minor atrocities and eco-damage?

[bvanevery]

I'm currently in a massive During Action Report where I'm nerve gassing the factions one by one.  I deliberately refused to legalize atrocities, as I wanted people to see the effects of Planet's vengeance.  Planet is so vociferous in its opposition, that as of Mission year 2341 I haven't quite gassed even one faction.  Granted, the faction I chose to gas first, was the leading faction of the game, other than myself.  And they'll be eXterminated in 2 years.  I've learned from past experience to gas factions one at a time, because Planet is so violent that multiple factions will find a way to nuke you in your weakened state.  I'm doing much better this time and could actually prevail, but an important question has arisen:

- how much eco-damage are chemical weapons, nukes, and Obliterations worth?

I'm quite determined to destroy all my enemies with Atrocities.  But I'm in a position to choose which ones I use more frequently at this point.  My reputation is already Infamous and I've got 840-ish years of Sanctions against me.  Planet is already raging because of my chemical transgressions, and it's not really slowing down.  This makes me think, if my chemical attacks are actually the same eco-damage as a nuke, I should be using a nuke.  Also, does the reactor size of the nuke matter?  'Cuz I've got Quantum Planet Busters available now.

There's a formula about eco-damage available, but it only talks about Major Atrocities, not Serious Atrocities (i.e. chemical weapons and Obliterations).

[Petek]

ED due to use of nerve gas was discussed on civgaming.net, but that site no longer is available. What I remembered in 2014 is discussed here. (The last sentence of that post should read

After that, the "clean mineral limit" (see the first link above for the definition of that term) is decreased by 5 for each nerve gas attack (or perhaps for each base obliteration).

For nukes, I think (but am not certain) that ED is the same no matter the reactor level.

[bvanevery]

In my current game I seem to be getting less eco-damage hurling Quantum nukes around.  Granted, I started hurling them later in the game.  Still I suspect they're at least equal in severity.  There doesn't feel like there's anything "less than major" about chemical attacks as far as Planet is concerned.  If they're equal, than a nuke is better, because it destroys a base in 1 hit.  It usually takes multiple chemical attacks to reduce a base.

My jury's out on Obliterations.  I haven't used them frequently enough to be able to tell what their effect is.

[Petek]

I tried to find the CGN threads mentioned in my previous post using the wayback machine. Several years ago a search turned up nothing, but this time it was partially successful. Here's the first page of one of the above links:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140717084010/http://www.civgaming.net:80/forums/showthread.php?t=7392

I couldn't find the subsequent pages right away, but I suspect they are there. Will keep trying. Perhaps you might have more success, if you're interested. I'll also bring to BU's attention since I know he was interested in finding the "lost" CGN pages.

[bvanevery]

Hrm, that really doesn't clarify the role of nerve gas or Obliterations in calculating eco-damage.  I couldn't find page 2 either.

I am puzzled to learn that a Nanoreplicator is supposed to be "health food" for eco-damage.  Of course it simultaneously raises mineral output, so it could be a wash, or just mitigated damage.  And then in a subsequent post, the Nanoreplicator isn't included as an eco-damage reducing facility, so I don't know what the reality is.

I'm also surprised to learn that a Nessus Mining Station provides "clean" minerals.  Although, ground facilities will still turn them into unclean bonus minerals.  Whatever!  Too complicated, especially given the lack of documentation and visualization to the player of such properties.  How would anyone know?

[Petek]

I didn't mean the link to address the nerve gas/obliteration issue, but just to show what I found.

[bvanevery]

I think trial and error is going to provide operative knowledge faster than looking through old archives for exact answers.  I feel another game coming on.

[clovenhoof]

I think trial and error is going to provide operative knowledge faster than looking through old archives for exact answers.  I feel another game coming on.

I think that's the only way to do it.  It has to be something like how other factions respond.  A game I'm playing right now, I conquered Morgan early on, so we were in a pact.  Then I may have inadvertently obliterated an enemy base or two, used gas on an enemy base or ten, and used 25 or so probes to do the virus thing that kills 10,000 people.  Morgan was definitely quicker to renounce the pact and declare vendetta when I obliterated bases than when I attacked with gas or did the virus thing with the probes.

The planet probably responds the same way.

[bvanevery]

I suspect that Obliterations count per 10k people killed!!

Details what do you think of that, Planet

what do you think of that, Planet

My Transport ran home empty, under cover of my Needlejet.

Details WOW!

WOW!

My southern tip city jumped from 9 to 53 eco-damage!!!  Planet not only hates Obliterations, it probably counts how many citizens were killed.  40k citizens = MASSIVE eco-damage.  Data DeCentral similarly jumped to 70.  Many other bases are doing various levels of eco-damage now.  It's widespread but not quite ubiquitous.  I'm in for serious hell next year.

[ih8regin]

I recall the data which stated that past 20 "minor" atrocities that include gassing humans, obliterating base, genetic plague (and I am not sure if nerve stapling counts towards this limit, charter or not) every atrocity counts as "major", decreasing "clean minerals" for your faction by 5. (You may try saving the game, then doing a nerve staple to verify if they affect clean minerals, since your actions have apparently amassed the 20 needed havocs.) Any nuke is automatically a major atrocity.