Author Topic: SMACX AI Growth mod  (Read 174220 times)

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Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #660 on: July 01, 2019, 06:08:49 AM »
the motive for genocide
the motive for genocide

I started a new game with random factions.  I drew the Free Drones.  I saw the Garland Crater near my starting position and started heading for it, only to find that the Usurpers had planted their flag there!  Frustrated, I started settling in the opposite direction away from them.  I switched from the default of Explore, Build to Conquer only, hoping to get chemical weapons ASAP.  Well to be honest that took some time.

Once I got it, I started making a new kind of unit, one that I've never made before.  The X Scout Infantry.  It costs just as much as a regular Scout; that's pretty much the thing with Scouts, you can get 1 essentially free ability with them.  I have been trying to garrison my cities with X Scouts ever since, while simultaneously trying to expand, fight off mindworms, and gain more needed techs.  I have all of the combat techs I need now, if I were to make an X Scout based assault.  But I still don't have enough stuff produced, like prototyping Synthmetal armor yet.  Or Speeders.

I don't have C3 Applied Physics.  I might get it soon, but it usually takes awhile, and I was never planning to wait for it to make an assault.  I figured with enough X Scouts, I could depopulate Marr's cities and wipe him out.  And frankly, it would be better than he's got!  I'm assuming that an X Scout attacks with an effective strength of 2 when chemical weapons are used.  I haven't actually tried it in the field yet.  Surprisingly, Marr hasn't said a thing to me.  Usually he's summarily declared war by now.

the vote of death
the vote of death

MY 2160.  There are only 5 human factions in the game and I've met them all.  2 are allied with me and 2 are at war.  I do not have the votes to win the Governorship.  That would easily go to my enemy, Svensgaard.  I figured this is as good a time as I'm going to get to try to get chemical weapons legalized, since nobody can veto it.  Alternately if I was Governor, then nobody could veto me, but that looks like it'll be awhile yet.  Probably not until after I've defeated the Usurpers.

Morgan is my ally and might listen to me.  If I have to bribe him, maybe his price is something I can afford.  If he switches, then I have pulled this off!

cheap chemical fillers
cheap chemical fillers

Hot diggety!  Barring negative number bugs, this has to be the cheapest bribe in all of SMACdom. All your chemicals are belong to us.  Now, can I turn this into an unusually short game?

surprisingly effective artillery fire
surprisingly effective artillery fire

MY 2194.  I still haven't got Applied Physics and Lasers.  As far as I know, no one has it.  I never went to war with the Usurpers because they offered a Treaty when I finally met them.  It wasn't MY 2200 yet and even if I did wipe them out, they'd just restart somewhere else.  Why bother?  I can dispose of them later.

Instead I've been prosecuting a chemical war against Svensgaard.  I started with 1X-2-4 ships, which weren't very good at sea fighting.  In a pea shooter war, it's actually better to let the other guy attack you and die on your armor.  I lost all those ships and got majorly shelled by a Pirate horde for awhile.  I got Plasma armor and made 1X-3-4 ships.  Sea combat isn't any better, as my offensive chemical weapon gun isn't any stronger.

However, I've made a surprising discovery about artillery duels with a ship in port.  If you win, it kills the civilians!  I've wiped out a sea base this way, show above.  There used to be a city there.  So the key to chemical weapons war at sea, is don't fight on the water.  Fight the enemy in port, where it will destroy their city.  With Plasma armor, it seems the drill is to sail right up to the enemy cities, completely ignoring everything, and then fire.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #661 on: July 01, 2019, 08:13:49 AM »
MY 2252.  A quick war with the Pirates just isn't possible, unless you start right on top of them.  I was able to clear out their sea bases near to my home territory easily enough, but trying to go the long distance to their home bases, they're really spammy.  They keep taking my ships with their Marine Detachments.  I have a small production advantage due to my +1 INDUSTRY, but when making 4X-3-5 units it's not enough to turn the tide.  I haven't completely done ship production because I do have a powerful Usurper sitting right next to me that I need to be wary of, and also prototypes that I have to wait to complete.  I tend to start the civilian projects in between weapons cycles.

I kept my Conquer focus and have now researched Doctrine: Initiative.  If I can complete the Maritime Control Center, that could turn the tide in the war against the Pirates.  However I have little incentive to make more ships before then, so they're going to get a bit of a breather.  When I send my ships one at a time past allied Gaian territory into Pirate waters, they just get picked off, so once the current crop is done I won't bother anymore.

I'm also finding out those 1X-1-1 Scouts I made at the beginning of the game, perform poorly.  It took a pile of them just to eliminate some interloping Cultist Synthmetal Rovers.  Granted, the defenders were on Rocky terrain.  Those X Scouts might have been great if I had sent them against Usurper cities defended with only Scouts, but they might have been a bit of a joke against Synthmetal.  At least they didn't cost me anything extra to make, but I'm disappointed.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #662 on: July 01, 2019, 09:16:23 AM »
MY 2278.  That just didn't work, so at 4 AM I quit.

Fighting the Pirates early using expensive X ships, wasted way too much of my productivity for no real result.  The Cult eventually came into land contact with me, adding to Pirate spam that was already hitting my shores again.  Yes I would have completed the MCC fairly soon, but waiting for that to happen is not a quick game.  It starts to feel no better than any other typical game I've ever played, with the abiding sense that a number of things could have been done better.  The main one is I simply didn't expand, as I thought capitalizing on early X weapons would get me something.  Turns out that the Cult eventually shows up with X weapons too.

Rushing the Usurpers might have been a better idea.  I don't know if I needed X weapons to do it.  As it happened, I was never forced to fight them.  I was tough enough that they didn't want to get into it with me.

The moral of this story is I learned how to use an artillery duel to cause mass casualties.  Might be a good trick in the future, although on land it will require gaining "two abilities" capability first.  In my mod that comes with Doctrine: Initiative.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #663 on: July 01, 2019, 02:39:40 PM »
first use of X Scouts in anger
first use of X Scouts in anger

New game.  I drew the Caretakers.  I'm on a supercontient that twists and encompasses the entire globe, if only a 1 square land bridge existed across 1 channel.  I decided to make a beeline for chemical weapons and Applied Physics.  I've never really abused chemical weapons as the Aliens before.  I think I can use them scott free against the humans?  It'll be pretty funny if that's not true and Planet kills me.

I soon discovered the Cult of Planet was near me.  I trailed after one of their colony pods for awhile, preventing it from settling.  I also acquired several mindworm larvae as I popped pods.  Soon I found the Data Angels immediately to the west of me, in the way of my expansion.  They had a Colony Pod next to one of my mindworms and I'd finally had enough.  In 2136 I attacked!

A Data Angel Scout was threatening to approach my westmost city.  I immediately changed production to an X Scout to gain an advantage.  Now in MY 2138 we see the result of such an interchange.  For Scout vs. Scout combat, this is a good move.  The odds for a Green attacking Scout aren't amazingly better though.  Facing against a terrain advantage, or an inherent city defense, this might not be a harbinger of doom.  We'll see.  On the other hand the point may be moot because my mindworms might do things faster.

Then again, I'll have Applied Physics in 7 years.  This might be a debacle for humankind!  There's no way any human faction can match an Alien determined to get Lasers early.  Interesting that Conqueror Marr doesn't beeline for it when played by the AI.  He's the only faction in my mod that has a Conquer only research focus.  Seems to work fine for him.  All the human factions need Explore as part of their focus, to trigger the better initial colonization algorithm.  The Caretakers probably could do Conquer only, but they don't, because they're a +1 PLANET faction and learning how to make mindworms and biology labs etc. is valuable to them.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #664 on: July 01, 2019, 03:20:07 PM »
destruction of poorly defended capitol
destruction of poorly defended capitol

MY 2148.  X Scout vs. Scout in city worked pretty well.  Both were Green and the Nerve Gas is stronger than the inherent base defense.  I'm not sure these odds are correctly displayed though.  I captured them in mid-battle with a quick screenshot, as I had neglected to set the Confirm Odds Before Attacking preference.  In this screenshot I have Power 3 vs. Power 0 and that seems weird.  Could be that's the Power of a dead unit.


Offline Rocky

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #665 on: July 01, 2019, 06:28:23 PM »
I just lost my first game with your AI Growth Mod. (With Induktio's Thinker AI)


I seriously underestimated the effects the specialized research paths would have and that turned out to be my downfall. I kept going back into the old mindset of the vanilla game that I could afford to delay researching (I'm playing with Blind Research) military techs a bit longer because I would be able to get them later with a higher tech level and better infrastructue. Turns out it didn't work like that.

By the time I did get Laser tech and Impact weapons I was behind in manpower. I could not stop the near endless assault of Spartan Impact Infantry and Rovers, as well as a group of Probe Teams. I lost my outer cities and although I could have tried to make a stand with my core cities the game felt lost.

The Hive was growing in size and the war against the Morganites was swinging in their favor. I have to admit, the Morganites did well in the opening stages of the war by capturing several Hive cities, but when the Hive's war machine kicked into gear they took those cities back. What followed was a back-and-forth taking and re-taking of each other's cities until the Hive finally overwelmed the Morganites in numbers and began pushing into their territory.

The Believers were invading the Gaian core cities and although the Gaians put up a good fight (retaking some of their cities at first) the Believers had the momentum and established a presence within Gaian territory.

Worse, the University, although direct neighbors of the Spartans, had somehow evaded their attention and were building up their infrastructure, their tech level going through the roof. They still seemed to have a small military so I'm not sure if they can survive for much longer, because after the Gaians are gone they would be sandwiched in between the Spartans and the Believers, both now fielding a massive Impact army. Infiltrating their datalinks I noticed the Spartans, Believers and Hive were now also building lots of Impact Tanks.

I lost, but I had a lot of fun as it made me realize there are a lots of subtleties in your AI Growth Mod. It really feels every choice matters now, and making the wrong choices or investments could have irreversible consequences. The vanilla game offered some support by spreading out its military tech in different branches.

But it makes so much more sense (And something your mod conveys so well) that if you want to have the most advanced military technology, you have to be prepared to invest heavily in it, and to be prepared to sacrifice progress in other fields of science in return because you're diverting scientists and resources toward that goal. It feels realistic and I like it.

Already started a new game. This time as the University. The Spartans are my neighbors again, but this time I'm not going to make the same mistake. (I hope)

« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 08:15:26 PM by Rocky »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #666 on: July 01, 2019, 09:36:45 PM »
The most consistent "big picture" mistake I've made playing my mod, not even with Induktio's AI, is not spreading enough at the beginning of the game.  I like to stop and go vertical when I have the techs.  It's similar to what you said, in that it takes a lot longer to gain an advantage with the techs than you think.

Back to my current game of shooting children!  The Data Angels and the Cult of Planet are complete babies compared to me.  They really shouldn't have started next to me.  It'll be interesting to see if I can expand my logistical reach fast enough to other players, to bring the same can of whup ass before they've got acceptable defenses.

Offline Rocky

Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #667 on: July 02, 2019, 12:46:29 AM »
The most consistent "big picture" mistake I've made playing my mod, not even with Induktio's AI, is not spreading enough at the beginning of the game.  I like to stop and go vertical when I have the techs.  It's similar to what you said, in that it takes a lot longer to gain an advantage with the techs than you think.


I entirely agree. It's the same for me too, I like to go vertical as well when I get the chance. I'm looking forward to find out if I'll do better in my next game.


Offline bvanevery

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #668 on: July 02, 2019, 02:05:13 AM »
the accidental vassal
the accidental vassal

MY 2154.  I accidentally whacked the Cult into surrender without using any X Scouts.  This might prove that X Scouts are a solution in search of a problem, if you have captured mindworms.  The Data Angels on the other hand hate my guts and are almost dead.

careful of kindness
careful of kindness

MY 2158.  I discover the Manifold Nexus in Cultist territory.  I can't very well let them have that.  They want 250 credits for it.  That's acceptable, as compared to more brutal alternatives.  Or I could save the game and see if I can simply extort it!  Let's see.  Hmm, there's no option to threaten them.  I'll just buy it from them in a bit, assuming I don't manage to get my own Colony Pod up there first.

goodbye wimp
goodbye wimp

MY 2159.  I earn the eternal enmity of the Data Angels, I think.  Don't know if a reset makes them any less sore about atrocities.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #669 on: July 02, 2019, 02:15:29 AM »
small down payment on empire
small down payment on empire

MY 2161.  My vassal extorts me for 272 credits, but I gain +3 PLANET and +1 RESEARCH.  Cult spread will be more manageable as I let them run into a bunch of mindworms on their approach to the Manifold Nexus.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #670 on: July 02, 2019, 03:00:06 AM »
kind to the worm lovers
kind to the worm lovers

MY 2162.  Deidre shows up on my shore.  She's in contact with Lal, but wanted a tech in exchange for his comm frequency!  Blew that off, as if.  Signing a Treaty as I don't know exactly where she is or how quickly I can conquer her.  There's always probe teams to make her upset later!  I need to figure out who my next victim is.

pulling the Alien's proboscis
pulling the Alien's proboscis

MY 2171.  Really surprised she did this.  Doesn't she know how badass I am?  Well now I know which way my next victim is.  "South", somewhere.

mindwormfulness
mindwormfulness

She meant it too.  Wasn't just randomly knocking her unit into me.  Fortunately I have lots of troops arriving in the region, back from wiping out the Data Angels.  They were going to explore the eastern part of the supercontinent, but they can certainly be pressed into service en route.


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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #671 on: July 02, 2019, 04:07:56 AM »
fickle fighter
fickle fighter

MY 2195.  Deirdre knocks it off as flippantly as she began it.  Best I can tell, everyone is far away from me.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #672 on: July 02, 2019, 04:19:07 AM »
not far enough
not far enough

MY 2196.  I have found the Data Angels.  The are south of me, and oddly, land has just been bridged between our continents.  They must have set off an earthquake.  I was just in the northwest corner of the screenshot, I hauled an Artifact out of there.  I will bring down my X Scouts and see if that's enough to wipe them out for good.

I suppose I could have saved myself some trouble, by leaving them 1 city until the year 2200 came.  But I did it this way!  I honestly didn't think they'd be the nearest victim.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #673 on: July 02, 2019, 05:33:20 AM »
slogging with chemicals
slogging with chemicals

MY 2213.  I walked all the way to the Datatechs without any roads.  I finally begin an assault on a Datatech city using 3 X Scout units.  I lost the 1st one but did some damage.  Let's see if this 2nd one prevails!  Nope.  Ok, here comes a 3rd, but it's 20% wounded.  Hrm, still not quite there.  I've got a 4th unit that can attack at 2/3rds strength, or I can just wait.  I'll just wait.  I can attack with 2 X Scouts and 1 mindworm next turn.  The moral of the story is it can take up to 4 X Scouts to take out 1 Synthmetal Sentinel, and that's without any Sensor Arrays.  Also I think all my Scouts are Green and the defender was Hardened.

We've been in sunspots for awhile.  I've been tromping around various people's lands exploring them.  Nothing too nefarious.  I've been directing my research towards Discover techs.  I've built the Human Genome Project and will do the Virtual World next.  Planetary Datalinks after that.  I'm so far away from everyone that it seems more practical to fight Secret Project wars.  I still haven't learned Monopole Magnets.  I know someone's got the tech, but I'm only at war with the Datatechs right now.  I expect that will change once the sunspots lift.

MY 2214.  SOB he built another Synthmetal Sentinel.  I've never infiltrated anybody.  Never got around to making any Probe Teams at all.  It's ok as I do have a mindworm to attack with, but it seems wasteful to have gone so far last turn.  I'll make more of a plan next time.

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Re: SMACX AI Growth mod
« Reply #674 on: July 02, 2019, 07:48:09 AM »
economy of death
economy of death

MY 2239.  A single X Laser Speeder is devastating.  It took me awhile to figure out how to use it properly, as I marched all the way to the east to take out a city that only had 1 defender.  Marching back, I realized that scooting from a Monolith over and over again is a good play.  I also attacked this turn with a 20% wounded X Scout, hoping that might end things, but it didn't put much of a dent in the defending Scout.  I conclude that X Scouts aren't that great.

I've only been sending silly junk at the Data Angels, just leftovers of previous garrisoning.  Mostly I've been building Secret Projects and fishing for Artifacts.  I have captured large numbers of Isles and a fair pile of Independent mindworms.  I pity the fool who thinks they would invade me, 'cuz it wouldn't work!  With the Planetary Datalinks I'm starting to gain the stuff I never stole from anyone.  Soon it'll be time to build a rail somewhere.

 

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