HtH Ladder Earthmichael vs. Kirov - TTT

[Earthmichael]

As long as you don't start out with Biogenetics (which is a sidetrack in itself), Morgan has a no-sidetrack path to Industrial Automation, at least in the scenario file I tested.  I personally would have beelined Morgan directly to Free Market then IA, and would have gone for Biogenetics afterwards.  I feel that the benefits of the early society changes are more important that early Recycling Centers.  But as I said earlier, that is a judgement call, faster early research verses faster early expansion.

The Vets map is really made to be played starting with at least 2 formers.  There are several interesting features near the starting position for the formers to exploit, so part of the strategy of each player is to decide which to exploit first.

As long as you beeline to IA (which I think is the best strategy anyway), I don't think you have to sidetrack to CE, so the position with respect to formers is balanced for both tearms.

 

[Kirov]

Well, I'm quite sure I want to start with Biogenetics, I picked it up from the best Morgan player I've ever met, CEO Aaron. He had a long-standing reputation to know the ins and outs of the Morganites and he claimed Tanks are crucial for early expansion.

I'm sure I can expect "Bio then straight to IA" in the same way you expected "just straight to IA" option and wanted to change places. But no starting point grants me that, so an alternative would be in order. Either no formers or for example CE pre-given in the scenario, something like that.

[Earthmichael]

I think the best alternative would just be to reverse positions and replay the same scenario, exactly as is.

To me, the best indication that a scenario is truly balanced is that I am willing to play either side, including the one that my opponent believes is disadvantaged.  If you believe the current scenario disadvantages the Morgan player, but I do not, then I think the best alternative for our replay is for me to play Morgan.

[Earthmichael]

Well, the opinion of CEO Aaron aside, I have played several maps myself with beeline to IA versus Biogenetics.  Although Biogenetics expands faster, at some point (which is map dependent), further expansion is pointless until some drone supressing secret projects are built, or until tech research allows some drone suppressing structures to be built.

By playing both ways to this point, I find that with the beeline to IA, I catch up to the expansion point of the Biogenetic approach, but the IA approach is way ahead on research at that turn.

I suggest you play a map both ways for the same number of turns, at least 50+ turns, and see what position you like best.  Then you can decide for yourself whether the Biogenetics approach is best, or whether the beeline to AI is best.  Then you will not be depending upon the opinion of CEO Aaron, Earthmichael, or anyone else.

 

[Kirov]

Well, maybe I will test it, I'm not fond of playing Aki just yet. There is something off about her (this is purely emotional, I just don't like Aki too much, although took a replacement for her in another game).

In the single player mode I never use the "just IA" and I'm surprised that you do. "CE first, then IA" is my way with every other faction, with Morgan on single player I would do Biogenetics first, then CE. In a normal game you start without any formers, without terraformed terrain you're not even able to have the continuity of colony pods, let alone use roads.

Which is why I think the approach that we don't get exactly our way but both need to research CE (i.e. no formers) is most natural and balanced here, I honestly fail to see any problem here.

Meanwhile, the Virtual World is poised for completion.

[Earthmichael]

I will not accept the alternative you proposed of eliminating the starting formers.   If you want to eliminate the starting formers, I believe it unbalances the scenario in favor of Morgan.  So I will play as you suggest with no starting formers, but ONLY as Morgan.

If you want to be a purist and have a "normal game", we can just both start with a single colony pod and nothing else.  If that is what you want, that is fine with me.  Just edit the scenario down to the single colony pods.

The whole point behind starting with extra scouts, formers, and colony pods is to speed up the start so that the overall game gets reduced by quite a few turns.

As I said, if you want to start with just a single colony pod each, I am fine with that.  But I don't like the idea of just eliminating the formers because you don't like the way the Morgan tech tree works out if you start with Biogenetics.

I AM WILLING to play the current scenario as is with Morgan.  So I suggest that we pick from the following alternatives:

1. We play the scenario as currently designed with you playing Morgan.

2. We play the scenario as currently design with me playing Morgan.

3. We eliminate the formers, and I play as Morgan.

4. We both start with a single colony pod, and you play Morgan.

Since options 1 and 2 let you pick either side you want of the current scenario, one can't get any more fair than that!!!  If you think one side has an advantage in the current scenario, then by all means pick that side!

If you don't like any of these 4 options, then you design the scenario however you like, with whatever factions you like.  Don't use Aki as one of the factions if you don't like to player her; pick two factions where you like to play both.   But then once you have designed what you feel is a balanced scenario, I get the choice of side I wish to play.

That is the way I settle disputes with my children when splitting a cake: one child splits the cake as fairly as he can, and the other child chooses which piece of cake he will take.  This way, neither can argue about the fairness of the arrangement.

[Earthmichael]

Normally, I go for Virtual World, which I think is the strongest of the early projects for the long term.  So, good choice on your part!  But just for a lark, this time I went for PTS, which is very strong in the short term, but has almost zero effect for the long term.

So we will see how that works out.

 

[Kirov]

OK, we'll see later. This conversation took a slightly strange turn to me.

 

[Earthmichael]

Yes, I guess it is better to focus on the current game, instead of worrying about the next one.

Congratulations on VW!  I was hoping you would pick ME instead  .  This could be an interesting game; me with the short term project, and you with the long term project.  You clearly have the tech lead also, but PTS gives me the development lead.

 

[Kirov]

Great, now I have a mind worm coming right at a base of mine. I hope I'll make it.

Thanks, to be honest I'd surrender immediately if you had taken both PTS and VW. I prefer the former, by a wide margin actually. I expect to loose the tech lead soon with PTS in your hands, but let's not panic and see what happens.

[Earthmichael]

I know what you mean.  I have already had to kill 3 or more roving mindworms, which seems like a lot for not having abundant lifeforms.  It is one thing for a mindworm to pop when you go through fungus; that is pretty normal.  But there have been a lot of just roving mindworms.  Luckily, it is still early enough that I think they are still at half strength.

 

[Kirov]

Uff, he's gone. I don't hunt for mw anymore, it's too late. They are at half strength only until 2115. It's my first that popped up just like that, but I probably have only like half of your territory at this moment.

[Earthmichael]

Probably true about the territory.  My base spacing is pretty far apart.

[Kirov]

 

[Earthmichael]

The Weather Paradigm is poised for completion.