Thinker mod military capability, attempt 6

[bvanevery]

Details March Thinker mod development version

March Thinker mod development version

Induktio released a new development version of Thinker mod in March.  I have been testing it in combination with my own SMACX AI Growth mod.  His AI abuses Condensers, Supply Crawlers, and Boreholes to the hilt.  Some hardcore human players do this too.  His AI just automates it, taking it all to its logical conclusion.  He has found the Golden Path of Profitability through the game, the One True Way To Win.

Consequently, I've been working on cost increases designed to end this abuse in the game.  If it can't exactly be ended, it can at least be delayed until late game.  That allows players who aren't into this kind of abuse, to try other strategies.  The main counter to runaway Supply Crawlerism would seem to be outright invasion, or at least a lot of artillery shelling and pillaging.  On a Huge map, when an opponent is on the other side of Planet, that takes time.  I can't really have the AI getting huge resource buffs that turn into, essentially, a fuel injected drag racer vs. a mere human player pedaling a bicycle.

The fact that the AI does almost no eco-damage for all these Mines, Condensers, and Boreholes it produces, is a huge enabler of its spam.  A human player who built all of that, on Thinker or Transcend difficulty, would literally put the world thousands of meters underwater.  All that stuff would be gone!  A human would have to learn how to get by with Subsea Trunklines, or simply die.  I've played several games where I've simply died, even wrote them all up as After Action Reports.  It ain't pretty what happens when you mess with Planet.  You even have to raise the ocean floor, because only ocean shelf is workable.  Open ocean doesn't give you a darned thing.

Things I am testing:

• Soil Enricher 0.75X cost.  I've always hated waiting for those to complete.
• Condenser 3X cost and moved to Advanced Ecological Engineering.
• Thermal Borehole 3X cost.
• Infantry chassis Supply Crawler: 80 minerals for Fission reactor, 50 minerals for Fusion reactor.
• Weather Paradigm 1.33X cost, increased to 400 minerals.
• Raise/Lower Terrain 3X cost.

I already know the AI will make the expensive Thermal Boreholes.  I'm unclear what effect this has on their faction competitiveness.  Last game the Free Drones made the expensive Boreholes but didn't have impressive performance.  The Pirates got the Weather Paradigm, paid 2/3rds of terraforming costs, and didn't even blink as far as chucking everything out.  I got incredibly bored of the game and quit, even though I had built 13 Secret Projects to their 9.  It was all I could do with myself, just keep up with the Pirates' spam.  So clearly any AI faction that gains the Weather Paradigm, doesn't feel any pain at all.

I don't know what effect delaying the availability of Condensers will have.  I hope it's a significant one.

I don't know what effect expensive Supply Crawlers will have.  I hope it punishes the AI for spewing out lots of them to work many Mines and Condensers.  It won't affect Secret Project completion substantially at all.  It's always been possible to make "big denomination" Supply Crawlers and get their full value when cashed in.  Now you're just required to use big denominations.  The Fusion crawler is meant to be as expensive as an Artifact, although it will change a bit according to a faction's INDUSTRY rating.  One problem could be, since the AI gets a +30% INDUSTRY boost on Transcend, it may not even feel the difference.  But a human player certainly feels the difference, so this is as expensive as I can reasonably make them.

I have had so much stress trying to deal with long distance Secret Project races, that I haven't really tested the new military defense capabilities at all.  Who's got time for war when everything is build, build, build?  I hope I've put the spam brakes on hard enough, that we may actually see some war.  There's really no point in having a long distance war, if you can't even get your units over there, or produce enough units to have any impact.

I have determined that my unwillingness to grow my empire larger than about 15 cities, is a natural function of how many mouseclicks such an empire takes.  I refuse to feel guilty or apologetic about it.  I am not a computer, I cannot spam things indefinitely without getting very very bored.  I hand terraform every single square as it is, and I don't need or enjoy even more work than I already do.  I'm going to be a 15 to 20 city empire and I'm never going to be an Infinite City Sprawl empire in the style of Induktio's AI.  Designing a game to actually be fun / enjoyable, is very important to me.  Other people may think it's fun to spam out empires as large as Induktio's, they might even think that's what the game is all about.  But I would never force that play style on a player, and I'm not going to have it forced on me, just to keep up.

There comes a point at which an AI simply spams too much, has been given too many advantages, and isn't fun to play with, because the human player doesn't have any agency compared to the mountain of spam.  When faced with that, the first course of action is to dial back the buffs.  That could be testing the game with a different cost_factor.  But if dialing back the buffs doesn't solve it, the only remaining course is to quit playing the game and find something better to do with one's time.

[bvanevery]

Details the cult of me

the cult of me

Huge map, 30%..50% land mass with my large continents and large oceans, average settings.  Transcend difficulty, default Thinker mod cost_factor.  Random factions.  I draw the Cult of Planet.  Gaians, Morganites, Pirates, Spartans, Data Angels, and Believers in the game.  I was wondering if I should deliberately include the Pirates just to benchmark the changes in an apples to apples way.  I decided that random faction sampling has merits as well.  Well, now I don't have to worry about it.  The Pirates will probably dominate this game the same way they've dominated the others.  I almost wonder if I bit a gold dubloon in a previous life, to be cursed with them again and again.

Details don't believe everything you hear

don't believe everything you hear

MY 2118.  Miriam immediately seeks to bother me, so I kill her Scout.

Details gnarly neighbors

gnarly neighbors

MY 2122.  Morgan is nearby as well.  After many test games, I don't believe the new faction placement algorithm in Thinker mod is impartial.  I think it always places at least 1 faction right next to you, and maybe 2.  I have not had remotely the peace and quiet I'd usually expect on a Huge map, in any of these test games.  Now in the last game, my neighbors were stillborn runts, so it didn't matter.  I will see whether these 2 factions do well or poorly this time.  They were both in the last game and both did poorly.  I've seen that happen with my mod alone and the Believers, but it's really surprising to see the Morganites get crippled.  Their +2 ECONOMY seems to do great things for them with the stock binary.

I eat Miriam's Scout and continue with my business.  At least she picked the wrong faction to mess with early.  I start the game armed!  Also, I completed a Scout Rover prototype earlier by popping pods.

[bvanevery]

Details fungus is ok for me

fungus is ok for me

MY 2125.  I also suspect that the new faction placement algorithm awards crap land.  At least, it awards me crap land.  This has been the same kind of thing in pretty much all these test games.  Not only is it dry and scraggly, but there's always lots of fungus.  When I'm a Planet oriented faction, that's fine, but otherwise it's a real pill to swallow.  I am made to wonder if the Thinker mod binary changed the fungal generation settings somehow.  If it didn't, then this has been a hell of a string of coincidences in many games.  I just can't escape the feeling that these circumstances aren't random and I'm being given the same circumstances every game.

I originally started walking west because the radar echo looked like there was a lot of land out that way.  But there actually seems to be a channel separating continents.  In the southeast I can see the outline of one of Miriam's cities.  With luck I can toast it, but one thing about my mod is, cities have substantial defensive advantages.  They're strongpoints and it may not be easy to cakewalk, even with a decently fed mindworm for offense.  Maybe the spore launcher I just got will help, but they can be pretty pathetic at doing any damage.

Details you meatbag

you meatbag

MY 2127.  Morgan is such a jerk!  He won't sign a Treaty.  He does sell me C2 Monopole Magnets though.  That doesn't do me any good right now, but it's a tech I won't have to research myself.  I have retained the Cult's default Explore, Conquer focus.  The Believers are focused the same way.

Details serious stronghold

serious stronghold

Seeing a completed Perimeter Defense this early in the game is quite shocking.  I know I made them available in C1 High Energy Chemistry.  That implies Believers are Synthmetal capable as well, although they may not have prototyped it yet.  They must have popped a supply pod which completed the wall.

Either that or I've underestimated how much the AI loves this facility and will fixate on building them.  If the Believers turn out to be runted, maybe this is why?  I've gone back and forth about where to put a Perimeter Defense in my mod, sometimes earlier, sometimes later.  Things seemed to be playtesting ok before, but maybe Thinker mod has caused my own modding choices to turn into a misfeature again.

Anyways I'm not getting in there!  I did intend to prevent cakewalks, and I may have done my job a little too well.

[bvanevery]

Details chase the Artifact

chase the Artifact

MY 2129.  This is why you should escort your stuff, even if it takes forever.

Details a tale of two cities

a tale of two cities

MY 2132.  Two Perimeter Defenses?  Ok, that means the AI is fixating on them.  And even if it had only been one, and even if one had been completed by popping pods, it still means the AI decided it would be a good idea to build these this early in the 1st place.  Unless the AI got rich popping pods, and Induktio has added code to spend that money to rush Perimeter Defenses.  Since we're in close proximity and at war, that wouldn't be completely foolish, although getting Synthmetal prototyped would be way more cost effective.

This terrain is otherwise perfect for a Planet friendly faction to trash an enemy.  All I have to do is expand decently and the Believers will easily be a victim.

Actually even if the Believers got rich, spending money on Perimeter Defenses is completely freakin' dumb.  I think these are their first 2 cities!  The whole empire stillborn.

[bvanevery]

Details denial of area

denial of area

MY 2140.  I may not be able to get inside those cities, but I can certainly keep anything from happening outside them.

My spore launcher dropped through a dimensional rift and didn't go very far.  I think we are on an island that isn't all that big.  I think Miriam popped most of the supply pods already, but not all of them.  I'm starting to find some on the periphery.  I've picked up very few mindworms for having a +2 PLANET rating.  Just 1 mindworm and 1 spore launcher.

Details time to feed

time to feed

MY 2143.  The Believers have founded a new city.  I will try to whack it with my big mindworm before it can do anything else.

[bvanevery]

Details the damn sensor array

the damn sensor array

MY 2146.  Yeah I put them in my mod to be used exactly this way.  I'm just annoyed that the Believers are doing it.  Eventually I can shell that with my spore launcher, but it's on the other side of the big island right now.

Every single turn, the Believers keep trying to move an Artifact from New Jerusalem to Godwinson's Hope.  I capture it every turn, and then lose it immediately back to them.  What a show!

Details my forces grow

my forces grow

Up north I kill a Believer Scout Rover, and capture a mindworm larva after a multi-turn bludgeoning with a spore launcher.  Sometimes you just gotta keep at it!  The whole island has been explored and stripped now.

[bvanevery]

Details please die

please die

MY 2149.  The Rapture is about to get attacked by 2 mindworm larvae.  Maybe the defenders will be weak enough for me to destroy the base afterwards.  The Believers haven't shown any interest in surrendering.  In fact this turn they expected me to pay them to stop the war.  I pillaged one of their forests to hurt their production.

[bvanevery]

Details pretty please

pretty please

MY 2150.  Well I can't attack because native life forms are in the way.  But the mindworms obviously did some damage.  One was attacked.  The other got bigger as a result and then attacked.  Maybe next turn?  I don't think it would be difficult for the Believers to rush a new Scout though.

As I have over 100 credits, I decide to contact the Morganites.  They sign a Pact.  I get the Gaian comm frequency.  I ask to buy a tech, but they give me C1 Doctrine: Flexibility, which is extremely useful to the island bound.  Then they sign off.

The Gaians are standoffish, but sell me Centauri Genetics for 125 credits.  I can make mindworms now.  The fate of the Believers is sealed!

[bvanevery]

Details well thank you so so much!

well thank you so so much!

MY 2151.  The native life forms destroyed the base!  The only downside of that is I didn't get credit for the kill.  That might make the Believers less interested in surrendering.  Still I'll take it.  Now I only need to bring a Scout over to pillage that Sensor Array and Forest.

Details Morganite early empire

Morganite early empire

By comparison to last game, the Morganites seem to be spreading ok.  They've got 7 cities.  I've got 5 and have been fighting a war.  I honestly haven't allocated any resources to the war, as I've got free mindworms to do that with.  I've just been colonizing.  I do have 2 Scouts tied up messing with the Believer homeland, so I suppose that's a kind of war effort.  Pretty cost effective.

Notice that the Morganites did put a Perimeter Defense around 1 city.  This supports the theory of premature defensive fixation.  Another historical AI fixation has been getting too excited about artillery.  I've tried it at very early points in the game.  Nowadays it comes with C3 Applied Physics, which also yields the strength 3 Laser.  Artillery fixation hasn't been a problem anymore.  Perhaps I should move Perimeter Defense to C3. 

[bvanevery]

Details Gaians like to run their mouths

Gaians like to run their mouths

The Gaians contact me out of the blue and want Miriam's comm frequency.  At first I think I'll play dumb.  But then I think, the Believers cannot possibly do anything about me taking them over.  The terrain alone says they're completely dead.  I have their only 2 cities surrounded, and I killed a new colony pod last turn.  So I sell the frequency.  I don't get anything else out of the Gaians, but their demeanor changes from Quarrelsome to Obstinate.

[bvanevery]

MY 2159.  I offer to trade tech with Morgan.  He gives me Adaptive Economics and signs off.  Meanwhile the Gaians are working on the Ascetic Virtues.  I suppose in my mod they are a powerful research faction and I'm not.  I try to trade with them but they blow me off.  They're back to Quarrelsome.

MY 2162.  I offer to trade with Morgan.  He gives me Biogenetics, which enables Police State.  I switch to it.

MY 2163.  My spore launcher has done a pretty good job of softening up the Believer defense.  At this point they either can defend or can't.  Maybe that's always true but it seems noteworthy now.  I bring up my biggest mindworm to start doing the deed.  The odds are good and I blow the 1st defender away!  My 2nd mindworm blows away the 2nd wounded defender.  All they've got left now are non-combat units.  I lose a Scout Rover attacking them, but I kill a Former on the next attack with my wounded Scout.  They only have one 90% wounded Former left, and an Artifact.  Unfortunately I don't have anything else to throw at them.

Maybe I should have switched to Green before doing that.

MY 2164.  This jackass rushes a Scout Rover and kills both of my mindworms.  The unit is totally wounded and I keep shelling it, but that's really severely annoying.  I start making 6 mindworms to finally come finish them off.  They aren't quick though, it'll take 12 turns.

MY 2165.  That badly wounded Scout Rover even manages to blow away my own badly wounded Scout.

[bvanevery]

MY 2166.  I capture a new mindworm larva.  I blow away a Former with my remaining Scout Rover.  I keep shelling.  I buy Industrial Base from the Morganites for 100 credits, which enables Recycling Tanks.  I change 6 cities to Recycling Tanks production and keep 2 making mindworms.

MY 2167.  As I position myself to threaten the Believer base and one of their Formers with my Scout Rover, they talk but won't surrender.  The Gaians are Seething and won't trade.

MY 2168.  The Believers pull a fresh Scout out of their ass and attack my Scout Rover, causing it to disengage.  So now it will have to sit around healing.  I buy Synthetic Fossil Fuels from the Morganites for 100 credits, which also enables Capitalist.  I'm not doing that as it has a -3 PLANET penalty, but in principle I can.  My version of the Cult is extremely cynical that way.  What I can't do is go Democratic, which is worth +1 ECONOMY in my mod.

MY 2171.  Where the heck did he get an unwounded Scout Rover to blow my spore launcher away with?  I kill his Scout Rover with my mindworm larva.  Now his few units are going to heal up.  I try sending my 30% wounded Scout Rover to attack her wounded units in the base, but their defense is too good and I call it off.

MY 2172.  Could the Believers be cheating?  They came up with another unwounded Scout Rover and wiped out my mindworm.  If they're not cheating, then these units are awfully cheap for them.  And I don't know where their production is coming from, because I pillaged everything.

So thanks to the beautiful new faction placement algorithm, I've been in a rockfight with this creep on a small island.  Other factions are racing way ahead and we're both puny on the graph.  This may not turn out to be much of a game.  If it continues on the trajectory it's on, I'll definitely disable Thinker mod's faction placement algorithm next time.  I mean really, I might as well have been on a Tiny map if I wanted to get stuck with this.

Morgan has learned Ecological Engineering.  He has not started the Weather Paradigm yet.  Now we will learn whether raising its cost to 400, slows any of the AI factions down.  I clearly have had no opportunity to get anywhere near it this game.  The Gaians meanwhile are working on the Xenoempathy Dome, and they have already finished the Ascetic Virtues.  The Spartans are working on the Command Nexus.  I am poor.  Morgan has 14 cities.  The Gaians appear to have 21 cities.  "Fair" faction placement algorithm my foot!

MY 2173.  Belatedly I remember to go Green.  There's a 1 turn delay until the extra Planet offensive advantage goes into effect.  Meanwhile I kill a Former.  I also capture another mindworm larva that landed on my shore.

MY 2174.  The Believers kill my mindworm with their Scout Rover.  I attack it with another mindworm and do not succeed in killing it.  This is frustrating.  Their Transcend buffs are keeping them just barely ahead of me killing them.  I have started building rails because I suspect I'm not going to be able to finish them unless I bring lots of forces simultaneously.  Piecemeal, they've survived and done ok.

MY 2176.  The Believers have cleared me from their lands.  At least I have 8 cities to their 2.  I am clearly at a huge disadvantage compared to all the other factions in the game though.  You're not supposed to be locked into deadly close quarters battle on a Huge map.  Even if you ever do have an ornery neighbor, you're supposed to be able to have a land direction to expand, and not get 8-balled.  I think the new faction placement algorithm is really all about 8-balling everyone, because I've seen someone get 8-balled every single one of my test games.

MY 2179.  I buy Information Networks from the Morganites.  I can do probe teams if I get a prototype done.  The Morganites don't like my Green economy.  At least they're not hypocrites this game, they are Capitalist like they should be.

[bvanevery]

Details serious minerals

serious minerals

MY 2180.  I complete a Recycling Tank in my capitol and finally get access to the Mine I've had since the beginning of the game.  This is the kind of thing that rubs in my face what an utterly ridiculous level of poverty I've been in.  I struggle to get a Recycling Tank done, the AI belts out over 20 cities somewhere else.  There's no question that if I see the sort of "Pirate climb" I saw last game, I'll quit immediately.  There's no point playing an apples and oranges game where I have no agency.

With my newfound mineral wealth I begin working on a Synthmetal Skirmisher prototype.  That oughtta stop the Believers from counterattacking my mindworms.

MY 2183.  The Morganites are Ambivalent.  I buy Doctrine: Loyalty from them.  This makes Fundamentalist available and I switch to it.  One of my faction powers is my RESEARCH will never fall below zero.  That doesn't make me a good researcher though.  Let's face it, I didn't learn this before, despite my Explore, Conquer focus.  But it will be good for finishing off the Believers.

M 2184.  Morgan terminates our Pact.  Well hey, they can be my next victim after the Believers.

[bvanevery]

Details armored defense

armored defense

MY 2185.  The Believers have figured out Synthmetal.  It's not going to save them, but it's yet another thing slowing me down.

MY 2188.  The Morganites build the Weather Paradigm.  Will my next door neighbor now start doing the Condenser and Borehole thing?  I have a suspicion that Thinker mod may not check if the Weather Paradigm has enabled this stuff.

MY 2189.  I forgot that we're not allied anymore.  Surprisingly, the Morganites sign a Pact again.

MY 2191.  I buy B3 Ecological Engineering from the Morganites.

Details they finished weak

they finished weak

MY 2192.  After all that preamble, how did they manage to have only 1 Scout defending their city?  That was a strange, shaggy dog story.

Details and the Lord called it Good

and the Lord called it Good

Finally they surrender.  Now I can get on with making an empire.  At least all these mindworms will be useful as police units, or maybe for exploring.

[bvanevery]

MY 2202.  I meet the Spartans.  We trade a whole pile of techs and sign a Treaty.  They also sell me the commlink for the Pirates.

The Pirates sign a Pact.  Here I go again, buttering myself up for the death faction of the game!  It's so easy to do when they're Passive and far away.  They also sell me the comm frequency of the Data Angels.

The Data Angels sign a Pact.

Details I am NATO

I am NATO

I talk to the Spartans again, and they sign a Pact.  What strange politics!  If I could get Deirdre to join my Pact, we'd all mutually win the game.  That's not gonna happen, but I do make a lot of money selling comm frequencies to everyone.

Details baby chucking Gaians

baby chucking Gaians

Once again we have a Thinker mod hypocrite.  She extols my Green economics while simultaneously being Socialist.  Well at least she doesn't dislike me for my Green politics.  She just dislikes me for every other lame excuse she can think of!  I don't know what they coded into the game about the Gaians and the Cult of Planet, they rarely seem to like each other.

All these Pacts give me a good opportunity to look at everyone's empires.  Nobody has built a Condenser yet.  Of course, Morgan was the only one reasonably expected to be able to.  The AI has large empires in the ICS style, but they're all ordinary empires.

Details let's gas Deirdre!

let's gas Deirdre!

Since I've sold all the comm frequencies, I thought about calling an election.  Then I thought, why bother?  Someone else is going to call it next turn anyways.  I thought about how I might want to kill somebody and how difficult that is with ordinary weapons in my mod.  Why not legalize Nerve Gas while I have the chance?  It's usually easier when there's no Governor to veto anything.  So here it is, all legal!  Deirdre is going to regret not being my friend.