SMACX AI Growth mod

[bvanevery]

Try reversing the negative values. I got one of my custom factions to use Green doing this.

Did they use Green as soon as they knew how to make mindworms?  Because that's the point.  Even in the original game, the AI will eventually use Green once they know how to make locusts.  But that can easily be 150 years.  All sorts of fungus walking opportunity squandered before then.

I wish I could make the AI use Green before knowing how to make mindworms, but that seems to be too much for the puny AI brain to handle.  At least the Gaians already start with +1 PLANET, so they can capture mindworms.  They really should take the combat bonus though.  It's only like, their social fixation, what are they stalling for.

Even with no penalty, and even with Green being available as a Tier 2 tech, the AI will take 75 years to do it.  That's because making mindworms is a Tier 3 tech and it takes that long to get there.

[vonbach]

I switched the values before logging in to an old game and checked the faction profile. As far as i know no one can make mindworms.
Most however are using simple economics for the +growth.

[bvanevery]

Well here's another chapter in "don't know how to play my own mod".

Details Cultist marine assault

Cultist marine assault

I had so much more tech than everyone else I assumed I was invulnerable, right?  Wrong.  Never bothered to make Perimeter Defenses because I thought I'd be capturing the Citizens' Defense Force "any year now".  Never had productivity because of all the Secret Projects I was trying to finish.  So, made some Fusion ECM 3-Pulse infantry as a garrison in every city.  Nobody else had fusion power so I'm good, right?  Wrong.  Pursuing Wealth really does make you weak, particularly when Elite troops show up.

They freaking clobbered my city.  All of my cities are important too, they've all got a Secret Project in them.  This one had the Planetary Energy Grid.  I've been playing this game for a truly stupid number of hours and I'm not even going to bother retaking this, I'm done.

My increases in Secret Project cost are "effective".  It's a more weighty decision to complete a project, at least when city production is low.  And it does stay low for awhile, because units have accelerating cost increase as they become more powerful.  This makes for a... rather... slow... ... ...game.

I don't think that's necessarily bad, but I obviously don't know how to deal with it.  I had piles of Formers, and no army to send after them.  I tried to put some fungus tendrils into enemy territory.  My intent was to surround and choke their cities with fungus, but I found without a bunch of offensive units, I couldn't really do it.  I did manage to make elaborate fungal barriers on my borders, which made it rather easy to defend my own lands.  However the AI would keep spamming yet more units on my border.  I'd always kill them, but they'd always keep coming.  Without more productivity, it's a border stalemate.

So I guess popping roughly 20 Artifacts to get techs really didn't help me much.  I could have used them for some early Secret Projects instead.

Chemical warfare did not seem advisable.  Many of the factions started working on Planet Busters while I was trying to get all those Secret Projects done.

The moral of the story is less tech, more troops.

[ChaDawnFanatic]

nvm

[vonbach]

I had so much more tech than everyone else I assumed I was invulnerable, right?  Wrong.  Never bothered to make Perimeter Defenses because I thought I'd be capturing the Citizens' Defense Force "any year now".  Never had productivity because of all the Secret Projects I was trying to finish.  So, made some Fusion ECM 3-Pulse infantry as a garrison in every city.  Nobody else had fusion power so I'm good, right?  Wrong.  Pursuing Wealth really does make you weak, particularly when Elite troops show up.

Ouch thats a good example of why it's a good idea to invest in a powerful military. With mag tubes everywhere I like to build infantry and swarm the enemy.
My solution to an aggressive neighbor is to get them to declare on me first and hammer them so i don't get invaded in the first place. You can work with wealth but it takes some preparation. Trained units and monoliths and such.

The moral of the story is less tech, more troops.

Tech is fine just build troops as well.

[bvanevery]

Tech is fine just build troops as well.

In my mod nowadays there's not as much point to having advanced tech.  The manufacturing costs are so expensive, you're going to pay a premium for the units.  So you either take a long time to build troops, take a long time to build factories and then less time to build troops, or you build mindworms.  Which I'm raising in expense, back to the level of the original game.  The balance of power has clearly come to favor mindworms.

[vonbach]

In my mod nowadays there's not as much point to having advanced tech.  The manufacturing costs are so expensive, you're going to pay a premium for the units.  So you either take a long time to build troops, take a long time to build factories and then less time to build troops, or you build mindworms.  Which I'm raising in expense, back to the level of the original game.  The balance of power has clearly come to favor mindworms.

Mindworms are nice. They also don't need support if you place them on fungus.
I just build me troops early and upgrade them (and try not to lose them). If all else fails just build infantry with
no defense at all and just spam them if you have to. Honestly I rarely have have problems building anything but I'm a builder.

[bvanevery]

Mindworms are nice. They also don't need support if you place them on fungus.

They don't?  I've never noticed that.  I thought you just got independent mindworms from capturing them reasonably far away from your territory.

[vonbach]

They don't?  I've never noticed that.  I thought you just got independent mindworms from capturing them reasonably far away from your territory.

I thought everyone knew that. Its one of the main reasons to use them. It's written down somewhere. I the wiki I think.
If you do it right you can raise huge armies of them in reserve.

[bvanevery]

Seriously doubt "everyone" would know that, because I can't find anything in the Datalinks about it at all.  Nevertheless, looking at my manufactured mindworms that are on and off fungus, the SUPPORT costs are consistent with what you say!  That might explain why I've occasionally been confused about the number of units I'm supporting, why the minerals sometimes didn't add up.

I'm the Usurpers in my current game.  I'm determined not to make the same mistakes as last game.  The new reality for 1.30 seems to be, you really have to choose which Secret Projects you're going to work on, and be willing to skip some.  Running the table with all the Secret Projects is not likely to happen.  The Consciousness is the other major power in the game, and the graph says they're as good as I am.  They've completed several SPs, as have I.  I destroyed 1 of their cities that was near me and not anywhere near their homeland.  I'm not even sure what their empire looks like, but I think it's mostly on the opposite side of the map from me.  Hence their ability to grow and prosper.  I just got done conquering the University and obliterating the Caretakers, using Police State Socialist Power.  Now I've switched to Police State Capitalist Wealth.  -4 PLANET, yeehaw!

I tried giving the Pirates a Build only focus.  They did not do as well as usual.  I wager that if I'd given them their usual Explore, Conquer focus, it would be a 3 way game instead of a 2 way game.

[vonbach]

Seriously doubt "everyone" would know that, because I can't find anything in the Datalinks about it at all.

Really? I didn't know that. I think its on the Wiki or something maybe thats where I saw it.

[bvanevery]

I don't think it's in the manual either.  I just searched through it for the words "mind" and "support", and didn't find anything about mind worms getting a free ride while sitting in fungus.

In other news, -4 PLANET is really awful against mindworms.  I was willing to sacrifice old Cloaked Scouts against them for awhile, until I started running out of them.  Pretty much need to shell them and get them half dead before attacking.  Maybe even more, like 2/3rds dead if they're sitting on fungus and getting a defense bonus from that.

[bvanevery]

I tried switching the order of Socialist and Green, and switching the Politics and Economics rows.  Also tried putting -GROWTH in the beginning or middle of the Green sequence instead of at the end.  None of these things caused the AI to swallow the GROWTH penalty, so I gave up and went back to the no penalty version.  And I'm kicking 1.30 out the door, on the grounds that it's been a year since I started working on it.  This might be the final cut, knock on wood.

[bvanevery]

CHANGELOG
Changed from version 1.29 to 1.30:

FACTIONS:

- Caretakers: removed POLICE penalty.  Removed restriction against using Police State.  They have been consistently underpeforming for a long time.  The Usurpers, in contrast, have generally done just fine.
- Cybernetic Consciousness: changed research foci to Explore, Discover.  Added Polymorphic Encryption as a free ability for all units.  When they had Discover, Conquer focus they underperformed.  I believe almost all the factions need Explore focus to ensure early empire growth.  Encryption is to give them a different flavor from the other research factions.
- Data Angels: removed ECONOMY bonus.  Changed secondary social priority from ECONOMY to PROBE.  Changed research foci to Explore, Conquer.  Changed personality to Erratic.  They can now get +3 PROBE early in the game by choosing Fundamentalist, so I don't think they need an ECONOMY buff.  They should pursue a research path that will actually lead them to Covert Ops Center, the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm, and Thought Control.  I tried giving them a Conquer only focus, but in 2 test games they made very few cities.
- Gaians: actually reduced JUSTICE to +1.  This was supposed to be done in version 1.26, and the faction's description text was changed, but the actual value was not.

SOCIAL ENGINEERING:

- Frontier: GROWTH penalty removed.  It was meant to counterbalance the bonus in Simple economy, and now that's gone.
- Police State: removed ECONOMY penalty.  Playtesters thought -1 ECONOMY -2 JUSTICE was too harsh for the benefits given.
- Democratic: moved to B2 Ethical Calculus.  This is a better home for it.
- Fundamentalist: removed POLICE bonus.  Added +1 PROBE.  This becomes more like the original game, although with PROBE not as powerful.  It does let the Data Angels get to +3 PROBE very early though.

- Simple economy: GROWTH bonus removed.  The AI fixates on choices that have GROWTH in them.  This was preventing factions from choosing their primary compulsion.  For instance, the Gaians would not go Green.
- Capitalist: moved to B2 Industrial Base.  Removed INDUSTRY bonus.  It was overpowered.
- Socialist: increased ECONOMY penalty to -2.  Other ECONOMY penalties in the table went away, so this has more of a penalty.
- Green: removed GROWTH and SUPPORT penalties.  Reduced PLANET to +1.  The Gaians are supposed to choose Green, but with any kind of penalty they refuse to do so, unless they've learned how to make Locusts.  This bugginess is present in the original game!  To work around it, Green has no penalties.  Without penalties, the only way to balance it is to make it minimal.  +1 PLANET is still valuable though, as it lets you capture mindworms.  I tried removing the JUSTICE bonus as well, but the stacked JUSTICE penalties from other choices become too severe, so I relented.

- Power: increased MORALE to +2.  Removed GROWTH penalty.  Removed PROBE bonus.  When MORALE was at +1, playtesters said this choice felt weak.  The AI hates GROWTH penalties, it will avoid social engineering choices with them.  PROBE bonus is moved to Fundamentalist.
- Knowledge: raised RESEARCH to +2.  Removed JUSTICE bonus.  Only getting +1 RESEARCH seemed feeble.  JUSTICE was removed partly to balance this, partly to make a quantitative contrast with Cybernetic, and partly because knowledge doesn't guarantee it'll be used justly.  For instance in the original game, Zhakarov was accused of amoral research on human subjects.
- Wealth: removed INDUSTRY bonus.  It was overpowered.

- Cybernetic: reduced JUSTICE to +1.  Thematically I want Eudaimonic to be more just.
- Eudaimonic: removed INDUSTRY bonus.  Added +1 PLANET.  I want the total available PLANET from all the social engineering choices to be +2, but Green can't do it and be balanced.  Eudaimonia is already in the Explore tech tree, so this is a decent place to put it.  It does a little harm to Domai's storyline but we'll just pretend all those workers, deep in their little Workerist hearts, really want to do the right thing for Planet.  INDUSTRY bonuses are overpowered, especially when stacked.

EXPLORE TECHS:

- Biogenetics: set wealth=3.  Police State gives +2 SUPPORT, which is a kind of wealth, and there's no ECONOMY penalty anymore.
- Monopole Magnets: now an E3 tech.  Set power=3 and growth=4 as it now gives the Planetary Transit System.  I find I can't actually get enough Formers together to build a serious mag tube network until Tier 3 techs are appearing anyways.  Having the PTS with Ethical Calculus bugged me, and this is a better home for it.
- Homo Superior: set power=3 and growth=4, making it an E6 tech.  The preceeding and following techs are about Psi combat, and it's weird having the flow of Explore techs be interrupted.  Thought Control does make people happy, the same way Police State does.  Making it an Explore tech makes it easier for the Peacekeeper AI to build the Empath Guild.  Diplomatic Victory is arguably just as much about population growth as it is about abbreviating a Conquest victory.
- Eudaimonia: now an E7 tech.   I wanted a more peaceful prereq to E8 Super Tensile Solids than E7 The Will To Power.
- Brood Pit: moved to D8 Secrets of the Manifolds.  Now costs 160 and maintenance 4.  It cheapens mindworm production by 25%, making this pretty much a factory specialized for native life.  It also boosts a city's POLICE rating.  When it's cheap, players will build it just because it's another happiness building.  Raising the cost will make them think about whether it's worth it.

DISCOVER TECHS:

- Optical Computers: set power=0 and wealth=0.  It now gives the Virtual World and no longer gives the Planetary Datalinks.  The Virtual World only makes people happy.
- Cyberethics: set power=2, tech=4, wealth=2, and growth=2.  It now gives the Planetary Datalinks and no longer gives the Virtual World.  The Planetary Datalinks could help any category but there are no guarantees.  Tech=5 was exaggerating the importance of Cyberethics.  It used to come later and gave the Network Backbone.

BUILD TECHS:

- Ethical Calculus: now B2 tech.  Set wealth=4 and growth=3 as it now gives Democratic.  This is a better home for it.
- Reinstate U.N. Charter: now available with B2 Ethical Calculus.  It goes with Democratic.
- Fungicide Tanks: moved to B3 Ecological Engineering.  This frees Synthetic Fossil Fuels to be used elsewhere.
- Nanominiaturization: set wealth=0.  It no longer gives the Nano Factory.
- Industrial Automation: set power=3.  It now gives the Nano Factory, which heals wounded units in the field.
- Thermocline Transducer: moved to B5 Planetary Economics.  Making it available with B4 Environmental Economics is overpowered, particuarly when a faction builds a lot of sea bases.
- Subsea Trunkline: moved to B6 Bio-Engineering.  It's cheaper than a Genejack Factory and shouldn't be such an easy giveaway.
- Technology for +1 mining platform bonus: now B7 Industrial Nanorobotics.  It shouldn't be so easy to get sea minerals, especially considering the Pirates get +1 minerals on Ocean Shelf squares anyways.

CONQUER TECHS:

- Air superiority unit vs. air unit: reduced to +50%.  Weapon vs. armor ratios are lower, and Sensor Arrays are tougher.  Units shouldn't be invulnerable to air attacks.
 - Comm Jammer unit defending vs. mobile unit: reduced to +25%.  With all the defensive advantages I've made, getting past one of these in a base was way too difficult.
 - Technology to allow 2 special abilities for a unit: moved to C4 Doctrine: Initiative.  It's useful here and precedes other techs where 2 abilities are very useful, such as C5 Doctrine: Air Power and B5 Advanced Ecological Engineering.
- Orbital Insertion: now available with C9 Graviton Theory.  It was coming too early.  On a Huge map it can take awhile to get within air strike range of an enemy.  I want that time window to be longer, before one can just skip it.
- Geosynchronous Survey Pod: reduced cost to 80 and maintenance to 2.  It's a glorified Sensor Array and shouldn't cost that much.  Frankly I never build them, as I've long since got a Sensor Array grid by that point in the game.

- Doctrine: Loyalty: set growth=0.  It no longer gives a POLICE bonus.
- Neural Grafting: set growth=3 as it now gives the Neural Amplifier.
- Soporific Gas Pods: moved to C5 Neural Grafting.  I want it to have a benefit other than a Secret Project.  This ability is expensive to keep it from ruining the defensive balance, so hopefully it is not harmful having it a bit earlier.
- Synthetic Fossil Fuels: now a C6 tech.  Set power=4, wealth=0, and growth=0.
- Missile Launcher: moved to C6 Synthetic Fossil Fuels.  C6 Orbital Spaceflight has been overloaded with too many things of value.  If it does not give a weapon, the weapon sequence is easier.
- Organic Superlubricant: now a C6 tech.  Having it available at Tier 4 was making the game way too easy.  It was also a prereq for Needlejets and that's unrealistic.
- Mind/Machine Interface: now a C6 tech.  This is due to repositioning Self-Aware Machines.
- Bioenhancement Center: moved to C6 Mind/Machine Interface.  I don't want these available any earlier as they throw off the defensive balance.
- Self-Aware Machines: now a C7 tech.  I want Algorithmic Enhancement and the Nethack Terminus to come later.
- Graviton Theory: now a C9 tech.  On a Huge map, Gravships often become available before Needlejets have even had a chance to fight each other.

- changed many prereqs for research focus continuity.

SECRET PROJECTS:

- The Planetary Transit System: moved to E3 Monopole Magnets.  This frees Ethical Calculus to go back to E2 and give Democratic.
- The Virtual World: moved to D3 Optical Computers.  Hologram Theaters are not that expensive in this mod and that makes the Virtual World not as powerful or worthwhile.  It should come earlier to save the bother of building Hologram Theaters.
- The Planetary Datalinks: moved to D4 Cyberethics. 
- The Xenoempathy Dome: now costs 400.  It's powerful.  It gives tremendous tactical advantage in fungus and a native lifecycle bonus.
- The Maritime Control Center: now costs 400.  It's powerful.  It gives +2 ship movement and the training, healing, and defensive advantages of Naval Yards.
- The Neural Amplifier: now costs 400 and moved to C5 Neural Grafting.  It's powerful.  It pretty much puts a brick wall in front of a PLANET friendly mindworm spewing faction.  Tier 4 is too early for it.
- The Nano Factory: now costs 400 and moved to B6 Industrial Automation.  This is to consolidate Build techs, and to make the AI unwilling to trade Supply Crawler technology.  It may not be the greatest Secret Project ever, but it needs to be priced appropriately for Tier 6.
- The Longevity Vaccine: now costs 400.  It's later in the tech tree and needs an appropriate price.
- The Planetary Energy Grid: now costs 500.  It's hugely powerful, a license to print money.
- The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm: now costs 500.  It's hugely powerful.
- The Pholus Mutagen: now costs 500.  It's powerful.  It confers a combat benefit, a native life cycle bonus, and it lessens eco-damage.
- The Empath Guild: now costs 500.  It's one of the keys to winning the game.
- The Network Backbone: now costs 600.  It's powerful.  Part of a general price increase to make everything not so easy to get.
- The Cyborg Factory: now costs 600.  It's powerful.
- The Living Refinery: now costs 600.  It's powerful.
- The Self-Aware Colony: now costs 600.  It's powerful.
- The Nethack Terminus: now costs 600.  It's powerful.
- The Dream Twister: now costs 600.  It's powerful.
- The Cloudbase Academy: now costs 800.  It's more powerful than a lot of other stuff.
- The Space Elevator: now costs 800.  It's more powerful than a lot of other stuff.
- The Manifold Harmonics: now costs 800.  With +3 PLANET it gives a huge resource boost.
- Clinical Immortality: now costs 800.  It's one of the keys to winning the game.
- The Cloning Vats: now costs 1000.  It's hugely powerful.
- The Bulk Matter Transmitter: now costs 1000.  Lotta power in all those minerals.
- The Voice of Planet: now costs 1000.  It's gonna take more to get Planet's attention nowadays.
- The Singularity Inductor: now costs 1500.  It's game breakingly powerful.
- The Telepathic Matrix: now costs 1500.  It's game breakingly powerful.
- The Ascent to Transcendence: now costs 3000.  Modders differ on how the game should end.  Some make this a prohibitively expensive project and a long industrial race to complete.  If it's too long, even a faction in a hopeless position could come back from the grave.  I think it should take longer than the original game, but that by now, the game should end.

PREDEFINED UNITS:

- Mind Worms: now costs 5, same as the original game.  Weapons power has shifted too heavily in favor of Psi combat.  Restoring costs can help even it out.
- Spore Launcher: now costs 5, same as the original game.
- Isle of the Deep: now costs 8, same as the original game.
- Locusts of Chiron: now costs 10, same as the original game.
- Sealurk: now costs 8, same as an Isle of the Deep.
- Super Cruiser Formers: new unit available with B5 Advanced Ecological Engineering.
- Super Slider Formers: moved to C7 Advanced Spaceflight.
- Slider Probe Team: moved to C7 Advanced Spaceflight.

The attachment limit per post is 5, and I eventually ran out of room at the top of the thread.  Consequently, this becomes the new home of version 1.30.  It was downloaded 179 times before I moved it here.

[vonbach]

Good Grief.
Fundamentalism is now useless. Capitalist is now useless. Socialist is very overpowered. Green is mostly useless.
Power is decent if weak with the penalties. Knowledge is overpowered but then it always was.
Wealth is mostly pointless compared to power or Knowledge.