US Presidential Contenders

[Unorthodox]

As is judging others. 

I don't have to tolerate acts I find religiously offensive in my house or my church.  However, I also cannot condemn those that believe differently and act on their beliefs on their own terms.

Theres a difference between judging and discerning.

Indeed.  Discerning is determining your course.  Judging is dictating another's. 

[vonbach]

Heh funny no. Laws exist for a reason. And I'm not talking man's law.
This ties into anti-nomianism, the idea that they law is somehow done away with.
It is not.

[Buster's Uncle]

Romans 12:2

[Yitzi]

Fact is, those can be interpretted otherwise.  In fact, there is no evidence whether it was considered a moral sin or an unclean act (and there is a BIG difference)

No, there really isn't, in the Bible.  What you characterize as "unclean acts" are also sins.  The idea of "moral sin" external to "God said don't do it" is alien to the Bible.

Many theologians agree the Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the hebrew bible, where the scriptures above come from) has two very distinct categories of sin evil.  Uncleanliness/Ritual sin and Moral Sin.  If you want me to start listing theologians, I will.

Rather than theologians, can you quote sources in the Bible?  After all, neither I nor (I presume) vonbach cares what theologians think, but rather what the Bible itself says.

It is unclear which category homosexuality falls under, but is discussed alongside other unclean acts.  My point is, if we're going to use the Pentateuch as our guide on homosexuality, why then are we not advocating for the full measure of it to be enforced as well? 

Good question.

If they're translating straightforwardly, though, "male homosexuality is forbidden" is the most obvious meaning.

Ok, let's test that:

"V'et zachar lo tishkav mishk'vey eeshah"

"And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman"

So, make sense of lay lyings.  That is what translation boils down to.  Yes, most have gone with homosexuality traditionally, to claim that is the most correct or straight forward is to ignore other possible meanings.  It could just as easily read no threesomes.[/quote]

How so?  (Note that there are other cases where the Hebrew for an abstract concept takes the same form as a plural noun.) 

toeyvah hee

We see above "Abomination" as the translation of Toeyvah.

Yet, elsewhere in the Pentateuch it is used to connote societally unacceptable behavior/a social taboo, and often translated as "offensive".  Why the inconsistent translation?

It's a good question why there's an inconsistent translation, but the difference does date back to the classical aramaic Targum (which translates many occurrences of תועבה as מרחקה, "repulsive", but the ones in Leviticus as תועבתא, basically just transliterating the word), so it does have basis.

[vonbach]

Oh just FYI block hebrew wasn't invented until something like 600 A.D.
Real Hebrew is a very ancient language.

[Yitzi]

Oh just FYI block hebrew wasn't invented until something like 600 A.D.
Real Hebrew is a very ancient language.

The block version is a simplification of a much older script, but yes, it itself is fairly recent.

[Buster's Uncle]

So, what does Silicon Valley think about Carly Fiorina?
Yahoo! Politics
Alyssa Bereznak  ‎October‎ ‎01‎, ‎2015



Republican presidential hopeful Carly Fiorina at TechCrunch’s Disrupt conference in May. (Photo: Andrew Burton/Getty Images).



The San Francisco Bay Area has long been home to legends of failure and redemption, a place where business leaders are often encouraged to flounder before they can truly lead a company to IPO Valhalla. No surprise, then, that former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina has taken to comparing herself to greats like Mike Bloomberg and Steve Jobs, both of whom stumbled in their fields before coming back as business-world icons.

Now Fiorina is attempting a similar turnaround in her campaign for the GOP presidential nomination, surging in national polls from the back of the pack to third place — right behind Ben Carson and Donald [Sleezebag] — on the heels of her winning performance in Simi Valley’s GOP primary debate. But scrutiny of her tenure at Hewlett-Packard has soared along with support for her, and critics have come out of the woodwork to ding her Bush-era performance as a Silicon Valley executive and paint her as out of touch.

The Washington Post reminded us that her HP contract included a clause agreeing to ship her 52-foot yacht from the East Coast to San Francisco. Writing in the New York Times, Wall Street executive Steven Rattner asserted that her “lack of public service or sustained business success makes Mrs. Fiorina unqualified for the nation’s highest office.” In Politico, Yale management professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld described her as “one of the worst technology CEOs in history.”

The Valley is also raising questions about the relevance of her résumé in today’s startup-centric technology world, even as it’s become clear that she has a unique opportunity to become its biggest advocate in the campaign.

According to Julie Samuels, executive director of the San Francisco-based policy and tech group Engine, local technologists are hungry for a politician who understands the inner workings of the tech industry and can offer smart solutions to net neutrality, patent reform, immigration for skilled workers and business regulation.

But Fiorina — along with the rest of the GOP field — so far has disappointed startup owners by failing to vigorously address these topics.

“We haven’t seen a candidate from either party really resonate yet with the startup community,” Samuels told Yahoo News. “No one has really come in with big ideas to fix these big problems.”

In what little Fiorina has said about these issues, her opinions have not always been celebrated in the Valley. In May, during an interview at TechCrunch Disrupt, she vowed that as president she would “roll back” the new rules on net neutrality, despite the fact that FCC chairman Tom Wheeler’s decision to block an Internet fast lane was widely popular within the tech community. In a 2014 piece in Forbes, she came out against patent reform, another issue for which many people in Silicon Valley are fighting. Fiorina has also taken a hardline stance on illegal immigration — without explaining how she would fix the complex visa application system that has kept tech companies from hiring much-needed high-skilled workers in the past.

Nor has she detailed plans on how to help a sector that entrepreneurs often complain is hindered by bureaucratic paperwork and unnecessary labor regulations.

As a result, many startup workers — who, according to Samuels, tend to have a libertarian mindset — have felt overlooked during the primary contest thus far. Garrett Johnson, a co-founder of the Republican policy and tech group Lincoln Labs, has hosted candidates like Fiorina, Rand Paul and Jeb Bush at events in the past, but says he still hasn’t heard many candidates speak directly to the problems affecting him and his fellow entrepreneurs.

“The last debate could’ve happened in the 1990s and no one would’ve known the difference,” Johnson told Yahoo News. “There was very little mention, if any, of the 21st century Internet economy.”

Without a comprehensive pitch for how to improve Silicon Valley, Fiorina’s tech experience has little relevance to workers who see her old firm as a relic of the past and revere the founders of today’s disruptive breakout companies, such as Evan Spiegel of Snapchat and Travis Kalanick of Uber.

“HP is an old, stale company,” Johnson said. “Silicon Valley is really focused on what’s hot and what’s next. I don’t think that she’s going to have a lot of street cred today because she was the CEO of HP in the late ’90s, early 2000s.”



Fiorina rang a bell to virtually open the New York Stock Exchange from HP’s headquarters in 2002. (Photo: Chris Preovolos/AP Photo).


Fiorina’s experience as a technology-world leader may be a distant memory for many of the Bay Area’s best and brightest, but advocacy groups nonetheless hold out hope that she’ll recognize that speaking about issues affecting the tech community could earn her a long-term advantage over her competitors.

“A politician would be very smart on the Republican side to talk about what they could do for startups and entrepreneurs,” said Rich Tafel, the founder of the public policy training group The Public Squared and the gay conservative group Log Cabin Republicans. “They’re sort of struck by her silence on it.”

Reached for comment, Fiorina’s deputy campaign manager Sarah Isgur Flores defended her candidate’s dedication to small businesses.


“Carly has a track record of challenging the status quo and will continue to be a vocal opponent of crony capitalism that crushes the entrepreneurs and small and community businesses that create two-thirds of the new jobs in this country,” she said.

Though Fiorina’s performances in the last two debates have showcased her skill at telling her story, making a case and selling it, her time at HP has left her with an unfavorable reputation in the Valley that she’ll need to overcome if she wants to become its standard-bearer, according to Vivek Wadhwa, co-author of the book “Innovating Women,” a collection of essays on women’s rising role in the tech industry.

“When I was interviewing women and researching who to feature in my book, I was surprised at the negativity that everyone expressed about her,” Wadhwa told Yahoo News.

Tafel credits that feedback to irritation that Fiorina has made herself out to be a business-world leader. Despite her comparisons, her professional path hasn’t been like that of local legend Jobs, as she was never asked to return to the helm of a company and hasn’t held a major role in the tech industry since 2005.

“She wasn’t a great business leader, and the fact that she’s running on that bothers them,” Tafel said. “It’s one thing to not do great in a tech company; it’s another thing to say that’s your bragging point.”

Thus far, Fiorina’s strategy for the primary race has been to appeal to a deeply conservative base, especially social conservatives, while emphasizing her list of accomplishments as a business leader.

But Silicon Valley’s tech employees remain hopeful that when the time comes for her to differentiate herself from the pack, she’ll apply her knowledge as a tech CEO to address real problems plaguing their community.

“If she fails to make that connection and tell that story, it’s a disservice to her campaign,” Johnson said.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/so-what-does-silicon-valley-think-about-carly-164258538.html

[Buster's Uncle]

HP Employees Won’t Give Carly Fiorina a Dime
The Daily Beast
Patricia Murphy09.30.158:55 PM ET



John G. Mabanglo/AFP/Getty



Out of the thousands of people she worked with, why are only two giving Fiorina a reportable amount of cash?

The employees at Hewlett-Packard, where Carly Fiorina was CEO for six years, don’t seem interested in seeing their old boss become commander-in-chief.

Of the 302,000 employees at the company, not one has given a reportable amount to help Fiorina fund her 2016 presidential campaign, according to the campaign’s most recent FEC filings, which lists all donations over $200. HP’s corporate leadership also doesn’t seem keen on the idea of Fiorina in the White House. Among the 12-member board of directors, just one, Ann Livermore, has given a donation above that threshold.

Also missing from the donor list are current CEO (and former GOP gubernatorial candidate) Meg Whitman, any members of the senior leadership team, and all but one member of the HP Board during Fiorina’s tenure there from 1999 to 2005. Tom Perkins, a venture capitalist and former board member who voted to fire Fiorina in 2005, has since had a change of heart and donated $25,000 to CARLY for America, the super PAC supporting her.

The lack of early financial support from almost anyone associated with Hewlett-Packard is hard to square with Fiorina’s own description of her achievements there. While she acknowledges the “tough choices” she had to make as CEO, Fiorina aggressively defends her six-year run as a time when she transformed the company from an aging dinosaur into a market leader.

“We doubled the size of the company,” she told the audience at the recent CNN debate. “We quadrupled its topline growth rate. We quadrupled its cash flow. We tripled its rate of innovation.”

But Fiorina failed to explain during the debate that the company doubled in size because she pushed HP to merge with Compaq in 2001. That merger led to a company with two times the revenue, but only half of the value.

Fiorina also laid off 30,000 HP employees, moved thousands of jobs to China and India, and was fired by the board after a period so tumultuous that some disgruntled employees continue to refer to her as “Chainsaw Carly” or “Carly Failorina.” Her severance package was worth an estimated $42 million.

Interviews with HP employees during and after Fiorina’s leadership reveal a deep and simmering well of discontent 10 years after she left the company.

Dean Soderstrom, a sales operations manager at HP from 1999 until his retirement in 2015, said he saw feelings for Fiorina among rank-and-file employees sour quickly after she took over.

“Right from the get-go with Carly, it seemed like it was a two-class company. It was her and the rest of us,” Soderstrom said. “Many of her employees were very disenchanted by her. When she was let go, I think for the right reasons, there was a lot of singing ‘Ding Dong, the Witch is Dead.’”

To Soderstrom’s point, Fiorina’s first year at HP not only included an immediate overhaul of the company’s famous corporate culture, widely known in Silicon Valley as “the HP Way,” but also instant celebrity status for Fiorina, who was the first woman to lead a Fortune 20 company. She appeared on the cover of more than 40 magazine covers in her first year, had her portrait hung in the company’s Palo Alto lobby next to the founders, and bought a Gulfstream IV for her travels. The previous CEO, Lewis Platt, famously flew coach.

“I don’t care if she’s a Democrat, Republican, or Independent. I would not support her for president,” Soderstrom said. “I would not give her two cents.”

Another former employee, who is now a CEO in Silicon Valley, and did not want his name used, said he would never consider supporting Fiorina for president and knows of none of his former co-workers who would. “My thoughts are no employee would donate to her campaign, ever,” he said. “She is a terrible leader, really, really bad. As bad as they come.”

A current employee, who also asked that his name not be used, said he felt HP never recovered from the changes Fiorina made. “HP is still not a happy place to work. It’s pretty much been a disaster for years, but I think Carly set the tone.” The company recently announced another round of 30,000 layoffs and a restructuring that will split the massive company into two smaller units.

Peter Burrows, the author of Backfire: Carly Fiorina’s Battle for the Soul of Hewlett-Packard, who covered Fiorina’s tenure at HP and remains in touch with current employees, said Fiorina started at HP with high hopes among staff that she would change the company, making it more relevant and nimble. Instead, she became the symbol of its demise.

“Everybody at HP knew the company needed to change and she sounded like she had the answers,” Burrows said. “That faded pretty quickly because it became clear that it was not translating into action and it began to seem empty.”

As her time at the company went on, the company’s performance sank, and layoffs were implemented, Burrows said people inside HP and throughout Silicon Valley began to put the blame for the company’s failures on the once high-flying Fiorina, an opinion that persists to this day.

“Most people think that she did not improve the company, that she made the company  the company weaker, that she tore away some of its strengths,” Burrows said. “She had a small but incredibly loyal core group around her, but she lost the vast majority of employees.”

The Fiorina campaign did not respond to several requests for comment on this article.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/30/hp-employees-won-t-give-carly-fiorina-a-dime.html

[Buster's Uncle]

I just finally got around to watching Boner's resignation - I may have underestimated the man all this time.

[Rusty Edge]

Yeah, I know. Carly ran for senate in CA and couldn't get elected. A lot of residual ill will.

But of the three Republican outsider frontrunners, I think she'd make the best president. She has a chairman of the board style. Of the others, one is too kindly and Christian, the other is too dictatorial.

[Buster's Uncle]

Is the Pig's business even publically traded?  No experience with even board/stockholder politics, if not, which I think is the case.

-No particular agenda in posting those particular articles about that particular candidate - they just seemed the most interesting of what I saw when I went looking for campaign articles...  I like what she's doing with her hair better these days - but Rubio is still the prettiest candidate on either side...

[Rusty Edge]

I don't think the Real Estate Mogul's business is publicly traded. Checking just now, I can't find any reference to it.

On a more interesting note-
-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag]-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm

.

Donald [Sleezebag] Falls: Ben Carson Surges To Lead In Poll
177 Comments
BY JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY


Read More At Investor's Business Daily: -trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm#ixzz3nXYDbSqO]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-polls/100215-773897-donald-[Sleezebag]-trails-ben-carson-in-ibd-tipp-poll.htm#ixzz3nXYDbSqO

"Donald [Sleezebag] has boasted that he's "leading every poll and in most cases big." Not anymore. The latest IBD/TIPP Poll shows him in second place, seven points behind Ben Carson.

The nationwide survey found that 24% of Republicans back Carson, compared with 17% who say they support [Sleezebag].

Marco Rubio came in third with 11% and Carly Fiorina fourth at 9%. Jeb Bush, once considered a prohibitive favorite, ranked fifth with just 8% support, which was a point lower than those who say they are still undecided."

-------

Peak [Sleezebag]?

Other polls show [Sleezebag]'s support slipping in recent weeks. The Real Clear Politics average of six national polls shows him falling from 30.5% in mid-September to 23.3% by the end of the month. That average does not include the IBD/TIPP findings.

"Things appear to be catching up with [Sleezebag] on multiple fronts," said Raghavan Mayur, president of TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence, which conducts IBD's monthly poll. "In addition to facing increasing attacks from other candidates, [Sleezebag]'s boycott of Fox News may have set him back," Mayur said, noting that the poll was being conducted during [Sleezebag]'s self-imposed hiatus. "


Today is a day for Buncle to look wise, having predicted that antagonizing Fox would hurt him in the long run.

[Buster's Uncle]

I did recall, after posting that, seeing a story last year about him losing control of some or all of his prominent Atlantic City businesses and being mad his name was still on them while they were crumbling/miss-run/going under.  -So he's at least done some major ventures as partnerships or something.

For the rest - seemed obvious.  Fox does a lot of people's thinking for them.  He's not a real candidate.  I'd hate to back my assertion with my life -which is what it might come to if I'm wrong; the stakes are the highest possible- that too much power and money is against him even on 'his own side' for him to win --- but Oh. MY. GOD. I hope I'm right.

If he comes to an understanding with the Kochs and Murdock when all their preferences give up, we are all in (this-will-be-the-finger-on-The-Button-and-I've-read-The Dead Zone) trouble.

[Buster's Uncle]

...But again, I think people are stupid, but when it comes time to actually vote?  -I still don't think (enough) people are THAT stupid...

[Yitzi]

I did recall, after posting that, seeing a story last year about him losing control of some or all of his prominent Atlantic City businesses and being mad his name was still on them while they were crumbling/miss-run/going under.  -So he's at least done some major ventures as partnerships or something.

For the rest - seemed obvious.  Fox does a lot of people's thinking for them.  He's not a real candidate.  I'd hate to back my assertion with my life -which is what it might come to if I'm wrong; the stakes are the highest possible- that too much power and money is against him even on 'his own side' for him to win --- but Oh. MY. GOD. I hope I'm right.

If he comes to an understanding with the Kochs and Murdock when all their preferences give up, we are all in (this-will-be-the-finger-on-The-Button-and-I've-read-The Dead Zone) trouble.

We're not in trouble unless he wins the general election...