A Proposal for a Fan-produced SMAC Remake

[Green1]

There's potential for me to contribute some work towards something like this, mainly as it would be excellent practice for me doing something commerical (I want to do an X-COM clone for Android/iOS as my first game).

Still I'm not one for reinventing the wheel--FreeCiv is like 90% what we'd need as a base, just redo the UI and add more functionality into the areas I mentioned on CFC. That's like, probably a year of dev time already saved. :|

I have a sneaking suspicion that these new Windows 8 phones and tablets are going to put the hurt on iOS and Android (Linux). I think the main complaint folks have with those products is it does not play anything except stuff designed for it.  But, a Windows product would play anything PC providing the system requirements are there. XCom is a interesting choice. Not too much tactics level TBS stuff out there anymore.

As far as you possibly working on it, who knows. You do know that Kael, the guy behind the Civ 4 Fall from Heaven mod (which is almost commercially good) ended up getting hired by Frogboy to Stardock to fix the Elemental :War of Magic fiasco. I mean, lead design! How lucky. Work is turning out to be pretty good from dev reports. Heck, maybe you would luck up.

I agree with you on "reinventing the wheel". Unless someone else comes along with something better, the FreeCiv offer may be the more realistic choice. Altering the source code of SMAX directly seems to take skill that is not available or a lot more work from less folks that could help.

[Kilkakon]

I suppose we'll have to see what the FreeCiv guy says on CFC and see where that goes!

[Green1]

Civ Fanatics has always, from my lurking, been considered nuetral ground. I also think in his posts he is talking directly to rcb. He is also trying to sell rcb on the fact that without mods, FreeCiv could handle at least the tech requirements and basic rules. But, I have never been on FreeCiv forums and I doubt anyone from the 4 major AC forums have been there, either. Nor do I think they come to us. I do not think he knows the players of AC. Nor do I think we know the players of FC. We need a convention. The pot must be stirred for the ingredients to mix Hopefully, all the ingredients agree with each other. Hell, I need to lurk there, too.

[Earthmichael]

Has anyone looked at whether we can get the source code to the last published version of SMAC and SMACX?

If we can, I feel confident that between myself and the other talent, we can bring the code up to Windows 7 standards.

If we can't, then I don't think it is likely that the project can be done at all.

Earthmichael

[Green1]

Has anyone looked at whether we can get the source code to the last published version of SMAC and SMACX?

If we can, I feel confident that between myself and the other talent, we can bring the code up to Windows 7 standards.

If we can't, then I don't think it is likely that the project can be done at all.

Earthmichael

That there is the 20 million energy credit question. Actual source code, I doubt it unless former Firaxis employees are hiding under callsigns.

Decompiled/ disassembled source code (if possible) would be a total different matter. But that is probably hush-hush, if it has been done at all. I doubt you are going to get a "legal" source code like what Richard Garriot did with some of his Ultimas.

But, I am just guessing. That is totally out of my area. I do not even know what language the game was programed in originally. Nor would I personally know even where to begin.

[Green1]

I have been thinking a little bit more about terrain, as I think that would be one of the toughest to implement after the AI. I heard in an interview with Reynolds long time back that this particular feature of SMAC was almost cut due to running behing schedule it was turning out to be so complex! I am glad it made it in. However you notice no other Civ ever went that way again!

Question is:

Civ 2/3/4 has no elevation. The tiles are just flavors. You have "open" terrain such as forests that cost movement points and give certain bonuses in the city screen. You have ocean tiles only able to be moved through by units of a certain "class" (in SMAX case chassis). You have mountain terrains that are impassable and yeild nothing in city screen.

Now, I think one simple hack would be to alter the graphic tile of the impassable mountian to a passable/improvable high elevation tile. Since the AI deals with pathing as it is on random maps, I believe this would be painless. But still, that would only leave 3 flavors of hieght: high (former mountian), other tiles, and sea tiles. However, this would be a "quick" fix. When you start getting to Solar Shades, etc, just having 3 tiers of elavation is going to be a problem.

My question is this: Is SMAX terrain full 3d? Or is each tile just given an entry under attributes called "elevation" that affects what tile the map shows? Or could AC actually use a "tiered" effect for terrain? So let's say global warming happens, sea level rises. Bump all squares down a tier.
No need for a complex map generator that has exact numbers for terrain.

Hopefully this question makes sense.

EDIT: Oh yes. Another issue. Some  SMAX terrain offers "concealment". I have not seen concealment in Civ. Just fog of war.

[Buster's Uncle]

SMAC(X) basically has seven tiers; the numbers go from -1000 to +5000, but functionally, it counts by thousands...

[Green1]

So.. if it is only 7 tiers, there is an upper and lower limit to terrain raising and lowering effects? The only difference is the graphic the engine is pointed to display for that tile? Of course.. along with checks to bring pop-ups if a major city does not have a pressure dome and is about to be swallowed or other things?

--Also.. where in SMAX folder are these tile graphics? I want to look at the different kinds of terrain and how original SMAX classifies them.

[Buster's Uncle]

You're looking for texture.pcx and ter1.pcx in the root folder.  I doubt they'll tell you what you want.

The elevation has climate effects, and you can't have a +2100m tile next to a +10m tile.  You've got five land tiers and two water ones, all of which have to be adjacent to tile not in excess of 1,999 higher or lower.  Again, notwithstanding the elevation number the game gives, it rounds off to thousands.

[Green1]

You're looking for texture.pcx and ter1.pcx in the root folder.  I doubt they'll tell you what you want.

The elevation has climate effects, and you can't have a +2100m tile next to a +10m tile.  You've got five land tiers and two water ones, all of which have to be adjacent to tile not in excess of 1,999 higher or lower.  Again, notwithstanding the elevation number the game gives, it rounds off to thousands.

Tier rules actually make sense. Because it is not true 3d, you would only have a level version and slope [direction] version of the base terrain without templates such as improvements, arid/moist, coastal, rocky, special such as monsoon jungle, etc. While sheer cliffs would be cool, I could see where this would create problems in the display if you had too much of that going on.

You are right, though. It is a bit arcane to my untrained eye. Pardon while I get someting to open the now defunct DOS era .psx format I still want to see what they did.

[Petek]

Howdy, just found this thread. I haven't been participating in the discussion at CFC, since I doubt that anything will come of it. (For those who don't know, I'm the moderator of CFC's SMAC forum). Some comments:

* Source code: It's not known whether it even exists anymore. Scient tried to get some information about it, but ran into a dead end. If it does exist, it's owned by EA. ISTR that Brian Reynolds said he doesn't have it, or know who does.
* This link points to a podcast in which Brian and Soren Johnson discuss SMAC. It's been about a year since I listened to it (and it's an hour and 20 minutes long). I believe they discuss the IP rights.
* I don't have any coding or graphics skills, but would be glad to help test the program.

I hope that this project gets going!

[Green1]

Howdy, just found this thread. I haven't been participating in the discussion at CFC, since I doubt that anything will come of it. (For those who don't know, I'm the moderator of CFC's SMAC forum). Some comments:

* Source code: It's not known whether it even exists anymore. Scient tried to get some information about it, but ran into a dead end. If it does exist, it's owned by EA. ISTR that Brian Reynolds said he doesn't have it, or know who does.
* This link points to a podcast in which Brian and Soren Johnson discuss SMAC. It's been about a year since I listened to it (and it's an hour and 20 minutes long). I believe they discuss the IP rights.
* I don't have any coding or graphics skills, but would be glad to help test the program.

These facts sadden me. I personally view SMAC/X as abandonware.  I think it is the personal responsibility for historical reasons to preseve SMAC/X as a historical work. I doubt anyone with the know how would dare want to do this for personal financial gain other than a feather in a cap to gain game industry employment. I sincerely doubt there are DMCA ninjas waiting to jump down if anyone decompiles/ .exe mods/clones this ancient work. If anything, they would be heroes.

EDIT:

In fact, I have modern day proof.

Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic was released in 2002. Like SMAX is revolutionary in it's genre, AoW is in it's: no other game has matched it in tactical combat in a fantasy setting on a 4x map. Now, unlike, SMAX, AoW is still owned by Triumph Studios. Now many folks still crave AoW matches but were dissapointed by the Elemental fiasco. A large MP clan from Russia "took matters in thier own hands" like the forum title and made a huge patch using .exe mods. I must say, it is impressive. Triumph, EULA regardless, did not do anythig to them. In fact, they expressed thanks.
I hope that this project gets going!

[Earthmichael]

I think the .exe mod is great example, but I personally do not have the time or inclination to try to reverse engineer the SMAC code. 

I do not know who in particular has the right to publish the code, but I suggest that whoever does be asked to publish it as open source.  Then I would be glad to take the time to bring the game up to Windows 7/8 standards and networking.  But not otherwise.

Earthmichael

[Green1]

So, with that note, as a player you are in the hands of the few people who know how to do it. IF they want to do it when it comes to .exe modding. I think Kyrub and Scient got bugged relentlessly to where I do not even see them post anymore over 4 forums.

Speaking of which, AC2 should probably be one more mirror for the SMAX Plus patch. From reading, it is pretty much the standard nowadays. It really does help things.

Beginning to believe Petek on this. All talk. Plus, unlike AoW:SM example I gave, we do not have the sheer number of fans. But, interesting talk nonetheless.

That said, the FreeCiv may have something come of it. But it is not shiney and will attract even less folks than SMAX. If you were a modder, which would you rather work on? A Civ 5/ Civ 4 mod that looks pretty and has thousands of playtesters and can be gotten pretty easily? Or a SMAX deal that may get 100 that is only available through DL sites and an expansion available through expensive E-Bay or -cough- shady means? Although I do see the SMAX patch got thousands of downloads at WPC/Apolyton.

[Buster's Uncle]

There comes a point in any project where someone has to take initiative and start doing something...