AC2 & Forum Politics

[Lord Avalon]

Avalon, I didn't welcome you before.  I now do.  We're very glad to have you at AC2.

Greetings.  Fascinating how this game of factions has spawned a bunch of fora. 

[Buster's Uncle]

Fascinating that it's still touching so many people after so many years and brings us together.  It's that good.



Edit:

this game of factions has spawned a bunch of fora.

Correction: the game has spawned exactly ONE forum.  This one.  All else is afterthought subs on Civ sites.  Here, we're finally masters in our own house.

[Lord Avalon]

Edit:

this game of factions has spawned a bunch of fora.

Correction: the game has spawned exactly ONE forum.  This one.  All else is afterthought subs on Civ sites.  Here, we're finally masters in our own house.

Whatever.  I was making no distinction between forum and subforum.

[Rymdolov]

I notice I'm damaged by facebook - Whenever I see a interesting and/or funny post I start looking for the like button. And that happens all the time - you people are so likable. 

My apologies for excessive cuteness, btw. 

[Buster's Uncle]

You have nothing to apologize for.  We love Kilkakon anyway, so your cuteness doesn't even register.

Edit:

this game of factions has spawned a bunch of fora.

Correction: the game has spawned exactly ONE forum.  This one.  All else is afterthought subs on Civ sites.  Here, we're finally masters in our own house.

Whatever.  I was making no distinction between forum and subforum.

Whatever indeed.  I find the distinction to be a CRUCIAL one, not to mean to come off snippy or anything.  I've tried all the subforums, and find that having our own place really matters.  The proof is all araound you in what we've been able to get going in less than a year.

[Lord Avalon]

Edit:

this game of factions has spawned a bunch of fora.

Correction: the game has spawned exactly ONE forum.  This one.  All else is afterthought subs on Civ sites.  Here, we're finally masters in our own house.

Whatever.  I was making no distinction between forum and subforum.

Whatever indeed.  I find the distinction to be a CRUCIAL one, not to mean to come off snippy or anything.  I've tried all the subforums, and find that having our own place really matters.  The proof is all araound you in what we've been able to get going in less than a year.

If there had not been a splintering of the various Civ-oriented fora, would you still have created a SMAC/X-specific forum?

[Rymdolov]

If there had not been a splintering of the various Civ-oriented fora, would you still have created a SMAC/X-specific forum?

I haven't been involved in forum politics, but from what sisko and BUncle have told me, I think the answer to that one is yes. The splintering is not the point, the point is to not be regarded as Civ's weird hillbilly cousin. 

[Buster's Uncle]

   Good answer, Rym. 

If there had not been a splintering of the various Civ-oriented fora, would you still have created a SMAC/X-specific forum?

If you're asking about the people politics behind my reason for being here, I don't talk about them.  This is just where I hang out now, and want more people to talk to about SMAC(X).  This site isn't about spite, it's not about settling any scores, and it's CERTAINLY not about excluding ANYONE.

It IS about what a great game AC is.  It IS about the AC community, which I believe in, and have worked hard to build for a long time.  There are more fans out there who have yet to find this community than have ever come and gone - and I want all of them here; the oldtimers and the new. 

And I didn't create this site - sisko did, because he's believed in that 'masters in our own house' business for a lot longer than I have.  When I finally came to realize that he was right back in February, I threw my full support behind AC2.  We're not about forum politics, and have avoided bad-mouthing, and indeed, have worked on securing some good inter-forum relations.  I'm somewhat of a regular poster at CFC AC lately.  I was counseling Martin Gühmann about how to breathe some life back into 'poly AC recently, in fact.  A rising tide really does lift all boats.

To directly answer your question, I just don't know; I joined the community about five minutes before the migration to WPC happened; most of the splintering happened before I got here.

Now, we're way OT for this thread, and while I have no objection to discussing this -you're giving me openings to make my ideological/motivational speeches, which I think are important- do you mind if I move some key posts into their own thread in the Counsel Room?  (And ask yourself how many mods ever asked your permission in advance about something like that.)

[Lord Avalon]

No prob, go ahead move them.

[Buster's Uncle]

Thanks.  I only edited your post to change the thread title - I've decided to leave this thread in ToE for now, for the sake of anyone who'd miss it in Council Room, and let sisko decide whether to leave or move it.

---

Tell me, LA; you've been around forever - what do you think the deal is with all the splintering fora? 

(I'd really love to get DarkCloud here writing up a history of the community.  He loves that kind of stuff.)

Anyone else who's been around at least six or seven years care to speak up on your insights about this?  It's something we all need to understand if we're to avoid the mistakes of the past...

[Lord Avalon]

This is getting a bit deeper than I meant (not that there's anything wrong with that).  I was merely drawing an analogy between a game with factions and the various places to find a SMAC/X (sub)forum.

Being somewhat new here, from things I read I mistakenly assumed you had created this site.

Actually, I wasn't at Apolyton in the old, old days (joined post Civ 4).  There may have been some personal history between people of which I'm unaware.  I wasn't entirely clear on why some people broke off and created We Play Civ.  Some differences of opinion on the way to run things, plus things getting heated.  I signed up there, but spent more time hanging around 'Poly, where I was most active.  Then there came the subforum at CivGaming.net - was that for the hosting of scient's patch?  Finally found my way here.

[Buster's Uncle]

  I actually know the answer to all those questions about '09 and beyond in pretty fine detail, but I want to be a peacemaker, not stir up bad feelings and possibly reignite/get involved in old wars, which spilling my guts might do.

The short answer about WPC is that there was much unhapiness about 'poly trolling policy, and when the site changed owners, two admins who'd been looking to strike out on their own already figured that was their cue to go for it.  Some others, largely SMACers motivated by that trolling issue, jumped on the bus pretty enthusiastically with the recruiting, and so WPC got a lot of traction, especially in the AC community, before it settled into its current doldrums.

CGN was founded by two guys (I've never met) who were banned at 'poly at the time a very long time ago.  It did very well for several years, finally ran out of gas and passed into the hands of buster (no relation).  vyeh got a modship from buster and revived it in mid '09 - I'm not sure what his actual goal was, but I think he thought that hosting the very popular scientIffic patch and work on it with the very popular scient would lead to bigger things.  At any rate, he was certainly correct that scient's patch was a worthwhile thing in itself.  Like everyone else, scient wishes he had more time for it.

I know nothing about the origins of CFC, and its success is a mystery to me.


It's an easy mistake to make about who's in charge here, I guess.  sisko and I work closely together, but the division of labor we naturally fall into is that he mostly handles tech issues and overall forum design, while I do most of the forum-wide talking and people management - so I'm a lot more visible, at least outside MP.  It suits our personalities and interests; we work on promoting the site and getting that word out about equally, but my part shows more if you don't do FaceBook.  He's actually the owner, though, and although we regard each other as pretty equal partners, I try to defer to him; it creates a wise balance between his natural caution ond my natural enthusiasm.

To the extent any of this catches your interest at all, I recommend this thread: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2293.0  When you've waded through my cheerleading speeches (they work!) and some chatter, there's a lot in there about our philosphy and policies (also, a bit more gossip can be gleaned).

[Unorthodox]

IMO CFC success can be simply tied to better mod support, better community building (with GOTM and similar), and a no nonsense troll policy.  Then you have all the info easily gathered, you go to CFC when you need to look up something (Civ anyway, not so sure AC).  You go elsewhere to shoot the breeze. 

I mean, Poly is the site that BANNED me for advertising their Civ III demogame.  (Upload violation of a poster similar to your GOTM ones designed to increase site traffic.  I posted it straight to the news feed, being on the staff at the time, then got banned for violating upload policy with a "non civ related" upload.  Most amusing the red X on the front page of the site)  That's quality community building there. 

[Buster's Uncle]

I suppose that it's true that a proactive staff is far better for a forum than a lazy one, but I note the generally younger age of CFC's membership demographic and assure you that there's a good reason I won't set foot outside the AC section.  Nobody nerdbagdes me twice.

I still think that a proactive mod staff not on a power trip is the way to go.

[Unorthodox]

That's part of the community building though, really.  They were on board a lot earlier with the more 'social site' additions that BB board offers.  This tends to attract a younger demographic.  Like I say, right now, Civ anyway, they are THE go-to site for information.  Despite my record here, I rarely venture into OT on most boards, actually, so won't comment much about the discussions there.