Should unit abilities be mostly free?

[EmpathCrawler]

Again going off the recent amphibious ability discussion. Should they? It seems like the limitation of only getting one or two abilities per unit is the cost. Maybe just defensive abilities should be free?

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

It's a quantitative question. You are essentially asking should all abilities cost X? And the answer is - no. They should not cost the same. Some of them are more valuable then others which should be reflected in price. The decision about this is by case.

For example, WTP makes unit type abilities (artillery, interceptor) free as they do not give flat bonus but merely requalify the unit. Whereas Clean Reactor ability should not be free as it equals to +1 mineral save per unit which is too much of economical impact. Etc.

[EmpathCrawler]

There's also the qualitative reason: The Unit Workshop sucks, it's tedious to use, and it's hard to understand the price of things. It'd be nice to get rid of some complexity if it won't cause harm to gameplay.

Artillery, Air Superiority: That makes a lot of sense to me, I'll be making that change immediately.

Clean Reactor: If everyone benefits the same, what's the economic impact? The math isn't quite so simple, either. It depends on your support rating, too. Support costs become less impactful as the game goes on, anyway, because of increasing mineral yields/multipliers, the finite gameplay time, and how you're probably swimming in energy and pouring that into hurry builds.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

There's also the qualitative reason: The Unit Workshop sucks, it's tedious to use, and it's hard to understand the price of things. It'd be nice to get rid of some complexity if it won't cause harm to gameplay.

I vote with two hands for simplification. However, I don't see how making abilities cost the same helps with any of the above problems.

People cannot not understand the cost because it is expressed in the mineral cost which varies depending on INDUSTRY rating. It would be cleaner to expressed them in mineral rows which is a fixed attribute of the unit itself not affected by faction SE state. That one thing is patched in WTP making it clearer to understand.

If you are talking about hidden complex formula then it could be patched too making it more transparent and simple.

What I am leading at is that the problem is there. You just attack it from wrong angle. Try to relax and think what exactly is the problem and how it could be changed. Don't just modify things left and right because you can.

Clean Reactor: If everyone benefits the same, what's the economic impact? The math isn't quite so simple, either. It depends on your support rating, too. Support costs become less impactful as the game goes on, anyway, because of increasing mineral yields/multipliers, the finite gameplay time, and how you're probably swimming in energy and pouring that into hurry builds.

You are jumping to conclusion there. It is not "everyone benefits the same" it is "everyone has equal opportunity to use it". Whether one employs this ability is a matter of strategical choice. The cost outweighs benefit so that it is not a no-brainer. It is probably wasteful to slap it on units you send to battle immediately as they would not live long to capitalize on it. And so on.

[EmpathCrawler]

Try to relax and think what exactly is the problem and how it could be changed. Don't just modify things left and right because you can.

This is a rather startling admonition to avoid playing with alphax options coming from the creator of a mod that has made fairly drastic and far-ranging game mechanic changes because you can hack the binary.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Mmm. Sorry. Didn't mean to boss you around or admonish.
😳

Your logical conclusion of "complex workshop" -> "equalize all abilities cost" seemed a bit like a blind shot. I just proposed to ponder on what exactly bothers you and brainstorm it together. Sorry for bad wording.

[bvanevery]

The answer to the titular question is a flat out

NO.

It shows rather much a lack of understanding of the game, to even suggest it.  If someone thinks the game is too tedious to understand, I suggest they either play something else... or acknowledge that their goal is to simplify SMAC into some kind of "bare minimum" game that isn't SMAC.  I've thought about "cut down SMAC" projects before, but I don't confuse that kind of project, for making mods that are basically attempts to improve the game as we know it.  And since I did the "improve SMAC" project in spades, and made my name doing that, I really don't have a motive to do the work for a 2nd "cut down" project.  Better to put the energy into a completely new from scratch 4X game.

What should the different costs be, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to contemplate.  I've contemplated it for almost 4 years now.  You can read what I think in my alphax.txt.  Most of my abilities costs stabilized a long time ago.  The only one I recently changed was Hypnotic Trance.  I went back to it costing 0 when it's a defensive unit, like in the original game.  I needed to nerf the mindworms.  I also doubled its effectiveness.

Heck I'll make my opinions concrete and trivial to access:

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#ABILITIES
Super Former,         1, EcoEng2,  Super,  000000010111, Terraform rate doubled
Deep Radar,             0, DocInit,   ,          010000111111, Sees 2 spaces
Cloaking Field,     1, CentPsi,  Cloaked, 000000111111, Invisible; Ignores ZOCs
Amphibious Pods,1,AdapDoc,Amphibious,000000111001, Attacks from ship
Drop Pods,              2, Fossil,  Drop,      000000111111, Makes air drops
Air Superiority,        1, DocAir,   SAM,      000000001111, Attacks air units
Deep Pressure Hull,    1, DocFlex,  Sub, 000000111010, Operates underwater
Carrier Deck,           1, DocAir,    Carrier, 000101101011, Mobile Airbase
AAA Tracking,           1, DocAir,   AAA,     000010001011, +50% vs. air attacks
Comm Jammer,        1, Surface,    ECM,  001010001001, +25% vs. fast units
Antigrav Struts,        2, Gravity,  Grav,     000000111111, +1 movement rate (or +Reactor*2 for Air)
Empath Song,     1, HomoSup,  Empath,    000010001111, +25% attack vs. Psi
Polymorphic Encryption, 1, Poly, Secure,   000001111111, x2 cost to subvert
Fungicide Tanks,     1, EcoEng,  Fungicidal,  000000010111, Clear fungus at double speed
High Morale,            4, Disable,    Trained,  000000001111, Gains morale upgrade
Heavy Artillery,        0, Chaos,     Artillery, 000010001001, Bombards
Clean Reactor,          2, None,   Clean,    000001111111, Requires no support
Blink Displacer,        4, Thresh,   Blink,  000000001111, Bypass base defenses
Hypnotic Trance,       -1, Neural, Trance, 000011001111, +50% defense vs. Psi
Heavy Transport,        2, DocFlex,  Heavy, 000100100111, +50% transport capacity
Nerve Gas Pods,         2, Physic,  X,        000010001111, Can +50% offense (Atrocity)
Repair Bay,             1, NanoMin,    Repair, 000100100111, Repairs ground units on board
Non-Lethal Methods,    1, PlaNets,    Police, 010000001001, x2 Police powers
Slow Unit,              0, Disable,  Slow,        000000111111, -1 moves
Soporific Gas Pods,     4, SentRes,  Gas,   000000001111, -2 Enemy morale vs. non-native
Dissociative Wave,      4, TempMec,  Wave,  000000001111, Fizzles special abilities
Marine Detachment,  1, AdapDoc, Marine, 000000001010, Capture enemy ships
Fuel Nanocells,      2, NanoMin, Nanocell,  000000111100, Increased air range
Algorithmic Enhancement,1, HAL9000,  Enhanced, 100000100111, Halves probe team failure
Note that if I made something cost 4, I also probably made it so late in the game, that you'll never actually use it.  Not if you intend to win the game as quickly as possible.  I call that sort of thing, "soft retirement".  It's still there for people who like to sandbox.

People cannot not understand the cost because it is expressed in the mineral cost which varies depending on INDUSTRY rating. It would be cleaner to expressed them in mineral rows which is a fixed attribute of the unit itself not affected by faction SE state. That one thing is patched in WTP making it clearer to understand.

And another solution, which I did in my mod and anyone can do in theirs, is not have INDUSTRY in the SE table.  I don't believe in it.  It's overpowered.  I let the Free Drones have +1 INDUSTRY as their faction bonus and that's it.  Any human player playing a faction, they never make any decision about INDUSTRY.  Shuffling back and forth to get a better deal on Secret Projects was an extremely tedious play mechanic.  In my mod, it's gone.  One size fits all.  Except the Free Drones, who take their discount.  Your costs might change between games, but during the same game, everything is the same.

[bvanevery]

This is a rather startling admonition to avoid playing with alphax options coming from the creator of a mod that has made fairly drastic and far-ranging game mechanic changes because you can hack the binary.

I vouch for the conscientiousness of Tim's work.  And my own.

"Make nearly everything cost 0" is not conscientious.  Unless your goal is to make "cut down" SMAC.  Kind of like I heard "Civ Revolutions" on XBox was simplified Civ.  Never played it.

[EmpathCrawler]

Mmm. Sorry. Didn't mean to boss you around or admonish.
😳

Your logical conclusion of "complex workshop" -> "equalize all abilities cost" seemed a bit like a blind shot. I just proposed to ponder on what exactly bothers you and brainstorm it together. Sorry for bad wording.

Well I didn't say "equalize all abilities cost", though. I said mostly free, and even further qualified it by "maybe just defensive abilities."

Let's just go down the list and I'll tell you what I think about each one. I have to make a second post because for some reason what I did isn't cooperating with this forum software.

[EmpathCrawler]

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Super Former,           1, EcoEng2,  Super,     000000010111, Terraform rate doubledSuper Formers come pretty late for their effect to have much of an impact. It's likely most of your terraforming has already been completed. Free.

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Deep Radar,             0, MilAlg,   ,          010000111111, Sees 2 spacesAlready free.

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Cloaking Device,        1, Surface,  Cloaked,   000001111001, Invisible; Ignores ZOCsMostly useless, particularly in single player. Free or remove. It'd be nice if the AI would use it to make sneak attacks.

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Amphibious Pods,        1, DocInit,  Amphibious,000000001001, Attacks from shipRemove for reasons discussed elsewhere.

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Drop Pods,              2, MindMac,  Drop,      000000111001, Makes air dropsExtremely powerful in human hands. Maybe even make it more expensive?

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Air Superiority,        1, DocAir,   SAM,       000000001111, Attacks air unitsChanges function of unit into something less flexible. Make free.

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Deep Pressure Hull,     1, Metal,    Sub,       000000111010, Operates underwaterUseless, free or remove.

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Carrier Deck,           1, Metal,    Carrier,   000101101010, Mobile AirbaseUseless or I don't play big enough maps to justify it, free or remove.

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AAA Tracking,           1, MilAlg,   AAA,       000010001011, x2 vs. air attacksNeedlejets (and anyone brave enough to play against Copters) are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make Needlejet spam more costly.

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Comm Jammer,           -1, Subat,    ECM,       000010111001, +50% vs. fast unitsRover assaults are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make rover spam more costly.

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Antigrav Struts,        1, Gravity,  Grav,      000000111001, +1 movement rate (or +Reactor*2 for Air)Extra movement point, particularly for infantry, is powerful. Keep a cost.

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Empath Song,            2, CentEmp,  Empath,    000010001111, +50% attack vs. PsiOnly useful on the attack, but 2 is probably too expensive for the bonus it gives. Psi attacker already gets an advantage.

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Polymorphic Encryption, 1, Algor,    Secure,    000000111111, x2 cost to subvertDoes anyone use this? Free or remove.

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Fungicide Tanks,        1, Fossil,   Fungicidal,000000010111, Clear fungus at double speedLike Super Formers, comes late and by then forests will be spreading all over fungus. May also help the AI if it's free. Make free.

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High Morale,            1, Integ,    Trained,   000000001111, Gains morale upgradeCould be valuable depending on the faction? Keep a cost.

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Heavy Artillery,       -7, Poly,     Artillery, 000010001001, BombardsChanges function of unit into something less flexible. Make free.

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Clean Reactor,          2, BioEng,   Clean,     000000111111, Requires no supportStill unconvinced this is really that useful unless you have crazy support issues or no minerals. I'd like to see actual calculations.

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Blink Displacer,        1, Matter,   Blink,     000000001111, Bypass base defensesNever really used these, lol. Seems very powerful, probably should be more expensive if only to limit the player.

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Hypnotic Trance,       -1, Brain,    Trance,    000010111111, +50% defense vs. PsiAI could use these in the early game, and Thinker even gives away the prototype for Trance Scouts. Free?

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Heavy Transport,        1, Disable,  Heavy,     000100100111, +50% transport capacityNah.

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Nerve Gas Pods,         1, Chemist,  X,         000011001101, Can +50% offense (Atrocity)Only useful on the attack. Powerful but with an economic/ecological cost. Should cost something.

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Repair Bay,             1, Metal,    Repair,    000100100111, Repairs ground units on boardUseless. Free or remove.

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Non-Lethal Methods,     1, Integ,    Police,    000000001001, x2 Police powersMight as well be free since you're probably using a 1-1-1 cop unit, which Thinker even provides.

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Slow Unit,              0, Disable,  Slow,      000000111111, -1 movesn/a

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Soporific Gas Pods,     1, Bioadap,  Gas,       000001001101, -2 Enemy morale vs. non-nativeI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems really powerful?

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Dissociative Wave,      2, CentPsi,  Wave,      000000111111, Fizzles special abilitiesI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational but pretty powerful in the right hands?

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Marine Detachment,      1, AdapDoc,  Marine,    000001001010, Capture enemy shipsI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational?

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Fuel Nanocells,         1, MatComp,  Nanocell,  000000111100, Increased air rangeI don't use SMAX stuff. Just enable antigrav struts for air. +1 net movement seems incredibly weak.

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Algorithmic Enhancement,1, NanoMin,  Enhanced,  100000111111, Halves probe team failureI do use this one. Giving it away for free might help the AI use Enhanced probes against the owner of the HSA?

[bvanevery]

Super Formers come pretty late for their effect to have much of an impact. It's likely most of your terraforming has already been completed. Free.

No way.  You are showing a really pronounced play style bias here.  I've generally got all sorts of rails to drive all the way across Huge maps.

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Cloaking Device,        1, Surface,  Cloaked,   000001111001, Invisible; Ignores ZOCsMostly useless, particularly in single player. Free or remove. It'd be nice if the AI would use it to make sneak attacks.

The AI will use it for sneak attacks if you create predefined units for it.  I've used them in a lot of releases of my mod, and those sneak units can be very annoying for the human player.  The problem is deciding on a unit configuration that has an acceptable cost, that the AI will actually build, and that is profitable for the AI to deploy in force.  Because the stock AI is likely to obsess about producing predefined units.  Currently I have only:

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Cloaked R-Laser Speeder,  Speeder, R-Laser, Scout,0,0,0, CentPsi, -1, 10000000000000000000000000000100
I don't think I've seen this get used much in the real world, because Centauri Psi is pretty far up my tech tree now.  Pretty much late game.  I used to have Cloaking Device a lot earlier in the game, in fact the Aliens got it immediately, because I considered it that useless.  AI obsessions caused me to eschew making it available so early.  Also you can't very well give the Aliens the early ability, and a predefined unit that actually uses it,  because that would typically give away a chassis and weapon prototype.  Which a human player could then reverse engineer, skipping various techs.  That pushed me to making the ability come later.  Maybe now I have it too late and should reevaluate it.

Sneaking unarmored Impact Infantry, and sneaking Recon Rovers, are pretty effective annoyances.

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Drop Pods,              2, MindMac,  Drop,      000000111001, Makes air dropsExtremely powerful in human hands. Maybe even make it more expensive?

Not powerful without orbital insertion, which should be late game anyways.  I don't see a reason to make things a super PITA for players who have already been playing the game for a long time.

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Air Superiority,        1, DocAir,   SAM,       000000001111, Attacks air unitsChanges function of unit into something less flexible. Make free.

It's not "less flexible", it has a different purpose.  You can't use a plain Penetrator to attack an air unit.  Making this a "weapon purpose selection" that costs 0 could be fine though.  I should probably evaluate this.  Especially since I recently added a minimum cost air defense unit:

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Laser Tactical,                     Needlejet, Laser, Scout, 4,0,0, Fossil, -1, 10000000000000000000000000100010

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Deep Pressure Hull,     1, Metal,    Sub,       000000111010, Operates underwaterUseless, free or remove.

It's not useless in a multiplayer game.

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Carrier Deck,           1, Metal,    Carrier,   000101101010, Mobile AirbaseUseless or I don't play big enough maps to justify it, free or remove.

Your personal map preference isn't a reason to remove something from a mod.  Not unless you intend to eliminate other map sizes from your mod, so that people have to play on the size of map you specify.

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AAA Tracking,           1, MilAlg,   AAA,       000010001011, x2 vs. air attacksNeedlejets (and anyone brave enough to play against Copters) are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make Needlejet spam more costly.

I made the Needlejet chassis more costly.  I really don't see Needlejet spam in my games.  I wonder if I made it too expensive.

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Comm Jammer,           -1, Subat,    ECM,       000010111001, +50% vs. fast unitsRover assaults are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make rover spam more costly.

That's what cost=-1 actually means.  However, I don't agree with it.  I made it flat out cost=1, and reduced it to a +25% bonus.

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Empath Song,            2, CentEmp,  Empath,    000010001111, +50% attack vs. PsiOnly useful on the attack, but 2 is probably too expensive for the bonus it gives. Psi attacker already gets an advantage.

Empath Song is way, way too powerful.  +50% is a huge bonus.  I reduced it to +25%.  However I also only have it cost 1.  Its main value is as a weapon selector.  If you have a big expensive gun, but there's a mindworm or spore launcher defender in the stack, it'll make the expensive gun completely useless.  Empath Song makes it so the mindworms and spore launchers don't usually become defenders, so your big gun is actually worth something.  It's similar to R-Laser idea.

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Polymorphic Encryption, 1, Algor,    Secure,    000000111111, x2 cost to subvertDoes anyone use this? Free or remove.

I've given it to the Cyborgs as a free faction ability in one of my versions, can't remember what I'm doing nowadays.  I'm totally unexcited about this ability.  It's clutter and removal would be a reasonable idea.  Don't know if multiplayers feel differently.

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Fungicide Tanks,        1, Fossil,   Fungicidal,000000010111, Clear fungus at double speedLike Super Formers, comes late

Doesn't have to.  You're a modder, you have a choice about this.  Mine come early midgame, and well before Super Formers.  You have to pay for them.  Getting rid of fungal barriers is an actual strategic concern, especially for factions who want to go Capitalist (my Free Market).

and by then forests will be spreading all over fungus.

Not if the player didn't bother to plant forests.  Don't assume your personal play style. 

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High Morale,            1, Integ,    Trained,   000000001111, Gains morale upgradeCould be valuable depending on the faction? Keep a cost.

Get rid of it.  It disrupts the play balance, making it too easy to goose the combat power of a unit, instead of learning techs and training at Command Centers.

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Heavy Artillery,       -7, Poly,     Artillery, 000010001001, BombardsChanges function of unit into something less flexible. Make free.

I do have it as a simple "weapon selector" and additionally, I have it flat out cost 0.  I don't really see the point in making sure artillery is slow and unarmored.

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Clean Reactor,          2, BioEng,   Clean,     000000111111, Requires no supportStill unconvinced this is really that useful unless you have crazy support issues

All stock AI factions have crazy support issues at the beginning of the game, because the cities have no throttle code on their use of SUPPORT.  Left to their own devices, they exhaust SUPPORT quickly.  I make Clean Reactors available at the beginning of the game to save the stock AI from its stupidity.  If you are binary modding, you have better potential solutions available, but you'd have to code them somehow.  My hack actually works.

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Blink Displacer,        1, Matter,   Blink,     000000001111, Bypass base defensesNever really used these, lol. Seems very powerful, probably should be more expensive if only to limit the player.

I "soft retired" it.

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Hypnotic Trance,       -1, Brain,    Trance,    000010111111, +50% defense vs. PsiAI could use these in the early game, and Thinker even gives away the prototype for Trance Scouts. Free?

Please note the cost=-1 designation and its implication.

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Heavy Transport,        1, Disable,  Heavy,     000100100111, +50% transport capacityNah.

I allow them, pretty early in the game.  Sure it's useless for ships.  More useful for Drop Transport land units for orbital insertion combat.

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Nerve Gas Pods,         1, Chemist,  X,         000011001101, Can +50% offense (Atrocity)Only useful on the attack. Powerful but with an economic/ecological cost. Should cost something.

Yes I fairly recently decided it's too good to just have cost=1.  I bumped it to 2.

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Repair Bay,             1, Metal,    Repair,    000100100111, Repairs ground units on boardUseless. Free or remove.

I haven't used them in eons.  Generally too tedious to be arsed with.

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Non-Lethal Methods,     1, Integ,    Police,    000000001001, x2 Police powersMight as well be free since you're probably using a 1-1-1 cop unit, which Thinker even provides.

You're a modder.  You do not have to make unarmored infantry units have trivial giveaway costs with any weapon or ability.  I pulled that off in the stock binary, no coding required.  You pay for things you want.

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Soporific Gas Pods,     1, Bioadap,  Gas,       000001001101, -2 Enemy morale vs. non-nativeI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems really powerful?

soft retired

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Dissociative Wave,      2, CentPsi,  Wave,      000000111111, Fizzles special abilitiesI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational but pretty powerful in the right hands?

soft retired

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Marine Detachment,      1, AdapDoc,  Marine,    000001001010, Capture enemy shipsI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational?

Actually very useful for Pirate home defense.

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Fuel Nanocells,         1, MatComp,  Nanocell,  000000111100, Increased air rangeI don't use SMAX stuff. Just enable antigrav struts for air. +1 net movement seems incredibly weak.

I almost never remember to use this, nor do I care.  Partly this is because my Needlejet chassis is more expensive.  I'm more likely to invade by rails, which is way easier than flying planes around.

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Algorithmic Enhancement,1, NanoMin,  Enhanced,  100000111111, Halves probe team failureI do use this one. Giving it away for free might help the AI use Enhanced probes against the owner of the HSA?

The 1st step is to provide the stock binary with an Algorithmically Enhanced predefined unit.  I've done that.  But, fairly recently, and I'm not sure I've observed the stock binary actually making use of it.  I think if you want to crack the HSA, you should have to pay extra to do that.  Also, it makes the unit more survivable, which is useful against ordinary targets.  I am against units getting automatic buffs just because they got farther along in the tech tree.  I removed all the probe team base morale flag boosts, for instance.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Great. Now we are talking. Let me share my thoughts.
I understand we are discussing vanilla as in other mods facts you are building your conclusions on could be different.

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Super Former,           1, EcoEng2,  Super,     000000010111, Terraform rate doubledSuper Formers come pretty late for their effect to have much of an impact. It's likely most of your terraforming has already been completed. Free.

It comes at the end of terraforming tech chain: Ecological Engineering -> Environmental Economics -> Advanced Ecological Engineering. Each one in this chain brings some advanced terraforming capabilities: condenser, borehole, echelon mirror, raise terrain, soil enricher. These advanced terraforming improvement are quite expensive. To the level that I always start experiencing shortage of my former fleet when I discover and start constructing them. Super former comes at exactly right time. It is not much needed before Ecological Engineering but need starts growing and reaches the peak demand at Advanced Ecological Engineering. Assuming average advanced terraforming takes 15-20 turns it'll take somewhere 100+ turns to just cover 10 base tiles with advanced improvement with two regular formers. This is too long and it is much much longer than the time between Ecological Engineering and Advanced Ecological Engineering. Besides, there is endless war that requires to restore destroyed improvements around your bases then around captured bases then to build tubes all the way, etc. I don't quite understand why you state all terraforming has already been completed? Did it actually happened in your games all the time?

Everything above actually demands immediate former fleet upgrade to super formers. Moreover it saves on support. So there is no question whether to build or not to build it. It is always to build. That how useful it is. From that point of view - yes, it makes sense to make it free as everybody will be using it anyway. I guess increase in price is just a tribute to higher production power at the time.

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AAA Tracking,           1, MilAlg,   AAA,       000010001011, x2 vs. air attacksNeedlejets (and anyone brave enough to play against Copters) are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make Needlejet spam more costly.

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Comm Jammer,           -1, Subat,    ECM,       000010111001, +50% vs. fast unitsRover assaults are very powerful. Make free, at least to defenders, to make rover spam more costly.

Contrary to say such no brainer as super former, this one is a choice player has to make: use it facing large number of opponent air units or not, otherwise. Therefore, it should cost something to support this choice. Should make unit more economically effective against air units but less against others. Vanilla actually follows this guideline pretty nicely pricing such abilities at 25-50% of their effect.

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Polymorphic Encryption, 1, Algor,    Secure,    000000111111, x2 cost to subvertDoes anyone use this? Free or remove.

It doubles cost of subversion in the field. Not too much of a benefit for the cost since AI does not subvert units too often but it should.
It grants another more beneficial positive effect. The cost of mind control grows tremendously with many units in the base when some of them PE!

WTP makes it even more pronounced.

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Clean Reactor,          2, BioEng,   Clean,     000000111111, Requires no supportStill unconvinced this is really that useful unless you have crazy support issues or no minerals. I'd like to see actual calculations.

Why not draft these calculation yourself instead of waiting for someone else? This way you can prove it to yourself one way or another.

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Dissociative Wave,      2, CentPsi,  Wave,      000000111111, Fizzles special abilitiesI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational but pretty powerful in the right hands?

Counter-ability ability. Fun on paper but nobody cared teaching AI this.

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Marine Detachment,      1, AdapDoc,  Marine,    000001001010, Capture enemy shipsI don't use SMAX stuff. Seems gimmicky and situational?

bvanavery has opinion about it.

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Algorithmic Enhancement,1, NanoMin,  Enhanced,  100000111111, Halves probe team failureI do use this one. Giving it away for free might help the AI use Enhanced probes against the owner of the HSA?

Another of must-have stuff. May as well be free as everybody would use it regardless of the price anyway.

[bvanevery]

If a land unit has Air Superiority, and thereby gets named a "SAM" unit, does it have inferior land-to-land combat capability?  If it's inferior, then Air Superiority can be viewed as simply "weapon mode selection" and 0 cost is justified.  But if the land unit gets to have a big bonus against air and their land function is unharmed, then I think this should have the "costs extra on land" designation.

Anyone know the answer off the top of their head?  I haven't actually fought a land battle with "SAM" units in ages.

[bvanevery]

Another of must-have stuff. May as well be free as everybody would use it regardless of the price anyway.

That invalidates half the value of the Nethack Terminus.

I'm opposed to giving lotsa automatic upgrades just because you got to somewhere in the tech tree.  Factions steal techs all the time.  It shouldn't always be enough just to acquire tech.  You should have to build stuff.  Tech advantage and production advantage are distinct decisions.

[Alpha Centauri Bear]

Another of must-have stuff. May as well be free as everybody would use it regardless of the price anyway.

That invalidates half the value of the Nethack Terminus.

I'm opposed to giving lotsa automatic upgrades just because you got to somewhere in the tech tree.  Factions steal techs all the time.  It shouldn't always be enough just to acquire tech.  You should have to build stuff.  Tech advantage and production advantage are distinct decisions.

You are right but it is pretty damn difficult to justify the choice between then. I doubt even human can do that.