Peacekeepers - same map, same start

[bvanevery]

Dang!  I think the moral of this story is, I can win if I play a tighter endgame and keep my big mouth shut.     I suppose conquering a Standard size map is a lot more doable than the much larger maps I usually play.  There's my cognitive bias, I never really took outright conquest seriously.  I'm pleased that you got Sunspots at roughly the same time I did.  I was at least right that you would not beat me by playing the game the same way I did, i.e. Diplomatic Victory.

My concession speech:

"I lost because I sat around getting fat eating mangoes in the Monsoon Jungle."

[Buster's Uncle]

A tie does not humiliate me after all my SMAC-talking, so I thank you for doing a Man's job, sir.

-I look forward to a rematch more carefully set up to eliminate random luck and determine bragging rights...

[bvanevery]

It's not a tie, he beat my time by 10 turns.

[Buster's Uncle]

Oh.  Stupid moment on me.  Uuhhh-

     






-That should do it. [shrugs]  He's OG and played a heckuvalotta stronger opponents, like I said - and done his share of SP, too.  MPlayer power is MAX, yo.  (There's also a mild trash-talking tradition I've encouraged; it adds value to following a TTT as a spectator.)


---
How did I miss that MAN'S gracious concession speech? 

[bvanevery]

MPlayer power is MAX, yo.

That's not why he won.  Here's what happened: 1) he played a sloppy opening game, 2) I played an excellent opening game, 3) I played a sloppy mid and end game, 4) I ran my mouth, wanting to see what he could do, and also not wanting to beat someone "unawares".  5) he played an excellent end game.  Beating me by 10 turns, 5 of which are merely due to me accidentally using an X unit on Yang.  I don't even know how that happened.

Point is, a 5 turn margin of victory is not a show of force by some superior MPlayer.  As far as beating AIs go, we are roughly equal.

I propose the following rule in a rematch.  Anyone who does not finish the game in 200 turns or less, loses.  Conceivably, all players could lose.  I think this will remind all comers that they must play a really tight game.  I'll certainly remember now, as will Mart, but it could help newcomers get focused.

It might be appropriate to play with "No Random Events" though.  So that someone isn't being squeezed into 180 turns due to sunspots at the end.  Although I suppose, sunspots merely prevent Diplomatic Victory, and prevent factions from surrendering, meaning a few more cities have to be conquered outright.

[Buster's Uncle]

We need a CMN to set it up - I don't really understand how what they do works, but I trust that they're trained to do exactly what you need...

[bvanevery]

Well, as I outlined earlier, accepting some limitations on which factions can be in the game, obviates the need for a 3rd party setup.  Reasonable terrain would also be a requrirement - hard to play a quick game if you spend all your initial time struggling to get off a tiny island before you get anything good.  I think the settings I devised for generating more land mass on Enormous maps, actually do work on Standard maps as well.  The way I've verified that "it seems to work", is just to reroll worlds and look at the results over and over again.

The liability I'm seeing of a 200 turn limit, is it may not be possible to research MMI in that time.  Maybe I could have done it if I knocked off Santiago early and changed to Knowledge when it became available.  Otherwise, I had tons of facilities, everything you can think of, and I still didn't get MMI until 2319.  Hard to see how I'd shave that down since "building everything" is how I played the majority of the game.

[Buster's Uncle]

Disagree -the experts know their stuff, period- but the likelihood of a CMN not-Mart turning up with time to help renders the question moot.  Your best effort is probably the only thing that will actually happen...

[bvanevery]

Remember though this is not Multiplayer setup.  It is not important for all factions to get fair starts, or even for the player to get a fair start.  It's only important that everyone is getting the same start.  The 3 late starting factions complicated that because they shift their starting positions around.  The solution is to have only 1 such faction in the game as a non-player.

I guess dropping the 200 turn limit idea allows for various kinds of unfair starts.  Just play through.

If I tell people up front that I'm going to try to win in 200 turns, that would have the same effect of reminding people to tighten their games.

[Buster's Uncle]

Sure - and my point about CMNs is fair start = equal start.  They're specialists in setting that up.  Equal-situation start would be better as a contest and test and all, less trusting it to luck evening out, pure test of skill.

[bvanevery]

But the situation is equal in single player, so long as faction start positions aren't randomized after the game begins.  It doesn't take human intervention to solve the "3 late factions" problem.

I'm thinking that rather than worrying about randomizing factions, I'd just pick "all warlike violent" factions for the next game.  And maybe the player has to play Morgan.   

[Brecon]

I would agree with avoiding factions that have late starts in random locations. 

This past weekend I had some time and wanted revenge on the Caretakers so I tried the game again remembering lessons from the previous one.  Developed centauri ecology then set research to military.  Traded Cent Ecol for Doct Mobility with the Spartans and developed laser and impact weapons as the next two techs before resetting tech focus to explore.  I thought I would then proceed to take my revenge but there were no Caretakers (or any other faction) in the jungle.  I settled the non-Spartan section of the continent and then ignored the rest of the factions other than defending my territory.  I finished the game by transcendence in 2337 (could have been quicker but I did not bother to micromanage late game and I forgot that the tech lifting energy production limits was in the build section and when I finally got that tech my research rate went from a tech every 3-4 turns to a tech per turn).  So the second attempt had a considerably easier starting situation then the first.

[bvanevery]

I thought I would then proceed to take my revenge but there were no Caretakers (or any other faction) in the jungle. 

Wow!  Those late starting factions are even more random than I thought.
 

I finished the game by transcendence in 2337

Uuuh is that a typo?  Because even with foreknowledge, if you beat my time by 3 turns by transcending, you know something about the game that I don't.

[Buster's Uncle]

I can't help the snipe, b.  Forgive pls.

[bvanevery]

I hope that's a typo, because otherwise my understanding of the budget is piss poor, or else micromanaging specialists is insanely profitable and I've never bothered.  Mart and I both got to approximately the same level of tech in 2330..2340, not even remotely near transcending.  Transcending in 2437, that I would believe.