Thinker mod military capability, attempt 5

[bvanevery]

Details March Thinker mod development version

March Thinker mod development version

Induktio has released a new version of Thinker mod.  I abandoned my previous game as I think it is more important to test the capabilities of the new .exe in a fresh game.  He talks about the following changes:

This update is focused on the build priorities and terraforming:

* Thinker now supports formers based on all triads. Design_units will also create gravship formers when the techs are available.
* Formers will build less roads and try to avoid placing them on forest tiles when they're not needed.
* Other smaller tweaks to former priorities.
* Military unit production priority is now notably increased from previous amounts.
* Whenever AI loses bases to conquest, this also triggers an extra priority to devote nearly all available resources to building new units.
* During peacetime these modifiers will have a much lesser effect, so economy building should still work.
* Small changes to social_ai to prefer priority category models more often. But social priority/opposition effect values (e.g. PLANET) have no effect because of the engine, and are still ignored.

Additionally, this is the 1st version of Thinker mod that ships an alphax.txt along with it.  It makes an important change: cutting global warming in half.  And some minor changes, like changing the world editor settings, redefining what a Large Planet is, allowing anti-gravity struts on air units, a probe team reactor bug fix, removing a *Sea Former asterisk, and various comments.

I would never give up my own world generator settings.  I worked for 2 months on them, before I even started SMACX AI Growth mod.  The AI is already let off scott-free on eco-damage, and I don't believe in solving that problem by making eco-damage easier for everybody.  I'm not interested in nerfing eco-damage for human players.  So, I'm not going to use his alphax.txt at all.  I'm going to use my own SMACX AI Growth mod, as I've been doing for previous test games.

Additionally, I'm working on new terraforming settings for a 1.29 release, designed to end the abuse of Boreholes and Condensers.  These values are not finalized in my own mod, but they're what I'm going to test now.

Code: [Select]

#TERRAIN
Farm,             None,    Kelp Farm,        None,     4,  Cultivate $STR0, f, F
Soil Enricher,    PlaEcon, Soil Enricher,    Disable,  8,  Construct $STR0, f, F
Mine,             None,    Mining Platform,  None,     8,  Construct $STR0, M, M
Solar Collector,  None,    Tidal Harness,    None,     4,  Construct $STR0, S, S
Forest,           None,    ...,              Disable,  4,  Plant $STR0,     F, Shift+F
Road,             None,    Road,             Disable,  1,  Build $STR0,     R, R
Mag Tube,         Magnets, Mag Tube,         Disable,  3,  Build $STR0,     R, R
Bunker,           Disable,  Bunker,           Disable,  5,  Construct $STR0, K, K
Airbase,          DocAir,  Airbase,          Disable,  8, Construct $STR0, ., .
Sensor Array,     None,    Sensor Array,     None,  4,  Construct $STR0, O, O
Fungus,           None,    Sea Fungus,       None,     6,  Remove $STR0,    F, F
Fungus,           CentEmp,  Sea Fungus,       CentEmp,   6,  Plant $STR0,     F, Ctrl+F
Condenser,        EcoEng,  Condenser,        Disable,  24, Construct $STR0, N, N
Echelon Mirror,   EnvEcon,  Echelon Mirror,   Disable,  18, Construct $STR0, E, Shift+E
Thermal Borehole, IndAuto,  Thermal Borehole, Disable,  60, Construct $STR0, B, Shift+B
Aquifer,          EcoEng,  Aquifer,          Disable,  18, Drill to $STR0,  Q, Q
Raise Land,       EcoEng2, Raise Sea Floor,  EnvEcon,  30, Terraform UP,    ], ]]
Lower Land,       EcoEng2, Lower Sea Floor,  EnvEcon,  30, Terraform DOWN,  [, [[
Level Terrain,    None,    Level Terrain,    Disable,  4,  Terraform LEVEL, _, _
Monolith,         Disable, Monolith,         Disable,  8,  Place Monolith,  ?, ?, (this is here for map editor)

Note in particular: 2X Condenser cost, 2.5X Borehole cost, and 2.5X Raise/Lower Land cost.  I have justified all these costs in another thread, analyzing them in terms of resource progressions gained, and only needing 1 worker to gain the benefits in 1 square.  I believe these improvements will still be profitable even at their greater cost, but they will require more judiciousness.  I hope that spamming them, as Thinker mod does, will prove to be counterproductive.  That's what this game will test.

I seriously doubt I'd raise the costs any higher this.  Go too high, and you might as well admit that you really just want something out of the game entirely.  I believe that Boreholes and Condensers are valid game mechanics, they're just way too good of a deal in the stock game.  To the point that someone will write an AI to explicitly exploit them as the best thing you can do in the game.

Per the title, I will also be testing the "new and improved" military capabilities, to see if the AI factions actually put up a challenge when on defense.  Yes the last game kicked the snot out of me on economics, Secret Project building, and tech races, with distant peaceful factions simply going nuts.  But close quarters violent factions were pathetic, with only Scouts as garrisons in late game.  I was limited only by the speed at which I could crank out fusion garrison units.  Which was indeed limited, due to the pressures of those large distant peaceful empires threatening to win the game.

My last game, I had an "ok" start.  Not great land, not terrible.  I do wonder about the fairness and equity of the new faction placement algorithm, and I'll be observing that too.

In terms of improving my play style to combat Thinker mod propensities, the main thing I need to do is spread more at the very beginning.  Once I get my various facilities to build, I like to stop bothering with that and go vertical.  That's not actually an optimal strategy, it's just more pleasant for me as a player.  I don't like having my play style dictated by other factors.  I think I should be in charge of choice in the game and various competing choices should all be viable.  But even given that, there's such a thing as spreading too little.  I'll try to make sure I can't take too much blame for that, as opposed to the AI simply having resource buffs and eco-damage nerfing out the wazoo.

[bvanevery]

Details my Gaians are biological scientists

my Gaians are biological scientists

Huge map, 30%..50% land mass with my large continents and large oceans, average settings.  Transcend difficulty, default Thinker mod cost_factor.  Random factions.  I draw the Gaians.  Morganites, Pirates, Cult of Planet, Cybernetic Consciousness, Free Drones, and Believers are in the game.  I expect the Morganites and the Pirates to utterly dominate the economics of this game.  They are economically fierce in my own mod alone, and under Thinker, they are monsters.

Details mindworms are like owning a dog

mindworms are like owning a dog

MY 2111.  I capture my 1st mindworm.  I would consider this to be a bad start if I weren't the Gaians.  I had a fungal bloom right next to my 2nd city.  I slew the fungal tower that appeared.  I'm Gaian but I don't need that much mindworm activity right next to me!

[bvanevery]

MY 2112.  I capture my 1st spore launcher.

Details let's have the neighbors for dinner

let's have the neighbors for dinner

MY 2116.  I find evidence of another faction near me.  I don't know if it's worth avoiding contact or not.  I want to take advantage of all the Monoliths I just popped.  On the other hand, grabbing all their supply pods with my superior mobility is a valid thing to do as well.

Details wormy neighbors

wormy neighbors

MY 2122.  It's the Cult of Planet.  In my mod they insist on Fundamentalist, not Green.  Theoretically, we can get along.  In practice, with the stock binary I've often observed gratuitous hostility from them.  I don't know what will happen.  They are Obstinate but we signed a Treaty.  Unsurprisingly they don't have any useful tech, as I'm the one with the free Biology Labs.

[bvanevery]

Details it ain't easy bein' Green

it ain't easy bein' Green

MY 2129.  I learn Centauri Empathy, which gives me Trance units and the ability to go Green.  I do so, as I think being able to capture more mindworms will be helpful for dealing with Cha Dawn.  The SUPPORT and GROWTH penalties remind me of the necessity of spreading out as much as I can.  I switch most of my city productions to Trance Scout to get the defensive advantage.  I send the older plain Scouts into the field to die.

Details I am Ruined

I am Ruined

MY 2135.  I discover the Ruins.

Details the runt

the runt

I am doing fine as far as expansion, and Cha Dawn is doing poorly with only 2 observable cities.  I wonder why?  Maybe they got one of their starting colony pods killed.

I may have observed this problem with Cha Dawn in the stock binary as well.  Their research interests are Explore, Conquer.  In the stock binary, Explore is a trigger for greater empire expansion and most of my factions use it to boost their early game spread.  Cha Dawn can turn into a big empire, but he is not doing so this game.  Cha Dawn was also a runt last game, although I think that was less about spread, more about not reaching the level of economics and tech that other factions did.  One of their faction abilities is their RESEARCH will never drop below 0, because they have hands-on experience cutting up mindworms, so going Fundamentalist doesn't hurt them on RESEARCH.  Not relevant right now though.

[bvanevery]

MY 2142.  Cha Dawn sells me Morgan's commlink frequency.  Then we sign a Pact.  I don't think I need to worry about them controlling any land anymore.  I've got 7 cities to their 3, and the superior position for accessing the rest of the continent.  There's also never any value in conquering Cha Dawn, they never produce any Secret Projects or money or stuff you'd generally like to have.  I wonder if they're too weak and I need to buff them with something?

Morgan signs a Treaty.  He sells me Doctrine: Flexibility, a rather surprising thing for me to be missing, considering my Explore focus.  I guess it's Conquer first, Explore second, so that may be why.  Hey I'm doing fine on land.  I'll go capture some Isles now.

Details you won't stay Planet friendly

you won't stay Planet friendly

Morgan has a spore launcher!  I thought he might be sitting on the Manifold Nexus, but surprisingly, he's chosen Green.  He must not have researched Synthetic Fossil Fuels yet to go Capitalist.  Then again, Thinker mod was ruining the faction compulsions before, and probably still is in this version.  You can have things like Morgan being Green but going to war with you because you're not Capitalist.  It's absurd / bad, but until it rises to one of Induktio's priorities some day, it is what it is.  We shall see if Morgan acts like Morgan or something else, a "more generic" faction with broken diplomacy.

[bvanevery]

Details you WILL throw out your plastic bags!

you WILL throw out your plastic bags!

MY 2147.  I learn Biogenetics, which in my mod enables the Police State.  Ever notice that it has a nice quote from Chairman Yang for it?  This is going to bug Cha Dawn but I don't have to care.  If he gives me any problem I will summarily conquer him.

Details better than a Copter

better than a Copter

I gain a Unity Jet from a supply pod.  I'm sending it towards the Cult to scout territory.  I got rid of Copters in my mod because their ability to attack so many times in a row is overpowered.  Instead they're my chassis for Locusts.  When used that way, for some reason they don't get multiple attacks, perhaps because a Psi attack always ends movement.  This allows me to have Locusts, Needlejets, and Gravships all move at different increasing speeds.

Exploiting the air cover of a Gun Jet can be very powerful early in the game, but not as much as you might think, because 1 square can only be covered every other turn.  2 Jets is much more powerful, but even then, only 1 square is covered and only within range of one's bases.

[bvanevery]

Details shut up Morgan

shut up Morgan

MY 2150.  Morgan is Green himself!  This is seriously dumb.  Really.  Induktio, please get rid of this.

Details Thinker hypocrite

Thinker hypocrite

[bvanevery]

Details you're a schizophrenic moron

you're a schizophrenic moron

MY 2153.  Part of me says if it's gonna be a stupid show, I should game it.  I sign a Pact so that when he cancels it, I think his trustworthiness rating will go down.  I also get to see his map.  I don't think he can spread to where I want to be.

Details CEO flaps his jaw

CEO flaps his jaw

This doesn't seem to be the mighty Morgan I'm used to.  I've got him outclassed 7 cities to 5, and I'm only using my inland cities to make Colonists.  It's possible that I haven't started close to Morgan in any recent game, and this is how he always is early on.  In which case, he'll become fierce later.

Details pithy empire

pithy empire

But another possibility is, Thinker mod has done something to Morgan's Explore imperative.  In my mod he's Explore, Build and Cha Dawn is Explore, Conquer.  The Gaians are straight Explore ordinarily.  That's one of the pure foci that actually works, just due to what's in the different parts of the tech tree.  Pure Conquer also works for some factions, such as the Usurpers because they have directed research.  Maybe it works for the Spartans, maybe it doesn't.  That's been debatable in my recent test games.

Another possibility is, Thinker mod doesn't use Explore imperatives, it has its own algorithm.  And it's done something to ruin its own algorithm.  I would have expected at least the Morganites to be up to 12 cities by now, based on previous games.  I'll have to check other games to see where things were really at in 53 turns.

Details previous game MY 2172 - likely center of world power

previous game MY 2172 - likely center of world power

In my previous game with the February development version of Thinker mod, it took until 2158 to even make contact with anybody.  I met Morgan in 2164.  He had a large empire in 2172, and so did the Peacekeepers.  I can't tell how large, but large enough that I marked it as the "likely center of world power".  Despite both factions starting to enter the Monsoon Jungle, neither were jungle driven.  The AI is clearly doing very poorly this game at spreading, compared to last game.  So poorly, that I wonder how much this is going to be worth testing.

[bvanevery]

This is so odd that I'm now sanity checking my installation of the game.  I do remember a mouseclick fumble that caused me to download a much earlier version of the game, but I didn't think I installed it.  Stay tuned.

WinMerge says my terranx_mod.exe is identical to the one in the .zip file.  And my thinker.dll.  And my thinker.ini. 

Of course I am using my alphax.txt, not the one from Thinker mod.  Does Thinker mod turn its code off and revert to stock binary, if it doesn't see its own alphax.txt?

Otherwise, my installation is valid.  I already did "Show Version Number" at the beginning of this thread and it's still the same as that.

Details clearly bad strategy

clearly bad strategy

This doesn't look good.  Nobody should be building a Recreation Commons before they've spread out some and it's really worth going vertical rather than horizontal.

And, the city has run itself out of SUPPORT.  Maybe Thinker mod doesn't realize that going Green in my mod gives you -1 SUPPORT.  However it should in general understand the implications of negative support, as in the stock game, Democratic is -2 SUPPORT.  Also, in the stock game the Morganites themselves start with -1 SUPPORT.  In my mod they do not, everyone starts with 0 SUPPORT.

Saved game attached, but please don't tell me about non-ally factions as I'm still in the middle of this.  Not quite ready to give up on it, but if the AI isn't obviously growing somewhere in 20 turns, I say it's borked.

[bvanevery]

MY 2157.  I acquire comm frequencies for the Believers and the Cyborgs by fishing the Sargasso Sea.  The Believers sign a Treaty and sell me the Free Drones comm frequency. 

Details hey if you really want me to command you

hey if you really want me to command you

The Believers told me the Free Drones had Synthetic Fossil Fuels, which I don't have.  Thinking that the Cyborgs might not have any tech, I contact them next.  Actually they have a lot of tech, different from mine, and we trade a lot.  We trade so much that they give me the ability to make the Command Nexus.  I find that incautious.  I saw similar behavior out of Zhakarov last game.  Also weird is her attitude is Ambivalent.  We sign a Treaty.

The Cyborgs and Free Drones are at war.  The Free Drones sign a Treaty with me.  They sell me Synthetic Fossil Fuels for 125 credits, and the comm frequency for the Pirates.  They sign a Treaty.  They are working on the Weather Paradigm and won't trade or sell tech.

I don't call an election because I have 12 votes to Svensgaard's 49.  The Pirates at least are growing as expected.

[bvanevery]

MY 2158.  At 11 cities I get my 1st Bureaucracy warning.  My net JUSTICE is 0.  Belatedly I remember I'm a Police State and do not need to build Recreation Commons yet.  I start building Children's Creches in my coastal cities.  One interior city begins the Command Nexus.  Other interior cities continue to make Colony Pods.  I've got 3 Artifacts to use on the Command Nexus if I like, but I have to get them to the appropriate city first.

My 2161.  I capture my 1st Isle.  I buy Industrial Base from Morgan, which makes Democratic and Recycling Tanks available.  In my mod Democratic gives you +1 ECONOMY, so it's not crazy.  I'm going to stick with Police State for now though.  Gotta make sure people wrap the plastic can holders around their necks properly!  I start making Recycling Tanks in most cities.  This is a point at which I have a tendency to stop expanding, but I need to remember to keep going for a bit.

Details Free Drones ok empire

Free Drones ok empire

I sold a bunch of comm frequencies to Morgan and he obtained maps for us.  The Free Drones look ok. 

Details landlubbers

landlubbers

So do the Pirates.

Details nerds

nerds

So do the Cyborgs.

Details oh ye of little faith

oh ye of little faith

The Believers are lousy, just like the Morganites and Cult of Planet.  These are the first 3 factions on the graph.  Is there any possibility that some setting for "use Thinker AI for factions" has been turned off for 3 of them?  There's nothing wrong with thinker.ini, it says:

Code: [Select]

; Enable Thinker AI for all computer factions up to this slot number.
; 0 = disable for all, 7 = enable for all
factions_enabled=7

[bvanevery]

MY 2165.  In the course of trading techs, I sign a Pact with the Cyborgs.  I get them to call off their war with the Drones, so that I don't have to get involved.

I try to get Svensgaard to call off his war against Sister Miriam.  He claims she has to be convinced.  I wonder if he's lying?  Miriam has no social compulsions in my mod.  She's the only AI faction with complete free will.  That said, she is Aggressive and has +1 MORALE.  She shouldn't seek to make war with the Pirates, who clearly outclass her, but perhaps she does anyways.

Need a nap in real life.

[bvanevery]

Details all hail the hypocrite

all hail the hypocrite

MY 2169.  As predicted, Morgan ends it.  He's still Green!  I was trying to walk a horde of mindworms north of his territory to explore new lands, but they've all come home now.  I have quite the home guard if he makes any trouble.

I cash 4 Artifacts and 196 credits to rush the rest of the Command Nexus.  Early Secret Projects cost 300 in my mod, and none come before Tech Tier 3.  The Cyborgs originally gave me this tech, and a couple of turns ago finally started working on it.  Perfectly happy to shut them out.

[bvanevery]

MY 2173.  Svensgaard completes the Weather Paradigm.  I trade with him for Ecological Engineering.

Details nice knowin' ya

nice knowin' ya

Cha Dawn blows me off.

MY 2174.  Svensgaard wants to talk to me at sea.  He wants me to attack the Believers, and I refuse.  I also refuse the tech he wants to beg from me, seeing as how he's Unsurpassed and I never give those to anyone anyways.  Then I ask him to call off his war with the Believers.  He does so.  Then I ask him for a Pact.  He asks if I'll attack the Believers, and I say no.  He then signs the Pact.  Yeah AI, get your brain in gear about who you're fighting now.  The Believers are no strategic threat to Svensgaard anyways, it's silly.

[bvanevery]

MY 2189.  I complete the Ascetic Virtues using 2 Artifacts and about 600 cash.  I now have a +3 POLICE rating, giving me doubly effective police.  I'm still trying to remember to expand, but Secret Project races are heating up.  I'm building a lot of Network Nodes.

Details you're stupid enough to be lovable

you're stupid enough to be lovable

What's with these factions giving away techs that still have Secret Projects unbuilt?  I've seen Zhakarov do it, Aki-Zeta5 do it, and Svensgaard do it.  It's like they don't care.  I'm beginning to think this is a change in Thinker mod vs. the stock binary.  I spent a lot of time moving Secret Projects around in my tech tree to provide barriers to the AI trading anything.  For months in my test games, the AI factions wouldn't trade stuff like this.  And now they are.

The only other thing I can think of, is the game thinks I'm poor as dirt and need the help.  That's not so true in this game, although Svensgaard is definitely ahead of me in tech.  Not in all tech, I've gotten things he hasn't, but he has more techs than I do.

MY 2190.  I sign a Pact with the Drones.

Details an expensive condenser

an expensive condenser

Ok, this is my 1st evidence that the AI will build Condensers even when they cost twice as much.  I can't really see Svensgaard's empire to know how many he's got.  I can only poke at individual cities.  I'm starting to realize that a big squarish green bit is a pretty big clue on the map.  He has built at least 5.  2 of them are badly placed right next to each other on a diagonal.  The algorithm is not paying attention to the ongoing area effect of raininess.