Community custom faction balancing - Poll

[ete]

We're going to be taking interesting custom factions and attempting to bring them in line with the official factions to increase diversity of play (I've played so many time with/against the original 14 that it's really refreshing to have some more options).

General principles (feel free to suggest more/reword/pick holes in):

• Each faction should have a distinct feel, both in gameplay and philosophy. Factions which appear to have the greatest potential for interesting distinctiveness will be balanced first.
• We should aim to make factions no more powerful than the strongest non-alien official faction or weaker than the weakest official faction in the hands of a competent human player. Custom alien factions may be on a par with existing aliens.
• Factions which are intended to be stronger or weaker (e.g. to give the AI a chance, to balance out a match with a large skill difference, to make a scenario) will have two versions, one standard (stronger or weaker) and one balanced with respect to other factions.
• Both single and multiplayer balance should be considered.
• Unless a faction is specifically designed for a modded game it should be balanced just for vanilla scient patched SMAX, with some attention payed to vanilla (or AI patched) SMAC. Depending on acceptance of his tweak mod, another version may be created to balance with Yitzi's patch if changes are necessary.
• Making a faction that's used effectively by AI is good, but not absolutely essential.

Okay, now for the fun part: I'd like nominations for our first project. Please pick a custom faction which you find interesting in mechanics or fluff, and briefly explain why you'd like to work on it first.

And if we could try to avoid skipping to specific things to change it's be good, just try and focus on the parts of a faction you like and we'll get ideas for changes later.

[Green1]

What of progenitor factions?

Those are not balanced by design. Although it is a bit offset by having constant War dec with other progenitor factions, if present. Mostly a single player thing, though. I have never seen anyone select one for MP.

I agree, though. We should cull some of the worthless factions to have a "best of" that increases replay value.

[Green1]

For flavor... so far out of what I have played, Antimind is in. What a cool concept. I have had this monster in the last 3 games. Though I do want to put it under a microscope.

We may even need to enlist BU to scan line the ones we select as "best of AC2 custom factions"

[Buster's Uncle]

...I could probably be talked into doing a little graphic tweaking where needed...

[ete]

I'd kind of prefer not to do a progenitor faction first, since they seem likely to be harder to properly balance given that we've only got two reference points rather than twelve, but if other people would like to do one soon or even first then we could. The Antimind is indeed very cool and a terrifying opponent in some situations, but.. I don't think we should take on the challenge of balancing such a monster as our first step.

Also, the idea is not to cull factions, but to have a big archive of all the factions we can get PLUS a category for factions which we've looked over carefully, and direct people towards the well checked/balanced ones first.

BUncle: That would be extremely helpful since my graphical experience is near nill and a fair few of these factions have problems (plenty of transperancy issues in leader pictures).

My first nominations: Freelancers, Dreams of Earth, Guardians of Morality

Freelancer info:

(click to show/hide)

TECH, DocLoy, TECH, Physic, SOCIAL, -MORALE, SOCIAL, --PLANET, SOCIAL, +++ECONOMY, SOCIAL, ++SUPPORT, FACILITY, 17, FACILITY, 1, ENERGY, 25, HURRY, 60, COMMERCE, 1, DRONE, 4
Values, Wealth, SUPPORT
Future Society, Eudaimonic, nil

^-1 MORALE: {Mercenaries fighting other peoples wars}
^-2 PLANET: {No respect for the environment}
^-3 ECONOMY: {Contract earnings} (note:+3 ingame)
^+2 SUPPORT: {Excellent supply lines}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Research Hospital (for casualties) at each base.}
^{Headquarters at each base}
^60% HURRY COSTS: {Factories geared up for wartime production.}
^{May Not use Eudaimonic future society (military regime)}

I like how differently they play thanks to the free HQ everywhere. It'll be quite a challenge to balance them effectively, and perhaps it'll encourage ICS too much or something like that, but keeping the core HQ everywhere+mercenary idea gives plenty of ways to go. Also, giving the AI the +3 econ version is very fun to play against.

Dreams of Earth info

(click to show/hide)

TECH, Ecology, SOCIAL, -PLANET, SOCIAL, -INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, ++MORALE, SOCIAL, --POLICE, FACILITY, 14, UNIT, 1, UNIT, 1, TERRAFORM, 0
Economics, Planned, MORALE
Economics, Green, nil

^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry ruined Earths biosphere}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

Free Hybrid Forest is the key idea here, along with teraforming bonuses. It's great fun roleplaying them too, just try and spread your forests as far and wide as possible. They've got a distinct philosophy and plan from any of the original 14, being directly anti-Planet but pro earth nature, which does make them slightly awkward on social engineering, but it's still interesting.

Guardians of Morality info

(click to show/hide)

SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, +SUPPORT, SOCIAL, +++POLICE, SOCIAL, --GROWTH, SOCIAL, --RESEARCH, SOCIAL, -PROBE, SOCIAL, -TALENT, FACILITY, 22, POPULATION, -1, FANATIC, 0
  Future Society, Thought Control, POLICE
  Future Society, Eudaimonic, nil

^+3 POLICE: {ironfisted rule}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Forced Labor}
^+1 SUPPORT: {dedication to war effort}
^-2 RESEARCH: {many subjects forbidden}
^-1 PROBE: {distrust computers}
^-2 GROWTH: {personal relationships controlled, many people escape or die trying}
^free genejack factory at each base: {may not use eudaimoniac // +25% attack {fanatic}}

These guys seem ideologically a cross between the Hive and Believers, a religious police state. There's no single concept in their bonuses I'm attached to unlike the others I've nominated, but they are an interesting faction to play, and forced some significant changes to my usual playstyle. The combined effect of -2 Research and -2 Growth massively stunts early game development, but at the same time Genejack factories and Industry give you much better production than anyone else, and the Support/Fanatic bonuses make for a great army. I think with a few tweaks this could be an excellent addition to the game.

[Green1]

Excellent choices.

I am going to look at more of the things in both our archives and others.

There IS one type faction I think is missing. We need a celebrity faction that is ultra media. Think Mars One/ Big Brother/ Cult of Personality or the times they wanted to put variuos celebrities in space. Makes sense they would want publicity from pop culture icons to provide Unity funding. I will hunt further through NN and see if I missed something, but I do not think there has been a serious fitting faction developed.

That was one of the reason I asked about Chuft's Stephanie because I thought it would be something simular, till I actually loaded it and was turned off by cartoonish graphics and kiddie show references.

[ete]

I played a game with a faction like that, I think it was called showbiz, let's see.. Got it.

(click to show/hide)

The Showbiz Enterprises, The Celebrity, Showbiz, M, 1, Titania, F, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
  TECH, IndEcon, FACILITY, 11, COMMERCE, 2, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -PLANET, PENALTY, PLANET, INTEREST, 2
  Values, Wealth, ECONOMY
  Economics, Green, nil
  Showbiz, Showbiz

#BLURB
"Ah... that Showbiz!"
^
^        -- Fozzie Bear,
^           upon joining the Showbiz faction

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Superstar Titania Crafter}
^BACKGROUND: {Holywood Movie Mission to film Planet, separate starship}
^AGENDA: {Making life on Planet more exciting}
^TECH: {Industrial Economics}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+1 POLICE: {Followers regulary brain-washed}
^-1 PLANET: {Not interested in the Planetmind}
^+2 COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
^PENALTY for other negative PLANET ratings
^Free HOLOGRAM THEATRES at each base: {Great movie industry}
^Interest rates of +2%: {Accumulates lots of wealth easily}
^{May not use Green Economics.}

This could also be something interesting, the Commerce/energy interest thing is cool, and Hologram Theaters is nice for flavor. I'd be inclined to change a fair amount though, make it more realistic.

Edit: I have managed to open and look at all the NN factions except for:
; COLLECTIVE
; TECH
; REPLCNT
; GENESIS
; ELITE
; DARK
; ACTIVE
; mech
; PEACERES
; MARAUDERS
; PERFECT

which seemed to crash for me. And played games with quite a few of those which don't crash.

[Buster's Uncle]

That was one of the reason I asked about Chuft's Stephanie because I thought it would be something simular, till I actually loaded it and was turned off by cartoonish graphics and kiddie show references.

...But. But... 

It's funny!  chuft is da bomb!

[Green1]

I played a game with a faction like that, I think it was called showbiz, let's see.. Got it.

(click to show/hide)

The Showbiz Enterprises, The Celebrity, Showbiz, M, 1, Titania, F, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
  TECH, IndEcon, FACILITY, 11, COMMERCE, 2, SOCIAL, +POLICE, SOCIAL, -PLANET, PENALTY, PLANET, INTEREST, 2
  Values, Wealth, ECONOMY
  Economics, Green, nil
  Showbiz, Showbiz

#BLURB
"Ah... that Showbiz!"
^
^        -- Fozzie Bear,
^           upon joining the Showbiz faction

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Superstar Titania Crafter}
^BACKGROUND: {Holywood Movie Mission to film Planet, separate starship}
^AGENDA: {Making life on Planet more exciting}
^TECH: {Industrial Economics}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+1 POLICE: {Followers regulary brain-washed}
^-1 PLANET: {Not interested in the Planetmind}
^+2 COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
^PENALTY for other negative PLANET ratings
^Free HOLOGRAM THEATRES at each base: {Great movie industry}
^Interest rates of +2%: {Accumulates lots of wealth easily}
^{May not use Green Economics.}

This could also be something interesting, the Commerce/energy interest thing is cool, and Hologram Theaters is nice for flavor. I'd be inclined to change a fair amount though, make it more realistic.

Edit: I have managed to open and look at all the NN factions except for:
; COLLECTIVE
; TECH
; REPLCNT
; GENESIS
; ELITE
; DARK
; ACTIVE
; mech
; PEACERES
; MARAUDERS
; PERFECT

which seemed to crash for me. And played games with quite a few of those which don't crash.

You are not the lone ranger, ete. Many of those factions are not SMAX compliant, some have bad misspellings, and others have awful formatting. It makes me wonder if some of those kids back in the day actually played the creations before uploading. Network Node needed a content moderator to enforce standards.

[Green1]

Alright... did not get a chance to play with showbiz. I like some of the content, but do not like the delivery of this faction.

#DATALINKS1
^LEADER: {Superstar Titania Crafter}
^BACKGROUND: {Holywood Movie Mission to film Planet, separate starship}
^AGENDA: {Making life on Planet more exciting}
^TECH: {Industrial Economics}
^

#DATALINKS2
^+1 POLICE: {Followers regulary brain-washed}
^-1 PLANET: {Not interested in the Planetmind}
^+2 COMMERCE: {bonus increases value of treaties, pacts, loans}
^PENALTY for other negative PLANET ratings
^Free HOLOGRAM THEATRES at each base: {Great movie industry}
^Interest rates of +2%: {Accumulates lots of wealth easily}
^{May not use Green Economics.}

My suggestions.

- rename to something more fitting to AC universe
- Fozzie Bear audio blurb has no place
- increase POLICE to +2. We are talking a society with cameras everywhere.
- commerce is okay. planet is okay
- to offset commerce and for more immersion, -2 Efficiency penalty. Hollywood actresses would not be the most effecient rulers.
- +interest rates? I do not see how this fits faction concept.
- maybe +1 GROWTH. I could see a society where sex is glamorized.
- misspellings (holywood instead of Hollywood)

I will get to work on these changes. I also need to put this in game so I can make sure there is no silly .pcx.

[ete]

If you'd like to test things yourself that's fine, but I'd like to keep this co-ordinated and not jump ahead to changing a faction officially before we've even selected which one we're doing first. If you'd like to nominate that for our first that's cool, but as I edited into the OP let's not do specific suggestions for changes in this thread (though most of your are sane, but still. wait for the change suggestion thread.).

Edit: This is mostly to prevent there being loads of semi-official forks which only one or two people have checked, if we can get everyone's attention on one faction at a time (or a few overlapping ones) that'll ensure higher quality and more ideas. Also, prevents going off topic. This topic is just to get ideas about which factions we should work on, next will be a poll, then we'll work on the top one. Later on maybe streamline the process.

[Green1]

Sane..lol. That is a new one.

Yeah.. I did load it up and test it. The faction color is god-awful. However, the .pcxs all seem in order and not too ridiculous.It even has BU -approved scan lines. I would nominate it for the mere fact it is a legit idealology that Alpha Centauri is missing as long as it is altered accordingly.

However, the arguement could be made that in the 1990s widespread "reality" dramas were in thier infancy. Also does not explain what happened to Los Angelos and Hollywood if the United States moved to a fundy Christian state like most of the wargamers and roleplayers at the time thought it was. Remember, SMAX was made during the time DnD books were being burned and video games like DOOM were a sure path to a life of worshipping the devil and becoming a serial killer.

It would be nice to keep that flavor intact for any official recommended AC2 approved Network Node factions.

Any changes, though, I think we should still give credit in the .txt to the original designers. Maybe an "edited and adapted by xxx at Alpha Centauri2.info (2013)" in the credits, too if we decide to go that route instead of dumping it altogether.

[ete]

Yep, we'll definitely leave any original credits in there. I'm comfortable with making flavor changes which make factions more fitting for the AC universe (unless the factions were not really intended to be in the AC universe, like Star Wars factions or more jokey ones).

[Green1]

Yep, we'll definitely leave any original credits in there. I'm comfortable with making flavor changes which make factions more fitting for the AC universe (unless the factions were not really intended to be in the AC universe, like Star Wars factions or more jokey ones).

Yeah. It is not in the Network Node, but there is a Star Trek faction that all the bases are just Enterprise saucer sections crashed into planet. Just silly.

I have seen various incarnations of the Borg including BU's OTHERBORG which is the superior effort and more representative of what the faction actually is. However, in playtesting, I found some things that put me off. For one thing, the Borg would never have treaties of friendship with anyone. If they were getting butt handed to them like in Star Trek: Voyager, they would truce but never back down from assimilation. They sure as hell would not be on a council with any votes.

I could see a "borg-like" progenitor -type faction, though. The borg were basically the over powered progs of the Next Generation  universe.

But enough about prog factions I just like the crossfire deal of "OMG! What am I going to do about these monsters!" gameplay occasionally.

Let me play through some more, and I will come with more nominations and downvotes.

I will say ANYTHING with the word "magic" in it automatically gets the boot. Get your fantasy RPG out of my sci-fi survivalist playground, thank you

[Buster's Uncle]

Yep, we'll definitely leave any original credits in there. I'm comfortable with making flavor changes which make factions more fitting for the AC universe (unless the factions were not really intended to be in the AC universe, like Star Wars factions or more jokey ones).

Yeah. It is not in the Network Node, but there is a Star Trek faction that all the bases are just Enterprise saucer sections crashed into planet. Just silly.

Yo' momma.  That faction had Spartan bases before I did something about it.  You got a better idea?