US Presidential Contenders

[Dale]

Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?  I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?

Von comes across as a strong nationalist-fascist, as opposed to a number of you who come across as strong leftists.  Would I be right in that assumption?

[vonbach]

Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?

The Democrats and Republicans are two wings of the same political system.

I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?

What I was saying was [Sleezebag] essentially doesn't cave in to the left.
Thats my issue with the Republicans and people in general. They cave in instantly to leftist bullying tactics.
Basically they're scared of being called a racist. Its like a accusation of witchcraft in the middle ages.
There is no defense against it and you can lose you career over it at minimum. Its leftist bullying.
The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to them and thats what [Sleezebag] is doing and its why he's
so popular.

Von comes across as a strong nationalist

Correct. I refuse to accept my country being turned into a third world country.
Basically I hold the same views that everyone in America took for granted a hundred years ago.
Especially when I wasn't even asked. Its genocide. Don't believe me look up the U.N
definition of the term.

[Rusty Edge]

Okay this thread in the last couple of pages has been a bit confusing to a non-American.  Democrats are left and Republicans right..... right?  So where do the major players stand on the spectrum?  I saw von refer to [Sleezebag] out-lefting a leftist, but isn't he on the right?

Yes , I can see how it would be confusing. 
True, while I like my political spectrums to have more than one axis, generally speaking Democrats are considered left of Republicans, and right of Europeans.

On the Democrat spectrum, challenger Bernie Sanders is far left.

 Front runner Hilary Clinton... I don't trust a word she says... so I looked into her voting record as a senator for an objective measure.  By statistical analysis she was the 11th most liberal member of the 100 person senate during her years in that office. Obama was 23rd.

Some more numbers from the 110th Congress, to further help put things in perspective:


Most liberal Dem         1   Sanders     -0.523
                        11   CLINTON     -0.391
Median Dem              33   Biden       -0.331
Most conservative Dem   51   B. Nelson   -0.035
Most liberal Rep        52   Specter      0.061
Median Rep              76   McConnell    0.409
Most conservative Rep  101   Coburn       0.809


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/31/1374629/-Hillary-Clinton-Was-the-11th-Most-Liberal-Member-of-the-Senate#

As you can see, Vice President Joe Biden ( described as the Shrodinger's Cat  of the election, he is or isn't running ...we don't know) is a mainstream Democrat, to the right of Sanders and Clinton.


Donald [Sleezebag] is a billionaire celebrity real estate developer  who decided to run for president. He's known for deal-making, divorces, and firing people. He hasn't held political office and doesn't have a voting record. People form opinions on his beliefs  based upon his history of changing opinions, party registrations, and political donations.   He's from the city of New York, more liberal than the rest of the country.  It's hard to say for sure. He's not a far right Republican.



On the Republican side, with 17+ candidates, and most of them stuck in single digits,  it's probably best to allow the herd to thin and political positions to harden, but if you have a question about anybody, or issue in particular, I don't mind looking it up for you, Dale.

[Buster's Uncle]

Dale, I'm a social conservative who believes social conservative values are personal, not a matter for Caesar, and all over the place on actual political issues, leaning left more out of disgust for the shoddy behavior of the right than disagreement with small-government-and-fiscal-responsibility positions - the ones who actually believe -and practice- that are not wrong at all.

If the (deeply schizophrenic - the political conservatives belong in an opposite party more than the same as the teabaggers) Republican party actually stood for that, rather than all the socially conservative (bigoted, lowest-common-denominator, trash-talking/lying/hypocritical) garbage, I'd consider switching registration.

I'm satisfied that Sanders has paid his dues and proven that he Gets Things Done.  At this late date, the pragmatic CV concerns impress me more than his ideology (also, we haven't had a real Democrat in the White house since Jimmy Carter, and I'm sick of DINOs).

[Dale]

Ahhhh okay, that's give a much better perspective of the relative placements of parties / contenders to our Australian counterparts.

Our two main parties are right of Europe, with Labor being left of Liberals.

The Greens represent a European left, whilst the Nationals are the Rural Conservatives and the Christian Conservatives and One Nation to the right of Nationals.

Tony Abbott (Prime Minister) is right wing Liberal with his Conservative Catholacism (which explains his anti-abortion anti-same-sex-marriage stances).  Bill Shorten (Labor leader and Opposition Leader) is left wing Labor coming from hard-line Unionism.

So for us normal people (75%) in the middle both leaders are repugnant for different reasons.  The other 25% are represented by the Greens, Nationals and other assorted left/right wing minors.

[Trenacker]

Dale, the Democrats are the liberal party and the Republicans the conservative, although both would be positioned to the right of virtually any European political party with the exception of some of the newer nationalist parties.

Although you may often hear about the "reliability Republican" South or the "liberal Northeast," the United States does not have any distinctively regional parties. Democrats typically draw their support from urban populations while the Republican Party is more popular in rural areas.

There is substantially less party discipline in American political parties as compared to their European counterparts. As a rule, however, the wings of either party dominate the primary elections, which determine which candidates for office will run in the general elections. This is in small part because voting in the United States is widely considered a hassle (we do not receive time off work), and in much larger part because the wings of either party tend to be home to the most passionate partisans -- those people who are more apt to believe that a victory for the opposing party would be Very Bad News™. In recent years, the Republican Party has suffered most from this trend: so-called fringe candidates will do well in primaries with a small, hard core of ultra-conservatives, then get trounced by a more moderate Democratic opponent who siphons votes from the moderate middle.

The extent to which candidates are better off pandering to their base and hoping for good turnout, versus compromising on issues in hopes of attracting voters who are undecided, is a matter of considerable debate. Right now, I think, Republican politics is dominated by the myth that a large (decisive) bloc of ultra-conservatives is staying home rather than vote for a "weak" or "false" conservative with more appeal to moderate voters, but I'm honestly not sure that's the case, both because ultra-conservatives should still prefer a weak conservative over a confirmed liberal, and because, if that bloc were really so decisive, they'd be able to ram their own candidate of choice through the primary process.

The average American voter is highly skeptical of what is derisively known as "European-style Socialism," or welfare socialism, which is often caricatured as one step away from Communism.

In general, conservatives tend to focus on themes of fiscal responsibility (a balanced budget, reduced taxation, etc.), a stout national defense (conservatives tend to dominate the national security establishment and have historically been considered "hawkish" since at least World War Two, and an identifiably Judeo-Christian morality (restrictions on abortion, advocacy of "traditional" lifestyles and cultural norms, etc.). Many conservatives are keen about the Laffer Curve, an economics equation that supposedly demonstrates that reduced taxation will stimulate more private investment, which in turn will grow the economy and actually generate more tax revenue. They are generally skeptical of government, citing the inherent inefficiencies of bureaucracy and asserting that those who are merely given public money have no incentive to steward it properly. They also tend to believe that regulation usually imposes unreasonable burdens on business. They are also usually of the belief that private charity is superior to redistributive policies, and many conservatives are firm believers that free social services, including free healthcare, actually discourage people from working.

Right now, there is a major battle within the Republican Party among those who prioritize social conservatism and the so-called Establishment, which is usually conceived of by its critics as an alliance of socially liberal, fiscally conservative businessmen and their political puppets. These are your "classic" or "traditional" conservatives: Nixon, Ford, and the like. In practice, many religious conservatives in the United States are actually unwitting Dominionists -- those who would govern according to Scripture, if they could. (This is why you hear so many Americans speak very unthoughtfully about the danger posed by "Muslims.")

Social conservatives in the U.S. generally feel as if they are coming under fire for their views and are concerned that they can no longer express their true values in the public forum. They are therefore usually critical of so-called "political correctness." They are also inclined to stress personal accountability in all things, to the extent that they may be prone to discounting structural and historical factors that contribute to poverty or alienation. I think this has a lot to do with their perception that to talk about these issues is really just to imply endorsement of liberal policies, as if to admit the existence of structural inequality is to commit to a particular strategy for dealing with it, which is ridiculous. Social conservatives are also generally the party of "law and order." They prioritize tradition and certainty over the ambiguity of social change. They tend to reduce matters to the level of the individual. Not crime, but a criminal.

The Democratic Party is more positive about the ability of government to act as a leveler to redress inequality. They are more comfortable with the idea that government needs to use regulation to correct for market distortions and historical iniquities. They are generally the party of Big Labor and the urban poor, and it is a point of dispute whether this support is simply a reflection of their more generous social policies or whether conservatives have shot themselves in the foot by giving the impression that they are the party only of old, angry white people. They are also, unsurprisingly, more popular among Millennials, who generally hold progressive social views. Democrats are more likely than Republicans to believe that faith is a private matter for the individual, to support abortion rights, to accept Affirmative Action policies, and to value consensus-seeking on the international stage.

[Buster's Uncle]

Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/

[Rusty Edge]

Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/

Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much organized information about them available?

[Buster's Uncle]

Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?

[Rusty Edge]

Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?

I don't know about all... Washington and Eisenhower didn't have much of a voting record, I don't think. So I wouldn't  make that an automatic qualifier, I don't want to be locked into career politicians only. I'm pleased with my business owner/accountant turned US Senator.

That said, it sure is nice, and would be a great step forward as a new norm!

[Buster's Uncle]

I do think the gentleman we have in residence is a good man - but you know I don't think he's done a good enough job.  Not being a fraction as bad as possibly the worst president in history isn't good enough.

-I put a lot of that down to Bakrama hadn't paid his dues, and wasn't ready.  One incomplete hitch in the Senate at the national level isn't even close.

I thought so at the time, and I think events have more than proved me right.

[Buster's Uncle]

[Yitzi]

Wouldn't it be nice if all candidates had that much background of proven governance experience and accomplishment to organize information about and make available?

Fiorina has quite a proven background as a chief executive...it's a background as a complete failure, but still a background.

[Buster's Uncle]

In business, as a CEO.

I heard she did really well in the losers' debate, but I'm not even looking at anyone without government experience.  Pay Your Dues.  We've had really horrible 'luck' lately with under-qualified presidents.  Pay. Your. Dues.

[Dio]

Interesting Bernie fansite compiling his CV: http://feelthebern.org/

 
The website has:
(a): Pictures that provide stereotypical examples of the "issue" they represent. *Checks box on list*
(b): Covers most of the domestic and foreign areas of concern. *Check*
(c): The website domain consists of a catchy play on words. *Check*
(d): The content on the website interior attempts to sell you on his "achievements." *Check*
Overall it appears as though he is your standard politician with slightly more than average information available in regards to his stated location on various concerns.