Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Command Nexus => Topic started by: ete on October 19, 2013, 11:45:29 PM

Title: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 19, 2013, 11:45:29 PM

Flood bug avoided (started with randomized map): Hope so, used an existing map as base so can't be certain, but it seems good quality and waterworlds won't be as damaged by floodbug anyway.
All banned Secret Projects set to destroyed: MCC
Requested alphax changes: CBA->Orbital Spaceflight. Copter base movement -> 4. I'm lowering eco-damage to happen significantly less often too, 1/5 of usual, but you'll still get normal number of worm pops.
Difficulty: Transcend
Force current difficulty: ON
Human starting bases: One, at good location.
Human starting units: 2 Sea CPs, 2 gun foils, one transport foil, 2 sea formers (3 for atlants)
Human starting techs (check for selectable techs like Uni): Defaults plus doc:flex and cent eco, inf net for atlants.
Human diplomatic relations: none
Human explored areas: just near current base
AI starting bases: 17 Bree bases across the map evenly scattered nearish each human, each with a HQ. Have fun with that :).
Seed AI enhancements built (Forests etc): Fungus. They get 2 mins/1 nut for it.
AI starting units (include Morale): One scout patrol per base for police.
AI starting techs (check for selectable techs like Uni): defaults.
AI diplomatic relations: Hates/is at war with everyone. Not impossible to make friends with, but you'll have to try very hard.

Game settings
ALL victory types allowed
Intense rivalry ON
All other settings OFF

Rules
Follow standard rules: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1519.0 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=1519.0)
Announce SPs the turn before they complete (when it's turns to go 1 or 0).
Use my modified alphax.txt. Back up your original.
Upgrading crawlers before adding them to hurry secret project is NOT allowed. Upgraded crawlers may not be cashed in to speed up production.
scient's patch should be used for play.


How long are you willing to wait for a turn without explanation before the person gets eliminated/turn skipped? Also, I propose that if someone is going to be away for a week+, they find someone to step in temporarily rather than stalling the game.

Anyway, download the CMN3 pack, unzip it directly into your AC folder after backing up your alphax.txt (rename your one alphaxold.txt or something), and play :). Kirov's first.

Turn order:
1. AI - Bree
2. Kirov - Technocrats
3. Kataphraktoi - Seamen (Aquatic Drones) - EST (-5 GMT) (typically am on anywhere from 6-10 AM in the morning to 10 PM to midnight)
4. Geo -  Atlantians
5. Vishniac - Submariners (Aquatic Hive) - CET (can usually play from 6PM to midnight)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 02:25:00 AM

Quote

7. Upgrading crawlers before adding them to hurry secret project allowed. - Do you want that allowed? I'm of the opinion that it's kinda an exploit, and makes SPs one turn things which are kinda cheap, rather than major investments for a faction.

1+ vote allowed

Quote

Do you want Yitzi's patch or scient's? Yitzi's currently has one annoying bug, but fixes several others, and he's working to fix the extra minerals lost on switching production bug. Pick one early (before eco damage) and all stick with it.

+1 scient.

Quote

How long are you willing to wait for a turn without explanation before the person gets eliminated/turn skipped? Also, I propose that if someone is going to be away for a week+, they find someone to step in temporarily rather than stalling the game.

xenobanana

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 20, 2013, 11:33:05 AM

1) no upgrading with the purpose of insta-building a secret project.

2) Scient's

3) concencus vote among remaining players for booting a non-responsive player, but give it a 10 day wait.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 02:38:26 PM

ete, this alphax doesn't seem to work. I used 2 copies for that and got an error with CTD. Are you sure it's fine to use scient's? Your alphax seems to be based on Yitzi's patch, with the additional variables and stuff.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 02:48:19 PM

It works with Yitzi's patch alright. Remember that going to the production screen in midproduction takes away several minerals, even if you don't change anything. Clicking 'Cancel' seems to prevents this, but you still lose the minerals if you do want to change the production, even with the first 10 minerals or between Projects. Yitzi says he'll try to do something about it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 03:04:11 PM

I completely forgot - thanks to ete for the game, and good luck and have fun to you all! :) The map seems like a cool place already.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 20, 2013, 03:17:38 PM

Consensus on scient's, so remove these lines from the new alphax.txt and it should work with scient's.

(click to show/hide)

8        ; Bonus borehole ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
6        ; Bonus mirror ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
4        ; Bonus condenser ecodamage {-32768 to 32767}
0        ; If non-zero, borehole count per base is squared when determining ecodamage {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
0,       ; If non-zero, bonus ecodamage is not affected by PLANET rating or clean minerals {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
16,      ; Starting "clean minerals" {-32768 to 32767}
1,       ; CM per fungal pop {-32768 to 32767}
1,       ; CM per relevant facility {-32768 to 32767}
5,       ; Extra "virtual minerals" per relevant atrocity/missile {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; If non-zero, fungal pops reduce the effects of atrocities/missiles but do not increase CM {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
0,       ; If non-zero, ecodamage is based off Planet Busters rather than major atrocities {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}
1,       ; Mineral divisor for ecodamage (applied before clean minerals) {1 to 32767}
3        ; PLANET multiplier at 0 PLANET rating {-128 to 127}
1        ; Minimum PLANET multiplier {0 to 127}
6        ; Maximum PLANET multiplier {minimum rating to 127}
300,     ; Ecodamage divisor {1 to over 2 billion}
0,       ; Extra ecodamage per base {-32768 to 32767}
10,      ; Upgrade cost per row of new unit (plus per square of rows if not prototyped) {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; Upgrade discount per row of old unit {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; Upgrade cost per 1/16 square of new unit rows {-32768 to 32767}
0,       ; Upgrade discount per 1/16 square of old unit rows {-32768 to 32767}
10,      ; Upgrade cost per weapon difference {-32768 to 32767}
10,      ; Upgrade cost per armor difference {-32768 to 32767}
10,      ; Planetpearls multiplier {-32768 to 32767}
-1,      ; Nutrients granted by condenser {-128 to 127; negative numbers add +50% instead}
2,       ; Bonus speed per reactor for needlejets {-128 to 127}
2,       ; Bonus speed per reactor for copters {-128 to 127}
2,       ; Bonus speed per reactor for gravships {-128 to 127}
2,       ; Bonus speed per reactor for missiles {-128 to 127}
8,       ; Unit cost rules {0 to 4 for basic formula; add 8 to include reactor-based additions to chassis cost for sea and air units, and 16 to use the variant form of the rules.}
0,       ; Convoy resource penalty  {-128 to 127}
0,       ; If non-zero, recalculate base statistics after each change {under -2 billion to over 2 billion}

Bear in mind Yitzi's working on fixing the main bug that seems to be an issue, and if you want to switch to Yitzi for other bugfixes that will work fine so long as there's not been eco damage.

Let's say 10 days without a turn unannounced=kick player (if other players don't grant an extension). And any break of over a week=must attempt to find a replacement player to stand in while they're away, ideally try to find replacements for 4+ day breaks.

Also, Seamen=Drone and Submariners=Hive. You all got your first picks for factions.

And that's one each way for allowing crawler upgrading. If it's a tie, I'll pick, but let's hear the other two votes.

No prob Kirov :). I used an existing water map as a base, which saved a lot of work. I mostly spent time making land less appealing (fungus!), moving the nexus, and making start locations more balanced.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 03:32:32 PM

Ok, just like to make sure im not messing the game up here;what i did was make a scenario folder, put the files you gave in it, removed those lines from alpha and loaded the savegame from within that folder. All looks good. Ill play the sav in a moment and upload

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 20, 2013, 04:31:36 PM

Seems to work here (I removed Yitzi's extra parameters in Alphax first) with a scenario folder.

ete, could you post the *whole* faction play order please? I seems to have the Angel graphics at my end, and want to try to get that right.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 20, 2013, 04:36:49 PM

@Kata: That's slightly different from how I did things (replacing the original alphax.txt) but afaik your method should work. If your graphics start messing up, try just dumping the faction files+alphax.txt in the main AC folder after backing up your alphax.txt.

@Geo: Turn order (only including factions used, let me know if you need others (6 and 7th).. but they should not matter)

Bree
Technos
Seamen (drones)
Atlants
Submariners (hive)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 20, 2013, 04:57:46 PM

When dropping all the files in the main folder, I have a bad technology key on Cornering the global market.

Tried to take a screenshot, but it pasted black in my graphic editor. :(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 05:51:27 PM

Try opening paint.exe prior to running the game, then ctrl-alt-deleting out with the screenshot and pasting it in. (if your on win7 a different process may be needed, but thats what works on my pc)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 20, 2013, 06:04:07 PM

NOT allowing crawler upgrade for SPs.

The game seems to work fine. Good.
I'll use the Mart operation about faction colors later.

The map is interesting but seems very large. (HELL, 29 turns to the next tech at the end of my turn?!?  :o ??? :-\ )
We need some strict turn discipline to make the game going fast.
10 days for no-response booting is ok but in this era of connexion I expect everybody at least to post to say "I'll be away 2-3-4 days, don't worry!". It takes 1min. Only guys run over by a car or getting an heartstroke will be excused. Remember it may be only a game but it is also a solid time-investment.
 ;yang; Ok?  ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:02:08 PM

Yet again had to use Yitzi's, had the same problem as before and as Geo. Geo, could you please upload your alphax without Yitzi's parametres? I'm quite sure that's the culprit.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:11:05 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 03:32:32 PM

Ok, just like to make sure im not messing the game up here;what i did was make a scenario folder, put the files you gave in it, removed those lines from alpha and loaded the savegame from within that folder. All looks good. Ill play the sav in a moment and upload

I checked it and while in theory it should work, it doesn't with my game (again, two copies). To check what alphax version you're using, go to F1 and see preqs for CBA. If it's MMI, you're using your main folder alphax. If you can manage to tap alphax not from the main folder, tell me exactly what you're doing, because I can't.

And yes, faction files should go into the main or you won't get proper graphics.

I'm fine with any arrangements as to booting.

Vishniac, 29 turns?? It means that you have way too many techs already. :D But to be serious, yes, you play the Hive, starting with several techs and with no energy in your base tiles - you'd better harvest energy tiles ASAP.

ete, could you put the turn order in the first post? I lost the count who's who.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 20, 2013, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: Geo on October 20, 2013, 04:57:46 PM

When dropping all the files in the main folder, I have a bad technology key on Cornering the global market.

Tried to take a screenshot, but it pasted black in my graphic editor. :(

I imagine it's an issue with running the wrong patch for the alphax, remove the yitzi specific values and it should work. If not, let me know.

Quote from: Vishniac on October 20, 2013, 06:04:07 PM

The map is interesting but seems very large. (HELL, 29 turns to the next tech at the end of my turn?!?  :o ??? :-\ )
We need some strict turn discipline to make the game going fast.

Your teching rate will get a lot better one you place your bases, especially if you put them near energy bonuses (5 eng with a tidal harness). Grab those bonuses!

Kirov: Have you tried removing the yitzi values? And Kirov, we need your vote on whether to allow crawler upgrading before adding to SPs, something I consider an exploit, but is listed as allowed in the general rules.

I'll add turn order to the OP.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 11:37:57 PM

Doh, still says MMI. I though that since it worked like that for scenarios i downloaded it would for MP...guess not. So i need to make a gamecopy with that alpha replacing the original right? (i asked this in the signup thread and got an answer along the like of no i didnt :confused: )

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:40:16 PM

Quote from: ete on October 20, 2013, 11:35:36 PM

Kirov: Have you tried removing the yitzi values? And Kirov, we need your vote on whether to allow crawler upgrading before adding to SPs, something I consider an exploit, but is listed as allowed in the general rules.

I will use Geo's file, it seems to work for him and I don't want to mess up anything more at this point.

Yes, I'm always against crawler upgrading, and although I could make an exception for a sea-based game, frankly I don't see why I should. So let's just not do that.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:41:28 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 11:37:57 PM

Doh, still says MMI. I though that since it worked like that for scenarios i downloaded it would for MP...guess not. So i need to make a gamecopy with that alpha replacing the original right? (i asked this in the signup thread and got an answer along the like of no i didnt :confused: )

yeah, I know, one of the things to ask Darsnan about.

BTW, stockpiling is allowed, right?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 11:53:11 PM

The original post links to the rule thread in this forum and in that thread it says stockpile is ok.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 21, 2013, 12:07:30 AM

Stockpile is allowed (unless you guys form a consensus against it). That's 3/4 against crawler upgrading, so don't do it. You can upgrade crawlers, but not use those upgraded crawlers to speed up a prototype or SP. If someone suspects a SP has been built faster than possible I'll review the save files and check whether cheating has happened.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 01:13:06 AM

It's fine, every prototype you ever built goes into the F7 screen and stays there until the end of the game.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: JarlWolf on October 21, 2013, 02:53:16 AM

I think there could be a way to document/make a semi AAR out of this: Could take screenshots of turns, and then after the game has been resolved the photo's are garnered up and posted. Of course just a suggestion, it's enough effort to even just organize a game...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:24:20 AM

Quote from: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:11:05 PM

To check what alphax version you're using, go to F1 and see preqs for CBA. If it's MMI, you're using your main folder alphax. If you can manage to tap alphax not from the main folder, tell me exactly what you're doing, because I can't.

And yes, faction files should go into the main or you won't get proper graphics.

Ouch! I've got MMI. I had made a sub-folder too.
I'll swap the alphax then. Hope it doesn't mess anything!

Quote

ete, could you put the turn order in the first post? I lost the count who's who.

Something like the WPC original TTT posts would be great.
http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?1438-White-Rainbow-Turn-Tracking-Thread-(TTT)-6days (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?1438-White-Rainbow-Turn-Tracking-Thread-(TTT)-6days)
I'd like to have all game settings, particularly the victory conditions.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 07:46:39 AM

Quote from: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 01:13:06 AM

It's fine, every prototype you ever built goes into the F7 screen and stays there until the end of the game.

Its a good idea to make max mineral crawlers when popping pods for a sweet materiels completion, so theres that. Anyway im not to worried about it, the gameplay speaks for itself. I cant do anything about some paranoia over voting the other way in a poll

Hopefully whoevers turn it is, they can find the post...i dont even see the last sav when i scroll up   :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 11:36:00 AM

Quote from: ete on October 20, 2013, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: Geo on October 20, 2013, 04:57:46 PM

When dropping all the files in the main folder, I have a bad technology key on Cornering the global market.

Tried to take a screenshot, but it pasted black in my graphic editor. :(

I imagine it's an issue with running the wrong patch for the alphax, remove the yitzi specific values and it should work. If not, let me know.

The bad key popup started AFTER I removed Yitzi's stuff from the alphax. This also means I probably played my first turn from the scient alphax in the main folder.

Really, this is truly annoying. A readme with EXACT instructions would be helpful. What we're doing know is a hotch potch of trying to let it work. :(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 21, 2013, 12:57:35 PM

Quote from: JarlWolf on October 21, 2013, 02:53:16 AM

I think there could be a way to document/make a semi AAR out of this: Could take screenshots of turns, and then after the game has been resolved the photo's are garnered up and posted. Of course just a suggestion, it's enough effort to even just organize a game...

Assuming none of the players gave me a password they use elsewhere, I'm happy to publish the passwords when the game ends which would allow anyone to create an AAR.

Quote from: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:24:20 AM

Quote from: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 11:11:05 PM

To check what alphax version you're using, go to F1 and see preqs for CBA. If it's MMI, you're using your main folder alphax. If you can manage to tap alphax not from the main folder, tell me exactly what you're doing, because I can't.

And yes, faction files should go into the main or you won't get proper graphics.

Ouch! I've got MMI. I had made a sub-folder too.
I'll swap the alphax then. Hope it doesn't mess anything!

The first few turns should have no differences from my alphax changes, only when you get eco damage or CBA preqs should it matter.

Quote from: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:24:20 AM

Quote

ete, could you put the turn order in the first post? I lost the count who's who.

Something like the WPC original TTT posts would be great.
http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?1438-White-Rainbow-Turn-Tracking-Thread-(TTT)-6days (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?1438-White-Rainbow-Turn-Tracking-Thread-(TTT)-6days)
I'd like to have all game settings, particularly the victory conditions.

I'll add victory conditions. Is there anything else important you want added?

Quote from: Geo on October 21, 2013, 11:36:00 AM

Quote from: ete on October 20, 2013, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: Geo on October 20, 2013, 04:57:46 PM

When dropping all the files in the main folder, I have a bad technology key on Cornering the global market.

Tried to take a screenshot, but it pasted black in my graphic editor. :(

I imagine it's an issue with running the wrong patch for the alphax, remove the yitzi specific values and it should work. If not, let me know.

The bad key popup started AFTER I removed Yitzi's stuff from the alphax. This also means I probably played my first turn from the scient alphax in the main folder.

Really, this is truly annoying. A readme with EXACT instructions would be helpful. What we're doing know is a hotch potch of trying to let it work. :(

Sorry, I set it up to work with Yitzi's patch, but you guys want scient's.. I can try and figure out what's going on maybe later today if you guys are still stuck.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 01:47:26 PM

I am stuck on the same thing as geo after making a new smac game and overwriting the files into the main folder. Removing the new content from the alpha doesnt work.

The bug with losing minerals in production is a bit too much for me, thats why i wanted scients. Or could we use an older yitzi patch? If the only changes made to the alpha are the CBA being moved and global damage changed, we could just keep playing as is and do something about the CBA later, and for ecodamage now, just crank up that global warming multiplier to the level desired by the CMN. (i actually dont recall what the changes to ecodamage were supposed to be...was it 1\5 weaker global warming?)

@Jarlwolf: I wouldnt mind sharing my password from turn 1 if you want to work up something alongside the game to be released when we conclude.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 02:11:55 PM

All right, the attached alphax should work fine. I just took a vanilla one and introduce changes ete mentioned in the first post. ete, please make sure the list is complete:

1) 1,5 - Num/Den for EC

2) Copter - 4 MP

3) MCC - Disabled

4) CBA - Orbital

5) Custom factions - to stay on the safe side, I just added all the factions you had there.

Remember to use a vanilla helpx, attached for your convenience.

I probably shouldn't release my password, I'm a lazy and dewy-eyed guy and use variations of one pwd in all my games. On the other hand, oh well who cares. It's not like anybody's gonna start cheating. ;)

EDIT: the files attached seem to work for me.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 03:29:00 PM

Yes, it worked. I manged to open my 2108 seamen sav and CBA is attached to Orbital.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 04:46:02 PM

Downloading...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 06:02:08 PM

Okay, all seems fine now except base graphics.  :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:14:00 PM

I have put the 2 txt (and the Bree/Seamen/... files too) in the main folder and have opened my 2107 SAV.
CBA has now prerequisite Orbital Spaceflight. Good!
My graphics are still the University. I don't care for now.
BUT:
The game didn't tell me that I already opened the save so I am at the beginning again with one base and my units inside. More insidious: the number of turns to build unit X has changed (I had 10 turns to go for a seaformer in the file I sent, here it's only 8 ).
What should I (we) do? If everything returns to normal next turn, it won't change much. Or should I play it and send it again before some bug grinds the game to an halt? (I don't know much about modding).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 06:18:56 PM

2108 hasn't passed you yet? You're the SeaDrones, yes?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:23:59 PM

Quote from: Geo on October 21, 2013, 06:18:56 PM

2108 hasn't passed you yet? You're the SeaDrones, yes?

The Submariners (Hive)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 06:24:23 PM

Vishniac, the 2108 sav for your hive has not been downloaded yet, so you must have opened the wrong turn and not got the recent one?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 06:35:24 PM

It's attached in the second post of this page (with normal forum settings).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 06:56:22 PM

I know but I wanted to test the txt before.

Strange: I have now the 2108 open, CBA is linked to Orbital Spaceflight, ok, but my seaformer has still 9 turns before being built.
The question is: is it normal according to the scenario?
I'll let Ete answer this, perhaps by opening my save, and I play for now.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 07:09:10 PM

Vishniac, the most important thing is the number of minerals per row. As the Hive, you should see 9 mins in a row. Is that the case?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 07:12:32 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 07:09:10 PM

Vishniac, the most important thing is the number of minerals per row. As the Hive, you should see 9 mins in a row. Is that the case?

Yes!
So everything's fine?
Hold on, I'll post the turn in...30min.
To pleasure Jarlwolf, I'll write/printscreen an AAR.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 07:33:43 PM

Turn was going well!  ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 07:37:49 PM

On.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 21, 2013, 07:41:45 PM

There's a couple of other minor alphax changes (changing the cost factor of copters to 4 along with movement, and adding
Probe Foil, Foil, Probe Team, Scout, 11, 0, 0, PlaNets, -1, 00000000000000000000000000 to default units so the AI has some probe power, and #CUSTOMFACTIONS line appears twice which may be an issue). Otherwise the new alphax looks all correct, thanks for setting that up :).

As for passwords, if your pass is reused and you don't want it published publicly at game end that's okay, maybe it could be given to specific people for use in making an AAR?

It'll be interesting to see who gets in contact with each other and the bree first :).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 07:47:25 PM

Towards you geo.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 07:50:37 PM

/me drags himself out of bed

you :whip: you!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 08:05:40 PM

To the SeaHive.

I also attached the alphax with ete's probe foil and chopper costs added/adjusted.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 08:40:55 PM

10min to download/play/upload ? ???
It's official now, you guys scare me!!
(and nothing is more dangerous than a scared Yang  ;yang;)

Turn going smooth.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 08:45:50 PM

What do you mean? First turns take a moment, but then it can take much longer than 10 min.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 08:58:47 PM

Im keeping a small journal of interesting points, have 7 entries sofar :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 09:16:29 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 08:45:50 PM

What do you mean? First turns take a moment, but then it can take much longer than 10 min.

I mean that I posted the other turn at 2:33 and you posted yours at 2:37 ! 4min!
I'm playing with chess-blitz SMACers, I'm doomed!  :o

Quote from: ete on October 21, 2013, 12:57:35 PM

I'll add victory conditions. Is there anything else important you want added?

Perhaps the time-zones of the human players. It makes a difference to know if it is 2AM or 9PM for Kirov when my turn arrives: I'll take less time if the guy is waiting, more if he's sleeping.
As for me, it's CET and I am usually playable from 6PM to midnight.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 09:23:58 PM

The thing about blitz chess is, you dont always make good moves  ;)

My timezone is -5 GMT

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 21, 2013, 09:44:15 PM

Minus five???  :o
It's way past midnight at your place!
ION, the Royal Navy won its first battle this turn!

This is it for me today.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 21, 2013, 11:02:58 PM

To the Technos.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 01:03:12 PM

to seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 01:35:53 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 22, 2013, 03:29:54 PM

And the Chairman needs to make some decisions again...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 22, 2013, 04:05:07 PM

Not many decisions these days. All is well planned as it should be by the Collective.
Just moving and retrieving useful datas.  ;yang;

To the Technos.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 04:11:10 PM

Sea ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 07:52:57 PM

Had a crash. Unrelated ,does the f9 monument screen no longer work in multiplayer?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 22, 2013, 08:10:45 PM

I bet your custom Drones have no .pcx 2 & 3 included.  The originals, appropriately re-labled, should still work...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 08:43:33 PM

Those files are there, its in the zip included in first post i think

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:05:15 PM

Can anyone start a new game with this new alphax? I've just discovered I can't, there is a screen with the Pirates, but no Planetfall follows and I need to alt+del+ctl.

Also, Bree looks kinda hot, if a bit troubled, "I like vampires" chick.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 22, 2013, 10:23:10 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:05:15 PM

Also, Bree looks kinda hot, if a bit troubled, "I like vampires" chick.

Unfortunately due to the faction bug Daughter Bree has for me the face of Yang...but I have now Brie Bella on TV  :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:25:27 PM

I wonder where that image comes from. Anyhow, Vishniac, I recommend using Iniswap, a great tool around that graphics bug.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 23, 2013, 05:11:12 AM

To the Submariners.

Also, Foreman Domai may have performed as many as two loads of his save.  :P

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 23, 2013, 06:10:47 AM

To the Technos.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 11:14:53 AM

Yep. You had crashes, Kata?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 11:48:40 AM

I had one crash. I have no idea why it says 2 reloads  ???

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 23, 2013, 12:35:46 PM

I ran a simulation to test how the Bree expands.. and it's about right I think. But I'm going to give you all a warning: Watch out. They will pick off unarmoured formers mercilessly from quite early on, and they will outnumber you at sea. Taking their bases will be very hard until you get good weapons (Impact+), since they all have 3-res, even beating their normal units (3 res gunboats) is annoying. You will have to be careful with exploring as they'll pick off unarmored units easily (and armored ones if you hit an IOD), and explore moderately quickly to get a good share of the pods. However, they're unlikely to have good weapons until quite late (unless one of you decides to give them impact for some reason) and so will have trouble taking bases with more than very weak defenses. They are AI and will play stupidly in various ways. Exploit this or you will have trouble.

Additionally: They will be ahead of you in tech for some time. This is basically unavoidable since I gave them 17 bases and no inefficiency, they're going to have more energy income than a human near the start. They will fall behind in tech once you start setting up properly (especially those Tidal Energy Bonus squares and boosting facilities), but getting early probes and probing them for parity is a good idea. Either use a transport packed with cheap infantry probes (cheaper, less lost if you hit interlocks bases, but vulnerable to losing lots at once) or foil probes. An escort would help.

I'm giving these tips to try and hopefully even the balance, if one faction prepares for the Bree and the others don't.. that prepared faction will lose a lot less and gain a lot more.

Also.. I'd strongly encourage you guys to play a waterworld map in single player to get a feel for how it works. Terraforming is very different, tech paths are very different, warfare is very different, keeping vision of your territory is very different (no sensors, so you need armored crawlers with deep radar or something if you want warning), harassment attacks are very different (mostly sneaking in and capturing a few formers/crawlers with marine detachment, maybe probing a bit, then running). Get comfortable.

I would like to propose an extra rule. Either:
1. No attacking Bree Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods at sea with units that have the Marine Detachment ability.
Or:
2. Any Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods captured from the Bree must be immediately disbanded.

This prevents humans from taking advantage of killing a large Bree base in order to steal 2-4 Colony Pods with Marine Detachment, and will reduce micromanagement of lots of small bases later on for everyone.

And timezones/normal play hours please so I can add them to the OP :).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:43:33 PM

My timezone is -5 GMT, otherwise known as EST. Im in Michigan, USA,  on the east coast timezone. I typically am on anywhere from 6-10 AM in the morning to 10 PM to midnight.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 23, 2013, 01:41:03 PM

Also, wrote this: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=5104.new#new (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=5104.new#new)

Would be interesting to have thoughts :)

And I checked everyone's state of play. Interesting diversity of base placements and exploration, some if you put bases down much faster/closer than I'd expected and are doing different terraforming than I'd thought. Also some unexpected production (land formers? already? and I think a SP-start needs announcing unless I missed the post?). I'll not comment on specific people to avoid spoilers, and will avoid this kind of general game commentary too if you players would prefer. Alternatively, if you all want commentary I can do more (while still avoiding secrets).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 23, 2013, 04:36:09 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:43:33 PM

My timezone is -5 GMT, otherwise known as EST. Im in Michigan, USA,  on the east coast timezone. I typically am on anywhere from 6-10 AM in the morning to 10 PM to midnight.

My mistake.

Chairmain?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 04:49:10 PM

Its not my SP, but i thought the rule was about announcing the 1 turn to completion of SPs not also their start(i see it in the thread OP, i just didnt remember)

Its all good Geo  :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 23, 2013, 04:51:06 PM

I know about the one turn before finishing.
Start as well?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 23, 2013, 05:08:54 PM

hm, I'm used to single player where you get a notice at start of project as well as one turn before completion by a foe, and wrote "Announce SPs the turn before they complete (when it's turns to go 1 or 0) and the turn you start them." in the opening post rules. Players can already see who is making what SPs on the SP screen, so it's really just a matter of convenience/time saving for all of you to not have to check that screen every turn (and makes this thread a bit more interesting for observers). However, if you players would prefer not to announce on SP start that's okay, I can change the rule.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 05:13:54 PM

Quote from: ete on October 23, 2013, 01:41:03 PM

Alternatively, if you all want commentary I can do more (while still avoiding secrets).

It will be very interesting if you make notes with today's dates, but I'd rather not hear anything at all that wasn't warranted. Even shreds of info may be priceless when combined with other shreds, power graph readings, etc. For example:

Quote

land formers? already?

I bet 50 EC it's Kata.  ;lol Not the in-game EC, the one you have in your profile. Any takers? :) And Kata, please go back to the water like decent folk.

As for SP - traditionally, only the completion is announced. If you want to know about the start, in my book you're supposed to remember to click F5. If you didn't bother, your problem. I do it in almost any turn I open, unless I'm in hurry.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 05:15:21 PM

Ill take that bet.

Im not opposed to the rule in general ete, but we have so many many rules already!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 23, 2013, 05:17:39 PM

It had not passed unnoticed to the Hive that someone had started an SP. That doesn't worry us.
Chairman Yang laughs "IMPROVING YOUR TERRAFORMING WILL DO YOU MUCH GOOD WHEN THE BREE WILL HAVE DESTROYED ALL YOUR FORMERS, MUAHAHAHAHA!!!"  ;yang;
*unless the concerned faction started in the center of the round atoll and feels protected...*  :mad:

For me, no announcement required at a SP start.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 05:39:31 PM

Onwards to the guy who doesn't have land formers. Nossir.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 06:31:10 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 23, 2013, 06:32:17 PM

Okay, two for no announce at start, one not really care. I'll remove the rule.

Not bad turn rate so far :).

@Kirov: My thoughts are that even if you guess something correctly, so long as only very vague info is revealed.. you're not going to be able to do anything with information at this stage, and by the time you are in a position to possibly exploit it it will be massively outdated and more importantly you'll all want to have infiltrated anyone you're thinking of attacking. If I said something like "a player is preparing to attack" that'd be actionable (action=increase resources on infiltrating, getting vision, and improving defenses). If I say someone has land formers early.. in what way could that improve your decision making, even if you knew who it was? If players are comfortable with it, I'd maybe make the odd post with non-actionable information, though pretty soon I won't have access to AC at all for seven months so.. yea.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 23, 2013, 06:37:00 PM

Atlantis flushed the Submariner sealock...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 23, 2013, 07:04:22 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 24, 2013, 06:13:30 AM

Quote

ALL victory types allowed

That means Cooperative Victory too.
Wouldn't the game soon turn to a 2 vs 2?

Otherwise: I won't be able to play until 1AM CET tonight.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 24, 2013, 12:26:52 PM

Technically, yes, the game could end like that. But I imagine most of you would prefer a win on your own than a shared win, and this allows temporary alliances to have a chance at becoming permanent.

And I need some votes on the extra rule proposed before.
Either:
1. No attacking Bree Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods at sea with units that have the Marine Detachment ability.
Or:
2. Any Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods captured from the Bree must be immediately disbanded.

This prevents humans from taking advantage of killing a large Bree base in order to steal 2-4 Colony Pods with Marine Detachment, and will reduce micromanagement of lots of small bases later on for everyone.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 12:56:16 PM

I wont participate in a permanent alliance, just putting that out there. I would hope the others feel the same way

I vote against making a new rule


Ete, no access for 7 months? Are you taking a vacation on the mars colony?  :P

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 24, 2013, 01:25:02 PM

Traveling around asia. I'll have internet sometimes, but only on a chromebook which can't run programs in general other than chrome, which includes Alpha Centauri. So I can comment/read , but not actually check up on the game.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 02:27:29 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 03:10:39 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 24, 2013, 04:23:50 PM

sub ;yang; man

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 06:22:29 PM

I think you forgot to upload the turn, Geo. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 24, 2013, 06:56:19 PM

Done now (see last post of previous page).  :-[

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 24, 2013, 08:05:07 PM

Quote from: ete on October 24, 2013, 12:26:52 PM

And I need some votes on the extra rule proposed before.
Either:
1. No attacking Bree Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods at sea with units that have the Marine Detachment ability.
Or:
2. Any Sea Colony Pods/Escape Pods captured from the Bree must be immediately disbanded.

This prevents humans from taking advantage of killing a large Bree base in order to steal 2-4 Colony Pods with Marine Detachment, and will reduce micromanagement of lots of small bases later on for everyone.

One could use those pods to increase the population of existing bases as well.
I'd say no restrictions on spoils of war or limited use of abilities, thus if a Bree base is captured, all what comes from it should be considered gifts. ;)

Quote from: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:05:15 PM

Can anyone start a new game with this new alphax? I've just discovered I can't, there is a screen with the Pirates, but no Planetfall follows and I need to alt+del+ctl.

At my end, a custom start blocks the game at the leader intro screen (the leader you last started a game with prior to the bug). Quick start lets you play with aforementioned leader.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 24, 2013, 11:26:44 PM

To the Technos.

And No to the rule proposition.
As has been said  by Ete, it shall be hard enough to take a Bree base that one can enjoy the benefits. And one needs to have marine detachments to benefit. It's costly and not anytime soon, at least for the Hive and probably Domai too.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 25, 2013, 12:45:33 PM

Okay, no rule against stealing Bree pods. In that case, I'd suggest that as a possible strategy at some point when you have some free military if there's a largeish bree base with only 1-2 defenders. Marine Detachment is key to most naval wars already, so you'll want ships with it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 02:50:29 PM

Turned. As for cooperative victory, it actually puzzles me why it's there. Maybe you can win with the AI, but it's BS just the same. Anyway, please let's not do any perma alliances. One winner will do.

Geo, I have the same. It's probably something to do with the custom factions line, there's bit messy there.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 03:18:50 PM

If the AI is down to a few scattered bases and a human player is clearly the winner over the rest, no real need to play it out at that point i guess.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 25, 2013, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 02:50:29 PM

Geo, I have the same. It's probably something to do with the custom factions line, there's bit messy there.

That's why I posted it, to let you know you're not alone.  ;)

Yo, ;yang;, things have moved!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 25, 2013, 04:47:17 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 05:10:48 PM

 sea domai

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 05:15:08 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 25, 2013, 06:41:55 PM

Contact! ;llap

All yours, ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 25, 2013, 06:53:18 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 07:00:15 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 07:32:02 PM

Wasnt expecting a 3-res hoverboat at my HQ already...things are getting interesting here

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 25, 2013, 07:56:45 PM

 ;grrr

To  ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 25, 2013, 10:05:34 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 07:32:02 PM

Wasnt expecting a 3-res hoverboat at my HQ already...things are getting interesting here

@atlantis

Hope you've got a decent defense!

And be glad the Bree won't have decent weapons to go with their good armor for a long time to come :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 26, 2013, 09:03:50 AM

WARNING: The Bree have discovered Secrets of the Human Brain!

Question: During the other turns, my explored areas would stay lit but this time the fog of war has taken them back!  ???  It just let me know what's in (bonus tile, fungus,...
Something to do about it?

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 26, 2013, 09:10:21 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on October 26, 2013, 09:03:50 AM

Question: During the other turns, my explored areas would stay lit but this time the fog of war has taken them back!  ???  It just let me know what's in (bonus tile, fungus,...
Something to do about it?

I've had the same during my turn.
I was out too long for SMACX, but is it normal one can see native life the turn after you discovered it and is outside LOS of units and bases, but still within sight of a recently popped sonar pod?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 26, 2013, 11:44:53 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on October 26, 2013, 09:03:50 AM

WARNING: The Bree have discovered Secrets of the Human Brain!

Question: During the other turns, my explored areas would stay lit but this time the fog of war has taken them back!  ???  It just let me know what's in (bonus tile, fungus,...
Something to do about it?

To the Technos

It's a game setting, display only. It lets you know which squares you actually know what's going on in (what units are there), and which squares you've viewed but don't have vision of currently. Change it in preferences if you want, but someone else seems to prefer it the way it is now so you may have to switch back and forth a lot.

@Geo: If I understand you correctly, yes I think that is normal.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 26, 2013, 12:51:42 PM

Quote from: ete on October 26, 2013, 11:44:53 AM

@Geo: If I understand you correctly, yes I think that is normal.

Good. Thought it was a visibility remnant from when you created the scenario.  :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 26, 2013, 01:01:47 PM

Vishniac and Geo, everything's fine if I read you correctly. Fog of war can be toggled in the map display.

Met Bree. She sure looks tough.

on to the Drones.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 26, 2013, 01:44:20 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 26, 2013, 01:01:47 PM

Vishniac and Geo, everything's fine if I read you correctly. Fog of war can be toggled in the map display.

That's good to know! I wouldn't want to explore twice the same areas.

Quote

Met Bree. She sure looks tough.

I should feel lucky for the moment then. Their only unit I spotted was a scout patrol.
They have already 3-res hoverboat? Ouch!  :o

Another drawback of the almighty Bree is that they render the powergraph almost unreadable. Impossible to know which human is ahead of the others in tech/pop/military/... And the power curves are very flat for us compared with the Bree one going right through the roof... ::)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 26, 2013, 04:29:50 PM

My best military unit has a 15 to 16 chance attacking against a 60% damage 3res hoverboat...nice

I have a feeling we will all end up getting killed by the bree here If they have any followup attack i will probably get toasted(or just  trapped unable to move in my bases, i am ''safe'' with synth metal units) , and they seem to grow very fast per turn in strength compared to us, or atleast me.

It was i who turned fog of war on:i disabled it so it should be back to normal. Of course its just a visual indicator of what you can see, doesnt actually conceal or reveal more units either way.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 26, 2013, 05:42:00 PM

The Bree have level 3 armor at the start so in early game attacking them is a terrible idea, but putting level 2-3 armor on your units should keep them for doing much damage. They'll be tough and annoying, but they won't be able to outplay a faction in human hands (I played the early chunk of a game as the atlants as a test actually, as well as running an all AI test for a few 100 turns. The Bree feel MUCH stronger at the start than they turn out to be, they get fung bonus for nuts and mins which is awesome at the start, but leaves them dead for tech later on.).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 26, 2013, 06:19:09 PM

Am I... am I late to the party?!  :hunter:

Sent to ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 27, 2013, 10:20:16 AM

Quote from: ete on October 26, 2013, 05:42:00 PM

The Bree have level 3 armor at the start so in early game attacking them is a terrible idea, but putting level 2-3 armor on your units should keep them for doing much damage.

I like this advice.
I'd like it even more if I wasn't still researching my first tech, thus being unable to have armor till...many turns in the future.  :D

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2013, 01:50:25 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2013, 01:55:32 PM

ete, the problem with beefed up AI in MP games is not that they defeat you, but can inflict enough damage or tie your resources for other human players to outpace you. Losing two sea formers at this point would be a disaster, not to mention losing a base (a Bree panzerboat is just next to my base; even cancelling orders and hiding formers in bases is a pain in the neck, unless other players have to do the same).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 27, 2013, 02:13:44 PM

Quote from: Kirov on October 27, 2013, 01:55:32 PM

...; even cancelling orders and hiding formers in bases is a pain in the neck, unless other players have to do the same).

Same can happen when native life appears near your bases.  :dunno:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2013, 02:18:34 PM

But it can be countered with basic units and you know the threat and how to handle it. Conversely, enough damage from Bree and a player may be out of the race. Just something to consider when CMNing, I'm not saying it must happen this time.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 27, 2013, 03:01:07 PM

I already lost 100+ worth of minerals to that hoverboat and my scouts just location a second, healthy boat inbound from the other direction :/ Maybe it is my fault for thinking the AI wouldnt attack units behind my HQ at turn 12(!)

I can only hope others suffer similar levels of damage

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 27, 2013, 03:50:17 PM

Such is life...

2120 to ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 27, 2013, 09:19:41 PM

"It rains the same on the bad and the good guys."
Watchmen

I was lucky but it didn't last long: Bree naval unit in my territorial waters!

Turn rate: I'll have erratic hours to play my turns this week and not much time, but at least once a day perhaps more.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2013, 12:48:23 PM

I don't want to worry anyone, but I've just discovered I don't play on Transcend. Please check if your second worker is a drone or the SE price. We can all play the lower level, but usually in such cases there's a mix of difficulties and we need to restart.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 28, 2013, 01:09:06 PM

The free drones have no SE switch possible and as a result of a faction ability dont recieve a second drone. No idea what my difficulty level is unfortunately

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 28, 2013, 04:26:18 PM

The second citizen of all my bases is a worker (unmodified), so I'm definitely not on Transcend.
No extra info about my faction's police bonus in the base screen, so I gather it is not in effect yet.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 28, 2013, 08:28:04 PM

2nd citizen (unmodified) is not a drone.
Changing to Police State cost 24EC

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 28, 2013, 11:31:32 PM

ah crap, i was sure i'd done force current difficulty and set transcend.. i guess the choice now is reset or play on? if everyone's same level at least.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2013, 01:38:29 PM

On to the Drones.

ete, I'm 100% sure this option is bugged somehow. I had the same with my scenario and the "force" option was definitely on. The only thing you can do is test a given scenario and if it doesn't work properly, just click and unclick that option several times, then try again. You know, like restarting a Windows 98 computer. :)

EDIT: aah, I just needed to say it - this morning I was sworn in as a sworn translator of English. The red tape was long, but I'm finally nearing the end. Time to celebrate tonight!  :danc:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on October 29, 2013, 01:54:40 PM

Something's odd with that option.. maybe something happens which resets it to default difficulty even if you turn it off. Annoying. And other than today, I am not going to have even an hour free with an AC enabled computer for seven months, so it's probably best to play on?

And congratulations on becoming a qualified translator!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2013, 02:07:20 PM

It's still possible (and even likely, I'm afraid) that Kata is on Transcend. We need to check it and in the worst-case scenario, t_ras or some other CMN can fix it for us.

ete, can you send your copy of the game to t_ras, BU or somebody else?

Kata, attached is an older save with PlaNet pre-accepted and sent to you. Can you check your level?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 29, 2013, 02:44:36 PM

It costs 24 EC to switch to planned

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2013, 02:51:21 PM

So I guess we can play on.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 29, 2013, 04:04:11 PM

I am not so sure. We may all be off transcend, but what difficulty are we on?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 29, 2013, 04:08:41 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 29, 2013, 06:29:22 PM

To  ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 30, 2013, 06:17:19 AM

To the Technos
(could have played sooner but there was a server error here)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 30, 2013, 12:28:34 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 30, 2013, 01:39:12 PM

@atlantis

Title: Onwards...
Post by: Geo on October 30, 2013, 04:50:11 PM

;yang;'d...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on October 30, 2013, 11:44:53 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on October 31, 2013, 12:05:32 PM

and to seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 31, 2013, 01:21:08 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on October 31, 2013, 10:28:01 PM

Sorry for the delay, there was dinner a hundred clicks from home this evening. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 01, 2013, 04:28:39 PM

And I am back from my international conference. I can resume a more aggressive schedule.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 01, 2013, 04:40:28 PM

onwards

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 01, 2013, 05:44:33 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 01, 2013, 06:46:22 PM

To the Submariners.

In other news, the Kingdom invites all known faction leaders to next years' inauguration party of the Weather Paradigm.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 01, 2013, 07:13:57 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 01, 2013, 06:46:22 PM

In other news, the Kingdom invites all known faction leaders to next years' inauguration party of the Weather Paradigm.

Impressive!
Alas you won't be honored by the presence of Chairman Yang: the Bree are making maritime roads dangerous and pressing matters require him at home at all time.
(Theres is also the little detail that...we wouldn't know where to find you  :D)

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 01, 2013, 11:26:41 PM

I played this turn on my gf's laptop with vanilla GOG, I think it should be fine this one time.

And indeed, our leader of Atlantians, impressive job to build a secret project in such hostile environment. We'd love to send our ambassador. Where can we find you? :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 02, 2013, 12:50:31 AM

Domai of the Sea Drones would like to congratulate you on a fine effort of industrial coordination in constructing such a great project, but regretfully is unable to attend the ceremonies due to hostile forces roaming our waters.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 02, 2013, 12:42:13 PM

On behalf of the Queen, our thanks for your best wishes. :)
It was indeed a tremendous effort, and costed a hefty penny, but in the end it turned out well.

Turned to Chairman ;yang; of the Submariners.

Quote from: Kirov on November 01, 2013, 11:26:41 PM

We'd love to send our ambassador. Where can we find you? :)

Follow the Deep Trench twothirds of its length, turn under on the fifth wave and follow until the second sea on the left. Surface on the third shelf on the right and you're almost there then. But not to worry, one of our Armored Boats of the Great White Fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_White_Fleet) is bound to make a courtesy call soon enough. :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 02, 2013, 01:25:43 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2013, 02:57:08 PM

Interesting game so far. For anyone who didn't know already - the difficulty is 2 levels lower, so we have 3 free workers before police, 4 for the Drones.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 02, 2013, 03:03:17 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 02, 2013, 03:21:20 PM

Wow, a guy would be loath to do groceries here! The turn is back already? :danc:

Over to Chairman Vishniac.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 02, 2013, 04:51:41 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 02, 2013, 02:57:08 PM

Interesting game so far. For anyone who didn't know already - the difficulty is 2 levels lower, so we have 3 free workers before police, 4 for the Drones.

And that's not really to my liking as it negates some of the short-term advantages of The Hive: mainly police and support from Police State. Now everybody can just put a second scout with non-lethal methods and go to pop 7 without problem.
Shall the Virtual World even be built since the Technos have not the drone problem of the University?

It also mitigates the threat of the Bree. At Librarian, they are just a nuisance ready to be abused...and abused they will be!  8)

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 02, 2013, 04:58:32 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 02, 2013, 04:51:41 PM

And that's not really to my liking as it negates some of the short-term advantages of The Hive: mainly police and support from Police State. Now everybody can just put a second scout with non-lethal methods and go to pop 7 without problem.

If it's any comfort, it diminishes one of my faction SE settings as well.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2013, 05:04:47 PM

on to seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 02, 2013, 07:51:41 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on November 02, 2013, 08:18:05 PM

Impressive build, especially with a not particularly builder focused faction in fairly mineral poor environment. I wonder how much that focus will set you back in terms of fewer sea bases early, and how quickly it'll pay itself off by meaning you need half as many of those expensive sea formers as anyone else.

With my upcoming LOA, I'd like to pass the passwords and keys to the game over to another CMN, are the players okay with that? And do any of you have a current game against a CMN in which you use the same password, so don't want the keys passed to them?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 02, 2013, 08:59:00 PM

Quote from: ete on November 02, 2013, 08:18:05 PM

Impressive build, especially with a not particularly builder focused faction in fairly mineral poor environment. I wonder how much that focus will set you back in terms of fewer sea bases early, and how quickly it'll pay itself off by meaning you need half as many of those expensive sea formers as anyone else.

Word is the Bree are more easy to conquer then initially thought? ;cute

Quote from: ete on November 02, 2013, 08:18:05 PM

With my upcoming LOA, I'd like to pass the passwords and keys to the game over to another CMN, are the players okay with that? And do any of you have a current game against a CMN in which you use the same password, so don't want the keys passed to them?

No problem for me on both accounts.
Enjoy your trip, and do post a picture now and then of your whereabouts. :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 02, 2013, 09:09:21 PM

Oh, and here's the turn.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 03, 2013, 12:28:51 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2013, 06:43:48 PM

onwards

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 03, 2013, 06:51:46 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 03, 2013, 08:37:25 PM

We have a go for the third mission decade!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 03, 2013, 10:08:45 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2013, 12:47:07 AM

seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 04, 2013, 01:40:02 AM

Has time started flowing backwards in your parts? ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2013, 02:40:42 AM

Sorry, glitch in the Matrix. :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 04, 2013, 02:49:15 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 04, 2013, 04:46:46 PM

;yang;, enjoy. :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 05:10:21 PM

Holy Christ, Man! What was with the smiley? I was waiting for some bad surprise.

WARNING: The Bree have started The Human Genome Project AND The Merchant Exchange

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2013, 05:25:44 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 04, 2013, 05:33:00 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 05:10:21 PM

Holy Christ, Man! What was with the smiley? I was waiting for some bad surprise.

Just checkin' if you're really into the game. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 04, 2013, 05:39:33 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 04, 2013, 06:10:55 PM

To ;yang;. ;...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 08:09:38 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2013, 08:28:21 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 04, 2013, 09:14:52 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 04, 2013, 09:20:03 PM

Last turn of today.

To the Submariners.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 09:36:58 PM

Just a question.
Fighting a Bree-hoverboat with naval artillery, what's stronger: morale or armor?
This alien SCUM is becoming irritating but I have a hardened gunfoil.
Your advice?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 10:19:54 PM

Ok, I took my responsibilities concerning naval combat...

WARNING: The Bree have started The Empath Guild.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2013, 11:05:26 PM

If I recall correctly, an artillery duel between ships is weapon vs. weapon, adjusted by morale. Armor doesn't play a role here (and thanks for reminding me about it, I'm always forgetting about this option).

Does your recent battle confirm this?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 04, 2013, 11:37:21 PM

It confirms indeed!  8)
My hardened gunfoil sank the cursed 3-res disciplined Bree hoverboat.

I am usually not particularly knowledgeable about the game but when you have 2 enemy vessels threatening 3 seaformers, memories come back!
The datalinks told me about armor being bypassed but I wasn't sure whether morale would play a role or not. Glad it did.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 05, 2013, 01:12:52 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 05, 2013, 05:26:59 AM

First turn of the day to El Chairman.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 05, 2013, 06:21:58 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 05, 2013, 03:00:00 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 05, 2013, 03:51:04 PM

T';yang;!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 05, 2013, 05:35:31 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2013, 05:48:33 PM

I hate Bree.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 05, 2013, 09:50:18 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 05, 2013, 10:24:32 PM

Turned to the Submariners, but there's a but...

Checking on the messages (zoom to message button), I repeatedly had a CTD. Must have happened 4 or 5 times before I decided to skip them and try if things work when only moving my units.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 06, 2013, 03:21:21 AM

Quote from: Kirov on November 05, 2013, 05:48:33 PM

I hate Bree.

In the last 5 turns, I have identified 5 different hoverboats around my bases. They have now enforced total naval interdiction! Until technology kicks in, I am reduced to managing bases... :-\  Others don't say much but the powergraph says it all!
I think we are lucky that we're finally only playing at Librarian.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2013, 03:34:22 AM

Yeah, I think we should get rid of her. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 06, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Luckily the AI doesnt usually gang tackle HQ bases with large packs of low-attack units

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 06, 2013, 09:37:51 AM

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 06, 2013, 03:51:39 PM

Someone knows which improvements Scient's Patch gave to the AI?

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2013, 06:04:01 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 06, 2013, 08:10:42 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 06, 2013, 09:25:50 PM

On y va! ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 06, 2013, 10:08:01 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 06, 2013, 04:40:33 AM

Luckily the AI doesnt usually gang tackle HQ bases with large packs of low-attack units

I don't know: one of them just attacked my HQ, I hope others don't follow.
With my defense perimeters, I feel like the man in Jaws feeling secure in his underwater cage...until the shark breaks in!  :o

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2013, 12:32:49 AM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 07, 2013, 01:46:28 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 07, 2013, 02:47:55 PM

To the Submariners.

Note that I experienced another CTD due to clicking on a kelp growth message, so you'll see one reload.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 07, 2013, 03:49:05 PM

Ive been seeing alot of kelp growth messages that obviously belong to other factions, when i load an older save to try zooming to them they always cause CTDs

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 07, 2013, 04:54:47 PM

Obviously a bug. Simply erasing them doesn't seem to cause a crash.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2013, 06:51:07 PM

I can confirm, it's a permanent bug, crashes for forest growth, kelp growth and probably also fungal pop.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 07, 2013, 07:43:18 PM

Now the question is if it's something introduced by Scient, or happens because we're actually playing with a mixed Yitzi-Scient patch.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 07, 2013, 08:47:53 PM

I dont know about the crashing part, but getting kelp\forest growth messages indicating someone elses distant base has been around forever, at least IIRC

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 07, 2013, 09:12:14 PM

You mean its in the same ballpark like those messages coming up about changed precipitation levels (someone lifting or decreasing altitude)? Makes sense...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 07, 2013, 09:54:36 PM

No problem for me with messages.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2013, 10:02:50 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 07, 2013, 10:28:24 PM

Bree sporelaunchers.... ::)

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 08, 2013, 05:33:14 AM

Almost the fourth decade...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 08, 2013, 06:17:28 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 08, 2013, 08:22:55 AM

Quote from: Geo on November 08, 2013, 05:33:14 AM

Almost the fourth decade...

I must say I'm impressed by our turnover. Good job, us!  ;b;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 08, 2013, 08:24:56 AM

And the turn. :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 08, 2013, 08:33:48 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 08, 2013, 03:04:39 PM

Hostiles in sight! :stickpoke:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 08, 2013, 05:16:39 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 08, 2013, 03:04:39 PM

Hostiles in sight! :stickpoke:

Only now?

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 08, 2013, 05:25:29 PM

Maybe he means one of us. Looks like an aggressive guy.

Meanwhile, happy fourth decade, guys! We made it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 08, 2013, 05:46:37 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 08, 2013, 05:25:29 PM

Maybe he means one of us. Looks like an aggressive guy.

You call me aggressive??! ;marr;
No, it is as Vishniac assumed, only now the Bree have 'found' me. ;)
But they're too late, I should be easy to hold them at arms' length now.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 08, 2013, 05:48:29 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 08, 2013, 06:34:45 PM

To Chairman Vishniac-ji ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 08, 2013, 07:10:39 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 08, 2013, 05:46:37 PM

...only now the Bree have 'found' me. ;)
But they're too late, I should be easy to hold them at arms' length now.

Bold words...but The Hive doesn't believe them.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2013, 12:26:43 AM

You're not fooling anybody, Geo.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 09, 2013, 12:44:13 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 09, 2013, 05:10:46 AM

To the UnBelieving ;yang;...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 07:05:36 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2013, 03:34:03 PM

That's an impressive project collection you're trying to get, our dear Chairman. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 04:18:54 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 09, 2013, 03:34:03 PM

That's an impressive project collection you're trying to get, our dear Chairman. ;)

They are mostly placeholders for minerals while I desperately try to reach new weapon techs. I can build nothing able to ease my situation right now.
And that I lead the human powergraph tells volumes about your situation too...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 09, 2013, 05:15:59 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2013, 05:21:17 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 04:18:54 PM

I desperately try to reach new weapon techs.

Why do I always get to play with berserkers? Why have I yet to meet a pacifist like me? Maybe I should consider playing Farmville or something...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 06:33:09 PM

A conqueror is always a lover of peace.
Carl von Clausewitz

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 09, 2013, 11:07:40 PM

To the Secret Factories! :o

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 08:00:23 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 12:28:37 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 06:33:09 PM

A conqueror is always a lover of peace.
Carl von Clausewitz

So by the same token, a dictator is a lover of human rights? Hm... ;)

Meanwhile, to the Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 10, 2013, 12:49:42 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 12:28:37 PM

So by the same token, a dictator is a lover of human rights? Hm... ;)

Never heard of benevolence? ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 01:14:25 PM

So first Vishniac will 'love some peace', and then you'll bring 'benevolence' on my a...? Got it. Truly, isn't English evolving.  :o

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 04:33:08 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 12:28:37 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 09, 2013, 06:33:09 PM

A conqueror is always a lover of peace.
Carl von Clausewitz

So by the same token, a dictator is a lover of human rights? Hm... ;)

The complete quote is:
The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 10, 2013, 05:09:31 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 04:33:08 PM

The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed.

And so internal strife enters the equation. :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 10, 2013, 05:37:19 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 10, 2013, 07:56:27 PM

To the industrious ;yang;!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 11:08:50 PM

These Bree are a creeping Death!
I fear I won't last long... :'(

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 10, 2013, 11:18:21 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 11:08:50 PM

I fear I won't last long... :'(

The Kingdom is hard-pressed to believe such defeatists statements!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 11:28:49 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 10, 2013, 11:08:50 PM

These Bree are a creeping Death!
I fear I won't last long... :'(

Did you lose a base or build 3 colony pods? Interesting. Anyway, I'm really sorry to hear that Bree is a lover of peace, this is so unfair to you.

On unrelated news, the Technocrats rejoice as all their means of transportation, boats, canoes, rafts, barrels, truck tires and all kinds of flotsam and jetsam are sewn together seamlessly into the Planetary Transit System. Several days' worth of celebrations with total strangers is expected to result in a sharp surge of their birth rate. Nudge nudge.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2013, 11:29:30 PM

Oh, I even forgot to attach my turn in all this excitement.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 10, 2013, 11:39:24 PM

The Sea Drones are pleased to announce the Virtual World is poised for completion.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 11, 2013, 12:56:15 AM

The Kingdom is pleased that the majority is pleased. :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 11, 2013, 06:09:47 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2013, 12:17:26 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 11, 2013, 06:04:28 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 11, 2013, 07:15:30 PM

Over to Chairman Vishniac.

Quite a change in the chart stats this turn.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 11, 2013, 08:59:06 PM

+17 pop in one turn?
That's...impressive, yes!

A mechanism question:
Something strange with my HQ: I was at pop 5 with no drone (3 workers unmodified and 2 wanna-be drones with 2 scouts acting as police). The base then turned 6, I foresaw that and changed a worker into librarian. So I was thinking the future drone would be turned into a specialist and no problem. I have less than 10 bases and it's the HQ so no inefficiency.
Now I have drone riots!  ???
Did I miss anything about the drone mechanism?

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2013, 09:25:27 PM

Don't worry guys, the PTS does that. Fortunately, I'm up to no evil.

Vishniac, subsequent population always comes as drones, so you should pick a doctor and not librarian to accomodate for that. Simply put, you received -2 PSYCH but you didn't counter it with any talent or doctor.

You can also send me some technology. I'm not sure if it helps, the game design is fuzzy here, but it definitely won't hurt. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 11, 2013, 09:34:12 PM

Ok! Well, I put a doctor but it won't help my abysmal research rate. I should inform myself more in the datalinks.

WARNING!
I forgot to say:
- the Bree have started the Planetary Energy Grid
- the Bree are close to finishing the Human Genome Project.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 11, 2013, 09:43:05 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 11, 2013, 10:01:03 PM

One more turn... to ;yang;.

+17 pop? That's at least 10 bases growing to size 3. ???

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 11, 2013, 10:50:20 PM

WARNING!
- The Bree have completed the Human Genome Project
- The Bree are nearing completion of the Empath Guild

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2013, 10:55:57 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 11, 2013, 11:56:49 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 12, 2013, 07:30:21 AM

>> ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 12, 2013, 05:18:44 PM

WARNING!
The Bree have completed the Empath Guild

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2013, 05:36:20 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 12, 2013, 06:20:54 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 12, 2013, 06:57:33 PM

Two One Four Nine on its way!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 12, 2013, 07:19:50 PM

WARNING!
The Bree are nearing completion of the Merchant Exchange.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on November 13, 2013, 11:58:40 AM

What do the current SP screen and power graph look like (crop out map and stuff to avoid any info reveal)? I can't open saves from here, but it'd be cool to see how the game is going to some extent.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 13, 2013, 01:51:41 PM

Bree still sits sky-high, Kirov made a nice jump dude to the Planetary Transit project, Kata follows a third lower on the bar, I'm trailkng him, with Vishniac sitting lowest.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2013, 03:42:30 PM

onwards!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 13, 2013, 04:51:43 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 13, 2013, 03:42:30 PM

onwards!

Oh, and here I was thinking you were enjoying a gene therapy in some sort of tank. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 13, 2013, 06:49:47 PM

Here you go ete


(http://s22.postimg.org/8e7ytqbjx/SP_report.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8e7ytqbjx/)


@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 13, 2013, 07:06:44 PM

Forwarded to ;yang;.

I simply don't find a way to make intelligible ingame screenshots. :(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 13, 2013, 07:57:18 PM

To the Technos
(Bree still nearing completion of Merchant Exchange)

(I know: the colors don't match. It's the infamous faction bug and NO I don't want to take 5min to remedy... :D)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 13, 2013, 08:29:39 PM

As long as you realize you're looking quite pinkish in my game. ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2013, 08:49:03 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 13, 2013, 09:53:09 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 14, 2013, 07:41:25 PM

Sorry for the delay. Woke up too late this morning, and overtime at work. :wall:
To the Submariners.

Do you guys have some words of your posts turned to add/spam links as well? Merely Highlighting them shows a window with an advertisement/spam in it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 14, 2013, 08:20:04 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 14, 2013, 07:41:25 PM

Do you guys have some words of your posts turned to add/spam links as well? Merely Highlighting them shows a window with an advertisement/spam in it.

No.

WARNING!
- The Bree have completed the Merchant Exchange.
- The Hive will have completed the Command Nexus next year.  8) 

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 14, 2013, 08:24:45 PM

Found out what it is: and add-on from Mozilla Firefox. :mad:
Disabled now.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 14, 2013, 08:35:50 PM

(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Firefox/i-love-maxthon.gif)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 14, 2013, 08:42:07 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 14, 2013, 08:35:50 PM

(http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Firefox/i-love-maxthon.gif)

You live in China? ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 14, 2013, 08:49:13 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 14, 2013, 09:32:58 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 14, 2013, 09:55:40 PM

 ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 14, 2013, 10:15:03 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 15, 2013, 03:14:20 AM

Onwards to Seamen. The Planetary Energy Grid is poised for completion. It's too big to fail, so please give me your money if my shady schemes result in a financial crisis. Speaking of which, do your drones need any mortgage? Because we're happy to provide some. After us, the Deluge. So to say. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 15, 2013, 04:12:28 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 15, 2013, 07:09:24 AM

To Vishniac.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 15, 2013, 05:53:12 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 15, 2013, 10:35:38 PM

to the Katas.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 16, 2013, 01:39:00 AM

Ive been getting alot of ''internal server error 500'' and having difficulty accessing this board, same for you guys?

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 16, 2013, 09:27:52 AM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 16, 2013, 01:39:00 AM

Ive been getting alot of ''internal server error 500'' and having difficulty accessing this board, same for you guys?

Yes. Quite annoying.

To ;yang;!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 16, 2013, 12:06:01 PM

WARNING!
The Bree have started the Xenoempathy Dome.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 16, 2013, 04:54:51 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 16, 2013, 06:45:03 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 16, 2013, 10:14:34 PM

Forwarded...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 17, 2013, 03:29:34 PM

Additional save by the Atlantes.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 17, 2013, 05:12:30 PM

Aargh! Bree took my base! And I thought I'll just buy it back! And I can't since she's immune to mind control! Curses and shiver me timbers!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 17, 2013, 05:35:07 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 17, 2013, 10:29:49 PM

To ;yang;.

Bloody hell, the Bree look unbeatable, and they're starting to field Impact units. :o

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 18, 2013, 06:12:45 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: JarlWolf on November 18, 2013, 08:31:00 AM

You know, I kind of follow the posts off and on here, and it seems the bree have been a real thorn for everyone... sounds like a bit of cooperation is in order? Let the enemies of your enemy be your friend, and stab each other later?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on November 18, 2013, 09:53:24 AM

Jarl's suggestion may be useful, at least for tech trading. Wonder if any of you guys have started that yet?

And thanks for the update pictures guys :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 18, 2013, 04:14:09 PM

Quote from: ete on November 18, 2013, 09:53:24 AM

Jarl's suggestion may be useful, at least for tech trading. Wonder if any of you guys have started that yet?

As I remember the rules prohibit to contact someone without meeting in game.
Due to the Bree blockade, it's been easily 20 turns since my last exploration and everybody trying to reach me will probably suffer a quick death  by the aliens.

For me, it's now turtling until my plan comes together (wishing it does before the Bree reach Air Power  :-\)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 18, 2013, 05:04:45 PM

Yes, it's illegal to discuss detailed stuff or trade, although I'd be more lenient to sharing here some most general information like "I have a bad luck" or something. Definitely nothing in private without contact, though.

I wasted a lot of minerals for proper exploration and I can't seem to leave my territory for a prolonged time. Bree has huge amounts of navy and whatever she overlooks, native life will finish.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 18, 2013, 05:16:19 PM

Not sure what i can say about faction contacts without breaking the no-talk rule

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 18, 2013, 05:40:54 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 18, 2013, 05:16:19 PM

Not sure what i can say about faction contacts without breaking the no-talk rule

My take is, I'd allow it to a reasonable extent, as it's the disclosing guy's problem to reveal info which can be useful to others. So as long as you don't shout "meet me at 72,62 so we can scheme against Kirov", I think it's fine to present some general info you want to vent or gloat about. Like I did above with the base loss thing. Personally, I'm not ready to say what is my current status with commlinks. :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 18, 2013, 05:59:38 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 18, 2013, 05:40:54 PM

My take is, I'd allow it to a reasonable extent, as it's the disclosing guy's problem to reveal info which can be useful to others...I think it's fine to present some general info you want to vent or gloat about.

The problem is: at the present moment, I have a hard time feeling in a MP game.
It seems like nothing I could say here can affect the course of my faction before a very long time in the future...and then I'll be doomed anyway  :D

But that doesn't mean The Hive won't be a tough nut to crack, make no mistake!  ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 18, 2013, 09:47:08 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 18, 2013, 05:59:38 PM

It seems like nothing I could say here can affect the course of my faction before a very long time in the future...and then I'll be doomed anyway  :D

You're giving yourself too little credit. The Submariner faction seems about to overtake the Kingdom according to the power chart. :P

Over to you, dear Chairman.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: JarlWolf on November 18, 2013, 11:28:46 PM

Looks like I whipped up a storm of subject.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 06:20:23 AM

Quote from: Geo on November 18, 2013, 09:47:08 PM

You're giving yourself too little credit. The Submariner faction seems about to overtake the Kingdom according to the power chart. :P

That just means that you'll be doomed too!  :D

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 06:30:16 AM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 07:22:27 AM

Um, we might have an issue here. I have a transport ship,guarded by a strong defensive boat, carrying two units (ill just say it, probe teams) and the 2 units onboard have completely vanished. Did someone click obsolete on the basic probe team design?

I made a midturn save so i shouldnt be making reload warnings here.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 11:28:15 AM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 07:22:27 AM

Did someone click obsolete on the basic probe team design?

That would've been me. Didn't know this would cause a MP bug.
I suppose this means I have to replay my turn to solve it?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 03:10:58 PM

Yeah, probably. I would have thought that bug would be one of the first things fixed in scient patch...really?

Lets see if kirov\vishniac can confirm first.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 03:31:26 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 07:22:27 AM

Um, we might have an issue here. I have a transport ship,guarded by a strong defensive boat, carrying two units (ill just say it, probe teams) and the 2 units onboard have completely vanished. Did someone click obsolete on the basic probe team design?

I made a midturn save so i shouldnt be making reload warnings here.

Ooh, so this is what happened.  :o Is this bug on the list? Because I had no idea.

Yeah, my unit on transport vanished for good, please let's reload.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 03:59:20 PM

Used to be, you could play gaians in smac with look first on, establish your base, then obsolete your colony pods to instantly gain a super speed conquest victory. I couldnt replicate the issue we are having here in singleplayer, however.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 04:32:45 PM

Well, here's MY 2157 again then.

There will be at least two reloads. I did some probe peeking after forwarding the turn last time, so I suppose that would be listed as well.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 04:45:22 PM

So the rule is "No obsoleting designs" ? Ok!

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 04:50:17 PM

No obsoleting basic unit designs, the ones attached to technologies and shared by all players.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 05:02:05 PM

reloaded then.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 05:17:26 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 05:48:42 PM

Avanti!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 06:10:41 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 06:19:07 PM

*sigh* I may lose an important base next turn. Curses and aargh! I thought AI almost never attacks garrisoned sea bases.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 06:21:39 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 06:19:07 PM

*sigh* I may lose an important base next turn.

On a strategic level:
/me looks forward to some extra map info...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 06:33:03 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 06:19:07 PM

I thought AI almost never attacks garrisoned sea bases.

You thought I were leaving my bases undefended for the Bree to take them? No, but they can take down a defender even with a defense perimeter so I imagine with your -2 morale...

These hoverboats are like the raptors in Jurassic Park; remember what the guard said?
"Every day they attack the fence, trying to find a weak spot".

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 06:39:05 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 06:33:03 PM

...so I imagine with your -2 morale...

I've been meaning to ask: is there a way to see the Social Engineering settings from (infiltrated?) ingame factions?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 06:47:22 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 19, 2013, 06:39:05 PM

I've been meaning to ask: is there a way to see the Social Engineering settings from (infiltrated?) ingame factions?

You open the Council onglet, right-click on the faction and choose Faction Profile.
If infiltrated, you should see their current social settings.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 06:52:32 PM

You can always see enemy SE in the faction profile. No problem with checking that even before in-game meeting.

As for Bree... I tried to expand and allocate only minimum resources to defenses. Usually you can fend off AI with a handful of cheap units no problem. But if she takes that base, that means business.  :mad:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 07:02:52 PM

Thank you. :)
Looks like I'm the only player not running Wealth. ;lol

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 07:03:37 PM

Perimiter Defences dont help against naval attacks.

The Sea Drones have some new heroes...our combat ship bravely fended off two IoDs allowing a commando team to gain infiltration into the Bree networks. Unfortunately it seems even more IoDs are closing in on their last known position, RIP brave soldiers  :P

So much for that Librarian AI stuff

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 07:12:19 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 07:03:37 PM

Perimiter Defences dont help against naval attacks.

You say WHAT?  :mad: :mad: :mad:

So they don't help against naval attacks.
I remember someone telling me that they don't help against psi attacks.
Then they're just useless in this game!

Thanks for the info, that explains how a gunfoil can kill a scout in a base. (Not that I was leaving scouts defend my bases anymore, but good to know anyway).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 07:15:48 PM

 ;yang;

Quote from: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 07:12:19 PM

I remember someone telling me that they don't help against psi attacks.

If that's true (need to check), it would go against the Citizen Defense SP movie.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 07:31:40 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 08:03:31 PM

I made it this time, just finishing a foil when she tore down my garrison. That was close. Now I only need to retake my base... Stay tuned for more news.

And yes, I'm 100% positive that PD doesn't help in either naval or psi attacks. Yes, its usefulness is quite limited to me and the PDF not only suggests wrong info in the movie but is one of the worst Projects in my opinion.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 08:33:32 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 19, 2013, 08:50:39 PM

Yay, we reached the sixth decade. At this speed we'll reach turn 100 before my vacation next Thursday starts. ;)


A question; what is the players' stance towards tech brokering for this game? On or off? Personal discretion between trading partners? Another option?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 09:10:04 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 19, 2013, 08:50:39 PM

A question; what is the players' stance towards tech brokering for this game? On or off? Personal discretion between trading partners? Another option?

I don't quite understand the question.
Tech trading is allowed for people with diplomatic relations. That's all for me.

2 Bree impact skimships in sight!  :o
If they attack, I have nothing to stop them this time...

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 19, 2013, 09:45:41 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 19, 2013, 10:11:03 PM

Personal discretion. Also the Drones maintain their stance of voting against rule count increases unless when neccesary

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 20, 2013, 03:18:41 PM

 ;yang;'d

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 20, 2013, 04:37:48 PM

Under attacks!!  :-\

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 20, 2013, 05:24:47 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 20, 2013, 04:37:48 PM

Under attacks!!  :-\

Don't worry, I opened my turn to see 4 combats lost. And there are sunflares. YAFUT. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 20, 2013, 05:53:45 PM

That was unexpected.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 20, 2013, 06:33:39 PM

I can't see if there's any interesting events last turn! :mad:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 20, 2013, 07:18:00 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 19, 2013, 09:10:04 PM

2 Bree impact skimships in sight!  :o
If they attack, I have nothing to stop them this time...

I have lost the second of my first 3 bases...
I won't be a contender for victory I am afraid.  :'(

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 20, 2013, 08:55:01 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 20, 2013, 07:18:00 PM

I have lost the second of my first 3 bases...
I won't be a contender for victory I am afraid.  :'(

That's most bad. :( I hope you manage to defend.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 20, 2013, 09:13:38 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 20, 2013, 10:05:49 PM

Save that Escape Pod if you can, Chairman!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 21, 2013, 05:41:52 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 21, 2013, 02:35:12 PM

How are things going, Vishniac? Any luck fending off the hordes? :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 21, 2013, 03:08:14 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 21, 2013, 03:54:27 PM

To ;yang;.

Quote from: Kirov on November 21, 2013, 02:35:12 PM

How are things going, Vishniac? Any luck fending off the hordes? :)

His population count increased since last turn, so I suppose he's still runnin'. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 21, 2013, 04:38:03 PM

Thanks for your kind words but...
I thought I would have time to catch my breath while his impactors heal but he switched production of my former base to autobuild one more! :o
He's now already attacking another base...

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 21, 2013, 09:36:05 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 21, 2013, 10:41:51 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 22, 2013, 05:21:38 AM

Next!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 22, 2013, 06:22:07 AM

I had 2 heavy-mineral bases, I just lost one... It wasn't undefended, it had 2 synthmetal defenders.

3/5 of their remaining hoverboats are against me.
3/4 of their impact skimships are against me.
When they had 15 hoverboats (some 20 turns ago), 7 were against me... :o
I don't know what triggered such a fury. Perhaps because I was the human leading at the time, perhaps because my bases are the closest of theirs...
I wouldn't play differently my former turns if I could, I didn't let any loophole.
I shall hold all though.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 22, 2013, 01:02:34 PM

I would have to say the Bree are definitely hitting you much harder than we are seeing in the Sea Drones...unfortunately the AI is not very consistent about spreading its attacks around. According to my intel there isnt any units around that could threaten a Sea Drone base. Its my current belief the AI is a bit broken as regards to balance, so i guess im saying i dont see it as your fault for getting knocked out here. The bree were supposed to be like a fungus inhibiting human growth but because water favours offensive attacks, impact weapons on foils are much greater than speeders or infantry, so its very problematic to get attacked hard.

I think going back to the drawing board, the bree should have been split into 3 AI maybe, or maybe give a -5 research penalty and carefully control what units they have available. This wouldnt be so big a problem if they were using low-morale Isle of the Deeps to attack with. And maybe make a custom IoD that has slow tag, or give all bree units the slow unit ability free. Just some random thoughts here

To be honest, the Sea Drones are more concerned about managing eco damage from minerals than any Bree invasion  :P

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 22, 2013, 09:43:32 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 22, 2013, 10:09:13 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 22, 2013, 10:22:30 PM

Sorry for the delay, I lost track in SMAniaC. ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 23, 2013, 09:51:54 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 24, 2013, 04:02:15 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 24, 2013, 04:35:16 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 24, 2013, 06:05:53 PM

Oh no's. ;...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 24, 2013, 06:21:08 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 24, 2013, 06:58:53 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 24, 2013, 07:12:56 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 24, 2013, 08:06:08 PM

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 24, 2013, 09:16:40 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 24, 2013, 09:33:00 PM

congrats on most efficient popboom, Foreman! :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 24, 2013, 09:46:43 PM

thank you :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 24, 2013, 10:08:49 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 24, 2013, 09:33:00 PM

congrats on most efficient popboom, Foreman! :)

Shouldn't we be congratulating you as well for the first reconquesta on Planet? ;)

That -30% on psi combat really hurts! :mad:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 24, 2013, 10:29:54 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 24, 2013, 10:52:26 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 24, 2013, 10:08:49 PM

Shouldn't we be congratulating you as well for the first reconquesta on Planet? ;)

That's very nice of you, but in the same year we lost another base to Bree, and it got destroyed during the reconquest. Flags are half-mast as we mourn thousands of victims of the speciest cleansing.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 24, 2013, 11:10:48 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 25, 2013, 05:06:47 AM

Don't wait on my account!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 25, 2013, 06:18:07 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 25, 2013, 04:20:32 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 25, 2013, 04:53:15 PM

Congratulations to the technos, being the first to take the lead in a powergraph category;tech.  :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 25, 2013, 05:45:36 PM

Looks like we're in a congratulations decade again? ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 25, 2013, 07:10:34 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 24, 2013, 10:08:49 PM

That -30% on psi combat really hurts! :mad:

I had to give up on Wealth or I would have faced eradication.
Now at least the Bree are losing as much or more units than me each turn but it's still tough.

Congratulations to my fellow faction leaders for their respective accomplishments!  ;b;

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 25, 2013, 07:26:43 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 25, 2013, 05:45:36 PM

Looks like we're in a congratulations decade again? ;cute

If I were cynical, I'd say that our dear Kata simply tries to drive our attention away from his doubling population in 4 years. ;) Fortunately, I'm rather naive and I'm sure that all those Seamen will find living space somewhere, so thanks for all the congrats!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 25, 2013, 07:52:18 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 25, 2013, 08:18:46 PM

Guess who comes knockin' on the door. :help:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 25, 2013, 09:12:49 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 25, 2013, 08:18:46 PM

Guess who comes knockin' on the door. :help:

No matter who: sunspot activity!  :(

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 25, 2013, 09:33:51 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 25, 2013, 10:10:30 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2013, 05:18:25 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on November 25, 2013, 09:12:49 PM

No matter who: sunspot activity!  :(

 :-X

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 26, 2013, 06:28:10 AM

WARNING: The Bree have completed the Xenoempathy Dome.

I had to reopen the turn.
Their was a message about fungus grow and I clicked on to "Zoom on message" because it seemed it wasn't for me. The game crashed.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 26, 2013, 04:48:44 PM

 ;domai;

So I'm not sure - can we or can't we talk to each other via PM during sunspots?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 26, 2013, 05:04:58 PM

I thought we could, and i have sent a PM or two so i hope its OK.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2013, 05:26:58 PM

We're never gonna make it. :-[

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 26, 2013, 06:09:01 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 26, 2013, 05:26:58 PM

We're never gonna make it. :-[

The Hive is gonna make it even though attacks never cease. So should you.
Of course we won't win but getting the best over the Bree is already a game in the game for us.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 26, 2013, 06:57:36 PM

I like your spirit, Vishniac, but I can't say I'm happy we get hit in a discriminate way. Bree also killed a lot of my stuff and forced me to field navy, but I believe it's different from your situation, and we're not sending these turns to have some challenge against AI. Oh well, what can we do right now. I can only honestly wish you to hit back and retake your bases. :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 26, 2013, 08:20:34 PM

Quote from: Kirov on November 26, 2013, 06:57:36 PM

...we're not sending these turns to have some challenge against AI.
I can only honestly wish you to hit back and retake your bases. :)

I will though it shall probably inspire new breath into this famous (and false) Vietnam War quote: we had to destroy the town in order to save it!
http://www.examiner.com/article/myths-of-the-vietnam-war-part-2-we-had-to-destroy-the-village (http://www.examiner.com/article/myths-of-the-vietnam-war-part-2-we-had-to-destroy-the-village)

Challenges don't stop there for me, don't worry!
The competition clearly shows 2 tier-1 nations (Technos and Drones) while I am on par with the Atlantes. My goal is also to surpass them.
Then let's not forget that Competitive Victory is active. Who will side with who? A turn of alliances can bring down even the greatest power on  the verge of his victory and the Hive can prove instrumental in this. :D

The fun only begins...but first surviving the Bree.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2013, 08:29:15 PM

Looks like we won't reach the end of the solar storm before my vacation starts.
(to remind: this Thursday until Thursday next week).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 26, 2013, 08:30:51 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 26, 2013, 09:04:32 PM

My last turn of today. Might not have much time tomorrow, but I'll do my best.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 26, 2013, 10:10:57 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 26, 2013, 10:20:32 PM

Quote from: Geo on November 26, 2013, 08:29:15 PM

Looks like we won't reach the end of the solar storm before my vacation starts.
(to remind: this Thursday until Thursday next week).

Will you be completely away from the PC or just greatly slowed? Anyway i think it will be OK, our turn rate has greatly exceeded my expectations at least. Its very pleasant.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 27, 2013, 03:14:42 AM

Completely away from my PC I'm afraid. I'll only have a tablet with me, and last I heard, Android doesn't run SMACX.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 27, 2013, 06:11:55 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 27, 2013, 06:36:06 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 27, 2013, 07:23:40 PM

There you go...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 27, 2013, 08:13:03 PM

Thanks for this last(?) turn before your holidays: I killed my first Bree IoD. With an infantry on it, it tastes even better.
RETRIBUTION COMES, SCUM!!!

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 27, 2013, 08:36:03 PM

 Keep it on, Chairman! :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 27, 2013, 09:25:41 PM

Got my first look at one of the Bree impact foils in person :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 28, 2013, 02:36:50 AM

Only now? Oh my... :-\

Last turn until Thursday evening next week, guys.
Have fun!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on November 28, 2013, 07:19:52 AM

Unfortunate that the bree are hitting unevenly, I did run some simulations (enough to confirm that with a well played defense each of you should be able to survive even harsh attacks, but that you'd each waste some resources defending) but was low on time.. I would normally like to run whole lot of simulations to check the AI hit roughly evenly. Glad you guys are taking it mostly well, and having co-op victory on may help (players who have a chance to outright win go for that, players who fell behind try to form an alliance and settle for hope of a shared victory, with the threat of backstabbing always there).

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on November 28, 2013, 08:50:42 PM

Quote from: ete on November 28, 2013, 07:19:52 AM

I did run some simulations (enough to confirm that with a well played defense each of you should be able to survive even harsh attacks, but that you'd each waste some resources defending)

For information The Hive has calculated its bilan: we lost 23 units but destroyed 18 Bree units since the beginning of this war.
We are your lightning rod on this planet, give credit where it's due! 8)

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on November 28, 2013, 09:23:05 PM

Congratulations, Chairman, you indeed fight well!  ;b; Our forces have also destroyed tens of units and I hope our respective battle weary commanders will be able to meet and shake hands at last. Hopefully, somewhere on carcasses of those vile Progenitors. Until that day, salute! :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on November 29, 2013, 09:46:07 AM

Thats sick guys...very nice holding the line against such forces.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on November 29, 2013, 09:48:24 AM

From the Atlantean point of view, it may prove unfortunate the Submariners have becoming proficient at repelling Bree attacks; already Bree naval probes are increasing and stronger!

Sent from an Atlantic lavarock coast. ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 05, 2013, 07:50:57 AM

I should be back in 10 hours, provided a northwester storm doesn't move further south then expected.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 05, 2013, 08:10:41 PM

Unity Control, we have re-ignited...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 05, 2013, 08:16:38 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 05, 2013, 07:50:57 AM

I should be back in 10 hours, provided a northwester storm doesn't move further south then expected.

How are things going down there? Even in Warsaw it's quite windy tonight, and I hear the coast was hit quite hard. Anyway, glad you made it!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 05, 2013, 08:28:26 PM

The plane kept on wiggling right up until touchdown once we were in the landing phase, but that was it.
Walked the last 2 clicks home from the train stop. Quite a bunch of twig branches on the pedestrian walkway (I need to walk next to a small forest to get home), but the wind at that point wasn't too strong. Even the predicted rain (sofar) hasn't come inland.
Our coast is another matter. Gusts to 90 km/hour were predicted, with tides between 6 and 7 meter.

If I want to, I could drive 5 clicks to the river and see how high it stands. It is tidal, even 100 km inland from the seaport.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 06, 2013, 05:41:19 PM

Let's go!
Another seaformer lost to the Bree. Hopefully the last.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 06, 2013, 06:10:12 PM

And I must I just love it when I lose three fights in a row despite positive odds. Which is why this turn was so great!  ::)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 06, 2013, 07:18:21 PM

Back on the road again.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 06, 2013, 07:51:47 PM

You made landfall as well? :o

To the Chairman.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 06, 2013, 08:30:49 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 06, 2013, 08:46:59 PM

onwards to the brave Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 07, 2013, 01:45:23 AM

@atlantians

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 07, 2013, 08:05:05 AM

For the unattentive, the CDF was started by the Bree 2 years ago.

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 07, 2013, 08:42:48 AM

Quote

For the unattentive, the CDF was started by the Bree 2 years ago.

Bah, the bases they stole me have already defense perimeters. :P

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 08, 2013, 08:47:55 AM

Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 08, 2013, 01:33:25 PM

The sunspots ended!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 08, 2013, 03:50:53 PM

To the good(?) Chairman.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 08, 2013, 06:48:10 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 08, 2013, 03:50:53 PM

To the good(?) Chairman.

As good as he can be for you: I killed 3 Bree attack vessels in 3 turns and I still can't see the end of it, they keep on sending the bulk of their forces against me.
So...you're safe...for the moment.

To the technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 08, 2013, 08:44:03 PM

At least they're not sending IoD's your way. :(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 08, 2013, 08:59:12 PM

on.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 09, 2013, 10:13:28 AM

We have begun the election process to determine a Planetary Governor so as to present a more unified front against the Bree menace. I can assure you all of Foreman Domai's benevolent nature and firm character as a strong candidate for this honor, and that he will use all the powers of this position strictly for the good of all mankind, naturally. Vote as your conscience directs you...  :)

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 09, 2013, 11:40:25 AM

Since you've initiated the Council, does that mean I may communicate with any unmet faction now? ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 09, 2013, 03:52:55 PM

The Vote goes on... :-\

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 09, 2013, 04:41:37 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 09, 2013, 11:40:25 AM

Since you've initiated the Council, does that mean I may communicate with any unmet faction now? ;cute

It seems so: unmet factions appear now as having truce with me.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 09, 2013, 06:06:03 PM

Kata, you knew this election is going to be important, I think you could have done it as was customary at 'poly, i.e. post the votes count here and allow people (i.e. me in this case) to conduct diplomacy. Otherwise the first one to convene gets a huge and imho unfair advantage. I can't say I'm a happy bunny now.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 09, 2013, 11:44:14 PM

What was the vote count when it arrived at your turn and why would it change anything to post votes in my post? I obviously voted for myself and the three remaining players votes were as yet unknown to me. Im sure we are all aware of our own population counts from the previous turn.
I wouldnt be happy about facing the Drones as a bunny either.  ;lol

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 10, 2013, 05:11:39 AM

The Royal Navy announces its first conquest of a Bree-founded settlement.
Escapees have been reported to attempt to flee the Kingdom's wrath...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 10, 2013, 12:04:17 PM

Destruction of the Bree impact fleet is under way.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 10, 2013, 12:37:21 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on December 09, 2013, 11:44:14 PM

What was the vote count when it arrived at your turn and why would it change anything to post votes in my post? I obviously voted for myself and the three remaining players votes were as yet unknown to me. Im sure we are all aware of our own population counts from the previous turn.
I wouldnt be happy about facing the Drones as a bunny either.  ;lol

@atlantis

I must say I didn't expect this kind of response. Obviously, it’s not about posting the vote count (that’s just good manners), it’s about giving the others ample time to conduct diplomacy and trade.

Regardless of what you think about this rule, please follow it in our “Rising Sun” game as agreed before you joined, see my message here:

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3412.255 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=3412.255)

And as to your being oblivious of other guys’ voting… I can't say I'm impressed, Kata.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 10, 2013, 01:51:55 PM

Im at work guys so ill play the turn tonight ASAP

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 10, 2013, 09:43:26 PM

How about we rollback to the turn i opened the elections in and we just agree to take the governership off the table, permanently? I am open to this route but we need unanimous agreement and it wastes some time.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 10, 2013, 10:07:56 PM

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoMfUxqoVn4GiCppUi_aqAnwrE4x8W1bn63IARF1_pZgOau133rQ)

1) No diplomacy woud change my vote meaning the result would stay the same whatever the Atlanteans do.
2) We've already got enough tampering of this game with overpowered aliens. It doesn't need to be neutered too by removing key features.
3) Everything went well for me the last 3 turns.

So...No!  ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 10, 2013, 10:19:09 PM

Okay, just putting that out there.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 11, 2013, 06:59:51 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 10, 2013, 10:07:56 PM

So...No!  ;yang;

But... But... But...
/me stops making boat noises and forwards the turn ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 11, 2013, 11:05:16 AM

I'm sorry, I didn't want to make the impression I want a reload, I just couldn't help but express a bit of distress. Those who follow the power chart can imagine the situation is tense down here. ;) The election is won fair and square and we play on, of course.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 11, 2013, 11:08:18 AM

/me checks the Royal Charts...

Nope, not all main players are "down there". ;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on December 11, 2013, 05:14:29 PM

Who won the election?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 11, 2013, 06:05:37 PM

Kata, with 3 factions voting for him over Kirov.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 11, 2013, 06:15:13 PM

Correction, I voted for Kata, too.

After all, why not? :P

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 11, 2013, 07:08:44 PM

Quote from: Kirov on December 11, 2013, 06:15:13 PM

Correction, I voted for Kata, too.

He really should be showering us with gifts and whatnot. :whistle:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 11, 2013, 11:16:13 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 12, 2013, 07:54:05 AM

to the Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 12, 2013, 10:00:44 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 12, 2013, 04:18:08 PM

To ;yang;.

You will see a reload warning. My computer rebooted while I was playing the turn due to a Windows update.
To my disadvantage I may add. I lost 2 foils on the second play. :'(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 12, 2013, 05:27:36 PM

Also a reload from me: I opened the turn, it had the right number 2185 but it was the situation at the end of 2184 with End Turn flashing... ???

Hey, Guys!
Some are talking about these bloody Bree IoDs but the only ones killed were by me thus far. You sleeping or what?  :-*

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 12, 2013, 05:35:39 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 12, 2013, 05:27:36 PM

Also a reload from me: I opened the turn, it had the right number 2185 but it was the situation at the end of 2184 with End Turn flashing... ???

Did I sent you the wrong turn or what?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 12, 2013, 05:50:28 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 12, 2013, 05:35:39 PM

Did I sent you the wrong turn or what?

No, must have been a glitch. I closed and reopened and it was good.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 12, 2013, 09:28:52 PM

Yep, everything's fine.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 12, 2013, 10:12:59 PM

Getting about  time to throw out your old powercharts and purchase some new ones :whistle:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 12, 2013, 10:33:58 PM

Vishniac, all yours.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 13, 2013, 06:27:57 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 13, 2013, 03:31:42 PM

to the Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 13, 2013, 06:06:43 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 13, 2013, 07:24:05 PM

The power of pop booming in action... ???

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 14, 2013, 10:01:58 AM

Quote from: Geo on December 13, 2013, 07:24:05 PM

The power of pop booming in action... ???

Something you and I can't.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 14, 2013, 02:49:43 PM

to the Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 14, 2013, 03:56:09 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 14, 2013, 09:08:37 PM

And to ;yang;.

(the datalinks were a study of awe this turn with several 'sectors' in the proces of being overrun)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 15, 2013, 11:46:02 AM

I won't see the end of the Bree hordes...

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2013, 09:48:07 PM

Bards will sing songs about your valor, dear Chairman!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 15, 2013, 11:13:40 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 16, 2013, 12:17:30 AM

Quote from: Kirov on December 15, 2013, 09:48:07 PM

Bards will sing songs about your valor, dear Chairman!

My sailors are paying the price with their blood not me. We just lost our flagship: the elite cruiser Magnificent had killed an IoD carrying an enemy impact infantry but another IoD came out of nowhere just after to take opportunity and sink it... :(

But I am happy to say that the tally has now been inversed: The Hive has lost a total of 30 units against the Bree (probes not included) but has destroyed 31 of them.
That doesn't change the fact that the game should be decided before I get rid of the 5 Bree bases in my vicinity...or not?  :D

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 16, 2013, 05:46:20 PM

Your foils seem to become more abundant near your former bases, Chairman.

And I'm saved by an awkward situation by my own negligence! ;lol

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 16, 2013, 06:30:24 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 16, 2013, 07:17:00 PM

 :-[

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 16, 2013, 10:31:49 PM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 17, 2013, 05:02:12 AM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 17, 2013, 04:04:19 PM

Played and forwarded.

You will see a reload warning due to me clicking on the Hercules perihelion message.
I lost an instant production pod pop that way. :mad:

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 17, 2013, 05:33:10 PM

Warning: the Bree have started The Ascetic Virtues.

The HELL with them!
3 IoDs appearing this turn. I killed 2, the third sank one of my boats.
I'll have 2 words with Ete at the end of this game... :mad:

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on December 17, 2013, 05:37:23 PM

sorry vishniac, i wish i'd had more time for testing..

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 17, 2013, 06:16:24 PM

Must've been helluva party, dear Foreman. ;) And no sign of ending.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 17, 2013, 11:14:28 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 18, 2013, 06:53:56 PM

I lost the battle.
The Royal Navy's first cruiser is no more. :'(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 19, 2013, 05:58:03 PM

One of our skimships sacrified itself to save a cruiser.

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 20, 2013, 11:08:14 AM

 ;domai;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 20, 2013, 02:52:47 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 20, 2013, 03:28:28 PM

There's either a problem with the save or I have been hacked (ingame I mean ;) ). It opens without the need of typing my password. All units which weren't on hold show as having moved, I see a drone colony pod on the same seaplot as two of my foils, and another shows up on land on top of a monolith near a Bree base. My faction color has switched to Morgans and my bases are all invisible, even in the F4 screen. Oh, and the Bree have switched to Usurper graphics (they showed as the Cyborgs before).
Finishing the turn gives an end of scenario message with the Bree in a draw. And additional info from another faction.

Please advise. ???

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 20, 2013, 04:35:02 PM

bizarre...i played the turn on my laptop as ive done several times before. Ill play again and resend

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 20, 2013, 04:56:14 PM

I've never heard about such a massive bug... Did anyone notice anything out of order just before? I hope we'll fix this...  :-\

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 20, 2013, 05:05:18 PM

The 'weirdest' thing to have happened the last two turns at my end is a tidal wave event.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 20, 2013, 05:09:57 PM

I sure hope i dont have to play such large turns for a third time with my touchpad  :'(
Unknown number of reloads, probably 3, as i loaded the turn atleast once after sending the first time

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 20, 2013, 05:47:24 PM

Thanks for your effort, Kataphraktoi. It paid off. ;)
Touchpad? You have a windows-run tablet?

Didn't notice a single glitch.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 20, 2013, 06:36:02 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 20, 2013, 07:54:58 PM

Seems we've got a winner. A superb popboom, Kata! ;b;  ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 20, 2013, 09:48:55 PM

Thank you :) Unfortunately our civil defense force became careless due to excessive festivities and allowed over half a dozen bases to suffer reduced production for a time...The minister in charge is now working on a mining platform at our most remotebase...

@Geo its just the mouse pad every laptop has, you use instead of a mouse. I hate em :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 21, 2013, 05:11:26 AM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on December 20, 2013, 09:48:55 PM

@Geo its just the mouse pad every laptop has, you use instead of a mouse. I hate em :)

Oh. :-[

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 21, 2013, 08:45:06 AM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 21, 2013, 05:28:03 PM

to the Seamen!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 21, 2013, 06:34:32 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 21, 2013, 07:03:59 PM

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 22, 2013, 05:04:53 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 22, 2013, 05:58:25 PM

to the Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 22, 2013, 06:40:54 PM

The Cyborg Factory is poised for completion. And yes, i remember we banned crawler upgrades, just to put that out there.

BTW this is the first turn ive played using VMware to run a virtual winXP on my PC....the sledgehammer solution to my stability problems.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 22, 2013, 07:06:57 PM

You already got 'choppers? ???

To ;yang;.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 22, 2013, 07:48:11 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 22, 2013, 07:06:57 PM

You already got 'choppers? ???

Not much to do with choppers with base-move 4.

The Hive has finally retaken a first base from the Bree.
The beast still bites hard but DEATH IS COMING!!!!  ;lol

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 22, 2013, 08:37:44 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 22, 2013, 07:48:11 PM

Not much to do with choppers with base-move 4.

A few needles to scout the outer reaches, and choppers for closer-at-home multiple attacks if a Bree unit gets through.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 22, 2013, 08:54:26 PM

Watching as the Drones quickly rise for the planetary dominance, Founder Federov made a decision not to go down without a fight. A Drone unit was spotted and engaged.

Foreman Domai, we are at war.

On an urelated note, in the next year the Technocrats will adopt Ascetic Virtues.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 22, 2013, 09:34:49 PM

Behold the behavior of the alternative candidate for Governor, attacking the first hapless drone unit his faction encounters  :D
Of course we plan to defend ourselves appropriately against this unprovoked aggression;vendetta indeed.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 22, 2013, 09:48:26 PM

Oh bloody hell! :o
This needs thinking about, so no turn for the next 20 hours.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 22, 2013, 10:07:51 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 22, 2013, 09:48:26 PM

...no turn for the next 20 hours.

Ok! Then for me no turn for the next 24 hours.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 23, 2013, 03:43:23 PM

All yours, Chairman.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 24, 2013, 01:22:54 PM

Destruction of the Bree combat and transport cruisers underway!

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 24, 2013, 04:49:04 PM

to the Seamen!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 24, 2013, 05:30:55 PM

Argh you posted just as i have to leave...or rather i only looked now...

Merry Christmas guys! :) Dunno how you do it, but we travel to our relatives every year for a get together on the 'Eve. Quite wintery conditions for driving here in michigan so hopefully i make it back  ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 24, 2013, 11:37:48 PM

Merry Christmas as well.

Traveling towards the family meeting this year consists of a 40 km drive through persistent rain.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 24, 2013, 11:46:30 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 25, 2013, 11:06:28 AM

Christmas turn.
Not a single hostile action occured this turn. :P

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 25, 2013, 01:56:30 PM

Merry Christmas to all!
Congratulations to the Technos for surpassing the Bree!

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 25, 2013, 03:23:58 PM

Merry Christmas as well and thank you, Chairman. I believe it is time to eradicate the Progenitor menace once and for all.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 25, 2013, 06:12:53 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 25, 2013, 07:34:08 PM

To the Submariners!

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 25, 2013, 08:55:08 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 26, 2013, 12:57:48 PM

Seamen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 26, 2013, 04:05:24 PM

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 26, 2013, 04:51:18 PM

;yang;? Your turn...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 26, 2013, 05:57:18 PM

You know guys, with our speed-smac group and 3 more players of similar speed\dedication, we could play a 7 person game, the real SMAC.

...

OK i go back to reality now and stop dreaming...  ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 26, 2013, 06:34:49 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on December 26, 2013, 05:57:18 PM

OK i go back to reality now and stop dreaming...  ;)

2013 will be a calm year qua away-time, but 2014 is another kettle... ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 26, 2013, 10:49:54 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 27, 2013, 12:22:45 AM

Guys, either I'm really tired or we have some sort of Y2K issue - my turn (and the one for Kata) reads 2199, exactly like the previous one. Any ideas?  ???

Vishniac, could you open your previous turn and end it again and see what year is?

Still, I'm sending the 2200 turn (which reads 2199) to Kata.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 27, 2013, 01:33:39 AM

Time has advanced in the game, even if the year didnt change. Ill play it out and send it along.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 27, 2013, 02:17:10 AM

I renamed the 2199 file it created to 2200.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 27, 2013, 10:53:23 AM

Quote from: Kirov on December 27, 2013, 12:22:45 AM

Vishniac, could you open your previous turn and end it again and see what year is?

Must be a bug: your turn reads 2199 again.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 27, 2013, 02:58:09 PM

Sent.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 27, 2013, 05:24:42 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 27, 2013, 06:38:28 PM

Guys, the internal clock is still at 2199. Normally I'd say it's just a nuisance, but if it affects the time of the next Council, then we're going to have a huge problem.


And Kata, could you make a mental note what happened the last turn that you had such a decline on the powergraph? There is something in the Might formula that is off to me and I will want to submit this issue somewhere and discuss it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 27, 2013, 06:56:52 PM

The bree also suffered a large decline in the powergraph earlier, that thing isnt very accurate. Infact i believe the graph is a relative description of power, not absolute power. For example(make-believe numbers) the drones could have been rated at 3\4 power, then the game decided it needed to measure as 11\16ths power and the way it picked new numbers for its graph height didnt match up with the old graphics...just a theory here though, could be nonsense.

Playing until when the Governership takes place only to get stuck is going to be a huge waste of time...not sure what else to do though

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 27, 2013, 07:07:03 PM

The next election should be available in two turns, in what would be 2103. I know at least one player who's got a lot at stake in it...

I've played literally thousands of SMAC games and can't recall any similar problem, single or multi. Let's just hope the election will be as usual (everything else progresses fine) and we will just have to live with this annoying feature.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 27, 2013, 07:34:34 PM

This game has so many features already its hard to list all of them.

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 27, 2013, 09:36:13 PM

Still no progress on the year. :-\

I wonder if that is because of something in the scenario setup.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM

The patch has some issues.
I can't start a new game with it, the window where you choose the factions doesn't show correctly. I am forced to change files in my folder...

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 28, 2013, 01:23:03 PM

I won't play for the next 36 hours. Have a quiet week-end!
 ;yang;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 28, 2013, 02:46:50 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM

The patch has some issues.
I can't start a new game with it, the window where you choose the factions doesn't show correctly. I am forced to change files in my folder...

Wasn't that because the scenario was created in Yitzi's patch, and transfered to Scient's?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 28, 2013, 03:29:19 PM

Still 2199 in game...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 28, 2013, 03:32:31 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 28, 2013, 01:23:03 PM

I won't play for the next 36 hours. Have a quiet week-end!
 ;yang;

I'm afraid I'll be gone for a full week. Sorry for the short notice, but yesterday I got invited to the UK and spontaneously decided to go. I will try to download and play my turns, but of course my play rate will suffer. Be back next Sunday.

Vishniac, if you could push the turn to me by Monday early morning (you're in Europe, right?), that would be great - we can start the election and see what happens.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 28, 2013, 03:34:40 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 28, 2013, 10:33:09 AM

I can't start a new game with it, the window where you choose the factions doesn't show correctly. I am forced to change files in my folder...
To the Technos

I'm quite sure (not 100%, though) that it has nothing to do with the patch. There are some errors in our alphax.txt file from ete, in the lines below Custom factions - you can see there's a mess down there. Nevertheless, why we are stuck in a time loop is beyond me.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 28, 2013, 03:58:39 PM

Congrats to the technos, your powergraph rise is making what the drones did earlier seem feeble and ineffective  ;)

We may need to start thinking about what happens if we cant call the elections at all...and consider how many turns it would take for any faction to grind its way to victory on this map. But lets wait and see what happens

@atlantis

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 28, 2013, 05:35:24 PM

All right, that's out of the house. :o

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 29, 2013, 02:46:08 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on December 28, 2013, 03:58:39 PM

Congrats to the technos, your powergraph rise is making what the drones did earlier seem feeble and ineffective  ;)

Why, thank you, but don't be too modest yourself! ;) It was indeed worthwile to delay the popboom a bit (I was worried I was starting it too late).

As for the rest, we'll know more next turn. I sure hope it's fine, I don't remember the last time I played with such a committed gang as you, guys. :)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 29, 2013, 11:01:25 PM

To the Technos

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on December 30, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Guys, I'm afraid the problem is still there and it's the election time. Can I ask one of you to submit my turn to Yitzi and ask for help? A friend of mine told me that maybe the problem can be fixed with a debugging tool.

This would greatly affect my in-game decisions (i.e. whether to defend or raze the EG base), so I don't submit my turn this time until we discuss it. I'm afraid I don't see any good solution if tinkering with the files doesn't help... :(

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on December 30, 2013, 03:43:46 PM

If we cant fix the issue, im in favour of calling the game an all-around draw. Having the governership or not will have a big impact in th near future. Imagine the repercussions if the drones managed to take Flos back using this infiltration to help in warfare;then this bug will have showed itself in a massive way. Even if not, the impact on warfare in general is too big even if not apparent in the f5 screen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on December 30, 2013, 05:54:16 PM

Quote from: Kirov on December 30, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Can I ask one of you to submit my turn to Yitzi and ask for help?

You didn't post this year's turn yet?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on December 30, 2013, 06:05:52 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 30, 2013, 05:54:16 PM

Quote from: Kirov on December 30, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Can I ask one of you to submit my turn to Yitzi and ask for help?

You didn't post this year's turn yet?

He probably meant the one I sent since he wants to be able to call elections.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 02, 2014, 09:59:19 PM

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2853.msg41313#msg41313 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2853.msg41313#msg41313)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 02, 2014, 10:11:28 PM

Quote from: Vishniac on December 30, 2013, 06:05:52 PM

Quote from: Geo on December 30, 2013, 05:54:16 PM

Quote from: Kirov on December 30, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Can I ask one of you to submit my turn to Yitzi and ask for help?

You didn't post this year's turn yet?

He probably meant the one I sent since he wants to be able to call elections.

I think Yitzi needs your save, Vishniac. Or else Kirov's.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 03, 2014, 12:01:47 AM

My save has been posted and already been downloaded 5 times.  :D

I have just sent him my password by PM.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 03, 2014, 01:58:47 AM

Vishniac's is the most important for me to have, but it would also help a lot if I had Kirov's too.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 03, 2014, 02:43:28 AM

Ok, I've done some looking into it and found that:
1. The problem does occur in Kyrub's...so it's not something I did.  I don't know why it hasn't occurred in other games, though I suspect that the first player being an AI in a multiplayer game may have something to do with it.  (I also have no clue why it hasn't happened before 2199.)
2. While I haven't found how to fix it, I think I am able to update the game date.  (That is, I can update it, and it affects council and the date shown; I don't think there are any ramifications that it does not affect, but I can't be absolutely certain of that.)  The updated-date version of the latest-posted turn is attached, so you can continue your game while I try to figure out what's going on.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 03, 2014, 11:31:52 AM

Wow. Thank you so much, Yitzi! :o ;b;

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 04, 2014, 03:18:20 PM

Yitzi, thank you indeed. I didn't find enough time to download the game and do the turn at my pace, besides I expected it to be cancelled. I'm going home tomorrow so I will give it a longer look. It would be great to be able to call the election! I lost all hope.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 05, 2014, 04:51:43 PM

Well, it seems to be related to the use of needlejets...I still have to figure out why needlejets usually don't cause this problem...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 06, 2014, 02:47:30 PM

Yitzi, can you open this last turn you forwarded to me? I'm afraid the problem persists - the year is still 2199 and I can't call the election, which should be this year... Can we double-check this?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 03:35:28 PM

I see the problem: I accidentally posted the unmodified file.  This one should work.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 06, 2014, 03:44:25 PM

That's Vishniac's file, the submariners.
I assume Vishniac needs to replay it then?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 03:58:16 PM

Whoops, posted the wrong file again.  (That was actually from a few turns before the bug, which I downloaded to help with my bughunting.)  This is the right one.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 06, 2014, 04:37:03 PM

Yitzi, what does it say when you open my turn? It's still 2199 and no election for me. I tried it with 3 SMAC copies and it's all the same. I asked a friend of mine to open this save on his computer, we'll see what he says.

Whatever happens, you guys will get a bajillion of reload warnings, as I tried it numerous times to make sure - don't worry, no movement, combat or other chance actions have been taken, it was just to check the date and the council.

Can I also ask some outside person like BU or tras to see my turn for himself? Maybe something's wrong with all the 3 copies of mine, but it seems dubious for me.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 04:48:42 PM

So it does, apparently what I thought changed the year didn't.  I'll look into it more...

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 05:16:26 PM

I'm not sure, but what I think is happening is that multiplayer savefiles are encrypted to prevent exactly the sort of fiddling that I did.  So in order to fix it, I'll need to actually load the game, change it there, and then save it.  So, Kirov, if you can provide either a savegame after you're done managing all the beginning-of-turn stuff, or PM instructions on how I should do so, I should be able to fix it that way.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 06, 2014, 05:24:33 PM

This is my turn right after I select the research, before any movement. Is there anything else I should do before you tamper with it?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 06:11:22 PM

That should be fine.  The fixed-up version is attached.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 06, 2014, 07:45:21 PM

Nope, I can't say it works for me. I'm waiting for my friend to confirm this, but it seems nothing changed.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 08:33:03 PM

It works for me...are you sure you loaded the right file?  (I used the same name as yours, 2203sav.SAV, so it would have to overwrite your current one, and make sure you don't load 2203.SAV instead by mistake.)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 06, 2014, 11:38:29 PM

I've been doing some examination/testing, and as best as I can tell, any turn in which anyone has a needlejet in the air (not crashing, not in-base) that had movement left at the end of its turn (which requires that it did not attack or destroy enhancements during its turn), the turn will fail to progress; furthermore (as closely related bugs), if there is more than one such needlejet (doesn't matter if it's the same owner or not), all but one of them will have their fuel fully restored, and if there is at least one such needlejet it may also cause some air units that should have crashed to not crash.

This is clearly a bug, and one where I have no clue what the programmer thought he was doing.  The question is whether the fix can be included in patch version 2.5 (which might be a while, as it'll be a big one), or I should put out 2.4d to fix it now.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 07:40:39 AM

Uh oh, busted  ;) I have to admit to cheesing a bit using the old infinite air movement bug to shuttle needles around easier..i thought for sure this bug would have been fixed and stumbled on it by accident again when sending out first needle patrols to look for bree units. Didnt expect to be causing a turn freeze issue :whistle:

I think we can clear this issue up then, without further editing if i play a turn and put the needles back in realistic positions. As yitzi said the trick works by putting multiple needlejets on wait command with sufficient movement points and ending the turn while they are midair;they dont crash but regain all movement points on the next turn. (Not tactical needlejets though, they dont crash but dont refill movement either)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 07, 2014, 11:26:37 AM

Does that mean you relied on the "go to nearest base" feature regarding air units?
If so, you're lucky I didn't switch it off...;cute

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 07, 2014, 03:38:51 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 07:40:39 AM

Uh oh, busted  ;) I have to admit to cheesing a bit using the old infinite air movement bug to shuttle needles around easier..i thought for sure this bug would have been fixed and stumbled on it by accident again when sending out first needle patrols to look for bree units. Didnt expect to be causing a turn freeze issue :whistle:

In fact (if the bug you're talking about is the one I mentioned), they're essentially the same bug: Once it deals with air unit's movement, it automatically skips all the other end-of-turn stuff, including all the other air units' movement and turn progression (as well as a lot of other stuff I didn't even bother to get a full listing of.)

Since apparently it's known what's causing it and it's easy to avoid, I will just put the bug fix in version 2.5.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 04:08:56 PM

Quote from: Geo on January 07, 2014, 11:26:37 AM

Does that mean you relied on the "go to nearest base" feature regarding air units?
If so, you're lucky I didn't switch it off...;cute

Nah, the idea is to avoid resolving the air units movement at all. You leave your needlejets on wait position and click end of turn while they still have the ability to move atleast once and on your next turn, the movement points are fully restored. Think it only works in PBEM(havnt really gone into singleplayer since this game started, so i dont know for sure)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 07, 2014, 06:53:47 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 04:08:56 PM

Quote from: Geo on January 07, 2014, 11:26:37 AM

Does that mean you relied on the "go to nearest base" feature regarding air units?
If so, you're lucky I didn't switch it off...;cute

Nah, the idea is to avoid resolving the air units movement at all. You leave your needlejets on wait position and click end of turn while they still have the ability to move atleast once and on your next turn, the movement points are fully restored. Think it only works in PBEM(havnt really gone into singleplayer since this game started, so i dont know for sure)

It works in singleplayer too (I tested); however, each turn, one unlucky needlejet (I think it'll always be the one that was last to be built) will not have its movement points restored.  Also, whenever you use that exploit (even if there's only one needlejet so there are no actual movement points being restored), it stops the clock: The turn will not advance, sea levels will not rise or fall, the Cult and aliens won't arrive (if somehow you got needlejets before turn 6), and so on; basically, if it isn't specific to one player's turn, I think that using that exploit will make it not happen.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 08:08:31 PM

Quote

however, each turn, one unlucky needlejet (I think it'll always be the one that was last to be built) will not have its movement points restored. 

I havnt experienced this;i just double checked the last few turns and all needles are accounted for and none crashed.

So...what savegame should we continue on from?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 07, 2014, 08:16:04 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on January 07, 2014, 08:08:31 PM

I havnt experienced this;i just double checked the last few turns and all needles are accounted for and none crashed.

It wouldn't crash, just have its fuel not-restored.  And it might even be someone else's needlejet, if they're also not finishing its movement.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 07, 2014, 10:38:11 PM

And so?
This game is broken or it can be saved?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 08, 2014, 12:59:00 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on January 07, 2014, 10:38:11 PM

And so?
This game is broken or it can be saved?

If you use the save I provided, and Kataphraktoi stops cheesing with that exploit, you should have no problems.  Well, except for the advantage he gained via said exploit; what, if anything, has to be done about that is up to you.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 08, 2014, 10:43:31 PM

And...whose turn is it to play?
And where are everybody?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 09, 2014, 02:58:28 AM

I think it's Kirov's turn, unless you decide to rewind to before the exploit was used.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 09, 2014, 11:25:37 AM

Quote from: Vishniac on January 08, 2014, 10:43:31 PM

And where are everybody?

*pops up right behind a paranoid chairman*
Right here!



 ;)


Not enough (war) info on my parttl make a call.
I have no idea whether  Kirov had more combat or losses due to Kata using the exploit or not.


Perhaps we should convene a special session of the Planetary Council?
Oh wait... :doh

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 09, 2014, 02:53:38 PM

I don't know guys, I kinda lost my heart to play this game anymore... Not only it's unbalanced, there are strange issues with it, and now Kata's exploits. I'm not sure if it's actually that easy to replay the last four turns so that me and Kata 'pretend' not to know what the other guy does next. On the top of that, I was very lucky with the battle for EG, as I had 5 battles with only 6:5 odds and won all of them.

I think I would vote to call it a tie and maybe consider another game, this time without using even the unlisted exploits.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 09, 2014, 02:57:17 PM

I feel, as the most affected party, you got the most say in it.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: ete on January 09, 2014, 08:40:42 PM

Still no AC comp for me, so I won't be able to mapmake for the next one until at least july. Would be sad for the game to be abandoned, and it seems yitzi has tracked down the problem/it should be fixable, but understandable if you guys have had enough.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 10, 2014, 11:41:15 PM

So the game's dead...
Too bad, I had just begun to crush the Bree at last!

Another one?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 11, 2014, 12:13:11 AM

I see you guys want to continue. All right, let's do this then! However, we need to decide what we do with the past four turns. I have quite a bunch of bases and units and it's not going to be easy to precisely retrace my movements and actions. Plus, I'd like to get the same result for the EG attack, i.e. no losses for my air units. I hope you're okay with that. So what do we do? It seems Kata needs to redo the first turn he used that exploit.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 11, 2014, 12:32:08 AM

If we choose to play on, I'd rather not redo the last 4 turns.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 11, 2014, 12:36:14 AM

IMHO, this game feels stained now.

So the council counter wouldn't start running again if the air unit exploit wasn't used from this turn forward?

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 11, 2014, 12:52:07 AM

Quote from: Geo on January 11, 2014, 12:36:14 AM

IMHO, this game feels stained now.

So the council counter wouldn't start running again if the air unit exploit wasn't used from this turn forward?

I feel it's stained, too, but if you want to continue, guys, no problem. Yes, I *believe* that the counter would start again if everything was played as normal, however (this is @ Vishniac) I simply can't agree to play on as if nothing happened. Sorry, I'm not being fussy here, but considering the tactical situation around my EG base, the 4-turn council delay matters a great deal for me in-game.

So maybe it's better to start all over after all, with more balanced starting points and the AI.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 11, 2014, 01:04:35 AM

Quote from: Kirov on January 11, 2014, 12:52:07 AM

Quote from: Geo on January 11, 2014, 12:36:14 AM

IMHO, this game feels stained now.

So the council counter wouldn't start running again if the air unit exploit wasn't used from this turn forward?

I feel it's stained, too, but if you want to continue, guys, no problem. Yes, I *believe* that the counter would start again if everything was played as normal, however (this is @ Vishniac) I simply can't agree to play on as if nothing happened. Sorry, I'm not being fussy here, but considering the tactical situation around my EG base, the 4-turn council delay matters a great deal for me in-game.

So maybe it's better to start all over after all, with more balanced starting points and the AI.

The council, at least, should not be a concern; the latest savegame I provided does update the date properly, at least for council and display purposes.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 11, 2014, 01:12:25 AM

Quote from: Kirov on January 11, 2014, 12:52:07 AM

So maybe it's better to start all over after all, with more balanced starting points and the AI.

Ok!

Perhaps with 2 or 3 AIs instead of just one.
The Bree had clearly too many advantages:
- It was already good for them to be technically ahead and to have 17 bases.
- getting 2 minerals from fungus square was more than any human could get since we were sea-based and almost unable to plant and harvest forests.
- the 3-res armor was clearly over-the-top! It made their units undestroyable till we have impactors and their bases untakable unless we have missile weapon.
- and the last straw for The Hive was:

Quote from: ete on October 17, 2013, 05:00:48 PM

Everyone has a pretty nice start position, and everyone has semi-obvious tricks they can pull to improve their start positions dramatically (land bases for channels across single square land, specific terraforming, grabbing the nexus, etc).

I thought I had some time to grow behind the long land strip but the biggest error was to put a land Bree base somewhere near me (I spotted its red line the first turn). Thus I have never been able to put a base as channel but the Bree did fast and they funneled through it all the units they wanted to blocus and attack my bases, ot to talk about denying me the terraformed lands around my cities (yes, I was the one building a land former at the beginning.  ;) ). THAT is what made it difficult for me.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on January 11, 2014, 01:56:44 AM

I would like to opt out of future games, been struggling with some medical issues last few weeks (ear infections) and just have no real interest to keep me motivated beyond the fact i said i would play it out by signing up. Therefore ill be playing onwards in the rising sun game, hopefully until a replacement comes forward for the univ, which may not happen but oh well. Im a bit relieved its over to be honest :( enjoyable at times but also quite stressful.

To talk about the game a bit, around turn 12 i think a bree 3res boat showed up and killed a transportship+AA behind my HQ base then also a sea former or two. Now i can see geo made a better and more determined push for WP but at the time i was so frsutrated to miss my chance at that SP and honestly was almost resigning the game a few times but made myself keep playing. My moral was completely broken by this setback although later on i guess the bree started hitting everyone else much harder and compensated. Made so many mistakes, many times miscounting EC rush costs etc, but i feel my economic plan materialized decently. Using transports to put crawlers on forests and only using sea bases turned out well but somehow it feels like in last 20 turns i didnt do enough to maintain momentum. I just need a ton more bases, and about flos...well i could have afforded to put sea bases in position so i could attack when i gained air power, but i just didnt plan it out.

My game password was liberty, for the curious

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Vishniac on January 11, 2014, 11:54:45 AM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on January 11, 2014, 01:56:44 AM

My game password was liberty, for the curious

I just went to see who was where since I was never able to see beyond my borders.

And talking about the Bree, here is my final score:
Hive units destroyed: 38
Bree units destroyed: 57

Now waiting until someone propose a new game.  8)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 11, 2014, 04:50:38 PM

Okay, this game is quits then.

It looks like I had it easiest regarding the Bree, but then again, perhaps I was just smart how I managed exploring at the beginning. ;cute
At least, Vishniac's story leaves me inclined to think so.

I don't think I was ever really a contender in this game. The -2 Growth did indeed cripple expansion alot. Finishing the Weather Paradigm might've been my best luck in this game, but that's linked with a couple hundreds energy obtained from 'pods. I could never hope going up against the Drone's industrialism, or the Technocrat's science. Always had to rely on diplomacy to keep my faction in the running.
Military wise, all my successes were always preceded by an overwhelming defeat of my first task force towards the objective. If that hadn't happened, I'd have had a better outer defensive rim by the time the 'big boys' boomed into action.

If someone wants to take a look at my saves, my password for this game was "DevilMayCare".

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 24, 2014, 06:36:07 PM

Sorry for writing late, but I had a few thoughts I wanted to put out here.

-   the map:

Usually I’m not fond of huge maps, if only for the reason that the game is decided before you can put any hurt on other players, but this one I kinda liked, if only for some interesting paths of contact we with Kata could reach each other through and try to control. One was more obvious, through the EG (Flos), the other one – SW for Kata, NE for me, with some interesting spots (AI base Robur) and terrain on the way.

However, the usual problem with huge maps occurred – when Kata run away with his second popboom, I desperately tried to forge a coalition and even had some success with it – but it didn’t really matter as it would take ages to reach even his frontier bases. This issue greatly limits the potential of diplomacy on huge maps and reduces it to tech and vote trade.

Another thing is, on this ocean map there was still much too much land to truly call it waterworld. I was very quick to storm the land and I was extremely surprised to discover, when I got the EG, that nobody else built even a single land base. For me, land is priority and I wouldn’t throw away even smallest isles. The cost of a sea colony pod does it all, plus you don’t need support-consuming transports to add formers and crawlers.

-   the balance:

Several problems here. The first and foremost was the Hive’s placement. I believe Vishniac had a much worse place than the rest of us, way too close to the AI, with a lot of heat down there. More about the AI below.

Geo’s factions, Atlantis, sucks big time. Free submarines at the end of the game and cheaper terraforming down is laughable compared to -2 Growth. Bonuses to probe and police…, nah, it’s not even close. Even the Cult of Planet might be stronger than this.

-   the AI:

The main problem with the AI is that it’s completely  unpredictable, at least to me, in its stupidity. With strong CPU, you never know who gets hit harder, and among equal players, the loss of a single sea former early on may spell disaster. Much effort should be made to make sure the situation is balanced, and in general, the AI probably shouldn’t be a threat in the first 20-30 turns.

Another problem with a strong AI is that it’s ripe for probe raping. This was or could be a great help to tech-impaired factions like the Drones and the Hive – you use your Industry bonus to build cheap probes and boom – suddenly all your tech problems are solved. The problem with early Drones is not that they don’t have techs, because those can be traded, but that the Drones initially have nothing to trade for. AI raping solves this issue. I stole a lot of techs from Bree myself, but I was the least dependent on this technique. And when I stole EcoEng (which I was already on the way to) and noticed that Domai already has it, I knew the situation wasn’t quite balanced. The Drones would never on their own grab EcoEng in the 2150s or 60s.

One potential solution is to put “interlocks” in each AI base, but I’m afraid this doesn’t do much. When I discovered a land AI base nearby, it took me a long time to establish a frontier and slowly make a road there, but it was worth it – I probed Herba with numerous infantry probes for 4-5 techs and their map (another stuff which is just too good from a strong AI). Even when every second one probe was dead, it was still worth it.

And HQ is every base… something is definitely bugged here. Sometimes you can conquer the AI’s HQ and end up with two capital cities (I wonder which one is moved when you relocate the HQ?), but sometimes an HQ appears in one of your native bases when you conquer a completely different AI base. Weird. All I know is that I finished the game with 3 HQs and the last one appeared in a base I founded.


-   Technocrats

I kind of like this faction, but have some remarks. It gives you nodes in every base and +1 Effic, so I knew from the start that I want to ICS and grab PTS and PEG, especially when we discovered the lower difficulty level. What surprises me in this faction is that it has half the Effic penalty (impunity or whatsitsname), good for running PS or Planned, but this offers no synergy with the most preferred (and my favourite) SE setting for energy-oriented builders – Demo/FM/Wealth. Hab limit down to 5 is definitely a bummer and the thing which makes this faction much worse than the overpowered Zak.





On a side note, I like the idea of killing the chopper movement. They’re worthless on the offense now but very useful for defending with SAM ability. I want to test it more in other MP games and I think it’s good we tweaked the rules a bit.

Long story short, the game was great and exciting and I enjoyed it a lot. At first I was worried I was gonna get bored with tedious ICS, but when Kata pop-boomed, this certainly added a lot of pressure for mer. Pity we had to end it, I still had a trick or two up my sleeve for later on. Ah, we get it next time.

Last but not least – thank you all guys very much for commitment to turn pushing and nice diplomacy, it worked out great and the game was faster than many 1v1s. I certainly want to play with you more, so we can think about another game or just hit me up if you set up something!  ;b;

Thanks ete for CMNing and take care you all. :)

(sorry for not giving my password, but I’m lazy and use a variation of one word to most of my games; I can describe anything you want and I'm posting a screenshot of my area for Vishniac)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Geo on January 24, 2014, 10:02:38 PM

Ah, that visiting foil did indeed "accidently" spot 2 of my bases. :P

I was happy with (most of) the diplomacy in this game. And part of the reason I used an "unwinnable" faction was to look less of a threat and see if I could get diplomacy going.

But I really did underestimate the power of popbooming. If my Tau Ceti project ever gets semi-finished, I'll have to make sure it is not possible reaching +50% growth in the early game.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 26, 2014, 04:34:23 AM

Quote from: Kirov on January 24, 2014, 06:36:07 PM

On a side note, I like the idea of killing the chopper movement.

You might want to give some thought to restoring their movement to 8, but removing the bonus from reactor.  This would make fission choppers stronger than your plan (but then, 6 movement total is a bit weak), and quantum/singularity choppers weaker.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kataphraktoi on January 26, 2014, 02:04:31 PM

Quote

Another problem with a strong AI is that it’s ripe for probe raping. This was or could be a great help to tech-impaired factions like the Drones and the Hive – you use your Industry bonus to build cheap probes and boom – suddenly all your tech problems are solved. The problem with early Drones is not that they don’t have techs, because those can be traded, but that the Drones initially have nothing to trade for. AI raping solves this issue. I stole a lot of techs from Bree myself, but I was the least dependent on this technique. And when I stole EcoEng (which I was already on the way to) and noticed that Domai already has it, I knew the situation wasn’t quite balanced. The Drones would never on their own grab EcoEng in the 2150s or 60s.

It seems you didnt read my PMs so carefully and i have to contradict you once again;the Drones did not obtain Eco Eng from the AI via probes, and infact not only was i the last player to use probes against the AI and gain infiltration, i would maintain we gained quite a bit less from probing than from certain other factions. Yes we traded a few techs back and fourth with Atlantis, but we even got hit with the communications blackout and didnt recieve Eco Eng as promised in a trade, and finished the tech ourselves. This trading is due to us dispatching our first naval units in all directions to find players, and skipping local scouting efforts until later. If it sounds like im getting bent out of shape on this topic, its because we worked hard to have a decent econ and tech up;i dont and never have relied on probe teams.  ;)

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Kirov on January 26, 2014, 06:13:53 PM

I remember your PM on this issue, but didn’t bring it up for several reasons. One, it was somewhere at that point when I spotted your probe team (a rover one, on a transport foil) right next to some Bree base (in your area, SW). Second, I checked and in 2150 you had neither SocPsych nor Biogenetics, so I figured at least parts of your tech were not done independently.

But this is less important than what I really had in mind. To be blunt, I simply can’t agree that not using probe teams is something to be proud of in this game. I’m sorry Kata, but in my opinion this was simply a mistake, and a huge one. If I were Domai, I’d be very heavy on probes. Probing is not something I resort to when I fail to put up decent infrastructure; it’s always an important part of my strategy, as vital as preparing a separate base for FM military operations. Sure, there are drawbacks, some probe teams simply died fruitlessly and others brought me garbage like Field Modulation, but at the end of the day, I profited a lot in this game from probes and I see no reason why everyone else couldn’t do that.

Case in point – Planetary Economics, which was researched by Bree. I was watching this intensely and aimed to steal it and build AV right on the same turn Bree gets the tech, but unfortunately I was late 1-2 turns (Bree bombed my formers building a road to Herba). This happened shortly after you built CF. Now, if you had your probes ready and snatched AV, I would never say we were close to a tie. AV was vital to my strategy, one for longer popboom, two – it allowed me to run PS/FM and keep fighting a regular war, without separate FM bases. This would be a great leverage against your Industry bonus in the upcoming conflict and I’d have been most unhappy to see you with both CF and AV.

Another trick I like to have at my disposal is getting at least one probe to Elite and leave it for later. If necessary, I can probe a human player and frame another one, thus driving a huge wedge between them (good luck trying to convince somebody that you’ve been framed). Now, usually it’s too dangerous to just carelessly do that (I think the chance is 50%, i.e. the probe must survive in order to successfully frame), but sometimes you want to take this risk. I can’t confirm or deny if one was already heading another player, just in case. :)

So to rephrase what I said earlier – factions like Domai and Hive should try to probe a strong AI as much as humanly possible and when they do, this annuls at least huge chunks of their energy impairment.

Title: Re: Waterworld!
Post by: Yitzi on January 26, 2014, 08:06:33 PM

Quote from: Kirov on January 26, 2014, 06:13:53 PM

I remember your PM on this issue, but didn’t bring it up for several reasons. One, it was somewhere at that point when I spotted your probe team (a rover one, on a transport foil) right next to some Bree base (in your area, SW). Second, I checked and in 2150 you had neither SocPsych nor Biogenetics, so I figured at least parts of your tech were not done independently.

But this is less important than what I really had in mind. To be blunt, I simply can’t agree that not using probe teams is something to be proud of in this game. I’m sorry Kata, but in my opinion this was simply a mistake, and a huge one. If I were Domai, I’d be very heavy on probes. Probing is not something I resort to when I fail to put up decent infrastructure; it’s always an important part of my strategy, as vital as preparing a separate base for FM military operations. Sure, there are drawbacks, some probe teams simply died fruitlessly and others brought me garbage like Field Modulation, but at the end of the day, I profited a lot in this game from probes and I see no reason why everyone else couldn’t do that.

Case in point – Planetary Economics, which was researched by Bree. I was watching this intensely and aimed to steal it and build AV right on the same turn Bree gets the tech, but unfortunately I was late 1-2 turns (Bree bombed my formers building a road to Herba). This happened shortly after you built CF. Now, if you had your probes ready and snatched AV, I would never say we were close to a tie. AV was vital to my strategy, one for longer popboom, two – it allowed me to run PS/FM and keep fighting a regular war, without separate FM bases. This would be a great leverage against your Industry bonus in the upcoming conflict and I’d have been most unhappy to see you with both CF and AV.

Another trick I like to have at my disposal is getting at least one probe to Elite and leave it for later. If necessary, I can probe a human player and frame another one, thus driving a huge wedge between them (good luck trying to convince somebody that you’ve been framed). Now, usually it’s too dangerous to just carelessly do that (I think the chance is 50%, i.e. the probe must survive in order to successfully frame), but sometimes you want to take this risk. I can’t confirm or deny if one was already heading another player, just in case. :)

So to rephrase what I said earlier – factions like Domai and Hive should try to probe a strong AI as much as humanly possible and when they do, this annuls at least huge chunks of their energy impairment.

I think that from a player perspective, trying to win the game, that makes sense, but such tactics (including the "single base for FM military" one) do contribute to imbalance in the game, and so while doing them makes sense, banning or disabling them for everybody (whichever works better) probably makes sense as well.