The State of SMAC 2

[testdummy653]

Maniac, so why does Indie mean "crap graphics" to you?  Are you saying a mod made for free, on a game based on DirectX 9, will have better graphics than a modern game developed by a professional game development studio?

Besides, Planetfall is not as free as you imply.  You must own Civ4.  Last time I checked it wasn't free.

In terms of the gameplay itself, I don't want to make a direct clone of SMAC (ie: SMAC on a modern engine).  I want to take the central SMAC story, and make my own game off of it.  From the impression I get from talking with SMAC fans (not just from here, but other sites), what makes SMAC so great is the story itself, and Planet.  Gameplay wise, it's just another 4X TBS game.  That doesn't mean a complete change from the existing game, in all probability it will most likely end up with 80% the same gameplay and 20% my spin on the genre.

The story is great. But after the 800th game and 13 years later, the story isn't what most of the fans care about. It was the well designed and through planning of the developers who created a 4x TBS with myriad of options and gameplay style.  I think the story is important, but there are plenty of games that have better stories and plots.

I will love to read your take on the story and play your twists on the gameplay features.

I think you lose the indie developer title if you get the EA seal on your games.

[Dale]

The story is great. But after the 800th game and 13 years later, the story isn't what most of the fans care about. It was the well designed and through planning of the developers who created a 4x TBS with myriad of options and gameplay style.  I think the story is important, but there are plenty of games that have better stories and plots.

I will love to read your take on the story and play your twists on the gameplay features.

Actually last night I met up with a writer friend of mine to discuss SMAC2 (or whatever it will end up being called).  We hashed through a couple of ideas and one that we both felt would be great, and also keep intact the reverence of the original game is thus:

In 1999, Civilization launched an expedition to colonise Alpha Centauri.  Contact with the spaceship was lost shortly before their anticipated arrival at the system, and since then the question of "What Happened?" has gone unanswered.  A followup mission was meant to leave Earth in 2005, but due to the uncertainty of what happened to the original mission, it was delayed.  Well now, in 2013 the Second Fleet has been given clearnance and the launch codes.  What will they find?  Did the first mission survive?

Whilst the colonists onboard are in cryogenic stasis, there is an unexpected accident on the ship that renders most of the ship's systems and hyperspace inoperative.  Engaging the emergency protocols, the ships main computer wakes the onboard population before a final shutdown.  Left drifting in deep space, with only thrusters to guide their ship, the colonists are left to their own devices.

Many generations later, the ship enters the Alpha Centauri system.  Having lost contact with Earth centuries earlier, the colonists have survived the best they could.  Over time, separate cultures and belief systems grew, and open hostility is tempered by the simple expediant that one misplaced explosion could destroy them all.  But now.......

What happened to the original mission?  What will the new colonists encounter?  What will happen......... on Alpha Centauri?

The premise is that the first mission (the original game) failed, with humanity being overwhelmed by Planet and the Progenators.  Now, nothing remains expect the ruins of the failed alien experiments amongst the ruins of Unity's colonisation attempts.

We also formed some fantastic ideas on how the game would actually work at an architecture level (not gameplay level).  I'll go into a bit more detail in a later post. 

I think you lose the indie developer title if you get the EA seal on your games.

Yes, very much so.

[Yitzi]

The story is great. But after the 800th game and 13 years later, the story isn't what most of the fans care about.

Count me as one of the exceptions, then.

but there are plenty of games that have better stories and plots.

I have yet to see one that can conclusively be marked as better, and few that are not conclusively inferior.

Actually last night I met up with a writer friend of mine to discuss SMAC2 (or whatever it will end up being called).  We hashed through a couple of ideas and one that we both felt would be great, and also keep intact the reverence of the original game is thus:

In 1999, Civilization launched an expedition to colonise Alpha Centauri.  Contact with the spaceship was lost shortly before their anticipated arrival at the system, and since then the question of "What Happened?" has gone unanswered.  A followup mission was meant to leave Earth in 2005, but due to the uncertainty of what happened to the original mission, it was delayed.  Well now, in 2013 the Second Fleet has been given clearnance and the launch codes.  What will they find?  Did the first mission survive?

Whilst the colonists onboard are in cryogenic stasis, there is an unexpected accident on the ship that renders most of the ship's systems and hyperspace inoperative.  Engaging the emergency protocols, the ships main computer wakes the onboard population before a final shutdown.  Left drifting in deep space, with only thrusters to guide their ship, the colonists are left to their own devices.

Many generations later, the ship enters the Alpha Centauri system.  Having lost contact with Earth centuries earlier, the colonists have survived the best they could.  Over time, separate cultures and belief systems grew, and open hostility is tempered by the simple expediant that one misplaced explosion could destroy them all.  But now.......

What happened to the original mission?  What will the new colonists encounter?  What will happen......... on Alpha Centauri?

The premise is that the first mission (the original game) failed, with humanity being overwhelmed by Planet and the Manifolds.  Now, nothing remains expect the ruins of the failed alien experiments amongst the ruins of Unity's colonisation attempts.

Interesting idea...will Planet remember the original colonists?  And what effect will that have on the new colonists' growing relationship with Planet?  (Also, they weren't overwhelmed by Planet and the Manifolds; Planet is the only one of the Manifolds anywhere nearby.)

[ete]

Dale, you'll want to change your dates: http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?6768-SMAC-pre-mission-timeline

The idea of another mission long after the first is quite interesting, plenty of room for cool stuff (old bases to scavenge, logs from the previous attempts conveying what was happening with the worms). It does limit the use of the original leaders though, which would be a major loss. Also, you've got issues with humanity being heavily implied to be wiped out or at least knocked back to the stone age by screwing up earth in the original game, making this new ship fit with cannon will be a challenge unless you suggest that there was a very lengthy recovery period.

And I'm uncomfortable with slipping into soft sci-fi "hyperspace" right away. Especially soon after the first ship when humanity is meant to be in huge trouble. The softer sci-fi stuff comes late in the game when you're essentially a post-singularity society.

[Dale]

My SMAC lore is obviously very grey and murky, but I assume the good folks here could help to weave any new story into the old one. 

[Dale]

(Also, they weren't overwhelmed by Planet and the Manifolds; Planet is the only one of the Manifolds anywhere nearby.)

Good pickup.  I actually meant the Progenators.  Original post edited.

[Yitzi]

(Also, they weren't overwhelmed by Planet and the Manifolds; Planet is the only one of the Manifolds anywhere nearby.)

Good pickup.  I actually meant the Progenators.  Original post edited.

If the Progenitors showed up and defeated humanity, then what happened to them?

If the Usurpers won, then they'd have already forced Transcendence with them in charge, which I don't think is where you want to go.
If the Caretakers won, then they'd have turned Planet into a no-landing zone to avoid interference, which I don't think is where you want to go.

[Dale]

(Also, they weren't overwhelmed by Planet and the Manifolds; Planet is the only one of the Manifolds anywhere nearby.)

Good pickup.  I actually meant the Progenators.  Original post edited.

If the Progenitors showed up and defeated humanity, then what happened to them?

If the Usurpers won, then they'd have already forced Transcendence with them in charge, which I don't think is where you want to go.
If the Caretakers won, then they'd have turned Planet into a no-landing zone to avoid interference, which I don't think is where you want to go.

Who's to say any of them survived?  Whilst it's possible one of the Progenator factions won, it's also equally possible that none of them did.

It's also equally possible that Planet metamorphised as predicted and eliminated all alien life (including the Prog's).

[Yitzi]

Who's to say any of them survived?  Whilst it's possible one of the Progenator factions won, it's also equally possible that none of them did.

Then what killed them off?  Unless it was Planet that did...I think that's what you'll have to say.

It's also equally possible that Planet metamorphised as predicted and eliminated all alien life (including the Prog's).

If so, that will have substantial effects on what the new colonists find...I seem to remember that the old mission came near the end of the cycle, and that presumably had a substantial effect on the amount of worm/fungal activity and Planet's ability to communicate.

[Dale]

The story doesn't necessarily have to be forced within the confines of existing lore (official or supplimentary) either.  Some liberties may need to be taken to fit a second story into it.

[testdummy653]

but there are plenty of games that have better stories and plots.

I have yet to see one that can conclusively be marked as better, and few that are not conclusively inferior.

Bioshock.

[testdummy653]

The story doesn't necessarily have to be forced within the confines of existing lore (official or supplimentary) either.  Some liberties may need to be taken to fit a second story into it.

i like your story. You can easily put the original factions in the game with it too... Even make a DLC to play the original factions on the planet and watch their downfall..

[Dale]

but there are plenty of games that have better stories and plots.

I have yet to see one that can conclusively be marked as better, and few that are not conclusively inferior.

Bioshock.

Over and ranker.com, SMAC doesn't even rate in the top 110.

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-most-compelling-video-game-storylines

[ete]

It's also equally possible that Planet metamorphised as predicted and eliminated all alien life (including the Prog's).

If so, that will have substantial effects on what the new colonists find...I seem to remember that the old mission came near the end of the cycle, and that presumably had a substantial effect on the amount of worm/fungal activity and Planet's ability to communicate.

I was thinking about this one and the fact that the original mission would've had to bring Planet's wrath on themselves to get wiped out.. and I think it can be made to work with a new game. Remember that the cycle is ~60 million years. In the original, it was fairly near the end of the cycle, but naturally that could've been hundreds of thousands of years away. Human arrival brought it forwards, but if humans had been wiped out relatively quickly (before the lategame supertechs and extreme eco damage) then they may only have partially awakened Planet, and it could've fallen back into dreams rather than finishing the cycle. A full Flowering would have massive consequences, and Planet would be vastly weaker/less full of life after a failed one (or a fully realized sentient god-planet after a successful one), but a partial awakening does not necessarily clash with lore.

And yea, you don't want the Progenitors to have taken out humans/won. Planet's gotta have eaten the both sides of the Prog war (or at least forced them back into relatively very small well protected settlements) otherwise the new colonies are not going to get a toe-hold. Actually, I think that may be the best way to keep the aliens as factions. Having the same situation (two equally matched scoutships both almost killing each other after arriving at the same time) is just way too improbable, and virtually any other way they arrive they're going to be at too high a tech level initially for humans to touch them. Perhaps Planet's wiped out almost everything they had, and all humans, but left tiny pockets of survivors which can start re-establishing themselves when new humans arrive and distract Planet.

Also, for "many generations later" the original trip was 40 years. Perhaps this ship is lower tech, but it shouldn't be quite that far behind.

And you've gotta find some explanation as to why the original colonists got no more signals from earth. Maybe a large scale thermonuclear war plus cascading satellite destruction (destroyed satellites destroy more satellites, exponential increase in debris until they're all smashed), anything less and it's hard to see how there would not be some operational long range transmitters. Even ridiculously catastrophic climate change would not manage that in 40 years.

And Dale, you're not going to be winning many friends here by talking down AC's storyline :p (also a ranking with the top game having a few 100 votes and entirely public is not exactly.. a great way of judging it).

[Dale]

And Dale, you're not going to be winning many friends here by talking down AC's storyline :p (also a ranking with the top game having a few 100 votes and entirely public is not exactly.. a great way of judging it).

Do a Google search for best computer game stories.  Whilst SMAC is mentioned on Civ-SMAC fansites, it's hardly mentioned at all on industry sites.  It's not just one site that says SMAC doesn't rate that high, it's most industry sites that don't list SMAC.

That doesn't make the story bad, or diminish it in any way.  It could also be a huge reflection on the relative business success of the games involved too.

I'm not "talking down the story" as you say.  Yes, SMAC has a very full storyline.  But it also has a lack of spots to be able to tie other stories into.  Basically, you have to accept that anyone (not just me) tackling a sequel, will make changes to the story.  If you can't accept that, then there's no point me continuing.  At least if it's someone like me tackling a sequel, you will find I will try to keep intact as much of the original story as possible.  Hence why the idea of a "second fleet" is appealing to me.