Changes to the Social Engineering models

[bvanevery]

blurbsx.txt

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##Eudaimonia
#TECH54
The happy life is thought to be one of excellence; now
an excellent life requires exertion, and does not consist
in amusement. If Eudaimonia, or happiness, is activity in
accordance with excellence, it is reasonable that it should
be in accordance with the highest excellence; and this will
be that of the best thing in us.
^
^        -- Aristotle,
^           "Nichomachean Ethics", Datalinks
TECHSHORTS.TXT

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##Eudaimonia
#TECH54
^^"True and complete happiness"
TECHLONGS.TXT

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##Eudaimonia
#TECH54
{Eudaimonia} is a philosophical system that takes
its name from an ancient Greek word for fulfillment
and happiness. Based on economic equity made
possible by [Sentient Econometrics (E11)] and
rooted in opposition to the excesses of [The
Will to Power (E8)], {Eudaimonia} encourages
each citizen to achieve happiness through striving
to fulfill completely his or her potential;
freedom, creativity, and individuality flourish
in governments that adopt this philosophy.
Now here are the possibilities I see:

• happy and harmonious
• happy and squabbling, discordant
• unhappy and harmonious

3. is Thought Control.

I say Eudaimonia is likely 1.  You say it is likely 2.  But if everyone's got their own happy, what's best in themselves, what are they supposed to be squabbling about?  How can people have so many different versions of happiness, that they are seriously discordant?  Surely, nominal diversity is not seriously discordant.

[vonbach]

I say Eudaimonia is likely 1.  You say it is likely 2.  But if everyone's got their own happy, what's best in themselves, what are they supposed to be squabbling about?  How can people have so many different versions of happiness, that they are seriously discordant?  Surely, nominal diversity is not seriously discordant.

Eudaimonia is the pursuit of personal excellence while not infringing on others.
I'm thinking of an alternative to a though control society that isn't just about oppression.
Basically the idea is  a socialist "communist" state where people really do believe and work toward
to the greater societal whole. A just and equitable collective effort without overt oppression.
I need a better name, but haven't found any inspiration yet.

[Vidsek]

   "Cooperative" perhaps?   Marx's concept of "cooperatives" came close to Vonbach's idea, Lenin's was wildly different in application, but if you ignore those (mis?)uses of the term, it's base meaning is appropriate.
"Cooperative Eudaimonia" might nail it, but is rather cumbersome.

[Nexii]

I don't think Thought Control via PSI is a stretch. The use of PSI is described as dark enough in the lore (maybe even too dark - from non-Gaian factions) for such uses.

Harmony path would have similar benefits as I see it. Boosts to Planet, Morale, and Police. Maybe Probe for MC though Probe is kind of busted/weak. Whether the TC is through subtle PSI or neurotransmitter signals or bioengineered chiron hybrids, or some combination, this is all kind of similar ways of ending up there. I'll probably write up a blurb at some point but it won't change the script dialogues.

Agree it wouldn't be as oppressive as Big Brother / 1984-esque society, as those being controlled by one powerful leader would not even be aware of it. It's more along the lines of how the sentient fungus is described to be controlling/managing the ecology of the entire Planet.

Harmonious is probably fine as an alternative descriptor.

[bvanevery]

A just and equitable collective effort without overt oppression.
I need a better name, but haven't found any inspiration yet.

It's called Socialism.     You've just been poisoned by decades of Capitalist propaganda, and the realities of the Communist murdering goon squads leading various countries.  I've tried to say before that Socialism, as a word by itself, shouldn't be something you're making vampire cross-fingers at.  For instance, medicare is socialized medicine and it's not considered controversial in the USA by most people.  They don't think about it as socialism because nobody's branded and demonized it with the "socialism" cold war aspersion label.  Socialism didn't used to be quite such an ugly word in the American vocabulary, particularly in 1930s labor movements.  It's a McCarthyist cold war artifact.

Socialism is not a particularly advanced or futuristic society.  It's just something that people mostly refuse to do, in the biggest structural picture of our mostly capitalist societies.  A big debate in socialist circles is whether social democracy is possible within existing systems, or revolutionary socialism is the only way to get rid of the capitalist burden.  For me personally it is not much of an operative debate, because all the military revolutions have merely empowered a goon squad.  The State gets filled with opportunistic people "more equal than others", to use the Animal Farm phrase.

[bvanevery]

The use of PSI is described as dark enough in the lore (maybe even too dark - from non-Gaian factions) for such uses.

Described by whom, when?  You've got a video of the Dream Twister, which doesn't have any character talking about it.  Most psi stuff is described by Deirdre's voice acting, whether in quotes or videos.  Lal comments that mindworms do their job "ruthlessly and efficiently".  Santiago talks about stronger minds shielding the rest with the Neural Amplifier.  Morgan's faction has "Recon Rover Rick".  Zhakarov talks about exterminating mindworms, flipping his lid in the Lab Three aftermath.  Miriam and Yang never talk about it at all.  Not even once.   And the expansion characters count for little, as they're not very well done, nor do they get many lines.  Svensgaard talks about the desirability of working in a Brood Pit, and using razor fish to herd food.

The problem, as I said before, is not what we can imagine and extrapolate as the possibilities of psi.  The problem is what the game puts front and center as the realities and connotations of psi.  Let's make a Star Wars metaphor.  The movies spend a lot of time telling you that Darth Vader is a bad guy.  Now if someone comes along and starts extrapolating the possibility of Darth Vader being a neutral to good guy... well the thematic weight of the movie is decidedly in the other direction.  Whatever's theoretically possible, is jarring and aberrant compared to what's actually presented.

Psi is "Deirdre stuff".  It's pretty difficult to untangle it from her storyline, absent new narrative content.

Using mindworms to control the society is Cha Dawn stuff.  That's not really about psi, it's about grotesque execution.

[vonbach]

It's called Socialism.

Tell that to anyone that's lived under it. The only people that believe in it is people that have never had to or people with money in the first place. Anyone that's actually lived under hates it. Like some of my relatives.

For instance, medicare is socialized medicine and it's not considered controversial in the USA by most people.

Medicare is also a monstrous boondoggle that is ridiculously corrupt and is nearly useless unless you're on welfare.
Line the one quote I heard said to a man living in a trailer." Bluntly put you are supposed to be paying for Medicare not receiving it"

It's a McCarthyist cold war artifact.

McCarthy was also right.

"Cooperative"

Cooperative sounds nice. Harmonious isn't bad either.

[bvanevery]

It's called Socialism.

Tell that to anyone that's lived under it.

Sure, go talk to some Swedes or something.  I don't know why you persist in this brand labeling that things like Social Democracy don't exist.  There are actual Socialist parties in Europe that sometimes gain control in their governments.  Then they implement what they care to, same as any party that gets into power.  They can win elections because these societies are more Socialist leaning anyways.  It's not this conservative McCarthyist thing to them.

Unless you are going to come up with some kind of "no resource struggle" version of humanity's future, where there's nothing to struggle, hoard, and be corrupt about, pretty much any kind of utopianist harmony you come up with, is gonna look a lot like Socialism.  You can try the Anarchist approach to things, but you're not really going to get harmony that way.  You might get a system where not so many people are exploited or die on the balance.  I think it's a real stretch, but I make some allowance for the freeing possibilities of better resources in humanity's future.

I also note that that's not Planet.  Planet starts out as a scarce resource, extremely dangerous environment.

[Buster's Uncle]

Pleeease stop.

[bvanevery]

A game about ideology that triggers polarized ideological discussions.  Whooda thought.

[Nexii]

There's a difference between a discussion and an argument.

[vonbach]

A game about ideology that triggers polarized ideological discussions.  Whooda thought.

Pretty much. Thats one of the reasons I simply walk away some times.

I also note that that's not Planet.  Planet starts out as a scarce resource, extremely dangerous environment.

My latest project is I played with the fungus terraforming technology so it comes much, much earlier. Haven't tested it yet.

[bvanevery]

There's a difference between a discussion and an argument.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with arguments.  There are people who do, and I don't agree with them.  There are definitely arguments that become too heated, unproductive, and impolite.

Polarization implies argument, not discussion.  I live in a highly polarized country.  vonbach and I get along extremely well for having very opposite viewpoints in some areas.

[vonbach]

vonbach and I get along extremely well for having very opposite viewpoints in some areas.

This is true.

I live in a highly polarized country.

I am curious where actually.

It's actually amusing that avatar was picked because my shoulders, jawline and neck somewhat resemble that.

[Buster's Uncle]

In this matter, I'm going to insist on topic discipline.  Please don't feed.

I swear the next word I see about politics in here will draw a ban.

P.S. Written in anger.