Gaians will not choose Green economy

[bvanevery]

I thought it was my modding, and I was pulling my hair out about what "I" had done wrong.  But then in desperation, I went back to the original unmodded game, determined to change things one by one until I found "the problem".  I cranked up an AI vs. AI game and sat around watching it, intending to change the social engineering choices once the Gaians went Green.  I would tweak it until I found the problem.

They never went Green!  They got Centauri Empathy in MY 2171.  I started saving games every 10 years, and they never, ever chose it.  Turns started taking longer, and I've switched to recording every 25 years.  As of MY 2275 they've had the choice for over 100 years and still haven't done it.  In this game on a Huge map, as luck would have it they're the best faction in the game.  Now I can continue to watch this paint dry, and maybe the Gaians will finally choose it someday.  But clearly, if the Gaians aren't choosing their primary compulsion for 100 years, the thing that they get into wars about other factions not choosing, then the game is bugged.

I used a freshly installed GOG game version 2.0.2.23, playing Alien Crossfire.  No editing of alphax.txt or faction.txt whatsoever.  The relevant lines from GAIANS.TXT:

Code: [Select]

  Economics, Green, PLANET
  Economics, Free Market, nil

In my test with the stock game, the Gaians first liked Democratic.  I think they like the +2 GROWTH it gives.  Then eventually they did Democratic and Wealth.  They got in a scrape with someone and then did Democratic and Power.  Now they're doing Fundamentalist and Power, fighting the Spartans and the Morganites I think.  Their economic choice has remained Simple the whole time.

In my mod, I've done some experimenting about what will prevent the Gaians from going Green.  One interesting result is it doesn't matter if you make Democratic all benefits, no penalties, and +2 GROWTH.  Even -1 GROWTH in Green, will prevent them from choosing it.  They don't seem to care about total GROWTH, they only care that Green has -1 GROWTH in it.  The same story is true for -1 SUPPORT.  Yet, they will swallow all kinds of SUPPORT penalties if they're under Democratic.  The original game has -2 SUPPORT in Democratic, for instance.

The Gaians will choose Green with a -1 INDUSTRY penalty.  I'm changing my mod accordingly, but I'm very disappointed that my previous idea of -1 GROWTH -1 SUPPORT won't be accepted by the AI under any circumstances.  I'm just baffled and amazed to find that the original game doesn't accept -2 GROWTH either.

EDIT: ok, I watched paint dry for even longer.  Sometime between MY 2350 and MY 2360, the Gaians finally went Green.  I wonder why?  This is getting on towards 200 years after first being capable of doing it.

The major tech difference between MY 2350 and MY 2360, is the Gaians have researched E7 Centauri Genetics.  They're working on the Pholus Mutagen, are about half done, and need 15 turns to complete it.  They are now Locust capable.  They have 4 built, 12 in production, and 4 lost.  Whereas in MY 2350, they don't have any.

So it seems that the AI code only believes in going Green when it's time to wipe out everybody with Locusts.  They choose it when the life cycle bonuses have pretty much been maxed, or soon will be.

[bvanevery]

I worked on my own mod some more, thinking if I had no penalties for Green, that that would solve the problem.  It doesn't!     To verify, I went back to the original game and changed only 1 thing about it: I removed all penalties for Green.  Then I ran an AI vs. AI test game.  In MY 2172 the Gaians acquire Centauri Empathy.  It's +2 PLANET, +2 EFFIC, no downsides.  Do they choose it?  No!  Here's a screenshot from MY 2173, just in case there was a 1 turn delay on making the decision:

Details Gaians are morons

Gaians are morons

No change as of MY 2200.  And yet, in MY 2201 they suddenly decide to embrace Green.  There isn't an obvious change of circumstance in that 1 year.  The Gaians have a Treaty with everyone but the Usurpers, whom they are at war with.  They acquire Nonlinear Mathematics and High Energy Chemistry.  Is the AI waiting on other tools for going to war, and just doesn't understand that there's no downside to Green?  Or is it timed by Mission Year?  If MY <= 2200, don't go Green?

[Jade Panther]

For what it's worth, I vaguely remember the AI Gaians running Green in games I played years ago, and I vaguely remember that as happening well before the 2300's.

Your second post - heh, that certainly looks like Firaxis coded them to not pick Green before 2201.

[bvanevery]

Possibly game behavior could be different between SMAC and SMACX, or between different official patches.  But barring that, the Gaians went Green when they learned how to make Locusts.

[Nexii]

The AI doesn't love Green but I have seen them pick it now and then. I want to say it may primarily consider how many native life units it has... when I had mind worms and isles super cheaply costed, factions other than Gaians would go Green at times. Penalties might not be a big consideration so much as benefits, back then Green had very steep downsides like -1 to -3 INDUSTRY which the AI seems to care more about than GROWTH

[bvanevery]

I'm ok with my actual workaround for this problem in my mod, and my other SE table workarounds, but they do have a noticeable downside: player perception.  Arranging a SE table so that the AI will or won't pick stuff, tends to create choices that aren't attractive to players and annoy them.  So I spend some time explaining to at least 1 person, how better choices for the AI trumps better choices for the player.  That explanation is almost never satisfying and leads to repeat conversations on the same design topic.  I wouldn't call it a problem exactly, but it's clear to me that hacking the SE table is hardly an ideal solution.