OpenSMACX v0.2.3

[bvanevery]

importing the art assets some way or another would become unavoidable.

Recreating 3D unit art assets from scratch isn't importing them.  If they were sufficiently different from the originals, they would even be free of copyright restriction.

But this is a project for someone motivated to do it.  I myself have serious misgivings about all current forms of 3D unit creation.  It might spur me to finally create a programming language to do it.  Every time I stare at the blank screen of something like Blender, I basically can't stand it.  Maybe Blender 2.80 alleviates that pain, but to this noob, it still looks like screenfuls of junk and some huge learning curve, that I simply have never wanted to do.

[scient]

I've pushed v0.2 changes to git plus a patching script for import/redirects. I've tested the script on the GOG version and latest exe of my unofficial patch without any issue. There will be one regression with using my patch related to FREEPROTO flag and Spartan retooling that I haven't implemented. While reviewing it, I don't remember original justification for change so need to look into it more.

[scient]

Released a new minor version since I noticed a mistake in my patcher script used to create the release exe. Re-implemented the FREEPROTO/Spartans retool strictness via code rather than binary patch.

Also, finished a few map related functions used to determine underlying rockiness, resource bonus and pods. I don't quite fully understand some of the logic but it correctly mirrors the game code. If anyone has an idea what is going on, let me know. Could just be a way to randomize things a little.

https://github.com/b-casey/OpenSMACX/blob/master/src/map.cpp#L489
https://github.com/b-casey/OpenSMACX/blob/master/src/map.cpp#L538
https://github.com/b-casey/OpenSMACX/blob/master/src/map.cpp#L577

[MercantileInterest]

I'm very happy with this project, Scient, largely in the hope of getting more features. Please, keep us updated regularly. I don't really understand it, though. What do we have to learn to actually edit the decompiled code?

There are a few things I'd like to incorporate in my next mod. Will list them here in order to talk about feasibility.


1. Support in excess of social engineering depletes energy rather than minerals.

2. All formers deplete 1 mineral from home base per turn, independently of social engineering. (One of Yitzi's ideas before he disappeared.)

3. Gaians gain +1 nutrient in forest squares.


Again, thanks!

[bvanevery]

3. Gaians gain +1 nutrient in forest squares.

That's seriously overpowered.  In my mod, Tree Farms are the basic midgame method of boosting minerals production, as I don't allow factories, supply crawlers, and thermal boreholes until early late game.  Ergo, I'm rather familiar with the value of the food the Tree Farm gives.  You're proposing to start a faction off with that advantage at the beginning of the game.  The reason that a fungus nutrient advantage isn't a big deal, is because fungus doesn't produce anything else useful for quite some time.  The Gaians' basic advantage is that when other land is compromised, ruined, pillaged, squatted upon, etc., they won't starve.  Whereas, the minerals of forests are incredibly useful to production.

Unless your mod already took minerals away from forests?

While on this sort of subject, removing the Pirates' +1 minerals on ocean shelf squares would be a good idea, replacing it with something else I suppose.  Not sure what.  But their +1 is overpowered.

[MercantileInterest]

My current mod is Binary Dawn--essentially a rebalancing of SMAX intended to keep players from snowballing in MP.

My next mod (still very much in progress) aims to restructure the core experience to feel less like CivII reskinned for space and more like a desperate colony of Earth's finest stranded on a distant and hostile world. Nutrients and minerals will be relatively easy to procure whereas shortage of energy will be the defining struggle of early game. In early human history, populations expanded slowly, limited by disease and primitive farming techniques. The colonists on Chiron, in contrast, will be largely immune to endemic diseases evolved to interact with an entirely different form of life and will access to sufficient supplies through advanced agriculture. As such, bases will grow quickly but the resources required to found new bases with all their complex technical systems and life support will be enormous. My tests so far have made me pretty happy with the colony module costing 25 rows of minerals. However, I've reduced the default number of nutrients per line from 10 to 8 and increased the amount of nutrients granted by a farm to a total of +2. Thus, a farmed rainy tile with a solar collector on low ground gives 4-1-1. Have made a number of other relevant changes as well. By default, base squares don't grant any resources, until boosted by econ, recycling tanks, rivers, etc.

With all of this, you can see how +1 nutrient per forest square fits in quite nicely.

[bvanevery]

So it seems you're interested in serious bigpox.  25 * 10 = 250 minerals for a human player, making a Colonist cost more than an early Secret Project in the stock game.  That might be ok in MP, but if you're expecting the stock AI to handle this, it's suicide.  The AI gets plenty of Colonists killed as is, with much cheaper costs to take the colonization gamble.  Its ability to successfully navigate fungus is really bad.  I've even  contemplated giving all factions 4 colonists to try to cut down on the deaths.  But, my mod makes Clean Reactors available from the beginning of the game, which at least allows superfluous "milling" Colonists not to drag down SUPPORT and cripple the AI players.

You would need a binary patched game with much better colonization AI, for an expensive Colonist to have any chance of working.  Even if an AI has a 50% production offset, it's a 125 mineral Colonist.  Thinker Mod etc. might almost be that, but it surely doesn't assume a 125 mineral Colonist, so YMMV.

[scient]

I'm very happy with this project, Scient, largely in the hope of getting more features. Please, keep us updated regularly. I don't really understand it, though. What do we have to learn to actually edit the decompiled code?

Glad to hear! Me too. Eventually the end goal is to have the source that can be expanded upon. C++, I'm converting it back into the original (albeit updated) language it was coded in.

There are a few things I'd like to incorporate in my next mod. Will list them here in order to talk about feasibility.


1. Support in excess of social engineering depletes energy rather than minerals.

This was easy to find. It's in a function for initializing a base.



You would then change the mineral base value to one of energy related base variables. Not 100% on which from quick look.

2. All formers deplete 1 mineral from home base per turn, independently of social engineering. (One of Yitzi's ideas before he disappeared.)

This would likely be in base_upkeep() or base_support(). It would be easy to determine former's tied to home base and put in some calculation once these are done.

3. Gaians gain +1 nutrient in forest squares.

This would be in crop_yield() which is used to calculate nutrients. There is already logic branch for tree tiles related to Hybrid Forest. So adding in an additional check for specific faction would be easy.


These all sound doable. None of functions mentioned have been decompiled yet but once they are I'd be happy to give you some help in forking the existing project to make mods.

[MercantileInterest]

Hey, thanks, man!

[MercantileInterest]

Another thought: scripting in additional starting units, so factions begin with extra colony pods and free formers. This is currently possible with txt but each unit added in this way takes up limited faction customization slots.

[bvanevery]

I don't agree with free formers.  In fact it's a perfectly viable opening strategy to not obsess about terraforming right away.  I often just scout first and rely on resource specials to flip from size 1 to size 2, chucking out the colony pods I want.  Only worry about terraforming once there's no unoccupied land next to core cities anymore.  This is working particularly well with the Pirates as of late.  I go pop sea colony pods and typically get completions for all kinds of stuff.

Giving everyone 4 colony pods, like I said, I've considered that.  But my mod version 1.40 seems pretty solid, and needs public feedback to be shown otherwise.

There are so many factors when modding!  We can get into an idea of "well I'd like this, and this, and this and this and this," but as we change factors around, what we need changes too.  Everything is interconnected.  One ends up working "the whole canvas".

Most of my factions don't get free starting techs.  I did that to slow down the early tech economy.  What's the point if everyone's got one?  Only exception is the Pirates, they do get Doctrine: Flexibility.  And the Aliens, since you can't take Progenitor Psych or Field Modulation away from them.  I did reassign what they give you.  PrPsych gives Hypnotic Trance.  Field Modulation gives the Cloaking Device, which I think is useless in practice.  AI just cheats and spots your unit.

So a side effect of my tech policy, is my customization slots have a little less pressure on them.

[scient]

Another thought: scripting in additional starting units, so factions begin with extra colony pods and free formers. This is currently possible with txt but each unit added in this way takes up limited faction customization slots.

Design decisions aside, this is doable. There is a setup_game() function that at the end either calls time_warp() for an accelerated games or balance() for a standard game. These in turn call veh_init() to create units. I'll keep in mind to let you know once these are decompiled.

[MercantileInterest]

After asking you to think about this, it occurs to me that making the UNIT feature an unlimited faction bonus would be a much more precise and useful way of doing this.

[MercantileInterest]

I once had the opportunity to observe elite cloaked hovertanks in a multi-player match. You can't imagine the horror such a weapon instills without having seen it with your own eyes. In my last game, I made extensive use of submarines--not nearly so good, since foils stop their move after attacking, but they still gave the ability for my navy to strike at its pleasure rather than on an equal playing field.

As you can see, the multiplayer experience is much different than what you're familiar with. This is what the extra colony pods are about. Modded gameplay tests are fun so far but early gameplay would be somewhat sluggish when played by PBEM over two months. Remember that colony pods cost 70 minerals (this is what a cost of 25 in txt comes out to.) Formers, for their part, can only build farms and roads, with other improvements scattered across early techs. Without good terrain, farms are essential because bases provide 0-0-0 resources as a default. Without the ability to immediately farm, a bad landing zone could cripple a faction.

As a side note, razing a base suggests that each pop equals 10,000 citizens. This means that the Unity carried 160,000 citizens. If that number is reduced to a mere 1,000, the total carrying capacity of the Unity then becomes a much more reasonable 32,000, even with each faction starting with 4 colony pods.

Scient, if you like, I'll stop cluttering up your thread with my reasonings and restrict talk to features.

[bvanevery]

Without good terrain, farms are essential because bases provide 0-0-0 resources as a default.

That's not stock behavior.  Why change it?

Code: [Select]

#RESOURCEINFO
Ocean Square,     1, 0, 0, 0,
Base Square,      2, 1, 1, 0,
I gave the AI Cloaked Recon Rovers and such.  They're annoying but not deadly.  Cloaked units are only a problem if they have weapons big enough to hurt you.  It's not so easy to get ahold of bigger weapons in my mod.  I don't think anyone has tried to play my mod in multiplayer though.  I think there are lots of ways to sneak around.  Cloaking is just another one.