Forumulating Guidelines for Forum Debate

[Geo]

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the NSA has substantially increased its spying on Americans in the last 5 years.

I reckon not only on Americans.

[Yitzi]

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the NSA has substantially increased its spying on Americans in the last 5 years.

I reckon not only on Americans.

Yeah, but spying on citizens of other countries isn't really a mark of a police state.

[Geo]

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the NSA has substantially increased its spying on Americans in the last 5 years.

I reckon not only on Americans.

Yeah, but spying on citizens of other countries isn't really a mark of a police state.

Depends on circumstances. Tourists/visitors to said police state for instance.

[Vishniac]

Obama, of course.

Yeah, he's very Chamberlain-like; that's one thing I think both sides can agree to criticize him about, though in different areas.

There's a thing that gets my goat - it's like the entire political right had a secret meeting when he was elected, and decided as one to just throw mud at the man until something stuck.  Do you follow the Daily Show?  After the Republican Convention, they played a clip of Clint Eastwood talking to the empty chair, and Jon Stewart exclaimed "There's an INVISIBLE Obama that only republicans can see!"  The man has failed as a leader, and failed to see that compromise with unvarnished evil; I was sick of all the Opposite Day lies years ago, they could have been hitting him with things he actually did, or failed to do.

Gitmo is still open and NASA has its budget year - for the first time as an adult, I've sat out a presidential election, because he failed the audition rather badly.

For as long as i remember, I have always been pro-US. But now...
Obama is easily the worst US president I have seen (I just didn't know Carter. I barely remember the radio saying Reagan has been elected when en route to school at 10).
Obama is at the same time an idiot, an hypocrite and a coward, and he's clearly more dangerous than W ever was.

[Dio]

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the NSA has substantially increased its spying on Americans in the last 5 years.

I reckon not only on Americans.

Yeah, but spying on citizens of other countries isn't really a mark of a police state.

Depends on circumstances. Tourists/visitors to said police state for instance.

Their is presently no expectation of privacy outside certain locations. Even those locations have limits when it comes to the police and the government.

[Buster's Uncle]

I just want to say that my position on arguing has evolved since the OP; because of our natures as nerdz being what it is, aiming for conversation between people who disagree over argument keeps it calmer, more rational.  Almost the entire difference being that with both parties focused on whatever's under discussion, winning and losing don't muddy maters and get testosterone involved.  (Nerdtosterone is a bad thing, leading to much immaturity and stupid.)

[Buster's Uncle]

I'd still encourage everyone to familiarize themselves with the observations I quoted in the OP - even in a non-adversarial disagreement conversation, almost the whole thing still applies...

[Buster's Uncle]

-Bumping this mostly for an observation that didn't get mentioned in the thread so far - that spontaneous "argument" -really exactly the conversation between friends who don't completely agree/disagree I like to talk about, and it wasn't particularly on purpose on my end. IIRC- between Yitzi and I was actually a MODEL of the purpose of the thread.  Nothing wrong with the cute use of leaderheads -we mostly understood each other well enough, and the huge digressions clarifying where we didn't were interesting and very on-topic for this forum as a whole.  I didn't know Yang said atheist stuff in diplomacy text, 'cause I don't play SMAC(X) in a way that triggers such talk - I learned something, and should have said so.  Yitzi is good people, and that there was a good argument.