Author Topic: Reactors and combat bonus  (Read 1875 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2022, 08:41:39 PM »
The main late game liability of mindworms is that they're slow.  This is changed by rails, which is part of why they're pretty much the one true conquest platform of the game.  And although you can consider nerfing rails in various ways, it's way too tedious to push units across a Huge map without them.  My compromise on rails is I've made them take 2x as long to lay down.  This does force the player to think more about how they're laying out a rail system, but eventually in the game, all things become possible.  The game is a race, and if you're way ahead of others in the race, eventually you can do whatever the hell you want.

Locusts are mainly useful for pillaging enemy territory into oblivion.

Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2022, 08:44:07 PM »

Guys, you are answering to minor details missing the main point here! The main point is that the mere presence of psi combat renders high end conventional units useless. They grow in cost but they don't grow in average combat power as their psi strength don't grow and at some point this becomes the prevalent combat type. Just because native units becomes the most economical defender and attackers against such costly monsters.

Game may unlock some 100 weapon and 100 armor somewhere after Locust of Chiron is unlocked - nobody would even bother to rush these research! Once somebody start building them everybody else would automatically switch to natives. End of (SMACX tech tree) story.
😞

Only if you and your enemy have an agreement that you will build only psi and they will not build trash 1-1-2 Empath and 1-1-1 Trance units to cost effectively wipe out your all worm army. Is this how multiplayer games are fought?

You still avoiding addressing the main argument. Yes scout Empath/Trance are great counter against natives. So? How building swarm of trash anti-native unit makes high end conventional unit any more valuable???

Assume you have good mix of high end regular units and anti-natives in you stack at end game fighting against opponent who mixes only natives and anti-natives in their stacks. When they attack you with natives your Trance units take impact and when they run out your natives and high end units die at equal chance. Armor on you high end units is ignored. Then when you attack with your high end units they fight against natives - their weapon is ignored. Obviously, opponent is not going to attack your high end stack with anti-native trash neither you want to attack their stack with your high end units, you'd prefer doing it with your Empath units. Whatever mix you chose there is also a counter mix that turns your high end units into cannon fodder bystanders.

Try to invent a case or mix that makes 100-100-? unit at least twice as more valuable than 50-50-? for example, then we can continue. I am 100% positive this is impossible. You probably know it too seeing how you try to deter discussion to irrelevant details avoiding main question.

Like this one:
The first player to Locusts wins?

When you ever saw me claiming native units are the only and ultimate way to fight? Seriously.

Offline Neil

Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2022, 08:47:15 PM »
You don't have to deploy all your units at once. Use infiltration to see what the enemy has, and make use of the fast movement options (rail, hovertank, air, drop) to send out the right unit type next. Keep the others safely at home until needed.

Offline Nexii

Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2022, 12:58:42 AM »
The best idea I could come up with for native life would be to make the cost go up as the game goes on. Either by highest reactor or highest player tech.

Tricky balancing act, later game units get faster and dual ability allows Empath+Trance

That being said PSI combat just gets stronger later in the game too with Dream Twister, Neural Amp, and more +PLANET rating

Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2022, 01:56:36 AM »
The best idea I could come up with for native life would be to make the cost go up as the game goes on. Either by highest reactor or highest player tech.

Already done in WTP if memory serves me right.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2022, 02:53:56 AM »
Then when you attack with your high end units they fight against natives - their weapon is ignored.

That's why you add Empath Song as one of your offensive high end unit abilities.  That's why you make R-Bolt one of your main endgame weapons.  Otherwise, indeed, you're wasting your time and productivity.

The game has answers.

Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2022, 04:10:27 AM »
Then when you attack with your high end units they fight against natives - their weapon is ignored.

That's why you add Empath Song as one of your offensive high end unit abilities.  That's why you make R-Bolt one of your main endgame weapons.  Otherwise, indeed, you're wasting your time and productivity.

The game has answers.

Are you even reading my posts or just answering random phrases torn out of context? I did mention attacking natives with Empath.

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Reactors and combat bonus
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2022, 11:57:32 AM »
I'm not sure I'm reading your posts to the standard of minute detail they might be worthy of.  It's been late here, and I've had extreme dog drama to contend with.

But I also think, why is there some big discussion and exposition about "can't fight stacks with mindworms" ?  You use a stack selection ability; in this game, that's Empath Song and R-Laser / R-Bolt.  These prevent mindworms from being the designated defenders, so that your big weapon clobbers the conventional unit you want it to clobber.

On the other side of the battle equation, "AI is not making enough Trance units" is the real problem.

Why is there any more to discuss than these 2 observations?  The game has the answers in it already.

 

* User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


Login with username, password and session length

Select language:

* Community poll

SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
-=-
24 (7%)
XP Compatibility patch
-=-
9 (2%)
Gog version for Windows
-=-
103 (32%)
Scient (unofficial) patch
-=-
40 (12%)
Kyrub's latest patch
-=-
14 (4%)
Yitzi's latest patch
-=-
89 (28%)
AC for Mac
-=-
3 (0%)
AC for Linux
-=-
6 (1%)
Gog version for Mac
-=-
10 (3%)
No patch
-=-
16 (5%)
Total Members Voted: 314
AC2 Wiki Logo
-click pic for wik-

* Random quote

The chief aim of their constitution and government is that, whenever public needs permit, all citizens should be free, so far as possible, to withdraw their time and energy from the service of the body, and devote themselves to the freedom and culture of the mind. For that, they think, is the real happiness of life.
~Sir Thomas More ’Utopia’, Datalinks

* Select your theme

*
Templates: 5: index (default), PortaMx/Mainindex (default), PortaMx/Frames (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 8: init, html_above, body_above, portamx_above, main, portamx_below, body_below, html_below.
Language files: 4: index+Modifications.english (default), TopicRating/.english (default), PortaMx/PortaMx.english (default), OharaYTEmbed.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 45 - 1228KB. (show)
Queries used: 38.

[Show Queries]