Alpha Centauri 2 Forum Community Succession Game

[binTravkin]

Discarding* the option to go south and east I would settle on these spots:
 - 99,5 (river, flat, rainy, coast)
 - 102,10 (flat, moist, coast, outside city radius)
 - 109,7 (flat, moist, coast)

Other options
 - 117,7 (river, rolling, moist, outside city radius, border with Hive)
 - 116,4 (rolling, arid, outside city radius, in range of border with Hive, in range of river starting @ 117,7)

I like the first two because of river and because not overlapping so much as others and because these are safe (from Hive & PK).
And they are coast, which is beneficial (aquafarms, thermoclines).

* - we can discuss going East and South but then the CPs are essentially wasted as we are not getting a lot of turns out of their produce and are wasting 1 mineral on upkeep for each of them

[Kirov]

I agree with 99,5 and 102,10, too. However, 117,7 is also tempting. As long as the Hive doesn't get rovers, that is (and use them smartly, which is another thing). I'd put our 2-1-1 there, add a sensor and watch flocks of the Hive units come only to die. IIRC, a well-placed bottleneck or just defence perimeter can fend off hordes of AI with only 2-3 units for a better part of the game. There is some risk to it, but the gains are considerable - the Hive attacking only at one place, us getting morale upgrades relatively safely.

binT (and others), what's your opinion about an early project before crawlers? So far it's two for, one against.

[binTravkin]

We have 3rd CP in production, ready in 3 turns, so we can still also have that.

To bottleneck Hive we should position a synthmetal sentinel (tech in 3 turns) and a 2-1-1 @ 117,9.
We don't see what's north of it yet, but it's likely that invasion will come though "The Hive" base.
Blocking 117,9 would necessitate them to clear it before advancing.
It's a rocky tile, so with a sensor we can get a +75% defense bonus there.

The reasons you'd want to take an early SP:
1. Someone else grabbing it.
This is unlikely. No AI has started any SP yet and they don't know how to insta-build.
The strongest AI is likely to go to war with us soon and Hive is already.
Believers and Spartans might not even have the tech for WP yet (even PKs don't have it!).

2. Some benefit which offsets the cost.
HGP is currently entirely useless to us and we will only be able to use WP efficiently AFTER we have crawlers.
For now our formers are more than managing - we only have 1 base with good workable tile deficiency (fixed in 2 turns) and 3 bases with more good workable tiles available than they can work.

Besides, we're quite unlikely to finish the SP before we get IA.

So, I'm against.

I would propose that we now switch all free (4 in total) bases to 2-1-1s later to be supplemented by 1-2-1s for an assault on PKs.

[binTravkin]

I'm waiting for your feedback on this:

I would propose that we now switch all free (4 in total) bases to 2-1-1s later to be supplemented by 1-2-1s for an assault on PKs.

Or should I just go ahead with my evil plans? 

[Vishniac]

Go ahead!
The game is yours for 5 turns.

[Kirov]

Well, I'm not exactly convinced. I find little use for (best A)-1-1 units. They're slow and easy to swat like a fly with scout patrols. Yeah, you can drag 1-2-1 with you, for even higher support for quite a number of turns before they even arrive at the scene. Usually I prefer to hold off attacks until I get something actually useful plus infiltration.

Don't forget those PK rovers. If he fields more of them, even with 1-2-1 we're at risk.

In my (distant) opinion from such early wars, it's like this: you build infantry for relatively lots of minerals, they take forever to get somewhere, then they land right next to a bunch of 2-1-1s in order to die.

[Kirov]

Go ahead!
The game is yours for 5 turns.

Now I feel like I impose the most. Guys, I know nobody is really bound by predecessor and other backseat drivers, but I'm worried that we don't get much done without at least consulting. We don't even lead in pop right now. Am I the only one to think that more collaboration is in order and, in fact, more fun?

[binTravkin]

Ok, but I think we should have more than 1?
2 to fend off PK rovers, 1 to bottleneck Hive, 1 in reserve?
We can also switch 1-2 to them to 1-2-1 which we will need anyway (for both aforementioned purposes).

There's little else we can build at the moment.
Rectanks are better rushed with credits, which we don't have.
We can and should also assemble a mind worm army, but this doesn't conflict with building some "heavier" units.
We can simply use the 2-1-1 or 1-2-1 as garrison while scouts comb fungus.

[Buster's Uncle]

Now I feel like I impose the most. Guys, I know nobody is really bound by predecessor and other backseat drivers, but I'm worried that we don't get much done without at least consulting. We don't even lead in pop right now. Am I the only one to think that more collaboration is in order and, in fact, more fun?

Debate and a hint of drama probably adds value for the lurkers and the rest of us following this...

I do tend to agree with you, but working with what you found on your turn versus what you wish you'd find is sorta the whole point of the exercise.

What you're looking for is a democracy game, something a number of people have expressed interest in in the past - and certainly something I could promote the heck out of offsite, to the good of AC2...

[Kirov]

Ok, but I think we should have more than 1?
2 to fend off PK rovers, 1 to bottleneck Hive, 1 in reserve?
We can also switch 1-2 to them to 1-2-1 which we will need anyway (for both aforementioned purposes).

There's little else we can build at the moment.
Rectanks are better rushed with credits, which we don't have.
We can and should also assemble a mind worm army, but this doesn't conflict with building some "heavier" units.
We can simply use the 2-1-1 or 1-2-1 as garrison while scouts comb fungus.

2 1-2-1 units on sensored forests will fend off both factions effectively, IMHO.

As for the rest of production, I'd put RecTanks in. We're going to be poor for a foreseeable future.

But by all means, add some units to production. I believe that in such a case it's best to find some offensive use for them, otherwise it's just tying our low support.

Adding 'Explore' before the next breakthrough will allow us to hope for rovers and mount a real offensive.

Go ahead and we'll work with that.

[Kirov]

I do tend to agree with you, but working with what you found on your turn versus what you wish you'd find is sorta the whole point of the exercise.

What you're looking for is a democracy game, something a number of people have expressed interest in in the past - and certainly something I could promote the heck out of offsite, to the good of AC2...

A demo game is a commitment, let's play this and see what happens. I do find it fun never to know what others will do, but:

1) I believe there are several aspects really worth working on together. War is the first to come to my mind, we can actually lose a fight to the AI otherwise. SE and projects, essentially any long-term commitments are another.

2) I strongly believe that bouncing ideas around is way more fun than just pushing turns in silence, no matter if what is said is actually followed in game.

[Buster's Uncle]

Oh, 2) makes it completely better for those of us following, too, whether you guy agree or not.

[Geo]

I don't feel it necessary to create a bunch of laser infantry after the first one is finished, but having a synthmetal prototyped should be a priority. Its all about having the capability without losing time still having to prototype stuff when the **** hits the fan.
And while there's indeed not much use for the Genome Project now, it would be useful by the time it is finished.
Lack of population was mentioned. Having enough overall talents to let our bases grow would increase it by at least a third in short time, without having to divert workers or energy to psych. That could put us in the voting field around the time the Planetary Council is called.

[Kirov]

Anyhow, we can discuss and of course play on at the same time, so go ahead bT whenever you're ready.

On the secret project thing, I see the pros, but imho they do not outweigh the con of losing a base for so long. Nevertheless, I'll go with the majority.

[binTravkin]

Ok, so I played it:

2146:
 - moved scout in the north back towards our territory
 - moved 2 idle formers to 115,9 to rush a sensor
 - moved 1 idle former to 114,4 to make a road towards 116,4 with goal to put sensor there
 - switched all idle cities to scout patrols (for now)

2147:
 - sensor on 115,9 finished, moved scout - reveals Hive colony pod @ 118,8
 - forest @ 102,12 finished
 - moved idle former to 105,11 to start new forest
 - solar collector @ 100,6 finished, road started
 - switched scout patrol @ Blackroot Palace to recycling tanks since they are going to be ready in just 9 turns

2148:
 - new PK 2-1-2 appears @ 111,15
 - PK have founded a base @ 116,20 - borders moved
 - Hive CP @ 118,8 does NOT move
 - Blackroot Palace switched to 2-1-1 (panic!)
 - 1 former from 115,9 moved to 115,7 to create a road there
 - 2 idle formers @ 115,9 plant forests
 - Resplendent Oak founded @ 102,10, production left as scout patrol for now
 - Lucky Autumn founded @ 99,5
 - Children of Earth switched from scout patrol to rectanks to prevent it finishing it - we may need those 10 minerals soon
 - Industrial Base completing next turn

2149:
 - the 3rd PK 2-1-2 disappears in unknown direction that is out of range of our sensors, likely one of: 109,15 | 110,16 | 111,17
 - the Pines finish formers, switched to recycling tanks
 - road @ 105,7 finished
 - road @ 100,6 finished
 - road @ 115,7 finished
 - forest @ 115,9 finished (workers in Thorny Vineyard changed)
 - Children of Earth starts working on prototype Synthmetal Garrison, 10/30 finished, 7 turns to go
 - Thorny Vineyard gets switched to Recreation commons - city is about to grow in 5 turns and will have 1 drone
 - Garden of Paradise is set to build a Synthmetal Garrison to replace the scout sitting in forest @ 112,12
 - CP from Garden of Paradise starts movement north (final destination TBA), arrives @ 111,7
 - former from The Pines gets its home base changed to Lucky Autumn to reduce mineral loss
 - since we have more than enough former-power, I decide to build some farm+solar combos where it makes sense, starting with 103,7
 - idle former assigned to build sensor @ 105,15, to take a peek what's going on in PK coastline
 - idle former assigned to build sensor @ 116,4, pending decidion on CP (this may be mistake)

2150:
 - unfortunately I was unable to prevent drone riots @ The Pines as that would mean disbanding a former (-1 minerals)
 - idle former assigned to build road in 100,8 to be followed up by forest and sensor
 - idle former assigned to build farm @ 103,7
 - moving scout into 115,9 now allows to discover 118,6, which is a river tile covered in fungus - it now appears Hive's only connection to our territory is 118,10
 - I decide to move CP into 117,7, but it only manages to get to 115,7, same with it's escorting scout patrol
 - both of the idle formers @ 115,9 sent into Thorny Vineyard, just in case PKs decide to attack
 - idle former @ 115,7 starts to plant forest there
 - Gaia's Landing switches to rec tanks to avoid finishing scout patrol this turn
 - idle former moved to 103,7
 - our next tech likely is Planetary Networks, 7 turns to go - after we get IA we can milk them dry of tech

Bad news! 
At the start of 2151 2x 2-2-1 appear @ 118,10.

Only 1 city have unchangeable production at the start of 2151 - Blackroot Palace (Synthmetal prototype), rest - up to you to adapt.