Author Topic: Difficulty level  (Read 1765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dewbacca

Difficulty level
« on: November 27, 2019, 06:40:08 PM »
Is there any ONE location that discusses the differences between difficulty levels? It's always bothered me that the "hardest" level (transcend) starts you out with 2 colony pods when everyone knows ONE is harder to start the game with.

For the most part since getting a handle on the game mechanics I always played on Transcend and considered different factions to be the way to adjust difficulty level. Gaians, University and Peacekeepers will usually handily defeat the AI factions under my rule, while it's harder to win the standard conquest victories that the limited AI usually devolves the game into with the other factions.

The varieties of ways to play the game are opening up reading this forum, and it has occured to me there are some basic mechanics I may have glossed over in my continued execution of my tried and true strategies to play thru the different maps I have enjoyed.
So tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2019, 08:02:30 PM »
The wiki tends to have things like this.  If it doesn't have it, it probably doesn't exist anywhere and someone would have to write it.

Personally I don't think wanting starting conditions harder than Transcend, is a flaw in Transcend as a specification of difficulty.

Also from a "goosing the AI with mods" standpoint, I wouldn't want the AI starting with only 1 colonist.  The fewer eggs in the basket, the more any bad decision on the AI's part can lead to catastrophic failure of the AI empire in the early game.  It's bad enough with 2 colonists.

I've considered having everyone start with 4 colonists to help the AI out, plus I could remove the differential of the Aliens starting with 3 colonists that way.  However over time, I decided not to act on that idea.  It's contingent upon playtester feedback about what's right or wrong with the game, what is or isn't a problem now.  I don't have enough feedback on the issue to be bothering with something "drastic" like this.  It would be a fairly substantial change in early play mechanics.

In my mod, all factions are supposed to have the same level of viability and capability.  They are not adjustments, there are not supposed to be any easier or harder factions.  If any such skewing arises in practice, I find a way to suppress it.  In my current After Action Report, I have wondered if the Cybernetic Consciousness is my one underperforming faction now.  However since they're currently ahead of me on the opposite side of the map, and their navy trashed my navy in a recent sea skirmish, I think it's a bit premature to regard them as wimps!  I mean hey they're working on a nuke prototype and I don't even have that yet.  And it's proving damn difficult to get all the way across the map to steal from them.

Have you beaten my mod yet?  It should be harder than stock Transcend, although I would hope it's not unfairly, illogically, or abusively so.

Offline Dewbacca

Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2019, 10:28:49 PM »
I have beaten v1.20 with multiple factions, am currently a strong contender in my v1.37 game, just a matter of getting to know the rules.

The growth mod helps the AI grow, it doesn't make them smart.
So tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2019, 10:36:16 PM »
Heh!  Fairly true that.  As of earlier this year, I suppose even "Thinker Mod" didn't make the AI any smarter at combat.  It was smarter at colonization and terraforming though.  Which in the final analysis, is another way to grow.

Offline Dewbacca

Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2019, 04:47:52 PM »
I not only enjoyed your write up on the playtest of the Thinker + Growth v1.37, but agree with your peeve about increasing difficulty thru "AI cheating".

Right now I am thinking the only way to get the AI to be a formidable military opponent is to limit it's production to only the most powerful units. I.E. in my current v1.37 game I had to face down a host of spore launchers from the Gaians, where Mindworms would have wrecked me, the Spore Launchers were just a nuisance.

Growth Mods like yours and Thinker give the AI production capability, but the AI wastes it on artillery and tiny transports. Artillery has a specific function, but I have played entire games never using it. Tiny transports can't get an effective fighting force to new shores, but I have seen entire navies built from them. Your prototyping to induce the AI to build specific units is the most effective tactic I have seen to direct production in a productive direction.

Back to topic, I have found this thru Google:
http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Difficulty

I tried searching for this via that wiki's search function and it did not find it. Google did. A fluke perhaps.

I also found this additional page which goes a bit deeper, not as clean as the AC2 page, but more discussion.
https://alphacentauri.gamepedia.com/Difficulty_levels

This part really gets my attention:
Quote
"It is important to note that the effect of the difficulty level for computer players is inverse to the effect of your own difficulty level. While Citizen is the easiest level for you, it is the hardest level for computer players — costs are low and waiting periods are short for you, while costs are high and waiting periods are long for computer players.

In general, Librarian level is where the two meet — costs, waiting periods and other similar factors tend to be the same for human players and for computer players at that level. "


Somewhere between those two pages most of my questions about difficulty levels have been answered, but oddly enough, no mention of starting colony pods in either.
So tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2019, 03:25:50 AM »
Oddly enough, I found the Difficulty page by typing "difficulty" in the wiki search field.  I was surprised it was that painless for me.  I knew it existed, I just didn't expect to be able to get to it that fast.

In my current game, the Pirates are obsessing about building Clean Transports.  As of MY 2299: 189 active, 0 in production, 41 lost!  Well since we're in the Fusion era now, I suppose 0 in production is good.  I can't say that they've lost the game or anything because of this, as the graph says they're basically tied for most dominant faction of the game.  I can't help but think that production could have been put into something better though.  It's still an improvement over obsessing about plain Transports and having SUPPORT tank.  I've had to remove various Clean combat ships I thought the AI should build, because then the AI just obsessed about those, which was worse than making Clean Transports.  Hmm I might have to reevaluate that though, because they do seem to cost 50 minerals and it would be better to have a cheaper Clean obsession than that.

Excessive mindworm and spore launcher production is annoying.  It seems to be a consequence of making conventional units have a more expensive progression.  It's not completely irrational though.  If I didn't have various boosts to my offensive Psi ability, it would indeed be difficult to get through a pile of indigenous life forms.  I seem to recall some orbital insertion invasions where the pile of indigenous defenders did in fact stymie and seriously weaken me.  I built some very expensive drop units that couldn't hold up to simple mindworm attacks.  Spore Launchers also have surprising anti-missile properties is my memory.  Like if you try to launch a CM at them, you might as well be shooting a dud!  If they're big enough.  Sometimes the AI is only making tiny ones.


Offline bvanevery

  • Emperor of the Tanks
  • Thinker
  • *
  • Posts: 6370
  • €659
  • View Inventory
  • Send /Gift
  • Allows access to AC2's quiz & chess sections for 144 hours from time of use.  You can't do without Leadship  Must. have. caffeine. -Ahhhhh; good.  Premium environmentally-responsible coffee, grown with love and care by Gaian experts.  
  • Planning for the next 20 years of SMACX.
  • AC2 Hall Of Fame AC Text modder Author of at least one AAR
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Difficulty level
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2019, 04:02:28 AM »
Oops posted wrong place.  Since I don't know how to delete this and am using up all kinds of lovely vertical space with my user sidebar, let's post gratuitous artwork that I got from typing "alpha centauri difficulty" into the internet!

I wasn't wrong about him
I wasn't wrong about him

 

* User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


Login with username, password and session length

Select language:

* Community poll

SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
-=-
24 (7%)
XP Compatibility patch
-=-
9 (2%)
Gog version for Windows
-=-
103 (32%)
Scient (unofficial) patch
-=-
40 (12%)
Kyrub's latest patch
-=-
14 (4%)
Yitzi's latest patch
-=-
89 (28%)
AC for Mac
-=-
3 (0%)
AC for Linux
-=-
6 (1%)
Gog version for Mac
-=-
10 (3%)
No patch
-=-
16 (5%)
Total Members Voted: 314
AC2 Wiki Logo
-click pic for wik-

* Random quote

War is war.. destruction is destruction. You think this is obvious. But war is not destruction, it is victory. To achieve victory, simply appear to give your opponent what he wants and he will go away, or join you in your quest for additional power.
~Datatech Sinder Roze 'Information Burns'

* Select your theme

*
Templates: 5: index (default), PortaMx/Mainindex (default), PortaMx/Frames (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 8: init, html_above, body_above, portamx_above, main, portamx_below, body_below, html_below.
Language files: 5: index+Modifications.english (default), TopicRating/.english (default), PortaMx/PortaMx.english (default), OharaYTEmbed.english (default), Aeva.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 50 - 1568KB. (show)
Queries used: 36.

[Show Queries]