Reimagined Original Factions

[bvanevery]

I thought it used to, once upon a time.  I haven't seen it work in forever.

[EmpathCrawler]

Anyone find that the drones REVOLT ability never works? I may give them COMMFREQ instead. Can see it fitting into the lore, they revolted from whatever faction you have contact with.

I got some bad news for you: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Faction.txt_editing_guide#COMMFREQ

[vonbach]

Anyone find that the drones REVOLT ability never works? I may give them COMMFREQ instead. Can see it fitting into the lore, they revolted from whatever faction you have contact with.

It does work apparently but only in very specific circumstances and never against the AI. Its basically a useless ability.
I play the Drones often and I've never seen it trigger once.
I usually just get rid of it and give them something to compensate like getting rid of one point of their research penalty or let them take GREEN economics or both.

[Nexii]

COMMFREQ works on my patch. Maybe Yitzi fixed it or it was fixed in SMAX?

[Nexii]

I'm paring down my factions to have 3 distinctive benefits and 1 meaningful penalty each. 4 and 1-2 is just too much. My issue with the default factions was that often they didn't follow a rule like this meaning some were just way better than others. Have to do some more thinking and rebalancing of course. I think Hive is probably too strong as I have them and Angels need something a little more.

[Nexii]

They seem relatively close. I've noted that Aggressive factions rarely win unless they're on a one continent map. Being flagged aggressive makes a faction build very few facilities. Probably too few once its bases get larger. I'm not sure if I really want an equal split of aggressive, erratic, pacifist factions anymore. It's surprised me how fast pacifist factions can end the game if they get a global trade pact going.

Has anyone played around with a fungus faction before? Gaia had +1 nutrient to fungus but it didn't really help all that much. Until you get Centauri Meditation that's only 2/0/0 in fungus. I've been trying out Cult at +0/+2/+1, which makes fungus like forests. +1 to all resources was much more powerful. It seems to show that nutrients are a more powerful resource than minerals or energy, even with the extra citizens costing drone control. By factors of production (FOP) it was sometimes implied that nutrients, minerals, energy were equal but I'm not so sure.

[bvanevery]

Being flagged aggressive makes a faction build very few facilities. Probably too few once its bases get larger.

Interesting observation.  I'll have to monitor whether it coincides with my underperforming factions.  My Aggressives are the Usurpers, the Spartans, the Cultists, and the Believers.  I was more inclined to blame Conquer, but now I must admit I don't know.  For version 1.43 of my mod I'm experimenting with every faction getting a different research focus combo.

It's surprised me how fast pacifist factions can end the game if they get a global trade pact going.

Pacifists are a threat!  It's why my Pirates are so terrifying.

I think some Aggressives are still needed in the overall faction balance though.  Otherwise Passive factions would always get off scott free with their development BS.  Just because an Aggressive can't win, doesn't mean it isn't contributing to the game.

The Usurpers used to be able to stomp a lot of stuff.  I haven't seen that as much lately.

[Nexii]

Yea I'm trying to understand the tendencies better.

Conquer, pacifist seems to build mostly units whether at war or not.
Build, aggressive seems to build facilities when not at war and mostly units when at war.
Build, pacifist seems to build facilities when not at war and a mix of both when at war.

Discover and Explore seem to have very similar tendencies to Build, but I have to watch them more in test games.

It would seem that it's Conquer that's off. Conquer really should be building more facilities when not at war, even if they are military facilities. But it doesn't. It's much like how the AI still wants lots of MORALE during peace. I may just avoid Conquer flag entirely but I have to test more to be sure. The thing is aggressive factions are almost always at war so there's little time for them to build up.

[Nexii]

This is still on my list of things. An AI with all 4 priorities set will also build facilities when not at war. So it seems that perhaps with 3-4 priorities the "Conquer" starts to get outweighed. At Conquer +1 (such as Conquer/Explore, Conquer/Discover, Conquer/Build), it seems that there is still a very low priority on facilities.

Aggressive AIs do okay on smaller maps and not so well on bigger maps. Bigger maps take too long to traverse, by the time they do a builder has always become much larger. 

I'll probably set all my AIs to either pacifist or erratic. The priorities I'm less sure on still. Having no factions with Conquer priority would be problematic potentially for research priorities. Discover could supplant Conquer, with all the build/research in Build. But for now I'm thinking maybe the more militaristic factions should just get Conquer +2 priorities or Conquer +3 priorities.

Trying out 2 new factions also to replace the aliens. One that's Eudaimonic, and more anti-war than any other. And the other that's Thought Control and more aggressive. They might be a bit similar to Believers and Drones but theres only so many bonuses. At least they have differing aggression level.

I wanted to make a Genejack faction work but it's just a little too much early on, the faction would need a massive downside. A PSI gate faction I thought would be fun but I don't think the AI uses them. I'll have to test that out though to see.

[Nexii]

Drones were very weak when I forced Planned agenda on them. Reason was it took them forever to get Planned economics to really get going. When I let them start with Planetary Networks they were brought back up to average.

Cult was a bit much when I made more early fungus bonuses (not to much surprise). I took away their free mineral in fungus.

Atlanteans might be the best builder faction by a bit over Morgan/University. But they've sort of avoided war every sim game I've watched, I think they should have a tough time fighting a war with that morale. They're probably about right.

Adherents are hard to judge. They've done pretty average so far in sim games. Better production than Drones with the fast rushes and no FM aversion. But that growth is painful, even worse than slow research. They tend to be the lowest for population. A lot like CyCon and Hive in that they want to capture population.

[vonbach]

The Drones seem to be either on or off. In a human players hands they are horrifyingly good. In the AI's hands they are
pathetic.
One thing I've noticed over  the years is any faction with a leaning towards Fundamentalism seems hyper aggressive
regardless of what their aggression is set to. Its like somethings written into the game itself.

[Nexii]

Lol it does seem that way. I think the AI tends to like GROWTH and MORALE during war time. EFFIC more out of war. With Planned forced there's a stronger tendency for Drones to go Fundamentalist than Democratic. -4 RESEARCH is ouch. But when you're at +4 INDUSTRY it kinda evens out. They're pretty fun with Skunkworks even though that facility isn't quite as good as what most factions get. It's Spartan prototypes on drugs.

University is definitely too strong. They don't need the -25% tech cost at all. That combined with +2 RESEARCH equalled +6 RESEARCH equivalent. I think I got into a mindset where University should be OP, running away in tech because they were always OP. I gave them +1 LABS per base instead. Which is great at the start but diminishes more like most factions 2nd/3rd benefits.

The rest I need to test more. Mainly because I played around with their aggression and priorities. Aspirants are probably like Drones, very good in human hands.

Though if you play the factions by RP (i.e. can only pick their agenda), it does change things quite a bit. Atlanteans for example have to wait a long time for a Future Society with how I have it.

[Nexii]

Adherents seem about right for strength so far. Reworked them to have a bit of University's research and Drone's industry. Though not as powerful as either. Minus planet I have to play around with. It seems a mild penalty but going Free Market is a bit scary at -5 planet

Atlanteans were definitely too good with research hospitals. -2 morale hurts but not like how -2 econ slows down believers. Going to try them with aquafarms instead.

CyCon continues to play poorly in AI hands (it always was terrible with conquer/pacifist). Maybe +2 effic just isn't that good? Same with techsteal it's rare to run over a faction with much better tech. I feel like no drones ever should perform better. It could be the AI priorities, no drones is better for builder than conquer. But they feel way more conquer to me. Kinda unsure what else they could get.

The rest seem ok. Cult is a bit hard to judge so far, as are the reworked fungus bonuses I'm trying out.

[Nexii]

Tons of faction rebalances. I'm heading back towards stock factions while trying to keep them balanced. Trying to stick with 3 mostly unique benefits and 1 unique penalty for each faction.

Trying out Data Angels with free HQ at all bases. They were still kind of bad with Elite probes or vastly reduced probe costs. EC interest might also fit them, though it works kind of oddly. I may also try this benefit for CyCon although being able to ignore both EFFIC and POLICE feels very OP

Adherents might be a bit strong. It's a little surprising that -50% tech doesn't slow them as much as I feel it should.

[Geo]

Trying out Data Angels with free HQ at all bases.

Don't.
The consequence is that conquered Angel bases retain the HQ, therefore diminishing Bureaucracy drones from the conquering faction.
In a MP game I participated in back in the day the game master gave this to the AI faction. My fellow conqueror players were pleasantly surprised when they took over AI bases.