SMAC/X and affinities

[Yitzi]

we all die eventually anyway

and how hard is it, really, to hide a man

In a police state?  Fairly risky.

[BlaneckW]

In a police state?  Fairly risky.

I assure you that I could hide a man.  The Nazis would not even come into my room.

[ete]

Although now that I look at it, supremacy seems to include a lot of "high tech to improve living conditions as humans" as well, which definitely is his thing, so I'm changing it to  would probably be supremacy, albeit one without uploading.  So then we have:

Harmony:     
Supremacy:         
Purity:         
None: 

This seems to have been solved since here. is not trying to do the Harmony thing, she's trying to kill the others then leave Planet. Her entire philosophy and the point of her faction is _avoiding_ transcendence, and transcendence is the closest parallel to Harmony.

on the other hand is specifically trying to transcend. You could argue he'd pass for Supremacy since he does not use natives in warfare and is keen on advanced tech, but given his ultimate goals...

[lifehole]

I'd heavily disagree with the assessment that morgan is surpemacy. I'd argue he is purity.

I see these affinities as more of a path for technological progression, and not necessarily purely ideology.

Purity wants to simply advance/use technology to change/adapt to the environment and advance without modifying ourselves rather than changing ourselves to adapt to the environment. I'd put Morgan in this category since he is so fervent about anti-environmentalism (someone said that adaptation to the environment is the most economically feasible, and while true, that doesn't seem to be morgans intent in AC, imo. Free Market social engineering is his thing and that is terrible for the planet.) I'd put lal and miriam in this category also. The reason I wouldn't put Santiago in this category is because of the in-game quotes referring to her as the perpetrator of a lot of cybernetic advancements.

While her ideology is arguably human orientated, the willingness of her to use technological modification to 'strengthen' the human race would put her in the supremacy category for me.

Supremacy/Harmony want to adapt and see the option of modifying ourselves as the path our technology should take. Harmony thinks that genetic/biological modification is the way to go, while supremacy thinks pure technological transformation/integration is the way to go.

Overall I don't think nearly as much thought was put into Beyond Earths affinities as the characters and ideologies of the original 7 alpha centauri.

Harmony: ? ?
Supremacy:      ? ?
Purity:     

Miriam and Lal being in purity is because of the ingame quotes making their opinion on technological modification clear. Lal COULD be harmony, but his agenda is more social and human orientated than anything.

Yang to me is a wildcard. I would put him in both those categories. He finds self-modification completely acceptable, obviously. Whether he is more leaning towards technological or biological modification is not really known. His quotes ingame put him more in biological area, but he does not care about biological 'harmony' and more just about how to improve the human race without care for the environment.

As for the crossfire factions, well, that's another thing entirely.

[ete]

Morgan as Purity fits reasonably well early on, but I find it very hard to imagine him turning down economically beneficial human modifications, uploads, or robots late game. He's all about doing whatever it takes to win in a free market, and that's kind of in opposition to staying purely human once you get to a certain point of technological advancement.

And Yang may be into biological improvements as well as technical ones, but he's not interested in native life. It's very much a make humans better thing, which seems more fitting to supremacy.

Santiago as Supremacy has some sense to it, I'm on the fence about this now. Definitely early on she's more purity focused, but does end up using enhancement tech. Still, she's heavily into *human* survival.. could go either way.

[lifehole]

Morgan as Purity fits reasonably well early on, but I find it very hard to imagine him turning down economically beneficial human modifications, uploads, or robots late game. He's all about doing whatever it takes to win in a free market, and that's kind of in opposition to staying purely human once you get to a certain point of technological advancement.

And Yang may be into biological improvements as well as technical ones, but he's not interested in native life. It's very much a make humans better thing, which seems more fitting to supremacy.

Santiago as Supremacy has some sense to it, I'm on the fence about this now. Definitely early on she's more purity focused, but does end up using enhancement tech. Still, she's heavily into *human* survival.. could go either way.

tbh when discussing civilizations/technology 'survival' doesn't really play in all that much, especially when talking about these affinities, since this is what route we take once we have 'survival' down, it's more about adaptation. so I dunno if santiago's survivalism applies as much.

I agree with your assessment of yang, but I still see him as more pro-biological enhancement than technological, but yet, less planet-friendly.

I dunno about morgan. He is an economist and relies on human economic behavior for his ideology to function. If he changes the definition of human, then we kinda get to a point where his ideology is irrelevant/muddled, and then it gets down to his personality whether or not he would do such things.

And you're probably right, he is greedy, and will probably willingly turn people into robo-slaves to mine resources, heh.

I supposed their ideologies and alignments/'affinities' change as time goes on.

At start:

Purity:

Harmony:

Supremacy:

In the end though, it might look more like this:

Purity:
Harmony: 
Supremacy:     

[BlaneckW]

on the other hand is specifically trying to transcend. You could argue he'd pass for Supremacy since he does not use natives in warfare and is keen on advanced tech, but given his ultimate goals...

Harmony is means, not ends.  You people are mentally blind.  Satan is also transcendent, but most do not argue that devils are harmonious.

[Yitzi]

Purity wants to simply advance/use technology to change/adapt to the environment and advance without modifying ourselves rather than changing ourselves to adapt to the environment. I'd put Morgan in this category since he is so fervent about anti-environmentalism

  is not fervent about anti-environmentalism.  The social engineering he can't run is planned (communism), not green.  He doesn't get along well with  at first, because he's not going to let environmentalism get in the way of business, but he's far from fervent about anti-environmentalism.

I'd put lal and miriam in this category also. The reason I wouldn't put Santiago in this category is because of the in-game quotes referring to her as the perpetrator of a lot of cybernetic advancements.

I don't remember those.  Which quotes are you referring to?

While her ideology is arguably human orientated, the willingness of her to use technological modification to 'strengthen' the human race would put her in the supremacy category for me.

If you can find those quotes, there's a good choice you're right.

Yang to me is a wildcard. I would put him in both those categories. He finds self-modification completely acceptable, obviously. Whether he is more leaning towards technological or biological modification is not really known. His quotes ingame put him more in biological area, but he does not care about biological 'harmony' and more just about how to improve the human race without care for the environment.

I think his quotes focus on moving away from biological constraints, which is very much Supremacy.

tbh when discussing civilizations/technology 'survival' doesn't really play in all that much, especially when talking about these affinities, since this is what route we take once we have 'survival' down, it's more about adaptation. so I dunno if santiago's survivalism applies as much.

Except that if the survivalism is based on a desire to see humans survive, that would be relevant.

I agree with your assessment of yang, but I still see him as more pro-biological enhancement than technological, but yet, less planet-friendly.

Even if so, the biological enhancement will not include Planet's own genetics, so that's not harmony.

I dunno about morgan. He is an economist and relies on human economic behavior for his ideology to function. If he changes the definition of human, then we kinda get to a point where his ideology is irrelevant/muddled, and then it gets down to his personality whether or not he would do such things.

No; I think that he considers economic behavior to be, if not fully universal, at least far more widespread than requiring just the human form.

I supposed their ideologies and alignments/'affinities' change as time goes on.

At start:

Purity:

Harmony:

Supremacy:

In the end though, it might look more like this:

Purity:
Harmony: 
Supremacy:     

That's a thought, that it might change.  But if someone moves from Purity to Supremacy, then that usually means they were Supremacy-aligned all along and just didn't have the means to implement it beforehand.

Harmony is means, not ends.

I think that affinities are to some extent both.

You people are mentally blind.  Satan is also transcendent, but most do not argue that devils are harmonious.

Different type of transcendence, and different type of harmony.

[lifehole]

The quote I was referring to was the quote for Mind/Machine interface tech. I think it's Lal implying santiagos use of technology. or "The warrior's" Which I suppose isn't necessarily santiago but I've always taken it that way. There's also the cloning vats, which, while not necessarily breaking purity it still implies some technological use/abuse of the human form.

The way I see  is resource and consumption at all costs due to his many quotes on not caring about long term sustainability (forgotten future, let us chew and eat our fill, etc.) and that generally doesn't mean good things for the environment. Renewables tend not to produce as much as fast.

Also, yangs quotes to me seem to be both about ceding our biological restraints, but also seem to be about modifying our biology, but yeah I think I agree with him probably going towards supremacy. Maybe harmony if he was put into the Beyond Earth universe simply because it can be controlled to benefit humanity.

Really, yang would/could be both. You can mind upload and genetically 'meld' in both paths(collectiveness), and he also has genejacks, but also talks about the crass demands of flesh and bone(technological) Then he talks about improving the sacred brook(genetics) etc.

[BlaneckW]

Yang does not have the technology for supremacy.  He couldn't do it at the beginning of the game.

[Buster's Uncle]

But isn't an affinity something you grow into?

[lifehole]

Yang does not have the technology for supremacy.  He couldn't do it at the beginning of the game.

In that case, noone is supremacy, and noone is supremacy in beyond earth, either. Since you don't choose your affinity at the beginning of the game.

[Yitzi]

The quote I was referring to was the quote for Mind/Machine interface tech. I think it's Lal implying santiagos use of technology. or "The warrior's" Which I suppose isn't necessarily santiago but I've always taken it that way. There's also the cloning vats, which, while not necessarily breaking purity it still implies some technological use/abuse of the human form.

Hmm...nothing really clear there, but it does sort of indicate that direction...I think we can put  down as a question of Purity or Supremacy.

The way I see  is resource and consumption at all costs due to his many quotes on not caring about long term sustainability (forgotten future, let us chew and eat our fill, etc.) and that generally doesn't mean good things for the environment. Renewables tend not to produce as much as fast.

True, but that's not anti-environmentalism so much as a-environmentalism.

[BlaneckW]

But isn't an affinity something you grow into?

In the real world purity would be lower tech.

[Yitzi]

But isn't an affinity something you grow into?

In the real world purity would be lower tech.

If that's what you think, then that suggests you're misunderstanding purity.  There are some fairly late techs that give Purity bonuses...