The State of SMAC 2

[Dale]

By sequel I mean SMAC2, not a timeline change.  You know, like Civ4 is a sequel of Civ3.

I thought I'd made that very clear earlier.

[BFG]

This discussion is making me seriously consider dusting off my computer programming skills and applying for a job at Dale's company

[Yitzi]

By sequel I mean SMAC2, not a timeline change.  You know, like Civ4 is a sequel of Civ3.

I thought I'd made that very clear earlier.

Except that that's not what's usually meant by a sequel, so I thought I'd misunderstood you earlier.  My mistake.

[Dale]

This discussion is making me seriously consider dusting off my computer programming skills and applying for a job at Dale's company

Learn C# and Unity and you'll be able to get in most places. 

[BFG]

Learn C# and Unity and you'll be able to get in most places. 

True!  I already have VBA/.NET, SQL and C++ under my belt, so C# isn't outside the realm of possibility.  I haven't heard of Unity before though - is it anything like Python?

[Dale]

Learn C# and Unity and you'll be able to get in most places. 

True!  I already have VBA/.NET, SQL and C++ under my belt, so C# isn't outside the realm of possibility.  I haven't heard of Unity before though - is it anything like Python?

If you know C++ and proper OO code design, you shouldn't have a problem transferring to C#.  Really the only difference is that your classes are virtual classes able to be accessed from anywhere in the code.  IE: You don't need to define .h files with includes to your other classes.  No class hierarchy.

The reason I say C# is it leads to XNA.  And from XNA using Mono and some free plugins you can then compile to most platforms from the one code base.

Unity is a visual development environment.  Most game companies these days make games in a visual development environment.  http://www.unity3d.com  Unity is a really good one as you can compile from Unity out to windows/mac/ipad/iphone/android with minor code changes (mostly to do with graphic display).

[Darsnan]

Okay so I've spoken to EA.  It's not a "no", but they want to see how my current "in dev" game goes first.  If it goes well, we can discuss using the engine I'm developing (which will run the current "in dev" game) to make a sequel.  They want to be kept in the loop of how things are going with the development cycle, so that discussions can be taken up again in a year's time.
...........
Okay so I've spoken to EA.  It's not a "no", but they want to see how my current "in dev" game goes first.  If it goes well, we can discuss using the engine I'm developing (which will run the current "in dev" game) to make a sequel.  They want to be kept in the loop of how things are going with the development cycle, so that discussions can be taken up again in a year's time.

This sounds pretty friggin' awesome Dale! 

Just some quick thoughts I've jotted down so I can understand where you plan on taking SMAC2:

- Unit Workshop: In or out? And if in will the AI know how to use it?
- SMAC or SMAX? On a related note, Only 7 Factions in a game, or more in a game (more I think would have huge implications on game balancing)?
- If SMAC only, then plans for xpacs - will they include Progs?
- Modding: easy as SMAC, or easy as Civ5?
- Raise/ lower terrain?
- Your favorite subject: Global Warming - in or out?
- The original SMACX Worldbuilder was capable of generating planets from tiny fungal encrusted rocks up to huge waterworlds: will the AI be able to understand the differences between these disparate worlds, and optimize its playing style accordingly?
- Ice (impassable terrain for surface ships): in or out?
- Mountains (impassable terrain for land units): in or out?
- Landmarks: in or out?
- Drop troops: will the AI understand how to use these units?
- Crawlers: in or out? If in, will the AI know how to use them?
- Satelites: in or out? If in, Satelite warfare?
- Business model: Steam/ DLC approach?
- 1UPT?
- Roughly speaking, when do you plan on releasing ANW?
- IIUC you are planning to use the engine your developing for ANW for SMAC: do you plan on enhancing/ optimizing the engine specifically for SMAC?
- Once you release ANW, what are your plans for ANW? Are you going to completely abandon it for SMAC?

Also, can you give any hints/ basic outline what your plans are for SMAC2?

D

[Yitzi]

I figure we might as well say what we'd like to see regarding these questions:

- Unit Workshop: In or out? And if in will the AI know how to use it?

I vote "in", it's one of the most interesting features of the game.

- SMAC or SMAX?

Sounds like it'll be building off SMAX in the same way that SMAX built off SMAC (but more so); there aren't really any major new mechanics in SMAX to be included or excluded.

On a related note, Only 7 Factions in a game, or more in a game (more I think would have huge implications on game balancing)?

7 factions seems to work fairly well, but you should probably allow custom scenarios to include more. 

- Modding: easy as SMAC, or easy as Civ5?

Why not have both?  Have a text file that allows mods for stuff like tech tree and cost and some basic rules, and then have scripting language modding to allow even more (formulas, creating entirely new facilities/projects/unit components (or equivalent).

- Raise/ lower terrain?

I think let's include it.

- Your favorite subject: Global Warming - in or out?

I think SMAC/X does it fairly well: In, but with easy user modification to affect its rate (including to 0 if they so desire), and with in-game ability to reduce its effects.

- The original SMACX Worldbuilder was capable of generating planets from tiny fungal encrusted rocks up to huge waterworlds: will the AI be able to understand the differences between these disparate worlds, and optimize its playing style accordingly?

I'm in favor of smarter AI.

- Ice (impassable terrain for surface ships): in or out?
- Mountains (impassable terrain for land units): in or out?

For both, I think they would make nice additions, but should be removeable (or createable) by former-equivalents after a certain point.

- Landmarks: in or out?

I think they work well.

- Crawlers: in or out? If in, will the AI know how to use them?

I think they're useful, but care should be taken that they don't push optimal late-game terraforming patterns toward a single method.  Also, there should be some way to prevent them from turning mid-to-late-game project grabbing into a purely tech-based race, and there should be either some limit on crawlers per base or a downside to crawlers that lasts throughout the game (to prevent everything from being crawled by a single base.)

- Satelites: in or out? If in, Satelite warfare?

I think they're a nice addition, but if they're included there has to be a way to destroy them at a lower tech level and cost than it takes to make them.  Otherwise they're too powerful.

[testdummy653]

I think we may have jump the gun a little to quickly here. He has to release his New World game first, then get EA approval.

I don't want to be a pessimist and I believe in DALE! But he needs to spend less time in the forum and more time building this game .

[Dale]

Okay so I've spoken to EA.  It's not a "no", but they want to see how my current "in dev" game goes first.  If it goes well, we can discuss using the engine I'm developing (which will run the current "in dev" game) to make a sequel.  They want to be kept in the loop of how things are going with the development cycle, so that discussions can be taken up again in a year's time.
...........
Okay so I've spoken to EA.  It's not a "no", but they want to see how my current "in dev" game goes first.  If it goes well, we can discuss using the engine I'm developing (which will run the current "in dev" game) to make a sequel.  They want to be kept in the loop of how things are going with the development cycle, so that discussions can be taken up again in a year's time.

This sounds pretty friggin' awesome Dale! 

Just some quick thoughts I've jotted down so I can understand where you plan on taking SMAC2:

- Unit Workshop: In or out? And if in will the AI know how to use it?
- SMAC or SMAX? On a related note, Only 7 Factions in a game, or more in a game (more I think would have huge implications on game balancing)?
- If SMAC only, then plans for xpacs - will they include Progs?
- Modding: easy as SMAC, or easy as Civ5?
- Raise/ lower terrain?
- Your favorite subject: Global Warming - in or out?
- The original SMACX Worldbuilder was capable of generating planets from tiny fungal encrusted rocks up to huge waterworlds: will the AI be able to understand the differences between these disparate worlds, and optimize its playing style accordingly?
- Ice (impassable terrain for surface ships): in or out?
- Mountains (impassable terrain for land units): in or out?
- Landmarks: in or out?
- Drop troops: will the AI understand how to use these units?
- Crawlers: in or out? If in, will the AI know how to use them?
- Satelites: in or out? If in, Satelite warfare?
- Business model: Steam/ DLC approach?
- 1UPT?
- Roughly speaking, when do you plan on releasing ANW?
- IIUC you are planning to use the engine your developing for ANW for SMAC: do you plan on enhancing/ optimizing the engine specifically for SMAC?
- Once you release ANW, what are your plans for ANW? Are you going to completely abandon it for SMAC?

Also, can you give any hints/ basic outline what your plans are for SMAC2?

D

Haha, sounds like someone's excited.  TBH, I really haven't considered too much past "same name, same planet, same story".  Obviously, gameplay concepts will be investigated, because there may be better ways to do the same things in game.  My main aim would be to have the game to be the familiar SMAC, but I don't want to guarantee individual gameplay concepts.  I may add, I may change, I may remove.

In regards to ANW, it's penciled for an end of 2013 release, but I will not release just because a date arrives, but when the game is ready.  Most of the concepts in ANW are your typical 4X TBS concepts, so adaption won't be too much of an issue.  The devs confirm by using Unity to build the game on, it makes it easy to change things if needed.

The future of ANW is pretty defined.  I've always said Civ fails in depth, because it needs to be generic so concepts work across all eras of human history.  I've always said to break human history into periods where each game can explore that era in depth would provide a better overall experience than Civ does.  I talk about it in my last blog post (http://blog.brrgames.com).  So I want to use the ANW engine to also explore all the eras of human history.  But that doesn't mean it would interrupt a SMAC game.  Of course, more planning would need to be done before anything started.

Besides, with EA not prepared till mid next year, it would be at least 2015 before SMAC dev would occur.  This is plenty of time to pump out the next game in the ANW series (which at this point would be from the end of the current ANW, 1950, till a space colonisation spaceship launch).  So effectively, SMAC2 would naturally follow on from that point. 

[Darsnan]

Besides, with EA not prepared till mid next year, it would be at least 2015 before SMAC dev would occur.  This is plenty of time to pump out the next game in the ANW series (which at this point would be from the end of the current ANW, 1950, till a space colonisation spaceship launch).  So effectively, SMAC2 would naturally follow on from that point. 

Right, so tentatively I should block some time off in 2016 for the release of SMAC2 - got it!

[Maniac]

I do wonder about the viability of a non-AAA game. Let's assume the potential crowd for another SMAC game falls into two categories: those who want a clone, and those who are open to changed gameplay.

Why would the cloners buy your game if it has pretty much the same gameplay, but not even better graphics? Why wouldn't they just continue playing the original?

Why would people who are open to new gameplay play your game when there already is Planetfall for free, once again I assume with better graphics than your game will probably have?

[Yitzi]

I do wonder about the viability of a non-AAA game. Let's assume the potential crowd for another SMAC game falls into two categories: those who want a clone, and those who are open to changed gameplay.

Why would the cloners buy your game if it has pretty much the same gameplay, but not even better graphics? Why wouldn't they just continue playing the original?

Presumably it'd have some improvements/changes to gameplay, even if the basics would remain the same.

Why would people who are open to new gameplay play your game when there already is Planetfall for free, once again I assume with better graphics than your game will probably have?

Maybe it has new gameplay in a different way than Planetfall.

[testdummy653]

I do wonder about the viability of a non-AAA game. Let's assume the potential crowd for another SMAC game falls into two categories: those who want a clone, and those who are open to changed gameplay.

Why would the cloners buy your game if it has pretty much the same gameplay, but not even better graphics? Why wouldn't they just continue playing the original?

Why would people who are open to new gameplay play your game when there already is Planetfall for free, once again I assume with better graphics than your game will probably have?

Graphics are key, they don't have to be at Crysis 3 level, but way above the Battle of Wesnoth level. I wouldn't buy a game with stale graphics. I would expect some new features (like playing against all factions) and some tweaks of gameplay (better AI, better turn handling, better automation).

[Dale]

Maniac, so why does Indie mean "crap graphics" to you?  Are you saying a mod made for free, on a game based on DirectX 9, will have better graphics than a modern game developed by a professional game development studio?

Besides, Planetfall is not as free as you imply.  You must own Civ4.  Last time I checked it wasn't free.

In terms of the gameplay itself, I don't want to make a direct clone of SMAC (ie: SMAC on a modern engine).  I want to take the central SMAC story, and make my own game off of it.  From the impression I get from talking with SMAC fans (not just from here, but other sites), what makes SMAC so great is the story itself, and Planet.  Gameplay wise, it's just another 4X TBS game.  That doesn't mean a complete change from the existing game, in all probability it will most likely end up with 80% the same gameplay and 20% my spin on the genre.