Author Topic: Turning SMAX back into strategy game  (Read 30604 times)

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Offline bvanevery

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #255 on: December 22, 2018, 03:38:21 AM »
Here is for some of you versions.

I guess that's demonstrating the "lock step" effect.

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #256 on: December 22, 2018, 04:44:29 AM »
feather fall
feather fall

MY 2369.  Climactic Research is now at 211 meters, not 10 meters, but it is still in danger of sinking.  I guess raising land works, but how well?

Another curious phenomenon is I've seen Pressure Domes be instantly completed in some cities when put in the build queue.  It doesn't consistently happen but I've gotten some free ones that way.  They're not designated in alphax.txt as something that should become free.  I do see that Recycling Tanks are supposed to become free with Advanced Ecological Engineering.  This is true even in the unmodded game.  Maybe it gets confused about whether Recycling Tanks or Pressure Domes are supposed to be free, as the latter does implicitly include the benefit of a Recycling Tank.

MY 2370.  Domai begins the Cloudbase Academy and the Cyborg Factory.  I've been working on the former a lot, and I'm able to rush it this turn, with a lot of credits spent unfortunately.  I don't know if I'll be as successful with the Cyborg Factory.  I've also researched the tech for Clinical Immortality, but as I'm probably ahead of Domai on that, I haven't started it.  It's a race for the Cyborg Factory.  Maybe I can win it, as I do have 4 cities producing Supply Crawlers of various denominations.

MY 2371.  I am 1st to learn Orbital Spaceflight.  Perhaps instead of invasion I should just build a pile of Sky Hydroponics Labs and get big.

MY 2372.  Well I was wrong about that, because Domai just launched a Sky Hydroponics Lab.  Morgan and Domai have also both begun Clinical Immortality.  If I don't even have any tech advantage over anyone, then I'm not sure what to think about how this game is going to go.  I haven't been beat out of all Secret Project races just yet though.

I contact Santiago and she signs a Truce.  Others aren't budging.

I'm beginning to think this mod has mostly rendered me impotent, taking away choices I've usually had to advance my cause.  While at the same time giving away the farm to the AI, due to overpowered INDUSTRY bonuses.  I think the basic theory of operation regarding INDUSTRY is prima facie wrong, that it can be easily set to equivalent numbers of minerals and so forth.  Such reasoning may not take into account an AI that produces city after city, or conquers them, and really isn't limited by penalties such as EFFIC.  The phenomenon of improving city after city is not linear.  Or maybe the dynamic range of INDUSTRY is the problem, especially since factions get the equivalent of a +5 INDUSTRY bonus on Transcend anyways.

Domai's government is currently Democratic Free Market Power None.  That doesn't presently jibe with my overpowered INDUSTRY thesis, as with his faction bonus he nets +0 INDUSTRY.  But he may have done something different in the past.  I haven't paid that much attention to him over time.  Free Market definitely explains why the world is still going to hell in a hand basket though.

1:20 AM, going to bed.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 06:21:26 AM by bvanevery »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #257 on: December 22, 2018, 02:02:59 PM »
MY 2375.  Domai tried to vote himself Supreme Leader.  It failed, but he's got an intimidating number of votes.  I had 99, he had 500 just himself.  If he manages to complete Clinical Immortality I've got a problem.

Land continues to flood.  I've got 3 cities that don't seem to want to stabilize even though I've raised land next to them.  I'm stuck in a treadmill of dealing with sinking.

MY 2376.  Fearing a Domai that has unlimited voting power, I switch production from the Cyborg Factory to Clinical Immortality.  It will complete next turn.  I'm not sure if I can still beat him to the Factory or not.  I'm basically starting over, but my production is pretty good.

MY 2377.  Domai only needs 9 turns to complete the Cyborg Factory.  I research Pre-Sentient Algorithms.  That's not terribly useful because in principle, anyone can make units with Algorithmic Enhancement to waltz right past the HSA defense.  In practice, I wonder if the AI knows to do that?  I'll be finding out if Domai beats me to the Factory.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 02:34:15 PM by bvanevery »

Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #258 on: December 22, 2018, 02:30:17 PM »
Here is for some of you versions.

I guess that's demonstrating the "lock step" effect.

I don't know what is lock step but you definitely have all items concentrated toward later game. You also have armor following weapon exactly. Many people already tested AI cannot penetrate 1:1 armor behind tachyon field. So any AI territorial advance will halt completely in latter game. This is for you to feel out, though.

Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #259 on: December 22, 2018, 02:35:07 PM »
I was fiddling with unit cost models. Neither one is right. I've decided to switch back to original one maybe with some minor additions. This way unit cost will resemble boxed games more. The pinpoint exact cost does not matter that much anyway. People just need to play it out and feel.

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #260 on: December 22, 2018, 02:43:27 PM »
You also have armor following weapon exactly.

That's "lock step effect".

Quote
Many people already tested AI cannot penetrate 1:1 armor behind tachyon field. So any AI territorial advance will halt completely in latter game. This is for you to feel out, though.

I never build tachyon fields anymore.  It's a waste of time because the AI doesn't know how to bring enough units to invade anything by that point in the game.  As far as AIs vs. AIs, nobody's built a single Tachyon Field and they've been available for awhile now.  I think the human player not having the ability to cakewalk the AI when it's on defense, is far more important than contemplating what the AI might do on offense.  Hence my mod favors defense more than the stock game does.

I think I'd be ok with removing Tachyon Field from the game entirely.  A pity to lose the voice acting upon its 1st completion though.  "The Fall of Sparta".



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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #261 on: December 22, 2018, 02:54:03 PM »
MY 2378.  Domai is showing 10 turns to complete the Cyborg Factory, possibly because of some flooding disruption.  My own rate of progress is impressive, I'm 1/3 finished.  I think I can beat him at this!  If he doesn't pull a gazillion supply crawlers out of his ass.

At 40 meters, I chicken out about the land stabilizing on its own, and start building a Pressure Dome in one of my threatened cities.  The others already have Pressure Domes by way of that completion trickery earlier in the game.

MY 2380.  The very expensive Quantum battleship, that took me forever to produce and then sail around my island at a slow 6 squares per turn, is summarily destroyed by a Drone Sealurk.  The Sealurk had a -30% offensive rating due to Free Market.  This proves the complete uselessness of building expensive ships.

I'm about 60% done with the Cyborg Factory.  If I didn't have any crawlers at all, it would complete in 11 turns.  Domai needs 5 turns.

what have I done to deserve this
what have I done to deserve this

MY 2381.  A stack of 8 Locusts appears near my Cyborg Factory city.  The stack threatens 2 cities so I move old peon units into both.  Some may die, a lot will probably live.  None have Trance.  I need 6 turns to complete the Factory.  I'm just short of the cash needed to do it this turn.  Domai needs 4 turns.  I don't have any crawlers completing next turn, just the accident of multi-turn production.  But I believe he can't rush it before I get it, as I will have the cash next turn.  I don't think I need to spend my last Artifact left over from ancient times.

My sinking city finally stabilized at 891 meters.  Altitude is broken somehow.

MY 2382.  1 Locust attacks harmlessly.  3 fly towards Domai's lands.  4 fly south of my lands, threatening different cities.  I move my peons accordingly.  Domai needs 2 turns to complete the Cyborg Factory.  I rush mine with 1028 cash.

unwanted minerals
unwanted minerals

MY 2383.  Finally realized why I'm getting fungal blooms.  I've got an industrial boom, didn't ask for it.  The 4 earlier Locusts that flew south, have moved completely away from my territory.  I think they're heading for a distant Free Drone city to the southeast.  If so, it means that PLANET rating has a huge influence on what the Locusts will do.  I realign my peons for the new threat and hope for the best.

I start to redeploy my peons, when I realize my rail networks have been disrupted yet again.  This is getting old.  I'm not enjoying being forced to play a global warming scenario that I didn't myself create for this long.  I reload my turn and start over, to reconnect rails before I start moving units around.

The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm costs 900 minerals.  That is grossly excessive for something that doesn't even do what it's supposed to at this point in the game.  Anyone can make probe teams with Algorithmic Enhancement by now.  I'm going to build the thing anyways, just to prove a point about how onerous production demands affect gameplay.   I'm not going to build piles of Supply Crawlers anymore, as the HSA is not important enough to go through a huge effort.  Instead I'm finally building some Sky Hydroponics Labs.

Morgan has started work on the Dream Twister.  Might be nice to have and I'm sending an algorithmically enhanced Cruiser Probe Team towards him, but I don't know if it'll make it.

I've realized that although I have Orbital Spaceflight, I can't make a missile.  And thus, no Planet Busters.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 04:29:13 PM by bvanevery »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #262 on: December 22, 2018, 04:41:35 PM »
MY 2384.  I learn Applied Gravitonics and now I can make missiles and the Dream Twister.  I got it from the Planetary Datalinks.  On the same turn I learn Graviton Theory and can now make Gravships.  I notice that the order of the techs in the tree is backwards as far as their names go.  You learn a theory first, then you apply it.  I start to switch from the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm to the Dream Twister, as it is more valuable, cheaper, and being built by others.  Then I realize Domai's previous SP production wasn't disrupted, and he's about to insta-complete the Dream Twister, so I switch it back.

I start on a Conventional Missile prototype.  I hope I'm not about to enter an era of being pestered by CMs.  I might quit the game in that case, calling these runaway production and global warming phenomena an unfun lost cause to play.  I'm supposed to have agency in a game, not just be forced to react and be on the defensive / repair duty all the time.  I have had Flechette Defense capability for a long time, but I haven't built any.

MY 2386.  Domai begins the Space Elevator.  I'm starting to lose the will to compete with him.  I've already done massive, massive Supply Crawler battles to complete Secret Projects, I don't want to do it anymore.  This game is a drag.  If nothing else, it demonstrates a phenomenon I was already aware of.  The University's +2 RESEARCH simply isn't worth much in the real world on Transcend.

I send the 1 Cruiser Probe Team I've got in the region at Domai.  I run into a Pirate ship and spend 278 credits to subvert it, trying to keep my Probe Team alive.  Next turn depends on AI behavior because the Pirates do have a base with a unit that could come kill the Probe Team if he likes.  I guess it wasn't a very good plan and just shows how tired and bored of all of this.  I don't want to have to plan every single goddamn detail anymore, it's 2384 FFS.

A player needs to feel success at regular intervals.  Not just have things be "balanced", which in the real world means the AI gets to exploit its advantages at your expense indefinitely.  The AI has its tricks of how it's supposed to do well in the game. I'm supposed to have mine too.

Domai interlopes with a mindworm and a Spore Launcher, on the eastern rail line that almost touches his land.  I kill the Spore Launcher but barely survive.  My Mature Boil mindworm fails to kill his pre-boil mindworm.  This is because he built the Neural Amplifier in his capitol quite awhile ago.  I had started on it 1st but lacked the productivity to finish it.  I went for the Cloudbase Academy instead.  I did not think much about that SP being strategically important at the time, but it's a little galling that the Free Market -3 PLANET guy is standing up to the +2 PLANET Green guy this way.

I never figured out where the Manifold Nexus was.  I finally just looked for it.  It's in oceanic Drone territory.  It's on a small island, that has sunk so badly that the center of the Nexus doesn't have any artwork right now.  As Domai didn't put a land base on the island, I believe nobody has claim over the Nexus.  Am I orbital insertion capable now?  If so I could have this.  Yes, Graviton Theory is still the tech for orbital insertions.

I've already resolved that I refuse to win this game by Transcending, if I even can.  I think the destruction of human individuality is the most completely depressing fate for everyone that I can imagine.  Why not just convert all of humanity into rocks and trees?  In general I am morally opposed to this ending and would probably only pursue it for tournament victory purposes.  Which isn't the case here.

Hmm, I wonder how many friends I'd make if I got rid of that ending, if I changed the narrative of what happens?  Some people have already howled and complained about me making Miriam not a cartoon cutout, but eh, what does /r/patientgamers know anyways?  They didn't like my mod, only 2 upvotes.  They do allow me to have a "SMAC modder" flair though, so all is not lost.

It's noon.  I'm clearly bored out of my mind, so I'm going to save the game and resume later, before I rage quit.


« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 07:04:28 PM by bvanevery »

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #263 on: December 22, 2018, 09:20:04 PM »
4:15 PM.  I resume the game.  Still feeling negative, but I'm not as immediately pissed off and antsy about this, so my fuse is probably longer.  Evaluating where I was before.  HSA, worthless but in progress.  Wanting the Space Elevator, not happy about wanting to build it in my capitol.  Might be about to fail at the steal.  Ok, got it.  As backup, I change from supply crawler production in my industrial boom city, to untrained algorithmically enhanced Cruiser Probe Team.  That takes 1 turn, so I can immediately try again and spam this if it doesn't work.  Of course, every turn I'm spamming, is a turn I'm not producing a badly needed supply crawler.  But it's the price of theft so whaddya gonna do?

Well I guess I could do an orbital drop probe team, just about anywhere that doesn't have an Aerospace Complex.  I have the Xenoempathy Dome so I could infiltrate through a fungus connection.  Designing a suitable hovertank unit for this purpose.  How am I out of unit designs?  I ditch all the Quantum Laser designs because I'll have Graviton guns soon enough.  Algorithmic Enhancement or Amphibious Pods?  I'm thinking the former for now; latter for Pirates, not the problem.  Maybe I can use these units to sabotage Space Elevator production as well.  I've got -5 PROBE so survival rate is likely low.

I need this Drop team faster, so I switch the industrial boom city to it.  Doing what I gotta.

MY 2387.  I luck out!  The Pirates kill the wounded ship I subverted last turn, not my Cruiser Probe Team.  I proceed to a target somewhat deeper than the front line, so that I'll have followup options available later.  Unfortunately it has an interlock.  Fortunately I prevail and get Temporal Mechanics!  My unit even survived and returned to base, promoted to Veteran.  Well done.  I will begin the Space Elevator next turn in my capitol, after my Conventional Missile prototype completes.

4:50 PM.  Dog wants to go for a walk, so this drama will continue later.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 09:48:52 PM by bvanevery »

Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #264 on: December 22, 2018, 09:51:30 PM »
A player needs to feel success at regular intervals.  Not just have things be "balanced", which in the real world means the AI gets to exploit its advantages at your expense indefinitely.  The AI has its tricks of how it's supposed to do well in the game. I'm supposed to have mine too.

Regardless of your intentions and attitude toward it I appreciate you are spending so much time on it. Thank you for it. You are playing it even more than I do.
:)

Different people like different games. There is no judgment for the game preference as it is a fantasy and everybody is entitled on their own. Some people actually like to fell success at a regular intervals. Those play slot machines. Some like to challenge their mind. These compete in two-or-more multiplier games. So my mod definitely won't satisfy everybody. Only people like me.

I don't understand why are you so frustrated about balancing games. Aren't you working on some kind of a balance in your mod yourself? I guess the question is not about balance and advantages but about ease. My mod on top of Induktio makes it really difficult to win. Sort of next few level beyond Transcend. So if you feel it difficult - try switching to lower level. That'll make it easier and probably more enjoyable to you. This is not a joke I am serious. You may even win faster this way.

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #265 on: December 23, 2018, 01:37:22 AM »
Regardless of your intentions and attitude toward it I appreciate you are spending so much time on it. Thank you for it.

No prob.  Although after this game, I swear I'm going to get back to my own work.

Quote
You are playing it even more than I do. :)

In all seriousness that might imply something.

Quote
I don't understand why are you so frustrated about balancing games. Aren't you working on some kind of a balance in your mod yourself?

I think authorship of a game, is in the writing.  If you have "sentences that are not good", metaphorically speaking, then that is something I notice and make comments on.  Sentences are a matter of taste, but, in writing there is also craft.  What the craft of game design is, is also a matter of taste.

I have my tastes, I write as I write, and evaluate as I evaluate.  I do not think all game designs and game designers are equal.  I think some approaches, and some game designers, are decidedly inferior at their work.  I'm prepared to back up any assertions I make about such, whether something is more in the realm of taste and opinion, or whether someone is doing a basically boring lazy bad job.  I don't subscribe to the idea, that "everything is ok".  I do recognize, however, that demographics are sufficiently large nowadays, that one can find a target audience for many reeking, stinking piles of @#$.  Not all though.  I take some comfort in that.  I wonder where the line gets drawn, as to "completely unsellable".

I do not like the game industry.  I think they do most things wrong, and SMAC is currently the only title I'm playing.  The only title I want is Six Ages, but they haven't coughed up a PC version yet.

Quote
My mod on top of Induktio makes it really difficult to win.

I have no opinion on Induktio's .exe patching as I have not played it, other than a very early version before sparks started flying between us.  It had serious flaws back then, although that was not the nature of disagreement between us.  It wasn't ready to be called a proper game back then; I doubt even he would have.  Our fight was over the boundary between his work and that of other modders, like me.  I don't even know what his position is on that now, or what he's doing in practice.

I imagine he's done a lot of work since the early days, and the quality of his AI work is surely higher by now.  But I'm not interested in giving him the testing resources.  I mean, I've put in a few days of work here to test your stuff, I'm not going to do that for just anybody.  There are mountains of game devs out on Reddit who would just love if I gave their work that level of attention, that kind of testing and feedback.  Ain't gonna happen, I'd never get anything done.  All indie devs are in that same boat, where the hell to get real testing resources.  I judged the Independent Games Festival for 6 years, back in the day.  That's a kind of pretty serious testing resources.  Sorta.  Pissed off some game developers when I told them what I really thought.  I might have caused developer <--> judge interactions to get muzzled, which is a pity as far as useful feedback is concerned.

My own next priority is to get on with making a commercial game somehow.  I gotta keep my eye on that prize, and not get bogged down on testing that doesn't actually matter to me.  I know I can write a better 4X game from scratch, than anybody's gonna patch SMAC to be.  I can directly address problems we've all observed over the years, and I can game design various problems out of existence to begin with.

Quote
Sort of next few level beyond Transcend. So if you feel it difficult - try switching to lower level.

Heracy!  Into the Punishment Sphere with you.  Seriously, if you've modded things to be unwinnable on Transcend, your design is a failure.  I don't believe in "monster" factions either, that some people seem to enjoy the "challenge" of.  A stupid AI that is given piles more resources than you are, is still a stupid AI.  Not worth spending brain cells dealing with IMO.  I've seen "stupid AI, infinite resources" play out in countless other games.  It's not worth the time.

The most objectionable thing I've experienced in my current game, is not actual fighting of the Drones.  There hasn't been any.  What I object to, is the way they have precipitated continuous global flooding.  I don't get to do anything about this, I only get to react.  Tools in the game that did give me an ability to react, like Launch Solar Shade, you took away from me.  That's not cool, if I'm forced to play something that I didn't ask for.  It's not like I used chemical weapons on everyone willy nilly, or dropped nukes, or built bloated factories poisoning Planet.  I did none of those things.  Suffering the consequences those things is not much fun, but at least if I had done them, they'd be my consequences.  Instead, this has turned into "the Domai game", aka flooding without end.  It's a tedious task I don't want to do anymore, I've had enough.

The only thing I can say positive about it, is it's hardly the worst flooding I've seen.  I've done much worse to myself.  But this is still something I can't get away from.  And this -2 RESEARCH [jerk, sphincter] is still out-researching the University.  Something is wrong with the design here.  Maybe it is the simple failure to account for the advantages that Transcend gives in the 1st place.  Although, Domai pulling tech out of his ass, is a problem that very much predates either your or my modding.

In my mod, no faction gets a +2 INDUSTRY bonus.  I suspect it is overpowered.  Domai gets +1, nobody else gets anything.

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #266 on: December 23, 2018, 02:48:54 AM »
9:30 PM.  The struggle resumes.

MY 2388.  Mindworms show up at my industrial boom city again.  I blast a big stack of them with artillery killing them all, due to their Spore Launcher dying.  I accidentally move my new Drop Hovertank Probe Team unit, not realizing what it is, and waste its turn for dropping somewhere else on Planet.  I kill the last land mindworm with a Speeder and get back to base.  I shell an Isle into oblivion.  Only a single Locust remains as far as I see, and that's not a threat.  I think this made me a lot of money, as I now have 1115 credits.  That said, I'm making 137 credits/turn now, so it may not be entirely responsible for my wealth.

I complete a Conventional Missile prototype.  A passing Drone ship seems interested in landing on my shores next turn, so I blow it up.  Except, as I'm trying to move north from my capitol, I hit an undetected Pirate Sealurk!  Well, damn.  I certainly have the forces to repel any ground invasion, but I haven't made any units lately to take a mere Transport out.  Frankly this is the 1st one I've seen, whole game.  It's carrying some armor 6 and armor 8 units, this is not a current tech deposition.  I put a Cruiser Probe Team in front of one my cities, so that the Marine on the Transport cannot directly attack it.  They'll have to land on some fungus, and then I'll trivially wipe them out with mindworms.

I rush a Pressure Dome in my capitol.  Delays, delays, delays.  Domai only needs 10 turns to complete the Space Elevator.  However he's building it at U.N. Headquarters, which is seaside facing me.  It's actually pretty easy to get a Cruiser Probe Team over there, if nobody is patrolling.  Succeeding specifically at taking out the project in production, is another matter.  I need more teams, quick.  However I'd like them not to suck.  This turn I will build a Naval Yard.  Not exactly a crime to have something sea facing over here.

I make 4 energy from fungus squares now.  Not sure what I discovered that allowed that, but I'll take it.  Fungal pops definitely don't hurt me.

MY 2389.  Domai begins the Singularity Inductor, making me think this tech tree progression is pretty much broken.  I suppose he'll Transcend soon?  Things are still sinking, rivers are still flooding, forests that I just put down got wiped out by rivers again.  It's a drag.  Some cities somewhere else completely sank this year.  It's a serious flooding apocalypse, even if it's far from the worst I've seen in a game.  This game has been all about the Domai and not about me.

The Naval Yard was !@#$ supposed to take 1 turn to build, but because of !#$#! flooding, it's 2 minerals shy of completion.  So my probe team response is delayed yet again.  Pissing and moaning about this, does remind me that I did make a drop probe team before though, and that I put it on Hold last turn.  I think I need something to eat, I'm not thinking straight.  [break]  A few bites of lasagna later...

pretty sneaky sis
pretty sneaky sis

I drop my team in the middle of a dead zone in Domai's empire.  A leftover from when he took over most of the Peacekeepers.  I hope he isn't flying any planes around.  I bet the risk of running into ground troops is pretty minimal.

You know, if he completes this Singularity Inductor, the flooding is going to get worse all over again.  It's supposed to mitigate the eco-damage, but I think in the real world, it creates far more pollution than it cleans up.

I'm realizing that if the AI had any brains, several factions could have drop podded all over me.  Minus my Aerospace Complex defenses, of course.  Fortunately the AI is brainless.

dont drown me bro
dont drown me bro

MY 2390.  I realize I only have 13 Super Formers now.  I used to have 20.  I think I must have lost some of them to the "flooded river plain" bug.  This is when a river plain cannot have any terrain improvements put on it during a flood, and it also kills any units that end their turn on the river.  I'm taking a screenshot to see if anyone dies next turn.

I research Centauri Genetics, making the Pholus Mutagen available at last.  At first, I switch from the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm to that.  Then I see it's going to be such a severe waste of previous production, that I just can't conscience it.  I switch to the Space Elevator, accepting this isn't going to get built in my capitol, that I don't have the luxury of that kind of time.  Not unless the probe teams manage to do some good work.  I'm still trying to get a Covert Ops Center done, so I just don't think intervention is going to happen.

My drop probe team was not discovered.  It even healed, which must be from the Nano Factory.  5 turns until the Space Elevator.  The city has piles of facilities and is fairly happy, with 4 Transcendi and 2 Drones.  With all the yuppies in this city, I don't see Drone Riots doing any good.  Domai's government is Democratic Free Market only, so no PROBE bonuses.  Domai's credit reserve is massive, 1963 credits.  Mine isn't shabby, 1427.  The city is size 16 and it's 14 squares from his capitol.

Can I buy this city?  Can I buy it if I change my government to something more probe team aggressive?  Unfortunately with my faction's -2 PROBE penalty, and inability to go Fundamentalist, the best I can muster with Thought Control is -1 PROBE.  Well, that might not actually matter, I don't think that's a term in the cost equation.  It's Domai's PROBE rating that matters not mine.  Instead of trying to figure it out, let's just walk up to the base, save the game, try the action, and see what it would cost.  3544 credits.  Figured.

I attack the Space Elevator specifically with a 75% chance of success, and remarkably, take it out!  Surprisingly, the team survives and is promoted to Veteran.  Ok, now I can build the thing in my capitol.  I guess I'll just keep building the HSA where it is, as I don't want to waste all that production.  I'll start the Pholus Mutagen elsewhere.  It's a cheap project by the standards of this late stage of the game.

I've got 2 Cruiser Probe Teams in the water, and have ended my turn with Domai's Isles near both of them.  Might be kissing that fleet goodbye.  Stealing Domai's tech may fall to the drop team.  I rush the Covert Ops Center as I'm going to need more teams.  The industrial boom is over, but it's still a high production city.


« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 03:56:47 AM by bvanevery »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #267 on: December 23, 2018, 04:25:23 AM »
MY 2391.  Surprisingly, a hidden Pirate Sealurk attacks one of my Cruiser Probe Teams, and barely scratches it.  Domai's Isles don't try to attack at all.  My ships proceed to targets.  Stealing the tech isn't going to be a big deal.  I have completed a Naval Yard and a Covert Ops Center in the same city.  I'm going to put a Command Center in there for good measure, as I may want more drop teams.  I'd like to end Domai's ability to make Secret Projects.  I'm finding the water in general is heavily patrolled by Domai, and one of my Cruiser teams is running afoul of yet another ship.

I'm thinking it's not time to disrupt another Secret Project yet.  How about stealing credits?  Morgan is rich!  We're still at war and he's still ignoring my transmissions.  Problem is, Morgan Industries is a waterworld now.  I'd need a Drop Marine team, which I don't have, and a way to protect it from aircraft.  Assuming an Aerospace Complex isn't covering his capitol... mercifully, he has none.  Hasn't been doing anywhere near as well as Domai, the graph says he's no stronger than I am.  And frankly, the graph is lying.  I'm in a way better position than he is, with many Secret Projects, and actual land with substantial bases.  He's a wreck!

A Stasis Drop Transport is not cheap, and I don't have a prototype of that armor yet.  My capitol with the Skunkworks is busy with the Space Elevator.  I'm building a Stasis Coastal in another city just to get it up and running, but it will take 5 turns.  A Drop Transport is also a one way trip, by itself.  It would take a Drop Former building an airbase to get back into orbit.  What does that cost?  I'm running out of unit designs yet again.  Well, they're still vulnerable, I need an AAA unit.  AAA is unpleasantly expensive in this mod, it costs 2 and is only +50%.  Antimatter drop?  The math on producing this stuff isn't adding up.  For the same expenditures, I think I'm better off just making Supply Crawlers to build my SPs faster.

We shall try stealing money from Domai's capitol, using the existing Drop unit.  The good thing about Drop probe teams, is if they live through the experience, they find their own way home.

MY 2392.  Lal lamely declares war on me.  As if he can do anything with Domai having all but destroyed him.  The land link to his backyard doesn't even exist anymore.  I meet Santiago at sea and she lamely declares war on me as well.  If her Sealurk is as bad as others she won't be a threat though.

I steal the Singularity Inductor tech.  Boy I thought some of these other projects were expensive, that one is 1800!  That's double the useless HSA.  Think I'll let Domai rock on with that one for awhile, then terminate it.

Domai does send a slow infantry unit to check out my Drop team, but he doesn't attack.  His bad.  I steal... 24 credits???  I've been ripped off!  Ok, somehow he spent some money, he's only got 794 credits now.  But that's still too low.  Well, my team survived and is now Commando.  Is it possible that my -6 PROBE rating, actually triggers a bug that makes my success more likely?  I'm going to build more of these Drop probes as they seem to be doing the job.

In all this time, I've never made units with Non-Lethal Methods.  I've not tried to pop boom either.  Felt too under the gun the whole time.  What if it was a strategic mistake, and the whole game would have been different if I just paid the painful price of pop booming in this mod?  Hard to say, but no question I've been deterred.

MY 2393.  Morgan and Domai both start the HSA.  I haven't saved it up this long to let them have it.  I send a Supply 99 over there and that goose is cooked.

I wonder how much money I can get out of a large but distant Morganite city?  Let's find out, nothing better to do.  I steal... 134 credits and my Cruiser team survives.  That's ok.  Not really worth the mouseclicks to sail all the way there, but I was in the 'hood.

Rivers change course again, forests are gone again, and this time I know I lost 7 Formers somehow.  <SIGH>  Yes, I'm serious Tim, this forced global warming stuff is tedious.  This doesn't feel like a wargame, it feels like a marginal survival game.

I begin a campaign of general sabotage in Domai's Secret Project Cities.  I lose a Drop team.  More will come!  I actually have enough money to buy the Space Elevator this turn, so I do it.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 05:04:40 AM by bvanevery »

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Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #268 on: December 23, 2018, 05:36:15 AM »
MY 2396.  I research Matter Transmission, which makes Psi Gates, the Bulk Matter Transmitter, and Blink Displacer available.  The latter would actually be useful for cutting open Domai's cities.  The BMT would be extremely dangerous, it would start even worse flooding than what I'm already getting.  Psi Gates aren't that important right now, might be later if I drop into Domai's empire.  I also get +1 Mineral in fungus squares, making them pretty good.  I forgot all about my plan to take over the Manifold Nexus, too many distractions earlier in the day.  Perhaps the time is now.

MY 2397.  Domai has started wandering around all sorts of units in that interior hole I was using to land my probe teams.  They killed one unit outright.  Another unit could not get to the capitol and had to take pot luck in a small city somewhere else.  Domai is only 3 turns away from completing the Singularity Inductor.  So I guess flooding is not going to end.  I don't have any control over him.

I've started to build Stasis Drop Transports for an orbital invasion.  I will need a lot of units so I can build an Airbase to get in and out of orbit.  I also completed the Pholus Mutagen, which should give me some pretty deadly indigenous life.  Oh yeah, keep forgetting the Manifold Nexus.  I'm building Trance Sea Formers to make my water worth more.

I'm tired.  I'm bagging it for today.  12:30 AM.



Re: Turning SMAX back into strategy game
« Reply #269 on: December 23, 2018, 11:56:24 AM »
Quote
Sort of next few level beyond Transcend. So if you feel it difficult - try switching to lower level.
Heracy!  Into the Punishment Sphere with you.  Seriously, if you've modded things to be unwinnable on Transcend, your design is a failure.

I didn't say it is unwinnable. It is hard to the level where you call it a drag and constant thinking every turn. This is not unwinnable like Civ 3 on Deity.

 

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