Thinker mod attempt 11

[bvanevery]

Details March Thinker mod development version

March Thinker mod development version

Induktio released a new development version of Thinker mod in March.  I have been testing it in combination with my own SMACX AI Growth mod.  His AI abuses Condensers, Supply Crawlers, and Boreholes to the hilt.  I've been working on various cost increases and technology delays to curb this abuse in the game.  I think I can only curb it, not end it.  I believe he's on a development trajectory where he adds new and better AI capabilities, but never removes the buffs that were given to the "fairly stupid" stock AI.   I view that as a big problem and hope he changes his mind someday.

One can reasonably ask, why am I doing all these tests?  Is it to hurl rocks at Thinker mod?  No, it's to improve my own SMACX AI Growth mod.  Throughout my development, I've had a play style bias.  Certain things, like building Condensers and Boreholes, I simply never do in the game.  Thinker mod has made me aware of just how overpowered certain strategies are when taken to the limit.  Thinker mod isn't the only one that uses these play styles, there are human players who use them as well.  I'm trying to harden my tech tree against such styles.  I think having Condenser, Borehole, and Supply Crawler abuse as the One True Path To Victory, completely ruins the game.

I'm trying to delay these things substantially, so that players have a window of opportunity earlier in the game, to come up with other solutions.  Like sending a plague of Locusts halfway around the world to mess all that stuff up, for instance.  My mod is designed for Huge maps and it takes time to get into logistical contact with far away empires.  I found out last game that even a close empire, can take longer to get into fighting contact with than you might expect.

There is a fundamental dynamic or problem with all 4X TBS games though.  Yes on a map of size X, you can intervene in any given empire and mess it up.  But if there are other empires, and you lack the means to get to all of them, they will grow and entrench.  I call this problem Whack A Mole, after the mechanical arcade game you play at a State Fair.  A bunch of moles pop out of holes, and you have to whack them with a soft mallet every time you see them.  If the map is big enough, you can't whack all the moles!  Some AI is going to grow, entrench, and get a free ride while you're busy somewhere else.  They don't have to worry about defense at all, they are "seeds".  You may "pull the weeds" on one empire, but other empires will grow elsewhere.  The strongest faction is often the one that's farthest away on the map, that you can't easily reach or do anything about.  Particularly if there are obstructions in the way, like alternating oceans and continents, or enemy factions.

When a competent AI faction is given as many buffs as Thinker mod allows, this is a big problem.  It threatens to make a completely unplayable game.  "Play on smaller maps" isn't the answer either, because combat becomes trivial to the point of boring on smaller maps.  Overrunning an AI that you start in close quarters with is easy.  Way too easy: that's why SMACX AI Growth mod recommends playing on Huge maps.  It's designed for it, and if you don't give AIs enough room to spread out and grow competently, they aren't going to challenge you.

Things I am testing this time:

• using stock binary faction placement, not Thinker mod's new version
• Peackeepers in my mod no longer get +2 GROWTH.  No easy pop booming.
• Pirates in my mod get -1 INDUSTRY and -1 SUPPORT to offset their +1 sea minerals.
• Hive gets free Children's Creche at every base.
• Believers get +1 SUPPORT and their FANATIC attack bonus, but MORALE bonus is removed.
• Inherent base defense lowered to +25%, same as the stock game.
• Perimeter Defense available at tech Tier 3, not the beginning of the game.
• Skunkworks available with C3 Applied Physics.
• 2 unit abilities available with C4 Organic Superlubricant.
• Weather Paradigm 1.33X cost, increased to 400 minerals.
• Soil Enricher 0.75X cost.  I've always hated waiting for those to complete.
• Advanced Ecological Engineering is now a Build 5 tech.
  
• Condenser 2X cost and moved to Advanced Ecological Engineering.
• Raise/Lower Terrain 2X cost.
• Industrial Automation is now a Build 6 tech.  It gives Supply Crawlers and Thermal Boreholes.
  
• Supply Crawler on infantry chassis: 80 minerals for Fission reactor, 50 minerals for Fusion reactor.
• Thermal Borehole 2X cost.
• Bio-Engineering is now a Build 6 tech.  It gives Genejack Factories.

In short, this is a fairly serious retooling of the Build portion of the tree.  Minerals won't become plentiful until late midgame at least.

In attempt #10, this approach seemed to be working.  I built the Weather Paradigm, and none of the AI factions built a single Condenser, Borehole, or Supply Crawler.  They still sprawled all over the place and had stronger empires than mine, but they didn't look like unconquerable empires.  Several factions were ahead of me, but not as grossly stomping ahead of me as other test games I've played.  The distribution on the power graph was fairly even the whole game.  I was quite surprised to see, for instance, the Cult of Planet doing "as well as" the Pirates.

[bvanevery]

Huge map, 30%..50% land mass with my large continents and large oceans, average settings.  Transcend difficulty, default Thinker mod cost_factor.  Thinker mod's faction placement algorithm disabled by setting faction_placement=0, as it has been unfair in every test game I've played.

Details research this

research this

The Hive and the Believers shall be in the game and played by AI factions.  I want to test whether my changes to those factions improve their performance.  Otherwise random factions.  I draw the University.  Gaians, Pirates, Peacekeepers, and Data Angels also in the game.

Details what just shrunk my border

what just shrunk my border

MY 2104.  I suddenly see my border drawn right in front of me, way too close to University Base to be my natural radius.  Is this an enemy or a rendering bug?

Details immediate neighbor

immediate neighbor

My 2nd colonist was passing over an energy special.  As a self-defense precaution, I settle the base.  Ordinarily I wouldn't do that, I'd spread out so that my base radii wouldn't overlap.  But in this case, I don't know what I'm dealing with.  If it's a graphics phantom, well then I've been victimized by extra-game hallucination.

Details time for some secular whup ass

time for some secular whup ass

MY 2107.  It's the Believers, and they are not friendly.  I actually changed their personality from Aggressive to Erratic, so it's not a given that they would attack.  So much for blaming the Thinker mod faction placement algorithm for an unfair or cramped start!  Well, I don't actually know what geography I'm dealing with, but it sure looks like I've been 8-balled.  I switch to Conquer research focus.

MY 2108.  The Believers use their recently reinstated +25% Fanatic Attack bonus to blow my Scout away.

MY 2114.  I rush a Transport.  I might need an Artifact to complete a prototype rapidly.  Also it's a safer way to scout the area than tangoing with Believer Scouts.

Details enemy in force

enemy in force

MY 2115.  2 Believer Scouts show up.  I have a serious problem.  Let's try talking, maybe they've calmed down.  Nope, still wants my death.  I rush a Scout for 38 credits.  My Transport pops the sea pod and gains High Energy Chemistry, the basic solution to the Believer Scout problem.  However prototypes are very expensive in my mod and I don't have time before they attack.

I save the game as this might take save scumming to get through.  I'm not much into cheating, but I'm not much into getting handed starts like this either.

[bvanevery]

Details flunked their combat exam

flunked their combat exam

MY 2116.  The AI moved incorrectly for an assault, and I am glad.  Maybe it was in Scout mode pushing back the black, and not in "take over city" mode.  I have 3 Scouts vs. their 1, I can't lose.  I kill their Scout with the one standing on the Monolith and don't take any loss.  I put 1 Scout on the Former that just completed a forest on the minerals deposit.  That base begins a Synthmetal Garrison prototype.  I move the Scout from University Base onto rocks so that I can attack the other Believer Scout wherever it moves.  I rush a Scout at University Base for 16 credits to keep my citizens calm.  My Transport searches the water south of University Base looking for pods and to see the land facing away from the Believers.

Details dead man's chest

dead man's chest

MY 2117.  News of the weird!  It must have been done by indigenous Isles of the Deep.  Who else would gain any naval force so early?

The Believers move incorrectly again, putting their 1 Scout in front of my 2.  I lose 1 and kill with the other.  I'm realizing my Transport is going to need to stay close and perform as a ferry.

[bvanevery]

MY 2119.  I research Doctrine: Mobility.  I change my prototype to a Synthmetal Skirmisher because it doesn't cost any more.  I would rush a Colony Pod now but I don't have quite enough cash.  Should be able to do it next turn.  My Transport will come back into port at that time.  Hey I just figured out the etymology: transport, between ports.

Details coastal lagoon

coastal lagoon

MY 2123.  I settle my 3rd city.  I have this strip of waterway to move upon.  I feel like I have something in common with ancient river dwellers, or the Greeks.

Details better neighbors

better neighbors

Oh good grief.  No sooner settled than I've got someone else breathing down my neck.  Does faction_placement=0 really disable it?  Well this Scout could be walking from somewhere, we'll see.  I sell them the Believer comm frequency to put them more at easy.  We trade techs and sign a Treaty.

Details three's a crowd

three's a crowd

So much for the "walked to get here" theory.  I'm squeezed.

[bvanevery]

Details Believer disposition

Believer disposition

MY 2128.  The Believers come up to my Monolith with a Scout.  I attack it with my Hardened Scout, but I seriously lose.  I hope my Former doesn't get killed.  Good news is my Synthmetal Skirmisher will complete next year, so they're not going to take possession of the Monolith.  Roze sells me a map of Believer territory.  I try to sign a Pact but they're not interested.

MY 2129.  The wounded Believer Scout leaves.  I put my Synthmetal Skirmisher on top of the Monolith and begin building a Command Center.

Details land grab

land grab

MY 2132.  Well I've been given somewhere to go!  I took the precaution of moving my Transport away before popping the pod, as I know this sort of thing can happen.  I am no longer connected to Data DeCentral by water.  I could be if I cleared a fungus patch to bridge the bodies of water, but that's hardly a priority right now.  I rush the Command Center.

[bvanevery]

Details always a problem

always a problem

MY 2135.  The Believers have probe teams.  Should I double up my units in the field?  They went straight towards my base though, and I don't have any teams to defend the base yet.  Nor can I really afford it, I need to colonize and scout.  I think I'll just hope that they walk stupidly up to my base like this one did.  And that they don't put together enough cash to subvert my units close to my capitol.

Details go east

go east

MY 2137.  I settle my 4th city.  I'm a bit of a linear strip civilization, not ideal for JUSTICE.

[bvanevery]

Details Artifacts are for the intelligent

Artifacts are for the intelligent

MY 2138.  This is why you escort your Artifacts.

MY 2140.  I trade techs with Roze.

MY 2145.  The Believers killed one of their Scouts attacking my Hardened Synthmetal Skirmisher in base.  I've got a Sensor Array up as well.  I didn't take any scratch at all, they just died.

MY 2146.  A 2nd Scout knocks my defender down to 50%.  I rotate it to the Monolith for healing and replenish.  Back east, a Datatech probe team interlopes on my road.  I send it home.  Mindworms bother me where I pop a pod.  I will probably lose a Skirmisher.

Details Datatech underbelly

Datatech underbelly

MY 2151.  I sign a Pact with the Data Angels and trade techs.  They won't go to war against the Believers though.  I definitely don't have room, and these factions have outspread me by a factor of 2.  I don't see that I've had any choice about how I've done things though.  Defense was required.

[bvanevery]

Details basically a totally unfair start

basically a totally unfair start

Where the hell did that mindworm come from?  I just walked my Colony Pod back from that fungal barrier east of the city, for 4 turns.  There was no mindworm following me.  It would have used fungal movement and killed me if it had been in the region.  I think I've had the bad luck of a coastal landing this turn.

Details mindworm burst

mindworm burst

I'm sick of this unfair start and cranking up the Scenario Editor to see what happened.  Hm, wasn't a sea landing.  It was surely a pod burst on land, somewhere to the east.  The timing just happened to be perfect for them to walk right behind me, and me to never see them.  They caught up by walking on the fungus.

I see that my initial position was complete garbage.  It would have been even more completely garbage were it not for the kind intervention of the earthquake.  As is, that gave me a barely marginal opportunity to run into many fungal barriers.  I still strongly suspect that Thinker mod has cranked up the fungus somehow.  Every single game seems to have bigger patches than I'd expect.  What's with the Monsoon Jungle, totally useless in fungus?

Details throttled Pirates

throttled Pirates

The Pirates have not spread in any remarkable way, indicating that -1 INDUSTRY -1 SUPPORT is effective at restraining them at the beginning of the game.  Don't know about later.  Don't know whether a human player will find it pleasant to play with either.

Details mediocre Peacekeepers

mediocre Peacekeepers

The Peacekeeper have demonstrated poor colonization skills on an isthmus.  The Ruins might have been a little confusing to settle, but they have perfectly good Rainy land to the west of them, that they simply haven't utilized.

Details Fanatical colonization

Fanatical colonization

The Believers did quite well, more like the sprawling Believers of old.  I wonder if it's all due to +1 SUPPORT, or if reinstating their FANATIC attack bonus made them less timid?

Details Angelic land use

Angelic land use

The Data Angels did fine.

Details Ireland

Ireland

The Gaians got runted on a rather small island.  Thinker mod made much better use of it than the stock binary would have though.  I'd like to know roughly when they got C1 Doctrine: Flexibility.  It's cross-listed as an Explore tech, so shouldn't be difficult for the Gaians to obtain.

Details Gaians with boats

Gaians with boats

Looking at the old saves I had, they obtained it sometime between 2115 and 2130.  In 2130 they hadn't quite finished colonizing their island, at least in the Thinker mod "pack everything in dense" sense.  Notably, none of these bases are working on Transports.  I can give the AI the tech, but it still has to decide to use it.

Details the swarm

the swarm

The Hive is, um, impressive.  20 Children's Creches, so 20 cities.  This buff might be too powerful to be used in conjunction with Thinker mod.  Starting the game with a in-built +2 GROWTH, what could possibly go wrong?

[bvanevery]

Ok, so is Thinker mod to blame for the bad start?  What specifically made it happen?

I do wonder about fungal settings.  I'm not sure if I wonder hard enough to go dig around in Induktio's code to try to find out, but I might.  If there's more fungus than expected, that would cramp and restrict everybody.

Clumpy starts are definitely possible in the stock binary.  I'd like to think that Thinker mod's new faction placement algorithm is disabled, but again I'd have to dig around in the code to be sure.

The more likely explanation, is that Thinker mod causes factions to spread more.  Not so much in the sense of trying to reserve a lot of territory, but in the sense of plopping down a colony, making another one, wet, lather, rinse, repeat, as quickly as possible.  The footprint of a faction may be getting bigger quicker.  If so, then factions collide and get squeezed more easily.

However I don't have proof about any of this.  The stock binary isn't exactly a slouch about grabbing land when a faction has an Explore research focus.  I do call my mod SMACX AI Growth mod for a reason.

Coming up with proof is probably more labor intensive than I'm going to put the effort into.  It's not my goal to perfect the workings of Thinker mod.  I'm more interested in learning things like "well if I give away a Children's Creche in my mod, it will really suck in Thinker mod".  It's easily demonstrated, it doesn't need piles of work to figure out.
 
I think this test game points out that giving a faction an additional advantage, is dangerous in Thinker mod.  It can really up-end the apple cart with a whole lot more faction power than you'd expect.  Some things, Thinker mod really knows how to exploit.  Other things, it doesn't.  Over time, the list of things it can exploit will probably grow.  I can't control that growth, and I definitely won't track it or try to rebalance it.  Induktio drives his mod, I don't.