US Presidential Contenders

[Rusty Edge]

Found this handy tool.
Looks like Bernie is mostly the same as Obama:
http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com/compare/1-35/Barack-Obama-vs-Bernie-Sanders

Except, in some key areas he is worse.

Support & expand free trade: Strongly Disagree

Avoid foreign entanglements: Strongly Agree

I checked out the website.
Well, I would describe Sanders as being left of both President Obama, and the entire US Senate. So I might describe him as worse, rather than the same. 
His idea of Medicare for all, jacking the minimum wage to $15/hour, and free college, are rather generous. The Obama administration compared it to flying puppies for everyone with winning Lotto tickets attached to their collars.


But this is as good a time as any to declare what I like about Bernie.
One of the comments on that website stood out to me- "No other candidate commands the sort of authenticity that Bernie Sanders does. He has a consistent voting record, and a history of activism that predates his political career. He is a civil rights giant, a champion of the middle class, and he has the stones to stand up to Wall Street. There is no better choice for president."

#1) Sanders is nothing if not uncommonly authentic as presidential candidates go. What you see is what you'll get. His positions haven't been strategically chosen to split voting blocks, or win in key states, or been tweaked by endless focus groups and major donors. So that's refreshing, and it inspires many.

#2) His position against the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling. He recognizes that corporations are legal fiction for commercial purposes, and shouldn't be treated as a person regarding personal freedoms such as religion, political participation, etc.

#3) I think that he, more than Hillary/Obama, or any of the remaining Republican candidates, would be reluctant to jump into a foreign war without a constitutional declaration.

#4) I like his low key approach to his religion. I knew he was Jewish, and most of the stuff in that previous post. Too often presidents make a show of it, or try to impose it.

[Buster's Uncle]

Note that Rusty is a right-(small government)conservative, and I am not.


bin, you kinda have to have been in this country watching the (US is the center of the universe) news in the 80s to get a sense of where I'm coming from with not being real impressed that Sanders was openly sympathetic to Ortega.  Pretty much nobody on either side seemed rational on Nicaragua for about a decade, not least because there was. no. unbiased. information. about what was going on in Nicaragua, and one side said black and the other said white, and it was just a mess.  The Sandinistas appear to have been some ugly customers, but not near so hideous as the thugs we backed.  We have a long, bad, cold war record in Central and South America of undemocratic interference, overthrowing elected governments and propping up brutal, murdering dictators.  I've asked t_ras to come comment on that, as he's from Argentina... But that's where that attitude comes from - the Marshal Plan was a very long time ago.

Google the Sandinistas - I was right about the democracy, in the long run.


I'd lay my money on an average randomly-chosen Iraqi preferring we'd stayed out.  -Obviously, the average Kurd might beg to differ, but you can't piss off everyone any more than you can please them all.

---

This is not a rational country anymore, and right now we're in a lot more danger of Hitler coming back than Stalin, metaphorically-speaking.  A plague on both their mass-murdering houses, anyway.

I've got no entirely satisfactory choices before me.

[Rusty Edge]

Fornication!
I just read the Sanders as commie apologist piece. "They" have him on record and on film acting like that? Showing such gullibility and bad judgement?
So they're just sitting on it until they need it...

Sanders is +15% vs. [Sleezebag]. One of my no Hillary or [Sleezebag] scenarios featured a powerless president Sanders. Neither of those two will let that happen.

[Buster's Uncle]

Eh, we've already got a powerless president, and I'm tired of that.

Bernie'll be out of it before I go vote for him anyway, and then we'll all be holding our noses come November and making an obnoxious choice.

[Rusty Edge]

Sadly true. I just saw a comparison of committed delegates and super-delegates.

I think Kasich still has a better chance, mathematically, than Sanders. That ain't right ( considering popular support ) , but that's the Democrats for you - rather undemocratic.

NBC did a story on Republican discontent with [Sleezebag], since he was too slow to repudiate David Duke. Fearing he will not govern as a conservative if actually elected, but even more likely is that [Sleezebag] at the top of the ticket will lose a lot of senate seats.

Romney has been waging a counter-tweet war against [Sleezebag], speculating about what's on his tax returns, rightly pointing out that he can release returns from previous years that aren't still being audited, denouncing him for his handling of David Duke and racists. Now he is pointing out that if need be, there is still time for Republicans to defect to the Constitutionalist party, for example.

This deserves some looking into. I'll get back to you.

[Buster's Uncle]

I am hoping. and. praying. that they will be dumb enough to do that and hand it on a platter to (gag) Clinton.

God, I hate having to live in this world...


Also, good for Romney.  ISTR mentioning that he wasn't so bad a few times, last cycle - if only he wasn't in the torture party.

[Rusty Edge]

Just when I was getting resigned that [Sleezebag] will be the GOP nominee....

From an article about "#NEVERTRUMP"

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-29/the-die-hard-republicans-who-say-nevertrump

“Despite the vacancy on the Supreme Court I will not vote for president in this election if [Sleezebag] is the GOP candidate. He is a buffoon, has no class & is not conservative. If Hillary is elected I think the republic will survive. If [Sleezebag] is elected I have my doubts that it will.”

The article is a collection of tweets and e-mails from life-long Republicans who fear that the nomination of [Sleezebag] could bring about the destruction of the party, and his election as president could do the same for the country.

Rather than share more quotes, I'll keep the post short and keep searching for more articles.

[Buster's Uncle]

There it is.  Cruz is horrible and Rubio is way too green, but either would make a merely bad president.  Little as I think of Mrs. Clinton -Mr. Clinton was my absolute last choice of the democrats when he first came around, and she's no better- I'm not convinced that she'd even be bad.  I just don't want to be in the same universe with all the Clinton haters for four or more years.  But she WILL be the only qualified candidate to choose from...

[Rusty Edge]

Possible party split weighs on GOP ahead of Super Tuesday


 David Jackson, USA TODAY 8:07 p.m. EST February 29, 2016
-super-tuesday-marco-rubio-ted-cruz-john-kasich-ben-carson/81113122/]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/29/donald-[Sleezebag]-super-tuesday-marco-rubio-ted-cruz-john-kasich-ben-carson/81113122/

Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., in a Facebook post, said he would never back the New York billionaire and would look for "a third candidate" if faced with the choice of him and Clinton.



GOP senator says he'll seek 'third candidate' if [Sleezebag] is nominee


Citing [Sleezebag] statements ranging from praise for Russia's Vladimir Putin to pledges to "open up" libel laws in order to sue more journalists, Sasse said that "Mr. [Sleezebag]’s relentless focus is on dividing Americans, and on tearing down rather than building back up this glorious nation."

[Buster's Uncle]

About the third party thing: it's horrible bad short-term strategy for the right.  Period.

But the GOP has been deeply schitz and is getting terminal -and this IS one of the symptoms of that- and it's past time for the libertarian/pure small-government conservatives to get out of bed with the theocon know-nothings and maybe try to build something else - the social conservatives (who came in with Reagan, not a real conservative) are innately statist, more antithetical to pure conservatism than the liberals.

So go take over the Libertarian Party, ditch the habitual low-class bad-mouthing -deep six all the fascist stuff like torture entirely- and advance pragmatic policies fair to everyone, and I will seriously consider jumping on that bus.  Policies that consider the crapiness of increasing bureaucracy and try to pay the bills without raising taxes don't HAVE to hold hands with hating homos and keeping the bossmen on top.

It could be the winning way for the long term, and this farce could be the fuse that sets it off.

[Rusty Edge]





http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/republican-party-split-on-donald-[Sleezebag]-ahead-of-super-tuesday-1.11524220



The Associated Press asked Republican senators and governors across the country if they would support [Sleezebag] if he secured the nomination. Just under half of those who responded would not commit to backing him, foreshadowing a potentially extraordinary break this fall.

"I am increasingly concerned by Donald [Sleezebag]'s statements and behavior, and I have serious concerns about his ability to win the general election and provide presidential leadership," Indiana Sen. Dan Coats said in a statement to AP.

The concern among Republican leaders appeared to grow in light of [Sleezebag]'s refusal to immediately disavow former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke's support.

Mitt Romney, the party's 2012 nominee, called that "disqualifying." And South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, campaigning in Atlanta alongside Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, said she would "not stop fighting a man who refuses to disavow the KKK."


[Sleezebag] said he had not understood the interviewer who first raised the question about Duke, and he did later repudiate him. "How many times do I have to continue to disavow people?" he said.

********************************************************

The words "Excuses are like Trumps. Everybody's got one, and they all stink!" come to mind.

[Sleezebag] needs to man up. It's one thing speak your mind. I imagine that is much of his appeal. The problem I have is that when he does get called on it, he invariably weasels! Comments about Megan Kelly, Jeb's wife, and Carly Fiorina come to mind. The responsible thing to do is to stand by what you said and explain it, or assume full responsibility and apologize. He does neither. He weasels.

No excuses. He's running for president of a nuclear super-power. It's a position of great responsibility. You don't get to lash out at somebody who irritates you, and then say it was somebody else's fault, or you didn't really do it, or mean it.

When you do it, you better mean it. When you screw up, you better own it. The buck stops here.

[Buster's Uncle]

I've read The Dead Zone -the movie version was okay, too- and the Scumbag makes me very nervous, given that he reminds me to make that connection.

[binTravkin]

Well, I would describe Sanders as being left of both President Obama, and the entire US Senate. So I might describe him as worse, rather than the same. 
His idea of Medicare for all, jacking the minimum wage to $15/hour, and free college, are rather generous. The Obama administration compared it to flying puppies for everyone with winning Lotto tickets attached to their collars.

That was roughly my point to BUncle - if he thinks Obama is bad, is Sanders so much better when many of Sander's ideas are same or supersized version of Obama's.

I live in country where in past the state provided free healthcare, jobs, schooling, near-free transport etc.
I understand most people in U.S. have never seen it, and probably would not want to see it, if only they knew what it leads to.
What happens when you give too many things free to people is mass dumbing-down of society.
They start to expect and demand everything from the state and take it for granted, start to blame the state for everything that happens to them and the levels of individual initiative and risk-taking are drastically reduced.

No other candidate commands the sort of authenticity that Bernie Sanders does. He has a consistent voting record, and a history of activism that predates his political career.

This would make me cautious as it would indicate he has not really changed his thought about "bread lines being sign of economic health", etc.

In an Obama vs Sanders comparison Sanders seems to be the more left and more isolationist candidate, both are things that americans don't need, they just haven't understood it yet.
For people who have "lived left" and seen results of U.S. isolationism this is really scary.
For me, living next to Russia this is "where and when I run" type of scary.

I was right about the democracy, in the long run.

Same way you could say USSR was not so bad because in the end they gave way to democracy (almost) peacefully.
Well, it's just not true. Crime is crime.
If somebody ignores it while being informed or tries to wrap a lie around it, they are complicit.

I'd lay my money on an average randomly-chosen Iraqi preferring we'd stayed out.  -Obviously, the average Kurd might beg to differ, but you can't piss off everyone any more than you can please them all.

This all depends on whether you ask this before U.S. withdrawal or after.
U.S. withdrew from both Iraq and Afghanistan too soon, leaving a power vacuum which is now allowing regressive forces to grip those countries.
So, if you ask some Iraqi now, they'd tell you, "you'd better stayed out" not because you came in in the first place, but because after coming in you screwed up completely by leaving the country before it could live on it's own security-wise.

I'm following some Syrians on Twitter.
They feel completely betrayed by U.S.
Not only they didn't get the no-fly zone they were expecting, but the help they did get was meager and now most of it goes to the kurds, who are actively cooperating with Assad.

I agree about rationality.
From outside it looks like people in the U.S. have forgotten they are americans.
The set of values always associated with America for an Eastern European like me seem to be in places the exact opposite of today's wishes of average american.
And it's not like the lessons have not been there.
Just the wrong conclusions are made from them (Iraq, auto industry vs unions, etc), often the exact opposite of what had to be concluded.

[binTravkin]

More on Iraqis thinking they would be better off w/o U.S. intervention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq#Number_of_victims

Of nearly 2 million refugees created by the 1991 crackdown on dissent, it is estimated that 1,000 died every day for a period of months due to unsanitary and inhumane conditions.

Looks like this is just another mis-informed view in U.S. that has serious implications on U.S. politics & foreign policy.

[Buster's Uncle]

bin, you couldn't be more sadly mistaken that my problem with the President is that he's too liberal.  What the right say about him is near to 100% fantasies and lies - he's a moderate with no fight in him against far-right extremism, trying instead to compromise and make deals with cranks who won't deal.

One of my many problems with Mrs. Clinton is that she not very different - though she, at least, has no illusions about the enemy negotiating.

-More later if I can get caught up on forum housekeeping...