HtH Ladder Earthmichael vs. Kirov - TTT

[Earthmichael]

 

[Kirov]

 

[Earthmichael]

 

[Kirov]

 

[Yitzi]

I've come to think that the only viable opening with techs (if not Morgan) is CE, then IA, then D:Flex (or D:Init if you're in the mood) and then either EnvEcon or D:AP, depending on the situation. Full possible tech slider at least until IA, cash for SE harvested from MW.

I assume you're specifically talking about the map in question.  On other maps, a momentum focus can pay off (it's risky, but so is everything), and of course on a seven-player map as Roze (or with the Planetary Datalinks) you're best off avoiding the usual beelines.

[Earthmichael]

 

[Earthmichael]

I don't use Kirov's opening with techs.  With most factions, I beeline Planetary Networks, IA, CE, then there is a bit of a conditional.  If I feel hard pressed for defense, I beeline D: AP next.  Otherwise, I beeline Bio-Engineering next (unless I feel this one tech deflection might cause me to lose the race to MMI).

Then, if CBA has not been banned, I feel forced to beeline MMI.  Otherwise, I definitely do Bio-Engineering next, followed by Ecological Engineering and Environmental Economics (asssuming again that I am not pressed to need helicopters for defense and that helicopters are not banned).

With Morgan, I prioritize Industrial Economics first, for a quick move to FM. 

With Pirates, I would work in the sea boosting techs.

With Gaia and Prophets, I would get Centauri Empathy earlier.

If the map has pods scattered everywhere, I may go out to sea earlier to collect more pods.

And so on.  As I said, I do not think there is a single viable opening for the tech that works for all factions and all situations.

[Kirov]

Yeah, this was the moment to give up I meant - your switching to FM.

As for the beeline - I meant a CMN-made balanced, unknown map with zero-to-low number of formers. Without lovely starting points where you can go about and build colony pods without prior land improvement. Hence CE first. Then IA, for obvious reasons. Then sea, so you can (and you have to) explore.

EM, do you also wait with CE in the single player standard "2 colony pods, 1 scout patrol" issue? Because I can hardly imagine such an opening.

[Earthmichael]

 

[Earthmichael]

As for the beeline - I meant a CMN-made balanced, unknown map with zero-to-low number of formers. Without lovely starting points where you can go about and build colony pods without prior land improvement. Hence CE first. Then IA, for obvious reasons. Then sea, so you can (and you have to) explore.

EM, do you also wait with CE in the single player standard "2 colony pods, 1 scout patrol" issue? Because I can hardly imagine such an opening.

The timing of CE for me depends upon how bad the map is, but to answer your question, I do generally wait on CE even with a 2 CP / 1 scout start, or even with a single CP start.

If there is at least one square near my starting point with at least a 2N/1M resource production, then I generally plunk my first base on the worse square (or better yet a special resource square) in range of the 2/1 (or better).  [Since the mosture and mineral of the base square does not matter, best to use up a barren square for the base, unless there is something nearby that CAN be of use to the base, such as a special resource square or jungle or river.]

Assuming such a square is available, I will build at least 1 or 2 scouts, and then generally start pumping out colony pods.

Since I would not generally want to build a former right away, there is no particular rush to get CE until I would like to build a former.  Often the "opportunity" to research CE will come soon enough, as a sidetrack to IA.  (CE is my prefered sidetrack.)  What I have found is if I take CE first, I often will add extra sidetracks on the way to IA.  But if I wait until a sidetrack is forced, I generally only have the one sidetrack to IA.

Now if I survey my starting position and see that there is nothing better than a 1/1 after moving my scout and one of my colony pods, then I will assume that my world is highly eroded and I will not be able to begin with expansion until I build a former or two.  In this case, I will research CE first.  (As I said, my tech strategy is always map dependent.)  I generally don't like to play such maps, since such poor starting terrain will add many, many turns to the game.

Similarly, if after scouting I find that my starting position is an island that will support only a few cities, then I will advance when I research D:Flex.

One thing occurs to me that you may be assuming: I do not try for ICS spacing of ctiies.  I place my ctiies opportunisitically, based on the natural terrain, usually at least 4 squares apart, and sometimes more, depending upon how I feel I can best utilize the terrain.

[Kirov]

Fungus in Rho Yards.

EM, to be honest I'm just clicking around right now, there is no way I can recover from this bad spacing. Although I still think ICS is poweful, it's obvious that I need a different approach for Vets, at least for the opening. The problem is, I'd probably need to practice it in a single player game (there are many various things you need to take into account on Vets) and I just don't have time for this for a couple of weeks. Have a big project for 31st Jan and will probably be late with it and keep working on. So we can kill some time if you want to, but I won't catch up and I can surrender in this very moment.

Your notes on CE are interesting, maybe I should try it out as well. Still, the Vets is a specific map. I wonder what you think about unknown maps where stuff like AI and exploration is an issue.

[Earthmichael]

... So we can kill some time if you want to, but I won't catch up and I can surrender in this very moment.

Your notes on CE are interesting, maybe I should try it out as well. Still, the Vets is a specific map. I wonder what you think about unknown maps where stuff like AI and exploration is an issue.

I understand being busy.  I am not right now, but November and early December were quite busy for me.  So we can postpone any further games until you get some time clear.  I think it is a great idea to play any map on your own first if you can, before MPing.  Of course, sometimes the MP map is secret, so you can't do that.  But I would definitely encourage playing the Vets map on your own to gain experience with how to best start from each of the 4 starting positions.  (The positions are not exactly equivalent, although they are pretty balanced.)  I also did this where I controlled two factions, to get some experience of how a 2 faction vs. 2 faction game could work.

If you want to continue the game to gain experience, that is fine with me.  But if that is not the best use of your time right now, I totally understand and will accept your surrender.

I current have 4 MP games underway on unknown maps, some with enhanced AI.  Except the game where I am playing Gaia, I deferred CE until after IA, focusing on exploration and expansion instead.  I still think this was the best choice.

[Kirov]

Damn, and yesterday I thought I was busy... Today I got a notice about my upcoming state exam for a sworn translator. The written part is scheduled for 21 Feb and if I make it, then the oral part is one month later. It's really difficult to pass, so I badly need to focus on learning. I'm afraid I'll only be pushing turns in the games I'm already in. See you around and wish me luck! (on 21 Feb)

[Earthmichael]

Good luck!

Here is the latest turn, but don't worry about playing it until you have free time, if ever, since it looks like we decided to start a new game instead of continuing this one.

But just in case you feel like it, here it is: