernie has had great success in getting Hillary Clinton to adopt his issues and his rhetoric during the course of this campaign,” Sanders’ chief strategist Tad Devine said after the Democratic debate in Miami last Wednesday. “Let’s talk about the [Trans-Pacific Partnership], for example, which she evolved from someone who praised it on the record 45 times and calling it the ‘gold standard’ of trade agreements to opposing it.”

Clinton says she changed her mind on the TPP after it evolved into a deal she couldn’t support. Her run against Sanders has put her in the awkward position of opposing free trade, when she has a long record of supporting trade deals. In the Miami debate, Clinton boasted that she “voted against the only multinational trade agreement that came before me when I was in the Senate.”

Devine also flagged the Keystone Pipeline, which Clinton initially supported and then later joined Sanders in opposing on environmental grounds. And then there’s Wall Street. Clinton has attempted to tap into the same populist anger that fuels Sanders’ campaign by talking tougher on big banks and America’s culture of corporate greed.

Clinton often reminds people that she called for better regulating of Wall Street starting at least in 2007, and that she’s not new to the issues of fighting income inequality and reining in corporate excess. But there’s no question that her rhetoric on the issue has sharpened in response to Sanders. After her victory in Nevada, Clinton delivered a tough message to “the men and women who run our country’s corporations.”

“If you cheat your employees, exploit consumers, pollute our environment, or rip off taxpayers, we’re going to hold you accountable,” she said. (Clinton added, however, that when CEOs contribute to the economy, she will stand with them.)

“I think that clearly she has responded to a lot of [Sanders’] statements and his focus, which moves her somewhat to the left. I don’t think there’s any question about that,” said Richard Riley, the former governor of South Carolina and education secretary under Bill Clinton. Riley is supporting Clinton.

“Saturday Night Live” recently spoofed this dynamic with a mock Clinton ad aimed at winning over Sanders’ young supporters. As the ad goes on, Clinton picks up more and more of Sanders’ verbal and physical tics. First, wire-rim glasses appear on her nose. Then, she’s in a dark blue suit, waving her hands next to her face and saying she’s “sick and tired of hearing about my own damn emails” in Sanders’ signature old-school Brooklyn accent.

“I’m whoever you want me to be, and I approve this message,” a physically transformed Clinton says at the end of the spoof.

To be fair, Sanders has also been forced to shift emphasis on certain policies by his opponent, particularly to court black and Latino voters, more natural constituencies for Clinton. His recent emphasis on criminal justice reform and Flint followed Clinton’s deeper commitment to those issues. Still, it is Sanders’ populist progressive challenge that is largely responsible for pushing the Democratic discourse to the left, even as the Republican candidates stake out positions further and further to the right.

In Miami, both candidates agreed they wanted to give all undocumented immigrants in the country citizenship, and both vowed to never deport children. Clinton said she didn’t want to deport any immigrants unless they were committing crimes or plotting terrorist attacks, insisting that she would not be as tough as the Obama administration on enforcing immigration law. Meanwhile, the Republican frontrunner supports mass deportation.

It’s conceivable that some of these Sanders-influenced positions could alienate more moderate Democrats or independents during the general election should Clinton beat Sanders (or that some Sanders supporters will not want to support Clinton even though she’s adopted some of his issues). But if Clinton faces off against Donald T rump, it’s likely that the controversial candidate will galvanize the left and center-left and soften the doubts of those lukewarm on Clinton. (Sixty percent of Americans have an unfavorable view of T rump, compared with 53 percent who don’t like Clinton, according to RealClearPolitics’ polling averages.)

And if she faces off against T rump, some of her more populist positions on trade could actually help her. “She probably would have had to move against free trade to a certain degree even without Sanders,” said Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. “The Republicans seem to be questioning trade policy.”

Several of Clinton’s surrogates said they do not agree that Sanders has pushed her to the left, and they insist that there’s no position she’s staked out that will hurt her during the general election.

“I think everything that she’s proposed will be seen rightly as squarely in the mainstream as what Americans think are the big problems, and that includes reining in Wall Street. It includes getting big money out of politics,” said David Brock, founder of the pro-Clinton Correct the Record PAC.

Clinton has also hugged Obama tightly in the primary, painting Sanders as a critic of the president. Obama remains extremely popular with Democrats, so embracing his policies should also help in a general election.

“I think her alignment with the president is in keeping with most Democrats’ alignment, and she’s certainly not going to put at risk her base,” said Connecticut Gov. Dan Malloy, a Clinton supporter. “I don’t think she’s been caused to move as far left as some people might assume.”

“Every poll that I’ve seen, position by position, her position has been the majority position,” Malloy said. “So why should she change that?”

Perhaps more important, a single, populist-fueled primary season is not enough to erase the Clintons’ brand as center-left Democrats. One of the reasons the “SNL” skit is funny is that no one actually believes in the “radical” Hillary in the ad.

“You could still categorize her as center-left. She’s in the center, always. She always has been,” Riley said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/win-or-lose-bernie-sanders-has-changed-hillary-155024964.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/win-or-lose-bernie-sanders-has-changed-hillary-155024964.html)



Rusty, you get spared a picture of her because they messed up and displayed the SNL video twice in place of the leading photo.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 09:03:13 PM
Quote
Is Ohio’s primary a presidential bellwether?
Yahoo Politics
Michael Walsh  Reporter  March 15, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/QzUh6EaqRbqbAAk_L52Oxw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/9f19c018d808cd90f75356ccd27738a4524d6bce.jpg)
Ohio Gov. John Kasich after voting in the primary. (Photo: Matt Rourke/AP)



We’ve heard it before: Republicans need to win Ohio if they want to move to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. In fact, the state’s governor, John Kasich, likes to cite this as a reason why Republicans should support his presidential candidacy, despite his having lost in every other state so far.

Kasich argued that Ohioans have a history of picking the country’s presidents because they reject extremism in both parties.

“Ohio’s status as the national bellwether is not a reputation, it’s a fact. No Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio. Ever,” his campaign website reads.

That has been the case since the Republican Party began in 1854. But what does that mean for this year’s election?

Eric Ostermeier, a research associate at the University of Minnesota and founder of Smart Politics, says there is a lot of data to suggest that the battleground state is the ultimate bellwether in the general election: It has the current longest “winning streak” for voting for the winning presidential candidate in the general election. Since 1964, in 13 consecutive cycles, the candidate who won Ohio also won the White House.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/pikg._XyJ_K71wPHlaJnow--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/3d9dd5223473636e6267f7a94158c251fc575747.jpg)
Kasich in Westerville, Ohio, after casting his ballot. Will he be the “favorite son” who wins the primary and then the presidency? (Photo: Matt Rourke/AP)


“That’s the eighth longest streak in U.S. history, and if they do so again in 2016, that will be tied for the third longest ever, at 14 in a row,” Ostermeier said in an interview with Yahoo News. “So it’s a very long streak, especially in the modern political era.”

But that does not necessarily translate to the primary on Tuesday.

“The way I hear candidates talking about this, they are sort of conflating carrying Ohio in the primary versus the general election,” Ostermeier said. “It’s not been the case that Ohio has been a perfect bellwether in picking the party’s nominee.”

But, he noted, it has been true in the modern primary era. Each of the past 11 GOP nominees did win the Buckeye State primary — from Richard Nixon in 1972 to Mitt Romney in 2012. There are eight other states where this is true.

“On the continuum, it’s been more of a bellwether than most states,” Ostermeier said, “but there are caveats.” Before the modern era, there are many examples where this was not the case.

In 1912, former President Teddy Roosevelt won Ohio but lost the Republican nomination to friend-turned-foe and then incumbent President William Howard Taft (who was from Ohio).

Several “favorite son” candidates won the Ohio primary but never won the nomination, such as Ohio Sen. Robert Taft in 1940, 1948 and 1952 and Ohio Gov. James Rhodes in 1964 and 1968.

“That’s a different era of politics, and primaries did not have the weight that they do now,” Ostermeier said. “But it’s fair to say that in the modern primary era, the winner of the Ohio Republican primary has been the nominee.”

Although, he pointed out, in several of those cycles — especially in the 1970s and 1980s — Ohio held its contests much later in the calendar year (in May or June), so much of the drama had already passed and the nominee was essentially known. It wasn’t until the 1996 cycle that Ohio’s primary was moved to March.

From 1912 until 2012, there have been 26 presidential primaries in Ohio, so it’s a fairly small sample size and the conditions behind these elections have changed, so it’s somewhat difficult to draw hard and fast conclusions about its predictive power.

To say that this year’s Republican primary race has been unusual would be an understatement. The overcrowded field prevented many campaigns that might have wooed voters in other years from gaining traction. And boisterous real estate magnate Donald T rump’s ascent to the top of the pack vastly changed the tone of the debates and media coverage. With all these elements converging, many prognosticators and top brass in the Republican Party have been left scratching their heads — and wondering whether the old rules, like the one about Ohio, will still hold true.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/is-ohios-primary-a-presidential-bellwether-184124853.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/is-ohios-primary-a-presidential-bellwether-184124853.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 15, 2016, 10:09:34 PM
Quote
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/14/[Sleezebag]-rises-national-support-rubio-falls-and-carso/
Quote
CLOSE MENU ×


T rump breaks 50% in national support for the first time

T rump breaks 50% in national support for the first time
Showing little sign of a "ceiling", Donald T rump has only grown in support with the exit of Ben Carson and Marco Rubio's collapse

Follow @YouGovUS on twitter and stay up to date with the latest news and results
 Follow
In the last two weeks, Republican frontrunner Donald T rump has won more delegates in primaries and caucuses, even while his opponents have launched new attacks and questions have been raised about his supporters.  The week’s Economist/YouGov Poll finds T rump still at the top of GOP voters’ preference with a wider lead, while Florida Senator Marco Rubio seems most damaged by the two weeks of attacks and counter-attacks.
8)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 15, 2016, 10:45:30 PM
Cough cough lol.
Speaking of manners, this is rude and makes you look unsophisticated.  No more sentences ending in "lol" - and any further smilie use that can be taken as gloating is right out, too.
Quote
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/03/14/[Sleezebag]-rises-national-support-rubio-falls-and-carso/
Quote
CLOSE MENU ×


T rump breaks 50% in national support for the first time

T rump breaks 50% in national support for the first time
Showing little sign of a "ceiling", Donald T rump has only grown in support with the exit of Ben Carson and Marco Rubio's collapse

Follow @YouGovUS on twitter and stay up to date with the latest news and results
 Follow
In the last two weeks, Republican frontrunner Donald T rump has won more delegates in primaries and caucuses, even while his opponents have launched new attacks and questions have been raised about his supporters.  The week’s Economist/YouGov Poll finds T rump still at the top of GOP voters’ preference with a wider lead, while Florida Senator Marco Rubio seems most damaged by the two weeks of attacks and counter-attacks.
8)
Moderator?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 16, 2016, 01:26:12 AM
Today's gleanings.

#1) Rubio is talking about Utah, regardless of whether he wins or loses his home state today. Apparently he refuses to quit if ( when ) he fails to win.

#2) Michigan Democratic Primary upset explained- Hillary has been shifting towards campaigning against [Sleezebag], and analysts have been saying her super delegates make her inevitable. Well, Sanders supporters feel the Bern and vote. Clinton supporters felt taken for granted, and had better stuff to do now that spring is here. Hillary blames defections to Kasich.

#3) Anecdotal evidence- Everybody my social media-millennial niece knows in Illinois who supports Bernie voted for him- by afternoon. I can tell you that from the perspective of a precinct worker, they're doing a great job. Form the analysts point of view- Black Lives Matter is a thing in Illinois, and not only has Sanders done a better job of showing concern for the issue, but Clinton has been campaigning with Rom Emanuel, who is held in contempt  regarding BLM.

#4) I was preparing and eating dinner, now I see that Marco is making his campaign suspension speech.

#5) Anecdotal- In FLA, we heard from a retired CEO who said that Hillary looks like the lesser of 3 evils. At least that socialist Sanders has principals. [Sleezebag] has ego. President [Sleezebag] will be changing the name to the "[Sleezebag] House". So they voted for Rubio as a protest.

I can see it now "[Sleezebag] Force 1" and the beltway renamed as the "Trumpway", because like The Donald, it's bigger than Washington.


#6) The Buckeye State. This is based upon what I heard and saw today, Donald [Sleezebag] has no chance in a general election. Why? Because Ohio is a bellwether in national elections. Based upon precinct, county, and Secretary of Ohio reports, there were unprecedented crossover votes. Where Republicans
normally comprised 7% of the registration, they represented 42% of the turnout. Independents were turning out and Democrats were crossing over in droves- knowing they would be classified by their state as Republicans for 4 years. Apparently they went strongly against [Sleezebag].

I don't know if it's as Kasich suggests, Ohioans don't like extremists, or as I suppose, Ohio is a microcosm of America, maybe both. What I saw was that Ohio rejected Donald [Sleezebag], which means he has no path to the presidency.

I know, events are moving faster than my fingers. My wife is doing taxes, and I keep getting interrupted to fuss with the printer.

Kasich is making his victory speech. Praising Rubio. ... Crap, Real Life calls again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 16, 2016, 01:29:56 AM
I am embarrassed to be from one of the stupid states; that's for sure...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 16, 2016, 01:39:26 AM
Today's gleanings.

#1) Rubio is talking about Utah, regardless of whether he wins or loses his home state today. Apparently he refuses to quit if ( when ) he fails to win.



I hear the poll numbers are something like 80% anti-[Sleezebag] here, to the point he won't even come here to try, so easy pickins for whoever opposes. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 16, 2016, 03:09:26 AM
Quote
Sanders Sends Vegan Thugs to Attack Peace-Loving Nazis
The New Yorker
By Andy Borowitz  March 14, 2016


(http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/borowitz-sanders-vegan-thugs-[Sleezebag].jpg)
Credit PHOTOGRAPH BY J. D. POOLEY / GETTY



CINCINNATI (The Borowitz Report)—Republican front-runner Donald T rump was crying foul on Monday after Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders allegedly dispatched an army of vegan thugs to attack a rally of peace-loving Nazis in Cincinnati.

According to T rump, he had begun to address a group of “orderly and civil Nazis” at a downtown arena when his audience was suddenly set upon by an unruly mob of angry vegans, many menacingly clad in Birkenstocks and sustainable garments.

The Sanders supporters, singing an alarmingly militant version of Simon & Garfunkel’s “America,” marched into the arena and began “intimidating and threatening” the Nazis, T rump said.

“Make no mistake about who is starting the violence at these rallies,” T rump said. “It’s the vegans.”

Carol Foyler, a Nazi from suburban Cincinnati, said that she feared for her life when one of the vegans “ripped a T rump sign” from her hands and “tried to recycle it.”

Harland Dorrinson, a Kentucky Nazi who drove to Ohio to hear T rump speak, said he would never have attended the rally if he had known “there would be troublemaking vegans there.”

“One of them tried to swing an NPR tote bag at my head,” the terrified Nazi said.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/sanders-sends-vegan-thugs-to-attack-peace-loving-nazis (http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/sanders-sends-vegan-thugs-to-attack-peace-loving-nazis)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 16, 2016, 03:12:41 PM
-signed-baseball-endorse-him-for-president/]http://nesn.com/2016/03/pete-rose-didnt-send-donald-[Sleezebag]-signed-baseball-endorse-him-for-president/ (http://nesn.com/2016/03/pete-rose-didnt-send-donald-[Sleezebag)

Quote
Donald [Sleezebag] is a fan of Pete Rose, but the love isn’t necessarily mutual.

Rose’s attorney, Ray Genco, told The Washington Post on Monday his client never sent the signed baseball of which [Sleezebag] boasted receiving the previous day. Genco added that Rose, an Ohio native and hero, did not endorse [Sleezebag]’s presidential candidacy ahead of Tuesday’s primary in the Buckeye State.

“We do not know how Mr. [Sleezebag] got the ball,” Genco said. “I can’t authenticate the ball from some Twitter picture.

“I can’t speak to how [Sleezebag] got the ball. Pete didn’t send it. I made that clear.”

Genco further clarified Rose’s stance on this year’s presidential election.

“Pete has made a point not to ‘endorse’ any particular presidential candidate,” Genco wrote in a letter to The Post later in the day. “Though he respects everyone who works hard for our country — any outlet that misinterpreted a signed baseball for an endorsement was wrong. Pete did not send any candidate a baseball or a note of endorsement.

“That said, through my discussions with Pete about this cycle, I’ve learned that he believes that who to vote for is a decision each voter should decide for him or herself. Pete knows and has impressed upon me that, above politics, it’s leadership and teamwork (that) make all the difference. Both the left and right are baseball fans — and it is those institutions and their people that make America exceptional.”

[Sleezebag] on Sunday shared a photo of a baseball, which appeared to bear Rose’s signature and the candidate’s campaign slogan. [Sleezebag]’s campaign declined to answer The Post’s questions about whether Rose actually sent him the ball, so we’ll have to take Genco at his word.

Rose is staying out of this one.


The pic I've seen, the 'message' looks nothing like the signature, handwriting wise. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 16, 2016, 03:14:11 PM
(http://cdnph.upi.com/sv/b/i/UPI-2061458096757/2016/1/14581006103482/Pete-Rose-did-not-endorse-Donald-[Sleezebag]-lawyer-says.jpg)

Quote
Shortly after [Sleezebag]'s tweet on Sunday evening, baseball fans began to question the authenticity of the ball, including making the case "Pete Rose will put anything on a ball for $75" one collector said.

In his own tweet, John Fischesser showed various other balls signed by Rose in a tongue-in-cheek manner that read, "I was the first man on the moon," or "Sorry I screwed up the economy."

FiveThirtyEight.com noted Rose has also written things like "Sorry I shot JFK" and "Sorry I broke up the Beatles."


Guess the handwriting matches his other signatures...  ::) 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: vonbach on March 16, 2016, 05:11:20 PM
Quote
Sanders Sends Vegan Thugs

Given that the track record of the anti-fa types include thirty on one gang attacks, getting you fired from your job,
attacking your wife and kids and burning down peoples houses this isn't funny at all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: BU Admin on March 16, 2016, 06:17:05 PM
von, it turns out the moderator had your back on the gloating smilies issue - but after extensive discussion, we agree that the whole of your actions in Recreation Commons are an ongoing problem that shows absolutely no sign of letting up, and must stop.

I appreciate that you seem to have never intended to grief the rest of us, but a headache the bulk of your posting in this folder has been, and seems certain to continue to be.  If it was as simple as not agreeing with your opinions, you'd have been perma'd by September -after months of trying to persuade you to adopt a more diplomatic style, more fitting to the room and the culture here- but this can't be allowed to go on.  (Not least for my own bad behavior while flailing around trying to find the best response, some of which does make me ashamed.)

With regret -seriously- I'm taking the gentlest measure I can think of to put an end to it; no more posting by you in Recreation Commons.

I really do regret that it's come to this.  I love what you've contributed in the on topic areas, including Other Games, and hope you'll see fit to continue with that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 16, 2016, 08:07:29 PM
Quote
What’s next for Marco Rubio?
Yahoo Politics
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  March 15, 2016



MIAMI — The big question facing Marco Rubio is not what he does next but how he chooses to do it, based on the lessons he draws from his defeat.

Rubio, whose U.S. Senate term ends in January and whose bid for the White House splintered on the shoals of his home state Tuesday night, could run for Florida governor in 2018. He could leave politics for a time, go into business and make some money, or start a nonprofit and then run for president again in 2020. But it is hard for many to see him fading altogether from the political scene.

“It is not God’s plan that I be president in 2016, or maybe ever,” Rubio said in his concession speech here Tuesday night. His use of the word “maybe” was a clear indication that, already, 2020 is on his mind.

Assuming his time in public life is not at an end, the dilemma facing the 44-year-old, still-baby-faced politician is who he chooses to become after his bruising experience in the time of [Sleezebag].

Does he retain the hopeful, optimistic tone and message that facilitated his rise to national office in 2010? Or does he try to somehow chase the worship of celebrity and the rage in the electorate that has been exposed, and encouraged, by Republican frontrunner Donald [Sleezebag]?

“I do worry that he learns the wrong lessons from this cycle, and thinks he lost because he wasn’t angry or insane enough,” said Steve Schale, a top Democratic operative in Florida who has admired Rubio’s political skills as a member of the opposition party.

“If he learns the wrong lessons, he’ll go off and do crazy, insane things for the next few years, and that won’t end well,” Schale said.

Schale’s advice could be self-serving — he’s close to one Democrat who may run for governor herself in 2018, Rep. Gwen Graham — but his recommendation for Rubio would be to not run in 2018, and to go into business instead.

“Go keep your head down and do something outside of politics,” Schale said. “In the modern world, you don’t need a political platform to succeed in politics. He’s a young and talented guy, and success in the real world would allow him to mount a comeback at almost any time.”

There is some logic to that argument. Certainly in this election, any whiff of time spent in elected office has been politically poisonous. [Sleezebag] had nearly universal name ID with the electorate due to his years in reality TV and before that, from his life as a New York businessman who dabbled in the world of sports entertainment.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/N4B3pxmKjEyT83Qtsfy3JQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg1NDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/ffc19897db19fc70242615e99874c93377c2613d.jpg)
Marco Rubio announces the suspension of his campaign during a rally in Miami on Tuesday. (Photo: Carlo Allegri/Reuters)


[Sleezebag] has made a career of courting controversy. Rubio, if he wanted, could dive headfirst into the world of celebrity. That is the route to take if the lesson of 2016 is that the best route to political success is to copy the [Sleezebag] model — that all publicity is good publicity, shame is passé, and thinking through how you might govern before you rouse passions is for losers.

Of course, it’s possible Rubio already learned his lesson about attempting this, having tried to beat [Sleezebag] at his own insult game in the last month, only to overstep and have it backfire.

Another interpretation of Rubio’s humiliation is that voters just decided he needed to slow down and grow up a little, or maybe more than a little. He’s been in a hurry his entire adult life, and his impatience to get to the next level of political power has led Rubio to leave friends and allies in the dust. Many of the pre-defeat obituaries on Rubio’s career during the last week suggested that he had forgotten where he came from.

“I don’t think the lesson here is that he wasn’t Donald [Sleezebag],” said Alex Castellanos, a Cuban-born Republican operative who has advised numerous presidential candidates. “The lesson for him is, one, that it wasn’t his time. And that in an uncertain moment, people wanted strength and experience.

“If he goes out into the real world and enjoys business success or becomes governor and actually runs something, that would position him for success,” said Castellanos.

Rubio was told by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and by 2008 GOP nominee Sen. John McCain to wait his turn. And Rubio mocked that advice often on the campaign trail.

“This is not a time for waiting,” Rubio said. He continued to ridicule “elites” in his concession speech Tuesday.

“There are millions of people in this country that are tired of being looked down upon. Tired of being told by these self-proclaimed elitists that they don’t know what they are talking about and they need to instead listen to the so-called smart people,” Rubio said.

“I’ve battled my whole life against the so-called elites, the people who think that, you know, I needed to wait my turn or wait in line or it wasn’t our chance or wasn’t our time. So, I understand all of these frustrations,” he said.

But the voters spoke loud and clear. Out of 32 primaries and caucuses, Rubio won only three. And a longtime associate of Rubio’s said Tuesday as the polls were closing that there are some hard truths in that fact.

“He can’t try to please everyone,” said Al Cardenas, a longtime fixture in Florida Republican politics who brought a young Rubio into his law firm in the mid-’90s.

Cardenas pointed to the 2013 immigration fight as one of the most damaging periods in Rubio’s career, not because he backed a comprehensive bill, but because he cut and ran, leaving others in the lurch. As I wrote with Andrew Romano a year ago, Rubio panicked.

“He was a proud promoter of that bill. He enlisted myself and a number of other leaders to get behind him, put their political capital on the table,” Cardenas told me over a patchy phone line late Tuesday. “And you can’t just leave by yourself and leave everybody else behind and to their own devices.

“People don’t mind going down fighting, but they do mind going down fighting without the fellow who brought them to the dance to begin with,” Cardenas said.

Going forward, Cardenas said, Rubio “needs to stand his ground on issues of importance more often, although there is a short-term price to be paid.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cp03i8QHfW8UoazacLrYsg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg2NztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/95f412c3b28d25a467cb99044d31160647f52940.jpg)
Rubio gets a hug from his family after a primary night rally Tuesday in Miami. (Photo: Angel Valentin/Getty Images)


In addition, Rubio developed a reputation over the years for giving short shrift to the hard work of legislating, another sign of his impatience. Cardenas also said this hurt Rubio’s ability to win over voters in his home state.

“He’s got to work harder at a larger group of dependable supporters on the electorate side, not just the donor base. That takes a lot of hard work, collegiality, and it takes showing up,” Cardenas said.

The challenge in all this for Rubio is that he has not settled on a political identity. He has dabbled here and flitted there, leaving voters with the impression he lacks a true center.

In his speech Tuesday, Rubio hit some of the notes that are part of his core message. At the heart of it was an attempt to give fuller voice to the frustrations of everyday Americans, but moving from that place of empathy to a place of hope.

“America is in the middle of a real political storm, a real tsunami. And, we should have seen this coming. Look, people are angry, and people are very frustrated,” he said.

“I know that we are living through this extraordinary economic transformation that is really disruptive in people’s lives. Machines are replacing them, their pay is not enough. I know it’s disruptive. But I also know this new economy has incredible opportunity,” he said.

Rubio seemed to sense that he had not worked hard enough to voice the frustrations of many American voters. Any politician who hopes to inspire anguished voters must first of all convince them that he understands them, and that he hears them.

His appeal to optimism summoned the nation’s history and heritage.

“We are the descendants of pilgrims. We are the descendants of settlers. We are the descendants of men and women that headed westward in the Great Plains not knowing what awaited them,” Rubio said. “We are the descendants of slaves who overcame that horrible institution to stake their claim in the American Dream. We are the descendants of immigrants and exiles who knew and believed that they were destined for more, and that there was only one place on Earth where that was possible.

“This is who we are, and let us fight to ensure that this is who we remain. For if we lose that about our country, we will still be rich and we will still be powerful, but we will no longer be special,” he said.

These were just the first soundings of any coherent message Rubio might attempt to reimagine.

Defeats and setbacks lead to times of reflection, and Rubio will now have plenty of time for that. He can use it to engage in political calculus and strategy. Or he can look inward, acknowledge his weaknesses as a candidate and as a person, and by so doing, begin the process of overcoming them.

At the conclusion of his speech Tuesday, Rubio said: “I will continue every single day to search for ways for me to repay some of this extraordinary debt that I owe this great country.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/whats-next-for-marco-rubio-032224287.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/whats-next-for-marco-rubio-032224287.html)



As I already said, you could have a real future, Senator; you impress.  But it was never about waiting your turn, but about not coming to me, hat in hand, asking for my vote for you to be president before you've gained non-pathetic levels of experience and qualification for the job.  Pull a hitch as governor of a state, and at least grab up an open House seat afterwards and do the job for the entire term.  Don't come back until you've done at least that much, young man, and stop wasting everyone's time.  [slams door in face]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 16, 2016, 08:26:12 PM
Sorry Rusty...

Quote
A big night for Clinton, as she sweeps all five states
Yahoo Politics
Hunter Walker and Liz Goodwin  March 15, 2016



WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — Tuesday was always supposed to be one of the most important nights in the Democratic presidential primary race, but for Hillary Clinton, it was even bigger than she and her team expected.

Clinton swept the night, winning Ohio, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina, and maintaining a narrow lead in Missouri, which is so close that the losing candidates are allowed to request a recount. The victories put her firmly on course to defeat her primary rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who had hoped to upset her in at least one of those Midwestern states. As the results were announced on Tuesday evening, Clinton took the stage before a boisterous crowd of supporters here and seemed to pivot toward the Republican frontrunner, Donald T rump, who also won in Florida.

“We are moving closer to securing the Democratic Party nomination and winning this election in November!” Clinton declared.

Clinton came into the presidential race as the overwhelming frontrunner for her party’s nomination. After faltering in the early states, she began to pull ahead, with a massive victory in South Carolina on Feb. 27. She followed that win with a string of victories on Super Tuesday, March 1. Those wins had a campaign source predicting to Yahoo News that Clinton’s delegate lead over Sanders would be “effectively insurmountable” once this evening’s votes were counted. Sanders’ team also knew this evening’s numbers would be crucial, and in early strategy sessions, they cited March 15 as a turning point, after which they would know whether or not his underdog bid was truly viable.

It looked as if Sanders might prove the Clinton campaign’s bullish prediction wrong after he won a stunning upset in Michigan on March 8, but Clinton’s victories on Tuesday helped her stop Sanders’ momentum and establish a seemingly unbeatable lead.

Though Clinton was expected to win the primaries in North Carolina and Florida on Tuesday, polls showed her potentially losing in Ohio, Arizona, Missouri and Illinois. Even if Sanders had won all of the states that were in play on Tuesday, he would still have faced an uphill battle. However, by taking Ohio and Illinois, Clinton definitively pulled ahead.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Ej2OuYmc6hn39yoBqBJdOg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg0ODtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/6a22c371a11961cbe6d65b0ea65f7b404fa4fd06.jpg)
Hillary Clinton greets supporters at the Palm Beach County Convention Center after winning the Ohio, Florida and North Carolina primaries on Tuesday. (Photo: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)


Though the results in Arizona, Missouri and Illinois still had not been projected at the time she spoke, Clinton pointed out that her trio of victories had allowed her campaign to “add to our delegate lead to roughly 300.”

“I’ll tell you, this is another Super Tuesday!” Clinton said.

Her lead only grew as the night wore on.

After congratulating Sanders “for the vigorous campaign he’s waging,” Clinton turned to T rump, framing the election as “one of the most consequential campaigns of our lifetimes.” She specifically criticized several key aspects of his platform, including his positions on immigration and waterboarding.

“When we hear a candidate for president call for rounding up 12 million immigrants, banning all Muslims from entering the United States, and he embraces torture, that doesn’t make him strong, it makes him wrong!” Clinton said. “We should be breaking down barriers, not building walls.”

Clinton went on to directly invoke T rump and take a shot at his campaign slogan, “Make American Great Again.”

“To be great, we can’t be small, we can’t lose what made America great in the first place,“ said Clinton, adding, “And this isn’t just about Donald T rump, all of us have to do our part.”

Sanders took the stage shortly after Clinton’s appearance in Florida and addressed more than 7,000 of his cheering supporters in a convention center in Phoenix with his usual stump speech. The 74-year-old senator mentioned raising the minimum wage, getting money out of politics, fixing free trade deals and reforming the criminal justice system, among other typical stump-speech issues.

What Sanders didn’t mention were the five states that voted in the Democratic primaries Tuesday night, and what the results meant for his viability as a candidate. This was in contrast to Sanders’ election night appearance on Super Tuesday, when he explicitly downplayed his mixed showing and reassured his supporters that he would take the fight to “every” state. In contrast with most election night gatherings, there were no TVs showing primary results in Phoenix, so Sanders’ supporters were not shown Clinton’s wins racking up in the background as the evening progressed. Arizona’s Democrats vote next Tuesday, and Sanders is expected to do well in the state.

“The reason we have done as well as we have, the reason we have defied all expectations, is that we are doing something very radical in American politics: We are telling the truth!” Sanders said. No major cable network carried his speech, which coincided with Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s remarks and later, as Sanders continued speaking, with Donald T rump’s victory speech. The senator urged Arizonans to show up at the polls for him next week at the end of his address.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/xO_eIxFMzY7bLi6QYJ2AFw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTgxMztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/20d8d563830789597aaeeb29b91d65366fca38a9.jpg)
Sen. Bernie Sanders speaks at a campaign rally in Phoenix. (Photo: Nancy Wiechec/Reuters)


Sanders’ top advisers have stressed that the senator will continue his well-funded campaign until the end of the primaries, and last week’s surprise win in Michigan appeared to breathe new life into Sanders’ bid. But Clinton’s sweep significantly dims his chances of becoming the Democratic nominee. Sanders had hammered Clinton on her past support for free-trade deals, but she still pulled out a win in Ohio and Illinois.

Sanders’ top aides did not come out to speak to reporters at his event in Phoenix. However, in Florida, the Clinton campaign’s communications director, Jen Palmieri, took questions shortly after Clinton’s speech. Palmieri noted she had just “bid farewell to a very happy Hillary Clinton.” Palmieri also said Clinton and Sanders had not yet spoken to each other.

Palmieri spoke before results were announced in Illinois and Missouri. She acknowledged those states would be “close” and could go either way, but argued that the night still sent a decisive message.

“Sen. Sanders spent over $7 million in the last week running pretty negative ads … stepped up rhetoric attacking Hillary Clinton,” Palmieri said. “I think the results today prove that approach is rejected by the voters. They’re looking for someone who is offering solutions, particularly on the economy, not just talking about the problem.”

Palmieri also addressed the fact that several of the upcoming contests in the Democratic primary, particularly in states that hold caucuses, could favor Sanders. Still, Palmieri pointed to Clinton’s steadily increasing lead.

“Our delegate lead is very high, I would say, so we understand that there are a lot of contests … that we have yet to face, and we will face them, but … it’s going to be very hard to overtake her,” Palmieri said, adding, “And I think that the results tonight, even if there are contests that we don’t do well in, will continue to speak for themselves.“

Though Palmieri expressed confidence that Clinton will secure the nomination, she repeatedly stressed that the campaign remains “focused” on the Democratic primary rather than the general election. Multiple reporters asked if Clinton or her allies would begin pressuring Sanders to drop out. Palmieri deflected the question several times by saying it was not “up to” Clinton’s staff to make that decision.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IOdLAjvZWMyuwLP65dVO.w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTkyODtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/a6dcc0f15cfcb5b6111a03483a9f56b3763fa280.jpg)
Clinton supporters cheer as results come in during an election night event at the Palm Beach County Convention Center in West Palm Beach, Fla. (Photo: Carolyn Kaster/AP)


“When she ran against President Obama in 2008, she stayed in till the end,” Palmieri said of Clinton, adding, “She said that she would never call on someone to drop out. … That’s not up to us.”

Palmieri also strenuously denied that Clinton was making a pivot to campaigning against T rump, even though the Republican frontrunner was named in her speech.

“I’m going to let the speech speak for itself, but I wouldn’t assume that those comments were directed at any particular one candidate,” Palmieri said.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/a-big-night-for-clinton-as-she-wins-ohio-florida-013801150.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/a-big-night-for-clinton-as-she-wins-ohio-florida-013801150.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 12:11:29 AM
Rubio's daughter?
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cp03i8QHfW8UoazacLrYsg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg2NztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/95f412c3b28d25a467cb99044d31160647f52940.jpg)
Even prettier than he is, it appears...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 03:07:18 AM
Mitch McConnell: Majority Leader Says Senate Won't Consider Supreme Court Nominee Until After Election

"The American people should have a say in the court's direction," McConnell said on the Senate floor Wednesday, responding to President Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland as the new justice.

---

The American people DID have a say, moron.

One more time:
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12003195_960579800650484_2889098584877292912_n.jpg?oh=d781f73e76e765706bc2c5a15744eba4&oe=5757F7BC)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 17, 2016, 03:10:05 AM
First campaign commercial in Utah...

Guess Who. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 03:15:25 AM
Mitch McConnell?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 17, 2016, 12:33:07 PM
So dumb question from someone who's never done the whole preliminary thing before (it's normally decided by the time we get to Utah):

What happens to delegates after a candidate drops out?  (determine whether I would vote for the one I like most or the one best suited to beat [Sleezebag])
What is the purpose/consequence of registering as a party?  (I'm presently registered independent, but the reps don't let anyone but reps vote) 


Bernie is first out the gate with commercials.  I'm actually a bit surprised, I don't think any democratic presidential candidate has ever spent money in Utah. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 04:57:21 PM
Seen on Facebook:
Quote
[Sleezebag] wants to ban Muslims.

But if we learned anything from Prohibition, it's that people will just make Muslims in their bathtubs.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 05:31:35 PM
Quote
How Kasich became National Republican Grownup
Yahoo News
By Matt Bai  6 hours ago


(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/5wwihQXLiuw5.Vg9QDv5ow--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1/http://40.media.tumblr.com/0785c154d5ef576ba27c25b6054c5a24/tumblr_inline_o46jqqqxD21tdop5d_1280.jpg)
Ohio governor and Republican presidential candidate John Kasich speaks at Villanova University in Villanova, Pa., on Wednesday. (Photo: Dominick Reuter/Reuters)



Normally, it wouldn’t be a very big deal for a popular two-term governor to win a presidential primary in his own state, especially if it’s the first of 29 states (and a couple of territories) he’s actually won. But normalcy isn’t even on speaking terms with politics this year, and so it was that John Kasich — after laboring as an afterthought through weeks of primaries and a dozen debates — woke up yesterday to a changed reality.

On the Villanova campus, where I caught up with him, something like 1,000 students jammed into an auditorium and an adjoining overflow room to see Kasich, who often sounded more like a dad than a presidential candidate. (“Here at Villanova, there’s a lot of lonely kids,” he said at one point. “Invite them to go out for pizza. Invite them to the basketball game.”)

Afterward, Kasich wandered into an impenetrable swarm of TV reporters, whose aggressive and overlapping questions — almost entirely about Donald [Sleezebag] and delegate math — he politely deflected.

Then I followed him out the back door, where his Ohio State Police detail was holding off another sizable throng of onlookers and photographers. We jumped into his black Suburban.

“Do you believe this, Matt?” Kasich said, turning around from the front seat to face me as the car surged forward. “Can you even believe what you saw there today? It’s incredible. Holy cow.”

I had to admit: It was something.

I’d interviewed Kasich on the eve of his announcement last July, and what we’d talked about then was temperament. As a young and ambitious congressman, and even in his early years as governor, Kasich had been known as impulsive and impolitic, quick to offend and quicker to retaliate. He chafed endlessly against the established order of his own party.

The knock on Kasich then was that he could never be disciplined or measured enough to project a presidential stature. Seriously.

Now here he was, the last man standing against [Sleezebag] and Ted Cruz, the only candidate left with governing gravitas. And more improbably, it seemed the campaign had transformed Kasich himself, or at least the public perception of him.

Somehow, the brash, prickly boy wonder of the Gingrich revolution — a guy still reviled by a lot of his liberal adversaries in Ohio for his evident moral certainty — had been elevated to the position of his party’s designated grownup.

Not only had Kasich managed to contain his famous temper over the last several months, but he had emerged as the most relentlessly upbeat candidate in either party, the favorite Republican of editorial boards and just about every voter who wasn’t planning to vote in Republican primaries.

I asked him if he thought he’d grown into this role during the campaign.

“There has been a big change in me, and that’s that I realized that people need encouragement,” he said. “More than I thought they did. They need to believe in themselves and their ability to change the world. I know that.

“I guess there’s an evolution as I’ve aged, and there’s my family and all that,” Kasich went on. “I’m not a kid anymore, you know? I’m 63 years old. Everybody grows up, I hope.”

But if it’s true that Kasich has mellowed (and I think it is), then it’s also true that his metamorphosis has a lot to do with the contrast he’s drawn. If this year’s Republican field were led by, say, John McCain or Mitt Romney, Kasich would probably seem like a slightly less irascible, less impulsive version of the guy who took the stage on the night of his first gubernatorial election and shouted: “I’m going to be the governor of Ohio!”

But as we and most alien civilizations surely know by now, this year’s field has been dominated by a crass showman who plays with extremist language as if the entire campaign were a Mad Lib. And every overshadowed governing candidate has had to make a decision, at one point or another, about how to remain relevant without losing all dignity.

Jeb Bush vacillated between punchless attacks and plaintive whines. Marco Rubio descended for a pivotal week into Triumph-the-Insult-Dog territory, then regretted it just as quickly. Chris Christie befriended the bully and now seems to occupy the organizational rung just below [Sleezebag]’s butler.

Alone among his peers, Kasich decided that if this was the last campaign of a long career, he was going to go out his way, with seriousness of purpose. And if espousing pragmatism while ignoring [Sleezebag] has made him seem, for much of the campaign, like a man oblivious to the moment, it has also earned him broader admiration than all the balanced budgets in the world.

Kasich said this week that he would  weigh in soon  on [Sleezebag]’s attitude toward women. I asked him if this signaled that a new, combative phase in his campaign was about to begin.

“I’m going to say things when I feel compelled to say them,” he replied, shaking his head. “More combative? I don’t like the sound of that. I’m not interested in being combative, but every once in a while, when you see something that makes your blood boil, I think you should say something about it.”

[Sleezebag]’s rhetoric isn’t new, so why had he waited this long to get incensed?

“I had a lot of stuff I didn’t know,” Kasich told me. “You might say, ‘Well, how could you not have known about what was happening at those rallies? How could you not have known about his rhetoric?’ Because I didn’t know. I’m running my own thing.

“And when I’ve seen it,” Kasich continued, “frankly I’ve been stunned by the coarseness. It’s beyond coarse, the insulting and incendiary nature of some of what he has done.”

I couldn’t be sure whether Kasich was really the last American with a television to find out about [Sleezebag]’s verbal recklessness, or whether he simply couldn’t afford to ignore it anymore. As much as he’s burnished his image by remaining at an Olympian remove, the mathematical fact is that Kasich can’t win without somehow taking [Sleezebag] down.

Even if Kasich were to consolidate his vote with most of Rubio’s (which is unlikely), it wouldn’t be enough to beat [Sleezebag] and Cruz in most states, as long as they continue to pile up the kinds of pluralities they did this week. Kasich would have to peel off some sizable segment of voters from both candidates, and even then all he can do is keep [Sleezebag] from clearing the threshold needed to clinch the nomination.

“I have a unique opportunity, because we’re now gaining momentum,” Kasich told me, shrugging off the obstacles. “What would you rather have, momentum in the first quarter or momentum in the fourth? Cruz didn’t win anything last night. I did.

“And you know what? People across the country are celebrating that victory in Ohio. Because they believe it sends a message that somebody who has a record, somebody who can bring us together — that there’s hope for that yet.

“I don’t see that anybody is going to have enough delegates,” Kasich told me. “And then you have a convention. I mean, why are people hyperventilating about that?”

Kasich’s plan, in other words, is to keep [Sleezebag] from amassing the 1,237 delegates he needs, and then to effectively declare a reset at the convention. His campaign added a team of serious party insiders this week — among them the superlobbyist Vin Weber and the longtime strategist Charlie Black — to begin preparing for a delegate war.

But as Kasich well knows, the “hyperventilation” in some circles comes from imagining what will happen if Republican operatives try to overturn the will of their own voters. And this is why Kasich needs to do more than simply keep [Sleezebag] under the magic number; he also needs to win a bunch of states that aren’t his own between now and early June.

In the end, an establishment-led challenge will be viable — or at least something less than suicidal — only if the leaders of various delegations can plausibly make the case that Kasich was the party’s strongest candidate by the time the primaries ended.

If nothing else, there’s little question that he’s now the most electable of the bunch. I asked him if it felt odd, despite his sharply conservative record and evangelical fervor, to have become the Republican Democrats like best.

“I have always been able to attract the independent and conservative Democrats,” Kasich told me as the car came to a stop. “When their party’s turned hard left and they feel left behind, we’ve always had an ability to get those votes.”

We were sitting in the driveway of a country club in Merion, Pa., where Kasich was about to attend a fundraiser. I thanked him for spending a little more time with me on what I knew was a rough day.

Kasich laughed, as if deeply amused.

“It’s not a rough day,” he said.
http://news.yahoo.com/how-kasich-became-republican-grown-up-105740374.html (http://news.yahoo.com/how-kasich-became-republican-grown-up-105740374.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 09:26:10 PM
Quote
Filling Scalia’s seat: Democrats think it’s a win-win for them
Yahoo Politics
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  March 16, 2016



Judge Merrick Garland of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Washington, D.C., Circuit will most likely not become Justice Merrick Garland of the Supreme Court, at least not while President Obama remains in office. He seems unlikely to get even a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, or a vote either by that panel or the whole Senate.

And it may be partly because it’s hard to imagine an Obama nominee more likely to win confirmation, if the Republicans allowed a vote.

Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell repeated on Wednesday what he said just hours after the late justice Antonin Scalia died in mid-February: There will be no Judiciary Committee hearings, and no votes on confirmation while Obama resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

“The Senate will appropriately revisit the matter when it considers the qualifications of the person the next president nominates,” McConnell said, apparently extinguishing even the dim prospects of a vote in the lame-duck session after the November elections.

Still, the pitched political battle over Garland’s fate could turn in unexpected ways, and will shape — and be shaped by — the 2016 race: not just Donald [Sleezebag]’s unprecedented presidential race but the fight to control the Senate, in which a platoon of Senate Republicans are facing stiff challenges.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/rzUXrdWrVcscYciQzBNC.A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg1MztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/b734b11a78b36f34c424bba923d9cbd74a0254a9.jpg)
President Obama introduces federal appeals court judge Merrick Garland, his nominee to fill the Supreme Court vacancy, at the White House on Wednesday, March 16, 2016. (Photo: Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP)


Garland, 63, is a judicial moderate who earned the support of a majority of Republicans for his 76-23 confirmation to the appeals court. Seven of the Senate’s current 54 Republicans supported him, while five opposed him, including McConnell and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley. Garland is a well regarded former federal prosecutor who walked in the ruins of the 1995 terrorist attack in Oklahoma City while emergency workers were still pulling out bodies, and he supervised the case that led to the death penalty for convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh. Conservatives say he is unsympathetic to their views on gun rights, but no one has seriously suggested he lacks the credentials to sit on the republic’s highest court. In fact, the GOP argument so far is not that he’s unqualified, but that someone who is not Obama should pick the next justice.

Garland’s nomination would need 14 Republicans to disrupt an inevitable filibuster, and five to be confirmed. Even if McConnell had not drawn that early line in the sand, that would not have been easy, but it would not have been impossible, and surely would have carried shorter odds than if Obama had chosen a nominee closer to the base of the Democratic Party. Put differently, there would be comparatively little political danger to the GOP in considering, and rejecting, a liberal firebrand, even one plucked from the ranks of women or minorities.

Republicans know that the main prize in play is the ideological shape of the Supreme Court. The late justice Antonin Scalia wasn’t just “a” conservative jurist. He was arguably the most influential conservative jurist of his era. Republicans know they’re highly unlikely to get another Scalia, but would settle for putting another conservative in the seat that the acerbic Italian-American held for decades, continuing their run of 5-4 rulings on many contentious issues. The problem for Republicans is not that Garland may turn out to be liberal — it’s that he’s sure to be a lot more liberal than Scalia, tipping the overall balance of the court to the left. To avoid that, the GOP has to gamble that they will recapture the White House come November.

For the Republican base, the issue is even more stark: It’s not just a question of how Garland would vote; it’s their refusal to countenance handing Obama any sort of victory. Polls conducted before Garland’s nomination found nearly seven in 10 Republicans saying Obama shouldn’t even try to fill the seat.

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus captured the two notions — the court’s potential shift, anger at Obama — on Twitter. “We won’t stand by while Obama attempts to install a liberal majority on #SCOTUS to undermine our Constitution & protect his lawless actions,” he said.

White House aides have long said that having an actual nominee will force Republican intransigence to crumble, and that vulnerable Senate Republicans will ultimately press their leaders to hold hearings and votes. They point to conservatives like former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales who have called for the Senate to take up the nomination. McConnell will cave, they predict confidently.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7EPU9zqVaTVFLovTOjo5bg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTg4MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/bb1c5c060a7216a69d62c0d58316ffb62dcbc4e8.jpg)
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., leaves the Senate chamber after vowing that the body will not hold hearings on whether to confirm Garland. (Photo: J. Scott Applewhite/AP Photo)


McConnell will not cave, those close to him counter. Vulnerable Republicans don’t need to hold the line the way he does — they can meet with Garland, something their leader refuses to do — but they need the GOP base in November more than they need Democrats or up-for-grabs independents. If core Republicans stay home, the candidates lose. Swing voters are less likely to be won or lost on whether McConnell lifts the roadblock than on the parties’ standard-bearers, economic conditions or other factors.

One big variable, officials of both parties agree, is the [Sleezebag] factor. Back in March, an aide to a vulnerable Republican senator told Yahoo News, “I’m not sure we want to be in the business of telling voters that we’d rather risk having Donald [Sleezebag] nominate the next Supreme Court justice.” The brash marketing whiz has said he supports McConnell’s position. But the big unknown is how [Sleezebag] the GOP Nominee affects Garland’s fate. Fairly large numbers of Republican primary voters have told pollsters that they will not back the tinsel-haired entrepreneur in the general election. If they stay home, Republican candidates in down-ballot races may need to rely more heavily on independents.

Some Democrats think that this is a fight they can’t lose.

“We have forced them into a telescoping series of untenable positions, where even agreeing to meet with the guy is a cave in the view of their base,” said a senior Democratic congressional aide.

“It’s a win-win situation. Either we get the confirmation and change the balance of the court for a generation, or they have to fight to November defending the most extreme, untenable position of no-votes, and we’ll annihilate them on that,” the aide said. “And then President Clinton nominates” Scalia’s successor.

So, the aide said, “I don’t care if McConnell caves or not.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/filling-scalias-seat-democrats-think-its-a-020011431.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/filling-scalias-seat-democrats-think-its-a-020011431.html)


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Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 17, 2016, 11:50:23 PM
Quote
Ted Cruz’s biggest challenge yet is making nice with his Senate colleagues
Yahoo News
Dan Friedman  March 17, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/kI_ZhN8.zNQI5plM5zDwag--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1280/e977a131e88f3d1ae36854866e395545cd94b28b.jpg)
Photo: Molly Riley/AP



Republican senators’ least favorite Washington politician is not Hillary Clinton. It’s not Chuck Schumer or President Obama. It is Sen. Ted Cruz.

Senate Republicans revile Cruz with special fervor because of their sense that he has used his short time in the Senate primarily to engage in political stunts and mock them as corrupt imbeciles in order to promote himself.

The insults sting all the more because they have worked. With Florida Sen. Marco Rubio now out of the presidential race and Ohio Gov. John Kasich unable to capture the GOP nomination outright, Senate Republicans face what South Carolina’s Lindsey Graham has described as a choice between being shot or poisoned in a two-way fight between Cruz and Donald [Sleezebag].

Eager to consolidate support, Cruz is offering his version of an olive branch, asking select Senate colleagues to unite behind him through the rest of the GOP primary fight.

At the same time, Senate Republicans’ dislike of Cruz runs so deep that many plan to sit on their hands in the coming months and await a nominee. In more than 20 interviews and conversations over the past week, Republican senators and staffers described deep antipathy toward Cruz.

“Now is the time for Republicans to unite for all of us who want a brighter future for our nation to come together and stand as one,” Cruz said Tuesday night, urging Rubio supporters and others to join him against [Sleezebag].

Cruz recently began calling Senate Republican colleagues “with a pitch for party unity against Donald [Sleezebag],” said Josh Holmes, a former top aide to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

McConnell is not among those Cruz has called, said Holmes, who is president and a founder of Cavalry LLC, which provides political consulting to Senate campaigns and others.

Graham did receive a call from Cruz after musing publicly about backing him over [Sleezebag]. The Texas senator emphasized areas of agreement, according to Graham, including the suggestion that “he will be a more reliable supporter of Israel than Donald will.”

Cruz’s fellow Texan, Sen. John Cornyn, the second-ranking Senate Republican, said last week that his suggestion that Cruz “engage with members of the Republican conference” drew interest from Cruz.

“The relationship could use some improvement,” Cornyn added.

Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe, who endorsed Rubio, said that he doubts Cruz can convince senators who haven’t backed him yet to change course before the convention.

“I’m not sure what he could do that he couldn’t have been doing all along,” Inhofe said. “There are a lot of negative feelings.”

In a possible signal to establishment Republicans that he wants their help, Cruz said on Monday that he “could absolutely see a place for” Rubio and Kasich in his Cabinet if elected to the White House.

Cruz’s campaign is currently working to line up support from pledged delegates in anticipation of a potential convention fight in which many delegates could switch to support him after the first ballot. The odds of pulling off such an upset are already low, and Cruz could surely use help from Republican senators who might influence delegates from their states.

But Cruz’s outreach has so far borne little fruit. A Cruz endorsement last Thursday by Utah Republican Mike Lee, probably the Texan’s staunchest Senate ally, was notable primarily for how late it came.

“He’s a uniquely flawed messenger for a unity pitch given his proclivity to throw Republicans under the bus every time he’s had an opportunity to improve his own standing,” Holmes said. “Almost any other candidate in the field would be able to bring the party together behind their candidacy at this point. But everyone else might need to be eliminated before that happens [for Cruz].”

Cruz’s role in forcing the 2013 government shutdown is only the most prominent on a long list of grievances Senate Republicans have compiled against the Texas senator since his 2012 election. His support for the Senate Conservatives Fund, a political action committee that often endorses conservative challengers bidding to oust Senate Republican incumbents, has left lasting anger.

And so the idea that Cruz would be a preferable nominee to [Sleezebag] is not a given for many Republicans. Alabama’s Jeff Sessions, the only senator to have endorsed [Sleezebag], is hardly the only GOP senator unsold on Cruz.

“It’s a real open question whether people ultimately conclude Ted Cruz is any more palatable than Donald [Sleezebag],” said Holmes. “Conservatives certainly think Ted Cruz is ideologically more predictable than Donald [Sleezebag]. But he has less experience than anyone in the field and is more personally disliked than any candidate in modern history.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/.ciAnfovd.WuKaaQz6DYEw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://l.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w1125/a6956046c4daa9b1007e4e3d81b30f8480b5c26a.jpg)
Sen. Lindsey Graham, seen laughing with Cruz at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing in July 2015, is among the GOP colleagues Cruz has reached out to. (Photo: Andrew Harnik/AP)


Senators say Cruz should get to work if he hopes to improve his Senate relations.

“Show some interest,” said Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch, the longest serving Senate Republican, when asked how Cruz could win colleagues’ support. “Quit running down the Congress as though we’re a bunch of imbeciles.”

Kansas Sen. Pat Roberts cited Neil Diamond’s “Sweet Caroline” as instructive. “How’s it go?” Roberts said. “Hands, touching hands. Reaching out…”

“I am sure there will be people who will start moving in his direction,” said South Dakota’s John Thune, who heads the Senate Republican Conference. “But in terms of the relationship up here, he certainly can improve his outreach.”

But while Cruz can try to reduce animosity among colleagues, he is unlikely to seek or receive many endorsements as he takes on [Sleezebag], senators and aides said.

Cruz, who has worked in federal and state politics for most of the past 16 years, still hopes to cast himself as a more legitimate Washington outsider than [Sleezebag], who has never held any office. “Donald [Sleezebag] is the system,” Cruz said Sunday. “He is Washington.”

Cruz often cites his lack of support from GOP senators as evidence of his refusal to trade conservative values for Beltway popularity, and he has suggested that lawmakers who dislike him are part of the “Washington cartel” he is fighting.

That rhetoric gives Cruz a pitch he can hardly swap now for the blessing of the alleged “cartel” bosses.

“I am not sure that so-called establishment help is what he wants,” Thune said.

That view was borne out Wednesday when Cruz seemed to reject a suggestion, first reported by CNN, that he apologize to McConnell for calling the senior Republican a liar in remarks on the Senate floor last year.

Cruz told Fox News he will not “come on bended knee, with my hat in hand and suddenly say, ‘Oh, all the Washington politicians were right.’

“I’m gonna continue standing up to Washington, to the bipartisan corruption that got us in this mess,” Cruz said.

Ultimately, lawmakers planning to help or simply not oppose Cruz suggested their approach results mostly from a dispassionate decision to try to stop [Sleezebag] and the electoral catastrophe they fear will result from his nomination. Cruz, rarely seen in the Senate these days as he campaigns, just needs to stay out of the way.

Even so, Republican lawmakers and aides believe Cruz will experience no big wave of support from fellow senators unless he first captures the Republican nomination.

North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr, who in January denied an Associated Press report that he told campaign donors he would vote for Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders before Cruz, said there is only one way for Cruz to win Senate GOP support.

“Win the nomination,” Burr said. “At the end of the day, we’re going to be supportive of our nominee.”

Many GOP senators said they welcome Cruz’s seeking their support. But the likely result may be subtle.

“It affects the enthusiasm with which you’ll back him, certainly, or statements you’ll make,” said Arizona Republican Jeff Flake. “It never hurts.”

Hatch said he hopes to hear from Cruz soon.

“We all make mistakes. We all have to change some things, You’ve got to allow room for the younger people who are new to the process to make mistakes,” Hatch said. “Ted’s learning a lot from this. It’s been good for him.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ted-cruzs-biggest-challenge-yet-is-making-nice-162432067.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/ted-cruzs-biggest-challenge-yet-is-making-nice-162432067.html)



I will make this observation:  the House is crawling with teaparty chimps, and Cruz is far from the only one to slime his way into the Senate.  What you hear for reasons nobody likes Ted Cruz, least the people who've had to work with him, is mostly the usual teaparty playbook bullcrap - but the intensity and universality of antipathy to the man in the Senate indicates that there's something significant beyond the usual teaparty playbook bullcrap; the other teaparty chimps aren't supporting him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM
So dumb question from someone who's never done the whole preliminary thing before (it's normally decided by the time we get to Utah):

What happens to delegates after a candidate drops out?  (determine whether I would vote for the one I like most or the one best suited to beat [Sleezebag])
What is the purpose/consequence of registering as a party?  (I'm presently registered independent, but the reps don't let anyone but reps vote) 


Bernie is first out the gate with commercials.  I'm actually a bit surprised, I don't think any democratic presidential candidate has ever spent money in Utah.

I'll answer this and then get back to work in my basement.

Short answer is that there are 50 different state rule books, and the rules are subject to change over time. So it doesn't hurt to look the stuff up. Wisconsin has an open primary. Everybody who's eligible to vote can vote on whichever ballot they prefer. I once voted for Obama in the primary in hopes that Hillary would get off of my television.

In a lot of states, your political registration mostly affects which calling and mailing lists you are on. In Ohio, you're stuck with your registration for 4 years.

Sometimes delegates are bound until the first ballot is cast regardless.   Sometimes a candidate who drops out frees his delegates at some point. Not so likely with prospects of a brokered convention, at least, not without some political horsetrading.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 18, 2016, 03:14:46 PM
Momma saw something on TV yesterday about teaparty types trying to organize to do the third party thing to worship Paul Ryan.

-As a said a couple weeks ago, any substantial traction on doing a third party thing automatically makes HRC President - and if the stupid wing of the party does it, it automatically fails in chaos and infighting.  Teaparty's big on eating its young, and does little else.

The small-government wing doing it, on the other hand, would still be giving up on blocking HRC this time, but might do some real good in the long run, especially if they got some of the less disgusting Atwater acolytes on the bus and listened to them (which carries its own horrific dangers -Atwater was teaparty before teaparty, ideologically, and done wrong his type of strategy just spreads the bullcrap and statism- but still)...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 18, 2016, 03:47:39 PM
I think they were floating the idea of Ryan as a compromise in a brokered convention. He quickly declined. Of course, he did much the same with the Speaker job, but when the party couldn't agree on anybody else, and said they really needed him to hold them together, he reached an understanding with it's  membership.

Under similar circumstances, he might agree, but we're not in a brokered convention scenario as yet.

There have been a number of infusions in the GOP, the Dixiecrat segregationists, the Televangelicals, the TEA party ( who have been sort of highjacked by TheoCon/CultureCons ). These groups have a gift for making outrageous statements that alienate swing voters, and then blame the business people in the party for not being Pro Life/anti -gay/ anti-immigrant enough to win.  It's time the CultureCons went their own way and settled things once and for all, even if that means they inherit the title GOP. We'll see which one withers.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 18, 2016, 03:58:01 PM
There's nothing sacred about the Republican Party, which began as the radical liberal party, very opposite to what 80 years pretty firmly dominant turned it into.  It was founded to OPPOSE theocons and ceocons, and lived to become what it hated most - the people who would own slaves if they could now.

I still say the pragmatic libertarian wing should just go take  over the Libertarian Party, and make it less hardcore/extreme/pitiful - the stench of nerds and Randism and desperate failed masculinity ought to wash right off. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 20, 2016, 03:28:16 PM
Quote
Obama poised to lead (economic) invasion of Cuba
Yahoo News
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  March 19, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/DBsYb81zKac.Kc_0gecXyQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzU1O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/a8f5c4537f0f37a286f30ce729db9ce4/tumblr_inline_o496sd4JLF1sjejya_540.jpg)
A recent view of downtown Havana. (Photo: Alexandre Meneghini/Reuters)



For nearly 50 years, the United States tried various ways to end the Castro regime that rules Cuba. The disastrous 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion led to the convoluted scenarios laid out in “Operation Mongoose,” including plots to poison Fidel with a cigar, or a wet suit, or hiring organized crime figures to kill him. Later, the crippling U.S. economic embargo aimed to convince the island’s population to rise up and overthrow the Soviet ally just 90 miles off Florida’s shores.

Both the use of force and economic pressure failed to bring about the desired result — while Castro boasted of surviving CIA hit jobs and blamed poor living conditions in socialist Cuba on the U.S. The bearded revolutionary outlasted U.S. president after U.S. president, and his government even survived the collapse of the Soviet Union, which deprived Havana of aid from Moscow. The end of the Cold War also set the stage for American allies, like Mexico, Canada and France, to carve out lucrative niches in Cuba’s tourism industry, leaving the United States isolated.

When Pres. Barack Obama arrives in Havana on Sunday, it will be at the head of what amounts to a different kind of U.S. invasion. There will be air power:  Airlines clamoring to be able to run direct flights  to Cuba. There will be naval power: Cruise lines launching routes to Cuba. Marriott, looking to become the largest hotel chain in the world through a merger with Starwood, wants to establish a beachhead. And the president has potentially enlisted tens of thousands of infantry by recently  loosening restrictions on Americans traveling to Cuba  to such an extent that, while a ban on simple tourism remains on the books, it’s easy, in practice, to travel there to take in the sights.

“Our central premise,” Obama told Yahoo News in an interview in December, is that if “they are suddenly exposed to the world, opened to America and our information and our culture and our visitors and our businesses, invariably they’re going to change.”

The president will arrive in Cuba on Sunday evening with first lady Michelle Obama and their daughters, Malia and Sasha, for a whirlwind visit — a little less than 48 hours in Havana.

“I look forward to being the first U.S. president to visit Cuba in nearly 90 years — without a battleship accompanying me,” Obama said recently, referring to Calvin Coolidge’s 1928 trip aboard the USS Texas.

The historic trip will highlight his efforts to make his policy changes irreversible, even if a Republican retakes the White House in November’s elections.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/g7cG5yOcVQcylHJsqrE3Mw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzU3O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/355608d9d0863e0bffe32bd3013b595a/tumblr_inline_o496sexeJJ1sjejya_540.jpg)
Workers repair the street in front of the Capitolio in Havana, March 14, 2016. (Photo: Ramon Espinosa/AP)


The president will meet with his Cuban counterpart, Raúl Castro, but not with Fidel, who used to delight in delivering roaring seven-hour speeches, but has been seen in public less and less since handing his brother the reins in 2008. He’ll take in some of the sights in Havana, and attend an exhibition baseball game pitting the Tampa Bay Rays against Cuba’s national team. There will be a state dinner. He will also deliver a speech about steps that must still be taken to further improve relations, a message that White House aides say will be broadcast on Cuban television. He will meet with Raúl Castro at the Palacio de la Revolución, the seat of government, and criticize his regime’s human rights record both there and in a meeting with hand-picked dissidents.

“We’re trying a new approach,” White House press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters Friday. “Our approach now is that the president of the United States is going to get on Air Force One, he is going to fly to Havana, Cuba, and he is going to sit down with the leader of Cuba and say, ‘You need to do a better job of protecting the human rights of your people.’”

White House officials have taken pains not to predict a speedy democratic revolution in Cuba. Instead, they say, American investment, tourism and trade will raise Cuba’s standard of living, while even modestly expanded communications, including Internet access, will help Cubans engage with the wider world.

“We know that change won’t come to Cuba overnight,” White House National Security Adviser Susan Rice said Thursday. “We believe that engagement — including greater trade, travel and ties between Americans and Cubans — is the best way to help create opportunity and spur progress for the Cuban people. “

Obama is not expected to nominate an ambassador to Cuba on the trip. The current top U.S. diplomat there, Jeffrey DeLaurentis, is a widely respected career State Department staffer. Naming an ambassador, Obama aides say privately, would pack too many risks and too few rewards. It would not alter the day-to-day diplomatic work, while embroiling the White House in yet another battle with Republicans in Congress. And failure to win confirmation would deal a sharp symbolic blow to Obama’s policy.

Obama still seeks ambitious changes on both sides of the Florida Straits. In the United States, he wants Congress to lift the embargo. In Cuba, he wants the government to take its own big steps, like allowing American businesses to hire directly, bypassing the patronage system that helps Castro hold on to power.

“A real game changer would be a situation in which you have a direct employer-employee relationship,” Obama told Yahoo News in December.

Cuba’s government, though hungry for foreign investment, has not eagerly embraced the idea of political change. The official Communist Party newspaper, Granma, recently editorialized that the country would retain its “unconditional commitment to its revolutionary and anti-imperialist ideals,” and emphasized there remains “a long, difficult road” to a full restoration of relations.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/CY1Pulnxd2ZS4TkU_ShQFw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYzO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/d7c281a27fee4cfb8ed15293790851b0/tumblr_inline_o496sfR88D1sjejya_540.jpg)
A man fishes as commuters take a ferry to Havana, March 2016. (Photo: Ramon Espinosa/AP)


Obama himself told Yahoo News last year that Raúl Castro is looking to harness the benefits of American investments without embracing democratic reforms.

“What he probably wants to pull off is a transformation of the economic system to make it more productive and more efficient and raise standards of living — without letting go of the political reins,” the president said.

That’s what happened in Vietnam, the country Obama aides often mention in conversations about Cuba.

It’s a cautionary tale. When Bill Clinton announced plans to normalize relations in July 1995, he drew a straight line connecting American investment and tourism to improved human rights.

“I believe normalization and increased contact between Americans and Vietnamese will advance the cause of freedom in Vietnam, just as it did in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union,” he said.

Twenty years later, the State Department’s annual human rights report about Vietnam deplored “severe government restrictions of citizens’ political rights, particularly their right to change their government through free and fair elections; limits on citizens’ civil liberties, including freedom of assembly and expression; and inadequate protection of citizens’ due process rights, including protection against arbitrary detention.”

Still, Obama told Yahoo News last year, “Raúl Castro recognizes the need for change,” and wants to “help usher in those changes before he and his brother are gone,” leaving a successor without the clout to transform Cuba either politically or economically.

After all, Obama said, “nobody’s got better street cred when it comes to, you know, Cuban revolutionary zeal than one of the original revolutionaries.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-poised-to-lead-economic-1388547385655350.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-poised-to-lead-economic-1388547385655350.html)



Right wrong or indifferent, touching Cuba and Cuba policy is the gutsiest thing I've ever see from Bakrama, and having the political courage to try to break an impossible third-rail of a logjam -older than he is- is my favorite thing he's done as president.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 21, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Quote
Kasich on a brokered convention: ‘Everybody chill!’
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  March 20, 2016


John Kasich has a message for members of the Republican Party unnerved over the prospect of a brokered convention: Chill!

“I don’t think anybody is going to get there with the delegates that they need to win,” the Ohio governor said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. “So, let’s just everybody chill out.”

Kasich, with 143 delegates, trails GOP frontrunner Donald T rump (678) and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz (423) in the race for the 1,237 delegates needed to secure the Republican nomination. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio — who suspended his campaign after losing the primary in his home state — has 169.

If no one reaches the 1,237-delegate figure, the nominee will be determined in July during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.

“We will go into Cleveland with momentum, and then the delegates are going to consider two things,” Kasich said. “No. 1, who can win in the fall — and I’m the only one that can, that’s what the polls indicate — and number two, a really crazy consideration, like, who could actually be president of the United States.”

“The delegates will take everything seriously,” Kasich said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “They will take a look at people’s experience and their electability. And that’s fine. What’s everybody so panicked about this? Everybody needs to take a little chill pill, to tell you the truth.”

Gov. John Kasich on State of the Union: Full Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcY2CF6eU9E&feature=player_embedded#)
Quote
“I am not playing a parlor game,” he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “The convention is an extension of the process of nominating somebody. I was there in ‘76 when [Ronald] Reagan challenged the sitting president [Gerald Ford]. They didn’t like him doing it either. But, you know what? His vision, his message mattered. Listen, nobody’s going to that convention with enough delegates. And at the end, do you know why I’ll get picked? Because I can win in the fall. And secondly, because I have the experience and the record to lead this country.”

Kasich called T rump’s prediction that there would be “riots” if he doesn’t get the nomination in a brokered convention “outrageous.”

“When he says that there could be riots, that’s inappropriate,” Kasich said on “Face the Nation.” “While we have our differences and disagreements, we’re Americans. Americans don’t say, 'Let’s take to the streets and have violence.’”

The Ohio governor said he has no interest in the vice presidential nomination should he not emerge as the GOP nominee.

“Under no circumstances,” Kasich said on “Meet the Press” when asked if he would consider becoming T rump’s running mate.

What about Cruz?

“No. I’m not going to be anybody’s,” Kasich said. “I’m running for president.”

And if Kasich does become president, he won’t be using as much confetti at the victory party as he did after his Ohio primary win.

“Here’s what happened,” Kasich explained on CNN. “[We] blew it the first time with a weak confetti shot. So, it was like porridge. He went from too cold to too hot. And all I can say is, I don’t want that much confetti again.”

Kasich says his confetti guy went too far (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd_lgDpz_pw&feature=player_embedded#)


https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kasich-brokered-convention-chill-183023670.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/kasich-brokered-convention-chill-183023670.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 21, 2016, 06:32:34 PM

Right wrong or indifferent, touching Cuba and Cuba policy is the gutsiest thing I've ever see from Bakrama, and having the political courage to try to break an impossible third-rail of a logjam -older than he is- is my favorite thing he's done as president.


I see it more as a theme among Obama's presidency, honestly. 

You look at his foreign policy and he tends to be more open to things "Presidents don't do".  The Iran deal comes to mind (no matter how it looks now).  He said from the get go he'd be talking to all these nations that were 'off limits'.  I think you're just seeing the natural results of years of that attitude from the US. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 21, 2016, 08:15:25 PM
I applaud Obama for the new approach to Cuba. The old one didn't work.

The Iran deal is a lot like the Federal budget deals. It kicks the can down the road. It's better than no deal at all. Until the members of Congress can suck it up and do their duty with regards to our budget, they have no room to talk, or for that matter, they should have no time to worry about an Iran Deal.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 21, 2016, 09:00:07 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/03/21/us/politics/ap-us-gop-2016-utah.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/03/21/us/politics/ap-us-gop-2016-utah.html?_r=0)

Quote
SALT LAKE CITY — Donald [Sleezebag] faces an uphill battle in Utah's caucuses Tuesday, but he could still walk away with delegates if sharp divisions within the party prevent anyone from winning a majority.

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz is likely to do well in Utah, a conservative state that prizes civility and religiosity. Cruz has been helped by the support of Mitt Romney, the GOP's last presidential nominee who holds clout among the state's predominantly Mormon voters. On Monday the Texas senator also picked up the endorsement of Utah Gov. Gary Herbert.

But Ohio Gov. John Kasich is fighting back in Utah, hoping his more pragmatic approach and longtime governing experience will net him delegates there. He has invested heavily in Utah in recent days, airing $215,000 in ads -- the fifth highest amount he's spent in any state so far. That includes one web ad that falsely implies Romney backed him, rather than Cruz in Utah.

According to Utah state regulations, if no candidate wins more than half of the caucus votes, each of the three candidates will be awarded delegates proportionally. The candidate who can win Utah by more than 50 percent will walk away with all 40 delegates.

[Sleezebag] could significantly benefit from those rules if Cruz doesn't win the majority, since it would ultimately bump up his lead. The former reality television star goes into Tuesday's contests as the national front-runner with 680 delegates in hand. Cruz has 424 and Kasich has 143.





Ultimately, both Cruz and Kasich increasingly share a mutual goal — both want to stop [Sleezebag] from gaining the required 1,237 delegates to win the Republican nomination, ultimately forcing a contested convention to take place in July.

Kasich made a series of campaign stops in the state on Friday and Saturday, drawing rebuke from Cruz.

"Donald [Sleezebag] wants people to vote for Kasich because it divides his opposition," Cruz told reporters during a trip to the Arizona border Friday.

On Monday, Utah Republicans received a pre-recorded call from Romney urging them to back Cruz, not Kasich. "At this point," Romney said on the call, "a vote for John Kasich is a vote for Donald [Sleezebag]."

The Kasich campaign says it's logical to compete in Utah. "It would be malpractice to cede delegates to somebody who you don't think is going to be the nominee and who you don't think can win the general election," spokesman Chris Schrimpf said.

The split among Utah voters and its Republican establishment mirrors the widening divide among Republicans nationwide. A total of all the votes cast thus far reveals that a majority have opted for someone other than [Sleezebag]. But with no single standard-bearer in the running, the billionaire real estate developer has managed to amass a majority of delegates.

"I don't know if there are huge disagreements on policy but there are temperamental differences at play," said Paul Mero, former head of a conservative think tank in Utah. "Kasich just taps into a fundamental Utah establishment seriousness."

Kasich has netted the backing of former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt and onetime Sen. Bob Bennett -- who was ousted by the tea party movement in 2010 and replaced by Sen. Mike Lee, who is now backing Cruz. The Texas senator, an unapologetic conservative firebrand, often lashes out against Republican establishment figures, many of whom traditionally thrive in Utah. But leaders like Romney and Herbert have consolidated around Cruz because he is seen as the only one who can catch up to [Sleezebag]'s delegate lead.





Asked if he would vote for [Sleezebag] if he gets the nomination, Herbert said, "Let's hope that doesn't have to be my decision."

Dave Hansen, a Republican operative in Utah, is confident that the state's highly-engaged voters will figure out that Cruz has the better chance to get to 50 percent and block [Sleezebag].

"They are the kind of people who record CSPAN for viewing later," Hansen said.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 21, 2016, 11:26:21 PM
Fox's debate was cancelled when The Leader dropped out, and Kasich followed. The Leader thinks FOX is biased against him. I would have to agree.

Frankly, I think Kasich made a huge tactical error. According to Kasich, he doesn't think debates are a good way to chooses a candidate, he thinks everybody should be present, and he doesn't really like them. Well, my guess is that he doesn't really like asking for money, but he still does it.

Kasich says his campaign is gaining momentum because more people are hearing his message. Well what better way to reach people than a national TV audience which he doesn't have to pay for? Yeah, I know he prefers town meetings, but how many of those does he have to do to equal total exposure of one TV debate? Is he afraid of peaking too soon? If his strategy is brokered convention, and going with the most likely winner.... the more people that get to know Kasich, the better his general election polls should look.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 22, 2016, 03:41:27 AM
GRRR.

So apparently Sean Hannity is backing The Leader, while Mark Levine is backing Cruz.

Hannity is complaining that it isn't right that The Leader could get the most votes and not get the nomination.  Really? So obviously he thinks Gore should have been president instead of Bush the Lesser.
Gore got more of the popular vote, after all. Fair and square.

We have a Constitution and we observe it. It stipulates the electoral college. It keeps the presidential candidates from concentrating on the urbanized coastal states and ignoring the concerns of the states with smaller populations. The Republicans and Democrats have rules for choosing a presidential candidate, and they follow them. They specify delegates. It keeps the parties from fielding a regional or special interest candidate which the majority of the membership opposes.

Them's the rules. When T rump drives most of the existing membership out of the Republican Party, he can easily change them. But then again, he's not much for The Constitution, International Law, etc. either. 

EDIT- He don't need no stinkin' rules. He's a winner.   

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 22, 2016, 12:45:40 PM
Frankly, I think Kasich made a huge tactical error. According to Kasich, he doesn't think debates are a good way to chooses a candidate, he thinks everybody should be present, and he doesn't really like them. Well, my guess is that he doesn't really like asking for money, but he still does it.

The Boss and I had the same thought.  How do you NOT take that opportunity to show up with a grand "I'm HERE, where is HE?" type appearance? 

So the lot of them come to Utah, very heavily anti [Sleezebag] here.  Yet, he managed to dominate the news cycle specifically by playing INTO that hatred.  Well played. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 23, 2016, 06:48:08 AM
[Sleezebag] won Arizona, still under 50%

Utah = Cruz ( Romney endorsed ) 70+ % , Kasich 15.7%,  and [Sleezebag] 13.8%.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 23, 2016, 03:14:54 PM
Quote
Obama says Cubans can learn from U.S. election campaign
Yahoo News
Olivier Knox  Chief Washington Correspondent  March 22, 2016



HAVANA — In the keynote speech of his historic visit to Cuba, President Obama on Tuesday pointed to the messy 2016 U.S. election campaign as a sign of American progress over the past 50 years.

“It isn’t always pretty, the process of democracy; it’s often frustrating — you can see that in the election going on back home,” Obama told an audience that included Cuban President Raúl Castro.

“But just stop and consider this fact about the American campaign that’s taking place right now: You had two Cuban-Americans in the Republican Party running against the legacy of a black man who was president, while arguing that they’re the best person to beat the Democratic nominee, who will either be a woman or a democratic socialist,” Obama told the full house at the ornate Gran Teatro, drawing laughter. “Who would have believed that back in 1959? That’s a measure of our progress as a democracy.” He was referring to Republican Sens. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, himself, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Sen. Bernie Sanders. Obama’s description of the contest omitted GOP frontrunner Donald T rump, whom Obama has sharply criticized.

Obama’s unprecedented speech reached beyond the audience listening to him in the theater to Cubans watching an American president speak directly to them for the first time via state-run television, which broadcast the address.

“I have come here to bury the last remnant of the Cold War in the Americas,” Obama said. “In many ways, the United States and Cuba are like two brothers that have been estranged for many years, even as we share the same blood.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/3bHK.txctuVGniR8hA31pQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTc2MDtoPTM4NDA7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://40.media.tumblr.com/f5fd897c10c7c8b0e49e9ac3bc64e488/tumblr_inline_o4gim5DiKD1sjejya_1280.jpg)
Obama waves to the crowd before he delivers his speech. (Photo: Desmond Boylan/AP)


The president used the address to defend his economic and diplomatic opening to Cuba. Castro has largely resisted Washington’s pressure to couple market-style reforms with an easing of restrictions on political activity. Republicans have accused Obama of taking steps that legitimize the Castro regime’s stranglehold on power. White House aides counter that the five-decade-old embargo only served to give Cuba’s government an excuse for economic hardships and did nothing to foster democratic reforms.

“Many suggested that I come here and ask the people of Cuba to tear something down,” Obama said, in a nod to Ronald Reagan’s “Tear down this wall” message to Moscow in Berlin in 1987. “But I’m appealing to the young people of Cuba who will lift something up, build something new.”

Still, he cautioned Cubans against “the blind optimism that says all your problems can go away tomorrow.”

The speech in some ways resembled the U.S. president’s annual State of the Union speech. Cubans in the room stood, clapped and cheered when he called for an end to the embargo the United States imposed in the years after the 1959 Cuban revolution that swept Fidel Castro to power. A delegation of American lawmakers applauded when Obama declared, “I believe voters should be able to choose their governments in free and democratic elections.”

Raúl Castro sat in the front row of the lowest balcony, surrounded by stone-faced officials. He made no outward show of emotion. At the end of the speech — which Obama closed with “sí se puede,” Spanish for “Yes, we can,” which was his election slogan— Castro rose quickly and waved as the crowd cheered him. He did not stay long.

Obama later met with some of the Castro regime’s most stalwart opponents — dissidents and civil society leaders. The group included longtime human rights champion Elizardo Sánchez, as well as Ladies in White leader Berta Soler and LGBT activist Juana Mora Cedeño.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/V76d__2Rr3y3FNHdvyliRQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDQ4ODtoPTI5ODg7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://41.media.tumblr.com/09df127c4988b167bc8984ca4ab91930/tumblr_inline_o4gio1K3bx1sjejya_1280.jpg)
Cuban President Raúl Castro gestures to the audience as he takes his seat before Obama’s speech. (Photo: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters)


“We cannot and should not ignore the very real differences that we have about how we organize our governments, our economies and our societies,” Obama said in his speech.

Still, he said, “I believe my visit here demonstrates that you do not need to fear a threat from the United States.”

At the same time, Obama said, “you need not fear the different voices of the Cuban people and their capacity to speak and assemble and vote for their leaders.”

“I am hopeful for the future, because I trust that the Cuban people will make the right decisions,” Obama declared. “I’m also confident that Cuba can continue to play an important role in the hemisphere and around the globe. And my hope is that you can do so as a partner with the United States.”

From the meeting with dissidents, Obama headed to the Estadio Latinoamericano to watch an exhibition baseball game pitting the Tampa Bay Rays against Cuba’s national team.

The matchup began with a moment of silence for the victims of the bombings in Brussels earlier in the day. Obama and Raúl Castro stood somberly side by side.

A white-robed choir sang both national anthems — with Cuba’s first — and the rowdy crowd erupted in cheers at the end of the “Star-Spangled Banner.” It was unclear whether this was a show of friendship or reflected their obvious eagerness for the game to start.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/yk3ElfiYILdZMTvFrFe5dA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MzUwMDtoPTI1MjE7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://41.media.tumblr.com/49ac9b8a1bec24b403eda07119c7ec76/tumblr_inline_o4gisnfAGn1sjejya_1280.jpg)
President Obama, first lady Michelle Obama and their daughters, Malia and Sasha, accompanied by Cuban President Raúl Castro, right, observe a moment of silence for victims of terrorist attacks in Brussels prior to a baseball match in Havana.  (Photo: Alejandro Ernesto/EPA)
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-tells-cubans-to-learn-from-the-2016-race-201427307.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-tells-cubans-to-learn-from-the-2016-race-201427307.html)



I saw Mrs. Obama on TV wearing a dress with long sleeves yesterday...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 23, 2016, 03:24:22 PM
Quote
Clinton edges closer to nomination with Arizona win
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  March 22, 2016



Hillary Clinton continued her march toward the Democratic presidential nomination with a win over Sen. Bernie Sanders, D-Vt., in the coveted Arizona primary on Tuesday evening.

Sanders was projected to win the Utah and Idaho caucuses.

Clinton came into Tuesday ahead of Sanders by more than 300 delegates, after winning all five states that voted on March 15. Her existing delegate lead is so big, he would have to win all remaining contests with at least 60 percent of the vote to overtake her. Any loss, or victory with a smaller margin, puts Sanders farther behind.

Speaking to her supporters in Seattle, Clinton declared she was “very proud to have won Arizona tonight.” Calling attention to the bombings that rocked Belgium on Tuesday morning, the former secretary of state pivoted to the general election and attacked the top Republican candidates for their responses.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/AUs_lAuh0GHLdNU8LMIrdQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9Mjg3NztoPTE4MTY7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://40.media.tumblr.com/6d84cee4a68490f0183f9644ffee2e20/tumblr_inline_o4h5ry9iWD1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Hillary Clinton at Chief Leschi School in Puyallup, Wash., on Tuesday. (Photo: Carolyn Kaster/AP)


“The last thing we need, my friends, are leaders who incite more fear. In the face of terror, America doesn’t panic. We don’t build walls or turn our backs on our allies,” Clinton said. “We can’t throw out everything we know about what works and what doesn’t and start torturing people. What Donald T rump, Ted Cruz and others are suggesting is not only wrong, it’s dangerous.”

At an event in San Diego, shortly after Clinton’s win in Arizona was announced, Sanders made a speech emphasizing that he began the primaries as an underdog.

“When we began this campaign about 10 months ago, we were 3 percent in the polls, about 70 points behind Secretary Clinton. As of today, last poll that I saw, we are 5 points behind, and we’re gaining,” Sanders said, before adding, “We have now won 10 primaries and caucuses and, unless I’m very mistaken, we’re going to win a couple more tonight.”

Massive turnout in Arizona led to long lines at the polls, and there were still people waiting to vote after news organizations projected the results. On Twitter, the Sanders campaign posted a message urging Arizonans to “stay in line.”

“Every vote counts,” the tweet said.

Though the delegate math appears daunting for Sanders, he has indicated that he is in the race for the long haul. Sanders and his campaign believe some of the upcoming states on the primary calendar, particularly in the Pacific Northwest, are more favorable to him. In an email to supporters on Tuesday, Sanders’ campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, said they “said all along that March 15 would be the high-water mark for Hillary Clinton’s campaign.”

“Now the map shifts in our favor, and we’re going to begin clawing back delegates in state after state until we capture the lead on June 7,” Weaver wrote.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/clinton-edges-closer-to-nomination-with-arizona-033001123.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/clinton-edges-closer-to-nomination-with-arizona-033001123.html)



Note the (rather scary) picture of Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders not shown at all.  Typical.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 23, 2016, 03:49:39 PM
There was a picture circulated with Mr Sanders winning Utah news that I didn't even recognize the guy. 

I'll see if I can dig it up. 


Mrs Clinton seems to get a lot of rather scary pics lately. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 23, 2016, 05:50:33 PM
1)It was sad but predictable that most of the candidates had to use yesterday's tragedy as a political football.

2) I gotta agree with Obama above. When you put it that way, our democracy really has come a long way, considering that when the Constitution was drafted and adopted, blacks were property, and women weren't even supposed to own property, unless they were widows. Neither could even vote.

3) Crap. My winner take all primary is coming up, and unless Gov. Walker endorses Kasich, it looks like my only choice will be to hold my nose and vote for Cruz.

4) I was watching the primary election coverage on CNN last night, and Rachel Madow was lamenting the loss of candidates like Governors Walker and Perry. The guest said it was because [Sleezebag] got all of the news coverage. She said he got all of that  coverage because he was newsworthy. I had to laugh
 aloud. I think she doesn't know the difference between "news" and "ratings."

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 23, 2016, 05:59:45 PM
Dr. Madow is worth listening to, but she's over in her own corner of reality like a lot of people...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 23, 2016, 11:57:32 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/23/fox-news-poll-cruz-kasich-ahead-clinton-in-2016-hypothetical-matchups.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/23/fox-news-poll-cruz-kasich-ahead-clinton-in-2016-hypothetical-matchups.html)

This was recent, and they asked a lot of hypothetical questions.

Highlights ( margin of error 3%)-
GOP vs. Clinton
Kasich +11
Cruz +3
The Leader -11

GOP vs. Bernie
Kasich +1
Cruz -4
The Leader -14

"Almost half of all voters would feel “scared” if [Sleezebag] (49 percent) were to win the White House, while 33 percent say the same about Clinton.  [Sleezebag] has the largest number of Republicans saying they would feel scared if he wins (25 percent), while Kasich has the smallest (7 percent)."

I'm having horrific cut and paste lag on the Fox website. Put it this way- 64 and 65 percent of the general electorate feel that Clinton and [Sleezebag], respectively, are NOT honest and trustworthy.

The most honest and trustworthy? Bernie edges out Kasich.

Also, only 11% feel confident about the state of American politics, compared to 30% who feel that way about the economy.

Lots of information here. Even though polls don't make me right, they do make me feel validated.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 24, 2016, 12:06:30 AM
I wouldn't trust that source if they claimed the sun just set in the west - and I saw it do that just now...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 24, 2016, 12:45:37 AM
I wouldn't trust that source if they claimed the sun just set in the west - and I saw it do that just now...

That is as may be.

Kasich +11 vs. Hillary is consistent with previous polls on the subject.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 24, 2016, 12:55:50 AM
Yah; I just had to take the shot at Fox, a propaganda channel that frequently spreads lies...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 24, 2016, 03:36:10 PM
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/1655929_1063070277083064_6930254233887249112_n.jpg?oh=4f8c43dee6c31f68839a7b41b555ace9&oe=5786D40D)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 24, 2016, 06:17:12 PM
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/145309 (http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/145309)   Here's one from 2012 on the subject of open political conventions.

3-26-12 The Myth of "Brokered" Conventions
by Leo P. Ribuffo, who teaches history at George Washington University and is writing a history of the Carter presidency. - See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/145309#sthash.SCHWNyDo.dpuf (http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/145309#sthash.SCHWNyDo.dpuf)

A quick quiz.

Question 1: Who were the last two presidential nominees lacking a majority at the end of the first roll call at their party conventions?

Correct answer: Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower and Democrat Adlai Stevenson in 1952. Eisenhower's nomination followed immediately when Minnesota, pledged to its former governor Harold Stassen (at that point still a serious political figure), switched its votes. Stevenson, who had declared his candidacy only a few days earlier, did not win until the third ballot.

Question 2: Who was the last candidate to carry his fight to the convention and come within 117 votes of defeating an incumbent president?

Answer: Ronald Reagan in 1976.

The 1950s and 1970s probably do not seem so long ago to most adults.  Even those born later usually remember conversations with their parents and grandparents. The main exception to this practice seems to be our reigning political pundits, for whom only events since 1980 at the latest count as recent and relevant. This short-term perspective badly distorts our understanding of so-called brokered conventions.

Although the term's origins remain obscure the disreputable connotations are apparent. The Republican convention of 1920 is often cited to underscore the sordid. In February of that year, Senator Warren Harding's campaign manager, Harry Daugherty, predicted that after the convention deadlocked worried party leaders meeting in a "smoke filled room" would choose Harding as a compromise. In June no candidate received a majority on the first four ballots, party leaders did confer into the wee hours, and Harding won both the nomination and the election. A corrupt administration followed. Unfortunately for the legend, several other compromise candidates were also put forward in many smoke filled rooms that night, Harding was not nominated until the tenth ballot, and the instant legend was quickly disputed by skeptical journalists and several of the alleged power brokers. Historians have debunked the "smoked filled room" myth for a half century.

Legends aside, five points should be remembered about contested conventions. First, as my proposed neutral alternate adjective suggests, nomination by way of a contested convention was a respectable strategy from the 1830s, when conventions became the standard way of nominating candidates, until at least the 1960s. Democratic front runners Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932 and John Kennedy in 1960 knew that their support might dissipate unless they won quickly. Their chief rivals, Al Smith and Lyndon Johnson respectively, hoped that it would. In both cases effective floor managers kept wavering delegates in line. Kennedy won on the first ballot but not until the alphabetical roll call reached Wyoming; Roosevelt won on the fourth when the Democrats still required a two-thirds majority.

The most important beneficiaries of a contested convention strategy were Abraham Lincoln in 1860 and Woodrow Wilson in 1912. Wilson professed to believe that any candidate who reached a majority should be nominated even if he fell short of the two thirds required by his party. Wilson changed his mind when the front runner, House Speaker Champ Clark, reached a majority. He held out and won on the forty-sixth ballot. Second, though deals were ubiquitous, often about jobs up to the level of the vice presidency -- Lincoln and Wilson's managers were especially skillful in this respect -- personal friendship and ideological affinity also affected shifts. Stevenson won after the withdrawal of his fellow urbane internationalist New Dealer, Averell Harriman, whom he was more or less supporting a week earlier.

Third, conventions were, are, and probably should be about more than nominations. Senator Richard Russell, the genteel face of racial segregation, accumulated large numbers of delegates at the 1948 and 1952 Democratic conventions in order to demonstrate the power of the white South. Jesse Jackson used the same tactic on behalf of racial equality and a "rainbow coalition" in 1984 and 1988. Whether or not Senator Edward Kennedy actually thought he could shake loose Jimmy Carter's delegates at an "open convention" in 1980, he wanted to make a vivid case for liberalism.

Fourth, even leaving aside Lincoln and Wilson, compromise candidates were never as obscure as the mythology suggests. The first "dark horse" nominee, Democrat James K. Polk in 1844, was Andrew Jackson's protégé and had served as speaker of the House and governor of Tennessee. John W. Davis, chosen by the Democrats  on the one hundred and third ballot in 1924, had been ambassador to Great Britain and ranked as the foremost Supreme Court litigator of the twentieth century. Warren Harding had keynoted a previous Republican convention. Indeed, Harding in retrospect looks like a blessing compared to General Leonard Wood, the front runner he defeated in 1920. As commander of American troops fighting to control the Philippines earlier in the century, Wood had suggested the annihilation of all Filipino Muslims, a group particularly strong in its resistance, and troops under his command massacred unarmed Muslims in 1906. The Harding scandals look benign in comparison.

No one can predict whether or not the Republicans will have a contested convention this year, either because Mitt Romney's more conservative rivals might have a chance in combination to deny him the nomination or because they want to make a vivid ideological statement. But, fifth, we should be wary of commentators who say that such an event will not occur. The same sort of commentators -- indeed, in some cases the same reigning pundits -- doubted in 2000 that a presidential nominee could lose the popular vote but still win the White House.

After all, when had that happened before?

Correct answer: John Quincy Adams over Andrew Jackson in 1824, Rutherford B. Hayes over Samuel J. Tilden in 1876, and Benjamin Harrison over Grover Cleveland in 1888 -- not to mention the close calls in 1880, 1884, 1916, 1948, 1960, and 1976. "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This historical context sets up my next article-
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 24, 2016, 06:34:45 PM
http://injo.com/2016/03/567478-4-reasons-nevertrump-stop-telling-john-kasich-drop-out/ (http://injo.com/2016/03/567478-4-reasons-nevertrump-stop-telling-john-kasich-drop-out/)

"4 Reasons #NeverTrump Conservatives Should Stop Telling John Kasich to Drop Out of the 2016 Race
 By Justin Green

There’s a new theory going around that John Kasich should drop out of the race to help Ted Cruz beat Donald [Sleezebag].

While it sounds nice for the #NeverTrump crowd, it’s wrong for four reasons.

1) No One Can “Beat” [Sleezebag]

To win the Republican nomination outright requires a majority of delegates to the national convention, making the magic number 1,237.

After Tuesday’s primaries in Utah and Arizona, the math is formidably in [Sleezebag]’s favor.

Kasich’s ability to win the nomination outright has been mathematically eliminated, with Cruz teetering on the same result.

The Texas Republican needs more than 80% of the remaining delegates to lock up the nomination. As Kasich adviser John Weaver told Independent Journal Review, Cruz wouldn’t be able to capture all of those delegates:


“even if Donald [Sleezebag] was put in an insane asylum”

The mission is for Cruz and Kasich to deny [Sleezebag] a majority of delegates, forcing an open convention in July. To stop that, [Sleezebag] needs to unify more of the party around his campaign.

But if Cruz or Kasich pick up steam, [Sleezebag] will end up just shy of a majority of delegates by convention time, according to FiveThirtyEight.

2) [Sleezebag] Benefits Most if Anyone Else Drops Out

There’s a idea running through conservative politics that one candidate will be able to consolidate the anti-[Sleezebag] votes and defeat The Donald.

In reality, the math does not support that premise. A poll released Wednesday showed that [Sleezebag] would gain support if either Cruz or Kasich dropped out.

Rather than building the anti-[Sleezebag] coalition, a two-man race would put [Sleezebag] closer to the 50% mark that would effectively end the race.

Additionally, in the week after Marco Rubio left the GOP race, [Sleezebag]’s numbers went up more than any other candidate. The Real Clear Politics average of polls shows this.

Former Mitt Romney adviser Stuart Stevens told Independent Journal Review earlier this month:


“Giving voters more choices makes it easier. If Kasich was out of the race, would [Sleezebag] be doing better? Yes”

Stevens, who was speaking before Rubio exited the race on March 15th, added:


“A hypothetical world in which Cruz wins 55% and [Sleezebag] gets 45% … is more favorable for [Sleezebag] than a world in which [Sleezebag] gets 40 delegates and Cruz gets 35 and Rubio gets 20.”

3) Kasich is Far More Competitive Than Cruz in Many Remaining States

Ted Cruz was a clear second to Donald [Sleezebag] for the first half of the race, securing more than three times as many delegates as Kasich.

Cruz’s chances, as Weaver told Independent Journal Review, aren’t as rosy on the West Coast and in New England:


“Are you gonna tell me that Ted Cruz is going to do well in Rhode Island, or Delaware, or Manhattan, or Maryland, New Jersey, Oregon and Washington?”

Cruz trails [Sleezebag] badly in polls conducted in New York and New Jersey, and can be expected to struggle in Rhode Island and Connecticut. Kasich is far more competitive with [Sleezebag] in Pennsylvania, according to the latest poll from the Keystone State.

Those five states account for 264 delegates, and a Cruz-v-[Sleezebag] race would likely sacrifice the lion’s share of those delegates to The Donald.

While there is a chance that Kasich remaining in the race would make Cruz wins more difficult in states like Montana, Nebraska and New Mexico, the delegate math suggests it’s worth the risk. Kasich’s victories would reduce the margin of [Sleezebag] wins in the Northeast.

4) It’s Got to Be a Team Effort


What probably best described the current state of the race was his “running out of gas” analogy:


“It’s like they’re in a car and they’re trying to drive 100 miles and they’ve got 20 miles left of gas and they’re debating whether or not they should stop for gas.”

Republicans spent last summer denying [Sleezebag]’s potential. Then last fall, they scrambled to push each other out to be [Sleezebag]’s sole competitor. Finally, the first part of 2016 left the GOP reeling, as [Sleezebag] racked up win after win.

Now that [Sleezebag] is within sight of the nomination, Cruz and Kasich face a choice. They can keep going after each other, as they did before the March 15th primaries, or they can train all their firepower on turning out voters.

Stevens, who is not affiliated with a campaign this cycle, promotes the latter approach, particularly when it comes to states like California.

To stop [Sleezebag] from running away with a clean nomination, the best option is for Cruz and Kasich to stay in the race all the way through July.






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 24, 2016, 07:01:03 PM
So here, how is Kasich staying in going to help keep T rump from the nomination from a delegate standpoint? 

This question is coming from a guy in a state Kasich SHOULD have won, but the local republican leadership all universally come out and said a vote for Kasich is a vote for T rump, you need to rally behind Cruz and hope Kasich comes out of the convention at the end. 

Kasich and Cruz split more votes than Kasich and T rump?


Maybe the worry was with Utah's oddball laws that someone had to win by more than 50% to make sure [Sleezebag] got nothing here.  I don't know. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 25, 2016, 12:27:45 AM
So here, how is Kasich staying in going to help keep T rump from the nomination from a delegate standpoint? 

This question is coming from a guy in a state Kasich SHOULD have won, but the local republican leadership all universally come out and said a vote for Kasich is a vote for T rump, you need to rally behind Cruz and hope Kasich comes out of the convention at the end. 

Kasich and Cruz split more votes than Kasich and T rump?


Maybe the worry was with Utah's oddball laws that someone had to win by more than 50% to make sure T rump got nothing here.  I don't know.

It's the Romney Strategy. Do whatever denies [Sleezebag] the most delegates. Romney  endorsed Rubio in Florida, Kassich in Ohio, and Cruz in Utah. Rubio failed, but Kasich won ( both winner take all ) and since Cruz got over 50%, as you say, [Sleezebag] got nothing.

Rules vary state by state. Some award delegates by congressional district. Some award proportionately. Some have a 20% popular vote threshold.

The trouble is that Cruz ( I can't remember a sitting senator who couldn't get a single endorsement from his colleagues ) is so controversial, that it's really hard to rally around him. When Rubio suspended his campaign, some of his support shifted to [Sleezebag]. If Kasich were to drop out, some of his support would rather stay home or consider [Sleezebag] than vote for Cruz.

The Leader has a head start in delegates. If he moves up to approximately half of the popular vote, The Leader seals the deal before the convention.

To update/paraphrase the article -
“A hypothetical world in which Cruz wins 55% of the delegates and T rump gets 45% … is more favorable for T rump than a world in which T rump gets 40% of the  delegates and Cruz gets 35 and Kasich gets 25.”

Kasich has a better chance of winning in the Northeast than Cruz. Head to head, The Leader would give him a sound beating.  Together, [Sleezebag] is stuck below 50%

I predicted that [Sleezebag] would win outright before the convention, but I hope I'm wrong. Kassich's only hope is an open convention. He's my only hope of defeating Hilary.

 Funny, before this election cycle started, the thought that she would be on my tv every night making my blood boil was my worst fear. Now it's President [Sleezebag], followed by Republican presidential nominee [Sleezebag].


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 25, 2016, 12:55:21 AM
This is a stupid country full of stupid, stupid bigots, and I am ashamed.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 25, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
Quote
Bernie Sanders Says Victory Means More Than Beating Hillary Clinton
Mic
By Luke Brinker  3 hours ago



Facing long odds of overcoming Hillary Clinton's significant delegate lead, Bernie Sanders is a long way from the heady days following his landslide win in New Hampshire, when there was talk of burning down Clinton's firewall in Nevada and South Carolina — setting the former secretary of state up for a repeat of her 2008 loss.

Clinton's uneven but undeniable comeback has Democrats thinking ahead to a post-Sanders world, and while he vows to remain in the race through the final nominating contests in June, he's already articulating what he'd like to hear from Clinton, should she emerge as the Democratic standard-bearer.

"If I can't make it — and we're going to try as hard as we can until the last vote is cast — we want to completely revitalize the Democratic Party and make it a party of the people rather than one of large campaign contributors," Sanders told the Young Turks host Cenk Uygur.

Sanders said he wants to see Clinton throw her support behind a "Medicare-for-all" single-payer health care system, a federal minimum wage of $15 per hour, new infrastructure spending, a "vigorous effort" to tackle climate change, tuition-free public college, ending corporate tax loopholes and imposing new regulations on Wall Street.

Still, Sanders told Uygur he's not merely running a protest campaign, and that he's mounting a campaign focused on securing the Democratic nomination and the presidency.

But should he come up short in that effort, the 74-year-old Vermont senator doesn't sound like a man vying for a role as national spokesman of the American left.

"I'm not big into being a leader," Sanders said. "I'd much prefer to see a lot of grassroots activism."

Watch Sanders' full interview with Uygur below. The comments on Clinton come around 17:30:

Bernie Sanders | The Young Turks Interview (FULL) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ggFitmOTSok#)


http://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-says-victory-means-124900364.html (http://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-says-victory-means-124900364.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 25, 2016, 04:31:31 PM
I don't see Bernie's solutions as very realistic, myself. 

His local radio ad focused on the banks.  How they took the bailout and just got bigger.  How he wants to "break them apart".  It's a good idea in theory.  REALLY MESSY in practice.  I think a lot of his position falls into that messy in practice problem. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 25, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
This could well be - but there's no denying that the current system is borked and probably not the best balance of interests for the people...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 25, 2016, 06:08:04 PM
Oh, no argument there. 

"The status is NOT quo." 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 25, 2016, 06:25:15 PM
Yep - and since he's not going to actually win, the question is moot.  As I keep saying, the stupid/hate political trend in this country needs reversing, bad; and I see any success he has as part of fighting that...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 25, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
I once saw a comparison of American and Canadian "panics", recessions, and depressions. The ones in Canada tended to be fewer and far less severe. The reason? Canadian bankers are much more cautious. Why?  Canadian bank failures serve as a warning. Because the American government doesn't like bank failures, and tends to intervene.
So, American bankers seek higher risks and rewards, knowing they have a safety net. Same with the boards of directors.

I can accept the logic of overreacting quickly in a crisis to prevent a snowball. I can understand that sometimes a fortune 500 is "too big to fail" , but if the government has to come to the rescue, why not re-organize things so that there is no next time? When Wachovia and Washington Mutual went down, some of their offices went to Wells Fargo, which was already too big to fail. So now things are potentially worse. The wrong lesson was learned.

I think the solution lies in a long term scheduled roll back of the safety net to where the banks are smaller and spread around enough that the loss of a bank is not a catastrophe. If they want to continue to work with the net, they should divest accordingly.

Of course, my next time theory applies to beach homes, too. IF you want to take a federal disaster deal, that means your Carolina beach house gets removed, it becomes public beach, and planted in native grass. When your California palace gets lost in a mud slide or fire, the same thing, except it gets planted it coastal redwoods or prickly pear. Or you can always carry enough insurance. But, that might only be affordable with tile roofs and stucco. If you want to build in a flood plane, or a storm surge area, you're going to live on stilts, etc. It's not that complicated.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 25, 2016, 07:07:02 PM
The anti-trust laws should actually be enforced...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 26, 2016, 08:21:47 PM
Quote
Garland nomination fight centers around disrespect for Obama, not the judge
Yahoo News
Liz Goodwin  March 25, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/hscPncHzGpjM99ewDptFrQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/4ea379909a2628ab5c93f9397d4434ab/tumblr_inline_o4lwt03Wt01sjed45_1280.jpg)
President Obama with Judge Merrick B. Garland before announcing his nomination to the Supreme Court at the White House, March 16, 2016. (Photo: Mark Wilson/Getty Images)



How do you get the Democratic base fired up about nominating a moderate white man in his 60s to the Supreme Court?

The progressive groups leading the charge in support of Merrick Garland’s nomination think they’ve found the answer. In social media blasts and in-person calls to action around the country, they are casting Republicans’ near-unanimous refusal to consider President Obama’s nominee as part of a history of disrespect and disdain shown to the president — a disrespect that is racially motivated.

“I talk to black audiences, and I say, look, this is part of a larger pattern of disrespect,” said Wade Henderson, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, which is part of the push to get Garland a hearing. “It goes back to when Speaker [Mitch] McConnell says we’re going to make him a one-term president. You have someone like Rep. Joe Wilson [R-S.C.] saying, ‘You lie.’ You have [former Arizona Gov.] Jan Brewer shaking her finger in his face. These are signs of disrespect that would have never been justified with another president. Race is a factor.”

After Antonin Scalia died last month, civil rights groups and members of the Congressional Black Caucus urged the president to nominate a black woman to the court — a historic pick that would have rallied women of color to the cause. When the president took another, less barrier-breaking route, it was unclear whether the left would be as enthusiastic about fighting the inevitable Republican opposition to his choice.

The Democrats vying to replace Obama have seemed lukewarm about his pick. Sen. Bernie Sanders has said he would rather choose his own justice if elected, noting that there are “more progressive judges out there.” Hillary Clinton, whose campaign has been buoyed by support from women of color, dodged a question on Monday about whether she’d keep Garland as her nominee if she were elected and his nomination was still pending. (Asked if he was a good choice, she said he has a “tremendous reputation.”)

But one way to motivate the Democratic base is to point out that Republicans are disrespecting the president — who remains incredibly popular with Democrats — by refusing to even consider his pick. The progressive groups have coalesced around the message “Do your job,” and they emphasize that if Republicans refuse to bring up the nomination, it will be the first time a Supreme Court nominee has ever not been given a vote.

Henderson tells audiences: “He’s the 44th president, not three-fifths of a president.”

“Our members care about Obama as a president and his presidency a great deal,” said Jo Comerford, a campaign director for the progressive grassroots organization MoveOn. “We’ve used the ‘disrespect’ language in our communications to our members because of their loyalty.” Comerford said the GOP opposition to the president is seen by many MoveOn members as an attempt “to undermine his authority and his presidency.”

“It is flagrantly disrespectful, and it is new in the sense that we’ve never seen this kind of rank knee-jerk obstruction to a nominee,” said Stephen Spaulding, legal director of the nonpartisan Common Cause, a nonprofit that promotes accountable government and is also part of the coalition.

MoveOn and the other groups fighting for Garland’s hearing flew airplanes trailing “Do Your Job” banners over several senators’ hometowns as they returned for a two-week recess earlier this week. They plan on meeting senators with demonstrations when they return to the Capitol, as well.

It’s unclear if all the pressure will work. So far, Repubican Sens. Mark Kirk of Illinois, Susan Collins of Maine and Jerry Moran of Kansas have broken with party leadership and said they believe Garland should be granted a hearing. Several other Republican senators, including Pat Toomey of Pennsylania and Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, have said they would meet with Garland as a courtesy but that they don’t believe the Senate should even consider him.

The right is, if anything, more fired up than the left. The National Rifle Association, in particular, is lobbying hard against giving Garland a vote. And as the Washington Post pointed out Thursday, only two people showed up to one of the planned protests against Republican Sen. Ron Johnson in Wisconsin. Inside the event, Johnson offered a personal “guarantee” to his supporters that he would not allow Garland to be elected, eliciting the loudest cheers of the night.

“A lot of people say, ‘Do your job.’ You know what? I’m doing my job!” Johnson said. “We need somebody that can replace Scalia.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/garland-nomination-fight-centers-around-disrespect-184014332.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/garland-nomination-fight-centers-around-disrespect-184014332.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 26, 2016, 08:38:42 PM
Quote
Some Sanders supporters say it’s ‘Bernie or Bust’ and they will never vote for Hillary Clinton
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  March 26, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IZPHdBp17qMd4UY942pS6Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/bc7cea8c98b14ec71897a8e474ff14c5/tumblr_inline_o4nlbbMXJ11tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders greets his supporters at a rally at Key Arena in Seattle, March 20, 2016. (Photo: David Ryder/Reuters)



Bernie Sanders has dubbed his presidential campaign a “political revolution,” but some of his supporters are rebelling against the very party he is hoping to lead.


A voluble group of die-hard Sanders backers is vowing online that it’s “Bernie or Bust,” saying they will never support his presidential primary opponent — and, at this point, likely Democratic nominee — Hillary Clinton.

Nearly two months after voting began in the Democratic primary, Clinton has racked up a lead among pledged party delegates that makes a Sanders victory increasingly implausible. In seeming recognition of this mathematical challenge and the need to begin aiming fire outside the party, Sanders in recent weeks has pivoted away from Clinton and toward Republican frontrunner Donald [Sleezebag]. Yet at the same time Sanders is making the case that he’s actually more electable in a matchup with [Sleezebag], he has also started talking about the circumstances under which he would endorse Clinton. His senior adviser, Tad Devine, has even suggested that Sanders would consider serving as Clinton’s running mate.

Despite these glimmers of reconciliation with his rival, Sanders may have unleashed a rebellion that will be beyond his power to control when it comes time to unify the party. Some “Bernie or Bust” stalwarts say they won’t back Clinton even if Sanders joins her ticket.

After Clinton’s string of victories in the first weeks of March, this weekend begins a stretch of the primary calendar that’s expected to kick off with wins for Sanders on Saturday in the Alaska, Washington state and Hawaii caucuses. This momentum means there’s little reason for some Sanders backers to reconsider their primary season passions anytime soon.

Russ Belville is an Internet radio host and marijuana legalization advocate based in Portland, Ore. In late February, he wrote a column for the Huffington Post laying out the bones of the “Bernie or Bust” position. In a conversation with Yahoo News earlier this month, Belville said Clinton couldn’t get his vote even by joining forces with Sanders.

“If Bernie Sanders were to accept a vice presidential bid from Hillary Clinton, it would so disillusion me to the integrity of Bernie Sanders that I don’t know what I would do. I can’t even conceive of him accepting that offer,” Belville said.

James Scolari, a photographer in Los Angeles, echoed that view.

“I would never vote for Hillary Clinton, and, God, I hope Sanders wouldn’t serve as her running mate,” Scolari said. “I don’t believe he would.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/pWxFidDK_sO5NY3kN6SMLQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/c826951b8e8d3d690aca4951239ef4c0/tumblr_inline_o4nl9utvVt1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
A lady has her picture taken with a poster at a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I- Vt., Wednesday, March 23, 2016, in Los Angeles. (AP Photo/Michael Owen Baker)


Clinton’s campaign declined to comment on this story. The “Bernie or Bust” voters who spoke with Yahoo News cited several areas where they view Clinton’s policies as insufficiently progressive, including her stance on military intervention in the Middle East, fracking, the minimum wage, Wall Street regulation and campaign finance reform. They also pointed to instances where she has changed her positions, such as on gay marriage, the Keystone pipeline and the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

“I just can’t see myself voting for someone that’s a warmongering person,” cinematographer Andy Kirn of Los Angeles said of Clinton. “There are certain things about Clinton that are so unsavory and so undesirable that I can’t see myself legitimizing that with a vote, and I don’t think I’m alone there.”

Belville argues that Clinton is a “Rockefeller Republican” in Democratic clothing. “I have longed for the return of moderate Republicans, just not in the Democratic Party,” Belville told Yahoo News. “I think my basic objection is: I’m on the left. I’d like there to be a party that represents me.”

Michael Moore, a 36-year-old Iowan who volunteered for Sanders in his home state and neighboring Nebraska, said he won’t vote for Clinton if she’s the party’s nominee.

“She has always embodied whatever was most politically expedient at the moment, and she has come very clearly on the … neoliberal corpus of hawkish foreign policy and pro-corporate policies that very often harm individual Americans,” Moore said.

Data compiled by Twitter for Yahoo News shows there were about 110,000 total tweets sent with the #bernieorbust hashtag in the month from Feb. 8 and March 8. The number of messages peaked on Feb. 28, the day Clinton began to pull ahead with a huge win in South Carolina’s Democratic primary. A search on Facebook showed that as of Friday afternoon, there were about 100,000 conversations with the #bernieorbust hashtag on that site.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/lLU5_f6BxSAUYtZk4Xn42g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/6e4357fb713bb3e380f1a0b645238a50/tumblr_inline_o4nlcpOkYX1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
A child holds a sign supporting Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., while awaiting his arrival at the San Diego Convention Center Tuesday, March 22, 2016. (AP Photo/Lenny Ignelzi)


“Bernie or Bust” is not a position Sanders would want his supporters to take, says liberal radio talk show host and author Bill Press, a longtime ally of Sanders’ who hosted an early strategy meeting for Sanders’ campaign at his home in Washington, D.C.

“I do not belong in that camp. … I don’t think Bernie belongs in that camp. I haven’t talked to him about it, but I’m pretty sure he does not belong in that camp,” Press told Yahoo News. “He told me early on, the first time we talked about the possibility that he might run for president, that … if he’s not the nominee, he would do nothing to hurt the … Democratic nominee’s chances. He would do nothing, in other words, that might help a Republican get the White House.”

Sanders is not exactly a part of the mainstream Democratic establishment. For more than two decades in Congress, Sanders identified as an independent, though he generally voted with Democrats. He only officially registered as a member of the party last year after announcing his presidential bid. Naturally, many of Sanders’ supporters are independent voters rather than party stalwarts, as well.

Press is similarly distant from the party establishment. Last month, he published a book that made the case that President Obama “let progressives down.” The back cover featured an admiring blurb from Sanders. Nevertheless, Press is adamant that his fellow liberal Sanders supporters should back Clinton if she manages to win the primary.

“Just to make it clear, I’m for Bernie. If Bernie doesn’t get the nomination, in a New York heartbeat I’m for Hillary, enthusiastically. Enthusiastically!” said Press, repeating himself for emphasis.

Press argued there is “too much at stake” for progressives to war among themselves and potentially aid a Republican candidate. Indeed, “Bernie or Bust” has generated backlash from liberals who believe the phenomenon could benefit the GOP. This criticism has been particularly fierce since Donald [Sleezebag] is currently leading the Republican pack and many Democrats view him as an especially dangerous candidate.

However, many of the “Bernie or Bust” voters who spoke to Yahoo News are undeterred by the prospect of a [Sleezebag] presidency. Matt Rogina, an assistant chef’s instructor in California, said he’s more concerned about sending a message to the Democratic leadership.

“If it hands the election to Donald [Sleezebag], that is the direct fault of the Democratic national party. They’re the ones that have set the policy, they’re the establishment, they’re the status quo that we’re tired of,” Rogina explained. “We’re tired of them pretty much being another corporate party, being a ‘Republican light’ party.”

Belville, the radio host who wrote the “Bernie or Bust” column, argued that electing Clinton could cement American politics in a “far right/center right” state. Though he acknowledged [Sleezebag] could “do some dastardly things” in office, Belville believes those problems “would open up a lot of people’s minds to more progressive solutions” and move the country to the left.

Moore, the Sanders campaign volunteer from Iowa, is also unconcerned about the possibility he could help the GOP by hewing to “Bernie or Bust.”

“I’m not given to voting based on fear,” said Moore. “I believe that the two parties have, through the use of this fear of the other side, brought us to where we are today, where they throw up horrible candidates who are part of the oligarchic system, basically just two sides of the same coin.”

Scolari, the photographer, took things a step further. He said he plans to vote for [Sleezebag] if Sanders bows out.

“To me, ‘Bernie or Bust’ means I will not vote for Hillary Clinton under any circumstances. And if that means I get a President [Sleezebag], I feel like he’ll be farther left than she would be anyway,” Scolari said. “At least he’s a Beltway outsider. … He’s a lunatic, but I think he’s probably going to be pretty easily handled by a professional Cabinet.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/tyH7cD3CkfLwt.EZTfWTIA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAwO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://41.media.tumblr.com/c940d471c00f3527d087cc9b662e378e/tumblr_inline_o4nledhUzI1tedrp5_1280.jpg)
Supporters wave signs as Bernie Sanders speaks during a campaign rally at West High School on March 21, 2016, in Salt Lake City. (Photo: George Frey/Getty Images)


Primary season divisions leading to vows to never back the opponent are neither unprecedented nor restricted to Democrats. Some conservatives are currently rallying around a #nevertrump hashtag and declaring their plans to refuse to back the Republican frontrunner. And when Clinton lost the Democratic presidential primary to Obama in 2008, some of her supporters promised not to back the future president. These Clinton loyalists called themselves PUMAs, an acronym for “Party Unity My Ass.”

Obama survived the PUMA rebellion — and data shows Clinton’s standing within the party is similar to what his was at this point during the 2008 election.

A Bloomberg/L.A. Times poll from February 2008 showed that Obama had a net favorability of 78 percent among Democrats while just 13 percent viewed him unfavorably. An ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Tuesday found that Clinton has a nearly identical net favorability of 74 percent among Democrats. While her net unfavorability was 25 percent, higher than Obama’s, she has universal name recognition among Democrats. In 2008, about 10 percent of party members said they had not heard of Obama or did not know enough to have an opinion.

Press cited his experience in a past liberal primary rebellion as evidence of why he won’t vote “Bernie or Bust.”

“My very first political campaign was 1968, [Eugene] McCarthy for president. … When McCarthy was denied the nomination and it went to Hubert Humphrey … a whole bunch of us, we all boycotted the election,” Press recounted. “We didn’t vote for Humphrey. … And so what did we get? We got Richard Nixon. Lesson learned.”

Though he disagrees with the “Bernie or Bust” strategy, Press said he understands the sentiment behind it.

“We have two centrist parties right now, and the Democratic Party has become — not as much as the Republicans — but very much the party of corporate America and Wall Street,” said Press, adding, “I think Bernie’s mission is to win the presidency but also to push the progressive agenda and get the Democratic Party to adopt the progressive agenda.”

Indeed, all of the “Bernie or Bust” voters who talked to Yahoo News said they voted for Obama in 2008 and were disappointed when his administration was not sufficiently progressive.

“I voted for him twice, and I respect the man, and I think he was in some ways a splendid president, but he didn’t end the Bush doctrine and the terrible war on terror,” Scolari said of Obama. “In fact, he expanded drone warfare in a way I find shameful and shocking. … He didn’t get Guantánamo closed.”

Kirn, the cinematographer, said he was aiming for someone like Sanders when he voted for Obama in 2008.

“We were thinking we were getting what Bernie is,” Kirn said. “Well, he didn’t follow through.”

Moore, the Sanders campaign volunteer, said he has been drawn to a more activist approach since voting for Obama. That attracted him to Sanders — and it’s also why he won’t follow along if Sanders lines up behind Clinton.

“In the process of going from 2008 to the present, I’ve kind of come into the revolution that was part of the Occupy movement and is now being embodied in the Bernie Sanders campaign,” Moore explained. “But that revolution isn’t Bernie’s revolution. He is just the current battle in the revolution, and if he doesn’t stand with the revolution, then I have no reason to support him.”
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/some-sanders-supporters-say-its-bernie-or-bust-155205844.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/some-sanders-supporters-say-its-bernie-or-bust-155205844.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on March 26, 2016, 08:58:24 PM
I've only voted in three presidential elections (because doing otherwise would have been illegal), but I'm already too cynical to have that kind of poster-waving affection for a candidate. They don't represent you, or speak to you, or care about you. And not just because all politicians are scum (true-ish, but not the point here), but because anyone who wants widespread general support simply can't afford to have interests that perfectly align with a single person. So the odds that they do are essentially zero.

Voting is not a subtle tool. It says this person is bad, this person is bad, this person is bad, and this person is good. It's not a subtle tool and shouldn't be used to accomplish subtle aims. And the differences between two candidates of the same party are likely pretty subtle compared to the differences between candidates of different parties, so using your vote to split that hair is, well, like using a sword to do surgery; you're probably just going to make things worse.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 26, 2016, 09:43:27 PM
Note that many of the people interviewed talked about being supporters of what Sanders stands for, not necessarily Sanders.  I do read what I post.  Note also my favorite line in the piece, when the fellow called HRC a "Rockefeller Republican” ;lol  (Though I'd say it was unfair to Rocky, who wasn't that far right.)

It's a pretty clear primary choice, all right...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 26, 2016, 11:41:59 PM
It's so gratifying to hear people with different political opinions share my views of Hillary.

I suppose I should be worried, that people who feel the Bern could stay home, or even jump to [Sleezebag] in the fall. Before I read this I read that women prefer Hillary 55% to [Sleezebag]'s 35%, so that has me in a good mood.

Off to check my grill...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 27, 2016, 02:24:03 AM
Yo - I'm demonstratively not a big fan of HRC myself, going back about 15 years now - but anybody who couldn't bring themselves to vote for the Lesser of Two Evils in a Hilbot v. Pig contest needs to seriously rethink their worldview.

I'd vote CRUZ versus the Pig, if it magically came to that as the only choices - and it's really hard to believe there's someone in contention more loathsome and fundamentally wrong for this country than CruzThat's how stark the choice is - and considering doing some third party crap or staying home in the ugly face of the Pig because they dislike Mrs. Clinton THAT much is just crazed.  -Sorry, but there it is.  The Pig IS that bad.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 27, 2016, 05:50:16 AM
Yeah. Me and the Mrs. were running errands together today and discussing it.

That's where we are- voting Cruz to stop The Leader. If it comes down to Cruz-Clinton that's still a Gozer the Gozarian "choose the form of the destructor" choice, with Clinton the possible Lesser of Two Evils.

I don't trust Clinton because she's so insincere. I don't Trust Ted because he's so shrewd. Well that and his Trusted/ Trust Ted logo. It's as bad as The Leader saying "trust me" and "believe me" all of the time. Any stranger who tells you to trust them rather than asks for the opportunity to earn it really shouldn't be trusted.
Then there's the matter of all of his colleagues refusing to endorse him because he has a history of throwing them under the bus.

I was going to say something about The Leader, about how my wife's analysis concludes he's a liar. About how mine concludes he's an egomaniac.  ( insert we can both be right comment here )

But I'm thinking it's a pretty sad day when I'd rather have a socialist nominate the future Supreme Court Justices than either party's frontrunner or the guy I'm about to vote for in the Republican Primary.
Sure, Cruz has some religious principles, but the problem is that he gets confused about the whole rendering unto Caesar thing/ establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 27, 2016, 07:54:04 PM
It's also a sad day when the Automobile brand Rambler is no more, because they should come out with a special "RAMBLER [Sleezebag]" model IN HIS HONOR.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/21/a-transcript-of-donald-trumps-meeting-with-the-washington-post-editorial-board/?postshare=6161459055362471&tid=ss_fb (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/21/a-transcript-of-donald-trumps-meeting-with-the-washington-post-editorial-board/?postshare=6161459055362471&tid=ss_fb)

Early onset Alzheimer's ?
Attention Deficit Disorder?
You Decide!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 28, 2016, 07:23:42 PM
I early voted for Cruz today, because Wisconsin is a winner take all delegates deal. It's the best chance to thwart The Leader.

I've been wondering about the strong anti-[Sleezebag] sentiment hereabouts.

I've concluded that it goes back to the best predictor of a [Sleezebag] supporter- those who feel they don't have a political voice. Well here, you get to express yourself. Primaries are open, elections can be held more than spring and fall. They don't flinch at special elections. We had the gubernatorial recall. We have various radio talk shows. It's a purple state. It's pretty hard to be oblivious and indifferent here. Somebody shares your opinion.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 28, 2016, 07:28:44 PM
How are you coping with the nausea?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 29, 2016, 02:22:36 AM
So far, Cruz is hitting us pretty hard, but any calls that get through can be added to our robocaller zaplist.

Sure, The Shrew and the guys are around, but Obama has been here so often in previous years that we simply learn to avoid the areas they are appearing in, and fortunately we aren't flying at this time.

Oh! Heidi Cruz has been around for a while talking to small groups. According to the local tv reporters, she simply speaks from the heart extemporaneously, and everybody seems to like her.

Got a hit piece on The Leader in the mail, which cited references.

They are set up for early voting as if it were already election day, but it's only at the local city hall. Still it's set to handle about 5X as many voters as I've ever seen.

As for TV, nothing like when I was in Charleston....yet.  Just saw the map of downtown street closures for the debate. Just saw a local poll- it's getting really tight. I didn't hear a margin of error, but I'd guess it's statistically a 3 way tie.


[Sleezebag] called into Wisconsin's most popular conservative talk radio host, not knowing he was #NEVERTRUMP. When the host, Charlie Sykes, immediately called him out on the lack of presidential comportment in tweeting about Mrs. Cruz, he said he was retaliating, when pressed about whether it would be fair to hold Mrs. [Sleezebag]  accountable for anything his supporters did or said, he asked to talk about the issues. First Sykes asked him about all of the negative things he said about Wisconsin when retaliating against Scott Walker, and whether he wanted to apologize. [Sleezebag] weaseled and said it was straight out of Time magazine. He'd apologize for reading it after they apologized for printing it.

When they addressed a national issue, Sykes politely pointed out that [Sleezebag] failed to answer the question. That's the way it went... typical [Sleezebag] responses, except  he was getting called out on them, the way I would expect the press to do.

Gee, Walker won 3 elections here in 4 years, don't you think that would give [Sleezebag]'s crew of "Top people" a clue about Wisconsin Republicans and issues? Well, maybe The Leader's  People aren't the experts he purports them to be.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 29, 2016, 02:30:29 AM
The article I read about that radio interview indicated that he totally FRIED the Pig.

-Which IS how you cook bacon, after all...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on March 29, 2016, 01:33:17 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKCN0WV03X (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKCN0WV03X)

Quote
President Barack Obama on Monday laid some of the blame for the tone of the presidential campaign on political journalism that has been pinched by shrinking newsroom budgets and cheapened by a focus on retweets and likes on social media.

In a speech to a journalism awards dinner, Obama urged journalists to ask tougher questions of the candidates vying to be president. He voiced dismay over the vulgar rhetoric, violence at rallies and unrealistic campaign pledges that have continually grabbed headlines, in a thinly veiled reference to Republican front-runner Donald [Sleezebag].

"The number one question I'm getting as I travel around the world or talk to world leaders right now is, 'What is happening in America?' about our politics," Obama said, describing international alarm over whether the United States will continue to function effectively.



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inRead invented by Teads

"It's not because around the world people have not seen crazy politics. It is that they understand America is the place where you can't afford completely crazy politics," he said.
 
"When our elected officials and our political campaigns become entirely untethered to reason and facts and analysis, when it doesn't matter what's true and what's not, that makes it all but impossible for us to make good decisions on behalf of future generations," Obama said.

He said the media landscape has changed since his first presidential campaign in 2008, when "there was a price if you said one thing and then did something completely different.
 
"The question is, in the current media environment, is that still true? Does that still hold?" he said.

He said news organizations have a responsibility to dig deeper despite the faster pace of "this smartphone age" and steep financial pressures in the news business.
 
Voters "would be better served if billions of dollars in free media came with serious accountability, especially when politicians issue unworkable plans or make promises they can't keep," Obama said.

The New York Times earlier this month reported that [Sleezebag] has so far earned almost $1.9 billion worth of media coverage, compared with $313 million for the next closest Republican challenger, U.S. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, and $746 million for Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton.


(Reporting by Roberta Rampton; Editing by Leslie Adler)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 29, 2016, 07:36:58 PM
Thanks, Uno. It's nice to see some numbers behind my suspicions.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 30, 2016, 01:08:10 AM
Local political episodes-

1)Just saw [Sleezebag] doubling down on his criticisms of Wisconsin. By the way, Forrest [Sleezebag], how did that approach work for you in Ohio? It was a double digit margin of defeat, as I recall.

2) Anti-[Sleezebag] protest outside the site of tonight's televised town hall meeting has grown from "about a hundred" to "300".

3) Gov. Walker endorsed Cruz today, as expected.

4) Sanders was calling on voters today to send Walker a message. Really? This is kind of like [Sleezebag] calling the state " a disaster". Not only did Walker win 3 elections in 4 years, but in between the opposition turned an election for state supreme court into a referendum on Walker and they lost that , too!  So now all 3 branches of state government are GOP controlled.

The problem Walker has is that rather than see things through and work to pass a budget, and in spite of his promises to the contrary during his re-election campaign- he turned his inauguration speech in to a presidential campaign kick-off in all but name ( how many governors talk about Middle Eastern policy in their inaugural addresses? ) and left the state to make speeches around the country.

Want to send a message to Scott Walker in the primary? Use the Republican side of the ballot. Vote for The Leader, because Walker endorsed Cruz.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 30, 2016, 01:55:10 AM
I AM SHOCKED!

Ted Cruz just said that The Constitution and The Bill of Rights protects Christians, Muslims, Jews and Atheists. I've previously heard nothing but Christianity and Religious Liberty from him with regard to The Constitution. I thought that was code for Christian establishment, but maybe it's merely about gay discrimination and oppression.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 30, 2016, 04:02:19 AM
My wife and I had a disagreement as to whether Kasich has a pathway  to the GOP nomination.
She was citing the 8 state rule. I asked her whether she heard that from anybody beside Cruz, because it was a matter of self-interest for him. She said she heard it from Charlie Sykes, with regard to Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

I had to look it up. The 8 state rule was instituted before the 2012 convention to thwart Ron Paul. So, no time honored tradition there, but for now, it's the standing rule. One that would have excluded party patriarch Abe Lincoln and more recently General Eisenhower, from getting the nomination. So there's room for ridicule, and more than a political fig leaf.

 The rules committee for this convention will meet after the delegates have been chosen, one man and one women from each state and territory. I have a feeling that a committee that's 50% women would not be concerned with protecting the feelings of The Leader, especially since T rump is trying to blame the lady reporter who got manhandled by his campaign manager tonight.

But even with the 8 state rule, by my count there are 16 states remaining and Kassich needs 7 more. Most of those are more favorable to Kasich than Cruz. So for Cruz to say Kasich has no path forward is self serving. Kasich's path is through an open or contested convention. Cruz's path is a hail Mary "I'm not T rump" outright win.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 30, 2016, 05:34:05 PM
Opinion|Editorial | Wisconsin Primary

John Kasich, the GOP's best hope, can win and govern

After terrorists murdered 35 people in Brussels last week, Donald [Sleezebag] and Ted Cruz competed to see who could fashion an American police state response more quickly. [Sleezebag] demanded that the United States close its borders to Muslims and torture Muslim captives. Cruz suggested forebodingly that police patrols were needed to "secure Muslim neighborhoods."

And Ohio Gov. John Kasich? "One guy says we should patrol Muslim neighborhoods and the other says we should withdraw from NATO and have a religious test on who comes into the country? Do you think we're going to fix this problem with these approaches?" he asked during a meeting Tuesday with Journal Sentinel reporters and editors. "If you want to find out about the radicals inside of the Muslim community, you frankly have to ask a Muslim.

"We have to have communication between the civilized world — all of us together against these murderers. And that takes U.S. leadership."

Kasich had a smart, pragmatic answer. He is, in fact, the only thoughtful candidate with a fundamental belief in long-standing democratic principles who remains standing in the GOP primary field. The Editorial Board normally avoids recommendations for political office. But the Republican presidential campaign this year demands a stand: We recommend John Kasich in the Wisconsin Republican primary on April 5.

Kasich can win
The former congressman and businessman offers Republicans a platform of conservative ideas centered on fiscal responsibility while he offers independents the promise that he will surround himself with expert advisers from various perspectives as he makes informed, independent decisions.

To get the nomination, Kasich must win it on the floor of the Republican convention in July because he has no mathematical chance of winning outright before then. At 10 previously contested Republican conventions, he noted, the front-runner become the nominee only three times. "I don't know why we think the convention is disjointed somehow from the process. The convention is a natural evolution of the process," he said.

If no candidate succeeds in winning a majority beforehand, delegates at the convention will be looking for someone who can win in November. Kasich is the only GOP candidate who consistently outpolls Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head matchup. He was up 6.5 percentage points on Clinton in the latest sounding taken by Real Clear Politics.

Cruz and his supporters are pushing Kasich to drop out of the race, arguing that he splits the anti-[Sleezebag] vote and can't win before the convention. But it's also unlikely that Cruz, who has virtually no administrative experience and is loathed by many in his party, could beat [Sleezebag] to a majority of delegates before July. Some polls show that [Sleezebag], not Cruz, is the second choice of Kasich supporters. And as the primary season heads to the East, Kasich has the better chance — pulling even within the margin of error to [Sleezebag] in the latest Pennsylvania poll.

What impresses us most about Kasich is his independence. Unlike Gov. Scott Walker in Wisconsin and most other Republican governors, Kasich decided to take the additional Medicaid funding that came as part of the Affordable Care Act. The decision meant an infusion of $13 billion for Ohio, which was irresistible for a politician focused on fiscal discipline even in the face of Republican opposition in the Ohio legislature and criticism from conservatives nationally.

"If we treat people in the prisons and they don't come back, we're saving money," he said. "I think it's immoral to have the mentally ill living under a bridge or living in prison."

And to his conservative critics: "If you've got a better idea, tell me what it is. I don't think it's good public policy, and I don't think it's morally right to ignore these folks."

Like his opponents, Kasich says he will work to repeal "and replace" Obamacare. His plan, about to be tested in Ohio, would focus on making medical system costs and quality-of-care information transparent and then rewarding systems that achieve higher quality with greater efficiency.

Kasich has repeatedly done what he thought was right for his state and changed course when he had to. Case in point: Kasich and Walker both were elected in 2011. Both signed bills to limit collective bargaining for public workers that year. But Ohio voters promptly overturned their law by a wide margin in a referendum that November. Kasich noted that "we got whupped" and quickly pivoted, finding ways to work with unions instead of crushing them.

On immigration, Kasich favors better southern border security to control the illegal flow of people but also favors a path to legal status for the 11 million undocumented immigrants now living within the law in the U.S., a far more humane and practical approach than either of his primary opponents. .

Kasich says he will bring fiscal discipline to the federal budget, which he promises to balance in eight years while cutting taxes, reducing regulation and returning duties and some money to the states, such as federal gas taxes for highways.

Kasich promises to rebuild the military through $102 billion of increased spending over eight years. We question whether Kasich can boost military spending that much while balancing the budget — when he was in Congress the last time the budget was balanced, the government was benefiting from a peace dividend after the fall of the Iron Curtain and before 9/11. All the Republicans are promising to raise military spending while cutting the deficit.

Kasich would take a more muscular approach to foreign policy but he wisely would rely on allies and close consultation with a broad range of advisers. To combat the Islamic State terrorist group, he calls for a collaborative strategy involving mutual defense by NATO and regional allies, better international collaboration on intelligence, the creation of safe havens and no-fly zones and a smarter propaganda war.

He says he would be willing to commit American ground forces to the battle against ISIS, in conjunction with allies in the region. His template: the first Gulf War — when overwhelming force and a broad coalition including Arab states forged a winning strategy.

Kasich also favors a tough approach to both Russia and China, including working with European allies to strengthen nations that are on the front lines with the Russians. He would strengthen the U.S. military footprint in the Asia-Pacific region.

A pragmatic conservative

Kasich's comments after Brussels were telling. He focused on pragmatism — on building a stronger intelligence network to stop terrorism. That requires better relations with the mainstream Muslim community in the U.S. and abroad.

NATO member states will have to dramatically improve their capability to share intelligence, he believes. And Kasich envisions a more vigorous NATO that has both intelligence-gathering and policing roles. Information — and not only bombs and missiles — is the key to defeating the terrorists, Kasich argues, a point that he alone among the remaining GOP contenders seems to understand.

Most important, Kasich appears to be the only Republican left in the race who actually could govern if he does win. [Sleezebag] is [Sleezebag] — vacuous, unqualified and dangerously ignorant of foreign affairs. Cruz is brilliant but unable to escape the twin straitjackets of ideology and ambition. The author of the futile 16-day government shutdown in 2013 over Obamacare, he also conducted a 21-hour filibuster designed to do one thing: burnish the image of Ted Cruz with tea party conservatives. A team player, he is not.

Republicans and independents who value leadership, dignity, pragmatism and experience should vote for John Kasich next Tuesday.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on March 30, 2016, 09:07:17 PM
As you all know, I pointedly avoid posting stories about the worst of the trash running for President -for all that it's way too late, I choose not to contribute to the problem- but I find this account credible; worth a look.
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/former-T rump-super-pac-director-1395626161225782.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/former-T rump-super-pac-director-1395626161225782.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 31, 2016, 01:45:48 AM
Today's happenings-
1) More violence outside [Sleezebag] Rallies. This time a (15?) year old girl protesting got her breast groped, when she swore at and swung at the man, another Trumper pepper sprayed her face. Police are after both men.

2) The big news of the day was The Leader talking about punishing women who get abortions in the future when abortions are outlawed. He said that was a conservative view. There was quite an uproar from both ends of the spectrum, so much so that [Sleezebag] made a retraction statement before the town meeting even aired on MSNBC.   What a perfect follow up to the "rape pregnancies are a gift from God" mill stone the GOP field had around their neck last presidential election.

3) The 3 remaining GOP candidates are hedging, if not waffling on their "I will support the eventual nominee of the Republican Party" pledge which they made at the first debate, when many doubted whether [Sleezebag] were really a Republican. [Sleezebag] because he thinks he's being treated unfairly, Cruz because [Sleezebag] treated Cruz's wife badly, and Kasich because of his concerns for the future of the party.

4) Today's Marquette Law School poll ( this is the standard in Wisconsin politics ) Gave Cruz a double digit lead, with [Sleezebag] second, and Kasich a strong third. This was before [Sleezebag] called into the Charlie Sykes Show and got fried, before [Sleezebag] did his best to convince people that he shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons, and before he blamed the Brietbart lady reporter for getting manhandled. So we can only imagine it will get worse for him.

5) Today there ws backlash with regard to [Sleezebag]'s ridicule of Wisconsin under Walker's hard won reforms. What he did was basically repeat old Democratic gubernatorial campaign smears, which are out dated. The state has a balanced budget, and is one of a few to have pension obligations fully funded.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 31, 2016, 03:25:05 AM
From where I sit, this looks like peak [Sleezebag]. Weighed. Measured. Found wanting.

His disapproval among women is in the 70%s. He is doubling down on manhandling the lady reporter from a pro-[Sleezebag] news group, even though the Secret Service didn't think she was a threat. He is talking about punishment for women who get abortions. My wife is convinced [Sleezebag] is trying hard for 100% disapproval. More [Sleezebag]'s own words on women ads to follow.

Couple that with careless comments about nuclear weapons. Such as- he thinks they are the greatest threat, and he is against proliferation, but he thinks more countries should get them so that we won't have to defend them any more, and he won't take using them in Europe off of the table. I can envision a re-occurrence of the Lyndon Johnson's little girl with a daisy/nuclear missile countdown ads should The Leader become the GOP presidential nominee, with similar results: Democratic landslide!

I predicted [Sleezebag] would secure the nomination outright before the convention. I think I was  wrong. I also think [Sleezebag] will have a hard time getting favorable rules from a committee which is 50% women by bylaw.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on March 31, 2016, 05:51:29 PM
Under the heading of gratuitous self-congratulation, here we have a Huffington Post story which validates my last post-

-women-flames_us_56fc47efe4b0a06d5804b0b4?]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-[Sleezebag]-women-flames_us_56fc47efe4b0a06d5804b0b4? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-[Sleezebag)
[Sleezebag]’s Tragic Flaw May Finally Send Him Down In Flames

“Hindenburg” [Sleezebag] is playing with matches.

 03/30/2016 06:23 pm ET

"WASHINGTON — Donald [Sleezebag] has defied the laws of political physics from the moment he rode down that gold-toned elevator in his own Manhattan tower to announce his candidacy last spring.

Time and again he’s proved every pundit and all of his fellow Republican candidates wrong, and he remains the only GOP contender with a plausible chance to collect a majority of delegates before the Cleveland convention in July.

But after a year of hovering above the skyline like a giant dirigible, [Sleezebag] is being brought down to earth by his most powerful enemy: his own need to demonstrate his masculine “strength” by disparaging others, particularly women.

It has taken a year for relevant, campaign-related examples to accumulate, but they reached critical mass just in time for a pivotal primary in Wisconsin next week that could see the start of a slow, steady decline in his chances.

He is simply so unpopular with female voters — who make up at least 54 percent of the turnout in presidential general elections — that a victory by him this fall seems all but impossible. In a new NBC News poll, [Sleezebag] is viewed favorably by only 1 in 5 female voters.

To be sure, his ratings among men aren’t dramatically better, and his main GOP rival, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, is almost as poorly regarded by women. Still, 1 in 5 doesn’t work.

“He can’t win, and women are a main reason why,” said Charlie Black, a Republican consultant advising Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

[Sleezebag] critics also note that, despite his vow to ferociously attack Hillary Clinton in a general election, his salvos could be countered by Democrats as just another example of his corrosive attitude toward women.

There are plenty of examples already: his long-running firefight with Fox anchor Megyn Kelly, which included a veiled reference to menstruation; his high-school-level disparagement of Carly Fiorina’s looks; his vow to “spill the beans” on Cruz’s wife, Heidi; and [Sleezebag]’s full-throated defense of his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who was arrested this week in Florida and charged with using unwanted physical force to yank a female reporter away from his boss.

[Sleezebag]’s own family and close advisers have been worried about Lewandowski’s short fuse and aggressive behavior for months, but [Sleezebag] is sticking by him in the din.

Then, on Tuesday, [Sleezebag] struck a match to the whole pile, telling MSNBC host Chris Matthews that women who get “illegal” abortions (and [Sleezebag] wants to make them all illegal) should face “some form of punishment” — details unspecified.

In the hour long face-to-face interview — no phone-ins this time — Matthews pressed [Sleezebag] on whether he thought abortion should be illegal. The answer was “yes.” So if it is, should women be punished in some way? After hesitating several times, [Sleezebag] answered “yes.”

After meandering around on the issue for years, [Sleezebag] in the campaign has run as somewhat of a hard-liner: in favor of repealing Roe v. Wade and of banning so-called partial-birth abortions, but not endorsing a human life amendment or a ban on abortions even in cases of rape or incest.

But the comments to Matthews took him much further to the right, and away from the mainstream of female voters, 55 percent of whom think abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

Minutes after the taping of the show, and the airing of that key excerpt, the [Sleezebag] campaign tried to walk the comments back, but it was too late. Democrats, liberals and leaders of women’s rights groups attacked with gusto.

So did Cruz, though his complaint came from the opposite political direction: that [Sleezebag] was masquerading as a totalitarian foe of abortion, a role that rightly belongs to the Texan.

We’ll know soon enough whether [Sleezebag] is on trouble, let alone going up in flames, when Wisconsin primary voters go to the polls on Tuesday.

The most recent poll, out on Wednesday and taken during the days that the Lewandowski story dominated the political news, showed [Sleezebag] falling behind Cruz by 10 points.

Look out below."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 01, 2016, 02:22:35 AM
Here's a story from Vanity Fair News
-abortion-nuclear-weapons]http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/donald-[Sleezebag]-abortion-nuclear-weapons (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/donald-[Sleezebag)

Would Donald [Sleezebag] drop a nuclear bomb on Europe? He’s not ruling it out.


by Tina Nguyen,



Many parents worry these days about how to explain Donald [Sleezebag] to their children, fretting that the Republican front-runner’s crass language and occasional disregard for human dignity might set a bad example. But [Sleezebag]’s latest barrage of jaw-dropping statements is also an opportunity for education. (Education is, as [Sleezebag] recently, perplexingly claimed, one of the top three responsibilities of government.)

Try this topical word problem to share with your kids: Consider the seven most horrifying statements that Donald [Sleezebag] has made in the past 36 hours, and determine the rate per hour at which he said something that should automatically disqualify him from the presidency (but will not). Round to two decimal places and show your math.

March 29, 4:40 P.M.: [Sleezebag] tells reporters aboard his plane in Janesville, Wisconsin, that he will not fire his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who was charged with battery for allegedly manhandling former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields. “How do you know those bruises weren’t there before? I’m not a lawyer,” he argued, lamenting a world in which the accusations of women could tarnish such fine men as Lewandowski. “Don’t you think she would have yelled out a scream?”

March 29, nine P.M.: [Sleezebag] appears at a CNN town hall in Milwaukee and suggests that Fields could have tried to attack him with either a “little bomb” or a “knife,” justifying Lewandowski’s actions. “She wasn’t dragged to the ground and all of the things that she said,” he told a bewildered Anderson Cooper, adding that he would stand by Lewandowski. “She’s not a baby, O.K.?”

March 29, minutes later: [Sleezebag] argues that America should just let other U.S. allies, such as Japan and South Korea, have nuclear weapons, since “it’s going to happen anyway.”

“It’s only a question of time,” [Sleezebag] shrugged, listing China, Russia, Pakistan, and North Korea as countries that possess the world-ending weapons, and fatalistically suggesting Iran would have one soon, too. To combat this, [Sleezebag] argued, more countries should arm themselves as well, so the U.S. wouldn’t have to waste so much money protecting them. “Now, wouldn’t you rather in a certain sense have Japan have nuclear weapons when North Korea has nuclear weapons?” he asked.

March 29, minutes later: [Sleezebag] smashes his former pledge to support the eventual Republican nominee, setting up the scenario he alluded to weeks earlier in which he said there could be “riots” if he did not emerge from the G.O.P. convention this summer as the nominee.

March 30, mid-afternoon: During a rally in Appleton, Wisconsin, [Sleezebag] suggests doing away with the Geneva Conventions, a 152-year-old set of international treaties governing the treatment of wounded soldiers and prisoners of war. “The problem is we have the Geneva Conventions, all sorts of rules and regulations, so the soldiers are afraid to fight,” [Sleezebag] said, arguing that since the Islamic State “can chop off heads,” the U.S. should start to ratchet up its own response. “I think we’ve got to make some changes, some adjustments.”

March 30, five P.M.: During a pre-taped “town hall” on MSNBC, host Chris Matthews tries to get [Sleezebag] to say he will never use nuclear weapons in Europe. This is their exchange, taken from the transcript verbatim:

Matthews: How about Europe? We won't use it in Europe?

[Sleezebag]: I—I’m not going to take it off the table.

Matthews: You might use it in Europe?

[Laughter]

[Sleezebag]: No, I don’t think so. But I’m not taking . . .

Matthews: Well, just say it. “I will never use a nuclear weapon in Europe.”

[Sleezebag]: I am not—I am not taking cards off the table.

Matthews: O.K.

[Sleezebag]: I’m not going to use nuclear, but I’m not taking any cards off the table.

Matthews: O.K. The trouble is, the sane people hear you and the insane people are not affected by your threats. That’s the trouble. The real fanatics say, “Good. Keep it up.”

[Sleezebag]: I think—I think they’re more affected than you might think.

Matthews: O.K. Your call.

Donald [Sleezebag] likes to keep his enemies guessing, even in Europe.

March 30, minutes later: [Sleezebag], who still seems confused about how to properly pivot from being “very pro-choice” to being suddenly pro-life, as of 2011, suggests that if abortions are made illegal, “there has to be some form of punishment” for women who get them, though he did not say what that punishment should be.

“It will have to be determined,” [Sleezebag] said, after Matthews finally forced him to reckon with the potential consequences of outlawing abortion. Asked whether men should be held responsible under the same law, [Sleezebag] responded, “I would say no.”

Hours later, [Sleezebag] walked back his abortion comments after several pro-life groups, who advocate that only doctors who perform abortions should be punished, condemned his remarks. “The doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman,” [Sleezebag] says in a statement, adding that women are victims of abortion. “My position has not changed,” he says, unconvincingly.

Answer: [Sleezebag] has made seven potentially disqualifying statements within 36 hours, at a rate of one every 5.14 hours, or .19 horrifying statements per hour, or too many horrifying statements, period.

There are 221 days until the general election.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I think he should adopt Tom Petty's "Free Fallin' " as his campaign song.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 02, 2016, 03:21:32 AM
-abortion-laws/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/01/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-abortion-laws/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/01/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

"[Sleezebag] says federal laws should not be changed to outlaw abortion
By Jeremy Diamond, CNN


CNN) — Donald [Sleezebag] on Friday appeared to again reverse his position on abortion, arguing that federal laws should not be changed to outlaw the procedure.

"At this moment the laws are set. And I think we have to leave it that way," [Sleezebag] said Friday in an interview with CBS's "Face the Nation." The full interview will air Sunday morning.

But soon after the comments became public, [Sleezebag] campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said [Sleezebag] was giving "an accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now -- until he is president. Then he will change the law through his judicial appointments and allow the states to protect the unborn. There is nothing new or different here."

[Sleezebag]'s campaign has been engulfed in controversy since Wednesday, when he told MSNBC's Chris Matthews that women who undergo abortions should face "some form of punishment" if the procedure were outlawed. He walked away from that statement within hours amid bipartisan condemnation, saying if abortion was banned, it would be doctors, not women, facing punishment.

[Sleezebag] has articulated an anti-abortion position while surging to the top of the Republican presidential race. As recently as Wednesday, [Sleezebag] told Matthews that "you have to ban (abortion)." In the CBS interview, he said he "would've liked" for abortion to be decided on a state-by-state basis.


Abortion has been legal nationwide since the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision


A crucial social issue

The GOP front-runner's waffling on the matter raises questions about his authenticity on the crucial social issue and could undercut the support he has enjoyed among socially conservative and evangelical voters.

The New York billionaire has consistently proclaimed on the campaign trail that he is "very pro-life" and "strong on pro-life," but his latest proclamation puts [Sleezebag] closer to politicians who believe abortion should remain legal in the United States.

[Sleezebag] used to support abortion rights, and said in a 1999 interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" that he was "very pro-choice" and said he was opposed to any abortion bans, including banning late-term abortions.

But as he courted the conservative base of the Republican Party in recent years before launching his presidential bid, [Sleezebag] firmly planted his flag in the anti-abortion camp.

He has said that he has "evolved" on the issue and explained that he changed his view on whether abortion should be outlawed based on one of his friend's experiences.

"One of the primary reasons I changed (was) a friend of mine's wife was pregnant, and he didn't really want the baby. He was crying as he was telling me the story. He ends up having the baby and the baby is the apple of his eye. It's the greatest thing that's ever happened to him. And you know, here's a baby that wasn't going to be let into life. And I heard this, and some other stories, and I am pro-life," [Sleezebag] said in a 2011 interview with the Christian Broadcasting Network.

[Sleezebag] has repeatedly shared that story on the campaign trail at rallies and in interviews as he has sought to convince social conservatives and evangelical voters of the authenticity of his change of heart on the issue.

And as recently as last week, [Sleezebag] suggested that he would consider a judge's abortion views in considering his nominees for the Supreme Court.

"Yeah, we're gonna look at that. We're gonna look -- it's gonna be pro-life," [Sleezebag] said at a news conference in Washington last week when asked whether he would consider a potential nominee's views on abortion as a litmus test. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, our Nomo Robo is getting a workout intercepting calls from Cruz.

My wife was with her mother in the doctor's office. The doctor lost her composure and started complaining about [Sleezebag], then apologized. People here are uncommonly both political and polite. After the bitter battle of the Walker Reforms, we try not to talk politics with acquaintances , or even friends. But that's the sort of thing that happens now. People are having a hard time holding their tongues about [Sleezebag], and nobody is defending him. They just join in and commiserate.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 02, 2016, 03:25:38 AM
You know - THIS could finally be his undoing.  It's not what the bigots and morons can fool themselves into thinking is "tells it like it is".

I wonder if he's doing it on purpose...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 02, 2016, 04:35:05 AM
It's going to take time to whittle down T rump. 

His negatives are too well known for harping on them to work, but people hate politicians THAT MUCH.  Thus far the "campaign" has played PERFECTLY to that, too.  YOU CAN'T GO NEGATIVE ON T rump.  Why? BECAUSE he's so polarizing.  Thus far, all the candidates that have attacked him have targetted his well known negatives, which just plays fully into his hands because he has a ready made "that's because I'm not a politician/I'm not politically correct/ the system is broken" answer, and IT WORKS. 

Last night, questions directed his way were PURPOSELY focused on the apparent negatives he has.  And, while I THINK this is attempting to be done to make the public wake up to the fact he has no chance in hell on a national stage, it's NOT how to tackle him in the primaries when the average Joe is going on name recognition and sound bites. 

Maybe I'm just THAT pessimistic in thinking the public is inherently stupid, but that's my stance. 

You want to take down T rump, you gotta stump him on the actual issues that he is in no way ready to handle.  One of the smartest things Kasich did that I saw (before I took Talia shopping for a skirt) was to NOT dismiss T rump out of hand over the boarder issues like other candidates did (or attack him on it, that's a losing proposition), but rather acknowledge T rump has struck a chord, but there are other solutions than just his sound bite answers.

QUOTED FOR PRECIENCE.

I was looking for that quote, because I often think of the gist of it.

Somebody should have listened to Uno and paid him a consulting fee.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 03, 2016, 01:55:16 AM
I officially dub the "Hillary" a woman with slack pants. I figure it only seems fair to give Hillary a venomous slogan since T rump receives so much disgust on this thread. I continue to hear accusations from both candiates about Bernie Sanders during debates.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 03, 2016, 03:38:08 AM
I hope you stay engaged in the thread, Dio.

Oh, I have contempt for the woman with slack pants. If there's one politician I hate, it's her.
There's just no point in repeating myself with the details..

I could talk about her hand gestures... Better yet, pay attention to them yourself the next time she's making a speech. Imagine 8 years of them.

I just like to rant about [Sleezebag] because he's such a loose canon that he might force me to vote for her.

Some days, I feel the same way about Cruz.

Bernie has the silliest ideas put forward by a presidential contender with a straight face, but the sad thing is, he's the most sincere of the final five, and that's the quality I respect most in a politician. In that regard, he's the anti-Hillary. So I give him a pass. 

---------------------------------------------------

Normally, I figure that we deserve what we get in terms of politicians. 
However, I don't think that my friends and family in Europe deserve to live in a fallout zone just because the Trumpkins are threatening to riot if they don't get their way. I don't think it's really fair to friends and family committed to serving in the armed forces to have The Leader tear up the Geneva Conventions.

I accept that [Sleezebag] will likely wreck the GOP. I draw the line at president [Sleezebag] the Superpower, wrecking the world because "They started it! I was forced to retaliate twice as hard."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on April 03, 2016, 05:44:03 AM
It's going to take time to whittle down T rump. 

His negatives are too well known for harping on them to work, but people hate politicians THAT MUCH.  Thus far the "campaign" has played PERFECTLY to that, too.  YOU CAN'T GO NEGATIVE ON T rump.  Why? BECAUSE he's so polarizing.  Thus far, all the candidates that have attacked him have targetted his well known negatives, which just plays fully into his hands because he has a ready made "that's because I'm not a politician/I'm not politically correct/ the system is broken" answer, and IT WORKS. 

Last night, questions directed his way were PURPOSELY focused on the apparent negatives he has.  And, while I THINK this is attempting to be done to make the public wake up to the fact he has no chance in hell on a national stage, it's NOT how to tackle him in the primaries when the average Joe is going on name recognition and sound bites. 

Maybe I'm just THAT pessimistic in thinking the public is inherently stupid, but that's my stance. 

You want to take down T rump, you gotta stump him on the actual issues that he is in no way ready to handle.  One of the smartest things Kasich did that I saw (before I took Talia shopping for a skirt) was to NOT dismiss T rump out of hand over the boarder issues like other candidates did (or attack him on it, that's a losing proposition), but rather acknowledge T rump has struck a chord, but there are other solutions than just his sound bite answers.

QUOTED FOR PRECIENCE.

I was looking for that quote, because I often think of the gist of it.

Somebody should have listened to Uno and paid him a consulting fee.

Why thank you. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 03, 2016, 04:00:27 PM
It appears that T rump made comments that unnerved U.S. Allies on the Nuclear Security Council. President Obama responded with statements that reassured our allies on the Nuclear Security Council about T rump's lack of foreign policy experience.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 03, 2016, 04:03:55 PM
I hope to vote for Bernard Sanders because he holds the most honest convinctions about issues in our country. I know he continues to focus his attention on the state of New York.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on April 03, 2016, 08:53:45 PM
It appears that T rump made comments that unnerved U.S. Allies on the Nuclear Security Council. President Obama responded with statements that reassured our allies on the Nuclear Security Council about T rump's lack of foreign policy experience.

I cannot adequately articulate how utterly wrong the remarks he made were on that front, and wish someone would really call him to task on them.  (caveat, I've seen absolutely no news since Friday, and unlikely to for a week)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 03, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
It appears that T rump made comments that unnerved U.S. Allies on the Nuclear Security Council. President Obama responded with statements that reassured our allies on the Nuclear Security Council about T rump's lack of foreign policy experience.

I cannot adequately articulate how utterly wrong the remarks he made were on that front, and wish someone would really call him to task on them.  (caveat, I've seen absolutely no news since Friday, and unlikely to for a week)

You refer to [Sleezebag]?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 03, 2016, 10:29:40 PM
I'm just plain running out of things to say in this thread, having said it all so many times, over and over - except that Kasich, Cruz and the Pig remind me of a joke a long time ago in Mad, that Larry Flint was what Bob Guccione needed to make him look respectable, while being, in turn, what Hugh Hefner needed to make him look respectable.



Posting this here instead of the Trans thread because of the larger Republican Party issue I've frequently talked about:

Quote
North Carolina shows GOP split extends to states, too
 Political shifts in thought Republican factionalism is now playing out in states where LGBT rights vs. religious liberty is the new flashpoint.
The Christian Science Monitor
By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer  April 2, 2016   


(http://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2016/04/973813_1_Charlotte%2C%20N.C.%20LBGT%20rights%20protest_standard.jpg?alias=standard_600x400)
Demonstrators protesting passage of legislation limiting bathroom access for transgender people stand in front of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Government Center in Charlotte, N.C., Thursday, March 31, 2016. Approximately 100 people gathered for the rally, many chanting and carrying signs.  (AP Photos/Skip Foreman)



Atlanta — In North Carolina, a bakery, a Christian bookstore, and a packaging company have put their names on a letter of support for a new law that bars transgender people from any bathroom where the stick figure sign doesn’t match their birth gender.

Threatening to boycott the state over the same law? Google, Apple, and Fox.

For many socially conservative Americans, it’s a little like David vs. Goliath, pitting the giants of commerce against the will of the regular people – or at least their representatives.

Yet after signing the bill late last month, Republican Gov. Pat McCrory faces mounting pressure to tweak or repeal the law – or face a blow to the state’s economy. Proponents say a majority of North Carolinians don’t care; they say allowing transgender people to choose which bathroom they want to use “defies common sense,” as Governor McCrory put it.

The new law stands as a major victory for Evangelicals and social conservatives in the wake of the Supreme Court’s legalization of gay marriage last summer. It shows how, in the words of Jane Robbins of the American Principles Project, matters of faith can thwart “corporate bullies” demanding that Christians set aside fundamental values in the name of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights.

But longer-term, political scientists say, the pressure cooker in North Carolina suggests that national fractures within the GOP are not limited to the presidential race or within Congress. They are increasingly playing out in states, too, where the party seems at war with itself over matters of faith and business, of trade and entitlements. The quandary for Republicans is to what degree such fundamental disagreements are irreconcilable.

“The factionalism within the Republican party that we are seeing in national politics is beginning to play out within some states,” says Richard Fording, chair of the political science department at the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa.

The state flash points are quickly mounting:
•On Monday, Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal (R), who is not facing reelection, vetoed a religious liberty bill, saying his state did not need to “discriminate” against anyone. While the veto reassured those sensitive to LGBT rights, it alienated much of Governor Deal’s evangelical base, shaking his working relationship with Republican lawmakers.
•South Dakota Gov. Dennis Daugaard, also a Republican, recently vetoed a bill requiring schools to enforce a “gender-at-birth-only” bathroom rule.
•Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslaam has slowed the movement of a bill very similar to the one in North Carolina. Governor Haslaam is a firmly pro-business Republican.
•This coming week, Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant will decide whether to sign a new religious liberty bill. It's been described as the most radical religious freedom bill in the country, protecting from government sanctions anyone who refuses to serve LGBT people on the basis of religious beliefs. Gov. Bryant has said he sees no discriminatory intent.

In these cases, last year’s Supreme Court decision is playing a role, unleashing deeply held passions.

But the internecine statehouse battles also highlight other divides exposed by the candidacy of Donald T rump, whose attacks on banks and trade deals run contrary to long time pro-business, low-tax orthodoxy within the Republican Party.

Citing factional warfare on issues ranging from trade, foreign policy, entitlements and social issues, “the legislative battles … in state capitals across the country underscore the unusual level of disarray in a party that traditionally strives for order,” writes James Hohmann in The Washington Post.

North Carolina has emerged as a key battleground of ideas. After a list of boycott threats have grown and states and cities have begun issuing travel bans to North Carolina, McCrory faces a fundamental decision. He faces reelection this year and his opponent, Roy Cooper, is a Democrat who has called the law a “national embarrassment.” As another sign of how sensitive the issue is, the usually loquacious state Chamber of Commerce has remained mum.

The stakes are high. Google's investment chief has asked his employees to flag any venture capital ideas out of North Carolina. The state may even lose federal highway funding since the law contradicts federal guidelines.

On the other side, the success in passing a transgender bathroom bill in North Carolina has if anything emboldened social conservatives, including important voters that McCrory needs to win reelection.

It also comes as a group called First Liberty documented what it says are a spike in attacks on religious liberty at schools, in courts, in the public square, and in churches themselves.

Moves by social conservatives mainly in the South to push back against LGBT rights "is what the LGBT political machine has wrought ... they have to own up to that reality," William Perkins, editor of the Baptist Record in Mississippi, told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger this week.

Part of the looming problem for the party is that conservatives may be running out of room for compromise between the factions that Ronald Reagan famously called a “three-legged stool”: religious conservatives, national security conservatives, and economic conservatives.

In Georgia, lawmakers agreed to water down a more strongly-worded bill to exclude businesses from being allowed to reject gay people. But Deal vetoed it anyway, saying that there is no place in Georgia for discrimination.

That language, wrote conservative commentator Erick Erickson, essentially suggested that compromise on that issue is now off the table.

From the other angle, the focus by statehouse conservatives on curbing LGBT rights runs counter to a major partywide post mortem by Republicans after Mitt Romney lost to a vulnerable President Obama in 2012. One conclusion: Steer the party away from polarizing social issues.

What’s more, corporations, which have grown increasingly willing to take stands on social issues in order to attract values-conscious shoppers, have also been emboldened by the Citizens United ruling, which gave moneyed interests new levers to influence popular opinion.

Ralph Reed, the chairman of the Faith & Freedom Coalition, told The Washington Post that probusiness and social conservatives are talking past each other on the fundamentals at hand, only compounding the disconnect.

His message to Republicans: Stop shouting so you can hear each other talk. The choice between money and morality is a myth. “The faith community needs to be clearer about what its objectives are, and some in the business community need to stop mischaracterizing what the legislation actually does,” he said.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2016/0402/North-Carolina-shows-GOP-split-extends-to-states-too (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2016/0402/North-Carolina-shows-GOP-split-extends-to-states-too)

Incidentally, I cannot help feeling profoundly hostile to the Mayor of San Francisco, Big Brother Google and the federal Department of Transportation thinking they've got any business telling my state to stop being so retarded - and ashamed that so much of the push-back has to come from outsiders.

-This is a stupid hill for anyone involved to choose to die on, BTW - it's a big, big deal over a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.  The smart play would be to have the big fights over something not so desperately fringe; it's a classic progressive blunder - and swiftly becoming a classic social conservative blunder.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 03, 2016, 11:14:23 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12321708_945877952193831_4725540245035530406_n.jpg?oh=e8ff3ea040df04c446fae56c1e4a2f15&oe=5780CE05)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 03, 2016, 11:20:25 PM
As per my policy of not being part of the problem, I only give the link, noting that the article is worth a peek.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0331/Could-T rump-cost-GOP-more-than-White-House (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2016/0331/Could-T rump-cost-GOP-more-than-White-House)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 04, 2016, 12:46:38 AM
Quote
Incidentally, I cannot help feeling profoundly hostile to the Mayor of San Francisco, Big Brother Google and the federal Department of Transportation thinking they've got any business telling my state to stop being so retarded - and ashamed that so much of the push-back has to come from outsiders.

-This is a stupid hill for anyone involved to choose to die on, BTW - it's a big, big deal over a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.  The smart play would be to have the big fights over something not so desperately fringe; it's a classic progressive blunder - and swiftly becoming a classic social conservative blunder.
The power of the government to control power within the states originates from the distribution of catergorical grants and formula grants. The government can attach specific stipulations on the creation of grants that provide a significant portion of the funding for states activities. The non-compliance of the state with the federal guidelines results in the elimination of funds for the state.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 04, 2016, 12:48:27 AM
I'm in the southeast.  Screw the outsiders.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 04, 2016, 04:03:49 AM
-bad-week-abortion-175934080.html]https://www.yahoo.com/politics/[Sleezebag]-bad-week-abortion-175934080.html (https://www.yahoo.com/politics/[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 04, 2016, 06:15:08 AM
Yeah, everybody seems to think it was a bad week but him. That's the tone of the articles.

I'm also thinking Bernie was beating Hillary here this week.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 04, 2016, 12:53:24 PM
I'm thinking - look at what I said a long time ago about becoming President would mean giving up control of his business; either whomever runs it does a bad job and loses him money, perhaps all the money, or does well and becomes a rival, perhaps keeping control for good - then look at the superpac lady saying it was never a real campaign.  I don't think I'm reaching wildly to wonder if he's finally found his exit strategy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 05, 2016, 03:56:19 AM
I'm thinking - look at what I said a long time ago about becoming President would mean giving up control of his business; either whomever runs it does a bad job and loses him money, perhaps all the money, or does well and becomes a rival, perhaps keeping control for good - then look at the superpac lady saying it was never a real campaign.  I don't think I'm reaching wildly to wonder if he's finally found his exit strategy.
I do not think Donald T rump acts like a great businessman because he inherited a significant portion of the wealth from his father.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 05, 2016, 04:12:03 AM
Fred left him about 100 million, yes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 06, 2016, 02:06:07 AM
Polls are closed. CNN exit polls project Cruz+11%, Sanders +11%
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 06, 2016, 02:50:03 AM
25% counted. CNN calls it for Sanders 53% to 47%.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 06, 2016, 02:52:08 AM
Fight the system!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: binTravkin on April 06, 2016, 07:48:33 AM
If Bernie says what he is thinking (and I have no reason to not believe), he's nuts.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/04/05/bernie_sanders_is_the_developing_world_s_worst_nightmare.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/04/05/bernie_sanders_is_the_developing_world_s_worst_nightmare.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 06, 2016, 07:29:07 PM
-campaign-staff-disarray-221557]http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/donald-[Sleezebag]-campaign-staff-disarray-221557 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/donald-[Sleezebag)

"Donald [Sleezebag]’s campaign is increasingly falling into disarray as the Manhattan billionaire braces for a loss in Wisconsin that could set him on course for an uncertain convention floor fight for the Republican presidential nomination.

Since March, the campaign has been laying off field staff en masse around the country and has dismantled much of what existed of its organizations in general-election battlegrounds, including Florida and Ohio.
Last month, the campaign laid off the leader of its data team, Matt Braynard, who did not train a successor. It elevated his No. 2, a data engineer with little prior high-level political strategy experience, and also shifted some of his team’s duties to a 2015 college graduate whose last job was an internship with the consumer products company Colgate-Palmolive. Some of the campaign’s data remains inaccessible.

As the final stretch of this hard fought GOP primary bogs down into a delegate fight among party insiders and operatives that likely won’t be decided until the July convention in Cleveland, [Sleezebag]’s singular star power appears to be no longer enough—and his campaign’s months-long lack of attention to other fundamentals is emerging as a hindrance to his ability to clinch the nomination outright.

“Presidential campaigns are a team sport, and he doesn’t have that mentality,” one high-level GOP operative said. “That's why they're missing a lot of these opportunities that are passing them by. [[Sleezebag]] might be a great quarterback, but every quarterback still needs a strong offensive line.”

[Sleezebag]’s campaign manager Corey Lewandowski flatly rejected the idea that the campaign is in disarray or suffering from low morale.

“Unequivocally not,” he said. “We have the most cohesive, loyal staff, the most loving staff I have ever had the privilege of working with on a campaign.” Lewandowski said the members of [Sleezebag]’s small senior staff “have such an amazing relationship that the morale is the greatest ever.”

While he acknowledged that the campaign has let go of staff in states that already voted, he chalked that up to “the nature of a campaign.” He asserted that his team has retained its best talent, often by offering jobs in upcoming states, noting that it currently has 45 staffers in Wisconsin.


Read more: -campaign-staff-disarray-221557#ixzz454RfzpjK]http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/donald-[Sleezebag]-campaign-staff-disarray-221557#ixzz454RfzpjK (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/donald-[Sleezebag)
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The phone has stopped ringing.

Oddly enough, [Sleezebag] is blaming his double digit defeat and 6 to 1 loss in the delegate count on talk radio. Well, maybe he is blaming whoever told him to call Charlie Sykes on the air. He's also overlooking Cruz's "ground game".

Today my wife was listening to Sykes over the internet. Turns out he has a new influx of callers and listeners from across the country crediting him for turning the tide on The Donald. There's some sort of delicious irony here, that by blaming Sykes for thwarting him and preventing the "big surprise"  and "landslide" The Leader predicted, he has promoted and empowered Sykes to educate the electorate nationally for the rest of the campaign and keep the thorn in his side.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 06, 2016, 09:06:10 PM
If Bernie says what he is thinking (and I have no reason to not believe), he's nuts.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/04/05/bernie_sanders_is_the_developing_world_s_worst_nightmare.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/04/05/bernie_sanders_is_the_developing_world_s_worst_nightmare.html)
Wouldn't it be great if he was the worst candidate for President?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 06, 2016, 09:53:02 PM
Quote
Sanders keeps on winning — and losing
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  April 05, 2016



Sen. Bernie Sanders is on a roll.

Sanders was projected the winner in Wisconsin’s Democratic presidential primary on Tuesday night. It was his sixth victory in the last seven states. Sanders also won the primary for Democrats living abroad, which was announced on March 21. However, he still faces an uphill battle against his rival, Hillary Clinton.

While Sanders has performed well in the Midwest and Western states, Clinton’s earlier dominance, particularly in the South, has given her a delegate lead that her campaign has dubbed “nearly insurmountable.”

In spite of the long odds, Sanders and his campaign believe his current momentum can propel him across the finish line. In a fundraising email to supporters shortly after media outlets first projected his victory, Sanders noted the pessimistic forecasts many political observers have made for his campaign.

“The corporate media and political establishment keep counting us out, but we keep winning states and doing so by large margins. If we can keep this up, we’re going to shock them all and win this nomination,” Sanders said.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/NtfkgJEUa_iyZyHwGyWGGQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDU0OA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/76054bb5c49db596c74f2671c7a8f0f6)
Sen. Bernie Sanders, who won the Democratic presidential primary in Wisconsin on Tuesday, gestures to supporters during a campaign rally in Laramie, Wyo. (Photo: Brennan Linsley/AP)


Wisconsin, with its large college population and tradition of progressive politics, has long been seen as fertile ground for Sanders. Most polls in the state showed him with a single-digit lead over Clinton heading into Tuesday’s election. However, Clinton’s existing lead and the fact that the state awards delegates by congressional district means Sanders will have to win by a much larger margin to make a dent in Clinton’s pledged delegate lead.

Whatever his margin of victory, his recent streak culminating with the win in Wisconsin certainly gives Sanders strong momentum heading into Wyoming’s caucuses on Saturday and the delegate-rich primary in New York on April 19. But the battle for the Democratic nomination won’t just be about the voters and the pledged delegates who are awarded based on ballots cast.

Indeed, momentum was the main theme of the victory speech Sanders delivered from an event in Laramie, Wyo., on Tuesday night. Sanders said the fact he had emerged as a serious challenger to Clinton after being behind in the polls and dismissed by many pundits demonstrates the true strength of his campaign. He also pointed to the fact that he has managed to build a substantial war chest without the help of super-PACs, which allow wealthy megadonors to back campaigns.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/uSne02epTzAxIRDyrtkRAA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDI1OA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/542fd869372f74acec39114ed5471aa1)
Supporters cheer while waiting for Bernie Sanders at a campaign rally in Laramie, Wyo., on Tuesday. (Photo: Brennan Linsley/AP)


“What momentum is about is my belief that if we wake up the American people, that if working people, and middle-class people, and senior citizens, and young people begin to stand up, fight back and come out and vote in large numbers, there is nothing that we cannot accomplish,” Sanders said.

Clinton attended a private fundraiser in New York City on Tuesday night and is not likely to make a public address.

Clinton has amassed a massive lead among Democratic superdelegates, who are not bound to vote at the party’s convention based on the results of their states’ primaries. Sanders and his campaign are hoping his recent wins can help convince some of these superdelegates to change sides. His team and supporters are lobbying superdelegates, particularly in states where he won decisive victories over Clinton, and arguing it would be undemocratic for them to go against the will of the electorate.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/ZA0ZMzRKlthaKLvkcJ3J.A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NDI0Nw--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/d712d92a61936a9971d4e78990db8378)
Hillary Clinton takes a selfie with a supporter after speaking at a “Women for Hillary” town hall event in the New York City borough of Brooklyn on Tuesday. (Photo: Lucas Jackson/Reuters)


Former President Bill Clinton, who is a superdelegate in New York, has been hitting the campaign trail in support of his wife. At an event in Elmont, N.Y., on Tuesday morning, Yahoo News asked President Clinton about the superdelegate system and the frequently voiced criticism that it is unfair. Though he answered questions from reporters after a similar event in New York City last Thursday, Clinton was somewhat less forthcoming when Yahoo News asked about his role as a superdelegate.

“I don’t answer questions on a rope line, but I got a good answer for you,” President Clinton said. And then he moved on.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-keeps-on-winning-and-losing-023956134.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-keeps-on-winning-and-losing-023956134.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 06, 2016, 10:00:50 PM
Quote
Sanders has edge over Clinton in fast-moving race in Wisconsin
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker and Liz Goodwin  April 05, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/usVYRmB2x444Vk4FrW8JOw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/63b3d947e2c30eb3d6be0bd340034d6c)
Sen. Bernie Sanders arrives for a campaign event in Milwaukee on Monday; Hillary Clinton speaks during a rally in Green Bay, Wis., on March 29. (Photos: Paul Sancya/AP; Patrick Semansky/AP)



Wisconsin has been a fast and furious fight for the Democratic presidential candidates. Both Hillary Clinton and Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., set up operations in the crucial state, which votes Tuesday, only in the last few weeks.

Most polls show Sanders with a single-digit lead in the race for Wisconsin’s 86 delegates. The Midwestern state, could now serve as a springboard for Sanders, building on a three-week hot streak since March 15, during which he has won five states and lost only one.

But the Badger State might not be the answer to the senator’s prayers. Clinton’s current delegate lead means Sanders would need a huge win in the state — and in several more going forward — to threaten the frontrunner. But the favorable poll numbers have Sanders’ campaign aides hoping to build on the recent momentum as they seek to keep Clinton from clinching the nomination.

Clinton’s campaign is keeping expectations low for the state. On Monday, her team sent a fundraising email with the subject line “We could lose Wisconsin.” Clinton’s presidential campaign manager Robby Mook sent out a memo outlining her “path forward.” The memo cited Clinton’s current delegate lead and noted Sanders cannot defeat her without winning “roughly 60 percent of the vote” in “the four remaining delegate-rich primaries — New York, Pennsylvania, California, and New Jersey.” Mook didn’t mention Wisconsin.

Sanders has performed well in the Midwest, but so far those victories have not been enough for him to catch up to the lead Clinton built in the South and with minority voters. And Tuesday’s contest doesn’t look to be a blowout win for the Vermont senator.

Wisconsin’s progressives have been drawn to Sanders, particularly in liberal Madison, the second largest city in the state.

“He does well in Madison, he obviously does really well,” Jessie Opoien, a reporter who covers state government and politics for the Madison-based Cap Times, said. “He also does really well in the western part of the state, which is sort of that more traditional, progressive grassroots, kind of populist sensibility.”

While Wisconsin’s electorate may favor Sanders, local leaders are largely backing Clinton.

“I think people expect Bernie to pull it out … but there’s also a sense that, either one, it wouldn’t be a huge surprise,” Opoien said. “She’s got the establishment support. There’s no question of that.”

Sanders’ recent wins made Wisconsin an unexpectedly important race, leading both campaigns to set up shop in a state they had largely overlooked. Joe Zepecki, a Democratic operative who is a veteran of many campaigns in the state, including President Barack Obama’s 2012 re-election bid, said the fight for Wisconsin was “certainly not a months-long campaign.” Zepecki, who is not working for either of the current Democratic campaigns, said Clinton’s team set up shop “a couple of days” after Sanders’ did.

Sanders’ Wisconsin director Robert Dempsey, who ran the show for the campaign in Minnesota as well, said the staff campaign effort in the state started about a month ago, and has focused on "very aggressive direct voter contact” through door-to-door canvassing and phone calls.

“We are reaching out to Wisconsinites across the spectrum,” Dempsey said, including members of the state’s Native American population, who are “very important for our overall strategy.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/x6s.Y7Qg1iOZjc0EdjSGfA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/d1b3257d7fc54b737deef8438def4094)
Wisconsin voters in Milwaukee cast their ballots for the state’s primary on Tuesday. (Photo: Charles Rex Arbogast/AP)


He adds that although the campaign has only been in Wisconsin for a month, there was “a pretty aggressive volunteer base operation” in place for months before his arrival.

Opoien agrees, noting that grassroots Sanders supporters have been mobilizing in Wisconsin for months now. She recalled seeing groups of Sanders supporters last September at “Fighting Bob Fest,” an annual progressive activist gathering in the state.

“There were three or four different Bernie Sanders groups with tables there,” Opoien said of the festival.

Clinton’s campaign would not comment directly on its strategy, but Clinton’s Wisconsin spokesman, Yianni Varonis, said her team has offices in seven cities across the state. Varonis said in a statement that Clinton has “a nearly insurmountable lead in pledged delegates” in the race overall but remains “committed” to Wisconsin.

Clinton’s team includes operatives with deep experience in the state.

The Clinton campaign in Wisconsin is run by Jake Hajdu, who was the executive director of the state’s Democratic party until last year and has extensive experience getting out the vote for Democrats in Wisconsin. Hajdu returned to Wisconsin after working for Clinton in Iowa and Maine.

“Having him come back here made sense for them obviously to get stuff rolling quickly,” Opoien said, adding, “She’s got a couple of other folks working for her that have been involved in party politics here.”

One possible wild-card factor is Wisconsin’s open-primary rules, which allow people from outside the party to vote in the race.

“We’re an open state,” Zepecki says. “There’s no registration by party. You don’t even pick a different ballot up. Both races are listed on the same ballot.”

But voters have to choose which primary they will vote in. In states that have voted so far, Sanders has done well with independents and in open primaries. Zepecki said Wisconsin may be decided by how many independents choose to vote on the Democratic side of the ballot. It could spell trouble for Sanders if the chance to vote for — or against — Donald T rump lures independents to vote in the Republican primary instead.

“The only way I could envision a surprise, and that’s how I would characterize Clinton winning here, is if the independents go over to the Republican side,” Zepecki said.

Another Wisconsin law that could impact the Democratic primary is a voter ID law that passed in the state in 2011 and has not yet been in place during a presidential race. Zepecki said the law could affect a key Sanders’ base — college kids.

“If there is confusion and people … are disenfranchised I think it’s likely to be on college campuses,” Zepecki said. But “I think the order of magnitude is likely to be pretty small,” he added. “I think the universities have done all they can to educate folks and help them get what they need, but it has been a little confusing.”

Sanders’ campaign has also tried to educate Wisconsinites on the new voter ID law, explaining to them that they must show up with a photo ID with their current address on it or some other proof of their residency. Sanders has called the law “voter suppression,” and Clinton has also denounced it.

Dane County and its major city, the college town of Madison, is the main base of support for Sanders, but Dempsey said they have worked to drum up support across the state to win as many delegates as possible. Delegates will be awarded in each of Wisconsin’s eight congressional tickets rather than simply based on the total number of votes.

“If we were running a governor’s race we’d look to jack up turnout in Madison and then we go home. That’s not how this works,” Dempsey said.

But the delegate math could prove problematic for Sanders unless he performs far better than his promising poll numbers. Zepecki pointed to 2008 where President Barack Obama won just ten more delegates than Clinton in the state, despite beating her by a statewide margin of 18 percent. So, while Zepecki said a “five or six point victory” for Sanders is “expected,” he doubted it would change the daunting delegate math for him.

“A horse-race win has always been nice in terms of momentum, but I’m not sure that the way the state sets up he’s going to be able to get a big delegate haul,” Zepecki said.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-has-edge-over-clinton-in-fast-moving-race-125904000.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-has-edge-over-clinton-in-fast-moving-race-125904000.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 07, 2016, 04:35:17 PM
Bernie! Bernie! Feel the Bern! We must :adore: because  :whip: upon the principle.
Quote
Watch CNN and NY1's Democratic debate, moderated by Wolf Blitzer, Thursday, April 14 at 9 p.m. ET.


Washington (CNN) — Bernie Sanders said Wednesday that Hillary Clinton is not "qualified" to be president, a sharp escalation in rhetoric in the Democratic primary.

"Secretary Clinton appears to be getting a little bit nervous," he told a crowd in Philadelphia. "And she has been saying lately that she thinks that I am 'not qualified' to be president. Well, let me, let me just say in response to Secretary Clinton: I don't believe that she is qualified, if she is, through her super PAC, taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest funds. I don't think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from Wall Street through your super PAC."



CNN has reached out to the Clinton campaign for comment, and its surrogates responded quickly on Twitter.

"Hillary Clinton did not say Bernie Sanders was 'not qualified.' But he has now - absurdly - said it about her. This is a new low," campaign spokesman Brian Fallon tweeted.

Clinton was asked Wednesday morning by MSNBC whether she thought Sanders was "ready to be president."







"I think he hadn't done his homework and he'd been talking for more than a year about doing things that he obviously hadn't really studied or understood, and that does raise a lot of questions," Clinton said. "Really what that goes to is for voters to ask themselves can he deliver what he's talking about."




Sanders and Clinton are barreling toward the New York primary later this month, and the duo are increasingly tangling in heated, tense campaign trail exchanges. Sanders' comments in Philadelphia were just the latest escalation in recent days. Clinton and her allies have been highlighting a recent Sanders interview with New York Daily News interview that was widely panned, suggesting it showed him unqualified for the White House.

In Philadelphia, Sanders turned that critique back on Clinton.

"I don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in Iraq. I don't think you are qualified if you have supported virtually every disastrous trade agreement which has cost us millions of decent paying jobs," he said to applause. "I don't think you are qualified if you've supported the Panama free trade agreement, something I very strongly opposed and, which as all of you know, has allowed corporations and wealthy all over the world people to avoid paying their taxes to their countries."

Comments from the Daily News interview also drew attacks over Sanders' stance on guns from Erica Smegielski, a Clinton supporter and daughter of the Sandy Hook Elementary School principal who was killed at Newtown. Clinton highlighted the criticism by tweeting at Smegielski.

"@EricaSmegs remember, any hateful comments are just noise compared to your voice for change. With you in the fight to stop gun violence. -H" she tweeted.

The latest Quinnipiac poll of New York Democrats finds Clinton beating Sanders 54% to 42%. That survey came out March 31, several days before Sanders won the Wisconsin primary. In fact, Sanders has won seven of the last eight Democratic contests, though Clinton has a commanding lead among delegates.

In addition to a trove of delegates New York is an important symbolic contest. Sanders was born in the Empire State, and New York City has been at the center of the national political battle over income inequality -- a signature issue for the Vermont senator. But Clinton represented the state in the Senate, and her campaign headquarters is based in Brooklyn.

The two candidates will face off in a debate in New York on April 14, hosted by CNN and NY1
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2016, 04:41:17 PM
No link?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 07, 2016, 04:42:32 PM
No link?

A link for you because it flares my political passions.http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/06/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-qualified/index.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2016, 04:45:32 PM
;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 07, 2016, 04:56:49 PM
I also employ international websites like BBC and al jazeera for news information because it provides a different perspective on issues in our country.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2016, 05:13:48 PM
That's not a bad idea.  They shouldn't quite so plugged into the same mass media group mind.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 07, 2016, 05:19:50 PM
That's not a bad idea.  They shouldn't quite so plugged into the same mass media group mind.
I recently read an investigative article, for example, on al jazeera  of a drug crisis in Mexico that stems from the influx of illegal drugs through the cartels. I could not find any other reference towards the story on U.S. Media outlets.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2016, 05:31:32 PM
It's a big ol' group mind in this country - more than a bit MPD, but still way too much alike.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 07, 2016, 08:46:58 PM
When you're devoting time to [Sleezebag] on the stump, it crowds out other stuff.
--------------------

I think Hillary is making a mistake being critical of Sanders, and by association his supporters. This will not make her more likeable. I know she badly wants to become POTUS. To get there from here she needs to get back to trying to be likeable. 85% of her own party thinks she is untrustworthy!
Bernie or Busters, and Trumpettes have a lot of common ground- isolationist, pro health care, pro gun, anti- PAC, anti-status quo. They might join together to retaliate against Cruz or Clinton. 

Bernie has generated a lot of passion and organization. If Hillary wants a victory and a mandate, she needs to take a page from Cruz, and talk about her understanding and appreciation for the concerns of voters who support rival candidates.

HEY HILLARY! Be a person, not a lawyer. Make friends, not enemies. Because the more likeable you are, the easier it will be for people to hold their nose and vote for you rather than stay home this fall, or vote against you out of spite. When the press asks you what you think of Sen. Sander's qualifications, don't take the bait, turn it around on the press- tell them that their job is to make qualifications clear and to check the facts. Tell them that you are on the campaign trail out of your heartfelt concern for the problems facing Americans and America, to explain your solutions, and to ask for everyone's help  in bringing them to fruition.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 07, 2016, 10:28:26 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-republican-party-can-t-1402047670140982.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-republican-party-can-t-1402047670140982.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 07, 2016, 10:51:40 PM
I was trying to post that one, but I've been having comp issues!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 08, 2016, 03:48:28 PM
The republican party sometimes operates like a bunch of dysfunctional high school girls.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 08, 2016, 04:03:27 PM
...With an MPD...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 09, 2016, 01:10:44 AM
Glancing at the politics news, it's like nothing interesting happened today - and I know that isn't the case...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 09, 2016, 03:31:23 AM
Yeah, mostly the New Yorkers are saying how great it is to be back! Also, the democrats are trying to walk back from the brink of fratricide, and rephrase and tone down their remarks about qualifications, and Bill's confrontation with Black Lives Matter.

-health-care.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&src=trending&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-health-care.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&src=trending&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

"Donald [Sleezebag]'s Health Care Ideas Bewilder Republican Experts"
==========================================

I watched most of the episodes of "The Apprentice", but I never read "The Art of the Deal" or any of his other books.  I am increasingly of the opinion that [Sleezebag]'s deal making style involves "throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks" It confuses the people he's dealing with, and it gives him a chance to read their reactions, so that he can play them. Then they aren't really sure what they're agreeing to until the process is approaching finalization, because the guy doesn't speak in complete sentences, or stay on topic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 09, 2016, 03:39:46 AM
I read a biography of him back in the late 80s.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 10, 2016, 07:44:25 PM
Quote
Obama says Hillary Clinton’s emails never jeopardized America’s national security
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  April 10, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cRlQP6Bb2dlMLJZsCNV_og--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTE5NjtoPTc5NztpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://41.media.tumblr.com/51ae82086cf4b94f7c93912b4983b5cb/tumblr_inline_o5faziml4Z1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
(Fox News Sunday)



President Obama says Hillary Clinton showed a degree of “carelessness” in using a private email server as secretary of state, but never jeopardized national security.

“I continue to believe that she has not jeopardized America’s national security,” Obama told “Fox News Sunday” in a wide-ranging interview. “What I’ve also said is that — and she has acknowledged — that there’s a carelessness, in terms of managing e-mails, that she has owned, and she recognizes.”

The president said that there are varying degrees of classified material being handled in the upper reaches of government.

“What I also know, because I handle a lot of classified information, is that there are — there’s classified, and then there’s classified,” Obama said. “There’s stuff that is really top-secret, top-secret, and there’s stuff that is being presented to the president or the secretary of state that you might not want on the transom, or going out over the wire, but is basically stuff that you could get in open-source.”

“But I also think it is important to keep this in perspective,” he continued. “This is somebody who has served her country for four years as secretary of state and did an outstanding job.”

Obama was also asked if he could guarantee the White House will not interfere with the ongoing FBI probe into Clinton’s handling of her emails.

“I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or FBI — not just in this case, but in any case,” the president said. “Period. Full stop. Nobody gets treated differently when it comes to the Justice Department. Because nobody is above the law.”

“I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations,” he said. “I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations. We have a strict line and always have maintained it.”

During the interview — his first with “Fox News Sunday” since becoming president — Obama discussed the GOP response to Judge Merrick Garland, his Supreme Court nominee.

“Originally, the Republicans said they wouldn’t meet with him at all,” Obama said. “Now a number of them have already had meetings. And the questioning that they’re having privately with Judge Garland is something that should be done publicly, through a hearings process, so the American people can make their own assessment. But I recognize there’s pressure on the other side. Our goal is just to make sure that the Senate does its job and treats him fairly.”

The president also defended his response to the recent terror attack in Brussels, dismissing critics who said he should’ve curtailed his diplomatic trip to Cuba and Argentina and returned to the United States.

“In the wake of terrorist attacks, it has been my view consistently — that the job of the terrorists, in their minds, is to induce panic, induce fear, get societies to change who they are,” Obama said. “And what I’ve tried to communicate is, ‘You can’t change us. You can kill some of us, but we will hunt you down, and we will get you.’ And in the meantime, just as we did in Boston, after the marathon bombing, we’re going to go to a ballgame.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-fox-news-sunday-clinton-email-scandal-150010315.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-fox-news-sunday-clinton-email-scandal-150010315.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 10, 2016, 09:21:36 PM
I read something at Salon ( I think)  about her applying for a blackberry from the State Dept. and being denied because they weren't secure enough, but she went ahead and used one for State Department business anyway. That sounds like a real problem to me. With that caveat-

"Well spoken, President Obama" - Rusty Edge, April 10th, 2016.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 10, 2016, 09:24:39 PM
I'd heard that one -or a version if it- and someone not-her wasn't doing their job.  If the Secretary of State wants a secure phone to be in plane memes with, then see to it she gets one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 10, 2016, 09:40:32 PM
Well, after reading Obama's eloquent remarks about nobody being above the law ( and if I thought Hillary really believed that, I'd find it easier to vote for her ) that was my context.

When you phrase it like "The Secretary of State wants it done." Then Hannibal's maxim- "We shall find a way, or make one " comes to mind.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 10, 2016, 10:08:32 PM
Exactly.  You know I'm no Hillary-head; just seems to figure.

And her campaign ought to unclench and do something with that plane meme...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 11, 2016, 12:59:18 AM
The Boston Globe put out an editorial and a fake front page to help people envision life under The Leader.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/09/etrump/JPOQJZK9hUBdBx5rdPkWFK/story.html (https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/04/09/etrump/JPOQJZK9hUBdBx5rdPkWFK/story.html)

You can click on the "articles" to make it easier to read them. While it lacked anything about The Donald with nukes, I did appreciate the one about him being considered for a Nobel Peace Prize.

Skip the editorial if you like, and just read the sample front page.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 11, 2016, 01:06:22 AM
I find that article both hilarious and scary at the same time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 11, 2016, 02:10:09 AM
I find that article both hilarious and scary at the same time.

As they said, it was an exercise in taking a man at his word.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 11, 2016, 08:54:34 PM
...Which one should not do with wanton liars, however...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 11, 2016, 08:57:17 PM
Quote
Joe Biden: "I Would Like to See a Woman Elected"
Mic
Luke Brinker,  April 11, 2016



Vice President Joe Biden waded into the contentious back-and-forth between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders over Clinton's qualifications to serve as president, telling Mic in an exclusive interview that both candidates are "totally qualified" — adding that he'd "like to see a woman elected."

The remarks came during an interview with Mic correspondent Antonia Hylton centered on Biden's crusade against sexual assault, set to be released on Wednesday.

Asked whether Sanders' charge that Clinton's super PAC support and her votes for free trade agreements and the Iraq War rendered her unqualified represented another manifestation of sexism, Biden responded with an emphatic "no."

Sanders' remarks were "totally different" from the often-incendiary rhetoric espoused by Republican presidential candidate Donald T rump, Biden said.

Watch Biden's comments here:

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=08mqN9uYQw8#)
Quote
The way the two-time presidential candidate sees it, the Democrats' war of words is par for the course in national campaigns.

"Look, they're both totally qualified to be president. They both get in a fight. Campaigns do this. It's like saying, you know, 'She's dead wrong' or her saying, 'He's dead wrong' on an issue," the vice president said.

Meanwhile, Biden noted, Sanders did not say Clinton is "not qualified because she's a woman."

Biden — who contemplated entering the 2016 fray himself, before opting against a bid in October — rejected the notion that Clinton is held to a higher standard because she's a woman.

"No, I don't think she's held to a higher standard. This country's ready for a woman. There's no problem. We're going to be able to elect a woman in this country," Biden said.

Asked whether he wanted to see a woman elected, Biden responded, "I would like to see a woman elected."

The vice president's staff then attempted to cut off discussion of the 2016 race, but Biden insisted he had "no problem" with discussing it — while making clear he would not go down "that rabbit [hole]" of offering a formal endorsement.

"The president and I are not going endorse because we both, when we ran said, 'Let the party decide.' But gosh almighty, they're both qualified," he said. "Hillary's overwhelmingly qualified to be president."

A complex history: Biden's remarks — simultaneously defending both Clinton and Sanders, delivering views that could conceivably irk either camp — are reflective of the larger role he's played in campaign politics since deciding against a run of his own.

Though Biden served alongside the former secretary of state in both the Senate and the Obama administration, he's leveled not-so-thinly-veiled criticism of his erstwhile colleague, including in his White House Rose Garden speech announcing his no-go decision.

In the speech, Biden railed against "the divisive partisan politics that is ripping this country apart," declaring, "I don't think we should look at Republicans as our enemies. They are our opposition. They're not our enemies." Those pointed remarks came just days after Clinton, in a Democratic debate, identified Republicans as among the enemies she was proudest of making.

Biden has also questioned Clinton's credentials as a warrior against income inequality, a signature Sanders issue.

In a January interview with CNN, Biden said it was "relatively new for Hillary to talk about" the issue, while "Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real. And he has credibility on it." Biden later walked those comments back a bit, saying he meant Clinton was a newcomer to the inequality debate because she'd been focused on global affairs as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/joe-biden-see-woman-elected-163000183.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/joe-biden-see-woman-elected-163000183.html)
Title: Are Hillary's big speaking fees being used to help fund her campaign?
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 12, 2016, 06:56:53 PM
Quote
Are Hillary's big speaking fees being used to help fund her campaign?
Yahoo News
Michael Isikoff  Chief Investigative Correspondent  April 11, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/GYnj11U92vd2Z_A16gVeFQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://40.media.tumblr.com/a7909201af9f57af51ffb0f56f68dbb9/tumblr_inline_o5hl4oSZ0v1tdgnv1_1280.jpg)
Hillary Clinton with summer-camp entrepreneur and Clinton donor Jay Jacobs after her speech to some 3,000 summer-camp professionals at the Tri-State CAMP conference, March 19, 2015, in Atlantic City. (Photo: Mel Evans/AP)



Recently filed campaign finance reports may shed light on how Hillary Clinton is using some of the money she collected from her hefty speechmaking fees from Wall Street banks and other special-interest groups: She is plowing an increasingly large amount of her funds, $560,983 as of last month, back into her presidential campaign.

A Yahoo News review of Clinton’s campaign disclosure reports finds that in the weeks after launching her bid for the presidency in April 2015, the former secretary of state paid $278,821 to her campaign to cover so-called testing the waters expenses. These included consulting and legal fees, travel bills and salaries for top staffers like personal aide Huma Abedin and deputy political director Brynne Craig that were incurred during the early months of last year, when Clinton was officially weighing whether to run for president.

Since then, the reports show, Clinton has kicked another $282,162 into her campaign, with payments to her campaign committee, Hillary for America, averaging about $90,000 a month. Most of that revenue ($228,837) has gone to the Clinton Executive Services Corp., a Clinton family payroll operation that is compensating staffers engaged in campaign-related work for her chief surrogate, her husband and former president Bill Clinton, according to campaign reports and a Clinton campaign official.

The degree to which Clinton is seeking to self-fund her campaign has so far gotten virtually no attention from the media and pales in comparison to the $25 million Donald T rump has loaned his campaign.

Still, “the amount of money is striking,” said Lawrence Jacobs, the director of the Center for the Study of Politics at the Hubert Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota. “It seems to be an important piece of the puzzle. One question [about Clinton’s speeches] is why she would take the risk of taking so much money from Wall Street and other interest groups. Now we see the full picture. It appears she needed some of the cash to finance her campaign.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/St3vcbKqrLArZFpBfRkotw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://40.media.tumblr.com/f3d2243e39646c16455c3757182af1ac/tumblr_inline_o5hlw49TOy1tdgnv1_1280.jpg)
Huma Abedin, a top aide to Hillary Clinton. (Photo: Carlos Barria/Reuters)


A Clinton campaign official, who asked not to be identified, said there was “no connection whatsoever” between Clinton’s speaking fees and her later payments to her campaign committee. And campaign finance lawyers agree that Clinton, like T rump, is legally free to spend as much money as she wants on her campaign.

Clinton’s tax returns for 2014 (the last she has publicly released) show that the $10.5 million she earned from speaking fees that year — including talks to Deutsche Bank, GTCR, a Chicago private equity fund, Cisco, Xerox and the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries, among others — amounted to about two-thirds of her $16 million in gross personal income, with the remaining $5.5 million coming from book royalties. (Her husband reported another $9.7 million in gross income from speaking fees and $36,442 in book income.)

While Clinton’s campaign committee has raised a total of $159.9 million so far, the candidate’s own contributions make her by far the biggest source of funds, exceeding the amounts she has raised from partners and employees of major law firms like Paul Weiss ($232,684) and DLA Piper $225,363), as well as the executives and employees of major companies like Google ($224,817) and Morgan Stanley ($222,177), according to figures compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics.

That could prove awkward for a candidate who has portrayed herself as a campaign reformer and touted the importance of small donors in financing her candidacy. And the timing of some of Clinton’s speeches — especially when matched up against the payments to her campaign — raise questions about whether her lucrative speech fees effectively amount to a “pass through” of money from special interest groups to help bankroll her candidacy, according to Jacobs and other ethics advocates.

This would appear to be especially the case for the $1.4 million she collected for six speeches in the first three months of 2015. It was a time when the “testing the waters” period of her campaign had already begun and Clinton staffers were being hired in New Hampshire and Iowa. Campaign records show that campaign manager Robby Mook began racking up travel bills (later paid by Clinton herself) as early as Jan. 12, 2015; Abedin and Craig began doing campaign work (also later paid by Clinton) three days later. Her former chief of staff, Cheryl Mills, began billing for campaign-related legal work on Feb. 2.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/q9oTIgdlU1yi1R.erJnFHA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://41.media.tumblr.com/e1087d0fe5fd040030354335ed65bebc/tumblr_inline_o5hlyb5viA1tdgnv1_1280.jpg)
Hillary Clinton's campaign manager Robby Mook, pictured here at a campaign office in February 2016 in Las Vegas. (Photo: Ethan Miller/Getty Images)


During this period, Clinton collected $674,500 for three speeches in Canada on Jan. 20 and 21, 2015 (one of them paid for and two of them co-sponsored by the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce.) On March 11, 2015, she received $315,000 for a speech to eBay employees in San Jose. That was followed by a $260,000 payment from the New York chapter of the American Camping Association for a talk in Atlantic City on March 19, her last speech before her April 12, 2015, formal announcement that she was a candidate. (Clinton began writing checks to her campaign the next day, on April 13.)

“It certainly seems like what she was doing was raising money for her campaign,” said Anne Weismann, executive director for Campaign for Accountability, a watchdog group that advocates for greater transparency in politics. “Everybody knew she was going to run at that point.”

Weismann said that under federal election rules, prospective candidates have wide latitude to conduct private business (and later spend their own money) for “testing the waters” expenses before they formally declare their candidacy. “It’s a squishy area of the law,” she said.

But she said the most problematic talk appeared to be the final speech before the camping association. The group is a small nonprofit whose $260,000 payment to Clinton (more than the $225,000 she received for talks to the Bank of America or Morgan Stanley) amounted to more than 10 percent of the group’s $2.1 million budget. That recently prompted the organization to add a special note in its annual tax filing with the charities bureau of the New York attorney general’s office, calling the payment to Clinton (described only as a “high-profile politician”) as a “one-time expense” that is “not expected to occur in the subsequent year.”

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WyeyzkKxLSY#)
Quote
“It’s hard to see how it fits with the mission of that organization to pay $260,000 for a speaker who is about to run for president,” said Weismann. “It all kind of stinks.”

The key figure who arranged the talk was the group’s former president, Jay Jacobs, a prominent summer-camp entrepreneur. He is also the Nassau County Democratic Party chairman, a million-dollar donor to the Clinton Foundation and a Clinton campaign bundler who is throwing a major fundraiser tonight at one of the six camps he owns, the North Shore Day Camp, in Glen Cove on Long Island.

“I made the ask” [to Clinton], Jacobs confirmed to Yahoo News, when asked how the former secretary of state came to speak to the camping group’s annual Tri-State CAMP conference in Atlantic City. Other top officials in the group approached him about the idea because of his well-known relationship with the Clintons, he said. Hillary Clinton, when recently pressed by CNN’s Anderson Cooper about  why she was paid  by so much money ($675,000 for three speeches) from Goldman Sachs, replied, “that’s what they offered.”

But that does not appear to have been the case with the nonprofit camping group, according to Jacobs’ account. When he made the request to Clinton’s agent, the Harry Walker Agency, “that’s the fee they came up with,” Jacobs said.

But Jacobs rejected the idea there was anything inappropriate — or political — about Clinton’s talk to the organization. Unlike her speeches to Wall Street, Clinton’s appearance that day — a 30-minute talk followed by a 30-minute Q&A session with Jacobs — was open to the press and received largely positive reviews. She talked about her days attending Girl Scout camp, her angst when she sent Chelsea off to language camp for a week one summer (“It was our worst week — well I’ve had a few bad weeks. But it was up there.”) and how the problems of Washington might be solved if there were “camps for adults.” (“We can have the red cabin, the blue cabin, and have to come together and actually listen to each other.”)

“Nobody in the camping association would have had any thought about her campaign,” Jacobs said. “Nobody — including me — had any thought about the money going into her campaign.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/are-hillarys-big-speaking-fees-being-used-to-help-205257476.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/are-hillarys-big-speaking-fees-being-used-to-help-205257476.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2016, 10:45:58 PM
Quote
How Bill Clinton lost his legacy
Yahoo News
Matt Bai  National Political Columnist  April 14, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/zvo244.wt2aXhk6XGX0riQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/b425eb8e88cc515fad2f0aadcd148aa9)
Former President Bill Clinton at a benefit concert for his wife in New York City in March. (Photo: Mike Segar/Reuters)



When Bill Clinton left office in 2001, historians compared him to Teddy Roosevelt. Like the Bull Moose, the Big Dog was unusually young (only 54) and still popular when he finished his presidency. He established his base in New York, about 100 blocks from where Roosevelt was born.

For a while there was even talk of Clinton running for mayor, as Roosevelt once had. What a spectacle that would have been.

Looking back now, though, the comparison seems wildly off. Roosevelt, you may recall, ended up running for president again and then crusading against Woodrow Wilson’s pacifism. To the day he died in 1919, TR jealously protected his twin legacy of reform and internationalism.

Clinton, on the other hand, has run from every big ideological fight like a man on parole. From the moment he stepped out of the White House, the husband of a newly elected senator, his own political interests have been subservient to his wife’s.

Sure, he started a foundation and got crazy rich, but for the last 16 years — a period in which much of what he achieved has been steadily distorted and discredited — Clinton has been chained by the role of dutiful political spouse.

And so this is what it’s come to, as the most talented campaigner of the modern age apologizes for defending his own record and stumps cautiously for Hillary ahead of next week’s New York primary. What was supposed to be the final validation of Bill Clinton’s legacy inside the Democratic Party — the election of his wife as a successor — has now become the only thing left that can save it.

To be clear, Clinton’s governing legacy, unlike Roosevelt’s, featured little by way of transformative legislation. Though he presided over a surging economy, Clinton’s presidency played out mostly like a tragedy in three acts: first the stumble over health care; then the survival of Republican rule through compromise; and finally the sex scandal that crippled his second term.

Whatever lasting achievements Clinton might have claimed as world leader were probably washed away eight months after he left office, when the sudden strike of terrorists exposed a glaring failure of his tenure.

But Clinton’s more lasting political legacy — the thing for which he should have been remembered — was the transformation of the Democratic Party from a tired, marginalized coalition of interest groups to a governing entity that embraced modern realities.

As I was recently reminded watching “Crashing the Party,” an  upcoming documentary about the founding of the Democratic Leadership Council in the 1980s, Democrats by 1992 had lost five of the previous six presidential elections and were losing ground everywhere else. They were perceived, fairly, as reflexively anti-military and anti-business.

Clinton’s central argument, which it took no small amount of courage to make in those early days, was that in order to both win and govern effectively, Democrats had to stop agitating for an ever more expansive government and start trying to build a better one.

That was the philosophy that underlay Clinton’s string of pragmatic achievements: free trade, a balanced budget, welfare reform, the crime bill. For a while, anyway, it seemed like he had left an indelible stamp on the party, widening its focus from the poor and excluded to encompass the broader middle class.

Except then came the Iraq War and the collapse of Wall Street, a crushing recession followed by an even more crushing recession and soaring inequality. Angry liberal populism reemerged as a powerful force, first in Howard Dean’s insurgency and then through the reborn John Edwards and now Bernie Sanders.

At first, both Clintons tried gamely to defend the underpinnings of what became known as Clintonism. “I think that if ‘progressive’ is defined by results, whether it’s in health care, education, incomes, the environment, or the advancement of peace, then we had a very progressive administration,” Clinton told me during an interview in 2006 for my first book, on Democratic politics.

When I had lunch with him in South Carolina the next year, while working on a cover piece for the New York Times Magazine about his legacy, Clinton readily agreed to talk more about it. By then, though, Hillary Clinton’s aides had decided that the more Bill went on about his own centrist legacy, the less helpful he became. They promptly quashed the interview.

Now, some eight years later, the DLC is long dead (succeeded by a group called Third Way), and Clinton’s legacy inside his own party is savaged as never before. He’s derided on the left as a shill for Wall Street, a racist for supporting mass incarceration, a conservative for overhauling welfare.

Clinton refuses to defend his own record at any length, and when he can’t help himself and plunges in anyway — as he did in rightly defending the crime bill to a couple of activists last week — he almost immediately retreats.

It’s hard now to escape the conclusion that Clinton did not ultimately transform his party, the virus of Clintonism having been expelled from its bloodstream. Ordinary Democrats still love the former president, but the Democratic leaders and activists reject pretty much everything he stood for.

In politics, you see, timing is everything. Bill Clinton arrived on the scene at a time when Democrats were desperate and dispirited, and they were willing to entertain any argument that might reverse their string of losses, even if it clashed with their own dogma.

Hillary never had that luxury. She’s trying to fend off her own Jerry Brown circa 1992 at a time when Democrats have been winning presidential elections, and winning parties tend to care a lot about ideological purity. She can’t have Bill out there excoriating populism and protectionism.

Maybe this is Bill Clinton’s penance — the price he pays for having humiliated his wife so publicly in 1998. Maybe in order to salvage what remained of his presidency and his marriage, he ultimately had to be willing to sacrifice his own case for historical relevance.

Maybe this is why Clinton seems so much older all of a sudden, the white hair more brittle, the eyes more watery, the cranelike movements of the arms slower and more deliberate. You can imagine how all that forced silence takes its toll, how physically ruinous it must be to keep the fury inside, when all you want to do is defend yourself.

What we know is that if Hillary Clinton goes on from New York to win the nomination, it will have more to do with the Obama record than with her husband’s. And if she’s elected in November, it won’t validate Bill’s legacy so much as offer him some path to redemption.

Bill Clinton once argued to me that Teddy Roosevelt didn’t see his own progressive legacy affirmed for 24 years after he left office, when his distant cousin, Franklin, was elected with the same name and a similar platform. That may or may not be a sound interpretation of history.

But you can see why it’s a comforting thought.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-bill-clinton-lost-his-1406972950126646.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-bill-clinton-lost-his-1406972950126646.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 15, 2016, 04:53:18 AM
That was a good read.

It takes me back to the days of the dynamic duo, Bill Clinton and Rush Limbaugh that used to make me ballistic, even when I agreed with them. You know, Bill Clinton being the champion of women in the workplace, Rush being the spokesperson for family values while on his fourth wife, or denouncing Communism while praising the merits of Cuban cigars. Some days I had to shut down the radio.

That guy would also drive me nuts doing some touchy feely I care about this one person thing, instead of walking the walk on policy, and I never understood why when the unions said NAFTA is where we draw the line, and he screwed them, they didn't ditch the party and join the Greens, or something.

Now I know, Clinton was the party savior.

Regardless, right about now I'm wishing for a 3rd term of Bill, considering my potential options.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 15, 2016, 06:38:50 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/oy-vey-john-kasich-jesus-splains-to-new-york-jews-how-passover-is-linked-to-christs-blood/ (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/oy-vey-john-kasich-jesus-splains-to-new-york-jews-how-passover-is-linked-to-christs-blood/)

"Uriel Heilman of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency recommended on Thursday that Kasich abstain from giving Christian Bible lessons to Jewish voters.

“Talking about Christ’s blood during a visit to Borough Park? Oy vey,” Heilman wrote. “Please, somebody, prep this guy Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn want to hear about food stamps, affordable housing, Medicaid. Ix-nay on the Jesus-nay.”
-------------------------------------------
Well, maybe my boy Kasich doesn't have the foreign policy/diplomacy chops I gave him credit for it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 16, 2016, 02:23:29 AM
Quote
John Kasich suggests women can avoid rape by forgoing drunken parties
Yahoo News
Alyssa Bereznak  National Correspondent, Technology  April 15, 2016



Another day on the campaign trail, another eyebrow-raising comment about what women should or shouldn’t do. This time the advice came from Republican presidential candidate John Kasich, the governor of Ohio.


At a town hall in Watertown, N.Y., a first-year student from St. Lawrence University asked Kasich what he’d do as president to help her feel safer regarding “sexual violence, harassment and rape.”

Kasich launched into a quick speech about ensuring rape kits and other resources are available to victims of sexual assault.

“In our state, we think that when you enroll you ought to absolutely know that if something happens to you along the lines of sexual harassment or whatever, you have a place to go where there is a confidential reporting, where there is an ability for you to access a rape kit, where that is kept confidential, but where it gives you an opportunity to be able to pursue justice after you have had some time to reflect on it all,” he said. “We are in a process of making sure that all higher education in our state — and this ought to be done in the country — that our coeds know exactly what the rules are, what the opportunities are, what the confidential policies are, so that you are not vulnerable, at risk and can be preyed upon.”

Continued the student, who had not finished saying her piece, “It’s sad that it’s something that I have to worry about just walking…”

“I’d also give you one bit of advice,” Kasich interrupted. “Don’t go to parties where there’s a lot of alcohol.” The room burst into applause.

With this comment, Kasich joined the ranks of those who place the onus for decreasing sexual assaults on female college students, asking them to alter their behaviors and avoid important campus social functions, while the lifestyles and habits of their male counterparts are treated as an unchangeable norm that does not need addressing. This line of thinking runs counter to recent national efforts to address sexual assault on campuses by encouraging bystander intervention and teaching men it is their responsibility not to hurt women, among other things.

It was hardly Kasich’s first time getting tripped up in response to a question by a young woman. Here are some other instances in which he has spoken to or about women awkwardly — or even, some would say, offensively.


Taylor Swift tickets

In an earlier run-in with a female college student, Kasich last October offended 18-year-old college newspaper staffer Kayla Solsbak when she raised her hand to ask a question and he reportedly said, “I’m sorry, I don’t have any Taylor Swift concert tickets.” She went on to pen an op-ed that called his comments condescending.


Women in kitchens

“How did I get elected?” Kasich asked at a campaign event on February. “I didn’t have anybody for me. We just got an army of people, and many women who left their kitchens to go out and to go door to door to put up yard signs for me.” Kasich later conceded women don’t hang out so much in kitchens these days, and later apologized if he offended anyone.


Social Security surprise

At another town hall, Kasich reportedly expressed bewilderment after a young woman asked him a Social Security question, wondering whether someone had told her to inquire about the topic. “I think for myself,” she replied.


The budget slim-down diet

During a November town hall in Iowa, Kaisch chose to describe balancing a budget to a female reporter by asking her, “Have you ever been on a diet?”

So there you have it. Young women questioners, you are John Kasich’s kryptonite.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-kasich-suggests-women-can-avoid-rape-by-213154951.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-kasich-suggests-women-can-avoid-rape-by-213154951.html)



Thing is, he's right, as far as that goes - but great, big F for that.  Men, Republican men, do not get to say that in public.  If he didn't have a SERIOUS butt-clench, I-can't-believe-I-said-that, moment as he finished the sentence, he's a moron.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 16, 2016, 04:12:50 AM
Kinda disappointing when he has a wife and two daughters.

I know it's an echo chamber in here, but I think it's time the GOP fractured. They've proven they can't work together under the "big tent."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 16, 2016, 04:14:22 AM
Libertarians and Statists together?  No such thing as that big a tent.

(Naturally, it's VERY MUCH a thing a man with daughters has said - to them, in private, when they were in school.  He's a dad; it's his job.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 16, 2016, 04:17:52 AM
But surely he still worries... He can't think that's enough.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 16, 2016, 05:20:20 AM
Nooo...

And how could he not know not to say that in public?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 16, 2016, 06:44:40 AM
My wife is a great one for whodunnits on TV. I have a theory that works really well for the dramas, and she has developed one for the real life murders that seems almost as good.

One thing I've learned from watching this stuff is that first attempts at rape are sloppy, but there are a lot of repeat offenders. Simply DNA testing the backlog of collected samples would solve a lot of crimes, and prevent a lot more from occurring. If they get away with it once...

Simply committing to budget for the backlog nationally would be a great stride forward, because they can easily change states when it gets too hot for them, and just because one state or city isn't backlogged, doesn't mean there aren't others in driving distance..

That would be a political solution. If I had daughters they would be enrolled in martial arts. They would have dogs, too.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on April 16, 2016, 01:59:32 PM
Thing is, he's right, as far as that goes - but great, big F for that.  Men, Republican men, do not get to say that in public.  If he didn't have a SERIOUS butt-clench, I-can't-believe-I-said-that, moment as he finished the sentence, he's a moron.

Well, if women who go to drunken parties tend to get raped by men, why don't we just tell men not to go drunken parties?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 16, 2016, 02:26:00 PM
My dad did.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2016, 12:07:20 AM
Quote
Clinton vs. Sanders: It’s all about the ‘judgment’
Yahoo News
Lisa Belkin  Chief National Correspondent  April 14, 2016



The first word out of the gate at the Democratic debate at the Brooklyn Navy Yard on Thursday was the one both campaigns have been using a lot lately — “judgment.”

Bernie Sanders began by questioning whether his opponent had it. “Does Secretary Clinton have the experience and the intelligence to be our president? Of course she does,” he said, attempting to separate résumé from philosophy.

“But I do question her judgment. I question the judgment that voted for the war in Iraq, the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of this country, voted for virtually every disastrous trade agreement, which cost us millions of decent-paying jobs, and I question her judgment about super-PACs, which are collecting tens of millions of dollars from special interests… I don’t believe that is the kind of judgment we need to be the kind of president we need.”

Hillary came storming back, defending her judgment. “Sen. Sanders did call me unqualified,” she said. “I’ve been called a lot of things in my life. That was a first,” she continued, to laughter. “Well, the people of New York voted for me twice to be their senator … and President Obama trusted my judgment enough to ask me to be secretary of state for the United States.”

She then pivoted to the issue that everyone was anticipating, the awkward interview Sanders gave to the New York Daily News last week. “Talk about judgment,” she said, “and talk about the kinds of problems he had answering questions about even his core issue: breaking up the banks… He could not explain how that would be done. … I think you need to have the judgment on Day 1 to be both president and commander in chief.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-v-sanders-its-all-about-the-judgment-020159796.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-v-sanders-its-all-about-the-judgment-020159796.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2016, 01:59:56 AM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFzb3sz2Vww#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
Quote
Bill Clinton gets himself in trouble, but he’s an asset for Hillary in New York
Yahoo News
Liz Goodwin  April 17, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/lpzU_648i_6Lf.Tl4ROK.A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://40.media.tumblr.com/a501a53b0fdf182e0bf8ab1aabd15086/tumblr_inline_o5shh0oTnI1sjed45_1280.jpg)
Former President Bill Clinton campaigns in support of his wife at the headquarters of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. (Dennis Van Tine/STAR MAX/IPx)



NEW YORK, NY — “Yes!” a young man cried out, clutching his smartphone with one hand and using the other to push himself out of a throng of people. “I touched him!”

None of the other people gathered in the small courtyard at New York-Presbyterian Hospital on Friday seemed to notice the man’s moment of personal triumph. They continued to clutch their phones and shuffle closer to the 42nd president of the United States, his white hair gleaming in the spring sunshine.

Bill Clinton has crisscrossed New York City, stumping for his wife in the final weeks before Tuesday’s primary, meeting with Albanian-Americans in the Bronx, black churchgoers in Harlem, union workers in Midtown, and others. The former president has made a couple of high-profile mistakes here — including scolding activists for questioning his crime bill and mocking Bernie Sanders’ supporters. But Clinton’s team insists that his star power and gifted politicking will matter far more in the Empire State on Tuesday than his tendency to put his foot in his mouth.

“I think there’s what you see covered in the press and then there’s the impact he has on voters,” said Clinton strategist Jen Palmieri. “He’s effective everywhere but he’s particularly effective in New York. You’ll see how the election turns out, but there’s a reason we use him a lot here.”

Since leaving the White House, Clinton has rebranded himself as a New Yorker — basing his foundation’s offices in Harlem and befriending local politicians. Voters here feel like they know him.

“I love Bill Clinton!” said Marta Reyes, an administrator at New York-Presbyterian Hospital, who came outside to hear him speak on Friday. “I felt so hurt that he couldn’t run another time. And a lot of people felt that way.”

“I came to shake his hand,” said Margaret Gaines, a pharmacy technician at the event. “I want a selfie!”

Bill Clinton doesn’t just offer familiarity; he offers entertainment. The former president’s stump speech, in a refreshing contrast to his wife’s, can be unpredictable. “People are interested in what he says,” said Richard Socarides, a former aide in the Clinton White House who is running to be a Clinton pledged delegate in New York. “He’s still incredibly dynamic and … he’s often quite provocative.”

While Clinton generates excitement and press coverage, he also causes headaches for the much more on-message, conservative Hillary Clinton campaign. The former president has moments when he presents an argument for Hillary in a clear and folksy way that resonates with the room, when his pride in her achievements appears to charm the crowd. But other times, he gets sidetracked defending his own record or legacy, taking him off his wife’s message and occasionally even criticizing Obama. “I think it’s always going to be challenging to find the right balance between his role as a spouse and a role as former president,” Socarides said.

At an event in Philadelphia earlier this month, he shouted at two black protesters who came to speak out against his 1994 crime bill and Hillary Clinton’s advocacy for it. (Hillary Clinton referred to young people who commit violent crimes as “super predators” in 1996; she has since disavowed the term.) “You are defending the people who kill the lives you say matter,” Clinton said.

He then launched into a lengthy defense of the bill, which Hillary has distanced herself from, making criminal justice reform a key part of her platform. “Because of that bill, we have a 25-year low in crime, a 33-year low in murder rate,” Bill Clinton said. It took him several minutes to get back to his wife. “Hillary didn’t vote for that bill, because she wasn’t in the Senate,” he finally said, adding that she was the “first candidate” who backed getting nonviolent offenders out of prison.

The Sanders campaign jumped on the exchange. “Our senior statesman should not be mistreating our young activists,” said Sanders surrogate and former head of the NAACP Ben Jealous. “I worry that he thought he was blowing his old dog whistle that day, and he should keep that dog whistle in his pocket.” (Clinton raised the ire of some African-American voters during the 2008 campaign when he referred to Obama’s candidacy as a “fairytale” and compared his presidential run to Jesse Jackson’s. When the Obama campaign objected to these remarks as racially tinged, Clinton argued that they “played the race card” on him.)

Then, on Friday, the former president joked at an event in Fort Washington that Sanders’ message to his young supporters is “just shoot every third person on Wall Street and everything will be fine.“ Sanders shot back on Twitter that the president was “disparaging” the young people who backed him.

It’s not his speeches, however, but rather what comes after them that can cause the most stress for the Clinton campaign. The former president almost never misses the opportunity to greet voters who crowd around him on the rope line after events — and he’s been known to answer questions from reporters who infiltrate the line. According to one Clinton aide, the former president’s press secretary, Angel Urena, follows him closely while Bill works rope lines after his events.

“Every rope line, he’s so stressed,” the aide said of Bill Clinton’s press secretary. “If he wants to answer a question, he’s going to answer the question.”

Even with his missteps and unpredictability, the Clinton campaign is grateful to have a former and largely popular president at hand to fill up organizing rallies and motivate the base. Hillary said at a recent debate that she’s not a “natural” politician like her husband, and it does seem clear that Bill enjoys himself, especially while working the rope line after events. He has heartfelt conversations with voters as others crush in, videotaping him. By the end of his hand shaking and selfie taking and stranger hugging, he will sometimes sprint back for one more voter interaction, like a sugar addict diving back to the candy jar. At a packed event in a Long Island restaurant earlier this month, he appeared to be halfway out of the venue before he dashed back to quickly grab a pink-swaddled baby for one last photo op.

He hoisted the baby above his head as voters squealed in delight.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-clinton-gets-himself-in-trouble-but-hes-an-174525300.html?nhp=1 (https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-clinton-gets-himself-in-trouble-but-hes-an-174525300.html?nhp=1)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 01:16:31 AM
Quote
A contested convention in the age of the smartphone
Yahoo News
Alyssa Bereznak  National Correspondent, Technology  April 15, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/dUNcsHgg5zzLGfb7QyiOEg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9NDA1O2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/fd8d64b866423233c31c6d9074dd34f0/tumblr_inline_o5seojFV4G1qchxpg_540.jpg)
Photo illustration: Yahoo News, photos: AP



This July, thousands of delegates, party officials, campaign staff and journalists will descend on the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland for the Republican National Convention. It is possible, or even likely, that no candidate will win the presidential nomination on the first or second ballots — something that hasn’t happened since 1952, back when the closest thing to a computer was a giant calculator, telephones required land lines, and the founder of Twitter had yet to be conceived. Though candidates were able to use broadcast television as a tool to influence results, any backdoor power brokering at the convention went relatively undocumented.

Technologically, the 2016 landscape is much different. In the era of the iPhone, the near 20,000-person crowd that will fill the Quicken Loans Arena will serve as both its own private media network and — depending on the capabilities of the venue — a bandwidth-swamping black hole. 2,472 people in that crowd will be the delegates who will vote to nominate the president. And, according to a recent report from Politico, each candidate’s team has already begun developing tech tools for tracking the faces, names, and home states of each of them. All of this political negotiating will take place as smartphone-toting supporters of Donald [Sleezebag], Ted Cruz, and John Kasich document the scene via Snapchat and Vine, producing their own real-time feeds full of rumors and disinformation.

But the precise technology that will be at play on the convention floor is still anyone’s guess. A [Sleezebag] convention strategist told Politico that his team will use some sort of “custom-built hardware” with a “closed loop” system that would allow his staff to communicate efficiently without having to rely on potentially unreliable Wi-Fi (it sounds suspiciously like a walkie-talkie). Cruz’s team, on the other hand, plans to build an iPhone app that works offline and contains strategic data about each delegate and whether they might be swayed. Kasich has yet to divulge a strategy. Ideally, each candidate’s team will need a tool that can (1) effectively record and deliver data and messages without relying on what will likely be an overwhelmed Wi-Fi network, and (2) possibly identify or track delegates on the floor.

Though some “House of Cards” buffs might think a campaign tracks delegates via a big whiteboard in a hotel room, state-specific rules make record keeping much more complicated. Depending on whether you’re a delegate from Iowa or a delegate from Hawaii, you may be bound to vote for a given candidate for one or more rounds of voting. Any data-based tracking app would need to account for this web of restrictions and send push alerts when a delegate is free to change his vote, so the managers know the best time to court him.

When it comes to battling the congested cellular network that candidates are sure to encounter during the convention, one of the most reliable options for teams to communicate may be a mesh network app like FireChat. These wireless networks can function entirely without Internet, as long as a minimum number of people in a concentrated location use them. FireChat uses Bluetooth and peer-to-peer Wi-Fi connections to link up nearby phones that also have the app installed. If enough people have the app, they form a distributed network and can pass messages along in one large public stream.

According to Christophe Daligault, a marketing officer at FireChat, tools like these have become popular during political events when Wi-Fi networks are overwhelmed — or when authorities shut down Internet services in order to control information. The app first took off during the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong in August 2014, when half a million people used it during the span of a week. Since then, it’s been used during elections in the Congo and Venezuela, and for less formal instances on cruise ships or at Burning Man. Daligault said his team briefly met with then-Republican presidential candidate Rand Paul last year to discuss his campaign’s possible use of the app.

FireChat currently works as a type of location-based Twitter feed, where everyone in one particular location can see the messages that people are typing into the app. But within the next month, it will allow users to create their own private networks so they can invite only their acquaintances.

“The beauty of it is, it goes wherever you go,” Daligault told Yahoo News. “It’s your own social network that doesn’t need a network.”

Depending on the guidelines that the Republican National Convention rules committee sets before the event, candidates may also attempt to use tracking techniques that have traditionally been used at trade shows. Organizers can track attendees by placing radio frequency identification (RFID) chips inside their badges, each of which contains information about an individual. According to Brian Ludwig, a senior vice president of sales at the event technology company Cvent, it’s common practice to code certain categories into each attendee’s chip, such as his state or industry. This same technology could be incredibly helpful to tipping off candidates’ teams about where delegates are traveling on the convention floor.

“I want to know who’s going in on the trade show floor, how long they’re standing in front of certain booths, and the interested parties,” he told Yahoo News. “You could have someone scanning folks at the door. But that’s obtrusive, and you have to have staff. Putting mats down or RFID panels on doorways can allow less obvious tracking of folks.”

If convention organizers are unwilling to offer that kind of information to campaign staff, another option could be to use something called beacon technology. Here’s how it works: Candidates could ask delegates to download and activate an app made specifically for the convention. Strategically placed small trackers — $20 contraptions shaped like hockey pucks — at key locations in the arena would register a delegate’s presence, as long as his or her Bluetooth is on, and automatically send a push notification to that delegate’s phone.

“At the end of the day, when someone goes to that convention their inbox is a mess,” Ludwig said. “They’re going to have 500 emails by the time they leave after a couple days. Literally the best conduit to someone’s eyeballs is not by sending them an email or text, but sending them a push notification that pops no matter what, even if the app is closed down.”

According to Ludwig, Cvent is in talks with the RNC to provide preregistration, online check-in, badges, and a mobile app for an event made up of about 1,300 “major VIP donor types” at the convention. Whether [Sleezebag], Cruz, or Kasich will eventually adopt any of the company’s techniques, however, is yet to be seen.
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-contested-convention-in-the-age-of-the-154440585.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-contested-convention-in-the-age-of-the-154440585.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 01:23:34 AM
Quote
Sanders at Vatican says rich-poor gap worse than 100 years ago
Yahoo News
By Philip Pullella  April 15, 2016



VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - U.S. presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, addressing a Vatican conference on social justice on Friday, decried the “immoral” gap between the world’s rich and poor that he said was worse than a century ago.

The Democratic hopeful from Vermont has campaigned on a vow to rein in corporate power and level the economic playing field for working and lower-income Americans who he says have been left behind, a message echoing that of Pope Francis.

The trip is inconveniently timed for 74-year-old senator, coming four days before a Democratic party primary in New York. A loss there would blunt his momentum after winning seven of the last eight state contests and give front-runner Hillary Clinton a boost in her drive to the party’s presidential nomination.

Sanders said in his speech to the Pontifical Academy of Social Science that the Roman Catholic Church’s first encyclical on social justice, written in 1891 by Pope Leo XIII, lamented the enormous gap between the rich and the poor.

“That situation is worse today. In the year 2016, the top 1 percent of the people on this planet own more wealth than the bottom 99 percent,” the self-described democratic socialist said.

“At a time when so few have so much, and so many have so little, we must reject the foundations of this contemporary economy as immoral and unsustainable,” he said.

Sanders, the Brooklyn-born son of Polish Jewish immigrants, has said the trip was not a pitch for the Catholic vote but a testament to his admiration for Pope Francis, whom he is not expected to see during his flying visit.

He will be back on the campaign trail on Sunday.


CHANTS OF “BERNIE, BERNIE” AT VATICAN GATE After reading the speech in the academy building inside the Vatican grounds, Sanders walked outside one of the city-state’s gates to talk to reporters and was greeted by chants of “Bernie, Bernie, Bernie” from a vocal group of local supporters.

Pope Francis sent a message to the academy, saying he had wanted to meet the conference participants in the evening, but could not because he is leaving Rome early on Saturday to visit refugees on the Greek island of Lesbos.

Saying he was “proud and excited to be here”, Sanders praised the pope’s visionary views about creating “a moral economy, an economy that works for all people and not just for the people on top”.

Reflecting the themes of his campaign, he said he and the pope both agreed that “we’ve got to ingrain moral principles into our economy and there is no area where that is clearer than the area of climate change. The greed of the fossil fuel industry is literally destroying our planet”.

Pope Francis wrote a major encyclical, or papal treatise, last year on the need to respect the environment.

In other parts of his speech, Sanders decried “reckless financial deregulation,” including rules on political party financing, that he said had “established a system in which billionaires can buy elections” in exchange for laws that would make them only richer.

“Rather than an economy aimed at the common good, we have been left with an economy operated for the top one percent, who get richer and richer as the working class, the young and the poor fall further and further behind,” he said.

Sanders will spend less than 24 hours in Rome before returning to the campaign trail before the New York primary on Tuesday.

(Additional reporting by Crispian Balmer in Rome and John Whitesides in Washington; Editing by Tom Heneghan)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-heads-vatican-says-trip-not-political-105810353.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-heads-vatican-says-trip-not-political-105810353.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 01:37:31 AM
Quote
Trumphobia: The American traveler’s guide to dealing with embarrassing questions
Yahoo News
Jerry Adler  Writer  April 15, 2016


(http://cdn.onegreenplanet.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10//2015/03/pig.png)
(Substitute photo)


The woman, a retired schoolteacher from San Diego, was sitting with a friend in an almost empty restaurant in Civitavecchia, a seaside town not far from Rome. She had recently left a Mediterranean cruise, a ship full of Australians and Europeans, and was happy to discover that the only other couple in the dining room that evening was American.

“At least,” she said, “I don’t have to defend Donald [Sleezebag] to you.”

You’re looking forward to your trip to Europe this summer. Thanks to an improving American economy, foreign travel by Americans is projected to increase almost 6 percent in 2016, in the face of fears about overbooked flights, terrorist attacks and exotic viruses. But those are familiar worries. The new and worrisome risk with traveling abroad in 2016 is being asked about Donald [Sleezebag]. His suspicion of foreigners is matched by their fascination with him. Whatever your own feelings about him, you will likely find yourself on the defensive.

At least since Charles Dickens visited the U.S. in 1842, Europeans have been amused, baffled and even frightened by American politics — a realm, Dickens wrote, of “despicable trickery at elections, under-handed tamperings with public officers, cowardly attacks upon opponents” and other deplorable behaviors that fill an entire chapter of “American Notes.” It’s a shame the author lived in a different century than Donald [Sleezebag], who was recently called “a great Dickensian character” by no less a literary and political critic than Sylvester Stallone. Dickens could have paid off all his debts by filling the insatiable European demand for Trumpiana.

“On the whole, the [Sleezebag] phenomenon is getting equal attention in the U.K. as in the U.S., if not more,” says Matthew Reading-Smith, 29, a native of Michigan who has been living and working in London for five years and was back home last over Thanksgiving. “Wherever I am, whenever someone notices my American accent, they ask me about Donald. I’m being asked to justify the country I come from.” [Sleezebag], he says, “strikes fear into the liberal values of Europe” and threatens, in the minds of Europeans, the special trans-Atlantic relationship that has been a cornerstone of the international order for decades.

“Even Republicans,” says Cathal Gilbert, 35, an Irish citizen who works in international human rights in London. “And I do know a few who work in human rights, even they are appalled. They bury their faces in the salad bowl if I dare bring him up.” To understand the [Sleezebag] phenomenon, Gilbert says, he went on YouTube for a few hours to watch his speeches. “When you listen to him, he makes a certain amount of sense to the audience he’s talking to. It’s not cogent, but it’s compelling.”

“For a long time, I had it easy,” says Tor Hodenfield, a 28-year-old Brooklyn native who has lived in Africa and in Switzerland and is now a graduate student at University College London. “I was an American, I was representing Barack Obama, everything was cool. Since [Sleezebag] came on the scene, all that’s changed.” In fact, Obama himself has this problem, telling reporters last week, “I am getting questions constantly from foreign leaders about some of the wackier suggestions that are being made” by [Sleezebag], and also his rival Sen. Ted Cruz, whom Obama described as “just as Draconian when it comes to immigration.” (Hillary Clinton said last month that she has been asked by the leaders of other countries whether they can endorse her to stop [Sleezebag]. She hasn’t identified the countries.)

There are no easy answers here. You might have to change tables once or twice during your cruise, or affect a British or Australian accent (best not to try this around Brits or Australians, obviously), or simply throw up your hands, as the San Diego woman did, and say, “Don’t look at me; I don’t get it either.” But as a public service, Yahoo News has a few suggestions for how to deflect questions — earnest, puzzled, well-intentioned or hostile — from citizens of other countries where candidates don’t seek office by boasting about their sexual endowments.


“So’s your old man.” This won’t actually win any arguments, but it can at least change the subject, and there’s some satisfaction in pointing out that [Sleezebag]’s eccentricities are not without precedent in Europe. Silvio Berlusconi, the billionaire media mogul who was off-and-on prime minister of Italy between 1994 and 2011, was also given to extravagant displays of bad taste and sexual braggadocio. England wrote the book on this kind of ruler, admittedly in the 16th century, with King Henry VIII — if you think [Sleezebag] is hard on women, at least he hasn’t beheaded any of his wives. More seriously, the last few years have seen an upsurge in support for various nativist, nationalist, anti-immigrant parties in Western Europe, notably Marine Le Pen’s National Front, in France, and the United Kingdom Independence Party, which is pushing for Britain to leave the European Union, attracting “the same kind of Anglo-Saxon ethnic pride” that [Sleezebag] is tapping into, says Reading-Smith.


“Ever hear of Bernie Sanders?” Hodenfield likes to use this when he’s cornered on the subject of [Sleezebag], invoking the democratic socialist senator whose platform of universal health care and free college should win accolades from Western Europeans. The problem is, most of them have not heard of Sanders, whereas [Sleezebag] is an all-pervasive presence in most European media. “My landlady’s Polish housekeeper barely speaks English,” Hodenfield says. “I doubt she knows who Hillary Clinton is — but she knows all about [Sleezebag].”

“It’s all a put-up job.” Reading-Smith says he has tried to plant the idea that the [Sleezebag] candidacy is actually a stealth operation to elect a Democrat by sabotaging the Republican Party with an unelectable candidate. Early on, a few Republicans said the same thing, semiseriously. Reading-Smith means it as a joke, of course. But no one is laughing now.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumphobia-the-american-traveler-s-1407538586271798.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumphobia-the-american-traveler-s-1407538586271798.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 02:24:16 AM
Quote
Sanders aide says the Clintons are showing their frustration
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  April 15, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/hetFyMF8_IeHHTkhODB0oQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/2247428ed86016c7fc5cf7a1a2a7af75)
Jeff Weaver, campaign manager for Sen. Bernie Sanders, at campaign headquarters in Burlington, Vt. (Photo: Brian Snyder/Reuters)



Jeff Weaver, campaign manager for Bernie Sanders’ presidential bid in the Democratic primary, believes the Vermont senator’s opponent and her husband are on edge.

Speaking to Yahoo News after the Democratic presidential debate in Brooklyn, N.Y., Weaver said he believes there has been a certain “edginess” in the Clinton campaign in the last few weeks, given that Sanders has won eight of the last nine primary contests.

“I think that their campaign never believed that they would be in the position they’re in right now, having to contest New York. I mean, they clearly thought that they would have everything wrapped up by now. They clearly said it: ‘We’re going to have it wrapped up by February, we’re going to have it wrapped up by March,’” Weaver said. “And it’s not wrapped up, and I think they’re very, very frustrated about it.”

Weaver said this tension was evident in a confrontation Hillary Clinton had with a woman who questioned her at an event late last month and and a testy exchange her husband, former President Bill Clinton, had with Black Lives Matter activists on April 7.

“It was reflected in the secretary’s outburst at the young woman on the rope line. I think it was reflected in President Clinton’s outburst to Black Lives Matter activists. … There’s like an edginess to their campaign that’s sort of going all through it. And I think it’s a function of the fact that they are in a place they wish they weren’t,” Weaver said.

Despite Sanders’ recent winning streak, Clinton’s victories earlier in the primary process have given her a pledged delegate lead so large that Sanders would need to win all the remaining contests by a wide margin to be able to beat her. The RealClearPolitics poll average shows Clinton has a 13.8 point lead in the New York primary, which will be held on April 19.

Clinton’s campaign manager, Robby Mook, told Yahoo News he is comfortable about her position.

“In terms of the race to get the nomination, it’s less a question of how much does Hillary win by, than how much should Sanders be winning by, if he has any hope of catching up to her in the nomination fight,” Mook said. “The fact is, you know, he would need to win New York by 20 or more points to even be in a position to try to capture the nomination. … If he loses, that path is really diminished quite a bit.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-aide-says-the-clintons-are-showing-their-051235395.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-aide-says-the-clintons-are-showing-their-051235395.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 18, 2016, 03:39:22 AM
Wow. I'm glad I'm not a Republican delegate this year. I'd be tempted to "Forget my phone".
I feel sorry for Bill. Why is his exchange with Black Lives Matter a big deal, but Hillary's in South Carolina was not? I guess The Donald was out of hiding that news cycle. As past president and party leader, he should be free to champion his own record and worldview at the time.


Well, maybe that's the price he pays for Hillary not walking out on him during the Lewinski episode.
Maybe being nice to the Obama Administration and protecting it's legacy is the price Hillary pays to keep her name out of the mud.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 03:42:44 AM
[shrugs] Maybe.

I'm sure I've mentioned that Mr. Clinton was my last choice of the huge herd running for 92.  I guess you can't argue with success, though, and he definitely had a successful presidency despite himself.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 18, 2016, 04:23:20 AM
He got stuff done. He was effective. Right or Wrong? I think pretty much every president and general is a mixed bag. Usually they screw up and learn from it, or at least get another chance. When you start to read that they were some kind of god or demon, suspect bias.

Much as I disliked him, I think he was better than St. Reagan, Bush the Lesser, Ford, Carter, Obama, and most regrettably, whoever we must endure next.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2016, 01:00:30 PM
Probably so.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 01:43:04 AM
Quote
Top T rump aide lobbied for Pakistani spy front
Yahoo News
Michael Isikoff  Chief Investigative Correspondent  April 18, 2016



For more than five years, Donald T rump’s new top campaign aide, Paul Manafort, lobbied for a Washington-based group that Justice Department prosecutors have charged operated as a front for Pakistan’s intelligence service, according to court and lobbying records reviewed by Yahoo News.

Manafort’s work in the 1990s as a registered lobbyist for the Kashmiri American Council was only one part of a wide-ranging portfolio that, over several decades, included a gallery of controversial foreign clients ranging from Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos and Zaire’s brutal dictator Mobutu Sese Seko to an  Angolan rebel leader accused by human rights groups of torture. His role as an adviser to Ukraine’s then prime minister, Viktor Yanukovych, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, prompted concerns within the Bush White House that he was undermining U.S. foreign policy. It was considered so politically toxic in 2008 that presidential candidate John McCain nixed plans for Manafort to manage the Republican National Convention — a move that caused a rupture between Manafort and his then business partner, Rick Davis, who at the time was McCain’s campaign manager.

Manafort’s work for the Kashmiri group has so far not gotten any media attention.

But it could fuel more questions about his years of lobbying for questionable foreign interests before Manafort, 67, assumed his new position as chief delegate counter and strategist for a presidential candidate who repeatedly  decries the influence of Washington lobbyists  and denounces the manipulation of U.S. policy by foreign governments.

Court records show that Manafort’s Kashmiri lobbying contract came on the FBI’s radar screen during a lengthy counterterrorism investigation that culminated in 2011 with the arrest of the Kashmiri council’s director, Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, on charges that he ran the group on behalf of Pakistan’s intelligence service, the ISI, as part of a scheme to secretly influence U.S. policy toward the disputed territory of Kashmir.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/QnNZRg0x.VXtRt8jMMYqOg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MjAwMDtoPTEzMzU7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://40.media.tumblr.com/b7b051fb6bd9946a18a2bfe1c3d38a4f/tumblr_inline_o5tu6zxrx51tdgnv1_1280.jpg)
Paul Manafort, convention manager for the T rump campaign, on “Meet the Press,” April 10. (Photo: William B. Plowman/NBC/NBC NewsWire via Getty Images)


The Kashmiri American Council was a “scam” that amounted to a “false flag operation that Mr. Fai was operating on behalf of the ISI,” Gordon D. Kromberg, the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case, said in March 2012 at Fai’s sentencing hearing in federal court. While posing as a U.S.-based nonprofit funded by American donors sympathetic to the plight of Kashmiris, it was actually bankrolled by the ISI in order to deflect public attention “away from the involvement of Pakistan in sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere,” Kromberg said. Fai, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy and tax fraud charges, was then sentenced to two years in federal prison.

Lobbying records filed with the secretary of the Senate show that Manafort’s lobbying firm, Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly, was paid $700,000 by the Kashmiri American Council between 1990 and 1995. This was among more than $4 million that federal prosecutors alleged came from the ISI; Fai collected the money over 20 years from “straw” American donors who were being reimbursed from secret accounts in Pakistan. (The funds were in some cases delivered to Fai in brown paper bags stuffed with cash — and then the donors reimbursed with wire transfers from ISI operatives, according to an FBI affidavit.)

Manafort, who handled the Kashmiri account for his firm, was never charged in the case, and Kromberg told Yahoo News that what knowledge, if any, he had of the secret source of money from his client was not part of the Justice Department’s investigation. (While registering with Congress as a domestic lobbyist for the Kashmiri American Council, Manafort never registered with the U.S. Justice Department as a foreign agent of Pakistan, as he would have been required to do if he was aware of the ISI funding of his client.)

But a former senior Pakistani official, who asked not to be identified, told Yahoo News that there was never any doubt on Pakistan’s part that Manafort knew of his government’s role in backing the Kashmiri council. The former official said that during a trip from Islamabad in 1994 he met with Manafort and Fai in Manafort’s office in Alexandria, Va., “to review strategy and plans” for the council. Manafort, at the meeting, presented plans to influence members of Congress to back Pakistan’s case for a plebiscite for Kashmir (the largest portion of which has been part of India since 1947), he said. (Internal budget documents later obtained by the FBI show plans by the council to spend $80,000 to $100,000 a year on campaign contributions to members of Congress.) “There is no way Manafort didn’t know that Pakistan was involved with” the council, the former official said, although he added: “Some things are not explicitly stated.”

Neither Manafort nor the T rump campaign responded to requests for comment for this story. (“I’m not working for any client right now other than working for Mr. T rump,” Manafort recently  said on NBC’s “Meet the Press”  when asked by moderator Chuck Todd about his past “controversial” clients.)


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/SMLiL0EhUKcEL_09wfzMNQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTYyNjtoPTE1NzQ7aWw9cGxhbmU-/http://36.media.tumblr.com/0ba41f8fd89bb3a5ef3b64e8cb053bb5/tumblr_inline_o5tu1hYZDM1tdgnv1_1280.jpg)
Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, executive director of the Kashmiri American Council, in 2007. (Photo: Roshan Mughal/AP)


But Manafort’s former partner Charlie Black, now an adviser to rival Republican presidential candidate John Kasich, said that as far as the firm was concerned, the Kashmiri council was a domestic, not a foreign, client. “Nobody was more surprised than me that the guy was taking the money from Pakistan,” Black said in a telephone interview. “We didn’t know anything about it.”

But there was no doubt on the part of the Indian government about where the money was coming from. Its officials repeatedly alleged that the Kashmiri council was a front group for Pakistan during the period that Manafort’s firm was lobbying for it. The issue blew up in September 1993 after Manafort and one of his lobbying associates, Riva Levinson, traveled to Kashmir and, according to Indian officials, posed as CNN reporters in an effort to gather video footage of interviews with Kashmiri officials.

“The whole thing was obviously a blatant operation of producing television software with a deliberate and particularly anti-Indian slant by lobbyists hired by Pakistan for this very purpose,” Shiv Shankar, then the Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in a letter to CNN in Atlanta at the time. (Levinson did not respond to a request for comment from Yahoo News. At the time she denied the Indian allegations, telling a UPI reporter, “We never misrepresented ourselves as journalists.”)

Exactly what Manafort did for the Kashmiri council is unclear from the sketchy lobbying reports his firm filed with the secretary of the Senate. Those reports show his firm first registered as lobbyists for the group in October 1990, the same year the group was founded by Fai. The reports list little beyond the purpose of the lobbying: to seek support for a House resolution by then-Rep. Dan Burton to sponsor a “peaceful resolution” of the Kashmir dispute. They also show payments to the firm of $140,000 a year. (During this time, Black, Manafort had a long list of other domestic clients that included the NRA, the Tobacco Institute and the T rump Organization, which paid the firm $70,000 a year to lobby Congress on casino gambling, aviation and tax issues, according to the lobbying records.)

“We went to the Hill for them to raise the profile of the [Kashmiri] cause,” said Black about the firm’s work for Fai’s council. “But nobody in Bush 41 [the administration of George H.W. Bush] or the Clinton administration wanted to touch it. We never got any real attention for it.”

The FBI came across evidence that ISI was actually not pleased with Manafort’s work. The bureau’s investigation began in 2005 with a tip from a confidential informant (who was seeking a reduced prison term) that Fai and an associate in Pakistan, Zaheer Ahmad, were agents of the ISI. As part of the probe, agents obtained secret national security warrants to wiretap Fai’s communications; they also searched his home and offices. Among the evidence they seized: a December 1995 letter from Fai’s main ISI handler, identified as a Pakistani Army brigadier general named Javeed Aziz Khan, who went by the name of “Abdullah,” that criticized Fai for renewing a contract with a public relations firm, according to the FBI affidavit from a counterterrorism agent, Sarah Webb Linden, that was filed to support Fai’s detention in July 2011.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/7PTWdhedAiq7myROdbPH5A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTQwO2g9MzYxO2lsPXBsYW5l/http://40.media.tumblr.com/3ef20b7110fc49cd3c80a571e6fa0c03/tumblr_inline_o5snb9lLhH1tdgnv1_540.jpg)
Lobbyist Charlie Black (Photo: Tom Williams/Roll Call/Getty Images)


Eight months later, at Fai’s sentencing hearing, prosecutor Kromberg for the first time identified the public relations firm as Black, Manafort, according to court records. He then detailed a dispute between Fai and his ISI handler over the Black, Manafort contract. Fai wrote back to Khan the next day insisting that the ISI official had in fact approved the renewal of the contract and noted that to “make it appear” that the council was a Kashmiri organization “financed by Americans,” there was a preexisting agreement that nobody from the Pakistani Embassy would ever contact Black, Manafort, said Kromberg. But Fai was overruled, according to Kromberg’s account. The ISI handler wrote back to Fai stating that that “‘we’ — a reference to the ISI — were unsatisfied with the performance of Black, Manafort & Stone, and advised Fai to terminate the contract immediately,” according to a transcript of Kromberg’s statement to the court.

Meanwhile, the FBI pursued even more alarming allegations relating to Ahmad, Fai’s Pakistan-based associate. According to a ProPublica account, the bureau questioned witnesses about a trip that Ahmad had allegedly made to Afghanistan with a Pakistani nuclear scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood; the scientist was suspecting of having met with Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri in August 2001 to discuss the terror leaders’ interest in acquiring nuclear weapons.

Manafort, for his part, appears to have expanded his business connections in Pakistan. In 2013 he acknowledged to French investigators that, in 1994, he had received $86,000 from two arms dealers involved in the sale of French attack submarines to Pakistan’s navy. The payments were part of an arrangement to compensate Manafort for political advice and polling he provided to French presidential candidate Édouard Balladur — one part of a wide-ranging French investigation into alleged kickbacks from arms sales dubbed by the French press “the Karachi affair.”

One puzzling question about the Kashmir case is why, six years after the investigation began, the FBI decided to arrest Fai in 2011. One explanation, a source familiar with the case said, is that it came during a period of mounting tensions between the United States and Pakistan, much of it due to concerns among U.S. national security officials about the “double game” being played by the ISI. In May of that year, President Obama ordered the U.S. raid that killed bin Laden without informing the Pakistani military, in part because of fears that elements of the ISI (an arm of the military) might have been protecting the al-Qaida leader. Just weeks later, federal prosecutors in Chicago presented  damning testimony in federal court  that an ISI handler had directed one of the confessed conspirators in the 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai — which killed 164 people, including six Americans — that was perpetrated by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani-based group with links to al-Qaida committed to “liberating” Muslims from Indian rule in Kashmir.

Then, on July 18, after Fai returned from a trip to the United Kingdom, the FBI confronted him for the third time about whether he had any connections to the ISI — and he denied it. Fai was arrested, and he and Ahmad (who remained in Pakistan and died later that year) were charged in federal court with being unregistered foreign agents of Pakistan.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-T rump-aide-lobbied-for-1409744144007222.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/top-T rump-aide-lobbied-for-1409744144007222.html)



Long story short - he's Uncle Duke from Doonesbury - and that makes working for the Pig a perfect fit...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 02:08:52 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders blasts critics who call his ideas unrealistic: ‘Nothing is radical’
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  April 18, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/9A1026loNZha4LLl4rL4nA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/d1b1ca64c487b60dcbef9403a18ac81d)
Bernie Sanders addresses supporters at a massive rally on Sunday in Brooklyn’s Prospect Park. (Photo: Spencer Platt/Getty Images)



Fresh from a whirlwind weekend in which he met the pope and drew his largest-ever crowd at a rally in Brooklyn, Bernie Sanders hit back against a theme that’s become central to Hillary Clinton’s campaign: He has some great ideas, but when it comes to getting them done, his plans are — as Larry David put it on “Saturday Night Live” — nothing more than “yada, yada, yada.”

On CNN’s “New Day” Monday, one day before New York’s primary, Sanders pointed out that he called for raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour from $7.50 more than five years ago.

“Most people thought that was a crazy idea,” the Vermont senator said. “Well, guess what. California, New York, Oregon have done it. Why? Because people stood up and fought.”

Sanders said the same about same-sex marriage.

“Ten years ago, would you have believed that gay marriage would be legal in all 50 states? Probably not,“ he said. “When people stand up and say, ‘We’ve got to end bigotry in America — people have a right to love whomever,’ change takes place.”

At a block party in Washington Heights Sunday, Clinton pushed her pragmatic message.

“It’s easy to diagnose the problem,” the Democratic frontrunner said. “You’ve got to be able to solve the problem.”

The Vermont senator, though, dismissed her criticism, saying his “radical ideas” are anything but.

“I believe everything we’re talking about,” Sanders said. “Nothing is radical. These ideas have existed in other countries. They’ve existed in the United States.”

His comments come on the eve of the Democratic primary in New York, where polls show Clinton with a comfortable, double-digit lead over Sanders in her adopted home state.

The Brooklyn-born Sanders urged an estimated 28,000 at his rally in Prospect Park Sunday to help him overcome her edge.

“When I was a kid growing up in Flatbush, our parents would take us to Prospect Park,” he said. “But I was never here speaking to 20,000 people. This is a campaign that’s on the move. This is a campaign that one year ago was considered a fringe candidacy — 70 points behind Secretary Clinton. Well they don’t consider us fringe anymore.”

“This is a movement of people who are prepared to think big, not small,” Sanders added. “People who want to elect not just the new president, but to transform America.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-yada-yada-nothing-is-radical-160605124.html?nhp=1 (https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-yada-yada-nothing-is-radical-160605124.html?nhp=1)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 02:53:11 AM
Quote
A party primary ‘is not a public decision,’ rules expert says
Yahoo News
Jon Ward  Senior Political Correspondent  April 18, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/9bImbxeW6El2WOGFEn4EdA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/eca7b2e471031b34ed4f314865a209ae)
Members of the Democratic National Committee Rules and Bylaws Committee, from left, Donna Brazile, Elaine Kamarck and Alice Germond vote on what to do with Florida delegates during their meeting in Washington in 2008. (Photo: LM Otero/AP)



Elaine Kamarck got her start in Democratic politics in the 1970s, at a time when political parties had just recently begun to open up the presidential nominating process. The modern primary system did not really even exist until that decade, after a set of party reforms following the 1968 election took control of the nominating process out of the hands of party insiders and allowed voters a greater say.

The current controversy over the Republican Party’s nominating process, driven by Donald T rump’s complaints that the system is “rigged” and “corrupt” — and his call for a “bold infusion of popular will” — ignores the fact that the rules have been generally the same for more than four decades. Kamarck, who started as an aide to President Jimmy Carter and became a top White House official during the Clinton administration in the ’90s, wrote a book called Primary Politics (2009), which explains the history of how the modern nominating process for Republicans and Democrats came to be.

She talked to Yahoo News about the current debate over the GOP system. The transcript of the conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.


Yahoo News: A lot of people are wondering about these rules for how delegates are selected. They’ve never really mattered since the primary season was opened up in 1972. Why is that?

Elaine Kamarck: They’ve mattered three times. They mattered for the Democrats in 1972. They mattered for the Republicans in 1976. And they mattered for the Democrats in 1980.


But for most people under 30, that’s ancient history.

True. Most people are accustomed to thinking that — if they think about those delegates at all — they think those are people brought to the convention to cheer on the nominee and wear stupid hats.


So why does it matter now?

The only reason it matters is because the voters haven’t given a clear-cut victory to someone. What we are accustomed to is: Someone wins early, they keep on winning, the other candidates drop out, and by the time you get to July, there isn’t a contest anymore. Whenever the voters don’t make a clear decision, the decision making falls to the delegates and you have essentially the system that existed prior to 1972, where party insiders get to make the decision. There’s nothing new about this. It’s just that in the modern situation, we’re not used to it.


It happened all the time pre-1972.

The first nominating convention was in 1832. Until 1968, Americans nominated their presidents in almost exactly the same way. It was party leaders, elected as delegates in their states, going to the convention. For all that time, almost no one ran in primaries. There were very few. In fact, running in a primary was considered a weakness, not a mark of strength. In ’72, because of … reform efforts on the Democratic side, more states held primaries, [and] those primaries suddenly were binding — or attempted to be — on the delegates.


What do you think of T rump’s complaint that the system is corrupt and unfair?

T rump’s out of his f***ing mind. Every single presidential candidate except for him knows what this system is. It’s not corrupt. It’s the system by which the parties pick their nominee. Parties are protected under the First Amendment’s freedom of assembly. No American is forced to participate.

Parties are institutions. They have an interest in preserving their brand. Coca-Cola doesn’t let Pepsi participate in their brand. Republicans don’t let Democrats participate in their brand. This is a party decision, and parties make these decisions based on their institutional health. Meaning, if you put someone at the top of the ticket that is so unpopular that you lose the House of Representatives, you’re not doing the right thing for your party.

The voters have been included to keep parties from getting really out of touch. In 1968, Democrats did not understand the depths of the antiwar sentiment in their party and cut [Vietnam War opponents] out of their convention. This time, the Republican Party didn’t understand the anger of voters for T rump. But the bottom line is, this is not a public decision — it’s a party decision.


Do you want that on the record, that T rump is out of his f***ing mind?

Yes. He’s out of his f***ing mind. He’s an a******. No other candidate has ever run for president so unprepared.


Do you think his arguments will influence the way we choose nominees?

The systems will only change if the parties themselves decide to change them. My guess is the system will move in the other direction from where T rump wants it to, with parties taking greater control of the nominations to keep them from being captured by people who sully the brand.


T rump is essentially arguing for direct democracy.

Exactly. He is arguing [for] direct democracy. The Congress has considered a national primary many times. Political parties, however, will never be for it. The current system is very open through the primaries and caucuses and to letting new people participate. At the same time, it has an insider piece to it. That’s why the system has persisted for 40-some years.

The general election is a different story because it’s a constitutionally sanctioned thing. The parties are a different thing. Parties have the right to say this person is not a Democrat or a Republican. They are voluntary associations of citizens. They are semipublic organizations. No democracy has ever managed to function without parties. They are crucial for organizing the electorate and helping people govern.


Why were the Founding Fathers concerned about parties?

The founders were concerned about the mischief of factions. They created this system of elaborate checks and balances to stop anybody from gaining too much power. What the founders created is something that T rump doesn’t like, where it is very hard for one faction to foist its will on others. The Founding Fathers tried to avoid factional disputes, and they did not succeed, because by 1800, the Jefferson versus Adams race was one of the meanest, nastiest party fights in history.

No other democracy in the world nominates its candidates in primaries. All the parliamentary democracies have party conferences and they have lists. You can’t just go run for Parliament in Devonshire [in the United Kingdom]. You have to be placed on a list by the central party committee.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/party-primaries-are-not-public-decisions-rules-154558765.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/party-primaries-are-not-public-decisions-rules-154558765.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 19, 2016, 03:55:38 AM
That was a lot to digest.

No surprise, but I like the one about the history of presidential candidate selection, and strangely enough, I approved of the ***** words.

Watched the Kasich and Cruz town halls hosted by Sean Hannity tonight, forgot the original air times.
He annoys me with his populist appeals on his show and as a host. Not because he's populist, but because he's uninformed, and he's misleading people....well, he is a FOX staffer.  "Why can't/shouldn't the guy with the most votes get the nomination?"

Why does he talk about "the rule of law" all of the time, and then think that the rules of the party don't matter?

Anyway, Cruz's take on it was that the selection process wasn't rocket science, and that anybody seriously seeking the highest office should, take the time to familiarize themselves with it.

Kasich explained that the delegates make the presidential candidate selection, and they aren't uninformed. They might reasonably decide to go with the candidate who would be a sure thing against Hillary in a general election, and secure the Supreme Court nominees, rather than risk the entire ticket - Congress, governors and state legislators, on a controversial candidate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 04:01:28 AM
I don't think having intermediaries vote -theoretically- on behalf of the people -instead of direct election- is all that much of a democracy thing; but delegates bound for at least the first ballot and free to adapt afterwards seems reasonable, for all that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 19, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
That was a lot to digest.

No surprise, but I like the one about the history of presidential candidate selection, and strangely enough, I approved of the ***** words.

Watched the Kasich and Cruz town halls hosted by Sean Hannity tonight, forgot the original air times.
He annoys me with his populist appeals on his show and as a host. Not because he's populist, but because he's uninformed, and he's misleading people....well, he is a FOX staffer.  "Why can't/shouldn't the guy with the most votes get the nomination?"

Why does he talk about "the rule of law" all of the time, and then think that the rules of the party don't matter?

Anyway, Cruz's take on it was that the selection process wasn't rocket science, and that anybody seriously seeking the highest office should, take the time to familiarize themselves with it.

Kasich explained that the delegates make the presidential candidate selection, and they aren't uninformed. They might reasonably decide to go with the candidate who would be a sure thing against Hillary in a general election, and secure the Supreme Court nominees, rather than risk the entire ticket - Congress, governors and state legislators, on a controversial candidate.
The founders established an electoral college to prevent the president from becoming a instrument in the tyranny of the majority inside the country.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 11:11:10 PM
The founders did LOTS of dumb things for dumb reasons - though I get that about the tyranny of the majority being a thing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 19, 2016, 11:17:01 PM
Quote
Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders battle for momentum in New York’s Democratic primary
Yahoo News
Hunter Walker  National Correspondent  April 19, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/zJGykE3rbHmzFujpzIUQIQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/15deb318c41341125c7847fc0c384e90)
Photo illustration: Yahoo News; photos: Mary Altaffer/AP, Seth Wenig/AP



BROOKLYN, N.Y. — Bill Clinton starkly laid out the stakes for New York’s Democratic presidential primary at an event in the Long Island suburb of Elmont earlier this month.

“Look. This election in so many ways psychologically is coming down to New York,” he said.

Indeed, while Hillary Clinton has racked up enough delegates in earlier primaries to put her on a path to victory, the race in New York remains crucial to her campaign. The delegate-rich state provides the possibility of a decisive win, but also the potential for humiliation if born-and-bred New York City rival Bernie Sanders keeps the margin close in Clinton’s adopted home.

Polls heading into the Empire State’s election on Tuesday show Clinton poised for another victory, but with Sen. Sanders having won eight of the last nine contests, his campaign has been on a hot streak. Sanders’ team argues that this momentum will help him overtake Clinton in the delegate count as the candidates hopscotch the country, leading other delegates to switch sides come convention time.

In an email sent to supporters last Wednesday, Clinton’s campaign manager, Robby Mook, laid out the importance of the New York primary.

“Did you see that last week, Bernie’s campaign manager said they will ‘100 percent, absolutely’ push for a contested convention in July — even if Hillary holds on to her big lead in the popular vote? There’s only one way to stop that from happening: build an insurmountable delegate lead. To do that, we need a strong result in New York one week from today,” Mook wrote.

It’s easy to see why New York is a prize for the Democratic hopefuls. With 291 delegates on the line, it is second only to California in terms of impact on the race. However, for Clinton, the state has added importance because she represented it in the U.S. Senate from 2001 until 2009 and has made it her home since she left the White House. Losing her adopted home state to Sanders, who despite his Brooklyn roots has been largely absent from New York for decades, would be an especially embarrassing defeat.

The  RealClearPolitics average of New York primary polls  shows Clinton with an 11.7-point lead over Sanders. However, the polls have tightened substantially. Just last month, Clinton had an advantage of more than 30 points in New York.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/e1GP32TR9JM01gkK.DZaMg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/4d5abb9b8a767033059ca81aa54679f0)
The Clintons sign in at their voting place in Chappaqua, N.Y., Tuesday, April 19, 2016. (Photo: Richard Drew/AP)


A Clinton campaign official who requested anonymity told Yahoo News on Monday that the campaign always expected that the primary in New York would be competitive.

The official also noted that the current state of the race means Sanders will  have to win more than 56 percent of the delegates  in New York, and every other state on the calendar, to overtake Clinton. Because of this, Sanders would need to do more than just outperform the polls to come out ahead: He needs to beat Clinton by several points to make a difference.

Both Clinton and Sanders have strengths in the state. As he has elsewhere, Sanders has drawn massive crowds and generated substantial enthusiasm among younger voters. Along with the youth vote, Sanders’ team is hoping to win among working-class voters. Robert Becker, Sanders’ deputy national field director, told Yahoo News that the campaign’s decision to have its first major New York City event in the hardscrabble South Bronx neighborhood on March 31 was a deliberate signal about whom Sanders hopes to make part of his base.

“We started out … in the South Bronx. That should have been a signal of where we’re going to make a play, the sort of lower end on the wage scale, make poverty an issue here, obviously, working class, the youth,” Becker said when asked where Sanders expected to draw support.

Sanders faces strong obstacles as he tries to win with that coalition. Clinton has repeatedly outperformed him with black voters, and recent polls indicate he is not on track to buck this trend in New York.

Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer, who is backing Clinton, identified some of the candidates’ advantages in a conversation with Yahoo News at a campaign event in Harlem earlier this month.

“I think it’s very much of a home state for her,” Brewer said of Clinton. “She was beloved in New York. Sen. Sanders hasn’t been in Brooklyn for a long time. So I think Hillary will win big. That said, in addition to being the borough president, I also teach at Hunter College and … a lot of my students, they like Bernie.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6DHnK7YjIcbtfeqaroOaMw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/384011e59f47ad31c6cb7ae7ea4041b5)
Bernie Sanders at a campaign rally in Prospect Park, in Brooklyn, N.Y., where he was born. (Photo: Mary Altaffer/AP)


A Quinnipiac University poll released on April 12 found that while Sanders has a 19-point lead among voters ages 18 to 44, he was trailing badly with African-American voters. Quinnipiac showed Clinton with a huge 37-point advantage among New York’s black voters, and the university’s pollsters largely attributed her overall lead to the African-American electorate.

“Black voters matter for Secretary Hillary Clinton in the New York Democratic primary,” Quinnipiac University Poll Assistant Director Maurice Carroll said in a statement announcing the results.

The rules in New York also favor Clinton. Sanders has, thus far, fared better in states with open primaries where independents are allowed to vote in the Democratic race. However, New York election law allows only registered Democrats to participate in the primary. Voters who wanted to join the party had to do so by last October, and new voters who wanted to register as Democrats needed to do so by March 25. Because of these rules, Sanders needs to win among people who were already members of the Democratic Party and were registered before he kicked off his campaign in the state.

In the spin room after the Democratic debate last Thursday, Sanders’ senior adviser Tad Devine acknowledged that the closed nature of New York’s primary is not ideal for his candidate. Devine also pointed out that Sanders’ strength with voters who are not party stalwarts may also be part of why he outperforms Clinton in some hypothetical general election polls. Those results are a major part of the Sanders campaign case that delegates should switch sides and back the Vermont senator.

“It is an obstacle. I mean, listen, we do better when independents can vote. … It’s just a much better system, and Bernie does much better with independents,” Devine said.

Clinton also has the backing of the vast majority of New York’s elected Democratic establishment. The state’s entire congressional delegation has endorsed her, along with Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio. At Sanders’ South Bronx rally, Assemblyman Luis Sepúlveda suggested he faced pressure to back Clinton.

“Several months ago, I was told, ‘You must endorse a particular candidate,” Sepúlveda recounted. “And I said, ‘Hold on, what’s the rush to judgment? Why don’t we find out about all the candidates? Let’s review the record.”

And many of the Democratic politicians backing Clinton have strong voter turnout organizations of their own, including Brewer, Rep. Charlie Rangel, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, and Rep. Hakeem Jeffries. Speaking with Yahoo News in the spin room after the debate, Jeffries said the organization in his Brooklyn district was working the streets for Clinton.

“We’re going to work as hard as we can over the next few days to turn the vote out,” Jeffries said.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/pZJoyD2vez9dux83RWqUBg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/5dce9c67d8864d9a87f00e3d347695a4)
Clinton campaigning at Junior’s restaurant in Brooklyn with Council Member Laurie Cumbo and Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, Saturday, April 9, 2016. (Photo: Seth Wenig/AP)


With Sanders’ momentum and the polls tightening, Clinton will need to capitalize on all of her strengths in the state. While she has begun building what some on her campaign have termed an “insurmountable” delegate lead, a narrow single-digit victory in her adopted home, with an army of allies by her side, will hardly dull Sanders’ momentum or stop his campaign from arguing that delegates should jump Clinton’s ship. In the spin room, Devine argued that Sanders doesn’t necessarily need a victory in New York to remain viable.

“Listen, I’m not going to say we’re going to win every contest between now and the middle of June. We’re going to win most of them. We’re going to win, by far, most of the delegates. We can make up the pledged delegate differential,” Devine said. “I believe when the voting’s over, he’ll be ahead in pledged delegates, he’ll be way ahead in the general election matchups, and I think the Democratic Party is going to … realize that Bernie Sanders, by far, is the strongest candidate for our party.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-battle-for-143153053.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-battle-for-143153053.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 20, 2016, 12:11:46 AM
Quote
Majority of Americans can't fathom supporting T rump or Clinton (or Cruz)
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  April 19, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/QqVDAFWcP63P0jBRGFUz7A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/67f3eb8efa5b9e8b577411361a4f82d6)
Donald T rump, Hillary Clinton, and Ted Cruz. (Photos: John Minchillo/AP; Dennis Van Tine/STAR MAX/IPx/AP; Lucy Nicholson/Reuters)



They may be the frontrunners, but a majority of Americans can’t see themselves supporting either Donald T rump or Hillary Clinton. Nor, for that matter, could they fathom supporting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz.

According to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal national poll, 68 percent of registered voters say they couldn’t see themselves supporting T rump, while 58 percent say the same about Clinton. Sixty-one percent of voters surveyed said they couldn’t see themselves backing Cruz.

Bernie Sanders and John Kasich fared slightly better, with a minority of voters saying they couldn’t see themselves supporting either the Vermont senator (48 percent) or the Ohio governor (47 percent).


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/fW6419KawgbLwhBY3ODJGw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjAwO2g9MzAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/0e6afb2ca6f33f12196d9e0b7c1eac66)


What’s more, 65 percent of all voters hold a negative view of T rump — making him “the most unpopular major presidential candidate in the history” of the NBC/WSJ poll. A majority of voters (56 percent) have an unfavorable view of Clinton — a figure that has risen five points in the last month — while 49 percent view Cruz the same way.

In terms of favorability, Sanders and Kasich scored net-positive favorability ratings, the NBC/WSJ poll found. Sanders is also the only candidate who more voters could see themselves supporting than could not.

“To top it off,” NBC senior political editor Mark Murray noted, “just 19 percent of all respondents give Clinton high marks for being honest and trustworthy, while only 12 percent give T rump high scores for having the right temperament.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/XlwADXP_P6ScZvBhf31FtQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NjAwO2g9MzAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/554997776cbcdfe1bc613ee766687fb0)


Nonetheless, a majority of likely voters in both parties say they’d be satisfied with them as their nominees.

Among Democrats, 73 percent say they’d be either very satisfied or somewhat satisfied with Clinton as the nominee, while 63 percent of Republicans said the same about T rump.

Still, more GOP voters say they’d be satisfied with Cruz (66 percent) than with T rump.

New York Rep. Peter King is not one of them.

“I hate Ted Cruz,” King said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Tuesday. “I think I’ll take cyanide if he got the nomination.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/T rump-clinton-cruz-majority-wont-support-143030280.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/T rump-clinton-cruz-majority-wont-support-143030280.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 20, 2016, 01:02:14 AM
Well, if Sanders needs 56% of the remaining delegates to secure the nomination, he's more likely to secure a nomination than The Donald. Of course, we'll have to see how things shake out tonight, because there's a lot at stake in terms of delegates.

Funny, that "Could not see self supporting candidate chart" ranked the final five the same way I did earlier in the thread, (I think )

[Sleezebag]
Cruz
Clinton
Sanders
Kasich

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on April 20, 2016, 01:58:10 AM
The founders did LOTS of dumb things for dumb reasons - though I get that about the tyranny of the majority being a thing.

The founders also realized they needed to get signatures from all the states. The electoral college helped with that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 20, 2016, 02:04:49 AM
That Ben Franklin was a smooth operator...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 20, 2016, 02:38:58 AM
He was also smooth with the women of France . . .
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 20, 2016, 02:40:36 AM
...And England...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 20, 2016, 02:52:50 AM
They called the popular vote for [Sleezebag] almost as soon as the polls closed.  The question will be does he get half of the vote and extra delegates.

Amusingly enough, he is trailing Kasich among Manhattan Republicans. If that holds, it's damning in a Cruz not getting endorsed by Senate coworkers kind of way. This is why we have trial by jury of our PEERS.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 20, 2016, 02:54:47 AM
It was not until the 1960's that the parties implemented primaries to allow voters a voice in the choice of candiates.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 20, 2016, 05:38:13 AM
Popular vote [Sleezebag] 60%, Kasich 25%, Cruz 15%
[Sleezebag] should take the lion's share of the delegates, Kasich should win 3 to 6 delegates, Cruz was shut out entirely.

Clinton 58% Sanders 42%
Delegates- I can't find anything, there are 247 at stake, I could presume that this is one of those proportional delegate distribution states on the Democratic side.

There's a report that Sanders skipped out on his press entourage and headed for Vermont, leaving them behind on the runway in State College, PA.  This could mean he's going home to soul search, or that he had an emergency at home. I hope he and his family are okay.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 21, 2016, 01:28:53 AM
For Rusty:

Quote
New Yorkers Cower As Clinton Victory Speech Reverberates Across Entire State
The Onion  April 20, 2016


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5326/2/16x9/800.jpg)



ALBANY, NY—Covering their ears as the thunderous sound violently shook buildings and shattered glass windows, New York residents reportedly cowered in shock and fear Tuesday night as Hillary Clinton’s primary election victory speech reverberated across the entire state. “Thank you all so much—today, you proved once again there’s no place like home,” said the Democratic presidential candidate, as her deafening address, which seemed to come from all sides at once, boomed across the landscape, setting off car alarms and forcing drivers to pull over to the side of the road in all 62 New York counties. “The race for the nomination is in the home stretch, and victory is in sight. You have carried us every step of the way with passion and determination. I am grateful to every one of you.” At press time, sources in the upcoming primary states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania reported witnessing ripples in their water glasses as the opening line of Clinton’s stump speech swelled in the distance.
http://www.theonion.com/article/new-yorkers-cower-clinton-victory-speech-reverbera-52784 (http://www.theonion.com/article/new-yorkers-cower-clinton-victory-speech-reverbera-52784)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dio on April 21, 2016, 02:15:27 AM
For Rusty:

Quote
New Yorkers Cower As Clinton Victory Speech Reverberates Across Entire State
The Onion  April 20, 2016


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5326/2/16x9/800.jpg)



ALBANY, NY—Covering their ears as the thunderous sound violently shook buildings and shattered glass windows, New York residents reportedly cowered in shock and fear Tuesday night as Hillary Clinton’s primary election victory speech reverberated across the entire state. “Thank you all so much—today, you proved once again there’s no place like home,” said the Democratic presidential candidate, as her deafening address, which seemed to come from all sides at once, boomed across the landscape, setting off car alarms and forcing drivers to pull over to the side of the road in all 62 New York counties. “The race for the nomination is in the home stretch, and victory is in sight. You have carried us every step of the way with passion and determination. I am grateful to every one of you.” At press time, sources in the upcoming primary states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania reported witnessing ripples in their water glasses as the opening line of Clinton’s stump speech swelled in the distance.
http://www.theonion.com/article/new-yorkers-cower-clinton-victory-speech-reverbera-52784 (http://www.theonion.com/article/new-yorkers-cower-clinton-victory-speech-reverbera-52784)

 :D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 21, 2016, 03:47:17 AM
That was hilarious.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 22, 2016, 02:52:55 AM
I'm wondering if the professional handlers are going to help or hurt The Donald.

He's acting more and more like a serious candidate. For example, today he said that he would make exceptions for abortion in the case of rape, incest, or life of the mother, which last I heard, was where most of America viewed the issue.

He also said he was fine with people using the bathroom in which they felt comfortable, and they were welcome to do so at [Sleezebag] Tower.

For a while he stopped the name calling.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 22, 2016, 02:54:41 AM
It's plumb confusing, since he's going to find a reason to quit...  Why bother?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 22, 2016, 03:36:13 AM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROBTDSK46aU&feature=youtu.be&list=PLF396D3CEF0169A35#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on April 22, 2016, 02:05:13 PM
since he's going to find a reason to quit...  Why bother?

I thought that for a long time as well, but he's actually opened his wallet the last few weeks, so I'm not so sure.  While he was not having to spend, and for a while actually MAKING money, it made sense for him to just keep going for publicity sake.  But, he's dumped millions of his own cash in the last few weeks.  Looking like he's serious. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 22, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
You're not wrong - I wonder if he's decided he doesn't need control of his business, and decided to be President as retirement project...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 22, 2016, 06:35:09 PM
I never dared to dream he would go away on his own.

It's more like I have a persistent vision of a fascist America, with intermittent hope that Cruz can stop him...and then I realize it's merely the difference between a populist fascist and a theocratic fascist, and it makes me seriously consider the Oligarchy alternative.

Which leads to the entrenchment question- If we choose one of the above, which form of government are we least likely to get stuck with?  Defying and rejecting both the Clintons and Bushes would have been a turning point away from Oligarchy, but if we don't, we're boiler plating the bureaucracy old boy network. Sure, there's bound to be blowback to whoever ascends the thrown, but all of the Obama hate didn't stop his re-election.

All the next president has to do is choose a war. Then, they can seize more power and stifle dissent.

This fork in the road is the devil's own trident.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 22, 2016, 06:41:49 PM
Well-put.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 25, 2016, 03:19:47 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders: ‘We intend to take the fight all the way to California’ — but not necessarily the convention
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  April 24, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/U65eWPmoDpe2DFHjkK485Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://36.media.tumblr.com/c5d36a2127b5c4f9d0fd45fd13012322/tumblr_inline_o65f3605Uc1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders speaks at a rally in Providence, R.I., on Sunday. (Photo: Steven Senne/AP)



Following Bernie Sanders’ loss to Hillary Clinton in the New York primary last week, his campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, vowed that the Vermont senator would take his fight to the Democratic convention in Philadelphia in July.

But on Sunday, Sanders would only look as far ahead as California’s Democratic primary on June 7.

“We intend to take the fight all the way to California,” Sanders said on ABC’s “This Week With George Stephanopoulos,” “so people throughout this country have a right to determine who they want as president and what kind of agenda they want for the Democratic Party.”

Sanders repeated the phrase when asked if he would support Clinton as the Democratic nominee in the fall, just as she supported Barack Obama in 2008.

“We’re not giving this thing up,” the self-described democratic socialist said. “We’re going all the way to California. But if she is the nominee, I would hope that she puts together the strongest progressive agenda that says, ‘Yes, we’re going to stand with the working families in this country. We are prepared to take on the fossil fuel industry and the drug companies Wall Street and the billionaire class.’ And if she has a candidate for vice president who is prepared to carry that mantle, prepared to engage in that fight, I think that would be a very good thing for her campaign.”

On NBC’s “Meet The Press,” Sanders focused on the present.

“We are in this race. We are not writing our obituary. We’re in this race to California,” he said, before letting a tense change slip. “And we’re proud of the campaign we ran.”

On CBS’ “Face The Nation,” Sanders said it wouldn’t be fair to the Golden State to drop out before it got to vote.

“You can’t say to largest state in this country, ‘California, you can’t determine who the nominee will be or what the agenda will be,’” he said.

On CNN’s “State of the Union,” Sanders pointed to its 475 delegates as his “narrow path” to winning the Democratic nomination.

“I’m not going to tell you that it’s easy,” Sanders said. “What polls seem to be showing is that many of the states yet to come — including California, our largest state — we have a real shot to win. And I think, also, there are a lot of delegates out there who are looking at the general matchup, and what they’re seeing in polls is that Bernie Sanders is running a lot stronger against Donald T rump than is Hillary Clinton, because we can appeal to a lot of independents and people, not just the Democrats.”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcCfarlqEs#)
Quote
“So, I think we do have a path to victory,” Sanders continued. “I think we have come a very, very long way in the last year, and we’re going to fight for every last vote until the California and the D.C. primary.”

The Washington, D.C., primary is scheduled for June 14.

In an interview with Yahoo News last week, Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook predicted she’ll have the magic number of delegates needed to secure the nomination by that date.

“I’m not concerned with the primary going until the end,” he said. “I think Hillary, by the end of the primary, by the time the states on June 7 and June 14 vote, it’ll be clear who the nominee is gonna be.”
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 25, 2016, 03:24:42 AM
I never dared to dream he would go away on his own.

It's more like I have a persistent vision of a fascist America, with intermittent hope that Cruz can stop him...and then I realize it's merely the difference between a populist fascist and a theocratic fascist, and it makes me seriously consider the Oligarchy alternative.

Which leads to the entrenchment question- If we choose one of the above, which form of government are we least likely to get stuck with?  Defying and rejecting both the Clintons and Bushes would have been a turning point away from Oligarchy, but if we don't, we're boiler plating the bureaucracy old boy network. Sure, there's bound to be blowback to whoever ascends the thrown, but all of the Obama hate didn't stop his re-election.

All the next president has to do is choose a war. Then, they can seize more power and stifle dissent.

This fork in the road is the devil's own trident.
It strikes me to point out that Cruz is part of an organized movement - the Hog-Calling Contest at least would have to develop successors.  The tea party literally has a million of them already.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 27, 2016, 05:28:07 PM
Yesterday I got to spend a few extra hours on Interstate 80 on account of an accident, which resulted in more exposure to news channels trying to know more about what was going on with the accident and political campaigns.

I used the f-word twice, which approximately equals my usage in the previous decade. Utter frustration with the political realities, and resignation to doom. The commentators don't seem to recognize simple concepts such as the differences between democracies and democratic republics, or majorities and pluralities. Or differences between rules, laws, and The Constitution.

With them misleading the public, it's no wonder we are where we are. Fornicated. Well, we get what we deserve because we choose who informs us and governs us.  We get to have a reality tv star president and a Max Headroom government. The press will regret their ways when The Trumpident "loosens up libel laws".

I thought Ohio and Wisconsin were examples of purple state sentiment, but apparently they are outliers.


I think that Hillary is blowing her opportunity to incorporate the Bernie Bunch. She could say Bernie was right, and so were the people who supported him. There should always be a place for youthful idealism in politics, because we can always strive to do better, and the Democratic Party should be it's voice, rather than the voice of investment banks. To that end I'm returning the money I took from Goldman Sachs, and I pledge to work to reverse Citizen's United by both Supreme Court nominations and by Constitutional Amendment. Because in the long run, without doing so the voice of the people will not prevail against the corrupting commercial interests.

That would validate them without promising free ponies. I don't think the republicans want to defend Super Pacs this election cycle. Not the debate they want.

Whatever, I figure Hillary isn't ready for [Sleezebag]. She's too busy alienating Sanders supporters instead of hugging them.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 27, 2016, 06:15:36 PM
I've said it a million times before and I'll say it a million times again: the biggest problem with Fox News is that it's a terrible excuse for journalism even by TV news standards, and all TV news sucks to begin with.  However, having said that, the open bias/slant is a problem beyond even grasping in magnitude - it was the beginning of the Right Reality Bubble, as typified by the imaginary Obama and Mitt Romney's advisors managing to not know they were going to lose/Karl Rove's astonishment at same.

The left, being the way the left is since Reagan, has only followed suit in a one-buttock fashion; NPR can at least claim to have been dedicated to liberal bias completely and before anyone else major, but is only radio - MSNBC has gone sorta halfway, a major error in a channel that wins for smart, thoughtful talking-head analysis -despite Al Sharpton- but compromised by open bias without even the courage to commit, typical of the modern mainstream left.

Which brings us to Mrs. Clinton - as my very conservative friend Rusty says, commit, darnit.  Embrace the liberal Sanders stuff, if that's what you privately believe in.  The sitting President is about as centrist as they come, and you know what the right imagines about him, so nothing to lose going left.  Even be the moderate you've always appeared to be, if that's what's in your heart - but commit.

And if you go left, for God's sake, recognize that central to Sander's appeal is something we've not seen on the left almost since I was potty-trained; the man has some dang fight in him.  We need a leader.  We need a leader who isn't the [girldog] of the neofascists that have run rampant for the last 30+ years, and gotten bolder and bolder and more brazen and un-American - FIGHT!  Roll up you sleeves, clench your fists, grow a pair and fight.  Whatever else Sanders would do right or wrong, were he to get in, you know he wouldn't roll over and pull an Obama on us, as you've done in the past as a Senator.  A lot of people LOVE that in Sanders - Democrats have a vast hunger for a fighter for once, even if they don't know it.

FIGHT!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 28, 2016, 08:38:37 PM
I'm seeing headlines that Cruz announced Carly Fiorina as his running mate. What? -you needed a woman they'd say was only picked for being a woman against Mrs. Clinton?  Did Sarah Palin chicken out or ask for too much money?  Was Michelle Bachman off her med this week and shot at the operatives who approached her to ask?  Did Elizabeth Dole drop dead and not tell anyone?

There are Republican women running around who are not lightweights with so many insurmountable negatives, Senator...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on April 28, 2016, 09:58:11 PM
I'm just seeing the "Lucifer in the flesh" headlines. 

Think I'd prefer Lucifer. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 28, 2016, 10:10:10 PM
Has he announced for President?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on April 28, 2016, 10:18:46 PM
I don't have him on speed dial anymore or I'd ask. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 29, 2016, 03:35:16 AM
I'm seeing headlines that Cruz announced Carly Fiorina as his running mate. What? -you needed a woman they'd say was only picked for being a woman against Mrs. Clinton?  Did Sarah Palin chicken out or ask for too much money?  Was Michelle Bachman off her med this week and shot at the operatives who approached her to ask?  Did Elizabeth Dole drop dead and not tell anyone?

There are Republican women running around who are not lightweights with so many insurmountable negatives, Senator...

1) Cruz is invoking Saint Reagan, who announced PA Senator Richard Schweiker  as his running mate when he was trailing sitting President Ford in 1976. It was seen as a way to soften his right-wing wacko magnet image.

2) Carly is an articulate debater, and she is what [Sleezebag] can't stand- a strong woman. It's only a matter of time until [Sleezebag] unloads on her again, and more people see the True [Sleezebag].

3) Carly has done what none of the final 5 ever have- win a state-wide California Republican primary. No small feat.

4) They have a lot in common as rabid pro-Israel advocates, surviving family members  of  narcotic deaths, and being disliked and unendorsed by their peers.


So I can see where he's coming from. But like a lot of things to stop [Sleezebag], it probably should have been done about the time it turned into a 3 man race. When your only path to the nomination is an open convention, better to have an open VP slot for horse trading.

As a general election candidate, Carly lost her senate race, and CA is a blue state, so she brings nothing to the electoral college.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 29, 2016, 03:44:16 AM
Still a weak choice - and I thought the same thing about horse-trading at the convention.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 29, 2016, 03:15:27 PM
I'm just seeing the "Lucifer in the flesh" headlines. 

Think I'd prefer Lucifer.
You know, I had seen that headline, but I had to see it again to get the reference.  Like a lot of Democrats, I'm rather fond of Boner now that he's gone.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 29, 2016, 07:33:44 PM
Quote
Boehner calls Cruz 'Lucifer in the flesh'
CNN
By Tom LoBianco and Deirdre Walsh, Updated 8:00 AM ET, Fri April 29, 2016


Story highlights
Boehner said he was "texting buddies" with Donald T rump
He is also friends with former House colleague and fellow Ohioan John Kasich


(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150925094720-04-boehner-0925-exlarge-169.jpg)



Washington (CNN) — Former House Speaker John Boehner called Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz "Lucifer in the flesh," in a withering interview at Stanford University published Thursday.

In it, he repeated many of the same attacks he used last month while calling on his successor, Paul Ryan, to seek the Republican nomination.

"Lucifer in the flesh," Boehner told Stanford's David Kennedy, a history professor emeritus, according to the Stanford Daily. "I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life."

Boehner also said he was "texting buddies" with GOP presidential front-runner Donald T rump and friends with former House colleague and fellow Ohioan, John Kasich.

The account in the student newspaper is accurate, a source close to Boehner confirmed Thursday.

Cruz tweeted a response Thursday morning: "Tell me again who will stand up to Washington? T rump, who's Boehner's "texting and golfing buddy," or Carly & me?"

Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/723930604077649921/8HI8hmJb_bigger.jpg)  Ted Cruz
‏                       @tedcruz

Tell me again who will stand up to Washington?  T rump, who's Boehner's "texting and golfing buddy," or Carly & me?
Retweets 1,895  Likes 2,143     7:23 AM - 28 Apr 2016


He later told reporters Boehner "allowed his inner T rump to come out."

"The interesting thing is I've never worked with John Boehner, I don't know the man," Cruz said. "Indeed, during the government shut down, I reached out to John Boehner, to work with him to get something meaningful done. He said, 'I have no interest in talking to you.' "

Boehner and Cruz clashed over the government shutdown and Obamacare fights from the time Cruz took his Senate seat in 2013 to when Boehner stepped down last fall.

Cruz continued: "When John Boehner calls me Lucifer, he is directing it at you. What Boehner is angry at is me standing with the American people."

Cruz has been arguing for months now that he is the candidate best positioned to unify the Republican Party ahead of the November battle. But his support among his many Senate and House colleagues has been tepid at best -- with a handful of senators only recently endorsing him.

Boehner's relationship with Cruz pre-dates their time in Congress together. Cruz was hired as part of Boehner's legal team, after he sued a Democratic congressman, Rep. Jim McDermott of Washington state, for breaking wiretapping laws back in 1998.

The Ohio congressman was caught on a telephone phone call talking to then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich about ethics allegations against the speaker, and McDermott released the tape to the press. After years of litigation of arguing the release of the call by McDermott was unlawful, Boehner prevailed in the case.

Boehner also compared Cruz to the devil last month in a talk before financial industry lobbyists and executives in Florida. In the same March speech he urged Ryan to seek the nomination.

"If we don't have a nominee who can win on the first ballot, I'm for none of the above," Boehner said at the Futures Industry Association conference. "They all had a chance to win. None of them won. So I'm for none of the above. I'm for Paul Ryan to be our nominee."

Ryan has adamantly ruled out accepting the Republican nomination. He also said Thursday he has "a much better relationship with Sen. Cruz" than Boehner.

"Look, my job is to help unify our party. It's to take all pieces of the conservative movement in the Republican Party and help stitch them together, especially after a primary," Ryan said at a news conference. "I have a very good relationship with both of these men and I'm going to keep it that way."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/john-boehner-ted-cruz-lucifer-stanford/index.html?sr=fbCNN042816john-boehner-ted-cruz-lucifer-stanford0259PMVODtopLink&linkId=23952079 (http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/john-boehner-ted-cruz-lucifer-stanford/index.html?sr=fbCNN042816john-boehner-ted-cruz-lucifer-stanford0259PMVODtopLink&linkId=23952079)

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc0ySOalpg8#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 01, 2016, 02:11:48 AM
You make that Carly is a weak choice thing sound like Cruz could have anybody he asked...

Sure, when hand if he's the nominee. Then it's a command. Before that it's an "I need your help" favor. Lots of Republicans blame Cruz and his "Let's shut down the government and force Obama to repeal Obamacare" scheme for making America mad at Washington and creating [Sleezebag] in the first place.
Carly is on of the few to endorse Cruz. Cruz has a small patch to pick from. 

***

Ryan is clearly not interested in running for president. He has had a taste of it. Enough to know whether he wants it or not. As he has clearly and repeatedly stated, if he wanted to run for president, he already would have.

True, he said he didn't want to be Speaker, but even when they dove out Boener, and the guy the Tea Party wanted for the job turned out to be a bust, and Ryan was the only Congressman the majority could agree upon, Ryan only agreed to take the job if they met his terms.

Speaker is too much of a job to do and run for president at the same time. Likewise, it's the speaker's duty to chair the convention. I don't think an ethical guy can do an honest job of chairing an open convention and fight for the nomination at the same time. It's a major conflict of interest, like trying to be both judge and prosecutor at a trial.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 01, 2016, 02:22:21 AM
Okay, point - and she's not really all that much of a lightweight, though the crack about insurmountable negatives stands.  I wondered just last night if the thinking was that she could help deliver California or something - but she's to Silicon Valley as he is to the Senate, and I doubt she'll deliver anything; too easy to make hay out of what the people she's worked around think of her...

---
Echo chamber or not, I think between my background in mass communications and yours as a local campaign worker, and all we agree and disagree on, combine to make us a fairly insightful political thinker, like two lobes of a brain that's got a wide POV and is smart at it.

---

BTW - howdy, stranger!  It's sucked without you.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 01, 2016, 02:49:08 AM
It's good to be back. She's supposed to help with California, but frankly, if Cruz can't win in the outlier bible belt state of Indiana, it's over.

Then [Sleezebag] will be what Bill Clinton was when he first won- The bringer of "change".

Hillary is as status quo as they come.


We took my parents on a little trip as a combination birthday/mother's& father's day present. The highpoint was seeing Alton Brown's Eat Your Science tour. The cool thing about Brown is that he's knowledgeable, informative, funny, and when things go sidewise he can improvise. Beyond that he can make an adult joke without using bad language, ( people bring their families to see him) he simply makes some quip about kids being so much fun to make. Even though the stated purpose of the tour is so he can do stuff he's not allowed to do on TV.

I'm at my parent's house now again  with both a good internet connection and my lap top. I'll be doing more work on the conclusion of my fan fiction. I think I finally know what needs to be said. I just have to figure out how to bring it out naturally in conversation, and who says what. I'll try to post some more scenes tonight , again, without going back and updating  the continuity rewrites in the portions already posted. Don't have Man-Kzin III yet, maybe it'll arrive Monday.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 01, 2016, 02:52:51 AM


---
Echo chamber or not, I think between my background in mass communications and yours as a local campaign worker, and all we agree and disagree on, combine to make us a fairly insightful political thinker, like two lobes of a brain that's got a wide POV and is smart at it.

---


I guess we are.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 01, 2016, 02:54:24 AM
Don't have Man-Kzin III yet, maybe it'll arrive Monday.
Well, it's not canon, so don't let it hold you up - however it is good, despite the second blatant ripoff of a Bogart movie in a row in a Pournelle contribution...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 02, 2016, 04:07:06 AM
Quote
Bernie Sanders begins making case to Hillary Clinton’s superdelegates
Yahoo News
Dylan Stableford  Senior editor  May 01, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/fLfMUBf_QN41Yg0aerJTdA--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://67.media.tumblr.com/5ba809a2ed57f20c9d0401f6e3a5d39f/tumblr_inline_o6il6kYTXj1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
Bernie Sanders at a news conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on Sunday. (Photo: Carlos Barria/Reuters)



Bernie Sanders held a press conference in Washington, D.C., on Sunday to mark one year since launching his presidential bid, vowing to take his fight for the Democratic nomination to the superdelegates currently supporting frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

“It’s a tough road to climb,” Sanders told reporters at the National Press Club, but “not an impossible” one.

In a scene reminiscent of the sparsely attended, April 30, 2015, press conference on Capitol Hill where he formally announced his run, the Vermont senator said that those superdelegates supporting the former secretary of state ought to rethink their pledge — particularly in states where he won handily.

“I would ask the superdelegates to respect the wishes of the people of those states,” Sanders said.

Overall, Clinton has the support of 520 superdelegates, while Sanders, the self-described democratic socialist, has “all of 39” — despite winning 17 primaries and caucuses “in every part of the country.”

Sanders pointed out that although he won Washington state’s Democratic caucuses by 46 points (73 percent to 27 percent) and 25 of the state’s 36 pledged delegates, Clinton has the support of 10 of Washington’s Democratic unpledged superdelegates.

“We have zero,” he said. “Obviously, we are taking on the entire Democratic establishment.”


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/LvDyuLf14A3oAhKBj5SScQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MTI4MDtoPTk2MDtpbD1wbGFuZQ--/http://36.media.tumblr.com/d5f564d4b704f3bc4a62ca8979148f0f/tumblr_inline_o6idkmsW2b1tdoo3z_1280.jpg)
Sanders on Capitol Hill after announcing his run for president, April 30, 2015. (Photo: Jacquelyn Martin/AP)


Clinton’s lead over Sanders in pledged delegates is 1,645 to 1,318.

“Let’s be clear,” Sanders said. “It is virtually impossible for Secretary Clinton to reach the majority of convention delegates by June 14 — the end of the primary season — with pledged delegates alone. She will need superdelegates to take her over the top at the convention in Philadelphia. In other words, it will be a contested convention.”

He urged the superdelegates to consider which Democratic candidate would have the best chance of winning in November. And “based on virtually every national and state poll over the last several months,” Sanders said, that would be him.

“I would be the stronger candidate,” he said, noting that it “would be a disaster if Donald T rump or some other rightwing Republican were to become president of the United States.”

Sanders also said superdelegates should consider the youthful enthusiasm he’s injected into the Democratic Party, drawing a total of more than 1.1 million people to his rallies and a record 7.4 million individual campaign contributions — statistics that Sanders says prove his nomination would not only secure the White House but also help Democrats win down-ballot races in the fall.

“The energy and excitement in this campaign is with the work we have done,” Sanders said. “This is an important reality that superdelegates cannot ignore.”

Which is why the Sanders campaign is prepared to take its case — and its message — through the presidential primaries in California and Washington, D.C., in June and to the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia in July.

Sanders began the press conference noting that last year on this date, he trailed Clinton by at least 60 points in national polls. Now, the Vermont senator said, he’s nearly pulled even with Clinton in many of those same polls — even leading her in some.

“When we started, we were considered to be a fringe candidacy,” he said. “That was then, today is today.”

And while Sanders reiterated to reporters that he would do everything in his power to stop T rump from becoming president if he ultimately loses the Democratic nomination, he was in no mood to talk about his campaign’s “legacy.”

“I hope my legacy will be that I was a very good president,” Sanders said.

At that 2015 press conference to announce the launch of his presidential campaign, Sanders was even more bullish.

“We’re in this race to win,” he said.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-campaign-launch-anniversary-200031589.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-campaign-launch-anniversary-200031589.html)



Oh for Christ's sake - they ran a picture of his back.  The sheepish/weak/old-looking off-center shot of his front they led with is only good in comparison to the mouth-open-pointing ranty-looking shots they usually puke out, at that.  They simply do not DO this crap to Mrs. Clinton...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 04, 2016, 06:32:54 PM
Wellllll......

Now what? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 04, 2016, 07:22:54 PM
?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 05, 2016, 03:48:26 AM
Now?

Bernie isn't ready to go away quietly.

Hillary should read what I said about an olive branch to Bernie and his people. She could still make enemies on the left rather easily.  The old "I'm Hillary, I've paid my dues and you all owe me. This is my turn!" isn't exactly endearing.

Billary signed NAFTA. [Sleezebag] will be sure to remind everyone. Billary is running as status quo, and there's a lot of passionate discontent with the government, and [Sleezebag] knows how to play that. I expect [Sleezebag] will continue suck up free air time.

I think she's misunderestimating him.

So with two such despised candidates to represent the major parties, it remains an excellent year for a 3rd party to get traction.

Maybe Cruz and Romney are still thinking about 3rd party move with the Constitutional Party.

Maybe those who feel The Bern will Go Green when Hillary blows it and doesn't validate them.

Maybe now that the Republicans are undergoing a hostile [Sleezebag]-over, The Libertarians will make some permanent gains.




The only thing I am sure of is that the more I hear Donald and Hillary talk, the angrier I'll become with them both.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 06, 2016, 01:37:13 AM
We remain in uncharted territory.

The living Republican presidents have said they won't be supporting [Sleezebag]. Romney will skip the convention. McCain said he will support the nominee, but he also said [Sleezebag] will make it difficult , if not impossible for him to be re-elected. Bob Dole won't endorse [Sleezebag], said he will attend the convention but remain in the background. Speaker Ryan has more or less said that [Sleezebag] needs to prove himself as a Republican and a conservative to gain his support.

The closest comparison I can think of is when Theodore Roosevelt and others revolted against Taft to form the Bull Moose party.

A radio commentator guesting on CNN today said that this year was supposed to be about discontent and change, and instead we have an election between Hillary and her donor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on May 06, 2016, 01:58:49 AM
When I think about past US presidents, they always seem moderately presidential. But I recognize the bias inherent in my perspective. Has there ever been a US president who was, during his campaign, thought of as being as ridiculous as [Sleezebag] is now?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 06, 2016, 02:25:47 AM
...I don't think anyone was ever as widely held in contempt - but half the presidents of the 1800s were utter, hopeless, huge, mediocrities, everybody has haters, and Mrs. Clinton has a similar problem - just not as much/intense on her "own side" - but I know Bernieheads online who get very upset at the prospect of voting for her to block T rump...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 06, 2016, 03:41:22 AM
Uh. I'm looking into it, but I don't know that anybody has actually won.


George Wallace, like [Sleezebag] was certainly controversial, but never elected president.

Herbert Hoover, like [Sleezebag], ran for president on his  business experience. He was popular when he ran, not so much as president.

Millard Fillmore was the last Whig, completing Zach Taylor's term when he died. From Wikipedia-

[When the Whig Party broke up in 1854–56, Fillmore refused to join the Republican Party. Other conservative Whigs joined the American Party, the political arm of the anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic "Know-Nothing" movement, though Fillmore did not join the American Party.[2] While out of the country, Fillmore was nominated by the American Party candidate for President in 1856, but finished third in the election, surpassed by the Republican Party candidate.]





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 06, 2016, 04:24:45 AM
-Ben Harrison lost the popular vote, Franklin Pierce was just plain an incompetent president, Andy Jackson was too hot-blooded/pugnacious and colorful for real politics/office at all, etc...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 06, 2016, 04:54:08 AM
 Yeah. I was hoping for the [Sleezebag] as George Wallace scenario.

Things have changed. Apparently, in the post-journalism era a celebrity can run for president on free publicity, and get a party nomination by ridiculing the leadership, even though they are clueless about political organization. I guess it's not a great leap from celebrity endorsements to celebrity candidates.
Maybe the Democrats will run Bruce Springsteen next time.

As in any hostile takeover, individuals have to decide if they're going to continue to work for the new boss. I wonder if the New Boss understands that most of the work is done by a network of experienced volunteers who know the voters in their party & precinct and most of them never donated to Hillary Clinton?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 06, 2016, 02:51:12 PM
It has begun.
Quote
Mary Matalin: Political Pundit and Republican Strategist Changes Party Registration to Libertarian

Matalin told Bloomberg Politics Thursday she was a Republican in the "Jeffersonian, Madisonian sense," adding, "The Libertarian Party represents those constitutional principles that I agree with."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 07, 2016, 01:24:18 AM
Cool. I heard her on CNN yesterday, but I wasn't sure if she had changed parties or was just leaning that way.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2016, 01:54:59 AM
As I have been saying -as far back as the end of the last presidential cycle, actually- the party is deeply MPD; it's about time the small-gov wing figured out what you did 40 years ago.  I bet it doesn't take a lot of smart influential players like her doing same to start a stampede...

I always thought she was one of those righties with a lot of sense, worth listening too...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 07, 2016, 02:31:49 AM
My favorite bit today was the a post my wife read to me from one of her groups. IIRC-

I'm a Bernie supporter, but I could be persuaded to vote for Hillary, because I'm a single issue voter. I don't want anyone to break the seventh seal on the scroll and unleash the Apocalypse.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2016, 02:36:56 AM
;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2016, 05:08:00 PM
Quote
Mary Matalin, Republican Strategist and Pundit, Changes Political Parties
The New York Times
By CHRISTOPHER MELE  MAY 5, 2016



Mary Matalin, a high-profile political pundit and veteran strategist for the Republican Party, changed her party registration to Libertarian from Republican, she said on Thursday.

But in an interview with Bloomberg Politics, which reported on the switch, she emphasized that her decision was not connected to Donald J. T rump’s being the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

She described herself as a voter as a “provisional T rump” and a “never Hillary,” referring to the leading Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

Pressed on Thursday about why she switched political parties, Ms. Matalin told Bloomberg Politics that she was a Republican in the “Jeffersonian, Madisonian sense.”

“I’m not a Republican for a party or a person,” she continued. “The Libertarian Party represents those constitutional principles that I agree with.”


(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/05/06/us/06xp-matalin_web1/06xp-matalin_web1-blog427.jpg)
Mary Matalin

 
Of Mr. T rump, Ms. Matalin said she liked his attitude and what she knew of his economic policies, adding: “I just don’t know enough. I think not only could he win, I think he could win in a landslide if he would stop his high school boy antics with women; otherwise he’s going to force suburban women to Hillary.”

She said conservatives were angry after two successive presidential elections in which they lost and with what appeared to be no response from Washington as the party was “falling apart.”

Ms. Matalin is probably best known for her appearances on television as a staunch defender of Republican policies. For more than a decade, she appeared on CNN with her husband, James Carville, a Democratic strategist.

The husband-and-wife team were two of the network’s best-known contributors. For years they were co-hosts of “Crossfire.” After it was canceled, they were regulars on “The Situation Room” and election night specials. They announced in early 2013 that they were parting ways with CNN.

Ms. Matalin was President George Bush’s campaign director and was assistant to President George W. Bush. She was also assistant and counselor to Vice President Dick Cheney, according to her website.

She worked at the Republican National Committee in 1984 as national voter contact director for the Reagan-Bush campaign and later as chief of staff to the chairman of the committee.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/us/mary-matalin-republican-strategist-and-pundit-changes-political-parties.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/us/mary-matalin-republican-strategist-and-pundit-changes-political-parties.html?_r=0)



Reading between the lines, this sounds more like a long-term business decision than something sincere -she's a Reagan-Cheney republican, the ones who started the problem, not a libertarian- like someone had read the tea-leaves the same way I have, she herself or some actual Libertarian she respects persuaded her of the opportunity.

Prediction:  Rand Paul, if his dad doesn't come out of retirement, is obviously going to be sniffing around running for next time within two years, as an actual Libertarian, and eventually, Matalin will turn out to be his campaign manager.  Look for better-than-half-hearted efforts to appeal to left-libertarians; it's the only way to start out trying to be a real party that's competitive.

(Also if all this exodus-and-turn-it-into-a-real-party stuff comes off, the upper-level Libertarians-all-along are going to be SO vociferously miserable when they're pushed out in their own party as the flock of inept losers they, alas, are - and any policies to appeal to liberals that actually work at doing it and take root do so.)


Point the second - ZOMG, her hair!  Why? Why!?!?  Stinks of aging desperately, much like the stench of dorky failed masculinity on the Libertarian leadership she'll personally take part in getting rid of.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 07, 2016, 06:05:34 PM
Yeah, her hair, alas!
Still better than hubbie's.

and it does sound like a business decision.
------------------
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3860581-155/libertarian-candidate-says-disaffected-voters-offer?page=1 (http://www.sltrib.com/home/3860581-155/libertarian-candidate-says-disaffected-voters-offer?page=1)

Libertarian candidate says disaffected voters offer opening for third party

By ROBERT GEHRKE |  The Salt Lake Tribune   

First Published May 05 2016 05:42PM    •    Last Updated May 05 2016 10:39 pm




After Ted Cruz dropped out of the Republican race for the White House, there was a sudden spike in online searches for the term "Libertarian Party."

It's something Gary Johnson, the party's 2012 nominee and a candidate again this year, said he has seen over and over on the ground, as Republicans cringing at the prospects of a Donald [Sleezebag] candidacy or Sen. Bernie Sanders loyalists disenchanted with Hillary Clinton approach him looking for any other option.

"That's all I encounter," Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico, said by phone from a campaign stop in Ohio. He maintains his campaign headquarters in Salt Lake City.
   
The distaste for both of the presumptive major-party nominees, combined with the fact that the Libertarian Party will be on the ballot in each state this year — it missed out on Michigan and Oklahoma four years ago — could make 2016 a breakthrough year for the party, he said.

"I predicted that [Sleezebag] was going to be the nominee for a long time. I just felt like that was going to happen, and, of course, it did happen yesterday," Johnson said. "Too bad for America, but if you were the only third-party candidate on the ballot in all 50 states, it would probably bode pretty well."

Johnson said [Sleezebag] is pitching himself as a successful businessman who will bring that experience to government, which Johnson said is similar to his message when he ran for governor of New Mexico in 1994.

"But when you start going down the litany of [[Sleezebag]'s issues], 'I'm going to deport 11 million immigrants, I'm going to build a wall along the border, I'm going to keep Muslims from coming into the country, I'm going to kill the families of militants,' " Johnson said, "There's nothing about what he's saying that is small government. There's no consistency, and it's just plain crazy."

Former state Rep. Holly Richardson is one of those steadfast Utah Republicans who is shopping for a new Election Day option.

On Thursday, during The Salt Lake Tribune's online interview program Trib Talk, she accused [Sleezebag] of "fascism," called him a "misogynist" and said his rhetoric and policies are "horrid." She's not a big fan of Clinton, either.

"I'm one of the ones who can't vote for either one at this point, so I'm looking for a third option," Richardson said, though she did not mention the Libertarian Party.

"There are a lot of Republicans who are reconsidering membership in a party that no longer represents them," she said. "I also agree that it could be ripe for a reset with the political parties in the nation."

Juan Manuel Ruiz, of Utah's Latin American Chamber of Commerce, also is a Republican who's disenchanted with [Sleezebag].

"It's probably right now we're going to see [the emergence of a third party], if it ever happens," Ruiz said on Trib Talk. "Unfortunately, I can't really vote for either one of the two" major parties' prospective nominees.

Johnson touts himself as a small-government fiscal conservative, who cut taxes and vetoed more than 750 bills during his two terms as New Mexico governor.

But it's not just conservative voters he is courting. He said of all the non-Libertarian candidates in the field, he lines up most closely with Sanders on the issues.

"Obviously, Bernie and I go separate ways when it comes to bigger government versus smaller government, free market [versus] socialism," Johnson said. "But I think there is a real crossover with Bernie supporters, and I'm talking now about marriage equality, let's not drop bombs, crony capitalism is alive and well, and let's legalize marijuana."

Until recently, Johnson was CEO of Cannabis Sativa Inc., a Nevada company that sought to market medical marijuana products. He made waves in 1999, when, as governor, he was one of the first politicians to endorse legalizing marijuana.

Now, he says, "to have 60 percent of Americans support it, I don't know about you, but the writing's on the wall. It's going to happen."

"I really think California is going to vote to legalize it at the ballot box in November, and I think overnight you'll have 20 state legislatures that will just pass the legislation," Johnson said.

Johnson is one of 17 candidates seeking the Libertarian nomination, but he is considered to be the front-runner, with computer security guru John McAfee his closest challenger. Johnson finished third in the presidential race in 2012. But, receiving just 1.27 million votes, he was more than 59 million votes behind second-place finisher Mitt Romney.

Fundraising will be a challenge for any Libertarian candidate, and Johnson raised about $279,000 as of the most recent disclosure report, filed last month.
   
 But the biggest challenge facing the Libertarians, Johnson argues, is that the party's nominee, thus far, has been excluded from the presidential debates. The rules for the debate require a candidate to get at least 15 percent in a national poll to qualify to be on the stage, but the national polls have not included Johnson's name as a choice.

So Johnson's campaign is suing the Commission on Presidential Debates, alleging collusion with the Democratic and Republican parties to rig the rules and exclude the third party.

Johnson said he believes the public wants other choices. [Sleezebag] represents 30 percent of the Republicans "who believe the scourge of the earth is Mexican immigration," he said, and Clinton is backed by 30 percent on the far left, leaving a wide swath in the middle that isn't represented.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Normally, I'm not much for law suits, but if the media can give $1.5 billion in free publicity to [Sleezebag], they can spare a little for the Libertarians who are on the ballot in every state, The Constitutionalist who have a larger voter registration, and the Greens who have a significant global presence.

What's the harm in having them do a kid's table debate before the Hillary-Donald?  I bet it would draw viewers this year.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2016, 06:29:56 PM
Who are the stars already in place, besides Johnson, in the Libertarian party in the last decade or so?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 07, 2016, 08:37:56 PM
Ron Paul.

Anybody else, I'll need to look up, because I can't recall. Even the ones I may have voted for.


"1980 Congressman John B. Anderson received 5,719,850 votes, for 6.6% of the vote, as an independent candidate for President. Libertarian Party candidate Ed Clark won 921,128 votes, or 1.1% of the total. No other Libertarian candidate has ever gotten more than 0.5% in a presidential election until Gary Johnson won 1% in 2012."

I seem to remember voting for Clark. 

Probably in 84'. In 80 I voted against Carter. I thought the inflation and interest rates were intolerable. In 84 I was upset with Reagan for turning a peacekeeping mission in Lebanon into a foreign adventure, by spying and using the battleship  ( I think NJ ) to support his favorite faction. Which led to the barracks bombing and the deaths of hundreds of US Marines. Also for breaking his "balanced budget by 1983, '84 at the latest" promise. Mondale was too liberal for my taste.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 07, 2016, 09:10:48 PM
See, that right there's the problem -leaving aside the nasty aspersions on anyone's manhood- an actual Libertarian can't name five party leaders off the top of his head.  Phail Phail Phail on the part of those non-leaders.  (I do believe that about many being actual wimps, compensating trying to compensate and failing.  It's based on the ones I've known IRL.)

-And there's no reason for the small-government, minimal law, party to have to be that way, (aside from the fundamental issues of governance in an anarchists' club)...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 07, 2016, 10:06:17 PM
It is rather disappointing.

It's more of a philosophy than a party. There was the free state project, but I don't think it's done more than generate state legislators. Might have moved if I were still single, but family-

Back to the grill.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 08, 2016, 02:13:34 AM
Let us know how it turned out.

-The grilling, not the Libertarians; hopefully, that will be in the news. ;)  (I'm actually rooting for them, not being entirely unsympathetic at all to the ideology...)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 08, 2016, 04:40:39 AM
I tried to post earlier, but my laptop overheated.

I got a Kingsford grill & tools at a liquidator, to leave here at my parent's house.. It's a little different than I'm used to, but I getting to like the warming rack. I was able to use that to get a smoke flavor into the Portobello. Also, the hot dogs were done about 5 minutes before everything else, and I was able to swap them with the pineapple spears on the warming rack.
3 of the guests were late arrivals. But I figured they would be slightly, because they always are.

Shortcomings- not knowing everybody's preferred doneness, I cooked the burgers in a spectrum ( that worked well ) because of concerns over that and my brother-in-law who has cardio vascular issues and salt restrictions, I was reluctant to bury them in melted cheese. SO- I forgot to put cheese on my Cheesehead wife's burger. All of them, for that matter. Major mistake, because all burgers have American cheese; it goes without saying. So everybody chose cheese at the table.

 I got a lot of razzing on that one, but otherwise everybody seemed happy. So it was a success.

Maybe I can grill once again before we start home. I was actually planning to do a lemon-garlic pork loin, buy Mom was hungry for hot dogs, so it turned into this.  My Mom thinks of me as a baker rather than a cook, but things have changed since I've been married and she doesn't get to
eat much of my cooking. The other advantage to grilling is that it doesn't mess up her kitchen or cost as much as dining out.

We'll see how things go tomorrow. Lunch is booked nearby. I'll ask what she wants for dinner, and go from there.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 08, 2016, 06:20:21 AM


I've been digging into candidates for the third parties I've mentioned.

Frankly, the Constitution Party candidates all sound like Ted Cruz, with the exception that they collectively  have no government experience -beyond a military service record in one case. I'd categorize them as Theocons.

So far I haven't found a Libertarian presidential candidate with qualifying gov. experience, beyond Johnson.

The Greens have 5 candidates, and all of them seem as delusional and well-intentioned  as Bernie. Dr. Jill Stein has a little local government experience, and a lot of experience as a candidate. Frankly, the Bernie people are a way better fit with her than Hillary.

One wanted a balanced budget, but pretty much all of them are socialists who seem to think that everyone has a right to employment @ $15/hr with healthcare and the right to strike.

I need to go to bed.






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 08, 2016, 05:09:49 PM
More comments on my recent organized third party research.

Just to be clear, the Libertarians have more than their share of screwballs, For example, John McAfee ( yes, that McAfee) who is also running for president. His candidacy is controversial, considering we was arrested in Tennessee for driving drunk and armed. He is also wanted in Belize, in connection with the death of his neighbor, although he says it has to do with a feud between him and that gov.
To be fair to him, I think he's the kind of guy that would start a feud with a government.
Smart as he is, I don't think he really has the disposition for the presidency.

I also came across an article from The Nation by a Chicago labor lawyer about how to destroy the Republican Party. Now seeing as how from when I was a GOP insider, plenty of members would have liked to destroy unions, so that seems fair. TANGENT- I might add that at that place and time we were not at all about suppressing the opposition vote. You can call it conceit, or call it idealism, but we believed that we entrepreneurial Republicans could outwork our counterparts when it came to turning out our membership on election day. We also believed that the problem was preponderance of New Deal Democrats who tended to vote straight tickets. We believed that that ideology was outdated, so to that end our number one priority was registration, because new voters would likely politely hear us out. We thought the smart ones would support most of our candidates. We registered lots of Democrats in the process, but it was a numbers game. We gradually got more competitive. /TANGENT

As I said, I can understand labor people seeking to destroy the GOP. What I found disgusting about it were his suggestions of openly circumventing the Constitution. It seems he believed in the principals of majority, but not of checks and balances. Kind of a sad day when Democrats are scheming to trample minority rights.

Certainly the GOP forgot the Constitution when they ratified and renewed the Patriot Act, but I can't recall them trying to deliberately circumvent it. Instead, they call for Balanced Budget and Right to Life amendments, and judges who strictly follow the Constitution, not that the GOP isn't infested with rat-bastards and deserves to die, but there still seems to be a distinction to me.

The cool thing about the Libertarian website were the words-

"Libertarians believe that all rights of all people matter all of the time"

Mother's Day interrupts...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 08, 2016, 05:36:40 PM
What all exactly did you do as a GOP insider?  I can imagine you humbly knocking on doors and harassing people at a legal distance outside polling places, but as smart as you are, I could also imagine you as the top guy for the county or at least reporting directly to him.  You're kinda too well-informed, I think, to have done only the knucklehead stuff...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 08, 2016, 08:53:54 PM
What all exactly did you do as a GOP insider?  I can imagine you humbly knocking on doors and harassing people at a legal distance outside polling places, but as smart as you are, I could also imagine you as the top guy for the county or at least reporting directly to him.  You're kinda too well-informed, I think, to have done only the knucklehead stuff...

Uh, mostly knucklehead stuff on account of being a full time farmer and available hours being seasonal and my busy work times being when the elections were held. A lot of putting up and taking down signs, manning the booth at the county fair. Poll watching, which means you basically take attendance in the polling place, check 'em off your list, and call the missing Republicans about 5 o'clock. Recruiting candidates for local government offices, helping with petitions, all of that stuff [Sleezebag] didn't think mattered. Of course there were fundraisers and receptions, too.

 I became friends with the chairman of the county commissioners and later congressional candidate. I was walking out of the country club mother's day buffet today ( no we weren't members, but it's a beautiful facility that caters to outside groups to pay the bills), ... and had a flashback. I once stood on the same spot with Governor Thornburgh ( later Attorney General of the USA ) and Joe Paterno (PSU Football Coach ). For that matter I met Congressman, later governor and director of homeland security Tom Ridge there too.

So it was pretty stimulating. Looking back I wish I would have made the effort to meet the Real George Bush, but I was excited about John Connally at the time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 08, 2016, 09:18:41 PM
Looking back I wish I would have made the effort to meet the Real George Bush.
I will be sad when the real George Bush dies.  It's a pity he doesn't get to see TV the week after.  Gerald Ford deserved that, too, and so will Dr. Carter.  Hell, it would have done the world no harm to have given Nixon the thrill of seeing Bob Dole lose it, which was sweet of him.

Several people who lived during my lifetime are conspicuously not mentioned in this post.  I may forgive Bakrama before he dies...

---

I have a definite unified theme going today, and I swear none of it was planned when I started the post besides the Johnny Cash video and the one about goodbyes.  My Empire of Dirt...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 08, 2016, 10:11:36 PM
I guess on the whole, it's kinda cool having the decision makers ask me for my opinion or my help.
Might have been useful if I ever needed theirs. Well, even if I did, I wouldn't be one to ask for it.


-------------------------------

While I certainly found common ground with the Greens with regard to foreign intervention and corporate personhood, their advocacy of domestic government intervention without regard to the Constitution was unsettling. Sort of a 180 from the Libertarians, some advocated the nationalization of all banks and utilities, because those things should exist to serve the people. Well, maybe they should try a credit union or an electric cooperative. I wasn't too sure about the slavery/native American reparations and subordination to the UN, either. I could be wrong, but I thought that all of the slaves and slave holders were dead.  The idea of no fossil fuel use  doesn't seem very practical to me either.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Supposedly Hillary and company are figuring on a $Billion general election campaign, so I guess my idea of giving back the quarter million to Goldman Sachs and saying" Thank you Bernie Sanders and your enthusiastic supporters for showing me the way, together we can make difference and Constitutionally reverse Citizen's United while there is still time, and change America not only for the better, but for good." is out.

If I felt the Bern, I'd go Green and give the Shillary the finger.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, what a pleasant thought, that they could see their funerals, I'm sad for George and Jimmy already.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 08, 2016, 10:46:44 PM
That naïve genuinely communistic thinking is why we need the not-wrong Libertarian voice in the conversation.  I've read Das Capital and I really get where the hippies are coming from -which is why I don't want that naïve genuinely communistic thinking ever going away completely- but read up on the Byzantine Empire and Imperial China and THINK, kids.

---

George and Jimmy - one-term Empires of Dirt for unpopular Presidents who were better men than all that.  Rodger that, and good point.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 08, 2016, 11:29:34 PM
But since I haven't said so in months - God bless Gerald R. Ford, a boring do-nothing impotent president when that was exactly what the world needed.  I figured that out before he died, but I totally noticed on TV the week after that many others had, too - if not phrasing it so bluntly.  I never knew anyone but me to say so while he was alive.

A better man and president than Chevy Chase ever was a comedian.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 10, 2016, 01:33:48 AM
Normally we go out to an historic local tavern on Mondays when here for a burger special. Instead my Mom asked me to grill again. I guess she liked it. And maybe she was trying to clear various small amounts of meat out of the refrigerator, grilling deals with that more easily than cooking it in the kitchen.

Anyway, I didn't see the news, just snipits as a result.  "I said I'm trying to get this straight..."
My wife said- "You're trying to use logic where none applies."

I guess it went like this-
*Cruz and Kassich dropped out after the Indiana primary. [Sleezebag] becomes the presumptive nominee.
*Some, like Rick Perry moved to endorse [Sleezebag], saying it's time to close ranks.
*When asked, Speaker Paul Ryan said something like he was waiting for [Sleezebag] to embrace Republican ideals before making an  endorsement.
* [Sleezebag] quips "I don't need him."
*[Sleezebag] follows up with " don't want him chairing the convention"
*Ryan responds with "the presumptive nominee can have what he wants. I'll step down as convention chair."
*Sarah Palin says he's finished in the Republican party because he has defied the will of the people. His career is over, and she will go to Wisconsin to campaign against him when he stands for re-election in the primary.

I've always said that I really liked Sarah Palin. I knew about her before McCain chose her, because I'd been in Alaska talking to Alaskans.  She's somebody I wanted to go fishing with.

Then she got on my naughty list for endorsing [Sleezebag]. Now, after this,  I'm not so sure she'd be safe with me in a small boat. I think she'd manage to say something that would offend me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 10, 2016, 03:11:06 AM
This surprises me - she is not utterly without charm and the group mind slams her in really unfair ways, but she's loudly proudly ignorant and has no business posing as a political figure.  You're not much of one to fall for loudly proudly ignorant.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 10, 2016, 05:19:12 AM
Well, I think she's gotten worse in the limelight. She has no business being a commentator. Her and her family's conflict resolution skills in recent years leave a lot to be desired, too.

But that woman who can travel around Alaska ( my favorite place) and remember people's names, that woman who shot and dressed a moose, that middle aged woman who didn't abort a down syndrome baby, who can remain cool in the presence of a bear, or club the halibut she just winched in.... that one.  I respected her. I always wanted to go fishing with her.  Or have her as a tour guide.
I think she could have use her fame to start that kind of family business in Alaska. Fishing/hunting/touring/lodging.

But her unqualified [Sleezebag] support is really tarnishing her luster.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 10, 2016, 12:05:23 PM
A week after the last cycle, I comment to my sister in an email "The silly" [girldog] "is already running for president."  About a year later, I remarked that I owed her an apology, 'cause it appeared she was actually running for Oprah.  Now --- I don't think she's ever figured out what she wants/can get/feels up to...  There are signs she knows she's in over her head...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 10, 2016, 11:08:46 PM
-could-beat-hillary-clinton-and-win-the-presidency/ar-BBsECsz]http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/3-reasons-donald-[Sleezebag]-could-beat-hillary-clinton-and-win-the-presidency/ar-BBsECsz (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/3-reasons-donald-[Sleezebag)

I'll paraphrase rather than cut & paste this one-

3 Reasons Donald [Sleezebag] could beat Hillary Clinton.

Polls favor her, but don't underestimate him.

1) He's able to shrug a lot of stuff off, and he could hardly do worse with minorities than Romney vs. Obama.

2) By track records, [Sleezebag] is much better at shaping the discourse than Hillary.

3) Clinton will be forced to defend the Status Quo, and [Sleezebag] is the way to flip off D.C.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 10, 2016, 11:30:09 PM
/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/10/ten-topics-for-ryan-to-discuss-with-[Sleezebag]/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/10/ten-topics-for-ryan-to-discuss-with-[Sleezebag)



Ten topics for Ryan to discuss with [Sleezebag]
 By Jennifer Rubin May 10 at 5:30 PM

 The Wall Street Journal reports that House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) “acknowledged the tensions dividing the Republican Party as it winds down a turbulent presidential primary and said GOP leaders must work with Mr. [Sleezebag] to resolve them. ‘We shouldn’t just pretend our party is unified when we know it is not,’ Mr. Ryan said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, streamed live on Facebook. ‘We can’t fake it, we can’t pretend. We have to actually unify.’ ”

This did not sound too optimistic about the potential for unification, because [Sleezebag] thinks the party should unify around him personally (whatever he says) and Ryan thinks [Sleezebag] and the party should unify around common principles. Ryan put his finger on the problem: “There are some critical principles that we all believe in as conservatives, that we just want to make sure that we’re all rallying around those principles as we move forward.”

Here are some questions Ryan and [Sleezebag] might discuss to see if there is any agreement:

1. Does [Sleezebag] believe in keeping government the size it is, making it larger or making it smaller?

2. Does he have a view of the 10th Amendment? On what sorts of things should states have primary responsibility?

3. What is his view on the extent of executive authority? What kind of executive orders would he make, and what are examples of some things he would not do?

4. What is the United States’ role in the world? How is his “America First” policy different from Charles Lindbergh’s view? Or President Obama’s?

5. Is there a structural entitlement problem?

6. Is he willing to renounce conspiracy-mongering and stop citing the National Enquirer (and its ilk) in factual matters?

7. Where does he come down in the religious liberty debate regarding issues such as health-care mandates on religious organizations and conscience-clause exceptions?

8. How does he plan to address low growth and stagnant wages?

9. What is his view on the safety net?

10. Are legal immigration and trade good for the United States?

Ryan should not be seeking specific answers but rather should satisfy himself that [Sleezebag] is a serious person whose instincts are in keeping with principles such as sound money, fiscal sobriety, American international leadership, and promotion of a thriving free market. Ryan should also be certain that [Sleezebag] can rationally think through policy choices, differentiates facts from rumors and understands that a legitimate presidential candidate cannot engage in vulgar language, slurs against various groups and nasty personal attacks on fellow Republicans.

Wait a minute. [Sleezebag]’s not going to have a discussion about these items, you say. He doesn’t have anything to say and he doesn’t want to be pinned down. You are right, which is why it is likely impossible for Ryan to support [Sleezebag] or any other candidate who has no cohesive approach to governance, let alone a conservative one. But didn’t [Sleezebag] win? He did, and no one would deny him the nomination if he had the delegates. But voters make horrible mistakes, and as a matter of conscience it may be impossible for some to support [Sleezebag], any more than they could support David Duke or someone else obviously lacking the mental and temperamental skills required of a president. To remain silent when someone not only unconservative but unfit may win the presidency would be irresponsible and immoral, a violation of officials’ constitutional oath.

The real question is why self-described conservatives — who condemn liberals for big government, isolationism, fiscal sloth, personal smears and the like — are willing to put their faith in someone who does not share their conservative vision, who has no ethical standards and who has no interest in learning the most rudimentary aspects of domestic and foreign policy. Apparently their attachment to conservative policy and values all these years has simply been for show.

________________________
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 10, 2016, 11:50:49 PM
I have to say that Ryan has seemed to have risen to the speakership in at least not messing up and being a total mouthy know-nothing boob like I would have expected, but the mass media group mind has been in the bag for him since he rose to that office, and it's foolish to forget his beginnings as a tea party knob.  I want to see him keep up the sober class act for a few years before I let go of that bad past, because I'm not stupid, and it would be incredibly precipitous to be grazing with the news herd on that just yet.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/3-reasons-donald-T rump-could-beat-hillary-clinton-and-win-the-presidency/ar-BBsECsz (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/3-reasons-donald-T rump-could-beat-hillary-clinton-and-win-the-presidency/ar-BBsECsz)

I'll paraphrase rather than cut & paste this one-

3 Reasons Donald T rump could beat Hillary Clinton.

Polls favor her, but don't underestimate him.

1) He's able to shrug a lot of stuff off, and he could hardly do worse with minorities than Romney vs. Obama.

2) By track records, T rump is much better at shaping the discourse than Hillary.

3) Clinton will be forced to defend the Status Quo, and T rump is the way to flip off D.C.
This actually makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 11, 2016, 03:03:02 AM
This next part you just have to laugh at, or else you might cry or tear out clumps of hair.
My wife thought I was putting her on. The actual article is full of links.
I think [Sleezebag] has made the transition from Reality TV to SurReality TV.

This list does not include Hulk Hogan, who has expressed interest in the VP job.

-vice-president_us_572a256ce4b096e9f08fdf5a?cps=gravity_2425_-4527083527063434985]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-[Sleezebag]-vice-president_us_572a256ce4b096e9f08fdf5a?cps=gravity_2425_-4527083527063434985 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-[Sleezebag)

One Of These Tremendous People Could Be Donald [Sleezebag]’s Running Mate

It’s going to be a beautiful nominee, let me tell you. The best.


Business mogul Donald [Sleezebag] has a clear path to the Republican presidential nomination now that Ohio Gov. John Kasich has suspended his campaign.

The New York Times reported Wednesday that [Sleezebag] — who is expected to reveal his vice presidential pick in July, just ahead of the Republican National Convention — has hired retired neurosurgeon and former GOP presidential hopeful Ben Carson to help select his running mate.

So who could run alongside The Donald? Several Republicans have said they’re just not interested and an adviser to former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush openly laughed at the idea of him serving.

Still, some choices remain. Check out our short list of potential VP candidates:

Ben Carson
Even though [Sleezebag] called Carson a child molester, he was delighted when the former neurosurgeon endorsed his campaign in March. In his endorsement, Carson said that there were “two different Trumps” and he was endorsing the more cerebral version of the candidate.

Carson, who is seen as a political outsider like [Sleezebag], could also help the presumptive nominee make inroads with evangelical voters. Let’s just hope he’s a better VP than a campaign surrogate.

 
Chris Christie
The New Jersey governor’s endorsement of [Sleezebag] in February came as a surprise to many and gave [Sleezebag] a high-profile surrogate. Christie failed to pick up much traction during his run, but could be a formidable attack dog on the campaign trail.

Being vice president would also require Christie to spend a lot of time standing behind [Sleezebag] on television, which could be a problem.

 
Sarah Palin
The former Alaska governor, who stepped down from her position in 2009, has been a part of the veepstakes before. [Sleezebag] has played up Palin’s January endorsement of him, though her actual endorsement speech was just bizarre.

Picking Palin might be an obvious appeal for women’s votes, though it shouldn’t be — Palin has disappointed women’s rights activists since she ran for veep in 2008 and recently defended [Sleezebag]’s anti-abortion views.

 
Rick Scott
The Florida governor, elected to a second term in 2014, has known [Sleezebag] for a while, was in business before coming to politics and could help in a crucial swing state during the general election. But not everyone’s a fan, and this video of a woman loudly calling Scott “an [jerk, sphincter]” in a Starbucks may not be a good look for a potential VP.

 
Tom Brady
One of [Sleezebag]’s “Make America Great Again” hats was spotted in the locker of the Patriots star quarterback last year, and Brady has called [Sleezebag] a “good friend.”

Still, Brady may want to resolve his own legal woes before jumping into the campaign.

 
Jon Huntsman
Huntsman refused to seek [Sleezebag]’s support when he was running for president in 2012, but recently came around to the idea of a [Sleezebag] presidency.

“We’ve had enough intraparty fighting. Now’s the time to stitch together a winning coalition,” Huntsman told Politico last month. “And it’s been clear almost from the beginning that Donald [Sleezebag] has the ability to assemble a nontraditional bloc of supporters. … The ability to cut across traditional party boundaries — like ’80, ’92 and 2008 — will be key, and [Sleezebag] is much better positioned to achieve that.”

 
Omarosa Manigault
The former star of “The Apprentice” has been a prominent surrogate for [Sleezebag] on the campaign trail. Picking Omarosa probably wouldn’t help [Sleezebag]’s favorability ratings, given that she was seen as a villain on his show.

 
Bobby Jindal
Despite once calling [Sleezebag] a “narcissist” and an “egomaniac”, Jindal said Tuesday he would vote for [Sleezebag] in November, though he’s “not happy about it.”

Maybe if Jindal were VP, he could help the GOP “stop being the stupid party.”

 
Mark Cuban
Cuban, who owns the Dallas Mavericks, said back in February he’d do a better a job as president than [Sleezebag], but later stated he’d agree to be the business mogul’s VP on one condition.

 “As long as he said he’s listen to me in everything I said we’d be okay,” Cuban told Sports Day.

 
Jeff Sessions
The endorsement of the Alabama senator was a coup for [Sleezebag] and helped to fend off attacks from Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) that [Sleezebag] wasn’t serious about his immigration plans. When he endorsed [Sleezebag], Sessions admitted [Sleezebag] wasn’t perfect but said he was the most likely to fix the country’s immigration system.

Sessions, who has been in the Senate since 1997, could bring a sense of Washington experience to [Sleezebag]’s campaign.

Bobby Knight
The infamous Indiana Hoosiers head coach recently endorsed [Sleezebag], calling the business mogul “the most prepared man in history” to be commander in chief. But it probably wouldn’t hurt for [Sleezebag] to get a little help from someone who can strategize.


Editor’s note: Donald [Sleezebag] regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, Hillary has abandoned her plan to ingnore the Bern, stop spending ad money and re-tool for [Sleezebag]. She's running ads in Kentucky.

In yet another bizarre twist Cruz is hinting he might re-enter the race if he wins Nebraska.


 



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 11, 2016, 03:41:44 AM
That there's one mentally-challenged list.  That there, in fact, is HuffPo bullcrap at its worst.  It mentions talking to no one, no sources; it's just diarrhea of the keyboard, a comedy piece impersonating political reporting/commentary, a blue sky spit-balling daydream written down.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 11, 2016, 05:57:02 AM
Digging deeper into the VP question...

*The Daily Beast says Carson has left the selection committee after putting forward some names to [Sleezebag]'s campaign manager. Carson is now laying groundwork for the Ryan-[Sleezebag] summit, according to Carson's manager.

*CNN says Corey Lewandowski, [Sleezebag]'s campaign manager is in charge of the search at this point.
The short list is 5 or 6 names. Marco Rubio is not interested, because he still disagrees with [Sleezebag] on policy, but will honor his pledge to support the GOP nominee.

*CBS says [Sleezebag] has tightened the list to 5 or 6. He doesn't need another businessman. He's looking for legislative experience. Christie is still in the running.

*Politico says Evangelicals want a Theocon VP or they sit this one out.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 11, 2016, 01:32:47 PM
The Pig is the theocon's worst nightmare, if only they thought straight about politics in the first place.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 12, 2016, 03:22:38 AM
On the road with satellite radio, mostly MSNBC and CNN today.

A lot of chatter about the [Sleezebag]-Ryan summit. I found it amusing that the Ohio senator who had endorsed [Sleezebag] and was criticizing Ryan for not doing more to embrace him said he wouldn't take the VP slot if offered. Yeah, there's a lot of that going around...

Rudi Juliani
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 12, 2016, 04:09:46 AM
 Rudi is pro [Sleezebag], but says that his Muslim policy is in clear violation of the first amendment.

That Ohio senator I mentioned said he had no idea what [Sleezebag] meant when he said he would renegotiate the national debt. Odd for an Ohio senator to support [Sleezebag] anyway, considering the voters there gave him a double digit defeat and he got zero delegates.

A pro [Sleezebag] congressman, also critical of Ryan, certainly distanced himself from Trumps remarks about the gov. never defaulting, he'd simply order the Treasury to print more money...

I guess Ryan is supposed to just embrace him and run the other way the way they are. We're not so sure that Ryan might not step down as Speaker. His wife didn't want him to take the job in the first place. Thing is, he takes the job and the party and his oath of office to the Constitution seriously. 

[Sleezebag] has never held elected office, so whatever he says is much like whatever  a radio talk show host says- whatever crosses his mind, and the more controversial, the better.

It's hard to reconcile that. Really hard.
-------------------------------

The other topic today was Mitt Romney renewing his call for [Sleezebag] to release some tax returns from a year before the ones under audit. He claims there has to be a bombshell in there, possibly even something criminal.

My wife, who used to be a Chief Accounting Officer for a multi-billion dollar company says she doubts even she could understand [Sleezebag]'s tax returns. It would take a tax accountant with multi-billion experience. ( Yes, there is specialization among CPAs ).

Rather than get into a discussion of what [Sleezebag]'s tax returns might reveal, I'd likje to touch on another point-

The political analysts were saying that Romney was putting a knife in [Sleezebag]'s back, making the same point as Hillary, now that [Sleezebag] is the presumptive nominee, and there are no Republican contenders left to carry this torch. He should put differences aside now.

Really?

Apparently they forgot that Romney articulated the "Never [Sleezebag]" strategy. Maybe they don't know the meaning of the word "never". Or why.

To use /the Leader's 2nd favorite word ( after his own last name) -
If [Sleezebag] is the nominee it would be a "disaster" for the GOP. If [Sleezebag] is the president it would be "disaster" for our country.

When you believe that, as Romney, me, my wife, the voters of Ohio, Utah, and Wisconsin do, it's hard to remain silent.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 12, 2016, 04:53:33 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 13, 2016, 02:14:56 AM
I know that The Leader has been having problems with his rallies. It seems that no sooner do they select new theme music, than the artist/songwriter politely asks them not to use it anymore. But I've come up with a rockin' song, and I'm pretty sure the artists won't object to it's use at [Sleezebag] Rallies.

Cult of Personality by Living Color

Look into my eyes
What do you see ? The cult of personality.
I know your anger
I know your dreams


I've been everything you want to be.
I'm the cult of personality like Mussolini and Kennedy.
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality


The cult of personality.


Neon lights a Nobel Prize

Where the mirror speaks the reflection lies.
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free.


I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your T.V. -
I'm the cult of personality.
I exploit you
Still you love me
I tell you one and one makes three.
I'm the cult of personality
Like Joseph Stalin and Gandhi.
I'm the cult of personality
The cult of personality


The cult of personality.

Neon lights a Nobel Prize


Where the mirror speaks the reflection lies.
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free.


You gave me fortune
You gave me fame


You gave me power in your God's name.
I'm every person you need to be
I'm the cult of personality.
I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of


I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of
I'm the cult of


I'm the cult of personality !

---------------------------------------------------------
My take on the Ryan-[Sleezebag] summit-

Ryan described [Sleezebag] as "genuine" , which makes me think that Ryan got sold. Genuine people don't need to use the phrases "trust me" and "believe me" as punctuation for their paragraphs.
Their consistent conduct and veracity make that unnecessary.

[Sleezebag] must have affirmed the Constitution. He must have declined to change his tone.

 [Sleezebag] is at heart, flexible, and about himself. He is running against Washington. He has promised to leave Social Security untouched. Ryan is about party, policy, and core principals. He is a leader in Washington. He wants to reform Social Security to keep it viable for his mother. I can only see them reconciling temporarily.


-------------------------------------------

In the post-Journalism era of American Politics, maybe a lot of conventional wisdom is out.

It used to be-

* You could count on the press to crucify a candidate, even if they only phrased something badly. They were constantly building somebody up just so they could take them down and have a horse race story to justify the travel and coverage.

*You needed a party organization to get out the vote. [Sleezebag] seems to think he can do that with social media. Maybe he's right.

*You need a party to get on the ballot in all 50 states, and for fundraising. Well, maybe you still do.
But then again, with social media you can send the people to the petition carrier now, rather than having the volunteer do the leg work. You can register people at rallies. You can fund raise online.

* You need a party to nurture and support new talent and get them experienced and tested  at lower levels of government so that they are qualified for more important offices. Well, maybe.  Apparently people don't think elected government or military experience is a requirement any more.

Whether the [Sleezebag] approach is sustainable, or for that matter, successful, remains to be seen.






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 13, 2016, 02:36:50 AM
post-Journalism era of American Politics
That's a rather brilliant turn of phrase, sir, something for which you seem to have a gift.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 13, 2016, 05:45:24 AM
Thanks.

I don't suppose you'll hear that phrase on TV.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 13, 2016, 01:41:56 PM
If enough people start using it, you will hear it on the 'news' - they have no shame.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 14, 2016, 09:48:01 PM
I feel sorry for Paul Ryan.

He's taking heat nationally for not doing more to unify the party behind [Sleezebag].

Here at the home of Never [Sleezebag], never still means never, and he's taking heat for moving closer to a guy considered unqualified by both experience and demeanor for the Oval Office and the nuclear launch codes that come with it.

------------------------
What Ryan did do was to acknowledge [Sleezebag] and the people who followed him into the party, crediting them for making a difference and transforming the party.

Hillary hasn't been that magnanimous. So I picked a new theme song for the Sanders campaign, just to remind her that if she doesn't acknowledge them and adopt some of their views, they still have an option to continue to oppose her, the first Democratic presidential candidate endorsed by the NeoCons. "Green, Green" by the New Christie Minstrels.

Green, green,
 It's green they say,
 On the far side of the hill.
 Green, green,
 I'm going away to where
 The grass is greener still.

 A-well, I told my mama
 On the day I was born,
 Don't you cry
 When you see I'm gone.

 You know there ain't no woman
 Gonna settle me down.
 I just gotta be traveling on,
 A-singing...

 [Chorus:]

 Nah, there ain't nobody
 In this whole wide world
 Gonna tell me how to spend my time.
 I'm just a good loving rambling man,
 Say, buddy, can you spare me a dime?
 Hear me crying, it's a...

 [Chorus:]

 Yeah, I don't care
 When the sun goes down,
 Where I lay my weary head.
 Green, green valley or rocky road,
 It's there I'm gonna make my bed.
 Easy, now...

 [Chorus:]

 Everybody, I wanna hear it now...

 [Chorus:]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 14, 2016, 10:02:47 PM
Well, just so that she doesn't feel left out, I have selected a theme song for Hillary, too. One that displays her disdain for [Sleezebag], and expresses her long-suffering. "We will Rock You / We Are the Champions" by Queen.

Buddy you're a boy make a big noise
 Playin' in the street gonna be a big man some day
 You got mud on yo' face
 You big disgrace
 Kickin' your can all over the place
 Singin'

We will we will rock you
 We will we will rock you

Buddy you're a young man hard man
 Shouting in the street gonna take on the world some day
 You got blood on yo' face
 You big disgrace
 Wavin' your banner all over the place

We will we will rock you
 Sing it
 We will we will rock you

Buddy you're an old man poor man
 Pleadin' with your eyes gonna make
 You some peace some day
 You got mud on your face
 Big disgrace
 Somebody betta put you back into your place

We will we will rock you
 Sing it
 We will we will rock you
 Everybody
 We will we will rock you
 We will we will rock you
 Alright

I've paid my dues
Time after time
I've done my sentence
But committed no crime
And bad mistakes
I've made a few
I've had my share of sand
Kicked in my face
But I've come through


And we mean to go on and on and on and on


We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World


I've taken my bows
And my curtain calls
You brought me fame and fortune
And everything that goes with it
I thank you all
But it's been no bed of roses
No pleasure cruise
I consider it a challenge before
The whole human race
And I ain't gonna lose

And we mean to go on and on and on and on


We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World


We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting
Till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Trenacker on May 15, 2016, 11:53:34 PM
From the looks of it, Ryan and most other Republican pols (John McCain is one good example) have determined that the wind is blowing in a Trumperly direction. Rather than risk being evicted from office by angry [Sleezebag] voters who will treat withheld endorsements like the infamous "Christie-Obama hugfest," Ryan opted for a sham sit-down to give the appearance of having taken a courageous stand, then threw in with The Donald for reasons of self-preservation. His decisions gives the green light to hitch up to the [Sleezebag] Train™ without further hand-wringing.

This is a tragedy. Even while I am not, in fact, a conservative any longer, I have always identified as a Republican. I no longer see anything redeeming in that party. Not when their nominee is an enthusiastic promoter of political violence, a crude bigot, and a raving conspiracy theorist who questions the value of post-World War II liberal-democratic security architecture.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 16, 2016, 08:23:56 AM
The voters in Ryan's district are #Never [Sleezebag].
He's pretty safe.

I think he's trying to walk a line to protect the House Majority. He just passed up another opportunity to endorse [Sleezebag] at the Wisconsin GOP convention.

I certainly agree this is a tragedy, but I'm hoping the Libertarians get some traction out of it.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 16, 2016, 04:47:40 PM
I'm rather rooting for the Libertarians myself.



Quote from: Facebook news sidebar thing
Ben Carson: Former GOP Candidate Names Potential Vice President Nominees for Donald T rump

Carson, who is part of T rump's vice presidential search committee, named Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Marco Rubio and Chris Christie as potentials for the role to The Washington Post.
Not nearly so moronic a list as one might have feared, with a glaring exception.  -And I'd tend to guess only Christie wants the nod, if some of the others might reluctantly accept.

I think Mrs. Palin has figured out she's done with real politics.  There's signs she doesn't even want to be reactionary Oprah anymore, and doesn't know WHAT to do with the opportunities fame has brought.  She's making bank with the aimless speaking engagement career, anyway, and probably doesn't think it needs fixing.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 16, 2016, 08:01:36 PM
WOW!

I thought that Cruz, Kasich, and Rubio were pretty clear about not wanting the job.

Of course, The Real George Bush was rather emphatic about not believing in Voodoo economics, and not wanting to be Veep.

But in the long run, he wanted to be POTUS all of his life, and he had to decide what would advance him towards that goal.


Even so, I can't imagine Cruz giving up his power in the senate, OR making Heidi stand on the same platform with The Donald. Cruz and [Sleezebag] started out on friendly terms, but they didn't end up that way. While it used to be unheard of to refuse the presidential candidate, a lot of people have already turned down [Sleezebag] this year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 16, 2016, 08:33:13 PM
I am surprised that one. single. sane. (adult - you can see where a few 13 year-old boys might like his "style") person voted for that son of unmarried "people" for so much as dogcatcher.

Make up the rest; it's too obvious to bother typing out.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2016, 01:10:13 AM
Okay so ha ha ha.  Very funny, we got punked.  You punked the World with this [Sleezebag] and Hillary circus but now you're scaring us.

Please finish the joke and come out with the REAL contenders for Pres.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2016, 01:25:35 AM
Okay so ha ha ha.  Very funny, we got punked.  You punked the World with this T rump and Hillary circus but now you're scaring us.

Please finish the joke and come out with the REAL contenders for Pres.
...Do what the dirty, dirty feriner says, people; he's right...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2016, 01:36:15 AM
(http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/images/smilies/bruce.gif)

* Thought you had this one here.  Had to "borrow" from the other place. *
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2016, 01:39:23 AM
One of my best early efforts, that modification. ;nod

We aren't flooded with Bruce and Tex here, oddly enough, or I probably would have installed it.  Lotta furriners, but them's mostly Euros.

-Everybody gets a free smilie install request, BTW, and you ain't used yours, Bruce...  I've totally got the file somewhere...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2016, 02:30:44 AM
One of my best early efforts, that modification. ;nod

We aren't flooded with Bruce and Tex here, oddly enough, or I probably would have installed it.  Lotta furriners, but them's mostly Euros.

-Everybody gets a free smilie install request, BTW, and you ain't used yours, Bruce...  I've totally got the file somewhere...

It's called Right-Click Save-As.  ;)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 17, 2016, 02:34:44 AM
Sadly, I think the "Real Candidates" were supposed to be Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2016, 02:40:25 AM
I was always pretty sure of that.  ;goofy;

It's called Right-Click Save-As.  ;)
Yeah; first thing I did to make that one.  Are you asking for the Bruce smilie or not?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2016, 02:57:07 AM
I was always pretty sure of that.  ;goofy;

It's called Right-Click Save-As.  ;)
Yeah; first thing I did to make that one.  Are you asking for the Bruce smilie or not?

It's up to you.  Your forum, your rules.  If it's there I might use it, if not I might just link it again like I did above.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2016, 03:45:20 AM
I'll wait until you feel like using up your free request, then...  -Or Kilkakon and Flygon get active again with you; they're Bruces.  Something I deem useful to enough people doesn't use up a freeby - Geo was good at coming up with those, but used his freeby on this, note the hovertext.   ;cute
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 17, 2016, 05:57:53 AM
This talk of smilies makes me nostalgic for The Enterprise vs. the Romulans. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2016, 06:06:13 AM
It was never installed as a smilie - I album img-linked it, and it's still there.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 19, 2016, 03:43:00 AM
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/former-mass-gov-william-weld-being-considered-libertarian-party-vp-n576256 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/former-mass-gov-william-weld-being-considered-libertarian-party-vp-n576256)

Politics
 
May 18 2016, 1:31 pm ET
Libertarian Party Candidate Gary Johnson Chooses Former Mass. Gov. Bill Weld as His VP
by Leigh Ann Caldwell

Favored Libertarian Party presidential candidate Gary Johnson has agreed to join forces with former Massachusetts Governor William Weld for the Libertarian Party's nomination. Weld will run for the party's vice presidential slot, possibly bolstering the third party's appeal to general election voters.

Weld was a popular governor in the 1990s with crossover appeal and could boost the legitimacy of a third-party option for voters disgruntled by presumptive Republican nominee Donald [Sleezebag] and likely Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

"It brings an enormous amount of credibility to what it is I'm doing," Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico, said in a statement. "I'm unbelievably flattered by this and humbled."

The official announcement is expected Thursday morning.

Johnson was the party's nominee in 2012 and won 1.2 million votes, more than any previous Libertarian presidential candidate. Four years later he could be an even greater contender as some Republicans, including party leaders like Mitt Romney, have voiced their desire for an alternative presidential candidate to [Sleezebag]. Weld could help him do that.

Weld, a fiscal conservative and social liberal, won two terms as a Republican in the heavily Democratic state of Massachusetts, including with 71 percent of the vote in his re-election. His political preferences have spanned the political spectrum. He endorsed fellow Massachusetts politician Romney in the last presidential election but supported Barack Obama in 2008.

But first, Weld, currently a consultant in Boston for ML Strategies, must appeal to Libertarian Party purists at the upcoming nominating convention. One component of his resume could help him do that: He entertained the idea of running for governor of New York as a Libertarian in 2006.

The Libertarian Party holds its nominating convention Memorial Day Weekend in Orlando, Florida. While Johnson is favored to win, it is expected to be a close race.

John McAfee, 70-year old cyber entrepreneur who was also being sought by police in Belize for a murder, is also running and has attracted support.

The party does not hold state-based primaries. Instead the nominee is chosen by party activists at the convention through a voting process of elimination. Rounds of voting occur until a candidate wins a majority of support.

"The convention can sometimes be unpredictable," Nicholas Sarwark, chair of the Libertarian Party told NBC News. "In 2004, neither front runner won."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 22, 2016, 04:10:45 AM
Libertarian hopeful Gary Johnson denies rumor of ‘eight-figure’ Koch campaign donation
By David Weigel May 19


Libertarian presidential hopeful Gary Johnson pushed back on a report that David Koch, the billionaire who once ran as the party's vice presidential nominee, was ready to fund his campaign.

"To my knowledge, it's not happening," said Johnson, in a short interview Thursday. "That's not to say it isn't, but it would be a surprise to me. We tried to talk to Kochs during the last cycle, and we couldn't do it. There are a lot of people who are expressing interest, in a big way, to be a part of this, but I'm not naming names. I can say that I haven't reached out to the Kochs."

A top Koch Industries official also said the story was inaccurate.

“Reports that David Koch has pledged his support to Gary Johnson – or any candidate running for president for that matter – are untrue," Philip Ellender, president of public affairs at Koch Companies Public Sector, said in a statement.

The rumor began with a story by a freelance contributor to the Daily Caller, which cited "a source within Johnson's campaign" to claim that Koch would spend "tens of millions of dollars" to help Johnson if he won the Libertarian Party's nomination next weekend in Orlando. A non-denial by "a source close to David Koch" powered the rest of the story, as Johnson's small organization generally dodged the question.

Were Koch to invest in the Libertarian Party, at all, it would represent a major break from 2012 -- when he served as a Republican delegate for Mitt Romney -- and a flashback to an awkward past. In 1980, Koch joined the Libertarian Party and spent $2 million to boost the party as its candidate for vice president. The result was the best showing in the party's history, with 1.06 percent of the popular vote. (In 2012, Johnson became the first Libertarian to crack 1 million votes, representing 0.99 percent of the electorate.) In the aftermath, Koch and allies like Cato Institute founder Ed Crane were effectively chased out of the party by a "paleo" wing that worried about the party being watered down.

"Koch explicitly wants to run the movement like a corporation," wrote Murray Rothbard, a paleolibertarian thinker and activist, according to Brian Doherty's movement history "Radicals for Capitalism." To Rothbard, Koch represented the party "sliding down the slippery slope to opportunism and sellout of libertarian principle," and by 1984, that faction was defeated.

David Koch, and his brother Charles, turned their energy and donations over to libertarian think tanks, reengaging in electoral politics during President Obama's term. Some of the divisions inside the libertarian movement were smoothed over as Koch funding helped elect conservative Republicans and as Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) attempted to build bridges between his father's "liberty movement" and the Kochs by appearing at their donor summits.

Still, Johnson's campaign is in no position to confirm that Koch would spend more than any third party has ever received to help a Johnson-led ticket. "It sounds like someone who wants to be a player said something he couldn't know," suggested John Vaught LaBeaume, a Johnson spokesman. Johnson, who announced this week that former Massachusetts governor William Weld would serve as his running mate if nominated, wouldn't comment on how the Koch rumor would play.

"I couldn't say either way whether it affects the delegates in Orlando," he said.

Last month, the Federal Elections Commission reported that Johnson's 2012 campaign remains $332,191 in debt.

Matea Gold contributed to this report.


-----------------------------------------

Well, I hope Johnson gets the nomination. A double governor ticket would be a qualified outsider ticket.

Any of the other Libertarian candidates would probably be considered a joke, even though they are smart people.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 22, 2016, 04:30:56 AM
A Koch brother a LIBERTARIAN?  Phooey.  They're CEOcon/Theocon or something.

(I have the vague idea that David is the oldest, and not one of the two in charge of the business that you hear about pulling -I almost left out the word vile here- political shenanigans, so I may have just been very unfair...)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 22, 2016, 02:58:58 PM
Quote
Robert Kagan: Columnist Pens 'This Is How Fascism Comes to America' Opinion Piece on Donald T rump

"The Republican Party’s attempt to treat Donald T rump as a normal political candidate would be laughable were it not so perilous to the republic," Kagan wrote in the The Washington Post piece.
The Post link:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html)

-I've got a thing today I need to wrap up, so somebody actually read the article and either post it or tell me to go ahead when I'm free later.  I've been thinking this all along; first the unforgivable excesses of the Cheney administration, now a hate-peddling demagogue doing appallingly well.  -Literally appalling, not a figure of speech.

We are on that road.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 22, 2016, 09:15:55 PM
Hence my adoption of the term "The Leader" months ago. What you didn't know is that while I was reading about the violence and the pledges at the rallies, I was usually humming "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" or that tanker's song from the movie Battle of the Bulge.

When this Fascism comes to pass, as it probably will, I'll be sure to thank those who accepted The Patriot Act, and the media people masquerading as journalists. I'll also thank Hillary, who seemed to be more intent on telling everybody to get in line behind her, NOW, she means it, because she's Hillary, she's paid her dues, and she's paid for the super delegates, and now we all owe her, than she was on acknowledging the Sanders supporters and making some concessions to them to unite her party.

Maybe I shouldn't blame her for that. Green Party frontrunner Dr. Jill Stein, is quick to point out how the Democratic Party has a history of absorbing and ignoring progressive movements like Jackson's Rainbow Coalition. It's S.O.P.

Perhaps I should instead thank the RINO hunters, who made the BIG TENT small enough to be taken over by an interloping barker.

The people will get what they ask for, and the historians will sort it out. Well, maybe the European historians will have to do it, because I have a feeling that the Trumpidency will do more than "loosen up libel laws" when it comes to protecting the legacy of "The People's President".
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 22, 2016, 09:19:23 PM
If only I could extract myself and Buster from this dystopian nightmare timeline, I would leave the electorate to what they deserve, not without regret, but without hesitation.

It Can Happen Here.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 23, 2016, 01:17:22 AM
Usually I draw comparisons with Il Duce, but maybe the Kim Clan of North Korea could be illuminating as well, after all, they have an eye for lovely ladies, and launched a cyber attack against Sony because they made an unflattering movie. Sounds like something a counterpuncher who doesn't take anything off of the table might do.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 23, 2016, 01:23:29 AM
I am ashamed to be on the same planet.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 23, 2016, 10:35:25 PM
-immigration-policy-comparison-to-kristallnacht/]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/william-weld-sticks-to-donald-[Sleezebag]-immigration-policy-comparison-to-kristallnacht/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/william-weld-sticks-to-donald-[Sleezebag)

By/ Rebecca Shabad/ CBS News/ May 23, 2016, 11:22 AM

William Weld sticks to Donald [Sleezebag] immigration policy comparison to Kristallnacht

Former Massachusetts Gov. William Weld is sticking to his comparison of Donald [Sleezebag]'s immigration plan to Kristallnacht, a major turning point in the Holocaust.

In an interview on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday, Weld was asked if it was a little strong to talk about the Holocaust and [Sleezebag].

"No, no, no, I don't think so. I served five years on the U.S. Holocaust Commission, by appointment of President George W. Bush," Weld said. " I'm absolutely certain that, as we said in those years, if we don't remember, we absolutely will forget. And you got to forget a lot of things to think it's a good idea to round up and deport 11 million people living peaceably, most of them working, in America, in the middle of the night."

Last Thursday, The New York Times published a story about Weld after interviewing him. Referring to [Sleezebag]'s plan to round up and deport the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S., Weld said, "I can hear the glass crunching on Kristallnacht in the ghettos of Warsaw and Vienna when I hear that, honest."

Weld was then asked if [Sleezebag] is a fascist.

"My Kristallnacht analogy does evoke the Nazi period in Germany," he said. "And that's what I'm worried about -- a slippery slope."

"No, I wouldn't call Mr. [Sleezebag] either a fascist or a Nazi...I'm just saying, we got to watch it when we get exclusionary about people on account of their status as a member of a group," said Weld, who has joined the Libertarian ticket as Gary Johnson's running mate.

Kristallnacht, also known as the "Night of Broken Glass," was a wave of anti-Jewish violence by the Nazis on November 8 and 9 in 1938 in Germany as well as parts of Austria and Czechoslovakia. They smashed shop windows of businesses owned by Jews, destroyed 267 synagogues across those countries and arrested up to 30,000 Jewish men and transferred them to concentration camps, according to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

The event was considered a major turning point in the Holocaust and led to anti-Jewish legislation, deportations and Hitler's "Final Solution" to exterminate European Jews.

[Sleezebag], the presumptive GOP nominee, has never talked about committing violent acts to round up people in the U.S. to deport them. Instead, he has said that the deportations would happen in a "humane" way.

[Sleezebag] has come under fire, however, for controversial remarks he has made about Mexican immigrants when he called them "rapists" and said they're "killing thousands of people."

Last September, [Sleezebag] said that, if he's elected, it would take his administration up to two years to deport all of the undocumented immigrants in the U.S. [Sleezebag] has defended his plan by alluding to one implemented by President Dwight Eisenhower that supposedly deported more than a million undocumented immigrants in the 1950s -- that initiative was called "Operation [illegal immigrant]."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't like the idea of breaking up families, no matter how "humanely" it's done.

If I didn't already share the views, I'd give these Libertarian guys another look.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 23, 2016, 11:21:07 PM
I think when an appointee to anything by the Cheney administration -which tends to make one a grease-truck driver on the face of it- starts comparing you to Hitler and saying "slippery slope", you'd better go have a good long look in a full-length mirror...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 24, 2016, 01:37:52 AM
Well, I'm sure that the egomaniac looks in the mirror, but obviously he doesn't see Cheetos colored skin with a ridiculous comb-over&around, or ties made with 3rd world labor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 24, 2016, 02:38:41 AM
Or hear himself saying "Class" and "Classy" with a meaning that's rather the opposite of what I understand it to mean - he uses the trashy-northern-urban-mobster definition that means loud/gaudy ostentation, which is, in fact, utterly without class, if not embarrassed for funding.  Money can't buy class, something he's spent a lifetime trying to do and claiming louder and more often than imaginable that he already had.

Nossir; he don't get it at all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 24, 2016, 04:22:52 AM
[fuddle-duddle] I hope he wins.   ;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 24, 2016, 04:50:26 AM
-tops-clinton-both-seen-as-deeply-flawed-candidates.html]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/18/fox-news-poll-[Sleezebag]-tops-clinton-both-seen-as-deeply-flawed-candidates.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/18/fox-news-poll-[Sleezebag)

"Fox News Poll

Fox News Poll: [Sleezebag] tops Clinton, both seen as deeply flawed candidates



Dana Blanton

By  Dana Blanton 
 ·Published May 18, 2016
· FoxNews.com
 Donald [Sleezebag] tops Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical head-to-head matchup, according to a new Fox News Poll that also finds majorities of voters feel both frontrunners lack strong moral values and will say anything to get elected.

[Sleezebag] has a 45-42 percent edge over Clinton, if the presidential election were held today.  That’s within the poll’s margin of sampling error.  Last month, Clinton was up by 48-41 percent (April 2016).



 

Clinton is ahead by 14 points among women (50-36 percent).  Yet [Sleezebag] leads by a larger 22 points among men (55-33 percent).

He also tops Clinton by 37 points (61-24 percent) among whites without a college degree (working-class whites).

CLICK HERE TO READ THE POLL RESULTS

Overall, [Sleezebag] is preferred by 24 points among whites (55-31 percent).  He’s even ahead by nine among white women (47-38 percent).


[The site is being cut&paste resistant. ]

Pollpourri

What about former Republican governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson, who is favored to top the Libertarian Party ticket?  He ran in 2012 and received almost one percent of the vote nationally."

*************
I give up! Despite what Op-Ed pieces from Huffington and National Review say about the Libertarian Effect, this poll says-

[Sleezebag] 42%
Hillary 39%
Johnson 10%

People hardly know who Johnson is at this stage. That's a descent showing for a third party guy who hasn't secured his nomination as yet.

The FOX page is interesting for what it says about the negatives of the two Republicrats. overall they lack honesty, empathy, integrity, moral conviction, and will say anything to win, etc.
Clinton wins most corrupt 49-37, but otherwise they're amazingly competitive in their unpopular qualities.



 


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 24, 2016, 04:54:54 AM
[fuddle-duddle] I hope he wins.   ;lol

Yeah, then the joke will be on us. Don't laugh too loud, though. He's a vindictive SOB, maybe he'll be a vindictive SOB with nukes.

Darn. I just realized I want to play against him and Hillary in Civ VI !
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 24, 2016, 03:52:55 PM

T rump 42%
Hillary 39%
Johnson 10%

People hardly know who Johnson is at this stage. That's a descent showing for a third party guy who hasn't secured his nomination as yet.


That's more a poll of who will vote for ANYONE but Hillary/[Sleezebag].  Little to do with who the third name is. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 24, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
And it's a Fox poll as reported by Fox.  There's billions of ways to rig a poll and skew the reporting of the results w/o even trying or being deliberately dishonest.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 24, 2016, 04:05:45 PM
[fuddle-duddle] I hope he wins.   ;lol

What can you tell us of immigration policies down there? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Oerdin on May 24, 2016, 05:15:03 PM
And it's a Fox poll as reported by Fox.  There's billions of ways to rig a poll and skew the reporting of the results w/o even trying or being deliberately dishonest.

What he said.   Fox and Rasmussen routinely use push polling to distort their poll results to favor the side they like.   538 has done some great statistical analysis about which polling compa ies have the most accurate track records and which produce outlayers and Fox just doesn't have a good methodology (and that is probably intentional).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 24, 2016, 05:44:44 PM
...My degree's actually in broadcasting and I've worked in pro print journalism, and Fox News is an interesting case, not for its open bias but for its deep roots in infotainment trash TV...  In short, the technical production values are excellent, and the pseudo-journalism roots in Murdock's trash empire like A Current Affair inform the crapulence of the channel as deeply as its political side-taking, if not more.  Nobody talks much about the trashy stupid of it when they're bitching about the overt slant...

Murdock is directly the Father of what Rusty calls "post-journalism politics" that we are now living in fear of.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 24, 2016, 07:39:52 PM
And it's a Fox poll as reported by Fox.  There's billions of ways to rig a poll and skew the reporting of the results w/o even trying or being deliberately dishonest.

I plead ignorance here. Yes, I know you've discredited them before, but it came across to me as  a little passionate and personal and opinionated.

Yeah, sure,  I know what push polling is, what it's for, and used to know it when I heard it, but we use nomo robo to ditch those calls, and before that we let the machine handle them, and before that I said, no thank you. I haven't dealt with one personally since near the turn of the century. I used to know the names of the prominent Democratic and Republican Party pollsters, too.

But I actually thought that FOX just hired a credible objective outside poller, much the same as the network news organizations, if for no other reason than to buy itself credibility. Surely they could afford to. Looking back at it, I guess I made this assumption because I see these polls referenced in articles from other sources, mentioned on another network, and listed alongside other polls , and averaged in with them, as if they were equally valid and impartial.

I stand corrected. Thanks Buncle and Oerdin. It's good to have people that will tell me when my fly is open, and such.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 24, 2016, 08:09:50 PM
Oh, I don't know who conducted the poll on their behalf, or anything about the methodology - just that it's Fox and they're more in the habit of whiffy dirty pool tactics than merely capable of them - and that I find the numbers themselves to look highly suspect on their own.  Don't know that your fly's down for anything but taking Fox's word for anything in the first place.

About Oerdin - he tends to talk a lot of good sense from a mostly leftish perspective about politics, and I imagine his training and practical experience in psy-ops in the eastern phase of the Second Oil Crusade is about as good as my degree and journalism experience for insights into how mass media works, better in a lot of ways.  Worth listening to even when he's wrong.

(I think I just now realized why he's the one who understood my speeches about community-building and knew the truth when he heard it, in fact - a lot of my reasoning has got that communications degree behind it, and a psy-ops guy's gonna see that clearly.)

(He also tells good service stories...)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 26, 2016, 06:45:17 AM
The Inspector General of the State Department released his report today. While her practices may have been generally consistent with those of previous Secretaries of State, going back to 1997, the security regulations were different when she took office, being more strict. She ignored them.

Yes, she handled some stuff with the highest security classification on her private e-mail or device(s), but that was classified retroactively.

We talked before about how the State Department should have found a solution for her. Well, apparently they offered her a couple of solutions, one of which was carrying a second phone, and  she refused. A second phone would have been an acceptable solution to me, at least temporarily.

Supposedly she failed to report some hacking attempts , but I'm not certain that was in this report.

So the report doesn't exactly square with her prior public statements on the subject. No laws against lying on the campaign trail.

Of course she is claiming that the Inspector General's investigation was politically motivated because it's negative. Maybe so. But I could just as easily believe that she was an unpopular boss, and that it's personal rather than political. A lot of employees get furious when the former boss tries to publicly put a spin on work history.


She could have been more forthright and less lawyerly about this all and it wouldn't have been news.... No, not really her nature.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on May 26, 2016, 07:40:48 AM
[fuddle-duddle] I hope he wins.   ;lol

What can you tell us of immigration policies down there?

Don't try to get in on a refugee boat.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 01:11:36 PM
I think yours is fair take on the emails, Rusty - congratulation on reasoning it out fairly.  It's not nothing, and grounds to question her competence and honesty, but there's nothing to make a criminal case out of.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on May 26, 2016, 05:34:10 PM
If only I could extract myself and Buster from this dystopian nightmare timeline, I would leave the electorate to what they deserve, not without regret, but without hesitation.

It Can Happen Here.

What timeline could possibly be better than a cross between 1984 and Idiocracy?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 06:17:46 PM
Can't think of a funny answer, but I'd be gettin' more lovin' there.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 26, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
So is the email stuff going to be enough to push Sanders in? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 08:05:39 PM
Heck no.  Only Republicans who already hated her and Bermie-heads likewise, care.  It's basically costing her close to zero votes - nobody's on the fence about her, though many are screwing up their faces knowing they'll have to vote for her this fall or live in Hell.

I'm wincing right now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 26, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
[[Sleezebag]-Sanders debate would be Hillary Clinton's worst nightmare

Jake Novak   | @jakejakeny
4 Hours Ago

Just when you thought the 2016 election was starting to get a little predictable, a big wrench has been thrown into the works.


A Donald [Sleezebag] vs. Bernie Sanders debate in the coming days before the June 7th California primary is getting closer to becoming a reality. If this happens, it will likely be a huge boost for Sanders, a mild aid to [Sleezebag], and -- to borrow the key buzz word of this election so far – a YUGE pain in the neck for Hillary Clinton.

For Sanders, this entire election has been a "nothing to lose" proposition. He was given no chance to even make a dent in Mrs. Clinton's inevitable coronation, er presidential nomination, by the Democrats. And as a lifetime Senate backbencher, he was not in danger of losing a chairmanship or leadership position. While it's basically impossible for Sanders to overtake Clinton in the delegate battle, the latest PPIC poll shows Sanders trails her by just two percentage points among likely California primary voters.

Needless to say, if Sanders wins this primary it will wound Mrs. Clinton greatly. And Sanders chances to do just that would rise if this debate comes off. The contest would no doubt be the most-watched event in Sanders' political life and Clinton wouldn't even be there to defend herself. For a campaign that's been suffering a number of failures lately, its refusal to debate Sanders and setting off this alternative contest vs. [Sleezebag] is perhaps the biggest failure yet. She can't even benefit from a sympathy factor if [Sleezebag] and Sanders get too nasty in attacking her in absentia, because her absence is entirely her own fault.


It's also not wise for Clinton to allow any major campaign event to occur without her participation. With many right wing and progressive voters still hoping she may be disqualified from the race if she is indicted over her State Department email scandal, this kind of "Clinton-less" event gives them a taste of what they've been praying for all year.

The only potential negative for Sanders is he's wading into waters vs. [Sleezebag] that he's not quite used to. His battle with the Clinton campaign has become nastier of late, but it's nothing compared to what Donald [Sleezebag]'s opponents have had to face over the past 10 months. Sanders can get pretty nasty himself, as many of his Senate colleagues can tell you, but even though he can fight fire with fire against [Sleezebag] it doesn't mean that's the kind of image he wants to present to undecided voters in California and nationwide.

If the debate gets so nasty that it becomes an embarrassment on the level of some of the GOP debates earlier this year, the Clinton campaign could possibly get some traction by claiming it was staying above an unnecessary nasty fray all along. Sanders, by contrast, could come off looking like the Democratic Party home wrecker the Clinton forces have been portraying him to be for last month. But Mrs. Clinton and establishment Democrats and Republicans have been acutely tone deaf about the new and rising tolerance the voters have had for nastiness in this new social media dominated world. It goes with the territory.

So what's in this for [Sleezebag]? He already has the California primary sewn up, and he seems to be getting into a groove attacking Clinton. At the same time, he's been sending almost daily encouragement to Sanders' camp with comments about how the Democratic Party primary process is rigged against him. So why would [Sleezebag] seemingly take his eye off the Clinton ball and simultaneously risk angering even the few Sanders voters who could potentially switch over to him or just stay home in the general election?

The answer is the exposure will be worth it, even for the overexposed [Sleezebag]. Right now, [Sleezebag]'s #1 best goal is to prove to as many people as possible that he's not crazy. And a relatively cordial, yet lively, debate vs. fellow firebrand Sanders would go a long way toward accomplishing that goal. And each and every moment [Sleezebag] and Sanders seem to be on the same page about Hillary Clinton's record or choreographed path to the Democratic nomination will be extremely helpful to the [Sleezebag] camp. [Sleezebag]'s winning image as an outsider can only be enhanced by a sustained national TV appearance with fellow outsider Sanders.

The only unanswered question is how the Clinton camp will be able to stay out of this debate as the publicity and excitement over it grows. "The best thing Clinton campaign Chairman John Podesta could do is call everyone's bluff and get Hillary to show up to the debate after all, eliminating [Sleezebag] from the podium. But the Clinton campaign has been about predictability for years now and no matter how disastrous the outcome, it's desperately sticking to the script.  ]

Well, that's what the queen-in-waiting gets for ditching the CA Democratic debate, claiming she's already won the nomination and she needs to concentrate on [Sleezebag]. To ignore the Bern is to ignore his supporters. She's going to reap what she sows.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 09:04:17 PM
That's he second time I've seen someone say "yuge pain" this week - and I'd venture the only thing painful about it would be getting punched because Yugoslavians don't like when you leave off the "former" prefix.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 26, 2016, 09:12:55 PM
I would kinda like to see a Sanders-T rump debate.  I've come away from all this with a lot of respect for the old man, even if I disagree with him on issues.  I'd like to see if T rump could rattle him. 


Plus, I think T rump would win vs Hillary at this point, honestly.  They're both going to go negative, and that's his ballpark. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 09:26:13 PM
I don't agree with that conclusion -everything I said all along is still against the Pig- but the rest scans perfect.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 26, 2016, 09:34:47 PM
I'd actually enjoy a full on Simpsons sticker at this point.  "I voted for Kodos" 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 09:40:00 PM
Please be patient while your request is being processed...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 26, 2016, 09:44:38 PM
Ah.  I thought I'd add a picture, and to little surprise, it's been done:

(http://www.sunshinepaintings.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/kodos.jpg)
It embiggens.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on May 26, 2016, 09:59:29 PM
I seriously need that for my yard...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 26, 2016, 10:10:45 PM
So is the email stuff going to be enough to push Sanders in?

I wish.

An FBI indictment would, but who knows if and when on that. I'll stand by an earlier opinion/generalization that as a lawyer, Hillary regularly colors outside of the lines, but she knows how much she can do it and get away with it, not going much beyond what others have frequently gotten away with. Reprimand territory.


It might change some minds in the CA primary, where the late deciders are still in play.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 26, 2016, 10:17:26 PM
Vote Kang - Kodos '96 (http://www.redbubble.com/people/fohkat/works/9341171-vote-kang-kodos-96?finish=semi_gloss&p=poster&size=small&utm_source=google&utm_medium=google_products&utm_campaign=shopping&country_code=US&gclid=CLS8hO_U-MwCFYsCaQod9lQF1w)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 28, 2016, 12:39:51 AM
Apparently [Sleezebag] is backing away from a Sanders debate. The way I figure it, even if [Sleezebag] loses, it only makes the case that Bernie, not Shillary should be Democratic nominee, sowing grief amongst his opposition.  But I don't want [Sleezebag] to become POTUS, so I probably don't have his best interests at heart. I was rather looking forward to a 2 hour bash Hillary fest.

-----------
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/27/politics/libertarian-party-convention/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/27/politics/libertarian-party-convention/)

Libertarian Party set to pick nominee at convention
By Eli Watkins, CNN


Updated 6:02 AM ET, Fri May 27, 2016

CNN-
They get the bronze medal every four years in what is really a two-person race.

That's what it must feel like to be a third-party candidate in a two-party country.

But between Donald [Sleezebag]'s abrupt takeover of the GOP and Bernie Sanders' climb from long-shot Democratic candidacy to head of a national progressive movement, 2016 has been a year for party outsiders. And Libertarians hope that could give them an opening.

What gives them hope?

The likely Democratic and Republican nominees each have historically high unfavorable numbers.

So it is with an air of opportunity to break out of obscurity that Libertarians, the country's most prominent third party, head to their national convention in Orlando, Florida this weekend to officially pick a candidate to pitch to angry voters.

Many expect former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian presidential nominee in 2012, to leave Orlando Sunday evening once again his party's standard-bearer.

Since last week, Johnson has made the rounds touting his newly-minted alliance with former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld, who is seeking the party's vice presidential nomination. The two former governors, who both also happen to be ex-Republicans, are fielding a ticket of sorts, although the Libertarians elect their nominees separately and no formal ticket will exist at the convention until the party selects its presidential and vice presidential nominees.

Johnson and Weld each face significant opposition within their party, however, and their success is not an outright guarantee.

Weld will have to overcome meaningful differences between his demonstrated policy preferences, particularly past support for gun control measures, and his willingness to support Republican politicians. Just this year, the colorful former governor endorsed Ohio Gov. John Kasich for president -- a significant transgression in a party that espouses liberal social positions and conservative economic ones.

Weld has made headlines since his entry into the race for comparing [Sleezebag]'s proposal to deport all undocumented immigrants to Kristallnacht, a 1938 pogrom remembered to this day for brutality against the Jewish people in the lead up to WWII. For his part, Johnson has said he "absolutely" stands by the bold comparison.

Johnson, meanwhile, has several serious challengers gunning for the top spot on the third-party ticket.

Among them is Austin Petersen, a young, hardcore party advocate with strong backing in Libertarian Internet circles. He recently announced the endorsement of Mary Matalin, a prominent former Republican who joined the Libertarian Party after [Sleezebag]'s ascension in the GOP, and received the endorsement of Erick Erickson, among the most vocal anti-[Sleezebag] conservatives, on Wednesday morning.

However, in a party that generally swings liberal on social issues, Petersen is unabashedly anti-abortion. He is also 35 years old.

Also expected to post significant support is notorious entrepreneur John McAfee, a man who has forged an international identity after becoming a pioneer in the field of cybersecurity. Last fall, McAfee launched a presidential bid under the banner of his newly formed political organization, the Cyber Party. As the fall continued, McAfee declared his intention to seek the nomination of the Libertarian Party.

Building off of his name, his intense personality and his sweeping command of Libertarian sweet-spots, McAfee has made a serious bid for the top-of-the-ticket.

Although McAfee has little history with the party and no experience governing, his controversies -- including going into hiding following the shooting death of a businessman near his island compound in Belize -- and lack of political experience may actually make up for it. In an election cycle dominated by a brash billionaire and reality TV star, McAfee's libidinous, shadowy, drug-fueled history and cavalier demeanor occasionally might not hurt much in a party built on opposing government control.

John McAfee still thinks 'this is the year of the third party'

The primary has become somewhat contentious and McAfee has repeatedly said that he will not support Johnson if the former New Mexico becomes the nominee.


The Libertarian nominee will appear in ballots in 50 states, but...

Of course, securing the nomination is only one step -- and an extremely easy one, relatively speaking -- on the path to a Libertarian presidency.

The eventual nominee, whoever it is, will have to compete in the general election, where the odds of victory for the Libertarian Party stand at roughly zero.

As the Libertarian nominee in 2012, Johnson netted .99% of the popular vote, a figure that stands as the party's second strongest showing ever. He fared worse in the Electoral College, translating his support in the popular vote to a total of zero electoral votes.

If that performance repeats itself in the 2016 general election, it will mark the 12th cycle in a row where no third party has earned a single vote in the Electoral College.

Compared to other years and other third parties however, the Libertarians have plenty to feel good about. The Libertarian Party has navigated the multitude of onerous requirements for ballot access in all 50 states, a task unaccomplished by any other third party.

Put more simply, the Libertarian nominee will be the only name outside of the mainstream choices on the presidential ballot in all 50 states on November 8.


On the ballot, but not the debate stage

Johnson, echoing many other third-party candidates, regularly stresses the Libertarian Party's need to join the presidential debates. Inclusion in the presidential debates requires strong poll performance, which of course, requires inclusion in the polls themselves.

There is some reason to expect the Libertarian Party might outperform expectations should its nominee become a regular point in poll surveys this year. A recent national poll showed Johnson receiving 10 percent support among registered voters.

From the "Never [Sleezebag]" crowd to the nascent "Bernie or bust" movement, the eventual Libertarian nominee might have room to grow a base and shakeup the already volatile presidential race.


----------------------

So Mary Matalin has endorsed Petersen. Well, Petersen is probably the purest Libertarian among those three frontrunners. He's a media guy, and pretty articulate. The trouble as I see it is 1) I don't think he's qualified to run the federal government, and 2) his experience was gained at FOX News, although he has since formed his own media company. Perhaps he was disillusioned with FOX and that's why he left, OR maybe he learned some lessons and thought to apply them to a different political party and make himself rich. 3) He's only 35 years old. Not wise enough for the toughest job in the world, if you ask me.

It think a qualified outsider should do better with alienated voters than an unqualified one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 28, 2016, 01:41:43 AM
Sounds like she did it all for Petersen - I guess the money's green, and she only has to make a good showing and not worry about winning; sweet gig when you look at it that way.

Maybe hitch to a young guy and groom, groom, groom - the smart play when he loses would be to find a state he could be governor of, not make the Perot mistake...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 28, 2016, 02:25:32 AM
Okay, I guess Petersen was a producer for  FOX Business.

--------------------------

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/watch-libertarian-convention/story?id=39423394 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/watch-libertarian-convention/story?id=39423394)

While Donald [Sleezebag] indulges in fries and a big Mac to celebrate beating 16 Republican candidates and effectively winning his party’s nomination, another party is huddling to plan a new threat.

Over Memorial Day weekend, the Libertarian Party will be holding its convention in Orlando to put forth its presidential and vice presidential candidates. The party has largely been ignored in previous cycles, but party leaders are hoping that this year might be different.

Libertarians are trying to appeal to voters disenchanted with the prospect of a [Sleezebag] or Hillary Clinton presidency. The party is banking on the fact that [Sleezebag] and Clinton have the highest unfavorability ratings of any candidate -- on either side of the aisle -- in recent history.

“We are seeing record interest in the party,” the national Libertarian Party’s political director, Carla Howell, recently told Politico Magazine. “Membership has spiked; it has gone up about 30 percent in the last few months. We’re also seeing record media interest."

What is the Libertarian Party?
"Libertarian” is defined as “a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action," according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

The Libertarian Party tends to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. It vehemently opposes any government intervention in citizens’ private and business decisions (the party’s current front-runner, for instance, supports abortion rights and legalizing drugs).

“Essentially, we believe all Americans should be free to live their lives and pursue their interests as they see fit as long as they do no harm to another. In a nutshell, we are advocates for a smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom,” the party says on its website.

The Orlando convention will be themed “Legalize Freedom.”

The party was first formed 45 years ago. Prominent Libertarians include Rand Paul and his father Ron Paul, who both ran as Republican presidential candidates, as well as David Koch, the billionaire political activist (Koch ran as Libertarian vice president in 1980)

How Have They Done In The Past?
In 2012, Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson earned almost 1.3 million votes – the most votes a Libertarian nominee has ever garnered. Still, it only amounted for 0.99 percent of the total popular vote, and the party was far from winning any electoral votes.

The party reached more than 1 percent of the popular vote just once in its history when Ed Clark headlined the Libertarian ticket in 1980.

Alaska has been the best state for Libertarians in the past, according to an analysis from the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics. Libertarians also average over 1 percent of support in Montana, Arizona and Wyoming.


Could They Do Better This Year?
Some Libertarians hope that this could be a breakthrough year for the party, usually reduced to a footnote in the overarching narrative of the general election.

Libertarians want their eventual nominee to receive at least 15 percent support in national polls so that he or she can debate the presumptive GOP and Democratic nominees.

A Fox News poll in mid-May shows Johnson garnering 10 percent support in a race against [Sleezebag] and Clinton. A Monmouth poll in March showed Johnson hitting 11 percent support.

That might be enough for the Libertarian Party to become a spoiler.

The party has also been working hard to ensure its candidate is listed on every state’s ballot — so far, the party has made it to 32 states and is confident it can reach its goal.

Who’s Running For Their Nomination?
There are a total of 12 candidates running to win the Libertarian Party’s nomination.

Former two-term New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson is currently expected to clinch the nomination (Johnson was also the nominee in 2012).

Other viable candidates include millionaire software entrepreneur John McAfee, who fled Belize after he was cited as a “person of interest” in the murder of his neighbor, and Austin Peterson, former Fox Business producer and Libertarian activist.

Johnson recently announced he would want former Republican Massachusetts Gov. William Weld as his vice president. Weld might help make a Libertarian ticket more attractive to Democrats — in 1997, Bill Clinton nominated him as ambassador to Mexico (the nomination was eventually blocked). He also wound up supporting President Obama in 2008, though he has since said he regretted it.

Weld has been very outspoken in his criticism of [Sleezebag].

“I can hear the glass crunching on Kristallnacht in the ghettos of Warsaw and Vienna when I hear that, honest,” he told The New York Times, blasting [Sleezebag]’s policy to round up and deport undocumented immigrants.

The party's convention will feature a vice presidential and presidential debate. Presidential candidates have already debated each other three times.

Party operatives have shot down speculation that a dark horse candidate like Mitt Romney might try to win the party’s nomination. It is possible, but highly unlikely, they’ve said.


----------------------------------

Romney suggested the Constitutionalist Party, which is basically a party of Cruz style Theocons.
Ban abortion, gay marriage, and get closer to Israel in order to get closer to God is their agenda.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 28, 2016, 07:36:59 PM
It's no Nuremburg, but it's a start!

-attempting-book-cleveland-browns-stadium-nomination-acceptance-speech/]http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/05/28/[Sleezebag]-attempting-book-cleveland-browns-stadium-nomination-acceptance-speech/ (http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/05/28/[Sleezebag)

[[Sleezebag] Attempting to Book Cleveland Browns’ Stadium for Nomination Acceptance Speech
By: Leon H. Wolf (Diary)  |  May 28th, 2016 at 01:00 PM

Well, here’s yet another thing that many people criticized Obama for doing but will doubtless call [Sleezebag] a genius for doing the exact same thing. [Sleezebag] feels that his acceptance speech for the nomination should be a much bigger deal than a typical convention hall speech. So he is going to try to book the Cleveland Browns’ stadium for his speech.

Donald [Sleezebag]’s campaign is considering booking one of Cleveland’s big sports venues for his acceptance speech in July, two GOP sources familiar with the planning of the upcoming GOP convention say.

The sources said First Energy Stadium, home of the Cleveland Browns, and Progressive Field, home of the city’s Indians baseball team, are the two sights under consideration for [Sleezebag]’s acceptance speech on the final night of the convention.

One of the sources said the campaign is closing in on signing a contract for use of one of the two venues, with the football stadium currently the favorite for [Sleezebag]’s speech.

Beyond the similarities between the [Sleezebag] campaign and the plight of Cleveland’s sports teams, even CNN was forced to note that [Sleezebag]’s first endorser once mocked Barack Obama for doing exactly the same thing:


Then-Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin mocked the Greek columns placed behind Obama during the speech as a sign of the Democratic contender’s celebrity candidacy.

“When the cloud of rhetoric has passed, when the roar of the crowd fades away, when the stadium lights go out and those styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot, what exactly is our opponent’s plan?” Palin, a key [Sleezebag] surrogate, said at her convention speech in 2008.

One of the things this election has nicely illustrated is that some people’s critical thought processes never bother to go a single step farther than “Republican good, Democrat bad.”

-----------------

Meanwhile, while Gary Johnson may be the Frontrunner at the Libertarian Convention, attendees are not thrilled with his announcement of former gov. Wm Weld as a running mate. 1) He once pledged to continue his campaign for gov. of NY as a Libertarian whether or not he also got the GOP nomination. The GOP asked him to drop out, and he did. What was the issue? It would have established The Libertarians as a party in NY, making it much easier for them to field candidates candidates for all offices. So he's seen as an opportunistic politician and a traitor. 2) The convention is supposed to decide the VP.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 28, 2016, 09:58:21 PM
If not Wm. Weld as VP for the Libertarian Party, then who?
Alicia Dearn is a prominent contender. I will only post the introduction here and first question here, because it's a long article.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/get-to-know-alicia-dearn-vp-candidate-for-the-libertarian-party/ (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/get-to-know-alicia-dearn-vp-candidate-for-the-libertarian-party/)
Get to Know Alicia Dearn, A Vice Presidential Candidate for the Libertarian Party
By Avens O’Brien

I had an opportunity this month to talk to Alicia Dearn about her candidacy to be the Vice Presidential nominee for the Libertarian Party. She is one of several candidates running for the spot on the LP ticket, and one of just a couple not specifically attached to a presidential candidate. I was interested in speaking to her to get her perspective on the race, Libertarianism, and why she thinks she’d be a good VP choice for any of the party’s contenders.

You can view her performance in a recent VP debate at the bottom of this piece.

Alicia Dearn is a 37 year old entrepreneur from Missouri, who has been interested in Libertarianism since high school, and registered Libertarian at the age of 18, but she became active in the party in 2012 after a collection of life experiences led her to really want to promote Libertarianism.

By 2012, she’d already been a successful trial lawyer, a successful (“and a failed” – her words) entrepreneur, a world traveler, the spouse of an immigrant, a government employee, a victim of the banking collapse, and a military veteran and military wife. But in 2011 she was hit with a serious illness, experiencing the “healthcare nightmare” in person, and forming strong oppositional opinions in regards to Obamacare.

At that point, in December of 2011, she realized she wanted to do something to promote Libertarianism, something she describes as “the best and only moral answer to worsening economic conditions”. She volunteered for Governor Gary Johnson’s campaign, starting as Missouri State Director, was promoted to Midwest Regional Director, and finally was promoted to General Counsel.

In her roles with the campaign (particularly as General Counsel), she fought for ballot access and debate equality. It illuminated the corruption of the two party system.


“Now the Libertarian party isn’t just my party of choice. It is the only choice. I would rather not vote than vote non-Libertarian.” – Alicia Dearn

She decided to run as a Vice Presidential candidate because she feels she can add something to a Libertarian ticket, accompanying any of the presidential contenders with added diversity: not just as a woman, but as a lawyer, as someone deeply connected the military, and experienced with small businesses. She’s a good communicator of Libertarian values and solutions to the general public.

Here’s our interview:

AO: I’ve already run through your qualifications, but just personally, why run for Vice President?

AD: I’m not running for VP because I have a burning “will to power.” Rather, I care about what is best for the ticket, the party, and, ultimately, the country. What is best for all three is someone who can present well to the public, promote our policies, recruit to the party, and, articulate the real world impact of a massive Federal government. People are hurting. Liberty is the answer.


Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/get-to-know-alicia-dearn-vp-candidate-for-the-libertarian-party/#ixzz49zBjlqeO (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/get-to-know-alicia-dearn-vp-candidate-for-the-libertarian-party/#ixzz49zBjlqeO)
Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on Twitter







Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 07:25:16 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gary-johnson-wins-libertarian-nomination-president/story?id=39462969 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gary-johnson-wins-libertarian-nomination-president/story?id=39462969)

OOps! posted too soon, Details to follow.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 29, 2016, 07:29:25 PM
What's the story with Wiggy, BTW, if anyone knows?  I get the joke with the grumpy rage stylings, but he's a DL or something, and I sense there's a key common-knowledge fact I'm not privy to...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 07:31:43 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gary-johnson-wins-libertarian-nomination-president/story?id=39462969 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gary-johnson-wins-libertarian-nomination-president/story?id=39462969)

Gary Johnson Wins Libertarian Nomination for President
By RYAN STRUYK and INES DE LA CUETARA

 ORLANDO, Fla. — May 29, 2016, 1:03 PM ET

Former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson has won the Libertarian nomination for president.

Hoping to emerge as a viable contender against the two major parties' nominees in the general election, Johnson says he aims to tap into voters' broad reluctance to fall in line behind Donald [Sleezebag] and Hillary Clinton.

But Johnson needed to fend off challengers from more extreme wings of his party, originally falling five votes short of winning the 463 delegates needed for the nomination on the first ballot at the party's national convention. Delegates voted a second time, giving Johnson the majority he needed (55.8 percent).

Johnson defeated five hopefuls to secure his place on top of the Libertarian ticket, which will likely be the only third party on the ballot in all 50 states.

Delegates have yet to vote on Johnson's hand-picked vice presidential pick, former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld. Many Libertarians here are wary of Weld, who joined the party less than two weeks ago and endorsed Ohio Gov. John Kasich in the Republican primary earlier this election cycle.

Unlike the primary and caucus system used by the Republican and Democratic parties, Libertarian presidential candidates have spent much of the past week debating and wooing delegates, who were free to vote for whomever they choose at the party's national convention.

The Libertarian Party faces an uphill climb to become viable in the general election. A recent Fox News poll shows Johnson at 10 percent in a race against [Sleezebag] and Clinton, although polling tends to overstate the support of third party candidates.

Johnson was also the party's nominee in 2012, when he received 1 percent of the popular vote and became the first Libertarian presidential candidate to receive more than 1 million votes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 08:06:39 PM
I don't know. It was like you were speaking another language.

Google tells me that Wiglaf is a character from Beowulf ( which I haven't read since 1975, and I'm bad with names). It also references him as a force of creative destruction. There's a Wiglaf Journal about creative destruction.

Whether that's intended as a slam on Johnson or praise, I don't know.

Reading convention news, Johnson isn't pure enough for all of the delegates. They don't think he can stand up to [Sleezebag], they are mad about Weld, and they don't think he's been a good enough spokesperson.


But, they did choose Johnson over Austin Petersen, ( the guy formerly with FOX, who Matalin endorsed ) so that means they may be more practical than idealistic after all. After all, as a two term governor, Johnson has more experience than [Sleezebag] and Hillary put together. He's somebody that people might actually vote for, or at least use him to vote against both [Sleezebag] and Hillary at the same time, as my wife probably will.

Back to my reading.  They choose the VP tomorrow. Johnson wants Weld, because he has contacts and is a good fundraiser, and Johnson thinks that sucks. Johnson admires Weld, because they are both fiscal conservatives, and Weld championed gay rights before the Democrats did. He also has more foreign policy experience.  It would also make the ticket 2 two-term Republican Governors of Blue states, one western, one eastern.

On the other hand anything can happen. There's a sizable Never Weld faction, because he's seen as a carpetbagger rather than a true Libertarian. They might go with a woman, a black, or a Jew, or maybe one of the runner-ups for President.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 29, 2016, 08:36:54 PM
I didn't slap that bumper sticker together on the spot - just a generic-sounding name for running mate as part of the joke.  -Wiglaf is hard to explain - he posts rants about games, mostly, at Poly, heaping abuse on whomever -sometimes I get the jokes, sometimes I haven't been around long enough to get, sometimes the jokes are actually funny.  You kinda have to have been there.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 09:28:40 PM
Oh, Mark Allan Feldman is a Jewish Doctor who ran against Johnson. His method of getting his points across is to rap, actually Johnson asked that he be included in last night's final debate. Maybe he was trying to lighten things up-

"Libertarians are fresh and dope.
We don't care who you marry, what you carry, or what you smoke.
So give a Libertarian your vote."

Or maybe Johnson was just trying to distract from the screwball questions they asked, that seemed to be openings to express philosophical purity, or a chance to demonstrate foolishness, like "should there be driver's licenses?"  That's my biggest issue with the convention. They know they are drawing unprecedented attention. They could have submitted questions that sounded more serious and relevant whether than 'Would you have supported WWI, WWII, The Civil Rights Act?"

A more interesting question, which came up in one of the VP debates was something like "Who did more harm to Liberty, George W. Bush, or Barrack Obama?" I guess personally I'd come down against Iraq II, Patriot Act , War on Terrer, Homeland Dept, Gitmo, and fiscal irresponsibility vs, double the national debt, drone killings, Affordable Care, executive orders, budgetless operation, and Gitmo......but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 29, 2016, 09:35:28 PM
Bakrama sucks SO hard, but you've got to be kidding even so.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 09:59:35 PM
I'm of the opinion that it takes a lot of time &/or distance to gain perspective on a president. It's hard to know what lasting good or harm was done while they are still in office.

But that was one question that at least makes you think "What have they done?"   

Well, I didn't even touch on The Great Recession, because then I just start blaming everybody for one thing or another, and it's an extensive list.

But I generally come down on the Bush/Cheney administration as being  mean and wrong, and Obama as being unqualified, and learning on the job.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 10:05:20 PM
http://www.advocate.com/election/2016/5/28/rachel-maddow-reveals-why-bernie-sanders-wants-barney-frank-dnc-committees-video (http://www.advocate.com/election/2016/5/28/rachel-maddow-reveals-why-bernie-sanders-wants-barney-frank-dnc-committees-video)

Connecticut Governor Dannel Malloy and former congressman Barney Frank will retain their high-ranking positions on the Democratic National Committee, the Party confirmed Saturday, according to The Hill.

The decision comes just one day after attorneys for the presidential campaign of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders issued a scathing letter to DNC officials launching a formal credentials challenge against Frank (who co-chairs the party’s Standing Rules Committee), also demanding that Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy be removed from his position on the DNC’s Standing Platform Committee.

As out MSNBC anchor Rachel Maddow reported Friday, the Sanders campaign sent its letter to DNC officials that evening, warning that Frank and Malloy were "self-proclaimed partisans intent on marginalizing [Sanders] supporters.

“The lawyers for the Sanders campaign said… They’re demanding that both Governor Malloy and Mr. Frank be disqualified from their respective positions with the Standing Platform and Rules Committees,” Maddow explained.

“The Sanders Campaign then ends this letter with a threat,” noted Maddow. “If the Committee doesn't kick Gov. Malloy and Barney Frank out of those leadership positions the Sanders campaign will essentially grind the process of the convention to a halt. … They will gum up the works so nothing happens.”

Maddow noted that she initially thought the Sanders campaign was threatening to sue the Democratic Party, but then clarifies that “what they’re threatening to do is to bring the Democratic convention to a halt unless Barney Frank and Dannel Malloy get replaced.”

While the MSNBC anchor explained the potential consequences if the demands made by the Sanders campaign are met, she neglected to dig into the justifications Sanders's attorneys provided for making such demands.

Western Massachussetts paper The Republican reports that the Sanders campaign is “looking to force a contested convention,” and blasting Frank and Malloy as “aggressive attack surrogates” for the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Former Rep. Frank, the first member of Congress to voluntarily come out as gay, has made no secret of his “animosity towards Senator Sanders,” alleges the letter. It points to a 1991 spat between the two congressmen, where Frank accused Sanders of “unduly [denigrating] the institution [of Congress] and a lot of the members.”

“After Senator Sanders won the New Hampshire Democratic presidential primaries in February, Mr. Frank wrote an opinion piece in which he professed his ‘resentment’ toward the Senator,” the letter continues. “And Mr. Frank’s invective against Senator Sanders has only intensified as Senator Sanders has notched additional primary victories.”

The Connecticut governor, on the other hand, has lambasted Sanders for his opposition to a federal gun control bill, and has a long history of openly supporting Clinton’s campaign, argues the letter. It dismisses Malloy, the co-chair of the DNC Standing Platform committee, as an “incendiary critic” of Sanders.

"The appointment of two individuals so outspokenly critical of Sen. Sanders, and so closely affiliated with Secretary Clinton's campaign, raises concerns that two of the three Convention Standing Committees are being constituted in an overtly partisan way designed to exclude meaningful input from supporters of Sen. Sanders' candidacy," the letter concludes.

At press time, the Sanders campaign had not responded to the DNC's dismissal of its request.

Watch Maddow break the news of the Sanders campaign letter on her eponymous MSNBC show below, with the relevant discussion beginning at the 5:30 mark.

----------------------------------

Maybe the DNC will be worth watching this year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 29, 2016, 10:21:33 PM
Maddow is a political thinker always worth listening to -tries really hard to be fair- but her biases are there on her sleeve to be taken into account.  No idea who she's rooting for - it could go either way, the woman v the actual progressive.

I can totally see Bernie playing hardball - but gumming up the works on purpose wouldn't be like him.  But pushing his agenda would.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 11:36:55 PM
As for the Libertarian VP process, the efforts were made to open up the VP debate and nomination process to others ( failed presidential candidates/ runners up ) . It failed.

The field has thinned- These are the qualifiers.

Gov. William Weld – 192 votes ( Johnson's choice. )

Larry Sharpe - 161  ( He has been jabbing at Johnson for endorsing Weld and for a lack of philosophical purity )

Alicia Dearn – 104  ( She's a champion of the cause, and willing to work with anyone. Apparently she took the elephant by the horns in a move that some se as a sellout. A comment from her facebook "Your choice to bring Weld onstage and demand point-blank that he swear his allegiance... had me speechless. You rock!"   Austin Petersen has also endorsed her.

Will Coley – 61 (A white Muslim academic, maybe too far out of the main stream for today's America)

Judd Weiss – 46 ( Who said he'd only run with McAfee. McAfee has now endorsed  Dearn. )

Derrick Grayson – 33

When Balloting begins, it will follow the same process as for President. They are seeking a majority of the aprox. 800 votes. If there is no majority, the lowest vote getter will be dropped and they will vote again, etc.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 11:45:14 PM
She's jumping the gun here. Weld's not a done deal. But this OpEd was too good to pass up in terms of my sig line.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/23/other-than-the-libertarian-partys-vp-candidate-wholl-defend-the-constitution/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/23/other-than-the-libertarian-partys-vp-candidate-wholl-defend-the-constitution/)

[Other than the Libertarian Party’s VP candidate, who’ll defend the Constitution?
 By Jennifer Rubin May 23

Only one vice-presidential candidate has been selected for the 2016 presidential race, former Massachusetts governor William Weld, who has been tapped by Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson, the former governor of New Mexico. Weld made headlines analogizing Donald [Sleezebag]’s proposed roundup of illegal immigrants to the beginnings of the Holocaust (at the 3:14 mark):

Holocaust allusions should be used sparingly and, to quote Melania [Sleezebag], Donald [Sleezebag] is “not Hitler.” That said, it’s not inappropriate to sound the alarm about a mass roundup of suspected illegal immigrants, the civil liberties that would be trampled upon in conducting such a sweep and the mass hysteria that [Sleezebag] is whipping up in demonizing illegal immigrants as “killers” and “rapists.” When a presidential candidate talks favorably of the infamous roundup of Americans of Japanese descent during World War II, Americans regardless of party should be outraged.

Unfortunately, in the Republican primary too many [Sleezebag] opponents — including his final competitor, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) — were chasing after [Sleezebag]’s extremism on immigration. They therefore were frightened to criticize him loudly, consistently and unsparingly for his egregious comments and unconstitutional proposals. [Sleezebag] simply outplayed them in stirring up xenophobia; they, in turn, were ill prepared to condemn a plan that any self-described constitutional conservative should recognize as beyond the pale.

Weld’s comment reminds us how deficient the presidential debate will be without a robust voice from either major party to defend limits on executive authority and all provisions of the Bill of Rights. [Sleezebag] now slavishly embraces the Second Amendment for the sake of the endorsement of the National Rifle Association (which, like many conservative groups, suffers from amnesia and low standards in accepting a candidate so long as he delivers a few canned lines). In the case of a roundup of suspected illegal immigrants we are looking at potentially wholesale violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. (Would any of the judges on [Sleezebag]’s list approve a mass dragnet?)

On many issues, such as the First Amendment, both Hillary Clinton and [Sleezebag] are eager to curb political speech, either by constitutional amendment or statutory gambit to reverse Citizens United. [Sleezebag] would go beyond what any politician since the Alien and Sedition Acts has advocated in wanting to deport millions of illegal immigrants, ban Muslims and “open up” libel laws to go after critics.

Admiring their handiwork in shoving a list of agreeable judges under [Sleezebag]’s nose, self-described conservative “scholars” turn a blind eye to the raft of undemocratic and unconstitutional measures [Sleezebag] has championed on everything from ordering the military to commit war crimes to “shutting down” parts of the Internet. As Bruce Fein recalls:


Among other things, Mr. [Sleezebag] has taken up arms against the Eighth Amendment prohibition of torture, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment requirements of due process, the First Amendment’s protection of religious freedom, the Article VI prohibition of religious test oaths, the Article I, section 8, clause 11 proscriptions of presidential wars, and the War Crimes Act of 1996 that implements international law.

But candidate Mr. [Sleezebag] reserves his nuclear arsenal for freedom of speech. He would close down the Internet because some evil people might be influenced by its content to commit terrorism. . . . Mr. [Sleezebag] sneers at defenders of free speech as “foolish people.”

[Sleezebag] is the person members of the conservative Federalist Society (reportedly) are enabling? (One would think the lawyers involved would be bursting with pride and eager to claim authorship, yet they remain anonymous helpers for a man who shares none of their devotion to the Constitution.)

In throwing its lot in with [Sleezebag] and abandoning defense of constitutional limits and democratic principles, the GOP abandons of one of its historic roles in restraining government and protecting individual rights. (It did give us the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, right?). It is regrettable that the GOP is leaving it to the Libertarian Party to now to defend the Constitution.

Weld is an able former attorney and admirable in his willingness to speak out against [Sleezebag], but at least one of the major parties needs to be a stickler for constitutional governance. Those conservatives who squawk about Democrats’ disregard for constitutional principles but support [Sleezebag] have lost the constitutional high ground. (In comparison with [Sleezebag], Clinton seems like Antonin Scalia.)

Rather than enabling [Sleezebag] and trying to convince fellow Americans that [Sleezebag] can be pinned down on judicial selection or can develop even a rudimentary understanding of the Constitution, maybe these Republicans should look for an alternative center-right candidate who would take it to both major parties’ nominees when they seek to trample on this or that constitutional provision. Shilling for [Sleezebag] — hoping he’ll maybe, possibly, once in a while act within constitutional strictures — is foolhardy and dangerous. Conservatives who care about the Constitution should refuse to do so and should call out those who are trying to pull the wool over the voters’ eyes. ]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 29, 2016, 11:57:07 PM
Weld won.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 30, 2016, 12:06:16 AM
Keep up the Libertarian reporting. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 03:14:10 AM
Well, the convention is essentially over, and everybody is probably on their way to dinner, or the airport, or Disney.  Or maybe they went to see what MegaCon was all about.

They adopted the platform, which called for abolition of the death penalty.

They chose the frontrunner Gary Johnson, and accepted his choice for VP Bill Weld. The two most pragmatic and least idealistic in the fields. Johnson said he couldn't win without Weld, because Weld has media connections, was a fundraiser for Romney, and has raised a quarter $Billion in his career. Johnson is a millionaire, but his campaign isn't flush with funds.

I suspect the defining moment was Alicia Dearn's calling Weld out, and he stepped up and  pledged to be a Libertarian for the rest of his life.

I think that's important that they have a ticket that could govern if elected. Johnson had more spending vetoes than all of the other governors combined in his time, his state was #1 in job growth, and he advocated marijuana reform long before there were 24 states & the District of Colombia which legalized it for medical and/or recreational use. Weld championed gay marriage decades before the Democratic Party. Weld also left office with a smaller budget in real dollars than when he was elected.  Both of them were Republicans in Blue states, so they know about being tough on spending and about what it takes to accomplish something.

People like to know that their vote isn't a throw away.

Johnson and Weld are on their way to New York to start getting media exposure. Basically last time nobody knew who he was. The plan is to get exposure, and argue for inclusion in the polls. As it is, they need to poll 15% to get included on the debate stage, which is impossible if they aren't listed.

Some convention attendees wanted a more exciting candidate. What he lacks in charisma he makes up for in honesty, which should shine next to Hillary and her donor.

Meanwhile, the guy who founded the Cato Institute is thinking about firing up his PAC. I think he was hoping for Rand Paul this year. Still talk of the Koch brothers contributing, although it's to the party rather than to Johnson.

Well this year, anything could happen, and already has. At present we have a socialist, a reality TV star, and the wife of a president who was impeached & acquitted for lying to a Grand Jury. Could a two term governor from the sun belt really be an outlier in such an election?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 30, 2016, 03:16:42 AM
No, you make him sound excellent, and I think a lot of your judgment.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 04:20:39 AM
From Alicia Dearn for VP Facebook


[Alicia Dearn for Vice President

4 hrs ·
..

Now that the vote is completed, I wish to explain myself.

I learned that the poll companies (and perhaps CPD) stated that they wouldn't include libertarians without Weld. They've agreed to include us if he's the pick. No Weld, and we get shut out again.

I learned this over the lunch recess while I was preparing for my speech. It was a really good one too.

The GJ campaign didn't ask me to quit or tell me that. I got that message directly from someone outside the party.

We can't fight for Liberty with our hands tied behind our backs. So I asked Weld to swear to me that he wouldn't screw us. And he did. He seemed sincere. I said real libertarians need a seat at the table and I got his, Gary's and Ron's word that we would not be shut out and that our principles would be protected.

I did it so that we can have ballot access and make gains for all down line libertarians.

It was force by non-libertarians but I took it so we can stop force and oppression going forward.

It was awful. I'm not bullish on Weld and I was honest about that. But we need to advance for the sake of liberty and the sake of our country.]

--------------
That's the thing. A real showing nationally makes ballot access so much easier everywhere. Alicia has been doing work as a lawyer with ballot access, and as a candidate trying to get poll recognition for the party.  In fact, she wrote off over $150K for ballot access work for Johnson in 2012.

She's taking some heat as a sell-out. Right now she's the Libertarian I most admire.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 30, 2016, 04:23:06 AM
Go!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 06:13:01 AM
https://www.facebook.com/Alicia-Dearn-for-Vice-President-1063437850384191/ (https://www.facebook.com/Alicia-Dearn-for-Vice-President-1063437850384191/)

She has a couple of videos that are worth watching, on the left, below her photos.
They speak to me like Reagan's Morning in America spoke to others, back in the day.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 11:30:25 PM
NeoCon Bill Krystol, editor of The Weekly Standard announced Sunday that there would be an independent presidential candidate. Among those who haven't publicly refused him are Mitt Romney, Marco Rubio, and Tom Cotton, at 39, the youngest US Senator. Cotton has held that seat since 2015, and his prior qualifications amount to one term in The House.

The GOP has already condemned this. Of course, if the GOP were a carcass, I would have already stamped it "CONDEMNED".  When a party purges itself for ideological purity to the point that it is so small it can suffer a hostile takeover by an opposition party donor, it's doomed to defeat.

You can thank yourself for that, Bill!

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/05/29/bill-kristol-will-independent-candidate/ (http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/05/29/bill-kristol-will-independent-candidate/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 11:40:48 PM
Dearn is taking a lot of heat on facebook, and has closed comments.

This would have been mine today-



FORBES Quote of the Day


“I think that the good and the great are only separated by the willingness to sacrifice.”

- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 30, 2016, 11:58:53 PM
 

“Well really, Libertarians kind of represent the best of both parties, at least what the parties are supposed to be about,” Johnson said. “Are Republicans supposed to be about small government? Aren’t Democrats supposed to be about civil liberties? People being able to make choices in their own lives as long as those choices don’t affect others.”

----------------------------
Actually more names were floated for the Independent candidate, including Paul Ryan ( which is ridiculous) Condoleezza  Rice,  New Mexico Governor Susanna Martinez, Nebraska Senator Ben Sasse.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 31, 2016, 12:05:49 AM
;b; Respect! ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 12:45:03 AM
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/jesse-ventura-im-not-running-for-president-because-im-afraid-i-might-win/ (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/jesse-ventura-im-not-running-for-president-because-im-afraid-i-might-win/)

Not that he would necessarily expect to win. He would love to campaign against Clinton/[Sleezebag], and he knows what a burden it would be to become president. He doesn't want that kind of responsibility/loss of freedom.He really hopes that they both lose. He thinks the country is FUBAR.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 06:12:25 AM
It would seem I'm reading articles faster than they are being generated. If anyone is interested, this is an in depth article about Gary Johnson from GQ magazine when he was running for president in 2011 and getting snubbed by both CNN and the GOP. 

It's revealing about his honesty and character and why he figured he needed Bill Weld on board this time to actually win, to get included in the fundraising, the polls, and the debates.  But, as I said now pot is legal for medicinal or recreational use in 24 states plus DC. Legalization makes more fiscal sense than "war".

One quote-


And the vicious cycle continued. In August, he was not invited to the Republican debate in Iowa. Which might have had something to do with his response to the "Family Leader's "Marriage Vow" pledge," a social-conservatism manifesto that Michele Bachmann and several other of his rivals jumped to sign. "In one concise document," Gary said in a YouTube video, "they manage to condemn gays, single parents, single individuals, divorcees, Muslims, gays in the military, unmarried couples, women who choose to have abortions, and everyone else who doesn't fit into a Norman Rockwell painting."


Um, maybe not the best way to appeal to the base.

Then, in early September, he got hosed again by CNN, deemed not even worthy to participate in the reality-show carnival that was the Tea Party debate. Two weeks before the debate, he was polling higher than Jon Huntsman and Rick Santorum. They were onstage. He was not.

http://www.gq.com/story/gary-johnson-republican-candidate-debate-interview (http://www.gq.com/story/gary-johnson-republican-candidate-debate-interview)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 08:13:53 PM
My post vanished. Maybe it's the thunderstorm.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 08:17:20 PM
The Leader dismissed Johnson as a fringe candidate, and the Johnson campaign responded-
"I suppose it is a fringe ticket, if a combined 14 years of successful governing in two of the nation’s bluest states, cutting taxes, balancing budgets and reducing the size of government constitute a fringe,”
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 31, 2016, 08:20:08 PM
Good comeback.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 08:38:00 PM
Yes. That John Zogby, the famous pollster.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2016/05/30/do-not-dismiss-gary-johnson-and-the-libertarians/#7304e7fe27ad (http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2016/05/30/do-not-dismiss-gary-johnson-and-the-libertarians/#7304e7fe27ad)

May 30, 2016 @ 10:22 PM
Do Not Dismiss Gary Johnson And The Libertarians
By John Zogby, Contributor

I know that third parties have never done particularly well in our presidential elections. Former President Theodore Roosevelt won 27% of the vote in 1912 and received 88 electoral votes. In 1968, George Wallace received 13% of the vote and won 45 southern state electoral votes. And Ross Perot, after leading in early 1992 then dropping out July, came back to score 19% of the popular vote. But Perot won no electoral votes.

But this year history and tradition do not seem to matter very much. Age certainly does not appear to be a factor as two 68-year-old frontrunners possibly face off against each other–and one is threatened by a 74-year-old Democratic challenger. Meanwhile, a 93-year-old GOP icon suggests a 73-year-old former Speaker as Donald [Sleezebag]’s running mate, and a 72-year-old vice president perhaps waits in the wings to be the substitute if needed.

The two parties appear ready to nominate two of the most unpopular candidates in the country and confidence in both the Democratic and Republican parties is at an all time low. Not quite half (45%) say they are willing to support an independent candidate–and this is late in the game. [Sleezebag] has broken all the rules of engagement and Hillary Clinton faces either a possible indictment or at least some sort of serious reprimand.



But most importantly is the question of who Millennials will support. They will decide the outcome in 2016. Donald [Sleezebag]’s support is miniscule among this group and Clinton does not generate any enthusiasm among younger voters because she appears to many to be a combination of too establishment and too disingenuous. Even though Bernie Sanders most likely will endorse and campaign for Clinton, as will President Barack Obama, who received a large percentage of support among young voters in 2008 and 2012, they still may not vote in significant enough numbers. To be sure, many will hold their nose and vote for Clinton because of their fear of a [Sleezebag] victory. But the real question is will there be enough excitement to get Millennials out to vote. While early reports on the Libertarian ticket of former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson and former Massachusetts governor Bill Weld suggest that they may draw votes away from [Sleezebag], I think  they may actually hurt Clinton even more.

As of this moment, Johnson is receiving 10%-11% in national polls–about 10 to 11 times the support he received in 2012. While he spent only $2.5 million dollars for his run in 2012, he and the party have chosen Weld who has raised about a quarter of a billion dollars during his career.

Johnson and Weld just may have the most compelling message for Millennials. They are running as fiscal conservative purists and can draw from a group that is deeply concerned about both college debt and unparalleled public debt. And they are social libertarians: pro-choice, anti-government meddling in matters of personal privacy, decriminalization of most drugs, and they oppose United States meddling in foreign adventures and war. These young people are America’s First Global generation and they are diverse and less inclined to see other peoples and cultures as the “other.”

Probably of greatest significance: Millennials are very impatient and jaded at the slowness of government decision making and gridlock. Clinton and the Democrats need every Millennial vote they can get and enough may just want to make a statement more consistent with their values. I wonder if younger men in particular might be more likely to give the Libertarians a longer and more lasting look.

This is not only a year when anything can happen, it has been a year when anything already has happened. And I don’t believe we are done with surprises. I am not saying that Gary Johnson and Bill Weld will (or can) win the presidency and vice presidency, but I am suggesting that with two unpopular candidates (most likely) heading the two major parties, the Libertarians could have a breakthrough year. They could have a very special appeal to Millennials.
---------------------------



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 31, 2016, 08:51:11 PM
There's a thing in there that the right does that always loses me -you do it some, too, Rusty- which is being even harder on Mrs. Clinton than she deserves.  She's a problem candidate, yes, and unpopular in not-just-right-circles - but that's a fantasy about the (mostly manufactured and everyone knows it) email "scandal" and she's nowhere in the Pig's league for unpopular and problematic.

She's Nine Billion Times the candidate and potential president that celebrity publicity-[prostitute] is.  Period.

I'm not dreaming of stealing her away from her dirtbag husband (who, again, is going to make the BEST First Lady EVAH) but I'm voting the heck outta for her if Bernie don't pull off a miracle, and I think flailing around for a third choice this cycle is short-term short-sighted and futile.  -Also dumb to hate her THAT much.-  It's no choice at all between those two, and there's going to be no one else this time


But, the Libertarians seem to be playing it as smartly as could be hoped for, saying the things that need to be said now, and not whipping out the crank tendencies in public for once.  Good on 'em for that, and high hopes for their future. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on May 31, 2016, 10:52:01 PM
I make no pretenses. I hate Hillary.  Mostly because I read her as so insincere most of the time to the point that I find it insulting. She's a walking lawyer and politician joke.

For reasons of sincerity I rank Bernie above Her (she is at least qualified for the job ) and Her above The Leader ( who clearly is not qualified) in terms of presidential preference. I think I've been pretty clear and consistent about that, too.

The Leader has no regard for the Constitution or International law, starting with the 1st Amendment.

As far as unpopular, I think Clinton and The Leader are pretty competitive in the negativity rankings in the national polling. I could be wrong. I'll look into it. ( both Clinton and [Sleezebag] seem to be over 50% negative according to Gallup. George Wallace territory ) For better or worse, issue-wise she is associated with healthcare reform and NAFTA (which Bill signed over the strenuous objections of the unions ) if one of those had a negative impact on somebody's life, they might carry a grudge.

Now maybe I'd have some newfound respect for Hillary if she said the reason she wasn't accommodating Bernie and the people he brought into the party was that she was a capitalist and would never compromise with socialists as a matter of principal, but she's not taking that stance. She's just ignoring/disrespecting Bernie, and she's disrespecting his voters.

But I'm not going to vote for somebody that 1) criticizes Sanders for representing his constituents and respecting the 2nd Amendment as part of The Bill of Rights, ( that's duty and oath of office )and  2) champions the legal theory that we should circumvent the 2nd Ammendment by suing gun manufactures for what people do with their products. If she prevails with that one, not only will we no longer manufacture guns here, but we won't make cars, or tires, or airplanes, or ladders, or sporting goods, or much of anything anymore. Or fuels for that matter. It won't get rid of guns, but it will make gun-running a lucrative new industry. Hardly a pro-jobs stance.


The president's oath of office is to The Constitution, not the Country. I think Sanders and Johnson are the two that really care about that. That's what I care about. I want somebody on the debate stage calling the others out on Constitutional issues, or even better, in the White House calling out the Congress and nominating justices.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2016, 12:14:50 AM
I laid it on a little too thick, I guess.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 12:28:49 AM
-veterans-affairs-donation.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-veterans-affairs-donation.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

Donald [Sleezebag] Lashes Out at Media While Detailing Gifts to Veterans
By MAGGIE HABERMAN and ASHLEY PARKERMAY 31, 2016

A defensive Donald J. [Sleezebag] angrily listed more than two dozen veterans’ groups that he said had received $5.6 million thanks to his fund-raising and personal largess during a contentious news conference Tuesday in which he repeatedly railed against reporters who questioned him.

Criticizing the news media at length, Mr. [Sleezebag] demanded that journalists credit him for his act of charity and took umbrage at their scrutiny of his boasts and promises.

In a heated, 40-minute appearance in the lobby of [Sleezebag] Tower in Manhattan, Mr. [Sleezebag] dismissed a CNN reporter as “a real beauty” and an ABC reporter as “a sleaze,” and said that if he was elected president, the American public could expect a similar dynamic in the White House briefing room.

“Yes, it is,” he said. “It is going to be like this.”

Mr. [Sleezebag] attributed the holdup in gifts — which he announced in January — to a need to scrutinize the charities beforehand — though the recipient of his largest donation is well-known to him. And he expressed a newfound bashfulness about his donations, saying that he “didn’t want to have credit” for them — though he had promised the donations in a speech carried live on national television.

The problem stemmed from an event Mr. [Sleezebag] staged in late January as an alternative to the final Republican debate before the Iowa caucuses, which he skipped. In a televised fund-raiser that he said would benefit military veterans, he announced he had raised more than $6 million and that he himself was giving $1 million.

But the full amount did not materialize quickly, and The Washington Post reported a week ago that Mr. [Sleezebag] still had yet to make his own donation.

On Tuesday, Mr. [Sleezebag] arrived prepared with a list of groups — complete with exact dollar amounts — to which he said he had donated. Campaign aides and security guards applauded Mr. [Sleezebag].

The largest gift, he said, was $1 million to the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation, and he held up a copy of a check to back up his assertion. (The group’s vice chairman, Gary Schweikert, is the managing director of the [Sleezebag] SoHo hotel.)

Demanding that the news media praise him for his generosity, Mr. [Sleezebag] complained that military veterans were calling him in outrage rather than in gratitude.

“The press should be ashamed of themselves,” Mr. [Sleezebag] said. “You make me look very bad.”

Outside [Sleezebag] Tower, Perry O’Brien, a veteran from Brooklyn who said he had served in Afghanistan until 2003, protested Mr. [Sleezebag] as part of a group calling itself Vets vs. Hate.

“Veterans are not for sale, and we’re not interested in making a deal when it comes to him demeaning veterans, demeaning P.O.W.s,” said Mr. O’Brien, who said he was a supporter of Senator Bernie Sanders.


=============================

Well, he set himself up for that one. He took credit for raising the money when he  ditched that debate. Then he held it and didn't distribute all of it. So The Washington Post investigated, following the money. So I guess $5.6 million has been disbursed now. Maybe he exaggerated about the amount raised, I don't know.

But I do have hope that Journalism survives at the Washington Post, and in the person of Chris Matthews, and a couple of reporters at the press conference.
of course, they will never be called upon again, so they might as well get re-assigned.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 12:35:12 AM
I laid it on a little too thick, I guess.

I'm not mad, so no problem.

But I'm pretty insistent that I won't vote for X, because they're the lesser of two evils. I believe that every time we do that, we get more of the same bad options.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2016, 12:45:59 AM
I've never seen a third way worth my vote, and I say that as a genuine career protest voter.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 01:38:16 AM
Usually when I hear statements about lack of choice  I accept them, and ask the person what they did about it.   :GeoModder:

And before you take that personally, I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to express my multitude of rants.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2016, 02:06:58 AM
Sir, it's politics, and only dense people -as far too many are- finally realize this year that it's FUBAR.  I do blame Reagan, but not for most people being stupid, only for exploiting it.

Rant, rant away.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 07:44:07 AM
This goes to character more than criminality, but I just learned that the State Department's inspector general position was kept vacant during her tenure.

------------------

There's apparently an occupy the DNC movement afoot with 20K people pledged.

----------------
If Krystal and the NeoCons  field a candidate, well, they will struggle with ballot access, but things could get wide open in some states if the Bernie or Bust people feel cheated and go Green. I don't think either will be on the ballot in every state.

Hillary's best states were The South East, and they'll mostly vote [Sleezebag] anyway, I suspect.

[Sleezebag] is getting a bump in the polls  from clinching his nomination right now. Hillary will get one soon for the same reason, too. They should also get a bump with their conventions. I expect Johnson will get one soon. Whether he can sustain it long enough to get in a debate I have no clue.

Today's news coverage has basically been either continuing to try and ridicule and marginalize Johnson as being a Fringe ( or Libertarian lite, from the purists)  OR saying for those who want a 3rd choice, Johnson is IT and he should be included in the polls and debates. ( mostly major newspapers and magazines ).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 06:08:27 PM
Well, apparently not everybody at Salon has an anti- Libertarian bias-

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/01/could_gary_johnson_end_the_drug_war_libertarian_candidates_presidential_bid_could_put_sane_drug_policy_in_our_grasp/ (http://www.salon.com/2016/06/01/could_gary_johnson_end_the_drug_war_libertarian_candidates_presidential_bid_could_put_sane_drug_policy_in_our_grasp/)

Wednesday, Jun 1, 2016 10:34 AM CDT

Could Gary Johnson end the drug war? Libertarian candidate’s presidential bid could put sane drug policy in our grasp

A viable Gary Johnson candidacy and his unorthodox view on drug laws could be a game changer
Matthew Rosza

A recent survey found that Gary Johnson, the former New Mexico governor who was just nominated to be the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate, does surprisingly well against Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and Republican candidate Donald [Sleezebag]. Although his 10 percent is nothing compared to Clinton’s 38 percent and [Sleezebag]’s 35 percent, it’s enough to make his candidacy relevant to our national conversation.

This is where Johnson’s bold and unorthodox view on drug policy could alter the course of American history

Johnson is perhaps best known for his unabashed support for marijuana legalization. Back in 2000, he became the highest ranking American political official to ever call for ending the prohibition against recreational cannabis use; later that same year, Hawaii Governor Benjamin J. Cayetano and Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura joined him in calling for the federal government to decriminalize pot and treat drug abuse as a public health issue rather than a crime. In the years since, Johnson has remained boldly iconoclastic on these issues, admitting to The Weekly Standard that he smoked pot from 2005 to 2008 to recover from a paragliding injury and vowing during his 2012 presidential campaign that he would pardon marijuana offenders and “defang” the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).

There are good reasons for wanting to cut the DEA down to size. According to drugpolicy.org, America spends $51 billion annually (that’s billion with a ‘b’) in its so-called war on drugs, a program that exists for no other reason than to tell American citizens what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. Nearly 1.3 million people were arrested in 2014 alone merely for possessing contraband substances (83 percent of all drug arrests), more than 600,000 of whom were taken in for marijuana possession (88 percent of all marijuana-related arrests). All of this is occurring as America continues to house the world’s largest prison population, of whom a disproportionate number are African American or Latino (even though, when it comes to drug-related offenses, they are no more likely to use than whites). Not surprisingly, a 2015 Gallup Poll found that 58 percent of Americans support legalizing marijuana – the highest number in the survey’s history – with that number rising to 71 percent for 18-to-34 year olds.

Of course, Johnson isn’t simply saying that marijuana should be legalized; he is arguing that, unless a drug user poses a direct risk to others (for example, driving while under the influence), their actions shouldn’t be criminalized at all. The logic here is very similar to that employed in supporting gay marriage (which Johnson does) and a woman’s right to choose (which Johnson also does up to 24 weeks, although as a fiscal conservative he opposes government funding for organizations that perform abortions). While socially conservative Americans have every right to disapprove of recreational drug use, it is profoundly troubling that they are able to use our government to impose their personal moral beliefs on other people… especially considering that, as President Obama admitted last year, the war on drugs has been “very unproductive.”

While there is an inexorable logic of completely legalizing marijuana – Alaska, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and Washington, D.C. have already done so — Clinton and [Sleezebag] haven’t gone nearly as far as Johnson. Characteristically, Donald [Sleezebag] has been deliberately vague about all matters related to drug policy; although he supports medical marijuana, his main criticism of the war on drugs is that “we do such a poor job of policing.” By contrast (and to her credit), Clinton has been much more specific,

advocating rescheduling marijuana from a Schedule I to a Schedule II substance (which would allow further research into its health benefits), supporting its use for medical purposes, condemning the wildly disproportionate racial disparities in drug-related arrests and sentencing, and vowing not to interfere with states that have legalized it entirely. That said, she doesn’t support outright legalization of marijuana, and although she supports sentencing reform for other drug-related offenses (in particular singling out the disparity between cocaine powder and crack cocaine), she still backs both the DEA and the underlying policy goals of the war on drugs – one that, notably, her husband’s administration did a great deal to worsen.

Fortunately for drug policy reformers, a viable Johnson candidacy could be a game-changer. Third-party candidates have a long history of supporting ideas that are ultimately picked up and implemented by one or both of the major parties: Two of the most famous examples include the Populist Party in 1892, which introduced American voters to the secret ballot, the direct election of US Senators, banking reform, and the graduated income tax, and the Progressive Party in 1912, which called for the prohibition of child labor, mandatory workplace safety laws, workers’ compensation, and many of the business regulations later implemented by the New Deal. Because the presidential candidates of those parties (General James B. Weaver and former President Theodore Roosevelt, respectively) outperformed most third-party candidacies, future Democratic and Republican candidates saw the practical as well as moral wisdom in adopting their more reasonable policy proposals.

Given that he has already cracked double-digits in early polls, Johnson is in an excellent position to play a comparable role in this election. After all, it isn’t like Clinton and [Sleezebag] aren’t already in considerable trouble. Both of them have higher unfavorability ratings than any major party candidates since the dawn of modern polling, and each has alienated large swathes of their party’s bases in order to become their presumptive nominees. If Johnson continues to poll well and increases his mainstream media exposure, he could pose a simultaneous threat to Clinton from the left (he is more liberal than her on a number of social issues) and [Sleezebag] on the right (he is more conservative than him on a number of economic issues). In order to stave Johnson off, both Clinton and [Sleezebag] will need to peel off his voters by moving closer to his positions… and, as the surveys of public opinion make clear, drug policy is a shoo-in to be one of them.

This is why, although I’m not a libertarian myself, I can’t help but wish Johnson a fare-thee-well in his upcoming presidential bid. His statements about America’s war on drugs have been courageous and ahead-of-the-curve, and we would benefit enormously if they were enacted into public policy. The 2016 presidential election is already a historic one – from Clinton becoming the first major female candidate to [Sleezebag] breaking the GOP establishment’s half-century lock on their party’s nomination process – but that doesn’t mean further history can’t be made here. If Johnson’s campaign is able to pressure our next president into doing the right thing about marijuana specifically, and our war on drugs in general, he will have cemented his place as one of America’s great champions of social justice and personal freedom.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 06:46:10 PM
The buzz today indicates Bill Kristol's cat is out of the bag. Mr. NeoCon wanted to run a NeoCon to keep conservatives from staying home and inadvertently costing the GOP the senate. Reactions range from 'Who?' to "it'll throw the election to Hillary!' to 'he's a fine person'. Personally, I applaud him for getting involved. It's supposed to be government of We the People. Not that I expect he'll make it to the debate stage.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/who-david-french-n583886 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/who-david-french-n583886)
Who Is David French and Is He Running for President?

by Jane C. Timm

After a feverish few days of speculation over who conservative "Never [Sleezebag]" activist Bill Kristol was hinting about in a tweet over the weekend boasting of a third-party challenger to Donald [Sleezebag] and Hillary Clinton, the cat is out of the bag: Kristol is courting constitutional lawyer and Weekly Standard writer David French to run for president.

Several sources confirmed to NBC News that French is interested in a bid, but has not yet committed to running or not.

Wait, who?

That's a question a lot of people are asking! French isn't well-known.

He's a constitutional lawyer, conservative thinker, veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, a co-author of best-selling book that bills itself as the 'definitive book on ISIS'. His recent Weekly Standard columns range from a "Game of Thrones" recap to railing against the conservative movement's awkward embrace of [Sleezebag] and college activists.

Perhaps the bigger question is can a relatively unknown private citizen mount a presidential bid in five months against one of the most well-known public servants and an internationally-known mogul and reality television star?

Well, does he have a lot of cash? 

Not that we know of, but millionaire and [Sleezebag] critic Mitt Romney has already signaled his interest.

What about his family? 

He's married to Nancy French, a ghostwriter for the Sarah Palin family, and they live in Tennessee with three children.

RELATED: Does Donald [Sleezebag] Need to Worry About a Third-Party Challenger?

They opened up about their marriage in a book, Home and Away, and shared the detailed rulebook they'd followed while he was in Iraq, which banned Nancy's use of Facebook (to avoid "the ghosts of boyfriends past"), phone conversations with men, or "meaningful e-mail exchanges about politics or any other subject."

When his wife began emailing with a colleague about faith, French asked her to end the relationship, writing that "the most intimate conversations a person has are about life and faith" — and that "spiritual and emotional intimacy frequently leads to physical intimacy."

What do they think about all this? 

"He's been trying to get other people to run for a long time, so that's probably why people are considering him, you know, because he's been very adamantly anti-[Sleezebag], or at least Never [Sleezebag], Never Hillary," Nancy French told NBC News on Wednesday.

"So we just want someone to run. I don't know if it'll be him-it'll be quite jolting to our lives if that is the case. But he'd be great. We just don't know if it's the right thing for him to do."

What does he think about Donald [Sleezebag]? 

He's not a fan.

"When I look at [Sleezebag], I see a catastrophe in the making," French wrote in a recent column. "And for that reason - among many others — I cannot in good conscience vote for the instrument of national crisis."

He condemned [Sleezebag] supporters in another column: "While I'm often frustrated by GOP leadership…the idea that we should destroy their influence for the sake of elevating a far more liberal, ignorant, and dishonest human being to the height of American power strikes me as virtually insane. It would be like Lincoln firing his previous commanders and replacing them not with U.S. Grant but with Bill the Butcher."

This story originally appeared on MSNBC.com.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 07:42:14 PM
http://lawnewz.com/uncategorized/bill-weld-im-not-buying-that-clinton-will-be-indicted-not-enough-evidence/ (http://lawnewz.com/uncategorized/bill-weld-im-not-buying-that-clinton-will-be-indicted-not-enough-evidence/)

Bill Weld: ‘I’m Not Buying’ That Clinton Will Be Indicted, Not Enough Evidence

by Rachel Stockman | 6:37 pm, May 31st, 2016
 
On MSNBC Tuesday afternoon, former Governor Bill Weld, who is now the vice presidential Libertarian candidate, said he didn’t buy the rumors that Clinton would be indicted. In fact, he said he doesn’t think there is enough evidence to hold her criminally responsible.

“I will give you one news tip,” he said. “All this stuff about Secretary Clinton’s use of email accounts and the report that came out,  how she might get indicted, I’m not buying it. I used to be head of the criminal division of the Justice Department of the United States.” Weld served in that position from 1986 to 1988 and he also served as the United State Attorney in Massachusetts. Weld, a Republican before his affiliation with the Libertarian party, was promoted by President Reagan to the DOJ’s Criminal Division.

Todd pressed Weld on why he wasn’t buying the rumors.

“I’m not buying it, you can’t indict somebody if there is no evidence of intent, and I don’t see it, I don’t see any evidence of criminal intent,” Weld said.

Weld’s analysis is consistent with LawNewz.com founder Dan Abrams’ article earlier this year in which he wrote that there is not enough (as far as we know) to indict Clinton. However, another former DOJ official, Dan Metcalfe, recently penned an opinion piece in which he said it was ‘difficult to imagine’ Clinton not being indicted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 08:20:44 PM
Here's one about Bill Weld that reveals character with regard to Ed Meese -
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a45382/william-weld-libertarian-ticket/ (http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a45382/william-weld-libertarian-ticket/)

One of the Republican Party's Last Good Men
William Weld is back for one last hurrah.

By Charles P. Pierce
Jun 1, 2016

Back when I was just starting out at The Boston Phoenix, William Weld was the United States Attorney in Boston. He was tasked with cleaning out the traditional rat's nest of corruption in city and state government, and he was very enthusiastic about his job. He was just the strangest combination of joviality and implacability that I ever encountered.

Once, in 1981, his office brought an extortion case against the president of the Massachusetts Senate, whom Weld charged with shaking down a contractor who'd been consensually paying off the senator for over a decade. (The government's case depended on some arcane point of the extortion statute that I still don't understand.) I sat through the entire trial; I was in the courtroom the day that Ronald Reagan was shot. The judge on the case was as hostile to the government's case as it was possible to be. He did everything but throw rocks from the bench at the prosecutor's table. The jury, which was as baffled as the rest of us were, couldn't come to a verdict. I spoke to Weld in the aftermath and we had a good laugh at the antics of the judge and of some of the witnesses.

Then he tried the guy again and convicted him.

I headed into fulltime sportswriting just as his political star was rising nationally and, when he ran for governor, I voted for him. Twice. I believe he may be the last Republican for whom I ever voted. He was the last of the WASP scions—the descendants of those grim-faced gombeens who scratched a society out of some of the most unforgiving terrain on the continent, the ones who gave up the power in Boston only grudgingly to the immigrant populations that came flooding in during the 19th century, in part because, sooner or later, Trey Eliot Cabot IV fell in love with Maureen, the downstairs maid.

An uneasy peace was struck that mellowed over the years into a culture of friendly insult. Once, at an annual St. Patrick's Day breakfast, the local Hibernian wiseguys jibed at Weld about his family's having come over on the Mayflower. No, Weld told them, his family hadn't made the trip, but they had sent the servants over to make sure the summer cottage was ready.


The last time we ran into each other was at the 2012 Republican convention in Tampa. He reached out and grabbed my arm and we spoke for quite some time. He had long ago fallen out of favor with what the Republican Party had become, and it had fallen out of favor with him. (The last straw was when Jesse Helms, that nasty old bigot, blocked Weld's appointment to be ambassador to Mexico.)

Now, though, he's back, improbably, as Gary Johnson's running mate on the Libertarian ticket. They were on with Lawrence O'Donnell on Tuesday night, and O'Donnell and Weld fell into that old-school Irish-WASP pol-patter in which anyone who's been around Massachusetts politics is fluent.

There always has been a temptation not to take Weld too seriously, because he doesn't take himself too seriously. This is a capital mistake, as is made clear by a little-remembered episode in Weld's career.

In 1988, as Ronald Reagan's term of office was winding down, Attorney General Edwin Meese, a career authoritarian and Reagan's bulldog dating back to their days in California, was caught in a corruption scandal involving his investment adviser and one of his closest friends. (One of the allegations involved the construction of an oil pipeline in Iraq. Plus ca change and all that.) This was one of the last scandals of the Reagan Administration, which had a record of corruption unmatched since the sudden death of Warren Harding.

On March 29, 1988, Weld, who then headed up the DOJ's criminal division, and Deputy Attorney General Arnold Burns marched themselves to the White House and handed their resignations to Howard Baker, then Reagan's chief of staff. No muss. No fuss. Gone.

As The Los Angeles Times wrote at the time:

Burns, who built a thriving New York law practice and joined the department only 18 months ago, first began discussing the possibility of resigning in January, according to department officials. He was said to have become increasingly fearful that he would be tarnished by criticism of Meese's conduct. "He came here with a reputation, and he wants to leave with it intact," one official said of Burns, who has no immediate job plans. As for Weld, he was convinced that "the top guy had to go, and when the top guy didn't, he did," one source said.

Beneath the lopsided grins and the self-deprecation and the occasional glass of what he always called "the amber-colored liquids," Bill Weld is a man of considerable conscience and considerable substance. But he does not brag about any of that because, my dear young man, it simply is…not…done. Both qualities are more than welcome in this particular election year and, if this is really Bill Weld's last hurrah—a reference, I suspect, that would delight him—then I hope he makes the most of it. It's good to have him back.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2016, 08:30:18 PM
Finally, someone -two in a row since I just got ninja'd- bothers to mention that Weld used to be a Republican - I couldn't recall, and have meant to ask for a week.

-That right there's failing Journalism 101, which I actually took and passed in college; "never assume your readers know anything" is one of the very most basic principals they tell you the first day of class, and in a deluge of stories heavily featuring him not being considered a "real" Libertarian, the failure of so, so, SO many writers to say "former Republican" flunks all of a very large class on a very basic bit of journalistic competence.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 09:05:17 PM
Well, it's kinda what you said months(?) ago , the socially liberal Republicans need to bail out of the GOP and go Libertarian.

--------------------------

But there is yet another alternative-  More Powerful than The Leader with nukes. Scarier than Kodos.

The Sweet Meteor of Death
https://twitter.com/smod2016

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 01, 2016, 09:26:59 PM
I think it's remarkable when an opposition party guy can get elected governor, get something done and get re-elected.

Both Johnson and Weld have done that, proving that they can reach across the aisles. To me, a record speaks more loudly than speeches. But that's also why the discontent at the convention- Some think these too are too lite and too late to join the Party. Of course, that faction would rather do away with taxes and government altogether than to make government work better.

I'm sorry I didn't make that clear earlier. Johnson and Weld actually know something about passing budgets with an opposed legislature, so that should'nt be a concern about an upstart party.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2016, 09:37:02 PM
There's drawbacks to having had a foot in the establishment door, but there's still no substitute for experience and a proven record.

-I was saying the small-gov conservatives don't belong in the same party with the theocons -who are openly foaming-at-the-mouth statists, the very opposite- the day after the 2012 election.  I linked that thread a couple months ago.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 02, 2016, 12:04:21 AM
Here's an article that tries to interview Johnson supporters, as opposed to painting Libertarians as lunatic fringe.
It interviews 8 of them ages 18 to 46, from various states. They are educated and articulate. It asks them all "Why are you supporting Johnson?"  & "Can he actually win?" 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/we-asked-gary-johnson-supporters-if-he-can-actually-become-the-next-president-a7057661.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/we-asked-gary-johnson-supporters-if-he-can-actually-become-the-next-president-a7057661.html)

"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 02, 2016, 12:52:56 AM
Wait, let me get this straight.........

The two main party's put up a list of candidates, which the people voted on and picked as [Sleezebag] and Hillary (presumed).  Now the party's don't like the two candidates the people have picked and are trying their hardest to get someone else in the job which the people don't know about, or don't care about?

I thought Aussie party politics was delusional!  This is a whole new level of deluded!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 02, 2016, 02:06:12 AM
Wait, let me get this straight.........

The two main party's put up a list of candidates, which the people voted on and picked as T rump and Hillary (presumed).  Now the party's don't like the two candidates the people have picked and are trying their hardest to get someone else in the job which the people don't know about, or don't care about?

I thought Aussie party politics was delusional!  This is a whole new level of deluded!

Yep, crazy eh!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 02, 2016, 02:22:33 AM
Wait, let me get this straight.........

The two main party's put up a list of candidates, which the people voted on and picked as T rump and Hillary (presumed).  Now the party's don't like the two candidates the people have picked and are trying their hardest to get someone else in the job which the people don't know about, or don't care about?

I thought Aussie party politics was delusional!  This is a whole new level of deluded!

I often wish it's a bad dream as much as you wish it was a joke.

Something like this-

*Obama is popular enough that nobody can beat him, but controversial enough that he has cost his Democratic party seats in the legislature, and governorships.

*Obama and the Republican opposition disagree so much they can't even pass a budget. They fight over everything. This infuriates the public.

* Clinton is the Democratic establishment choice. She had the money and the support all lined up. There are only two problems with that 1) Not everybody in the Democratic Party wants 4 more years of the same, and 2) Senator Bernie Sanders ( an independent who is at heart a Euro-style socialist ) had the audacity to register as a Democrat and challenge her, and he was wildly popular with young people, who fund him with small donations. He can carry on the fight for reform as long as he has support and money. He may be mathematically eliminated, but he essentially claims that's because Clinton sold out to Wall Street investment banks, and used the money to buy the sitting Democrat politicians before any votes were cast.

* On the Republican side, with no heir apparent, there were 15 candidates running, Plus reality TV star and real estate Billionaire Donald [Sleezebag] ( formerly a Democrat and a financial donor to Hillary ). He doesn't know much about issues, but he knows a lot about publicity and psychology and branding. He got a lot of angry white guys who haven't voted in years involved again. He has been able to run on their donations and an estimated $1.6 billion dollars in free publicity. Eventually, the other 15 candidates ran out of money or hope. [Sleezebag] has completed a coup d' ta of the Republican Party.

* So, essentially our two parties haven't evolved, have become gridlocked, and outsiders succeeded in overthrowing the Republicans, but not the Democrats. The two losing factions are frantic and looking for an alternative. The Libertarians think this is their breakthrough year, as the only other party likely to be on the ballot in every state. The Neocons ( Republicans like Bush the lesser, ) despise the choice between Clinton and her former donor, [Sleezebag], and are trying to find anyone to run against them and avoid losing legislative seats and governor's offices by preventing their voters from staying home in disgust.

This was a March poll, but it gives you an idea of it-

"On the Republican side, [Sleezebag] scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably. On the Democratic side, Clinton fares only slightly better with a net negative of -21, registering a 31% favorable rating and a 52% unfavorable rating, according to the poll."

But as you say, a whole new level of deluded.





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 06:09:36 PM
I'm putting in my prediction.  [Sleezebag] is going to win.

Quote
Since Ronald Reagan’s first victory, sales of rubber Halloween masks caricaturing the Republican and Democratic candidates have predicted the next president


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6143259/ns/politics/t/can-halloween-masks-predict-poll-outcome/#.V1BkpE32a70 (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6143259/ns/politics/t/can-halloween-masks-predict-poll-outcome/#.V1BkpE32a70) (and that's from 2004, we've since added several more elections to the streak)

Essentially since they started making candidate masks in election years, Halloween mask sales figures have 100% predicted the outcome of presidential elections.

I don't see ANYONE being able to outsell a [Sleezebag] mask.  Period.  He might have outsold both candidates during the last election just on celebrity status.

The industry is banking on it as well.  They've been mass producing [Sleezebag] masks since he announced from several sources.  You can buy them for $2. 

Clinton's masks have also been around a while, hers are more varied and frightening (zombie Clinton exists in many forms) and also more expensive, there is one cheap version being mass produced.  Going for $4. 

Anyone else barely exists. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 02, 2016, 06:24:08 PM
Shame.  You could do a lot with a sanders - there's certainly enough news photos of him looking ranty to work from - and Cruz has an odd face that ought to work well as a rubber mask...

A good sanders would also serve very well as a generic crazy neighbor and such should he fade into obscurity...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 06:39:52 PM
A good sanders would also serve very well as a generic crazy neighbor and such should he fade into obscurity...


That's the problem. 


Vote zombillary:
(http://www.politicalcostumes.com/images/zombie-hillary-mask.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 02, 2016, 07:12:05 PM
...That looks more like Jimmy Carter gone hobo than a zombilary...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 02, 2016, 08:21:46 PM
Thoughts on various political  articles  from the last 24 hours.

* [Sleezebag] University was a scam. They left NY when they got into trouble for illegally using the term "University".  This gives new meaning to my term CEOCon.

* Bill Weld, who was criticized for the historical inaccuracy of mentioning Warsaw with Kristallnacht, and invoking The Holocaust when comparing [Sleezebag]'s immigration policy, has changed his story to - the mass deportation of 11 million Mexicans reminds me of Anne Frank hiding in the attic.

Well, I can't argue that one. It does remind me of that now that he has been made the comparison.

* Hillary is hostile to the press, [Sleezebag] manipulates them by granting access but not answering questions, and Johnson is friendly, gives them his cell phone # , and answers texted questions bluntly within an hour.

* CA is a dead heat. Clinton is facing potential embarrassment.

* David French seems to be a fizzle. His Facebook wants Mitt to run, and French still hasn't declared.  #Never [Sleezebag] desperately needs somebody, and they are praising his character. Salon is criticizing him as anti-gay. But it's looking like too little, too late.

* French on Johnson- "In considering Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson as a viable candidate, French said Johnson has “serious credentials” and “more executive experience than either Clinton or [Sleezebag].”

However, French wrote of Johnson’s candidacy: “You won’t win, but you can matter.”

* There are a lot of articles trying to figure out who Johnson hurts. [Sleezebag]'s cheerleading news agency Brietbart says it will undercut Hillary. The limited polling so far says it takes away from both about equally. Conservative groups say it will hurt them. Liberal sources fear it will hurt them.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 08:33:19 PM
...That looks more like Jimmy Carter gone hobo than a zombilary...


I think it's a little eye opening how the Chinese manufacturers view our candidates, really. 


(http://i0.wp.com/popwrapped.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/mexico-us-hallowen-masks-trump_rsa899_53362393.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 02, 2016, 08:38:13 PM
The skin-tone isn't orange enough.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 08:38:59 PM
Better?

(http://www.trendyhalloween.com/Assets/ProductImages/trump_mask_new-1a.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 08:43:41 PM
Oh look, a set. 

(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XHkAAOSwGeBXP2nr/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 02, 2016, 08:55:46 PM
Much better! Unnatural tan and white eyelids nailed.

Who are those guys flanking [Sleezebag] supposed to be in the group shot?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 09:17:21 PM
 ;lol I ain't going back into the Chinese catalog to try to find out. 

edit:  Man that joker grin on Hillary is creepy...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 02, 2016, 09:23:10 PM
Okay - I just want to stand up and say that, as a mask artist myself, I find all that crap creepy and terribly unpleasant to look at, and I hope the point is made and the pics stop. ;nod
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 02, 2016, 09:28:46 PM
 :ok: so put away these skinless versions and let the thread get back on track.  Got it. 


(On an aside, glancing over the smilies, I see we have 3 T rump smilies...)

 T rump   :wave:  :announce:

edit:  Oh, looks like even the pig smilie is caught by the curse filter
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 02, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
WHAT?  Let's try that.    [Sleezebag]

Huh.  I don't think I can fix that without messing up the filter, making it case-sensitive.  Oh well.  Best dump that turkey, then.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 02, 2016, 10:31:56 PM
Hey, I like the Hillery one.  Looks better on the mask than she does in RL. 

Now, if they had a good Nixon one!
Title: Re: Rusty's Naval/Military History thread
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 03, 2016, 12:35:52 AM
For what it's worth, I just watched excerpts from Hillary's attack on The Leader.

I thought she was being honest and sincere, and she didn't get on my nerves at all. My wife and niece expressed the opinion that she was right, or at least telling the truth. Without being asked.

------------------
Yesterday [Sleezebag] threatened Republicans who didn't support him.

Today House Speaker Paul Ryan said he would continue to speak out against [Sleezebag] as needed, but he would vote for him because they have more agreements than disagreements.

Notice that he did not come out for David French. This more than anything tells me that a Republican alternative doesn't exist and won't. In fact, it's already too late to get on the ballot in Texas.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 03, 2016, 01:46:57 AM
This one's a breakdown/analysis of the latest Quinnipiac poll. It shows the high negatives of the two major party candidates. There are 5 tables which I could not copy, as text or photos. They say that a majority believes Hillary is better qualified, and more trustworthy with nukes. More Republicans than Democrats will possibly or definitely stay home on election day.

-38-johnson-5/]http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/01/quinnipiac-hillary-40-[Sleezebag]-38-johnson-5/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/01/quinnipiac-hillary-40-[Sleezebag)

Quinnipiac: Hillary 40, [Sleezebag] 38, Johnson 5
posted at 10:01 pm on June 1, 2016 by Allahpundit

I know what you’re thinking, but you’re wrong. Gary Johnson doesn’t cost [Sleezebag] the election in this scenario. Without him in the race, it’s Hillary 45, [Sleezebag] 41, with [Sleezebag] winning independents by a narrow 40/37 margin. With Johnson in the mix, Hillary’s share of independents drops eight points while [Sleezebag]’s declines by only four; meanwhile just four percent of Republicans break for Johnson (so much for #NeverTrump) compared to two percent of Dems. Relatedly, a new poll of Michigan today finds Johnson at nearly 12 percent there, and once again sees him drawing more votes from Clinton than from [Sleezebag]. She drops a little more than six points with him in the race while [Sleezebag] a bit less than six. That is to say, there’s reason to believe that Johnson’s candidacy will end up helping [Sleezebag] in the end by luring away enough left-leaning pro-Sanders indies to hurt her on balance. Although, of course, that may change. If Bernie goes all-in for Hillary and unites the left, Johnson may end up as mainly a right-wing phenomenon after all, which is trouble for the GOP.

To give you a sense of how deeply sleazy Hillary Clinton is perceived as being, even a guy as compromised as [Sleezebag] wins when voters are asked which of the two candidates is more honest and trustworthy (44/39). Among independents, his advantage is 15 points. Democrats may have nominated the one person in the party who can’t beat him on that metric. Apart from Hillary’s better half, of course.


In a Clinton-[Sleezebag] matchup, men go Republican 51 – 35 percent, while women go Democratic 54 – 30 percent…

American voters give Clinton a 57 percent “very unfavorable” or “strongly unfavorable” rating, with 37 percent “strongly favorable” or “somewhat favorable.”

[Sleezebag] gets a 59 percent “somewhat unfavorable” or “strongly unfavorable” rating, with 34 percent strongly favorable” or “somewhat favorable.”

Finding a pol whose unfavorable rating is nearly as bad as [Sleezebag]’s was no easy feat. Congratulations to Democrats on going the extra mile and defying the odds to make this unlikely Republican dream come true.

Jokes aside, there’s data in the details to encourage the left, starting with the fact that [Sleezebag] is still having trouble escaping the low 40s even though his party’s united behind him while hers remains split. (He leads her among independents as well.) One number of note is how many voters from each party say they’re “dissatisfied” or “embarrassed” by their nominee each year. The combined totals are similar — 19 percent for Clinton versus 24 percent for [Sleezebag] — but the number who claim embarrassment is just six percent in her case versus 14 percent in his. I’d guess that “embarrassed” voters are the ones most likely to waver in the end because they fear their nominee isn’t fit for office. If that’s true, it supports the theory that [Sleezebag] will end up losing more Rs than Clinton will lose Ds.

It’s also tempting to believe that Republicans, who are eager to reclaim the White House and excited about [Sleezebag], will beat Democrats in turnout this year as a divided left struggles with whether to support her. There’s evidence here to support that: 42 percent of GOPers say they’re more excited to vote this year than in years past versus 29 percent of Dems. But when you ask them if they’re likely to vote, the numbers look different:

def

Hillary’s the all but certain nominee but the primary’s still being contested so it’s surprising to see Democrats say they’re more intent on showing up for her than Republicans are for [Sleezebag]. That may be an early clue that it’ll be easier for her to unite her party than everyone thinks. Maybe the left is already so committed to defeating [Sleezebag] that even most Bernie fans are vowing to show up in November, notwithstanding their bitterness about his looming defeat in the primary.

Another potential telltale number: Look how wide her margins are on “stability” questions. Here’s the result when voters are asked whom they trust more to make the right decisions with nuclear weapons.

nukes

Men are a loyal [Sleezebag] cohort on most issues but not this time. Ditto when people are asked who’s better prepared to be president:

exper

When they’re asked who’s more intelligent, men are back on [Sleezebag]’s side — barely. Women, meanwhile, are overwhelmingly pro-Hillary.

Clinton also wins easily, 53/40, when asked which candidate would better handle an international crisis. What you’re seeing here, in all likelihood, is the germ of her main line of attack on him this fall, namely that he’s way too much of a loose cannon to trust with powers as vast as the presidency’s. [Sleezebag]’s core appeal is that he’s a change agent; he’s ahead by nine points when people are asked who’s more inspiring. The obvious counter is that he’s a chaos agent, not merely one of change. Hillary running as the “stability” candidate is tricky in a populist climate, when “stability” is easily characterized as “status quo” ([Sleezebag] leads by 11 points when folks are asked who’d do more to create jobs), but [Sleezebag]’s already promised to go on being his usual loose-cannon self this fall despite the assurances from people like Paul Manafort that he’ll behave more presidentially at some point. If Democrats invest heavily in attacks on [Sleezebag] as dangerously unqualified, both by temperament and experience, it’ll probably win them late deciders. If the electorate goes into the booth with the foremost question in its mind, “Whom do I trust more with the bomb?”, Hillary wins easily. She’s shady but she’s predictable.

One last table, just because it’s so tremendously depressing:

moral

Is the GOP actually going to lose a test of morals to the farking Clintons? God almighty.

Speaking of depressing, here’s one of the cringiest moments of the campaign on either side to date. I need a drink.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 03, 2016, 04:36:14 AM
WOW! just WOW!

Jill Stein, Green Party frontrunner, some say presumptive nominee, ( but the convention isn't until August ) is holding the door open for Bernie... and he is now leaving his option open, instead of outright denial or rejection as he used to do. He used to try to reassure the establishment that even though he was a newcomer, he was still a dedicated Democrat. Well, they are still trying to shut him out. It's not the welcome they gave Jesse Jackson.

The Greens stand for student debt forgiveness, and slavery reparations to blacks. I wonder how many youngsters they could register, and how many votes they could buy.  Bernie on a Green ticket this year sounds like the  House of Representatives picks the president to me. If nobody wins there, the Speaker takes over the presidency for 4 years.

Well in that scenario, at least nobody can say a vote for so and so is a vote for somebody else, because you don't know what will happen.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/02/dont_rule_it_out_bernie_sanders_slightly_leaves_door_open_for_green_party_run_with_jill_stein/ (http://www.salon.com/2016/06/02/dont_rule_it_out_bernie_sanders_slightly_leaves_door_open_for_green_party_run_with_jill_stein/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 03, 2016, 04:49:29 AM
...Those clowns would find somebody worse than the Pig, with their track record, which I guess is good news for OJ and/or Charles Manson...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 03, 2016, 05:41:53 AM
...Those clowns would find somebody worse than the Pig, with their track record, which I guess is good news for OJ and/or Charles Manson...

Okay. This is Unospeak. Which clowns? The RINO hunters? The Greens?  Salon.com?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 03, 2016, 12:05:20 PM
The worst House of Representatives since 1865 - they shouldn't be allowed to choose their own lunches.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 03, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Stole this from Rhoth:

(http://www.driftforspeedboosts.com/uploads/5/0/4/5/50456041/1293878_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 03, 2016, 02:45:44 PM
...Those clowns would find somebody worse than the Pig, with their track record, which I guess is good news for OJ and/or Charles Manson...

Okay. This is Unospeak.

Actually, it's not.  BU means clowns as a derogatory term. 

My clowns are a highly skilled act in the circus I actually respect.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 03, 2016, 02:59:27 PM
It's definitely highly pejorative when I use it, most especially when used in a context of governance.  Management should never look like a circus act not adept juggling and/or high-wire acts.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 03, 2016, 07:32:44 PM
Thanks, that clarifies things considerably.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 04, 2016, 04:44:23 AM
Here are some bullet points from that Clinton speech I liked. Some of them are opinions and some of them are basically redundant or rhetorical, but sadly, most of them are true. The actual article has lots of video clips to document some outrageous statements by The Leader.

-foreign-policy/]http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/hillary-clinton-attack-lines-donald-[Sleezebag]-foreign-policy/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/hillary-clinton-attack-lines-donald-[Sleezebag)

Clinton takes on [Sleezebag]: Her 34 toughest lines
By Gregory Krieg, CNN
Updated 10:45 AM ET, Fri June 3, 2016

New York (CNN) — Hillary Clinton on Thursday blitzed presumptive Republican nominee Donald [Sleezebag] with a barrage of pointed and sarcastic attacks, casting him as dangerous with a petulant streak that could threaten U.S. national and global security.

Here are 34 of her most fiery charges:

1. "Donald [Sleezebag]'s ideas aren't just different -- they are dangerously incoherent. They're not even really ideas, just a series of bizarre rants, personal feuds and outright lies."

2. "He's not just unprepared -- he's temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability and immense responsibility."

3. "This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes because it's not hard to imagine Donald [Sleezebag] leading us into a war just because somebody got under his very thin skin."

4. "We cannot put the safety of our children and grandchildren in Donald [Sleezebag]'s hands. We cannot let him roll the dice with America."

5. "He has no ideas on education. No ideas on innovation. He has lots of ideas about who to blame but no clue about what to do."

6. "This is a man who said that more countries should have nuclear weapons, including Saudi Arabia."

7. "This is someone who has threatened to abandon our allies in NATO -- the countries that work with us to root out terrorists abroad before they strike us at home."

8. "He believes we can treat the U.S. economy like one of his casinos and default on our debts to the rest of the world, which would cause an economic catastrophe far worse than anything we experienced in 2008."

9. "He has said that he would order our military to carry out torture and the murder of civilians who are related to suspected terrorists -- even though those are war crimes."

10. "He says he doesn't have to listen to our generals or ambassadors because he has -- quote -- 'a very good brain.' He also said, 'I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.' You know what? I don't believe him."

11. "He says climate change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, and has the gall to say that prisoners of war like John McCain aren't heroes. (Pauses for boos) Exactly."

12. "He praises dictators like Vladimir Putin and picks fights with our friends -- including the British prime minister, the mayor of London, the German chancellor, the president of Mexico and the Pope."

13. "We are not a country that cowers behind walls. We lead with purpose and we prevail."

14. "He says he has foreign policy experience because he ran the Miss Universe pageant in Russia."

15. "If Donald gets his way they'll be celebrating in the Kremlin."

16. "And to top it off, he believes America is weak. An embarrassment. He called our military a disaster. He said we are -- quote -- a 'third-world country.' And he's been saying things like that for decades. These are the words of someone who doesn't understand America or the world."

17. "If you really believe America is weak -- with our military, our values, our capabilities that no other country comes close to matching -- then you don't know America. And you certainly don't deserve to lead it."

18. "What's [Sleezebag]'s (ISIS plan)? Well, he won't say. He is literally keeping it a secret. The secret, of course, is he has no idea how to stop ISIS."

19. "Through all his loose talk there's one constant theme: demonizing Muslims and playing right into the hands of ISIS."

20. "Donald [Sleezebag] doesn't know the first thing about Iran or its nuclear program. Ask him -- it will become very clear very quickly."

21. "There's no risk of people losing their lives if you blow up a golf course deal. But it doesn't work like that in world affairs. Just like being interviewed on the same episode of '60 Minutes' as Putin was is not the same as actually dealing with Putin."

22. "We cannot put the lives of our young men and women in uniform in Donald [Sleezebag]'s hands."

23. "The stakes in global statecraft are infinitely higher and more complex than in the world of luxury hotels."

24. "We all know the tools Donald [Sleezebag] brings to the table -- bragging, mocking, composing nasty tweets. I am willing to bet he is writing a few right now."

25. "I don't understand Donald's bizarre fascination with dictators and strongmen who have no love for America."

26. "He praised China for the Tiananmen Square massacre -- he said it showed strength. He said, 'You've got to give Kim Jong Un credit' for taking over North Korea -- something he did by murdering everyone he saw as a threat, including his own uncle, which Donald described gleefully, like he was recapping an action movie."

27. "I will leave it to the psychiatrists to explain his affection for tyrants."

28. "I just wonder how anyone could be so wrong about who America's real friends are. Because it matters. Because if you don't know exactly who you're dealing with, men like Putin will eat your lunch."

29. "Every president faces hard choices every day, with imperfect information and conflicting imperatives. ... Making the right call takes a cool head and respect for the facts. It takes a willingness to listen to other people's points of view with a truly open mind. It also takes humility -- knowing you don't know everything -- because if you're convinced you're always right, you'll never ask yourself the hard questions."

30. "Now imagine Donald [Sleezebag] sitting in the Situation Room, making life-or-death decisions on behalf of the United States."

31. "Imagine him deciding whether to send your spouses or children into battle."

32. "Imagine if he had not just his Twitter account at his disposal when he's angry, but America's entire arsenal."

33. "Do we want him making those calls -- someone thin-skinned and quick to anger, who lashes out at the smallest criticism? Do we want his finger anywhere near the button?"

34. "Making Donald [Sleezebag] our commander-in-chief would be a historic mistake."

Clinton was right about [Sleezebag] tweeting during her remarks.

"Crooked Hillary Clinton, who I would love to call Lyin' Hillary, is getting ready to totally misrepresent my foreign policy positions," [Sleezebag] tweeted.

"Crooked Hillary no longer has credibility - too much failure in office. People will not allow another four years of incompetence!" read another.

[Sleezebag] added, "Bad performance by Crooked Hillary Clinton! Reading poorly from the telepromter! She doesn't even look presidential!"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 04, 2016, 04:47:02 AM
It's definitely highly pejorative when I use it, most especially when used in a context of governance.  Management should never look like a circus act not adept juggling and/or high-wire acts.

Hello President Roosevelt. Fitting you should visit this thread, as one of the strongest 3rd party candidates of all time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 04, 2016, 04:51:14 AM
:D  ...I'm not going to hog this one for long, either...  :D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 04, 2016, 05:50:00 AM
This is what got Paul Ryan upset, the day after he said he'd vote for [Sleezebag].
-tapper-lead/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-tapper-lead/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

[Sleezebag] defends criticism of judge with Mexican heritage

By Theodore Schleifer, CNN
Updated 5:48 PM ET, Fri June 3, 2016


Washington (CNN) — Donald [Sleezebag] on Friday vociferously defended his claims that a judge overseeing a lawsuit against [Sleezebag] University is biased because of his Mexican heritage -- pushing back against criticism that his objections are racist.

Speaking with CNN's Jake Tapper on "The Lead," [Sleezebag] repeatedly referenced his plans to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico and renegotiate trade agreements between the two countries.

The presumptive GOP nominee said U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel, a federal district judge in the Southern District of California, has made "rulings that people can't even believe."

"He's proud of his heritage. I respect him for that," [Sleezebag] said, dismissing charges that his allegation was racist. "He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico."

[Sleezebag] first broached these waters in an interview with The Wall Street Journal published Thursday, in which he said Curiel, who was born in Indiana, had an "inherent conflict of interest" in the [Sleezebag] University lawsuit.

"If he was giving me a fair ruling, I wouldn't say that," [Sleezebag] told Tapper, pointing again to Curiel's background. "I think that's why he's doing it."

"I'm building a wall. I'm trying to keep business out of Mexico. Mexico's fine," [Sleezebag] continued. "He's of Mexican heritage, and he's very proud of it, as I am of where I come from."

[Sleezebag] again called for Curiel to recuse himself from the case.

Last week, Curiel ordered parts of internal documents, including "playbooks" regarding running the enterprise, to be released as part of a lawsuit against [Sleezebag] University.

The documents were released in response to a request by The Washington Post.

[Sleezebag] also dismissed concerns raised by Hillary Clinton on Friday about his temperament when it comes to foreign policy. On Thursday, Clinton charged that [Sleezebag] had "thin skin" and should not be entrusted with the U.S. military arsenal.

"I don't have thin skin. I have very strong and very thick skin," [Sleezebag] replied Friday. "I have a strong temperament. It's a very good temperament and it's a very in-control temperament, or I wouldn't have built this unbelievable company. I wouldn't have built all of the things I've been able to do in life."

"You can't have that success without good temperament," [Sleezebag] continued. "We have been taken advantage of by everybody. We have people with weak temperaments."


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 04, 2016, 06:22:45 AM
Remember "The Post-Journalism Era in American Politics" ? Perhaps it's ending!

Trust [Sleezebag]. Believe [Sleezebag]. Because he's fighting a class action fraud lawsuit. 

-he-may-not-survive-it/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/06/03/the-media-have-reached-a-turning-point-in-covering-donald-[Sleezebag]-he-may-not-survive-it/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/06/03/the-media-have-reached-a-turning-point-in-covering-donald-[Sleezebag)

The media have reached a turning point in covering Donald [Sleezebag]. He may not survive it.
 By Paul Waldman June 3 at 12:44 PM 

The news media have come in for a lot of criticism in the way they’ve reported this election, which makes it exactly like every other election. But something may have changed just in the last few days. I have no idea how meaningful it will turn out to be or how long it will last.

But it’s possible that when we look back over the sweep of this most unusual campaign, we’ll mark this week as a significant turning point: the time when journalists finally figured out how to cover Donald [Sleezebag].

They didn’t do it by coming up with some new model of coverage, or putting aside what they were taught in journalism school. They’re doing it by rediscovering the fundamental values and norms that are supposed to guide their profession. (And for the record, even though I’m part of “the media” I’m speaking in the third person here because I’m an opinion writer, and this is about the reporters whose job it is to objectively relay the events of the day).

If this evolution in coverage takes hold, we can trace it to the combined effect of a few events and developments happening in a short amount of time. The first was [Sleezebag]’s press conference on Tuesday, the ostensible purpose of which was to answer questions about a fundraiser he held in January to raise money for veterans’ groups. In the course of the press conference, [Sleezebag] was at his petulant, abusive worst, attacking reporters in general and those in the room. “The political press is among the most dishonest people that I’ve ever met,” he said, saying to one journalist who had asked a perfectly reasonable question, “You’re a sleaze.” These kinds of criticisms are not new — anyone who has reported a [Sleezebag] rally can tell you how [Sleezebag] always tosses some insults at the press, at which point his supporters turn around and hurl their own abuse at those covering the event — but [Sleezebag] seemed particularly angry and unsettled.

To see how the press looked at that revealing event, it’s critical to understand what led to it. It happened because the Post’s David Fahrenthold and some other reporters did what journalists are supposed to do. They raised questions about [Sleezebag]’s fundraiser, and when they didn’t get adequate answers, they investigated, gathered facts, and asked more questions.

It was excellent work — time-consuming, difficult, and ultimately paying dividends in public understanding. And [Sleezebag]’s attack on them for doing their jobs the way those jobs are supposed to be done couldn’t have been better designed to get every other journalist to want to do the same. They’re no different than anyone else: When you make a direct attack on their professionalism, they’re likely to react by reaching back to their profession’s core values to demonstrate that they can live up to them. [Sleezebag] may have wanted to intimidate them, but it’s likely to have the opposite effect.

The same day as the press conference, a trove of documents from [Sleezebag] University was released as part of a class-action lawsuit accusing [Sleezebag] of fraud. The documents revealed allegations as to just what a scam that enterprise was: high-pressure sales tactics, nothing resembling knowledge being imparted to the “students,” people in financial trouble preyed upon and told to max out their credit cards to pay for more seminars and courses. Some of [Sleezebag]’s other schemes may have been comical, but as far as we know nobody was victimized too terribly by buying a [Sleezebag] Steak or a bottle of [Sleezebag] Vodka. [Sleezebag] University is something entirely different, and it’s not over yet; questions are now being raised about an investigation the Texas Attorney General’s office undertook of [Sleezebag] University, which concluded that it was cheating Texans out of large sums of money; the investigation was dropped by then-AG Greg Abbott, who later got $35,000 in contributions from [Sleezebag] and is now the state’s governor.

Plenty of presidential candidates have had shady doings in their pasts, but can you think of anything that compares to [Sleezebag] University? A party’s nominee allegedly running a con not just on unsuspecting victims, but on victims specifically chosen for their vulnerability and desperation? It’s no wonder that you can’t find any Republicans who’ll defend it, in a time when ordinarily you can get a partisan hack to justify almost anything their party’s leader is doing or has done.

Then you had [Sleezebag]’s continued attacks on the judge presiding over that fraud case. It’s unusual enough for a presidential candidate to be publicly attacking a judge in a case he’s involved in, but what’s most appalling is the blatant bigotry at the basis of [Sleezebag]’s criticisms. First [Sleezebag] would simply say that in addition to being biased against him the judge is “Mexican” (which is false — the judge was born in Indiana). Now [Sleezebag] says that because the judge is “of Mexican heritage” he should be removed from the case. “I’m building a wall. It’s an inherent conflict of interest,” he says. Given all the other demographic groups [Sleezebag] has insulted and offended, the natural conclusion would seem to be that only white male judges are fit to preside over [Sleezebag]’s many, many lawsuits.

Put together this series of developments coming one after together, and I suspect that many journalists are deciding that the way to cover [Sleezebag] is just to do it as honestly and assiduously as possible, which would itself be something almost revolutionary. If the tone of his coverage up until now has been “Wow, is this election crazy or what!” it could become much more serious — as it completely appropriate given that we’re choosing someone to hold the most powerful position on earth.

The change may be seen in ways both large and small. Yesterday, in a story about some of [Sleezebag]’s remarks, CNN ran a chyron reading “[Sleezebag]: I never said Japan should have nukes (he did)”. That kind of on-the-fly fact-checking is unusual, but [Sleezebag] necessitates it because he tells such a spectacularly large number of lies. He also enables it because those lies are often repeated and obvious. So we’re beginning to see those corrections appear right in the body of stories: the reporter relays what [Sleezebag] said, and notes immediately that it’s false.

[Sleezebag] himself probably finds such treatment grossly unfair, since to him “unfair” coverage is anything that doesn’t portray him in the most glowing terms. But it is perhaps ironic that after all this time of wondering how to cover this most unusual candidate, [Sleezebag] has shown the press that the best way to do it is to cover him like every candidate should be covered. That means not just planting a camera at his rallies and marveling at how nuts it all is, but doing to work to fully vet his background, correcting his lies as swiftly and surely as they can, exploring what a [Sleezebag] presidency would actually mean, and generally doing their jobs without letting him intimidate them.

If they can keep doing that, they’ll bring honor to their profession — and I doubt [Sleezebag]’s candidacy could survive it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 04, 2016, 08:11:41 AM
-question-then-followed-times/BwLCDfH5xg0p4UoBxiK4SN/story.html]https://www.bostonglobe.com/2016/06/03/jake-tapper-asked-donald-[Sleezebag]-question-then-followed-times/BwLCDfH5xg0p4UoBxiK4SN/story.html (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2016/06/03/jake-tapper-asked-donald-[Sleezebag)

Here's another case in point-

Jake Tapper asked Donald [Sleezebag] a question. He then followed up 23 times
By Callum Borchers The Washington Post  June 04, 2016

There’s persistent ... and then there’s Jake Tapper.

The CNN anchor posed the following question to Donald [Sleezebag] on Friday:


 
‘‘Let me ask you about comments you made about the judge in the [Sleezebag] University case. You said that you thought it was a conflict of interest that he was the judge because he is of Mexican heritage, even though he is from Indiana. Hillary Clinton said that that is a racist attack on a federal judge.’’

Actually, Tapper didn’t quite get to form a question. [Sleezebag] interjected to talk about Clinton’s emails. So Tapper tried to steer the conversation back to whether [Sleezebag]’s complaint about U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel was racist. [Sleezebag] deflected again. Tapper tried again. And again.

In all, Tapper made an astounding 23 follow-up attempts.
 
Tapper’s relentlessness ultimately paid off. He finally got a straight answer out of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

Tapper: ‘‘If you are saying he cannot do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism?’’
   
[Sleezebag]: ‘‘No, I don’t think so at all.’’

Tapper presumably had other subjects he would have liked to get to. [Sleezebag] likely figured as much and assumed he could stall long enough for his interviewer to move on. That’s usually how it goes.

But Tapper refused to drop the subject until [Sleezebag] offered a yes-or-no answer. It was clearly an exhausting effort. But it showed that even Donald J. [Sleezebag] can be worn down by a journalist who never gives up.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 05, 2016, 12:33:35 AM
The Atlantic Monthly has an article featuring letters from about 30 [Sleezebag] supporters. I'm presenting it as a counter to  "Hillary's 30 toughest lines". I'll just post the quotes. You can read them in their entirety here-

-voters/401408/]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/donald-[Sleezebag]-voters/401408/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/donald-[Sleezebag)


1.A Liberal Who Wants America to Win––“I feel that [Sleezebag] is our only hope in this next election. This is coming from someone who voted for Obama in the last election!”

2.An Anarchist Who Revels in Destruction––“Like the joker from The Dark Knight, I just want to see the world burn.”

3.[Sleezebag] is Low Risk, High Reward––“I will vote for Donald [Sleezebag] (and to a lesser extent Bernie Sanders) because he represents hope… And how much damage can he really do?”

4.[Sleezebag] Has a Drive for Perfection––“He will expect greatness from us, he will tell us how to get to great, he will inspire people to be better than they are and have the hope that their efforts will not be thwarted by bigger government.”

5.‘I Just Want to Watch the Chaos...’––“I'm a young guy who is immature, a bit antisocial, and with no plans for kids or a wife ever. At some level, I don’t really care how things go with America as long as it’s fun to watch.”

6.[Sleezebag] is a Moderate Compromiser––“His problem, according to the rest of the GOP, is that he wants single-payer health care and that he doesn’t want to completely defund Planned Parenthood. I don’t agree with him but why is it a bad thing to be moderate? A moderate has a special ability to be a liaison between the parties.”

7.[Sleezebag] is a Corrective to American Culture’s Pathologies––“The preeminence of political correctness among the culture class indicates a momentous shift away from formerly prominent middle-class cultural values towards something entirely different. Even if Donald [Sleezebag] were to accomplish little in his presidency, there is a hope that were he president, he could in some way alter that prevailing Washington/media culture, and set a new cultural tone.”

8.[Sleezebag] Knows It’s All a Joke––“Many are right; it’s not about trusting [Sleezebag]; it's a collective middle finger to the establishment… [Sleezebag] isn't stupid, he gets it. He knows the more outrageous, the better.”

9.[Sleezebag] Embodies the Rage of the White Middle Class––“Politicians spend no time helping them. Black lives matter more and illegal immigrants who break the law get a free pass. Evangelicals in this country no longer feel they have the right to religious freedom and have watched what they perceive as a sacred institution in marriage gutted. All the while, politicians they voted for to represent them just plain don’t.”

10.Desperate People Cast Desperate Votes––“Wall Street, the banks, and even illegal immigrants seem to be prospering more than the average American citizen. We are desperate.”

11.[Sleezebag] Has Successfully Run Large Organizations––“He leads an enormous, diversified organization that is worth billions. This requires leadership. Leadership, by the way, is different from knowledge. When you lead a large organization you set vision, goals and expect results. You do not know every detail of every level of your organization. You can’t. The world is just too complicated. You delegate and empower. You can get information when you need it and the president has no shortage of people ready to educate him on issues.”

12.[Sleezebag] is a Gamble Worth Taking––“I am of the belief that he is conceited and arrogant enough to avoid failing in front of the world at all cost.”

13.[Sleezebag] is Jay Gatsby––“Is it not better to place your chips on hopes and dreams rather than certain nightmares? Those of us who buy [Sleezebag]’s vision, nearly to the point of blind trust, are loudly professing our disgust with the current immoral situations that taint and threaten our blueprint of the American dream.”

14.[Sleezebag] is Bizarro Obama––“He’s got what Obama had in 2007 except he doesn’t have the press adoring him.”

15.[Sleezebag] is the Picture of American Greatness––“Think about John F. Kennedy or Ronald Reagan inspiring the world with leadership. Think of Babe Ruth, Martin Luther King Jr., Fred Rogers. The American 20th Century was a great one. Now think about the American headlines of today. What do you think of? War? Poverty? Political division? Do we see greatness in America still on a daily basis or even in the movies? The [Sleezebag] Family is the picture of the American Dream … When Donald [Sleezebag] says that he wants to make America great again, I believe him.”

16.[Sleezebag] Will Govern as Steve Jobs Managed––“He will sucker in talent, tell them that their work is terrible, push them to achieve beyond what they think is possible, and then take credit for their successes as he tells America, and the world, that their projects are the best thing that has ever happened. This works. It’s not pretty, but it works.”

17.[Sleezebag] is an Alpha-Male Who Loves America, Unlike Obama––“[Sleezebag] has never lied to me whereas all of the other Republican politicians (like McConnell & Boehner) have. They don’t fight for my side. Nobody fights for my side. [Sleezebag] fights. [Sleezebag] wins. I want an Alpha Male who is going to take it to the enemy. I am tired of supporting losers.”

18.[Sleezebag] Did Build That––“ONLY [Sleezebag] has ever BUILT any REAL THINGS.”

19.[Sleezebag] Has Consistently Championed Protectionism––“On the two primary issues as to why I’m supporting Mr. [Sleezebag] he has remained stunningly consistent.”

20.[Sleezebag] Put Illegal Immigration Front and Center––“We have horrendous problem with illegal aliens, sanctuary cities & crimes.”
 
21.[Sleezebag] Has the Tiger by the Tail––“The Tiger is the common working man that is tired of Politics and Washington continuing to screw us over... We want to give a businessman the chance to prove that this country can be great again!”

22.[Sleezebag] is Not Rehearsed––“What you see is what you see, all the cards are on the table.”

23.[Sleezebag]’s Nature is to Make the Best Deals Possible––“While [Sleezebag] may very well have his own best interests at heart it’s ok: his best interest is our best interest and that best interest is our property values and our economy. When our economy tanks, his property values go DOWN! If anyone would be interested in saving our country, it would be someone whose salary is directly tied to the value of the country we call the USA!”

24.[Sleezebag] is the Lead in a Fabulous Mockumentary––“I’d vote for the candidate purely for the comedic value.”

25.Bush Was a Disaster and Obama Felt Like One––“All a president has to do is not to be a completely incompetent moron, do a deal here and there, and make sure the most obvious things get done. It is really, really easy. But we can’t get a candidate through the party system that is not a completely incompetent moron. And no, we don’t think Donald [Sleezebag] is in it to help us. Or anyone else other than himself. But he has his pride.”

26.[Sleezebag] is an Egomaniac––“Because he is ‘crazy impulsive’ he has no qualms to step on toes when he is on a roll, and correctness (neither political or ethical) enters in his objective.”

27.14 Reasons for Supporting [Sleezebag]––“He oversees 20 thousand employees in multiple business entities in successful pursuit of 100’s of initiatives both domestic and worldwide.”

28.[Sleezebag] Has Successful Supporters––“I’m a college graduate, I have a Family, I work in an executive-level management position for a Fortune 500 company and I’m a homeowner. What I think you may find interesting is that I have a circle of friends, both men and women, who have similar concerns and backgrounds. We are all employed with excellent careers and we all are supporting [Sleezebag] for President.”

29.A Bernie Sanders Supporter Who’d Vote [Sleezebag] Over Clinton––“While he might not deliver on his promises, he would certainly be a bull in the China shop of contemporary American politics, which has long needed destroying and rebuilding.”

30.[Sleezebag] Could Make the Speech Police Go Away––“I’m in my early 30s and I grew up in San Francisco in a liberal home. And I have a very difficult time keeping up with all the various appropriate and inappropriate terms used to reference people and their causes. [Sleezebag] makes brash and uncompromising statements about issues many people feel very passionate about.”

​* * *

I'd like to address #15, in particular, because it reminds me of Alica Dearn's video about the first Amendment. ( third one down http://www.dearn2016.com/ (http://www.dearn2016.com/) ) The 1st Amendment is why America led the world in entertainment in the 20th Century.

Sure, Donald [Sleezebag] speaks out in an insult comic kind of way, but he's not at all about Free Speech, unless it's for himself. He's the man who wants to "loosen up libel laws" so that he can sue his critics. Well, not just his critics, but probably those that make him look bad too. Like those reporters who documented that fundraiser for veterans he had as an excuse to ditch a debate hadn't distributed all of the donations, particularly the $1 million he promised personally.

I guess that 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.'



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 05, 2016, 09:54:03 PM
Even Newt, who has been trying hard to become VP, criticizes [Sleezebag].

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/newt-gingrich-trumps-judge-comments-are-inexcusable/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/newt-gingrich-trumps-judge-comments-are-inexcusable/)

By/ Reena Flores/ CBS News/ June 5, 2016, 1:30 PM
Newt Gingrich: [Sleezebag]'s judge comments are "inexcusable"

Republican Newt Gingrich, a former speaker of the House and a staunch Donald [Sleezebag] backer, criticized his party's presumptive presidential nominee Sunday for his recent controversial comments on the federal judge presiding over a [Sleezebag] University lawsuit.

"This is one of the worst mistakes [Sleezebag] has made. I think it's inexcusable," Gingrich told Fox News Sunday. "He has every right to criticize a judge. He has every right to say certain decisions aren't right and his attorneys can file to move the venue from the judge. But first of all this judge was born in Indiana. He is an American. Period."

Gingrich urged [Sleezebag] to "move to a new level" for the general election.

"This is no longer the primaries," he said. "He's no longer an interesting contender. He is now the potential leader of the United States, and he's got to move his game up."

When asked if [Sleezebag]'s comments about the judge -- which included saying U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel was biased because he's "very strongly pro-Mexican" -- raised questions about his temperament, the ex-House speaker replied in the affirmative.

"Of course it does," Gingrich said.

Later, however, Gingrich did not back down from supporting [Sleezebag], despite his negative opinions of [Sleezebag]'s attacks on Curiel.

"Well compared to Hillary Clinton, I can support [Sleezebag] all year," he said. "Hillary Clinton will be an absolute disaster for the United States."

*****



The article continues, but this was the thrust.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 05, 2016, 10:01:20 PM
That's Grinch all over.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 05, 2016, 10:12:23 PM
Bernie vows a contested convention.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/04/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-convention/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/04/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-convention/)

Sanders: 'The Democratic National Convention will be a contested convention'
By Eugene Scott, CNN
Updated 11:29 PM ET, Sat June 4, 2016

"The media is in error when they lump superdelegates with pledged delegates. Pledged delegates are real," Sanders said. "Hillary Clinton will not have the requisite number of pledged delegates to win the Democratic nomination at the end of the nominating process on June 14. Won't happen. She will be dependent on superdelegates."

He vowed, "The Democratic National Convention will be a contested convention."

*****

The article goes on with delegate math, but you get the idea. Sanders will fight to the bitter end. Presumably, so will his "Bernie or Bust" bunch, and the "Occupy the DNC" bunch. More than that, the Democratic convention is in July, and the Green Convention is in August. Jill Stein is still holding the door open.

As Will Rogers famously said- "I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 06, 2016, 12:45:38 AM
Just have to say this because its bugged me since I started reading this thread. Why is [Sleezebag] aliased?

I don't think it is wise to alias just him and not Hillary and Sanders. As much of a tosser as the guy is, it looks really bad of the admins here, as if open discussion from the Republican side is not welcome.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 06, 2016, 12:55:19 AM
Some POVs go too far to be tolerated by decent people.  Period.  You may not give it free publicity in my house, just as you may not troll or express racist opinions.

It wants more than anything for us to say it's name.  If everyone hadn't been talking about the trashy publicity-[prostitute] celebrity and had treated it like the joke it is, we wouldn't be in this fix.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 06, 2016, 02:24:17 AM
Just have to say this because its bugged me since I started reading this thread. Why is T rump aliased?

I don't think it is wise to alias just him and not Hillary and Sanders. As much of a tosser as the guy is, it looks really bad of the admins here, as if open discussion from the Republican side is not welcome.

Just sayin'.

It was worse once upon a time, this is as much compromise as I could manage. 

The hard thing with free speech is allowing the kind you hate.  One day the world will be ready. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 06, 2016, 04:30:49 AM
Some POVs go too far to be tolerated by decent people.  Period.  You may not give it free publicity in my house, just as you may not troll or express racist opinions.

It wants more than anything for us to say it's name.  If everyone hadn't been talking about the trashy publicity-[prostitute] celebrity and had treated it like the joke it is, we wouldn't be in this fix.

It could also be pointed out that if the Left wasn't so adamant about destroying the traditional conservative Right, then the protest which has enabled [Sleezebag] wouldn't have occurred.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 06, 2016, 04:41:29 AM
[blinks]  No.

That was the Horse Race Factor in a post-journalism world.

You sound like an American when you make with the Reagan talk.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 06, 2016, 06:53:59 AM
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282261-sanders-clinton-foundation-engaged-in-conflicts-of (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282261-sanders-clinton-foundation-engaged-in-conflicts-of)

June 05, 2016, 10:03 am
Sanders hits Clinton Foundation over foreign donations
By Jessie Hellmann

Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders criticized the Clinton Foundation for accepting donations from foreign governments in an interview aired Sunday, calling it a conflict of interest.

"Do I have a problem when a sitting secretary of State and a foundation run by her husband collects many, many dollars from foreign governments — governments which are dictatorships?
"Yeah, I do have a problem with that. Yeah, I do," Sanders said on CNN's "State of the Union."

When host Jake Tapper asked if he thought it was a conflict of interest, Sanders said, "I do."

*****

I don't really know what's going on with the Clinton Foundation. There are a lot of allegations flying around, saying the e-mails led the FBI to The Clinton Foundation, and that there is a pending racketeering indictment with regard to the foundation. Possibly there is a coincidence between money laundered through the foundation and US foreign aid entities.

The trouble is the sources tend to be biased or sloppy. I'll be looking into this one, but I doubt if any thing will come of it soon, even if there's fire behind the smoke.

I still think that the Clinton's are sort of like base runners in baseball. They cheat and have both feet off of the bag at 1st, but they know exactly how much they can get away with. This sounds too greedy/stupid/obvious for them. They have no intention of getting thrown out.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 06, 2016, 07:14:26 AM
Gary Johnson appeared today on Meet the Press.

I think the interview was biased against him, because the introduction mentioned that the 1st president Johnson was nearly impeached, and the 2nd got us mired in Viet Nam.

I'll give Chuck Todd credit for persistently rephrasing his question in hopes of an answer- Aren't you a spoiler?

But I thought it was a disservice not to go after him on issues instead. For a lot of people, that was their first look at him. They probably wanted to know what his plans were with regard to controversial questions such as guns, abortion, gay marriage and taxes.

But probably most importantly, Johnson came across as a normal guy. Not the nut job they try to portray him as when they think he'll hurt them more than the opposition, and not as a liar.
I'd call it presidential.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 06, 2016, 07:36:31 AM
[blinks]  No.

That was the Horse Race Factor in a post-journalism world.

You sound like an American when you make with the Reagan talk.

Hahaha.

I only bring it up because I see the same mirrored here. Our ABC network which is the Govt public funded media network is a prime example of the Lefts attempt to destroy traditional conservative values. A survey of ABC presenters identified 40-odd% identify as Greens (far Left) and most of the remainder as ALP (Left). Not one single presenter of news or current affairs at the ABC identifies as Liberal (traditional conservative).

In fact to find any you have to go to Murdoch media. Every other network is predominantly and outspokenly Left.

The signs of protest are here too. The three main party's primary vote is dropping. Independant and Right wing minors polling is up to 15% and growing. This is the highest its ever been. With a month till election that percentage still could grow a lot more as the main partys disenfranchise voters with their war on traditional conservatives.

With our preference voting method the chances are very high of a hung Parliament.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 06, 2016, 09:49:25 PM
Here's the hard numbers from the latest poll. Essentially the negatives on both Hillary and The Donald are  increasing. The race is getting tighter.

-narrows-as-disappointment-with-choices-grows/]http://www.investors.com/politics/clintons-lead-over-[Sleezebag]-narrows-as-disappointment-with-choices-grows/ (http://www.investors.com/politics/clintons-lead-over-[Sleezebag)

Clinton’s Lead Over [Sleezebag] Narrows; Libertarian Gary Johnson Gets 11%
JOHN MERLINE
1:55 PM ET

Hillary Clinton’s lead over Donald [Sleezebag] narrowed slightly in the latest IBD/TIPP Poll, which finds her ahead of [Sleezebag] by 45% to 40%. Last month, Clinton was head ahead 47% to 40%

But the poll finds widespread dissatisfaction with the two presumptive nominees. In fact, little-known Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson gets a surprisingly large 11% of the vote when he’s included in the mix. The former New Mexico governor draws almost equally from Hillary and [Sleezebag] — who get 39% and 35%, respectively, in a three-way race.

What’s more, the IBD/TIPP Poll finds that both Clinton and [Sleezebag] get extremely low ratings on favorability and trustworthiness, and few say they strongly support their party’s nominee.

Clinton’s favorability took a hit this month. Just 39% say they have a favorable view of her, down from 43% last month. In fact, at 61%, her unfavorable score is now virtually tied with [Sleezebag], who gets a 63% unfavorable rating.

The public also views both Clinton and [Sleezebag] as untrustworthy, although [Sleezebag] does slightly better. The poll finds that 63% say Clinton is “not honest and trustworthy,” compared with 58% who view [Sleezebag] that way.

Neither candidate gets enthusiastic support from their backers. Just 38% of Clinton voters say they strongly support her, while 40% of [Sleezebag] voters express strong support for him.

Over the weekend, [Sleezebag] came under attacks from Republicans for disparaging comments he made about a judge who is presiding over a lawsuit involving the now defunct [Sleezebag] University. On Sunday, Newt Gingrich, who was being talked up as a possible [Sleezebag] running mate, called [Sleezebag]’s comments “inexcusable” and the “worst mistake” he’s made as a candidate.

The nationwide poll was conducted from May 31 through June 5, and included 908 adults, giving it an overall margin of error of +/- 3.3 percentage points.

The only good news for Hillary in this month’s poll is that support for her rival in the primaries has all but collapsed. The poll finds that just 37% of Democrats and those leaning Democratic say they back Sen. Bernie Sanders, which is down from 43% last month. Clinton’s support climbed from 49% to 51%, which means her lead among Democrats went from 6 points last month to 14 points now.

The Clinton camp is hoping that she can win enough delegates Tuesday to put her over the top, with primaries held in California, New Jersey, New Mexico, Montana, and North and South Dakota. Yet, in another sign of their tepid approval of Clinton, 53% of Democrats say Sanders should stay in the race.

The poll also found that 66% of those following the story closely now say that Clinton’s use of a private e-mail server while secretary of state likely compromised national security, which is up from 64% last month. More than a third of Democrats (37%) feel this way.

But more than half of Democrats (58%) say that she should continue to run for president, even if “the outcome of the FBI investigation finds that Hillary Clinton broke the law.”

Overall, 65% of those following the story say she should drop out of the race if the FBI finds she broke the law. Among independents, 71% would want her to quit.

Nearly two-thirds (62%) say Clinton should release transcripts of the three speeches she gave to Goldman Sachs in 2013, which earned Clinton $675,000 and have been brought up by Sanders as evidence that she’s in the pocket of Wall Street.

Overall, Hillary made nearly $22 million in speeches in just two years after she left the State Department. The IBD/TIPP Poll finds that 52% say the lucrative fees “raise concerns about Hillary Clinton as an ethical public figure.” Among Democrats, 30% say the speaking fees raise such concerns, as do 59% of independents.

Other findings:
More than half the public (51%) now approve of the job Obama is doing as president. As recently as March, his approval rating was only 46%.
However, 61% say the country is headed in the wrong direction, 51% are dissatisfied with federal economic policies, and just 36% say Obama is providing strong leadership for the country.
The share of job-sensitive households — those where either someone is unemployed or is worried about losing a job — ticked up to 31% in June from 29% in May.
Just 31% give the TSA a good rating on its performance handling airport security. However, despite massive waits to get through security, just 33% say that airport screening should be turned over to private security companies.

Methodology

The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted May 31 through June 5, 2016, surveying 908 Americans, giving it an overall margin of error of +/- 3.3 percentage points. The poll was taken by live interviewers using both land and cellphones.

The unweighted sample size for registered Republicans and Republican leaners was 421, with a margin of error +/- 4.9 percentage points. For Democrats and Democratic leaners, the sample size was 351, with a margin of error of +/- 5.3 percentage points.

For a more thorough explanation of how the poll was conducted, IBD/TIPP Poll’s track record in past presidential elections and the complete survey results, click here.





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 07, 2016, 12:59:33 AM
-orders-surrogates-to-intensify-criticism-of-judge-and-journalists]http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-06/[Sleezebag]-orders-surrogates-to-intensify-criticism-of-judge-and-journalists (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-06/[Sleezebag)

Surrogates to Intensify Criticism of Judge and Journalists

During a Monday conference call with supporters, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee overruled a directive sent out by his own campaign.
June 6, 2016 — 3:08 PM CDT

Updated on June 6, 2016 — 4:22 PM CDT



An embattled Donald [Sleezebag] urgently rallied his most visible supporters to defend his attacks on a federal judge's Mexican ancestry during a conference call on Monday in which he ordered them to question the judge's credibility and impugn reporters as racists.

"We will overcome," [Sleezebag] said, according to two supporters who were on the call and requested anonymity to share their notes with Bloomberg Politics. "And I’ve always won and I’m going to continue to win. And that’s the way it is."

There was no mention of apologizing or backing away from his widely criticized remarks about U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who is overseeing cases against the [Sleezebag] University real-estate program.


When former Arizona Governor Jan Brewer interrupted the discussion to inform [Sleezebag] that his own campaign had asked surrogates to stop talking about the lawsuit in an e-mail on Sunday, [Sleezebag] repeatedly demanded to know who sent the memo, and immediately overruled his staff.

"Take that order and throw it the hell out," [Sleezebag] said.

Told the memo was sent by Erica Freeman, a staffer who circulates information to surrogates, [Sleezebag] said he didn't know her. He openly questioned how the campaign could defend itself if supporters weren't allowed to talk.

"Are there any other stupid letters that were sent to you folks?" [Sleezebag] said. "That's one of the reasons I want to have this call, because you guys are getting sometimes stupid information from people that aren't so smart."

Brewer, who was on the call with prominent Republicans like Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi and former Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown, interjected again. "You all better get on the page," she told him.

In response, [Sleezebag] said that he aspired to hold regular calls with surrogates in order to coordinate the campaign's message, a role usually reserved for lower ranking staffers than the nominee himself.

The e-mailed memo, sent by Freeman on Sunday, was cc'd to campaign manager Corey Lewandowski; Hope Hicks, [Sleezebag]'s top communications staffer; and Rick Gates, a top aide to campaign chairman Paul Manafort. It informed surrogates that "they're not authorized to discuss matters concerning the [Sleezebag] Organization including corporate news such as the [Sleezebag] University case.”

"The best possible response is ‘the case will be tried in the courtroom in front of a jury—not in the media,’” according to the e-mail, obtained by Bloomberg Politics.

Hicks declined to address the specifics of the conversation with surrogates. 

"The call was scheduled in order for Mr. [Sleezebag] to thank his supporters and congratulate everyone as the primaries officially come to an end," Hicks told Bloomberg Politics. "Many topics were discussed and it was a productive call for all parties."

[Sleezebag]'s five weeks as the presumptive nominee have been marked by several missteps: A refusal to release his tax returns, confusion among donors over which super-PAC to give money, audio of him using a pseudonym to act as his own publicist, failing to donate to veterans groups as promised until pressed by the media.

But the most incendiary controversy has been his handling of [Sleezebag] University.

[Sleezebag] ignited the controversy when he defended his real-estate program by saying Curiel has an inherent conflict of interest because of his Mexican heritage, because the candidate has proposed building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border to curb illegal immigration. Curiel was born in Indiana, and [Sleezebag]'s complaint has been criticized by Republican leaders, legal experts, and other commentators. [Sleezebag] on Sunday broadened his argument by saying on CBS that it’s possible a Muslim judge could treat him unfairly too, because of his proposed ban on Muslim immigration.

"I should have won this thing years ago," [Sleezebag] said on the call about the case, adding that Curiel is a "member of La Raza." Curiel is affiliated with La Raza Lawyers of California, a Latino bar association.

A clearly irritated [Sleezebag] told his supporters to attack journalists who ask questions about the lawsuit and his comments about the judge.

"The people asking the questions—those are the racists," [Sleezebag] said. "I would go at 'em."

Suggesting a broader campaign against the media, [Sleezebag] said the campaign should also actively criticize television reporters. "I'd let them have it," he said, referring to those who [Sleezebag] portrayed as hypocrites.

*****



He must be a terribly difficult fellow for which to work. Especially if you're not allowed to laugh at him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 07, 2016, 05:35:52 AM
Today's gleanings-

* Obama is about to endorse Hillary, maybe after the polls close Tues. Like lots of elections, the outcome depends on which voters turn out. But since the delegates are awarded proportionately, it would take a Sanders blowout to deny Hillary the nomination.

* Sanders is feeling a lot of pressure to get out, including a call from Obama Sunday. Bernie doesn't want to leave the race, he thinks he's the only person who can save the country from [Sleezebag]. He has concerns about Clinton scandals bubbling below the surface.

*Remember when I said how Hillary failed to appoint an Inspector General in the State Department on her watch, so there wasn't one?  Today I read that the Clinton Foundation hasn't been audited, that Clinton has not reported the foreign donors to Obama as promised ( so as to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest) , and that in the years 2010, 2011, and 2012 they reported zero foreign contributions to the IRS. Now they are revising their tax returns, not unusual in such an organization, but to revise 3 consecutive years is unheard of in a charity.

Boring reading. Surprisingly I wasn't mad that the foundation was taking money from Russian and middle Eastern interests while the State Department was signing off on uranium and arms deals, or that the foundation's claims don't reconcile. I simply thought that it sounded like the Clintons whole career. They make the rules, not abide by them. They're above it all.

I think it will take a while to come out. If it will amount to more than Congressional hearings, I have no idea. Presuming she is the next president, you can guarantee Congressional hearings.

* Johnson is certainly making the rounds or radio, TV and major media. It's interesting to see the venomous misrepresentation of his positions from both sides. Somebody commented that Ralph Nader proved third parties can't work. I had to laugh. No, they demonstrated that the system is rigged against third parties. Third parties have been successful in addressing issues. There would have been no balanced budgets if there had been no Ross Perot to explain that all of the taxes west of the Mississippi went o pay interest on the debt.

*I think that's the problem with the 2 party system. It rewards negativity.
When there's an established 3rd party dynamics will change. Subtracting from one won't automatically add to you.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 01:35:34 PM
Sanders should run 3rd party...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 01:49:44 PM
Really he shouldn't.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 01:58:39 PM
I think Clinton loses a negative campaign to [Sleezebag] anyway, so I'm not worried about splitting the Dem vote. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 02:02:26 PM
Faith isn't exactly the right word for it, but I think when it's time to vote for keepsies, people will stop playing with their own poop.  Not even going to be close.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 03:28:16 PM
Never underestimate the stupidity of people. 

"A person is smart.  People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals."  Kay - Men in Black. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 03:32:45 PM
More to my point.  I'm doubling down on my original statement on the whole scenario.  [Sleezebag] is not going away.  You can't go negative on him as that's his ballgame.  The only way to beat him is to wear him down on the actual issues (it's the only time ANYONE had success on him in the primaries, btw, as I predicted.  But then they forgot) that he is in NO WAY ready to give competent answers to. 

HOWEVER, The Dems are ALREADY going negative on him, playing his game.  With a (presumptive) candidate that has just as many negatives, no less.  They are playing right into his hand, and it's a losing prospect. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 04:43:33 PM
They've been doing that since Reagan - playing the other guy's game and losing, the idiots.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 07, 2016, 08:13:29 PM
Finally!

Real Clear Politics is tracking Johnson in the polls with an 8.5% average. Double that, and he's in the debates.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html)

As for the latest poll, it was taken in Utah-
[Sleezebag]    29%
Clinton   26%
Johnson 16% ( presumably he's better known here, close to New Mexico )
Other     29% ( presumably mostly Romney holdouts )

Even so, 16% is a respectable for Johnson when he has to compete against "Other".

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/07/gary-johnson-polls-16-in-utah (http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/07/gary-johnson-polls-16-in-utah)

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 08:21:49 PM
"Other" is pretty dang popular this year...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 07, 2016, 09:08:47 PM
More to my point.  I'm doubling down on my original statement on the whole scenario.  T rump is not going away.  You can't go negative on him as that's his ballgame.  The only way to beat him is to wear him down on the actual issues (it's the only time ANYONE had success on him in the primaries, btw, as I predicted.  But then they forgot) that he is in NO WAY ready to give competent answers to. 

HOWEVER, The Dems are ALREADY going negative on him, playing his game.  With a (presumptive) candidate that has just as many negatives, no less.  They are playing right into his hand, and it's a losing prospect.


What you say often reminds me a lot of Scott Adams' blog  ( the creator of Dilbert). Perhaps not the same perspective, but equally provocative, and prescient. He has a background in hypnosis, and constantly makes the point that people are irrational, that [Sleezebag] understands that, and is a Master Persuader.

Mostly he just explains why what [Sleezebag] said works, and why what Hillary or whoever said fails.
Here's a recent one.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-for-president-of-the-united-states (http://blog.dilbert.com/post/145456082991/my-endorsement-for-president-of-the-united-states)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 07, 2016, 09:43:50 PM
Today's gleanings-

*... stuff...

Had to LOL, a lot of what I said over at WPC in response to one of the regulars over there matches up with what you were saying, although I left a lot of the detail out as I was doing a specific response to someone.  Just a lot of my own thoughts in there is all. 

BTW, I doubt she will ever be indited for being a traitor (Libya & emails, et all), nor will her foundation ever really be audited, as it is basically their pocket book, and they have too many friends (or at least people who don't want the skellies dug out of their own closets). 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Finally!

Real Clear Politics is tracking Johnson in the polls with an 8.5% average. Double that, and he's in the debates.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson-5949.html)

As for the latest poll, it was taken in Utah-
T rump    29%
Clinton   26%
Johnson 16% ( presumably he's better known here, close to New Mexico )
Other     29% ( presumably mostly Romney holdouts )

Even so, 16% is a respectable for Johnson when he has to compete against "Other".

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/07/gary-johnson-polls-16-in-utah (http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/07/gary-johnson-polls-16-in-utah)




The never [Sleezebag] contingent is strong in Utah.  Many think Hillary would win the state if it come down to it. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 09:49:51 PM
FWIW,  if I didn't have this thread, I wouldn't know who Johnson is. 

He's got a megacrapton of ground to make up if he's going to make a serious splash.  I don't know HOW to get the numbers up in order to be in the debate, but he's got to do something. 

A series of "There IS a third option" type TV ads might not be misplaced.  (or maybe Utah just isn't worth spending money on) 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 09:57:36 PM
A series of "There IS a third option" type TV ads might not be misplaced.
I don't know if God Almighty Himself could get Johnson elected, but enough of those commercials you describe -in a way, nothing but a pic of him with his name on it and that slogan, 5 second spots, would be best- alone would guarantee 15-20 % in the general and a foot in the door for the Libertarians in the future...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 07, 2016, 10:27:09 PM
Right, he just needs the 16% to get in the debates.  That ALONE would be a huge victory. 

Picture, Name, There IS a third option! 


Hell, give me the yard sign with name and slogan now.  Bumper stickers will sell themselves. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 07, 2016, 10:58:44 PM
You just saved the Libertarians' shot at the big leagues, if Rusty can spread that idea far enough in time...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 01:58:20 AM
I relayed it to Gary's face book page.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 08, 2016, 02:34:15 AM
Nice sig.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 02:55:42 AM
Today's gleanings-

*... stuff...

Had to LOL, a lot of what I said over at WPC in response to one of the regulars over there matches up with what you were saying, although I left a lot of the detail out as I was doing a specific response to someone.  Just a lot of my own thoughts in there is all. 

BTW, I doubt she will ever be indited for being a traitor (Libya & emails, et all), nor will her foundation ever really be audited, as it is basically their pocket book, and they have too many friends (or at least people who don't want the skellies dug out of their own closets).

Well, it's always nice to know that somebody reached a similar conclusion.


I hope you're right about Hillary. Because as much as I hate her, or maybe because I hate her, all I want her to do is get out of my television and go away.  Before anybody says anything, my wife likes to watch TV, and operates the remote. Happy wife, happy life.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 03:04:04 AM
Nice sig.

Thanks. I think I owe Uno a consulting fee.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 08, 2016, 03:12:43 AM
What did you say on Johnson's FB page?  His campaign keeping it simple and short is KEY...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 04:54:33 AM
I lost my post.

Anyway I can't find my post on his facebook page, but it's a pretty crowded place, and I typed an extra R in his name. Somebody try's to keep the links to his interviews on the top.

I said something like my friends are convinced now, and they say you need to get this message out - (see sigline) .


Generally he does a pretty good job of thanking people for their support on facebook. But things are getting busy. From his previous run for president he learned a few things- 1) The GOP doesn't want him. 2)  He sucks at fundraising. ( hence teaming up with Bill Weld ) 3) He needs to be included in the polling 4) He needs to be on the debate stage. If he can deal with those things, he can win in a year where anything can happen.

He knows he got a big surge in activity when Cruz dropped out. He's anticipating a huge influx when Bernie does as well. He's been going around telling his isidewith.com story. He sides with himself 100% of the time, but the next Closest is Bernie at 73% . There's a T in the road when it comes to economics, but they generally agree on civil liberties, foreign policy, and  crony capitalism. He says he believes most Americans are Libertarians, and don't know it. In broad terms, fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

We've never elected a 3rd Party candidate, but we've never elected an ex-president's wife or a reality TV star either. That is about to change.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 05:12:39 AM
Primary reports-
Sanders- North Dakota
Clinton-  New Jersey, South Dakota, Montana, New Mexico

California is still being counted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 08, 2016, 05:20:36 AM
:(
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 06:23:53 AM
Today's Gleanings.
*Hillary will be the first woman to become a major party candidate for president.

*Bernie vows to fight on to the convention on behalf of the working families of America.

*Republicans denounced [Sleezebag]. One US Senator and one state senator -un-endorsed him.

*[Sleezebag] released a statement saying he's not racist, he's got lots of Mexican friends. The judge is being unfair to him, anybody else would have dismissed this case and they're only after him because he's running for president, and the judge was appointed by Obama, etc. [Sleezebag] will not speak of this again!

*As previously stated, Johnson is now being tracked by Politifact.

************

So, 1) he secured the Libertarian nomination, which should put him on the ballot in all fifty states. Most are approved or in process, with a couple left. 2) He teamed with Bill Weld, for fund raising and have the support of the newly formed Alternative PAC. 3) Now with Politifact listing and averaging the polls that include him ....step 4) is crossing and sustaining to circa Labor Day the 15% threshold for the Commission on Presidential Debates, so as to be included, OR 5) winning the lawsuit filed jointly by the Libertarians and the Greens saying the 15% threshold is too high.

Personally, I think that any legally qualified candidate polling in double digits and ballot access in states totaling 270 electoral college votes has a theoretical chance and should be included in the official debates. The commission was formed in '88 ( when Perot ran )when the Dems and GOP made demands of the League of Women Voters that they considered fraud against the American people. Since most judges are Democrats or Republicans, don't hold your breath on that lawsuit being settled this year in time for the debates.  I'm confident Johnson can exceed 15%. I think he'll peak higher than that. Whether he can hold that through to Labor Day considering that the Greens are holding the door open for Bernie and don't convene until August, after the July conventions of the Democrats and Republicans remains to be seen in a year where anything can happen, and already has.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 06:32:59 AM
:(

Sorry to see that myself. Clinton is ahead roughly 60/40 with 1/3rd reporting. I've been to CA several times, but I haven't a clue which counties are which, and how they would break between Hillary and Bernie. So I'm not watching the tallies on TV. I think my wife would rather watch The Bachelorette than Hillary and a Socialist.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 08, 2016, 04:21:30 PM
Quote
He says he believes most Americans are Libertarians, and don't know it. In broad terms, fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

That's the other thing he's going to struggle with.  What IS a libertarian?  One of them fringe nutjob parties.  Extremists.  etc.  That's the PERCEPTION.  He's gotta sell the brand eventually.  First he's gotta get on stage, and that mean name/face recognition. 

This is a good year to sell the libertarian as the common sense party.  Let the dems and reps go down and dirty on each other as long as possible, and come out as the common sense in a world of crap politics.  There's a timing issue on this, though.  I'm not sure WHEN it would be best to start selling that, as giving Trumpillary a common enemy will be a bad thing, so it's likely a short term gain, plant the seed of thought into people for the future scenario, but it needs to be done. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 09:46:36 PM
Yeah, it's a big job, and timing is critical.

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/vb.165297924363/10153136575584364/?type=2&theater (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/vb.165297924363/10153136575584364/?type=2&theater)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 08, 2016, 10:07:09 PM
No, he's got that all wrong. 

Clearly targeting bernie's folk, but it's terribly off still.  The whole aw shucks demeanor followed by the smooth jazz out music is all wrong.  Get some fire in the speech dude!  He don't sound ready to fight anyone.

The (slightly modified) slogan was stuck in there though!   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 08, 2016, 10:19:11 PM
His campaign keeping it simple and short is KEY...

That's where he's failing in the video. 

Too long, too much garbage about Clinton.  Cut that video to a third, stick to:  Still feeling the Bern? WE can still FIGHT.  Libertarian party will be on the ballot in all 50 states.  There IS another option!  Google me and make your voices heard. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 08, 2016, 10:52:52 PM
Someone closed my politics thread at WPC without even a note as to why....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 08, 2016, 10:58:34 PM
Someone closed my politics thread at WPC without even a note as to why....

I'm sorry to hear that.
Well, you're welcome here. Everybody needs to vent or rant now and then.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 08, 2016, 11:34:57 PM
I told Solver to fire the guilty party - that's no way to step on the most life an OTf has seen all year, as risky as politics threads are...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 08, 2016, 11:59:27 PM
Someone closed my politics thread at WPC without even a note as to why....

Only just noticed that.  That's absolute crap!  I didn't see anything wrong with what was being posted.  It was great to see ZKrib all fired up like that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 09, 2016, 12:36:19 AM
Yeah.  He's such a mellow, measured guy - great to see passion.

Bad.  Judgment. ;b;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 09, 2016, 02:15:03 PM
Take it, Rusty!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 09, 2016, 02:16:55 PM
Don't care for the nike swoosh.  Don't want to affiliate with sweat shops. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 09, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
It's symbolic of a checkmark - but I was looking for the double-wave/sine thingy they use on these, and didn't see it in a quick googling.  A version's saved as layers, so if anyone can find something better, I'll swap it in...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 09, 2016, 07:28:39 PM
Thank you, Buncle.

I haven't been well the last 24 hours. There are a couple of things I wanted to add to the thread.

Ron Paul is not endorsing anybody this year , but he has gotten off of the fence and said- "Vote Libertarian Party"

There's an article about the Sanders Campaign I wanted to post.

[Sleezebag] is still flying by the seat of his pants.

Yesterday I was watching Johnson clips with ear buds instead of reading, mostly. While Johnson has a number of talking points he continually hits, it's some of the anecdotes that I find particularly interesting. Maybe I'll get to some of those in summary today, with links.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 01:01:55 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/bernie-sanders-campaign-last-days-224041 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/bernie-sanders-campaign-last-days-224041)


Inside the bitter last days of Bernie's revolution

For better and for worse, Sanders made all the big decisions.

There’s no strategist pulling the strings, and no collection of burn-it-all-down aides egging him on. At the heart of the rage against Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party, the campaign aides closest to him say, is Bernie Sanders.

It was the Vermont senator who personally rewrote his campaign manager’s shorter statement after the chaos at the Nevada state party convention and blamed the political establishment for inciting the violence.

He was the one who made the choice to go after Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz after his wife read him a transcript of her blasting him on television.

He chose the knife fight over calling Clinton unqualified, which aides blame for pulling the bottom out of any hopes they had of winning in New York and their last real chance of turning a losing primary run around.

And when Jimmy Kimmel’s producers asked Sanders’ campaign for a question to ask Donald [Sleezebag], Sanders himself wrote the one challenging the Republican nominee to a debate.

There are many divisions within the Sanders campaign—between the dead-enders and the work-it-out crowds, between the younger aides who think he got off message while the consultants got rich and obsessed with Beltway-style superdelegate math, and between the more experienced staffers who think the kids got way too high on their sense of the difference between a movement and an actual campaign.

But more than any of them, Sanders is himself filled with resentment, on edge, feeling like he gets no respect -- all while holding on in his head to the enticing but remote chance that Clinton may be indicted before the convention.

Campaign manager Jeff Weaver, who’s been enjoying himself in near constant TV appearances, and the candidate’s wife Jane Sanders, are fully on board. But convinced since his surprise Michigan win that he could actually win the nomination, Sanders has been on email and the phone, directing elements of the campaign right down to his city-by-city schedule in California. He wants it. He thinks it should be his.

“Bernie’s been at the helm of this campaign from the beginning,” said Weaver, “and the overall message of this campaign and the direction of the campaign and the strategy, has been driven by Bernie.”

Convinced as Sanders is that he’s realizing his lifelong dream of being the catalyst for remaking American politics—aides say he takes credit for a Harvard Kennedy School study in April showing young people getting more liberal, and he takes personal offense every time Clinton just dismisses the possibility of picking him as her running mate—his guiding principle under attack has basically boiled down to a feeling that multiple aides sum up as: “Screw me? No, screw you.”

Take the combative statement after the Nevada showdown.

“I don’t know who advised him that this was the right route to take, but we are now actively destroying what Bernie worked so hard to build over the last year just to pick up two [intercourse gerund] delegates in a state he lost,” rapid response director Mike Casca complained to Weaver in an internal campaign email obtained by POLITICO.

“Thank you for your views. I’ll relay them to the senator, as he is driving this train,” Weaver wrote back.

In the run-up to the California primary, the big strategic question was how much to modulate the tone of the letter to superdelegates that he's been preparing to send out Wednesday, building on the case that Sen. Jeff Merkley, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, former Sen. Paul Kirk and former Communication Workers of America president Larry Cohen have been making to fellow superdelegates over the phone for weeks about polls and other factors that would make Sanders the more competitive general election candidate.

This isn’t about what’s good for the Democratic Party in his mind, but about what he thinks is good for advancing the agenda that he’s been pushing since before he got elected mayor of Burlington.

Sanders owns nearly every major decision, right down to the bills. A conversation with former Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin about getting left in personal debt from his own 1992 presidential campaign has stayed at the top of Sanders’ mind.

He demanded that the campaign bank account never go under $10 million, even when that’s meant decisions Weaver and campaign architect Tad Devine have protested -- like making the call in the final days before Kentucky to go with digital director Kenneth Pennington’s plan to focus on data and field, instead of $300,000 to match Clinton on TV.

Sanders ultimately lost there by just 1,924 votes.

Sanders and aides laugh at the idea that he’s damaging the party and hurting Clinton. They think they don’t get enough gratitude for how much they held back, from not targeting more Democratic members of the House and Senate who opposed him to not making more of an issue out of Clinton’s email server investigation and Bill Clinton’s sex scandals, all of which they discussed as possible lines of attack in the fall. They blame Clinton going after him on gun control for goading him into letting loose on her Goldman Sachs speeches.

“If they hadn’t started at it by really going hard at him on guns, raising a series of issues against him, that really was what led to him being much, much more aggressive than he otherwise would have been,” said Devine, the consultant who helped engineer Sanders’ plans for a protest candidacy into a real campaign (and convinced him to run as a Democrat).

Since he finished approving the ads for California not long after the Kentucky strategy spat, Devine has been back home in Rhode Island, noticeably missing from cable news as a surrogate but still regularly in touch with Sanders. Devine, who’s been more anxious about what an endgame looks like, says he hasn’t heard anything from the senator that suggests he would alter his plans because of the Clinton campaign’s eagerness to have President Barack Obama endorse her and declare the primaries done.

“They would be very smart to understand that the best way to approach Bernie is not to try to push him around,” Devine said. “It’s much better if they try to cooperate with him and find common ground. They should be mindful of the fact that the people he’s brought into this process are new to it and they will be very suspicious of any effort to push him around.”

Aides say Sanders thinks that progressives who picked Clinton are cynical, power-chasing chickens — like Sen. Sherrod Brown, one of his most consistent allies in the Senate before endorsing Clinton and campaigning hard for her ahead of the Ohio primary. Sanders is so bitter about it that he’d be ready to nix Brown as an acceptable VP choice, if Clinton ever asked his advice on who’d be a good progressive champion.

* * *


Every time Sanders got into a knife fight, aides say, they ended up losing. But they could never stop Sanders when he got his back up.

Coming off walloping Clinton in the Wisconsin primary in April, the first internal numbers from campaign pollster Ben Tulchin showed Sanders within range in New York’s pivotal contest two weeks later. Though some senior aides say they realize now the dynamics of the state and the closed primary meant they never really had a shot, they also blame coverage of his New York Daily News interview and the blowup over calling Clinton “not qualified” for taking New York off the table.

Losing Pennsylvania the following week was another body blow, one of four losses in five states that night.

In the days following, before Sanders scored his win in Indiana that campaign aides feel no one acknowledged because it came the same night [Sleezebag] locked up the Republican nomination, the calls started coming in from Democratic power brokers.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid’s call was part advice, part asking a favor, urging Sanders to use his now massive email list to help Democratic Senate candidates. Russ Feingold in Wisconsin was the most obvious prospect, and Reid wanted to make introductions to Iowa’s Patty Judge and North Carolina’s Deborah Ross—to help Democrats win the majority, but also to give Sanders allies in making himself the leader of the Senate progressives come next year.

Reid, according to people familiar with the conversation, ended the discussion thinking Sanders was on board. He backed Feingold. But that’s the last anyone heard.

Word got back to Reid’s team that Weaver had nixed the idea, ruling out backing anyone who hadn’t endorsed Sanders. Weaver says it’s because the Senate hopefuls had to get in line for Sanders’ support behind top backers like Gabbard and Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.)—though neither has a competitive race this year.

Sanders never followed up himself.
 


CALIFORNIA PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY RESULTS




California
 Presidential Primaries, June 7, 2016

Democratic100% Reporting

Delegates Allocated: 543/546

Delegates


Winner H. Clinton
55.8%
 
1,940,580 336

B. Sanders
43.2%
 
1,502,043 207

W. Wilson
0.3%
 
8,709 

M. Steinberg
0.2%
 
7,905 

R. De La Fuente
0.2%
 
5,780 

K. Judd
0.2%
 
5,433 



Updated: 6/8/16 9:04 PM ET | Source: AP



Just before they all figured they’d see each other at the White House Correspondents Dinner, a call from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta came in to Devine, who’s seen by most in the Clinton camp as the only senior aide to Sanders whom Clinton’s staff feels is actually open to a conversation, though Weaver and Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook have checked in with each other occasionally as well.

“I’m ready to talk,” Podesta said, though, “I don’t have a peace pipe or anything.”

Devine brought the idea to Sanders.

“Do you trust him?” Sanders said, people familiar with the conversation said.

“Yeah, I do,” Devine said.

“You think we should talk to him?” Sanders asked.

“I think we should try to win California, and then we’ll talk to him,” Devine said.












Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 10, 2016, 01:14:31 AM
Never lose sight or forget - Sanders pulled off a miracle, doing so well...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 01:18:57 AM
On the re-read, Bernie is not being as selfish and stubborn as I initially thought, after all, Russ Feingold should be a super-delegate. So if he wasn't endorsing Sanders when he desperately needed it, why should he help him? A joint strategy would have been easy.


There is one thing I will say on Feigold's behalf. He was one of the rare senators to oppose The Patriot Act back in the day.

EDIT: Yes, Sanders pulled off a miracle playing against a stacked deck.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 10, 2016, 02:28:43 AM
He did, he did.

Now it's time to fight like ten wolverines for the platform and then support Mrs. Clinton 1,000%.

-I don't like it, either.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 03:14:55 AM
Bits and bytes from the Johnson campaign-

*There was an article in the Washington Post about one of Johnson's talking points. He explains that as governor about 11cents of every dollar spent on education came from the Feds, and it came with 16 cents worth of mandates. They said the first part was spot on, but that the second was misleading.
That much federal money was from elective programs and grants for which schools applied. So they could opt out. Except for Special Education. (  Aye. There's the rub.  I used to be VP of a regional board that oversaw special education programs in the early 90s. I'll spare you the particulars. I'd say it's a good estimate. )The reporter got numbers from the teacher's union, which probably doesn't take ito account administrative/secretarial/bookkeeper  compliance costs, and didn't really know about special education.     They rated Johnson 3/4 pinnochios and said he should stop using that.

Interestingly enough, the majority of the readers poll said his claim was true.

Videos-

On Penn Gillette's show April 20th 2016. Bad connection, he can't hear the questions, but he talks about Climbing Mt. Everest about 25:30 .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNE_CZXiGlg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNE_CZXiGlg)


In studio return appearance 5/15/2016.  31:45 he tells about a unique program he initiated as Governor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTunl_eN9qA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTunl_eN9qA)



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 06:31:54 AM
He did, he did.

Now it's time to fight like ten wolverines for the platform and then support Mrs. Clinton 1,000%.

-I don't like it, either.

Apparently, neither does he. He met with Obama today, and while they had the opportunity to jointly endorse Hillary, Obama made a video endorsement, calling her the best qualified ever, and Bernie spoke in front of the Whitehouse vowing to fight against Oligarchic government, and said he would competing in the D.C. primary, and looked forward to campaigning with Mrs. Clinton...

Huh? She and Jeb represent the Oligarchy. Choosing those words now hardly seems like party unity.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 07:43:47 AM
Usually, I'm searching [Sleezebag], Clinton, Sanders, Johnson and Weld.
I thought I should check on Dr. Jill Stein, Green Party frontrunner, since I haven't lately.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/green_partys_jill_stein_what_we (http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/green_partys_jill_stein_what_we)
Green Party's Jill Stein: What We Fear from Donald [Sleezebag], We Have Already Seen from Hillary Clinton
June 09, 2016

Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein takes aim at the presumptive nominees of both major parties, Donald [Sleezebag] and Hillary Clinton. "[Sleezebag] says very scary things—deporting immigrants, massive militarism and ignoring the climate. Hillary, unfortunately, has a track record for doing all of those things," Stein says. "Hillary has supported the deportations of immigrants, opposed the refugees—women and children coming from Honduras, whose refugee crisis she was very much responsible for by giving a thumbs-up to this corporate coup in Honduras that has created the violence from which those refugees are fleeing." Stein goes on to say, "We see these draconian things that Donald [Sleezebag] is talking about, we actually see Hillary Clinton doing."

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jill Stein, what do you say to those, for instance, who criticize third-party efforts as spoiler efforts throughout the history of the country—Ross Perot running in the early ’90s with the result that Bill Clinton was able to defeat the Republican candidate, then, of course, Ralph Nader in the 2000 race, blamed by some, although others disagree that that was the result, for resulting in George Bush being elected in 2000?

DR. JILL STEIN: So, let me say first off, this is a problem that could be fixed with the stroke of a pen, this electoral system that tells you to vote against what you’re afraid of and not for what you believe. And, you know, what we’ve seen over the years, this strategy has a track record: This politics of fear has actually delivered everything we were afraid of. All the reasons you were told you had to vote for the lesser evil—because you didn’t want the massive Wall Street bailouts, the offshoring of our jobs, the meltdown of the climate, the endless expanding wars, the attack on immigrants—all that, we’ve gotten by the droves, because we allowed ourselves to be silenced. You know, silence is not what democracy needs. Right now we have an election where even the supporters of Hillary Clinton, the majority don’t support Hillary, they just oppose Donald [Sleezebag]. And the majority of Donald [Sleezebag] supporters don’t support him, they just oppose Hillary. And the majority are clamoring for another independent or several independent candidates and an independent party, and feel that they are being terribly misserved and mistreated by the current politics. So to further silence our voices is exactly the wrong thing to do. And I’ll just point out, Donald [Sleezebag] himself is lifted up by a movement which is very much the product of the Clintons’ policies. The lesser evil very much makes inevitable the greater evil, because people don’t come out to vote for a politician that’s throwing them under the bus. And so we see houses of—the houses of Congress, we have also seen statehouse after statehouse, flipping from red to blue over the years as the Democratic Party has become a lesser-evil party. And Donald [Sleezebag] is buoyed up by the policies passed by Bill Clinton, supported by Hillary—that is, deregulation of Wall Street, which led to the disappearance of 9 million jobs, 5 million people thrown out of their homes, and by NAFTA, which exported those jobs. That’s exactly the economic oppression and stress that has led to this right-wing extremism. So you can’t get where you want to go through the lesser evil. At the end of the day, you’ve got to stand up.

But we could fix this right now simply by passing ranked choice voting, which takes the fear out of voting. If you can’t put your values into your vote, we don’t have a democracy. Ranked choice voting says you can rank your first choice first, and if your first choice doesn’t make it, is eliminated and loses, your vote is automatically reassigned to your second choice. This is used in cities across the country. My campaign actually proposed this in the Massachusetts Legislature through a progressive Democratic representative back in 2002 in the first race that I ran. I was running for governor. We proposed that bill, filed it, so that there would be no splitting of the vote. The Democrats refused to let it out of committee. And that tells you something very important: They rely on fear. They don’t want you to vote your values. They need to use the scary tactic of, "Oh, the other guy is worse." Why is that? Because at the end of the day, they are not on your side. They need you to be afraid of them, because they are not for you. That alone speaks volumes about how far we are going to get.

In this race, I’ll just conclude saying, this is a unique moment now. We’ve never been here in history before. What we are facing, you know, is not just a question of what kind of world we want to be, but whether we will be a world at all, the way the nuclear arms race has been re-engaged, the way Hillary Clinton wants to create an air war over Syria through a no-fly zone against another nuclear-armed power—that is, Russia—the climate crisis, where the day of reckoning is coming closer and closer all the time. We can’t keep using this failed policy of silencing ourselves with this politics of fear. It’s time to forget the lesser evil, stand up and fight for the greater good like our lives depend on it, because they do.

AMY GOODMAN: And to those Sanders supporters who have started saying, "If it’s Hill, it’s Jill"? And this is going back to the point of what would you say to Sanders supporters worried about [Sleezebag].

DR. JILL STEIN: Yes, exactly. I’d say putting another Clinton in the White House is only going to make that right-wing extremism greater. We will see more of these neoliberal policies, like Wall Street deregulation, like the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which Hillary has always supported. She’s changed her tune a little bit, but Hillary has walked the walk. Look at the walk and not the talk. In fact, you know, [Sleezebag] says very scary things—deporting immigrants, massive militarism and, you know, ignoring the climate. Well, Hillary, unfortunately, has a track record for doing all of those things. Hillary has supported the deportations of immigrants, opposed the refugees—women and children coming from Honduras, whose refugee crisis she was very much responsible for by giving a thumbs-up to this corporate coup in Honduras that has created the violence from which those refugees are fleeing. She basically said, "No, bar the gates, send them back." You know, so we see these draconian things that Donald [Sleezebag] is talking about, we actually see Hillary Clinton doing.

And it’s not only the militarism that [Sleezebag] talks about, it’s Hillary’s massive record of militarism: the rush into Libya, which was really—you know, she was the prime mover behind that campaign, which the military advisers were largely against; her approval for the war in Iraq and so on; you know, her threat to bomb Iran; and, you know, she—and her demonization of Russia and China, and the pivot against China. We are rushing towards war with Hillary Clinton, who has a track record.

And on climate, you know, [Sleezebag] talks terrible on climate, although in Ireland, I believe it is, he does believe in climate change: He’s trying to build a wall to protect one of his luxury golf courses in Ireland, because he’s worried about sea level rise from climate change, according to the papers that he’s filed for that permit. And on climate, Hillary Clinton established an office to promote fracking around the world, while secretary of state.

So, the terrible things that we expect from Donald [Sleezebag], we’ve actually already seen from Hillary Clinton. So I’d say, don’t be a victim of this propaganda campaign, which is being waged by people who exercise selective amnesia. They’re very quick to tell you about the terrible things that the Republicans did, but they’re very quick to forget the equally terrible things that have happened under a Democratic White House, with two Democratic houses of Congress. It’s time to forget the lesser evil, stand up and fight for the greater good. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. Neither—

AMY GOODMAN: Jill Stein, we just—we just have—

DR. JILL STEIN: Neither party of the evils will do it for us.

AMY GOODMAN: We just have 30 seconds, but your unsolicited advice, unsolicited by Bernie Sanders, for what he should demand when he meets with President Obama today, and then your advice to him when he comes outside?

DR. JILL STEIN: You know, I don’t think President Obama is going to change his tune because of something that Bernie Sanders says to him. I think what’s really important—you know, in the words of Frederick Douglass, "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has, and it never will." This is why third parties are effective, whether they’re in power or whether they are simply pushing. Otherwise, there is no counterweight of the power of corporations, which have basically taken over the two major corporate political parties. So, I think it’s very important for Bernie to—you know, to have a teachable moment here and to take heed of his experience of the last many months, and for him to actually stand up and do what the world needs for him to do and what the world needs for this movement to do. And if Bernie is not able to overcome his experience of many decades as a loyal and faithful Democrat, I really understand that. But I think for those of us who are living in today and who are seeing what tomorrow looks like, it’s very important for us to move ahead and take back the America and the world that works for all of us, based on putting people, planet and peace over profit.

AMY GOODMAN: Jill Stein, we want to thank you for being with us, 2016 presidential candidate for the Green Party.

******

I think the Greens are worse than Sanders ( and I think he's sincere, but deluded. ). Frankly, I don't want them to become established. But constitutionalist that I am, I believe in their rights, and as a former Reform Party activist, I feel their pain.

I like Dr. Jill Stein, and I also respect her. I'm inclined to agree with her reasoning here.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 09:27:39 PM
Here's an in depth TV  interview with Gary Johnson on C-SPAN

www.c-span.org/video/?410022-5/washington-journal-libertarian-presidential-candidate-gary-johnson (http://www.c-span.org/video/?410022-5/washington-journal-libertarian-presidential-candidate-gary-johnson)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 10, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
I think I'm seeing something of a story that's not a story as yet.

Something in the recent polling, basically this- Independents who previously supported Sanders are gravitating to Hillary and Johnson, NOT [Sleezebag]. This is somewhat surprising, because a lot of Sanders and [Sleezebag] supporters cited the other as a second choice, as another outsider and agent of change. Could they be disillusioned with The Donald?

I don't know, maybe he hasn't been asking for their support. 

But it looks like he has hurt himself with the judge business. Well, it I guess it reveals him as a racist, and not simply a nationalist. Or maybe it drew more scrutiny to the class action suits against him for fraud.

But anyway, candidates normally get a bump in the polls 1) when they clinch the nomination, 2) when they have their convention. Johnson's bumps coincided. [Sleezebag]'s first is over, and Hillary's is starting.

57% of both Donald and Hillary voters are firm supporters. Of the general electorate , both of them have 57% unfavorable ratings.

Oh, with another poll out , Johnson's aggregate avg. poll number is up to 9%.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 11, 2016, 04:24:38 AM
Gleanings-

* Mary Matalin is giving [Sleezebag] free advice.- It's not about him, it's about the voters.

* Hillary has met with/been endorsed by Biden, Obama, and Elizabeth Warren. The Queen has been anointed, next - coronation.

* Mitt says he's looking for somebody to vote for, and is examining Gary Johnson's platform. He urges fellow Republicans endorsing [Sleezebag] to admit they made a mistake and revoke their endorsement.

* Who will Hillary's VP be? Unknowns don't add much. Bernie and Elizabeth Warren have publicly criticized her, besides, she really doesn't want to remove a sitting Senator, only to have them replaced by a Republican. 

* [Sleezebag]- "Make America great again -- I'm adding, 'for everyone,' because it's really going to be for everyone, it's not going to be for a group of people."

He added, "I am the least racist person, the least racist person that you've ever seen."

* Scott Adams- "Tony Robbins (probably) influenced Donald [Sleezebag], by association. They worked together on at least one project.

When I listen to Donald [Sleezebag], I detect all of his influences back to Erickson. If you make it through this reading list, you might hear it too. I don’t know if Donald [Sleezebag] would make a good president, but he is the best persuader I have ever seen. On a scale from 1 to 10, if Steve Jobs was a 10, [Sleezebag] is a 15.

You know how the media has made fun of [Sleezebag]’s 4th-grade-level speech patterns?

The joke’s on them.

He does it intentionally.

Because it works."
--------------------------------

I came across a Rolling Stone article, but in the context of what Green Party frontrunner Dr. Jill Stein said which I shared, and ingesting some facebook fights among Sanders supporters ( Hill is the Shill, and it's time to rally behind Jill. NEVER Hillary, and a [Sleezebag] dictatorship will only hasten the revolution. Liberal poetic license on my part ),  I figured I should post the whole article about the Democratic party. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 11, 2016, 04:44:55 AM
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/democrats-will-learn-all-the-wrong-lessons-from-brush-with-bernie-20160609)
Democrats Will Learn All the Wrong Lessons From Brush With Bernie

Instead of a reality check for the party, it'll be smugness redoubled

By Matt Taibbi June 9, 2016

Years ago, over many beers in a D.C. bar, a congressional aide colorfully described the House of Representatives, where he worked.

It's "435 heads up 435 asses," he said.

I thought of that person yesterday, while reading the analyses of Hillary Clinton's victories Tuesday night. The arrival of the first female presidential nominee was undoubtedly a huge moment in American history and something even the supporters of Bernie Sanders should recognize as significant and to be celebrated. But the Washington media's assessment of how we got there was convoluted and self-deceiving.

This was no ordinary primary race, not a contest between warring factions within the party establishment, á la Obama-Clinton in '08 or even Gore-Bradley in '00. This was a barely quelled revolt that ought to have sent shock waves up and down the party, especially since the Vote of No Confidence overwhelmingly came from the next generation of voters. Yet editorialists mostly drew the opposite conclusion.

The classic example was James Hohmann's piece in the Washington Post, titled, "Primary wins show Hillary Clinton needs the left less than pro-Sanders liberals think."

Hohmann's thesis was that the "scope and scale" of Clinton's wins Tuesday night meant mainstream Democrats could now safely return to their traditional We won, screw you posture of "minor concessions" toward the "liberal base."

Hohmann focused on the fact that with Bernie out of the way, Hillary now had a path to victory that would involve focusing on [Sleezebag]'s negatives. Such a strategy won't require much if any acquiescence toward the huge masses of Democratic voters who just tried to derail her candidacy. And not only is the primary scare over, but Clinton and the centrist Democrats in general are in better shape than ever.

"Big picture," Hohmann wrote, "Clinton is running a much better and more organized campaign than she did in 2008." 

Then there was Jonathan Capehart, also of the Post, whose "This is how Bernie Sanders and Donald [Sleezebag] are the same person" piece describes Sanders as a "stubborn outsider" who "shares the same DNA" as Donald [Sleezebag]. Capeheart snootily seethes that both men will ultimately pay a karmic price for not knowing their places.

"In the battle of the outsider egos storming the political establishment, [Sleezebag] succeeded where Sanders failed," he wrote. "But the chaos unleashed by [Sleezebag]'s victory could spell doom for the GOP all over the ballot in November. Pardon me while I dab that single tear trickling down my cheek."

If they had any brains, Beltway Dems and their clucky sycophants like Capeheart would not be celebrating this week. They ought to be horrified to their marrow that the all-powerful Democratic Party ended up having to dig in for a furious rally to stave off a quirky Vermont socialist almost completely lacking big-dollar donors or institutional support.

They should be freaked out, cowed and relieved, like the Golden State Warriors would be if they needed a big fourth quarter to pull out a win against Valdosta State.

But to read the papers in the last two days is to imagine that we didn't just spend a year witnessing the growth of a massive grassroots movement fueled by loathing of the party establishment, with some correspondingly severe numerical contractions in the turnout department (though she won, for instance, Clinton received 30 percent fewer votes in California this year versus 2008, and 13 percent fewer in New Jersey).

The twin insurgencies of [Sleezebag] and Sanders this year were equally a blistering referendum on Beltway politics. But the major-party leaders and the media mouthpieces they hang out with can't see this, because of what that friend of mine talked about over a decade ago: Washington culture is too far up its own backside to see much of anything at all.

In D.C., a kind of incestuous myopia very quickly becomes part of many political jobs. Congressional aides in particular work ridiculous hours for terrible pay and hang out almost exclusively with each other. About the only recreations they can afford are booze, shop-talk, and complaining about constituents, who in many offices are considered earth's lowest form of life, somewhere between lichens and nematodes.

It's somewhat understandable. In congressional offices in particular, people universally dread picking up the phone, because it's mostly only a certain kind of cable-addicted person with too much spare time who calls a politician's office.

"Have you ever called your congressman? No, because you have a job!" laughs Paul Thacker, a former Senate aide currently working on a book about life on the Hill. Thacker recounts tales of staffers rushing to turn on Fox News once the phones start ringing, because "the people" are usually only triggered to call Washington by some moronic TV news scare campaign.

In another case, Thacker remembers being in the office of the senator of a far-Northern state, watching an aide impatiently conduct half of a constituent phone call. "He was like, 'Uh huh, yes, I understand.' Then he'd pause and say, 'Yes, sir,' again. This went on for like five minutes," recounts Thacker.

Finally, the aide firmly hung up the phone, reared back and pointed accusingly at the receiver. "And you are from [intercourse gerund] Missouri!" he shouted. "Why are you calling me?"

These stories are funny, but they also point to a problem. Since The People is an annoying beast, young pols quickly learn to be focused entirely on each other and on their careers. They get turned on by the narrative of Beltway politics as a cool power game, and before long are way too often reaching for Game of Thrones metaphors to describe their jobs. Eventually, the only action that matters is inside the palace.

Voter concerns rapidly take a back seat to the daily grind of the job. The ideal piece of legislation in almost every case is a Frankensteinian policy concoction that allows the sponsoring pol to keep as many big-money donors in the fold as possible without offending actual human voters to the point of a ballot revolt.

This dynamic is rarely explained to the public, but voters on both sides of the aisle have lately begun guessing at the truth, and spent most of the last year letting the parties know it in the primaries. People are sick of being thought of as faraway annoyances who only get whatever policy scraps are left over after pols have finished servicing the donors they hang out with at Redskins games.

Democratic voters tried to express these frustrations through the Sanders campaign, but the party leaders have been and probably will continue to be too dense to listen. Instead, they'll convince themselves that, as Hohmann's Post article put it, Hillary's latest victories mean any "pressure" they might have felt to change has now been "ameliorated."

The maddening thing about the Democrats is that they refuse to see how easy they could have it. If the party threw its weight behind a truly populist platform, if it stood behind unions and prosecuted Wall Street criminals and stopped taking giant gobs of cash from every crooked transnational bank and job-exporting manufacturer in the world, they would win every election season in a landslide.

This is especially the case now that the Republican Party has collapsed under the weight of its own nativist lunacy. It's exactly the moment when the Democrats should feel free to become a real party of ordinary working people.

But they won't do that, because they don't see what just happened this year as a message rising up from millions of voters.

Politicians are so used to viewing the electorate as a giant thing to be manipulated that no matter what happens at the ballot, they usually can only focus on the Washington-based characters they perceive to be pulling the strings. Through this lens, the uprising among Democratic voters this year wasn't an organic expression of mass disgust, but wholly the fault of Bernie Sanders, who within the Beltway is viewed as an oddball amateur and radical who jumped the line.

Nobody saw his campaign as an honest effort to restore power to voters, because nobody in the capital even knows what that is. In the rules of palace intrigue, Sanders only made sense as a kind of self-centered huckster who made a failed play for power. And the narrative will be that with him out of the picture, the crisis is over. No person, no problem.

This inability to grasp that the problem is bigger than Bernie Sanders is a huge red flag. As Thacker puts it, the theme of this election year was widespread anger toward both parties, and both the [Sleezebag] craziness and the near-miss with Sanders should have served as a warning. "The Democrats should be worried they're next," he says.

But they're not worried. Behind the palace walls, nobody ever is.











Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 11, 2016, 09:09:02 PM
Funny thing about this-

It's customary after the nomination to have the candidate and his running mate on the bumper stickers - not an option here because of the slogan.  Can't have two names and mention a third option...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 12, 2016, 08:56:09 PM
Funny thing about this-

It's customary after the nomination to have the candidate and his running mate on the bumper stickers - not an option here because of the slogan.  Can't have two names and mention a third option...

Good point. I love the star-spangled background.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 12, 2016, 09:06:51 PM
Candidates using the Orlando tragedy to further their political agendas-

Obama
Stein
[Sleezebag]

Candidates deliberately refraining from politicizing the Orlando tragedy and strictly expressing compassion for the victims and their loved ones-

Clinton
Johnson
Sanders

I'm disappointed in Stein.

I'm surprised and impressed by Hillary.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 12, 2016, 09:25:57 PM
And what is Mr. Bakrama running for?


Funny thing about this-

It's customary after the nomination to have the candidate and his running mate on the bumper stickers - not an option here because of the slogan.  Can't have two names and mention a third option...

Good point. I love the star-spangled background.
It looks better in full color, doesn't it?  I should probably do it with the swoosh flipped - or better, find me another middle divider thingy...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on June 12, 2016, 11:12:08 PM
Candidates using the Orlando tragedy to further their political agendas-

Obama
Stein
Drumpf

Candidates deliberately refraining from politicizing the Orlando tragedy and strictly expressing compassion for the victims and their loved ones-

Clinton
Johnson
Sanders

I'm disappointed in Stein.

I'm surprised and impressed by Hillary.

Well there's horrific gun violence in America literally every single day, so if we're only allowed to talk about gun control when there isn't a tragedy, our options are somewhat limited...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 12, 2016, 11:56:29 PM
Australia hasn't had a massacre for over 20 years since the Port Arthur massacre.

Gun control works.  Do it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 13, 2016, 02:44:03 AM
Candidates using the Orlando tragedy to further their political agendas-

Obama
Stein
Drumpf

Candidates deliberately refraining from politicizing the Orlando tragedy and strictly expressing compassion for the victims and their loved ones-

Clinton
Johnson
Sanders

I'm disappointed in Stein.

I'm surprised and impressed by Hillary.

Well there's horrific gun violence in America literally every single day, so if we're only allowed to talk about gun control when there isn't a tragedy, our options are somewhat limited...

I'm just talking about the tragedies that dominate the news and interrupt regular programming, not the every day stuff.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 13, 2016, 05:58:23 AM
And what is Mr. Bakrama running for?

Usually a place in history/ legacy at this point.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 13, 2016, 06:26:56 AM
Weekend Gleanings-

*Johnson has been making a claim that we have agreements to defend 69 countries and most of them were presidential, and not approved by Congress. Well, it's misleading.... most likely misinformed.
Yeah, there are as many as 70 countries with which we have agreements, NATO, Organization of American States, that sort of thing. Those treaties were ratified by the Senate as per the Constitution. The House wasn't involved.   MOSTLY FALSE. I think he's relatively honest, so I expect him to drop this claim. We shall see.

* The [Sleezebag] University handbook actually included instructions for what to do if an Attorney General shows up.

* The Koch Brothers are de-funding the Republican Convention.

* [Sleezebag] was on script for a couple of days last week, but reverted to being himself.

* The FBI has leaked that Hillary was approving drone strikes on her unsecured system.
 
*Hillary's machine is raising money for the Democratic Party, [Sleezebag] agreed to do likewise, but nothing is happening, and the candidates are too busy to do it after their conventions.

* Something else I don't remember...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 13, 2016, 01:53:30 PM

* The FBI has leaked that Hillary was approving drone strikes on her unsecured system.
 

I didn't think Secretary of State had that authority in the chain of command? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 13, 2016, 02:16:54 PM
* The FBI has leaked that Hillary was approving drone strikes on her unsecured system.
 

I didn't think Secretary of State had that authority in the chain of command?
-I s'pose she might get consulted on spook activity sometimes, them being so intertwined with the State Department, IF it was a spook operation.  One can imagine certain political hits getting kicked around outside the actual chain of command...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 13, 2016, 07:35:46 PM
* The FBI has leaked that Hillary was approving drone strikes on her unsecured system.
 

I didn't think Secretary of State had that authority in the chain of command?
-I s'pose she might get consulted on spook activity sometimes, them being so intertwined with the State Department, IF it was a spook operation.  One can imagine certain political hits getting kicked around outside the actual chain of command...

Yes. IIRC- Apparently the CIA finds a targeted individual, and few, such as the Secretary of State have a narrow window in which to give a Yea or Nay in a Roman Colosseum kind of way.  The CIA is miffed that Clinton was potentially jeopardizing operations by doing this on unsecured channels for her convenience on weekends and holidays ... or something like that. 

Clinton was being circumspect, but that's not the same as encrypted.
*****

What does the leak mean? That the Justice Department is preparing to let her off with a reprimand rather than criminal charges and a righteous agent decided to let her stand trial by public opinion?
That somebody in the FBI can't stand the thought of her being boss for 4-8 years? Something else? I have no clue.


Yes- I can imagine State having a say that the diplomatic cost of droning the guy in the historic mosque or crowded bazzar outweighs the military/political benefit.

Well, the longer I live the less I think we should be using the CIA, because the things they do have consequences. Another Cold War relic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 13, 2016, 07:48:34 PM

* The FBI has leaked that Hillary was approving drone strikes on her unsecured system.
 

I didn't think Secretary of State had that authority in the chain of command?

Official, no.  Unofficial, ya, since Kennedy and vietnam.  Prez, VP, Sec State, then Sec Def, IIRC for authorizing military action.  Clinton as prez specifically didn't allow Sec Def, and instead had homeland security, which caused a bit of friction.  Prez has to sleep sometime, and has to been in meetings that cannot be interrupted but there is a time critical action needed... that sort of thing. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 13, 2016, 10:07:09 PM
According to MSNBC, [Sleezebag] has just pulled the press credentials of The Washington Post. He tweeted that they are lying about him.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 13, 2016, 10:40:35 PM
;nod

How can you tell when the PIG is lying?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 14, 2016, 01:02:43 AM
Let's be honest.  Anybody from Washington is probably not too familiar with the truth....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 14, 2016, 03:15:34 AM
False dichotomy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 14, 2016, 03:35:32 AM
Gleanings-

* Johnson is at only 6% in his latest poll. Huh? He has been trending up his media exposure was strong until yesterday, and his last few polls have been in the double digits. The devil is in the details..

[Sleezebag]-36%
Clinton- 39%
Johnson- 6%
Stein-4%
Stay Home- 5%
Undecided-9%

So with 2 men, 2 women, and 2 other options can we say that those votes for Johnson are solid?

* Maybe this is what I forgot...

Donald [Sleezebag] on Politifact    # investigated claims ( % of total )

True
3 (2%)
 
Mostly True
11 (7%)
 
Half True
24 (15%)
 
Mostly False
25 (16%)
 
False
64 (41%)
 
Pants on Fire
30 (19%)

Hillary for comparison

True
47 (22%)
 
Mostly True
58 (28%)
 
Half True
45 (22%)
 
Mostly False
32 (15%)

False
24 (11%)
 
Pants on Fire
3 (1%)

Bernie for comparison. Well, maybe this doesn't differentiate between deceptions and delusions.

True
14 (14%)

Mostly True
38 (38%)
 
Half True
19 (19%)
 
Mostly False
18 (18%)
 
False
12 (12%)
---------

* More about money. [Sleezebag] is running low. The Koch Brothers turned him down, ( and I mentioned that they withdrew support for this year's GOP convention. ) and he hasn't done the usual things a Republican presumptive nominee does.

I don't know what this means. It could be [Sleezebag] being cheap. Maybe he's waiting for the GOP money in August. Maybe he really is trying to destroy the GOP from within. Normally it's a collaborative effort, raising money together, appearing together.  I'm sensing a "I took over this party, and now it exists to serve me "vibe , rather than a team captain who wants to win for everybody. After all, the longer his coattails, the more likely he is to enact his agenda. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, politics.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 14, 2016, 06:18:32 AM
Johnson seems to be taking a couple of days off from the campaign trail after a non-stop media blitz before and after the Memorial Day convention. He's been quiet since his statements about not wanting to politicize the tragedy.

Well, if he refuses to do that, it doesn't stop the Libertarian Party National Chairman from doing so.
For those of you not familiar with the party/philosophy and it's principles, the most basic one is
Non- aggression. Not by governments or individuals.

 Most freedoms are traded away in hope of security. Probably because most people aren't Golden Rule types when nobody's looking.  ( most Libertarians won't admit that )

---------------------------

For immediate release
 June 13, 2016

In wake of Orlando shooting, Libertarian Party calls for
 end to ‘gun-free’ zones

Nicholas Sarwark, Chair of the Libertarian National Committee, issued the following statement today:




Despite the horrific loss of life and the dozens more injured by a spiteful, deranged shooter in Orlando yesterday, the forces of hate are losing the battle against the vast majority of peaceful individuals who want social tolerance. But Americans remain at risk of more mass shootings.

Hundreds of individuals from all backgrounds lined up in the Florida heat for hours to give blood to the victims of this tragedy. Millions of Americans nationwide share the grief of this moment and express their sympathy in vigils and social media.  The outpouring of love and support from caring people is what truly makes America great.

Government can neither protect us from people who hate, nor can it provide the love and support of people who, by nature, care for their fellow man. But government can greatly reduce the likelihood of mass shootings by getting out of the way of people who want to defend themselves and others.

Without missing a beat, old party politicians recycled their calls for more failed and deadly policies.

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald [Sleezebag] demonizes Muslims, failing to distinguish hateful and mentally ill individuals from the millions of peaceful Muslims who strongly condemn acts of violence.

Democrat Barack Obama calls for more deadly restrictions and prohibitions on the rights of peaceful, responsible gun owners to stop shooters and minimize their impact.

The Libertarian Party is the only political party calling for sensible, serious policy change that would reduce the frequency of mass shootings as well as minimize the damage they do.

Virtually all mass shootings happen in “gun-free” zones.  Regardless of the ideology of the shooter or the type of weapons used, the common link is that the event occurs where responsible gun owners are prohibited from carrying arms for self-defense. 
• The Pulse nightclub was a “gun-free” zone.
• The Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California was a “gun-free” zone.
• The Bataclan nightclub in Paris was a “gun-free” zone.
• The schools in Newtown, Connecticut and Columbine, Colorado were “gun-free” zones.
• Fort Hood was a “gun-free” zone.

In each of these mass killings, the government prohibited people from exercising their life-saving right to self-defense.

Government-mandated “gun-free” zones disarm those who want to defend themselves and their loved ones.

“Gun-free” zones create killing fields for mass murderers who, by definition, do not care what the law says.

Self-defense is a fundamental human right.  Every person has a right to defend herself and her loved ones against someone who would do them harm.  When government takes away the right of self-defense, it is violating a fundamental human right and endangering its citizens.

The choice of whether and how to defend oneself is a profoundly personal one.  The government should not mandate that every American carry a gun for personal self-defense, nor should it mandate that every American must rely on police for protection. 

The beauty of the right to self-defense is that it keeps the criminals guessing as to who has a gun and who does not. This deters mass shooters from even trying.

The Libertarian Party supports freedom of choice, and calls for the government to stop denying our human rights.

Our thoughts, prayers, and love go out to the friends and families of those slain or harmed in Orlando.  We owe it to them, and to all citizens, to do what we can to stop tragedies like this in the future.

How many more mass shootings will occur before we demand that our government stop violating our fundamental human right to self-defense?

No more government-mandated “gun-free” zones.  No more government-created killing fields where madmen can slay innocent people.

No more!


*****

Sorry Dude, I disagree.

 I have noticed that going back as far as the 1990s that gun-fee zones seem to be the likely place for shootings. Aside from the Chris Kyle murder, these kind of things seldom happen at gun clubs and police stations.

Disney has some serious security. I've been next to the range when the Orlando police department was practicing with machine guns, they practice hard. I'll skip the details, but I don't worry about stuff when I'm in The World. I once read that "any man under your power is under your protection, too." That sounds Medieval, but I often think of it in terms of employment, and it has stuck with me most of my life. Aside from College campuses, and some sporting events, most of these zones have little or no on site security.

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is a theory.
"Where guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns" is too often the case.

I don't want to do away with gun free zones, but I think if you establish one, you need to offer on site security. Any man under your power is also under your protection.

That's hardly a cure-all. Why? Because terrorists can find other ways, like guiding a plane or truck full of combustibles into a building. There are lots of issues in the last one- hate, craziness, terrorism, firearms, intelligence, security. Unless and until we take a more comprehensive approach, there will be more of them.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 14, 2016, 08:16:16 AM
John Howard, a conservative PM enacted strict gun control laws in 1996.

We have not had a mass shooting since.

Gun control works.

Full stop.

No other argument is valid.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 14, 2016, 01:54:17 PM
2 weeks ago:

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSEoVkl0W30#)


I'm all for open carry and concealed carry, but there's some seriously broken laws with regards to gun ownership, and that Libertarian party stance is part of the problem.  Or just positioning for NRA votes. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 15, 2016, 07:58:35 AM
Today's gleanings-

* They are in the process of counting millions of mail-in and provisional ballots in California. 3 counties and something like 9 super-delegates have flipped to Bernie so far. He could actually win it.

* Mitt Romney has had more good things to say about Bill Weld, and is moving closer to saying he'll vote for Johnson. I think that would give him a good shot at winning a Mountain time zone state, seeing as how they are Mormon heavy and know religious prejudice when they hear it from The Leader.

* Obama is mad at [Sleezebag] for his remarks about Orlando and suggesting Obama allows terrorist attacks.

* Oh. Apparently one of the Saudi royal family was boasting that it contributed 20% of Hillary's campaign money. Since this is illegal, I guess the original article was pulled. Maybe the real journalists from the Washington Post banned by [Sleezebag] could look into this. -

You know what? it implicates the Republicans, too. I'll copy it.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 15, 2016, 08:05:19 AM
http://en.abna24.com/service/middle-east-west-asia/archive/2016/06/14/760158/story.html (http://en.abna24.com/service/middle-east-west-asia/archive/2016/06/14/760158/story.html)

Saudi Arabia Has Funded 20% Of Hillary's Presidential Campaign


.June 14, 2016 - 4:25 PM.

AhlulBayt News Agency - Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman reportedly said Saudi has enthusiastically funded Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

Saudi Arabia is a major funder of Hillary Clinton’s campaign to become the next president of the United States, according to a report published by Jordan’s official news agency.

The Petra News Agency published on Sunday what it described as exclusive comments from Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman which included a claim that Riyadh has provided 20 percent of the total funding to the prospective Democratic candidate’s campaign.

The report was later deleted and the news agency has not responded to requests for comment.

It is illegal in the United States for foreign countries to try to influence the outcome of elections by funding candidates.

The Washington-based Institute for Gulf Affairs has re-published the original Arabic Petra report, which quoted Prince Mohammed as having said Saudi Arabia had provided with “full enthusiasm” an undisclosed amount of money to Clinton.

“Saudi Arabia always has sponsored both Republican and Democratic Party of America and in America current election also provide with full enthusiasm 20 percent of the cost of Hillary Clinton’s election even though some events in the country don’t have a positive look to support the king of a woman (sic) for presidency,” the report quoted Prince Mohammed as having said.

The US Federal Election commission reports that over the past two years Clinton has raised a little more than $211.78m. Twenty percent of this sum is $42.35m.

The report was published on the eve of Prince Mohammed making an official visit to the United States.

The Saudi Press Agency reported on Monday that the senior royal was due to fly to Washington where he will meet officials to discuss US-Saudi ties.

He will remain in the American capital until 16 June, when he will travel to New York for meetings with financial companies, the Saudi Gazette reported.

Prince Mohammed will discuss regional issues with American officials, and he will hold talks with the financial companies about his vision for diversifying Saudi Arabia’s economy away from oil dependency.

Links between Saudi Arabia and the Clinton family, including with Hillary’s campaign, are well reported.

In 2008, it was revealed that the Gulf kingdom had donated between $10m and $25m to the Clinton Foundation, a charity set up by Hillary’s husband and former US President Bill Clinton.

Last year the Centre for Studies and Media Affairs at the Saudi Royal Court paid public relations firm the Podesta Group $200,000 for a month-long project to provide “public relations services”.

The Podesta Group was founded in 1988 by brothers John and Tony Podesta. John Podesta is the chair of Hillary Clinton’s campaign to become the next US president.

Hillary Clinton’s campaign did not respond to a request for comment at the time of publication.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 15, 2016, 02:11:23 PM

* Mitt Romney has had more good things to say about Bill Weld, and is moving closer to saying he'll vote for Johnson. I think that would give him a good shot at winning a Mountain time zone state, seeing as how they are Mormon heavy and know religious prejudice when they hear it from The Leader.



Maybe not "officially endorsed" but he's already said he'd likely vote for Johnson on the local news weeks ago.  If that didn't bump him much then, I don't know that an official endorsement will do much more now. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 15, 2016, 07:43:13 PM
The statements I've read from Mitt have been carefully parsed. More along the lines of considering Johnson, that he'd have to study his platform, that if Weld were at the top it would be a done deal.

But if Mitt's local statements are less nuanced, it could explain why Johnson polled at 16% in Utah recently.

As for the gun issue, the party is emphatic. They are adamant Bill of Rights people, more than any party I've ever seen. Bill Weld barely got approved because although a hunter, he once supported an assault rifle ban. They insisted on 2nd Amendment pledges. If they broke faith  2 weeks after securing the nomination, I could easily see state parties failing to assist in ballot access... " Oh darn. Did we get your name wrong? File late? Forget to get it notarized? The whole thing musta slipped my mind when you forgot you were a Libertarian."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 15, 2016, 07:51:27 PM
It was along the lines of "if it were held today, I'd vote for Johnson, but there's time to look and I'm still deciding" type comment.  I guarantee that's why he polled 16% here as I doubt anyone knew anything more about him than I did prior to that comment. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 15, 2016, 08:00:52 PM
As for the gun issue, the party is emphatic. They are adamant Bill of Rights people, more than any party I've ever seen. Bill Weld barely got approved because although a hunter, he once supported an assault rifle ban. They insisted on 2nd Amendment pledges. If they broke faith  2 weeks after securing the nomination, I could easily see state parties failing to assist in ballot access... " Oh darn. Did we get your name wrong? File late? Forget to get it notarized? The whole thing musta slipped my mind when you forgot you were a Libertarian."

I'm all for 2nd amendment.  The problem is when ANY discussion of anything even remotely around guns becomes "calls for more deadly restrictions and prohibitions on the rights of peaceful, responsible gun owners to stop shooters and minimize their impact."

That's just horrendous fearmongering. 

The guy in Orlando was on the FBI watch list.  He would have been able to legally purchase guns and ammo (don't know if it's been released whether he did or not).  It should be a no-brainer argument that he probably SHOULDN'T have been able to. 

I can at least understand the gun free zone argument. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 15, 2016, 09:43:09 PM
He legally purchased from a reputable local dealer ( former NYC police officer ), and complied with the waiting period.

The killer worked as a professional security officer until he quit. He passed that background check, too, with no objections from law enforcement. I wonder if he had hopes of letting terrorists in through a loading dock or side entrance at a stadium or civic arena or convention center. Orlando has 'em.

How a guy on the no-fly list gets to be a security officer, I have no clue. It suggests that a security  company .... okay I'm simply baffled.

{EDIT Okay, to be fair he may have been a security officer before he was officially no fly or under FBI scrutiny. I find the reporting still spotty, not clear and consistent about what happened when. }


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 15, 2016, 10:17:50 PM
AFAIK, it passes muster that a person can be on a terrorist watch list, and not be flagged in a criminal background check at the same time, due to privacy laws and such as they are now. 



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 16, 2016, 12:12:49 AM
I don't see how anyone can justify needing more than a single shot breech loader.  I used to hunt too with a .22 and a 303.  There's no reason you need more than a single shot gun/rifle.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 16, 2016, 03:56:40 AM
There's no reason you need more than a single shot gun/rifle.

The .303 is a little difficult to get ammo for here, but I understand it's like the British equivalent of a 30.06, if a little smaller.  (not of consequence to hunting anything in NA or Australia)

What were you hunting out of curiousity.

Anyhow, I disagree.

A 700-900 lb elk at 300+ yards is not an easy one-shot, and not uncommon situation in the Rockies. 

Also, I've seen a LOT of bad shooters hunting, and am of the opinion it's better to KILL than to let a wounded animal escape due to bad first shot.  I don't see a need for a Semi-auto by any stretch, but don't see a problem with bolt actions.  (For the record, my 1903 springfield only ever took one shot at a living thing.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 16, 2016, 06:01:09 AM
Today's Gleanings-

* Hillary and Bernie met to discuss measures to aid working families, and opposing Donald [Sleezebag]. Her aide viewed it as positive, Bernie's as constructive. But he hasn't conceded victory to her, or endorsed anyone else.

* [Sleezebag] is in a snit from Republicans handling him with a 10 foot poll, saying he considered running alone in the beginning, and he can still do it. Examples are former presidential hopeful Lamar Alexander pointedly saying [Sleezebag]'s not the nominee until the convention, and then we'll see. Scott Walker was rated a "half-flip" by fact checkers. He no longer speaks Trumps name. Speaker Ryan was denouncing one of the statements since the mass murder.

* Johnson's campaign manager explained that he thinks they can when some of the mountain states. A battleground state like Ohio or PA is too expensive to be competitive in. But New Hampshire ( home of the Libertarian Free State project ) is considered in play, and possibly another Eastern state ... I'd assume Delaware or Maine.

* Bill Weld is doing his part. He is getting a lot of coverage in Massachusetts. People in his old firm are forming a PAC.  He came out with a proposal for a terrorism task force and a tip line to make it easier for American Muslims to indicate radicals. Modeled after successful programs he worked with as a federal prosecutor. Also CNN will do a town hall with him and Johnson.

* [Sleezebag]'s negatives exceed 70% in the latest poll.  In other words, with negatives over 2/3rds in a 3 way race, [Sleezebag] is now the spoiler.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 16, 2016, 06:41:39 AM
There's no reason you need more than a single shot gun/rifle.

The .303 is a little difficult to get ammo for here, but I understand it's like the British equivalent of a 30.06, if a little smaller.  (not of consequence to hunting anything in NA or Australia)

What were you hunting out of curiousity.

Anyhow, I disagree.

A 700-900 lb elk at 300+ yards is not an easy one-shot, and not uncommon situation in the Rockies. 

Also, I've seen a LOT of bad shooters hunting, and am of the opinion it's better to KILL than to let a wounded animal escape due to bad first shot.  I don't see a need for a Semi-auto by any stretch, but don't see a problem with bolt actions.  (For the record, my 1903 springfield only ever took one shot at a living thing.)

My brother and I used to hunt rabbits and roos (kangaroos).  We used to also use the 303 to put down cows (single shot, back of the ear).  Sure it won't bring down a large animal, but is very popular here for medium size animal hunting.  It became very popular in British countries as it was a fast bolt-action rifle with good accuracy over medium distance.

The 303 is a branch of the Lee-Enfield.  Over here the cartridge, short-cartridge and auto models are illegal.  However with the proper license you can purchase a bolt-action single or clip (5 round).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 16, 2016, 12:08:44 PM
Why hunt roos?  I gather they're considered giant rats and not anything you'd eat...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on June 16, 2016, 12:31:47 PM
They jump, and they can't see to well.

I bet you can imagine the mess they make with farming fences and getting tangled up in them.  And you can eat roo.  The legs are made into dog food too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 16, 2016, 02:01:07 PM
Why hunt roos?  I gather they're considered giant rats and not anything you'd eat...

Heck, there's open bounty on coyotes around here, and you don't eat them. 

My brother and I used to hunt rabbits and roos (kangaroos).  We used to also use the 303 to put down cows (single shot, back of the ear).  Sure it won't bring down a large animal, but is very popular here for medium size animal hunting.  It became very popular in British countries as it was a fast bolt-action rifle with good accuracy over medium distance.

The 303 is a branch of the Lee-Enfield.  Over here the cartridge, short-cartridge and auto models are illegal.  However with the proper license you can purchase a bolt-action single or clip (5 round).

So, it is just like my 5 round clip 1903.  I'm sure it would put down an elk with the proper rounds.  Just hard to find here (thus expensive).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 16, 2016, 11:04:34 PM
* [Sleezebag] can't win is part of today's articles. They cite how 55% are in the Never [Sleezebag] category, and 70% disapprove of him. Remember how [Sleezebag] used to cite the polls to prove how popular and right he was? He doesn't. The latest poll was taken after the shootings, and people approve of how Hillary and Obama responded rather than [Sleezebag]. So his fearmongering didn't work. Today he was giving depositions. Celebrity chefs Geoffry  Zacharian and Jose Andres were supposed to open restaurants in his new DC hotel, but they refused when he started disparaging Mexicans. [Sleezebag] sued, they counter-sued, hence today's dispositions.

* Hillary's campaign is vetting senator Elizabeth Warren. Strategically speaking, adding another white woman doesn't broaden the appeal, but adding a liberal does. Being a two woman ticket makes [Sleezebag] look bad when he attacks them. Also, removing her from the Senate takes away an embarrassing  voice for bank reform, kinda like Obama deporting Hillary by making her Secretary of State, so she couldn't highjack his healthcare proposal.

* Bernie is doing a simulcast over the internet tonight with his supporters. He's not going to endorse Clinton, and he's not going to give up trying to get concessions out of her , so what's he up to? I think he'll try to transform his movement into a something like Perot did at the end of his first presidential bid, "United We Stand" and organization to endorse candidates, and advocate views. If so, I think he'll learn that he'll make more of a difference as a political party, just as Perot found.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 17, 2016, 12:58:48 AM
* T rump can't win is part of today's articles. They cite how 55% are in the Never T rump category, and 70% disapprove of him. Remember how T rump used to cite the polls to prove how popular and right he was? He doesn't. The latest poll was taken after the shootings, and people approve of how Hillary and Obama responded rather than T rump. So his fearmongering didn't work. Today he was giving depositions. Celebrity chefs Geoffry  Zacharian and Jose Andres were supposed to open restaurants in his new DC hotel, but they refused when he started disparaging Mexicans. T rump sued, they counter-sued, hence today's dispositions.

There was always a nagging thing in my head that wondered if that attack might not have been staged.  (yes, I'm THAT paranoid)  My original thinking was that it would help T rump, but he played it so horribly (and yet predictably), perhaps it's the opposite.  Is there any reasonable chance he could be replaced on the ticket barring him bowing out? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 17, 2016, 02:06:37 AM
20% or so I would guess, with it growing as he keeps opening his mouth.

Basically, there would have to be a very large republican revolt, with the majority of the party threatening to leave the party and form a new party. 

It would have to happen in a very crazy way, however, as he has guaranteed delegates that should automatically vote for him at the convention and thus lock him in.  One thing that I have heard is that the RNC refuses to pay for the convention, and thus there is no vote, and thus craziness.  But, I really don't know.

I am waiting for the RNC to basically say "vote Johnson", or "write in XYZ".

The problem with the RNC, and they recognize it, is that the idiot basically hit the highlights of what the average Joe wants out of the party - security.  Job security with no more farming out of jobs overseas.  Body security with fear of Muslims.  Hey, I live in Detroit, with the largest US population of muslims, but I have friends from Grand Rapids (other side of the state) have never met anybody from the middle east let alone a muslim and get all their info off the news which basically has said since before 9/11 that muslims are a dangerous and crazy group of people! 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 17, 2016, 02:39:48 AM
I don't see how it happens without his resignation or criminal conviction, and while [Sleezebag] is always in court, it's not for criminal stuff. I wonder if any state could have a "recall election" for a presidential primary?   

Most delegates are bound by their states for at least the first ballot, and [Sleezebag] wins. I suppose they might be able to thwart him with lack of a quorum or by having delegates pledged to him miss the first ballot...

That sounds like the only way I know. Abraham Lincoln and four other state legislators once famously vetoed legislation in Illinois by jumping out the window of the state capitol. So for a Republican, it would be an honorable thing.

That would be difficult to orchestrate, though, because the GOP convention not only has delegates, but alternates who sit in the back or the balcony and mostly cheer, usually. But their dream is to stand in. I can't imagine pulling anything like that off secretly. So it would have to be done suddenly. A rousing Lincoln speech before the roll call.

NOW THAT WOULD BE A NEWSWORTHY CONVENTION!

But [Sleezebag]'s nomination is as inevitable as his defeat at this time.


Or as Gary Johnson phrased it - "I'm it."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 17, 2016, 02:43:29 AM
As much as I dislike the guy, he has done 2 very good things:

1) Firmly disproved in the eyes of most Americans that the media is unbiased, and is the ultimate judge of who is and isn't worthy to sit in the Oval Office.  The media hates him (although I expect the producers kinda like him, as he gives them constant sound bites), and have tried to turn every little thing he has said from molehill to mountain - and when he gives them mountains they tend to get lost because of how poor the media has been.  If you think for one second he did the treason Ms Clinton did as sec of state, how would the media be covering it up for him like it is trying to do for her...  I don't think he will win the general election - but even if he doesn't this will be a long lasting legacy of his campaign I think - although the media will do its best to erase it.

2) he turned the lights onto all the elephants in the room.  Particularly the problems of ILLEGAL immigration.  Hey, even the native americans are immigrants, just came over a few thousand years before the rest of us is all.  Although he also wants to change legal immigration - that gets him the negative press - his ideas about ILLEGAL immigration are at least someone willing to take a stand on following the laws.  He also is willing to address Islamic EXTREMISM.  The fact that a religion that has over 22% of the worlds population tends to produce a disproportionate large number of people who basically go bat [poop] crazy and take out large numbers of other people when they do so is a major problem, particularly when their leaders have renamed the US the "Great Satan".  Nobody else has even been willing to say that there is a problem.  Hell, Obama generally even refuses to use the phrase islamic extremism.   To a lesser extent, there is also the elephant of racism in the US.  Movements such as Black Lives Matter are worthy movements, but have inherent flaws in that they imply that "white lives don't matter".   These three ideas have really, when you look at it, defined his campaign to the average Joe Republican.  These are issues that they care A LOT about and the voters showed that to the GOP.  Everybody I know who supports him do so because of these issues, in spite of his many other flaws.  Expect the house and senate seats over the next couple of years to really start looking at these issues in particular and the GOP start to shove these issues ahead of all others.

The fact that the Dems say that they are not issues (or very minor ones) will also be interesting to watch in these lesser campaigns.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 17, 2016, 03:27:39 AM
And then there's this from a guy who should have retired already-

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/58885b65cf714811964305b99ca78d93/mccain-obama-directly-responsible-orlando-shooting (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/58885b65cf714811964305b99ca78d93/mccain-obama-directly-responsible-orlando-shooting)

McCain: Obama 'directly responsible' for Orlando shooting
By ERICA WERNER
 
Jun. 16, 2016 5:56 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican Sen. John McCain said Thursday that President Barack Obama is "directly responsible" for the mass shooting in Orlando, Florida, because of the rise of the Islamic State group on the president's watch. But he later issued a statement saying that he "misspoke."

"I did not mean to imply that the president was personally responsible. I was referring to President Obama's national security decisions, not the president himself," McCain said in his statement, issued as his initial comments were drawing heated criticism from Democrats.

McCain, who lost to Obama in the 2008 presidential election, spoke to reporters in the Capitol Thursday while Obama was in Orlando visiting with the families of those killed in Sunday's attack and some of the survivors.

"Barack Obama is directly responsible for it, because when he pulled everybody out of Iraq, al-Qaida went to Syria, became ISIS, and ISIS is what it is today thanks to Barack Obama's failures, utter failures, by pulling everybody out of Iraq," a visibly angry McCain said as the Senate debated a spending bill.

 "So the responsibility for it lies with President Barack Obama and his failed policies," McCain said.

The gunman, Omar Mateen, killed 49 people and injured more than 50 in the attack at a gay nightclub. The 29-year-old Muslim born in New York made calls during the attack saying he was a supporter of the Islamic State. But he also spoke about an affiliate of al-Qaida and Hezbollah, both of which are IS enemies.

In the aftermath of the shooting, presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald [Sleezebag] has accused Obama of putting U.S. enemies ahead of Americans. [Sleezebag] also has suggested that Obama himself might sympathize with radical elements.

Democrats criticized [Sleezebag] and some Republicans tried to distance themselves from his remarks.

McCain is seeking a sixth Senate term from Arizona and is locked in a tight race. He has a Republican primary on Aug. 30 — the day after his 80th birthday — and a likely general election matchup against three-term Democratic Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick.

Questioned on his startling assertion, McCain initially repeated it: "Directly responsible. Because he pulled everybody out of Iraq, and I predicted at the time that ISIS would go unchecked and there would be attacks on the United States of America. It's a matter of record, so he is directly responsible."

However, about 90 minutes later, McCain issued his statement saying he misspoke, though his statement continued to lay blame for the attack on the president's policies — just not on the president himself.

"As I have said, President Obama's decision to completely withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq in 2011 led to the rise of ISIL. I and others have long warned that the failure of the president's policy to deny ISIL safe haven would allow the terrorist organization to inspire, plan, direct or conduct attacks on the United States and Europe as they have done in Paris, Brussels, San Bernardino and now Orlando."

Democrats quickly pounced on McCain's criticism.

Adam Jentleson, a spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said McCain's "unhinged comments are just the latest proof that Senate Republicans are puppets of Donald [Sleezebag]."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 17, 2016, 08:04:07 AM
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bernie-sanders-offers-no-concession-address-supporters-n594091 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bernie-sanders-offers-no-concession-address-supporters-n594091)

Sanders was more of the same- No concession, no endorsement.

He thanked his supporters  for their work, money, and attendance. Said he will work to defeat [Sleezebag].

He looks forward to working with Clinton on his terms.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 17, 2016, 10:37:30 PM
There was always a nagging thing in my head that wondered if that attack might not have been staged.  (yes, I'm THAT paranoid)  My original thinking was that it would help T rump, but he played it so horribly (and yet predictably), perhaps it's the opposite.  Is there any reasonable chance he could be replaced on the ticket barring him bowing out?


Well, speak of the devil and he appears!
-face-delegate-mutiny-convention/story?id=39940520]http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-face-delegate-mutiny-convention/story?id=39940520 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

Why Donald [Sleezebag] May Still Face a Delegate Mutiny at the Convention
By ALANA ABRAMSON and Katherine Faulders
Jun 17, 2016, 3:35 PM ET

The efforts to stop Donald [Sleezebag] from securing the nomination at the Republican National Convention are heating up, with nearly three dozen delegates dialing into a conference call yesterday to discuss coordinating methods to block his coronation in Cleveland.

The conference call, titled "free the delegates," was led by Kendal Unruh, a Colorado delegate and a member of the GOP's rules committee, which shapes the rules of the convention. Unruh, who is pledged to Ted Cruz, wants to create a rule enabling delegates to abstain from voting for [Sleezebag], even if they are bound to him, if they feel it violates their moral or religious beliefs.

According to participants, there were approximately 30 people representing 15 states on the nearly hour-long phone call. According to one call participant, the focus was on coordinating the multi-state effort, and less on the official plan of action, which is in the works. News of the call was first reported by the Washington Post. Another phone call is scheduled for Sunday night.

"This call will introduce us to each other in preparation for an open “national leadership” call in a few days," the invitation, a copy of which was obtained by ABC News, explains.

Out of the conference call came a centralized method of managing the data, and talks to create a website explaining the mission, Unruh said.

The idea is to coalesce behind a plan to stop [Sleezebag] and not unite behind a particular person, though many are former Cruz supporters.

Even if Unruh has managed to develop grassroots support for this idea, however, it is still an uphill climb for this to actually happen.

A conscience clause can only be implemented if it is approved by a majority of the rules committee. And even if the rules committee approves it, it still needs to be approved by a majority of the delegates on the convention floor.

According to current rules, delegates are bound to vote for the candidate they are pledged to -- which is based on primary and caucus votes. [Sleezebag] has garnered 1,543 delegates, according to ABC News' most recent estimate, more than the 1,237 needed to clinch the nomination outright.

Also under current rules, if a candidate does not receive more than half of the delegates on the first ballot, some are released on the second ballot to vote for whomever they want.

Efforts to stop [Sleezebag] have focused on fomenting dissent among delegates pledged to the real estate mogul or putting delegates in place who would not vote for [Sleezebag] on subsequent ballots.

The group claims that more than half the delegates who will be at the convention in July do not want [Sleezebag] as president or the candidate for the Republican Party. But Unruh says she was the only member of the rules committee on the call last night. And other members of the committee have told ABC News they aren’t on board.

“Donald [Sleezebag] won it fair and square,” Cindy Costa, a delegate from South Carolina who is also serving on the rules committee, said last week. An unbinding rule is not only unrealistic and unfair, she said, but would cause “magnificent chaos.”

Kelly Arnold, chairman of the Kansas Republican Party and another member of the rules committee, told ABC News last week he is going to do “what’s in the best interest” of the GOP.

"I don’t see myself making any drastic changes," he said.

[Sleezebag] released a statement calling the effort “totally illegal.”

"I won almost 14 million votes, which is by far more votes than any candidate in the history of the Republican primaries,” [Sleezebag]’s statement read. “I have tremendous support and get the biggest crowds by far and any such move would not only be totally illegal but also a rebuke of the millions of people who feel so strongly about what I am saying. People that I defeated soundly in the primaries will do anything to get a second shot -- but there is no mechanism for it to happen.”

The RNC did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

ABC News’ John Kruzel contributed reporting. "
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 17, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
Cruz' idea, I bet...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Agora_Black_Flag on June 19, 2016, 04:23:59 PM
I voted for Bernie in the Caucus but I will not be voting for Hillary or [Sleezebag] come election time. There is going to be a serious third party contender this year. Whether its Bernie independent/Green, Gary Johnson LP Libertarian, or Jill Stein Green Party. I will probably go with them.

People are just too pissed off with the mainstream choices. Gary Johnson is already on all the ballot in 50 polling at 11-13% (needs 15 for debates) and they are saying Jill Stein will be on the ballot in all 50 come election time.

This will be one for the history books.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: DrazharLn on June 20, 2016, 10:58:29 PM
Bernie isn't gonna split the vote. That would be crazy.

And considering voting for T rump? The man is a lunatic!

Voting him in would seriously hurt American foreign relations, even if his legislative power was completely neutered by congress. And if his power wasn't neutered? That's a bad time for everyone.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 21, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-special-report-hundreds-gop-000000630.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-special-report-hundreds-gop-000000630.html)

Getting rid of [Sleezebag] is sounding more and more likely.  Not probable yet, but getting there.
Shame the Dem's won't do the same thing for the traitor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2016, 02:20:17 PM
It is a shame - but when you're QUITE so hard on her, you lose a lot of credibility with me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on June 21, 2016, 02:43:19 PM
Clinton's just a run of the mill morally bankrupt politician. Nothing special about her. Any candidate you think doesn't have skeletons probably does, and if they don't, being president for more than six months will give them some.

[Sleezebag] is an altogether different beast.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2016, 02:55:32 PM
^This.

I'm hardly the Hildog's biggest fan -that would be Valjiir1, who posted in here a few months ago- but start mentioning Vince Foster and I stop listening.

-It's like Bakrama; plenty of stuff he ACTUALLY did didn't do that he deserves kicking around about, so why the constant crap-talking about imaginary shortcomings?  Don't waste my time with the Anne Coulter talk; I was sick of it over a decade before Anne Coulter.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 21, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
Setting up a private server to store email and classified documents while secretary of state.  The server itself is proof of criminal activity - and a disregard for rules and regulations more suited to an absolute monarch than a presidential candidate. 

Her constant dismissal of the matter, and the FBI investigations snail pace, is just prolonging the agony.  (The 'Anne Coulter' version is that her buddy Obama is delaying the investigation to see if she wins the election, than she can bury it, and if she doesn't win his hands never got dirty and the investigations prints its 500-600 page report in due course.)  It would be far better for all involved to just publish even a prelim report to clear the air (unless she is guilty). 

And remember how the world ended up learning about her server: through the investigation on her conduct in Benghazi.  She is the one who preferred to lie and blame the attack on a spontaneous response to a movie that hardly anybody had heard of rather than admit that her and the administration's plans for Libya had gone so far astray.



Personally, I think it is almost a guarantee that she will win by running against [Sleezebag] (well, more like he will loose).  Which, is kind of a shame in regards to this issue because there will always be suspicion that will never be resolved unless you get some Watergate Tape type of evidence someday.  The whole disprove the negative thing, here, really, will server to screw her if she wins.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2016, 05:37:26 PM
Please understand that I say the following not out of support for Mrs. Clinton, but because I believe it's a big stack of hate-lies swallowed whole and regurgitated uncritically by pretty much everyone on the right.

 ;lalala

-You do not even the cause of hating Mrs. Clinton a service in this.  Mr. Clinton got away with it precisely because the haterz came on too hard, and over half of everyone stopped listening.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 21, 2016, 06:27:24 PM
Setting up a private server to store email and classified documents while secretary of state.  The server itself is proof of criminal activity - and a disregard for rules and regulations more suited to an absolute monarch than a presidential candidate. 


Let's pretend for the sake of argument that you might know someone who has been a part of an FBI investigation revolving around the mishandling of classified information and items, and might have a little more perspective than most people on what is going on and what the rules are and were. 

1:  At the time of it's setup, the server was 100% Kosher with the rules, bordering on regular practice. 
2:  During the time of it's use, the rules changed slightly in insisting official copies be kept, BUT IT WAS STILL LEGAL TO HAVE A PRIVATE SERVER.   
3:  At present, private servers are against the rules, but that can't be retroactively applied here.   
 
Sorry.  Was it best practice?  No.  Was it discouraged?  sorta.  Was it known the rules would outlaw it at some point?  Yes.  Was it ILLEGAL?  [fuddle-duddle] no. 

Quote
Her constant dismissal of the matter, and the FBI investigations snail pace, is just prolonging the agony.  (The 'Anne Coulter' version is that her buddy Obama is delaying the investigation to see if she wins the election, than she can bury it, and if she doesn't win his hands never got dirty and the investigations prints its 500-600 page report in due course.)  It would be far better for all involved to just publish even a prelim report to clear the air (unless she is guilty). 

Anyone that's been in an FBI investigation thinks this one is moving at a blisteringly fast pace. 

Quote
So far the State Department has publicly released more than 30,000 of Clinton’s own emails. Of these 22 were classified by the State Department as “top secret,” 65 as “secret” and 2,028 as “confidential.”

These are PRESENT classifications.  Doesn't mean they WERE classified at the time.  "Confidential" could be anything as simple as personal info on someone.  I can't speak to the others, but to say that I've witnessed pieces of equipment with components widely commercially available be classified for reasons I don't comprehend.  However, I'm willing to believe they were either not classified at the time or improperly marked as unclassified at the time just based on my experience.  I consider this dismissively, myself.  I very highly doubt anything will come of it, aside from maybe someone getting in trouble for improper marking. 

Quote
And remember how the world ended up learning about her server: through the investigation on her conduct in Benghazi.

Actually, no one cared, despite the fact she was under investigation back to 2013, and the private emails existing being publicly available knowledge at that time.

Original committees (6? 8? whatever) found nothing. 2014, Republicans appointed a new committee in fine partisan muckraking.  They asked for the emails, and Clinton turned them over to no fanfare from the public. 

Wasn't until 2015 (after the election cycle started to pick up) that a 'hacker' dumped some of the emails that the media picked up on it, leading to all the public 'outrage' now. 



I don't care for Clinton, and think she's all kinds of dirty politician for other reasons, but the email thing is just silly. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 21, 2016, 06:46:12 PM
In short, it's fake.  Nobody's buying this manufactured 'scandal' except the haterz who already did - just like every manufactured 'scandal' the professional haters have manufactured on her and her scumbag husband.  It's a bill of goods.

It's no better than the imaginary socialist Muslim Obama who isn't a moderate with no fight in him like the ACTUAL Obama.  -A pack of lies, mixed with half-truths and irrelevancies, in short.

The ghost of Lee Atwater can try to foul the world crapping in our hats and telling us it's perfume, but I don't have to buy it - and you don't to believe it or keep offering the same ol' hatful of rank, stinky, runny poop, which is all it is.  Acting like that for three decades straight is why the right's in so much trouble now.  Slag Clinton and Obama -and whomever else- for the ways they really suck -not a short list in either case- and stop wasting everyone's time being ugly with the make-believe.

Please.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 23, 2016, 01:58:01 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-27-realistic-sanders-convention-000000028.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-27-realistic-sanders-convention-000000028.html)

Bernie's demands (and Yahoo's analysis) of what he wants to support clinton
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 27, 2016, 02:43:49 PM
Rusty, who's Marc Allan Feldman?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 28, 2016, 03:37:58 AM
Headline I saw on Facebook:

George Will: Columnist Says He Has Left Republican Party Because of Donald [Sleezebag]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 28, 2016, 09:50:35 PM
Another Facebook headline:
Quote
Mike Pompeo: House Benghazi Committee Member Criticizes Hillary Clinton's Leadership During 2012 Attack

Rep. Pompeo, R-Kansas, and Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, on Tuesday released an addendum to the committee's Benghazi report, saying Clinton "failed to lead" as secretary of state.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Mike-Pompeo/109196455804077?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6301335718592390374 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Mike-Pompeo/109196455804077?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6301335718592390374)

...I don't believe the Secretary of State normally attends to details of embassy security in any way -thus my position that this is yet another manufactured scandal w/ fake outrage and lack of patience for those -credulously or cynically, alike- spreading it, but "failed to lead"?  I'll eat THAT up with a spoon; it sounds like th' Hildog to me... 

It's also a very legitimate point to raise during a campaign for what is SUPPOSED -Bakrama take note; you failed at this- to be a LEADERSHIP position...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 28, 2016, 09:56:52 PM
It's just disgusting how blatantly partisan the whole thing is. 

Dems release their report yesterday absolving Hillary of everything, Reps release theirs today laying all blame on her.  And a couple reps go even further issuing separate addendums. 

Really?  Whatever.  Both sides are full of it.  Where's that third option?  He's being awful quiet...

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 28, 2016, 11:13:24 PM
I tend to imagine a right-wing outsider like Johnson really disliking Mrs. Clinton and finding the Bengazi 'scandal' super-fake at the same time...  The good Libertarians aren't afraid to take nuanced positions like that, for all that they're very much not about nuance...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on June 29, 2016, 01:27:25 AM
I started looking at the report (well, lets me honest, it was already edited and very abbreviated and all sorts of other things). 

It came across as "these are where the failures were, and how they happened."  Kinda a listing of facts.  Didn't pull any punches, but didn't really come across as laying blame either (except with Obama, who judging and reading between the lines, appeared to be distracted and wasn't paying attention like he should have been - along with the old adage of "the buck stops here").  The errors that would point to Clinton were along the lines of "this system wasn't working as intended, and was never corrected even though the flaw was known about for X amount of time".  A lot of stuff like that.  Being in AutoTownUSA and the ideas of recalls, recall notices, etc. are almost daily news items here, I can easily see how a lot of small details not being addressed ASAP can sound like A BIG DEAL, but really isn't anything of the sort. 

It really comes across as being a "this is what happened, why it happened, and don't let it happen again" type of document.  The biggest criticism was that after the first attack (with the first 2 deaths) Washington appeared to do nothing, and then 8 hours later the next 2 deaths happened.  It was also pretty clear, though, that there really didn't appear to be a lot that could have been done, other than sending in the marines - and chances are they would not have gotten there in time anyways, and if they did would they have had enough bang?  Unknowns, but doubtfuls.  Washington decided not to because (and this is partisan, I am sure) because of a desire to not inflame any more negative opinions - or something like that. 

As the dems came out with their version the day earlier, I see why the Republicans came out with the "supplemental" after the fact - keep things partisan.  My feeling is the Dems came out worse than the repub's, but not by much.  By issuing their "Clinton is shiny and white" version first, it really came across as trying to hide something, or at least being very paranoid.  The repub's would have gotten more mileage I think if they would have just said "see the report" instead of going after clinton directly - but it is campaign time and pot shots will be taken.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 29, 2016, 07:49:45 PM
That's a reasonably reasonable take...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 29, 2016, 07:55:41 PM
The part of the article GodKing linked above last week about Sanders...

Quote
Unconventional #27: How realistic is Sanders’ convention wish list? Plus: the rules nerd behind the new push to ‘free the delegates’ in Cleveland (and more!)
Yahoo
Andrew Romano  West Coast Correspondent  June 22, 2016


Unconventional is Yahoo News’ complete guide to what could be the craziest presidential conventions in decades. Here’s what you need to know today.


1. Bernie’s wish list: which of his demands will be met at the convention — and which won’t

Little-known fact: Bernie Sanders is still (technically) running for president.

It’s true. Even though you no longer see him railing against billionaires on TV, and even though he delivered what sounded a lot like a concession speech two days after losing the June 7 make-or-break California primary by nearly 13 percentage points, the senator from Vermont still hasn’t officially dropped out of the Democratic primary contest.

He isn’t attacking Hillary Clinton anymore. He isn’t fantasizing about flipping superdelegates. He’s abandoned all pretense of nabbing the nomination in Philadelphia.

And yet Sanders is still charging U.S. taxpayers more than $38,000 a day to continue his campaign.

Why? Because Bernie has a wish list.

In a series of statements over the past few weeks, Sanders has made it abundantly clear what he wants from Clinton and the Democratic establishment before he will concede, endorse, and “unite the party.”

With 33 days to go until Philly, Unconventional decided to rank each item on Sanders’ wish list — from most realistic to least — based on the current political climate and the progress (or lack of progress) by him and his team so far.

We’ll regularly revisit these rankings as the convention approaches.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/IO62.ZFChw2uvQNoe10n6g--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9MjA0ODtoPTEzNjU-/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/ddb6af7677bbd3f348e5927d9b04538a)


Replace DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz

In Sanders’ words: “We need a person at the leadership of the DNC who is vigorously supporting and out working to bring people into the political process. Yeah, I know, political parties need money. But it is more important that we have energy, that we have young people, that we have working-class people who are going to participate in the political process and fight for their kids and for their parents.”

Odds: Sanders may already be well on his way to getting his wish. Last Thursday, the Clinton campaign effectively took control of the DNC, sidelining Wasserman Schultz and installing Brandon Davis, national political director for the Service Employees International Union, to oversee the party’s day-to-day operations in her stead.

There is nothing unusual about this. The same thing happened in 2008 when Barack Obama clinched the Democratic nomination and quickly replaced then-DNC Chair Howard Dean with his trusted aide Paul Tewes.

Assuming Clinton wins in November, the question is what happens after Election Day, when Davis’ stint is scheduled to end. Will Clinton announce a new DNC chair in a bid for unity, perhaps at the convention? Or will she hope the intraparty opposition dies down and offer Wasserman Schultz — long seen as a Hillary loyalist, especially among disgruntled Sanders supporters — the opportunity to keep her job?

We’re guessing that Debbie will go — perhaps sooner rather than later. In May, CNN reported that “three Democrats with ties to the party’s power centers — President Barack Obama, Clinton and Sanders — made clear that few are rooting for Wasserman Schultz’s survival at the DNC.”

“If this is the one thing that provides unity, they would take that trade,” said one senior Democratic strategist who had spoken to the White House. “Nobody is rushing to keep her.”

Or as another Democratic adviser close to Clinton said of Wasserman Schultz, “There is an exhaustion that comes with dealing with her.”


Reduce the role of superdelegates

In Sanders’ words: “We also need obviously to get rid of superdelegates. The idea that we had 400 superdelegates pledged to a candidate some eight months or more before the first ballot was cast is, to my mind, absurd. And we need to also make sure that superdelegates do not live in a world of their own but reflect the views of the people of their own state.”

Odds: Improving. No matter what Sanders says, the Democratic Party is unlikely to “get rid” of superdelegates altogether. Achieving that goal would require the superdelegates to vote themselves out of existence, and that’s not something they’re interested in doing.

Superdelegates are, for the most part, sitting governors, senators, and House members. They want to attend the convention and participate in the debates over the rules, the platform, and other issues. They want to have a say in the direction of their party. And they don’t want to have to run against their own constituents, which is the only way they could become regular old pledged delegates.

(This was precisely the rationale cited earlier this week by the Congressional Black Caucus in a letter to both the Sanders and Clinton campaigns explaining why they “recently voted unanimously to oppose any suggestion or idea to eliminate the category of Unpledged Delegate to the Democratic National Convention.”)

Signs are emerging, however, than many superdelegates might be willing to reduce or even relinquish their biggest superpower — namely, the power to overturn a primary result they find distasteful. Over the last week, Politico interviewed 20 of Sanders’ Senate colleagues and found that “more than half … support at least lowering the number of superdelegates, and all but two said the party should take up the matter at next month’s convention in Philadelphia, despite the potential for a high-profile intraparty feud at a critical moment in the campaign.”

Even Clinton’s prospective running mates are open to reform.

“I’m a superdelegate, and I don’t believe in superdelegates,” said Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

“Having party leaders participate is fine, but I think having some connection to the outcome of your state’s process is smart,” said Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine.

“I’m fine with whatever they negotiate,” added Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown. “I just don’t care about superdelegates. I don’t care about the whole thing.”

Given that both California and Nebraska Democrats voted against the existing superdelegate system at their state conventions this weekend, it’s looking increasingly likely that some sort of reform may emerge from Philadelphia. Perhaps it will be a reduction in number. Or perhaps it will be a new rule that binds the superdelegates to “reflect the views of the people of their own state,” as Sanders himself has demanded. We shall see.


Make the Democratic Party platform more liberal

In Sanders’ words: “We need, at the Democratic National Convention, to approve a progressive platform: the most progressive platform ever passed by the Democratic Party; a platform which makes it crystal clear that the Democratic Party is, in fact, on the side of working people.”

Odds: The 2016 Democratic platform may end up being more liberal than its 2012 or 2008 predecessors. But that’s because the party in general — and Clinton specifically — has already shifted to the left over the course of the campaign, in large part because of Sanders. Any progressive changes to the existing platform will probably be ones that Clinton has already signaled her comfort with — an emphasis on fair trade rather than free trade, opposition to the Keystone XL pipeline and an increase in the national minimum wage — rather than last-minute concessions extracted by Sanders in exchange for his endorsement.

Sanders simply doesn’t have much leverage left. He does, however, have a little. Last month, Sanders was awarded more seats on the Platform Drafting Committee than any runner-up in Democratic history; several of his appointees — philosophy professor Cornel West; Arab American Institute president James Zogby; Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison — are notably less pro-Israel than the current party platform, or Clinton for that matter. If Sanders & Co. were to threaten an ugly floor flight over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict — and at the initial platform hearings, West and Zogby have already clashed with Clinton supporters over terms like “occupation” — it’s possible that Team Clinton might try to convince them to back down by ceding ground elsewhere.

This would be a risky move on Sanders’ part; Clinton has already rejected many of his demands, including free public-college tuition and single-payer health care, and much of the rest of the party would not look kindly on a floor fight. But who knows how far the senator is willing to go to satisfy his supporters — and to secure his progressive legacy?


Reform the Democratic voting process

In Sanders’ words: “We need real electoral reform within the Democratic Party. And that means — among many, many other things — open primaries. The idea that in the State of New York, the great State of New York, 3 million people could not participate in helping to select who the Democratic or Republican candidate for president would be because they had registered as an independent not as a Democrat or a Republican is incomprehensible.”

Odds: Not going to happen. Most Democratic Party regulars — aka delegates — want to strengthen the Democratic Party. They want to attract converts. But while allowing non-Democrats to vote in a Democratic primary might get voters invested in the candidate they support, it won’t get them invested in the party. It doesn’t help the party identify regular voters; it doesn’t build loyalty to the ticket.

Right now, some states have open primaries; others are closed. It’s up to each state party — the organization paying for the primary, incidentally — to decide which system it prefers. It’s almost impossible to imagine these delegations voting in Philadelphia to abandon their autonomy in favor of a 50-state open-primary requirement.

As for Sanders’ other major electoral reform proposal — same-day voter registration — most Democrats support it. In fact, Clinton has gone one step further and said that all Americans should be automatically registered to vote when they turn 18 (unless they opt out). But state governments set voter registration laws — not the Democratic Party. Sanders is barking up the wrong tree here.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-27-realistic-sanders-convention-000000028.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-27-realistic-sanders-convention-000000028.html)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on June 29, 2016, 08:10:46 PM
Any economists aboard? 

Want to chime in on [Sleezebag]'s proposal to blow up all trade agreements? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 29, 2016, 08:46:00 PM
Bidness likes to know what's coming -and a certain amount of connected stability- and so he's bad for bidness.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 29, 2016, 08:59:02 PM
Quote
FiveThirtyEight: Site's Nate Silver Predicts Hillary Clinton Will Win General Election Over Donald [Sleezebag]

The editor-in-chief of the statistical analysis website said on ABC's "Good Morning America" Wednesday that Clinton has a 79 percent chance of winning compared to 20 percent for [Sleezebag].
https://www.facebook.com/topic/FiveThirtyEight/102185646489640?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6301704763476003493 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/FiveThirtyEight/102185646489640?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6301704763476003493)



...Beginning to see sane voices saying things like this lately...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 30, 2016, 04:10:28 AM
Rusty, who's Marc Allan Feldman?

He was a doctor from Cleveland. He was a contender for the Libertarian presidential nomination. I think he came in 5th .He had a terrific sense of humor. He wrote /performed Libertarian rap during the debates. He was born the same year as me. Found dead in a hotel room. Everyone liked him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2016, 04:20:02 AM
Thankee, sir.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 30, 2016, 10:10:21 PM
Okay. New Ad. Reminds me of the one he was using to try to secure the nomination. What do you think?

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjrIoTZzDxA#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 30, 2016, 10:18:52 PM
-Just paste the url with the 's' out of https - and edit the post once it's up to remove the no longer available crap and let the title display on the vid itself.  It only works with the long addresses, though, not the short phone ones like you just posted.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on June 30, 2016, 11:50:35 PM
Thanks. Got it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2016, 12:56:25 AM
It's okay - but you know I think they ought to go short - Weld is taller and a lot better-looking, which is sort of a problem when he's the underside of the ticket.  They also can't say third option with him there.

Note that the mark in the middle of their bumper sticker symbol is flattened out, but is a swoosh, of sorts.  Be sure to point out in the right places how much more paying someone gets you.

I think it was positive, it was about they are awesome, not much about the others are suck, and they made their case that they're qualified, sane, and not extremist when they're not taking away school lunches from children.  It isn't the commercial I would have made, but little wrong with it that separating the two and cutting down Weld's part -screw 'im; he's just the running mate, not equal partner, not best bud- wouldn't fix.

You could cut a number of 10-15 second spots out of that, especially if photos of Johnson managing to look noble and leadery exist. to superimpose over American freedom imagery.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 01, 2016, 01:12:40 AM
I'm wondering, guys - how do you see [Sleezebag]'s chances now? Recently I've looked up the Remain-Leave polls in the UK and the Clinton-[Sleezebag] polls over at your place and they look kinda identical, 55%-45% respectively. That is, right until the very end in the UK, with a sharp sudden turn for "Leave". Tell me it's not gonna happen with [Sleezebag] in the US, because something I don't know. It won't, will it? I still remember some expert saying many months ago that [Sleezebag] has more chances to get into the NBA that be appointed the Rep nominee...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2016, 01:16:30 AM
I still think it's no contest.  It started out Mrs. Clinton's race to lose -alas- and it still is.  The pig's not a real candidate, and people aren't as stupid as the mass media group mind has ginned the thing up into, to sell papers.  More people will turn out to vote against the dirty clown than turn out to vote against the harpy.  A LOT more.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 01, 2016, 01:27:25 AM
Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to here. There's a string of bad news from all over the world and [Sleezebag]'s victory would, well, [Sleezebag] them all. Kinda like reverse singularity, nobody actually knows what would really happen (not even the pig himself), but it'd sure as hell spell a complete disaster.

BTW, what's the deal with this thingy that looks like a space in the pig's name posted here?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2016, 01:51:49 AM
Swear filter.

I won't say his name -what he wants more than anything, and the reason he's a problem, that people won't. stop. talking. about him- and I can't see my way to forbidding others to do so, but at least we're generating no search engine hits when he IS named.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 01, 2016, 04:33:02 AM
538, who correctly predicted every state in 2008 and 49/50 in 2012,
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=2016-election

Rates Clinton as a 79.2% chance of winning, [Sleezebag] as 20.7%

Yeah. Johnson is at less than 0.1% .   

----------------------------------
But stuff will happen. Like yesterday it came out that Bill Clinton met privately with the US Attorney general for half an hour.  Now most people would consider that a conflict of interest, considering that his wife is under investigation by the FBI, which reports to the Attorney General.

No, the AG, didn't report the "chance" encounter, or recuse herself, although when questioned, she said they spoke of "grandchildren, primarily".

Oh, that's reassuring.


Well, maybe it's the serenity on the fishing trip, but instead of being outraged, I just shook my head and laughed. Those rascally Clintons are always surpising me with how brazen they are, and how guilty they act.

What do I mean by that? Famous  lawyer/scholar Alan Dershowitz once said that the difference between a guilty client and an innocent one is this- the guilty always try to hide everything, and the innocent think that full disclosure will prove the truth.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 01, 2016, 04:52:53 AM
It's okay - but you know I think they ought to go short - Weld is taller and a lot better-looking, which is sort of a problem when he's the underside of the ticket.  They also can't say third option with him there.

Note that the mark in the middle of their bumper sticker symbol is flattened out, but is a swoosh, of sorts.  Be sure to point out in the right places how much more paying someone gets you.

I think it was positive, it was about they are awesome, not much about the others are suck, and they made their case that they're qualified, sane, and not extremist when they're not taking away school lunches from children.  It isn't the commercial I would have made, but little wrong with it that separating the two and cutting down Weld's part -screw 'im; he's just the running mate, not equal partner, not best bud- wouldn't fix.

You could cut a number of 10-15 second spots out of that, especially if photos of Johnson managing to look noble and leadery exist. to superimpose over American freedom imagery.

Gary shattered a vertebrae in a paragliding accident- I think he fell 50 feet after hitting a tree and lost
an inch and a half. IIRC.

I still love Weld for being the Republican that stood up to Ed Meese and Jesse Helms.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 01, 2016, 06:31:52 AM
Swear filter.

T rump.

*snicker*
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 01, 2016, 03:36:48 PM
I'm strangely comfortable with referring to him as the pig and the pig only. Nevertheless, you need to bear in mind that when people are tired enough of the establishment, they can do the most idiotic, imbecilic and suicidal thing to themselves, just out of spite. Isn't the entire harpy-pig clash mainly an 'establishment v. anti-establishment' story? If so, you may want to start mobilizing anti-pig voters now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 01, 2016, 03:55:53 PM
It's mostly a "nobody likes Mrs. Clinton much and nearly half the people harbor such an irrational hatred they'd consider a dangerous circus clown or staying home rather than admit she's barely even evil on a lesser-of-two-evils choice" story.

I don't want her  -and to hear her &^%$#@! haterz whine at full volume non-stop for four years incessantly- either, and she'll be a terrible leader, like Bakrama is now - but she's a capable administrator, who'll make a relatively competent president, leaving aside all the Clinton-hater badmouthing, lies and nonsense that will make the news so unbearable that the US will only be marginally habitable the whole time.

I've said all this before several times in this thread for a year now, including that MR. Clinton -a vile douchebag I wish would hurry up and go away for good, finally- will make the Best. First Lady. EVAH...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 02, 2016, 12:04:52 AM
I still think you should vote for T rump as a protest vote.  Can guarantee after that politics will fix itself up once and for all.  Might be worth sacrificing the next 4 years to shake the system up to get the Pollies you need and want.
Title: ‘We’re going to the convention’: Sanders continues fundraising as campaigm fades
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 02, 2016, 12:09:45 AM
Quote
‘We’re going to the convention’: Bernie Sanders continues fundraising as campaign fades
Yahoo
Caitlin Dickson  Breaking News Reporter  July 01, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/a5Cafspv_kVyfA3SNB5m0A--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9NTE3O2lsPXBsYW5l/https://67.media.tumblr.com/d5b4ef84f9aedb881109d100306303c3/tumblr_inline_o9n4tf2VZg1tnzyj5_540.jpg)
Bernie Sanders delivers his “Where We Go From Here” speech on June 24 in Albany, N.Y. (Photo: Mike Groll/AP)



Sen. Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign is still raising funds from supporters despite the fact that presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton essentially locked up the nomination weeks ago.

Sanders’ campaign fired off multiple fundraising requests to supporters on Thursday, ahead of the Federal Election Committee’s final fundraising deadline. “We’re going to the convention,” one email declared, referring to the Democratic National Convention later this month.

“When our delegates gather in Philadelphia, they’ll have the chance to put the Democratic Party on the record about stopping votes against the TPP, fighting for a $15 federal minimum wage, opposing fracking, and so many more progressive priorities,” Sanders’ campaign manager wrote to supporters on Thursday night

“Our campaign has earned the right to send almost 1,900 delegates to vote on these important issues, but many of them are working folks and the costs of attending the convention are too high,” read another email. “So I want to help them get there, because this campaign isn’t about Bernie Sanders, it’s about all of us.”

Sanders mounted a stronger-than-expected campaign in the Democratic primary. The last contest was on June 12, and a week before that contest, Clinton obtained the necessary delegates to become the nominee.


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/cRu50ZVPy0.DXfe.0Lj9gQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9MzM2O2lsPXBsYW5l/https://65.media.tumblr.com/d012f3470ed886f68004a1d6748b1c8c/tumblr_inline_o9n4tflmcw1tnzyj5_540.png.cf.jpg)
Screenshot via BernieSanders.com


Sanders, who has steadfastly refused to concede the race, has started signaling that he’s moving toward endorsing Clinton. Last week, Sanders said “yes” when asked if he will end up voting for her.

“I’m going to do everything I can to defeat Donald [Sleezebag],” he said.

Still, Sanders seems determined to hang onto his candidacy for as long as possible. While he told MSNBC’s Chris Hayes Thursday evening that — contrary to what [Sleezebag] has been saying — “I do not hate Secretary Clinton,” Sanders also pushed back against comments made earlier in the day by Vice President Joe Biden, who told NPR he’s confident “Bernie’s going to endorse her.”

“Right now, my hope is that we can reach an agreement on some very important issues and I can go forward to the millions of people who supported me and say, ‘Look, this is the progress that you’ve made. This is where we’re going to go as a country,‘” Sanders said. “So, I hope it happens. As of this moment, we’re not there quite yet.”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-campaign-still-fundraising-ahead-000000923.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/sanders-campaign-still-fundraising-ahead-000000923.html)



Seems consistent with what I've predicted all along: get what delegates he can for leverage, go to the convention and fight like a wolverine for some good progressive platform planks, endorse Mrs. Clinton hard, and possibly actively campaign on her behalf before he goes home, a job done well beyond all reasonable expectations of success...  He certainly strikes me as the sort who'd do exactly that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: BU Admin on July 02, 2016, 12:12:31 AM
I cannot recommend trolling today, or ever in this thread.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 02, 2016, 12:16:50 AM
I'm not trolling.  I am advocating a protest vote to teach the Pollies a lesson.

It's voting day for us today.  I predict that the primary vote of the 2 main parties will be low in protest of them.  Lots of minor party / independent primary votes today, but as usual, the preference flow will go to the 2 main parties.

But enough protest votes and it'll hit the 2 main parties financially.  It's $2.30 a vote to the parties you know.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the primary polls of the 2 main parties are low for them.  We've got the highest ever non 2 main party polling every seen in our history.  We're talking about 23% polling against the 2 main parties!!!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 02, 2016, 12:25:57 AM
I already lodged a protest vote, for Sanders.  I never thought he was going to win.  I seem to always make protest votes in the presidential primaries.

Look - I don't entirely disagree that the system needs some serious blowing up, but I'd vote for You for President of the US before --- that trashy fame-hungry no-class celebrity.

I'm sick of lowest-common-denominator ignorant bad-mouthing substituting for political discourse since that disgusting empty shirt Reagan made it popular when I was still a kid.  The Know-Nothing party got stuck with just about the worst possible 'person' imaginable to try to tempt me into a protest vote with this time...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 02, 2016, 01:23:12 AM
Sanders is not a protest vote. Sanders is a Democrat alternative. But still a Democrat vote.

If you truly wanted to protest vote you'd vote for an Independent.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 02, 2016, 01:45:46 AM
He's a fake Democrat - having you not been keeping up that much?

-Turns out that back in the 90's, before disgust with the Cheney Bund soured me to the news completely, I was a bit of a C-Span junkie, and always wondered who the Independent was who always seemed to be there, voting, and getting it right as near as I could suss out what the bill was really about.  Turns out that was Mr. Sanders.  I like a lot of things about him, and contentiously-working Congressman I agreed with w/o knowing who that was, is one of them.

-He was a protest vote only in the sense that I didn't think for a second I was voting for someone who would actually win - I genuinely like the cut of his jib in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 02, 2016, 05:39:43 AM
Says here he's a Democrat.

https://berniesanders.com/?nosplash=true%2F

Not hard to understand that one.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 02, 2016, 02:25:49 PM
Not hard to find out when he changed registration to democratic, either.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 02, 2016, 06:56:13 PM
Just to bounce this idea around more, and I'm knocking on wood here, what, in your opinion, is the extent of POTUS' actual power? Like, suppose a criminally insane pig got the job - to what extent can he actually get his way? Speaking of things like dismantling NATO, building that wall, etc. I mean, he's still surrounded by sane people, right? Both the establishment and the democratic institutions should contain him at least somewhat, shouldn't they?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 02, 2016, 07:12:55 PM
So, SO much depends on the leadership ability of the Prez.  -He has all these POWAHS, but is easily blocked on a lot of them if he's bad at tapping into the zeitgeist - witness Bakrama, who seems to be a good man who looks great to other countries - but hasn't lived up to his potential as a leader.  95% of everything anyone the slightest bit to the right of him says about him is utter fantasies and lies -socialist, my butt; he's barely even a Democrat- and he's not popular enough that the righties are too embarrassed lie their pants off non-stop about him for the last seven years.  (Making themselves obnoxious beyond description in the process, to those of us who bother to think for themselves and actually look at what the President has done and said.)

The real power is with the people, swear to God, even in our present corporate oligarchy trying to veer over into outright fascism.  Money can buy ads, but it can't make people believe what they don't want to.

-Furthermore, we don't actually know what the Pig would actually DO, given the chance; he's a habitual liar on a scale that makes Bill Clinton look like Mr. Rogers, and we have little idea what he really thinks and believes when he's not spouting garbage for the attention.  I cannot rule out that he'd end up being competent and sane in the office - though I can rule out him ever behaving with class, dignity and integrity in public...

-Which is to say, he's gonna lose, but he probably wouldn't start WW3 like he seems poised to try if you believe what he says, if he got in...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 03, 2016, 12:17:03 AM
Well our election yesterday has certainly been an eye opener!  And will create a number of shocks over the next few weeks.

No result as yet.  The 2-party preferred result is split 50-50, with Coalition taking 50.04% and Labor 49.96%.

At present (76 seats to win):
Coalition: 67
Labor: 67
Greens: 1
Others: 4
Unknown: 11

So those last 11 seats will determine who wins.  The election could go in a number of directions from here:

1. It's possible for Coalition to win enough seats to form majority Govt.
2. Labor isn't ahead in enough unknown seats to form majority, but can form minority Govt.
3. It's doubtful the minors will play with the Coalition, so it's possible we go back to the polls.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 03, 2016, 12:54:23 AM
Coalition would be Liberal and who else?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 03, 2016, 08:33:30 AM
Liberals
National Party (most States)
Liberal National Party (LNP Queensland only)
Country Liberal Party (CLP Northern Territory only)
National Party of Western Australia

Whilst the Nationals are in coalition, WAs section of the party is under a different agreement and speak separately to the main National party.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2016, 07:30:10 AM
I won't call this gleanings, because it's more like meanderings and musings tonight.

So- the Attorney General hasn't recused herself, she simply said she will accept the FBI's recommendation on the Clinton probe. I guess it is a criminal investigation because a judge used the term, and Hillary voluntarily underwent a 3&1/2 hour interrogation Saturday. That should have been the last step. Either they have what they need to prosecute a crime or they don't.  When we will learn that, I have no idea.

----------

Gary Johnson was interviewed on CNN. They were asking him about the other candidates rather than what his positions were. Usually he pivots back to issues. Today he said that he doesn't think Hillary met the criminal intent threshold. He said that [Sleezebag] was a racist. He didn't finesse it the way that Hillary and Obama have. Racist became the soundbite, and now those looking for a diversion from Hillary's hardships ran with it.

Me, I'd go with the "I don't want to talk about Donald and Hillary, they have a right to a fair trial, and Libertarians stand up for everybody's rights all the time."


Johnson got a lot of hate from the [Sleezebag] voters in various comment sections and facebook. Well, I can see that if they are insisting that all is mere political correctness, and that [Sleezebag] "tells it like it is" , calling him a racist is calling them racists, too. It's like saying the Emperor has no clothes...or maybe a sheet.

I wished that Johnson would have stayed on message, but [Sleezebag] has been trying hard not to speak his name, so possibly it was a ploy for attention. Or maybe he figured he had to answer in order to proceed.  Gary explained  it this way - "Sometimes you just have to say it."

I haven't been following [Sleezebag] very closely on my fishing trip. After all, I was on vacation, and that was one of the things I was eager to get a break from. I got away from seeing him as a nationalist fascist - until one of his supporters actually referred to him as "THE LEADER" ( using all upper case throughout her post, because it's always persuasive).

But as readily as I would dismiss [Sleezebag]'s various remarks as rude, biased or bigoted, I have to admit that when I look at the big picture they are racist, or would be if they were backed by the power of the presidency.

For starters we've got this- -enables-racism]http://reason.com/archives/2016/03/16/donald-[Sleezebag]-enables-racism (http://reason.com/archives/2016/03/16/donald-[Sleezebag)
then there's his remarks about the native Americans  with a casino not looking Indian enough, suggesting that they were mafia, his remarks about Elizabeth Warren, his rapists and murders remark that cost him his tv show, his remarks about the judge presiding over his class action suit, his remarks at the rallies, about protestors, his remarks about head scarves, and Muslims. Some of it slanderous, some of it inciting violence.

-------------
My wife is a Johnson convert. This interview was the first she'd heard of his athletic prowess. She was impressed. His achievements  do underscore one thing- He's very willful, and not a quitter.
Or as he says- Expect the unexpected, when it happens you can curl up in a ball and cry, or you can keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Today I woke up pondering that [Sleezebag] might not be at all racist, and is simply a manipulative race baiter.

That doesn't make me feel any better.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2016, 06:36:53 PM
In a real way, that would be kinda worse.

-It's what I've been assuming.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 04, 2016, 10:32:17 PM
“We are not going to vote for the demon named Hillary because they are threatening us with the devil named [Sleezebag]. We will vote for a saint no matter what, and if that saint is not Bernie Sanders, then we will vote for the saint named Jill Stein,” said Bill Taylor, a Philadelphia activist who is helping to plan four days of demonstrations in support of Mr. Sanders at the Democratic convention this month.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 04, 2016, 11:02:01 PM
“We are not going to vote for the demon named Hillary because they are threatening us with the devil named T rump. We will vote for a saint no matter what, and if that saint is not Bernie Sanders, then we will vote for the saint named Jill Stein,” said Bill Taylor, a Philadelphia activist who is helping to plan four days of demonstrations in support of Mr. Sanders at the Democratic convention this month.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879)
As I keep saying -
half the people harbor such an irrational hatred they'd consider a dangerous circus clown or staying home rather than admit she's barely even evil on a lesser-of-two-evils choice
This is not a slam on the target of said irrational hatred, and it IS a slam.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 05, 2016, 01:13:57 AM
My state will go Democrat regardless. Every 4 years they find enough democrats to turnout for president and make a difference.  The rest of the time they can't be bothered.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 05, 2016, 03:08:22 AM
Today I woke up pondering that Drumpf might not be at all racist, and is simply a manipulative race baiter.

That doesn't make me feel any better.


I've always been under the impression that [Sleezebag] isn't sincerely xenophobic but merely opportunistically so. Like, he probably kinda sorta believes this stuff whenever he happens to be spouting it, but not vitriolically, and he gets that people eat it up.

“We are not going to vote for the demon named Hillary because they are threatening us with the devil named [Sleezebag]. We will vote for a saint no matter what, and if that saint is not Bernie Sanders, then we will vote for the saint named Jill Stein,” said Bill Taylor, a Philadelphia activist who is helping to plan four days of demonstrations in support of Mr. Sanders at the Democratic convention this month.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/jill-stein-the-green-partys-presumptive-presidential-nominee-makes-inroads-1467413879)


Sigh. If you're only going to vote for saints, you won't be voting.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 05, 2016, 05:18:11 PM
Okay. New Ad. Reminds me of the one he was using to try to secure the nomination. What do you think?

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjrIoTZzDxA#)


Better.  Too long. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 05, 2016, 05:35:53 PM
However, I'm willing to believe they were either not classified at the time or improperly marked as unclassified at the time just based on my experience.  I consider this dismissively, myself.  I very highly doubt anything will come of it, aside from maybe someone getting in trouble for improper marking. 



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi-email-comey.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi-email-comey.html?_r=0)

Quote
The inspector general, I. Charles McCullough III, said that the emails contained information that was classified at the time they were sent but were not marked classified, and that the information should never have been sent on an unclassified system.


I'm sure there will be conspiracy theories about how the whole thing was rigged. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 05, 2016, 06:07:29 PM
"government official could have faced administrative sanction for such conduct."

Not familiar with the jargon. What would administrative sanction mean in the context of the State Department?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 05, 2016, 06:20:33 PM
I should think not a darn thing with a political appointee at the top, short of dismissal.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 05, 2016, 07:55:15 PM
Quote
While not the focus of our investigation, we also developed evidence that the security culture of the State Department in general, and with respect to use of unclassified e-mail systems in particular, was generally lacking in the kind of care for classified information found elsewhere in the government.



Coupled with the info out of the state department months ago when they were classifying the emails:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/clinton-emails-routine-practice.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/clinton-emails-routine-practice.html)

Quote
those emails were classified because they contained what is called “foreign government information” — a vast category of information, gathered through conversations and meetings with foreign counterparts that are the fundamentals of diplomacy, but which had to be protected when the emails were released.

“Department officials of necessity routinely receive such information through unclassified channels,” said the letter, dated May 2 and written by the assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs, Julia Frifield.

“For example, diplomats engage in meetings with counterparts in open settings, have phone calls with foreign contacts over unsecure lines, and email with and about foreign counterparts via unclassified systems.”

The letter went on to say that using “foreign government information” in unclassified emails “does not amount to mishandling the information.”



Probably paints a fairly decent picture of what the info was, and why it was handled via unclassified means. 

Whether this changes in the future is a good question. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 05, 2016, 08:49:44 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-comey-no-charges-appropriate-000000895.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-comey-no-charges-appropriate-000000895.html)

FBI recommends no charges against Clinton, although she was "extremely careless" in handling of classified documents.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 02:24:25 AM
Bakrama appeared with Mrs. Clinton in Charlotte this afternoon - I didn't see but one segment of the local (Charlotte) evening news, but the entire time was live camera of Airforce One just sitting there on the runway.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 06, 2016, 06:47:09 AM
-nearly-tied-with-clinton]http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/286541-poll-[Sleezebag]-nearly-tied-with-clinton (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/286541-poll-[Sleezebag)


Ballot Box feed 

July 05, 2016, 03:54 pm
Poll: [Sleezebag] within 1 of Clinton nationally
By Mark Hensch

Donald [Sleezebag] is within a single point of Hillary Clinton nationwide, according to a new poll.

Clinton has 41 percent to [Sleezebag]'s 40 percent, a Morning Consult survey released Tuesday said.

Another 19 percent don’t know or have no opinion on who they back in a head-to-head match-up.
Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, keeps her slim lead when pollsters also ask about Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson.

In that scenario, Clinton has 38 percent support to 37 percent for [Sleezebag], the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, and 11 percent for Johnson.

Morning Consult conducted its poll of 2,001 registered voters via interviews from June 30 to July 4. It has a margin of error of 2 percentage points.

The last version of the same poll, from late June, showed Clinton at 44 percent and [Sleezebag] at 39 percent."

----------------------

Good to see Gary back in double digits.  I'm assuming the 3 point drop for Hillary since the last poll is thanks to Bill schmoozing with the Attorney General.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 12:20:50 PM
I assume that's margin of error stuff and nobody inclined to vote for her cares.

I don't trust that poll - something about those numbers smells wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 06, 2016, 04:05:47 PM
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/05/thatcher-reagan-blair-clinton-brexit-T rump-boris-johnson/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/05/thatcher-reagan-blair-clinton-brexit-T rump-boris-johnson/)

I can still see the unthinkable happening.


*happening, I think
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 04:31:02 PM
Can't help worrying.  That's rational, I think.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 06, 2016, 04:44:52 PM
I assume that's margin of error stuff and nobody inclined to vote for her cares.

I don't trust that poll - something about those numbers smells wrong.

Your instincts may be correct. Upon digging , it seems that they are an international consulting company, which originated in Chicago, but now headquarted in London and traded on the stock exchange there. When I went to the site, I found various articles of political news nature, congressional races, pending laws etc. I also found an ad that asked  me 5 questions about the election. Something like-

1) Will Hillary be the next President? (yes/no/unsure)
2) Who will you vote for ?  ( [Sleezebag]/Hillary/Bernie/ Other/unsure)
3) How do you think of yourself? ( Dem/Independent/GOP/other )
4) state/city?
5) e-mail
6) would you be willing to participate in future polls by e-mail?

YEs, I subscribed out of curiosity. I'm curious to find out if they're building a database, or polling directly. Or if the survey I took was unrelated to the company itself, and just an ad. I'll know more over time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 04:57:29 PM
I expect you'll find out a lot about the political leanings of their clients from the questions...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 06, 2016, 06:01:40 PM
I got an e-mail. It's corporate affiliations seem to be different than those of the website.
It seems to be considered safe for kids in ratings. It contained another 5 or 6 question survey. It also seems to be looking for personal information, such as sex, income, etc.  I can envision an avalanche of spam.

At the moment I decided to ignore the e-mail, and see what other questions future e-mails may bring.

I'm thinking that the survey is from an unrelated advertiser, and has no bearing on the polls from Morning Consult. Even so, I intend to read the surveys in my inbox and compare with future polls from Morning Consult, to be sure.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 06:16:48 PM
Questions tell a lot - there's a science to polling, I don't have to tell you, and some polls are simply inept, others cooked by design.  There are Liars, Liars who will go to the Devil, The Pig, and then there's Pollsters - absolutely true numbers can be the very best liars.

-Nate Silver, on the other hand, I trust.  He's just a math/politics nerd digging for truth - possibly also to found the First Foundation (I hope Lori sees that joke).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 06, 2016, 06:32:23 PM
I believe Nate Silver and 538, just as I believed Zogby before him.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 06, 2016, 11:25:34 PM
AEC Admit They've Lost Count And Will Have To Start Again

http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2016/07/04/aec-admit-theyve-lost-count-and-will-have-start-again (http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2016/07/04/aec-admit-theyve-lost-count-and-will-have-start-again)

Quote
The Australian Electoral Commission have released a statement admitting that they have been forced to start the count again, after getting distracted by an interesting looking bird.

 

A spokesperson for the AEC told The Backburner that, despite getting very clearly close to finalising the vote count on Sunday evening, they briefly lost track of what they were doing when a bird flew into the room and completely forgot where they were up to.

 

“Although none of us are to blame for the presence of the bird, we will be the first to admit that keeping a strictly mental tally of the ten million odd votes and their respective preferences was a bit foolish and maybe emblematic of some hubris on our part.

 

“In future we will try and ensure a more bird-proof system is implemented than our current system of counting them by hand and then telling Dave what number we’re up to - it turns out the risk of Dave seeing a bird he did not anticipate and losing that number completely is too high to risk an entire federal election on it.”

 

The AEC anticipates that the recount should be done by the end of this week, depending on how reliable Dave continues to be at remembering the vote count.

 

“We’ve closed all the windows in the office so there’s no chance that bird will get in this time, which we believe should eliminate some of the risks, although Dave just got broken up with yesterday so his mind isn’t exactly on the job.

 

“We’re working to ensure that the final count is delivered as soon as possible, it is the solemn duty of the AEC to deliver the results within the very short time frame that the Australian public will remain interested in this.”

 

Some voters have expressed impatience at the lack of a result and vowed to remain interested in the election for at least another two days:


“It’s absolutely crucial that we know who will be deciding the outcome of the next 3 years of Australian politics, there is nothing more important and I will keep an incredibly keen eye on this until I inevitably get bored of it in a day or so.”


;)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 06, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
BTW, I polled the one Western Aussie I know of, and he voted Coalition lower house, ALA upper - he's a big Pentecostal Christian.  -No punchline, it being true.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 07, 2016, 02:09:52 AM
ALA (Australian Liberty Alliance) is one of those extreme right wing type of parties which promotes extreme Nationalism, isolationism and Islamic/Asian Xenophobia and climate change denial.

In many circles in Australia, your friend would be classified as a racist, a climate change denier and a massive [poop]-stain on Australia.  It's also people who voted like him (for extremist parties) that caused the unworkable Upper House that we had (and look like getting again).  I suspect your friend would secretly support T rump.

No punchline, it being true.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 07, 2016, 02:17:53 AM
Pentecostal - he's a lovely fellow who would no doubt be horrified that you think that and really believe you're wrong.  I dunno about climate change, but he's certainly very into denial...

-To his credit, he does not, in fact, think much of the Pig.  But he was telling me about some evil election fraud shenanigans Labor allegedly pulled - true for all I know, but if he was a yank and a few names were changed, it would set off all sorts of right-wing fantasy bullcrap alarms.

Kids; you can tell 'em anything until you can't tell them anything for about ten years until life teaches them...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 07, 2016, 04:46:25 AM
Pentecostal - he's a lovely fellow who would no doubt be horrified that you think that and really believe you're wrong.  I dunno about climate change, but he's certainly very into denial...

-To his credit, he does not, in fact, think much of the Pig.  But he was telling me about some evil election fraud shenanigans Labor allegedly pulled - true for all I know, but if he was a yank and a few names were changed, it would set off all sorts of right-wing fantasy bullcrap alarms.

Kids; you can tell 'em anything until you can't tell them anything for about ten years until life teaches them...


It's not just me that thinks that about the ALA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/australian-liberty-alliance-says-members-vilified/7242778 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/australian-liberty-alliance-says-members-vilified/7242778)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-liberty-alliance-the-antiislam-donald-trumpstyle-party-claims-major-growth-20160406-go08lq.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-liberty-alliance-the-antiislam-donald-trumpstyle-party-claims-major-growth-20160406-go08lq.html)
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/angry-anderson-joins-antiislam-party-to-chase-a-senate-seat-at-the-federal-election/news-story/cf23fd04d6e709c99d5feaeacb818f11 (http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/angry-anderson-joins-antiislam-party-to-chase-a-senate-seat-at-the-federal-election/news-story/cf23fd04d6e709c99d5feaeacb818f11)

The three main news outlets (one left, one centre and one right).

The ALA was launched by Geert Wilders last year.  Says it all.

EDIT:
About the Labor fraud thing he spoke of.......

Okay, they did some really dodgy campaigning.  They claimed that the Coalition was going to privatise Medicare (our universal healthcare system).  Yes, that is not strictly true.  A budgetary committee did recommend last year to privatise certain parts of Medicare, such as the administration side to provide savings and efficiency.  But never has the entire privatisation of Medicare been on the cards.

Labor did play an entire scare campaign on that.  But the Coalition did not come out strongly opposed to smash the scare campaign down.  So their fault too.  In the end, Coalition has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite on the huge items.  So it's pretty easy to draw a similarity between previous things and Medicare.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 07, 2016, 05:48:51 AM
Decided to post this one from the Chicago Tribune Editorial Board.

-alternatives-stein-johnson-edit-0707-20160706-story.html]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-clinton-[Sleezebag]-alternatives-stein-johnson-edit-0707-20160706-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-clinton-[Sleezebag)

Editorial: Can't vote for [Sleezebag] or Clinton? You have 2 legitimate alternatives

Editorial Board

July 6, 2016, 1:00 PM



In the best of all possible worlds, the U.S. presidential election would feature a pair of candidates who don't engage in juvenile insults or racially charged rhetoric, don't provoke the Federal Bureau of Investigation to offer proof of serial dishonesty and have no history of bankruptcy or complicity in White House scandals. Ideally, these two nominees would distinguish themselves with their integrity, coherent policy views and ability to address important issues in fresh, substantive and truthful ways.

Millions of Americans have been queasy contemplating the choice of Hillary Clinton and Donald [Sleezebag]. You may think voters are never happy with their options — was anyone thrilled by John Kerry vs. George W. Bush in 2004? — but this year is notably worse than the norm. The sorry arc of [Sleezebag]'s bloviation, and now the FBI's detailed demolition of Clinton's repeated untruths about her recklessness with classified U.S. information, only compound the plight of many American voters.

"Negative views of Mrs. Clinton are at least 12 percentage points higher than those of any of the four Democratic nominees since 1992," reported The Wall Street Journal about recent poll results. "Negative views of Mr. [Sleezebag] are at least 14 points worse than those of any of the last five GOP nominees." That was before FBI Director James Comey called Clinton's behavior "extremely careless" and [Sleezebag] offered peculiar praise to Saddam Hussein as a prolific slayer of terrorists. ([Sleezebag] didn't mention that Hussein also was adept at slaying his own people.)

In short, our normally polarized politics are more polarized than ever. Only 1 in 6 white males has a positive opinion of Clinton, while only 1 in 10 African-Americans looked favorably on [Sleezebag]. Much of the support each candidate has is really withering contempt for the other.

Well, American voter, things are not as bad as you may think. You have not one respectable alternative to these candidates but two. They are Gary Johnson, nominated in June by the Libertarian Party, and Jill Stein, who is expected to be chosen at the Green Party national convention next month. Thanks partly to the major party nominees, these two (who won the same nominations four years ago) are gaining the kind of attention that minor party candidates rarely get. Though neither is likely to be on the ballot in all 50 states, they will be options for the vast majority of voters.

RealClearPolitics reports that in recent polls featuring all four candidates, Johnson averages 7 percent of the national vote and Stein 4 percent. Those are impressive numbers, given that in 2012, neither broke the 1 percent threshold. It's not hard to imagine them rising this fall as [Sleezebag] and Clinton savage each other's records.

Stein, a Massachusetts physician and native of Highland Park, offers herself as the logical choice for supporters of Bernie Sanders, who shares her progressive views on many issues — single-payer
health insurance, green energy, raising taxes, campaign finance regulation, military intervention abroad and more. Back in April, she went so far as to invite the Vermont senator to work with the Green Party to "ensure the revolution for people, planet and peace will prevail."

Republicans dismayed that [Sleezebag] wouldn't promote free trade, cut federal spending, reform immigration or curb entitlements will be cheered by Johnson's platform. A former two-term Republican governor of New Mexico, he compiled a record to back up his promises. With a Democratic legislature, the conservative National Review raved, "Johnson's main impact was in vetoing an astonishing 739 bills over his eight years in office."

The existing two-party system has been the mainstay of American politics for a century and a half. But the discontent felt this year among Democrats as well as Republicans suggests there is an opportunity for the Greens and the Libertarians to establish themselves in the national consciousness in a lasting way.

Can either win? Not this time. But that's no reason Americans disgusted with the major party choices have to settle on either. It's not "wasting your vote," as the old bromide says, to cast a ballot for a long-shot candidate because he or she offers something valuable that mainstream candidates don't. Attracting voters is how small parties get bigger.

A strong showing by Stein, Johnson or both might not transform America's political landscape. But it could push a reassessment of old policies that have acquired immunity from reform. It could put provocative new ideas on the national agenda.

It also could force the major parties, which have disappointed voters so badly this year, to do better in 2020 and beyond. If so, Democrats and Republicans might thank Stein and Johnson for running.

-----------------------------------------

Okay, a couple of things.
1) Dr. Jill Stein is the most successful woman presidential candidate in American history. ( Hillary has never stood for a general presidential election. )

2) While Gary Johnson did not technically get 1% of the vote in 2012, he did get at least 0.99% and since the vote is usually expressed as rounded to the nearest % or tenth of one, saying he didn't get 1 % is misleading, and usually an indicator of bias.

3) As for being on the ballot in all 50 states, Johnson was on 48 last time. I think the Greens were on 20 - 30.  Both are striving for 50 this time. But at the same time, the establishment realizes what's at stake, and is being a pain in the butt about it. Ohio passed a law which de-certified the Libertarians, but they still expect to get Johnson on the ballot as an independent. PA tried to change the rules, but they have a pending court case on the issue, and 10s of thousands of signatures. It should happen one way or another. Illinois is likewise being obstinate, demanding 25,000 signatures, but The Libertarians have 50,000 ready for submission there, just for insurance.  In short, the Libertarians are largely up to the challenge, but ClinTrump is making them pay for it, and their pockets aren't deep. The Greens already missed one deadline. Chances are they will be at least 6 states short. Their only hope is in the courts.

Can they win? Seeing as how the major parties haven't even confirmed their nominees as yet, and the ballots aren't printed, and early voting hasn't begun, nobody has been mathematically eliminated.

Both Stein and Johnson filed a lawsuit a long time ago about the standards for inclusion in the debate. If that comes through, the Greens could qualify.

I have a feeling that Stein, who is smarter and prettier than Bernie, would make Hillary sweat in a debate. I would dearly love to see Gary, the New Mexico construction guy debate the Wall with [Sleezebag]. Where are you going to get the water for the concrete in the desert? Which side of the Rio Grande are we going to seal off, or are we going to build it mid river?

Well, everything matters. Getting into the debates, having a good performance, and making it a 3 or 4 way race lowers the threshold, and kicks the election into the House, where I frankly think that Johnson's chances are best, and Stein's are the worst, of the four. Particularly since [Sleezebag] university goes to court after the election. But the house only considers the top 3 who have won at least one state.

While established parties will get convention bumps, I think that their general trend will be downwards as they go negative against each other, and the electorate realizes that they are both right about the other's disqualifications for the office. Plus, I'm sure [Sleezebag] can find more dictators to praise, and more Clinton scandals to talk about. Or Putin might release stolen e-mails. The trouble with that is that one candidate could potentially implode between now and November, and allow the other to reach 270.

In other words, I still think that this year, anything could happen. At the very least something that
never happened before will- We'll elect a woman, a 3rd party, or somebody with no elected government or military experience.













Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 12:14:17 AM
Pentecostal - he's a lovely fellow who would no doubt be horrified that you think that and really believe you're wrong.  I dunno about climate change, but he's certainly very into denial...

-To his credit, he does not, in fact, think much of the Pig.  But he was telling me about some evil election fraud shenanigans Labor allegedly pulled - true for all I know, but if he was a yank and a few names were changed, it would set off all sorts of right-wing fantasy bullcrap alarms.

Kids; you can tell 'em anything until you can't tell them anything for about ten years until life teaches them...


It's not just me that thinks that about the ALA.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/australian-liberty-alliance-says-members-vilified/7242778 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-13/australian-liberty-alliance-says-members-vilified/7242778)
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-liberty-alliance-the-antiislam-donald-trumpstyle-party-claims-major-growth-20160406-go08lq.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-liberty-alliance-the-antiislam-donald-trumpstyle-party-claims-major-growth-20160406-go08lq.html)
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/angry-anderson-joins-antiislam-party-to-chase-a-senate-seat-at-the-federal-election/news-story/cf23fd04d6e709c99d5feaeacb818f11 (http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/angry-anderson-joins-antiislam-party-to-chase-a-senate-seat-at-the-federal-election/news-story/cf23fd04d6e709c99d5feaeacb818f11)

The three main news outlets (one left, one centre and one right).

The ALA was launched by Geert Wilders last year.  Says it all.

EDIT:
About the Labor fraud thing he spoke of.......

Okay, they did some really dodgy campaigning.  They claimed that the Coalition was going to privatise Medicare (our universal healthcare system).  Yes, that is not strictly true.  A budgetary committee did recommend last year to privatise certain parts of Medicare, such as the administration side to provide savings and efficiency.  But never has the entire privatisation of Medicare been on the cards.

Labor did play an entire scare campaign on that.  But the Coalition did not come out strongly opposed to smash the scare campaign down.  So their fault too.  In the end, Coalition has a history of saying one thing and doing the opposite on the huge items.  So it's pretty easy to draw a similarity between previous things and Medicare.
Oh, I believed you to begin with - but I tend to doubt he's racist himself, just foolishly supporting racists and you couldn't tell him that.  Church people vote hate politics all the time because they're suckers in a sucker culture that's been gulled by hateful politicians, not in my experience, because they're more hateful, au contraire.  -Though they certainly have their little bigotries, some of which are actually part of their religion, many they only think are...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 08, 2016, 08:10:05 AM
Recent Gleanings-

It's interesting to read the slants from various sources. In the beginning it was a lot of "Who is he?" "Who does he hurt the most?" " Is he right or left?"

Right Wing publications such as The Washington Times denounced him to begin with when they figured he was taking votes from [Sleezebag]. Now they seem to be supporting him, so they must have decided that the same polls are 1% closer with Johnson factored in.

Some of the Left leaning publications such as Salon seemed set against him , too.

Of course there were Libertarian blogs, etc. that said Johnson wasn't Libertarian enough.

----------------

Nate Silver thinks Johnson should be included in the polls as a third option now.

--------=-----

Apparently there will be a challenge to [Sleezebag] at the GOP. ( Contested Convention #2, Following in the footsteps of the Libertarians) It won't work, but it will weaken him.

------------------------

"The State Department will now focus on whether current employees involved in handling or sending and receiving Clinton's emails should get disciplinary action, which could range from a reprimand to losing their security clearance. Former employees found to be mishandling classified information could also have notes put in their file that could also have consequences if they seek future employment with the government and need security clearance."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/politics/state-department-reopens-probe-into-clinton-emails/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/politics/state-department-reopens-probe-into-clinton-emails/index.html)

-------------------

Bernie will finally endorse Hillary next week, so no contested convention for the Democrats.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 12:19:19 PM
On that last - I wonder what they had to offer him to get that, if true.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 08, 2016, 05:16:14 PM
On that last - I wonder what they had to offer him to get that, if true.


It doesn't say.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0)

It could be the Trans Pacific Partnership. Or maybe he figured he's got as much as he's going to get, and he only hurts Hillary by dragging his feet while she's in a rough patch, and he despises [Sleezebag]. Or maybe it's just about how he wants to be remembered.

He didn't take my advice of going Green.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 06:09:15 PM
He could drop back independent, but I predict medium-high confidence that he'll stay and make at least cursory efforts to try to work up a movement in the Democratic Party - that was the whole point the entire time, after all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 08, 2016, 06:43:35 PM
So what happens if there's still a third runner? Does he or she "take away" votes from one of the main contenders?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 07:10:20 PM
Ross Perot made Bill Clinton president, the non-trivial percent of the vote he drew coming overwhelmingly from the right-fringe and being greater than the margin of victory.  There are people who blame Ralf Nader for 2000 and the Cheney Bund being appointed, with the very good reason of that one being closer, especially in Florida, than the handful of votes he syphoned off the left.

How many of the know-nothing louts who fell for Perot's noise would have bothered to even turn out for the real George Bush, who the righties roundly cursed for years as a moderate with some reason?  How many hippy freaks would have let go their trees to vote for Al. freakin'. Gore. had Nader not been an option?  Nobody knows.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
But what I sense you're actually ask:  Johnson's a right-Libertarian, as they usually are, and if the Pig had a real chance, the Libertarians would be a threat as spoilers - but when the right is stuck with a loathsome real estate hustler for whom their respect and regard makes Mitt Romney last time look like JesusReagan by comparison, right now is the time to chuck it and plan longer than November...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 08, 2016, 07:19:55 PM
Well, actually I was worried that when the time comes, Bernie doesn't endorse Hillary and this will cost her the election. I mean, I love the guy, I really do and he would be my first go-to option, but when the chips are down, I think he should know better than improve the pig's odds.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on July 08, 2016, 07:26:01 PM
But if Johnson stays in the race and throws a wrench in the pig's campaign, obviously that's some great news to hear on this fine Friday.

I don't know if you guys fully see it, but what is at stake in this election is partly the future of the entire Western block, and in the darkest scenario, Eastern European countries can say goodbye to the NATO protection and roll back to the Kremlin's shadow. The pig already said he's gonna be BFF with his Russian porcine counterpart. Which is why I was asking about the full extent of POTUS' impact on your foreign policy.

Of course, you'd be screwed as well, too. But it definitely won't stop at the water this time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on July 08, 2016, 07:46:52 PM
I have (once again) registered to vote. My disdain for the main candidates has grown to a level greater than that of my feelings of disenfranchisement.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 08, 2016, 09:14:38 PM
for a long time, My Ex and I were the only two Libertarians in the city of Winter Park.

If there is a SuperPAC that is supporting Johnson they need to pay for polls that include him in the question.  When you need that 15% poll figure to get into the debates, you first need to be able to possibly get that figure firstwise...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 08, 2016, 09:27:52 PM
We have a Govt. After last weeks election we now how the following situation.

The next Australian Govt will be a Coalition minority supported by 3 Independents to get them across the line; or a Coalition majority of 76 seats.

As final postal and overseas votes are counted the majority looks likely.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 08, 2016, 10:10:24 PM
for a long time, My Ex and I were the only two Libertarians in the city of Winter Park.

If there is a SuperPAC that is supporting Johnson they need to pay for polls that include him in the question.  When you need that 15% poll figure to get into the debates, you first need to be able to possibly get that figure firstwise...

Hi E_T , how have you been?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 08, 2016, 10:50:19 PM
But if Johnson stays in the race and throws a wrench in the pig's campaign, obviously that's some great news to hear on this fine Friday.

I don't know if you guys fully see it, but what is at stake in this election is partly the future of the entire Western block, and in the darkest scenario, Eastern European countries can say goodbye to the NATO protection and roll back to the Kremlin's shadow. The pig already said he's gonna be BFF with his Russian porcine counterpart. Which is why I was asking about the full extent of POTUS' impact on your foreign policy.

Of course, you'd be screwed as well, too. But it definitely won't stop at the water this time.

American presidential elections are about peace and prosperity. When the subject of foreign policy comes up- it's about border security, trade, and terrorism. In terms hot spots, Mexico, China, North Korea, and the Middle East are on the public radar.

Johnson seems to take 1% more away from Hillary than [Sleezebag] in some polls. Other times he's neutral.  Jill Stein of the Green Party is the one who would eat into Hillary's supporters. She gets about half the % of Johnson in a 4 way poll.

But the most reliable, unbiased  and up to date information on the outcome of the US election is from data analyst Nate Silver. If you want to know the likelihood of a [Sleezebag] victory, bookmark this website.
I'm sure Buncle would agree.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=2016-election



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 08, 2016, 10:57:43 PM
I think he's a lot more interested in predicting the true future than the one he might wish for.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 09, 2016, 07:19:56 PM
-slashes-tv-appearances-as-advisers-clash-over-controlling-his-message.html]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/08/[Sleezebag]-slashes-tv-appearances-as-advisers-clash-over-controlling-his-message.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/08/[Sleezebag)

[Sleezebag] slashes TV appearances as advisers clash over controlling his message
By  Howard Kurtz 
 ·Published July 08, 2016

Donald [Sleezebag], in a sharp shift in strategy, is now refusing to appear on many television outlets, and top advisers who want to limit his exposure are no longer notifying him of every interview request.

According to sources familiar with the campaign, one faction is worried that the constant rounds of interviews entail too much risk of the candidate making mistakes or fanning minor controversies, even though his mastery at driving the media agenda helped power his Republican primary victory.

A series of clashes over these and other tactical questions has caused [Sleezebag] himself to openly question who is running his campaign, the sources say. And he has expressed anger when he believes his orders aren’t being followed.

On the media front, [Sleezebag] is no longer appearing on CNN or MSNBC. He is staying off the Sunday talk shows. Nearly all his national television interviews since June 1 have been with Fox News.

This more restrictive approach, combined with recent incidents in which some aides have acted contrary to [Sleezebag]’s wishes, suggests a power shift as his children and especially his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, play an increasingly influential role.

[Sleezebag], who has resumed his full-throated denunciations of the media—such as calling CNN the Clinton News Network—personally vetted every TV invitation for most of the campaign. Now the staff is weeding out many requests without consulting him, the sources say, which could either be viewed as a mark of professionalization or an attempt to restrain [Sleezebag] from being [Sleezebag].

Those in the caution camp want to avoid any repetition of [Sleezebag]’s March sitdown with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, when he stumbled in suggesting that women should be punished for abortions. They do not share the candidate’s boundless confidence in taking on all media adversaries.

Several weeks ago, high-level staffers concluded at a meeting that the boss should be limited to no more than three interviews a week, print reporters included. He wound up meeting that quota in just half a day. But aides now vet whether certain reporters can ride on his plane, which used to be a snap decision by [Sleezebag].

Even CNN President Jeff Zucker, who worked with [Sleezebag] at “The Apprentice” when he ran NBC, is said to no longer have unfettered access to the billionaire.

[Sleezebag]’s last interview with CNN was a phone call to the morning show “New Day” on June 13.

[Sleezebag]’s last interview with MSNBC was on May 20, a phoner to “Morning Joe.” Once a regular on the show, [Sleezebag] has repeatedly slammed Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski for their harsh criticism of him, telling me that the former GOP congressman “went totally rogue” and “went essentially to the Democrats’ side.”

Since June 1, [Sleezebag] has appeared 18 times on Fox News Channel and twice on Fox Business Network, undoubtedly viewing them as friendlier terrain. These include multiple interviews with Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and “Fox & Friends.”

[Sleezebag] has ripped Fox in the past, famously boycotting an Iowa debate because Megyn Kelly was one of the moderators. At a rally Wednesday night, [Sleezebag] said, “Fox is tough on me but they are fair. And MSNBC, nobody watches it so I don’t care.”

[Sleezebag] hasn’t been on a network morning show since late June. He also did a June 23 sitdown with NBC anchor Lester Holt, and network reporters have occasionally pulled him aside for a few questions on the trail.

Yet even while effectively boycotting much of the television establishment, [Sleezebag] remains far more accessible to journalists than Hillary Clinton, who has not held a news conference this year.

When veteran Beltway strategist Paul Manafort took over as campaign chairman, he sought to limit [Sleezebag]’s Sunday morning exposure, which sometimes included appearances on three or four of the shows. [Sleezebag]’s last interview on “Fox News Sunday” was April 3, on ABC’s “This Week” May 8, and on CNN’s “State of the Union” June 5. [Sleezebag] hasn’t appeared since June 19 on “Face the Nation” or “Meet the Press.”

At the Wednesday rally in Ohio, [Sleezebag] ripped into the man he called “Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd”—a moniker he had long put aside—and proclaimed that he had boosted the ratings of “Meet the Press,” only to be hit with unfair coverage. “These are disloyal people,” he said. Loyalty, of course, is not in the journalistic job description.

The Republican nominee also complained about CNN’s coverage of the so-called Star of David tweet, which critics said used an anti-Semitic image against Clinton, a view vehemently denied by [Sleezebag]. He called CNN “dishonest as hell” and added, “These people are sick.”

But the tweet controversy also underscored the sometimes chaotic nature of the campaign. [Sleezebag] had wanted the Twitter message to remain and is said to be furious when his staff deleted it without telling him. “You shouldn’t have taken it down,’” he said. “You know, they took the star down. I said, ‘Too bad, you should’ve left it up.’”

[Sleezebag]’s defense of the contested tweet breathed new life into a negative story that had been fading after several days, diverting attention from the public scolding that FBI Director James Comey gave Hillary Clinton for mishandling classified information, even as he declined to pursue criminal charges.

That is the obvious downside of [Sleezebag]’s scattershot approach. But he chafes at having to read scripted addresses and keeps liberating himself with stream-of-consciousness speeches, feeding off the energy of the crowds. Advisers who favor this approach say it’s more important for [Sleezebag] to enjoy himself on the trail, even at the cost of blurring his message.

Manafort is still firmly in charge of the campaign’s direction, relationship with party power brokers and the Cleveland convention. But Kushner, who is married to Ivanka [Sleezebag] and owns the New York Observer, is increasingly handling the day-to-day mechanics, constantly talking to the candidate, despite his lack of political experience.

While [Sleezebag] is avoiding numerous television outlets, he still works the phone lines, and one source said he recently had a private call with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, a frequent critic.

Some advisers believe the reduced media schedule is largely a function of greater general-election demands on [Sleezebag]’s time, from courting donors to meeting with possible running mates. Some in his inner circle have told him that he needs to reach beyond cable’s modest audiences and leave more of the televised combat to spokeswoman Katrina Pierson.

Others say it doesn’t matter if [Sleezebag] bypasses interviews on CNN and MSNBC as long as those networks, along with Fox, keep carrying extended portions of his evening rallies, with the added benefit that he doesn’t have to answer questions.

[Sleezebag] has been in constant skirmishes with the press since he launched his campaign, but his sharper rhetoric these days reflects a view that the media are trying to “assassinate his character,” as one member of his team put it. And that helps explain why the man who once blitzed the airwaves round the clock is now carefully picking his spots.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 09, 2016, 09:53:52 PM
Gleanings-

There was an open letter from Wharton students and graduates saying [Sleezebag] doesn't represent us. There was a student group "Penn for [Sleezebag]", but they disbanded after his calls to block Muslims from entering the country.

-----------

Hillary has adopted more of Bernie's language with regard to healthcare in a speech, and the platform committee has included "baseball, mom and apple pie" language in the platform with regard to trade deals, stopping short of embarrassing Obama with an anti TPP stance, but there is talk of never bringing it to a vote. So I guess this is the price of the Sanders endorsement worked out by their campaign managers.

-----------

[Sleezebag] is actually considering a couple of retired general as VPs. Well, I wouldn't be too keen on choosing between Christie, Newt and what's-his-name, either.  I can see why the idea appeals to him. He's an authority kind of guy, he values loyalty, and people who say "Yes Mister [Sleezebag]!" Thing is, it plays into the hands of people who say The Leader is a fascist, and those who say The Leader isn't a real Republican, because Gen. Flynn is a Democrat.

----------------

Hillary responded to the FBI pronouncements, talking about the others she interacted with, saying she believes that they believed they weren't sending or receiving classified documents. Maybe it's an attempt to shield them from losing their security clearances now that the State Department is resuming it's investigation in the wake of the FBI investigation, or maybe it's an attempt to spread the blame. She pointed out that the FBI agrees that most of the e-mails weren't classified at the time, and insisted that she hadn't been hacked.

I continue to wonder if Putin won't leak some hacked e-mails at some point, just to embarrass her.

-----------------------------------

Johnson and Weld had an interview with the Washington Post editorial board when they were in town for the National Press Club Luncheon, and to visit The Cato Institute. The transcript, I thought was better than the article which resulted from it. Entitled " Johnson an honest but defective candidate" which  ( in my informed and biased opinion ) either misunderstood or misrepresented their answers to several questions. I think part of that is on Johnson for not being polished, and part of that is the local paper for the nation's largest mill town doesn't share his individualistic  as opposed to collectivist viewpoint. They are used to politicians proposing programs to solve all problems. Some of those things deserve their own posts and threads.

Well, I've said before that the Washington Post is one of the last bastions of actual journalism, and I stand by that. What will be interesting and revealing is how the editorial board handles Jill Stein. Will they ignore her? Will they applaud her for sharing some of Hillary's views? Will they ridicule her as a spoiler?

-------------------

Jill Stein is holding the door open for Bernie Sanders and made another attempt to lure him into the Green Party barn. I think it's too late. The Democrats made their concessions, and if Bernie pulled the football away before Hillary can kick it, he will be marginalized in the Senate, and he won't win the Oval office, because he won't win enough states to get to 270 as a Green, and he won't win any elections in the congress.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 09, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
You respect the Post, huh?  -I would have sorta expected you to find it too liberal...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 10, 2016, 01:17:39 AM
You respect the Post, huh?  -I would have sorta expected you to find it too liberal...

I had a long post, but lost my connection to the site and couldn't reach it by new windows.

Let's see.... Well they aren't Liberal in the classical sense of the word, only in the Progressive sense of the term.

This reminds me of the time you asked if I was irritated or whatever about Bernie being honest and sincere. The answer is no, I prefer all politicians to be sincere, and  I prefer all news outlets to exercise journalism.

Chris Mathews at MSNBC, and the Editorial board at the Washington Post, both the people and the organizations have a leftie bias, but they, like The Atlantic Magazine and the PBS series Frontline, are among the last bastions of journalism in a post-journalism world.

I can respect a politician for being wrong when they are sincere, and a journalist for exposing the truth, although they are biased. In both cases it's about doing your duty regardless of limitations.

It's the reporters who haven't done their homework, who allow people to duck their questions, that don't deliver the truth that irritate me the most.

Likewise it's the politicians that don't sincerely have principles that can't be trusted with power. If you don't know where they stand, you don't know who they'll throw under the bus next. They have no moral authority to change the laws for everybody's lives if they don't believe in what they are doing. If you do know where they stand, then you know when you can work together with them.


I guess that explains my Hillary hatred. I've dealt with sincere politicians and some shifty-shady ones. Unqualified ones as well. { Insert the "It's the 95% that give the rest a bad name" joke here } Actually, most are sincere and working tirelessly for token pay or no pay at all in local government. The unqualified ones are concentrated in the state legislatures, and the ones in the governor's mansions and the federal government are the ones you've heard tell of for better or worse.

So while I'm on a general rant, I'm going to quote Gary Johnson's "7 Principles of Good Government"

#1) Become reality based.
#2) Always be honest and tell the truth.
#3) Always do what's right and fair.
#4) Determine the goal and set a plan for reaching it.
#5) Make sure everyone who should know your goal, does.
#6) Acknowledge mistakes immediately.
#7) Love what you're doing; if you don't, find something else to do.

My kind of politician.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 10, 2016, 01:49:11 AM
You make a persuasive case.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 10, 2016, 02:29:27 AM
Thanks. It was sincere.
Here's an opinion piece from The Post's conservative voice-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/07/08/ten-mistakes-reince-priebus-made/#comments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/07/08/ten-mistakes-reince-priebus-made/#comments)

Ten mistakes Reince Priebus made
 By Jennifer Rubin July 8

When the postmortem on the GOP 2016 presidential race is conducted there will be plenty of blame to go around. Candidates ran shoddy races, attacking one another and hanging around far too long. Voters gave way to anger, nihilism and rank prejudice. Elected leaders were reticent to speak up  But it was Chairman Reince Priebus who will long be remembered for his series of spectacular errors. To review:

1. Priebus never understood that [Sleezebag] had neither the means nor the inclination to run as a third candidate. Spend his own money?! Priebus put the entire party at [Sleezebag]’s mercy by creating a suicide pact (the pledge) with [Sleezebag]. Like the JCPOA, once the pledge was in place it was vital to keep it there. Priebus then began a dangerous approach in which appeasement, rationalization and out-and-out water-carrying were the rule.

2. Rather than going on bended knee to [Sleezebag] to extract the pledge, Priebus should have used leverage (free debate time, access to RNC fundraising, rhetorical support and defense from the RNC) to demand [Sleezebag] cease attacks on fellow Republicans, improve his tone and show some understanding of both policy and political mechanics. If Al Gore had shown up to run in the GOP race would Priebus have sat idly by? And yet that’s essentially what he did when a man who had no particular loyalty to the party moved in for a hostile takeover.

3. Pledges for any candidate were a bad idea. Kevin Williamson wrote recently: “The Republicans who promised to support the nominee no matter who made an error in judgment. That’s forgivable. But now it is time to admit the error, step up, and do the right thing.” Explicitly putting partisan loyalty over conscience, conservative principles and reciprocal loyalty from the candidate was another grave error from Priebus.

4. Using national polling — essentially name recognition — to determine the debate lineup was a gross error, giving [Sleezebag] every incentive to spend his time on TV and presenting him, literally, with center stage. Likewise, the undercard debate should have ended much sooner.

5. Priebus should have spoken out loud and clear when [Sleezebag] slurred Mexicans, POWs, women, and Muslims. Priebus utterly failed to act as the guardian of the party’s values.

6. The field of debate participants should have narrowed faster and more dramatically, giving candidates time to attack [Sleezebag] and forcing [Sleezebag] to come up with cogent answers.

7. Priebus immediately sided with [Sleezebag] in a battle with delegates who may want to oust him. That’s not Priebus’s role. He is a servant of the party and of the elected delegates. Whatever rules they decide upon he must implement in good faith.
8.  Priebus repeatedly minimized and denigrated Republicans unhappy with [Sleezebag], who won only a plurality of the votes. If Priebus works for the party he should at least show respect and listen to the majority of Republicans who did not vote for [Sleezebag] and now don’t want him as the nominee. Priebus, once again, seemed to think he worked for [Sleezebag], not the GOP.

9. Priebus should have written into the party’s fundraising agreement with [Sleezebag] an obligation for the billionaire (who showed no inclination to raise much money in the primary) to raise a reasonable amount of money (a few hundred million dollars at least) and if not, cut a check to the RNC to fund the campaign. With no history of fundraising and notoriously opaque finances [Sleezebag] was allowed to snooker Priebus, leaving the GOP with a fraction of the money Clinton will have.

10. Like every other candidate in the last 40 years [Sleezebag] should have been required to release his tax returns. If he refused, he should have been excluded from the debates, and eventually from the convention. [Sleezebag] was never required to give up information that was vital to voters’ decision-making. Even worse, to this day [Sleezebag] is still involved intimately in his business ventures. That’s a horrible conflict of interest.

There are probably a few missteps I am forgetting. Priebus’s spinelessness may well result in an irretrievably divided party, not to mention a humiliating loss in a critical, entirely winnable election. Priebus’s successor had better learn some lessons from 2016. He or she might also consider using super delegates. It turns out party grownups are needed. This cycle they’ve been AWOL.


===============================

Tax returns should be a pre-condition to debate participation.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 11, 2016, 06:36:58 AM
Here's a lengthy interview which covers some new topics.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gary-johnson-ill-cut-your-taxes/article/2595868 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gary-johnson-ill-cut-your-taxes/article/2595868)

Gary Johnson: I'll cut your taxes
By Gabby Morrongiello, Sean Higgins • 7/10/16 12:01 AM

 


Gary Johnson, the former Republican governor of New Mexico, is the Libertarian Party's 2016 presidential candidate and poised to make an impact in the national election. When he is included in four-way polls with Donald [Sleezebag] and Hillary Clinton, he averages 7 points, according to RealClearPolitics.
 
Johnson is trying to build on his momentum by filling the void for a free-market candidate in this election, now that [Sleezebag] and Clinton have embraced anti-trade economic populism. Johnson laid out his agenda in an interview with the Washington Examiner.
 
Washington Examiner: This is an unusual election cycle in which we have two major party candidates who are flatly running against trade. Can you give us your thoughts? The Libertarian Party is understood to be free trade. Do you think it should be complete and unfettered?
 
Johnson: I do think it should be complete and unfettered. Free markets, I think that's how we dominate the world. But that said, I'm looking to get elected president of the United States. If I get elected president of the United States, if legislation passes that makes trade better, count on my signature.

Examiner: So let's start with Trade Promotion Authority. On the one hand, it does make trade deals easier to get the approval from the U.S., on the other hand, there is the argument that Congress is usurping its role by giving away some of the authority to amend trade deals. Where do you stand on that? Do you think TPA was a good idea?
 
Johnson: Well, I may have vetoed more legislation than the other 49 governors combined when I was governor of New Mexico. So I go into these trade deals skeptical. Is it promoting crony capitalism, is it government interference in a situation that would work better as free market?

Well, I think that's really the case all the time. But what's currently in place and how this legislation is going to improve on that, I don't even really want to say if this in fact will or will not improve on it.
 
Now, the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, I'm skeptical that that contains a whole lot of crony capitalism. You know, government interference. But people that are helping me out with this, people that I really respect, say that the legislation actually improves on trade. Given that, I'd have to say I was going to sign it, that I would sign it, but devil's in the details and I hope people would appreciate that I would be that skeptic at the table.

Examiner: So it's sort of a tentative yes, but you're still not completely 100 percent sold?
 
Johnson: I'm not completely, 100 percent sold, but I will tell you, all the people that I greatly respect that are helping me out on this say it's an improvement and I should support it.
 
Examiner: Is it difficult for you at all to take that message to workers who have seen their jobs move overseas or who have lost their jobs because of — or who attribute the loss of their job to — trade?
 
Johnson: Well, what's not being seen are the opportunities that are created with free markets. The other day, somebody was talking to me about steel and the fact that, "Well, China's dumping steel on the United States. That's jobs that steel producers in the United States lose out on." Well, what if China wants to subsidize their steel, who benefits from that? Well, it's us buying their steel and being able to build more steel buildings.
 
How many jobs are going to get created because of a steel building erection taking place because we're able to buy steel 30 percent cheaper than what we should be able to buy it for because China's subsidizing it?


I just think any subsidization that happens, in the case of China, for example, we're the ones that are going to be at an advantage and we should try and take advantage of that and ultimately, it's not sustainable on their end. But that's free market as opposed to government injecting itself.
 
Examiner: One of the main arguments made against it is that it makes it easier for U.S. companies to outsource jobs to foreign countries. Is that something that the government can and should be preventing, if it can be prevented at all?
 
Johnson: Well, as president of the United States, when it comes to tax policy, count on me to sign legislation that simplifies taxes or reduces taxes. If I could wave a magic wand, I would eliminate corporate tax, income tax and abolish the IRS and would replace all of it with one, single federal consumption tax.
 
I ask everyone to look at the Fair Tax, which is a proposed piece of legislation on how to dot the Is, cross the Ts when it comes to accomplishing one federal consumption tax.

 

But if we have zero corporate tax in this country, tens of millions of jobs will get created in this country as opposed to anywhere else because why would you start up or grow a business or jobs anywhere in the world other than the United States if there was a zero corporate tax rate?
 
Examiner: One issue in particular that is really important to young people is college debt. And just today we saw Hillary Clinton announce that she's expanding her debt-free college proposals. Bernie Sanders has said, "Let's eliminate college tuition altogether." What is your plan to rein in college debt and if anything, offer students some relief from the debt they already carry?
 
Johnson: Well, the main reason for the high cost of college tuition is guaranteed government student loans. If guaranteed government student loans were to have never existed, I guarantee you college tuition would be half of what it is today. Because college tuition, colleges and universities are absolutely immune to market forces, supply and demand.
 
Government has skewed the supply side of this by guaranteeing government student loans. I think that students have been sold a bill of goods, and when it comes to interest rates, as president, I would love to see a piece of legislation that somehow fixes the interest rate at a much lower level than what students are currently on the hook for now.
 
If you have a student loan and it's a 7 percent interest, that's a doubling of the debt in 10 years.


Examiner: Democrats and liberals are pushing for a higher minimum wage, as high as $15 an hour at the federal level. Some states and cities have adopted that. What do you think the minimum wage should be, or should we have one at all?
 
Johnson: I think everybody's missing the boat. I think we should go straight to $75 an hour. I mean, come on, let's really be prosperous ... Well, I think when you say "$75 an hour," I think people get it. "Well, gee, we can't do $75." Well, how is it that we can do $15? Come on. Minimum wage is minimum wage, and the government's going to determine that minimum wage?
 
I do not think government should be involved in this. I think it eliminates jobs, I think that people starting out in the job market, that they should be given all the opportunity they can to get the jobs that may or may not be available. But government picking a number, and they're going to pick $15, and gee how does that work with the accompanying inflation that always goes along with this?
 
That in my lifetime, I'm sure that a McDonald's hamburger at some point is going to be $6.
 
Examiner: Would you keep the existing $7.25 an hour federal minimum wage, or would you move to abolish it?


Johnson: I would sign legislation to abolish it. I don't think it should be established and I, having been in business, having employed a thousand people myself, the minimum wage was never an issue. Meaning, somebody that showed up on time and wore clean clothes, you know what? That was not a minimum-wage job. That was something much higher.
 
Examiner: Getting a bit back to some economic issues, we've had four states in the last four years adopt right-to-work laws, the most since the 1950s. Unless I'm mistaken, New Mexico doesn't have such a law. Do you support them? Do you think it should be a national standard? What do you think of that issue?
 
Johnson: Well, I support it, absolutely. I think that, you know, you shouldn't have to belong to a union to get a job and it's just that simple. It doesn't exist in New Mexico. I think that states that have adopted right-to-work prosper more.
 
Examiner: Are there any changes or amendments that you would make to the National Labor Relations Act?
 
Johnson: Well, you know, devil's in the details. But Congress could certainly be doing those kinds of things, and I'd certainly be amenable to looking at changes, and by changes it's just making it easier to be able to get a job.
 
Examiner: Can entitlements be reformed in any meaningful way? I mean is it politically feasible?


Johnson: I believe so, in my heart of hearts. Medicaid and Medicare both need to be devolved to the states. As governor of New Mexico, if the federal government would have given me a fixed amount of money, say based on the prior year and that I needed to draw new lines of eligibility to make that money work.
 
In my heart of hearts, those that do need a safety net would have received it, and we'd have done it for a lot less money. I say 50 laboratories of innovation and best practice, the states, there will be some fabulous success if we'll do that, there will also be horrible failure, but we'll all emulate the success.
 
And Social Security, I mean raising the retirement age for starters. Look, it's insolvent in the future. It's going to be insolvent. It has to be addressed.
 
And if we're going to put our heads in the sand, electing a president that's not going to acknowledge that and take part in the debate and the discussion over how do we reform Social Security so it is viable in the future ... Look, I think we all understand that. But [Sleezebag] and Clinton don't, or this is somehow the ticket to getting elected and then re-elected.
 
Examiner: The Labor Department recently changed the rules for overtime. They basically doubled the number of people who are covered by the rule for time-and-a-half after 40 hours. Do you think that was the right thing to do?


Johnson: No, it's not. It's a decision. I mean, as long as you're not forced to have to work, you know? Forcing an employee to have to work, well that's the time-and-a-half. I'm not sure what these new rules are that you're talking about, but based on the sound of it, it's just going to amount to less overtime.
 
People not having the opportunity to work, because employers are going to decide that it costs too much money. They're just not going to expand.
 
Examiner: Do you still support a national sales tax?

 
Johnson: Well, I wouldn't call it a national sales tax, [but instead a] consumption tax. One federal consumption tax, if I could wave my magic wand. Now, the problem with a national sales tax in and of itself is if we adopt a national sales tax, then it's just going to be an add-on tax to what we currently have, and that's not something that I'm proposing here at all.
 
Abolish income tax, abolish corporate tax, eliminate the 16th amendment, which allows for income tax in the first place, and then convert all that over to a federal consumption tax. Imagine life without the IRS.
 
Examiner: Janet Yellen. What do you think of the job she has done, and is there anything you would do to reform the Federal Reserve?
 
Johnson: Well, the things that I think would be obtainable would be returning the Federal Reserve to its ... mandate from 1977, to deal with inflation. That is as opposed to its dual mandate now to deal with inflation and full employment, which, in my opinion, are counterintuitive.
 
Examiner: Do you think the Labor Department's monthly numbers for unemployment ought to be adjusted to include the underemployed and those marginally attached to the workforce?
 
Johnson: I do think so, and it should also include all of those who just plain left the workforce.
 
Examiner: What about the Dodd-Frank Act? Would you repeal that or change it in anyway?


Johnson: I would sign any legislation that would make things simpler. With regard to the 2008 financial collapse ... those institutions should have been allowed to fail. It would not have resulted in a collapse of the system. They should have been allowed to fail. They weren't.
 
Examiner: This from your own campaign website: '"Is the climate changing? Probably so. Is man contributing to that change? Probably so. The important question, however, is whether the government's efforts to regulate, tax and manipulate the marketplace in order to impact that change are cost-effective — or effective at all."
 
You seem to be throwing up your hands there. Are you saying the federal government doesn't have a role in this?
 
Johnson: The role, as far as the Environmental Protection Agency, is to identify health or safety concerns with regard to emissions. I think right now what is happening with climate change, what is happening with the coal industry, is that coal has been bankrupted. It has been bankrupted by the free market.
 
As low as the price of coal is today, natural gas is even lower. So, no new coal plants are going to be built ... Those that exist now are being grandfathered in [under the EPA regulations].
 
So, coal, the number one contributor to CO2 emissions in the world, is dead. Coal is dead. And the free market did it because we, as consumers, are demanding less carbon emissions.


Examiner: What is your opinion of voter identification laws?
 
Johnson: The devil is in the details, but I think making it harder to vote is the wrong route. So, I think voter identification laws are, for the most part, to restrict immigrants from voting. I mean legal immigrants in this case.
 
It is just to make it harder for people to vote? We should make it easier to vote. And voter fraud is, I think, incredibly overblown. Is there some? I am certain there is some, but it is inconsequential.
 
Examiner: Last week, the Supreme Court effectively killed the president's immigration executive order. While understanding that you are pro-immigration, there is also a question of the constitutional balance of powers there. Does the president have the right to issue that kind of executive order?
 
Johnson: Yes, he was. I also understand the separation of powers and the fact that the Supreme Court rules. So this is more tantamount than ever that this issue needs to be dealt with. I am in the camp that we need to make it as easy as possible to get a work visa. Not a green card. Not citizenship. A work visa.
 
Examiner: Do you believe, more broadly speaking, that the president ought to be able to circumvent Congress through expansive interpretations of executive power?


Johnson: No, but that is the continual battle that will always rage: the separation of powers. It will be eternal in our system of government.
 
Examiner: Assuming you did get into the White House, how would you be able to manage with a Congress divided by two opposing parties, neither of which owes you any loyalty?
 
Johnson: Actually, I think that would be the bind: You could challenge both sides to be good at what they are supposed to be good at. Republicans, they say they are for smaller government. Well, the smaller government they choose and expansion of the government in the areas where they want to expand, like the military.
 
And then the Democrats ... We have got one of the highest incarceration rates of any country in the world. Why don't you do something about that? And our military interventions without a congressional declaration of war? Come on, Democrats, that is what you are supposed to be all about, right?
 
No, I think it would be a great opportunity to actually bridge the gap.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 11, 2016, 05:38:04 PM
http://www.vox.com/a/hillary-clinton-interview/the-gap-listener-leadership-quality (http://www.vox.com/a/hillary-clinton-interview/the-gap-listener-leadership-quality)

"UNDERSTANDING HILLARY Why the Clinton America sees isn't the Clinton colleagues know."

It's a rather long one, complete with video clips, and it stood out from headlines like "56% disapprove of FBI decision"," The majority think Hillary should have been charged", etc.


Strangely, it determines that she's a "good listener" and she's a super compartmentalizer in person.

So , if you're looking for a fresh perspective on the "real Hillary Clinton" you might find this interesting... or perplexing...or something.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 11, 2016, 06:07:51 PM
I'll have to have a look.  The Vanity Fair article I linked a few months ago -that talked about how she was in the hallway v. in the room with all the tall men- was fascinating reading, and I don't see a downside to gaining a better understanding of this person we're about to get stuck with for at least one hitch...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 11, 2016, 06:58:18 PM
I don't see a downside to gaining a better understanding of this person we're about to get stuck with for at least one hitch...

Can't argue against that logic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 13, 2016, 05:14:09 PM
An MSNBC opinion piece from Jesse Ventura about third party candidates. He speaks with authority, because he's done it successfully.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/jesse-ventura-why-im-voting-for-libertarian-candidate-gary-johnson-for-president-commentary.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/13/jesse-ventura-why-im-voting-for-libertarian-candidate-gary-johnson-for-president-commentary.html)

Why I'm voting for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson for president

Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota and author of "Sh*t Politicians Say: The Funniest, Dumbest, Most Outrageous Things Ever Uttered By Our Leaders"

I've always had the belief that you vote for someone you believe in. When you cast your vote, you want that person to be president. You don't vote for one politician so that another doesn't become president. And yet here you have an instance where people don't want either the Democrat or Republican nominee as president! People are going to vote for Donald [Sleezebag] because they don't want Hillary Clinton — and people are going to vote for Clinton because they don't want [Sleezebag]. That's a horrible way to pick the next commander-in-chief.


What astounds me is that the American public willingly accepts that these are the two choices the political gangs that run our country are offering us. And until this country wakes up and realizes that there are in fact more than two choices, despite what mainstream media shoves down our throats, then this is what we're going to get.


Ron Paul mentioned that he's probably going to vote Libertarian this year. He should. After all, he was their presidential nominee back in 1988. Come November, I will join him, voting for Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson again, just like I did in 2012. He's on the ballot in all 50 states, and this year I hope voters won't be lemmings. This is the year for a third party to rise, if there ever was one. This is the time for the people to stand up and say, "We've had enough, and we're still in charge." Whether voters exercise that option, we'll have to see.

I like everything Gary Johnson has said so far. He's fiscally conservative and socially liberal – something neither Democrats nor Republicans can offer. He also has a solid plan for bringing our troops home and restoring our economy. And, like me, he's a firm believer that marijuana should be legal.

If you dare sit there and say a third party can't win the presidency, then I want to know how many times you've won the lottery. Seriously, if you already know the future, how come you aren't banned from purchasing lotto tickets? Well, I have news for you: There are countries that actually care about political corruption and there are countries that actually do something about it. I'd be a proud American if I could say our country was on that list, but unfortunately we're not.

In 2016, the people of Iceland elected Guðni Jóhannesson for president. He is a history professor who has never been affiliated with a political party, not even when he announced his run for president. His presidential campaign came about after an anonymous source leaked the Panama Papers and exposed top Icelandic officials of tax evasion.

Iceland's prime minister Sigmundur Davíð Gunnlaugsson, who was among those named in the Panama Papers, had to resign due to public pressure and the sitting president Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, who was in office for five straight terms (spanning a total of 20 years), announced in May 2016 that he would not seek re-election because his wife was implicated in the Panama Papers.

People, this is a man who had been president since 1996!

Yes, Iceland's president is the head of state and although he doesn't hold the same position as ours does, he is the only elected position chosen by the entire country. The president appoints the prime minister, who is the head of government, and the president does have a form of vetoing power. The point is this: The position is important enough for the fact that Jóhannesson ran without any party affiliation whatsoever to really matter.


To this day, president-elect Guðni Jóhannesson says he does not support any particular political party. What are his qualifications? He is an expert on political history, diplomacy, and Iceland's constitution. That's all it took for him to win with 39.1 percent of the vote, and he wasn't the only person running for president without party affiliation. Halla Tómasdóttir, a businesswoman, came in second place with 27.9 percent, and she also ran independent, without any party affiliation.


Imagine that! The people of Iceland actually had to become educated about what their presidential candidates stood for prior to voting for them.

Folks, Iceland's presidential elections took place on June 25, 2016, and there were 10 people on the ballot running for president! And in previous years, there have never been more than six presidential candidates on the ballot. Iceland has a population of 330,000 people and they've had as many as six people running for president prior to 2016? Yet here we are, the supposed leaders of the free world, limiting ourselves to two corrupt political parties because we don't believe a third option could win? In Iceland, there are so many political parties that the parliament has no choice but to compromise and work together. They have to form alliances in order to get anything done!


Granted, I know Iceland is a smaller country than the U.S. and I know their population demographics are much different, but wouldn't it make more sense that, in a smaller country, there would be far less choices than in a larger one? You could easily say why on earth would Iceland need that many political parties? Wouldn't that just divide the small country unnecessarily? Yet the divisions cause them to come together to find common ground.

Could you imagine if there were so many political parties in the U.S. that Congress saw a benefit in coming together to pass legislation — and that legislation would therefore represent what all the people actually wanted? Well, if We the People start to vote for third parties, then this will actually happen. I think of Iceland as a small-scale model for what we could accomplish if we stopped believing only two political parties are capable of running our country. I don't know who started that philosophy, but it's pathetically stupid. And for the record, I'm case in point as to how a third party can win: I ran for governor of Minnesota under the Reform Party against the Democrats and the Republicans. They both outspent me and they both were beating me in the polls, but enough people showed up and voted for me and I was elected. It's really that simple.

And how will the new president of Iceland, who has no party affiliation, be able to work with the system as a complete outsider?

He says that since he has no political bias, he'll be able work with everyone equally to do what's best for Iceland! So maybe we should really be working to abolish all political parties completely. If you don't go into office with an agenda — an agenda that is dictated to you by the special interest groups that got you elected in the first place — then you do what's best for the people. But first thing's first: This November, the time has come to vote for the third option.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 13, 2016, 07:24:19 PM
http://theweek.com/speedreads/635661/washington-post-new-york-times-just-took-trumps-side-fight-justice-ginsburg (http://theweek.com/speedreads/635661/washington-post-new-york-times-just-took-trumps-side-fight-justice-ginsburg)

Very odd twist.  Ginsburg (supreme court judge) slams [Sleezebag], but the NY Times and Washington Post (both very leftist publications) come back and slam Ginsburg for getting involved in politics. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2016, 07:30:53 PM
Maybe those are all principled stands.  -Not the way I'd bet, but the mode of public behavior hasn't been entirely wiped out yet...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 13, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
I am sure it is principled stands.  Neither publication is supporting [Sleezebag] for prez, just saying that Ginsburg was dead wrong in getting involved in politics and supporting trumps statement that Ginsburg should resign her supreme court seat for the simple fact that she is making public political statements.

The fact that both publications are going so far as that says a lot, IMHO. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2016, 07:45:55 PM
...She's speaking out of turn, of course, but that's more a matter of tradition than anything I'm aware of spelled out in the rules - though it probably should be...

It's the Pig, of course, and you HAVE to say something against him or not speak at all...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 13, 2016, 07:57:21 PM
http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges (http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges)

Code of Conduct, US Judges

Not a law by any means, but very clearly spelled out that judges shall not become political.  Back when I was working Civil Engineering, there was a city engineer I had to work with that got called out on similar code of conduct violations (nothing to do with me or any of my stuff - thankfully) that caused him to go before professional review committee's and eventually forced him out of the profession (which was a good thing as he was an arse of the 1st degree).  I don't know how judges as a profession works, but I can see something similar happening - and without [Sleezebag] being involved at all, just other judges going against her for violating their code of conduct. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
Oh sure.  It makes all sorts of sense for there to be rules against it.  -I take a dim view of that bar association kind of stuff virtually having the force of law, but something that tends to mitigate against judicial positions being any more political than can be helped is hardly a bad thing, not least SCOTUS justices.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 13, 2016, 09:13:11 PM
I can tell you that when I was a political cog, there was a strict separation at the county level, on up to state supreme court. Once a guy was elected, we never saw him again.

I particularly remember that at a banquet when the only GOP member of the state Supreme Court was standing for  re-election, he sent one of his Democratic colleagues to dine on the dias with the congressmen, and tell stories about him. The GOP state justice was never seen amongst us. He would not speak on his own behalf, shake hands or rub elbows with us as a strict matter of judicial ethics.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2016, 09:31:50 PM
I take it the Democrat had his back well?

Too bad there's not more of that kind of thing anymore...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 13, 2016, 10:36:47 PM
I take it the Democrat had his back well?

Too bad there's not more of that kind of thing anymore...

I should have specified that the State Supreme Court justices were elected to 10 year terms, same as the county judges.

It was a friendly work stories kind of thing, not so much about policy as character, and how he liked and respected him as a dedicated public servant. There may have been some jokes. The candidate was nicknamed "Sparks" because he was pro-death penalty.

I understand Ginsberg and Scalia had a great friendship. She appreciated his wit.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 13, 2016, 10:42:30 PM
Again, not enough of that going around anymore - the bad-mouthing and acrimony is a serious problem of its own.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 12:11:33 AM
POLLS

-hillary-clinton-quinnipiac-poll-florida-ohio-pennsylvania/87021744/]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/13/donald-[Sleezebag]-hillary-clinton-quinnipiac-poll-florida-ohio-pennsylvania/87021744/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/13/donald-[Sleezebag)

Poll: [Sleezebag] even with Clinton in three swing states

David M Jackson, USA TODAY 1:32 p.m. EDT July 13, 2016

A new poll has good news for Donald [Sleezebag] in the swing states of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

[Sleezebag] is either slightly ahead or tied with Democratic rival Hillary Clinton in those three key battlegrounds, according to a Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll released Wednesday.

"He has wiped out Hillary Clinton's lead in Florida; is on the upside of too-close to call races in Florida and Pennsylvania and is locked in a dead heat in Ohio," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

One possible reason for Clinton's drop: her use of private email while secretary of State.

Said Brown: "While there is no definite link between Clinton's drop in Florida and the U.S. Justice Department decision not to prosecute her for her handling of emails, she has lost ground to [Sleezebag] on questions which measure moral standards and honesty."

[Sleezebag]'s only real movement is in Florida, according to these polls; the Ohio and Pennsylvania numbers are relatively constant, within the margin of error.

Also worth noting: The Florida sample is 29% Democrat; 35% of Democrats made up the state electorate in the 2012 presidential election, and the Clinton campaign is predicting a strong Democratic turnout in the Sunshine State this November.

Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon tweeted that "we know the battlegrounds are going to be close til the end. That's why we need to keep working so hard. [Sleezebag] is a serious danger, folks."

Meanwhile, a NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist poll in Pennsylvania also released Wednesday showed Clinton with a solid lead there. The poll found Clinton up nine points, 45% to 36%, over the real estate mogul.

In two other battleground states, the NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Marist survey found tighter contests. In Iowa, Clinton led 42% to 39%, while in Ohio, the two presumptive nominees were tied, 39% to 39%.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 12:14:59 AM
I smell a rat.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 12:21:39 AM
I smell a rat.

Quinipac says otherwise to this poll.  I'm having hardware crashes, and it wants to update on the restart.  I have more to share on the subject.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 12:27:23 AM
Say on when you can - I trust YOU...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 12:40:39 AM
#%^&%$#

Here's the particulars for the Quinnipac Poll-

https://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2365 (https://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2365)

Personal Opinion - Like Nate Silver said, if Gary Johnson is going to be on the state ballot, he should be included in the poll.

I do think Hillary took a hit from the FBI director.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 14, 2016, 12:51:19 AM
I do think Hillary took a hit from the FBI director.

That's usually what happens when you break the law.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 01:04:22 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 01:13:45 AM
!@#$%^&*(

-clinton-tied-battleground-states.html]http://www.politicususa.com/2016/05/10/dont-buy-poll-showing-[Sleezebag]-clinton-tied-battleground-states.html (http://www.politicususa.com/2016/05/10/dont-buy-poll-showing-[Sleezebag)

Here’s Why Quinnipiac’s Polls Showing [Sleezebag] Leading Clinton Are Totally Wrong

By Jason Easley on Wed, Jul 13th, 2016 at 11:30 am

The media has hopped all over three new Quinnipiac University polls showing [Sleezebag] leading Clinton in Pennsylvania and Florida, but the problem is that Quinnipiac is rigging their polls for the best possible [Sleezebag] outcome.

A new batch of polling from Quinnipiac University is turning heads today, as it shows Hillary Clinton and Donald [Sleezebag] essentially tied in three swing states.

In Florida and Pennsylvania, the survey has Clinton beating [Sleezebag] by just a single point, while Clinton trails [Sleezebag] by four points in the all-important battleground state of Ohio.

In a year filled with countless polls showing Clinton solidly leading [Sleezebag] in most hypothetical match-ups, the media quickly seized on Quinnipiac’s findings and treated it as a sign that the spray-tanned billionaire is gaining ground on the former Secretary of State.

Don’t buy the hype.

Relative to other polling, virtually all of Quinnipiac’s general election polling this year has leaned toward the Republican candidate. With other polls taken into account, the Q poll looks more like an outlier than an indication that [Sleezebag] is closing in on Clinton.

In Ohio, for example, every survey – except for Quinnipiac’s – taken throughout this campaign has found the former Secretary of State leading the New York businessman. Clinton beats [Sleezebag] by over five percentage points in Ohio if you take the average of every non-Q poll since March.

Even with Quinnipiac’s results included, Clinton is ahead of [Sleezebag] by an average of seven points in Pennsylvania and over four points in Florida, according to RealClearPolitics.

So, why is this poll wrong and the others showing Clinton ahead probably more accurate? The answer to that is simple: demographics.

Without fail, the voting population has gotten less white for decades. According to Pew Research Center, 2016 will again follow that trend and be “the most diverse in U.S. history.”

The folks at Quinnipiac University missed the memo because the poll they released today is based on the impossible assumption that 2016 will defy decades of trends and become more white, not less. Thus, [Sleezebag]’s support is inflated in each state they polled.

So unfortunately for The Donald, who excitedly posted this poll on his Facebook page today, there will not be a surge of white voters heading to cast their ballots in November. If anything, the non-white electorate [Sleezebag] has so joyously denigrated during his campaign will show up in large numbers to oppose him.

Today’s poll certainly made for an exciting – and, for liberals, frightening – piece of cable news fodder, but we should just discard it and move on.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 01:24:24 AM
It was the explanation supplied by "Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll" that was the giveaway; read it again and ask yourself if that's much of attempt to be impartial towards Mrs. Clinton...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 02:11:24 AM















Here are the 4-way July polls from RealClearPolitics summary. I figure the Green Party votes will come at Hillary's expense, ( although they won't be on the ballots in all states)  and therefore this is the most conservative estimate of Hillary's strength.
 
 

Poll  Date  Sample  [MoE] /Clinton (D) /[Sleezebag] (R)/ (L) Johnson (L) /Stein (G)/Spread

RCP Average 6/21 - 7/11 -- -- 40.3/ 36.3/ 7.3 /3.6 /Clinton +4.0
McClatchy/Marist 7/5 - 7/9 1053 RV[ 3.0] 40 /35 /10/ 5/ Clinton +5
Economist/YouGov 7/9 - 7/11 932 RV [4.5] 40/ 37 5/ 2 /Clinton +3
Reuters/Ipsos 7/2 - 7/6 1345 RV [2.8] 42 /33/ 6/ 4 /Clinton +9
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 02:44:23 AM
I don't have to tell you, of all people, that Libertarian is more than ultraconservative, but adding the observation that Johnson, God bless 'im, is going to spoil far more on the right, and him and Stein will both turn out a certain number who might not have bothered otherwise, yeah - Green is a temptation to many on the left (fringe especially) who would consider Mrs. Clinton mostly to block Mr. Bill-Of-Goods.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 04:11:18 AM
I don't know what the term conservative means anymore. It's not about being fiscally conservative, as I originally thought, and it's not about conserving energy or the environment. It's not even about being cautious, or there wouldn't have been an Iraq II. It's not really about conserving The Bill of Rights, or there wouldn't be a Patriot Act.

It's simply...a CON.

/Rant.

Okay, I feel better now.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 04:12:38 AM
:D I do, too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 14, 2016, 04:56:25 AM
::)

She breached the Federal Records Act by not routing emails through Govt servers, and deleting 31,000 emails before handing the remaining emails over to the FBI.

That's breaking the law wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 05:03:18 AM
It's a fake scandal, Dale.  Fake.  Made up out of trivia.  They're so busy making mountains out of molehills when it come to the scumbag Clintons that nobody listens when the Clintons are actually guilty of something important.

See also everything Uno -who knows a little something about gubmint security professionally- already had to say on the subject.  In this thread.  Recently.  All your nonsense has already been covered.  It's made up out of clerks and gubmint types suck at computers and your laws were there at the time.

AND WILL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP MAKING ME DEFEND THAT WOMAN?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 14, 2016, 06:18:20 AM
Gleanings-

Jeb Bush is following in Romney's footsteps, saying he'll be deeply sad if Hillary wins, and worried if [Sleezebag] does. He flat out cannot vote for either of them, and made a point of bringing up Johnson as a third option, and says he's considering it.

The Real George Bush, ever the public servant, took the job of rebuilding the GOP after Watergate. It must be terribly tragic for he and Jeb to watch [Sleezebag] destroy the party.

-------------------

[Sleezebag] is trying to create buzz about his VP choice, due to be announced Friday. He says it's down to two in his mind, but his inner circle of family and advisors are split. So they are still talking about Pence, Gingrich, Christie, mostly. Some say he may chose a surprise to create more attention.

---------------
"A national Morning Consult survey conducted July 8-10 has Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton narrowly leading her Republican counterpart Donald [Sleezebag] 39 percent to 37 percent, within the survey’s margin of error of 2 percent.

Johnson, meanwhile, receives 12 percent, up from 10 percent in mid-June. Thirteen percent don’t know or have no opinion. "

This is the odd poll from before. That survey from their home page sends me an e-mail once a week asking for consumer info, which I ain't about to share. I made the mistake of doing that once, and eventually dropped that e-mail account on account of spam. While it's an outlier, the trends seem to follow the other polls.

------------

I can't even remember most of the stuff I've read about Hillary of late . She was interviewing an Admiral for VP to counter [Sleezebag]'s General.

---------------------

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 14, 2016, 11:30:00 AM
It's a fake scandal, Dale.  Fake.  Made up out of trivia.  They're so busy making mountains out of molehills when it come to the scumbag Clintons that nobody listens when the Clintons are actually guilty of something important.

See also everything Uno -who knows a little something about gubmint security professionally- already had to say on the subject.  In this thread.  Recently.  All your nonsense has already been covered.  It's made up out of clerks and gubmint types suck at computers and your laws were there at the time.

AND WILL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE STOP MAKING ME DEFEND THAT WOMAN?

So are you saying she didn't break the law?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 14, 2016, 01:21:41 PM
So are you saying she didn't break the law?

Unfortunately, no.

The laws were different (guidelines) that said that she shouldn't use a private server, not that she couldn't.  It is the loose way the rules were written at the time she did it that said she didn't break the law.  If she were to do it today, it would be against the law.

The deletion of the emails there is no proof that she deleted them.  Could have been a secretary, spam filter, etc.  At least, that is the defense, and as weak as it sounds it is strong enough to cause reasonable doubt.

Personally, I think she knew exactly what was going on, that she intentionally pushed the limits, and that she did it all for personal gain reasons.  I don't trust the lady at all.  I wouldn't be surprised if emails from her server get published by Putin in a couple of years, or the Chinese, as I am sure that these private servers (there were several, not just hers) were probably all hacked. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 02:24:25 PM
Most of ^this^, and GodKing is even less of a HilFan than I am.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 14, 2016, 04:50:22 PM

So are you saying she didn't break the law?


NO SHE DIDN'T. 

The laws were different (guidelines) that said that she shouldn't use a private server, not that she couldn't.  It is the loose way the rules were written at the time she did it that said she didn't break the law.


NO, THE LAW SAID SHE HAD TO KEEP COPIES OF THE EMAILS.  While it's against overall government policy, it WAS, and STILL IS the practice of the state department to conduct business via non-encrypted and private means. 


Quote
If she were to do it today, it would be against the law.


NO IT WOULDN'T!

Why in the hell does everyone still believe that? 

Don't believe me?  Why would senate be bothering trying to make it illegal then? 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/private-email-ban-state-senate-bill-225478 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/private-email-ban-state-senate-bill-225478)

THIS IS ABOUT THE TRANSFER OF FOREIGN INFORMATION, which is by the book classified. 

So, tell me.  How is a diplomat supposed to have timely conversations with foreign dignitaries (thereby creating foreign information) if they have to jump through the hoops to clear and procure encrypted channels first (I have it on decent authority that's a 3 month process, per conversation)?  REALLY?  SERIOUSLY? 

LET THEM DO THEIR DAMN JOB.

As it stands, removing private means of communication a diplomat would need to use classified communications every time they talk to any foreign dignitary.  The trouble?  Those very foreign dignitaries will not be cleared for that communication.  Period. 

Do the rules need to be addressed for the specifics of the State Department?  Yes.  But in the mean time, this is the work-around, and you can't just cut them off. 



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 05:09:13 PM
-And THAT'S also why you don't try to gin up a fake scandal out of Bengazi - the SOS has never attended to that level of embassy security, the mistakes were made far below her level and it's a whole lot of nothing - even the coverup charges, as she's guilty of acting like a politician doing damage control when something nasty happened on her watch in her department, which makes. her. a. politician. like pretty much all of them, alas.

And the constant insanely high noise-to-signal ratio makes it impossible to go after her for her greatest sin - acting as an active collaborator to the crimes of the Cheney Bund, something for which the vast majority of everyone in both houses of congress should have been run out of public service permanently - including our sitting President who has a similar shield of enemy lies and bullcrap he can hide behind, always drowning out the real stuff he's guilty of, annoying as the noise is.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 14, 2016, 10:50:54 PM
Thanks Uno.

I only skim this thread, only about 15% is of interest to me. I didn't see your previous posts.

Plus i can only go by what the media here covers which is lucky to be 10 mins per week on the US.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 14, 2016, 11:25:00 PM
Still more than we hear about Oz if Bindi Erwin isn't on Dancing With the Stars... :(
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 15, 2016, 12:20:11 AM
All we get is 95% mass shootings and how long it's been since one's been in Australia (20 years plus for those at home playing) and the remaining 5% is on what stupid things T rump and Clinton have said that week.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2016, 12:49:13 AM
Ugh.  You can have both sorts of 'Mercan news with my blessing.  I don't want it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 15, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
Heard (tv at restaurant tonight with the family) that [Sleezebag] picked his VP (Indiana Governor Mike Pence) but was delaying the official announcement because of the terrorist attack in Nice. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2016, 02:18:15 AM
Did it turn out to be that?  I was hoping it was an accident or something...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2016, 04:07:36 AM
-on-the-gop-ticket/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/14/10-things-you-should-know-about-mike-pence-who-may-join-donald-[Sleezebag]-on-the-gop-ticket/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/14/10-things-you-should-know-about-mike-pence-who-may-join-donald-[Sleezebag)

He's supposed to be levelheaded and a stabilizing influence. I really have no time for the Theocons who write laws to enable discrimination against gays and call it "religious liberty". Possibly his support of one such bill is what hurt his re-election chances as governor, and why he is willing to abandon that race and run for VP instead.

----------------------
The Fix
10 things you should know about Mike Pence, Donald [Sleezebag]’s likely running mate
 By Amber Phillips July 14 at 1:10 PM


Here's what you need to know about one of Donald [Sleezebag]'s potential vice presidential candidates. (Peter Stevenson, Danielle Kunitz, Osman Malik/The Washington Post)

After weeks of intrigue, and less than a day before his Friday morning vice-presidential announcement in New York, Donald [Sleezebag]'s most likely running mate is reportedly Indiana Gov. Mike Pence (R).

Pence was among the safer choices on [Sleezebag]'s short list, in part because there were few options more different than [Sleezebag] himself.

The governor is a well-known and generally well-liked figure in Republican circles. He's been in public office since 2000, most of that time in Congress. And he's got social conservative cred that could shore up support for the ticket among evangelicals who are wary of [Sleezebag].

Here's what you need to know about him:

1. Yes, he's that guy from the last year's religious freedom debate.

Pence was already well known and respected in Republican circles when he was elected governor of Indiana in 2012. But he became a household name when he signed a religious freedom bill into law in 2015. Pence said it would extend legal protections to Indiana business owners who didn't want to participate in same-sex weddings, citing their religious beliefs; opponents argued that he was sanctioning discrimination.

The law got so much attention that at the 2015 White House correspondents' dinner, President Obama joked he and Vice President Biden were so close that "in some places in Indiana, they won't serve us pizza anymore."

 

After a week of taking heat from Democrats, LGBT activists, corporate America and the NBA, Pence signed an amendment, saying it's not okay to use it to discriminate against gay people. But that didn't quell activists' criticism of the law, nor did it boost Pence's tanking approval ratings.

2. He's a social conservative.

Pence is a devout evangelical Christian who regularly talks about his faith. (He likes to describe himself as "a Christian, a conservative and a Republican, in that order.") This spring, Pence signed into law one of the strictest abortion laws in the nation. Indiana is now the second state in the nation to ban abortions when the fetus has a disability, a law likely to be challenged in court.

But not all social conservatives are thrilled with Pence now: Some thought he backed off last year's religious freedom debate under pressure from liberal groups.

3. He's facing a competitive reelection.

At least, he was. Pence will have to drop out of his reelection bid now if he becomes [Sleezebag]'s vice-presidential nominee — which may be a good thing for him, given the religious freedom debate did Pence no favors in his reelection bid. Sensing an opportunity in a state that's been trending red lately, Democrats re-recruited businessman John Gregg, who has described himself as a "gun-totin,’ Bible-quotin,’ Southern Indiana Democrat." Pence and Gregg have matched up against each other before: Gregg lost to Pence in 2012 by 3.2 percentage points in an election in which Pence failed to get 50 percent of the vote. The race made our list of top 5 seats most likely to flip.

4. He was an early advocate for the tea party movement.

One of Pence's former advisers told NBC that even before the 2010 summer of discontent between conservatives and the establishment, Pence was tuned into the populist strain of the party. While in Congress, he voted against big spending bills that the tea party would come to loathe.

5. He endorsed Ted Cruz for president.

The political world's eyes were again on Pence this spring when his state had the potential to determine the winner of the Republican presidential primary. Pence came under scrutiny for being unusually quiet about who he'd support, a reflection of how the primary divided the populist strain of the GOP and its leaders. Four days before the primary, he finally, somewhat halfheartedly, said he'd be voting for Ted Cruz. But Pence tried to tack on a political insurance policy in case [Sleezebag] won the state by adding, "I'm not against anybody," which may not have been the boldest pronouncement but certainly seems to have been the most politically savvy.

[Sleezebag] did win Indiana by almost 20 percentage points. Cruz dropped out that night, and Pence said he'd support [Sleezebag] as the nominee.

6. Paul Ryan likes him.

Before becoming governor of Indiana in 2013, Pence spent six terms in Congress, where he served on committees that dealt with foreign affairs and technology and was generally well-liked and respected by his colleagues. Over time, he smoothed out his populist, tea party edges and rose to some of the highest ranks in the party. In 2008, his colleagues elected him to the House GOP's No. 3 spot, Republican Conference chairman, a job dedicated to shaping the party's messaging after it got slammed in the 2008 elections. (Republicans took back the House in 2010.)

Pence seems to have maintained his ties on Capitol Hill after leaving it. This week, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Pence is a "personal friend."

And before he came to Congress, Pence hosted a talk radio show, calling himself "Rush Limbaugh on decaf."

7. He once challenged John Boehner for his party's leadership spot in the House.

Pence may have harbored dreams of being House speaker himself. In 2006, while Republicans were still in the minority, Pence decided to run for the leader of the party against a veteran GOP congressman from Ohio, John Boehner. It didn't go so well. Pence, who positioned himself as the conservative in the race, lost in a vote among fellow House Republicans 168 to 27.

8. He's long been viewed as a potential presidential candidate.

In 2010, conservative activists at a Values Voter Summit voted Pence their top choice for a 2012 presidential candidate, a key test of grass-roots support (but not one that's necessarily indicative of success). Interestingly, Pence's 2016 veep competition, former House speaker Newt Gingrich, was also on that straw poll and came in fourth.

Pence's name was also floated in 2008 as a potential presidential contender. Pence decided to stay in Indiana and run for governor, where he eeked out a win against Gregg.

9. He's got ties to the Koch brothers.

The billionaire brothers have so far stayed out of the presidential race, a sign they're no fans of [Sleezebag]. But their 2016 involvement could change with Pence by [Sleezebag]'s side: The résumés of several of Pence's top aides also include stints with the Koch brothers' vast corporate and political networks.

UPDATE: Our crack money in politics reporter Matea Gold reports that the Koch brothers don't plan on getting involved in the presidential race even if their guy Pence is the GOP's No. 2.

10. He grew up as a Democrat.

And idolizing John F. Kennedy. Pence told CBN News in a 2010 interview: "It may be that I grew up in a big Irish Catholic family like he did. Maybe it was that my grandparents were so proud of the first Irish Catholic president." He even still has a box of Kennedy memorabilia.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 15, 2016, 04:26:13 AM
 ;goofy; Chimp. ;goofy;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 15, 2016, 04:30:27 AM
The Indystar, CNN and NBC all have claimed that Mike is going  to be the VP pick, although NBC did add this
Quote
[Sleezebag] maintained during an interview on Thursday evening that he has not made a "final, final decision," although sources with knowledge of the pick told NBC News Pence would be [Sleezebag]'s ultimate choice. He also indicated that he will announce tomorrow when the rescheduled VP announcement will be held.


So, does that mean that he will have more than one final VP pick???
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2016, 04:37:14 AM
I think T rump is just playing for publicity.

Pence suddenly dropping out of a re-election campaign for governor seems to indicate that he was told that he was the choice.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 15, 2016, 04:42:30 AM
Maybe [Sleezebag] is going to do something like at the final canidates for The Apprentice RTV show....  SNL could do a great skit with the top picks....  And throw in a Sara Palin look alike for some good previously eliminated video diary shots...  :p

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2016, 05:05:54 AM
Politifact just checked Johnson's claim and found it mostly true.

 

Gary Johnson

"(Mexican immigrants) are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens and that is a statistic."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/14/gary-johnson/mexican-immigrants-more-law-abiding/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/14/gary-johnson/mexican-immigrants-more-law-abiding/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2016, 06:11:58 AM
A new CBS/NYTimes  poll has both @ 40%. Still tied with Johnson ( 12%)  included.

Hillary's trustworthiness took a hit. The Millenials are bailing on her. Not long ago, Hillary was nearly 80 to 20 odds to win and steady at Silver's 528. Now she's slipped to about 66 to 33.

[Sleezebag] should get a "bounce" from the convention next week. So should Hillary when her turn comes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 15, 2016, 05:32:10 PM
Here's an article that ties things together- the Quinnipiac  poll Buncle didn't trust, and what I noticed last night- if the popular vote is tightening up, Clinton is pulling away on the electoral vote.

http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/15/new-swing-state-poll-clinton-leads-big-every-swing-state/ (http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/15/new-swing-state-poll-clinton-leads-big-every-swing-state/)

New Swing State Poll: Clinton Leads BIG in Every Swing State

Posted at 11:05 am on July 15, 2016 by Leon H. Wolf

Earlier this week, Quinnipiac released a swing state poll showing [Sleezebag] tied with Clinton in Ohio and leading comfortably in Florida and Pennsylvania. I poked some fun at the obvious problems with the poll's internals on Twitter, and the [Sleezebag] supporters accused me of trying to "unskew" the poll. Okay. Fine. I guess we have to accept that all the polls are right and none of them have patently bogus samples anymore.

Which is bad news for [Sleezebag] because this NBC/WSJ/Marist poll shows him getting trucked in states that really are swing states any GOP candidate absolutely has to win: North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado, and Florida. The poll shows Clinton leading [Sleezebag] by 6 in North Carolina, 7 in Florida, 8 in Colorado, and 9 in Virginia. Throwing Johnson into the mix reduces Clinton's lead by about 1 point in each state.

If these results are accurate, they portend about a 40-state win for Clinton in November. Which, if I had to guess, is what will likely happen. I am not really sure that they are an accurate representation of where the race stands today, and I'd be tempted to go into the cross tabs and find possible obvious errors, but I don't want to be accused of denying reality when it's right in front of my face.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 01:24:33 AM
Well, Silver did do a piece which stated that Pence was [Sleezebag]'s "least bad" option. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/two-times-mike-pence-brushed-off-science/?ex_cid=2016-forecast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/two-times-mike-pence-brushed-off-science/?ex_cid=2016-forecast)

Jul 15, 2016 at 2:29 PM


Two Times Mike Pence Brushed Off Science
By Anna Maria Barry-Jester

Filed under 2016 Election
As my boss Nate Silver wrote Thursday, most people in the U.S. don’t know much about Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, Donald [Sleezebag]’s vice-presidential pick. That’s likely not the case among public health professionals, given Pence’s rather notorious recent history with public health policy.

Take, for example, an ongoing outbreak of HIV in southern Indiana. From December 2014 to May of this year, 191 cases of HIV, nearly all linked to the injection of the painkiller Opana, were found in Scott County, a rural area near the Kentucky border. Before the outbreak, there had been numerous deaths and known risks from the increase in injection drug use in the area for several years. Pence had long been a vocal opponent of needle exchange programs, which allow drug users to trade in used syringes for sterile ones in order to stop the spread of diseases, despite evidence that they work. Such programs were banned in the state when the outbreak started.

At the end of March last year, four months after the outbreak began, Pence declared a public health emergency, allowing needle exchanges to be opened in Scott County. Scott County Health Officer Dr. R. Kevin Rogers described the program as having “a tremendously positive and dramatic impact” and recently made a successful request to have the program extended until May 2017. At least four other counties have been allowed to start programs as well. Still, Pence hasn’t moved to lift the state ban on funding for needle exchanges and has made it clear in the past that he would veto any bill that tried to lift the ban statewide.

Pence has also shown a deep misunderstanding of basic public health principles in the past. In 2001, he wrote an op-ed declaring that “smoking doesn’t kill.” The evidence? “Two out of three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness.” Diseases are rarely the product of one thing. With lung cancer, for example, there’s a strong genetic component. Some people who don’t smoke will get lung cancer.1 Many people who do smoke will not. Relative risk, which measures the strength of the relationship between an exposure and a health outcome (smoking and lung cancer in this instance), is a funny thing; it can’t be used to measure the risk for an individual, only a group. And at that macro level, the risk of smoking is quite clear, as this oft-cited American Cancer Society chart shows.

Lung cancer isn’t even the most common negative health outcome from smoking. That distinction goes to vascular diseases that cause heart disease and/or stroke, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Pence’s home state of Indiana should be particularly concerned about tobacco: 23 percent of adults are smokers, the sixth-highest statewide rate in the United States. Fifteen percent of pregnant women smoke, nearly double the national average, and the state spent $2.93 billion in 2014 on health costs caused by cigarette smoking — more per capita than 31 other states, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. Still, Indiana has a cigarette tax of just 99 cents,2 lower than 35 other states, despite a wealth of evidence showing that increasing taxes on tobacco reduces smoking rates.

When a tobacco tax hike was proposed this year in Indiana, Pence made it clear that he was not in favor. The tax increase was subsequently taken out of the bill.

All that said, Pence’s track record on public health likely won’t have an effect on the election. Only 37 percent of registered voters said that health care was extremely important to determining who they would vote for this election season, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation poll released Friday.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2016, 02:11:22 AM
Chimp.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 02:50:38 AM
You gotta admit that [Sleezebag]'s nationalism, racism, sexism, and religious intolerance are strangely balanced by Pence's anti LBGT bigotry.  It makes the ticket even more exclusive.

What do they call that in horse racing? The quintilla? ....No, that's when you get 5 things right.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2016, 03:35:02 AM
What do you call it when two monkeys throw their poop and the poops collide and cancel each other out?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 05:42:53 AM
An political campaign?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2016, 01:35:02 PM
In England, yes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 06:12:40 PM
The Toilet Paper team?

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 06:31:36 PM
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/logofail-trumppence-campaign-scrubs-screw-you-branding-after-one-day-of-massive-ridicule/ (https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/logofail-trumppence-campaign-scrubs-screw-you-branding-after-one-day-of-massive-ridicule/)

I can imagine [Sleezebag]'s reactions. 1) I love it! The artist is a genius. 2) I hate it! The artist is a fornicating idiot!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2016, 07:39:40 PM
Possibly both several hours apart - one imagines that a fellow who only tells lies has trouble keeping track.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 16, 2016, 07:55:05 PM
The Toilet Paper team?

The team that you can wipe your @$$ with...   :D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 16, 2016, 07:58:34 PM
That would be an affront to the dooky.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 16, 2016, 08:30:02 PM
They can re-logo and re-brand and re-invent themselves as much as they want, but they can't escape the fact that they are the "T'Pence" team.

-------------------
So Bernie, besides his book deal, is working on his grass roots progressive movement, and is retaining control of his e-mail list for that purpose.

---------------
Been digging into Johnson's record. Even the people that didn't like him and his goals or methods seemed to respect him as honest, straightforward, a good listener and not one to hold a grudge or make it personal. Also, as evidenced by his hobby of endurance sports- very disciplined.

------------------

[Sleezebag] has been  complaining about being broke until the convention.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2016, 05:28:38 AM
I thought she'd retired, but Lesley Stahl is still among the surviving journalists.

---------------------------

Donald [Sleezebag]’s answer on Mike Pence’s Iraq vote is really something
 By Philip Bump July 17 at 7:26 PM

One section of the first joint interview by the presumptive Republican ticket reveals a great deal about the man at its top.

CBS's Lesley Stahl asked Donald [Sleezebag] if he would send troops to the Middle East to fight the Islamic State. From there, the conversation shifted to the war in Iraq — and the vote Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, the presumptive vice presidential candidate, cast in support of it while he was serving in the House. In fact, Pence spoke in favor of the war from the floor of the House in 2002.

[Sleezebag]'s view of that? Meh.

From CBS's transcript:


DONALD [Sleezebag]: Now look, we are going to get rid of [the Islamic State], big league. And we're going to get rid of 'em fast. And we're going to use surrounding states. We're going to use NATO, probably. And we're going to declare war. It is war. When the World Trade Center comes tumbling down, with thousands of people being killed, people are still— I have friends that are still—

LESLEY STAHL: But we did go to war, if you remember. We went to Iraq.

[Sleezebag]: Yeah, you went to Iraq, but that was handled so badly. And that was a war, by the way, that was a war that we shouldn't have entered because Iraq did not knock down—excuse me...

STAHL: Your running mate—

[Sleezebag]: Iraq did not—

STAHL: —voted for it.

[Sleezebag]: I don't care.

He doesn't care. That's a remarkable comment from [Sleezebag], who's consistently cast his purported opposition to the Iraq War in opposition to Hillary Clinton's vote for it. (More on this in a second.) This, he has repeatedly argued, shows his judgment is superior to the presumptive Democratic nominee — in a number of ways.

But Pence casting the same vote? He doesn't care.

Stahl pressed on it.


STAHL: What do you mean you don't care that he voted for?

[Sleezebag]: It's a long time ago. And he voted that way and they were also misled. A lot of information was given to people...

STAHL: But you’ve harped on this.

[Sleezebag]: But I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning.

STAHL: Yeah, but you’ve used that vote of Hillary's that was the same as Governor Pence as the example of her bad judgment.

[Sleezebag]: Many people have, and frankly, I'm one of the few that was right on Iraq.

This is the point at which we note that the only record of his having an opinion on the war in Iraq before it began was an interview in which he expressed support. Our fact-checkers have been over this repeatedly: There's no evidence he opposed the war before it began. And now, his vice presidential pick is on record in support of it.

[Sleezebag]'s excuse?


STAHL: Yeah, but what about he —?

[Sleezebag]: He's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.

STAHL: But she's not? Okay, come on—

[Sleezebag]: But she's not—

STAHL: She's not?

[Sleezebag]: No. She’s not.

STAHL: Got it.

[Sleezebag] and Stahl chuckled a little at this response, but it seems clear that [Sleezebag] essentially meant it.

"She's virtually done nothing right," [Sleezebag] said during his speech attacking Clinton last month. "She's virtually done nothing good. It all started with her bad judgment in supporting the war in Iraq in the first place."

In [Sleezebag]'s mind, Pence gets a pass on that judgment, rooted in bad intelligence. [Sleezebag] himself gets a pass on not being able to present any evidence that his judgment was any different. Clinton, however, is riddled with bad judgment because of her stance on the issue.

This will cost him zero votes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2016, 07:00:41 PM
...All that and she's unnaturally good-looking, still, for a woman who has to be about 9,000 years old by now...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2016, 07:28:31 PM
Remember how I said that the Starship Enterprise should phazer some Romulans or something?

Right now I'm worried that Cloud will eat dancing Solver. He's kinda daring her, and I really like the guy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2016, 07:41:29 PM
Now I'm tempted to change the avatar to a .gif and have a dying dancing Solver wriggling in her mouth.  -But I'm rather fond of the fellow myself, and sure as I did it, he'd get run over by a bus and I'd feel bad.  I may have to animate her eyes to glance over at him anyway...

I thought this was going to be about what a babe Lesley Stahl is, which is definitely more interesting than trying to hit the high points of what a disgrace to humanity the Pig is...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2016, 07:51:54 PM
Okay, eye animations would be entertaining, and yes, Lesley Stahl is attractive.

Political news is mostly stuff about-

 Who will Hillary pick?

Johnson gaining ground in the polls (13%)

[Sleezebag]/Pence awkwardness

What Jeb Bush thinks, and what everybody else thinks about that.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 18, 2016, 08:10:19 PM
That last being incredibly uninteresting and actually harmful, as the world needs the Bushes -and the Clintons- to go away.  All that stuff we agree on about legacy presidents, and all.  Stop talking about them, idiots, or it's the Pig problem all over again, if not as obvious.  LEARN, for chrissakes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 18, 2016, 11:17:13 PM
The New Yorker did a supportive piece on Johnson, but it's pretty long.-
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/gary-johnson-the-third-party-candidate (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/gary-johnson-the-third-party-candidate)
-------
On the behind the scenes politics and policy front at the Grand Old Party-
http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/07/18/quelle-surprise-donald-trumps-campaign-supports-russian-invasion-ukraine/ (http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/07/18/quelle-surprise-donald-trumps-campaign-supports-russian-invasion-ukraine/)

Quelle Surprise! Donald [Sleezebag]’s Campaign Supports the Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

Posted at 4:00 pm on July 18, 2016 by streiff

If you've been paying attention at all the title was a rhetorical question.


The [Sleezebag] campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces, contradicting the view of almost all Republican foreign policy leaders in Washington.

Throughout the campaign, [Sleezebag] has been dismissive of calls for supporting the Ukraine government as it fights an ongoing Russian-led intervention. [Sleezebag]’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, worked as a lobbyist for the Russian-backed former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych for more than a decade.

Still, Republican delegates at last week’s national security committee platform meeting in Cleveland were surprised when the [Sleezebag] campaign orchestrated a set of events to make sure that the GOP would not pledge to give Ukraine the weapons it has been asking for from the United States.

Inside the meeting, Diana Denman, a platform committee member from Texas who was a Ted Cruz supporter, proposed a platform amendment that would call for maintaining or increasing sanctions against Russia, increasing aid for Ukraine and “providing lethal defensive weapons” to the Ukrainian military.

“Today, the post-Cold War ideal of a ‘Europe whole and free’ is being severely tested by Russia’s ongoing military aggression in Ukraine,” the amendment read. “The Ukrainian people deserve our admiration and support in their struggle.”

[Sleezebag] staffers in the room, who are not delegates but are there to oversee the process, intervened. By working with pro-[Sleezebag] delegates, they were able to get the issue tabled while they devised a method to roll back the language.
 ...
 That amendment was voted on and passed. When the Republican Party releases its platform Monday, the official Republican party position on arms for Ukraine will be at odds with almost all the party’s national security leaders.

“This is another example of [Sleezebag] being out of step with GOP leadership and the mainstream in a way that shows he would be dangerous for America and the world,” said Rachel Hoff, another platform committee member who was in the room.

For any decent person, this should have been a no-brainer on every possible level. Russia is an international troublemaker with no foreign policy larger than instigating crises in the hopes that one of them might present a opportunity that Russia can capitalize on. Russia has harassed US diplomatic staff inside of Russia. It runs a rapacious intelligence service that seems like it resorts to violence out of nothing more than a desire to stay in practice.

Paul Manafort, the alleged Russian mob fixer and Donald [Sleezebag] campaign chairman, has been a lobbyist for people connected to Putin for a decade. While Donald [Sleezebag] is a fanboi of totalitarians, Manafort has made his living by making genocidal lackwits and their like seem respectable. Whether or not Manafort financially benefits from this decision is unknown. What is very well known is that supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not in the best interests of the United States, of the EU, or of NATO.

This, folks, is what you have to look forward to in a Donald [Sleezebag] presidency: foreign policy devoid of pragmatism or principle but perhaps with a nice, tidy profit involved.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 19, 2016, 12:37:48 AM
Here's one about Hillary-

https://theintercept.com/2016/07/18/hillary-clintons-citizens-united-pledge-doesnt-matter-her-small-donor-matching-pledge-definitely-does/


Hillary Clinton’s Citizens United Pledge Doesn’t Matter; Her Small-Donor Matching Pledge Definitely Does


Jon Schwarz
July 18 2016, 2:02 p.m.

This weekend, Hillary Clinton released a video in which she made specific commitments to reform the U.S. campaign finance system. Unfortunately, she put the least important parts first and the most important part last:


Today I’m announcing that in my first 30 days as president, I will propose a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United and give the American people, all of us, the chance to reclaim our democracy. I will also appoint Supreme Court justices who understand that this decision was a disaster for our democracy. And I will fight for other progressive reforms including small dollar matching and disclosure requirements.

Presidents play essentially no role in amending the Constitution. Any amendment Clinton proposed would have to be passed by a two-thirds majority in both the House and Senate, and then would have to be ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the states.

That’s never going to happen. The U.S. has amended the Constitution just once in the past 45 years, with the non-earthshaking 27th Amendment prohibiting Congress from voting itself a pay raise that takes effect before the next election. (Moreover, the 27th Amendment was submitted to the states in 1789; it then took 203 years for three-fourths of the states to ratify it in 1992.)

So Clinton’s constitutional amendment pledge is empty grandstanding. Citizens United will either be overturned by the Supreme Court, or it will remain law.

On the other hand, Clinton’s pledge to “fight” for small-donor matching funds is genuinely important. Over the past several years, almost all Democrats in the House and many in the Senate have signed on in support of the idea, and it would change the dynamics of money in politics in a way that even overturning Citizens United would not.

The concept is straightforward: Small donations to candidates for Congress or president would be matched by public funds at some high ratio.

A bill introduced by Rep. John Sarbanes, D-Md., would match donations up to $150 at a ratio of 6-to-1. So if your neighbor were running for Congress and you donated $50 to her campaign, she would receive an additional $300, for a total of $350.

Even better, if candidates completely renounce taking any donation over $150, Sarbanes’s law would increase the matching ratio to 9-to-1. So if your neighbor were running a campaign fueled purely by small donors, and you gave $50, she’d receive an additional $450, for a total of $500.

As Sarbanes explained in an interview last year, this would make it more valuable for a representative to attend a house party in his or her district with 30 small-donor constituents than to attend a K Street fundraiser.

Small-donor matching funds would also make a huge difference in presidential politics. Bernie Sanders would have out-raised Clinton almost 2-to-1 in the 2016 Democratic primary with such a system. Moreover, the extra money from small-donor matching would have swamped the money available from Super PACs for both Democrats and Republicans.

So if Clinton is elected next year, don’t judge her commitment to changing big money politics by her pledge on Citizens United. Look at whether she puts real political capital behind making small-donor matching funds a reality.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 19, 2016, 05:41:54 AM
One about the floor fight at [Sleezebag]'s Coronati- er Convention.

I tried to explain this one to my wife. I came from a closed primary state, and she came from an open primary state. She'd say I don't understand why Colorado walked out, and I'd explain some more.  Finally she said -

"So the law and order guy ([Sleezebag]) doesn't want to play by the rules."

Exactly so!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/politics/rnc-procedural-votes-rules-committee/)





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 19, 2016, 08:12:39 AM
Okay, I never saw this one coming-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/melania-T rump-republican-convention-speech-plagiarism/87278088/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/melania-T rump-republican-convention-speech-plagiarism/87278088/)

Here's the excerpt from Obama in 2008:




"And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them.

"And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and to pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."

And here's the passage from T rump's remarks Monday night that came under scrutiny:




“From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect.

They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son. And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”

IT GETS WORSE-

Matt Lauer was on the plane with the royal couple beforehand, and he asked her is she was nervous about her speech later tonight, and had she been rehearsing? Her answer was that she only read it once, because she wrote it herself.

Well, I can only conclude that she is Michelle Obama's speech writer, and is secretly a dirty Democrat.

I suppose the alternative explanation is that she is a liar, which casts suspicion on the part where she said Donald wasn't prejudiced against Moslems or Mexicans.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2016, 12:51:34 PM
I take it we're talking about the current Mrs. Pig ripping off Mrs. Obama?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 19, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
As eye-rollingly pathetic and amateur as it is for Melania (or her speechwriter) to have plagiarized Michelle, Republicans ain't gonna care. "Oh, Melania stole some lines? Well Obama stole our country/jobs/the presidency!"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 19, 2016, 01:26:38 PM
Obama?  pfft.  That's not all she lifted. 

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtzdP7mR-4#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2016, 01:41:42 PM
I daresay Mrs. Obama is a model first lady -in the sense of being a perfect politician's wife- so, makes sense to imitate the best...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 19, 2016, 02:30:34 PM
Obama?  pfft.  That's not all she lifted. 

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KtzdP7mR-4#)


Lord and Lady, that's sick!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 19, 2016, 04:32:29 PM
If I were a political cartoonist, I think I'd be going with Brian Williams saying he was there when Milania wrote Michelle Obama's speech in 2008.

This incident is a constant source of amusement to me. It takes me back to my time as a salesman, and the old joke-

"The most important thing is sincerity."
- "And if you can fake that, ..."


To be honest, I had difficulty understanding her speech. Our central air went out yesterday, and I had to put portable units in until we could get a repair guy here. Turned out to be capacitors, easy fix.

But with my hearing, her accent, and the added noise, I couldn't follow it all. When I heard her talking about how Donald wasn't prejudiced against Moslems or Mexicans, I lost my composure. Then when the NBC panel started gushing over her and the speech, I thought I was in a an alternative universe.

I had a [FLASHBACK] to when Henry Hyde and the House of Representatives had impeached Bill Clinton, and Clinton made a televised speech, and Pat Robertson said something to the effect of, well, we can't impeach him now, that speech was a home run! That was the tone of the reactions from various Republicans.

WHAT?! It was just a speech. Clinton's good at speeches. That's why he is president. Either he committed perjury, or he didn't. Either the law applies to everybody, or it doesn't. Either perjury matters,  or the new standard is it's okay to do it to protect yourself and your family and our justice system is unraveling.  But nobody said that... and I knew that the charges were purely political and they were dealing in perceptions. [/END FLASHBACK]

So a pretty woman made a pretty speech. Saying something doesn't make it so, as much as The Donald might wish ISIS to cease to exist because he is president.



I said there wouldn't be anything to see at this convention, and I didn't intend to watch unless Donald rode in atop a live elephant. Now I can't wait to see the second act of the comedy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 19, 2016, 06:49:13 PM
Now I can't wait to see the second act of the comedy.

I do have to admit to liking T rump as a candidate, though.  We need more comic relief in these things, and he's the closest thing we could get to Colbert (in character) running.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 19, 2016, 06:54:16 PM
Apocalyptic satire with mushroom clouds as rimshots...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 19, 2016, 06:57:56 PM
Funny is highly subjective...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 20, 2016, 12:11:43 AM
Hey, it's funny to us Aussies watching you all squirm over T rump.   ;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2016, 12:49:57 AM
Now I must Bruce this thread in revenge...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Dale on July 20, 2016, 01:09:46 AM
Now I must Bruce this thread in revenge...


Russell Coight is more Aussie than anyone else....

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB55VG3PUYQ#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on July 20, 2016, 01:35:47 AM
I cannot believe Bernie Sanders endorsed the crooked Hillary Clinton!!! :(
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2016, 01:47:05 AM
I can.  Seriously; consider the alternative.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 20, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
On the entertainment front-

* NBC did an analysis which showed that the convention talked more about Hillary than [Sleezebag].

* Chris Christie said, "It's a binary choice- chicken or fish."
 I said " Where's the beef?"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2016, 06:19:32 PM
In what context was he speaking?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 20, 2016, 06:59:51 PM
In what context was he speaking?

The ballot choice between [Sleezebag] and Hillary in a floor interview after his speech. I may have prefaced my remark with an exclamation about organic fertilizer of bovine origin. That is so rare an occurrence on my part, that I can't recall in what year it last happened.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 20, 2016, 08:47:05 PM
Funny; I was talking at lunch to my wimminz about just exactly the thing he did in saying that -False Equivalence.  It's assault and battery on the truth of an intensity approaching attempted murder.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 20, 2016, 09:15:22 PM
Christie usually rubs me the wrong way, and not just because he's from Jersey and I'm from PA.
It's the gap in the authoritarian-libertarian spectrum. Of course Jersey was Tory colony anyway...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 20, 2016, 10:17:26 PM
http://reason.com/reasontv/2016/07/15/are-republicans-or-democrats-more-anti-s (http://reason.com/reasontv/2016/07/15/are-republicans-or-democrats-more-anti-s)

Are Republicans or Democrats More Anti-Science?

Reason TV talks with California progressives about what happens when science meets politics.

Zach Weissmueller, Justin Monticello & Joshua Swain | July 15, 2016

It's popular to portray the GOP as the anti-science party and Democrats as the sane, "party of science" alternative.  And only 6 percent of scientists identified as Republicans, according to a 2009 Pew Research poll, which seems to be the most recent one on the topic. But the truth is that when science and politics meet, the result often isn't pretty, regardless of partisan affiliation.

Reason TV asked locals in Venice, California about their thoughts on various scientific policy questions and compared their answers to public opinion poll data. We found that many people favored mandatory labeling of food that contains DNA, the stuff of life contained in just about every morsel of fruit, vegetable, grain, or meat humans consume. Yet a recent survey out of the University of Florida found that 80 percent of respondents favor mandatory DNA labeling, only slightly below the 85 percent that favor labeling of genetically modified organisms (GMOs). While Republicans are divided evenly on the GMO question, Democrats rate them unsafe by a 26-point margin, despite almost 2,000 studies spanning a decade saying otherwise.

Republicans are more skeptical of the theory of evolution, though by a surprisingly slim margin with 39 percent of them rejecting it as compared to 30 percent of Democrats. When it comes to other scientific matters, the waters are even muddier. For instance, Democrats and Republicans believe in the false link between vaccines and autism at roughly equal levels.




And it's largely liberal Democratic politicians pushing anti-vaping laws, despite public health agencies estimating e-cigarettes to be around 95% safer than conventional tobacco cigarettes and early evidence they help smokers quit. And vaping products don't contain any tobacco or its resultant tar, yet the FDA still wants to treat them as tobacco products.

The big science policy issue of the day, though, seems to be global warming. Sixty-four percent of Democrats believe in man-made global warming, while only 22 percent of Republicans do. But when it comes to realistic solutions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Democrats still aren't always science-minded.

Only 45 percent of Democrats support expanding the use of nuclear energy, as compared to 62 percent of Republicans, despite the fact that except for Chernobyl, not a single person, including nuclear workers, has ever died due to a commercial nuclear reactor accident.

Burning natural gas extracted through fracking is cleaner than oil or gasoline, and far more economically viable than non-nuclear renewable sources. And it emits half as much carbon dioxide, less than one-third the nitrogen oxides, and 1 percent as much sulfur oxides as coal combustion.

The ongoing switch from coal to natural gas to generate electricity is a primary driver of the reduction in U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by half a billion tons over the last decade, according to the EPA, which also has found no systemic evidence that fracking contaminates water tables. The U.S. Geological Survey found that fracking can cause "extremely small earthquakes, but they are almost always too small to be a safety concern," though larger earthquakes can result when operations dispose of wastewater by injecting it deep into the ground.

So maybe it's not that Republicans are dumber than Democrats when it comes to science, or the other way around, but that both sides have blind spots when data-based evidence contradicts their political preferences.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 21, 2016, 03:10:50 AM
As eye-rollingly pathetic and amateur as it is for Melania (or her speechwriter) to have plagiarized Michelle, Republicans ain't gonna care. "Oh, Melania stole some lines? Well Obama stole our country/jobs/the presidency!"



A different take of the plagerized speech thing...

Starting with A tale of two cities and then slamming into Dr. Seuss... Some William Wallace...

F...ing Funny as H3ll...

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1wctQNKRM #)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 21, 2016, 06:06:31 AM
This is a long repetitive piece. They failed to report the most important thing Cruz said - "Candidates that support the Constitution"

I was surprised that Cruz was going to speak at all, after the way that [Sleezebag] insulted his wife and blamed his dad for assassinating JFK, because [Sleezebag] never apologizes.

They also failed to report the cheers and applause Cruz got at the same time others were booing him.

Chris Christie was ridiculing Cruz for not fulfilling his pledge to support the eventual nominee. But I have to respect Cruz as one of the increasingly few who believe that never [Sleezebag] means never [Sleezebag].

****

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/politics/ted-cruz-republican-convention-moment/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/20/politics/ted-cruz-republican-convention-moment/)

Cruz booed


Teddy Schleifer
Stephen Collinson Profile

By Theodore Schleifer and Stephen Collinson, CNN
Updated 12:16 AM ET, Thu July 21, 2016


Cleveland (CNN) — Ted Cruz sensationally withheld an endorsement of Donald [Sleezebag] at the Republican National Convention Wednesday, earning a chorus of boos from the floor before he was upstaged in a power play by the GOP nominee himself.

In a dramatic development, as Cruz wrapped up his speech, [Sleezebag] suddenly appeared in the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland. He walked to join his family in a VIP area and flashed a thumbs-up -- a gesture that transmitted clear anger at the Texas senator's behavior.

Cruz, his party's runner-up, uttered [Sleezebag]'s name just once -- to congratulate him -- and instead pitched the ideological brand of conservatism that endears him to the GOP's base.

"I congratulate Donald [Sleezebag] on winning the nomination last night," Cruz said. "And like each of you, I want to see the principles that our party believes prevail in November."

But as it was clear Cruz was going to end his speech without endorsing [Sleezebag], delegates began to boo and some chanted "We want [Sleezebag]!"


"Don't stay home in November," Cruz said toward the end of his otherwise very well-received speech. "Stand and speak and vote your conscience."

As delegates began to protest, Sen. Cruz's wife, Heidi Cruz, was heckled by [Sleezebag] supporters shouting "Goldman Sachs!" and escorted out by security. Heidi Cruz, who is an employee of Goldman Sachs, declined to answer questions from reporters, saying, "I don't talk to the media, thanks."

The stunning political theater between the top two contenders in the Republican primary race blew open divisions in the party that the convention is designed to heal, and suggested Cruz believes [Sleezebag] will lose in November.

Cruz's appearance at the Cleveland convention had been the subject of intense anticipation over his attitude toward [Sleezebag], after their intensely personal exchanges in the late stages of the primary race.

He got a prolonged standing ovation as he walked on stage for a speech that appeared to be an attempt to establish himself as the guardian of conservative values that some activists doubt [Sleezebag] shares.

Cruz's rebuke ignited a hot scene around the senator as soon as he left the stage. People averted their eyes from Cruz and his wife as they walked with their security detail on the skybox level of boisterous Republicans.

On the donor suite level, people approached Cruz and insulted him, a source told CNN's Dana Bash. One state party chairman reacted so angrily that he had to be restrained.

Cruz, who has long sought the support of GOP megadonor Sheldon Adelson, was turned away when he tried to enter Adelson's suite after the rebuke, three sources tell CNN.

[Sleezebag], whose insults of Cruz were a constant on the campaign trail over the past year, tweeted that Cruz didn't honor the pledge GOP candidates had signed to back the eventual Republican nominee.

"Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage, didn't honor the pledge! I saw his speech two hours early but let him speak anyway. No big deal!"




Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage, didn't honor the pledge! I saw his speech two hours early but let him speak anyway. No big deal!
— Donald J. [Sleezebag] (@realDonaldTrump) July 21, 2016
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie -- a former presidential candidate and now a [Sleezebag] backer -- blasted Cruz's speech in an interview with Bash.


realDonaldTrump) July 21, 2016

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie -- a former presidential candidate and now a [Sleezebag] backer -- blasted Cruz's speech in an interview with Bash.



CNN Politics app
"I think it was awful," Christie said. "And quite frankly, I think it was something selfish. And he signed a pledge. And it's his job to keep his word."

A source close to Cruz said the senator wasn't shocked by the mood after the speech.

"He expected people to not approve," the source said. "Not surprised at the reaction."

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence, who accepted the nomination as [Sleezebag]'s vice presidential nominee at the end of Wednesday's session, sidestepped when asked about Cruz's speech.

"I am just grateful for all the support we are receiving and I am excited about the future," Pence said.

Eric [Sleezebag]'s reaction: "The audience didn't seem to like it right?"

Asked about the impact of the non-endorsement, Eric [Sleezebag] responded, "I don't think it makes any difference in the world."

Hillary Clinton's campaign seized on Cruz's speech as well, tweeting: "Vote your conscience" with a link to her website.




Vote your conscience. https://t.co/xahMq2sU1q (https://t.co/xahMq2sU1q)
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) July 21, 2016
Cleveland (CNN) — Ted Cruz sensationally withheld an endorsement of Donald [Sleezebag] at the Republican National Convention Wednesday, earning a chorus of boos from the floor before he was upstaged in a power play by the GOP nominee himself.

In a dramatic development, as Cruz wrapped up his speech, [Sleezebag] suddenly appeared in the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland. He walked to join his family in a VIP area and flashed a thumbs-up -- a gesture that transmitted clear anger at the Texas senator's behavior.

Cruz, his party's runner-up, uttered [Sleezebag]'s name just once -- to congratulate him -- and instead pitched the ideological brand of conservatism that endears him to the GOP's base.

"I congratulate Donald [Sleezebag] on winning the nomination last night," Cruz said. "And like each of you, I want to see the principles that our party believes prevail in November."

But as it was clear Cruz was going to end his speech without endorsing [Sleezebag], delegates began to boo and some chanted "We want [Sleezebag]!"


"Don't stay home in November," Cruz said toward the end of his otherwise very well-received speech. "Stand and speak and vote your conscience."

As delegates began to protest, Sen. Cruz's wife, Heidi Cruz, was heckled by [Sleezebag] supporters shouting "Goldman Sachs!" and escorted out by security. Heidi Cruz, who is an employee of Goldman Sachs, declined to answer questions from reporters, saying, "I don't talk to the media, thanks."

The stunning political theater between the top two contenders in the Republican primary race blew open divisions in the party that the convention is designed to heal, and suggested Cruz believes [Sleezebag] will lose in November.

Cruz's appearance at the Cleveland convention had been the subject of intense anticipation over his attitude toward [Sleezebag], after their intensely personal exchanges in the late stages of the primary race.


Delegates unhappy as well: 'He failed the nation'

The reaction from the floor was also swift and harsh.

Newt Gingrich, appearing after Cruz, argued that Cruz's advocacy for constitutionalism meant that he, implicitly, endorsed [Sleezebag] -- words he himself did not say.

"So to paraphrase Ted Cruz, if you want to protect the Constitution this fall, there's only one possible way and that's to vote the [Sleezebag]-Pence ticket."

Richard Black, a delegate from Virginia who chaired Cruz's campaign, said after Cruz's speech that it was "doubtful" he would support him again.

"In the end, each individual has a duty to the nation that transcends the duty to themselves,' Black said. "That's where he failed... He failed the nation."

Rep. Trent Franks of Arizona, who backed Cruz, told CNN he was "disappointed" by Cruz' speech.

On him saying "vote your conscience", Franks said, "for the people in this room, a vote of conscience is a [Sleezebag] vote."

Michigan GOP Rep. Bill Huizenga, a former Marco Rubio supporter, called Cruz' speech "a mistake."

Huizenga said it was also a mistake for the [Sleezebag] campaign to give Cruz a coveted prime-time speaking slot without some type of "pre-condition" that he would formally endorse [Sleezebag].

Jonathan Barnett, a Republican national committeeman from Arkansas, walked off the floor after Cruz's speech.

"He's self-centered. It's all about Ted Cruz. All he did is ruin his political career," Barnett said. "I think he's finished."

Barnett said this is not the kind of grace one shows their party's nominee: "Reagan wouldn't have done that. He endorsed Ford."

Arizona delegate Bruce Ash expressed a similar sentiment.

"Cruz missed his moment. All he had to do was say '[Sleezebag]' and he used the dog whistle for 'conscience.' A very disappointing message," Ash texted.


Cruz's difficult challenge

The speech was difficult from the start: Cruz's goal was to walk a tightrope and keep alive his political viability for 2020 without alienating [Sleezebag]'s legion of supporters.




























Related Video: [Sleezebag]'s plane interrupts Ted Cruz 00:55

It was the latter that tripped him up.

Cruz came to the dais facing significant pressure to endorse [Sleezebag] from his campaign aides and surrogates. Yet he is still at a moment of power and relevance: Only 45, a Latino senator who ended his campaign holding onto more political capital than he has ever enjoyed in his career.

His challenge was to remain well-liked in a GOP that, at least for now, is under the control of a man Cruz has indicated that he does not respect. Cruz effectively placed a risky bet that the Republican Party will judge [Sleezebag] harshly and reward him in the new era for not caving.

"If skillfully played, his stock will rise," Randall Dunning, a Texas delegate who has misgivings about [Sleezebag], said the day before he spoke.

Wes Brumit, a Cruz delegate from Texas, defended Cruz's non-endorsement Wednesday night.

"He did mention all the points [Sleezebag] mentioned: building a wall, fighting ISIS. He just didn't come right out and endorse," said Bumit, who sported a red "Ted Cruz for President" T-shirt and a cowboy hat. "He said everyone should be able to vote their conscience. And that's OK with me."

As for those who loudly booed Cruz? "All the boos were exactly the New York values that Ted has talked about."

Bumit added: "I think Mr. [Sleezebag] has some things to apologize for to Cruz before Sen Cruz can come onboard fully for [Sleezebag]."

But the question now is how skillful Cruz played it. If [Sleezebag] loses narrowly, holdouts like Cruz could be held responsible in 2020 for not unifying the party. And it is clear there are [Sleezebag] loyalists who now say they are loathe to back him.

Cruz and [Sleezebag], once political allies, turned on one another as they became the top two Republicans in the race. And their tension exploded when [Sleezebag]'s associates fanned flames of salacious tabloid rumors about Cruz and later attacked Cruz's father.


Since withdrawing from the race, Cruz has repeatedly declined to endorse [Sleezebag], but maintained that he could always come around to backing the Republican nominee. Yet their past tension -- and the personal attacks -- cast a cloud over any accord between the two aspirants.

Cruz's chief strategist Jason Johnson tweeted: "Since it's obvious the shock is contrived, let me ask: What the Hell did they expect from the son of the man who killed JFK? Light'n up."




Since it's obvious the shock is contrived, let me ask: What the Hell did they expect from the son of the man who killed JFK? Light'n up.
— Jason Johnson (@jasonsjohnson) July 21, 2016
Former Cruz aide Brian Phillips also defended the senator: "Just more proof this is about submission. We were told for months [Sleezebag] didn't need Cruz, but when he doesn't endorse they go apoplectic."




Just more proof this is about submission. We were told for months [Sleezebag] didn't need Cruz, but when he doesn't endorse they go apoplectic.
— Brian Phillips (@RealBPhil) July 21, 2016
The remarkable moment at the convention was the second time Cruz was upstaged by [Sleezebag] Wednesday.

At a rally on the Cleveland waterfront, as Cruz spoke gingerly to fellow Republicans about "our nominee" and the uncertain future under his former rival, [Sleezebag]'s plane flew in the clear skies behind him.

"That was pretty well orchestrated" Cruz said as the [Sleezebag]-emblazoned aircraft buzzed through the air and the crowd booed.

Turning to his campaign manager, Jeff Roe, Cruz said, "Jeff, did you email them to fly the plane right when I said that?"

CNN's Dana Bash, Jeremy Diamond, MJ Lee, Deirdre Walsh, Manu Raju and Katie Hinman contributed to this report.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 21, 2016, 07:48:28 AM
Cruz should have endorsed Johnson, that would have shaken up the Grand 'Ol Party really good...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on July 21, 2016, 04:29:25 PM
What vortex did the Hillary disappear into over the last few weeks? Why do we have to hear the political blather from the air head politicians and media? Why do some people explicitly support corruption? ???
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 21, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
She's not wasting time trying to fight a losing attention-battle she'd lose this week.  She'll have a turn, the Pig will try to spoil, alas, but going second with convention week coverage is a huge advantage.  She probably desperately needs the rest of a light-duty week in preparation.

The rest would go under people in general being no darn good...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 21, 2016, 09:50:31 PM
What vortex did the Hillary disappear into over the last few weeks? Why do we have to hear the political blather from the air head politicians and media? Why do some people explicitly support corruption? ???

Eh, I get 5-6 commercials from her every hour.  All the news stations just keep going back to her snarky twitter posts every 5 minutes (and there are not too many of them, so it is getting kinda dull hearing the same thing over and over).  She is definitely out there and doing a lot. 

Next week she will be even more in the spotlight as her team has their convention.  Expect a lot more politicians to be giving speeches then.  And, expect the media to basically pick apart the RNC's snarky comments instead of parading them around like the second coming. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 21, 2016, 10:14:12 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/politics/gary-johnson-ted-cruz/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/politics/gary-johnson-ted-cruz/)

Gary Johnson: Cruz did say to vote for Gary Johnson, didn't he?
By Eugene Scott, CNN
Updated 4:04 PM ET, Thu July 21, 2016

Washington (CNN) — Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson said Thursday that Ted Cruz's call to "vote your conscience" essentially encouraged people to support the former New Mexico governor.

"He did say to vote for Gary Johnson, didn't he? And that was 'vote your conscience,'" he told CNN's Chris Cuomo on "New Day." "I certainly would uphold the Constitution."

On Wednesday, Cruz upset many Republican National Convention attendees when he refused to endorse the party's nominee, Donald [Sleezebag], and told the crowd to "vote your conscience."

Johnson is just polling points from being able to appear on the presidential debate stages this fall.

"Thirteen percent in the polls. Oh my gosh. Looks like we're going to get in the presidential debate," he said. "Keeping in mind, just in the last six weeks, 13% is double what it was just six weeks ago."

Johnson said he thinks he'll get the 15% needed to make the debate stage because there's a lot of interest in him and his vice presidential nominee Bill Weld because of dissatisfaction with Donald [Sleezebag]. A candidate must reach 15% in five polls selected by the Commission on Presidential Debates to participate in debates.

"I think Donald [Sleezebag] alienates more than half of the Republicans," he said.

Johnson, who was speaking in Cleveland, said Republicans have repeatedly stopped him to express support for him.

"Like 1,000 people. Amazing. And not one single jab. You'd think I'd get a poke. At least one poke," he said. "Amazing. Really. Unbelievable. You would have figured a couple of 'Hey what are you doing?'"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on July 21, 2016, 11:08:48 PM
I wish the politicians would discuss important issues that effect people on the ground, yet I realize the president possesses a paucity of power in a divided government. The people who have a real influence on the daily lives of the citizens remains the local politicians because these politicians determine local economic climates and the composition of public morality in a community.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on July 22, 2016, 03:18:27 AM
The [Sleezebag] NATO comments are disturbing...

Love to see someone actually address that, but the RNC joke is too big a news hog. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 22, 2016, 05:11:27 AM
The T rump NATO comments are disturbing...

Love to see someone actually address that, but the RNC joke is too big a news hog.

I agree, I'll check into the articles about it next.

I've watched a lot of conventions ( admittedly most more than this one ) and I can't think of one where the opponent was mentioned so often. Normally parties are mentioned a lot because it's about our team vs. theirs. But this one is all about Donald vs. Hillary and Washington. It's not about the team, and  it's not about the GOP agenda, and I don't see how this helps to hold seats, much less gain them in both houses of congress, or governor's or mayor's  offices for that matter.

Granted, it's overdue for this party to splinter, and I'm all in favor of it, but it's sad to see the way it's being done. Also, because of all the selfless time, effort and cash donated by so many hard working people of the decades has come to this.

My wife was never a foot soldier & lieutenant  in the party, or a candidate like I was, but she was such a dedicated Republican that she paid to attend a G.W. Bush rally. We were talking tonight about G.W Bush saying he is sad thinking he will be the last of the Republican Presidents. I said that this was sad because it is a hostile takeover, and now [Sleezebag] is in the process of taking it apart. She said she hopes the Libertarians get established so that we'll always have a 3rd choice.

 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 22, 2016, 05:45:03 AM
-bipartisan-condemnation-nato-comments/story?id=40774526]http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-bipartisan-condemnation-nato-comments/story?id=40774526 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

Donald [Sleezebag] Gets Bipartisan Condemnation for NATO Comments
By ALI ROGIN
Jul 21, 2016, 9:08 PM ET

Republican presidential candidate Donald [Sleezebag] drew swift rebukes from both ends of the political spectrum, as well as from NATO’s top official, for his declaration that, if he is president, the United States will defend fellow NATO countries only if the countries in question were contributing their fair share to NATO’s budget.

“We’re talking about countries that are doing very well. Then yes, I would be absolutely prepared to tell those countries, ‘Congratulations, you will be defending yourself,’” [Sleezebag] said during an interview with The New York Times, adding that he would defend only countries that had “fulfilled their obligations to us” financially.

In an interview with the New York Times, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell called [Sleezebag]'s comments a "rookie mistake."

“I am willing to kind of chalk it up to a rookie mistake,” he said. “I don’t think there is anybody he would choose to be secretary of defense or secretary of state who would have a different view from my own.”

Two additional Senate Republicans, neither of whom is attending this week’s Republican National Convention, condemned his comments, suggesting Congress would not follow his lead on the issue if he is commander-in-chief.

“As [Russian President Vladimir] Putin revives Soviet-style aggression and the threat of violent Islam looms over European and American cities, the United States stands with our NATO allies,” Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., one of the most vocal elected officials in the never-[Sleezebag] movement, said in a statement.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., one of [Sleezebag]’s former Republican primary opponents, accused him of appeasing the Russian president with his assertions.

“I can only imagine how our allies in NATO, particularly the Balkan states, must feel after reading these comments from Mr. [Sleezebag]. I’m 100 percent certain how Russian President Putin feels — he’s a very happy man,” Graham said.

“If Mr. [Sleezebag] is serious about wanting to be commander-in-chief, he needs to better understand the job, which is to provide leadership for the United States and the free world,” Graham continued, also calling for [Sleezebag] to “correct” his statements during his prime-time address Thursday evening.

Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, a former Air Force pilot, told ABC News he was deeply disturbed by [Sleezebag]'s comments about NATO.

"To protect American first you have to have strong alliances," he said. "This alliance has prevented 60 years of war."

[Sleezebag]'s comments, Kinzinger added, were "ridiculous and reckless," and suggest that [Sleezebag] doesn't understand foreign policy.

Members of the Democratic Party also slammed [Sleezebag]’s remarks, accusing him of friendliness with the same unsavory leaders with whom Republicans have accused President Barack Obama of being too conciliatory.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest noted that Republicans have long accused Obama of going on a “global apology tour.”

“I guess that means that there is some irony associated with the case that’s being made by the Republican nominee at this point,” Earnest said.

Hillary Clinton’s campaign condemned [Sleezebag]’s remarks, also accusing him of cozying up to Putin.

“Over the course of this campaign, [Sleezebag] has displayed a bizarre and occasionally obsequious fascination with Russia’s strongman, Vladimir Putin. And he has policy positions — and advisers — to match,” Clinton senior policy adviser Jake Sullivan said, citing a Washington Post report that [Sleezebag] staffers persuaded convention delegates to strip language from the GOP platform that would have called for “providing lethal defensive weapons” to the Ukrainian military.

The White House has declined to provide Ukraine with lethal weapons, but mainstream Republicans have long called for the president to do so.

“Just this week, we learned that the [Sleezebag] campaign went to great lengths to remove a plank from the GOP platform about aid to Ukraine that would have offended Putin, bucking a strongly held position within his own party ... It is fair to assume that Vladimir Putin is rooting for a [Sleezebag] presidency.”

Kingzinger, who isn't sure if he'll support [Sleezebag] and has frequently criticized [Sleezebag]'s foreign policy pronouncements, called the platform change "curious for sure."

Although NATO does not frequently comment on issues related to member nations’ domestic politics, Jens Stoltenberg, NATO’s secretary-general, weighed in on [Sleezebag]’s comments, defending European allies’ contributions to NATO while avoiding commenting on the election directly.

“European allies are also stepping up,” he said. “For the first time in many years, defense spending among European allies and Canada rose last year.”

Secretary of State John Kerry was also pulled in to the fracas Thursday, fielding a question about [Sleezebag]'s comments at a press conference at the State Department.

Prefacing his comments by saying he wasn't making a statement about the presidential race, Kerry said he would restate American policy towards NATO.

"This administration, like every administration Republican and Democrat alike since 1949, remains fully committed to the NATO alliance and to our security commitments under Article 5, which is absolutely bedrock to our membership and to our partnership with NATO."

[Sleezebag] was also questioned about Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's response to the failed military coup, and told the New York Times that the United States has "a lot of problems."

"Our nominee is making the same arguments you hear in Russian propaganda and that you hear from left-wing liberals," Kinzinger said of [Sleezebag]'s criticisms.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2016, 01:35:06 PM
We were talking tonight about G.W Bush saying he is sad thinking he will be the last of the Republican Presidents.
He should definitely be sad, but this is not why. ;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 22, 2016, 08:36:52 PM
An alphabetical  comparison compiled from Politifact, for what it's worth. I say for what it's worth because a lot depends on how many true statements they choose to evaluate, as that affects the overall number upon which the % is based. Does that mean they checked the true claims because they sounded dubious?

 Politician /True/ Mostly True/ Half True/ Mostly False / False / Pants on Fire



Clinton  52(23%)/ 62(28%) / 48 (22%) / 33 (15%) / 25 (11%)  /3 (1%)

Cruz 7(6%)/ 18(16%)/ 15(13%)/ 35(31%)/ 31(27%)/ 8(7%)

Johnson 0 (0%)/ 4(40%)/ 3(30%)/ 2( 20%)/ 1(10%)/ 0 (0%)

Obama 121(21%)/ 159(27%) /157 (27%) / 69 (12%)/ 71 (12%) /9 ( 2%)

Ryan 9(15%)/ 12(20%)/ 13(22%)/ 18(30%)/ 6(10%)/ 2(3%)

Sanders 14(14%) / 39(38%) / 20 (19%)/ 18(17%)/ 12(12%) / 0 (0%)

Jill Stein hasn't even appeared in the database.

[Sleezebag] 8(4%) / 19(10%) / 31( 16%) / 32(16%) / 75(38%) / 34 (17%)





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 22, 2016, 09:20:33 PM
As eye-rollingly pathetic and amateur as it is for Melania (or her speechwriter) to have plagiarized Michelle, Republicans ain't gonna care. "Oh, Melania stole some lines? Well Obama stole our country/jobs/the presidency!"



A different take of the plagerized speech thing...

Starting with A tale of two cities and then slamming into Dr. Seuss... Some William Wallace...

F...ing Funny as H3ll...

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh1wctQNKRM #)


It took some time to get a quiet house so that I could listen to this... it was hilarious. Thank you!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 22, 2016, 09:37:17 PM
Rusty, I'd sure love to hear more about this being a lieutenant and a candidate...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2016, 01:08:26 AM
I think I already covered most of it.

I was always political. I was also a family farmer. When I graduated high school, I was sick of regimentation - doing the same thing everyday with the same people in the same place. Actually, I was tired of high school from about 10 AM on the first day of 10th grade. I wasn't ready for summer to be over, and I had this feeling I was serving time. The bell rings and we march. I guess the problem was that most kids needed more repetition of the content than I did. At that time my memory was much like yours, if I read something or wrote down notes, I could remember most of it for years. So college was out. I hated being indoors so much.

So, the county fair occurred the week after my 18th birthday and I registered and volunteered to help man the booth, which was mostly registering voters, passing out brochures, and introducing voters to candidates who happened to be there, which could get complicated according to gerrymandering. But it was also a chance to socialize with other party people.

Also, when I was in high school I made up my mind to run for school board, because the quotes in the newspaper indicated that some of the sitting board members were out of touch and needed to hear a fresh perspective.  So I asked my twp chairwoman to help me get on the ballot, and she agreed to circulate my petitions. That was a way for her to talk to people about me, and she liked what she heard. I was cross-filed as both a Republican and a Democrat, because schoolboard was considered non-partisan. I lost on both tickets in the primary, but did well enough to get some attention, probably mostly people from my congregation.

But me and the precinct woman, Gloria, became friends. She was a grandmother and knew everybody. She was also a workhorse for the party in the school district. She loved to talk, but she wasn't in good health, so I got some of the leg work, like putting up and taking down signs. I could only do that in the evenings after the field and barn work was done, sometimes in the dark, but I did id, and apparently well enough to get the attention of the chairman of the county commissioners, who was an attorney, originally with the Federal Maritime Commission in DC.

There was an annual banquet at the Elk's club, and I would attend, and Gloria and the commissioner would introduce me to people. Maybe they'd ask me what I thought about a particular issue, it was interesting. The Governor or a Senator would keynote. Sometimes it was a Congressman. Mostly state legislators. Funny, the politicians were always friendlier when they planning and preparing for advancement, or facing redistricting after a census. I think I met Rick Santorum when he was a College Republican.

I particularly liked Tom Ridge. I met him when he was the only Viet Vet in Congress  who served as an enlisted man rather than an ROTC guy. Ridge was a sergeant. Later he was governor of PA, and the first Director of Homeland Security. Maybe because he was hearing impaired  ( from the war), but he was probably the best listener ever. He gave you his total attention. On the other end of the spectrum was a kiss axe Assembly of God cultural conservative state legislator.

That really solidified my views about honesty and sincerity in candidates and weasel lawyers, and why I can't stand Hillary because she reminds me of the people that are attracted to politics out of personal ambition rather than a sense of duty or a desire to fix something

Anyway when somebody retired, I was asked to run for schoolboard and I won. Gloria had to go for heart surgery at one point and I wound up picking up the slack. I recruited a couple of people to run for local office like auditor. I was a poll watcher, which meant that I checked people off of a list, as the voted and went home about 5 to get on the phone and motivate the no-show Republicans. People fall into habitual time slots.

What else? Oh there were parties in the evening after the polls closed, usually the congressman rented a hotel conference room, but it would be for the whole party. Those tv lights are brutally bright. There were county committee meetings, which were as boring as any other mandatory meeting.

There were other people I met - R. Bud Dwyer you might remember him as the guy who blew his brains out at a press conference.

Anyway, a lot of drudgery and a some interesting conversation, and a chance to influence things, sometimes by interacting with the candidate, sometimes by getting the best ones elected.

I did mention I volunteered for Perot her once. I've always been a fiscal conservative. To me a government that borrows for current expenses is generationally immoral. Other than that, I liked The Real George Bush.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 23, 2016, 01:21:23 AM
That's almost 100% new to me before the last paragraph.

Anything to talk about from serving on the school board?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2016, 01:29:31 AM
I came here to make a gleanings post, and now I can't remember all of it-

* Hillary was supposed to announce her VP choice, but was delaying on account of the terrorist attack in Germany.

* WikiLeaks has released 20K e-mails from the DNC, presumably hacked by the Russians. Supposedly they will show the DNC conspiring against Bernie, and also colluding with the press.

*What else? Johnson-Weld has a fund-raising campaign. The message is that the two party system is a dinosaur and you're the comet. Cool graphic. They've raised $168K/250 in small donations so far.

* It must be terribly frustrating for Gary, because it seems like there are a couple of people every day who ask why his campaign is a secret or why he waited so late to get in the race on his facebook page. He usually patiently thanks them for their support and asks them to spread the word to everyone they know.  After all, if they read their ballots 4 years ago, he was on them in 48 states. Or if they'd been paying attention, the Libertarians held primaries and debates, too.

* all I can think of at the moment.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 23, 2016, 01:35:19 AM
That's almost 100% new to me before the last paragraph.

Anything to talk about from serving on the school board?

Maybe. Someday when I'm in the mood.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on July 24, 2016, 03:12:56 PM
In what context was he speaking?

The ballot choice between T rump and Hillary in a floor interview after his speech. I may have prefaced my remark with an exclamation about organic fertilizer of bovine origin. That is so rare an occurrence on my part, that I can't recall in what year it last happened.

I have found that Horse[poop] would be better term, in this respect. Of course there is also Chicken, Ape and Bat [poop]es... 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2016, 03:25:19 PM
Yo - do an edit and tone that down more, thanks - or I'll have to, sorry.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 24, 2016, 04:13:02 PM
Siigh.  It had been up an hour, and please don't circumvent the filter that way - not okay.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 25, 2016, 01:53:40 AM
Okay, I haven't been posting stuff. Some of it is because I'm tired, but I got to nap all afternoon, and I'm feeling a little better. In part I've been self-sensoring, because a lot of what I've come across has been pro-Johnson, or anti-[Sleezebag], or makes Hilary look bad.

Like the Washington Post Editorial board's declaration that they can not and will not endorse [Sleezebag] this year with innumerable citations as to why he is unqualified by disposition and lack of experience to be president. I can't dispute those points.

Then there is the recent WikiLeaks revelation, courtesy of the State sponsored Russian hackers. It was known that they hacked both Hillary's campaign, and the Democratic National Committee. It was thought that they were trying to get "dirt" on Hillary and [Sleezebag] to use as blackmail against the eventual president in negotiations .

Well, 20K e-mails from the Democrats have been released on the eve on the convention. The DNC chairwoman has resigned over proof of collusion and bias against Sanders. There is also evidence of a too cozy association with some of the press, and illegal cooperation with The New York Times.

So- Bernie was right, perhaps he'll be happy, he's been calling for the chairwoman's scalp for some time. 

I have another concern. Obviously Putin and [Sleezebag] have a bromance. I think the timing is deliberate to help [Sleezebag]. I wonder if there is an October surprise. While Clinton maintains that her private e-mail arrangements were "never hacked", I think that if that's true it's because  Putin's team never tried. With [Sleezebag] doubling down against NATO, essentially saying the European Union was created to compete with the USA, and the free ride is over. He has no interesting in protecting countries that haven't kept their promises in security treaties. I think it's in Putin's interest to see a President [Sleezebag], and he will do whatever he can to facilitate that. If for example they released enough Clinton e-mails to prove she'd been hacked, and included the name of a CIA agent or informant who had harm befall them, it would make her look pretty bad. Even if she won the election she could face impeachment by the House.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I'm just saying that Putin prefers [Sleezebag], and Congress hates Hillary.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 25, 2016, 03:07:34 AM
Just to bring something you won't find on the internet, here is the beginning of an e-mail I got from Gary Johnson. I cut it off before the fundraiser portion.-

"Friends-

You have probably seen some of the amazing media coverage from my visit last week to the Republican National Convention. It was overwhelming - literally. I couldn’t go 50 feet on a sidewalk without a camera or microphone in my face.

But I have a confession to make. I didn’t really want to go to the Republicans’ convention. It was their party, and I didn’t want to cause any trouble. Civility is actually important, and sadly lacking in this election.

I went because, frankly, the media demands were so great that we couldn’t stay away.

When I got there, an amazing thing happened. Literally hundreds of people at the convention came up to me to express their support, say hello, thank me for what we are doing, or just have a photo taken. Over two full days, there was not a single negative comment. Not one.

That trouble I feared? It just didn’t happen. It was just the opposite. The only problem we had was getting through the crowds of people wanting to shake hands and wish me well.

It’s happening. With Donald [Sleezebag]’s nomination now official, Republicans are making their choices, and a LOT of them are ready to join us. They are beginning to understand that the only real small government candidates in this election are Gov. Bill Weld and me. "


 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 26, 2016, 07:37:06 AM
Gleanings-

* This e-mail business is a mess. Today I read about the /Washington Post, rather than the New York Times doing an illegal fundraising collaboration between party and newspaper. Digging into it Chuck Todd, he  may have been simply dealing with a complaining DNC chair. If he seemed too eager to appease her at first, he also seemed to tire of her in the e-mails, and whether it's an act of throwing her under the bus or not, he hasn't been kind to her recently.

* Whether it was the e-petition I signed, or Nate Silver's opinion, Johnson is being included in the polls, getting 12% from CBS.

* Bernie had an enthusiastic reception at the convention. I'd be kinda surprised if Hillary generates the same enthusiasm.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 04:21:04 PM
I gather Mr. Sander's endorsement of Mrs. Clinton was far from tepid:

"Hillary Clinton must become the next president of the United States. The choice is not even close," Sanders said Monday evening to Democratic National Convention attendees in Philadelphia.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 04:31:16 PM
Quote
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p100x100/10423695_829753723746300_4381716151352311034_n.png?oh=8948d4b45f6fa1fb606c5ee9e16f09b5&oe=582AFDE4)  Bernie Sanders (https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/?fref=nf)

12 hrs ·
..

I understand that many people here in this convention hall and around the country are disappointed about the final results of the nominating process. I think it’s fair to say that no one is more disappointed than I am. But to all of our supporters – here and around the country – I hope you take enormous pride in the historical accomplishments we have achieved.

 We only go around once, we may as well make history as we go around.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 04:38:17 PM
Quote
‘Fear Not—She Means You No Harm,’ Says Elizabeth Warren, Revealing Docile Hillary Clinton To Crowd
The Onion

NEWS IN BRIEF
 July 25, 2016 
 Vol 52 Issue 29     
 Politics  ·  Politicians  ·  Hillary Clinton  ·  Election 2016   


(http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5387/8/16x9/700.jpg)



PHILADELPHIA—Sending terrified gasps through the audience as she pulled back a thick velvet curtain onstage to reveal the formidable politician, Massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren assured the thousands of progressive onlookers at the Democratic National Convention Monday night that the docile Hillary Clinton standing before them meant them no harm. “Ladies and gentlemen, there is no need to fear this candidate, for despite her menacing reputation, she will not attack you or your progressive movement,” said Warren, who then wowed those in attendance by signaling for the compliant Clinton to repeat a series of talking points about regulating financial institutions in an effort to prove that the presumptive Democratic nominee could easily be trained and was not roused into a horrible frenzy by the presence of radical reforms. “Despite the tales you may have heard, she is nothing but a tame, pragmatic Democrat. The terror she stirs inside you belies her true gentle nature. I assure you she is no threat to the policies you hold most dear.” At press time, Clinton had broken free from her iron restraints, ripped off both of Warren’s arms, and tossed the senator’s body into the crowd.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 26, 2016, 07:06:02 PM
We watch by DVR, so as to be able to fast forward through commercials, analysts and boring speakers.

Bernie ran long, I didn't see the whole thing. What I saw was impassioned. So was his audience. Hard to imagine the same enthusiasm for Hillary, especially after she hired Debbie Wasserman-Shultz who got booed out of the place.

Warren was giving the "no bank is too big to fail speech" .  I don't think the Bernie delegates were buying that Hillary would take that approach to Goldman-Sachs.

Mrs. Obama was marvelous, and she refrained from Malania jokes. I couldn't have resisted the opportunity myself. Good for her going out on the high road.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 07:13:45 PM
I happen to have asked my wimminz half an hour ago if anyone in the room could name a single indiscretion on the part of Mrs. Obama, ever.  Goose egg, and I've actually been known to criticize Mother Teresa before.

I say this aware that youse righties won't have to exert yourselves real hard to think of something that you deem counts -there have been one or two statements the right tried a little to make something of, though I do not recall what she said- but I'm confident it's pretty trivial and won't be disappointed if no one tries, really.  I was told she was magnificent last night, to zero surprise on my part.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 26, 2016, 07:54:17 PM
I happen to have asked my wimminz half an hour ago if anyone in the room could name a single indiscretion on the part of Mrs. Obama, ever.  Goose egg, and I've actually been known to criticize Mother Teresa before.

I say this aware that youse righties won't have to exert yourselves real hard to think of something that you deem counts -there have been one or two statements the right tried a little to make something of, though I do not recall what she said- but I'm confident it's pretty trivial and won't be disappointed if no one tries, really.  I was told she was magnificent last night, to zero surprise on my part.


She is a great political wife.  Kind.  Polite.  Funny.  Personable.

The only thing that I can remember about her that was a negative was about 2 years ago I think.  She was in a Target store, acting like a regular person (not the first lady).  The only person who came up and talked to her was someone who asked her to get something off a high shelf.  (She is like 5'11" IIRC).  She gave that as an example of racism.  Not an example of helping someone who is short, but specifically as an example of how people treat her because she is black.  IIRC this was from an interview she gave to People magazine.  I remember it made sound bites on radio & TV for a few days until someone else did something that took over the national news (must have been a slow couple of days).

I don't know if her perspective is that skewed, or if she was just stretching to try to find some relevance racism, or if there was a lot more that wasn't reported. 

Doing a quick google search  http://www.people.com/article/barack-obama-michelle-obama-ferguson-racism-racial-profiling-interview (http://www.people.com/article/barack-obama-michelle-obama-ferguson-racism-racial-profiling-interview)
nothing else in the actual article about missing info - it was in people magazine after all, so just a fluff article in a fluff magazine.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 08:07:44 PM
I have no quibbles with your observations here - that doesn't sound great, as far as it goes, but you treat it fairly and I agree.  -I totally remember her making Mr. & Mrs. Bush Jr. both look like midgets when they showed her around the White house on their way out...

-I do have the vague idea that there was some small fuss in the news briefly several years ago over something she said --- visiting a primary school or something.  No recall whatsoever what was said, it was so outrageous in my eyes, but very young children ISTR being part of the context of where she was...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 08:16:00 PM
-And to be perfectly clear, I'm not really trying to claim she's perfect - I'm really just pointing out how little she's ever given the people who hate Mr. Bakrama SO much any opening to even try to gin up any fake scandals.  It's really astonishing how well she's walked that line.  I'm honestly impressed, and that's not political side-taking, just, wow, she. is. good.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 26, 2016, 09:25:11 PM
Hey - department of fairness moment: given the stuff I've said recently on the topic of ginned-up fake scandals recently mostly WRT Mrs. Clinton and the President, I have to say this - Laura Ingram; that was rank bullcrap last week, she was waving at the balcony or something, and let's not go for such low-hanging fruit unless we write for The Onion or it was at least The Pig himself doing it.  That was a cheap shot and nothing but a contemptible cheap shot that anyone but professional comedians talking about in public except to dismiss it were showing their butts.  Not.  Cool.

Note that I classify Ms. Ingram as a "blonde republican harpy" -one of the usually attractive-looking blonde women who say appalling things about current events on TV for a living; they're a thing since Fox- and am not saying this as a fanboi, but it's just the truth.  Just waving, and making a thing of that wasn't okay...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 26, 2016, 11:45:11 PM
My only beef with Mrs. Obama had to do with her redesign of the national school lunch program with the honorable intent of controlling calories to prevent obesity. The trouble is it tended to be a one size fits all, and didn't allow for the needs of athletes , farm kids, or  those undergoing a growth spurt. After all, the original purpose of the school lunch program was to see that kids weren't hungry. Hungry kids don't learn as well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 12:22:57 AM
That's ringing a tiny bell - may well be the thing I was thinking of...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 12:35:04 AM
Oh - and before that last post, I happened to be upstairs watching when Senator Sanders moved that Mrs. Clinton be voted the nominee unanimously.  Always a class act, that Bernie.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 03:25:52 AM
Here are  Gary's latest comments about Bernie...and Hillary ( he usually doesn't speak much about her ). I'll just quote the lead, not the whole opinion piece. As Gary often explains, he's in 73% agreement with Bernie on Isidewith.com

https://medium.com/@GovGaryJohnson/bernie-bit-the-cronies-and-they-bit-back-bf38335e08e3#.ff5xclj6l

Gov. Gary Johnson
Two-term Governor of New Mexico and 2016 Libertarian candidate for President

8 hrs ago·3 min read

Bernie Bit the Cronies, and They Bit Back

Senator Bernie Sanders went after cronyism…and the cronies struck back. We all suspected it, but thanks to a Wikileaks data dump, now we KNOW it.

From a built-in cushion of immovable, unelected “Super Delegates” to debates scheduled when no one was watching to the now clearly-documented collusion between the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign, the system was rigged to squash any rebellion against the Democratic Establishment.

Bernie is a disrupter. The system doesn’t like disrupters…because disruption threatens the fruits of cronyism. He couldn’t be bought. He couldn’t even be rented. He offered a voice for the Millennials who are an inconvenience for the special interests who have, for too long, controlled Washington DC. He became a symbol for the rejection of business-as-usual.




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 04:35:46 AM
https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-election/poll-gary-johnson-26-utah-three-points-overtaking-[Sleezebag]/

Poll: Gary Johnson At 26% In Utah, Three Points From Overtaking [Sleezebag]
— Published on July 23, 2016  — in 2016  — by J. Wilson

In order to become President of the United States a candidate must win a majority of electoral college votes. The magic number is 270 and in a two way race that number is easily achievable – either one or the other will make it. Although, in a three way race things get more complicated. If no candidate reaches 270 the election is sent to the House of Representatives for a vote. Therefore, all a third party candidate has to do is keep the other two under 270. Gary Johnson might be the first third party candidate who can accomplish that. A recent poll found Gary Johnson at 26% in Utah, only three points behind Donald [Sleezebag].

Despite being one of the darkest red states in the country, Utah is also one of the most anti-[Sleezebag]. During the Republican primaries, it handed Ted Cruz one of his largest victories. The Texas Senator won every county and 69% of the vote – his second highest percentage after Wyoming. [Sleezebag] only managed 14% – his second lowest showing after Wyoming. It was one of the largest margins between the candidates throughout the entire primary season.

The anti-[Sleezebag] sentiment hasn’t died down since Utah’s March caucus. The state is still adamantly opposed to Donald [Sleezebag] and looking for a way out this November. Unlike other segments of the Republican base, Mormons didn’t fall for his feigned Republicanism. Furthermore, they’ve been looking for another option for some time now. A poll taken earlier this summer found a generic third party candidate getting more 35% of the vote. Although, when there’s no name that percentage is noticeably higher.

However, when a name was put next to the third option the percentage didn’t drop that far. Gary Johnson still took 26% of the vote which is his highest showing yet. Other state polls have found Johnson in the high double digits before, but this is his first time in the twenties. With that strong base of support there is a real path to victory in Utah. Although it’s hard to work out a scenario wherein winning only Utah could keep the other two under 270, when you add it with New Mexico, it is doable. Gary Johnson could very well be the first third party candidate to throw the election into the House in centuries.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 06:45:26 AM
Here's one in it' entirety that makes T rump look bad. There are plenty of articles on this subject.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/06/five-questions-we-still-cant-answer-about-donald-trumps-charity-donations/?tid=a_inl (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/06/five-questions-we-still-cant-answer-about-donald-trumps-charity-donations/?tid=a_inl)


Post Politics

Five questions we still can’t answer about Donald T rump’s charity donations
By David A. Fahrenthold July 6 


For weeks now, The Washington Post has been trying to prove Donald T rump right about something important.

So far, we’ve failed.

The Post has been trying to confirm a claim that T rump and his campaign staff have made repeatedly: that the mogul has given millions of dollars of his own money to charities.

First, The Post looked in public records.

The proof wasn’t there.

Indeed, the tax filings of the Donald J. T rump Foundation — which T rump set up in 1987 to give away his money — show no gifts from T rump himself since 2008. (Filings since then show that all the new money in T rump’s foundation was supplied by other donors. T rump still chooses how to give it away.)

The Post then looked through an internal list compiled by T rump’s campaign, which said the tally showed $102 million in charitable gifts from T rump.

The proof wasn’t there, either.
The gifts on that list turned out to include “conservation easements” on T rump properties — agreements on land use — and thousands of free rounds of golf, given away by T rump’s courses. T rump’s campaign confirmed that not one dollar of the $102 million was a cash gift from him.

T rump’s staff insisted that those personal gifts existed — but T rump wouldn’t provide any details about them. “There’s no way for you to know or understand what those gifts are or when they are made,” T rump spokeswoman Hope Hicks told BuzzFeed, which has also investigated T rump’s charity.

So The Post looked for evidence of those personal donations, surveying 207 charities (so far) that seemed to have the closest ties to T rump. These were groups to which T rump had given T rump Foundation money, charities he’d written about in his books, charities he’d praised on Twitter — and charities that honored T rump at a charity ball. The firm DonorSearch also provided its database, which includes records of more than 101 million charitable gifts.

All of that turned up just one personal donation — made by T rump, using his own money — during a period of more than seven years.

That was the stretch between 2008, when T rump made his last personal donation to his own foundation, and May of this year — when T rump, under pressure, fulfilled a vow to give $1 million to a veterans’ charity.

The one gift in that stretch went to the Police Athletic League of New York City.

It was worth less than $10,000. It happened in 2009. And there’s a chance it’s actually a bookkeeping error.

As a new week begins, here are the questions we still haven’t been able to answer:

1. Before that $1 million gift to a veterans’ charity in May, when was the last time T rump gave a dollar of his own money to charity?

T rump himself could answer this question but hasn’t. T rump could also release his tax returns, which could detail his charitable giving. He hasn’t. T rump’s staffers have not responded to calls and emails asking for a list of his personal gifts, leaving The Post to build its own list of the mogul’s favorite charities.

On Sunday, T rump’s son, Eric T rump — who runs a charity of his own, the Eric T rump Foundation — denounced The Post’s reporting in an AM radio interview. “Charity is such a big part of our company and of our lives. My father has contributed so much to what I’ve done. He contributes so much to every charity,” Eric T rump said in an interview reported by The Hill newspaper.

But since then, Eric T rump has not provided details to back up those claims.

2. If Donald T rump didn’t donate millions to charity, what became of the $8.5 million-plus he’d promised to give away?

Since 2001, T rump has made repeated promises to give away the proceeds of various ventures: the “Apprentice” TV show; two books; T rump University; and a tent rental to Libyan strongman Moammar Gaddafi. These promises added up to more than $8.5 million in potential donations.

T rump’s lawyers have already said that his personal proceeds from T rump University — estimated by the New York attorney general at $5 million — were eaten up by legal fees. None went to charity. As for the rest of it: If it didn’t go to charity, where did it go?

3. Has Donald T rump ever donated his own money to the Eric T rump Foundation?

The Post included the Eric T rump Foundation on its list of 202 charities, calling and emailing to ask when Donald T rump had last given a personal gift. But the Eric T rump Foundation has not responded to repeated inquiries.

It seems likely that, if Donald T rump gave his own money to any charity, that charity would be his son’s. But so far, neither Donald T rump nor Eric T rump have offered evidence to confirm that. Tax documents, in fact, show money going the other way. In 2014, Eric T rump's charity paid $87,700 to Donald T rump's golf course in Loudoun County, Va., as payment to use the course for an Eric T rump Foundation fundraiser.

 



4. Did Donald T rump ever give any money to the ALS Association after taking part in its “Ice Bucket Challenge” fundraiser campaign in 2014?

In the midst of the “Ice Bucket Challenge” craze of 2014, T rump filmed a video on the roof of T rump Tower, with Miss Universe and Miss USA dousing him in T rump water. The video now has more than 2.2 million views on YouTube. In one short clip, T rump touted himself, his pageant and his water, while associating himself with a popular charitable cause.

But the point of the Ice Bucket Challenge wasn’t brand-building or YouTube views. It was to raise money for ALS research.

The Donald J. T rump Foundation, however, gave nothing to the ALS Association in the year of T rump’s ice bucket video. Did T rump, perhaps, give a personal gift instead? The ALS Association says it can’t answer that question without T rump’s permission. So far, he hasn’t given it.

5. What happened to this football helmet?

In 2012, at a charity auction in Florida, T rump won a bidding war for gear donated by then-Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow: a jersey and a signed helmet. The winning bid, $12,000, would be paid to the Susan G. Komen organization, a breast cancer charity.

But T rump didn’t pay with his own money.

Instead, he used money from the Donald J. T rump Foundation — funds meant for charity and largely donated by other people.

IRS experts have said T rump may have violated rules against “self-dealing,” which are designed to keep a charity’s leaders from using their nonprofit to help themselves. The key question is: What happened to the helmet and jersey? If T rump still has the gear in his possession — perhaps on display at one of his buildings — he may have broken the rules.

If he gave them to another charity, he may be in the clear. But the value of the gear has severely declined, along with Tebow’s football career: Today, a signed helmet and jersey can be bought online for about $415.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on July 27, 2016, 02:45:36 PM
Here are  Gary's latest comments about Bernie...and Hillary ( he usually doesn't speak much about her ). I'll just quote the lead, not the whole opinion piece. As Gary often explains, he's in 73% agreement with Bernie on Isidewith.com

https://medium.com/@GovGaryJohnson/bernie-bit-the-cronies-and-they-bit-back-bf38335e08e3#.ff5xclj6l

Gov. Gary Johnson
Two-term Governor of New Mexico and 2016 Libertarian candidate for President

8 hrs ago·3 min read

Bernie Bit the Cronies, and They Bit Back

Senator Bernie Sanders went after cronyism…and the cronies struck back. We all suspected it, but thanks to a Wikileaks data dump, now we KNOW it.

From a built-in cushion of immovable, unelected “Super Delegates” to debates scheduled when no one was watching to the now clearly-documented collusion between the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign, the system was rigged to squash any rebellion against the Democratic Establishment.

Bernie is a disrupter. The system doesn’t like disrupters…because disruption threatens the fruits of cronyism. He couldn’t be bought. He couldn’t even be rented. He offered a voice for the Millennials who are an inconvenience for the special interests who have, for too long, controlled Washington DC. He became a symbol for the rejection of business-as-usual.

If we want our votes for a presidential candidate to matter in the actual election, than we must abolish the electoral college and implement a free voting system! The change in election process would cause a transition of the country from a representative republic into a democratic republic. The current two party system arises from the presence of winner take all general elections (aka the person with the majority of votes wins the entire seat), and the replacement of the majority wins all position with a plural vote system would allow for the representation of third parties in the government.
I loved Bernie with his socialist ideals until he confessed and kissed the Hildabeast. I cannot tolerate the Hildabeast or [Sleezebag]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 08:38:46 PM
Yes, I'm beginning to think that it's time for that change. In the information age, we don't have to worry about a candidate on horseback, or one of his supporters on horseback carrying handills will skip the mountains and plains because of low voter density. It's time for a conservative in New York and a Liberal in Utah to have the same voice in a presidential election as if they both lived in Ohio.

After the [Sleezebag] primary win, I'm thinking about a ranked voting system, too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 08:41:09 PM
Well, Marvin Bush has endorsed Johnson/Weld... and Bill Kristol is starting to consider them, bilogging -

"The best thing Kristol had to say was that "a vote for [Johnson] is a symbolic vote for the Constitution and against both demagogic authoritarianism and demagogic nanny statism."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 09:23:19 PM
Who's Marvin Bush?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 09:29:47 PM
THIS IS NOT AN ONION ARTICLE  ( although with my glasses, I see that it's not new )

-idUSKCN0YN35S]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-[Sleezebag]-idUSKCN0YN35S (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-[Sleezebag)

Politics  |  Thu Jun 2, 2016 9:56am EDT
Related:  World,  Election 2016,  Politics,  China 

North Korea says [Sleezebag] isn't screwy at all, a wise choice for president

SEOUL  |  By Jack Kim


North Korea has backed presumptive U.S. Republican nominee Donald [Sleezebag], with a propaganda website praising him as "a prescient presidential candidate" who can liberate Americans living under daily fear of nuclear attack by the North.

A column carried on Tuesday by DPRK Today, one of the reclusive and dynastic state's mouthpieces, described [Sleezebag] as a "wise politician" and the right choice for U.S. voters in the Nov. 8 U.S. presidential election.

It described his most likely Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, as "thick-headed Hillary" over her proposal to apply the Iran model of wide sanctions to resolve the nuclear weapons issue on the Korean peninsula.

[Sleezebag] instead has told Reuters he was prepared to talk to North Korean leader Kim Jong Un to try to stop Pyongyang's nuclear program, and that China should also help solve the problem.

North Korea, known officially as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), is under U.N. sanctions over its past nuclear tests. South Korea and the United States say its calls for dialogue are meaningless until it takes steps to end its nuclear ambitions.

DPRK Today also said [Sleezebag]'s suggestion that the United States should pull its troops from South Korea until Seoul pays more was the way to achieve Korean unification.

"It turns out that [Sleezebag] is not the rough-talking, screwy, ignorant candidate they say he is, but is actually a wise politician and a prescient presidential candidate," said the column, written by a China-based Korean scholar identified as Han Yong Muk.
 
DPRK Today is among a handful of news sites run by the isolated North, although its content is not always handled by the main state-run media.

It said promising to resolve issues on the Korean peninsula through "negotiations and not war" was the best option for America, which it said is "living every minute and second on pins and needles in fear of a nuclear strike" by North Korea.
 
The North has for years called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the South as the first step toward peace on the Korean peninsula and demanded Washington sign a peace treaty to replace the truce that ended the 1950-53 Korean War.

Its frequently strident rhetoric also often threatens nuclear strikes against South Korea and the United States.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 27, 2016, 09:34:06 PM
Who's Marvin Bush?

"Marvin Pierce Bush (born October 22, 1956) is the youngest son of U.S. President George H. W. Bush and Barbara Bush (née Pierce), and brother of President George W. Bush, John (Jeb), Neil and Dorothy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Bush
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 27, 2016, 09:38:22 PM
I guess it's probably a good sign that I never heard of him, then - I don't think much of his brothers, and it hints that at least he's stayed out of trouble...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on July 28, 2016, 12:13:34 AM
-russia-dnc-emails-000000865.html]https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-[Sleezebag]-russia-dnc-emails-000000865.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-[Sleezebag)

Trumpster asks Russia to see if they can send the 30K emails Clinton deleted.  LOL
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 12:53:04 AM
Always a good campaigning move to engage in public behavior verging on treason.  -Maybe that one will actually bite him on the butt proper, Putin not being what you'd call real popular with the lunks who'd even look at that con man.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on July 28, 2016, 01:44:58 AM
Maybe that one will actually bite him on the butt proper...

How many times have we collectively said that this election?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 02:18:24 AM
Oh Lord; my record on predicting anything to do with the Pig is even worse than my record during the Cheney Bund or predicting how low Cheney wouldn't dare stoop - beyond pathetic.

(My record on predicting what Bernie will do is pretty good, on the other hand - I'm looking for him to actually go out and actively campaign for Mrs. Clinton with as serious a commitment of time and effort as one can hope for from a man his age -and running for president is tiring at any age, and you know he REALLY wants to go home for a year right now- who risks having his brain explode from doing so...)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 02:17:16 PM
So I'm getting a lot of my news from Mylochka, who's been holing up in the guest room and watching convention primetime stuff through, which I don't have the patience to do but in bit and pieces and then only if Momma hasn't found something better to watch.

She tells me Bloomberg may have been to highlight of the night.  "I'm a New Yorker and I know a con when I hear one" or something like that.

The previous night, she says may have been that video of Hilary and the little girls - which I'm told Mrs. Clinton blew the performance of her lines in a very typical awkward way, but it REALLY worked anyway and gave the gurlz watching the serious feels.  As the Tick said about 20 years ago "Groovy all-girl world now!"

-If you don't believe me that such symbolic things matter -and many of you have heard this one from me before repeatedly- google Nichelle Nichols, Martin Luther King, Woopie Goldberg and LeVar Burton together and read what the latter two have always said about how important Lt. Uhura being there was to them as children.  -You can't take away from Hilary what she's already managed or that it really matters.  The little girls will always remember.

---

The convention thus far has, as a whole, astonished me in the best way.  The Democratic party has been the form circular firing squads party since before I was old enough to vote, they've been playing the enemy's game and losing ever since, and though what you see on TV at a national convention is theater and bullcrap and nothing but, it's the Republicans who always have been better at putting on a show -if a dumb one- since Lee Atwater came along, and it's wonderful and fills my body with smiles to see the Democrats doing something right for a change.  -They had every reason to have a spectacular circular firing squad drama meltdown with the collusion emails thing sprung with such exquisite timing, but no, they moved on with the show, have handled the Bernie-heads laying on the floor screaming well -Leon Panetta got flustered by the chanting, but I thought the nervous energy actually improved the rest of his speech- and THIS was the GROWUPS show compared to last week.

I'd like to know who's coordinating everything this week - whomever it is, is gooood.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 06:14:03 PM
Incidentally, I had to quote the girlpower and Lt. Uhura passage above in the France thread in Civ 6 because Catherine de Medici and the relevance - trying to encourage the PC debate aspect to OT this thread w/ gaming talk rather than sliming a gaming thread with politics...

I don't have to tell y'all how nerds are, and what's being said far and wide about picking her to lead the French civ pretty much writes itself - it's all connected and utterly relevant to this central theme of Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaigning -I gather the real central reason she went into politics as herself in the first place, that certainly being what she claims- and, eh, it's all connected and would be funny on some conceptual level to OT the OTF with gaming talk, and have at it if anyone wants to get into all the connections...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 08:59:59 PM
I see some democrats are saying Logan Act today - I hope they don't overplay that hand, as they may well be right, but obviously politically-motivated legal actions are extremely poor form.  I may not deplore it aimed at the Clintons and then applaud it for being aimed at the clearly-guilty worst person in the world...

Quote
Logan Act: Democrats Accuse Donald [Sleezebag] of Violating Anti-Collusion Law With Russia Email Comments

Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and Sens. Harry Reid, D-Nev., and Claire McCaskill D-Mo., said [Sleezebag] may have broken the law by telling Russia it should find Hillary Clinton's deleted emails.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Logan-Act/111302372254219?source=wpfrt&position=1&trqid=6312462574252575329 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Logan-Act/111302372254219?source=wpfrt&position=1&trqid=6312462574252575329)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 09:04:21 PM
I wonder if Mr. Sanders has ever read Dune.

I was thinking last night while the Bernie-heads were acting out on Leon Panetta that he must feel a bit like Paul - he started a thing where they love him -not all him but what he stood for- so much that they don't obey him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 28, 2016, 11:02:39 PM
Here's an extended video interview with the Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate Bill Weld.

https://www.facebook.com/Reason.Magazine/videos/vb.17548474116/10153749763394117/?type=2&theater (http://www.facebook.com/Reason.Magazine/videos/vb.17548474116/10153749763394117/?type=2&theater)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 28, 2016, 11:07:44 PM
I see some democrats are saying Logan Act today - I hope they don't overplay that hand, as they may well be right, but obviously politically-motivated legal actions are extremely poor form.  I may not deplore it aimed at the Clintons and then applaud it for being aimed at the clearly-guilty worst person in the world...

Quote
Logan Act: Democrats Accuse Donald T rump of Violating Anti-Collusion Law With Russia Email Comments

Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and Sens. Harry Reid, D-Nev., and Claire McCaskill D-Mo., said T rump may have broken the law by telling Russia it should find Hillary Clinton's deleted emails.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Logan-Act/111302372254219?source=wpfrt&position=1&trqid=6312462574252575329 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Logan-Act/111302372254219?source=wpfrt&position=1&trqid=6312462574252575329)

Somehow I knew that it would devolve to this- money ink and media minutes dedicated to proving that the duopoly was unfit for office.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 28, 2016, 11:18:09 PM
[shrugs] If it's limited to bloviating and there's no actual court action/actual congressional inquiries, that's just politics and I approve - he really shouldn't have said that, nothing to do with what else I think of him.  It's pretty disqualifying, on the face of it.

Duopoly?  This is all on him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 29, 2016, 12:38:26 AM
You're right, if this remains rhetorical and political, he brought it on himself.

His remarks are appalling in the context of the FBI statement on Hillary's e-mails, and I would probably disqualify him from receiving my vote if I hadn't already done so long ago. If I were a sitting member of Congress, I would ask that they both be denied courtesy security briefings between now and the election on the basis of her carelessness and his recklessness.

On the other hand, if I believed Hillary that the missing 30K e-mails were mostly about yoga class and recipes ( which I certainly don't ) it would be no big deal, because they would prove her honesty. In fact if I were her I'd be calling for release of them if they still existed, because I wouldn't make such a claim if it weren't true, and I'd be more intent on restoring my good name than caring  about concealing what I ate and when I exercised. Maybe that's just me.

Frankly, I don't want either to go to jail. I simply want them both to withdraw from politics and go away.
NOW!

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 29, 2016, 12:48:08 AM
She's bad at handing this sort of thing.  That's no comment on what she is or is not guilty of, and no defense, just an observation.

---

I noticed this thread has been quiet after last week - you haven't had much more stomach to keep up and watch this week than I did last -zero in my case, so you're probably ahead-  have you?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 29, 2016, 08:20:26 AM
My wife and I try... we always nod in agreement at the anti- [Sleezebag] stuff... but wind up switching channels.

But a lot of this has me looking at the clock. Kaine's speech, and I find him a likeable and qualified fellow, had me expecting him to continue with...."and I'd like to thank my Kindergarten teacher, my first grade teacher, my second grade teacher, " ad infinitum. 

Obama, likewise began with a bunch of stuff that was a boring rehash of other speeches I've heard from him mixed with boring bits about Hillary... we didn't finish that one either, until we saw some excepts of his wind-up on the news, and went back to look at it. It ended well, the man can speak.

Bill Clinton- well I guess he had his part to play in telling the Hillary story, but I was more moved by his speech for Obama 4 years ago.

It would have gone better if they'd edited their speeches and kept to the schedule.

As  for Hillary herself- she actually refrained from infuriating me tonight, so maybe she believed more of what she said. But at the same time, even though it was a crowd pleaser she prefaced her "Constitutional Amendment to overturn Citizen's United" with weasel words like ( if it comes to it) or  ( if it becomes necessary) . Last time she spoke of it she didn't weasel. It sounded like a priority. I've already posted an article about how calling for an amendment is kicking the can down the road by getting credit for taking the courageous stand, while knowing you'll never have to obey it because it could take a century to pass.

Well, Bernie looked unenthused tonight, even when they were praising him.

Ultimately, I'm probably never going to believe her, but she didn't leave me feeling like I'd been lied to and played for a fool the way she usually does.

As far as I'm concerned the best speech of both conventions was Michelle Obama's . SHE WON.

****


*The longer this goes on the more partisan and less objective I become. I could post a lot more articles bashing [Sleezebag] with regard to charity, because I was researching it to show my wife. She thought he was at least chartable from watching Celebrity Apprentice. She's pretty disappointed, she believes charity is part of conservatism, and he's a disgrace.

*As for the convention, it's ironic that the party that's against The Wall convenes behind one, and that the party that ridicules voter ID requires ID to participate. Then there are the marches and protests which I have yet to see televised.  I  came across a Jill Stein article I'd like to post, and will if I can find it again because it's newsworthy, but the Democrats have a different spin-

Essentially, regardless of her intellect, she is unqualified for the office. She was a town council person, and then a professional candidate ever since. Some of the GREEN party ideas are outliers by American standards, but Green Party elected officials are largely in local government, so Jill Stein is the best they've got. Jill hurts Hillary with the voters she takes and the things she says.
Jill will be like Nader, a spoiler. She has no path to victory because she's too radical to win  red states, and the same goes for an election with no majority in the electoral college and decided in the House.

* Gary could actually win that way, according to the New York Times recently, and not just the libertarian leaning magazines and blogs.

Thing is, while she and Gary are mostly civil to each other, ( they debated each other 4 years ago, and have jointly filed a lawsuit to be included in the debate with the [Sleezebag] and Hillary ), without a decision on the lawsuit, and without an endorsement or cooperation with Bernie, Jill and Gary are in direct competition for voters that would otherwise go democratic or stay home.  Very unlikely they will both poll high enough to make the  15% in 5 polls Labor Day cut for inclusion in the debates.

Well, maybe all she really expects is the 5% threshold in the general election to get establish the GREEN Party and get federal funding.

*Gary and Bill think they could win outright if they could get into the debates and news coverage as equals, and I think Gary is the best compromise candidate if it goes to the House, where the majority detest Hillary,  and the Democrats and many of the Republicans fear [Sleezebag], and Johnson has a track record of looking at every bill as a separate issue with no grudges in a state where he was a minority party. Bill & Gary are speaking of forming a coalition cabinet, since they don't have enough qualified Libertarians to draw on.  I'm sure they'll be disappointed with less than the 5% of the popular vote threshold for establishing the party nationally ( and making it eligible for federal funding,  ironic as that is for the Libertarians ) but the main goal is making it much easier for their caucuses or primaries to put candidates on the ballots everywhere. .

*Speaking of qualified candidates to draw on, there is a trickle of GOP state legislators flipping Libertarian and endorsing Johnson. So that looks good for the future.

*Oh, the DNC issued an apology to Sanders for their comments and bias, but it wasn't accompanied by resignations. More of an "Oops. My bad. You still lose."

* Hillary was walking away with electoral college, and securing all of the largest swing states, even with the slide in popular vote after the FBI pronouncement.  But follow that with the GOP convention, and follow that with WikiLeaks...  and suddenly the popular vote polls are converging and she's averaging only 274 votes or so, meaning that if Gary won his home state instead of Hillary, the election goes to the House.

It could get even worse for her, because there hasn't been a Pennsylvania poll for 2 weeks. If it flips to [Sleezebag], ( not far fetched because it's one of the top gun ownership states, and Hillary couldn't resist preaching to the choir at her convention ) then she's starting to look like the underdog.

Silver doesn't know yet if her slide is a trend or a blip. [Sleezebag]'s bounce was avg. to low. 

Just checked 538 again, Well, it looks like Clinton's starting to get her bounce.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 29, 2016, 08:41:46 AM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-campaign-election-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-green-party-jill-stein-progressives-liberal-213972 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-campaign-election-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-green-party-jill-stein-progressives-liberal-213972)

Think You’ve Got It Locked, Hillary? Meet Jill Stein.

The Green Party candidate insists it’s her year to get noticed—and she may make it onto 47 state ballots.

By Bill Scher

June 19, 2016

After an anxiety-inducing and divisive primary, Democrats are starting to breathe easier. Bernie Sanders, while not formally conceding to Hillary Clinton, has turned his fire on Donald [Sleezebag]. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, the darling of the left before Sanders, has effusively endorsed Clinton. So at last the presumptive nominee can hope to gather in all those unhappy Bernie voters and lead a united Democratic Party in the fall, right?

Not if Dr. Jill Stein has anything to say about it.

The longtime Massachusetts environmental activist and presumptive Green Party nominee (the Green convention is not until August 4) is hungrily eyeing disgruntled Sanders voters—many of whom have been saying that even now, with the nomination all but locked up, they still won’t vote for Hillary. And Stein appears to know her audience, declaring on CNN right after the California primary that she represents “a plan B … to continue to fight that revolution.”

She is also undaunted by the Democratic coalescing around Clinton. Asked in an interview with Politico Magazine this week whether the Warren endorsement presents a problem for her, Stein suggested that the Massachusetts senator lacks the progressive credibility to sway Sanders voters: “Elizabeth Warren has very good proposals regarding Wall Street, but she really has not been leading the charge for single-payer health care … and is pretty much a war hawk in alignment with Hillary Clinton.” (Stein is not the first voice on the left to criticize Warren’s foreign policy record as militaristic.)

You may be wondering: The Green Party? What’s that—one of those European lefty outfits? And do they have a prayer of getting more than a fraction of the vote? As of today, Stein is but a blip. Eighty-seven percent of voters don’t know enough about her to register an opinion in a late May Quinnipiac poll. And Clinton’s lead over [Sleezebag] appears big enough to weather a little left-wing erosion. But with a recent Bloomberg poll showing that only 55 percent of Sanders voters are ready for Hillary, the conditions exist for Stein to spark a larger exodus–if she can raise her profile and if Democrats can’t unify at next month’s convention.

And while the Greens have been under the radar in America for the past several years, they proudly claim at least 100 municipal officeholders, and from 2007 to 2015 they controlled the mayoralty of the 100,000-person city of Richmond, California. Now, like the Libertarian Party, the Green Party sees its moment in this season of widespread discontent, when both Clinton and presumptive GOP nominee Donald [Sleezebag] begin the general election campaign with record-high unfavorables. Stein’s platform is nearly identical to Sanders’, only more pacifist (the two diverge on the use of military drones) and more ambitious (beyond providing free college, Stein would cancel all existing student debt).

And Stein may be making big strides toward being treated like a legitimate presidential candidate. In her 2012 Green Party run, she appeared on only 36 state ballots. But her campaign’s ballot access coordinator told Counterpunch last week that “we fully expect to get on the ballot in all but three states due to our petition drives” and will then litigate the “onerous” requirements in the three remaining states in hopes of hitting 50.

That’s not bluster. Ballot Access News publisher Richard Winger told Politico Magazine in an email he expects Stein to reach 47 as well. If so, Stein would break the ballot access record for the Green Party, topping the Ralph Nader 2000 effort by four states.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-campaign-election-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-green-party-jill-stein-progressives-liberal-213972#ixzz4FmURhRSp (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-campaign-election-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-green-party-jill-stein-progressives-liberal-213972#ixzz4FmURhRSp)
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 29, 2016, 09:20:25 PM
I've seen absolutely ASTONISHLY little online today to indicate that the convention last night even happened.  I don't know what to make of that - I haven't had to go looking for news related to the previous night at either convention before. 

-It does mean they didn't screw up.

I'm calling -only moderate confidence- that between going last for a change and just putting a better show -not the same as a good show; it was frequently terribly boring, but they didn't screw up, not least with the getting counterchanting going at key points when the bernieheads acted out, and I'm seeing nothing trending on Facebook about any stunts from them when Mrs. Clinton spoke, and impressive that that was headed off- there's going to be a meaningful bump from this.  -Anything can happen by November, but those in the Clinton campaign who coordinated various levels of running the details of the convention show pulled off a masterpiece.  Make sure to hold onto the key parties in that for the communications office in the White House.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 29, 2016, 10:52:57 PM
I've seen absolutely ASTONISHLY little online today to indicate that the convention last night even happened.  I don't know what to make of that - I haven't had to go looking for news related to the previous night at either convention before. 

-It does mean they didn't screw up.

I'm calling -only moderate confidence- that between going last for a change and just putting a better show -not the same as a good show; it was frequently terribly boring, but they didn't screw up, not least with the getting counterchanting going at key points when the bernieheads acted out, and I'm seeing nothing trending on Facebook about any stunts from them when Mrs. Clinton spoke, and impressive that that was headed off- there's going to be a meaningful bump from this.  -Anything can happen by November, but those in the Clinton campaign who coordinated various levels of running the details of the convention show pulled off a masterpiece.  Make sure to hold onto the key parties in that for the communications office in the White House.

Just hearsay and anecdotal evidence, but- Well, I did read somewhere that Bernie's diehards staged a walkout before the Hillary coronation, but I didn't see a hint of it on TV. In fact it was reported that it was a packed house ( and so it appeared), and the doors were closed by order of the fire marshal.

Well, today I heard that one of the delegates claiming to be a Bernie delegate said that after he walked out, he left the protest outside and returned out of curiosity, only to find that his section was full of people he never saw before. There was also a claim of a local ad offering $50/night for seat fillers, who only had to sit there, applaud, and wave the signs or banners they were given.

Likewise, Black Lives Matter was protesting outside with a sign which said "Hillary Delete Yourself"

The show was well managed, or there was collusion with NBC, or both.

I've been doing stuff and haven't had much chance to surf the web today.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 29, 2016, 11:24:37 PM
I don't know what NBC could have to do with it - I watched what I could stand to on PBS.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on July 30, 2016, 02:15:37 AM
I'm just saying that they didn't show me a walk-out or an outside protest. They seemed to be able to cut to the discussion panel or a commercial if things veered from the unity message.

In contrast, during the GOP coverage, they conducted floor interviews when there was a rules fight, and again when  Cruz defied Donald, to add fuel to the fire.  I don't mean that to sound whiney, because as far as I'm concerned both parties deserve to disintegrate for giving us such flawed candidates.

It's not that I don't know NBC/MSNBC has a liberal bias, it's part of why I listen to them, to get that perspective, ( the other part is that I really like the local news and weather )but like the DNC e-mails, I thought that they'd be more impartial and less brazen, have more journalistic integrity.

****

The Obamas are great orators, but I don't really think Hillary gets a quarter million per speech because she's mesmerizing, and she's gotten a lot of practice in the last year or so.. That's my lasting impression of the Democratic Convention.

****
Gary is taking flack today from both the Theocons and the Libertarians. The issue is "Religious Liberty". The subject came up in a recent interview or two. Gary took some heat for standing up for the '64 Civil Rights Act in a debate at the Libertarian Convention this year. Purist Libertarians believe that the government has no right to tell you what you can do on your own property, or penalize you for what you think or say.

Theocons seem to disregard the Golden Rule, and use the term to deny services to people they don't approve of, or refuse services they don't approve of - Pharmacists denying birth control pills because they believe life begins at conception, Doctors refusing to perform abortions and sterilizations, County Clerks denying marriage licenses to same sex couples, Social workers denying them adoptions, businesses denying various service to gays.

Gary's thinking is that religious based discrimination is still discrimination, which is wrong. If you can discriminate against sinners, why not other religions, too? First the gays, then the Muslims. Where does it end?

Maybe somebody might  think it's not a problem in the age of social media, but then maybe they  haven't lived rural where there's a lack of goods and services, much less competition.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on July 30, 2016, 02:20:32 AM
Go tell Elok that in the trans bathrooms thread, please.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on July 31, 2016, 04:03:42 AM
... journalistic integrity.

I think I saw that once, when I was a kid.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2016, 05:53:54 AM
It's a new month, so I can access this New York Times article which is widely referred to, -

The 2016 Race

Donald [Sleezebag]’s Path: What Map Should Democrats Fear the Most?
A Tie at 269–269

In this map, Donald [Sleezebag] wins five close swing states: Nevada, Iowa, Ohio, New Hampshire and North Carolina. 

By NATE COHN and TONI MONKOVIC

July 27, 2016


Each week, Nate Cohn, The Upshot’s elections analyst, based in Washington, and Toni Monkovic, an Upshot editor in New York,  discuss the 2016 race and post a lightly edited transcript of their written exchange.

By now, it’s clear that Donald [Sleezebag] has a realistic shot to become president. He has essentially pulled even with Hillary Clinton in the polls (after the expected, and usually temporary, bounce from his convention). As of Tuesday night, FiveThirtyEight gave him a 47.5 percent chance to win. The Upshot model assigned him a 32 percent chance.

But how would he win? I asked Nate to come up with a map or two for the most plausible way [Sleezebag] could win in a close election. I said I would do the same, independently, then we could compare notes. Readers can play along at this easy-to-use interactive site. (FiveThirtyEight estimates that [Sleezebag] has a higher chance of losing the popular vote but winning the Electoral College than the other way around.) — Toni

Toni A caveat: Dwelling on the Electoral College makes sense only when an election is close. Although it happened in 2000, it’s rare that a candidate wins the popular vote and loses the Electoral College.

But based on the months of polling we’ve seen so far, it appears that if [Sleezebag] wins, it’s likely to be a close election.

Nate Yeah, it’s pretty hard for a candidate to win the popular vote by more than two percentage points and lose the Electoral College. That said, it really can happen.

As Al Gore will tell you.

Toni Yes, President Gore — that’s what many readers remind us (in the comments whenever the issue comes up) he should have been called. Speaking of Florida, it’s pretty much a given in this exercise that [Sleezebag] has to win the state; he has virtually no path without it. Florida is a diverse state, and it’s far from clear that he actually will win it. But it would be pointless to do our mapping otherwise. So let’s assume [Sleezebag] wins by a hanging chad or two.

Nate O.K., let’s give [Sleezebag] the state of Florida.

Toni I see that your map is an exact replica of one of mine. You have a 269-269 tie, with the House determining the winner, and your second map is just a slight variation, with Maine’s Second Congressional District putting him over the top, 270-268. In these maps, if [Sleezebag] loses Pennsylvania, he has to win five swing states: Ohio, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada.

That’s not easy.

[Note: The House would most likely give the election to [Sleezebag] in the event of a tie.]

Nate Look, I think that [Sleezebag] basically has two paths right now. One is to win Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida. If he does that, he’s on the cusp of victory — he would just need 10 more electoral votes, which would probably come from North Carolina or Iowa and New Hampshire. This isn’t an easy path, but it is a fairly straightforward one if he can win Pennsylvania.

The other path, the one depicted in the chart, is to counter a loss in Pennsylvania with gains in Ohio, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada. Again, tough. But it would leave Clinton just short of the presidency, at 269 electoral votes.

With the exception of North Carolina, all of those states have a well-below average number of well-educated Republicans compared with the number of white working-class Democrats. So I don’t think it’s a preposterous combination.

Toni As you wrote Monday, a high number of white working-class Democrats is positive for [Sleezebag] (he has a good chance to take away some of those votes from Clinton). And a high number of well-educated Republicans is positive for Clinton (she has a good chance to take away some of those votes from [Sleezebag].)

Another Pathway: [Sleezebag] Wins Pennsylvania
Things would get a lot easier for Donald [Sleezebag] if he won the Keystone State.

Your comment on Pennsylvania dovetails with my other map, in which [Sleezebag] wins that state and wins the Electoral College, 279-259. Here, [Sleezebag] would win Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa and North Carolina. (In this case, he wouldn’t even need Iowa, but I figure that if he wins Pennsylvania, he’ll probably win Iowa). Of the two maps I did, I feel this may be the more realistic one for [Sleezebag]. Thoughts?

Nate Well, I’m not entirely sure about that. I guess what I’d say is that [Sleezebag] should hope that’s the easier path, because it implies that he can count on Pennsylvania as a top-flight battleground.

Toni The Clinton camp now seems to be treating Pennsylvania as a top-flight battleground. It recently decided to start an ad campaign in the state. And Clinton and Tim Kaine will campaign together there immediately after the convention, with stops in Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. So they’re not taking the state for granted. [Update: [Sleezebag] is campaigning in Scranton today.]

Nate I don’t really see how they can take it for granted. The state voted a hair more for Barack Obama than the nation as a whole in 2012, but it’s above average in terms of how much Obama depended on the support of white voters without a degree, who today are the voters abandoning Mrs. Clinton in big numbers. It has far more of those voters than Florida, Virginia, Colorado, Nevada or North Carolina. So if Mr. [Sleezebag] is going to win this race with a big, narrow push among white working-class voters, then that effect would seem to have a very real chance of manifesting itself in Pennsylvania.

Now, for that same reason, I think it’s easy to imagine how Clinton could survive a loss in Pennsylvania, with gains in those other states I just mentioned.

But it’s really only one of the few ways she can lose this race. So why shouldn’t they defend it?

I thought it was strange that it wasn’t in their original ad campaign.

Toni Right. When you do this mapping exercise, you realize how important Pennsylvania is. (The G.O.P. last won Pennsylvania in 1988.) In a close election, it seems crucial to [Sleezebag]. Without it, he has to win all of those five swing states we talked about earlier: Ohio, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada. Let’s assume those will be 50-50 states. If you flip a coin five times and hope to get five straight heads, your odds are just over 3 percent. But that’s what [Sleezebag] would need in this case. [Update: If you add Florida as a coin-flip state, which seems right, that makes it around 1.6 percent.]

Nate And it’s not just a coin flip. Those five states are really different.

Toni For one thing, Nevada, with a fairly large Hispanic population, is thought to lean to the left. But I’m curious about your take on New Hampshire. As you showed in your article Monday, it has plenty of working-class whites. But then consider that it’s right in the middle of a liberal region. Sure, New Hampshire has a long history of conservatism. But over time, people migrate from neighboring liberal states, like New York and Vermont. And that slowly takes New Hampshire toward the left.

Nate Well, New Hampshire has tended to move slightly to the left. But I think it may be a mistake to assume that Clinton can hold recent levels of Democratic support among white working-class people in the Northeast, even in New England.

Toni I also think back to how Jeanne Shaheen, a Democrat, hung on against Scott Brown in the New Hampshire Senate race in 2014. It was close, but she held him off against the grain of a dominant midterm year for Republicans.

Nate Well, Scott Brown was an out-of-state candidate.

Toni You’re calling him a carpetbagger?

Nate If you think that term applies outside of the South, then absolutely.

Look, the southeastern part of New Hampshire — where most of the people vote — is decidedly middle class. It’s very moderate. It has a long history of supporting conservatives in a variety of contexts. It was great for both Scott Brown and Donald [Sleezebag] in the primary. Western New Hampshire really has become eastern Vermont at this point, thanks in part to the sort of migration trends you’ve referred to among liberal expats.

Toni  We shouldn’t skip over this part of our maps: You and I put states like Virginia and Colorado into the Clinton camp. [Update: Clinton has stopped advertising in Colorado]. The demographics work well for Clinton in those two states, and the polling has been positive for her. That’s a big deal if it holds up.

But we also made Wisconsin blue. And yet Wisconsin’s demographics aren’t that much different from Iowa’s.

Where Clinton or [Sleezebag] Has More Ground to Lose

Democrats are dependent on white working-class voters in the Midwest, but Republicans are dependent on minorities and well-educated voters in the Sun Belt.

And Iowa seems to be a true tossup state, based on polling.

Nate Those two states don’t look very different in terms of those demographic numbers. If it weren’t for the polling data and the Clinton campaign’s behavior (no advertising in Wisconsin), I’d be inclined to say that Wisconsin’s a battleground, too. But we do have a lot of polling there, and it all tends to indicate that Clinton has a more comfortable lead than what we’ve seen in Iowa.

This doesn’t really show up in the simple demographic numbers, but I would note that [Sleezebag] was extremely weak in the Milwaukee suburbs in the primary. That’s the heart of the Republican base there, and I think he probably has a lot of work among those voters to become competitive.

If I were the Clinton campaign, I would still entertain airing advertisements in the Green Bay, La Crosse and Wausau media markets.

Toni People rage about a certain procedural issue during a campaign, then tend to forget about it once it’s over. But we should briefly review the recent change to the superdelegate system for Democrats. The Clinton and Sanders camps agreed to a deal, and the Democratic rules committee voted to bind roughly two-thirds of the superdelegates to state results, significantly cutting their influence.

When you consider a strong superdelegate system, I think some Republicans would say that the nation never needed it more than in this election cycle. And yet the Democrats are making this change.

Nate Ha. The Republican race would have been so different if they had Democratic rules on proportionality and superdelegates.

Who knows where it would have ended up? But it would have been very different for [Sleezebag].

If I were proposing the rules for either party, I’d probably eliminate superdelegates as a standard element of the process but put triggers in place to make them available in the event that they were needed — to resolve a deadlocked convention, if someone were indicted or killed, if there were reason to think that the early primary results were unrepresentative (say, a new candidate jumps in the race).

The two triggers: No candidate gets a majority of pledged delegates (either heading into the convention or on the first ballot); two-thirds of superdelegates vote to give themselves a vote on the floor.

I think that would be a high-enough bar that no one would presume that they were going to decide the race under anything other than extraordinary circumstances.

Toni It’s hard not to peek at polling numbers now, even though we know that they tend to be less predictive because of bounces during convention season. But does anything stand out to you about recent numbers you’ve seen?

Nate Not really. It looks like a fairly typical bounce that has left a tied race or a slight [Sleezebag] lead. There are still a lot of undecided voters, and there aren’t many polls showing [Sleezebag] near 50 percent. We’ll see where we are in a few weeks.

Toni It happened: Bernie Sanders gave Hillary Clinton his full support at the convention. (Never in doubt, right?) Any final thoughts on whether the Bernie holdouts might come around in the end?

Nate Well, I think the remaining Bernie holdouts are a diverse bunch. There are conservative white men who disapprove of Obama and Clinton, but still consider themselves Democrats.

There are people on the ideological left who might not ever come around; I’d guess a bunch of them didn’t vote for Obama in 2012. I’d guess these are the Bernie or Bust folks at the convention.

The biggest group, though, might be young voters who don’t trust Clinton very much. I think a lot will come around.

Many might not.













Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 01, 2016, 02:23:23 PM
I also found the current article for why people should dump T rump:
Quote
National SDS Calls for Students to Dump T rump

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X64JWNK392E/VuoOI9q7OtI/AAAAAAAAA7c/6Bbt5jpu3zI5l2dPXrhJ2ooT3Sk7CCNCA/s1600/12834709_221917534827320_1302211048_n.jpg)

For the past several months, Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) chapters across the country have led protests against Republican presidential candidate Donald T rump. Anyone who has been following T rump's campaign has seen examples of the war mongering and racist policies he supports. Deporting over 11 million undocumented immigrants, building a wall on the US-Mexico border, banning Muslims, and carpet bombing Syria are just a few examples of what T rump is trying to accomplish. SDS is anti-war, anti-racist, and supports legalization and tuition equity for all undocumented immigrants. It would be against everything SDS stands for as a progressive student activist organization, to not challenge T rump’s agenda or encourage people to stand up and fight back!

Donald T rump's right wing populism has become a rallying point for anti-immigrant, Islamophobic and white supremacist violence. Donald T rump’s refusal to condemn the KKK as a white nationalist organization, which was formed to attack the democratic rights won by African Americans through struggle, being an example of this. T rump’s campaign also has the support of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder and former leader of France's far-right National Front party, which campaigns mostly on anti-immigration policies. Overall, Donald T rump’s proposed state policies are against the interests of workers, people of color, women, and LGBTQIA+ people, while also supporting Wall Street’s wars abroad from Latin America to the Middle East.

In response to T rump’s statements and calls for attacks on oppressed people, SDS has mobilized campuses and communities to express their disdain for T rump and his aspirations. SDS chapters in Tampa, Florida, Tallahassee, Florida, Houston, Texas, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and West Chester, Pennsylvania, have organized several events in the form of “Dump T rump” protests, rallies, and piñata bashes, which have garnered the support of hundreds and thousands of people. SDS’ affiliates, such as the Progressive Student Union in Arlington, Texas, have also organized against Donald T rump and his bigotry. SDS in Chicago, Illinois, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, have co-hosted events with the aim of opposing T rump; SDS even took a role in organizing the Dump T rump protest in Chicago last week, which saw over 5,000 people demanding an end to systemic oppression and T rump’s support of it. This event caused T rump to cancel his Chicago campaign appearance, and subsequently flee the city.

SDS is nonpartisan, but we believe people have a right to protest T rump’s hate speech, especially as progressive students committed to actively struggling for social change across campuses. Every #DumpTrump protest from Tampa to Chicago has shown that what Donald T rump fears most is the power of the people, not other politicians. Students and all people have the power to unite against right-wing racists supported by or part of the powerful 1% like T rump. Such actions as Tallahassee SDS uniting hundreds of students against the KKK on campus, which historically received support from the U.S. government including the FBI and police departments, illustrate this fact. SDS is committed to leading campaigns that struggle against University Administrations, who are the 1% on campus that profit from systemic oppression, and who allow T rump’s hate on campus grounds!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 01, 2016, 02:26:39 PM
And for equality . . .

Quote
National Students for a Democratic Society on the Democratic National Convention

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SkBVANwU3KQ/V5ZAdS_tXHI/AAAAAAAAB7E/e8dmSfXc5holR6tPL75Hjj9I2zrNszf-gCLcB/s1600/13064582_581507858674162_2887655498676603330_o.jpg)
With the Democratic National Convention approaching, it has now been confirmed that Hillary Clinton is the Democratic Party nominee in the 2016 Presidential election. While SDS’s focus is primarily on building organizational power within our communities and carrying out direct action, this result is not irrelevant to us. Multiple chapters from SDS will be marching on the DNC along with many other organizations to protest the racist, warmongering platform of the Democratic Party.

Despite her rhetoric, Hillary Clinton ultimately represents the interests of the Wall Street billionaires and the rest of the 1%. As the perfect ‘status quo’ candidate, Clinton carries out a neoliberal agenda, having a history of racist, warmongering, anti­-immigrant, and anti­-worker pursuits and policies. Domestically, Clinton is notorious for “superpredator” bills contributing to mass incarceration, mass deportations, austerity, spending cuts, and the continued support of big business. Abroad, Clinton promotes war over peace, and has been involved in NATO­led wars against Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, as well as coups in Honduras and Ukraine. Hillary Clinton’s record and platform, on par with the policies of both major parties, contribute to the continued attack on all workers and oppressed people.

Clinton secured her nomination by outperforming Bernie Sanders, a candidate who is less of a ‘major player’ in the Democratic Party, but who was able to find a base of support in the youth. The Bernie Sanders campaign, despite his widespread popularity, demonstrates the need to continue as independent organizers. Ultimately, Bernie Sanders could not win the nomination because the interests which control the Democratic Party supported the Clinton campaign. As an organization that supports education rights, economic freedom, social justice, and many other causes that were important to the Sanders campaign, we invite those who wish to continue the struggle to join in political organizing to build people’s power.

While SDS has put out the call to “Dump T rump”, we are not letting the Democratic Party slide either. The neoliberal agenda pursued by the Democrats and Republicans alike is responsible for the economic crises, police brutality, mass deportations, and mass incarceration that have allowed for the rise of a racist, sexist, anti-­immigrant demagogue like Donald T rump. While the Donald T rump campaign is a more openly and acutely racist, anti­-immigrant, fear mongering platform, ultimately the interests of the people are not represented by either party. In fact many of the fears about a potential T rump presidency are already being actively carried out by the current Obama administration, including the deportation of more than 2.5 million immigrants, drone strikes in 7 different countries, anti­-worker austerity measures, and mass incarceration.

Ultimately, the only way to victory is through building people’s power. This is why National SDS is calling upon progressive students and youth everywhere to carry the momentum from the “Dump T rump” rallies forward into the marches on the Democratic National Convention. To those who are disillusioned, do not let the fight end with the Sanders campaign. Join us at the DNC, and then bring that fight back to your communities and schools, and build organizations of people’s power. Our only path to victory is through working together and building a mass movement independent of the establishment.

I cannot tolerate the thought of either Hillary or T rump as the president of the United States of America.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 02:31:37 PM
I'll buy half that...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 01, 2016, 04:20:40 PM
Since as I've said, Halloween sales are the only reliable predictor, I bring you this news: 

Looking at the expected numbers, stores are stocking [Sleezebag] masks 3-1 over Hillary. 

0 Johnson masks....I don't even know if one is available. 

It's still early enough to change, but that's the early indicators. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 04:24:37 PM
I hate to even say, given my poor betting record when it comes to the Pig, but there really is a huge sideshow factor feeding that, surely, that may not be reflected at all when it's grownups time and votes are for keepsies.  I still want to believe what I was saying a year ago, despite so many interim disappointments.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2016, 06:12:49 PM
I would suggest that the mask rules may not apply to women. They may keep their politics separate from their Halloween. A lot of women seem to like to get sexier for Halloween, and I think Hillary is on the frumpier side of Halloween costumes.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 06:17:34 PM
That's taking it easy - the Hilary masks I've seen pictured over the years are all hideous.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 01, 2016, 06:59:31 PM
A lot of women seem to like to get sexier for Halloween, and I think Hillary is on the frumpier side of Halloween costumes.

Don't make me post the links...just bear in mind there are sexy versions of both candidates. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 07:07:30 PM
Please don't make him post the links...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2016, 07:42:52 PM
Please don't post the links.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 07:47:54 PM
;lol
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on August 01, 2016, 08:18:01 PM
Do it.  I dare ya!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 01, 2016, 08:32:23 PM
;no
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 01, 2016, 11:21:56 PM
-clash-with-khan-family/2016/08/01/10ca7e10-57e8-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mccain-adds-latest-salvo-in-gop-dismay-over-[Sleezebag]-clash-with-khan-family/2016/08/01/10ca7e10-57e8-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mccain-adds-latest-salvo-in-gop-dismay-over-[Sleezebag)

John McCain, VFW condemn [Sleezebag] over attacks on Khan family

By Sean Sullivan August 1 at 1:48 PM 


Donald [Sleezebag] drew direct criticism from Sen. John McCain and the Veterans of Foreign Wars on Monday for upbraiding the Muslim American parents of an Army officer killed in Iraq in 2004. But the GOP presidential nominee refused to back down from his attacks, and a former aide argued that the soldier would still be alive had [Sleezebag] been president at the time.

The condemnations by McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a Vietnam veteran who was held captive; and the VFW, a well-known national group with a membership of 1.7 million, served as the most forceful rebuke yet by the military community to [Sleezebag]’s comments.

The escalating tensions, coming at the start of the general election campaign, were the latest turns in a bitter exchange that is dominating the presidential race and has frayed [Sleezebag]’s already delicate alliance with GOP leaders.

[‘We’ve never been challenged this way’: Military support groups demand respect for Khan family]

McCain (R-Ariz.), a respected figure on national security issues in the Republican Party, issued a written statement sternly reprimanding [Sleezebag].

“In recent days, Donald [Sleezebag] disparaged a fallen soldier’s parents,” said McCain, who was taken prisoner during the Vietnam War. “He has suggested that the likes of their son should not be allowed in the United States — to say nothing of entering its service. I cannot emphasize enough how deeply I disagree with Mr. [Sleezebag]’s statement. I hope Americans understand that the remarks do not represent the views of our Republican Party, its officers, or candidates.”

[GOP dismay grows as [Sleezebag] stands his ground]

McCain, who has tangled with [Sleezebag] before, most notably after [Sleezebag] said last year that McCain was not a war hero because he had been “captured,” added: “While our party has bestowed upon him the nomination, it is not accompanied by unfettered license to defame those who are the best among us.”

Brian Duffy, the recently elected commander-in-chief of the VFW, released a statement saying the organization “will not tolerate anyone berating a Gold Star family member for exercising his or her right of speech or expression.”




Duffy added that “there are certain sacrosanct subjects that no amount of wordsmithing can repair once crossed.”

The admonishments went beyond the words of House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). Over the weekend, they expressed support for the Khan family and reiterated their opposition to [Sleezebag]’s proposed ban on most Muslims. But neither mentioned [Sleezebag] by name and neither abandoned support for the nominee.

Khizr and Ghazala Khan participated in a round of television interviews Monday morning in which they slammed [Sleezebag]. Khizr Khan spoke at the Democratic National Convention last week, with his wife at his side. The couple’s son, Army Capt. Humayun Khan, was killed by a car bomber in 2004. He was 27.

“This candidate amazes me — his ignorance,” Khizr Khan said on NBC’s “Today.” “He can get up and malign the entire nation — the religions, the communities, the minorities, the judges. And yet, a private citizen in this political process, in his candidacy for the stewardship for this country — I cannot say what I feel? That proves the point: He has not read the Constitution of this country.”

Ghazala Khan, who teared up in one interview, rejected [Sleezebag]’s suggestion in an interview with ABC News that she may not have been “allowed” to speak during her Democratic National Convention appearance.

[In [Sleezebag] clash with Khan, hints of new cultural and political rift] 

“It doesn’t have to do anything with my religion,” she said on “Today.” She wrote in a Washington Post op-ed that she is still experiencing raw emotions about her son’s death and could not bring herself to speak at the convention.

[Sleezebag] took to Twitter on Monday morning to lash out against Khizr Khan and the media. He argued that “radical Islamic terrorism,” not Khan, should be the focus of his exchange — just minutes after slamming Khan.

“Mr. Khan, who does not know me, viciously attacked me from the stage of the DNC and is now all over TV doing the same — Nice!” [Sleezebag] said in his initial tweet.

On Saturday, [Sleezebag] issued a statement saying, “While I feel deeply for the loss of his son, Mr. Khan who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution, (which is false) and say many other inaccurate things.”

Corey Lewandowski, [Sleezebag]’s former campaign manager, defended his ex-boss Monday and argued that the Khans’ son would still be alive if [Sleezebag] had been president.

“Their son is a hero. And every person who has ever died fighting for our country and their families are heroes,” Lewandowski said on CNN, which employs him as a paid contributor. “The difference is, we’ve got 7,000 soldiers who died, $6 trillion wasted in wars overseas and, if Donald [Sleezebag] was the president, we would never have had, and Captain Khan would be alive today.”

[Sleezebag] regularly casts himself as an early critic of the Iraq War. The Post’s Fact Checker found that there is “no sign that [Sleezebag] opposed the invasion or was vocal about it prior to the invasion.”

Lewandowski was fired by [Sleezebag] in June.

Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton has vigorously defended the Khans. She tweeted a link to Ghazala Khan’s op-ed on Sunday night with the words: “Your courage is inspiring, Mrs. Khan — and you’re right.”

Family members of 17 service members killed in the line of duty wrote a letter to [Sleezebag] calling his comments about the Khan family “repugnant” and demanding an apology. The letter was coordinated by Karen Meredith of the group VoteVets, which is aligned with Democratic candidates.

Late Sunday, [Sleezebag] supporters, including longtime adviser Roger Stone, circulated unsubstantiated accusations from an anti-Islam website about Khizr Khan. Stone tweeted a link to a post that, among other things, accuses Khan of being a “Muslim Brotherhood agent who wants to advance sharia law.”

Both Khans forcefully denounced terrorism Sunday, and Ghazala Khan said [Sleezebag] is ignorant when it comes to understanding Muslims. “If he studied the real Islam and Koran, all the ideas he gets from terrorists would change, because terrorism is a different religion,” she wrote.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 02, 2016, 12:29:58 AM
YOU CAN"T MAKE THIS STUFF UP.

-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/]http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/31/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

[Sleezebag] says Putin is 'not going to go into Ukraine,' despite Crimea

By Eric Bradner and David Wright, CNN
Updated 4:30 PM ET, Mon August 1, 2016


Washington (CNN) — Donald [Sleezebag] said Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin won't make a military move into Ukraine -- even though Putin already has done just that, seizing the country's Crimean Peninsula.

"He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want," [Sleezebag] said in an interview on Sunday with ABC's George Stephanopoulos on "This Week."

"Well, he's already there, isn't he?" Stephanopoulos responded, in a reference to Crimea, which Putin took from Ukraine in early 2014.

[Sleezebag] said: "OK -- well, he's there in a certain way. But I'm not there. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this. In the meantime, he's going away. He takes Crimea."

[Sleezebag] attempted to clarify his position on the conflict between Ukraine and Russia in a series of tweets Monday morning, after he was criticized for his muddled response in the interview. He explained that when he said Russia wouldn't move into Ukraine, he was referring to a time when he is president.

"When I said in an interview that Putin is 'not going into Ukraine, you can mark it down,' I am saying if I am President. Already in Crimea!," [Sleezebag] wrote.
And he argued that the conflict over Crimea was the fault of the Obama administration, writing: "So with all of the Obama tough talk on Russia and the Ukraine, they have already taken Crimea and continue to push. That's what I said!"

[Sleezebag] also pushed back against the criticism during a campaign event Monday in Columbus, Ohio.

"You want to go back? You want to go back and have World War 3? That was on Obama's watch," [Sleezebag] said of the invasion.

[Sleezebag] also responded to criticism that he has been too complimentary of Russian President Vladimir Putin: "Wouldn't it be great if we got along with Russia?" he said.

During the ABC interview, Stephanopoulos interjected to note that [Sleezebag] has suggested he could recognize Russia's claim on Crimea over Ukraine's -- and [Sleezebag] didn't back away from that possibility in the interview.

"I'm going to take a look at it," he said. "But you know, the people of Crimea, from what I've heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also ... just so you understand, that was done under Obama's administration."

[Sleezebag] added: "And as far as the Ukraine is concerned, it's a mess. And that's under the Obama's administration with his strong ties to NATO. So with all of these strong ties to NATO, Ukraine is a mess. Crimea has been taken. Don't blame Donald [Sleezebag] for that."

The Clinton campaign responded later Sunday, with senior policy adviser Jake Sullivan saying: "What is he talking about? Russia is already in Ukraine. Does he not know that? What else doesn't he know?"

"Today, ([Sleezebag]) gamely repeated Putin's argument that Russia was justified in seizing the sovereign territory of another country by force. This is scary stuff," Sullivan said in a statement. "But it shouldn't surprise us. This comes on the heels of his tacit invitation to the Russians to invade our NATO allies in Eastern Europe."


Stephanopoulos also pressed [Sleezebag] on changes to the Republican platform removing calls for the provision of lethal weapons so the people of Ukraine can defend themselves, which [Sleezebag] said he had nothing to do with.

And he asked about [Sleezebag]'s claims in recent years that he has a personal relationship with Putin.

"I have no relationship with Putin. I have no relationship with Putin," [Sleezebag] said.

"Just so you understand, he said very nice things about me. But I have no relationship with him. I don't -- I've never met him," said [Sleezebag].

But in a November 2015 Republican primary debate, [Sleezebag] had said of Putin: "I got to know him very well because we were both on '60 Minutes,' we were stablemates."

CNN's Jeremy Diamond contributed to this report.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 02, 2016, 12:19:48 PM
Do it.  I dare ya!

:b:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 02, 2016, 09:25:23 PM
We have terrible people on my forum.  Tut tut.



Quote
Richard L. Hanna: Congressman, R-NY, Is 1st Republican Congressman to Back Hillary Clinton

"While I disagree with her on many issues, I will vote for Mrs. Clinton," Hanna said in an op-ed for Syracuse.com, adding that GOP candidate Donald [Sleezebag] is "deeply flawed in endless ways."
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Richard-L-Hanna/540215452800285?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6314327612422247290 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Richard-L-Hanna/540215452800285?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6314327612422247290)

;b;  Somebody finally manned up...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 02, 2016, 09:36:45 PM
The Dude has a point-

-should-insist-on-including-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-in-the-debates/]http://hotair.com/archives/2016/08/01/roger-stone-[Sleezebag]-should-insist-on-including-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-in-the-debates/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2016/08/01/roger-stone-[Sleezebag)

Roger Stone: [Sleezebag] should insist on including Gary Johnson and Jill Stein in the debates
posted at 10:01 pm on August 1, 2016 by Allahpundit

He has two options on the debates. It’s not an option to skip them entirely, although no doubt he’d prefer to do that. That would be interpreted, correctly, as cowardice, which would devastate his image as an alpha male. (Bad enough that he’d run away, but to run away from a woman?) So he’s stuck doing at least one. The smart play would be to study his ass off and shock the country with his surprising grasp of policy at the first debate. Everyone will be expecting [Sleezebag] the loudmouthed clod; if instead they get [Sleezebag] the statesman battling Hillary to a standstill, it’ll show millions of casual voters that all of the hype about [Sleezebag] being unready for the presidency was nonsense. And rest assured, there will be many millions of casual voters watching: The first debate between Romney and Obama drew nearly 70 million viewers, double what their speeches at the conventions that summer drew. A [Sleezebag]/Clinton debate might blow the roof off in terms of viewership. As such, [Sleezebag] delivering a surprising standout performance could change the election overnight by moving huge swaths of undecideds into his column. And, having delivered that, he could then preserve his victory by boycotting the second and third debates under whatever pretext he likes. All he has to do is turn in one excellent debate. And all he has to do to achieve that is prepare diligently.

But he’s [Sleezebag], so he won’t. Which brings us to option two: Take a page from the primaries and pack the stage with as many fringe candidates as possible in order to reduce his own speaking time. The less he has to speak, the fewer opportunities there are for him to show that he has nothing more than a bumper-sticker grasp of policy, and Roger Stone knows it. Having Johnson and Stein onstage in a two-hour debate is the difference between [Sleezebag] having to fill 45 minutes against a thoroughly prepared Clinton versus half that amount of time. I’m not sure offhand what pretext he might come up with for demanding that they be included, though. Stein in particular is an asterisk candidate. Johnson has flirted with the 15 percent threshold in some polls, but I think it’s uncomfortable to [Sleezebag]’s ego to insist under any circumstances that someone else should be allowed to share his spotlight. The pretext that’ll be given, I guess, is that this is a populist year and therefore every candidate with a few points of support in the polls deserves a voice onstage. The Debate Commission might not agree, but even if worse comes to worst [Sleezebag] will still earn some cheap goodwill from Johnson and Stein fans by going to bat for them. It’s a perfectly logical move to make. So he’ll make it.

If you missed it this weekend, incidentally, he’s already grasping for excuses to skip the debates

The debate schedule was set more than a year ago by the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is bipartisan. The fact that [Sleezebag] is straining for an excuse to delegitimize them is telling; it’s not often that you’ll find the [Sleezebag] hype machine suggesting that voters might prefer to watch something besides him, especially when it’s the biggest night of his life. The truth, of course, is that Team Hillary should be more irritated about the debate schedule than [Sleezebag] is. They’re convinced she’s going to ace this. They should want maximum eyeballs for the slaughter. [Sleezebag]’s taking the lead on complaining because he wants an excuse later for backing out of the last two debates. I tried to get them to change the dates, he’ll say, but they wouldn’t listen. The world is so unfair.

Exit question: Does [Sleezebag] have a legit gripe about the debates going head to head with the NFL given that his base is working-class white men, a prime audience for football? If the answer is yes, is that mitigated any by the fact that pretty much every cable company in America includes a DVR with its cable box? You can record the debate and watch it after the game, you know. Or watch one of the eight thousand different recordings of it that’ll be uploaded to YouTube immediately afterward.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 02, 2016, 09:48:28 PM
The article author or the congressman?

Yeah to the article; look at how Sarah Palin did well in the VP debate w/ low expectations going in and managing not to humiliate herself - if you're stuck with low expectations, you can definitely get a lot more mileage than you really deserve by just not screwing up...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 02, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
-voters-look-a-lot-like-kasich-supporters/?ex_cid=2016-forecast]http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-anti-[Sleezebag]-voters-look-a-lot-like-kasich-supporters/?ex_cid=2016-forecast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-anti-[Sleezebag)

Aug 2, 2016 at 3:23 PM
The GOP’s Most Anti-[Sleezebag] Voters Look A Lot Like Kasich Supporters

Hillary Clinton received the backing of Rep. Richard Hanna of New York on Tuesday. Hanna is the first Republican member of Congress to say explicitly that he will vote for Clinton in the fall rather than just expressing opposition to [Sleezebag]. Hanna may not be the last elected Republican to jump to Clinton, but he illustrates the contours of anti-[Sleezebag] Republicans nicely: The most anti-[Sleezebag] GOP voters look a lot more like John Kasich’s supporters (and Hanna) than Ted Cruz’s.1

There seem to be two main camps of Republican opposition to [Sleezebag]. One, embodied by Kasich, objects to [Sleezebag] on experiential and temperamental grounds — [Sleezebag] is playing to cultural grievances on issues such as immigration, and the Kasich camp wants a more inclusive GOP. The other, embodied by Cruz, objects to [Sleezebag] on ideological grounds — he’s not a conservative, they argue.

Both Cruz and Kasich have refused to endorse [Sleezebag]. But, as Hanna shows, the Kasich camp appears to be the one more likely to oppose [Sleezebag] in the general election.

During the primary season, Kasich did best in the Northeast and East North Central Census divisions. He also scored big with the well-educated and liberal-to-moderate Republicans. All of these characteristics match Hanna, a college-educated moderate from the Northeast. Among all Republicans who match these descriptions, [Sleezebag] got just 65 percent to Clinton’s 20 percent and 15 percent undecided in a June SurveyMonkey poll2 done for FiveThirtyEight. That is, to put it mildly, incredibly poor for a Republican presidential nominee among a subset of Republican voters. In the same poll, [Sleezebag] got 85 percent among all voters who either identified as Republicans or leaned toward the GOP.

Cruz voters, on the other hand, are examples of a very different animal. After Cruz declined to endorse [Sleezebag] at the Republican convention, Cruz faced some revolt from his own Texas delegation. This comports with the idea that voters who match the profile of Cruz’s supporters in the primary are mostly backing [Sleezebag]. Cruz did best in the Mountain West, West North Central and West South Central Census divisions (i.e., Kansas, Texas and Utah). He also did well among self-identified conservatives and those who attended church at least once a week. In the SurveyMonkey poll, [Sleezebag] earned 90 percent to Clinton’s 5 percent among Republican and Republican leaners who match these descriptions.3 That is, [Sleezebag] is doing far better among people who look like Cruz voters than he is among Republicans overall. Another way to put this is that the conservative base of the Republican Party seems to be betting on [Sleezebag].

What do the Hanna endorsement and the polls suggest going forward? It seems that the 2016 race is continuing a long-term trend of the Republican Party. As I wrote before, the Republican Party power structure has been trending away from voters who look like Kasich supporters to Republicans who appear most inclined to back [Sleezebag] in the fall. [Sleezebag] may be a different kind of candidate, but he seems to be accelerating but not otherwise changing existing trends.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 03, 2016, 12:10:07 AM
The article author or the congressman?

Yeah to the article; look at how Sarah Palin did well in the VP debate w/ low expectations going in and managing not to humiliate herself - if you're stuck with low expectations, you can definitely get a lot more mileage than you really deserve by just not screwing up...

I typed a long reply to this once and lost it. The article author, although I can't refute the Congressman.  I think option #2 in the article sounds more [Sleezebag].

As for the 538 article, it makes sense. Cruz voters are issues oriented TheoCons, people don't actually like him. Kasich was one of the most qualified candidates, and possessed the most character. It follows that candidate-oriented voters would balk at [Sleezebag], and issue zealots who could hold their nose for Cruz could take it a couple of steps further and vote for [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 03, 2016, 12:40:33 AM
Absolutely to both.

-Also Hanna - and you have to admit that took guts.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 03, 2016, 05:05:41 AM
Since this has been a controversial issue, I'll post the whole article-
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659254/EXCLUSIVE-Gary-Johnson-Religious-freedom-and-non-discrimination-laws.html (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659254/EXCLUSIVE-Gary-Johnson-Religious-freedom-and-non-discrimination-laws.html)

 
EXCLUSIVE: Gary Johnson: Clarifying my views on religious freedom, Mormons

A call for balance between religious freedom and non-discrimination

By Gary Johnson

For the Deseret News
Published: Tuesday, Aug. 2 2016 2:45 p.m. MDT

Updated: 3 hours ago
A few days ago, trying to maneuver through a “scrum” of reporters in Philadelphia, I was asked about my views regarding religious freedom and non-discrimination laws.

Given the divisiveness and pain that have accompanied several state religious freedom laws, I approach attempts at legislating religious exceptions to anti-discrimination laws with great sensitivity and care.

Religious beliefs have played a vital role in forming America’s character, as well as my own. I was raised as a

Lutheran, and I believe in God and consider my faith and involvement with organized religion to be an important part of who I am.

Yet there have also been times in our history when religion has been invoked to justify serious harm. In years past, opponents of interracial marriage, desegregation and other efforts to protect civil rights too often cited scripture and religion in making their arguments.

To be blunt, certain politicians have twisted religious liberty and used it as a tool to discriminate.

Thus, in response to a question thrown at me while walking down a street (in the rain), I expressed my reservations rather emphatically — and cited the experience of Mormons as a case-in-point where religious persecution resulted in violent episodes right here in America.

My point was that even a respected, peaceful people experienced tragic harm in the name of religion and was, in fact, persecuted by the government itself by politicians who opposed their beliefs and practices.

And on a personal level, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints came to mind because I had been in Utah the day before, as my campaign is actually based in Salt Lake City. I am well aware of the painful history of government interference with Mormons and the practice of their faith.

In part because of this unique history, I believe Utah has found an appropriate balance in a religious freedom law that serves as an example to the rest of the country that non-discrimination and religious freedom are not opposing forces, but can instead go hand in hand.

I want to be clear. I believe we can, and must, strike a balance between our shared American values of religious liberty and freedom from discrimination. My concerns lie with the possible consequences of politically-driven legislation which claims to promote religious liberty but instead rolls back the legal protections held by LGBT Americans.

This does not in any way diminish my respect for and commitment to the legitimate protection of the right to believe, to practice and to express deeply-held religious beliefs.

When it comes to civil rights and the LGBT community, states are best served when they take an inclusive approach of "fairness to all." Interestingly and commendably, Utah did just that last year with the passage of the so-called Utah Compromise.

At a time when several states, including Indiana under Governor Mike Pence’s leadership, took a divisive approach by introducing religious freedom bills that were clearly aimed at LGBT individuals, Utah took a different path. The goal was fairness for all: Fairness for people of faith seeking to live their religion, and fairness to the rights of gays and lesbians.

This approach was actually led by many leaders of the LDS Church. Having crossed the plains of the United States seeking the freedom to worship as they chose, Mormons have a keen appreciation of how minority groups can suffer under majority rule.

Rather than seek to pass a law with a thinly-veiled intent to discriminate against gays — or to permit everyday businesses to discriminate against gays — this "Utah Compromise" provides an example of how we can strike the balance between religious freedom and civil rights.

The Utah compromise barred discrimination against lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered individuals in employment and housing. In addition, the Utah law requires the office of every county clerk to be available to solemnize same-sex unions. At the same time, the law provides reasonable protections for the freedoms of speech and association of bona fide religious organizations — and made the religious and LGBT protections inseverable.

It is a Utah solution that appropriately reflects the state’s diverse
and strongly held freedoms — and was supported by the LDS Church and the state’s leading LGBT groups.

In a March 2015 article in Time magazine, Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, contrasted this approach with the discord in Indiana:

"There’s a better path. We saw it taken in Utah just a few weeks ago. The state passed new religious-conscience accommodations, but they were tied to new gay-rights protections. Both sides walked away feeling more free to live according to the lights of their consciences. Both got a win and supported the outcome.”

America is big enough to accommodate differences of opinion and practice on religious and social beliefs. As a nation and as a society, we must reject discrimination, forcefully and without asterisks.

Most importantly, as president I will zealously defend the Constitution of the United States and all of its amendments.

Gov. Gary Johnson is the Libertarian Party's presidential nominee. His running mate is former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld. Learn more at johnsonweld.com.







Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 03, 2016, 05:22:45 AM
Absolutely to both.

-Also Hanna - and you have to admit that took guts.

Yes. It's one thing to say things in private, and another to burn the bridge in public.

Meanwhile [Sleezebag] was praising Ryan's primary election opponent, while refusing to endorse Ryan. ( Cheeseheads are politically engaged, and don't hesitate to hold elections. Congressional primaries are this month. )  [Sleezebag] threatened to support Ryan's primary opponent if Ryan didn't publicly endorse [Sleezebag]. Ryan did, and I think he's been regretting it ever since.

I don't know where Ryan's breaking point is, but [Sleezebag]'s attack on the Gold Star Family is must be straining the promise.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 03, 2016, 08:37:09 PM
http://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2016/08/03/gary-johnson-now-polling-15-amongst-midwest-states-says-cnn-poll/ (http://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2016/08/03/gary-johnson-now-polling-15-amongst-midwest-states-says-cnn-poll/)

Gary Johnson Now Polling 15% Amongst Midwest States Says CNN Poll
Posted at 12:30 pm on August 3, 2016 by Brandon Morse

According to CNN's new July 29-31st poll, Gary Johnson's popularity among the midwest states has increased.

Johnson is now polling at 15%, just about below half of the Republicans and Democrats, who are polling in at 37% and 39% respectively.




While the Libertarian party still can't top 10% in other parts of the nation, his 15% in the midwest is interesting because this part of the country is mostly comprised of swing states, where it's anybody's game to win or lose.

How this will effect [Sleezebag] or Clinton in the long run is anyone's guess. The Libertarian party is definitely bleeding votes from both parties. Reports vary on who Johnson is hurting more, but recent polls says he's taking more votes from Clinton than he is [Sleezebag].

If this is true, then come election time, Johnson will be a major thorn in Clinton's side as the Libertarian party saps her slim lead in these states.

Still, while we approach the end of election season, a lot can happen in this short amount of time. Johnson himself went from polling at 13% to 9% in a matter of weeks. However, there's no telling where CNN's polling will wind up after Wednesday's Libertarian town hall.

It should be remember that Johnson is also - currently - appearing on ballots in 36 states, while the Green Party is not. Those who abandoned Hillary for this 3rd option, who can't vote Green will likely either stay home, or vote for Johnson.

This proves again that while Johnson looks small fry nationally, he's a bigger fish in statewide polling. The Republican and Democrats choice to ignore the Libertarians this election may cost it.



While the Libertarian party still can't top 10% in other parts of the nation, his 15% in the midwest is interesting because this part of the country is mostly comprised of swing states, where it's anybody's game to win or lose.

How this will effect [Sleezebag] or Clinton in the long run is anyone's guess. The Libertarian party is definitely bleeding votes from both parties. Reports vary on who Johnson is hurting more, but recent polls says he's taking more votes from Clinton than he is [Sleezebag].

If this is true, then come election time, Johnson will be a major thorn in Clinton's side as the Libertarian party saps her slim lead in these states.

Still, while we approach the end of election season, a lot can happen in this short amount of time. Johnson himself went from polling at 13% to 9% in a matter of weeks. However, there's no telling where CNN's polling will wind up after Wednesday's Libertarian town hall.

It should be remember that Johnson is also - currently - appearing on ballots in 36 states, while the Green Party is not. Those who abandoned Hillary for this 3rd option, who can't vote Green will likely either stay home, or vote for Johnson.

This proves again that while Johnson looks small fry nationally, he's a bigger fish in statewide polling. The Republican and Democrats choice to ignore the Libertarians this election may cost it.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 01:06:23 AM
Gleanings-

* [Sleezebag] seems to be unraveling. If he isn't going crazy, he's making those around him do so. A donor "wants to break both of his thumbs" Newt has used the word "unacceptable". Christie has distanced himself. Rudi Julliani is rumored to be part of an "intervention", but to do this you have to go through his children to get to him. Rience Preibus has looked into the rules for replacing [Sleezebag] should he quit the race.

* from Reason -* It's the independents, stupid. Here's a Joe Hunter sentence worth pondering: "If the election was held today, among independents who know who he is, Gary Johnson would win outright."

*Johnson/Weld has a Town Hall tonight on Andersen Cooper/CNN 9PM Eastern

*Lots of stories about [Sleezebag] picking fights with everybody but Hillary ( who he has upgraded from "The Devil" to "founder of ISIS") While it may be acceptable for him to ridicule establishment politicians such as Ryan and McCain, he looks like a bully going after a crying baby and a Gold Star family.

* Hillary was in a garment factory calling [Sleezebag] out for making his merchandise in China.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 01:16:21 AM
Crying baby?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 01:22:45 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/why-hillary-clinton-keeps-lying/493841/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/why-hillary-clinton-keeps-lying/493841/)

Why Can't Hillary Clinton Stop Lying?

The Democratic presidential nominee came off a successful convention week in Philadelphia and landed right back in hot water with another fabrication.

Ron Fournier
 | Aug 1, 2016

This is a note to Clinton Democrats—a desperate plea, actually. Your candidate staged a winning convention in Philadelphia: big stars, tight messaging, and a compelling case against her rival, Donald [Sleezebag].

The Republican nominee followed up by smearing a war hero’s family, revealing his ignorance about Russia’s incursions into Ukraine, denying a relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin that he had previously claimed, and failing to quell suspicions that his team changed the GOP platform to protect Putin’s interests.

Hillary Clinton may be rising in the polls as a result, which is good news for people like me across the political spectrum who find [Sleezebag] to be vacuous, soulless, and temperamentally unfit for the presidency.

Yet I’m not angry at [Sleezebag]; I expect him to be repugnant. I am angry at Clinton, because she followed up her convention with another unnecessary lie; another excuse for people to distrust her; another thin reed upon which undecided voters could justify a belated allegiance to a man who former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called “a dangerous demagogue.”

On Sunday, the former secretary of state told FOX News’ Chris Wallace that FBI Director James Comey cleared her of misleading the public about her rogue email server at the state department: “Director Comey said my answers were truthful, and what I’ve said is consistent with what I have told the American people, that there were decisions discussed and made to classify retroactively certain of the emails.”

That’s wrong and she knows it, which makes it a lie.

“Clinton is cherry-picking statements by Comey to preserve her narrative about the unusual setup of a private email server,” wrote Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler, who awarded Clinton the maximum four “Pinocchios” for her whopper. “This allows her to skate past the more disturbing findings of the FBI investigation.”

Read here if you want to know about the FBI’s findings. In addition, her actions were an assault on the Freedom of Information Act and the hallowed concept of legislative oversight.

And yet, in my mind, the case against Clinton is not as disturbing as [Sleezebag]’s mendacity, megalomania, intolerance, and intellectual slovenliness. With Clinton and [Sleezebag], the two most unpopular presidential candidates in the modern era, there is no equivalence.

I’m angry at Clinton because I expect better. The country needs better. I say again: If [Sleezebag] becomes president, the world will have Clinton to blame.

Her dishonesty could push an unknown number of independent and undecided voters into [Sleezebag]’s camp or toward a non-major-party candidate. If too many swing voters walk away from Clinton because she destroyed her credibility or because they don’t want to condone her behavior, the nuclear codes go to [Sleezebag].

That is why Clinton’s advisers, senior Democrats, and members of the liberal media need to stop covering for Clinton. Stop repeating her spin. Stop spreading her lies. Stop enabling her worse angels. It’s too late for Clinton to come clean, but honorable Democrats should at least insist that she stop muddying the water.

Please, for the sake of the country, tell her: Stop lying.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 01:23:23 AM
Crying baby?

I have to make dinner, will explain later.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 01:35:17 AM
That's pretty rich of him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
-ashburn-virginia-crying-baby/]http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/02/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-ashburn-virginia-crying-baby/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/02/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

Ashburn, Virginia (CNN) — Donald [Sleezebag], trying to reassure a distressed mother with a crying baby, said Tuesday that he loves hearing babies cry at his rallies and told her not to worry -- only to change his mind just a moment later.

"I love babies. I hear that baby cry, I like it," [Sleezebag] said at a campaign event here as a baby could be heard crying in the audience. "What a baby. What a beautiful baby. Don't worry, don't worry. The mom's running around, like, don't worry about it, you know. It's young and beautiful and healthy and that's what we want."

But less than two minutes later, as the baby continued to wail, [Sleezebag] took back his words.

"Actually I was only kidding, you can get the baby out of here," he said to laughs. "I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I'm speaking. That's OK. People don't understand. That's OK."


Later on Tuesday, Hillary Clinton's running mate, Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, speaking about the incident, asked, "You wonder who the baby is."

"I saw that Donald [Sleezebag] kicked a crying baby out of an event earlier today, so as I'm thinking about pre-K, sometimes you wonder who the baby is. Right? You wonder who the baby is," the former Virginia governor said to laughter and clapping.

He later tweeted, "First [Sleezebag] attacked the Hotel Roanoke. Then a Gold Star VA family. Today, he kicked a baby out of a VA rally. Virginia is not for haters!"

***************

As for the Hotel Roanoke, [Sleezebag] booked an event in a conference room, overfilled it, then complained that the air conditioning wasn't working ( they checked it out, it was working fine ),and tried to stiff them on the bill. Last I heard, the hotel was owned by Norfolk- Southern, regardless, they weren't about to be intimidated by [Sleezebag] and his chisseler tactics, and it became news.

I guess I haven't been keeping up with posting all of the negativity. I expect it to get worse now that we're into the last 100 days of the campaign.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 02:40:14 AM
I am not embarrassed to have not been keeping up with posting all of the negativity...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 04:20:56 AM
How did the town hall go?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 05:34:34 AM
We DVR'd the Town Hall, and the Mrs. has other viewing priorities.
I haven't seen it yet.

Predictably the complaints are mostly coming for Libertarians complaining about a lack of ideological purity.

Then there are those who claim that Gary is for open borders, when that is not his position. He is for the liberal issuing of work visas, so that the job-seekers will have background checks and pay Social Security and other taxes. [Sleezebag]'s Alma Mater Wharton has done a study which proved  that is the strategy with the greatest economic growth.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 01:02:07 PM
I imagine he's for the generous issuing of work visas, not so much the liberal... [blinks] ;)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 04:22:16 PM
Yeah.


SO, I saw most of it.  As to be expected, they're more polished after all of the interviews they've done. The camera didn't return to the gallery once they'd asked their questions, so I don't know how satisfied people were with the answers, and Johnson/Weld  must have told they had to hold it to 1 minute answers.



A Bernie supporter who'd been considering Jill Stein asked what they had in common, to paraphrase, he said about 75%- civil rights, marijuana reform, foreign non-intervention, fighting crony capitalism, etc. Where we part ways is economics, my theory and I may be wrong, is that most Sanders supporters seek equality of opportunity rather than equality of condition. Government can't really equalize us economically and we wouldn't be happy about it if they tried, but if it's about fighting against unfair advantages, I've always done that. Pivoted into vetoes as Gov.

At which point Cooper was kind of stunned and explained he couldn't remember hearing a politician say "I may be wrong", or "I don't know" before. Applause. Gary explained- If you always tell the truth, you don't have  to remember what you said. If you can't admit your mistakes, you can't fix the problem. More applause.

Well, I have to leave and do stuff. See you later.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 04:29:04 PM
I'll look forward to it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 08:42:54 PM
It's happening already... that article the other day where I said "the dude has a point"-

FOX has Johnson at 12% post convention, before the CNN town hall.

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/third-party-included-presidential-debate/ (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/third-party-included-presidential-debate/)

SHOCKING: Debate Commission May “Give An Inch” to 3rd Party for 15%


 Darrell England
 
 August 3, 2016
 
[Sleezebag]’s debate complaints may have just unintentionally helped Libertarian Party and Gary Johnson

By: Darrell England

One of the keys to getting elected as President of the United States of America is to first participate in the presidential debates. However, actually getting into the debates has almost always been a problem with “third party” candidates.

Gary Johnson, who is currently the closest by far to reaching the minimum debate commission requirements of 15% in polling, filed a lawsuit in September of last year to include both Libertarian and Green candidates in the debates. But the lawsuit may not be necessary for Gary Johnson to be included after all, as CNBC reports that Frank Fahrenkopf, co-chairman of the Commission on Presidential Debates, suggested the commission:


… might consider giving an inch to a third-party candidate who is close enough to the cutoff point.

This is following Republican Nominee Donald [Sleezebag]’s complaints about the debates using the term “rigged”, even though the commission set the debate schedule over a year ago.

[Sleezebag] is complaining about two scheduled debate dates while the “minor” parties have complained for decades that there is an active effort to keep them out of the debates entirely, especially after recently raising the requirements to 15% in polls while commonly being unmentioned in the actual polling. [Sleezebag] has enjoyed the republican party’s “major” party status, to always being mentioned in the polls, and yet voices dissatisfaction beyond the privileged polling to the debate commission. However, he may have triggered the commission to show some leniency to a “third party” in response to a growing concern of “minor” parties feeling “blocked” from the debates. This act of good faith may actually help put out some of the negative images the bipartisan commission has received concerning a “rigged” system for many others if this reach is actually extended to include a “third party” candidate.

Even Roger Stone, Political Insider and [Sleezebag] confidant, tweets:
paraphrase- [Sleezebag] should insist the Johnson and Stein be included in any televised debates.

However, [Sleezebag] may not want to share the debate stage with what he describes as “fringe” candidates. If he’s complaining about two dates, wouldn’t he also complain about sharing his speaking time? It appears the commission’s more important concerns may be to become more generous to “minor” party complaints rather than a couple of dates that were scheduled over a year ago. Also, it may be considered less “rigged” if there was a future tripartisan, rather than just a bipartisan commission consisting of only the two current “old” parties.

Read more: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/third-party-included-presidential-debate/#ixzz4GOUafeWJ (http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/third-party-included-presidential-debate/#ixzz4GOUafeWJ)
Follow us: @TheLibRepublic on Twitter

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 08:55:18 PM
Man, Johnson gets into the debates and doesn't come off stupid fringe -he won't- or somehow get marginalized/not-called-on -definitely possible- he gets 20% or more in the general for not being Clinton or Pig, automatically.

Predict that forces behind the scenes (for one, members of the House o' Reps, who I bet desperately don't want to be put in the untenable position of picking on the Republican side) realize this and he never gets into the debates...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 09:50:40 PM
All I know for sure politically is that anything can happen this year, and already has.

I didn't know if the Libertarians had enough pragmatism to nominate Johnson Weld. I don't know if they'll make it into the debates. I am pretty sure they'll reach 5% in the general this year and establish the party so that it won't be so difficult or expensive to get on the ballots in the future. I will consider it a defeat if that doesn't happen.

But as Gary has said all along, with Weld to lend the ticket solid credentials as well as fund raising skills, they can get some main stream exposure, make it into the polls and make it into the debates.

After all, they are qualified, candid, and since they don't have enough legislators to ride their coat tails, they will have to be bi-partisan, rather than polarizing. Those are things people say they want for a change.

If that happens, they could win the whole thing outright, and I think they would be favorites in a House election if it goes past a first ballot.

But having experienced the Perot campaign, and seeing the networks convince half of the would-be Perot voters that he didn't have a chance to win, I'm not holding my breath awaiting a Johnson victory. I guess I don't have faith in the national electorate.

But I do have faith that Clinton will be Clinton-  high-handed and disingenuos, and [Sleezebag] will be [Sleezebag]- egotistical, narcissistic, bullying, greedy, and uninformed. Both teams will be digging for dirt and throwing mud. At some point, either or both will slip again, and if Johnson is standing there to take up the slack something significant could happen.

Who knows, we might even amend the Constitution, to abolish the electoral college and institute a ranked voting system.

It's that kind of year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 09:58:16 PM
Much as I hate the Electoral College -without let or hindrance, I do- I pretty much oppose to the death anyone going within a mile of the Constitution in the prevailing climate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 04, 2016, 11:25:42 PM
True, not the best climate for it.

Gleanings-

* NPR- "And right now, the prevailing story line has the greater voting public perceiving T rump through the wrong end of its telescope — a figure no longer larger than life but much reduced, and getting smaller every day."

* ABC- "Donald T rump's campaign is admitting that the Republican presidential nominee never saw a video of the U.S. offloading wooden pallets of euros, Swiss francs and other currencies in Tehran, even though he described such a video in full detail yesterday. "

I guess he musta missremembered it.

*538- T rump May Start Dragging GOP Senate Candidates Down With Him

* Politico- "Republican presidential nominee Donald T rump, have said she came to the United States legally, her own statements suggest she first came to the country on a short-term visa that would not have authorized her to work as a model. T rump has also said she came to New York in 1996, but the nude photo shoot places her in the United States in 1995, as does a biography published in February by Slovenian journalists.

So, there are indications that she was one of those illegal immigrants, taking jobs from Americans while posing as a tourist. We'll probably hear more about it soon.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 04, 2016, 11:40:57 PM
Siiigh.  It's just sad.

Did I bother to mention how colossal my contempt for the Pig was last year after he announced but before he started getting publicity, or did I wait?  I swear he was on my radar by the mid-80s, and I've always thought he was horrible...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2016, 08:23:14 PM
I must admit I'm surprised. I thought that the judge would continue to stall on this case until it became moot.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/05/judge-quashes-gary-johnsonjill-stein-deb (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/05/judge-quashes-gary-johnsonjill-stein-deb)

Well, I seem powerless to highlight anything beyond the url on that page today.

The judge threw it out on grounds that Johnson and Stine had no standing in the matter on first amendment and anti-trust challenges, had suffered no personal harm, and the debate forum was private rather than public.

Semi-personal anecdote: In connection with the Reform party, I became acquainted with an attorney who regularly tried cases before the state supreme court, and in higher courts in Philadelphia. He was running for a seat on the state supreme court, in order to point out the corruption there at the time, such as one justice hiring his son as a law clerk for $100K/year, which was real money in the late 80s. Another justice had  spent a similar amount on office renovations ( I think it was wood paneling and gold leaf), as he believed that each justice was equal to the governor in status and deserved grandeur accordingly. Basically they suffered from hubris and had no respect for taxpayer's money.

Years later he filed in federal court in Philadelphia about a candidate's legal eligibility for office, and the judge threw it out, saying he didn't have legal standing. It was a Democratic judge and a Democratic candidate. I would have thought that any citizen who would be represented by an illegal fraud could claim they were cheated.

Oh well. They went to law school, and I didn't.

I would think that any debate which is broadcast is no longer "private", as they would have no expectation of privacy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2016, 08:34:13 PM
Computer crashed and restarted-

From another Reason article-

[As far as I know, a second separate lawsuit with the intention of getting into the debate is still in process. That suit is against the Federal Elections Commission, very roughly arguing that the Court should "grant summary judgment for Plaintiffs, and direct the FEC to do its job, which is to enforce the law and put an end to the CPD's biased, anti-democratic, and fundamentally corrupt and exclusionary polling rule."]

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/05/gary-johnson-debate-lawsuit-lawyer-bruce (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/05/gary-johnson-debate-lawsuit-lawyer-bruce)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2016, 09:31:11 PM
Lots of links and supporting graphics in this one.

 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-georgia-becoming-a-battleground-state/?ex_cid=2016-forecast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-georgia-becoming-a-battleground-state/?ex_cid=2016-forecast)

Is Georgia Becoming A Battleground State?
By Harry Enten

Filed under 2016 Election

Hillary Clinton is riding high in the polls. How high? A poll released by the Atlanta Journal Constitution on Friday found Clinton leading [Sleezebag] in Georgia, 41 percent to 38 percent. That follows other Georgia polls published this week also showing a close race in the Peach State. A Democratic presidential nominee hasn’t carried Georgia since 1992. So how big a deal is it that Clinton could win Georgia?

First, [Sleezebag] is still a favorite in the state. He has a 55 percent chance to win there,1 according to our polls-only forecast, and a 72 percent chance per our polls-plus model. (Our now-cast for Georgia, which projects each candidate’s chances of winning a hypothetical election today, show Clinton has a 59 percent chance.) Chances are that a Clinton win in Georgia would merely be an electoral cherry on top of an election blowout. Georgia has 16 electoral votes (tied for eighth most in the nation), but it has only between a 3 percent and a 4 percent chance of providing the decisive vote in the Electoral College, according to our models.

Still, the mere fact that Georgia has more than a minuscule chance of determining who wins the election is remarkable. We ran the different scenarios in which Georgia proves crucial in Clinton’s winning, and they all seem to have a fairly familiar theme. They look something like this (image’s from 270toWin.com’s handy mapmaker):

In these maps, Georgia is part of a “New South” backup plan for Clinton if [Sleezebag]’s plan to win states in the Midwest and Northeast is successful. In these examples, you’d imagine [Sleezebag] appealing to white voters without a college degree in states such as Iowa, New Hampshire, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Clinton then counters these victories by appealing to voters in the more diverse Southern states with growing populations, including Florida, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia. All of these states are at least one-third nonwhite.

The African-American population in Georgia, in particular, has grown a ton in recent years. Black voters made up just 23 percent of Georgia voters in the 2000 election compared with 30 percent in the 2012 election. Much of this growth has occurred in the Atlanta suburbs, in Rockdale and Clayton counties. Not surprisingly, those two counties are also first and fourth, respectively, in terms of the U.S. counties that trended the most Democratic from the 2000 to 2012 election.

Of course, having a large minority population isn’t a guarantee that a state will go Democratic (see Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, etc.). The white population in most of these states leans overwhelmingly Republican, but a Democrat, in order to carry the state, has to do not terribly with white voters. In 2012, President Obama lost white voters by about 60 percentage points in Georgia. That’s better than he did in Alabama and Mississippi but not good enough to carry the state. Obama lost white voters by between 25 and 35 percentage points in Florida, North Carolina and Virginia in 2012, all states he carried that year. The AJC poll, meanwhile, has Clinton losing white voters by just 37 percentage points. That movement probably is because of voters with at least a college degree, as we are seeing nationwide. Clinton is winning college-educated voters by 11 percentage points according to the AJC poll, after Obama lost them by about 20 percentage points in Georgia in 2012. Clinton and [Sleezebag] are tied among non-college-educated voters, which is about the same result as in 2012.

Combine the trend of well-educated voters and [Sleezebag]’s earning of just 2 percent of support black voters in the AJC poll, and Clinton has a real shot to win Georgia.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 05, 2016, 10:24:13 PM
The Green Party Convention started yesterday in Houston.
I'm struggling to find news about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/02/politics/jill-stein-ajamu-baraka-vice-presidential-candidate/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/02/politics/jill-stein-ajamu-baraka-vice-presidential-candidate/)

Green Party candidate Jill Stein names running mate
By Eugene Scott, CNN
Updated 3:14 PM ET, Tue August 2, 2016


Washington (CNN) — Presumptive Green Party presidential nominee Jill Stein has named Ajamu Baraka, an international human rights scholar and activist, as her running mate.

"Ajamu Baraka is a powerful, eloquent spokesperson for the transformative, radical agenda whose time has come -- an agenda of economic, social, racial, gender, climate, indigenous and immigrant justice," Stein said in a statement Tuesday. "Ajamu's life's work has embodied the immortal words of Dr. Martin Luther King: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Stein, a doctor, is expected to be formally nominated as the Green Party's presidential candidate Saturday at its national convention in Houston.

Stein spokeswoman Meleiza Firueroa told CNN that Baraka was preparing a statement in response to his selection.

Baraka was the founding executive director of the US Human Rights Network and coordinator of the Black Left Unity Network's Committee on International Affairs.


Cornel West endorses Green Party candidate Jill Stein

Baraka also has served on several boards, including Amnesty International, the National Center for Human Rights Education and the Center for Constitutional Rights. He is a member of the Green Shadow Cabinet and an associate fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies.

Stein said in her statement that she considered offering the spot to former Bernie Sanders surrogate Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator.

"The fit just wasn't right, as Senator Turner is still committed to try to save the soul of the Democratic Party. While we may not agree on whether that is possible, I respect her passion to fight for the people and wish her the best in her effort," Stein said.

A CNN/ORC poll released Monday found Stein polling at 5% with registered voters. Democrat Hillary Clinton leads with 45% and Republican Donald [Sleezebag] has 37% of the vote, with Libertarian Gary Johnson receiving 9%.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2016, 02:30:09 AM
http://wonkette.com/605128/jill-stein-didnt-want-you-dumb-old-bernie-voters-anyway (http://wonkette.com/605128/jill-stein-didnt-want-you-dumb-old-bernie-voters-anyway)

I'm struggling to even highlight text, I suspect my third laptop crash of the day is approaching.
The above is an article about Jill Stein's VP pick, since she couldn't coax Bernie to join the Greens at the top of her ticket.

The guy seems really smart, and really radical, and I don't think it reflects well on Jill, who(m?) I thought was an intelligent and impassioned activist accommodating an "out there" platform.
Now I have to reconsider my assumptions.

I give up. I can't do anything with that page. Anyway, Jill Stein and Ajuma Baracka forgot their Dale Carnegie.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2016, 02:34:46 AM
I feel you on the machine sucking, problem, man.  Mine's on the way out.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2016, 05:46:00 AM
Gleanings-

* Guess I missed this in the crowd of negative headlines.
-university-trial/]http://usuncut.com/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-university-trial/ (http://usuncut.com/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)
Not only are they going forward with the civil suit against [Sleezebag] University, but the fraud & racketeering charge as well.

* Hillary was dumb enough to double down, saying she must have been talking past Chris Wallace, and short circuited her response about the FBI ( when she said they confirmed she was telling the truth). But she stands by the part about never sending or receiving e-mails marked classified on her private server. WRONG! Admit it , apologize and move on. Or simply move on, but don't continue to insist that you didn't do it. You did. You'll get another pants on fire for that one, and a PAC ad, too, just to remind people you can't be believed.

* The Chicago Tribune editorial board came out with a demand to include Johnson in the debate, not because they think he can win the Whitehouse, but because he has fresh and interesting ideas that a lot of people might like.

* [Sleezebag] came out endorsing Ryan, McCain, and New Hampshire Senator Kelly Ayote. It's a little late, and it sounds like a flip-flop rather than an apology. It kind of underscores that [Sleezebag], insulted all POWs earlier this year, before insulting the Gold Star family. I have a feeling that this is why he is slipping in the polls, well, combined with his personal history of going to military school and then getting a draft deferment, and then joking that he always wanted one, but this is a way easier way to get it, when a veteran gave him his Purple Heart. I think his "base" of white guy baby boomers without college educations care about that stuff. Maybe that will stop the losses in the polls.

*

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 06, 2016, 09:15:03 PM
Just watched the video of Gary and Bill's first rally, estimated at 500 people by the police. He also took questions, so it was sort of a town meeting.

He quipped that [Sleezebag] was watching the Olympics to see how high the Mexican pole vaulters can leap.

As a trial stump speech, a lot of it was lines I'd heard before, and the stuff about the merits of being honest was again well received.   I was struck by the positivity. He seems to be the only candidate excited about the times we live in and the potential of the future.

It also occurs to me that he is, as people from New Mexico have said, a good listener, and while not promising to do something that would require an act of Congress, he is willing to fix things when possible when people make reasonable requests.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 06, 2016, 09:16:33 PM
;b;

I want this man to do well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 12:03:42 AM
Me, too, obviously.

Today he held another rally, this time in Utah. Indications are that there were more people than when Hillary held an event in the same venue. No objective news on that event as yet. But it's an encouraging sign, really encouraging. I feared he may have alienated too many Mormans with some careless comments he made while being pursued by reporters in the rain outside the Democratic convention. That was compounded by the prop-up [Sleezebag] press. Johnson apologized and explained in The Dessert News, saying he doesn't want discrimination against gays or religions, and he thinks the Utah Compromise got it right.

My take on things is that not only is he pretty honest, but that his concern for fairness is why he fights cronyism and discrimination of all kinds. I'm really encouraged that Johnson was welcomed, rather than protested in Utah. I found this article while searching for news. I thought it was pretty informative, so I'm going to copy the whole thing here-

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659450/Heres-how-Gary-Johnson-feels-about-guns-Black-Lives-Matter-and-purple-politics.html?pg=all (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659450/Heres-how-Gary-Johnson-feels-about-guns-Black-Lives-Matter-and-purple-politics.html?pg=all)

GRR_  not happening. Locking precedes crashing.  Maybe later.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 12:40:09 AM
Maybe... with enough refreshing I can cobble this together...

The article is heavily linked and has some video clips, so it might be better to read it there-

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659450/Heres-how-Gary-Johnson-feels-about-guns-Black-Lives-Matter-and-purple-politics.html?pg=all (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865659450/Heres-how-Gary-Johnson-feels-about-guns-Black-Lives-Matter-and-purple-politics.html?pg=all)

Here's how Gary Johnson feels about guns, Black Lives Matter and purple politics
by Herb Scribner

If you’ve at all followed Utah and national politics this summer, chances are you know about Gary Johnson.

For the uninitiated, Johnson is the Libertarian Party’s presidential nominee for president who’s been touted as an alternative option for voters uninterested in Democratic Party nominee Hillary Clinton and Republican nominee Donald [Sleezebag].

Johnson has seen his popularity soar in Utah because, as national news outlets have reported, Utahns don’t really favor Clinton or [Sleezebag]. In fact, Clinton and [Sleezebag] are basically tied in recent polls for the often-seen deep red Beehive State, according to The Hill. Some members of the LDS Church, who make up the bulk of Utah’s population, don’t favor [Sleezebag] for his immigration policies, while many other Utahns supported Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton in the primary earlier this year.

But Johnson has struck a chord with some Utahns for a few reasons (he currently has earned favor of 26 percent of the vote in Utah, after all). As Vox’s Timothy B. Lee reported, Johnson’s actually more of a Republican candidate for president than [Sleezebag], which may sit well with the deep red state. Johnson’s campaign strategist Ron Nielson is also a Utah Mormon, which is why Johnson’s based his national campaign in Utah, too.

And there’s been rumors that former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a member of the LDS Church who helped organize the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics, may endorse Johnson and his running mate, former Massachusetts Gov. William Weld, which has comforted a lot of Utahns in supporting him.

Winning Utah, Nielson told the Deseret News, is part of Johnson’s strategy to win the national election.

“I think everyone can agree there’s a big fall-off from the [Sleezebag] wagon in the state of Utah, so I think that opens some big doors,” Nielson told the Deseret News. “And I also think there’s a lot of Bernie supporters who don’t really know if they want to support Clinton, so that creates some space for us. I wouldn’t say it’s the most likely state, that would probably be New Mexico or Colorado, but things change all the time, and Utah is certainly one of the top rung of states and we’ll be making a lot of effort here. Johnson will be here all the time.”

Nielson said if Johnson can win Utah, he may steal some electoral votes from [Sleezebag] and Clinton in the national election, which could block both candidates from receiving the 270 votes needed to win the presidency. Johnson hopes to force the House of Representatives then to vote in the next president (as the U.S. Constitution advises), allowing him to convince politicians to vote for him.

Still, Johnson has some roadblocks ahead of him. Just last week, the Libertarian candidate upset some of the Utah Mormon population for what he said about religious freedom and the LDS Church.

"I mean under the guise of religious freedom, anybody can do anything," Johnson said, according to The Washington Examiner. "Back to Mormonism. Why shouldn't somebody be able to shoot somebody else because their freedom of religion says that God has spoken to them and that they can shoot somebody dead?"

Johnson later apologized for the remarks, both to the national media and to the Deseret News in an exclusive piece in which he clarified his thoughts.

“In part because of this unique history, I believe Utah has found an appropriate balance in a religious freedom law that serves as an example to the rest of the country that non-discrimination and religious freedom are not opposing forces, but can instead go hand in hand,” he said.

Johnson still faces a national roadblock. He currently hovers around 12 percent in national polls, which is below the 15 percent threshold needed for him to compete in the national televised debates (though there’s speculation that the debate commission will allow him into the debates anyway).

CNN has hosted a few Town Hall events for Johnson and Weld (they’ll soon do the same for Green Party candidate Jill Stein). The most recent one occurred Wednesday night, and we’ve rounded up some of the highlights for you below.

Johnson and Weld are selling optimism and purple politics.

It’s not secret that Johnson and Weld have their work cut out for them if they want to make it to the national debate stage. But the two candidates said during CNN’s Town Hall that they were going to push for a purple ticket, one where both sides of the political aisle can come together, according to UPI.

This kind of ticket, Johnson said, is a way for them to sell “optimism,” UPI reported.

"Our proposals would not say, 'Take that you stupid D Party or you stupid R Party,' it would be 'here's what we think this is kind of in the middle, can we come together around this' and the recipients of that information would not feel attacked so they might be more likely to come to the table," Weld said, according to UPI.

Johnson supports social tolerance and financial responsibility.

A Bernie Sanders supporter, who said he’s #NeverHillary, asked Johnson why he should vote Libertarian instead of Democratic.

Johnson told the supporter he agrees with Sanders on 70 percent of the major issues — specifically that he “supports gay marriage, abortion rights, drug legalization and an end to military intervention,” according to Reason.

But Johnson said he believes in capitalism and the free market, something that could sit well with conservative voters.

America needs to ‘wake up’ about racial discrimination.

Shetamaia Taylor asked Johnson how he felt about the Black Lives Matter movement and racial discrimination issues in the United States.

Johnson admitted he didn’t know much about racial discrimination before the rise of BLM, but that the movement has opened his eyes, according to Politico.

"What it has done for me is that my head's been in the sand on this," Johnson admitted. "I think we've all had our heads in the sand. And let's wake up. This discrimination does exist, it has existed, and for me, personally, slap, slap, wake up."

Weld said the government should be held to that standard, too.

"I think we have a national emergency in the number of male black youth who are unemployed without prospects," Weld said, according to Politico. "They're four times as likely to be incarcerated if they have intersection with law enforcement as white people are. Their educational opportunities are not there. We have to get them in to education and just concentrate the power of the government, trying to make sure that there are jobs available for them. It's a national emergency and when there's a national emergency, the government has to respond. Libertarian or no libertarian."

Johnson doesn't want any discrimination — against religion or otherwise

The Libertarian running mates didn't seem all-in on religious freedom. But, like he said in the aforementioned exclusive for the Deseret News, Johnson admitted he doesn't want any sort of discrimination, according to CNN.

"I fear that under the guise of religious liberty, the LGBT community is being discriminated against," Johnson said. "I don't want to support discrimination in any form whatsoever."

He wouldn’t change anything about availability of semi-automatic and automatic weapons.

A Hillary Clinton supporter asked Johnson if Americans should be allowed to buy semi-automatic and automatic weapons, specifically AK-47s and AR-15s.

Johnson said outlawing purchases of these guns probably would create more issues, according to Rare.

“Well, right now that is a category of weapon that encompasses 30 million weapons — the semi-automatic,” he said, according to Rare. “Let’s just say we passed a law that outlawed semi-automatic rifles. I think that maybe you would have half of those rifles turned in and the other half of those rifles would be owned by law abiding citizens that are now going to become criminals.”

More so, Johnson said the issue of automatic weapons is misunderstood, and that he wouldn’t change the standing laws about the availability of these weapons should become president.

“I think it’s a misunderstood issue,” he continued. “There are no automatic rifles currently allowed for sale. That went away decades ago.”

Johnson admitted how he feels about prostitution and sex trafficking

Johnson has faced criticism before for wanting to legalize prostitution, according to CNN. But he clarified in his Town Hall speech that he would leave it up to the states to decide how prostitution should be handled.

He did admit, though, that prostitution is a mostly victimless crime — except for the worker.

"The victim is the prostitute," Johnson said of criminal prostitution.

He said you should vote for who you believe in.

Johnson and Weld said they both expect people to waste their votes this coming fall by selecting candidates only because they align with their chosen party and not their own political beliefs.

But Johnson said it’s important to vote for who you believe in, no matter what side of the aisle, according to The Week.

"A wasted vote is voting for somebody that you don't believe in, and if we're going to continue to vote for the lesser of two evils, that's still evil," Johnson said.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 01:00:42 AM
Here's the latest ad, "One day, our best America yet" down to one minute. I know, you're going to say "it's still too long".

But this is the most positive thing I've seen since Rubio tried to invoke Regan's "Morning in America"

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153254030284364/ (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153254030284364/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 02:36:00 AM
No surprise, but I think Jill Stein locked down the Green Party nomination. This is an article about her, rather than the convention.

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/08/06/19882/9-things-know-about-jill-stein (https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/08/06/19882/9-things-know-about-jill-stein)

9 things to know about Jill Stein
Massachusetts doctor is Green Party's presidential nominee
by Michael Beckel, Jarred Bennett

Abolishing student debt. Increasing the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Guaranteeing a right to health care.

Sound familiar? Those issues — which wouldn't be out of place in a Bernie Sanders stump speech — are also among the top priorities of Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein, who won her party's nomination today in Houston.

And during an election season in which many voters and donors unexpectedly flocked to Sanders, Stein is hoping to harness some of that energy for her longshot presidential bid now that Sanders has conceded and endorsed former Democratic Party rival Hillary Clinton.

Stein — a medical doctor and activist from Massachusetts — was also the Green Party's presidential nominee four years ago. Then, she earned about 0.36 percent of the vote nationally and appeared on the ballot in 36 states and the District of Columbia. She only garnered more than 1 percent of the vote in two states: Maine and Oregon.

But that hasn't deterred Stein from calling for a "Green New Deal" and a "truly representative democracy," which would include "open debates" as well as ranked-choice voting and public financing of campaigns.

During her 2012 campaign, Stein raised about $1.3 million, including $64,000 of her own money and about $370,000 in public funding.

Stein is again expected to receive some public financing for her 2016 presidential bid, as is Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson. The better-funded campaigns of Clinton and Republican presidential nominee Donald [Sleezebag] are raising their funds strictly from private sources.

Here are nine other things to know about the Green Party's presidential standard-bearer.

Who is Jill Stein? She's a doctor, activist and Green Party presidential candidate from Massachusetts.

2016 is not Jill Stein's first election. She was also the Green Party's presidential nominee in 2012. And she's run for office in Massachusetts. Her biggest electoral success? Town meeting representative in the town of Lexington. 

Nearly 50 percent of the $860,000 Jill Stein has raised so far for her 2016 presidential bid has come from small-dollar donors giving $200 or less.
Federal disclosures show that Jill Stein and her husband, Richard Rohrer, are together worth at least $3.9 million.

Among the stock holdings of Jill Stein and her husband: at least $100,000 worth of Disney, at least $100,000 worth of Home Depot and at least $50,000 worth of Merck.
 
Jill Stein has invested about $170,000 of her own money into her Green Party campaigns over the years — including $40,000 for her 2016 presidential bid.

Jill Stein raised about $1.3 million for her 2012 Green Party presidential bid — including about $370,000 in public funding.

Jill Stein earned 0.36 percent of the presidential vote in 2012. She did best in Maine and Oregon — where she got 1.1 percent.

Jill Stein twice ran for office against Republican Mitt Romney — for president in 2012 and for governor in 2002.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2016, 02:57:00 AM
Try to find out what Sanders is up to this week if you can.

Loading that Johnson vid now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2016, 03:02:52 AM
Here's the latest ad, "One day, our best America yet" down to one minute. I know, you're going to say "it's still too long".

But this is the most positive thing I've seen since Rubio tried to invoke Regan's "Morning in America"

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153254030284364/ (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153254030284364/)
No, the length must be okay, 'cause he kept my unbored attention all the way through and made good points.  The problem is --- he just doesn't seem presidential and I don't even know what that is...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 05:23:03 AM
This seems to sum up the Bernie News best-
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-sanders-message-20160805-snap-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-sanders-message-20160805-snap-story.html)

HAving hardware struggles again-


Anyway, it's his editorial making the case for voting for Hillary in order to defeat [Sleezebag], and how it's still a revolution.

* In other news 3 of the officers in the DNC were fired in connection with the WikiLeaks scandal last week.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2016, 11:18:53 AM
American Nazi Party: Chairman of Political Group Says Donald [Sleezebag] Win Would Be an Opportunity, Report Says

Rocky Suhayda said on his radio program last month that a [Sleezebag] win would "be a real opportunity for people like white nationalists, acting intelligently, to build upon," Buzzfeed reported.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/American-Nazi-Party/106225522741206?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6316025911050680243 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/American-Nazi-Party/106225522741206?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6316025911050680243)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 07, 2016, 10:02:18 PM
I was going to link the Washington Post article about that.

* LA Times op-ed :  "If Hillary Clinton Wins, Can She Claim a Mandate?"
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/ (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/)

She's making the case that [Sleezebag] is unfit for office, but not really making the case against TPP or for her tax proposal, which tends to leave her with status quo.

* Libertarian reporter John Stassel was asked why Johnson isn't really getting traction, and he came down on Libertarian solutions don't soundbite so well.

That is as may be, but I think there's more at play. Predictably major party candidates get a polling bounce when they mathematically secure the nominations, and again when they have their conventions. So even if the Libertarians , Greens, and Constitutionalists, do get a detectable bounce, it's only once, and the news coverage is miniscule by comparison.

In Johnson's case he had enough media impact and support to get noticed in the polls, then he had to overcome Jill Stein, who was fighting for the same oxygen, then the conventions hit back to back, and a lot of people made up their minds that one major party candidate wasn't so intolerable, and the other was. So some of the bounce came at his expense. Now he has clawed back to double digit support again, although today's ABC national poll still has him at 8, the same as they had him in mid-July.

A sound byte? How about- "More programs, more laws, and more wars have only given us more debt, less privacy and less security. Freedom is a better value."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 07, 2016, 10:07:16 PM
John Stassel is a tool anyway.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2016, 02:20:38 AM

* Libertarian reporter John Stassel was asked why Johnson isn't really getting traction, and he came down on Libertarian solutions don't soundbite so well.


There was a couple times over the last 2 months where they've come down hard to one side of things, and thus lost my interest or belief it's really a middle common sense solution.  Lack of air time is still a major hurdle to overcome as well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2016, 02:23:41 AM
MAJOR.  -No doubt.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 08, 2016, 06:00:33 AM
Here's a new ad for Jill Stein-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mpnkgYrX8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mpnkgYrX8)

Here's an interview, and kind of an idea of what would happen to Hillary if Jill appeared on the debate stage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECH9xwzN1Mw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECH9xwzN1Mw)

****

She's Left of Bernie Sanders, and probably the smartest person in the race. Strangely, I probably agree with her 60-something % of the time (I side with), maybe more on the problems than the solutions.

But in some other ways there are real problems with her candidacy, even assuming you agree with the Green Party. 1) Underqualified. Her only elected office was a town council type position. She got 500-something votes, so maybe about what I got running for school board. Since then, she's been a "professional candidate", rather than an office holder, so she's better at speeches and debates that compromises, quid pro quos , and other things people do in the government to get things done. 2) Unelectable without the Sanders endorsement or participation, which she did not get. Too far left. Support in too few states. 3) If she were somehow able to come in 3rd place in an electoral college with no majority, she has no bipartisan appeal in The House. Unlike Johnson, she doesn't hesitate or hold back when it comes to criticizing individuals in both parties. She's a bridge-burning revolutionary. 4) Even if she were elected she would have no Congressional constituency, no bipartisan opportunities, and in general, no authority to enact her reforms.

I think she knows all of that, and she's really running just for the 5% necessary for federal funds and party recognition. If that's what she's doing, she doesn't let on.

As a perpetual professional candidate, she is also really shrewd at parsing words. She is great at dancing around the ant-vaccine issue. As a doctor, you might expect her to give a straightforward "vaccines save lives" answer. She tends to treat the doubts about them seriously, without risking her professional reputation. Like wise, she ridicules Big Pharma, but is heavily invested in Merck.  The Greens have some flaky ideas about medicine as well as economics. 

****
Here's an opinion piece-

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/290437-jill-stein-the-liberal-pseudo-scientific-demagogue (http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/290437-jill-stein-the-liberal-pseudo-scientific-demagogue)

August 05, 2016, 04:15 pm
Jill Stein: The liberal pseudo scientific demagogue
    By Anhvinh Doanvo, contributor

The cringe-worthy [Sleezebag]-Clinton race has led Bernie Sanders’ supporters to shift their support to protest candidates like Jill Stein. As a true liberal, they say, she is eminently qualified to lead the progressive movement. However, her position out of the spotlight has led her to engage in demagoguery empowering medical conspiracy theories, rather than intellectualism to elevate her candidacy.

In a campaign event, she called the use of technology in education a “corporate ruse.” Apparently, “we should be moving away from screens at all levels of education”. Regarding wireless networks, she said, “should not be subjecting kids’ brains to that.”

The World Health Organization has stated that radiation “exposures from base stations range from 0.002% to 2% of the levels of international exposure guidelines.” Humans, in fact, absorb “up to five times more” radiation from FM radio and television than WiFi technology.
Animal studies have demonstrated no link between WiFi and cancer, “even at levels that are much higher than produced” by wireless networks. Scientists have observed no adverse effects relating to brain function, body temperature, or other physiological functions.

The greatest health risk from electronic devices is not the radiation they produce, their encouragement of a sedentary lifestyle. But this must be weighed against the vast importance of computing to all workers, from clerical employees to doctors and big data social scientists. Condemning President Obama’s initiatives for expanding computer programming and software education in schools as a “corporate ruse” in an essence condemns the progress of science and society itself.

It’s clear that Jill Stein’s candidacy is more a war of words than a sincere effort to confront the complex realities of public health and all of the other issues faced by this country.

Like Ted Cruz and Donald [Sleezebag], Stein is merely interested in pointing to the angriest voice in the crowd and amplifying it, without any regard for the scientific truth.

To demonstrate her interest in developing novel solutions for real issues in public health, she must temper her supporters’ conspiracy theories and endorse the prevailing medical literature produced by non-profit and publicly accountable research institutions.

She must focus more on the potential conflicts of interest between the revolving doors between regulatory agencies and the private corporations they control or are controlled by. Doctors themselves should be brought under the scope of her campaign as many are paid to promote more expensive but biochemically identical drugs to their patients.

These conflicts of interest have had real consequences: according to a 2013 Gallup poll, the Food and Drug Administration has been rated about as positively as the CIA and the EPA, with just 45% saying that they are doing a good job, as opposed to 60% for the CDC.

Citizens that do not trust health-related agencies and their doctors have no incentive to follow the health guidelines by medical professionals. With Stein’s unique background as a doctor-turned-politician, she is in a unique position to push this matter to the forefront Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

But despite her medical education, Stein has chosen to go down the mendacious road of identity politics. Her fight as an anti-establishment candidate is not leadership for a chicken in every pot but deceit for a tin foil hat on every head.




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2016, 02:32:32 PM
Anecdotally, I'm seeing 2 different Hillary ads running.

One official 'I endorse this message'.

And one [Sleezebag] is the Devil attack ad by some superpac thingamabob. 

No other candidates running ads locally. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2016, 02:48:48 PM
There's been a number of anti-Pig ads in heavy rotation for weeks in the Charlotte NC TV market -a lot more pac and citzens-for stuff than anything else- most of them have the virtue of really making their point effectively, most especially the one of innocent children watching him swear during speeches, the one being flogged to death the last several days being of Letterman making a fool of him...

...And ALL have the very non-trivial shortcoming of showing his face and using his name and featuring clips of him every. single. commercial. break. for two hours of news programming.  ALL are instantly old the second time you see them; and it's attention, which is what the Pig want more than anything, and decent people should deny him that.

I don't have a better idea at this late date, but it's really off-putting, not only the Pig on TV constantly, but his greatest hits of awfulness CONSTANTLY repeated.  I can't wait for it to be over.  Please God, let it stop.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 08, 2016, 03:31:45 PM
Yeah, the Letterman one is playing here. 

The approved message one, I believe was all positives on Hillary, no mention of the opposition. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 08, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
Yeah; we're getting that, too, but not constantly.

Our awful governor, Pat McCrory of trans bathroom and Duke Power can pollute at will infamy, is up for reelection with the state attorney general Roy Cooper, opposing, so that's seeing a lot of action, too.  Cooper, to his credit, is being mostly positive, saying "This isn't about one bad law" while wearing jeans and an blue button-up work shirt  - but you can do that when the pac will cover the attacks for you, and they certainly have, going both ways for months now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 08, 2016, 10:12:40 PM
Mostly the political ads here are former senator Russ Fiengold attacking sitting senator Ron Johnson.
Somebody is spending a fortune trying to take back this senate seat for the Democrats. Feingold is polling +6 or 7%.

We see some Hillary ads, don't really notice if they're local or national. Mostly it's the kids watching [Sleezebag] misbehave. Saw the Letterman ad once. I heard "Hillary, and I  approved this message" a couple of times, but don't recall the ad.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 08, 2016, 11:01:57 PM

From 538 just now, using their "polls plus" forecast, the model with the most accurate record of predicting the electoral college on election day -

Electoral votes
Hillary Clinton 322.2
Donald [Sleezebag] 215.6
Gary Johnson     0.1

Popular vote
Hillary Clinton 48.9%
Donald [Sleezebag] 44.4%
Gary Johnson  5.3%

It considers things like convention bounces, the economic outlook, and third party voters breaking towards major parties nearer the election.
****

Just when you thought Hillary was walking away with the election with odds of  86.3% to [Sleezebag]'s 13.7% -

I found this last night, and it kept my mind and heart racing until about 5AM.
http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/06/news/romney-mccain-bush-other-major-republicans-set-to-endorse-libertarian-gary-johnson-for-president/1713.html (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/06/news/romney-mccain-bush-other-major-republicans-set-to-endorse-libertarian-gary-johnson-for-president/1713.html)

Romney, McCain, Bush, other major Republicans Set to Endorse Libertarian Gary Johnson for President

Rebel Republicans Will Hold an Event in late August to Endorse Johnson & Weld over Clinton & [Sleezebag]

By Stan Greene
Observer Staff Writer 

Mitt Romney, George Bush 41 and George Bush 43, as well as other mainstream Republican party figures, are set to endorse Libertarian Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson next week, say sources within the "Never [Sleezebag]" movement and other disaffected Republicans.

Johnson, the former Republican governor of New Mexico, is known for having balanced the budget during his 8 year tenure. The Libertarian's Vice presidential running mate is also a former Republican governor, William Weld of Massachusetts. No one within the Republican party is especially happy having to endorse businessman Donald [Sleezebag]. Even [Sleezebag] supporters such as Newt Gingrich have recently called for an "intervention" or reset of the floundering [Sleezebag] campaign.

Meanwhile, [Sleezebag] himself repeatedly refused to endorse fellow Republicans such as House Speaker Paul Ryan, Sen. John McCain, and New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte; dismaying [Sleezebag]'s last major ally within the Party, Reince Priebus. Priebus finally got the Donald to endorse Ryan, McCain and Ayotte on Friday, but the damage to party unity is done. http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/06/news/romney-mccain-bush-other-major-republicans-will-endorse-libertarian-gary-johnson/1713.html (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/08/06/news/romney-mccain-bush-other-major-republicans-will-endorse-libertarian-gary-johnson/1713.html)

So the move is neither far-fetched, nor unexpected. It is also a backdoor to having a Republican ticket consisting of major, experienced party figures, on the ballot in all 50 states. Both Weld and Johnson were Republicans when they were governors of their respective states.

Johnson has polled around 10% in recent national polls, against Clinton, [Sleezebag], and the Green Party's candidate Jill Stein. Johnson has described [Sleezebag] as "crazy," "racist," and "a wimp." Weld has said that [Sleezebag] should look into "another occupation--really anything other than President of the United States."

Newsweek says that the Libertarians "charm" could swing the election. http://www.newsweek.com/charm-libertarians-johnson-weld-presidential-debates-487371 (http://www.newsweek.com/charm-libertarians-johnson-weld-presidential-debates-487371)

Major liberty Caucus and never [Sleezebag] republican leaders are reportedly supporting and endorsing Johnson and Weld for president. https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-election/endorsements/rlc-nevertrump-leaders-found-republicans-johnsonweld-superpac/ (https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-election/endorsements/rlc-nevertrump-leaders-found-republicans-johnsonweld-superpac/)


Bush 43 and Romney 2008 veteran Dan Senor said he will endorse the Libertarians "Reluctantly. He also called for Johnson to appear on the debate stage with Republican nominee Donald [Sleezebag] and Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. Senor said [Sleezebag] lacks the personal integrity to be president.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/05/anti-trump_gop_strategist_dan_senor_pushes_for_gary_johnson_to_appear_on_debate_stage.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/08/05/anti-trump_gop_strategist_dan_senor_pushes_for_gary_johnson_to_appear_on_debate_stage.html)

"There has been a striking consistency to Donald [Sleezebag]'s behavior over the last year and even before that," Senor observed Friday morning on MSNBC. "The birther attacks against Barack Obama. At any time anybody following this closely can they honestly believe that Donald [Sleezebag] has the temperament or values or the character or the integrity to be president of the United States? No."


Senor said Libertarian party nominee Gary Johnson is "missing an opportunity to reach out to conservative voters." Johnson ran a pot farm ten years ago, and admits to consuming cannabis edibles recently; which fact has been a small problem for him with certain segments of the voting population. They refer to him as "Puff the Magic Dragon."


"I like Gary Johnson," Senor said. "I don't like the things he's been saying, particularly the last few days, but he and [William] Weld are missing an opportunity to reach out to conservative voters. I think if they changed their focus there is a lot of conservative voters they could pick up."

Reportedly 13% of US voters say they would rather have a large meteorite hit the earth then have either [Sleezebag] or Clinton as president. And former Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has said that he will support the libertarian candidates over [Sleezebag] or Clinton.

Face it, Dems: Bill and Hillary Clinton carry more baggage than Air Force One. Don't deny it; I'm old enough to remember the 1990's. As for Mr. [Sleezebag]; various psychologists have theorized that he is either a narcissistic sociopath or a megalomaniac with sociopathic tendencies. See for example /480771/]http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-[Sleezebag]/480771/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-[Sleezebag) Take your pick.


As voters discover they have a third party choice, increasingly they are just saying "no."


Gary Earl Johnson, 63, is a businessman, politician and the Libertarian Party nominee for President of the United States in the 2016 election. He served as the 29th Governor of New Mexico from 1995 to 2003 as a member of the Republican Party. He was the Libertarian Party's nominee for President of the United States in the 2012 election.

Johnson announced his candidacy for president on April 21, 2011, as a Republican, on a libertarian platform emphasizing the United States public debt and a balanced budget through a 43% reduction of all federal government spending, protection of civil liberties, an immediate end to the War in Afghanistan and his advocacy of the FairTax.

On December 28, 2011, after being excluded from the majority of the Republican Party's presidential debates and failing to gain traction while campaigning for the New Hampshire primary, he withdrew his candidacy for the Republican nomination and announced that he would continue his presidential campaign as a candidate for the nomination of the Libertarian Party. He won the Libertarian Party nomination on May 5, 2012. His chosen running mate Judge James P. Gray of California won the vice-presidential nomination. The Johnson/Gray ticket received 0.99% of the popular vote, amounting to 1.27 million votes, more than all other minor candidates combined. It was the best showing in the Libertarian Party's history by vote count.

On January 6, 2016, Johnson announced his candidacy for the Libertarian nomination once again in 2016, and in May he selected former Republican Governor of Massachusetts William Weld as his running mate. On May 29, 2016, Johnson won the Libertarian nomination on the second ballot with 55.8% of the delegates.

Crap!  Glitched and lost half of the post! Posting in pieces.






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 08, 2016, 11:25:52 PM
Well, that's the recent 538 analysis, and the article that could change everything. What was lost was my commentary.

Rumors were around just before, during, and after the Libertarian convention ( Memorial Day weekend.) that IF the Libertarians could get practical enough to run credible candidates this year, they could get Koch brothers funding.
No doubt Johnson supporters repeated it because improved his chances, and just generated excitement. As it turned out FALSE. FUNDING DIDN'T COME from them.

Romney did say that he would endorse Bill Weld at the top of the ticket "in a heartbeat", but would have to consider Johnson a couple moths ago. STILL HASN"T HAPPENED.

So now another rumor that Romney is getting close, and now this leak. I was skeptical. Then

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 09, 2016, 06:05:56 AM
To pick up where I left off,

Then it occurred to me that perhaps the intolerable part for the former GOP standard-bearers was the idea that the hard-won senate majority could be lost in one election on account of [Sleezebag]'s negligence and incompetence, and other down-ballot races could be threatened by droves of Republicans who would stay home rather than face the intolerable choice.

If so, then it follows that they don't want to jeopardize McCain's primary race against a Trumpanista. So they are waiting until after that election to hold their press conference. I just looked it up, and the Arizona primary is August 30th, after a supposed late August announcement. So now I don't know. They might have to pull strings with the debate commission if they hold their endorsement that long, because it won't show in the polls in time. Then again, including Gary, but not Jill this year might be the perfect strategy to short circuit appeals court fights over the debates, and allow the commission to maintain it's control.

I always wonder about leaks, whether they are deliberate trial balloons, whistle blowers, or just general organizational incompetence.

This is like reading tea leaves, you can interpret the facts as you see fit. But last night, I had the feeling that things were coming together, that when Bush, Bush, McCain and Romney treat Johnson as a peer, the debates, the press, and the party will have to follow suit, and when they do, so will the other voters. [Sleezebag] will be looking at a potential third place finish. Others will decide it's safe to vote for Johnson if [Sleezebag] can't win. Some will decide that Johnson is the only one of the three that meets all three criteria- will uphold the Constitution, is qualified for the office, and could get a top security clearance. Some will decide that the only way to vote against both Clinton and [Sleezebag] is to vote for Johnson. Some will actually vote for Johnson when they think he isn't a throw away, and they learn what he stands for.

That's sort of a double edged sword, because if the GOP leadership choose Johnson over [Sleezebag], the pressure is on him to defeat Hillary outright. Well, actually it works against Hillary as well, because she can't say vote for me to stop [Sleezebag] any more.

That was one of the other things keeping me awake. Will Hillary's campaign celebrate at the thought of the GOP breaking apart, or will they they think "Oh crap! We're victims of our own success. Now we gotta work to retake the senate. Hillary could end up like lame duck Obama from day 1, only without a healthcare or other mandate. Hillary will have to actually run on her own merit. Going negative will only help Johnson.

Well, we'll see how things turn out.

I wanted to get this posted tonight,  but I'm too tired to keep up with today's other political developments.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2016, 01:30:11 PM
I think you're making sense.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 09, 2016, 03:03:16 PM
What does the whole action mean in the real world, Billy Jean? The whole event means the GOP could fall apart and the libertarians could rise in a temporary blaze of glory.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 09, 2016, 06:07:05 PM
Billy Jean?

I think it might not be temporary if they play it smart - and that would be a good thing, on the whole.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 09, 2016, 08:56:16 PM
What does the whole action mean in the real world, Billy Jean? The whole event means the GOP could fall apart and the libertarians could rise in a temporary blaze of glory.

It means that things have finally come to a head.

The GOP is increasingly becoming the party of old white guys. You'd think they would have learned from their national defeats and try to appeal to say, women and Hispanics, or at least not antagonize them.

The GOP used to be a big tent that could hold North-Eastern progressives, nationalists, Southern Baptists, Cold Warriors, Free Traders, Entrepenuers,  even Libertarians. That coalition worked until the RINO hunters decided to enforce an ideological orthodoxy. The intolerance has been driving out the libertarians. The more they do that, the less able they are to appeal to millennials.

A poll today has Gary @ ... ( hardware issues!)  . Gary is leading Hillary among younger voters, then Jill Stein at about half of his support, and then Donald [Sleezebag] tied with the margin of error.

That tells me that there's a future for social acceptance and non-aggression, whether it's statist or individualistic.

Now, nobody is as accepting, or at the same time, more ideological than the Libertarians. They could be overrun and transformed by new blood.

It will be interesting to see how the dynamics of ideology vs. pragmatism play out in all of the parties now, as they seek re-alignment.

As for me, I don't think any presidential candidate in my lifetime has come closer to expressing my views and attitudes than Gary Johnson, ( but times and my opinions change, and the edges of my memories become fuzzy, so I could be wrong on that one but, probably not ).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 09, 2016, 10:59:23 PM
So crashes yet today, but I'm struggling to open more than one window at a time, so I'll mostly summarize.

NY Times about an hour ago-

"WILMINGTON, N.C. — Donald J. [Sleezebag] on Tuesday appeared to raise the possibility that gun rights supporters could take matters into their own hands if Hillary Clinton is elected president and appoints judges who favor stricter gun control measures to the bench.


At a rally here, Mr. [Sleezebag] warned that it would be “a horrible day” if Mrs. Clinton were elected and got to appoint a tiebreaking Supreme Court justice.


“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks,” Mr. [Sleezebag] said, as the crowd began to boo. He quickly added: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”
****

Yesterday, 50 GOP security and foreign policy experts, from the W. Bush administration denounced [Sleezebag] as unfit for office and dangerous because of his disposition and ignorance.

[Sleezebag] responded by saying they were responsible for the Iraq War, were sore losers, and it was good to have them self-identify.

All well and fine and fair game up to that point, but [Sleezebag] couldn't let well enough alone, blaming them for Benghazi and being the architects of ISIS- yeah, really, and proving their case that he was ignorant and unfit for office.

****

Bill Clinton actually doesn't have Parkinson's, but Hillary might. Of course, she's being secretive, as per usual.

****

Chris Christie is looking pretty uncomfortable these days. Ted Cruz was pretty sure he was making the right decision in the long run by telling Republicans to vote their conscience, he just didn't expect to get quite as much backlash, or to be vindicated so soon. Nate Silver is waiting to see what Kasich does, he can't see a [Sleezebag] win without Ohio.

Well I've spoken about Ohio before, historically, the GOP doesn't win the Whitehouse without it. I think it's because Ohio is a demographic mini-America. A message that appeals to a majority of Americans will play in Ohio.

****
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 12:58:13 AM
Your machine is done for, man.  Time for a new one, I'm afraid, and this is a practicing miser speaking...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 01:36:11 AM
It's a little better after the last crash...I just want the Civ VI specs before I buy new, or I would have replaced it already. If I disappear, you'll know why.

If that happens I might try taking it apart and blowing out the accumulated cat hair which must surely reside within. I'd have nothing to lose at that point.

****

You know, I'm equal opportunity.

Can we get [Sleezebag] to submit to a psych evaluation, Hillary a medical, and Johnson a drug test?

Or have all of them take all of those tests. They don't have anything to be afraid of, do they?

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 01:49:29 AM
I actually doubt any of them suffer from any of those problems.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 07:18:05 AM
If they don't, GREAT! We can stop talking about them and get back to the issues.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 01:09:03 PM
What issues?  The conversation for months has been about "decent people shouldn't even continence" v. "nobody likes her" -and your "Who?  -Don't throw away your vote" guy- and the issues are the sideshow. alas...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 02:16:44 PM
Quote
Dan Rather: Journalist Addresses Donald T rump's Comments on '2nd Amendment People,' Hillary Clinton

"This is no longer about policy, civility, decency or even temperament. This is a direct threat of violence against a political rival," Rather wrote in a Facebook post Tuesday.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Dan-Rather/105628452803615?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6317177653805257105 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Dan-Rather/105628452803615?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6317177653805257105)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on August 10, 2016, 04:00:14 PM
Quote
Dan Rather: Journalist Addresses Donald T rump's Comments on '2nd Amendment People,' Hillary Clinton

"This is no longer about policy, civility, decency or even temperament. This is a direct threat of violence against a political rival," Rather wrote in a Facebook post Tuesday.
https://www.facebook.com/topic/Dan-Rather/105628452803615?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6317177653805257105 (https://www.facebook.com/topic/Dan-Rather/105628452803615?source=whfrt&position=1&trqid=6317177653805257105)

Saw the part of the speech everybody was referring too.  It does not come across as "someone go kill her".  It comes across as "those of you who value the 2nd unite because when she gets done filling the supreme court, ain't anybody going to have a gun but the criminals!"

Reminds me of Henry II and Thomas Becket, "Who will rid me of the meddlesome priest?"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 04:32:40 PM
I dunno; I think I'd heard something about this, but wasn't looking for it when I heard it on the news last night without listening to the anchor's introduction, but it rather sounded to me like "or the gun nuts might shoot her".  I can't claim to have a 'trashy real estate hustler-speak to English' dictionary handy, but it tends to disqualify - atop the Everest of disqualifications compiled.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 07:30:51 PM
I might shrug it off as a tasteless joke, but coming from a person who said he could shoot somebody dead on 5th avenue and get away with it because of his popularity... since he already had the reaction to that, I think he knows the implications of these remarks.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 07:54:21 PM
I wouldn't want to soil the soiled waters going for the low-hanging fruit like that - but I really think he speculated in public that people who like guns might murder her, and failed to mention at ALL that that would be WRONG.

Fired.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 08:30:29 PM
Gleanings-

* The LA Times has joined the Chicago Tribune in calling for Gary to be included in the debates. The Times also wants Jill Stein on stage.

* The Commission has instructed the venues to prepare for three podiums, and the talk of "giving an inch" sounds more like "the margin of error"

* Johnson's Ohio ballot access is muddled... I'll speculate and suggest that it's rooted to John Kasich's gubernatorial/presidential ambitions, but there have been laws passed there to obstruct third parties. The Libertarians were de-certified for not getting enough votes for governor last time.
To get on the ballot as a party again, they need about as many signatures as Gary got there in the last presidential election. A heavy burden. So they started collecting signatures before the nominee was named at the Libertarian convention. The threshold for getting an independent on the ballot was lower. So they circulated petitions with the name of a placeholder candidate instead, planning to switch.

Well, they delivered the petitions with the name of the placeholder in a timely fashion, but the officials are baffled, and have to consult the laws. So who knows?




Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 09:38:23 PM
I try to divide my searches for political news among the players, and it depends on time and crashes how much gets done in a day.

This week I've been wondering what's up with Hillary's health and why is she trying to hide it? A pharmacist made a case for Parkinson's. Of course the anti-Hillary blogs/ sources jumped on that. 
Clearly, something wasn't right with her, so I dug into it out of curiosity.

I'm only going to link the article, because it quotes some doctors and has links and videos.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/hillarys-latest-brain-freeze-stumps-doctors/ (http://www.wnd.com/2016/08/hillarys-latest-brain-freeze-stumps-doctors/)

This suggests other medical issues, and seems more plausible to me than other theories.

I'm starting to view her with compassion rather than hatred. I can personally relate to falls, convulsions, and side effects of medications . I had vallium on hand  for my dog, who had a seizure. I have family on blood thinners.

Maybe those facial things, and other behaviors  I was recognizing as lies and insincerity, were really symptoms or side effects of maladies and meds- afflictions.

Well, I have no idea about her fitness for office on the basis of health, but this, more than anything makes her seem human, and "one of us" .


I enjoy blues music. It has a way of meeting me somewhere and taking me to another place. The Sirius/XM "Bluesville" channel says "All of God's children get the blues" . I think of it as nobody is immune to heartbreak or medical misfortune, so anybody can relate.

Hillary is probably too proud to be pitied, but for the first time, I think I can relate to her.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 09:49:10 PM
You should REALLY back up to March -or whenever it was I posted the link in this thread- and read the Vanity Fair article.  The reporter's a bit in the bag for her, but that's why she trusted him to give the access to meet the real her out in the hall and compare it to the aggressive woman in the roomful of tall men...  The reporter likes the woman in the hall.  I suspect it says everything about who she really is and why she comes off so badly in public...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 10, 2016, 09:58:23 PM
You should REALLY back up to March -or whenever it was I posted the link in this thread- and read the Vanity Fair article.  The reporter's a bit in the bag for her, but that's why she trusted him to give the access to meet the real her out in the hall and compare it to the aggressive woman in the roomful of tall men...  The reporter likes the woman in the hall.  I suspect it says everything about who she really is and why she comes off so badly in public...

Okay. I got an errand to run, and dinner to attend, but it makes sense to read that again while she has my benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 10, 2016, 10:00:23 PM
I don't think she ate supper out of Tupperware at her desk during an interview to make a good impression, you know?  I think he really has seen some of the real Hildog, and she's really, honest-to-God, about the gurl powah.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 11, 2016, 12:30:21 AM
I smell a rat, but...

Quote
BREAKING: Another Republican Will Enter the 2016 Presidential Race… CONFIRMED!
The Pilitical Insider
Kosar  Featured Contributor


(http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/11.jpg)



Evan McMullin, a Republican and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) veteran who is the chief policy director for the U.S. House Republican conference, will run for president!

McMullin is expected to announce an independent bid, and is being promoted by Veteran Republican strategist Rick Wilson along with major Republican donors, according to sources.

Just like T rump, McMullin is a graduate of The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.

   
Quote
Joe Scarborough, a former GOP congressman from Florida and host of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” was first to report the pending announcement.

    Scarborough said the independent presidential candidate would aim to get on 20 to 30 state ballots, adding that he personally thinks the campaign “has more to do with stopping Donald T rump than actually electing a president.”

    “Certainly they still believe they can go past the 270 [electoral votes] threshold so this person will be able to be in debates,” Scarborough said.

    McMullin served in the national clandestine service at the CIA for 11 years, ending in 2010, where he managed clandestine operations related to counterterrorism and other issues, according to his LinkedIn profile.

    He then went to work at Goldman Sachs in San Francisco, before working for two years as a senior advisor at the House Foreign Affairs Committee and a little under two years as chief policy director at the House Republican Conference.[…]

    Republicans hoped earlier this year that an independent presidential candidate would launch a campaign as an alternative to T rump, who has fallen behind Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in polls recently. David French, an Iraq War veteran and writer at the conservative National Review, was floated as a potential candidate before he ruled out a bid in early June.

    T rump has continued to catch flak during his campaign, most recently for feuding with the parents of a slain American Muslim soldier and initially declining to back Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in their primaries.
[/size]
Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-another-republican-will-enter-2016-presidential-race-confirmed/#ixzz4GyVS4GCS (http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-another-republican-will-enter-2016-presidential-race-confirmed/#ixzz4GyVS4GCS)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2016, 04:28:34 AM
I'd read a rumor. Oh great.

Well, that explains some of the conservative sites switching from anti-Johnson to pro-Johnson back to
anti-Johnson lately.

Too many deadlines have passed. Only 20 or 30 states? I'm not sure how running a nobody affects things.  I'll have to ponder it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on August 11, 2016, 06:40:36 AM
I read he's a member of the LDS and running is a way of keeping Utah from going [Sleezebag]. Utah's independent candidate deadline is the 15th.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2016, 07:57:29 AM
*Well, I see he's a Brigham Young as well as a Wharton grad. I question whether being a CIA operative and a political strategist counts as qualifying government experience, but clearly, it's superior to [Sleezebag]'s.

*Quoting a tweet here, but TX, NC, are true, and OH, is up against the deadline now. The Libertarians and Greens filed about a month ago in IL... I'd say the following is accurate-

"states where, as of now, Evan McMullin won't be on the official ballot: TX, NC, IL, NM, IN, NV, GA, DE, SC, OK, FL, MI, WA, MO, NJ, AR..."

*here's another quip, which started out by saying the guy has 135 followers on twitter-

"This is a guy who would not have been at the kiddie debate table during the Republican Primaries, folks. And since even Johnson and Stein haven't reached the 15% threshold to appear in debates this fall, McMullin's chances for more publicity than they are getting is up to...Joe Scarborough. Nevermind.

We'll see just how much money he raises in the next three days, because honestly, all the middle school mentality of the Beltway Media cares about is, "will this guy be able to afford to hire some of my friends as consultants?"

Good luck, Evan McMullin. Whoever you are."

* I found commentary on another forum accusing him of being a Clinton plant, and CNN coverage/publicity was proof.

*He has also worked for...( wait for it ) Goldmun Sachs!   He's only 40 years old.

*As a public speaker, I don't think he gives Gary anything to worry about.


-------------------------------

Preliminary conclusion- too little, too late. Now maybe they'll announce 5 states and they've already secured ballot access and 5 Super-PACS this week, and 5 major endorsements, but I doubt it.

Granted, he would be the GOP favorite in a House election, should he finish 3rd. A Brigham Young guy would be problematic in Utah, which is Gary's best state.

But a national race with Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, and a Never [Sleezebag] sponsored independent Republican? Well, If Hillary doesn't still win it outright, I really don't know who will ultimately prevail.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 11, 2016, 04:42:22 PM
I read he's a member of the LDS and running is a way of keeping Utah from going T rump.

Don't know that will make much of a difference, honestly.  I mean, officially, yeah, the state is 60% LDS, but realistically those numbers are inflated by inactive members.  If they could get Romney to support Johnson officially instead of lollygagging about, you'd probably see a 3 way split for the state.  Adding another body to that, you're just going to split up the anti-T rump vote more.

Whoever wins Utah is going to have well under 50% of the vote.  Mark my words. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2016, 09:24:59 PM
I read he's a member of the LDS and running is a way of keeping Utah from going T rump.

Don't know that will make much of a difference, honestly.  I mean, officially, yeah, the state is 60% LDS, but realistically those numbers are inflated by inactive members.  If they could get Romney to support Johnson officially instead of lollygagging about, you'd probably see a 3 way split for the state.  Adding another body to that, you're just going to split up the anti-T rump vote more.

Whoever wins Utah is going to have well under 50% of the vote.  Mark my words.

Yeah, last Utah poll I saw there wasn't much of a spread between [Sleezebag]/Hillary/Johnson, with a significant undecided.

*****

I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with rumors and endorsements. Some of the [Sleezebag] defectors have gone Johnson, others for Hillary. If the ones that haven't declared suddenly move for McMullin, that might be something, as if this was organized and they were waiting. Likewise, I don't know if Bush-Bush-McCain & Romney were holding their endorsement until they saw who Kristol was pulling out of his hat, rather than waiting for McCain's primary.

I don't think you could keep a coordinated petition drive in half of the states a secret, so I'm guessing they started just now. I also don't think you can organize a write-in campaign with a name like McMullin. Spelling counts in write-in votes. "Gus Smith"? Sure. Easy to remember and spell. Nothing close to that to make it confusing. But a Scottish name?

I think the Romney endorsement ( whatever it is  or isn't ) is worth more than the McMullin campaign.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 11, 2016, 10:21:59 PM
/]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-tell-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-to-de-fund-[Sleezebag]/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-tell-rnc-chairman-reince-priebus-to-de-fund-[Sleezebag)

Republicans tell RNC Chairman Reince Priebus to de-fund [Sleezebag]


Last Updated Aug 11, 2016 4:30 PM EDT

More than 70 Republicans have signed an open letter urging RNC Chairman Reince Priebus to cut off funding to Republican presidential nominee Donald [Sleezebag] and instead use the funds to finance Republican Senate and House races, according to a letter obtained by CBS News.

"We believe that Donald [Sleezebag]'s divisiveness, recklessness, incompetence, and record-breaking unpopularity risk turning this election into a Democratic landslide, and only the immediate shift of all available RNC resources to vulnerable Senate and House races will prevent the GOP from drowning with a [Sleezebag]-emblazoned anchor around its neck," a draft of the letter stated. "This should not be a difficult decision, as Donald [Sleezebag]'s chances of being elected president are evaporating by the day."

Some of the signatories include Rep. Chris Shays of Connecticut, Sen. Gordon Humphrey of New Hampshire, Rep. Tom Coleman of Missouri, and about 20 former RNC staffers.

Politico was the first outlet to report on the letter.

Andrew Weinstein, an adamant [Sleezebag] critic and former press aide of Rep. Newt Gingrich, helped organize the letter. In July, he co-organized an Irish wake in the Nation's capital to mourn the crumbling of the Republican party.

The letter was spawned as a result of "alienating" comments [Sleezebag] has made in which he attacked a Gold Star family and applauded a possible Russian hack into the email server of the Democratic National Committee.

"Those recent outrages have built on his campaign of anger and exclusion, during which he has mocked and offended millions of voters, including the disabled, women, Muslims, immigrants, and minorities," the letter states.

"He also has shown dangerous authoritarian tendencies, including threats to ban an entire religion from entering the country, order the military to break the law by torturing prisoners, kill the families of suspected terrorists, track law-abiding Muslim citizens in databases, and use executive orders to implement other illegal and unconstitutional measures."

This is the third letter circulating this week in which senior-level Republican officials and advisers strongly denounced a [Sleezebag] presidency.

Weinstein told Politico he expects the letter to be formally sent out next week.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 12, 2016, 08:20:18 PM
Gleanings-

* Hillary and Jill Stein have released their tax returns.

*AUGUST 11, 2016 (SALT LAKE CITY) – McMullin for President Chief Strategist Joel Searby tonight announced that Evan McMullin will appear on the Colorado Presidential ballot as an independent candidate this November.

* Yesterday [Sleezebag] denounced Obama as the founder of ISIS, and Hillary as their most valuable player. He was emphatic and received a lot of criticism. Today he's saying it was merely sarcasm.

* I suppose it stands to reason, but Democratic spokespeople seem to be unfair and unkind to Jill Stein, denouncing her as illegitimate and trying to mischaracterize her positions. They probably see her as poacher, stealing 4 or 5% of their voters, and maybe they fear the establishment of a Green Party which would attack them from the left.

* Hillary's health- Well maybe it's just complications of one of her falls, or the blood clot in her skull, I don't really know. It does seem serious, and she is 68.  I don't think she's unfit for office, as many on the right hope. What bothers me more is the secrecy about it. Kennedy tried to keep his Addison's disease a secret, FDR tried to hide the extent of his paralysis, so, it's certainly possible to govern effectively with health issues. I think the voters could understand that comparison. But Hillary likes to color outside the lines and be secretive about it, so I have my doubts. It could be pride. It could be ambition.

* The Johnson supporting PACS are set to run some 30 second TV ads. I don't think they are as good as the internet ones produced by the campaign, but their money, their choice.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 13, 2016, 09:05:10 PM
I came across this blog piece, and I thought it well written-
It's rather long, and the Electoral College gridlock scenarios are interesting. But I'll only quote the conclusion here.

https://gnerphk.wordpress.com/2016/08/13/is-voting-third-party-wrong/

"The Bottom Line

Given the above, a reasonable person is forced to conclude that the original assumptions used to provide Rieder’s conclusion are flawed at best, and possibly deliberate attempts to mislead the reader.  The following are neutral in tone, and as such are preferable:
1.Choosing the other party’s candidate would be a disaster.
2.Choosing my party’s candidate is not a good alternative.
3.A third-party candidate would be better.
4.At least one third-party candidate has the chance to vastly impact the results of the national election.

We have been fed the idea that we can only choose between the leading two candidates; this is palpably untrue.  What’s more, we’ve been encouraged to accept the notion that we must vote for someone who will win so that our vote isn’t somehow wasted.  This last is the most insidious lie; nothing could be a greater waste of a vote than to cast one for a candidate one doesn’t approve of, doesn’t trust, doesn’t like, and doesn’t want as president.

If we have the option to choose someone who reflects our views, we are likewise obligated to cast our vote for them.  If instead we simply don’t vote, our objection is lost in the flood of apathy that surrounds every election.  If we fail to vote as we feel is right, we instead endorse the despair that keeps the American voter home each November.

That makes us the problem, and when the inevitable consequences of President T rump or President Clinton arise, we’ll be unable to point to them as the only bad guy.  The person responsible will be you.

So if you honestly believe that Hillary Clinton would be the best possible candidate of all the ones we might elect, you should vote for her.

If you believe that Donald T rump would make an excellent president, you should vote for him.  Absolutely.  No question.

But if you have your doubts about them, why not consider Gary Johnson?  Why not consider Jill Stein?  Take some time; look them over.  I think you’ll be glad you did.


*NOTE – Wait — are you implying that political parties lie to us?  You betcha.  Always.  On every subject.  There may exist individual politicians who don’t lie, but they’re rare.  Political organizations lie, cheat, mislead, defraud, spin, and otherwise manipulate the electorate in any way they can in order to win elections.  The Republicans have Fox News; the Democrats have Chicago’s political machine and Wasserman Schulz — and those are just the examples everybody knows.  Including you."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 14, 2016, 12:53:41 AM
%&*@#!

Parkinson's Disease. This is not the answer I wanted!  I've been doing searches on Hillary's health. Clearly something is wrong with her. I was hoping to find credible evidence that these oddities were simply signs of medication side effects for a known problem, for example her history of blood clots, and that all would be well with a lower dose of Coumadin, or something.

Plenty of shabby speculation on the net, as well as blatant apologists  and denials.

This really jumped out at me-

"We do not have video evidence of the “pill rolling” tremor that is common in PD. But that is not a major concern for our thesis. Treatment with levodopa can reduce it. Also, PD sufferers develop a variety of techniques to hide it. Since it is a tremor at rest, keeping the hands in motion suppresses it. Grasping objects such as a lectern can also hide it. As long as the hands are busy, it is usually not visible."

I've been watching the whole campaign wondering why Hillary has taken to waving and gesturing constantly. That is a credible explanation for it.

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/08/12/hillary-clinton-has-parkinsons-disease-physician-confirms/ (http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/08/12/hillary-clinton-has-parkinsons-disease-physician-confirms/)


Hillary Clinton Has Parkinson’s Disease, Physician Confirms

August 12, 2016 By Mike Cernovich —197 Comments


Hillary’s health is declining, as anyone who has looked at her can see. The question is: What condition does she have? A board certified Anesthesiologist has written a memo of Hillary’s health. Feel free to pass it along to doctors and to analytics and criticize it.

Hillary Clinton’s Probable Diagnosis

(Download the PDF here, share with doctors for their opinion.)

Intro:

Hillary Clinton (HRC) has suffered a variety of health issues. Unfortunately, she has declined to make her medical records public. In July of 2015 her personal physician released a letter asserting her “excellent physical condition.” Unfortunately, multiple later episodes recorded on video strongly suggest that the content of the letter is incorrect. This discussion is designed to sort through the known facts and propose a possible medical explanation for these events. In keeping with Occam’s Razor, a single explanation that covers everything is preferred.

 

History of Hillary’s Health:
•In 2009, HRC fell and broke her elbow. Little else was made public.
•On December 17, 2012, while Secretary of State, HRC fell and suffered a concussion.[ii] Later, a transverse sinus thrombosis was diagnosed, resulting in chronic anticoagulation therapy. [iii] Her post-concussion syndrome was declared “recovered” in about six months.[iv] The original fall was publicly attributed to dehydration following gastroenteritis.
•An email from Huma Abedin (HRC’s closest advisor) on January 26, 2013, says that HRC “is often confused.”[v]
•Photos show being assisted up what appears to be the steps of a residential porch. This apparently happened in February of 2016. On August 4, 2016, Reuters and Getty published the photos.[vi]
•At a rally on May 2, 2016, HRC demonstrates classic PD hand posturing.[vii] She has no lectern in front, so she starts with her right hand pressed against her chest. At the 18:02 mark, she starts gesturing with her right hand, which is in a very unnatural position that is common in PD.

On July 21, 2016 HRC was filmed talking to reporters at close range when several spoke at once. Without warning, she started a bizarre head-bobbing episode that must be seen rather than described. After several cycles, she regained control and declared that the reporters “must try the iced chai.”[viii]
•On July 28, 2016, during the balloon drop, HRC suddenly looks up with a frozen wide-mouth and wide-eyed stare. After a couple of seconds she regains control and a more normal expression.[ix]
•On August 5, HRC declared that she had “short circuited”
  • a response to Chris Wallace in an interview that aired July 31 on Fox News Sunday.[xi]

•August 6, 2016, at a campaign rally, HRC freezes with wide eyes in response to protestors. A large black male who commonly accompanies her leans in and tells her “It’s OK. We’re not going anywhere. Keep talking…” Shortly after, she laughs strangely and then says “OK. Here we are. We’ll keep talking.”[xii]
•Several recent photos show HRC with an inappropriately exaggerated wide-mouthed smile and extreme wide-open eyes. Several videos show her laughing inappropriately and for extended periods. Numerous events have been interrupted by prolonged episodes of coughing unrelated to any infectious cause.
•This discussion will not argue that the black male is carrying a diazepam injector, since there is a plausible argument that it is actually a small flashlight, and is seen in other video to be such. We will also not discuss the circular area on her tongue. It appears to be the site of a mass excision. Benign explanations that do not bear on chronic health issues may easily be proffered.

Discussion:

The HRC campaign meme is that “there’s nothing to see here.”
 But numerous trained observers have noted multiple other, more subtle bits that strongly support the argument below.

After the 2012 fall, HRC had post-concussion syndrome (PCS). She should have declared herself unable to fulfill her duties as Secretary of State. Her resignation from the position shortly thereafter may have satisfied this need without public medical discussion. If no other questionable medical signs had appeared, this discussion would end here. But the other events and signs point to a single cause for the fall, and it is not the public explanation. Further, HRC’s statement early in her tenure as Secretary of State that she would serve only four years can be read in the context of a progressive disease that was known as she assumed the post.

It is the premise of this discussion the HRC is most likely suffering from Parkinson’s Disease (PD).

It explains every one of the items listed above. Further, since it is a diagnosis primarily made by observation, the video record is sufficient to create a high degree of certainty.

The 2009 fall where HRC broke her elbow suggests that she had working protective reflexes, and her arm took the brunt of the fall. But three years later, she had a catastrophic fall where her reflexes were unable to help her. It is notable that this fall took place at home, where she would have been unstressed and in a familiar setting. Failing reflexes are common in PD. Poor balance is also common in PD, and a fall without working protective reflexes is a prescription for head injury. Her subsequent concerns with transverse sinus thrombosis are plausibly related to the fall. Her need for fresnel lens glasses also fits with post-concussion syndrome.

Huma Abedin’s email comment can be referring to PCS as well, since it was during the six-month period of rehab. One must, however, be cautious not to overlook persistent cognitive problems that PCS can have. (Editorial note: The reader will note that this discussion is giving the benefit of the doubt to as many HRC memes as can reasonably earn it.)

2016 starts a spate of new data. The photos of HRC being helped up the steps is consistent with a fall similar to 2012, but with a security detail close enough to catch her before she fell to the ground. This matches the loss of reflexes and balance with PD.

On July 21 a video of HRC is posted that has many observers calling a “seizure.”

We should note the setting. She is answering questions, and then multiple reporters call out at the same time. Such a shock is often too much stress for a PD patient, and the patient suffers an “on/off” episode. Higher control turns off and an unpredictable dyskinesia takes over. Shortly she switches back “on” and regains control. Her mind froze during the “off” state, but was aware, so she is able to speak again, but inappropriately.

It should be noted that such dyskinesias are sufficiently common with long term treatment that they have a name: Parkinson’s Disease LevoDopa Induced Dyskinesia (PD LID).

A week later, during the balloon drop at the Convention, HRC suddenly “freezes.” This is an “off” moment manifested by bradykinesia, another PD problem. The particular form is a brief oculogyric crisis, complete with head arched back, fixed gaze, and wide open mouth. Again, this is common in PD. We should compare it to HRC’s facial expressions on “Live with Kelly and Michael” on November 19, 2015.[xiii] At 6:30 in that video, we also see a PD tremor and posture in her left hand when it comes to rest momentarily. In most videos her hands are in constant motion or clasped against some object. These are strategies to suppress a tremor.

HRC’s description of her false answers to Chris Wallace as a “short circuit” is extremely unusual.

It comes from the field of electronics, in which HRC has never been involved. The Urban Dictionary definition is electrical, and there is no popular or slang usage. But one semi-technical description of PD calls it “short-circuiting” brain circuits.[xiv] Did she hear this during a doctor’s explanation of her disease? It would not be unusual to parrot such a phrase if she has PD.

Days later, HRC “freezes” again at a campaign rally. This “off” state is like the others, triggered by a startle/stress reaction. But what is more telling is that the security detail gives her specific instructions in an attempt to get her to turn “on” again. She then parrots those exact words as she restarts. This is another PD sign.

The numerous episodes of prolonged coughing are another tell. Swallowing disorders are very common in PD. They can lead to aspiration pneumonia, the most common cause of death in PD. But before that they lead to chronic difficulty swallowing saliva. It gets onto the vocal cords, leading to coughing in an attempt to clear them. The high frequency of these episodes strongly suggests a major swallowing disorder.

Multiple episodes of inappropriate and extended laughter have also been documented. This, again, is common in PD.

We do not have video evidence of the “pill rolling” tremor that is common in PD. But that is not a major concern for our thesis. Treatment with levodopa can reduce it. Also, PD sufferers develop a variety of techniques to hide it. Since it is a tremor at rest, keeping the hands in motion suppresses it. Grasping objects such as a lectern can also hide it. As long as the hands are busy, it is usually not visible.

Summary:

HRC probably has PD.

She has had clinical symptoms for a minimum of 4 years, and probably much longer, given that the fall leading to her head injury required a significant progression of the disease. All of her bizarre physical actions since that time fit nicely into the spectrum of signs that we expect in PD. And since PD explains all of them, we have a high probability of a correct diagnosis. It has almost certainly been treated with levodopa. Some of her symptoms may be related to this drug treatment.

It is most curious that all of the bizarre physical signs seem to be in 2016 videos. HRC was a public figure in 2015, with a lot of campaign work underway. Yet all of the oddities seem to be within the last several months. This suggests a significant progression of her PD. We also know that her contact with the public has been rigidly controlled. She has not done news conferences during the campaign. These would be highly stressful to a PD sufferer and would elicit many PD signs.

PD is a chronic disease with a downhill prognosis. HRC’s instability and frequent cough suggest that her PD is advanced. This is not a good outlook for someone running for the Presidency. The office of the President is one of the highest stress jobs in the world. Stress sets off PD episodes, which render the sufferer incapable of proper response.

At this point, a bit of speculation seems appropriate. HRC talks about her yoga sessions. But no one we know of has ever documented one. It is possible that this is cover for sessions designed to teach her coping mechanisms for PD or for rest breaks. Exhaustion makes PD worse.

HRC’s coughing suggests that her swallowing disorder is advanced, placing her closer to an aspiration pneumonia that would disable or kill her. That’s bad enough, but PD has one more, even more dangerous step in its progression.

As PD continues, cognitive problems can develop. In time, they become full-blown dementia. The United States cannot survive if its President is mentally impaired.

 

Conclusion:

It is not appropriate for a physician to make a diagnosis at a distance. But since the evidence in the public record so strongly suggests that HRC has moderate to advanced PD, it is imperative that HRC release her complete medical record to an impartial panel of physicians for review. It is not necessary for the public at large to see them. Such a panel should be secure in its deliberations and should present a summary to the public. If she has PD, the panel would know and it would be made public. If not, then the air would clear.

 

Note on authorship:

The author of this document is a board-certified Anesthesiologist with 36 years of experience. That brings with it the ability to understand medical discussions, but not the expertise to evaluate PD signs and symptoms.

The first subject matter expert is a close friend of the author. This person is a brilliant businessman who was forced to sell his interest in eight successful businesses because early onset PD made him unable to continue in the daily duties of business. He is well versed in PD and sees its ravages in himself.

The second subject matter expert is the author’s brother. He is an RN who spent two years working 12-hour shifts caring for PD patients in a nursing home. This saturation experience allows him to pick up PD signs automatically. He notes that he called HRC’s PD and levodopa therapy when he watched the famous “What difference does it make?” exchange. Her mannerisms and behavior were classic and stereotypical.

Of interest is that during a teleconference, the author called the others to look at HRC’s left hand during the “Live With Kelly and Michael” video. The clip was played, and neither of the others even saw her hand. They were both riveted to her eyes, and both exclaimed that her eyes were “classic PD.” The clip had to be played a second and third time before they could even take their gaze away from her eyes. They did finally see her hand and agree that it was also demonstrating PD.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/06/18/hillary-clinton-faces-surgery-for-broken-elbow/ (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/06/18/hillary-clinton-faces-surgery-for-broken-elbow/)

[ii] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hillary-clinton-treated-concussion-fall-article-1.1220947 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hillary-clinton-treated-concussion-fall-article-1.1220947)

[iii] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/hillary-clintons-blood-clot-most-likely-in-a-leg-experts-say/2012/12/31/d2c853ea-5376-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/hillary-clintons-blood-clot-most-likely-in-a-leg-experts-say/2012/12/31/d2c853ea-5376-11e2-bf3e-76c0a789346f_story.html)

[iv] http://abcnews.go.com/widgets/mediaplayer/premiumPlayerPlaylist?mid=2016/07/31/full_interview_hillary_clinton_on_fox_news_sunday.html (http://abcnews.go.com/widgets/mediaplayer/premiumPlayerPlaylist?mid=2016/07/31/full_interview_hillary_clinton_on_fox_news_sunday.html)

[xii] http://thelastgreatstand.com/2016/08/07/hillary-clinton-freezes-fear-secret-agents-says-keep-talking-video/ (http://thelastgreatstand.com/2016/08/07/hillary-clinton-freezes-fear-secret-agents-says-keep-talking-video/)

[xiii] https://youtu.be/OKUi0sd1Ocg (https://youtu.be/OKUi0sd1Ocg)

[xiv] Rodgers, R, PhD, Road to Recovery from Parkinson’s Disease, ISBN 978-0-9819767-5-4, 2013, p. 94."






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 14, 2016, 02:37:58 AM
Gleanings-

* according to Gary, Romney will not be endorsing him for a number of reasons.

* [Sleezebag] doubles down on the "If I lose PA it's because of fraud" talk.

* Republican strategist - "am deeply concerned that [Sleezebag]'s campaign will be an extinction-level event for the GOP, wiping out hard won electoral gains built over a decade.

The potential exists for [Sleezebag] to do incalculable damage to the party and its future.

We may have miscalculated on one thing about [Sleezebag]: That he wants to win."

*In response to questions and speculation about Hillary's health and possible seizures they released a podcast of Hillary talking about her healthy lifestyle.

*Johnson is supposedly on 39 state ballots so far, and still on track to be on all 50 plus D.C. , Jill Stein is supposedly on 27. Johnson is confirmed in NV, while Stein is questionable. Johnson has filed in Ohio, but it's complicated, and in my opinion could go to court.

* http://www.sciencealert.com/us-presidential-candidate-jill-stein-thinks-wi-fi-is-a-threat-to-children-s-health (http://www.sciencealert.com/us-presidential-candidate-jill-stein-thinks-wi-fi-is-a-threat-to-children-s-health)

"In the video below, Stein not only denounces the move towards giving every child access to a computer at school, but also says, "We should not be subjecting kids' brains" to wi-fi."


* Pence and Kaine have released their tax returns ... boring. Gary Johnson has negligible charitable giving...disappointing. He says he considers his public service his form of charity.  [Sleezebag] is conspicuous for his secrecy.

-------------------------------------

About [Sleezebag]'s tax returns... my wife says nobody would understand them anyway, as she is not sure even she would, and she is a MENSA member and was a CPA and a CAO for a multi-billion dollar business.  But...I suspect they would reveal things that don't fit his narrative, like 1) [Sleezebag] is frugal with regard to charity, 2) that he is worth- 3 or 4 billion, not the 10 he claims, and 3) that this presidential campaign is what they called on the TV series Dynasty, "Million dollar spit in the ocean". When Blake Carrington was facing insolvency, he put on a lavish show to keep his creditors at bay and buy himself time to refinance, take on investors, etc.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2016, 02:09:15 AM
Newspapers are questioning whether T rump has hit bottom or not. My wife says- "Oh he's hit bottom, and now he's digging deeper."

One of the things I believe about this election with ClinTrump, is that all of the shoes have yet to drop.
More will come out about T rump University as the civil and criminal racketeering cases both go forward, and we can always count on him for more gaffs. Sooner or later he'll do it again, and pick on a non-politician or member of the press. On the Hillary side, there remains this business about her health issues, Arabian claims of funding 20% of her re-election, and the slush fund that is the Clinton Foundation.

How much of this stuff airs before the election, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure some of it will make front page news before Inauguration Day.

But tonight, the issue is more WikiLeaks-

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wikileaks-confirms-hillary-sold-weapons-isis-drops-another-bombshell-breaking-news/ (http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wikileaks-confirms-hillary-sold-weapons-isis-drops-another-bombshell-breaking-news/)

WikiLeaks CONFIRMS Hillary Sold Weapons to ISIS… Then Drops Another BOMBSHELL! Breaking News

Kosar

******
I plead hardware hardships! I intended to copy the whole thing. Basically, Hillary was dealing arms to Qatar to overthrow Libya & Syria, and some were diverted to ISIS. WikiLeaks claims proof of perjury before a Congressional Committee on Hillary's part.

****
Covert action always sounds wicked awesome. Cool as James Bond. Until it comes back to bite you ( see the history of Iran)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2016, 02:15:36 AM
I will be surprised if the Parkinson's nonsense gains any traction besides the usual hater circles - consider the sources, man.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2016, 04:06:56 AM
Yes, I know, it's the only thing some of these sites have reason to be excited about.

But something isn't right with her. Perhaps it's just lingering brain damage from a fall, or another  blood clot, or the side effects of too much medication. I don't know what it is, and she won't say.

Gleanings-

*Hillary seems to be keeping a low profile and a less grueling schedule. The Right wing says it's proof of Parkinson's and her need to rest, but I say it's proof of intelligence not to try to steal the spotlight from [Sleezebag] while he's busy  self-destructing.

*Evan McMullen is a media bust. All the stories are 5 or 6 days old. Apparently his plan is to take Utah, and hope it goes to the House.

*Jill Stein is relegated to the minor media. I don't know if that's because she's poorly managed, or being snubbed by the major media.

*As for [Sleezebag], his campaign manager is being investigated by Ukranian prosecutors in a corruption probe. Well, I guess I've said before that [Sleezebag]'s advisers wouldn't pass security clearance scrutiny.

* Also, [Sleezebag] seems to have acknowledged Johnson as a fringe candidate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 15, 2016, 11:10:05 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/15/media/commission-on-presidential-debates-polls/ (http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/15/media/commission-on-presidential-debates-polls/)

Debates: What it will take for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein to make it in
by Brian Stelter   @brianstelter

Attention, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein: The Commission on Presidential Debates has revealed exactly how it will determine who gets to be on stage this fall.

In a normal election season, this announcement wouldn't matter much.



But this year Johnson, the Libertarian Party nominee, and Jill Stein, the Green Party contender, are both hoping to make the cut.

Donald T rump and Hillary Clinton are the only two definite participants, since they are polling well above the commission's 15% threshold for invitations.

Johnson and Stein are below the threshold and are trying to change that between now and mid-September. That's when the commission's "selection criteria" will be applied.

On Monday, the commission announced the five polls that will be averaged together to determine who is receiving 15% support nationwide.

The polls are ABC-Washington Post; CBS-New York Times; CNN-Opinion Research Corporation; Fox News; and NBC-Wall Street Journal.

The polls were chosen with "the professional advice" of Frank Newport, editor in chief of Gallup, the commission said.

The commission announced the 15% threshold in October 2015. But now it is explaining the process in more detail. The criteria "will be applied in mid-September," the commission said, not naming an exact date.

The first debate is scheduled for September 26.

"If a candidate is invited to the first presidential debate, that person's vice presidential running mate will be invited to the vice presidential debate," the commission said. "The criteria will be reapplied between the first and second presidential debates and the second and third presidential debates."

In other words, if Johnson or Stein aren't polling above 15% by mid-September but start to edge up after the first debate, they still have a chance to make it onto the stage.

CNN added up the results of the most recent ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox, and NBC polls to assess where the four candidates stand today with the commission's criteria in mind.

The results cover a period from July 29 to August 4. Clinton has 44% support, T rump has 36%, Johnson has 10%, and Stein has 5%.

The most recent CBS and Fox polls did not include Stein. If they continue to exclude her, "the average will be based on the polls that include a given candidate," a commission official said Monday.

But that may be irrelevant. A Fox News spokeswoman said Monday afternoon that Stein would be included in its polling.

CNN is holding a Green Party town hall with Stein on Wednesday night. The network has previously televised two Libertarian Party town halls with Johnson.

Jennifer Agiesta contributed reporting.

*****
That seems to leave out a couple of outlier polls while including all of the major news networks. The problem with these polls is that they tend to ask about ClinTrump 3 or 4 times before offering Johnson or Johnson and Stein as options. If the situation were altered, so that T rump wasn't  going to be offered as a valid option until the third or 4th question, I wonder how well he'd do.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 15, 2016, 11:15:20 PM
That's been the problem all along...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 04:33:58 AM
On the bright side Nate Silver confirms my hunch- 1) That Johnson avgs. 10% in these polls, only 8% with those polls not included in the debate qualification criteria.  2) Nate thinks these five are the same ones he'd use to make a determination.

Since the debate commission used the terms "margin of error" and "give an inch", I looked up the eligible polls from August so far, and added the margin of error in to each one, then averaged them.
They are fairly consistent, and it indicates Johnson near 10% ( as Silver said) and rounds off at 12% by adding the margin of error.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 07:08:39 AM
Gleanings-

* From the Libertarian Republic in May- "In addition to all that information he’s hiding, Gary Johnson believes that Donald [Sleezebag] hasn’t released his tax returns because they would show he’s effectively paying a 0% tax rate. With the majority of [Sleezebag]’s net worth and income tied up in real estate he’s eligible for thousands of deductions. Given that the man has admitted to trying to pay the lowest rate possible, it’s conceivable that he’s actually paying nothing in income taxes. This revelation would be an enormous scandal that might even turn off some of [Sleezebag]’s own supporters. After all, his populist message is built on making the billionaires pay more in taxes – just like Bernie Sanders’ own shtick."

My wife says that is entirely possible.

* Ohio's Secretary of state has approved the approach of getting Gary on the ballot in Ohio, so that shouldn't be a problem.

*US News and World Report says health questions about presidential candidates could only be settled by an independent panel. Apparently nobody would believe [Sleezebag] or Hillary anyway.

* Here's the snopes version of a viral piece about Hillary and a dog. http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/bonner-hillary-k9-handler/ (http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/01/bonner-hillary-k9-handler/)

* As for [Sleezebag] ( shakes head )

* According to The Hill, as strong as Hillary looks there are five things which could still go wrong- 1) A mistake in a debate 2) More hacked e-mails disclosed 3) Clinton voters stay home in anticipation of a blowout. 4) More Clinton Foundation revelations.  5) A terrorist attack.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 16, 2016, 02:01:17 PM
Gleanings-

* From the Libertarian Republic in May- "In addition to all that information he’s hiding, Gary Johnson believes that Donald T rump hasn’t released his tax returns because they would show he’s effectively paying a 0% tax rate. With the majority of T rump’s net worth and income tied up in real estate he’s eligible for thousands of deductions. Given that the man has admitted to trying to pay the lowest rate possible, it’s conceivable that he’s actually paying nothing in income taxes. This revelation would be an enormous scandal that might even turn off some of T rump’s own supporters. After all, his populist message is built on making the billionaires pay more in taxes – just like Bernie Sanders’ own shtick."

My wife says that is entirely possible.

I don't see why that would be a problem.

"OF COURSE I'm Paying zero, that's why we need someone who KNOWS the loopholes to FIX them!" 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 08:32:40 PM
Gleanings-

* From the Libertarian Republic in May- "In addition to all that information he’s hiding, Gary Johnson believes that Donald T rump hasn’t released his tax returns because they would show he’s effectively paying a 0% tax rate. With the majority of T rump’s net worth and income tied up in real estate he’s eligible for thousands of deductions. Given that the man has admitted to trying to pay the lowest rate possible, it’s conceivable that he’s actually paying nothing in income taxes. This revelation would be an enormous scandal that might even turn off some of T rump’s own supporters. After all, his populist message is built on making the billionaires pay more in taxes – just like Bernie Sanders’ own shtick."

My wife says that is entirely possible.

I don't see why that would be a problem.

"OF COURSE I'm Paying zero, that's why we need someone who KNOWS the loopholes to FIX them!"

Good point. I suppose that excuse will suffice for the followers, but I haven't read or heard anything in his tax proposals that would address the deduction and loophole issue.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 08:44:25 PM
http://time.com/4452373/gary-johnson-personal-choice/ (http://time.com/4452373/gary-johnson-personal-choice/)

Cutting and pasting the page isn't gonna happen with my machine today. Anyway, it's an opinion page written by Gary Johnson. He credits his personal success of turning a one man handy man business into a construction company that employed 1,000 people to freedom and profit sharing.

That made becoming governor, becoming an endurance athlete, and running for president possible.

He wants future generations to have those same freedoms to achieve that he had.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 09:13:28 PM
The 538 "Nowcast"



Electoral votes

Hillary Clinton 359.7

Donald [Sleezebag] 177.9

Gary Johnson     0.4


Popular vote

Hillary Clinton 48.4%

Donald [Sleezebag] 41.0%

Gary Johnson   9.2%

---------------

The 538 Polls Plus ( adjusted for economic and historical factors . This is the model with the stellar track record )



Electoral votes

Hillary Clinton 321.6

Donald [Sleezebag] 216.1

Gary Johnson     0.2


Popular vote

Hillary Clinton  48.1%

Donald [Sleezebag]  43.7%

Gary Johnson    6.9%

---------------------------------

[Sleezebag] is doing so badly that if the election were held today, South Carolina is the ONLY East Coast state he'd win.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 16, 2016, 09:17:58 PM
Good point. I suppose that excuse will suffice for the followers, but I haven't read or heard anything in his tax proposals that would address the deduction and loophole issue.

There's not.  In fact, I believe it will actually HELP him.  But that's not what he SAYS, and the average joe don't understand economics. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 16, 2016, 11:29:44 PM
Gleanings-

* The House is preparing a perjury case against Hillary, with regard to her testimony before them.

* [Sleezebag] is slowly but surely taking the GOP Senate majority down with him.

* Considerably more Republicans are asking for the RNC to defund [Sleezebag] and to spend it's money down ballot.

* Johnson has a goal of raising money - $15 contributions, by the 15th of August in order to get to 15% in the polls. He was hoping for $1.5 million, but it's something over 2.9, so far. The campaign is gaining credibility, at least.


Gotta make dinner
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 17, 2016, 12:23:13 AM
* The House is preparing an unbiased, credible, bi-bartisan, completely non-political and fair perjury case against Hillary, with regard to her testimony before them.
FIFY
 
Good luck with the cooking.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 17, 2016, 01:06:08 AM
* The House is preparing an unbiased, credible, bi-bartisan, completely non-political and fair perjury case against Hillary, with regard to her testimony before them.
FIFY
 
Good luck with the cooking.

The cooking turned out well enough. My plans were to make a batch of chilli , and a BLT for my wife, who hates beans of all kinds. But, she had to take her mom to the doctor's, and brought her home for dinner and TV watching before returning her to assisted living. My wife ( who cooks few things) decided to have spaghetti. Since her family does it a little differently than mine, I was just the assistant, finding utensils, stirring the pasta once a minute, taking directions, that sort of thing.

YEAH. I find this perjury problematic. Flashbacks to Bill. As somebody who thinks integrity in government is a big deal, and that those at the top aren't above the law, I'm conflicted. I sort of thought the public opinion polls which said that people thought that it was okay for Bill to lie on the stand to protect himself and his family meant that the country was lost because the court system was undermined.  But beyond that, it seemed to me that integrity was the concern of about 1 or 2% of Congress at the time, and politics was the focus of the rest.

Deja Vu all over again.

Of course this time, I don't really think that lying to a lying Congress in pursuit of political grandstanding is as serious of an offense as lying in a trial. I would have hoped that Hillary, as a Watergate hearing participant would have exhibited higher ethics.

A great waste of time and television.  So much so that I think I won't bring it up in this thread again.

[corrected for spelling ]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 17, 2016, 06:07:55 AM
Perhaps I can get this posted before the next crash. The reasoning seems sound to me. If the Commission on Presidential Debates are to remain a tax-exempt charity participating in elections, they must be non-partisan. Bi-partisan is not non-partisan.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/johnsonweld-superpac-threatens-the-commi (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/15/johnsonweld-superpac-threatens-the-commi)

To quote from the letter, sent to me his morning by R.J. Lyman, who runs Solifico:

For your Commission to survive, for us all to thrive, you must limit your selection criteria to those consistent with its tax-exempt, charitable purposes and as inherently useful for educating the electorate about those standing for election in the Presidential and Vice Presidential contests.

The law is against you. Like all tax-exempt, charitable organizations, your Commission cannot participate or intervene in political campaigns, including by the "publishing or distributing of statements" for or against any candidate. ....The only way in which a tax exempt charity may engage in voter education activities, specifically including presenting debates, is to conduct them in a non-partisan manner....

To conduct itself in a non-partisan manner, a debate sponsor cannot show "bias or preference for or against" particular candidates; there must be "fair and impartial treatment of candidates" without any promotion or advancement of some candidates over others....So long as all candidates are invited, a tax-exempt charity acts properly in holding a debate or similar forum....

Put another way, bi-partisan is not the same as non-partisan. You cannot select some but not
 others from among all those who are legally eligible to, and capable of, competing for election.

The letter also says that the CPD can't rely on the notion that courts have upheld their 15 percent poll criteria, since "the Internal Revenue Service and the courts reviewing tax code cases apply review standards entirely distinct from those relevant to the Federal Election Commission and courts reviewing election law disputes."

Lyman's letter goes on to say:

The facts are against you. Your Commission's fundamentally educational purpose is compromised by the inherent bias or preference of your selection criteria...The 15% opinion polling criterion does not address whether an individual is standing as a contestant in the election; that would be ok. Instead, it attempts to assess which individuals are, at a given date, months before the election, projected likely to win the election; that is not ok.


 There is no way you can maintain both (a) the 15% opinion polling criterion by which you make a "selection" of whom to invite to the debate stage, and (b) your tax-exempt, charitable status, under which you are allowed only to determine who is "eligible" to participate on the debate stage. It is simply a fact – you have to choose one or the other.

Then, the hammer is threatened:


Absent your timely addressing the problem of the opinion polling criterion, we are inclined to make a referral to the
 Internal Revenue Service about whether your Commission has violated the limitations on political activity applicable to tax-exempt charitable organizations and perhaps to seek immediate equitable relief in courts of competent jurisdiction.

One element of the letter confused me, stating that it was not Solifico's position that past lawsuits trying to fight their way into the debates, including ones by Johnson, were legitimate:


Solifico does not adopt the posture of those would-be debaters who have in the past sued your
 Commission after they failed to meet your criteria for an invitation. No matter our personal
 preference, that was the right result for the 2012 candidates, as it was for Ralph Nader before them.

Asked to clarify in a phone interview this morning, Lyman said that "it's a bit of a lawyerly point" but he analogized the lawsuit solution as "like medieval jousters complaining they didn't get invited to the tournament" and he is not now saying "'invite me! invite me!'" but rather that "if you don't change your rules, you can't be a tax exempt non profit.

"It's not about the candidate or the commission," he further explained, "it's about the voters." Lyman analogized the CPD to rating agencies that served the interests of their customers, the banks, rather than the investors.

In that analogy, the CPD is behaving like the rating agencies, and the two major parties are the banks. Thus, Lyman's tack is not to insist that the candidates are being treated unfairly by CPD, but that CPD's implicit obligation to the voters is being violated in a manner not commensurate with their tax-exempt mission.

I also asked Lyman to speak to rumors I'd heard that his PAC had received or was soon to receive a seven figure donation. While Lyman would not speak to financial specifics, he said that "I wouldn't have sent this letter out if I wasn't well prepared for the battle with the two-headed dragon. I don't want to get in the habit of saying that x dollars is a number that meets or falls short of expectations, but I know how much engaging lawyers in big law firms cost, I have 25 years of experience in one, and I know how entrenched and powerful and rich our adversaries are, and we are ready for the battle."

A call to the CPD seeking comment on the letter has not been returned as of time of posting; if they reply will update.


 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 18, 2016, 04:25:29 AM
So.... [Sleezebag] Shall be [Sleezebag] henceforth. Breitbart has been the [Sleezebag] News Network as surely as Huffington has been the Dump on [Sleezebag] News Network.  Now that I've completed the cut and paste I realize it's too long and nobody cares. It just means that [Sleezebag] will focus on his anti-immigrant /anti-Muslim/ protectionist message with a new manager aboard, and Roger Ailes, too.

-stephen-bannon-paul-manafort.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-stephen-bannon-paul-manafort.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/18/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

Donald [Sleezebag] Appoints Media Firebrand to Run Campaign
By JONATHAN MARTIN, JIM RUTENBERG and MAGGIE HABERMANAUG. 17, 2016

Donald J. [Sleezebag] named as his new campaign chief on Wednesday a conservative media provocateur whose news organization regularly attacks the Republican Party establishment, savages Hillary Clinton and encourages Mr. [Sleezebag]’s most pugilistic instincts.

Mr. [Sleezebag]’s decision to make Stephen K. Bannon, chairman of the Breitbart News website, his campaign’s chief executive was a defiant rejection of efforts by longtime Republican hands to wean him from the bombast and racially charged speech that helped propel him to the nomination but now threaten his candidacy by alienating the moderate voters who typically decide the presidency.

It also formally completed a merger between the most strident elements of the conservative news media and Mr. [Sleezebag]’s campaign, which was incubated and fostered in their boisterous coverage of his rise.

Mr. Bannon was appointed a day after the recently ousted Fox News chairman, Roger Ailes, emerged in an advisory role with Mr. [Sleezebag]. It was not lost on Republicans in Washington that two news executives whose outlets had fueled the anti-establishment rebellion that bedeviled congressional leaders and set the stage for Mr. [Sleezebag]’s nomination were now directly guiding the party’s presidential message and strategy.

Mr. Bannon’s most recent crusade was his failed attempt to oust the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, in this month’s primary, making his new role atop the [Sleezebag] campaign particularly provocative toward Republican leaders in Washington.

Party veterans responded Wednesday with a mix of anger about the damage they saw Mr. [Sleezebag] doing to their party’s reputation and gallows humor about his apparent inability, or unwillingness, to run a credible presidential campaign in a year that once appeared promising.

“If [Sleezebag] were actually trying to antagonize supporters and antagonize new, reachable supporters, what exactly would he be doing differently?” asked Dan Senor, a longtime Republican strategist who advised Mitt Romney and his running mate, Mr. Ryan, in 2012.

Terry Sullivan, who ran Senator Marco Rubio’s presidential campaign, said Mr. [Sleezebag] and Breitbart “both play to the lowest common denominator of people’s fears. It’s a match made in heaven.”

For Mr. [Sleezebag], though, bringing in Mr. Bannon was the political equivalent of ordering comfort food. Only last week, Mr. [Sleezebag] publicly expressed ambivalence about modifying his style. “I think I may do better the other way,” he told Time magazine. “They would like to see it be a little bit different, a little more modified. I don’t like to modify.”

Mr. Bannon’s transition from mischief-maker at Breitbart to the inner circle of the de facto leader of the Republican Party capped the second shake-up of Mr. [Sleezebag]’s campaign in two months.

Kellyanne Conway, a veteran pollster and strategist who was already advising Mr. [Sleezebag], will become his campaign manager and is expected to travel with the candidate, filling a void that opened up when Corey Lewandowski was fired on June 20.

Mr. [Sleezebag]’s loyalists put the best possible face on the changes announced Wednesday, but their timing, after a New York Times article detailing his advisers’ frustration at trying to impose discipline on him, underscored why so many in the party have soured on his prospects: His decisions are often made in reaction to news coverage.

Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman, will retain his title and focus on the political shop but was widely seen as being sidelined: Mr. Bannon and Ms. Conway have both developed close relationships with Mr. [Sleezebag], and Mr. Bannon is likely to be more amenable to letting him run the sort of media-focused campaign he prefers.

“This is an exciting day for Team [Sleezebag],” Mr. Manafort wrote in an internal staff memo. “I remain the campaign chairman and chief strategist, providing the big-picture, long-range campaign vision,” he added.

On a conference call Wednesday morning, Jason Miller, a [Sleezebag] spokesman, said the moves had been well received, pointing to favorable coverage on the MSNBC show “Morning Joe.”

Under Mr. Bannon, Breitbart News has been an amen corner for Mr. [Sleezebag], and perhaps more relentless than any other conservative outlet in its criticism of the Republican establishment.

But what most distresses mainstream party strategists about the union of Mr. [Sleezebag]’s campaign with Breitbart’s guiding vision is the brand of populism that the website has advocated, and that Mr. [Sleezebag] has championed.
 
Mr. Bannon has overseen a site that is focused primarily on pushing Republicans away from what it calls a globalist agenda and toward a hard-line and often overtly racial one, railing against what it sees as the threats of free trade, Hispanic migration and Islamist terrorism.

“This is [Sleezebag] going back to the nativism and nationalism that fueled his rise in the primary,” said Lanhee J. Chen, who was Mr. Romney’s policy director in 2012. “But it’s very dangerous to the future of the party because it only further narrows the appeal of a party whose appeal was already narrow going into this cycle.”

Mr. Chen called Mr. [Sleezebag]’s shift “a base reinforcement strategy” and noted that it was very different from the tack of most party nominees, who use the final months of the presidential race to broaden their appeal in hopes of winning over the maximum number of voters.

But to those on the right who are hoping to permanently shift Republicans away from free-market conservatism and toward a harder-edged populism, the addition of Mr. Bannon was a victory for the “America First” approach they want to ingrain in the party.

“He doesn’t need any help formulating his message — his message is perfect,” the conservative author Ann Coulter said of Mr. [Sleezebag]. Referring to Mr. [Sleezebag]’s policy adviser, speechwriter and warm-up speaker, she added, “Maybe he could use 10 more Stephen Millers.”

As comfortable as Mr. [Sleezebag] may feel with Mr. Bannon’s style of politics, their unconventional alliance, and the possibility that the coming weeks could resemble a conservative publicity tour more than a conventional White House run, fueled speculation that Mr. [Sleezebag] was already looking past November.

In recent months, Mr. [Sleezebag] and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have quietly explored becoming involved with a media holding, either by investing in one or by taking one over, according to a person close to Mr. [Sleezebag] who was briefed on those discussions.

At a minimum, the campaign’s homestretch offers Mr. [Sleezebag], who has begun to limit his national media appearances to conservative outlets, an opportunity to build his audience and steer his followers toward the combative Breitbart site. Even before announcing the staff shake-up, Mr. [Sleezebag] intensified his criticism of the mainstream news media in a speech on Tuesday night in which he declared that he was running against the “media-donor-political complex.”

Mr. [Sleezebag]’s elevation of Mr. Bannon and Ms. Conway also highlights the growing influence of Robert Mercer and his daughter Rebekah, conservative donors from Long Island. The Mercers are investors in Breitbart, and their foundation funds a host of other conservative activist groups. They spent millions on Senator Ted Cruz’s behalf during the Republican primary, an effort Ms. Conway helped lead. And they began bankrolling a pro-[Sleezebag] “super PAC” in recent weeks after becoming friendly with Mr. [Sleezebag], his daughter Ivanka and her husband, Mr. Kushner.
 
At Breitbart and its sister foundation, the Government Accountability Institute, Mr. Bannon ran a hybrid between a news organization and an opposition-research operation aimed at discrediting Mrs. Clinton. The institute sponsored a book about Mrs. Clinton’s financial entanglements, “Clinton Cash,” which spawned various articles in mainstream newspapers last year, including in The New York Times.

Rival conservative news organizations viewed Breitbart as something of an outlier, which was evident in the title of an article the Weekly Standard writer Stephen F. Hayes wrote on Wednesday: “[Sleezebag] Has Decided to Live in Breitbart’s Alternative Reality.”

“It’s the merger of the [Sleezebag] campaign with the kooky right,” William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard, said of Mr. Bannon’s new role.

Mr. Bannon has now joined with Mr. Ailes in a common cause on Mr. [Sleezebag]’s behalf, a mission that Breitbart never pretended to deny. But Mr. Ailes’s direct involvement casts a new light on how his network handled Mr. [Sleezebag]’s candidacy.

In the weeks before the Fox News host Gretchen Carlson filed the sexual harassment lawsuit that led to Mr. Ailes’s forced resignation, Mr. Ailes had been in regular contact with Mr. [Sleezebag] and met with him at least twice, people briefed on the sessions said.

While meetings between a presidential candidate and the chairman of an influential television network are hardly unheard-of, especially with Mr. [Sleezebag], Mr. Ailes’s direct involvement in the campaign raises new questions about whether the sessions involved more than the usual complaints about coverage.

Before Mr. Ailes’s ouster, some of the network’s most prominent journalists and contributors privately complained that Mr. Ailes was pushing them to be more supportive of Mr. [Sleezebag]. This drew particular umbrage from longtime Republican staff members and contributors who either opposed Mr. [Sleezebag]’s candidacy on ideological grounds or believed it demanded tough reporting on journalistic grounds.
 
There was, though, one prominent conservative voice unambiguously in Mr. Ailes’s corner since the beginning of the sexual harassment scandal: Breitbart.

The website emerged as a singular defender of Mr. Ailes, with a piece about a planned walkout by network stars loyal to him should he be forced out — it never came to pass — and one by Mr. Bannon ridiculing the “minor Murdochs” (the 21st Century Fox chief Rupert Murdoch’s sons and co-executives, James and Lachlan), who were seen as leading the push for Mr. Ailes to resign.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 18, 2016, 05:20:12 AM
Gleanings-

*Stein and Evan McMullen are struggling with spoiler labels.

*Hillary isn't motivating Democrats to vote for her, especially black ones, so mush as [Sleezebag] is motivating them to vote against him.

*Johnson & Weld had a town hall on Fusion tonight, recorded it, haven't watched. They also did a rally in Miami.

* Johnson is at a 10% average in the debate qualifying polls, with an average 3% margin of error. The polls with the smallest margins also have the highest numbers.

* Politifact investigated Johnson's claim that a majority of Americans favor marijuana legalization.
It's True.  In national polls from 2014 on-
"In 12 of these 14 polls, an outright majority of respondents -- 50 percent or more -- supported legalization. As for the other two polls, legalization led in one by 48 percent to 47 percent and in the other by 49 percent to 48 percent.

Overall, if you average the 14 polls, legalization led by a 53 percent-44 percent margin."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 18, 2016, 01:31:47 PM
How do YOU feel about legalizing teh maryhootchie?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 18, 2016, 09:38:38 PM
1) I've long thought that war is something you declare against other nations, not something a president gets to say in order to consolidate money and power and silence criticism of their methods towards some goal, even if it's a worthy one, like eliminating poverty or crime. For example, why not a war against Al Queda, rather than a "War on Terrer".  That at least is focused, with a beginning and end.

2) I've known too many cancer patients. I've had the position since the turn of the millennia that it should be available in every pharmacy by prescription.

******

Johnson has really broadened my mind on this one. It started with agreeing that a majority of the people and the states want it not to be criminal. That class I narcotic status prevents research into the medical benefits.  I guess I've always believed it was less harmful than alcohol, particularly if it were cooked and consumed rather than smoked. Of course, in my lifetime it's become more potent, and more of a problem to minors and pregnant women.

But he began a shift in my thinking about changing the approach from warfare to wellness. It was a pretty radical perspective shift, and didn't happen all at once. Wellness gets addicts treatment.

Warfare is conflict, and leads to police in armored cars, leads to drug gangs being armed, leads to mandatory sentencing for possession which leads to overcrowding of prisons no matter how fast we build them. But aside from the super-max prisons and solitary confinement cells, our war on drugs can't even keep drugs out of most of our jails and prisons. It makes a simple traffic stop a confrontation, because life imprisonment is likely at stake. If that results in gunfire or a high speed chase, it endangers the public. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol in the 20s. Why do we think it can work with marijuana?

Anyway, while Gary has given this a lot of thought and taken a lot of heat since the 90s, he isn't advocating such a sea change so soon. He's only talking about making marijuana no longer a federal offense, removing it from the class I narcotics list so that medical studies may be done and businesses that legally traffic in marijuana in their states can file taxes properly, and look at releasing/pardoning non-violent people in federal prison for marijuana possession.

States would still have their own laws, just like they have their own laws about alcohol, just like there are dry counties in the United States. He would take these steps, and allow society to digest the changes.  If he's wrong America can throw him out of office in 4 years. If he's right, maybe they'll listen about a wellness approach that's about treatment rather than incarceration for the other drug problems.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 19, 2016, 03:46:46 AM
Gleanings-

* The Clinton Foundation will no longer accept foreign contributions, or those from corporations, should she be elected. Bill hasn't accepted a paid speaking gig since last fall.

* [Sleezebag] has been questioning Hillary's health

* Hillary's campaign has countered with a denial, and claiming that [Sleezebag] is trying to distract from his taxes.

* FOX held a Town Hall in Milwaukee, with [Sleezebag] shill Hannity as host. We tried to watch the recording, but when [Sleezebag] said he wanted to throw somebody out of the country for "radical ideas" I was reminded about how [Sleezebag] wants to "Loosen up libel laws" so that he can sue reporters.

PERSONAL OPINION - A vote for [Sleezebag] is a vote against the 1st Amendment.

* Johnson is polling higher and lower, depending where you look. Looks like he's starting to get traction among Millenials, the largest demographic group in the election. He had an overflow crowd for his Miami rally.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 20, 2016, 05:38:50 AM
Gleanings-

*Johnson survived the challenge to get on the ballot in New York, which means pretty much as I said a couple of months ago, they are trying to make it difficult and expensive, but they won't stop him. This is the 40th state, and the others are on track. It's the one I worried about most.

*[Sleezebag]'s previous manager, who was supposed to stay on, has resigned. He was hired to get [Sleezebag] the nomination, so he was successful. His ties to the Russian mob have been problematic, and he has been advising [Sleezebag] to stay on script, and appeal to a broader audience. [Sleezebag] resents this advice and wants to return to being himself.

*Oddly enough, [Sleezebag] has gained a lot of praise for a recent speech which he read from a teleprompter, probably because it doesn't sound like [Sleezebag]. He didn't apologize, but he did admit he regretted some of the things he has said, without being any more specific.

*A judge ruled Hillary could respond to questions from Judicial Watch, who has filed suit against her, in the form of ( wait for it )   e-mail!!

* Gary Johnson has met all of the Secret Service  coverage criteria except "Raise $10 million", and since that is expected to happen soon, they are considering it early, much like the debate venues being told to prepare a third podium.

* Hillary hasn't had a press conference in 258 days. The press is starting to wonder.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 20, 2016, 05:59:51 AM
This one is about a rally in Charlotte, NC.
https://newrepublic.com/article/136161/trumps-train-considers-scary-thought-might-lose




[Sleezebag]’s Train Considers a Scary Thought: He Might Lose
And if he does, it will be all the media's fault.

By Jared Yates Sexton
August 19, 2016

Donald [Sleezebag]’s rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, on Thursday night was not a usual Donald [Sleezebag] rally. Something in the air was different—[Sleezebag]’s words, for starters. He rarely strayed from the prepared remarks on his teleprompter, delivering a speech that stayed on topic and told a complete narrative, unlike most of his directionless rants. He even admitted he sometimes says “the wrong thing,” adding, “I have done that, and I regret it, particularly where it may have caused personal pain.” Perhaps the campaign’s new CEO, Breitbart chairman Stephen Bannon, was already making his influence felt.

But it wasn’t just [Sleezebag] himself. The crowd had changed. They were as angry as always; they called Hillary Clinton a “[complaint or disagreeable woman]” and chanted “lock her up.” But their deepest rage was reserved for another nemesis: the media.

For as long as [Sleezebag] has run for president, he has criticized the media’s handling of his candidacy. But his rhetoric toward the press has heightened since the Republican National Convention as story after story—about his insults of the Khans, the dysfunction of his campaign, and the murky Russian dealings of his chairman, Paul Manafort—has chiseled away at his aura of invincibility.

The consensus in the crowd Thursday was that this biased coverage was to blame for [Sleezebag]’s sinking poll numbers. When I walked into the Charlotte Convention Center, the first pair of men I came across were leaning over the railing of the press pit and joking about how much fun it’d be to “beat the [poop]” out of a few reporters typing away on their laptops and smartphones at one of the media tables. Later, I heard several people say that certain reporters, including the entire lineup at CNN, should be jailed for their indiscretions—and that [Sleezebag] would do exactly that once he was elected.

Or rather, if he were elected. While some were still optimistic about his chances, there was a fresh sense of doom in the crowd. In the year I’ve been covering [Sleezebag], I’ve only heard a few supporters openly express a possibility that their candidate could lose, but on Thursday night it sounded like many of them had come to the same sobering conclusion. And if [Sleezebag] loses, guess whose fault it will be?


In the hours leading up to the rally, I heard clusters of men and women lamenting the sad state of the presidential race, most of them agreeing there was still time to right the ship while a few had already given up hope. But all of them agreed that the predicament had been the result of unfair press coverage.

“They don’t report the truth,” I heard a man in a “[Sleezebag] Train” T-shirt tell his wife. “How do you compete with that?”

Supporters’ frustrations bled into the program’s main event when [Sleezebag] took his tried-and-true critique of the Fourth Estate, his complaint no longer just a list of grievances. Now, he urged his followers to imagine a world with a “better” press:


The establishment media doesn’t cover what really matters in this country, or what’s really going on in people’s lives. They will take words of mine out of context and spend a week obsessing over every single syllable, and then pretend to discover some hidden meaning in what I said.

Just imagine for a second if the media spent this energy holding the politicians accountable who got innocent Americans like Kate Steinle killed – she was gunned down by an illegal immigrant who had been deported five times.

Just imagine if the media spent this much time investigating the poverty and joblessness in our inner cities.

Just think about how much different things would be if the media in this country sent their cameras to our border, or to our closing factories, or to our failing schools. Or if the media focused on what dark secrets must be hidden in the 33,000 emails Hillary Clinton deleted.


Instead, every story is told from the perspective of the insiders. It’s the narrative of the people who rigged the system, never the voice of the people it’s been rigged against.

So many people suffering in silence. No cameras, no coverage, no outrage from a media class that seems to get outraged over just about everything else.

The media had become Hillary Clinton’s running mate, another establishment gatekeeper who held a lion’s share of the blame for ruining the country.

The crowd took its cue.

A man turned from [Sleezebag]’s speech and toward the press pit, mouthing the words “that’s you, that’s you.” Several men cased the perimeter of the pit, snapping photos of each of the journalists and taking clandestine notes before marching away.

After [Sleezebag] said goodnight, supporters moved to the barricade and engaged with reporters. Some just stood there, glaring. In the crowd, the talk was how unfairly [Sleezebag] had been treated. Somebody said the media was full of “perverts and retards,” while a man in a “[Sleezebag] That [complaint or disagreeable woman]” T-shirt said “all reporters need lobotomies.” His friend suggested that President [Sleezebag] might sign an executive order to that effect, but Mr. “[Sleezebag] That [complaint or disagreeable woman]” couldn’t see that happening—a President [Sleezebag], that is. “You know there’s no way they’ll let him get in the White House,” he said.

On the sidewalk outside, the familiar vendors were selling their offensive merchandise. People drifted toward the street to hail cabs or tracked down their Ubers. Down a ways, in the shadow of the building, a pair of men were smoking cigarettes and shooting the bull. One wore a veteran’s hat, the other a “Make America Great Again” cap.

“It don’t look good,” the veteran said. “Biased media’s gonna steal this thing.”

“Yeah,” his buddy said. “Reckon one of these days we’ll have to take matters into our own hands.”

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on August 20, 2016, 04:12:22 PM
Quote
Just imagine if the media spent this much time investigating the poverty and joblessness in our inner cities.

Just think about how much different things would be if the media in this country sent their cameras to our border, or to our closing factories, or to our failing schools.

I've seen the media cover all of these stories, sometimes quite deeply. But it's an election year, so the media is focused on the election instead. I'd much rather if the electorate actually had the attention span to pay attention to stories even when they're not thrust upon us by tragedy.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 20, 2016, 05:22:59 PM
Just imagine if the media focused on real issues and what's important, and denied cheap drama and sideshow clowns and rapacious bald-faced liars free publicity - the last 36 years would have been VERY different.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Lorizael on August 20, 2016, 05:32:39 PM
Yes, it's kind of odd to hear [Sleezebag] lambaste the media when he wouldn't be a candidate at all if not for their fascination with him.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 20, 2016, 05:42:32 PM
The HufPo had that one right...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 20, 2016, 09:00:54 PM
(NOTE: Today is my birthday, so I choose to be self-indulgent and only read what I feel like, rather than seek diversity of political opinion and coverage.  Speaking of diversity...)

-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out]http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/[Sleezebag]-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/[Sleezebag)

I'd cut and paste, but it's not working.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 20, 2016, 10:52:49 PM
(NOTE: Today is my birthday, so I choose to be self-indulgent and only read what I feel like, rather than seek diversity of political opinion and coverage.  Speaking of diversity...)

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/T rump-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/T rump-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out)

I'd cut and paste, but it's not working.

Happy Birthday! :)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 21, 2016, 02:10:00 AM
(NOTE: Today is my birthday, so I choose to be self-indulgent and only read what I feel like, rather than seek diversity of political opinion and coverage.  Speaking of diversity...)

http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/T rump-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out (http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/19/T rump-loving-indian-teenager-kicked-out)

I'd cut and paste, but it's not working.


:party: Happy birthday
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 21, 2016, 02:12:43 AM
So, is FOX News fauning all over [Sleezebag]?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 21, 2016, 05:09:16 AM
So, is FOX News fauning all over T rump?

Thanks for the birthday wishes. My impressions this week, mostly printed articles and transcripts, is that they aren't hammering him. Parts of FOX still seem to treat Johnson and McMullen fairly. It's more like they're downplaying the [Sleezebag] screw-ups. They also do diversionary Hillary attacks.

The exception of course is Sean Hannity, who has been a [Sleezebag] shill for many months. He's been cheering at every opportunity.  The [Sleezebag] town hall he hosted was a series of softball questions from imported questioners, and he fed the answers on the follow-ups.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 21, 2016, 03:30:04 PM
Now, is the RNC the ones whom are getting T rump his new campaign (and later White House top staff) staff or is he??  My thoughts is that it is the RNC trying to keep him afloat... 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 21, 2016, 03:57:53 PM
Disagree.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 21, 2016, 08:25:24 PM
Now, is the RNC the ones whom are getting T rump his new campaign (and later White House top staff) staff or is he??  My thoughts is that it is the RNC trying to keep him afloat...

I believe that the National Enquirer ( where [Sleezebag] gets his conspiracy theories ) and Breitbart News ( the [Sleezebag] News Network) are both owned by a friend of his. The recent switch is seen as a return to the original campaign manager Corey Lewandowski's "let [Sleezebag] be [Sleezebag]" philosophy.

Campaign manager #2 , Paul Manafort was brought on to protect [Sleezebag]'s nomination from a rules fight and other potential convention shenanigans. He succeeded. He was the one trying to get [Sleezebag] to be presidential and read the script.  The trouble with him and his people is that they are lobbyists for foreign governments with ties to Russian oil, Pakistan, Russian and Ukranian oligarchs, etc. It is doubtful that many of them could get security clearances. Maybe they are taking their money and prestige and leaving the Trumptanic before facing potentially embarrassing security checks.

As for GOP Chairman  ReiNCe PRieBuS ( read the consonants) , I think he was trying to manage [Sleezebag] and his wave of angry seldom-voters. I think he made promises to [Sleezebag] about treating him fairly and supporting him, it's just that [Sleezebag] doesn't hasn't been holding up his end of things.
[Sleezebag] has been grousing about being scripted and losing in the polls, and he equates the two.

The RNC is trying to keep him afloat, just to trim Hillary's coattails. As to how much he's listening to what they tell him, I don't know.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 21, 2016, 08:41:41 PM
So, when are the debates and will Johnson be in them?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 21, 2016, 10:41:05 PM
Will Johnson be in? Short answer, don't know. Longer answer later.

Schedule-

1st ) Monday 9/26/16,  9-10:30 PM Eastern Time at Hofstra University, in NY

VP debate - Tuesday 10/4/16,  9-10:30 PM Eastern Time at Longwood University, in VA

2nd) 10/9/16 Sunday 10/9/16 ,  9-10:30 PM Eastern Time at Washington University, in MO

3rd) Wednesday, 10/19/16 9-10:30 PM Eastern Time at University of Las Vegas, in NV
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 21, 2016, 11:05:27 PM
As far as I can see, there have been no new qualifying polls released since I last calculated on the 18th-

" Johnson is at a 10% average in the debate qualifying polls, with an average 3% margin of error. The polls with the smallest margins also have the highest numbers."

*The Commission has spoken of "giving an inch" and "margin of error". 

* The judge threw out the lawsuit by Johnson and Stein regarding their being excluded 4 years ago, saying they didn't have standing. An appeal my follow, but it's too late for that to affect this year's debates. 

* A Johnson friendly PAC has filed against the commission, saying essentially that they are politically partisan if they don't include all candidates on enough state ballots to mathematically win the Electoral College. If they don't change their ways, the PAC will demand that the commission lose it's tax except status. The reasoning seems pretty sound to me. Bi-partisan is not non-partisan.

* Rumors are there are major political endorsements coming at the end of this month ( all Bushes, McCain, and maybe some more. ) That would send a message that [Sleezebag] has lost and it's okay to support Johnson.

* The Commission has set a deadline for the first debate of 9/23. They will re-evaluate the polls for each subsequent debate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 21, 2016, 11:31:29 PM
The PAC's need to fund some good polls that give all the canidates a fair chance that will show Johnson...

Has Johnson been on Late Night??
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 22, 2016, 04:32:34 AM
PACs are working on two advertising fronts-

TV spots in targeted areas, and internet memes designed for millennials.

Johnson and Weld appeared on Colbert early on, but I don't know if they've appeared on any other major show. Frankly, I've gotten out of the habit of watching in the last couple of years, I guess Fallon and Kimmel still have shows.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 22, 2016, 05:55:54 AM
Sometimes it's nice to see the New York Times validate my opinion- okay, it's really great on one level, and it sorta sucks when some things are proven true.

.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/22/business/media/sean-hannity-turns-adviser-in-the-service-of-donald-[Sleezebag].html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/22/business/media/sean-hannity-turns-adviser-in-the-service-of-donald-[Sleezebag)

Sean Hannity Turns Adviser in the Service of Donald [Sleezebag]
Jim Rutenberg   
MEDIATOR AUG. 21, 2016

During major inflection points in Donald J. [Sleezebag]’s campaign, the advisers, family members and friends who make up his kitchen cabinet burn up their email accounts and phone lines gaming out how to get his candidacy on track (and what counsel he might go along with).

But one person in the mix brings more than just his political advice. He also happens to control an hour of prime time on the Fox News Channel.

That person is Sean Hannity.

Mr. Hannity uses his show on the nation’s most-watched cable news network to blare Mr. [Sleezebag]’s message relentlessly — giving Mr. [Sleezebag] the kind of promotional television exposure even a billionaire can’t afford for long.

But Mr. Hannity is not only Mr. [Sleezebag]’s biggest media booster; he also veers into the role of adviser. Several people I’ve spoken with over the last couple of weeks said Mr. Hannity had for months peppered Mr. [Sleezebag], his family members and advisers with suggestions on strategy and messaging.

So involved is Mr. Hannity that three separate denizens of the hall of mirrors that is [Sleezebag] World told me they believed Mr. Hannity was behaving as if he wanted a role in a possible [Sleezebag] administration — something he denied to me as laughable and contractually prohibitive in an interview on Friday.

But he did not dispute that he lends his thoughts to Mr. [Sleezebag] and others in his close orbit whom Mr. Hannity has known for years.

“Do I talk to my friend who I’ve known for years and speak my mind? I can’t not speak my mind,’’ he said.

But, Mr. Hannity said, “I don’t say anything privately that I don’t say publicly.’’ And, he acknowledged, it’s unclear how far his advice goes with Mr. [Sleezebag], given that “nobody controls him.”

Mr. Hannity is unapologetic about his aim. “I’m not hiding the fact that I want Donald [Sleezebag] to be the next president of the United States.” After all, he says, “I never claimed to be a journalist.”

That makes Mr. Hannity the ultimate product of the Fox News Channel that Roger Ailes envisioned when he founded it with Rupert Murdoch 20 years ago, as a defiant answer to what they described as an overwhelmingly liberal mainstream news media that was biased against Republicans. Mr. Hannity was there from the beginning with Mr. Ailes, who was forced out over sexual harassment allegations last month.

Mr. Hannity’s show has all the trappings of traditional television news — the anchor desk, the graphics and the patina of authority that comes with being part of a news organization that also employs serious-minded journalists like Chris Wallace, Bret Baier and Megyn Kelly.

But because Mr. Hannity is “not a journalist,” he apparently feels free to work in the full service of his candidate without having to abide by journalism’s general requirements for substantiation and prohibitions against, say, regularly sharing advice with political campaigns.

So there was Mr. Hannity last week, devoting one of his shows to a town hall-style meeting with Mr. [Sleezebag] at which his (leading) questions often contained extensive Trumpian talking points — including the debunked claim that Mr. [Sleezebag] opposed the Iraq invasion. (As BuzzFeed News first reported, Mr. [Sleezebag] voiced support for the campaign in a 2002 discussion with the radio host Howard Stern.)

On other days, he has lent his prime-time platform to wild, unsubstantiated accusations that Hillary Clinton is hiding severe health problems. He showed a video of a supposed possible seizure that was in fact a comical gesture Mrs. Clinton was making to reporters, as one of them, The Associated Press’s Lisa Lerer, reported. He also shared a report from the conservative site The Gateway Pundit that a member of Mrs. Clinton’s security detail appeared to be carrying a diazepam syringe, “for patients who experience recurrent seizures.”

A simple call to the Secret Service spokeswoman Nicole Mainor, as I made on Friday, would have resulted in the answer that the “syringe” was actually a small flashlight.

People in Mr. Hannity’s audience of 2.5 million who are inclined to believe the health allegations, and who believe the mainstream media are covering for Mrs. Clinton, are unlikely to be impressed by the Secret Service’s explanation.

That’s the ultimate result of the hyperpoliticized approach Mr. Hannity and so many others use in today’s more stridently ideological media: A fact is dismissed as false when it doesn’t fit the preferred political narrative.

But while this informational nihilism appears to have hit a new high, the last two weeks have signaled the start of a possible reckoning within the conservative media.

First there was The Wall Street Journal’s deputy editorial page editor Bret Stephens, who, after trading insults with Mr. Hannity over Mr. [Sleezebag], said on the MSNBC show “Morning Joe” that “too much of the Republican Party became an echo chamber of itself.”

Those who spend an inordinate amount of time “listening to certain cable shows” and inhaling the conspiracy theories promoted on “certain fringes of the internet,’’ he said, wind up in a debate that’s “divorced from reality.”

Then there was the conservative radio host Charlie Sykes, who lamented in an interview with the Business Insider politics editor Oliver Darcy, “We have spent 20 years demonizing the liberal mainstream media.”

That criticism was often warranted, Mr. Sykes said. (Just take a look at the decision by the former Clinton White House aide and current ABC News anchor George Stephanopoulos to give some $75,000 to the Clinton Foundation, for which he apologized last year.) But, as Mr. Sykes said, “At a certain point, you wake up and you realize you have destroyed the credibility of any credible outlet out there.” Therefore any attempt to debunk a falsehood by Mr. [Sleezebag], he said, becomes hopeless.

What really caught my eye, though, was the moment on Fox News on Wednesday when Dana Perino, a host of “The Five,” refused to go along with a colleague’s attempt to dispute the many polls showing Mrs. Clinton leading Mr. [Sleezebag]. “That’s a real disservice to his supporters, to lie to them that those polls don’t matter,” said Ms. Perino, a White House press secretary for George W. Bush.

She went on to express regret for joining with other Fox News hosts who doubted the polls showing President Obama leading Mitt Romney in 2012.

You can’t help but see it as a sure sign that Mr. Ailes, who presided over all of that polling doubt four years ago, had left the building. Still, even Mr. Ailes occasionally reined in his more opinionated hosts when he worried they would tarnish the credibility of his news reporters.

It’s why, for instance, he abruptly canceled Mr. Hannity’s plans to attend a major Tea Party rally in Ohio in 2010 after it came to light that the organizers were using his appearance to raise money.

Mr. Ailes faced another Hannity-related issue shortly before his ouster, when CNN reported that the host had provided Newt Gingrich with private jet travel to Indiana, for a possible vice-presidential interview with Mr. [Sleezebag]. (Mr. Hannity had been lobbying Mr. [Sleezebag] to choose Mr. Gingrich.)

Mr. Ailes opted against forcing Mr. Hannity to collect the fare from Mr. Gingrich. He had a possible reason: Mr. Hannity was among those supporting Mr. Ailes amid the sexual harassment scandal, eventually even discussing a walkout in the event of Mr. Ailes’s ouster, as Breitbart reported a few days later. (After Fox News executives shared with Mr. Hannity and others the full details of the allegations, which Mr. Ailes denies, the talk of a walkout ended.)

Mr. Hannity says Mr. Gingrich is a very close friend and it’s his business what favors he does for him, though he left open the possibility that Mr. Gingrich might cut a check for the plane trip just the same. Since Mr. Ailes’s departure, Fox executives have not pushed the issue. Nor, apparently, have they warned Mr. Hannity away from giving advice to Mr. [Sleezebag] and his campaign — at least not so far during a turbulent time at the network.

Then again, at this point there are questions about how much advice Mr. Ailes himself was lending to Mr. [Sleezebag] when he was running the place, given that, as The Times reported on Saturday, he has already emerged as an influential [Sleezebag] adviser.

Mr. Hannity told me his support for Mr. [Sleezebag] makes him “more honest” than mainstream reporters who hide their biases. It turns out even “honesty” is a relative concept these days. For some people more than others.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 22, 2016, 05:36:33 PM
Now I am wondering as to what Howard thinks of both [Sleezebag] and Johnson...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 22, 2016, 06:51:36 PM
Howard?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on August 22, 2016, 07:31:48 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqcJmFuWVk#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 23, 2016, 01:43:39 AM
E_T's questions raised a related question in my mind- How is the network news coverage of Gary Johnson?

Well, CNN, has hosted a couple of town halls, Fusion has done one, and FOX has one scheduled for the 26th. Doing my daily Googles, I don't remember a lot of network stories from the broadcasters, so I dug into it.

I did searches, such as "Gary Johnson NBC ", and hit the news tab. I started sifting through the results. The first thing which I was reminded of was that all of the News networks sponsor polls, so you will get hits with a byline like USA Today, US News& World Report, Huffington Post, etc, reporting and commenting on the latest polls.

The next thing I noticed is that it's not just NBC and affiliates, it's MSNBC, CNBC, etc. Likewise other Networks have business or Latino channels.

So I ignored the other bylines in my results that were simply reporting polls or offering commentary on network stories or town halls. I looked only at August.

They added up- NBC had time to fill on it's channels. ABC has a Montana affiliate that seems to be interested in the campaign. FOX Business seems to have a libertarian streak. PBS News appeared to be attempting balanced coverage. Most everybody had something a few times a week...except

CBS! I think they had one hit, and one for their NY affiliate. That's it. Maybe they are pro-Hillary and their polling indicates that Johnson hurts her a little more than [Sleezebag]. Maybe they are more apolitical... don't know, but it sticks out.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 23, 2016, 01:51:27 AM
ISTR when I was growing up my parents thought CBS News skewed Democratic...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 23, 2016, 02:29:35 AM
I have always found PBS to be as objective as possible in this day and age...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 23, 2016, 02:39:51 AM
I watched the last convention on PBS, and I really liked their talking heads...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 23, 2016, 03:17:39 PM
I avoid the political debates because the people tend to ask asinine questions that appear never to reflect the realistic questions of a country. A hypothetical example: Interviewer: What do you believe remains the most significant challenges the country faces in the near future?
Candidates: The economy remains in shambles and the president must spur the congress to make realistic reforms for the betterment of the whole country.
What does the answer even mean? Why do a few businesses control the majority of our economic might?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 23, 2016, 08:42:14 PM
Obviously I do Google searches on candidates every day. Today's [Sleezebag] headlines are too unusual to withhold. To be fair, the articles aren't nearly as interesting as the list.

*Donald [Sleezebag]'s poll watching talk spurs call for international monitors of US elections.

*Donald [Sleezebag] is abandoning every network but FOX.

* Melania [Sleezebag] threatens to sue news outlets.

* [Sleezebag]'s History undermines [Sleezebag]'s new outreach to Black voters.

* [Sleezebag] cancels Nevada, Colorado, Oregon events.

* 12-year old running [Sleezebag] campaign in Colorado.

* It sure sounds like Donald [Sleezebag] is considering his biggest flip-flop yet

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 24, 2016, 08:55:28 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/24/the-government-needs-to-stop-stifling-economic-growth-gary-johnson-commentary.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/24/the-government-needs-to-stop-stifling-economic-growth-gary-johnson-commentary.html)

The government needs to stop stifling economic growth

Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for president
2 Hours Ago

The sharing economy has captivated the attention of so many users and participants because services like Uber and Lyft enable more efficiency and convenience than hailing a cab. Have a spare room to rent out? That's done simply and easily with Airbnb or HomeAway.


Technology is making it easier for all of us to be entrepreneurs — and that's a good thing.


What should be the government's role in looking at such services as new opportunity generators? It's simple: Government should stay out of the way, limiting its involvement to the Hippocratic Oath: "First, do no harm."

But instead we're seeing established politicians team up with special interests in an effort to strangle new forms of enterprise and innovation from gaining traction — and threatening those special interests.

Politicians like Hillary Clinton look at sharing services like travel, ride-sharing, finance, staffing, and music and video streaming and see a problem. These "problems" are expected to grow from $15 billion to $335 billion in less than a decade, according to PricewaterhouseCoopers. It appears consumers and the marketplace view them more favorably.

Too many politicians pretend to believe companies are luring people to drive cars without giving them real jobs. She's decried this "gig economy" as "raising hard questions about workplace protections and what a good job will look like in the future."

I've got news for those politicians, including Hillary Clinton: The future is already here. It's a future of entrepreneurship.


As an entrepreneur who started a one-man handyman business in 1974, which I grew to be a more-than-1,000-person construction firm, I understand the power of working for yourself. I also shared the profits with my company, creating entrepreneurial opportunity for my own employees.

Millennials understand this mindset better than others. They've grown up in an on-demand world. Is it any surprise that two-thirds of them say that they want to be entrepreneurs at some point in their lives?


Entrepreneurship may be celebrated in the abstract — but too many politicians have no hesitation in using government power to stop innovation. The challenge has become so obstructive that one technology trade group, the Consumer Technology Association, has had to put together a "Disruptive Innovation Council" to specifically fight governments and established companies from strangling new businesses in the cradle.


Sometimes these politicians say they are protecting workers. They use words and phrases like "the hollowness of the Uber economy," in one critique in the Baltimore Sun, or "the Sharing Economy is Not Your Friend," from a piece in Vice.


But Uber has enabled hundreds of thousands of drivers to share rides. With its rival Lyft, they've finally brought competition to the regulation-bound taxicab market, where medallion owners enjoy monopoly profit from monopoly rents bound up in a crony-capitalist arrangement that barred people from simply connecting as willing buyers and sellers of a basic service.

And drivers don't necessarily want to be employees. Indeed, the flexibility of the sharing economy is one of the very keys to its success. In fact, more than half of drivers valued that freedom as the most important reason for doing it. About 8 in 10 Lyft drivers choose to drive 15 hours a week or less, and half of Uber drivers are on the road fewer than 10 hours a week.


Here's the dirty little secret: The establishment isn't really interested in making our lives easier or more convenient. To the contrary, their self- interests are best served by protecting us to death. Indeed, the Obama administration's Labor Department is so intent on tightening the classifications of independent contractors that soon there won't be any.


City after city is regulating and outright banning Airbnb — prohibiting homeowners from earning extra cash, much of which, ironically, would be spent in those same communities, providing jobs and, yes, tax revenues.


The same kind of special interest assault on entrepreneurship is happening under the name of occupational licensing. In the 1970s, only 10 percent of workers were subject to such licensing, a number that now totals 30 percent, according to a Morris M. Kleiner report. Lifting restrictions on occupational licensing is one of four keys to unlocking U.S. economic growth, according to the Cato Institute.

The entrepreneurial economy exemplified by companies like Uber and Airbnb is really only beginning. Besides the expected growth in nontraditional approaches to services like travel, ride-sharing and staffing, technology and entrepreneurs will soon take us to places where other services, such as health care, will be similarly transformed — if only government and the politicians will get out of the way.


Being ever an optimist, I am confident that even the government cannot forever stand in the way of an entrepreneurial transformation that consumers and the marketplace are so clearly demanding. And the result of that revolution will be really good for all of us, with the possible exception of recalcitrant politicians and their special interest patrons.

Commentary by Gary Johnson, a two-term governor of New Mexico and the Libertarian Party candidate for president. His running mate is former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld. Read more about their campaign at www.johnsonweld.com (http://www.johnsonweld.com). Follow him on Twitter @GovGaryJohnson.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 24, 2016, 11:06:35 PM
This page is proving a challenge to cut and paste. You might want to see the graphics if you care about Stein. I've said before that I think she is tap dancing and parsing some medical science to please her party. Or sounding alarmist to draw attention to herself and her issues. That said, I think she is being mischaracterized in the media because she makes Hillary look bad, and cuts into her support.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3444426/jill-stein-is-not-anti-science/ (http://www.inquisitr.com/3444426/jill-stein-is-not-anti-science/)

Opinion
August 23, 2016

Jill Stein is Not Anti-Science, People!

Caitlin Johnstone


The following article is entirely the opinion of Caitlin Johnstone and does not reflect the views of the Inquisitr.


Another email leak from the neoliberal think tank has revealed a calculated agenda to slander Green Party presidential nominee Dr. Jill Stein with rumors that they know to be entirely unfounded, further illustrating just how terrified the Democratic party is of a progressive takeover. Professional neoliberal Robert Naiman circulated a list of attack editorials against Stein among his drooling lackeys, prefaced by the following statement.



“If you have a lot of Facebook friends, you may have recently noticed a high level of activity on your Facebook feed by Jill Stein acolytes.

If so, you may find the following links useful to throw them off their game. No warranty, express or implied. You don’t have to prove that Jill Stein is an anti-science conspiracy theorist. You just have to say, ‘There are unanswered questions about whether Jill Stein is an anti-science conspiracy theorist.'”

In other words, “Deliberately cast baseless suspicion on her.”

So I hope that clarifies what’s happening here a bit. If you’re one of the people going around flinging the term “anti-science” around in connection with Jill Stein’s name, those may feel like your own thoughts, and you may even labor under the delusion that you came up with them yourself, but in actuality they are a pre-packaged mind-virus cooked up by professional slander experts like Robert Naiman. A little critical thinking is all it takes to inoculate yourself, though.

Here’s a video of Dr. Stein clearly putting to bed the baseless accusation that she might be anti-vaccination in some way at her CNN town hall last week:

*****

There are 8 or ten more paragraphs getting into the details, but this laptop isn't gonna make it happen today.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 25, 2016, 01:04:39 AM
Gleanings-

* Johnson confirmed on Ohio ballot as an independent.

* Speaking of independents, Evan McMullin is having a rough go of it. I mentioned before that he's not getting a lot of media coverage. He won't be on a lot of ballots, either. Oh sure he had some money and volunteers, and amazingly he has already made the ballot on 5 states. The trouble is that Tennessee, with the low, low hurdle of 275 names won't let him on the ballot. Why? Because he has no declared VP running mate. I overlooked that. It kinda tells me that he's not very serious. He's blown a lot of filing deadlines, and is talking about getting on the ballots through write-in campaigns, court fights, and fringe party endorsements. I can tell you that that is not a cost-effective approach.
Me,  I kinda want my elected execs to be cost conscious long term planners.

*“Well, I’m going to announce something over the next two weeks, but it’s going to be a very firm policy,” [Sleezebag] told WPEC.

“We’re very, very firm on immigration,” he added. “We’re going to build a wall, it’s got to be a very powerful wall. But we want people to come into our country, but we want them to come in legally, but we’re going to be very, very strong on immigration.”

*
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 25, 2016, 02:17:28 AM
 ;goofy;
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 25, 2016, 02:41:55 AM
From the Washington Post, which is rather pro Hillary and DNC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/23/now-hillary-has-a-big-clinton-foundation-problem-too/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/23/now-hillary-has-a-big-clinton-foundation-problem-too/)

The Fix
Now Hillary has a big Clinton Foundation problem, too

Hillary Clinton has never been great at understanding that, in politics, perception almost always equals reality. Witness this story that just broke from the Associated Press:


More than half the people outside the government who met with Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state gave money — either personally or through companies or groups — to the Clinton Foundation. It's an extraordinary proportion indicating her possible ethics challenges if elected president.

At least 85 of 154 people from private interests who met or had phone conversations scheduled with Clinton while she led the State Department donated to her family charity or pledged commitments to its international programs, according to a review of State Department calendars released so far to The Associated Press. Combined, the 85 donors contributed as much as $156 million. At least 40 donated more than $100,000 each, and 20 gave more than $1 million.

So, er, okay.

Let's stipulate two things here before I go any further:

1. Correlation is not causation.

2. Quid pro quos are very, very, very hard to prove.

But, COME ON, MAN. It is literally impossible to look at those two paragraphs and not raise your eyebrows. Half of all of the nongovernmental people Clinton either met with or spoke to on the phone during her four years at the State Department were donors to the Clinton Foundation! HALF.

And those 85 people donated $156 million, which, according to my calculator, breaks down to an average contribution just north of $1.8 million. (Yes, I know that not everyone gave the same amount.)

No one is alleging that the Clinton Foundation didn't (and doesn't) do enormous amounts of good around the world. It does. (That's for you, my dearest Twitter haters.) But what the Clinton Foundation does with the money it receives isn't the point here. At issue is whether there was a too-fuzzy line between Clinton's work at the State Department and the contributions being made to the foundation. And while nothing in the AP story is proof of any wrongdoing, it is proof of bad judgment.

There's no planet on which this sentence could ever be good for a politician running for office -- much less the presidency: "More than half the people outside the government who met with Hillary Clinton while she was secretary of state gave money — either personally or through companies or groups — to the Clinton Foundation."

What's remarkable to me is that no one -- not Clinton, not her most loyal lieutenant, Huma Abedin, not Bill Clinton -- saw the possible appearance of a conflict of interest inherent in this setup.  Especially because Hillary Clinton's presidential ambitions were never not a thing when she was at the State Department. It was always a possibility that she would run again for president. And yet, this.

The argument from Clinton's campaign and her loyalists to this latest news will go something like this: She met with these people because they had legitimate business before the State Department. Whether or not they donated to the Clinton Foundation was not part of her calculations for deciding whether to take a meeting or a phone call. The donations are purely coincidental.

Simplify that line of defense and you get this: Trust us. Trust us that donations to the Clinton Foundation were totally isolated from Clinton's official business at State. It's impossible to prove us right. But trust us.

That's exactly the argument that Clinton is making when it comes to the 30,000-plus emails that were permanently deleted from her private email server because her team of lawyers deemed them entirely personal in nature. Even though those lawyers didn't read the emails and we know from FBI Director James B. Comey that several thousand work-related emails that Clinton didn't turn over were found in other places, we need to simply trust Clinton that this was all done on the up and up.

[ there was a graphic showing that 50 percent of the Clinton e-mails were withheld as personal and private, 44 percent released to state dept., including  state.gov addresses, and 5 percent released to state department with other addresses. ]

To be clear: I have no evidence -- none -- that Clinton broke any law or did anything intentionally shady. But, man oh man, does this latest news about the Clinton Foundation cloud her campaign's attempts to paint the charity group and her State Department as totally separate and unconnected entities.

If you are Donald [Sleezebag] -- or any Republican -- trying to sell the idea that the Clintons are and always have operated on a "pay to play" model, you just got a gift more amazing than you could have ever hoped to get.  [Sleezebag] has to date looked any number of gift horses in the mouth. Will he do it again?
*****
Rusty Commentary- When I dug into the e-mail thing months ago, I figured that the Clinton Foundation was going to be the real issue, maybe even the real reason she had her private server in the first place... well that and 1/4 million dollar speaking gigs. But I didn't anticipate this hitting the fan until after the election, but before inauguration day.

I think it's a mischaracterization that nobody foresaw a problem with conflict of interest and the Clinton Foundation. In fact Obama did. Hillary promised complete transparency. I think she only delivered a report to Obama the first year, didn't have independent audits, and revised multiple years of tax returns as soon as questions were raised about the Foundation's sources. This coupled with the claim of a Saudi Prince ( suddenly pulled from the internet ) that the Saudi royal family had funded 20% of Clinton's presidential campaign formed my opinion that the Foundation was a slush fund.

But as I readily admit, I am biased against her, and don't believe much of anything she says.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 25, 2016, 04:09:25 AM
I don't think I have seen anyone (here) supporting the Greens, so...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 25, 2016, 04:18:47 AM
What kind of satanic shenanigans would occur with a romantic relationship between the Hildabeast and the pig? What kind of salacious imagery comes into the mind of a demented person? Every time I hear the two politicians from a media source I think about the following songs  ;) (I think of the whole matter in a facetious manner):
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aLyFgYPaY#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 25, 2016, 05:12:26 AM
I don't think I have seen anyone (here) supporting the Greens, so...

No. But it is an international forum, and I'm trying to be respectful.

Well, frankly, the Greens are lefty extremists by my standards, and I wish they would go away. I don't want their party established and if they were entirely out of the picture Johnson might be at the critical 15% by now.   However, on Isidewith Jill is a distant second for me, probably because she's not the authoritarian warmongering crony capitalist drug warrior that ClinTrump is.

So sometimes I think she deserves to be heard, and I always take issue when somebody's being mis-represented in the press. It's hard enough to get your positions out there so that the voters can make informed choices as it is.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on August 25, 2016, 05:25:52 AM
I think we should give the green environmentalists some credit because the party wants to reduce the number of environmental disasters that result from an industrialized economy (Deep Water Horizon Oil Spill anyone?).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 25, 2016, 02:36:41 PM

Gary Johnson's Interview on the Five FNC 8/23/16

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k566Xb7Jb_E#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 25, 2016, 02:38:46 PM
I don't think I have seen anyone (here) supporting the Greens, so...

No. But it is an international forum, and I'm trying to be respectful.

Well, frankly, the Greens are lefty extremists by my standards, and I wish they would go away. I don't want their party established and if they were entirely out of the picture Johnson might be at the critical 15% by now.   However, on Isidewith Jill is a distant second for me, probably because she's not the authoritarian warmongering crony capitalist drug warrior that ClinTrump is.

So sometimes I think she deserves to be heard, and I always take issue when somebody's being mis-represented in the press. It's hard enough to get your positions out there so that the voters can make informed choices as it is.

Ditto
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 26, 2016, 05:07:57 AM
Johnson actually got some props from Salon for that encounter on "The Five"

Due to hardware issues, I won't attempt to cut and paste any articles today.

GLEANINGS-

* Johnson has adapted his position on vaccines to fit the science, coming down on the public health side and alienating personal choice Libertarians and anti-vaxers.

* Rather than open the books on the Clinton Foundation to prove that Hillary's State Department was never for sale, she has instead gone on the counter-offensive against [Sleezebag].

* [Sleezebag] is sounding like Jeb Bush on immigration, which [Sleezebag] at the time described as "Weak on immigration".

*[Sleezebag] got a negative re-action on the policy change , and in something that reminds me of his abortion interview with Chris Matthews, has stated other positions since so that in reality.... I have no idea where he stands on immigration

* John McCain leads his Trumpian challenger in the polls 56-32, with the primary on Tuesday. The challenger is getting ugly, suggesting that McCain is close to death because he is 80, even though his 104 year old mother is still alive.

* Bernie has rolled out his advocacy group "Our Revolution". Surprisingly, it is a 501(c)4 ... a dark money PAC designed to accept large amounts of money anonymously. Also he has hired his former campaign manager, who was accused of wasting money and creating a hostile work environment. Whichever the reason - 8 staffers quit before it even launched.

*A Quinnipiac poll says that 62% want Johnson included in the debates
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 26, 2016, 12:59:38 PM
The newsies won't be posting that poll result anytime soon...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 27, 2016, 12:50:40 AM
Okay. One of the Super-Pacs supporting Johnson has come up with this ad. I found it pretty funny, because I hate Hillary and fear [Sleezebag]. Funniest thing I've heard this week. I also found the concept it's promoting interesting. I've heard of US Senators doing something similar- pairing off across the aisle and missing a vote, particularly one that's been poisoned with amendments.

I thought of Buncle when it got to the part that said Hillary's views are the same as Dick Cheney's, except he supported gay marriage sooner.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLAh3pui-CI&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 27, 2016, 01:30:31 AM
THAT is the best campaign ad I have ever seen in my entire life.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 27, 2016, 04:33:58 AM
The Mrs. doesn't buy into The Balanced Rebellion concept. She didn't find it as hilarious as I did, because she thought it was too tragically true to be funny. She's probably not the target audience, and she decided she was voting for Johnson a month or more ago.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 27, 2016, 06:34:55 AM
Today's GLEANINGS-

Gary Johnson-

* Will not be included in the NBC/CNBC "Commander -in-Chief" Town Hall for the Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan that will feature both [Sleezebag] and Hillary. Apparently [Sleezebag] & Hillary  will not appear together, in order to appease the Commission on Presidential Debates, because the Two parties and the major networks have this binding agreement.

There was a lot of pressure from veterans and families to include Johnson, who polls higher than both Clinton & [Sleezebag] among active duty troops. The compromise was to give Johnson his own Town Hall on the subject on CNBC.

* Continued his New England tour in Maine. They think he has a legitimate shot at an elector there, because they are awarded by Congressional district, not state-wide.

* Clarified his recent positions/shifts on John Stossel's show on FOX Business- promoted as a Town Hall. It did follow that format, but it was as sympathetic a host and audience as you are likely to see, except for Hannity & [Sleezebag] or perhaps Hillary on MSNBC. The Libertarian convention would have been much harsher.  Positions such as -

Vaccination- Properly a states issue, but if it reaches his desk in some form as president, he believes that vaccines work safely, had his own kids vaccinated, and will vote on the side of science.

Carbon Taxes- He has been against "Cap and trade". He recently stated he would consider carbon fees as a preferable market based, rather than regulatory approach to global warming, which he believes is real and man made in part. Tonight he has back-tracked explaining that the track record of carbon taxation falls far short of the theory, and he can't support them.

When asked yet again about Nazi cakes and Jewish bakers, etc.  Johnson was firm about offering the same protections against discrimination, whether it's based upon race, religion, or sexual orientation.

Bernie Sanders
* Has dropped out of the Democratic Party to run for his Senate seat as an independent.

Hillary

* While the "over half of those not in government who met with Clinton contributed to the Foundation" claim is not based upon a representative sample, but only on cross checking limited, available lists. It is clear that there was no wall of separation between the foundation and the State Department. It is clear that a lot of money was given by those who talked to Hillary. No proof of wrongdoing yet. No data on the efficiency of the foundation, which is sort of secretive.

* Notable NeoCon PAul Wolfowitz "might have to vote for Hillary"

* Hillary gets labor Union endorsements.

[Sleezebag]-

* His campaign manager has a checkered past.
* Economists doubt his economic plans.
* [Sleezebag]'s doctor says he wrote that statement about his physical fitness for the presidency in 5 minutes.
* The more [Sleezebag] talks about Immigration policy, the more confused it seems.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 27, 2016, 08:55:41 PM
GLEANINGS-
Johnson-

* Forgot to report that 538 says Johnson is breaking the rules about 3rd party candidates fading after the Major Party conventions. They may reconsider their projections. The trouble is, he's not exactly breaking out, either. NBC has him at 11% again.

*"The former New Mexico governor’s campaign is spending $806,195 this month on radio ads in Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Wisconsin, according to a media buying source." Billboards and radio. Well, I still don't think Johnson can beat Hillary here in a presidential year. But, [Sleezebag]? If they make the case...Oh Yeah! Wisconsin is a Never [Sleezebag] state.

Hillary-
*Hillary was the first to denounce the price gouging on the epi-pens. The Trouble is the CEO, formerly a lobbyist and daughter of a Democratic senator and Clinton supporter, is also a Clinton Foundation donor.

[Sleezebag]-
* [Sleezebag] did an interview with Anderson Cooper, his first non-FOX TV interview in some time. It didn't go well, because he pressed [Sleezebag] on the Immigration/deportation Flip. [Sleezebag] is not expected to interview other TV networks again.

* I really wanted to find a story about [Sleezebag] and his campaign that was positive. Because there must be something positive happening , right? Voter registration, charity work, new endorsements, respectable policy positions. That sort of thing. No such luck. His Black outreach is backfiring. News coverage is about his racially prejudiced history. Campus Republican groups are opposing him, splintering, and fighting between chapters over their positions. There must be some reason for the slight tightening of the race, but it's probably about Hillary's health, WikiLeaks, and the Clinton Foundation.

* Has [Sleezebag] jumped the shark on immigration? The Cruz camp says "I told you so", the Manchester Guardian says that [Sleezebag]'s strong suit was straight talk. With the flipflop on the core issue, has [Sleezebag] lost his loyalty?  His mojo?



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 28, 2016, 06:07:18 PM
All reasons to get Johnson into the debates.

Did you see the Stossle (sp) Town hall with both Johnson and Weld?  If you don't get a chance to post a link, I'll see what I can do later, got to go ATM...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 28, 2016, 09:31:09 PM
Watched, nothing struck me as new.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxEJd7U13zA#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 28, 2016, 10:08:25 PM
I've mentioned before that the Iraq & Afghanistan's veteran's association was doing a Commander & Chief Town Hall with [Sleezebag], who insists that the military torture ISIS and go after their families, and Hillary, who is the architect of the status quo, to be televised by NBC and CNBC. They get around the debate Commission's monopoly by having them appear separately.

The trouble is that Gary Johnson,( who advocates getting out of Afghanistan now because it won't be any easier 20 years from now, and that the Department of Defense should be used to defend America, rather than try to impose regime change) , is the most popular candidate among active duty military. He wasn't invited.

Active duty and their families have objected strenuously. They have called and petitioned. Apparently to the point of closing the office, but that hasn't stopped them. Now they are calling the association's sponsors, and the IRS challenging their tax status. As one person observes- "you guys are nothing if not organized and persistent"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/4zv5ec/the_iava_has_announced_it_is_closing_until/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/4zv5ec/the_iava_has_announced_it_is_closing_until/)

[ "As you are no doubt aware, the IAVA has decided to exclude Gary Johnson from their Commander in Chief forum on 7 September. Gary Johnson has polled higher with members of the military than either candidate invited to participate. For this reason the IAVA has been inundated with negative feedback from the Veteran and active military communities. As a response the IAVA has ceased operations until 6 September in a cowardly attempt to avoid further backlash. As a sponsor of the IAVA, your organization and contact information is now being passed around the outraged military community in an attempt to effect change. Please assist us in demanding the inclusion of Gary Johnson in the CiC Forum on 7 September. If you truly support the military community please stand with us and demand inclusion, or pull your financial support from an organization which would rather shut its doors than listen to the requests of the community it claims it stands for." ]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 28, 2016, 10:20:25 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 28, 2016, 11:18:01 PM
Yeah, pretty amazing, but these are life and death issues for these families.

*************

I didn't see this coming... THE END GAME.

-could-win-big-even-if-he-loses-election-n638326]http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-[Sleezebag]-could-win-big-even-if-he-loses-election-n638326 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-[Sleezebag)

Donald [Sleezebag] Could Win Big Even If He Loses Election

With recent polls showing Hillary Clinton maintaining a sizable lead over Republican rival Donald [Sleezebag], many Democrats are predicting a landslide win in November.

And, if [Sleezebag] does lose, many in the GOP establishment are hoping the brash and unpredictable real estate mogul turned reality TV star will just go away.

But [Sleezebag] is unlikely to do that.

Instead, with his ever-tighter ties to former Fox News chairman Roger Ailes (who is now reportedly advising the Republican candidate) and his recent hiring of former Breitbart chairman Steven Bannon, there's a growing chorus, propelled by a report in Vanity Fair, saying that [Sleezebag]'s endgame is not the nation's highest office — but to have a right-wing media outlet of his own.

Related: What will happen to the GOP after [Sleezebag]: Beyond [Sleezebag]

If [Sleezebag] lost in November and then launched his own media operation — a plan his campaign has repeatedly denied — what would it be exactly? And would it be a success?

"Losing in November would be the best thing that could happen, from a business standpoint," said Jon Klein, former president of CNN's U.S. operations. Klein, who is currently the CEO of TAPP, the subscription-based online video network that launched Sarah Palin's now defunct channel, added, "It would only increase the passion of his most hard-core supporters, and it would give them a juicy target to rail against for the next four years."

If [Sleezebag] were to launch his own media venture, we don't know what form it would take: cable TV, the internet, or something else entirely.

But Klein said the internet subscription route — in the style of Glenn Beck's Blaze TV, in which a small (by web and cable TV standards) audience pays a monthly fee for behind-paywall video content — would be highly successful in that it would eliminate the cable or satellite middleman so viewers could better "connect deeply and directly with their hero."

Whether or not an internet video network would be high-profile enough for the attention-hungry [Sleezebag] is another question.

Related: How [Sleezebag] Spent $8.4 Million to Play Digital Catch-up

"It's hard to imagine if [Sleezebag] were to be looking to build a media operation that it would be anything [except] small," said Brian Wieser, a senior analyst of advertising, media and internet at Pivotal Research Group. But to start an actual television station would cost hundreds of millions of dollars at least, which begs the question, "How much money does he really have? How much in liquid assets?" said Wieser. [Sleezebag] routinely claims to be worth $10 billion, though that figure is highly suspect.

Robert Thompson, a professor and director of the Bleier Center for Television and Popular Culture at Syracuse University, predicted a cable network would be unsuccessful for [Sleezebag] in that it's an enormous, expensive undertaking and it's already a very crowded news environment. And "for many millions of Americans the [Sleezebag] brand is already tarnished," he said.


On the other hand, "You need fewer people to make a hit night on cable television that you do to be elected president. If he could regularly have a media operation that would have 3 million people watching that would be successful," he said of [Sleezebag]. That's not an outlandish number to imagine — after all, some 14 million people voted for [Sleezebag] in the GOP primaries.

And there's another angle, too. [Sleezebag] the candidate loves to skewer the media, frequently calling it "dishonest" and "corrupt." He's arguably foreshadowing a "problem" that he can "fix."

[Sleezebag] is "already setting up a narrative, that the media is corrupt and the system is rigged against him. The natural transition is 'we need a platform to be heard,'" said Kurt Bardella, Breitbart's former spokesman who quit earlier this year and has been highly critical of [Sleezebag]. The hiring of Bannon certainly indicates that [Sleezebag] is considering a media entity for his base, he added.

And there's no doubt [Sleezebag] would love the attention of being not just a business mogul, but a media honcho, too.

"What [Sleezebag] is happiest doing is running for president, not being president — but running for president," said Thompson. "Part of that has to do with him being in the media spotlight."


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Elok on August 29, 2016, 01:21:26 AM
I read an article someone linked to on Facebook.  Got three-quarters of the way through before I realized it was "alt-right," ie some reactionary racist imbecile.  I was clued in by use of the word "cuckservative," which somebody apparently thinks is a clever coinage. 

They should put a warning label on these things.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 01:53:01 AM
Well, Thanks to this site, I have been aware of this term since last year, so any reference to it or "Anudda Shoa" is warning label.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 29, 2016, 02:15:54 AM
I am very saddened that this site had anything to do with spreading such knowledge...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 02:27:03 AM
[Sleezebag] isn't smart enough to have had this as an endgame goal, from the very begining...  But I think that it is something that Hannety (sp) had proposed as a fallback...

[PREDICTION Mode]
Post election: After getting 33% pop vote and less in Electoral Votes, [Sleezebag] will lead a split in the consevatives with the FlakeCons (just coined it) moving over to Trumps new media outlet, taking about 1/3rd of FoxNews Staff with them...  Contract penalties payed for by the new money from finacial backers for this new outlet, as [Sleezebag]'s Cashflow is stymied by the election...
[/mode]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 02:38:53 AM
I am very saddened that this site had anything to do with spreading such knowledge...


Well, like you said, differing opinions can be educational. I Google backtracked some stuff which I thought was cut and pasted and found a group of podcasters that seemed to be source of the ideas based upon various code words. Then it all made sense. Pro-T rump because he is anti-political correctness. Political correctness means you get criticized for speaking your mind as a  ( person such as described by Elok ).

*****

I'm sharing this because it shows the Gary we would see in the debates.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUBTbcou8Gc#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 04:20:03 AM
Perhaps [Sleezebag] got a dose of reality. A longer article with lots of graphics.
-flip-flopped-on-deportation-plan.html]http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/26/heres-why-[Sleezebag]-flip-flopped-on-deportation-plan.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/26/heres-why-[Sleezebag)

"In the end, the plan may have simply proved too costly — both politically and economically.

By one estimate the direct price tag for removing some 11 million undocumented workers could top $600 billion. And the economic impact of a such a sudden contraction in the U.S. labor force would lop $1.6 trillion from the nation's economy. That's roughly the gross domestic product of Texas."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 04:30:13 AM
Watched, nothing struck me as new.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxEJd7U13zA#)


Thanks for posting it for me.

I know you had seen a lot of that via other sources, but others here whom lurk might not have...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 04:34:40 AM
Perhaps T rump got a dose of reality. A longer article with lots of graphics.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/26/heres-why-T rump-flip-flopped-on-deportation-plan.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/26/heres-why-T rump-flip-flopped-on-deportation-plan.html)

"In the end, the plan may have simply proved too costly — both politically and economically.

By one estimate the direct price tag for removing some 11 million undocumented workers could top $600 billion. And the economic impact of a such a sudden contraction in the U.S. labor force would lop $1.6 trillion from the nation's economy. That's roughly the gross domestic product of Texas."


And don't forget the economic fallout from the sudden loss of that many workers that are doing jobs that no one else wants to do....  staggering doesn't even come close...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 04:53:40 AM
I am very saddened that this site had anything to do with spreading such knowledge...


Well, like you said, differing opinions can be educational. I Google backtracked some stuff which I thought was cut and pasted and found a group of podcasters that seemed to be source of the ideas based upon various code words. Then it all made sense. Pro-T rump because he is anti-political correctness. Political correctness means you get criticized for speaking your mind as a  ( person such as described by Elok ).

*****

I'm sharing this because it shows the Gary we would see in the debates.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUBTbcou8Gc#)


That talking head Chaff's my shorts...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 06:14:22 AM
Watched, nothing struck me as new.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxEJd7U13zA#)


Thanks for posting it for me.

I know you had seen a lot of that via other sources, but others here whom lurk might not have...


Okay. Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes I equate don't know with don't care.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 29, 2016, 01:09:32 PM
I am very saddened that this site had anything to do with spreading such knowledge...

Well, like you said, differing opinions can be educational. I Google backtracked some stuff which I thought was cut and pasted and found a group of podcasters that seemed to be source of the ideas based upon various code words. Then it all made sense. Pro-T rump because he is anti-political correctness. Political correctness means you get criticized for speaking your mind as a  ( person such as described by Elok ).

*****

I'm sharing this because it shows the Gary we would see in the debates.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUBTbcou8Gc#)


That talking head Chaff's my shorts...
You are not alone.  John Stossel is a horrid little ignoramus/loudmouth.
Title: What is the ‘alt-right’? A beginner’s guide
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 29, 2016, 04:08:15 PM
Quote
What is the ‘alt-right’? A beginner’s guide
Yahoo
Caitlin Dickson  Breaking News Reporter  August 25, 2016


(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/g2sBQVL62jfKxy8EW59gvQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9NDk2/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/90c0015300800787860b222db324bd7c)
From left, Andrew Anglin, The Daily Stormer; Richard Spencer, The Alternative Right; Jared Taylor, American Renaissance; Matthew Heimbach; David Duke; Milo Yiannopoulos and Steve Bannon. (Yahoo News photo illustration; photos: AP, Facebook, Getty Images, Reuters)



A political movement most Americans have never heard of is suddenly in the spotlight, thanks to Donald T rump — who has hired one of its leading spokesmen to run his campaign — and Hillary Clinton, whose speech planned for Thursday afternoon is expected to denounce it.

It’s the “alt-right,” a loose aggregation of bloggers, radio hosts, think tanks and activists that emerged from the “white nationalist” movement of the 1980s and 1990s. It occupies positions on the far right of American politics, but it is not primarily about the issues that motivate mainstream conservatives, such as taxes or government spending. Instead, it postulates that the culture of white America is under attack, and sees itself as its defender.

T rump has for much of his campaign flirted with “alt-right” themes, mostly through retweets, some of which he later disavowed. When former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke — a major figure in the “alt-right” world — urged his supporters to back T rump, the candidate maintained, implausibly, he didn’t know anything about Duke before grudgingly disavowing the support.

But with the hiring of Breitbart Media chairman Steve Bannon as CEO of his campaign, T rump has embraced someone at the heart of the movement, who boasted of turning Breitbart.com into “the platform of the alt-right.” Duke himself celebrated the hiring with the boast: “We’ve taken over the Republican Party,” although presumably the party’s mainstream leadership would disagree.

There are, of course, many strains of thinking under the “alt-right” umbrella. Some factions are preoccupied with a return to “traditional values,” while others espouse a philosophy called “Human Biodiversity”: the belief that there are significant biological differences between people of different races, which justifies treating them differently. (The other name for this is “scientific racism.”) Anti-Semitism is common, in various forms, ranging from Holocaust denial to full-bore denunciations of Jews as agents of the collapse of white Christian society. Bannon, personally, has not been accused of anti-Semitism, however.

The common thread, however, that connects members of these different factions is a shared desire to protect Western civilization from what many refer to as “white genocide.” This manifests in opposition to things like immigration and multiculturalism, as well as a steadfast aversion to political correctness and to establishment politics of all kinds, including Republican.

The term “alt-right” was coined in 2008 by Richard Spencer, who runs the National Policy Institute, a white nationalist think tank. Spencer founded the influential Alternative Right blog in 2010 to define the movement’s core principles.

The term represented a “shallow rebranding” of white nationalism, according to Heidi Beirich, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups. “They don’t want to be identified as white nationalists anymore,” she said. “People associate that with white supremacy, which is what it is, so instead they changed it to ‘alt-right.’”

And with that, Beirich said, the movement quickly made its way from the fringe “into right-wing politics.”

“They’re self-mainstreaming,” she said. “But it should be called out for what it is, which is just pure racism.”

Spencer’s own reasons for supporting T rump seem to directly reflect the alt-right’s central “white genocide” fears.

Asked by a reporter at the Republican National Convention about the possibility that some of T rump’s policy proposals, such as banning Muslims from entering the country or abolishing birthright citizenship, might be unconstitutional, Spencer replied, “Who cares? The whole point is that we’ve got to survive.”



“Whether something is constitutionally legal I could give a s*** to be honest. Survival is more important than law,” he continued, adding, “power is what matters.”

Other key “alt-right” figures include Andrew Anglin, who endorsed T rump for president on his neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer almost immediately after T rump announced his candidacy last June, and Jared Taylor, a prominent white nationalist leader who has long promoted eugenics and racial segregation through his American Renaissance magazine and now Amren.com.

Back in January, Taylor lent his voice to thousands of pro-T rump robocalls in Iowa sponsored by the white nationalist American Freedom Party in which he told voters, “We don’t need Muslims. We need smart, well-educated white people who will assimilate to our culture.”

Yet, ahead of Clinton’s speech on Thursday, Taylor dismissed “the attempt to link Donald T rump to the alt-right [as] a standard lefty campaign technique.”

“Find someone with certain views who supports your opponent and then suggest your opponent shares those views,” Taylor told Yahoo News. “It is illogical and unfair to act as if Mr. T rump is responsible for the opinions of all of his supporters.”

There’s also Matthew Heimbach, who’s been widely regarded as the future of white nationalism since his senior year at Towson University in 2013, when he gained national attention (including from this reporter) for establishing the school’s first white student union. This April, the 25-year-old was caught on video shoving and shouting racial epithets at an African-American protester during a T rump rally in Louisville, Ky.

And James Edwards, host of The Political Cesspool radio program, which, according to the statement of principles on the show’s website, “stands for the Dispossessed Majority” and promotes “a philosophy that is pro-White.”

Edwards caused a firestorm for the T rump campaign back in March when he promoted a 20-minute interview with Donald T rump Jr., which the candidate’s son insisted he would “never have done” had he been aware of Edwards’ white nationalist views.

Yet by July, Edwards had managed to get an all-access media credential for the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, where he interviewed several GOP members of Congress and a T rump campaign official. According to the progressive, nonprofit media watchdog Media Matters for America, “Edwards pointed to his attendance at the convention as evidence that he and his radio program are going ‘mainstream.’”

For almost a year, “alt-right” provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos has been at the helm of Breitbart News’ tech section. An outspoken adversary of all things politically correct, Yiannopoulos has used the Internet as a platform to take on everything from feminism to gay rights — despite being a homosexual himself. In January, he created the Yiannopoulos Privilege Grant, a scholarship fund “exclusively available to white men who wish to pursue their post-secondary education on equal footing with their female, queer and ethnic minority classmates.” And last month, he was permanently banned from Twitter after he launched a racist harassment campaign against African-American actress Leslie Jones.

Apart from Bannon, none of these figures has any role in the T rump campaign, which has harnessed some of their energy and themes without specifically embracing them. And they do the same.

“They don’t necessarily think T rump is one of them, but he creates a space for them,” said Pete Montgomery, a senior fellow at People for the American Way and author of the blog Right Wing Watch. He notes that Duke, Spencer, Anglin and others who have endorsed T rump have qualified their support by saying they don’t agree with everything he says.

“I do not believe he would solve all or even most of the problems we are facing, but he is absolutely the only candidate who is even talking about anything at all that matters,” wrote Anglin shortly after T rump launched his campaign. “T rump is willing to say what most Americans think: it’s time to deport these people. He is also willing to call them out as criminal rapists, murderers and drug dealers.”


]https://www.yahoo.com/news/alt-beginners-guide-000000002.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/alt-beginners-guide-000000002.html[/size)
[/url]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 05:25:57 PM
As I had said....  FlakeCons....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 29, 2016, 05:43:09 PM
You know, these are the kinds of people that I swore an oath, even though I am no longer active duty, to Protect and Defend the Consitution of the United States, from enemies, Foriegn and Domestic...  it is the homegrown ones that you really need to watch out for...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on August 29, 2016, 06:25:36 PM
Hate is hate and nothing else - and that's just not the American Way...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
As I had said....  FlakeCons....

Well, now I'm sure which ones you mean. Soon to be appearing on [Sleezebag] TV!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 29, 2016, 07:38:32 PM
-campaigning-for-gary-johnson-to-make-the-debates/]http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-isnt-donald-[Sleezebag]-campaigning-for-gary-johnson-to-make-the-debates/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-isnt-donald-[Sleezebag)

This is an opinion piece.  Basically he says that [Sleezebag] can't win without a reshuffle because of his astronomical negatives.  A 3-way debate is preferable to a terrorist attack. What does he have to lose? Why not play the populist card and threaten to boycott if Johnson isn't included?

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 30, 2016, 12:14:10 AM
This is a Gary Johnson Editorial about Immigration on CNN, ahead of T rump's supposed Immigration speech on Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/opinions/making-legal-immigration-attainable-johnson/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/29/opinions/making-legal-immigration-attainable-johnson/index.html)

Gary Johnson: Build a better immigration system, not a wall

By Gary Johnson
Updated 12:38 PM ET, Mon August 29, 2016


Gary Johnson is the presidential nominee for the Libertarian Party and a former governor of New Mexico. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.


 (CNN) — I'm tired of hearing about a big, beautiful wall and who should pay for it. And I'm weary of hearing politicians try to gain votes on the backs of immigrants, both legal and undocumented, by calling one another bigots.

As a white guy who served two terms as Governor of New Mexico, a border state with by far the largest percentage of Latino residents in the nation, I really wish the nativists and panderers alike would just take a break, admit what the real problems are, and let common sense prevail.

There's a reason why Donald T rump is now fumbling his way toward the "middle" on immigration policy, after having gained the Republican nomination on nativist promises to build a wall along our Mexico border and deport 11 million undocumented immigrants.

Rounding up more than 11 million people -- a population larger than all but the 7 largest states in the union -- is a ludicrous notion to begin with. Everyone knows it, including Donald T rump. It was a lie cloaked in a promise. Even if it were possible, the idea of federal authorities rounding up millions of people and loading them on buses is an image America could never stomach.

Americans know better. They know that the only realistic and, to borrow from this week's language from Mr. T rump, humane policy is to find a fair and safe way to allow non-criminal, undocumented immigrants to get right with the law and go about their lives, paying taxes, having a valid Social Security number, and earning a legal status.


No cutting the line. No "special" path to citizenship. Just a common sense way for undocumented immigrants with jobs, families, and a clean record to come forward and live by the same rules as the rest of us.

Polls show that even a majority of Republicans, the same folks who nominated Donald T rump, favor such a common sense, American approach.

Let's not forget why we came to have more than 11 million undocumented immigrants in the first place. The fear-mongers would have you believe 11 million people swam the Rio Grande, burrowed under a fence or otherwise sneaked into our communities in the dead of night. Yes, some of them did. But a significant number of undocumented immigrants actually came here legally -- and stayed.

Many didn't come—and nor do they remain--for nefarious reasons, but because they found work, established relationships or joined family members. They couldn't stay legally due to special-interest-driven restrictions on their visas. They were students who graduated or found jobs, seasonal workers who found year-round work, or children brought here by their parents.

Of those who did hike the mountains of Arizona or stow away in a container ship, how many of them would have rather come here legally if the line to enter was actually moving? Almost all of them.

But our politicians, both right and left, have created a system for legal immigration that simply doesn't work. We have artificial quotas. We have "caps" on certain categories of workers that have no real relationship to the realities of the free market. It's no coincidence that recent history shows the only successful way to reduce illegal immigration is to have a recession. Over the past 10 years, both illegal entries and the number of undocumented immigrants in the country have declined. That's not because the government did anything right.

Even for those from the right countries or with the right skills, our bureaucracy makes it ridiculously slow and cumbersome to come here legally. If it took months or years to get a driver's license, how many of us would throw up our hands, get behind the wheel, and take our chances driving without one? You know who you are.

The way to stop illegal entry is to spend our resources making legal entry efficient for people coming here for the right reasons. Instead, our politicians want to spend those resources building walls, militarizing the border and "stepping up enforcement." Did they ever stop to think we are enforcing the wrong things against the wrong people?

Try this, instead: No caps. No categories. No quotas. Just a straightforward background check, the proper paperwork to obtain a real Social Security number and work legally or prove legitimate family ties, and a reliable system to know who is coming and who is going. Border enforcement will become what it should be: Keeping out real criminals, would-be terrorists and others sneaking across the border for the wrong reasons.

Stop sending drones out to keep a mother from crossing over with her kids to join their father, and focus on stopping the actual bad guys -- or finding them if they slip by. That's what will make us safer.

We really are a nation of immigrants, and we've become the greatest nation on earth without big walls and nativism. Yes, borders must mean something. Sovereignty and civilization depend on them. But before we turn El Paso into a replica of Cold War Berlin or contemplate loading families on deportation buses, let's take a breath, recognize the real problem -- a flawed system -- and fix it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 30, 2016, 03:27:35 AM
Maybe no news is "good news", but on the presidential campaign, no news results in weird news.

Apparently ClinTrump is prepping for the debates rather than speechifying, so less campaign news. So we read about 110 Republicans don't  support T rump, Hispanics prefer Hillary, Millennials  would much prefer Obama to ClinTrump. But then it goes off the rails- Anthony Weiner caught in another sexting scandal, his wife ( Hillary's right hand ) will finally divorce him. Some black pastor on T rump's side tweeted a cartoon of Hillary in black face that mocked her as a friend every 4 years. So what? It's not the candidates! They didn't have anything to do with it.
Guilt by association.

*Scott Adams has disabled comments on his blog.

* John McCain, who still hasn't had his primary said he is supporting T rump and will vote for him, will continue to speak out against his policies when they are wrong.

* That tells me that this rumored big announcement  at the end of this month for the Johnson campaign probably won't include a McCain endorsement,  and a Romney endorsement seems unlikely. That still leaves room for the Bush clan. Somehow, that's not as powerful as having all of the living past Republican Presidential candidates come out for Johnson, but both living GOP candidates would be nothing to sneeze at, if it still happens.

*Jill Stein finally stumbled upon a way to get attention- Tweet about Harambe. "The killing of Harambe 3 months ago today reminds us to be a voice for the voiceless." Which unleashed a new round of controversy and got her more press coverage than she's had. Maybe it was timing.

* Oh. PBS Censored Jill's criticism of Clinton and the TPP.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvqdl_CGCGk#)

*McMullin," made the ballot in Arkansas, Colorado, Iowa, Louisiana, Minnesota and Utah as of Thursday. In Arkansas, the Better for America Party secured him a ballot spot."  I think he applied in Wyoming today, but he has missed at least 30 states.

* Here's MCMullin's ad-

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_wIcnPtrOE#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 30, 2016, 11:02:34 PM
I got into an internet discussion last night and here's an excerpt-

I crunched some numbers on the 8/25/2016 Quinnipiac national poll - https://www.qu.edu/.../quinnip.../national/release-detail... (https://www.qu.edu/.../quinnip.../national/release-detail...) % Likely voters CLINTON - 15% are Pro-Hillary, 21% are anti-[Sleezebag], and 9% are ( let's call them "Tepid" ) tepid- Hillary = 45% Total CLINTON. [Sleezebag]- 10% are pro-[Sleezebag], 24% are anti-Clinton , and 4% tepid-[Sleezebag] = 38% Total [Sleezebag]. 10% JOHNSON, and 4% STEIN , for a total of 97% . I guess the other 3% are undecided or minor party voters. Suppose about half of the anti- [Sleezebag] and ant-Clinton voters paired off for Balanced Rebellion. Call it 11% each. That puts the popular vote at Clinton 34%, Johnson 32%, [Sleezebag] at 27% and Stein at 4%. That makes it a horse race.

Imagine that! Among likely fall voters, Pro -[Sleezebag] are only 10%, probably within the margin of error compared to total Johnson supporters. The rest of [Sleezebag] "supporters" are just Republicans and Hillary haters. That's not much different than the % of likely fall voters who voted for [Sleezebag] in the primaries.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on August 30, 2016, 11:25:47 PM
Heard on NPR on the way to work this mornign that T is almost even with HC on a national average (within 3%), but that specific demographics are obviously heavy one or another.  Don't know where they got their numbers from though, it was just a quick 5 second blurb. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 31, 2016, 05:48:38 AM
Numbers vary, but the race does appear to be tightening.
Hillary has been fund raising/ debate prepping/ resting.... and allowing [Sleezebag] to dominate the news, which was working in her favor, at least until the Clinton Foundation stuff came to light.

The analysis sees two shifts to explain the tightening of the popular vote - 1) Recently deciding independents moving towards [Sleezebag]. 2) Millennials shifting from Hillary to Johnson.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 31, 2016, 07:40:24 AM
GLEANINGS-

*[Sleezebag] is doing a fund raiser in CA Wednesday morning, meeting with the Mexican president in Mexico, and then having his big immigration policy speech in AZ in the evening. Will [Sleezebag] use his famed negotiation skills to get Mexico to pay for the wall and get them to build it on their side of the rivers? Who knows? If he does I'll be impressed, and if he doesn't he's a fraud. Believe me.

* Johnson is coming to my city for a rally Thursday, I just volunteered to help, so maybe I'll have something to share later.

* Former Models for Donald [Sleezebag]'s Agency Say They Violated Immigration Rules and Worked Illegally
"It's like modern-day slavery."
James West Aug. 30, 2016 12:07 PM
-model-management-illegal-immigration]http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-[Sleezebag]-model-management-illegal-immigration (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-[Sleezebag)  This seems to be the original source.

*Hillary still has a good battleground electoral college lead. North Carolina is still up for grabs, but she seems to have the rest of them under control, and a Republican needs 2 out of  these three- FLA, PA, and OH. I don't think a Republican has ever won without Ohio.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on August 31, 2016, 12:54:54 PM
You know, with the two major candidates already being 'read in' to some classified things, I wonder if Johnson is included in that, too...

Come to think of it, [Sleezebag]'s flip flop might be due to the very harsh reality that he is getting from the taste of classified info that he is learning now...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 31, 2016, 06:25:31 PM
You know, with the two major candidates already being 'read in' to some classified things, I wonder if Johnson is included in that, too...

Come to think of it, T rump's flip flop might be due to the very harsh reality that he is getting from the taste of classified info that he is learning now...

I don't think so. I probably would have read about when it happened, I did with the other two.

As for [Sleezebag]... don't know if it's the new handlers, or the security briefing, or as some say, the cost.  Say what you will, the man knows the value of a billion dollars. I think an economic argument would have gotten through first.  We'll have a better sense of it tonight.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on August 31, 2016, 10:43:57 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zoltan-istvan/no-matter-who-you-vote-fo_1_b_11787040.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zoltan-istvan/no-matter-who-you-vote-fo_1_b_11787040.html)

Hardware challenges! Basically an op-ed about why Johnson deserves inclusion in the debates.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 01, 2016, 06:08:49 AM
-immigration-speech/]http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/31/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-immigration-speech/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/31/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

[Sleezebag]: 'There will be no amnesty'
By Jeremy Diamond, CNN


Phoenix (CNN) — Donald [Sleezebag] on Wednesday stated clearly there would be "no amnesty" for undocumented immigrants living in the US, putting to rest questions about whether he was softening his stance on the issue that's driven much of his campaign.

"For those here illegally today who are seeking legal status, they will have one route and one route only. To return home and apply for re-entry like everybody else under the rules of the new legal immigration system that I have outlined today," the Republican presidential nominee said.

He added: "There will be no amnesty."

"People will know that you can't just smuggle in, hunker down and wait to be legalized -- it's not going to work that way. Those days are over," [Sleezebag] said.

Mexican president disputes [Sleezebag] over border wall payment discussion

He did not commit to deporting every undocumented immigrant living in the US as he previously had, but vowed that immigrants living in the US illegally would never have a path to legal status under his presidency.

[Sleezebag]'s hardline speech on illegal immigration contrasted strikingly with his tone in Mexico hours earlier.

He vowed to deliver "the truth" about illegal immigration as he began to lay out his policy proposals to remedy the the US immigration system, which he argued "is worse than anybody ever realized."

"If we're going to make our immigration system work, then we have to be prepared to talk honestly and without fear about these important and very sensitive issues," [Sleezebag] said.

He added: "It's our right as a sovereign nation to choose immigrants that we think are the likeliest to thrive and flourish and love us."

He also pledged his administration would enforce a "zero tolerance" policy toward criminal undocumented immigrants.

"Day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone," [Sleezebag] said of undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes in the US.

[Sleezebag] vowed to create a "deportation task force" within the Immigration and Customs Enforcement division "focused on identifying and quickly removing the most dangerous criminal illegal aliens in America."

"Maybe they'll be able to deport her," [Sleezebag] said, joking the task force could deport his Democratic rival, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Just hours after meeting with the Mexican president, [Sleezebag] reasserted his pledge to build a wall along the US-Mexico border and force Mexico to pay for the wall.

"Mexico will pay for the wall. 100%. They don't know it yet but they're going to pay for the wall," [Sleezebag] said as his supporters roared.

The many versions of a Donald [Sleezebag] meeting

The wall, [Sleezebag] said, will be "beautiful" and "impenetrable," and will include high-tech technologies to prevent illegal border crossings.

[Sleezebag] also vowed that any undocumented immigrants who are caught crossing into the US will be "detained until they are removed from our country" and sent back to their country of origin.

The speech was expected to lay out a range of policy prescriptions to stem the tide of illegal immigration and follows a week during which [Sleezebag] and his campaign publicly wrestled with how to handle the more than 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the US.

It's an especially fraught moment for the Republican nominee because he surged to victory in the primaries with hardline rhetoric against illegal immigration, including a pledge to deport all undocumented immigrants. But he appears poised to strike a more moderate tone that could appeal to suburban white voters in the general election without alienating his base.

[Sleezebag] began his week of public handwringing on the issue by vowing last Monday that he was "not flip-flopping" on immigration, but that he was looking to "come up with a fair but firm process."

The next day, he told Fox News' Sean Hannity that "there could certainly be a softening" of his deportation policy and suggested his administration would "work with" undocumented immigrants, rather than deport them -- which would mark a major flip-flop. But two days later, he told CNN's Anderson Cooper that he would offer "no path to legalization" and suggested deportation was back on the table.

Meanwhile, his campaign scrapped plans for [Sleezebag] to deliver his immigration speech last Thursday in the battleground state of Colorado and then dismissed reports [Sleezebag] speak on immigration Wednesday in Phoenix, until [Sleezebag] tweeted he would in fact deliver the speech there.

Democrats have seized on [Sleezebag]'s refusal to disavow his mass deportation plan, while [Sleezebag]'s most right-wing supporters have struggled to save face amid the real estate mogul's waffling. And some moderate Republicans have cautiously embraced [Sleezebag]'s apparent tone shift.

[Sleezebag] did not tip his hand Wednesday as he spoke alongside Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto following their meeting.

[Sleezebag] stressed the need to secure the US-Mexico border with a "physical wall," but did not signal whether he still favors deporting all undocumented immigrants living in the US.

[Sleezebag] also said that while he discussed the need for a wall with the Mexican head of state, the two did not discuss payment.

"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," [Sleezebag] said in response to a volley of questions. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date."

"Who pays for the wall? We didn't discuss," [Sleezebag] said in response to a volley of questions. "We did discuss the wall. We didn't discuss payment of the wall. That'll be for a later date."

Former Mexican President apologizes for [Sleezebag] invitation

Mexico's president disputed that assertion later Wednesday, tweeting that, "At the beginning of the conversation with Donald [Sleezebag], I made it clear that Mexico will not pay for the wall."

The [Sleezebag] campaign remained tight-lipped on the content of the speech, but [Sleezebag]'s son, Donald Jr., said Tuesday on CNN that the speech won't address every aspect of [Sleezebag]'s immigration policy but that the campaign would "continue to lay things out in the coming weeks and months."

But any distance [Sleezebag] takes from his proposal to deport all estimated 11 million undocumented immigrations via a "deportation force" would mark a major flip-flop on the very issue that drew many [Sleezebag] supporters to the billionaire's brazen outsider candidacy.

"They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. Some, I assume, are good people," [Sleezebag] said launching his candidacy last summer.

Within weeks, he was vowing to deport all undocumented immigrants.

"You're supposed to come in legally. I would get people out and I would have an expedited way of getting 'em back into the country so they can be legal," [Sleezebag] told CNN's Dana Bash in July. "We will find them, we will get them out."

But it's possible [Sleezebag] will glaze over the fate of the 11-plus million undocumented immigrants living in the US in his speech Wednesday despite hammering his bold plans to deport them all throughout the Republican primary -- a policy position that drew millions of Republican primary voters to his campaign and helped [Sleezebag] cast his opponents as weak, ineffective and tied to the failures of Washington.

While rarely raising his deportation plans, [Sleezebag] has consistently and vociferously pledged his commitment to building a border wall, leading his supporters in a boisterous call-and-response chant of "Who's going to pay for the wall?" to a resounding "Mexico!" That dialogue was, of course, noticeably absent from [Sleezebag]'s tête-a-tête with the Mexican president.

[Sleezebag]'s campaign surrogates in recent days have slammed the media for focusing on those 11 million people, instead touting [Sleezebag]'s commitment to first deporting undocumented immigrants who have committed crimes in the US and his plan to build a wall on the border with Mexico, and make that country pay for it.

And they have also rejected the notion that [Sleezebag] is softening his stance -- despite [Sleezebag] using that specific word last week.

"He wasn't softening on anything. He didn't change his stance on anything," Donald [Sleezebag], Jr. told Cooper on Monday, adding that [Sleezebag]'s policy on deportations has "been the same."

What Donald [Sleezebag] has said about Mexico and vice versa

Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry asserted Monday on Fox News that "Donald [Sleezebag]'s not softening his position on immigration."

"I think there's a lot of talking heads that try to get, you know, 'I'll grab a word here, I'll grab a word there.' Donald [Sleezebag] is going to secure that border," he said.

[Sleezebag]'s speech comes at a critical juncture for his candidacy, which has stared down deficits in every major national poll in the last month as well as in a slew of polls in key battleground states.

And in Arizona, a state Republican nominees carried in the last four presidential elections, [Sleezebag] is only maintaining a slight polling lead over Clinton.

Sen. John McCain, who is supporting [Sleezebag]'s bid but has also publicly warred with [Sleezebag], will not attend [Sleezebag]'s speech Wednesday, which comes a day after McCain won his Senate primary election.

"Senator McCain is spending a much-deserved day off with his wife, Cindy, at their home in Sedona," a McCain aide told CNN on Wednesday.

[Sleezebag] has sought to flip his fortunes by shaking up his campaign leadership -- ditching his campaign chairman Paul Manafort in favor of hiring a new campaign manager and chief executive -- and ramping up outreach to minority communities, notably African-Americans and Hispanics.

In doing so, [Sleezebag] has argued that those minorities have been the most affected by undocumented workers taking low-wage jobs and by the crime [Sleezebag] claims undocumented immigrants have contributed to society -- despite lacking the evidence to back up a connection between undocumented immigrants and higher crime rates.

Hispanic leaders and Republicans mindful of the party's need to draw in Hispanics to remain competitive in years to come have stressed the need for [Sleezebag] to move beyond his deportation policy proposal and begin addressing other ways to deal with the undocumented population.

Asked whether "building the wall or doing something with the 11 million here illegally" was more important, [Sleezebag]'s new campaign manager Kellyanne Conway didn't hesitate.

"It's absolutely building the wall," she said.


*****

Thoughts?






Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 01, 2016, 01:32:23 PM
I love how he can target his foot, even after putting it into armor plating...

You know, in some respects, he is worse than the Coyote when it comes to those cliffs....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 01, 2016, 05:32:38 PM
I love how he can target his foot, even after putting it into armor plating...

You know, in some respects, he is worse than the Coyote when it comes to those cliffs....

:D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 02, 2016, 06:55:41 AM
* Johnson is coming to my city for a rally Thursday, I just volunteered to help, so maybe I'll have something to share later.

I'll just try to cut and paste from my facebook -

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153314499999364/ (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153314499999364/)

Cousin- Did you watch? I thought he did well.

Rusty- Sort of. I went. They said they needed 10 volunteers 2 hours early to help set up. Everybody was making excuses. Well, the Packers did play tonight, that's probably why they had a problem, but also why they were able to rent the hall. So I offered. Then they needed 2 volunteers 4 hours early. That was a problem for those who lived in other parts of the city. I said sure. The hall has held presidential events before, so they were well set up. Other than carrying brass stands for velvet ropes, it was easy. Mostly checking doors with regard to traffic patterns. Most of the time I was at a table getting people to sign in for the database......

Cousin- were you able to listen to what he had to say?

Rusty- So while I was doing that it got suddenly quiet, and I heard somebody say "Thank You so much!" It was Gary and he gave me that goofy grin and shook my hand, I started laughing for joy. He moved on just shaking hands and greeting people in the que before they could ask for an autograph or a picture. When the event was actually held, they moved us from the tables to the rope between the press lounge and the stage for the speech. So I guess you saw it. Afterwards he shook hands and posed for pictures and signed autographs for half an hour. I got him to sign my copy of his book. Yes, I got to hear the whole speech, which was much his usual stump speech.

Rusty- I was just left with the impression that we don't deserve a president that's this good of a person.

****

I should clarify that last bit.

1) HE's honest, ethical, has successful qualifying government experience, and takes The Constitution seriously. I think every presidential candidate should meet those criteria, we deserve no less.

2) Part of that judgement/ opinion is based in part on my opinion that on the whole we get the government we deserve because most of us are too lazy/ignorant/apathetic to make an informed decision, or make a difference when we could by volunteering, donating, or running for office ourselves. The voter participation rate has room for improvement, too. I say "us" because I've voted sometimes knowing little more than party and incumbent. Now the internet makes it way easier for us to become informed.

3) The other part is based upon my meetings with various governors, cabinet officers and other prominent politicians, or people to become such later. Maybe it's because Gary was an entrepreneur rather than an attorney like most politicians.  He's genuinely seems like a decent guy. The only one close in my personal experience, was Tom Ridge, who like Gary, put himself through college by working construction.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 02, 2016, 03:40:01 PM
So did you get to ask him anything or was there anything that was asked that has been lightly covered over other things??
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 03, 2016, 02:32:10 AM
No.  There was a 1/2 hour stump speech, and a 1/2 hour of shaking hands and taking pics afterwards. 

Now, I was kinda busy at the time,  but he was in a lounge with the press doing interviews for about an hour before hand. I do know that he is big on punctuality ( he was born in a railroad town ), so he was probably on schedule, but I haven't read/ seen any of those interviews yet. I was busy today because I cleared my schedule yesterday.

He did have a few new anti [Sleezebag] comments with regard to what was said the night before. Like saying that [Sleezebag] will be on the wrong side of history, and that the Mexican president will go to the wall and say Ronald Regan's words.

I would dearly love the Johnson in the debates to see two things-

 1) Johnson, who had a mechanical construction contracting company in New Mexico discussing the impracticality of building The Wall of [Sleezebag]- the eminent domain, do we close off the Rio Grande, the Colorado, and another river that cross or marks the border? how do we get the water to make the concrete in the desert? How do we build it in the mountains? What about the environmental impact of interfering with migratory animals?

2) Johnson contrasting himself with Hillary by telling the story of how an unsolicited donor had called him, irate that his bill had been vetoed. Gary explained that the government isn't for sale, and he didn't operate that way. Did he want a refund? :D
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 04, 2016, 05:01:13 AM
If you're wondering why I haven't been contributing much to this thread lately, it's because I have a slow, freezing, crashing machine that either can't copy or can't finish a post. SO- More links and summarization, less copying.

* http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-reporters-press-227700 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-reporters-press-227700)
This one is called Hillary Clinton, Rarely Seen, Rarely Heard. It's about how she's been keeping the press distant. She hasn't held a press conference for 273 days.  If I were an editor, I would do a front page story about how Clinton has nothing to say, and [Sleezebag] has no respect for the press, so I'll be sending my people to cover Gary Johnson, where we will at least get stories with the expense reports.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 04, 2016, 05:28:55 AM
* The Richmond Times-Dispatch endorsed Gary Johnson. http://www.richmond.com/opinion/our-opinion/article_b79cc2b6-8ed5-532c-92eb-4a37e779c433.html (http://www.richmond.com/opinion/our-opinion/article_b79cc2b6-8ed5-532c-92eb-4a37e779c433.html)           A short excerpt-
 
"But our final decision to endorse the Johnson/Weld ticket, and to do so with great confidence and enthusiasm, came only after Johnson met with the editorial board last Monday morning. We found him to be knowledgeable but unscripted, reasonable and good-humored, self-assured but free from arrogance, willing and able to address every question, consistent in his beliefs without being dogmatic, even-tempered, curious — and in all respects optimistically, realistically presidential.

We have over the years interviewed hundreds of politicians — local, state, and national — and there’s no doubt that Johnson belongs in the major leagues, and on the debate stage this fall. He is a skilled and experienced leader, an able communicator, an intelligent man."

Well, it's nice for somebody else to validate my opinion of this man.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 04, 2016, 06:02:07 AM
* Then there's the matter of Taco trucks. [Sleezebag]'s Hispanic spokesperson, explaining the horrors of Mexican immigration said that his culture was very dominant, and it would mean taco trucks on every corner.   You can imagine that this is the popular slogan since a chicken in every pot, especially in rural areas without food trucks.  A related story-

-event-in-detroit]http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/03/492534979/taco-truck-owner-racks-up-sales-at-[Sleezebag]-event-in-detroit (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/03/492534979/taco-truck-owner-racks-up-sales-at-[Sleezebag)

I hope that the taco trucks continue to follow the [Sleezebag] campaign everywhere he goes.
Oh, and yeah, there were Hispanics at the Johnson rally I attended.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 04, 2016, 06:30:59 PM
Might be getting dirty/dusty inside.  Need to get a can of canned air, your vacume and open it, clean out good (as well as the fan blades) and check to be sure that your fans are working correctly...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 04, 2016, 10:43:27 PM
At this point I got nothin' to lose.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 05, 2016, 03:34:45 AM
*This is a Huffington post opinion piece. It is anti-Clinton rather than anti-[Sleezebag]. I chose it because
it sort of summarizes WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON WITH THE Clinton CAMPAIGN NEWS-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/hillary-needs-collective_b_11854308.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/hillary-needs-collective_b_11854308.html)

* Hillary has been doing well with fundraising in Hollywood, the  Hamptons and Martha's Vinyard. About as well/hour  as when she was fundraising on Wall Street.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 05, 2016, 05:34:27 PM
She actually asked former Republican Sec States to endorse her???  Did the Dem versions do as much???
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 05, 2016, 05:38:21 PM
You know, this e-mail BS just gets better and better...

Good for Powell to telling her that the whole thing was a very bad idea in the first place...  but she knows best, right...   Oy Vey...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 05, 2016, 10:12:03 PM
She actually asked former Republican Sec States to endorse her???  Did the Dem versions do as much???

There have been a lot of national security people endorsing her... but as for former Secretaries of State ... as best I can tell, only Madeleine Albright, 64th US Secretary of State (1997–2001) has endorsed her, and presumably herself.

Kerry has praised her as the first major party woman candidate, but praise is sort of a Secretary of State's stock in trade. He praised her for being a woman, and Kerry as a former Democratic presidential candidate and Hillary's successor at State you think he would be in a position to say a lot more about her if he were so inclined.  Many former Secretaries have praised her at one time.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 06, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
She actually asked former Republican Sec States to endorse her???  Did the Dem versions do as much???

There have been a lot of national security people endorsing her... but as for former Secretaries of State ... as best I can tell, only Madeleine Albright, 64th US Secretary of State (1997–2001) has endorsed her, and presumably herself.
Quote

Of course she did, being her hubby's SoS... 

Kerry has praised her as the first major party woman candidate, but praise is sort of a Secretary of State's stock in trade. He praised her for being a woman, and Kerry as a former Democratic presidential candidate and Hillary's successor at State you think he would be in a position to say a lot more about her if he were so inclined.  Many former Secretaries have praised her at one time.

Praise and Endorsement are two different things, I guess he isn't wanting to try to keep the job, if she is elected...

Which brings up a whole new area of questions, Whom are the three going to want for Staff and Cabinet positions, if elected?  Chief of Staff is usually (but not always) the Campaign Manager.  but whom are they looking at getting to take over Defense, State and Treasury, as those are the big three...  Well, might as well include Homeland, too...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 06, 2016, 09:21:22 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-lead-keeps-shrinking/?ex_cid=2016-forecast (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-lead-keeps-shrinking/?ex_cid=2016-forecast)

Sep 6, 2016 at 12:49 PM
Election Update: Clinton’s Lead Keeps Shrinking

10 questions as the stretch run begins.

I, for one, welcome the unofficial end of summer. I’ll miss the Olympics and fancy tomato salads. But it’s an election year, and Labor Day is usually accompanied by a return to more substantive news cycles — along with a significant increase in the amount of polling.

That was certainly true Tuesday morning, which brought a bevy of new data, including about a half-dozen new national polls and a 50-state poll from SurveyMonkey (conducted in conjunction with The Washington Post). People are focusing on the flashier results among these polls: that CNN’s poll shows Donald [Sleezebag] narrowly ahead among likely voters, for instance, while SurveyMonkey has Hillary Clinton tied with [Sleezebag] in Texas. At times like these, though, it’s especially useful to zoom out and take a more holistic approach.

The clearest pattern is simply that [Sleezebag] has regained ground since Clinton’s post-convention peak. He now has a 31 percent chance of winning the election according to our polls-only model, and a 33 percent chance according to polls-plus. For a deeper look, let’s run through our set of 10 framing questions about the election1 in light of the most recent polling:

1. Who’s ahead in the polls right now?

Clinton’s ahead, by a margin of about 3 percentage points in an average of national polls, or 4 points in our popular vote composite, which is based on both national polls and state polls. While the race has tightened, be wary of claims that the election is too close to call — that isn’t where the preponderance of the evidence lies, at least for the moment. If one candidate is ahead by 3 or 4 percentage points, there will be occasional polls showing a tied race or her opponent narrowly ahead, along with others showing the candidate with a mid- to high single-digit lead. We’ve seen multiple examples of both of those recently.

In swing states, the race ranges from showing [Sleezebag] up by 1 point in Iowa to a Clinton lead of about 6 points in her best states, such as Virginia. That’s a reasonably good position for Clinton, but it isn’t quite as safe as it might sound. That’s because the swing states tend to rise and fall together. A further shift of a few points in [Sleezebag]’s favor, or a polling error of that magnitude, would make the Electoral College highly competitive.

2. What’s the degree of uncertainty?

Higher than people might assume. Between the unusually early conventions and the late election — Nov. 8 is the latest possible date on which Election Day can occur — it’s a long campaign this year. But just as important, many voters — close to 20 percent — either say they’re undecided or that they plan to vote for third-party candidates. At a comparable point four years ago, only 5 to 10 percent of voters fell into those categories.

High numbers of undecided and third-party voters are associated with higher volatility and larger polling errors. Put another way, elections are harder to predict when fewer people have made up their minds. Because FiveThirtyEight’s models account for this property, we show a relatively wide range of possible outcomes, giving [Sleezebag] better odds of winning than most other statistically based models, but also a significant chance of a Clinton landslide if those undecideds break in her favor.

3. What’s the short-term trend in the polls?

It’s been toward [Sleezebag] over the past few weeks. Clinton’s lead peaked at about 8.5 percentage points in early August, according to our models, and [Sleezebag] has since sliced that figure roughly in half. Of [Sleezebag]’s roughly 4-point gain since then, about 2 points come from [Sleezebag]’s having gained ground, while the other 2 points come from Clinton’s having lost ground — possibly a sign that her lofty numbers in early August were inflated by a convention bounce.

One slight caveat: If you’re talking about the very short term, it’s not quite as clear who’s gaining, as the most recent daily and weekly tracking polls have been flat lately instead of showing continued gains for [Sleezebag]. By late this week, we should have a better sense of whether [Sleezebag]’s position is still improving.

4. What’s the medium-term trend in the polls?

It depends on where you measure it from. Clinton had a lead of 6 to 7 percentage points when we launched our forecast in June. That dwindled to about 3 percentage points just before the conventions got underway, and then a tie once [Sleezebag] got a modest bounce after the Republican convention. Clinton then got a comparatively large bounce after her convention, bringing her lead to about 8 points, but it’s receded some. Overall, her current lead of 4 percentage points is close to or slightly below where the race has been on average throughout the campaign.

5. Which states shape up as most important?

It’s still early enough — and we’re lacking recent, high-quality polling in enough states — that I’d discourage you from fixating on any one exact combination of states that Clinton or [Sleezebag] might win to clinch the Electoral College. Instead, you might think of this election as a battle between the Big Ten states and the ACC states, either of which offer a plausible path to victory for Clinton. If she holds on to most of the Big Ten states that President Obama won four years ago, such as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, she can afford to lose ACC states such as Florida, Virginia and North Carolina. If she can win either Florida or both Virginia and North Carolina — and certainly if she sweeps all three ACC states — she can sacrifice quite a bit of ground in the Big Ten. The handful of competitive states outside of these groups, such as Nevada and New Hampshire, have few enough electoral votes that they’ll serve as tiebreakers only in the event of an extremely close race.

According to our tipping-point index, however, the single most important state is Florida. That’s because its 29 electoral votes are as much as many combinations of two and three swing states put together.

6. Does one candidate appear to have an overall edge in the Electoral College, relative to his or her position in the popular vote?

Our models, somewhat in contrast to the conventional wisdom, have usually found that [Sleezebag] is more likely to win the Electoral College while losing the popular vote than the other way around. Some of this is for a quirky reason: [Sleezebag] is underperforming recent Republican nominees in polls of deeply red states. Last week, for instance, there were new polls of Kansas and Alaska that showed [Sleezebag] winning by 7 points and 10 points, respectively. By comparison, Mitt Romney won Kansas by 22 points and Alaska by 14. Losing states like those by 10 points instead of 20 would yield a better popular vote margin for Clinton, but wouldn’t help in the Electoral College.

The SurveyMonkey poll showing a tied race in Texas is in line with this theme. The race probably isn’t really tied there, as other recent polls in Texas have [Sleezebag] ahead. But a close call — Clinton losing Texas by only 5 percentage points — could yield wasted votes for Clinton in terms of their impact on the Electoral College. It’s plausible that Clinton gains among Hispanic voters are contributing to this pattern, since most Hispanics are not concentrated in swing states. (Almost half the Hispanic population is in Texas or California alone.)

7. How do the “fundamentals” look?

Some “fundamentals”-based models, which look at economic data and other nonpolling factors to forecast the election, suggest that a generic Republican candidate should be a slight favorite over a generic Democrat in this election. Our polls-plus model also contains a fundamentals model based on an economic index, and it slightly disagrees, finding that the economy is about average or, based on more recent data, very slightly above average — conveying just the slightest re-election edge to Democrats.

This is literally something of an academic debate, however. Overall, the fundamentals imply that the election ought to be close. If Clinton or [Sleezebag] win by a significant margin, it probably has more to do with the peculiarities of the candidates than the underlying conditions of the race.

8. How do FiveThirtyEight’s forecasts compare against prediction markets?

[Sleezebag]’s chances are currently about 30 percent in betting markets, a close match for FiveThirtyEight’s forecasts.

9. What would keep me up late at night if I were Clinton?

My first question would be whether the race has settled into a 4-point Clinton lead, as the polls have it now, or is continuing to trend toward [Sleezebag]. If I’m still ahead by 4 points or more at the time of the first debate on Sept. 26, I’ll feel reasonably good about my position: A [Sleezebag] comeback would be toward the outer edges of how much trailing candidates have historically been able to move the polls with the debates. If the race gets much closer, though, my list of concerns gets a lot longer. It would include geopolitical events that could work in [Sleezebag]’s favor, third-party candidates who seem to be taking more votes from me than from [Sleezebag], and the tendency for incumbent candidates (since Clinton is a quasi-incumbent) to lose ground in the polls after the first debate.

10. What would keep me up late at night if I were [Sleezebag]?

As the polls have ebbed and flowed, I’ve been 8 or 10 points behind Clinton at my worst moments, but only tied with her at my best moments. I’ve also never gotten much above 40 percent in national polls, at least not on a consistent basis, and I’ve alienated a lot of voters who would allow me to climb higher than that. In other words, maybe that dreaded [Sleezebag] ceiling is there after all, in which case I’ll have to get awfully lucky to win the election, probably needing both a favorable flow of news in the weeks leading up to Nov. 8 and a large third-party vote that works against Clinton.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 06, 2016, 09:41:48 PM
Which brings up a whole new area of questions, Whom are the three going to want for Staff and Cabinet positions, if elected?  Chief of Staff is usually (but not always) the Campaign Manager.  but whom are they looking at getting to take over Defense, State and Treasury, as those are the big three...  Well, might as well include Homeland, too...

I suspect that should Hillary win, some of Obama's cabinet will stay on if they want to. The Sec. of Ag was supposed to be on her VP shortlist. If Hillary or [Sleezebag] win expect them to pass over Senators for cabinet positions. They'll  need every Senator they've got to pass things in Congress.
I assume Chris Christie will get a position somewhere. I've read that [Sleezebag] likes him, but Ivanka's husband doesn't. I've read transition team.

Johnson and Weld have said that Mitt Romney would make an excellent Secretary of State. At the moment, a 12th Amendment scenario seems Johnson's most viable path. That means that Weld would not be Vice President ( most likely Mike Pence would be.) , but would be free to serve as Chief of Staff, National Security Advisor, Chief advisor, etc.  They have said that they haven't asked anybody yet, as it would be presumptuous.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 07, 2016, 06:55:41 AM
GLEANINGS-

* I have more doubts about Hilary's health. In part because the campaign and the media  are attacking those who raise questions about her health, rather than explain them away. It's not like NBC is such a hard-hitting Clinton critic. I'll refrain from repeating some stuff until there's conformation, but it fits the Parkinson's theory. Regardless, something's not right.

* Polls. Lots of stuff coming out after the holiday. Basically the race is tightening up. I doubt Gary will make the first debate by the criteria. The designated polls aren't being done, although he's rising in some other ones. One designated poll did come out, and it had him slipping to 7%. Thing is, they really undersampled Millenials, so much so that they won't say, only that the margin of error there is 8-8.5%.  Gary is also leading among active duty military and their families.

* [Sleezebag]'s criticisms of Hillary's pay to play approach, and the Clinton foundation are coming back to bite him, now that journalists have set out to prove that he is just as bad.

* 88 retired admirals and generals endorse [Sleezebag]. While that may sound impressive, 500 of them took out a full page ad to endorse Romney.

* The Dallas newspaper has rejected [Sleezebag] as unqualified. A  Johnson endorsement may follow.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 07, 2016, 02:58:54 PM
Crap... early voting starts shortly after the VP debate, so they need to be in the first debate or we might as well get ready to have [Sleezebag] as pres...  f#c&
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2016, 03:48:59 AM
Tonight was NBC's Commander-In-Chief debate.

Active duty military dislikes Hillary and [Sleezebag] even more than the general population. They wanted Gary Johnson included ( he is their favorite in the polls), but NBC was against it, according to the Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran's Association.

Do they like Gary because he wants to end regime change and focus on defending America?
Do they loathe Clinton because they would be dishonorably discharged at best if they handled classified info as she did?
Do they despise [Sleezebag] because he would order them to commit war crimes?

Maybe some of each.

The Good news- Hillary seemed healthy, and she didn't spike my blood pressure. The Bad- she continued to insist that she never sent or received classified info on a private device, in direct conflict with the FBI's findings. I can't believe much of anything she says anymore.

The Good News- Uh...he may have been sincere sometimes, like when he was talking about how he knew more than Obama's generals.  The BAD- I think he'd be out of his depth in the White House.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2016, 04:44:37 AM
Meanwhile in the Johnson campaign-

* The Dallas paper endorsed Hillary

* Mitt Romney called for Johnson and Weld to be in the debates.

The campaign released an analysis of recent polls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JlBByr0ISg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JlBByr0ISg)


Rising: A Look at the Polls
 Sep 5, 2016 

A representative democracy requires a competition of ideas. Let's have one.

The Commission on the Presidential Debates (CPD), a tax-exempt nonprofit partnership between the Democratic and Republican parties, has selected 5 polls to determine who gets to participate in the all-important presidential debates. Under the commission's selected criteria, unless a candidate is the nominee of the Republican or Democratic party, he or she must receive a 15% average among the polls conducted by ABC-Washington Post, CBS-New York Times, CNN-Opinion Research Corporation, Fox News, and NBC-Wall Street Journal.



According to the CPD, these pollsters were chosen for their reliability, sample sizes, the soundness of survey method, and their reputation and longevity. This selection criteria fails to consider other real-world realities such as the universal consensus that traditional polling has become increasingly unreliable and that getting to 15% without significant media attention is nearly impossible.

Yet, despite this unfair reality, we are climbing toward that arbitrary number.

It is also important to consider that the CPD does not articulate standards that the private pollsters must follow. The CPD, most simply, relies on these organizations to adopt their own methodologies.

To date, some of the CPD polls are rather suspect.

The recent CPD poll conducted by CNN, for example, has Gary Johnson at 9%, but includes "too small a share of the national population" for voters under 34 years of age to even produce crosstabs. Hard to believe that no one under the age of 34 is going to vote this election. And given that Gary Johnson is in first place with young voters, the CNN poll should be considered in that context. Further, the pollsters didn't even offer Gary Johnson as an option until after they had already asked voters to decide between Hillary and [Sleezebag].

And the latest Fox News poll also inaccurately suggests that our poll numbers have dropped to 9% overall. What is not included in the headlines is that the Fox News poll only included 17% independent voters. However, according to most polls, approximately 4 in 10 voters are independent. And given that 62% of Gary Johnson supporters are independents, the Fox polls should be considered within that context.

Notably, the Washington Post found our ticket at 10% or higher in 42 states, and at 15% or higher in 15 states.

The truth is, 62% of America wants Gary Johnson in the presidential debates. Rigged, unfair, or just downright unreliable is not the issue. America deserves better than a choice between two highly unpopular options.

Enough speculation, here are some real objective numbers:
◦-Our campaign received over 150,000 small donations in the last 6 weeks.
◦-We raised over $5 million online last month.
◦-More than 750,000 people have signed our #LetGaryDebate petition.
◦-We reached more than 40 million people on Facebook last week alone.

Watch the polls closely, but don't take them at face value. When people hear our positive message, they join us.

A representative democracy requires a competition of ideas. Let's have one. You In?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 08, 2016, 06:36:17 AM
You go Mitt!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 08, 2016, 11:41:20 PM
-s-body-language-claim-doesn-n644856]http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/u-s-official-donald-[Sleezebag]-s-body-language-claim-doesn-n644856 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/u-s-official-donald-[Sleezebag)

Politics
 Sep 8 2016, 11:37 am ET
 
What Really Happened at Donald [Sleezebag]'s Intelligence Briefing

by Ken Dilanian, Robert Windrem and William Arkin

As U.S. officials cast doubt on Donald [Sleezebag]'s claim he read the "body language" of intelligence officials at a recent briefing, NBC News has learned exclusive details of what unfolded in the room — and of reported tension between one of [Sleezebag]'s advisers and the briefers.

Six current and former senior officials said they were aware of friction between retired Gen. Michael Flynn, one of the advisers [Sleezebag] brought to the briefing, and the officials who conducted the briefing. Four sources with knowledge of the briefing — including two intelligence officials who spoke to people in the room — said Flynn repeatedly interrupted the briefers until New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie intervened.

Both Christie and Flynn denied the officials' version of events, with Flynn calling the report "total b__s___" and Christie calling it "a complete work of fiction."

The Aug. 17 briefing is attracting fresh scrutiny after [Sleezebag] said at NBC's Commander-in-Chief Forum that he divined that intelligence officials were "not happy" with President Obama.

"What I did learn," [Sleezebag] said, "is that our leadership, Barack Obama, did not follow ... what our experts said to do ... And I was very, very surprised.

"I could tell — I'm pretty good with body language — I could tell they were not happy."

Related: Clinton Slams [Sleezebag] But She Blabbed About Briefing, Too

Timothy Barrett, a spokesman for the Director of National Intelligence, declined to comment Thursday on [Sleezebag]'s characterization.

However, a U.S. official pointed out that intelligence officers don't give policy advice, so it would be inaccurate to say that Obama failed to follow the advice of the intelligence community. A second U.S. official said analysts are trained not to allow their body language to betray their thinking.

Meanwhile, four people with knowledge of the matter told NBC News that one of the advisers [Sleezebag] brought to the briefing, retired general Mike Flynn, repeatedly interrupted the briefing with pointed questions.

Two sources said Christie, the New Jersey governor and [Sleezebag] adviser, verbally restrained Flynn -- one saying Christie told Flynn to shut up, the other reporting he said, "Calm down." Two other sources said Christie touched Flynn's arm in an effort get him to calm down and let the officials continue.

Christie denied that he had silenced or restrained Flynn. "The comments and actions attributed to me in this story about General Flynn are categorically untrue. I did not make the statements alleged nor did I touch General Flynn's arm for any reason during the briefing. The report is a complete work of fiction."

Flynn told NBC News the report was "total b__s___" and added, "These are anonymous sources. They're lying."

In an interview on TODAY, Flynn was asked whether he saw what [Sleezebag] claims he did at the briefing.

"I sure did...in a very specific way," Flynn said, though he went on to say that his conclusion was based not on body language but on intelligence officials drawing distinctions between the content of their briefing and White House policy.

The intelligence briefing is given to the presidential nominee from each party.

There were fewer than 10 people in the room at [Sleezebag]'s briefing, and all the briefers were career intelligence officials, including both military officers and civilians, U.S. officials told NBC News. A former senior intelligence official said the briefing team is always the same for both presidential candidates. None were political appointees, and none were among the team that briefs President Obama daily. The names of the briefers have not been made public.

The briefing was conducted at the "secret" level of classification, and it did not cover sources and methods or covert operations.
Current and former U.S. intelligence officials who asked that their names not be disclosed told NBC News that many members of the current intelligence community -- leadership rank and file -- were angered by [Sleezebag]'s comments Wednesday night, and the possibility that he may have disclosed details of his intelligence briefing or attempted to politicize it.

Former CIA and NSA director Mike Hayden, who opposes [Sleezebag], told NBC News that in almost four decades in intelligence "I have never seen anything like this before."

"A political candidate has used professional intelligence officers briefing him in a totally non-political setting as props to buttress an argument for his political campaign," said Hayden. "And his political point was actually imputed to them, not even something they allegedly said. The `I can read body language' line was quite remarkable. ... I am confident Director Clapper sent senior professionals to this meeting and so I am equally confident that no such body language ever existed. It's simply not what we do."

Michael Morell, a former acting CIA director who was President George W. Bush's briefer and is now a Hillary Clinton supporter, said [Sleezebag]'s comments about his briefing were extraordinary.

"This is the first time that I can remember a candidate for president doing a readout from an intelligence briefing, and it's the first time a candidate has politicized their intelligence briefing. Both of those are highly inappropriate and crossed a long standing red line respected by both parties," he said.

"To me this is just the most recent example that underscores that this guy is unfit to be commander in chief," Morell continued.

"His comments show that he's got no understanding of how intelligence works. Intelligence officers do not make policy recommendations. It's not their job and anyone running for president should know that. The people who briefed him, I'm pretty sure were career analysts — senior intel professionals. There is no way that they would in any way signal displeasure with the policies of the president."

That said, intelligence officials have asserted they warned the administration repeatedly about the rise of ISIS in Iraq and Syria well before Obama ordered a bombing campaign. And as NBC News has reported, senior intelligence officials in 2012 proposed a covert operation to oust Bashar Assad in Syria, but Obama decided not to move forward with it.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 09, 2016, 12:33:08 AM
Somebody wake me up from this nightmare!!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 09, 2016, 12:44:47 AM
Today's news from the Johnson campaign was problematic.

Rather than try to untwist the spin, here are Gary's own words from a clip-

 http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gary+johnson+aleppo+youtube&view=detail&mid=3B5C30066AFF1587F33F3B5C30066AFF1587F33F&FORM=VIRE (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=gary+johnson+aleppo+youtube&view=detail&mid=3B5C30066AFF1587F33F3B5C30066AFF1587F33F&FORM=VIRE)

and from his facebook page.-

This morning, I began my day by setting aside any doubt that I’m human. Yes, I understand the dynamics of the Syrian conflict -- I talk about them every day. But hit with “What about Aleppo?”, I immediately was thinking about an acronym, not the Syrian conflict. I blanked. It happens, and it will happen again during the course of this campaign.

Can I name every city in Syria? No. Should I have identified Aleppo? Yes. Do I understand its significance? Yes.

As Governor, there were many things I didn’t know off the top of my head. But I succeeded by surrounding myself with the right people, getting to the bottom of important issues, and making principled decisions. It worked. That is what a President must do.

That would begin, clearly, with daily security briefings that, to me, will be fundamental to the job of being President


_________________

If nothing else, he finally made the nightly news as a presidential candidate.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 09, 2016, 05:48:36 AM
/]http://time.com/4480945/isis-donald-[Sleezebag]/ (http://time.com/4480945/isis-donald-[Sleezebag)

Ideas National Security

Why ISIS Supports Donald [Sleezebag]
Matt Olsen
  Sept. 7, 2016 Updated: Sept. 8, 2016 9:31 AM ET

Matt Olsen is the former head of the National Counterterrorism Center

'Hillary Clinton is the clear choice for national security'

Hillary Clinton and Donald [Sleezebag] took the same stage for the first time on Wednesday to address crucial questions about national security and combatting terrorism in a “Commander-in-Chief Forum” on NBC. Voters tuned in to evaluate which candidate has the temperament, experience and vision to be America’s next Commander-in-Chief.

But they weren’t the only ones who were watching. In recent months, ISIS has made clear that it’s closely following this election, too—and it has chosen a candidate. Interviews with ISIS members and analysis of social media, including in a recent Foreign Affairs article by Mara Revkin and Ahmad Mhidi, make it clear: “ISIS is rooting for [Sleezebag].”

This year, ISIS isn’t simply a passive observer of American politics. Since the group’s rapid rise in 2014, ISIS has established a far-reaching, sophisticated propaganda machine. Its members rely on social media to shape public opinion, recruit new members and mobilize followers to carry out attacks. Now, some of them are using those channels to advocate for [Sleezebag]. In August, one ISIS spokesman wrote: “I ask Allah to deliver America to [Sleezebag].” Another supporter declared: “The ‘facilitation’ of [Sleezebag]’s arrival in the White House must be a priority for jihadists at any cost!!!” ISIS is working to drum up support for the candidate it has called “the perfect enemy.”

That may come as a surprise to some. After all, [Sleezebag] has spent this election season making a series of combative and bellicose comments on terrorism—from his pledge to kill the families of terrorists, his plans bring back torture of suspected terrorists and his call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States. But the truth is, [Sleezebag]’s statements and extreme policies aren’t just contrary to our values—they play right into the hands of ISIS.

[Sleezebag]’s anti-Muslim proposals are likely to inspire and radicalize more violent jihadists in the U.S. and Europe. Specifically, his calls for a ban on Muslims visiting our country and for blanket spying on mosques reinforce ISIS’s view that the U.S. is hostile to all Muslims. As a former ISIS fighter told Revkin and Mhidi: “When [Sleezebag] says hateful things about Muslims, it proves that jihadists are right to fight against the West, because the West is against Islam.” As a result, his ideas fuel the group’s efforts to radicalize and mobilize its followers to take action. In fact, [Sleezebag] himself has been featured in ISIS propaganda videos following the Brussels attack and the Orlando massacre.

[Sleezebag]’s statements also serve to isolate and alienate the same Muslim Americans who must be our partners in this fight. They’re often on the front lines against ISIS in its effort to radicalize those who are disaffected or otherwise susceptible to its hateful message. And they are in the best position to recognize the signs of radicalization and to intervene before it’s too late. Marginalizing these Americans sows distrust of the government and law enforcement, and makes it more difficult to identify and disrupt attacks. Terrorist groups around the world are eager to capitalize on this opportunity: the al-Qaeda group in East Africa released a video quoting [Sleezebag] to convince American Muslims to join the group because they are not welcome in their own country.

Further, [Sleezebag]’s comments undermine our counterterrorism efforts around the world. By demonizing Muslims, he feeds ISIS’s narrative that the U.S. is at war with Islam. As one ISIS defector interviewed by Revkin and Mhidi said: “We were happy when [Sleezebag] said bad things about Muslims because he makes it very clear that there are two teams in this battle: the Islamic team and the anti-Islamic team.” He also risks alienating our allies in the Middle East and North Africa. These nations are our essential partners in the fight against terrorism, and we depend on the cooperation of their military, intelligence and law enforcement services. [Sleezebag] does not seem to grasp the importance of working with our allies to combat terrorism. This is not a threat we can defeat alone—and his comments disparaging our allies, and threats to walk away from them, undermine our efforts to build and foster these critical partnerships.

The bottom line is this: [Sleezebag]’s erratic and belligerent slogans are no substitute for policies based on facts and sound judgment.

That’s why, in my view, Hillary Clinton is the clear choice for national security. In contrast to [Sleezebag], Clinton has drawn on her years of experience to set out a pragmatic and detailed strategy to defeat ISIS. She has identified specific steps the United States should take both overseas and at home. Clinton rejects politics of fear and divisiveness and calls on Americans to stand resolutely together and to build alliances abroad in this struggle. Fundamentally, she recognizes that American values of freedom, tolerance and the rule of law are strengths—not vulnerabilities—in the fight against terrorism.

As Americans consider who should be our next Commander-in-Chief, they’ll face perhaps the starkest contrast in generations—between a candidate whose uninformed and reckless statements on ISIS have already helped our adversaries, and a candidate whose approach reflects her deep experience, determined leadership and unbending belief in the power of American values. The results will have a sweeping impact on our security—and the world will be watching.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 09, 2016, 06:29:48 AM
GLEANINGS-

* Hillary did hold a press conference at long last. It was on the runway in front of her plane, so I assume it was only the reporters who travel with her. Mostly she read a long statement about [Sleezebag], national security and last night's town hall. There were no questions about her health, the Clinton Foundation, e-mails, or campaign finance.

* Jill Stein and her VP are wanted for graffiti/vandalism in connection with the Dakota pipeline protest.

* Evan McMullen has challenged Johnson and Stein to an undercard debate. He is only concentrating on winning Utah and Minnesota, and has only succeeded in getting on 10 state ballots so far.

* Johnson is on every ballot now, except Rhode Island, which seems to be slow processing the paperwork.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 10, 2016, 01:52:16 AM
Yesterday The nightly news was making Gary Johnson look kinda stupid.

Tonight, with the news of a Syrian cease-fire and a North Korean nuclear test Gary's looking like a foreign policy genius to me, but I'm informed with regard to Gary Johnson, and the nightly network news has been ignoring him.

Here's the background information-

*NORTH KOREA- An article at reason.com http://reason.com/.../libertarian-gary-johnson-clarifies... (http://reason.com/.../libertarian-gary-johnson-clarifies...) on June 3rd elaborated on a position Gary took at the 2016 Libertarian Convention. on Memorial Day weekend - ""The greatest threat in the world is North Korea," he said at the debate. "At some point Kim will have intercontinental ballistic missiles that work. How about engaging China" to say "let's do something about North Korea, let's do something about Kim, unify the Koreas and be able to withdraw the 40,000 troops in South Korea." What he really meant, Johnson said, was "we need to ally with China, they recognize how rogue North Korea is" and convince them via diplomacy and negotiation to realize "it is in their best interest to" deal with their own regional threat on their own. "It was a message of persuading China through diplomacy to deal with what is a regional crisis."

As USA today said today, China won't halt North Korea's nuclear program until it becomes a top priority for the USA.

*SYRIA- In yesterday's Morning Joe interview Gary's answer to the problem included this-

JOHNSON: Well, with regard to Syria, I do think that it’s a mess. I think that the only way that we deal with Syria is to join hands with Russia to diplomatically bring that at an end. But when we’ve aligned ourselves with — when we’ve supported the opposition of the Free Syrian Army — the Free Syrian Army is also coupled with the Islamists.

And then the fact that we’re also supporting the Kurds and this is — it’s just — it’s just a mess. And that this is the result of regime change that we end up supporting. And, inevitably, these regime changes have led a less-safe world.

GEIST: So alliance with Russia is the solution to Syria. Do you think Vladimir Putin and Russia are good and a reliable partner?

JOHNSON: Well, I think diplomatically that that is the — that that has to be the solution, is joining hands with Russia to bring — to bring this civil war to an end.

The CNN Headline from minutes ago-"Kerry announces US-Russia deal on Syrian ceasefire"
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 10, 2016, 04:45:47 AM
FOX and CNN were carrying a [Sleezebag] speech today while I was running errands. He was championing "Religious Liberty" to a very receptive audience. Now when Ted Cruz uses the term, it seems to be a "dog whistle" for Christian Supremacy and America as a Christian Nation, rather than a "all creeds are equal under the law" approach. When Libertarians ask Gary Johnson about "Religious Liberty" it's about being able to discriminate against all heathens & heretics in their places of business.

 I don't know what [Sleezebag] is implying, or if he is simply saying it to play to the audience without caring what it means o them, but I think it's a hard position to square with [Sleezebag]'s convention stance of speaking up for "LGBTQ people"

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 10, 2016, 06:58:10 AM
-ballot-227954]http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/minnesota-democrats-no-[Sleezebag]-ballot-227954 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/minnesota-democrats-no-[Sleezebag)

Minnesota Democrats move to kick [Sleezebag] off ballot
By Daniel Strauss
09/09/16 12:33 PM EDT

Minnesota Democrats are taking steps to kick Donald [Sleezebag] off the state's ballot, arguing that the Minnesota Republican Party improperly put [Sleezebag]'s name on there.

Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party Chairman Ken Martin filed a legal petition with the state Supreme Court looking to remove [Sleezebag] from the ballot.

"The Minnesota GOP did not elect to elect alternate presidential electors at the state convention earlier this year. After being notified that they had failed to provide the names of alternative electors by the Secretary of State’s office, Republicans decided to appoint alternate electors in a closed-door meeting rather than electing them. This is violation of state law,"

Minnesota DFL's statement reads.

The move follows a minor kerfuffle in August when [Sleezebag] and running mate Indiana Gov. Mike Pence's name were initially absent from the state ballot. The Minnesota Republican Party scrambled to provide the state secretary of state's office the necessary paperwork, and it seemed the situation was resolved when [Sleezebag]'s name was officially listed online.

However, Michael Brodkorb, a former deputy Minnesota Republican Party chairman, pointed out on Twitter that the Minnesota GOP's rules don't allow for such a fix, as the DFL's suit also argues.

"Last night #MNGOP 'appointed' alternate electors to fix problem - BUT this isn't allowed in #MNGOP constitution - so we have a mess," Brodkorb tweeted.


*************************************

Rhode Island has approved the paperwork! Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The Libertarians could be on more state ballots than the Republicans for the first time in history.
Also, they would have more legitimacy to be in the debates than the Republicans...





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 10, 2016, 05:41:41 PM
NBC, if not actively pro Clinton, is definately Anti-[Sleezebag] with the mindset that She is the only thing that can beat him and thereby, Johnson will only keep her from stopping him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 10, 2016, 05:47:55 PM
FOX and CNN were carrying a T rump speech today while I was running errands. He was championing "Religious Liberty" to a very receptive audience. Now when Ted Cruz uses the term, it seems to be a "dog whistle" for Christian Supremacy and America as a Christian Nation, rather than a "all creeds are equal under the law" approach. When Libertarians ask Gary Johnson about "Religious Liberty" it's about being able to discriminate against all heathens & heretics in their places of business.

 I don't know what T rump is implying, or if he is simply saying it to play to the audience without caring what it means o them, but I think it's a hard position to square with T rump's convention stance of speaking up for "LGBTQ people"

Part of this post was quoting (or atleast paraphrased) [Sleezebag]'s speech, right?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 10, 2016, 05:53:35 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/minnesota-democrats-no-T rump-ballot-227954 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/minnesota-democrats-no-T rump-ballot-227954)

Minnesota Democrats move to kick T rump off ballot
By Daniel Strauss
09/09/16 12:33 PM EDT

Minnesota Democrats are taking steps to kick Donald T rump off the state's ballot, arguing that the Minnesota Republican Party improperly put T rump's name on there.

Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party Chairman Ken Martin filed a legal petition with the state Supreme Court looking to remove T rump from the ballot.

"The Minnesota GOP did not elect to elect alternate presidential electors at the state convention earlier this year. After being notified that they had failed to provide the names of alternative electors by the Secretary of State’s office, Republicans decided to appoint alternate electors in a closed-door meeting rather than electing them. This is violation of state law,"

Minnesota DFL's statement reads.

The move follows a minor kerfuffle in August when T rump and running mate Indiana Gov. Mike Pence's name were initially absent from the state ballot. The Minnesota Republican Party scrambled to provide the state secretary of state's office the necessary paperwork, and it seemed the situation was resolved when T rump's name was officially listed online.

However, Michael Brodkorb, a former deputy Minnesota Republican Party chairman, pointed out on Twitter that the Minnesota GOP's rules don't allow for such a fix, as the DFL's suit also argues.

"Last night #MNGOP 'appointed' alternate electors to fix problem - BUT this isn't allowed in #MNGOP constitution - so we have a mess," Brodkorb tweeted.


*************************************

Rhode Island has approved the paperwork! Gary Johnson is on the ballot in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The Libertarians could be on more state ballots than the Republicans for the first time in history.
Also, they would have more legitimacy to be in the debates than the Republicans...


The cracks are really showing now...  come on, get Gary into the debates (as well as getting the same classified read in's as the others)...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 10, 2016, 07:05:13 PM
FOX and CNN were carrying a T rump speech today while I was running errands. He was championing "Religious Liberty" to a very receptive audience. Now when Ted Cruz uses the term, it seems to be a "dog whistle" for Christian Supremacy and America as a Christian Nation, rather than a "all creeds are equal under the law" approach. When Libertarians ask Gary Johnson about "Religious Liberty" it's about being able to discriminate against all heathens & heretics in their places of business.

 I don't know what T rump is implying, or if he is simply saying it to play to the audience without caring what it means o them, but I think it's a hard position to square with T rump's convention stance of speaking up for "LGBTQ people"

Part of this post was quoting (or atleast paraphrased) T rump's speech, right?

No, mostly commentary, except for "Religious Liberty" and "LGBTQ people"



Trust me, the cracks aren't showing! I have the best people. THE BEST! They are geniuses, and they do AN AMAZING job. AMAZING! Fabulous, really. I'll fire the [intercourse gerund] idiots responsible, Believe me!   - Now that's a paraphrase...except I haven't noticed any public comments by him on this particular issue .
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 10, 2016, 07:22:04 PM
Yet....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on September 12, 2016, 08:55:55 PM
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-has-pneumonia-doctor-says-228012 (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-has-pneumonia-doctor-says-228012)

Quote
NEW YORK — Hillary Clinton’s campaign is coming under fire for failing to disclose that she was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday, and for saying she simply got “overheated” at the 9/11 memorial service in New York, when video showed her knees buckling as aides helped her into a waiting van.

It wasn’t until shortly after 11:00 a.m. ET Sunday that the campaign put out a terse statement saying that Clinton had “departed to go to her daughter's apartment, and is feeling much better.” There was no explicit acknowledgment that Clinton had left the ceremony earlier than planned, nor any mention of what looked to be a fainting spell.

Clinton herself sought to project that all was well, stepping outside of her Chelsea’s apartment some 45 minutes later. "I'm feeling great, it's a beautiful day in New York," she said, taking a moment to greet a small girl before piling back into the van to head home to Westchester County.

Not until 5:15 p.m. did the campaign revealed that she had in fact been diagnosed with pneumonia and put on antibiotics a day earlier, after what her doctor called a “follow-up evaluation of her prolonged cough.”

Lisa Bardack, Clinton’s physician, said that she had indeed become “overheated and dehydrated” on Sunday morning, but made no mention of her apparent collapse. “I have just examined her and she is now re-hydrated and recovering nicely,” Bardack said. Sunday’s examination, an aide said, took place at Clinton’s home in Chappaqua, New York.

At 10:16 p.m., the campaign said that "Clinton will not be traveling to California tomorrow or Tuesday." Clinton was scheduled to raise cash in both Los Angeles and San Francisco, and her campaign had previewed that she would also deliver a speech on the economy Tuesday. Clinton's Wednesday trip to Las Vegas is, for now, still on her schedule.

Around midnight, however, fundraisers who were planning to attend Clinton's San Francisco event on Monday received an email saying the event is still on, but that Clinton would now appear via teleconference.

Frustration with the Clinton campaign’s handling of the incident boiled over among political journalists on Twitter.

Jonathan Martin, national correspondent for the New York Times, tweeted, “Hillary camp now reveals that her doctor diagnosed her pneumonia on Friday & put her on antibiotics. Only disclosed after this am's episode.”

“I don't understand why Clinton aides weren't telling reporters at 10:30am: ‘pneumonia,’” CNN media reporter Brian Stelter wrote.

“Of course they should have disclosed this. This isn't a cold,” added Chuck Todd, the host of NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

The campaign ignored requests for explanation, but its allies defended its actions online.

“#Hillary's health is fine. The hysteria in the media and the attacks about it from #T rump supporters are not,” Democratic PR consultant Hilary Rosen tweeted before Clinton’s pneumonia was disclosed.

“Is there really a tradition of candidates publicly disclosing illnesses like colds, flu's etc?” tweeted former White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer. “Every candidate I have ever worked for has gotten sick on the trail and worked through it because you can't take days off in a close race.”

“{S}o which illnesses that are treated with antibiotics do you have to disclose? All?” former White House chief speechwriter Jon Favreau asked.

“From a medical point of view this is not a big deal, She needs to cancel some events or do them by Skype for a week,” observed former Vermont governor Howard Dean, a trained doctor.

“I think I coughed up a lung somewhere between Pennsylvania and Kentucky,” recalled former Clinton ‘08 staffer Mo Elleithee, who also lauded her stamina. “She kept a campaign schedule with pneumonia. When I have a normal cold, I curl up in the fetal position & want to stay in bed for a week.”

Former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm tweeted: "To press lamenting @HillaryClinton's health/transparency: 'powering through' illness is what women do: Stoically, every. single. day."

Clinton’s campaign schedule has been vigorous: On Friday alone, she headlined two fundraising events, met with a group of national security heavy-hitters, held a news conference, and granted an interview to CNN.

But the former secretary of state, who at 68 would be the second-oldest president in U.S. history should she win in November, has disclosed fewer details about her health than past presidential nominees -- though she has divulged more information than her opponent, 70-year-old Donald T rump, who has released only a cryptic, one-page letter that his doctor has said was written in just five minutes.

David Scheiner, an assistant professor at the University of Illinois Medical School who was Obama's personal physician for 22 years, argued in a recent Washington Post op-ed that neither Clinton nor T rump had disclosed enough information given their advanced ages.

"Having been in practice for 50 years serving a predominantly geriatric patient population, and now a septuagenarian myself, I can attest that the American people need much more medical information from these candidates," he wrote. "The medical reports from Clinton’s and T rump’s personal physicians do not suffice."

And neither candidate has agreed to a protective pool, an intensive form of media coverage that allows the press to monitor the candidate’s whereabouts at all times -- as the White House press corps does for the president.

“I'm surprised it's mid-September, just a little more than 8 weeks before Election Day, and neither candidate has a protective pool,” Obama’s first White House secretary, Robert Gibbs, tweeted Sunday. “Protective pool isn't always easy for either candidate or press but there comes a point for each nominee when it must be part of daily life.”


Video: https://twitter.com/zgazda66/status/774993814025011200 (https://twitter.com/zgazda66/status/774993814025011200)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 12, 2016, 11:24:56 PM
Financial markets don't like uncertainty. Neither do military Allies.  That's why presidents get extensive physicals and we read about every polyp removed.

Unlike John McCain when he ran for president, neither candidate has done a good job of being forthright or transparent about their health. It's as though they didn't really want to be president, OR they have something to hide. In fact, if I were a national authority, I would advocate making tax and health records part of the paperwork to file with the FEC for everyone  running for president.

Given the lack of integrity of the two, I always wonder what they're hiding if they attack or change the subject when asked a personal question.

Pneumonia is a serious issue for anybody over 65. I don't think she's in danger if she's getting treatment.

BUT- and this is what isn't getting covered - Pneumonia is a common complication of two leading theories as to "What's wrong with Hillary?" 1) Parkinson's disease, and 2) Congestive heart failure.

You can Google the stuff yourselves. I am off again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 15, 2016, 04:32:16 AM
On my 5th state since leaving the one I live in. I am frankly amazed at the lack of presidential yard signs and bumper stickers. I've seen a couple of [Sleezebag] yard signs and a couple of Bernie bumper stickers. Way different than when I made this trip 4 years ago.

That kind of tells me that people aren't enthused for their candidate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on September 15, 2016, 04:26:46 PM
I almost wonder if this is some sort experiment to see how much bullspit the public will put up with. Some oligarchs making a $1 bet, a la Trading Places, to see if we'll vote third party if we have two really bad candidates.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 15, 2016, 06:14:38 PM
On my 5th state since leaving the one I live in. I am frankly amazed at the lack of presidential yard signs and bumper stickers. I've seen a couple of T rump yard signs and a couple of Bernie bumper stickers. Way different than when I made this trip 4 years ago.

That kind of tells me that people aren't enthused for their candidate.

The Halloween stores aren't making a deal over candidate masks being available yet either.  Every election cycle that was like free advertising for them, get that on the news...it's like they want no part of this. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 15, 2016, 07:57:57 PM
I almost wonder if this is some sort experiment to see how much bullspit the public will put up with. Some oligarchs making a $1 bet, a la Trading Places, to see if we'll vote third party if we have two really bad candidates.

Yeah... Like a choice between no qualifications and no integrity.
Kang and Kodos all over again.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 15, 2016, 08:02:07 PM
NEWSPAPER ENDORSEMENTS-

*Johnson-
New Hampshire Union-Leader, Winston-Salem Journal, and Richmond Times Dispatch

*Hillary-
Dallas Morning News

*T rump- ( nothing so far, but I'm sure he has the National Enquirer endorsement in his pocket )


Well, this is a bit muddled. Johnson claims 4 endorsements, although I don't know which other one he means.

Also, Hillary has a multitude of newspaper endorsements from before the convention. It's a bit blurry as to whether any of them will be extended or re-issued or withdrawn.
So you can say she has a multitude or none. Some were probably going to endorse her since the day she announced.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 16, 2016, 05:16:51 AM
The Libertarian Party is asking the General Services Administration that Johnson and Weld be included in security briefings, as per the laws.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 16, 2016, 06:02:19 AM
About time

I am so frustrated that things are looking bad for getting him into the debates... 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 16, 2016, 07:57:24 PM
1) Even if he misses the first debate, he may qualify for the others.

2) He may be peaking too late, but there is a rising tide. I see it in articles about Johnson as a spoiler, or as doing well among Millennials and independents, and I see it in the comments sections of articles. It used to be there were [Sleezebag] Trolls and Hillary shills predominating, but now there are numerous Johnson supporters to set the record straight, and I suspect they are mostly fast-typing Millennials.

3) As the race tightens up, while Johnson can't "run the table" without a debate presence, the 12th Ammendment scenario becomes increasingly likely.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 16, 2016, 09:26:48 PM
Yeah, but the thing is it will be TOO LATE for the start of Early Voting and maybe, the turning in of Absentee Ballots.  The First (and the VP) Debates both are before then.  Which is why, IMVHO, they need to be in those two.

Deadline is 21st?? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 16, 2016, 09:32:20 PM
And if it does get thrown to the House, with the Three in the mix, how do you think it will all shake out?  Especially with any likely Lame Ducks that will still be seated?  Or would it go to the New Congress?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 16, 2016, 11:12:48 PM
It goes to the new congress, one vote per state. There are usually more red than blue, or would be in a deadlock. I'm grilling, I'll get back to you tonight.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 17, 2016, 02:09:18 AM
Okay I translated the current version of Nate Silver's best model, the "Polls Plus forecast" into this map. Everything with a margin of 2.5% or less I left a neutral gray. Maine and Nebraska award electors by Congressional district, rather than as a whole, hence the stripes.

http://www.270towin.com/maps/WL9mw (http://www.270towin.com/maps/WL9mw)

So, fill in the map as you see fit. Johnson's best polling states are New Mexico and Utah, where he polls in the 20s, followed by Idaho, Colorado and Iowa, where he polls in the high teens.

IF nobody wins 270, it goes to the new House, and they vote state by state in January, among the top 3 electoral vote winners. Since there are more red states than blue, it basically rules out a Clinton presidency. So the Democrats back Johnson to  thwart [Sleezebag]. Basically, Johnson will have from November to January to make his case to the public and to members of Congress, and to recruit a tri-partisan administration. If the polls ask Johnson or [Sleezebag]? I think they will favor Gary. [Sleezebag] support is limited. Anti- establishment can claim victory for upsetting the status quo. Anti-Hillary is a larger block than pro-[Sleezebag]. Presumably all of those that endorsed Hillary over [Sleezebag] will be flipping to Gary.

Now the VP will likely be the same party as the new Senate majority, because they only choose from the top 2. Gary would have to find Brainy Bill another job in his administration.





Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 18, 2016, 05:33:57 AM
GLEANINGS-

* Johnson and Weld to appear on CBS 60 Minutes tomorrow night- 7:30 PM ET, 7 PM Pacific.
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/preview-the-libertarian-ticket/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/preview-the-libertarian-ticket/)

* Annecdotally there is a large [Sleezebag] sign near here, but somebody keeps removing the "T". Frequent visitors to this thread can imagine what that looks like.

* As for recent [Sleezebag] News, The New York Times has a nice summary-
-presidential-race.html?_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag]-presidential-race.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/us/politics/donald-[Sleezebag)

* The Clinton Campaign is starting to panic. Apparently they were taking blacks and Millennials for granted. They may have based assumptions on a 90% black turnout. It also seems that they considered the election to be a binary choice. Knowing that Millennials rejected [Sleezebag], they counted them mostly in their column. However, many are going for Johnson and Stein. They are getting as many surrogates onto the campaign trail as possible, and planning a scare campaign to get them to vote for Hillary.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 18, 2016, 06:19:08 PM
For anyone that might be confused as to broadcast date, it is Sunday Evening (rusty had post d at after midnight ET, so just wanted to clarify the date).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 22, 2016, 12:11:36 AM
GLEANINGS-

*538  ( my wife is asking me what Silver says every day now )  - Clinton- 56.8% / [Sleezebag]- 43.2%
Hillary is holding on to Colorado by 1.9 % If it flipped to [Sleezebag], he'd win. If it went to Johnson, it would deadlock, and go to the House.

* Don King endorses Donald [Sleezebag] today.

* According to a Pew poll - "No matter what happens, very few say they'll be excited about the outcome of the election. Just 11 percent of people say they'll be excited if [Sleezebag] wins and 12 percent say so if Clinton wins."

* Annecdotally I saw some [Sleezebag] signs on today's drive. Hillary had a house or two. These are traditionally Republican counties, so it's not a surprise. In fact the surprise remains the lack of yard sign support, and the absence of bumper stickers, for anyone.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on September 22, 2016, 01:07:50 AM
Nothing about the real George Bush saying he was voting for Mrs. Clinton?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on September 22, 2016, 01:29:24 AM
I want to find a Johnson sign.  Been too lazy to look though.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 22, 2016, 04:38:12 AM
I want to find a Johnson sign.  Been too lazy to look though.


Libertarian party of Michigan-
https://www.lp.org/state/michigan (https://www.lp.org/state/michigan)

Johnson-Weld campaign store-
https://shop.johnsonweld.com/ (https://shop.johnsonweld.com/)

This is a commercial source -
http://www.cafepress.com/+gary-johnson+yard-signs (http://www.cafepress.com/+gary-johnson+yard-signs)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 22, 2016, 05:31:48 AM
Nothing about the real George Bush saying he was voting for Mrs. Clinton?

I am away from home. My laptop is still fading. My plan is to replace it when I get home, regardless of whether Civ IV has released specs. If the one I choose doesn't exceed min specs, I'll probably skip VI.

Anyway, every day is different and I don't control how the media is utilized, I can't keep up.

THAT SAID- I had some extra internet today.

GLEANINGS-

* Yes, it seems that The Real George Bush intimated that he will be voting for Hillary to a Kennedy family member who shared the news. The Bush family has been officially neutral and remains so, but there was no denial.

* The GSA refused to give Gary a courtesy security briefing.

* Hillary is resting.

* It seems that Johnson is first among Millennials and Independents, and tied for first among the military, who is now voting.

* My wife the corporate CPA says that they can charge [Sleezebag] on tax evasion and racketeering for what he has done with the [Sleezebag] Foundation, based upon the investigative work of The Washington Post. The New York AG is already investigating on the basis of misuse of a charity.

* Bernstein of Watergate fame at the Washington Post has voiced a rumor that Bill Weld will drop out to save Hillary. Weld refutes this, and Gary used a masculine bovine droppings term on television.

* As for political pressure being brought against the Commission on Presidential Debates by Stein and Johnson supporters, Hofstra is getting their website voted down. Southwest Airlines dropped sponsorship after the same controversy 4 years ago. Budweiser has been pressured so much that their voicemail has complaints on the presidential debates as #1 . I still haven't heard back by facebook messenger from Budweiser or AARP, who is also a sponsor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2016, 05:08:25 AM
Today was mostly about automotive and appliance crisis stuff for me.

Just an observation - The [Sleezebag] trolls have been rather nasty on the net to the Johnson/Stein people. But now that the race has tightened, they are primarily picking only on Hillary, and her people are starting to get unhinged. Hillary people  seem to be taking her "Deplorable" and "unredeemable" remarks as a key note. Apparently they think if they call us Johnson and Stein voters crazy and idiotic it will win us over.

Maybe that's why they're struggling.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 23, 2016, 07:17:18 PM
Politifact decided they ought to compile a scorecard on the infamous New York foundations.

-found/]http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/23/politifact-sheet-comparing-clinton-and-[Sleezebag]-found/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/23/politifact-sheet-comparing-clinton-and-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 24, 2016, 06:59:50 AM
Today's stuff-

* Cruz has publicly declared he will vote for [Sleezebag].

* 538 has the election balanced on New Hampshire, which is currently leaning Hillary. It may be starting to trend to Hillary again, but the electoral college is that close.

* Historical analysis predicts a Clinton loss- "LICHTMAN: "The Keys to the White House" is a historically based prediction system. I derived the system by looking at every American presidential election from 1860 to 1980, and have since used the system to correctly predict the outcomes of all eight American presidential elections from 1984 to 2012.

The keys are 13 true/false questions, where an answer of "true" always favors the reelection of the party holding the White House, in this case the Democrats. And the keys are phrased to reflect the basic theory that elections are primarily judgments on the performance of the party holding the White House. And if six or more of the 13 keys are false — that is, they go against the party in power — they lose. If fewer than six are false, the party in power gets four more years."

* A multitude of Hillary's e-mails will be released to the public... after the election.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 25, 2016, 05:59:12 PM
I want to find a Johnson sign.  Been too lazy to look though.

Order from website.  While your there, sign the petition to get them into the debates.  They need 1 million and so far, as of about a week ago, had over 860,000 signatures...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 25, 2016, 06:13:20 PM
* Historical analysis predicts a Clinton loss- "LICHTMAN: "The Keys to the White House" is a historically based prediction system. I derived the system by looking at every American presidential election from 1860 to 1980, and have since used the system to correctly predict the outcomes of all eight American presidential elections from 1984 to 2012.

The keys are 13 true/false questions, where an answer of "true" always favors the reelection of the party holding the White House, in this case the Democrats. And the keys are phrased to reflect the basic theory that elections are primarily judgments on the performance of the party holding the White House. And if six or more of the 13 keys are false — that is, they go against the party in power — they lose. If fewer than six are false, the party in power gets four more years."

Yes, but does it predict a Win by [Sleezebag] or Johnson, that is the real question.  In a two choice historical prediction system (where when there was a 3rd top of the pack choice AND their inclusion did not really effect on the two main ones), where it goes by whom will lose, it is foregone as to the winner.  Fast forward to today and...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 26, 2016, 12:43:50 AM
Got an email from the Johnson/Weld campaign, about 7 hours ago, that they got the needed 1 million electronic signatures for the petition to get them into the debates.

:Yahoo:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 26, 2016, 04:43:17 AM
The Professor allowed as how [Sleezebag] is an outlier and the rules may not apply to him.

---------------------------

*The New York Times endorses Hillary- SHOCKING!

* 538- Odds of Democrats taking control of the Senate - 52.2% GOP hangs on 47.8% Other sources seem to be losing hope of a turnover altogether. 

* Somehow, this is not re-assuring - [ Politico found that [Sleezebag] averaged "one falsehood every three minutes and 15 seconds over nearly five hours of remarks" while Clinton averaged one falsehood every twelve minutes.

Overall, the news outlet counted 87 "misstatements, exaggerations, falsehoods" from [Sleezebag] and eight from Clinton. ]
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 26, 2016, 06:03:00 AM
Oh! In the anecdotal evidence yard sign and bumper sticker survey- The giant [Sleezebag] sign that kept loosing it's "T" has been removed altogether.  Saw a Johnson sign. What's remarkable is that it had no competition. It was the only one on a multi-mile stretch of the main highway through a population center of 100K. This town used to have yard-sign wars when I lived in the county at the turn of the century.

Saw a Bernie sticker today.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 26, 2016, 10:02:43 PM
Saw a [Sleezebag] sticker on a pick-up today.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 27, 2016, 05:03:26 AM
I listened rather than watched the debate.  I didn't want to be influenced by theatrics. I was reading Gary's live commentary ( my favorite quip of his was- Is there an online [Sleezebag] self-congratulations calculator? )

I think that while the bar was set high for Hillary, [Sleezebag] failed the basic "look presidential" test.

[Sleezebag] had been trending well recently, drawing nearly even, but I think he lost his momentum with this unprepared, unfocused  performance.  Not that I think he lost support, but that he needed to convince those undecideds that he'd do okay- and failed.

As for Hillary- speaking as a Hillary hater, she didn't do anything to infuriate me. If she's been working at being likable- she's making progress. I could argue against her politics, but her performance was okay.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 27, 2016, 02:17:45 PM
Didn't watch.

Only sound bite I got this morning was Hillary accusing [Sleezebag] of not paying his taxes and him saying that just makes him smart. 

Don't think this really moves anyone either way.  [Sleezebag] haters will point how he's a cheat, while the backers just point out he knows how it's broke so he can fix it. 

Any other items of interest out of that thing?  Don't seem like there was a total meltdown by either. 

I can imagine a lot of [Sleezebag] trying to hit the email thing and accusing her of being part of the problem that broke the system, with Clinton attempting a high ground retort and quoting her experience/Trumps lack thereof. 

Hillary wearing red was genius on many levels.  Or maybe I pay too much attention to presentation.   

Any chance Johnson can make the next debate?  (I might actually watch then)

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 27, 2016, 02:34:50 PM
If I were to believe the chatter around the office, [Sleezebag] won the debate by a landslide. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 27, 2016, 03:24:41 PM
If I were to believe the chatter around the office, T rump won the debate by a landslide.

:jawdrop:

Wait, are these the same dumb monkeys that have been a rant subject??  If so, two thing:

1) then I believe their support for him...

2) those are some dumb son.a.femalescankdogs and why aren't they working for you?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on September 27, 2016, 06:37:53 PM
This is UTAH where there are actually news stories run whether one can be both LDS and Democrat or not.  On an Air Force Base, for a Military Contractor.  You can't get much more red. 

All T rump had to do was not foam at the mouth and he'd "win" in these people's eyes. 

Some of the younger folks are democrat, but there's only one vocal one in the 650ish people in the building here. 

-hEt's maiden name is pronounced 'skank', I don't think she is watching this thread, but using it as a derogative would potentially ruffle feathers.   

I'm registered independent btw. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on September 27, 2016, 10:51:37 PM
Hillery clearly won the debate - at least as far as not pissing off anybody.  She came across as expected - prepared, calm, and with (that highly annoying to me at least) smirk / chuckle combination. 

[Sleezebag] was also as expected - cocky, boisterous, tossing out random facts and quips that really mean little or nothing; but are designed (in his mind at least) to make him look / feel better about himself.

The theatrics were good.  [Sleezebag] with his blue tie.  Clinton with her red dress.  And, those were just the basics.  I picked up on a few others, but have to admit I was half asleep (2 hours past my bed time I called it quits).

Overall, I give it 60-40 to Clinton.  Not really enough to sway anybody.  Not really enough to get anybody to actually like any candidate.  But, enough that there were probably a few sound bites out there that made peeps feel that "they won't let that one win". 

-----------------

If Johnson made his million signatures (which I am fairly sure he did) than I really do hope that they get him in.  If they don't, I would love to see the Libertarian party sue someone (no idea who) just to help break up the existing power blocks some. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2016, 01:32:23 AM

Any chance Johnson can make the next debate?  (I might actually watch then)

I can always depend on these two frontrunners to do something that should ruin their chances, but since they are running against somebody else who's favorability rating is underwater, it's never a coup-de-grace. Never say never.

That said- IT'S NOT BLOODY LIKELY.  Call it "Establishment bias"

As far as the designated national polls for calculating the qualifying average, they seem to be the best at first glance. Credible major news organizations as sponsors, NBC/WSJ , ABC/Washington Post , FOX, CBS/NYT etc. Maybe the other was CNN. Lowest margins of error.

Take NBC as example- As soon as they were designated, they suddenly stopped polling. Instead, they sponsored NBC/Survey Monkey polls. Those put Johnson within the margin of error. So that 10 or 11 % from the old NBC/WSJ pollpulled down the average.

As for the other organizations -Another poll sampled so few Millennials that they wouldn't publish their data. One didn't poll independents! Anecdotal evidence demonstrated that Johnson wasn't an option in the 1st and 2nd question in one of the designated polls. Possibly more than one designated poll-

The Washington Post and New York Times have since endorsed Hillary. Somehow I don't think Johnson's going to get a fair chance to qualify. I don't think he'll be included as long as Clump is in agreement against it.

Now you may ask- What possible reasons could pollsters or sponsors have for being biased or uncooperative ? Well, the GOP and Democratic party hire pollsters for a lot of races every year or two. How much business do the Libertarians do?

Sure,  other polls will prove that Johnson leads among active duty military, Millennials and independents. But somehow that won't translate into a debate appearance.

So Johnson remains in a catch 22. Not being on the first question of the poll, or not having his poll% reported on Network nightly news because he's "not doing well enough" and because of that he doesn't get equal news coverage, and because of that he doesn't do well enough in the polls.


Anyway, it also means that Johnson's support is underestimated. But no debate means it's a12th Amendment/ House of Representatives scenario, not an outright Electoral college contender.  Which is a shame because the nation could use a discussion about the relationship between Wars in the Middle East and terrorism at home and how to confront it the way we confronted the Mafia, the relationship between marijuana prohibition-war on drugs-mandatory sentencing- and confrontation between police and minorities and shootings in general.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2016, 04:29:08 AM
GLEANINGS-

* Record setting audience for the debates. Preferential preference afterwards- Clinton- 34%, [Sleezebag]- 18% and "NEITHER"- 47%  Well, maybe he will get there if people translate that to "Let Gary Debate!"

* -debate/]http://www.wnd.com/2016/09/was-hillary-wired-for-[Sleezebag]-debate/ (http://www.wnd.com/2016/09/was-hillary-wired-for-[Sleezebag)   I know that the site is anti-Clinton, but it's not the first time I've come across this info, and a lot of it seems to be consolidated here. Hillary wears an earpiece. It's been noticed more than once. Doesn't look like a hearing aid. Some think it's a theater style prompter system, some say it's a German anti seizure system.

* Hillary is out-fundraising [Sleezebag] among billionaires by a 20:1 ratio

* [Sleezebag] played to disgruntled and displaced rust-belt workers, Clinton played to suburban women, and both connected. Thing is, people thought Clinton insincere & presidential. [Sleezebag] made a more passionate, but boorish impression.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on September 28, 2016, 06:49:25 PM
Did you know that Johnson was live during the debates on Twitter?

They are working very hard to get into the next debates.

Yesterday, was at a 7-11 and noticed the "election" coffee cups.  Did not get to ask as to which was more popular, but my guess is the ones that are non-partisan...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 28, 2016, 08:01:29 PM
Gary had an editorial piece in the New York Times-

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/opinion/gary-johnson-take-a-deep-breath-voters-there-is-a-third-way.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/opinion/gary-johnson-take-a-deep-breath-voters-there-is-a-third-way.html?_r=0)

I signed up for Twitter and listened to the debate with one window and followed Gary on the other.
I found his Facebook interview beforehand much better, where the interviewer was taking questions from the audience. Between that and the debate a Bloomberg reporter pissed him off with an Aleppo question. He was very frustrated that he was excluded from the debate for not being able to cross the T's and dot the I's on Middle Eastern policy, while Hillary, who was responsible for it and it's death, destruction, and maiming of American service people was included, and he wasn't there to speak out against regime change and unintended consequences.

So- mostly he wasn't answering the questions as much as commenting on the answers and candidates. But he did mange to advocate some things missing from the discussion- balanced budgets, free trade, the war on drugs being the root of police violence, and The Constitution.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 29, 2016, 04:05:52 AM
Gleanings-

* Big News- Tomorrow's Newsweek will feature a story about [Sleezebag]'s ties to Castro's Cuba when it was illegal to do so. Highly improper and hypocritical, and probably criminal.

According to Rusty- If the allegations prove true, it will cost [Sleezebag] the election, because after doing that he lied to the Cubans in Miami in a bid for a Reform Party presidential nomination, and Florida is too precarious for [Sleezebag] to have them turn on him.

No Florida, No 270.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on September 29, 2016, 04:22:36 AM
Johnson had a town hall in New Hampshire with Chris Matthews. Johnson couldn't really come up with the name of a current world leader he admired. I'm not sure that I can either, as I would consider the ones I can think of statists or authoritarians. So maybe this is a big deal, or maybe it's nothing.

We'll see.

Beyond that, most of his ideas were well received. He got loud applause for concluding his remarks about escalating college costs being due to the absence of market forces with- if everybody declined college next year because of the cost, it would come down. I thought that was his toughest sell.

But, as it happens, the audience was divided on his views about campaign finance. He's for transparency, but against contribution limits, because those restrictions favor incumbents.
(Gary favors term limits.)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 01, 2016, 08:47:16 PM
Well, I'm home again. Hope to acquire or order a computer this weekend.

Observations-  Ohio expresses support for [Sleezebag] and Johnson. I have since learned that the Clinton campaign is conceding it.  Indiana, I couldn't tell that it was an election season, even though their governor is running for VP!

Coming home, my Johnson sign is still the only one in I've seen in my sub division. Normally they are plentiful here. It's a really sad thing for me when so few are actually proud of their political choice.

So far Hillary has 12 -15 major newspaper endorsements. Johnson has 6 ( rather impressive for a third party ) , and [Sleezebag] has ZERO, actually minus 1 ! As my wife reminds me, USA today denounced [Sleezebag], urging readers to vote for anyone else but him, and they have never endorsed in the past, but their editorial board was unanimous for the first time, so they decided to make an exception.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 01, 2016, 08:56:48 PM
https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153383327084364/ (http://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/videos/10153383327084364/)


Here's a new add which gets to the point.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 01, 2016, 09:09:11 PM
Make sure it meets the recommended specs for Civ6...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 01, 2016, 11:33:32 PM
Make sure it meets the recommended specs for Civ6...



Yeah, that's been the hang-up.
I intend to purchase my laptop from Best Buy, I appreciate their customer service.

-------------------------------------

Meanwhile, the Chicago Tribune's presidential endorsement pretty well sums it up for me-
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2016, 12:40:32 AM
I was just out on a short errand - and I definitely noticed a lack of offensive political yard signs, unprecedented on the first of October in a presidential year...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 02, 2016, 01:20:31 AM
Drop a convincing Johnson in the debates to where all of those non sign yards homeowners will finally notice...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 03, 2016, 04:02:14 PM
Driving to medical appointments, etc. My Johnson sign is the only presidential sign in my subdivision. Only saw 2 or 3 [Sleezebag] signs in a heavily GOP county. Everything else is Senatorial. You wouldn't know there's a presidential election.

Computer ordered.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 04, 2016, 01:46:22 AM
turn 6 screenshot of the "PRDG: WPC sails to Norway" is up in the Civ6 forum
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2016, 02:05:04 AM
;spock
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 04, 2016, 10:46:21 PM
The Mrs. Ventured into the neighboring county for emergency dental surgery. Same story on yard signs.

Lots of negative articles about Gary today. I think they are distortions. I also think this is the reason behind it-
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-04/which-states-can-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-spoil (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-04/which-states-can-gary-johnson-and-jill-stein-spoil)

Basically the Duopoly feels entitled to certain voters and states. Third parties force them to earn those votes, rather than take them for granted. They don't like that.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 05, 2016, 03:18:34 AM
Tim Kaine either has Turret's syndrome... or he is the most annoying candidate of the year.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on October 06, 2016, 12:36:19 AM
I could only stomach about 15-20 min last night before I got sick of it and went to bed
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 06, 2016, 02:58:59 AM
I gave up and went to the kitchen to install a dishwasher.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on October 06, 2016, 03:40:46 AM
I could only stomach about 15-20 min last night before I got sick of it and went to bed
Lucky for you. I had to watch the entire debate for a speech and debate course. I have to observe the non-verbal and verbal cues of the candidates, analyze the nonexistent arguments of the candidates, and present a logical argument for which of the two candidates I believe gave a better presentation. I have to write a 5 page essay on the topic. Where does the vomiting emotional icon exist on the forum?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 06, 2016, 03:59:47 AM
There isn't one - and I wouldn't be easy to persuade to make such a vulgar thing...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on October 06, 2016, 04:11:09 AM
Understood. I also have to repeat the same task for the presidential debate on Sunday. I finished the essay for the Vice Presidential Debate earlier in the evening. I think Thomas Paine had a slightly better presentation on the account of his preparation, but the rest of the aspects of the debate were a near tie in my argument.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 06, 2016, 04:41:19 AM
I could only stomach about 15-20 min last night before I got sick of it and went to bed
Lucky for you. I had to watch the entire debate for a speech and debate course. I have to observe the non-verbal and verbal cues of the candidates, analyze the nonexistent arguments of the candidates, and present a logical argument for which of the two candidates I believe gave a better presentation. I have to write a 5 page essay on the topic. Where does the vomiting emotional icon exist on the forum?

How can you fill 5 pages about essentially Nothing??

do you have a :popcorn: smiley?  Let's see...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 06, 2016, 01:36:54 PM
;popcorn
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 06, 2016, 03:10:42 PM
;popcorn
Semi-Colon popcorn...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 06, 2016, 03:16:26 PM
Yep.  It's the CFC one, but I made some improvements.  The semicolon codes are that much easier/faster to type because you don't have to [shift].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 07, 2016, 04:29:07 AM
Yep.  It's the CFC one, but I made some improvements.  The semicolon codes are that much easier/faster to type because you don't have to [shift].


Cool.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 03:15:04 AM
WikiLeaks strikes again-

https://theintercept.com/2016/10/07/excerpts-of-hillary-clintons-paid-speeches-to-goldman-sachs-finally-leaked/

"Excerpts of Hillary Clinton’s remarks during paid speeches to Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley, and other groups were leaked online Friday afternoon by WikiLeaks. Clinton, who was paid upwards of $225,000 per speech, earned more than $22 million on the paid speaking circuit after resigning as secretary of state.

The excerpts are revealed in an email from Tony Carrk, the research director of the Clinton campaign, to John Podesta, the campaign chairman, and other top campaign officials. Carrk, who did not respond to a request for comment, highlighted in the memo the most politically damaging quotes from each paid speech, under headers including “CLINTON ADMITS SHE IS OUT OF TOUCH,” “CLINTON SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE A PRIVATE AND PUBLIC POSITION ON POLICY,” and “CLINTON REMARKS ARE PRO KEYSTONE AND PRO TRADE.”

The wealth Clinton accumulated was a topic at the paid events.

Discussing middle class economic anxieties, Clinton told a crowd at a Goldman Sachs-sponsored speech that she is now “kind of far removed because the life I’ve lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven’t forgotten it.”

But the discussions were also an opportunity for Clinton to speak candidly about policy, politics, and her approach to governing.

Touching on her view of developing financial regulations, Clinton declared to a crowd of Goldman Sachs bankers that in order to “figure out what works,” the “people that know the industry better than anybody are the people who work in the industry.”

At the Goldman Sachs Builders and Innovators Summit, Clinton responded to a question from chief executive Lloyd Blankfein, who quipped that you “go to Washington” to “make a small fortune.” Clinton agreed with the comment and complained about ethics rules that require officials to divest from certain assets before entering government. “There is such a bias against people who have led successful and/or complicated lives,” Clinton said.

At a speech for Morgan Stanley on April 18, 2013, Clinton praised the Simpson-Bowles deficit reduction plan — which would reduce corporate tax rates while raising the Social Security age. “But Simpson-Bowles — and I know you heard from Erskine earlier today — put forth the right framework. Namely, we have to restrain spending, we have to have adequate revenues, and we have to incentivize growth. It’s a three-part formula,” she said.

Clinton also told a housing trade group in 2013 that on certain issues, she has “a public and a private position.” “If everybody’s watching, you know, all of the back room discussions and the deals, you know, then people get a little nervous, to say the least,” said Clinton. “So, you need both a public and a private position.”

The Intercept was the first media outlet to ask Clinton directly if she would release the transcripts of her paid speeches to Goldman Sachs. When approached at an event in Manchester, New Hampshire, Clinton laughed off the question.

The issue was raised again during the Democratic primary debates and in other media events. In February of this year, the New York Times editorial board called for Clinton to release her speech transcripts, declaring that voters “have every right to know what Mrs. Clinton told these groups.”

According to reports, the campaign reviewed the speech transcripts but decided against releasing them out of fear that she would appear too friendly to banks and other donor interest groups.

But there are signs in the emails released by WikiLeaks that she also took a fairly progressive stance on certain topics, including health care reform.

During a talk in Grand Rapids, Michigan, in 2013, Clinton praised the single-payer model for health care reform. “If you look at the single-payer systems, like Scandinavia, Canada, and elsewhere, they can get costs down because, you know, although their care, according to statistics, overall is as good or better on primary care,” she said, adding that there were some drawbacks. “They do impose things like waiting times, you know.”

But during the campaign this year, she dismissed the idea, declaring that single payer will “never, ever” happen in the U.S. Audio obtained by The Intercept last week showed Clinton dismissing the concept of free health care during another private event with donors."

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 03:33:18 AM
Meanwhile the RNC is again discussing what to do if [Sleezebag] quits....

Why? A tape came out of him being a sexist jerk, causing even Ryan and Preibus to denounce him. I'll share just enough to give you an idea of the tone. 

-after-access-hollywood-tape-released/]http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-rebuke-[Sleezebag]-after-access-hollywood-tape-released/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-rebuke-[Sleezebag)

"On a 2005 tape released Friday by The Washington Post, [Sleezebag] told Billy Bush, then of “Access Hollywood,” that you can “grab [women] by the p****” and “you can make them do anything.” Bush laughs and then asks soap opera star Arianna Zucker to hug [Sleezebag]. "

------------------------------------

Oddly enough for me these revelations are as much non-events to me as the Snowden disclosures ( I predicted abuses when the Patriot Act was passed) and  [Sleezebag]'s tax returns ( my wife and I have theorized that the reason he wasn't making charitable contributions was because he didn't need the deductions, which must mean he was carrying forward bankruptcy losses.) .  I have always thought [Sleezebag] was a sexist jerk. I have always thought that Hillary was greedy and disingenuous. No Surprises.   
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 08, 2016, 04:12:29 AM
Just saw that on the news.

Will this be enough?  Can Johnson get a push now? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 08, 2016, 04:21:44 AM
I've concluded that Mrs. Clinton is in it for the gurl powah and the village children - everything else is just pragmatism because it comes up while she's running for president of women's lib children.  I'm serious.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 05:41:49 AM
SHORT ANSWER- IT"S REALLY HARD FOR GARY TO GET TRACTION LATELY. The Clinton Campaign has changed policy. Previously they were ignoring Johnson. Now they are against him.

Maybe it's that Johnson is polling well with Millennials, or that Nate Silver of 538 personally wrote an article that said it was plausible that Johnson could win his home state of New Mexico and deny both Clinton and [Sleezebag] a win in the Electoral College.

Now President Obama, Joe Biden and Tim Kaine have all attacked Gary. The Boston Globe misrepresented an interview with Bill Weld, suggesting that he was embarrassed by Gary and  would soon ditch him and the Libertarian Party. Weld has refuted this, but the rumor has spread through the press, and grows with the retellings.

Also The New York Times, which has cited Johnson for his uncommon honesty after his editorial board interview,  endorsed Hillary, and  took 3 corrections to get their own story right about Aleppo, falsely stating that it was the capital of Syria, then the capital of ISIS, etc.  - had the audacity to ask Gary if he knew who the leader of North Korea was. He said "Yes" when they continued to look at him, he said "You want me to name him.... " then drolly said "Really."   So the headlines  were Johnson doesn't know or refuses to answer.       I know, and the NYT should know that Gary has cited North Korea as the number 1 problem in the world "eventually they wil have nuclear missiles that work." and spoken about it and Kim often.

It's been like that. One attempt to misrepresent or discredit him after another.    I could go into details about one thing or another if anybody cares.   


Oh. One that really irritates me is the effort to discredit him as a brain-damaged stoner. He hasn't used since the beginning of May as I recall.   

More importantly he has beaten Bill Weld at chess multiple times. Bill Weld who graduated with an A.B. summa cum laude in classics from Harvard College in 1966, studied economics at University College, Oxford, and graduated with a J.D. cum laude from Harvard Law School in 1970. Bill Weld who used to play multiple simultaneous games of chess against all challengers while blindfolded and win !   

If Gary can do that, I think it's his critics who are stupid or uninformed, not him.

If anybody doubts his foreign policy chops, they should read what was said about his approach vs. Clinton vs [Sleezebag] in Foreign Policy Magazine , or watch his hour long speech at the University of Chicago today.

Explaining the Gary News and correcting the misinformation would take all of my time each day. BUT IF ANYBODY HAS A GARY QUESTION IN PARTICULAR I WILL TRY TO ANSWER.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
I have no idea how this [Sleezebag] stuff will shake out. Apparently the GOP donors are howling.  [Sleezebag] may make an actual apology.  Or resign rather than let Hillary tear him apart on the debate stage with a YUGE audience. Or he may have to continue his campaign with his own money. The Horror!

But video/audio isn't deniable, and it lends credibility to the other allegations of him being a sexist jerk.They will search for and find similar remarks for the rest of the month.  I said [Sleezebag] will take down the GOP, either now, or in the mid-terms.

Well, maybe sooner than later.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 06:39:08 AM
Here is T rump's first ever apology-

https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/vb.153080620724/10157844642270725/?type=2&theater (http://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/vb.153080620724/10157844642270725/?type=2&theater)


My wife watched and said- "He's dead in the water."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 08:28:50 AM
This is the trailer for the documentary about the Johnson/Weld campaign.




http://www.rigged2016.com/ (http://www.rigged2016.com/)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 08, 2016, 02:01:58 PM
Just saw that on the news.

Will this be enough?  Can Johnson get a push now?
Get him onto the debate stage and yeah, it will
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 08:38:59 PM
*Here's Gary's foreign policy overview-
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/gary-johnson-my-foreign-policy-vision-17974 (http://nationalinterest.org/feature/gary-johnson-my-foreign-policy-vision-17974)

*Hillary is smart enough to let [Sleezebag] and the GOP do the talking until the debate.



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 09:48:03 PM
https://www.facebook.com/fusionmedianetwork/videos/vb.1069936086365702/1588736821152290/?type=2&theater (https://www.facebook.com/fusionmedianetwork/videos/vb.1069936086365702/1588736821152290/?type=2&theater)

Somebody did their Halloween décor as the [Sleezebag] Wall.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 08, 2016, 10:19:19 PM

A Statement from Gov. John Kasich






John Kasich·Saturday, October 8, 2016
.

"Nothing that has happened in the last 48 hours is surprising to me or many others. Many people were angry and questioned why I would not endorse Donald [Sleezebag] or attend the Republican Convention.  I’ve long had concerns with Donald [Sleezebag] that go beyond his temperament. We have substantive policy differences on conservative issues like trade, our relationship with Russia, and the importance of balancing the federal budget.  I’ve held out hope that he would change on those disqualifying policy positions, but he has not.  I’ve also encouraged him to change his behavior for the better and offer a positive, inclusive vision for our country, but he has not.  It's clear that he hasn't changed and has no interest in doing so.  As a result, Donald [Sleezebag] is a man I cannot and should not support. The actions of the last day are disgusting, but that’s not why I reached this decision, it has been an accumulation of his words and actions that many have been warning about.  I will not vote for a nominee who has behaved in a manner that reflects so poorly on our country.  Our country deserves better."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 09, 2016, 12:19:01 AM

A Statement from Gov. John Kasich






John Kasich·Saturday, October 8, 2016
.

"Nothing that has happened in the last 48 hours is surprising to me or many others. Many people were angry and questioned why I would not endorse Donald T rump or attend the Republican Convention.  I’ve long had concerns with Donald T rump that go beyond his temperament. We have substantive policy differences on conservative issues like trade, our relationship with Russia, and the importance of balancing the federal budget.  I’ve held out hope that he would change on those disqualifying policy positions, but he has not.  I’ve also encouraged him to change his behavior for the better and offer a positive, inclusive vision for our country, but he has not.  It's clear that he hasn't changed and has no interest in doing so.  As a result, Donald T rump is a man I cannot and should not support. The actions of the last day are disgusting, but that’s not why I reached this decision, it has been an accumulation of his words and actions that many have been warning about.  I will not vote for a nominee who has behaved in a manner that reflects so poorly on our country.  Our country deserves better."

so, does that mean that he supports Hilary or whom??
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 09, 2016, 12:58:40 AM
Many Republicans are now wanting [Sleezebag] off the ticket and have just Pence run...

So, with less than a month to the election, exactly how does that work?? 

And will [Sleezebag] gracefully bow out?  Personally, I think that he will act the baby that he really is and throw a tantrum.

The RNC might want him off, but what can they legally do to remove him from the Ballot, if Donald refuses to step aside? 

If Write-ins for Pence alone are counted, how do you interpret them, as he is already as the VP on the Ballot?  Could Trumps Lawyers say that it also meant him?

Will the RNC just cut off all funding and the only "support" that he will receive will be his supporting Super-PAC's.  AS Ads are payed in Advance, can the RNC only pull the ones that they can control and will the ones that [Sleezebag] controls keep them up (the ones already payed in advance)?

If Nov 3rd comes around and he is still on the ticket ( :shudder: and wins), how will the Electoral College do it's thing??

Is this the Death Knell for the Republican Party?

Will [Sleezebag] be on the Stage tomorrow Night?  Hilary will be, if he is, just to pile it on even thicker.  If Pence tries to go on instead of [Sleezebag], will they let him?

Will Trumps diehard supporters care, and still vote for him?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 09, 2016, 01:33:01 AM
Elok says it turns out it won't happen because the ballots are already printed...

That actually sounds credible to me.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 09, 2016, 02:10:48 AM
There are many precedents for using the vote for one person be used for someone else.  People whom have dies and the wife takes their place.  Other things, but there is some legal for changing it...but those were also for more local things, not something that is for this Constitutionally provisioned position in the Government of the US.

And if the RNC throws him off, but he balks and throws his lawyers at it, it will have to go to the Supreme Court as it's essentially a federal issue.  But first going through each State's Court systems.  This is not an after the fact thing, like in 2000, this is before he election.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 09, 2016, 05:33:41 AM
IIRC- It's a mess.  This is why early voting should be limited to 30 days.

Each state has it's own election laws and legal precedents for what to do should somebody resign, die, or become incapacitated between nomination and election and taking office.

It becomes a case by case basis. The RNC would have the power to select a replacement in the event of a vacancy, BUT they cannot create one. They are stuck with [Sleezebag], at least until he loses. [Sleezebag] insists he'll never quit.

Whether Pence goes down with the Trumptanic remains to be seen.


All of that said, if [Sleezebag] were to quit before the election, the RNC would have the right to substitute, and GOP electors would likely follow that lead....provided the RNC chooses wisely. For example, Jeff Sessions, the anti-immigrant Senator from Alabama would likely be acceptable to all [Sleezebag] electors, but not have much more voter appeal. A Cruz, Kasich, Rubio or Ryan would appeal  to more voters, and be more likely to win, but the electors might consider them backstabbers.


***************
Kasich is likely "clearing his throat" to remind everyone he's still standing by to run for president and win Ohio and beat Hillary by 10% nationally, so that's why he's not endorsing anyone.

If [Sleezebag] and his Alt-Right , politically incorrect crew retain control of the GOP after the election, will they change it to the Grandpa's Old White Party?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 09, 2016, 07:05:53 AM
I hate to get my hopes up, because this is like Lucy and the football, I heard the same story in early August that there would be a major announcement at the end of August, but nothing happened. Different source this time, and actual quote marks.

-gaffe/42026694]http://www.koat.com/news/gary-johnson-gop-officials-pledge-support-after-[Sleezebag]-gaffe/42026694 (http://www.koat.com/news/gary-johnson-gop-officials-pledge-support-after-[Sleezebag)

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. —Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson says he's receiving support from GOP officials after a video was released of Donald [Sleezebag] making lewd comments about women in 2005.

In the video, which was released by The Washington Post, [Sleezebag] can be heard saying vulgar terms about kissing and touching women.

On Saturday before a rally at the University of New Mexico, Johnson called [Sleezebag]'s comments "not presidential" and "over the top."

"I would have never said something like that in my entire lifetime, and his apology was not an apology at all," Johnson said.

[Sleezebag] has since apologized saying that the incident doesn't reflect who he is today, and that the conversation was "locker room talk."

Johnson said that's no excuse.

"Those are comments that I don't think are acceptable in a locker room," Johnson said.

Johnson told Action 7 News that he's received an overwhelming amount of support from dozens of GOP officials since the video was released.

"It's such a massive amount that the campaign can't even begin to deal with it at the moment," Johnson said. "They're wanting to know how they can lend their support, and what's the best way they can communicate their support because they're done."

Johnson is still a long shot to win the White House, but the backlash surrounding [Sleezebag] may help him siphon more votes from the GOP candidate.

It could even help Johnson win New Mexico, where polls show him within striking distance of [Sleezebag] and Clinton.

Johnson has been snubbed so far when it comes to participating in the presidential debates, but experts believe he can have a real impact as a third-party candidate with the general election just a month away.

He will spend the next few days in New Mexico campaigning. Officials say Johnson will then head to states where he's polling well.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 10, 2016, 12:13:44 AM
<iframe src='https://skip.st/one/cb95cefa0f864866a8718d5e15b05ca2' frameborder='0'></iframe>

This allows you to type or speak an issue into a microphone, and see a videoclip from a townhall or interview of Johnson or Weld answering/speaking to the topic.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 10, 2016, 02:07:36 AM
Well.  Made me watch.  We'll see how long.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 10, 2016, 02:16:29 AM
Great because we are good is an awful catch phrase.  Whoever put that in the prep is an idiot.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 10, 2016, 02:21:11 AM
The blue suit isn't great either.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 10, 2016, 02:29:24 AM
Why isn't Gary on that stage, but maybe best At This Point of Time. 

[Sleezebag] is an idiot, pure, simple...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 10, 2016, 02:41:55 AM
I'll buy half that - there's nothing pure about him...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 10, 2016, 02:47:25 AM
Eh. I'm done. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 10, 2016, 03:12:49 AM
Great because we are good is an awful catch phrase.  Whoever put that in the prep is an idiot.


It a misattributed quote that's been recycled a lot. Snopes worthy-  Alexis de Tocqueville — 'America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.'

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-tocqueville-fraud/article/8100 (http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-tocqueville-fraud/article/8100)     goes into it.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 11, 2016, 03:32:18 AM
Man! That was awful!

I'm not sure where to begin. As a Hillary hater, I only want her to go away.  These jail threats are disgusting in a 3rd world way.
As for [Sleezebag], he may have earned himself jail time with [Sleezebag] University, but we'll let that up to the judge and jury.

[Sleezebag] energized his base while alienating independents and undecideds.

Clinton just tried to keep her poise,  not finish him. 

Uhh, even if [Sleezebag] won this debate, he lost the election. He was pawned. If she had gone after him like the first debate and finished him, the GOP would have bailed out on him. Then if he faced reality and resigned, they could have replaced him with somebody like Kasich and given her a serious challenge. But he raged enough to rally his base, and keep some of the GOP in line by intimidation.

Now Hillary can watch as [Sleezebag] bleeds out.  Stories that fit the molestation narrative are hitting the media.


Interestingly enough, a Washington Times poll   -

 
Poll: Who won the presidential debate?


Hillary Clinton    10989 (10%)
Donald [Sleezebag]    31003 (29%)
Neither                3350 (3%)
Gary Johnson     60065 (57%)








Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 11, 2016, 03:41:51 AM
It would have been higher if he had actually been on the stage

Is he even going to get into the last debate??
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 11, 2016, 07:39:55 AM
*I don't know. It could get interesting. He took a jump in the first poll since the tape release. I have a feeling [Sleezebag] or Hillary might decline the last debate on some pretense.

*WikiLeaks is releasing stuff about Hillary, but they are able to divert attention by bringing forward women who say [Sleezebag] groped them, Howard Stern clips, and the like.

* http://www.rigged2016.com/ (http://www.rigged2016.com/)   The documentary is available for viewing for a limited time. It includes Gary Johnson, but it's more about the 2-party system not representing much of America. The trailer is about 2 mins, 50 seconds. The film is more like an hour and a half.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 11, 2016, 07:47:07 AM
Eh. I'm done.

By the way, Uno, what's the Halloween mask sales presidential predictor look like now?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 11, 2016, 08:16:30 AM
Some of these Clump searches make me want to wash my hands.  Here's an editorial by Johnson in the New Hampshire Union Leader -  -collapses-we-offer-republicans-a-better-choice--20161010]http://www.unionleader.com/columns/gary-johnson-as-[Sleezebag]-collapses-we-offer-republicans-a-better-choice--20161010 (http://www.unionleader.com/columns/gary-johnson-as-[Sleezebag)

Another View -- Gary Johnson: As [Sleezebag] collapses, we offer Republicans a better choice

By GARY JOHNSON

THE ART OF POLITICS is about finding common ground with as many voters as possible without abandoning core principles of governing. It is not about sticking with candidates who are utterly flawed, just because they represent your political party.

My core principles are about limiting spending by government, defending the civil liberties in the Constitution and preserving the right of all people to live their lives as they choose.

As the former Republican governor of the predominantly-Democrat New Mexico, I have a proven record of fiscal conservatism and social tolerance.

Together with my running mate Bill Weld, the former Republican governor of Massachusetts, we present a powerful alternative to an extreme and fearful partisanship gripping America in this presidential campaign.

When Donald [Sleezebag] holds a press conference an hour and a half before the debate begins with the intent of deflecting attention from his own misogyny by trying to convince us the Clintons are worse, we probably knew everything we needed to know about this debate, and more important, this campaign.

Character and trust are everything. It shouldn’t matter whether a microphone is turned on or not. Mr. [Sleezebag]’s comments about women — which we have all now heard — aren’t any more appropriate in a locker room than on national TV.

We have fallen through the looking glass. Thanks to two candidates who are each running on a platform of not being the other, we are in historically uninspiring territory.

Thanks to some great questions from the audience, however, there were a few brief discussions of issues. I even heard some things from each of them with which I agreed.
But the bigger question hanging over the entire debate is whether either of these candidates can be believed.

Without any confidence that a President will have the integrity, character and principles to actually put the nation first, nothing else matters.

Americans deserve better. Women deserve better. And Republicans, and Democrats, deserve better. They deserve candidates who are not embarrassments.

They need, and they have, another choice in Bill Weld and myself. We are on the ballot in all 50 states. We have records of success in the states we served. We are not asking voters to hold their noses or take leaps of faith. And we feel no need to have differing public and private positions.

As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton was responsible for promoting counter-productive policies in Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria.

In contrast, I maintain that our foreign policy and military actions must support clear U.S. interests. That seems obvious, but during the past 15 years, that has not been the case.

Our interests are our lives, our property and our freedom. They are not necessarily a desire to shape the world in our own image or to pick winners and losers in civil wars on the other side of the globe.

Our nation needs the confidence that its commander-in-chief will act predictably and responsibly to defend America, and not to aggress elsewhere in our name.

Moreover, Ms. Clinton is an advocate for government and the state, and not for the people. In speeches to New York banks, she declared the importance of having a public position and a private position on controversial issues.

That’s not being honest and straightforward with the American people.

Many Americans simply cannot bring themselves to support either of these candidates. As a former Republican, I continue to be shocked that party members allowed themselves to nominate Mr. [Sleezebag] as their standard-bearer.

With the flood of Republicans withdrawing their endorsements of Mr. [Sleezebag], and House Speaker Paul Ryan refusing now to defend him, his campaign seems to be at its end. With [Sleezebag] on the ticket, the Republican Party is entering a death spiral spawned by its embrace of nativism and xenophobia.

Even putting aside Mr. [Sleezebag]’s outrageous policy positions on building a wall, on deporting 11 million immigrants, on imposing 35 percent tariffs, or in pledging to torture family members of terrorists, can we really know what he actually believes?

We speak often of reaching across party lines if elected to get things done for America. Today, we would like to reach across party lines to invite our Republican friends to join our campaign. There is a presidential ticket with two candidates who served honorably and effectively as Republican governors, and we are it.

.Gary Johnson is the former two-term governor of New Mexico and the Libertarian Party nominee for President.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on October 11, 2016, 01:19:47 PM
He's right...but Gary Johnson seems to be an embarrasment in his own way as well.  If only the libertarians had picked a different candidate for this year...

Some of these Clump searches make me want to wash my hands.  Here's an editorial by Johnson in the New Hampshire Union Leader -  http://www.unionleader.com/columns/gary-johnson-as-T rump-collapses-we-offer-republicans-a-better-choice--20161010 (http://www.unionleader.com/columns/gary-johnson-as-T rump-collapses-we-offer-republicans-a-better-choice--20161010)

Another View -- Gary Johnson: As T rump collapses, we offer Republicans a better choice

By GARY JOHNSON

THE ART OF POLITICS is about finding common ground with as many voters as possible without abandoning core principles of governing. It is not about sticking with candidates who are utterly flawed, just because they represent your political party.

My core principles are about limiting spending by government, defending the civil liberties in the Constitution and preserving the right of all people to live their lives as they choose.

As the former Republican governor of the predominantly-Democrat New Mexico, I have a proven record of fiscal conservatism and social tolerance.

Together with my running mate Bill Weld, the former Republican governor of Massachusetts, we present a powerful alternative to an extreme and fearful partisanship gripping America in this presidential campaign.

When Donald T rump holds a press conference an hour and a half before the debate begins with the intent of deflecting attention from his own misogyny by trying to convince us the Clintons are worse, we probably knew everything we needed to know about this debate, and more important, this campaign.

Character and trust are everything. It shouldn’t matter whether a microphone is turned on or not. Mr. T rump’s comments about women — which we have all now heard — aren’t any more appropriate in a locker room than on national TV.

We have fallen through the looking glass. Thanks to two candidates who are each running on a platform of not being the other, we are in historically uninspiring territory.

Thanks to some great questions from the audience, however, there were a few brief discussions of issues. I even heard some things from each of them with which I agreed.
But the bigger question hanging over the entire debate is whether either of these candidates can be believed.

Without any confidence that a President will have the integrity, character and principles to actually put the nation first, nothing else matters.

Americans deserve better. Women deserve better. And Republicans, and Democrats, deserve better. They deserve candidates who are not embarrassments.

They need, and they have, another choice in Bill Weld and myself. We are on the ballot in all 50 states. We have records of success in the states we served. We are not asking voters to hold their noses or take leaps of faith. And we feel no need to have differing public and private positions.

As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton was responsible for promoting counter-productive policies in Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria.

In contrast, I maintain that our foreign policy and military actions must support clear U.S. interests. That seems obvious, but during the past 15 years, that has not been the case.

Our interests are our lives, our property and our freedom. They are not necessarily a desire to shape the world in our own image or to pick winners and losers in civil wars on the other side of the globe.

Our nation needs the confidence that its commander-in-chief will act predictably and responsibly to defend America, and not to aggress elsewhere in our name.

Moreover, Ms. Clinton is an advocate for government and the state, and not for the people. In speeches to New York banks, she declared the importance of having a public position and a private position on controversial issues.

That’s not being honest and straightforward with the American people.

Many Americans simply cannot bring themselves to support either of these candidates. As a former Republican, I continue to be shocked that party members allowed themselves to nominate Mr. T rump as their standard-bearer.

With the flood of Republicans withdrawing their endorsements of Mr. T rump, and House Speaker Paul Ryan refusing now to defend him, his campaign seems to be at its end. With T rump on the ticket, the Republican Party is entering a death spiral spawned by its embrace of nativism and xenophobia.

Even putting aside Mr. T rump’s outrageous policy positions on building a wall, on deporting 11 million immigrants, on imposing 35 percent tariffs, or in pledging to torture family members of terrorists, can we really know what he actually believes?

We speak often of reaching across party lines if elected to get things done for America. Today, we would like to reach across party lines to invite our Republican friends to join our campaign. There is a presidential ticket with two candidates who served honorably and effectively as Republican governors, and we are it.

.Gary Johnson is the former two-term governor of New Mexico and the Libertarian Party nominee for President.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 11, 2016, 03:11:22 PM
Johnson is being vilified locally based off something about wanting rights for vaping. 

I don't know that TEH CHURCH has ever made an official statement, but general Mormon sentiment (at least in Utah) is Vaping = Smoking, and is thus of satan. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 11, 2016, 03:41:57 PM
I think that, by far, he is the best candidate that the Libertarians have put forward from their party, in the whole history of that party...

And if he could get a national stage that shows him in contrast to the others, he has a very good chance of winning...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on October 11, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
I have seen over the past couple days a couple adds by Democrats doing Gary bashing.  Not so much adds, but Dems not up for office this year giving interviews and not talking about how good Hillary is (why they were 'supposed' to be on the air to begin with) or doing Donald bashing (which is getting old - we know he is a nutter), but instead talking smack about Gary.  As they are often being interviewed by Dem media types to begin with.... well... very intentional Gary bashing in the hopes that they won't bleed any more for 3rd parties. 

Gary missing the 2nd debate is probably the best thing for him.  Missing the 1st was just bad though, as his name is't really out there enough to be ID'ed as a valid 3rd option.  If he does make it into the 3rd, his best course of action will be "hey, leave me out of it, you to go back to trout slapping each other."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 12, 2016, 07:16:20 AM
He's right...but Gary Johnson seems to be an embarrasment in his own way as well.  If only the libertarians had picked a different candidate for this year...

The other frontrunner candidates running for the Libertarian Party nomination-

1) Had no elected government experience.
2) As "real" Libertarians took positions against the right of states to issue driver's licenses and the  legitimacy of the '64 Civil Rights Act, among other things.
3) Were unknowns, with 2 exceptions-
   A) John McAfee ( yes, that McAfee) the eccentric millionaire who fled his home in Belize to avoid being questioned about the murder of his neighbor . More of a philosopher/idealist than a politician. He wasn't serious about trying to become president, he just wanted the title of presidential nominee for a speaking tour.

    B) Austin Petersen, former FOX Business correspondent. A young, handsome, pro-life atheist and best known for advocating the right of gay married couples to defend their marijuana patches with machine guns. He refutes the basic Libertarian concept, the non-aggression principle. It's basically the oath of office to join the party, because using force in a society with negligible rules causes it to fail. As strange as that sounds, I predict that he will succeed Gary, unless there is an infusion of displaced Republicans.

Gary Johnson's experience and pragmatism makes him a credible candidate. He's the only one who wanted Bill Weld, who faced strong opposition. Weld couldn't have made it without Johnson promising that Johnson could get 5 % and officially establish the party with the federal government, but only with the help of Weld to lend credibility, fund  raise, and make media contacts.

I assure you, the other candidates would have been dismissed as unqualified lunatic fringe, regardless of how interesting they were on tv.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 12, 2016, 07:28:23 AM
Johnson is being vilified locally based off something about wanting rights for vaping. 

I don't know that TEH CHURCH has ever made an official statement, but general Mormon sentiment (at least in Utah) is Vaping = Smoking, and is thus of satan.

My guess is that Evan McMullen is behind it. There are constant appeals for Gary to take a position on vaping, or the Dakota pipeline, or Fracking, etc, but I don't recall him talking about it. Evan McMullen, who had been cordial,  said Gary wasn't fit to be President after some gaff, and Johnson has simply ignored his existence ever since.   Thing is, McMullen now wants to have a minor party debate to get some attention. It's not going to happen. Gary did that 4 years ago.  This year he's making the case that he's the first choice, not merely first among 3rd parties.

Stein is playing for 5%, but McMullen is only on about 10 ballots, and is simply trying to pick off Utah in a 12th Amendment scenario.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 12, 2016, 08:34:38 AM
I think it's a safe bet that Johnson won't be included in the last debate. For example one of the qualifying polls is at 5%, but that was back on Sep 25th. They simply need not poll again, and that 5 will be a millstone on the average. Time is running out.

Back to a 12th Amendment scenario for Johnson, and I have my doubts about [Sleezebag] being competitive/ I hear Georgia is a potential battleground state. 

4 States decide the presidential election- Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, and North Carolina. [Sleezebag] would have been wise to spend all of his time there, and making the election a referendum on Clinton and the direction of the country.... but [Sleezebag] HAS TO MAKE EVERYTHING ALL ABOUT HIMSELF.  538 has all of those states  Clinton. In fact it projects the EC to go 318.3 to Clinton, 219.6 to [Sleezebag]. CRAP! I have a prediction of a 50-100 EC margin for Hillary on another website. It's almost blown.

I saw some head to head polling today. Johnson beat [Sleezebag], but not Hillary. However, about 20% still don't know who he is.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 12, 2016, 08:46:23 AM
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-10-11/vote-for-gary-johnson-or-jill-stein-if-youre-not-in-a-swing-state (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2016-10-11/vote-for-gary-johnson-or-jill-stein-if-youre-not-in-a-swing-state)

The page is copy resistant, but argues that by voting 3rd party is solidly red or blue states, you can send a strong message" to work together "without changing the outcome, which you can't do anyway in most states.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 12, 2016, 11:02:43 PM
538 has [Sleezebag]'s chances at  16.6 %

An article there discussing historical data compared to now concludes with -

"As with any study of modern elections, we’re limited by sample size. That’s one reason that the FiveThirtyEight models give [Sleezebag] roughly a 15 percent chance of winning instead of zero. But a [Sleezebag] comeback would be like nothing we’ve ever seen before."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 13, 2016, 12:37:39 AM
What do they say about Johnson?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 13, 2016, 12:39:11 AM
Very little, I bet.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 13, 2016, 07:07:05 AM
Little. There is more "uncertainty" with regard to him, and certainty is a concern in their models.

Historically 3rd parties fade. Johnson was defying that trend. Nate said he might have to adjust his model in the future. But he's in the upper single digits in national polls, ( down from as high as 13 )  and Nate's best model still has him well above  the 5% finish  necessary to certify the Libertarians as a minor party.

Johnson's strength is with Millennials, ( who are always under sampled in polls because they don't have land lines.), active duty military ( who are also really hard to poll ), and independents. I believe that for these reasons, he will outperform his polls in the election. Also, I think that campaigning is changing. sure The Greatest Generation, The Silent Generation, and to a lesser extent The Baby Boomers get their news the old fashioned way. But the Xers and Millennials get their info from the web & social media, where it's more inexpensive to reach them.

But 538 works primarily by aggregating state polls, because the Electoral College works that way. Essentially [Sleezebag], Hillary, and McMullen are in a 3 way tie in Utah. Gary is in 4th place with 14% and Jill at 1.

Gary is better in his home state of New Mexico.  This is as good a place as any to say that Utah has 6 EC votes and New Mexico only 5 so if Johnson and McMullen pick them off in a 12th Amendment scenario, it's between the top 3 candidates, so Gary would be shut out.

But [Sleezebag] is still falling. I think his support may bottom at the aprox 34% that thinks he won the last debate. But then again, that's based on people believing his "it was only bragging" defense. I think there will be a lot of women corroborating the groper stories, and the Christians will have to wrestle with it, and it's implications towards [Sleezebag]'s dishonesty.

Did I mention that Silver came out with an analysis Tweet that said that Clinton would win by 458 to 80 in the EC if only women voted? And if only men voted, [Sleezebag] would win by 350 to 188. So the Trumpers started Tweeting that we should repeal the 19th Amendment, which gave women the right to vote. If you're a married man you can imagine how well that went over...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 13, 2016, 07:21:54 AM
You know, as much frustration as I experienced earlier in the year when my state went Never [Sleezebag], but were only joined by Utah and Ohio.... and he secured the nomination anyway. Then we saw people get in line behind him, some of them former Never Trumpers.   

But I'm laughing a lot now at these Republican hokey pokey dancers trying to make up their mind about where the [Sleezebag] train is going. Life is so much easier for Republicans like my wife who think Never means Never. It was a hard decision, but one that only had to be made once.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 13, 2016, 04:14:11 PM
The Consensus over at WPC is that the Republican Party might not survive this.  But then, a Lot of Republicans are likely going to just put their heads into the Sand and wish that it was 4 years later. 

The Congressional Republicans are sweating big time, because it is very likely that a LOT of Republican voters might not even show at the polls (where as, if they knew about Johnson, they would be more confident that some of them would still show up).  And all of them are scrambling to distance themselves from [Sleezebag]...

And, the Democrats whom really don't like Hilary, at this point in time, they see no real alternative and are more voting against [Sleezebag] than they will be voting for Hillary.  Either they don't know about Johnson or think that he isn't qualified, due to the Aleppo BS, were to see him on the stage in the last debate, they would flock to him. 

With these two groups leaning towards him, he would have a very real chance, to not only have the election get thrown to the House, but to actually win outright...

The main focus, if we see no alternative to getting him onto the stage, is to really start working on seriously reforming not only the Primary Processes, for all 50 states, but to revamp the Electoral process.  Only then might we keep something like this from happening again!!

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 13, 2016, 08:28:56 PM
You know, I don't expect Gary to win.  I'm a pessimist at heart. But I do believe that third parties force issues and change the country.

But there are times when I am moved to tears when I believe it's actually possible that I won't be subject to the most hated professional politician in America, or the most egotistical demagogue in America.

Some early voting results-

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2016, 12:50:30 AM
I was phrasing it in my head, yesterday: "He's really running for 'Make Libertarian a real party'.  That ideological approach to governance has merit, and it's worth doing."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2016, 03:02:12 AM
I was phrasing it in my head, yesterday: "He's really running for 'Make Libertarian a real party'.  That ideological approach to governance has merit, and it's worth doing."


At the minimum, yes.

He said he wouldn't have been running without a chance to win the whole thing, but doesn't believe it possible without getting his message out in the debate, and appearing there as an equal option to the Democrat and Republican.

Speaking of the message, this is perhaps the most important one-

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9nYCOCxt3o#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2016, 04:07:28 AM
There hasn't been enough honoring the constitution in this century, that's for sure.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2016, 06:12:22 AM
They are calling this the best speech of the entire campaign. Michelle Obama denounces the behavior of a certain masher who she refuses to name.

There's video as well as a transcript. I'm not cutting and pasting, because I think she is an excellent speaker, and I suggest you listen. 


http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497846667/transcript-michelle-obamas-speech-on-donald-trumps-alleged-treatment-of-women (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497846667/transcript-michelle-obamas-speech-on-donald-trumps-alleged-treatment-of-women)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2016, 06:28:49 AM
-says-done-commission-presidential-debates]http://theweek.com/speedreads/654763/donald-[Sleezebag]-says-done-commission-presidential-debates (http://theweek.com/speedreads/654763/donald-[Sleezebag)

'I'm done'
Donald [Sleezebag] says he is 'done' with the Commission for Presidential Debates
October 12, 2016

Despite saying how excited he was to "beat" Hillary Clinton yet again in their third and final presidential debate, Donald [Sleezebag] seemed to suggest Wednesday that he might skip the Las Vegas face-off next week because of his frustrations with the Commission for Presidential Debates. "I have no respect for that group by the way," [Sleezebag] said Wednesday at a rally in Florida. "I'm done."

He announced to the crowd that he'd "just found" out that the organization's "head guy used to work for Bill Clinton," suggesting the nonpartisan, nonprofit group that oversees the debates is biased. What [Sleezebag] failed to note, however, is that the other co-chair of the commission is a former Republican National Committee chairman.

When The Daily Beast's Olivia Nuzzi asked [Sleezebag] communications director Jason Miller what exactly [Sleezebag] meant by saying he was "done" with the debate commission, Miller insisted [Sleezebag] "looks forward to the third debate." —Becca Stanek

==========================

[Sleezebag] is going nasty/angry.  Insisting it's all lies, blaming the GOP establishment, the biased media, etc.  It's not going to broaden his support, it's playing to his base.      I still think he's setting up [Sleezebag] TV. That's why he has Roger Ailes now.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 14, 2016, 12:34:24 PM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRdNOQcfp-8#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 14, 2016, 04:30:51 PM
For those of us who may be hearing impaired-

-called-deaf-apprentice-marlee-matlin-retarded.html]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/13/donald-[Sleezebag]-called-deaf-apprentice-marlee-matlin-retarded.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/13/donald-[Sleezebag)

The article is cut and paste resistant .

I guess I shouldn't expect anybody that ostentatious to treat others with lesser net worth respectfully.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 14, 2016, 08:58:45 PM
You know, I don't expect Gary to win.  I'm a pessimist at heart. But I do believe that third parties force issues and change the country.

But there are times when I am moved to tears when I believe it's actually possible that I won't be subject to the most hated professional politician in America, or the most egotistical demagogue in America.

Some early voting results-

Can you provide a source link, I had told a few people what about 0.3% of Registered voters in Ohio have already put into the ballots and the immediately wanted the source  (or would not believe it).
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 15, 2016, 12:08:40 AM
I have since learned that it was a mock election. Early voting is open, though.

Let me see if I can find the original source... mostly people talking about it, or repeating it.

I followed a link to the Ohio secretary of State's website, but got a no longer available notice.


There is this-  -and-clinton-in-ohio-early-voting/#axzz4N6XbU5Rm]http://libertyviral.com/breaking-gary-johnson-leads-[Sleezebag]-and-clinton-in-ohio-early-voting/#axzz4N6XbU5Rm (http://libertyviral.com/breaking-gary-johnson-leads-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 15, 2016, 07:50:17 PM
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/301174-kasich-gop-must-evolve-or-it-will-die (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/301174-kasich-gop-must-evolve-or-it-will-die)

Politics

Kasich: GOP must evolve or it will die
The Hill 3 hours ago

Ohio Gov. John Kasich has a grave warning for the GOP. "If the Republican Party does not evolve, the Republican Party is going to die," Kasich said in an interview with Business Insider published Saturday.
"The Republican Party cannot be anti-trade, anti-immigrant, not out there practicing the politics of people, you know, the issues surrounding drug addiction and mental illness and the cost of prescription drugs and healthcare and student debt and all of these things are very personal to people now."

"So I do believe that the party needs to evolve, or I won't be a part of it," he said.

Kasich has been a critic of Republican presidential nominee Donald [Sleezebag], whom he clashed with during the GOP primary.

Last week, Kasich chastised Republicans who have not yet condemned [Sleezebag]'s lewd comments and urged them to "lead by example."
"I don't have any more words," he said.

"I've tried to do the best I can to lead by my actions in an appropriate way without recrimination or anything like that, because I ... I'm a very happy person. I don't think I need to say any more than what I've demonstrated.”

The comments came after the release of a 2005 tape in which [Sleezebag] talks about how he can grope and kiss women without their consent because of his celebrity status.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 15, 2016, 08:14:46 PM
They are calling this the best speech of the entire campaign. Michelle Obama denounces the behavior of a certain masher who she refuses to name.

There's video as well as a transcript. I'm not cutting and pasting, because I think she is an excellent speaker, and I suggest you listen. 


http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497846667/transcript-michelle-obamas-speech-on-donald-trumps-alleged-treatment-of-women (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497846667/transcript-michelle-obamas-speech-on-donald-trumps-alleged-treatment-of-women)


Not that copy resistant...

Quote
    (http://media.npr.org/chrome/news/npr-home.png)  (http://www.npr.org/)   Search                    (http://media.npr.org/chrome/news/npr-home.png)  (http://www.npr.org/)         Politics (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/)   TRANSCRIPT: Michelle Obama's Speech On Donald [Sleezebag]'s Alleged Treatment Of Women   
       October 13, 20164:27 PM ET            C-SPAN via  YouTube    My goodness! You guys are fired up!
Well, let me just say hello everyone. I am so thrilled to be here with you all today in New Hampshire. This is like home to me, and this day — thank you for a beautiful fall day. You just ordered this day up for me, didn't you? It's great to be here.
   -comments-have-shaken-me-to-my-core](http:// Comments Have 'Shaken Me To My Core']http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/13/ap_16287630106455_sq-7e0a9820a76f5dc65f3a7e8067eb3270c44aa692-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497817419/michelle-obama-[Sleezebag)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/) -comments-have-shaken-me-to-my-core] WATCH: Michelle Obama Says [Sleezebag] Comments Have 'Shaken Me To My Core' (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497817419/michelle-obama-[Sleezebag)    Let me start by thanking your fabulous governor, your next U.S. senator, Maggie Hassan. I want to thank her for that lovely introduction. I also want to recognize your Congresswoman Annie McKlane Kuster, who's a dear, dear friend. Your soon-to-be congresswoman once again, Carol Shea Porter — all of whom have been just terrific friends to us. And your Executive Council and candidate for governor, Colin Van Ostern.
And, of course, thanks to all of you for taking the time to be here today.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: We love you!
Thanks so much. That's very sweet of you. I love you guys too. I can't believe it's just a few weeks before Election Day, as we come together to support the next President and Vice President of the United States, Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine! And New Hampshire is going to be important, as always.
So I'm going to get a little serious here, because I think we can all agree that this has been a rough week in an already rough election. This week has been particularly interesting for me personally because it has been a week of profound contrast.
   -calls-assault-allegations-pure-fiction-pledges-evidence-to-dispute](http:// Calls Assault Allegations 'Pure Fiction,' Pledges Evidence To Dispute]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/13/gettyimages-614356874_sq-b401c21c40c8ad1a232791a0c80f52de62a4bf70-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497826933/[Sleezebag)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/) -calls-assault-allegations-pure-fiction-pledges-evidence-to-dispute] [Sleezebag] Calls Assault Allegations 'Pure Fiction,' Pledges Evidence To Dispute (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497826933/[Sleezebag)    See, on Tuesday, at the White House, we celebrated the International Day of the Girl and Let Girls Learn, and it was a wonderful celebration. It was the last event that I'm going to be doing as First Lady for Let Girls Learn. And I had the pleasure of spending hours talking to some of the most amazing young women you will ever meet, young girls here in the U.S. and all around the world. And we talked about their hopes and their dreams. We talked about their aspirations. See, because many of these girls have faced unthinkable obstacles just to attend school, jeopardizing their personal safety, their freedom, risking the rejection of their families and communities.
   (http:// Of Inappropriate Sexual Conduct. Here's The Full List]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/13/gettyimages-611010964_sq-a8488f7709670f22bf4e277e9e26a9deaa782a07-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/)  A List Of The Accusations About [Sleezebag]'s Alleged Inappropriate Sexual Conduct (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct)    So I thought it would be important to remind these young women how valuable and precious they are. I wanted them to understand that the measure of any society is how it treats its women and girls. And I told them that they deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and I told them that they should disregard anyone who demeans or devalues them, and that they should make their voices heard in the world. And I walked away feeling so inspired, just like I'm inspired by all the young people here — and I was so uplifted by these girls. That was Tuesday.
And now, here I am, out on the campaign trail in an election where we have consistently been hearing hurtful, hateful language about women — language that has been painful for so many of us, not just as women, but as parents trying to protect our children and raise them to be caring, respectful adults, and as citizens who think that our nation's leaders should meet basic standards of human decency.
The fact is that in this election, we have a candidate for President of the United States who, over the course of his lifetime and the course of this campaign, has said things about women that are so shocking, so demeaning that I simply will not repeat anything here today. And last week, we saw this candidate actually bragging about sexually assaulting women. And I can't believe that I'm saying that a candidate for President of the United States has bragged about sexually assaulting women.
And I have to tell you that I can't stop thinking about this. It has shaken me to my core in a way that I couldn't have predicted. So while I'd love nothing more than to pretend like this isn't happening, and to come out here and do my normal campaign speech, it would be dishonest and disingenuous to me to just move on to the next thing like this was all just a bad dream.
This is not something that we can ignore. It's not something we can just sweep under the rug as just another disturbing footnote in a sad election season. Because this was not just a "lewd conversation." This wasn't just locker-room banter. This was a powerful individual speaking freely and openly about sexually predatory behavior, and actually bragging about kissing and groping women, using language so obscene that many of us were worried about our children hearing it when we turn on the TV.
And to make matters worse, it now seems very clear that this isn't an isolated incident. It's one of countless examples of how he has treated women his whole life. And I have to tell you that I listen to all of this and I feel it so personally, and I'm sure that many of you do too, particularly the women. The shameful comments about our bodies. The disrespect of our ambitions and intellect. The belief that you can do anything you want to a woman.
It is cruel. It's frightening. And the truth is, it hurts. It hurts. It's like that sick, sinking feeling you get when you're walking down the street minding your own business and some guy yells out vulgar words about your body. Or when you see that guy at work that stands just a little too close, stares a little too long, and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own skin.
   (http://]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/11/gettyimages-613837780_sq-c19855742126418b1bca8a4b00a6a4543e706913-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/11/497487314/clinton-uses-intense-presidential-debate-to-try-to-win-over-young-voters)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/)  'We Are Better Than That': Clinton Sees An Opening In Voters Turned Off By [Sleezebag] (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/11/497487314/clinton-uses-intense-presidential-debate-to-try-to-win-over-young-voters)    It's that feeling of terror and violation that too many women have felt when someone has grabbed them, or forced himself on them and they've said no but he didn't listen — something that we know happens on college campuses and countless other places every single day. It reminds us of stories we heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how, back in their day, the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office, and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough.
We thought all of that was ancient history, didn't we? And so many have worked for so many years to end this kind of violence and abuse and disrespect, but here we are in 2016 and we're hearing these exact same things every day on the campaign trail. We are drowning in it. And all of us are doing what women have always done: We're trying to keep our heads above water, just trying to get through it, trying to pretend like this doesn't really bother us maybe because we think that admitting how much it hurts makes us as women look weak.
Maybe we're afraid to be that vulnerable. Maybe we've grown accustomed to swallowing these emotions and staying quiet, because we've seen that people often won't take our word over his. Or maybe we don't want to believe that there are still people out there who think so little of us as women. Too many are treating this as just another day's headline, as if our outrage is overblown or unwarranted, as if this is normal, just politics as usual.
   -in-crisis](http:// In Crisis]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/09/promo-battleground-20161009-seamus_sq-0b9b6c8e12b5b0d1f4651356222b037b3d12bcad-s500-c85.png) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497277536/npr-battleground-map-[Sleezebag)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/) -in-crisis] NPR Battleground Map: [Sleezebag] In Crisis (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/09/497277536/npr-battleground-map-[Sleezebag)    But, New Hampshire, be clear: This is not normal. This is not politics as usual. This is disgraceful. It is intolerable. And it doesn't matter what party you belong to — Democrat, Republican, independent — no woman deserves to be treated this way. None of us deserves this kind of abuse.
And I know it's a campaign, but this isn't about politics. It's about basic human decency. It's about right and wrong. And we simply cannot endure this, or expose our children to this any longer — not for another minute, and let alone for four years. Now is the time for all of us to stand up and say enough is enough. This has got to stop right now.
Because consider this: If all of this is painful to us as grown women, what do you think this is doing to our children? What message are our little girls hearing about who they should look like, how they should act? What lessons are they learning about their value as professionals, as human beings, about their dreams and aspirations? And how is this affecting men and boys in this country? Because I can tell you that the men in my life do not talk about women like this. And I know that my family is not unusual. And to dismiss this as everyday locker-room talk is an insult to decent men everywhere.
The men that you and I know don't treat women this way. They are loving fathers who are sickened by the thought of their daughters being exposed to this kind of vicious language about women. They are husbands and brothers and sons who don't tolerate women being treated and demeaned and disrespected. And like us, these men are worried about the impact this election is having on our boys who are looking for role models of what it means to be a man.
In fact, someone recently told me a story about their six-year-old son who one day was watching the news — they were watching the news together. And the little boy, out of the blue, said, "I think Hillary Clinton will be President." And his mom said, "Well, why do you say that?" And this little six-year-old said, "Because the other guy called someone a piggy, and," he said, "you cannot be President if you call someone a piggy."
So even a six-year-old knows better. A six-year-old knows that this is not how adults behave. This is not how decent human beings behave. And this is certainly not how someone who wants to be President of the United States behaves.
Because let's be very clear: Strong men — men who are truly role models — don't need to put down women to make themselves feel powerful. People who are truly strong lift others up. People who are truly powerful bring others together. And that is what we need in our next President. We need someone who is a uniting force in this country. We need someone who will heal the wounds that divide us, someone who truly cares about us and our children, someone with strength and compassion to lead this country forward.
And let me tell you, I'm here today because I believe with all of my heart that Hillary Clinton will be that President.
See, we know that Hillary is the right person for the job because we've seen her character and commitment not just in this campaign, but over the course of her entire life. The fact is that Hillary embodies so many of the values that we try so hard to teach our young people. We tell our young people "Work hard in school, get a good education." We encourage them to use that education to help others — which is exactly what Hillary did with her college and law degrees, advocating for kids with disabilities, fighting for children's health care as First Lady, affordable child care in the Senate.
We teach our kids the value of being a team player, which is what Hillary exemplified when she lost the 2008 election and actually agreed to work for her opponent as our Secretary of State — earning sky-high approval ratings serving her country once again.
We also teach our kids that you don't take shortcuts in life, and you strive for meaningful success in whatever job you do. Well, Hillary has been a lawyer, a law professor, First Lady of Arkansas, First Lady of the United States, a U.S. senator, Secretary of State. And she has been successful in every role, gaining more experience and exposure to the presidency than any candidate in our lifetime — more than Barack, more than Bill. And, yes, she happens to be a woman.
   -and-the-testosterone-takeover-of-2016](http:// And The Testosterone Takeover Of 2016]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/09/30/gettyimages-88631771_sq-a650af572e81f4d95c107969d5c3c10afbf92d52-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/01/494249104/[Sleezebag)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/) -and-the-testosterone-takeover-of-2016] [Sleezebag] And The Testosterone Takeover Of 2016 (http://www.npr.org/2016/10/01/494249104/[Sleezebag)      (http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/09/22/gettyimages-538543614_sq-0818b65572cd0f9c8335fefeefdbbf13efe1b9c4-s500-c85.jpg) (http://www.npr.org/2016/09/23/491999689/a-complete-guide-to-early-and-absentee-voting)          Politics  (http://www.npr.org/sections/politics/)  A Complete Guide To Early And Absentee Voting  (http://www.npr.org/2016/09/23/491999689/a-complete-guide-to-early-and-absentee-voting)    And finally, we teach our kids that when you hit challenges in life, you don't give up, you stick with it. Well, during her four years as Secretary of State alone, Hillary has faced her share of challenges. She's traveled to 112 countries, negotiated a ceasefire, a peace agreement, a release of dissidents. She spent 11 hours testifying before a congressional committee. We know that when things get tough, Hillary doesn't complain. She doesn't blame others. She doesn't abandon ship for something easier. No, Hillary Clinton has never quit on anything in her life.
So in Hillary, we have a candidate who has dedicated her life to public service, someone who has waited her turn and helped out while waiting. She is an outstanding mother. She has raised a phenomenal young woman. She is a loving, loyal wife. She's a devoted daughter who cared for her mother until her final days. And if any of us had raised a daughter like Hillary Clinton, we would be so proud. We would be proud.
And regardless of who her opponent might be, no one could be more qualified for this job than Hillary — no one. And in this election, if we turn away from her, if we just stand by and allow her opponent to be elected, then what are we teaching our children about the values they should hold, about the kind of life they should lead? What are we saying?
In our hearts, we all know that if we let Hillary's opponent win this election, then we are sending a clear message to our kids that everything they're seeing and hearing is perfectly okay. We are validating it. We are endorsing it. We're telling our sons that it's okay to humiliate women. We're telling our daughters that this is how they deserve to be treated. We're telling all our kids that bigotry and bullying are perfectly acceptable in the leader of their country. Is that what we want for our children?
And remember, we won't just be setting a bad example for our kids, but for our entire world. Because for so long, America has been a model for countries across the globe, pushing them to educate their girls, insisting that they give more rights to their women. But if we have a President who routinely degrades women, who brags about sexually assaulting women, then how can we maintain our moral authority in the world? How can we continue to be a beacon of freedom and justice and human dignity?
Well, fortunately, New Hampshire, here's the beauty: We have everything we need to stop this madness. You see, while our mothers and grandmothers were often powerless to change their circumstances, today, we as women have all the power we need to determine the outcome of this election.
We have knowledge. We have a voice. We have a vote. And on November the 8th, we as women, we as Americans, we as decent human beings can come together and declare that enough is enough, and we do not tolerate this kind of behavior in this country.
Remember this: In 2012, women's votes were the difference between Barack winning and losing in key swing states, including right here in New Hampshire. So for anyone who might be thinking that your one vote doesn't really matter, or that one person can't really make a difference, consider this: Back in 2012, Barack won New Hampshire by about 40,000 votes, which sounds like a lot. But when you break that number down, the difference between winning and losing this state was only 66 votes per precinct. Just take that in. If 66 people each precinct had gone the other way, Barack would have lost.
So each of you right here today could help swing an entire precinct and win this election for Hillary just by getting yourselves, your families, and your friends and neighbors out to vote. You can do it right here. But you could also help swing an entire precinct for Hillary's opponent with a protest vote or by staying home out of frustration.
Because here's the truth: Either Hillary Clinton or her opponent will be elected president this year. And if you vote for someone other than Hillary, or if you don't vote at all, then you are helping to elect her opponent. And just think about how you will feel if that happens. Imagine waking up on November the 9th and looking into the eyes of your daughter or son, or looking into your own eyes as you stare into the mirror. Imagine how you'll feel if you stayed home, or if you didn't do everything possible to elect Hillary.
We simply cannot let that happen. We cannot allow ourselves to be so disgusted that we just shut off the TV and walk away. And we can't just sit around wringing our hands. Now, we need to recover from our shock and depression and do what women have always done in this country. We need you to roll up your sleeves. We need to get to work. Because remember this: When they go low, we go ...
AUDIENCE: High!
Yes, we do.
And voting ourselves is a great start, but we also have to step up and start organizing. So we need you to make calls and knock on doors and get folks to the polls on Election Day and sign up to volunteer with one of the Hillary campaign folks who are here today just waiting for you to step up.
And, young people and not-so-young people, get on social media. Share your own story of why this election matters, why it should matter for all people of conscience in this country. There is so much at stake in this election.
See, the choice you make Nov. 8 could determine whether we have a President who treats people with respect — or not. A President who will fight for kids, for good schools, for good jobs for our families — or not. A President who thinks that women deserve the right to make our own choices about our bodies and our health — or not. That's just a little bit of what's at stake.
So we cannot afford to be tired or turned off. And we cannot afford to stay home on Election Day. Because on November the 8th, we have the power to show our children that America's greatness comes from recognizing the innate dignity and worth of all our people. On November the 8th, we can show our children that this country is big enough to have a place for us all — men and women, folks of every background and walk of life — and that each of us is a precious part of this great American story, and we are always stronger together.
On Nov. 8, we can show our children that here in America, we reject hatred and fear and in difficult times, we don't discard our highest ideals. No, we rise up to meet them. We rise up to perfect our union. We rise up to defend our blessings of liberty. We rise up to embody the values of equality and opportunity and sacrifice that have always made this country the greatest nation on Earth.
That is who we are. And don't ever let anyone tell you differently. Hope is important. Hope is important for our young people. And we deserve a President who can see those truths in us — a President who can bring us together and bring out the very best in us. Hillary Clinton will be that President.
So for the next 26 days, we need to do everything we can to help her and Tim Kaine win this election. I know I'm going to be doing it. Are you with me? Are you all with me? You ready to roll up your sleeves? Get to work knocking on doors?
All right, let's get to work. Thank you all. God bless.
This transcript was released by the White House Office of the First Lady
 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 15, 2016, 08:16:05 PM
looses some of the formatting, but meh...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 16, 2016, 12:37:07 AM
Well, I didn't try to cut and pace that one simply because I wanted people to hear the First Lady speak, but I'm glad you posted it.

-----------------------

* I haven't spoken much about Evan McMullen lately. He was competitive in Utah in one poll. I didn't think he's get there. Originally my opposition to him was that it wasn't a serious campaign, as he was only on the ballot in ten states, and has placeholder VPs in some of those, as he didn't have a running mate. So I didn't think he was relevant.  Secondly, by the time he was in the race I was preferring Gary Johnson, and it seemed as if  he was stealing Johnson's back-up 12th Amendment strategy. Except that as a Mormon and a consultant to the GOP In the House, he had the inside track. 

But you know, Just as Tom Paine once convinced me that kings have no hereditary right to people, as that equates the people to cattle, I've reaffirmed my idea this year that the parties have no hereditary right to voters. Not because of sex, creed, color, or location. Not because of who their parents voted for. Votes have to be earned.

Even if the 12 Amendment scenario, or any other idea originated with the Johnson campaign or Libertarian Party, just because he has a campaign headquarters in Utah, it doesn't mean that he's entitled to the idea and state exclusively.  Utah has 1 more Electoral College vote than New Mexico, so Johnson would need to pick up at least one other state to win that way. So, no point in blaming McMullen for trying. If it comes to that, I would lobby my Congressman on his behalf, simply because he respects the Constitution more than Clump.

But I do have another reason to oppose the guy, whose credentials are basically- CIA covert operative, Goldman-Sachs guy, and Congressional foreign affairs consultant.     He wants boots on the ground to eradicate ISIS, and he wants a special forces operation to remove Assad.

 I want an end to meddling in the Mid-East and let people change their own regimes.

--------------------------------------------

I've seen some interviews on Republican women loyal to [Sleezebag]. It goes something like this - Yes, the allegations are serious. I'm not saying those women are lying. I am saying that in America we believe in innocent until proven guilty. We need to focus on the issues.

I tend to think that 1) Tell [Sleezebag] to focus on the issues! 2) Speaking of the issues , how is [Sleezebag]'s support of a 35% import tariff different from the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act Republicans blame for The Great Depression? 3) [Sleezebag] is promising jobs for America. If he once promised a contestant on his show a job, but only tried to screw her, isn't that part of his record on job promises and relevant to the campaign.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 16, 2016, 01:26:50 AM
Well, I didn't try to cut and pace that one simply because I wanted people to hear the First Lady speak, but I'm glad you posted it.

-----------------------

* I haven't spoken much about Evan McMullen lately. He was competitive in Utah in one poll. I didn't think he's get there. Originally my opposition to him was that it wasn't a serious campaign, as he was only on the ballot in ten states, and has placeholder VPs in some of those, as he didn't have a running mate. So I didn't think he was relevant.  Secondly, by the time he was in the race I was preferring Gary Johnson, and it seemed as if  he was stealing Johnson's back-up 12th Amendment strategy. Except that as a Mormon and a consultant to the GOP In the House, he had the inside track. 

But you know, Just as Tom Paine once convinced me that kings have no hereditary right to people, as that equates the people to cattle, I've reaffirmed my idea this year that the parties have no hereditary right to voters. Not because of sex, creed, color, or location. Not because of who their parents voted for. Votes have to be earned.

Even if the 12 Amendment scenario, or any other idea originated with the Johnson campaign or Libertarian Party, just because he has a campaign headquarters in Utah, it doesn't mean that he's entitled to the idea and state exclusively.  Utah has 1 more Electoral College vote than New Mexico, so Johnson would need to pick up at least one other state to win that way. So, no point in blaming McMullen for trying. If it comes to that, I would lobby my Congressman on his behalf, simply because he respects the Constitution more than Clump.

But I do have another reason to oppose the guy, whose credentials are basically- CIA covert operative, Goldman-Sachs guy, and Congressional foreign affairs consultant.     He wants boots on the ground to eradicate ISIS, and he wants a special forces operation to remove Assad.

 I want an end to meddling in the Mid-East and let people change their own regimes.

--------------------------------------------

I've seen some interviews on Republican women loyal to T rump. It goes something like this - Yes, the allegations are serious. I'm not saying those women are lying. I am saying that in America we believe in innocent until proven guilty. We need to focus on the issues.

I tend to think that 1) Tell T rump to focus on the issues! 2) Speaking of the issues , how is T rump's support of a 35% import tariff different from the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act Republicans blame for The Great Depression? 3) T rump is promising jobs for America. If he once promised a contestant on his show a job, but only tried to screw her, isn't that part of his record on job promises and relevant to the campaign.

I agree, the other parties SHOULD be wanting to have others up on the stage, so that their pick has more backdrop to better shine and show how much better they are.  But instead, they are trying to ignore the others... 

True, A lot of people look at the example of Perot, where the loser was very possibly cost the race due to losing more votes to him than to the other party.  In some respects, this is almost as bad as the Single party Communist system, where you could not vote for anyone one else.  So now, it's only vote for me or him, vote one or the other.

And conversely, Multiple parties, where coalitions must be formed to rule or govern, also has problems, when you have to maintain that coalition or just can't form one at all.  The two party system has worked, but has also changed over the centuries and the current heads are resisting that much needed change.

But then, what internal politics drove those other changes, too??  Was it due to  shifts in reality or for reasons of political garbage that actually worked, for that time?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 16, 2016, 01:39:21 AM
Well, the 2 party system stopped working a few years ago, as far as passing anything as basic as a budget.  Considering the nominees they've put forward... they still don't work.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 16, 2016, 03:23:29 AM
Did anyone see former RNC chair Michael Steele call the current troubles of the party 'the fruits of Reaganism'?

OMG, I'd given up on seeing any of them see that and admit it in public...  I've been stridently blaming Reagan all along, seriously.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 16, 2016, 06:19:24 AM
No, missed it.  Well, sketch it out for me. It all started when Regan brought Fallwell in, or what?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 16, 2016, 01:08:10 PM
Mylocka told me about it.  I'll ask...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 16, 2016, 01:21:50 PM
And you don't know?

Why the f#ck would "Reaganism have anything to do with the current  crop of republicans??  IMHO, it was after Reagan, during Bush I that really set the stage for today. 

And don't forget whom really ran the White House during Reagan's final Years... Nancy...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 16, 2016, 01:43:09 PM
It's one of those things so self-evident that it's hard to explain - if you don't already see what I find glaringly obvious, I doubt I can help you, and that's why my policy of not arguing about Reagan with people is in its forth decade.

I'll see if I can dig up something on the Steele remarks today...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on October 16, 2016, 08:48:55 PM
Oh.
 Yeah, I'm not seeing it . Must be my worldview or something. Not seeing the forest for the trees. Not that I'm a Regan fan.


Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 19, 2016, 03:14:17 AM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsIX0uF2n-M#)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2016, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: Mylochka
Early Voting -- It makes you feel super!
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14671159_1787386331541875_3479384810435640965_n.jpg?oh=687e6a902f9506fbbac7cde5be095d45&oe=589E63D9)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on October 21, 2016, 08:03:15 PM
Got the mail in packet.  Haven't decided if I'll do that or go to the actual poll. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on October 22, 2016, 03:11:46 AM
I voted in a specific manner for the appropriate candidate that does not include Hillary Clinton or Donald [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on October 24, 2016, 06:41:28 PM
I have voted
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 01, 2016, 12:38:46 PM
I just briefly heard something about [Sleezebag] censoring critical things on websites that he owns.  Did not get it all and not able to research further...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 01, 2016, 05:11:23 PM
Officially [Sleezebag] masks outsold Hillary 2-1.

Anecdotally, I saw 1 Hillary to 0 [Sleezebag]. 

And more Purge than anything.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on November 01, 2016, 08:02:27 PM
Had about 70 kids.  Not a single political mask this year - though princess costumes were the in thing, along with Mario....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 03, 2016, 04:27:47 AM
Quote from: from political discussion thread at WPC
We have a top-tier congressional race here, so the Republican incumbent's signs are everywhere, but it's hard to find anything for any of the presidential candidates or anyone else.  They exist - there are certainly more Clinton bumper stickers as you approach Washington, D.C. - but even those are rare.  At this point, there are easily more yard signs for or against a local tax referendum measure in my county than for all of the presidential candidates combined.

I've noticed that the enthusiasm gap in this election - which already started out generational - has become increasingly generational as things go on.  The people volunteering for anything on either side are overwhelmingly in their 50's, 60's, or 70's (mostly baby boomers, some older folk).  Even otherwise active people on both sides seem to just be sitting this out.  They'll vote (not necessarily for their own party's nominee), but that's it.

I actually agree with the take I saw made in a piece from the Federalist today: contrary to what a lot of people have been trying to sell, this could really be the least important presidential election of our lifetimes.  No matter who wins, they will be loathed by the majority of the country, have no mandate aside from "they weren't the other one", likely facing a hostile congress keeping them from doing anything, and probably won't get re-elected in 2020.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 03, 2016, 12:55:07 PM
Had about 70 kids.  Not a single political mask this year - though princess costumes were the in thing, along with Mario....

My sample size is significantly larger than yours ;)  1000ish

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 03, 2016, 03:07:10 PM
Had about 70 kids.  Not a single political mask this year - though princess costumes were the in thing, along with Mario....

My sample size is significantly larger than yours ;)  1000ish

I wonder why...  ;rolleyes
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 06, 2016, 01:38:09 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14705612_586442148209908_701275580054772821_n.jpg?oh=2b9ab4fc7a80bcf876a9f167b6b9ec7c&oe=58879AC1)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 06, 2016, 06:28:12 PM
In one sense, I have been less politically active since I voted early.  Real Life has been demanding as well.

What I find interesting is that Nate Silver has the race at roughly 65/35 in favor of Clinton, with an average Electoral College victory of 290... BUT in his state by state breakdown, Clinton is basically winning by one state. [Sleezebag] is winning by less than half a % of popular vote in states such as NC, FL, and NV. SO, should [Sleezebag] happen to flip a blue state such as CO, or NH, he would win. PA is a stretch in so short a time, and he hasn't prioritized it.  Admittedly, Clinton's lead in PA , while consistent,  tends to be similar to the margin of error, and the rural conservative voters tend to refuse to answer pollster's questions as being none of their business. So it could be closer than it appears.  Likewise, if Gary could grab NM, he could deny them both. It's that close. Nate says he wishes he had a recent poll from NM.

Speaking of my former home state of PA- The Philadelphia transit workers are on strike. That means it takes a lot longer to go to places, and might be hard to get to and from work and vote in the same day.  Philadelphia is the Democratic stronghold which keeps the state blue in presidential elections, and purple otherwise. Some of the precincts were 100% Obama. It would be ironic if the striking unionized workers suppressed Democrat vote enough to elect [Sleezebag], or save the Senate seat for the Republicans.

McMullin is more likely to take Utah than Gary is New Mexico. ( Presuming PA goes to Hillary), taking Utah would likely deny [Sleezebag], Taking New Mexico would likely deny both Hillary and [Sleezebag],  Of course if both happened, McMullen would be the 3rd candidate in the 12th Amendment scenario, and Gary would be out because Utah has one more Electoral College vote than New Mexico. I would consider McMullin the heavy favorite in The House, because his last job was advisor to the GOP  House caucus. 

So it  should be interesting watching Tuesday night.  At the moment I don't dare to hope that neither Clinton nor [Sleezebag] will be the next president, but I am starting to look forward to all of this ending and either [Sleezebag] or Clinton going away. However.... Nate puts the chances of at least one recount in a swing state at 9.1%

"It ain't over till it's over."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 06, 2016, 08:41:53 PM
I expect [Sleezebag] to raise a stink
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 06, 2016, 11:07:23 PM
Probably, if it's this close.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 07, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Philadelphia transit strike resolved.
Nate moved Nevada into the blue zone by 0.5% of popular vote. Both Florida and North Carolina are red by 0.1% of popular vote. Sounds like a recount to me, but with the FBI cloud lifted, the popular vote nationally might reset to the default +4 to +5% in Clinton's favor, and with it improved prospects of a Senate flip.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 07, 2016, 04:07:47 PM
Every commercial during the Raiders game last night had 2-3 T rump ads here in Utah. 

1 Hillary about every other break. 


[Sleezebag] ads are all now outdated due to the clearing of the FBI case (again), but I doubt that matters to anyone.  He's saying it louder and more often, people will still believe she's under investigation. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 07, 2016, 07:45:51 PM
Every commercial during the Raiders game last night had 2-3 T rump ads here in Utah. 

1 Hillary about every other break. 


T rump ads are all now outdated due to the clearing of the FBI case (again), but I doubt that matters to anyone.  He's saying it louder and more often, people will still believe she's under investigation.

Evan McMullin is  polling mid to upper 20s there. What's the anecdotal evidence of his support? Also, is it unusual for a Morman man in his 40s to still be single?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 07, 2016, 08:06:17 PM
Evan McMullin is  polling mid to upper 20s there. What's the anecdotal evidence of his support?

I don't think he's gotten any big name supporters that I'm aware of.  The only time he's been in the local news was when T rump suggested he may be gay. 

That said, BEARING IN MIND I SIMPLY DO NOT ENGAGE IN POLITICAL DISCOURSE AS A GENERAL RULE.  Much like here, I don't tend to advocate one side or the other, and tend to play neutral observer willing to defend either side from outright lies.  (just there's a lot more of that from one direction this time)  I know of several LDS families that support him, and only know of them due to hEt being one who DOES engage in such discourse. 

I get the feeling that LDS voters are torn with a conservative ticket that is morally against their beliefs, the need to stop Hillary because she's the devil, and a McMullen candidate that is basically throwing your vote away.   


As for being single:  I don't have numbers, but would guess at 90% lds Males being married by 40.  Not unheard of, but not totally normal. 

THAT SAID:  There's not a STIGMA attached to being single in the LEAST.  If he had kids off a couple women, maybe.  IF HE IS GAY AND LDS, he appears to be doing as the religion teaches and abstaining.  There's not exactly the stigma to being GAY, per se, either.  It's acting on those impulses.  You could make the argument he would become quite popular amongst LDS voters if that were the case.  So the whole "look at him, he's not married, must be gay" bashing is comical, really. 

Or maybe I put too much faith in the members on the gay point.  Officially there wouldn't be anything wrong with it unless they started bringing out a line of lovers.  Individuals, however, might find the mere inference enough to sway a vote.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 07, 2016, 08:31:48 PM
Just curious . I don't think he's gay.

Here, Republicans seem to be "Coming home" to [Sleezebag], and finally putting up signs and other forms of public support. Weaker than Romney, but on the rise. I haven't been in the local Democrat strongholds yet this month to gauge that support..
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 07, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
I haven't seen a presidential sign, yet.  I see more Bernie stuff than anything on cars. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 01:20:30 AM
In one sense, I have been less politically active since I voted early.  Real Life has been demanding as well.

What I find interesting is that Nate Silver has the race at roughly 65/35 in favor of Clinton, with an average Electoral College victory of 290... BUT in his state by state breakdown, Clinton is basically winning by one state. T rump is winning by less than half a % of popular vote in states such as NC, FL, and NV. SO, should T rump happen to flip a blue state such as CO, or NH, he would win. PA is a stretch in so short a time, and he hasn't prioritized it.  Admittedly, Clinton's lead in PA , while consistent,  tends to be similar to the margin of error, and the rural conservative voters tend to refuse to answer pollster's questions as being none of their business. So it could be closer than it appears.  Likewise, if Gary could grab NM, he could deny them both. It's that close. Nate says he wishes he had a recent poll from NM.

Speaking of my former home state of PA- The Philadelphia transit workers are on strike. That means it takes a lot longer to go to places, and might be hard to get to and from work and vote in the same day.  Philadelphia is the Democratic stronghold which keeps the state blue in presidential elections, and purple otherwise. Some of the precincts were 100% Obama. It would be ironic if the striking unionized workers suppressed Democrat vote enough to elect T rump, or save the Senate seat for the Republicans.

McMullin is more likely to take Utah than Gary is New Mexico. ( Presuming PA goes to Hillary), taking Utah would likely deny T rump, Taking New Mexico would likely deny both Hillary and T rump,  Of course if both happened, McMullen would be the 3rd candidate in the 12th Amendment scenario, and Gary would be out because Utah has one more Electoral College vote than New Mexico. I would consider McMullin the heavy favorite in The House, because his last job was advisor to the GOP  House caucus. 

So it  should be interesting watching Tuesday night.  At the moment I don't dare to hope that neither Clinton nor T rump will be the next president, but I am starting to look forward to all of this ending and either T rump or Clinton going away. However.... Nate puts the chances of at least one recount in a swing state at 9.1%

"It ain't over till it's over."

Don't forget that Maine and Nebraska both have proportional Electoral ballots, so could bring Gary up more than McMullen...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 01:23:55 AM
I was out today at VA and in rush hour traffic back, did not see a single bumper sticker.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 01:54:34 AM
Come to think of it, we were driving around today, and I didn't see a single sticker, either.

Nate Silver now has NH, NV, FL, and NC a light blue. Ohio still has a [Sleezebag] lead, but it's dwindled to 1.7% Apparently, the FBI lifting the cloud over Hilllary has  reversed her fortunes. Final national polls mostly have her at 4%, so I guess things are reverting to their baseline of Clinton up 4.5%
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 02:13:20 AM
Well, here's a nice way to end the campaign phase. This is an ad made from a rally speech by Gary's daughter, Seah.  I included it in part, because she's talking about keeping bees. Start about the 1 minute mark.

http://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/posts/10153475558849364?notif_t=notify_me_page&notif_id=1478458807242352 (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/posts/10153475558849364?notif_t=notify_me_page&notif_id=1478458807242352)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 08, 2016, 04:02:09 AM
SO looking forward to not having to see a certain someone on my Facebook timeline constantly after tomorrow...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 04:05:03 AM
Prediction time guys...

On a scale of one to ten, how much of a stink and how long will he draw out that stink, do you think that [Sleezebag] will make of the results?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 05:13:27 AM
Prediction time guys...

On a scale of one to ten, how much of a stink and how long will he draw out that stink, do you think that T rump will make of the results?

I have a feeling that his stink will be countered by the FBI debacle timed to hurt Hillary's early vote. Call it a 3. I don't think he will properly concede as such. Probably make allusions into having his people look into it. Demand  a recount somewhere. He's already laid the groundwork rhetorically in PA.  As for duration,  somehow I think that he will maintain that he was robbed the rest of his life, ( or at least so long as he continues to appear on TV ), because he's a WINNER.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 05:57:56 AM
Prediction time guys...

On a scale of one to ten, how much of a stink and how long will he draw out that stink, do you think that T rump will make of the results?

I have a feeling that his stink will be countered by the FBI debacle timed to hurt Hillary's early vote. Call it a 3. I don't think he will properly concede as such. Probably make allusions into having his people look into it. Demand  a recount somewhere. He's already laid the groundwork rhetorically in PA.  As for duration,  somehow I think that he will maintain that he was robbed the rest of his life, ( or at least so long as he continues to appear on TV ), because he's a WINNER.

That BS in PA is why I am glad that we aren't in the era of Brown shirts... And smacked of him wanting it to be as such (or thinking that it would be, since he alluded to it... )
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 06:09:40 AM
There will be three (min) States that she will have a very narrow margin that he will claim some voter fraud, taking them all the way to supreme court, at least once.  The economic fallout from the uncertainty will cause the still  (great) recession weakened economy to go into another Recession, Which [Sleezebag] will later blaim on Hillary, when he makes his 2020 bid...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 06:14:52 AM
Well, an Authoritarian is as an Authoritarian does.

We sort of knew that when he said that our military will torture if he tells them to. PA election laws may have changed since I was involved in the 70s/80s/90s, but poll watchers were limited to one per party ( and I think that one was supposed to be a precinct resident. ) , and one per candidate. I think that the judge of elections in each precinct is empowered to evict them, or summon the police if they refuse. Judge of elections is the title of the on site chief supervisor of each polling place, an elected position.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 01:52:01 PM
Well, here's a nice way to end the campaign phase. This is an ad made from a rally speech by Gary's daughter, Seah.  I included it in part, because she's talking about keeping bees. Start about the 1 minute mark.

Wont play...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 01:53:40 PM
From Aro:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a2j3mT06dQl_Ou8EYAG1noRQosPyeGqr1Rv_pfCv_tgs88x9ORvG-rKXJp_NwRdJ5jm0QZOW1jgOPeEjYlthe2dek8aZWrcORGnx37vjZ-oS45bU70bLYwe8lixol3rfB_4GaqkmY0HrjvFptb8zMRyGHUTzlz7kG31QR8Q1qXhZvxQPn2z6qVIiwlQYQi4tLlFtRtWhN6GDKjHvF6ZMiaTQ17TaVBNY6TE6qCpFMDOfkEzjyN6y-eZ3xBXu0D32I6MZCOCfQFrsKVpusPc8NggSmXYDspC7r8ksURlvDmGp7-421e9dRsiFjMxZwJB4yp3OiJP8BnhA5FeXJ10NUERxs2rbb1M4U92MAmSCxKRjIIMFGCG261zQLV0HeCrLxo_4EK38NTB28f-mC2tzyayU-q-h9XZmdIm12slOF1jq5WIRJMrW2uDO-ySUKty7XJYpSMqB9pUHRZ-JS8Su2NEuVxfv1LiJY92pyh1aJo5MoQKizedgH3apFWdDAwai2QXsdsyCWTrbJSxKCSkR-U43GRJzJgbO5p2PLVhXJ1_iNoeMN4HNjrcBRioJNNZuZ_eNSwKpR3PTo8ghdn_HsjCy1KdpnDZN31_vLq4nO_vaqlRpTQ=w960-h507-no)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 02:45:49 PM
What's the translation?

Had a MrWIA sighting at Poly yesterday.  I PM'ed him to head over to WPC to say hi and maybe join in the upcoming SPDG...  let Aro know that he's welcome, too...

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 08, 2016, 02:47:36 PM
And the stink level that he will raise will be from 6 to 7 on scale of 10...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 03:02:36 PM
What's the translation?

Had a MrWIA sighting at Poly yesterday.  I PM'ed him to head over to WPC to say hi and maybe join in the upcoming SPDG...  let Aro know that he's welcome, too...



Essentially asking if there's a difference, and which is worse.  With Hillary saying [Sleezebag]'s a woman beater, and [Sleezebag] saying he's only a bad choice for Mexico. 

If Aro had any inclination for Civ, I'd invite him.  Like me, he's just plain not that interested.  We keep in contact over our art.  (Ironically it's NOT his political cartooning art either, rather his horn playing most didn't know about.) 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 03:04:00 PM
Not sure how this ended up in my clown feed, but there you go.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 05:19:10 PM
Well, here's a nice way to end the campaign phase. This is an ad made from a rally speech by Gary's daughter, Seah.  I included it in part, because she's talking about keeping bees. Start about the 1 minute mark.

Wont play...

https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/ (https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/)

For whatever reason, this one only appears to be on Facebook, not YouTube. With all of the new entries, it's down around the 18th or 20th topic. Lots of scrolling. You will at least get to see footage of bees dancing.

"Gary Johnson
November 6 at 11:01am ·
My daughter explains why she thinks I would make a good President."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 06:58:43 PM
No, I get to facebook and that video won't play.  His others do.  Probably a filter thing here. 

Edit, sorry about the language there BU.  My personal curse filter is broken lately. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 08, 2016, 07:12:24 PM
[shrugs]  I wish stuff like that wouldn't happen, but you kinda have to make a habit of it to get my back up...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 09:25:47 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDQZh-dawU#)

There! Same deal, the bees are a minute in.
I wish political ads could be positive like this, and that people could feel this way about their candidate of choice.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 09:47:25 PM
That was corny. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 09:53:25 PM
So, I go vote in 45 minutes. 

Options under consideration:

Evil I know.  Pro: Outside chance of flipping Utah from Red.  Con:  Evil. 
Johnson:  Pro:  Not evil.  Con: Unlikely to mean a damn thing in Utah, not enthusiastic about him. 
McMullen: Pro: Not evil.  Con: Who?  Don't really know enough about him. 
Abstain. 

Go ahead, pitch me your best. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 11:13:25 PM
Standing in line, a bee art exhibit in display.  A more religious type might consider that a sign.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 08, 2016, 11:26:38 PM
Let's see. McMullen.

He's a NeoCon. A former middle Eastern operative for the C.I.A., and a congressional advisor for foreign affairs to the House GOP.   He is a moral Mormon and does respect the Constitution, so I'd agree he's not evil. He'd probably be good for your employer if he were president.

McMullen taking Utah would likely deny [Sleezebag] the presidency. Hillary would win, unless [Sleezebag] flipped a big state and won, or Johnson also won New Mexico to block Hillary.  Since Utah has one more congressional district than New Mexico, McMullen would be the 3rd candidate, and the favorite in the 12th Amendment scenario/ House election

Every vote in every state for Johnson  counts towards the 5% threshold for the official establishment of the Libertarians as a minor party. I think that the two party system is a race to the bottom. With more parties, you don't win by simply trashing your opponent and his party.  It would force a discussion of issues.

Johnson is uncommonly honest, sensible and down to Earth. He's a good decision maker and chess player, even if he's not a trivial pursuit champion. Moreover , he isn't polarizing and won't go on trial after the election. He always considers the Constitution and the entire Bill of Rights. Anybody who votes for him can be proud of him, even if they disagree with all of his policies.

I won't make a case for Clump.

Jill Stein a Harvard educated medical doctor  is very clever, and the closest thing to Sanders on the ballot.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 08, 2016, 11:38:09 PM
Seen at least 20 people get out of line and leave.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 12:34:34 AM
Well that was annoying. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on November 09, 2016, 01:44:45 AM
Yep.  Now, more annoying as the results start to slither in.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 09, 2016, 02:15:13 AM
Very close race, PBS atm has T-129; C-104
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 09, 2016, 03:08:14 AM
Hillary gets NM.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 09, 2016, 05:43:34 AM
Just watched Johnson's concession speech. It was more positive and upbeat than any I can recall. I've decided to be positive about this election, regardless.

*****************
Got interrupted

***************

Anyway, have been watching MSNBC since September. Tonight there is "Such weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth" to quote Moby Dick.

Me, I just cracked a cork to toast the disappearance from my television of Hillary Clinton. If I were her, I'd be in Canada tonight and catch a flight elsewhere from there. If it turns out that she actually wins, she can return. Otherwise, I think that 1) Build the Wall, 2) Lock her up, and 3) nominating Supreme Court justices from that list he got from his sister the judge,  that [Sleezebag] never read are the only things you can expect him to do by way of a mandate.

We took some cash out of the stock market last month, on the outside chance of this. So, not worrying, even thought the "circuit breaker" in overnight futures trading on the DOW. I wonder how many Mexicans will go home for Christmas and stay....

My election experience is limited to PA and WI. In both of these states, the longer the count goes, the more it favors the GOP. I think it unlikely that Hillary will win both, and she needs to. That's why I'm presuming a [Sleezebag] upset. 



Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 08:38:03 AM
And just like that, Halloween mask sales become the only reliable predictor.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 09, 2016, 08:59:45 AM
And just like that, Halloween mask sales become the only reliable predictor.

laughing smiley!

Sure beats polls!
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 12:06:46 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLak5i6BJZM#)

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E#)
Some NSFW language
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 02:56:00 PM
Everyone around here is practically singing "ding dong the witch is dead" without realizing they put OZ in charge. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2016, 03:36:36 PM
...See my previous post...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 04:09:26 PM
But the people HERE are supposed to be edumicated.  They has papers and things. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
Clevon is what he is.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 09, 2016, 05:11:39 PM
A mandate to keeping Hillary out of the White House...  but wait, that means...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2016, 05:21:14 PM
Now I see the funny side. Now I'm always smiling!  :wave:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Misanthrope on November 09, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
Honestly, I am SOOooo disappointed with the elections. I was honestly expecting it to have far more comedic value.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2016, 09:43:25 PM
So was Uno.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 09, 2016, 09:46:01 PM
It now has gallows humor, I've adjusted. 



There's the off chance he was just stirring things as a way to get elected and he'll be great, too.   :announce:
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 09, 2016, 10:50:45 PM
...I would rate the probability of that to be non-zero...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 10, 2016, 01:24:45 AM
I got a Twitter account to hear Gary answer debate questions live.

Speaking of gallows humor, I do find some funny stuff on there , such as-

"If a clown invited me into the woods...I'd go."
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 10, 2016, 04:48:59 AM
I can't believe people are protesting...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 10, 2016, 07:46:53 AM
I can't believe people are protesting...

Marching is good exercise. Let them vent, I say.

I'm glad the shoe wasn't on the other foot- Imagine if the [Sleezebag] supporters had the support of the media, the money, the staff, were told they were ahead in the preponderance of polls, AND THEN, on the night of their glorious triumph, they find that they win the popular vote but are somehow denied the historic presidency because of the electoral college surprise. They'd be marching too, but they'd be carrying.

I'm a bit skeptical of polling today, but I'd be curious as to how many of those protestors expended an equal time or effort to get Hillary elected.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rextraos on November 10, 2016, 03:56:53 PM
I think Donald [Sleezebag] becoming president is the most influential political event ever to happen in my 20 years on earth. As an Australian, I don't get to vote and yet I'm not ignorant enough to ignore the ongoing events worldwide, especially the election for the leader of the most powerful country on earth that is America which has power and influence in other countries. For all we know, [Sleezebag] could be the start of world war three, who knows with all the strained relationships with other countries America has right now. He already said nasty remarks on concern to NATO.

Not that I'm saying I'd rather Hilliary Clinton, it's hard to say who's worse when it comes to comparing them. If only Gray Johnson (I agree with him on key issues but he's a bit far right and mad on some issues) or Jill Stien (My second pick choice after Bernie Sanders, her agendas and policies are well-thought out and build on top of what Bernie has planned for and established) got 5% of the vote so they could participate in the 2020 election debates and get a $10 million funding to do so.

To summarize I am truly shocked that Americans were so enraged and grieved at the corrupted shambles in which that they call their government that they felt they had little choice but to elect [Sleezebag]. Hopefully, he doesn't screw up and kill us all.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 10, 2016, 05:12:43 PM
Quote

Reason.com Free Minds & Free Markets - TRENDING TOPICS - HIT & RUN BLOG

Where the Third-Party Candidates Were Strongest. Which states gave Gary Johnson his best results? Jill Stein? Evan McMullin? And who did those candidates help more, [Sleezebag] or Clinton?

Jesse Walker|Nov. 9, 2016 11:55 am



Gary Johnson Yesterday's presidential election produced the strongest showing in 20 years for third-party and independent candidates. Not all the ballots have been tallied yet, so some of the numbers below may be slightly off from the final totals. But at this point all the alternative candidates put together have received more than 5 percent of the popular vote. The leader of the second-tier pack, Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party, has (at this point in the counting) 4,008,564 votes, or 3.22 percent of the national total. That's much less than he was polling a couple months ago, but it's far better than any other presidential result in the party's 45-year history. It's also better than any other alternative candidate since Ross Perot's campaigns of 1992 and '96.

On the state level, we didn't see some of the more extraordinary possibilities that had been tossed around before Tuesday. (No, Evan McMullin did not carry Utah.) But the second-tier candidates did do stronger in some places than others, giving us a map—several maps—of where our binary party system is doing the poorest job of representing the full spectrum of political opinion. Here's how the third-, fourth-, and fifth-place finishers fared across the country:

Gary Johnson. Not surprisingly, Johnson did best in New Mexico, the state where he was governor from 1995 to 2003: He got 9.4 percent of the vote there (and in some counties hit double digits). He got 5 percent or more in seven other states as well: North Dakota (6.3 percent), traditionally third-party-friendly Alaska (5.9), Oklahoma (5.7), South Dakota (5.6), Montana (5.5), Wyoming (5.3), and Maine (5.1).

He got at least 1 percent of the vote everywhere. His weakest showing was in Mississippi, where just 1.2 percent of the voters backed him. That's still more than double his total there in 2012.

created at mapchart.net

Jill Stein. As I write, Jill Stein of the Green Party has 1,191,269 votes, or about .96 percent of the national total. That's the Greens' best showing since Ralph Nader's campaign in 2000. Stein's highest percentage on the state level came in Hawaii, where she collected 2.9 percent of the ballots. She also managed to top 2 percent in Oregon (2.4 percent), Vermont (2.3), and—more surprisingly—Kansas (2.0). She did not outpoll Johnson in any state.

created at mapchart.net

Evan McMullin. McMullin, a conservative running as an independent, was on the ballot in only 11 states, so it's not surprising that he finished behind Johnson and Stein. (His total currently stands at 441,277 votes nationally, or .36 percent.) But he did very well in one of those states: He was a strong third in his native Utah, collecting 20.9 percent of the vote and finishing second in several counties. He also managed to get 6.9 percent in Idaho, the only other state where he beat Johnson. He didn't get as much as 2 percent anywhere else, though he managed to clear the 1 percent mark in Minnesota (1.8 percent), Virginia (1.6), Arkansas (1.2), Kentucky (1.2), and South Carolina (1.0). It is no coincidence that McMullin did best in the two states with the country's highest Mormon populations.

The only other candidate who managed to get more than 1 percent of the vote in any states was Darrell Castle of the paleoconservative Constitution Party, who is currently pulling 1.1 percent in Alaska and South Dakota and, more surprisingly, has earned 1 percent in Hawaii. In Nevada, where voters have the option of voting for None of the Above, that option pulled 2.6 percent.

Did these candidates tip any states from Clinton to [Sleezebag]? I've already heard some ruminations to that effect from angry Democrats ready to replay their scripts from 2000, but it's a hard case to make. Johnson initially drew both disaffected Democrats and disaffected Republicans, but toward the end of the race the polls suggested that he was pulling much more from the [Sleezebag] camp. (Of course, I don't blame you if you don't feel like trusting any polls right now.) And if these three candidates weren't on any ballots, a significant share of their supporters would have simply stayed home rather than vote for Clinton or [Sleezebag].

Indeed, a lot of people stayed home anyway. Turnout in general was way down this year, and [Sleezebag] is currently on track to finish with a lower raw vote total than either Mitt Romney or John McCain. Let me repeat that, just to drive home how unpopular the major-party candidates were this year: The man who won this election got fewer votes than the men who lost the last two elections. Even though the country's population has grown, and either though they both lost pretty badly.

All that said, there were several states where the alternative candidates collected enough votes to cover the Clinton/[Sleezebag] spread. Six of those were won by [Sleezebag]—and seven were won by Clinton. Here's a rundown:

Arizona: [Sleezebag] beat Clinton by four points; Johnson and Stein between them collected 5 percent. But most of that went to Johnson (3.8 percent), so it's unclear whether [Sleezebag] or Clinton was hurt more by the other options on the ballot.

Colorado: Clinton won by 2.2 percent. Voters also gave 4.9 percent to Johnson, 1.2 percent to Stein, 1 percent to McMullin, and nearly 1 percent more to a collection of third-tier candidates. If Johnson was pulling more Republicans than Dems in Colorado, he may have given this one to Clinton.

Florida: [Sleezebag] eked out a win by just 1.4 percent here. Johnson, Stein, Castle, and Rocky De La Fuente of the Reform Party between them collected 3.2 percent. Enough to cover the spread, but how many of those votes would have otherwise gone to Clinton? Stein got only .7 percent.

Maine: Clinton won this by three percentage points, and Johnson collected 5.1 percent, so there's a chance he tipped the state to the Democrats. (Or part of the state, anyway: [Sleezebag] carried Maine's second congressional district, so he is being awarded one of the state's electoral votes.)

Michigan: [Sleezebag] won this ordinarily blue state by about .3 percent, and Stein got 1.1 percent, so Democrats who feel all Green votes are rightfully theirs are going to be seething at her over this one. Meanwhile, Johnson got 3.6 percent.

Minnesota: Clinton won by 1.4 percent. McMullin got 1.8 percent. How many of those voters would have gone for [Sleezebag] otherwise, and how many would have stayed home? Beats me, but between that and the other minor-candidate results—Johnson got 3.4 percent and Stein got 1.3—this looks like a state where the alternatives may have done more to help Clinton than to hurt her.

Nevada: Clinton won by 2.4 percent; Johnson got 3.3 percent. And Castle picked up half a point too.

New Hampshire: Another narrow Clinton win—just a tenth of a percentage point—and another relatively strong showing for Johnson, who collected 4.1 percent.

New Mexico: Clinton won this handily, by 8.3 percent. But Johnson, remember, got 9.3 percent. Then again, he has a history of picking up Democratic votes in New Mexico—he was reelected easily in his days as governor, despite the predominantly Democratic electorate—so it'd be hard to make the case that he played spoiler.

Pennsylvania: [Sleezebag] won by about 1.1 percent. Stein's .8 percent isn't enough to cover that spread; Johnson's 2.4 percent is, but again we don't know whether he was drawing more from [Sleezebag] or Clinton.

Utah: [Sleezebag] beat Clinton here by about 17 percent. Sounds like a pretty big victory, but it's still less than McMullin's 20.9 percent. In this case you could make the case that the real spoiler was Clinton: If she weren't on the ballot, nearly all of her supporters surely would have preferred McMullin to [Sleezebag], perhaps allowing the independent to deny the Republican six electoral votes.

Virginia: Clinton won by 4.7 percent. Johnson, McMullin, and Stein got 3, 1.6, and .7 percent, respectively. So the third-party candidates covered the spread if you include the Green, but the two candidates who were more likely to pull from [Sleezebag] didn't have quite enough to cover it on their own.

Wisconsin: Here, on the other hand, Stein's 1.1 percent is just enough to bridge the margin 1-percent margin between the winning [Sleezebag] and the losing Clinton. But then what does Johnson's 3.4 percent do to the results—or, for that matter, the nearly half a percentage point that Castle won while running to [Sleezebag]'s right?

Damned if I know. I will say this, though: If the Democrats find themselves searching for scapegoats by parsing the Green and Constitution parties' totals rather than asking how they managed to nominate a candidate so weak that Wisconsin was in play, they really aren't asking the right questions.

Photo Credit: mapchart.net

I found these two paragraphs very telling...

Quote

Indeed, a lot of people stayed home anyway. Turnout in general was way down this year, and [Sleezebag] is currently on track to finish with a lower raw vote total than either Mitt Romney or John McCain. Let me repeat that, just to drive home how unpopular the major-party candidates were this year: The man who won this election got fewer votes than the men who lost the last two elections. Even though the country's population has grown, and either though they both lost pretty badly.


[SNIP]

Damned if I know. I will say this, though: If the Democrats find themselves searching for scapegoats by parsing the Green and Constitution parties' totals rather than asking how they managed to nominate a candidate so weak that Wisconsin was in play, they really aren't asking the right questions.

Photo Credit: mapchart.net
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 10, 2016, 07:07:00 PM
Nice post ET, those last two paragraphs are particularly profound. I'd been insiting all year that WI wasn't a battleground state, that even at maximum effort and turnout efficiency, the GOP doesn't have enough bodies to beat the Democrats in a presidential election year.

The sitting GOP senator was presumed toast, but he got 70K more votes than [Sleezebag]. I think Nate Silver had his chances of re-election in the low 30's.

So, I was proven wrong. Or Hillary choked. Or both.

Gary even beat Jill in the District of Columbia, too.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: ColdWizard on November 10, 2016, 07:21:16 PM
Some of the "all [Sleezebag] voters are racist, sexist, misogynist, whatever-ist/-phobe" and "voting for a third party was a vote for [Sleezebag]" reaction I'm seeing shows me that people don't even care what the point of a [Sleezebag] vote may be. Which is the same dismissive attitude that helped him win. Because I'm pretty sure some of the states that voted for Obama in 2012, that Sanders won in the primaries, and then flipped to [Sleezebag] aren't chock-full of those bad -ists/-phobes.

But easier to blame others than attempt to understand why their dumpster fire of a candidate lost to the other dumpster fire of a candidate.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 11, 2016, 04:53:49 AM
In case you haven't seen this-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donna-brazile-democratic-national-committee_us_5824cb95e4b0ddd4fe7954e8)

"POLITICS
DNC Staffer Screams At Donna Brazile For Helping Elect Donald [Sleezebag]
Democrats’ nerves are raw in Washington after Tuesday’s stunning loss.
 11/10/2016 04:16 pm ET | Updated 5 hours ago
Jennifer Bendery   
White House and Congressional Reporter, The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON ― On Thursday, Democratic Party officials held their first staff meeting since Hillary Clinton’s stunning loss to Donald [Sleezebag] in the presidential race. It didn’t go well.
Donna Brazile, the interim leader of the Democratic National Committee, was giving what one attendee described as “a rip-roaring speech” to about 150 employees, about the need to have hope for wins going forward, when a staffer identified only as Zach stood up with a question.
“Why should we trust you as chair to lead us through this?” he asked, according to two people in the room. “You backed a flawed candidate, and your friend [former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz] plotted through this to support your own gain and yourself.”
Some DNC staffers started to boo and some told him to sit down. Brazile began to answer, but Zach had more to say.
“You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for [Sleezebag]’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”
Zach gathered his things and began to walk out. When Brazile called after him, asking where he was going, he told her to go outside and “tell people there” why she should be leading the party.
Two DNC staffers confirmed the exchange.
Asked for comment, Brazile said in an email, “As you can imagine, the individual involved is a member of the staff and I personally do not wish to discuss our internal meetings.”
A DNC spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.
Brazile, a seasoned Democratic strategist, is the DNC’s interim chair until March 2017, when party officials hold a full DNC meeting to elect a new chair. Brazile has been filling in since July, when then-chair Wasserman Schultz stepped down after WikiLeaks released internal DNC emails showing party officials trying to help Clinton win the Democratic primary.
Brazile ran into her own bit of trouble in October when Wikileaks released emails showing that, in her role as a CNN strategist, she shared questions for CNN-sponsored candidate events in advance with friends on Clinton’s campaign.

Neither of the DNC staffers who spoke to HuffPost knew Zach’s last name, or much about him. They noted that he wasn’t alone in his sentiments. Some in the room nodded as he spoke, they said, and after he left, some talked about him being right on some points (perhaps not his claims about imminent death by climate change).
A third attendee told HuffPost that, despite Zach’s blow-up, there was “overwhelming” support for Brazile in the room. Her motivational words “had some staffers in tears,” per this attendee, and Brazile spoke to Zach’s concerns after he left.
“If he had stayed, he would have heard that,” this person said.
Brazile could move to stay on as chair after March, but Thursday’s meeting shows at least some party officials want fresh blood at the top.
“The party is at a crossroads. They have been using the same playbook for decades, and now, they won’t let anyone else come in and change it up,” said one former longtime DNC staffer, who requested anonymity to speak freely. “The fact that Democrats just sat through a devastating defeat and now have to trust the leadership that not only contributed to Clinton’s loss, but the crushing 2014 midterm losses, well, what do they expect?”

**********************
Libertarian National Committee Chairman Nicholas Sarwark has been interviewing and tweeting in the aftermath. Mostly responses to questions and criticisms from the Democrats. Among them -

* They ( Democrats ) had 16 years to come up with a less  (word for crappy ) candidate.

* Your tears are delicious and your parties will die.

* If you want to succeed, learn from failure.
If you want to fail, blame others for failure.

* A  retweet from WikiLeaks-

[Remember how you legalized
Assassinating anyone
NSA mass spying
Prosecuting publishers
CIA drones everywhere

It's all Trumps in 71 days ]

 * If tripling our record and covering the spread in the battlegrounds is an epic fail, I'm going to work for more epic fails in the future.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rextraos on November 11, 2016, 08:02:09 AM
Who do you think is gonna run for president in 2020?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 11, 2016, 06:07:17 PM
Who do you think is gonna run for president in 2020?

Democrats normally draw from the senate. Tim Kaine? Elizabeth Warren? Bernie Sanders?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 13, 2016, 11:10:37 PM
An analysis of Donald T rump’s election win and the prospects for his presidency
NSFW
https://medium.com/@SnoozeInBrief/an-analysis-of-donald-trumps-election-win-and-the-prospects-for-his-presidency-f6a87eef6d70#.ajqt8cplk
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 13, 2016, 11:57:40 PM
An analysis of Donald T rump’s election win and the prospects for his presidency
NSFW
https://medium.com/@SnoozeInBrief/an-analysis-of-donald-trumps-election-win-and-the-prospects-for-his-presidency-f6a87eef6d70#.ajqt8cplk

You frown on some colorful language that is not really too bad and not entirely spelled out, but you go and post a link to that?? 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 14, 2016, 12:08:02 AM
Yes.  It had a NSFW label.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 14, 2016, 05:19:11 AM
Is anybody pondering what new uses the new president might find for the powers of surveillance, detention and assassination freely given to that guy who won the Nobel Peace Prize for Potential?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Kirov on November 14, 2016, 11:46:56 AM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs#)

Title: This is who is to blame for [Sleezebag].
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 14, 2016, 02:46:44 PM
Is anybody pondering what new uses the new president might find for the powers of surveillance, detention and assassination freely given to that guy who won the Nobel Peace Prize for Potential?
Excuse me - freely given to his (non-entity) predecessor...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 14, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Is anybody pondering what new uses the new president might find for the powers of surveillance, detention and assassination freely given to that guy who won the Nobel Peace Prize for Potential?
Excuse me - freely given to his (non-entity) predecessor...

Uh, yeah. I guess said powers  are already established and evolving. Obama has cut Gitmo down to 60 prisoners, but it survives.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 15, 2016, 06:12:34 AM
Oh dear.

 In [Sleezebag] transition team news, Mike Pence took over for Chris Christie as transition team chair. Not bad, Christie has his own troubles, and Pence was a Congressman for 12 years. Judging what I'm hearing from various news sources and watching Obama's press conference today, I think that the scope of the presidency is a little overwhelming for [Sleezebag], which is understandable since he has no qualifying experience. They weren't grasping that the White House workers are leaving, and that they have 4,000 jobs to fill.

What makes matters worse, though, is that Pence is to continue as governor until Jan 9th. On top of that he's in some kind of court battle to seal his records until he's dead or something.

SO, [Sleezebag]'s main insider is going to be out of state more often than not for the rest of the year. It makes me nauseous. I really want the president elect to succeed, much the same as I want my pilots and drivers to have a safe trip. If it were me and I was in over my head I would call Jeb Bush and tell him I need his help and advice to get organized and up to speed.

Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 15, 2016, 07:00:16 AM
And another thing. Hillary is rationalizing her defeat with the idea that it was all FBI Director Comey's fault. Well, it's gotta be hard to accept that tens of millions of people dislike you.

I watched a woman tonight explain it all away with Comey, Misogony, and the Russian conspiracy. That's the only way you could bring down anyone as awesome as candidate Hillary with an equally awesome organization.

Somehow this made me smile, thinking that the Democrats are doomed to remain in political purgatory for an extended period. It was all beyond their control. Not their fault that the GOP turned out more voters with less money in the big battleground states. Not their fault that Hillary tried to cheat Bernie in the primaries and silence his delegates at the convention. Not their fault that Hillary didn't deal with the e-mails head on a year ago. Not their fault that she lied & obfuscated when she did talk about it. Not their fault that they chose the only candidate who could unite the fractured Republicans. Not their fault that they got caught colluding with the press, or getting debate questions ahead of time.
Not their fault that the Democratic Party is no longer the pro-peace party. Not their fault Millennials didn't trust them.

Yeah. Not their fault. Nothing they could have done differently. I'm sure that Gary and Jill can shoulder the rest of the blame.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 15, 2016, 12:27:35 PM
Quote
Not their fault that Hillary didn't deal with the e-mails head on a year ago.

And how do you suggest she handle that any differently?  Seriously. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 15, 2016, 04:24:27 PM
Still sounds like the Dems are taking a trip on a major African River system...

Boo boo hoo, wine, whimper, cry....
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 15, 2016, 08:25:47 PM
Quote
Not their fault that Hillary didn't deal with the e-mails head on a year ago.

And how do you suggest she handle that any differently?  Seriously.

Simply put, always tell the truth, and anything that will come out eventually should come out immediately. Embrace the Truman motto- "The buck stops here". Confession and forgiveness- it's the Christian way. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 15, 2016, 09:21:48 PM
Quote
Not their fault that Hillary didn't deal with the e-mails head on a year ago.

And how do you suggest she handle that any differently?  Seriously.

Simply put, always tell the truth, and anything that will come out eventually should come out immediately. Embrace the Truman motto- "The buck stops here". Confession and forgiveness- it's the Christian way. 

Oh, well lets see. 

She couldn't just release everything BECAUSE THE STATE DEPARTMENT WANTED TO SEE THEM BEFORE SHE DID.  The state department drug their feet with the reclassifications, sure.  That's not on her.  But it would have been far worse if she just released it all and the state department then found the 200ish emails they reclassified.  In fact, she'd actually be in jail had she just turned it all over without handing it over for screening first. 

As for the truth, where has she lied in regard to the emails?  She said there was no wrong doing.

Several billion dollars and an investigation later, guess what.  They've found nothing.  In fact, if you read the FBI report, THEY SAID SHE WAS FOLLOWING STATE DEPARTMENT PROTOCOL while the FBI finds that protocol not up to standard.  (but then again, the standard is unrealistic for the state department, but that's a whole other discussion)

But no, we need MORE investigation. 


I dislike her for a host of reasons.  But having been in a similar investigation, THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG. 


But the Republican committee keeps on this witch hunt.  Hint: She weighs more than a duck. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 15, 2016, 11:03:35 PM
What he said.

Also -and I'll never stop repeating this- the right-wing conspiracy has cried wolf on the Clintons so many times that only a fool listens to pretty much any try that surfaces.  This is, and always was, chump-change of a "scandal" that no one else -but her husband and Bakrama- would have anyone trying to make anything of.  Old gov hacks are simply incompetent with computers.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 16, 2016, 12:05:03 AM
Having  just criticized her for not learning from her mistakes, I'd be a fool to disregard the lessons from my own , which include
NEVER ARGUE WITH UNO.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 16, 2016, 12:09:36 AM
Yep.  No percentage in it even when he's wrong.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rextraos on November 16, 2016, 05:20:11 AM
It's nice to know others share my sentiments.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 16, 2016, 02:37:33 PM
Having  just criticized her for not learning from her mistakes, I'd be a fool to disregard the lessons from my own , which include
NEVER ARGUE WITH UNO.

You do demonstrate how effectively the republicans controlled the narrative over that whole situation though.  Like it or not, public perception is there is something wrong with that email scenario.  And, yes, Comey violated protocol when he publicly announced the new emails being found days before the election.  Chaffetz was going to announce it anyway, so it theoretically would have been worse had Comey himself stayed quiet, Republicans would have just said it was evidence of Hillary silencing the FBI. 

Republicans purposely kept the email thing going to use in this election.  Nicely done. 

We'll see how fast they get on [Sleezebag]'s potential conflicts of interest. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 16, 2016, 06:52:41 PM


You do demonstrate how effectively the republicans controlled the narrative over that whole situation though.  Like it or not, public perception is there is something wrong with that email scenario.

We'll see how fast they get on T rump's potential conflicts of interest.

Thing is, nothing re-enforces that perception so much as Bill meeting the Attorney General and shooing away the press so that they could "talk about their grandchildren". They both should have known better. That was the root of irregularity. To be fair, she never could control Bill.


I think I need to start a Conflict of Interest thread for the [Sleezebag] family, and let this thread go.

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 16, 2016, 07:40:01 PM
Having  just criticized her for not learning from her mistakes, I'd be a fool to disregard the lessons from my own , which include
NEVER ARGUE WITH UNO.

You do demonstrate how effectively the republicans controlled the narrative over that whole situation though.  Like it or not, public perception is there is something wrong with that email scenario.  And, yes, Comey violated protocol when he publicly announced the new emails being found days before the election.  Chaffetz was going to announce it anyway, so it theoretically would have been worse had Comey himself stayed quiet, Republicans would have just said it was evidence of Hillary silencing the FBI. 

Or the Democratic Obama administration doing it for her. 

Quote
Republicans purposely kept the email thing going to use in this election.  Nicely done. 

We'll see how fast they get on T rump's potential conflicts of interest.

The problem, is that there was no other way, due to the timing of this, than to do what was done.   Or did he circumvent the process and jump ahead?

The thing is, the deed is done.  T rump won even though this was the lowest turnout in history.

Did both parties have candidates that were extremely flawed and greatly disliked?  Yes.
Is the process that brought them both to the forefront is also flawed as well as in need of reform? Yes.

THAT is the discussion that needs to be in the forefront in the next several months.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Unorthodox on November 16, 2016, 07:53:02 PM
The problem, is that there was no other way, due to the timing of this, than to do what was done.   Or did he circumvent the process and jump ahead?

As far as Comey, FBI policy = open investigations are supposed to work like fight club.  YOU DON'T SAY A PEEP.

In this case the republican committee was going to anyway, I don't blame the guy for speaking up first.  He was screwed either way. 

Quote
The thing is, the deed is done.  T rump won even though this was the lowest turnout in history.

I do not blame Comey or the emails for the election.  Hillary is unlikeable for a host of reasons. 

I do think the email thing is one of the biggest wastes of taxpayer money and the republican committee only pursued it for political purposes.  That disturbs me, and is why the email thing is about the only thing on the election you'll get me to speak with any passion about.  Unfortunately, my state re-elected the ass running the damn thing. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on November 20, 2016, 03:40:17 PM
OK, election is over.  Everybody lost. 

But, one thing I have done with each president as they entered, and exited office, since Reagan, was at the begging of their election (or at re-election) they made a lot of campaign promises. 

At the end, you can see how well they did.

Reagan did OK. 
Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr all sucked.

I cannot find my Obama "promises" list, however. 
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 20, 2016, 07:44:25 PM
Obama? Close Gitmo ( didn't ) Healthcare reform (did) Get out of Iraq ( did temporarily) Punish the banks & bankers (failed) .

[Sleezebag]- Build the wall at Mexico's expense, remove the illegal Mexicans, keep the Muslims out, eradicate ISIS immediately, cancel & renegotiate our treaties, and bring back jobs, particularly coal. 

Is that fair?
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Spacy on November 22, 2016, 01:41:47 AM
Not sure, to be honest.

His bring back jobs the media has focused on coal - which he did say, but his real promise was to bring back blue collar jobs that we lost to asia in order for asia to develop a middle class.  This mostly applies to China, I believe. 

Illegal mexicans I would change to just illegals.  Course, he could just change the laws to make them legal... which fills his promise.

Time frame to eradicate ISIS (and rebranding of ISIS into something else)?  I am sure he needs a few days at least. 

NAFTA I think is safe.  Been around 25 odd years.  The Pacific trade deal was dead no matter who won - as all the candidates said they didn't like it (though Clinton was in favor, then not, then in, then not again I think). 

Didn't he say something about getting the Panama Canal back?

Muslims - was it to completely remove them, or just temp stop to get stronger vetting in place?

Refugees - did he have something about them?

Laws to basically make it hard to be a lobbyist?

-----------------------------

Obama
-- He had some specific space ones that I don't recall.  I do know that they basically all fell apart within the first 3 months of his first term. 
-- Obamacare was just part of what he promised to reform.  Most got stuck in limbo due to partisan politics.  He did get that part though (affordable) but just how affordable is it, particularly with the rate increases going on now (before he leaves office)?

OUt of Iraq - success.   Just because we went back doesn't mean we got out.  Now, if we would have made them strong instead of leaving them with a crushed psyche, we might not have had to go back.

Close Gitmo - he changed the laws so that the torture stopped (thankfully).  Rest is in process, just going to take time. 

Wall Street - never going to happen. 

Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Rusty Edge on November 22, 2016, 10:28:33 PM
[Sleezebag] today sort of withdrew his threats about investigating/prosecuting/jailing Hillary, in the interest of national unity, and has backed away from restoring torture.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Bearu on November 23, 2016, 12:11:38 AM
[Sleezebag] today sort of withdrew his threats about investigating/prosecuting/jailing Hillary, in the interest of national unity, and has backed away from restoring torture.
While the writer may not currently support torture as the first method of control, the prospect of torture does remain a strong motivation for the conformity of the population with the demands of the ruling party.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on November 24, 2016, 01:34:48 PM
I had seen on the news recently that he has gone soft on several of his pre-election stances, and it's not even January...  maybe all of the cabinet prospects are telling him to dial it back or not find anyone to fill the jobs...
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 28, 2016, 08:31:16 PM
Quote
Texas Elector Art Sisneros to Resign Instead of Voting for Donald [Sleezebag]
U.S. News & World Report
Gabrielle Levy  1 hr ago


 (http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAkRqn1.img?h=768&w=1366&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=949&y=251)
© (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images) A Republican elector from Texas says he is resigning his position instead of casting his vote for Donald [Sleezebag].



A Republican elector from Texas says he is resigning his position instead of casting his vote for Donald [Sleezebag], calling the Electoral College "corrupted from its original intent" and saying voting for the president-elect would "bring dishonor to God."
Art Sisneros was considering in August the possibility of becoming a so-called faithless elector, meaning he would refuse to vote for [Sleezebag] if the GOP candidate won the Lone Star State and its 38 electoral votes in November.

In a Saturday blog post on his website, Sisneros said he had decided he was not comfortable defying his pledge to vote for his party's nominee, but neither could he cast his vote for [Sleezebag].

"Since I can't in good conscience vote for Donald [Sleezebag], and yet have sinfully made a pledge that I would, the best option I see at this time is to resign my position as an elector," Sisneros wrote. "This will allow the remaining body of electors to fill my vacancy when they convene on Dec. 19 with someone that can vote for [Sleezebag]."

His decision followed a previous post in which he posed the question of whether it was "acceptable for a Christian to vote for a man like [Sleezebag] for president," and concluded that he could not "in good conscience" do so.

"I do not see how Donald [Sleezebag] is biblically qualified to serve in the office of the presidency," he said in his Saturday post. "Of the hundreds of angry messages that I have received, not one has made a convincing case from Scripture otherwise. If [Sleezebag] is not qualified and my role, both morally and historically, as an elected official is to vote my conscience, then I cannot and will not vote for Donald [Sleezebag] for president."

In the lengthy post, Sisneros explained his frustration with both progressives' and conservatives' approaches to the Electoral College and the failure to use the body in the way the founders intended, which Sisneros likened to parents acting "in the best interest of their children" even if in some cases their children desire otherwise.

"In most homes, kids do not have the right to eat Skittles for dinner. It is not in their best interest," he wrote.

"The people will get their vote. They will get their Skittles for dinner," he said. "I will sleep well at night knowing I neither gave in to their demands nor caved to my convictions. I will also mourn the loss of our republic."


Meanwhile, a separate movement is openly lobbying for enough electors to refuse to vote for [Sleezebag].

Calling themselves the Hamilton Electors – a nod to Alexander Hamilton’s explanation of the Electoral College’s job as to ensure “the office of the President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications” – the group spurred by Democratic electors hopes to trigger the selection of another candidate through electors either changing their votes or abstaining from voting for [Sleezebag].

Electors are set to meet in their respective states across the country on Dec. 19 to formally cast their votes for president.
Copyright 2016 U.S. News & World Report
/ar-AAkRIX1?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp]http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/texas-elector-art-sisneros-to-resign-instead-of-voting-for-donald-[Sleezebag]/ar-AAkRIX1?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/texas-elector-art-sisneros-to-resign-instead-of-voting-for-donald-[Sleezebag)
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: Yitzi on November 28, 2016, 08:53:32 PM
I had seen on the news recently that he has gone soft on several of his pre-election stances, and it's not even January...  maybe all of the cabinet prospects are telling him to dial it back or not find anyone to fill the jobs...

Either that, or those stances were an election ploy all along.
Title: Re: US Presidential Contenders
Post by: E_T on December 29, 2016, 11:43:24 PM
So, even though that predictive program pointed towards a Republican Whitehouse win, how much did the possible Russian Hacks have in widening that margin?

Did the hacks influance the primaries to where Hillary was the front runner and Nomminee?  Although the RNC claims that they did not get hacked, was [Sleezebag]'s Primary wins also influanced by this?

What other election races were influanced by the hacks?

Is [Sleezebag] going to try to influace the investigation?  Is he Putin's Butt Buddy??
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