I want to play moar

[Yitzi]

You seem bit absolute with your terms, do you mean that if any of those things are approved by majority, you wont join the game?

A few might be negotiable in theory (though those which are not supported by any currently existing unofficial patch would be enough that I'd probably want to sit this one out), but I would be fairly absolute on those terms, simply because each one of them is projected to be necessary for the game to be the way I like it (as opposed to everyone going ICS/FM/air-power-to-take-and-obliterate-bases.)

And couple of changes you request seems to require tweaking on core mechanics

Well, the hurrying bit can be done just by giving all factions +50% hurry cost, but yes, a lot of it will require new things to be made tweakable.  I'm working on it (and am pleased to announce I have finished my first bug fix in the process), but it takes some time.

When I'm done with all the needed and wanted tweaks, I plan to make "SMAX 1.5" semi-official.

[funbot]

When I'm done with all the needed and wanted tweaks, I plan to make "SMAX 1.5" semi-official.

UUuuuu, well that sounds intriguing. I wish u good luck on your project ^_^, and yeh, i couldnt be more glad if needlejets would recieve a serious series of nerf-hammering.

[Yitzi]

UUuuuu, well that sounds intriguing. I wish u good luck on your project ^_^, and yeh, i couldnt be more glad if needlejets would recieve a serious series of nerf-hammering.

Actually, needlejets will get off easy, as compared to choppers.  The biggest hit to needlejets will probably be that you'll need a +2 POLICE rating to obliterate a base (and without the ability to focus your troops to take a base and destroy it before it can be taken back, needlejets often simply aren't worth the vulnerability to AAA).

[funbot]

Ohkay, now that our CMN is back, its time to sum up what we have.

Players are as follow:

Me - Believers
Kirov - Morgans
ronin - hive / uni
Bodissey - ?
+ 3 random Ai

Patch: kyrub

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=108

Difficulty Trancend

All victories enabled

Do or Die enabled

Tech stagnation Off

Spoils of war Off

No unity survey and no unity scattering

Random events: Off

And suggested houserules: No stockpiling, atrocies enabled, choppers highest attack value allowed is 4.

Players are expected make their turn once a day, with 3 days force turned. If this happens twice in a row, player will be replaced or turned to Ai

If theres any suggestions or objections with these settings, post em' pls right away. Faster we find agreement here, faster our good cmn can get to work ^_^

[t_ras]

I counted 6 players here,Kirov (including Funbot and Yitzi). AM I missing something?
On one hand , I think it is a bit too many to sustain a full game. On the other hand, all of the players here are certainly stable enough. Your desition.
Yitzi, I think thet , at least untill you have the patch ready, you might be being a little too restrictive.
Regarding the team game, we could take it to another direction. What if we had 6 players wach with one faction devided into two groups (Ill do the splitting according to the factions you choose)? Pre packetd and no unpackting.
This way  players can back up each other and if one player is gone the others can play some turns untill the player is back.

Waiting to the final votes to make the game.

[Yitzi]

Yitzi, I think thet , at least untill you have the patch ready, you might be being a little too restrictive.

The only restriction before I have the patch ready is that I'm not playing.  Without the patch, it just rewards the sort of gameplay I dislike too heavily.

[funbot]

Well as far as i understood, Yitzi and dolgurokov were both not eager to join this game due their own reasons (yitzi not happy with current patch and dolgurokov dislikes Usual +3 player games).

Dolgurokovs team game is a totally diffrent issue to me, and since i didnt honestly fully or (remotelly) understand the whole concempt of the game, i decided to pass on that personally.

For me, teams/alliances/pacts should be made ingame instead of premade teams. It just seems more natural to me (would love to give good detailed speech why but i feel my english aint good enough for that  )

[Yitzi]

Well as far as i understood, Yitzi and dolgurokov were both not eager to join this game due their own reasons (yitzi not happy with current patch and dolgurokov dislikes Usual +3 player games).

Dolgurokovs team game is a totally diffrent issue to me, and since i didnt honestly fully or (remotelly) understand the whole concempt of the game, i decided to pass on that personally.

For me, teams/alliances/pacts should be made ingame instead of premade teams. It just seems more natural to me (would love to give good detailed speech why but i feel my english aint good enough for that  )

For one thing, premade teams, or any sort of binding teams, makes it too easy to specialize and avoid downsides.  For instance, Aki/Domai is an extremely powerful combination if Domai can simply build up (in population and infrastructure) new bases and then pass them over to Aki to get tons of research from.  At least with ingame teams it's harder to make such alliances, and if they can be broken then there usually won't be enough trust to let things get too out-of-hand.  (Even so, I favor a system where a cooperative victory is worth less than a solo victory, to encourage making permanent alliances only when it's extremely useful.)

[Kirov]

What's the map size? I'm afraid for poor Morgan he won't stand against another invasion of brutal Believers and I see there is the Hive onboard. Maybe I should reconsider...

[t_ras]

The only restriction before I have the patch ready is that I'm not playing.  Without the patch, it just rewards the sort of gameplay I dislike too heavily.

I too have a feeling that military victory is too easy compared with the others. It takes some interest out of the game for sure.

[Yitzi]

I too have a feeling that military victory is too easy compared with the others. It takes some interest out of the game for sure.

That part really isn't as much of a concern for me, as defensive facilities make defense stronger than offense (at least without nerve gas); the only things that would need to changed are making it hard (I'm thinking a +2 POLICE prerequisite) to use nerve gas against bases or to obliterate them (as if you can't use nerve gas it's difficult to take bases, and if you can't obliterate bases then to accomplish anything you need to not only take bases but keep them.)
Having more players, and punishing cooperative victory somewhat, will also help a lot in terms of making conquest victories hard, as it means people can form a temporary alliance against someone who's conquering a lot.  That sort of "gang up on the leader" phenomenon is very good for helping the game go longer and reach the point where conquest is less of a concern.
Of course, you still could end up with an endgame conquest play involving orbital insertions of drop blink shock troopers, but once you're in the endgame conquest is less of a problem.
But all those fixes can be done via house rules, so that's not the tricky part that needs a patch.  The only part that might need a patch (and even that can theoretically be done with house rules) is my idea of depowering choppers/gravships by limiting them to 8 movement (+2 CBA, +2 fuel nanocells).

The tricky part is making ecodamage meaningful beyond just "you must have X tree farms/hybrid forests/centauri preserves/temples of Planet/fungal pops in order to produce Y minerals", and (associated with that) making "borehole everywhere you can" a bad idea, and making ICS a poor idea for builders, and making crawlers less powerful, and making "build a cheap unit and upgrade to the one you actually want" not an effective approach, and making farm/enricher/condenser stop being overpowered, and decreasing beelining (though decreasing beelining can be done with house rules and already available alphax mods.)

[funbot]

At least with ingame teams it's harder to make such alliances, and if they can be broken then there usually won't be enough trust to let things get too out-of-hand.

Yes, specificly the trust issue is that i love in ingame pacts. The tension and all of is just simply so too irresistable to me for spoiling all the fun with premade teams . And it just makes more sense to me, for building pacts due ingame issue, were they geopolitical reasons or is there a military looney that must put down for global security

[funbot]

What's the map size? I'm afraid for poor Morgan he won't stand against another invasion of brutal Believers and I see there is the Hive onboard. Maybe I should reconsider...

Well imo standard maps gives just enough space for grow but also good amount of tension with borders. And not to mention the managing stuff with larger map might get bit tiresome... Buuuuut im not feeling That strong about it, so if you incist on that, i can bend on my preferrences on that one .

I too have a feeling that military victory is too easy compared with the others. It takes some interest out of the game for sure.

Well i wouldnt say so, specificly on miriams momentum play requires series of succesful, well placed & timed tactics and bit of luck to keep up with builders research speed. Its a hight risk high reward faction, either able to fek up own game soon or others game if lucky and skilled ^_^.

-edit- And i do feel its necessary, or atleast good gamewise to have such factions in the game, if not more reasons than just shuffle up the deck little bit. Just having punch of builders managing their production queue and formers terraforming prioritys seems rather stale and boring game to me.

[funbot]

(at least without nerve gas); the only things that would need to changed are making it hard (I'm thinking a +2 POLICE prerequisite) to use nerve gas against bases or to obliterate them (as if you can't use nerve gas it's difficult to take bases, and if you can't obliterate bases then to accomplish anything you need to not only take bases but keep them.)

Well tbh i wouldnt mind actually have this as houserule for upcoming game. Nergas Is bit op as it is /nod.

[Kirov]

-edit- And i do feel its necessary, or atleast good gamewise to have such factions in the game, if not more reasons than just shuffle up the deck little bit. Just having punch of builders managing their production queue and formers terraforming prioritys seems rather stale and boring game to me.

Ok, let's play a medium map, I'll think about my faction choice and drop you a line today or tomorrow.

The things is, I agree with you and I'm not a true builder myself. I met some players with the approach "let's build all facilities in all bases" and find it boring as well. But some industry and tech level is in order because I find little elegance in 2-1-2 or 4-1-2 rushes (if only for the fact that you don't use mixed units here, you just mass produce one design). I agree tactics is important and actually require good skills, but still early game = little variety. Some navy, artillery, garrisons, probe teams of several designs, maybe even an odd mind worm built for scouting purposes... now we're talking.

Plus recently I'm fascinated with Morgan, maybe that's because his gamestyle is so different.