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Other Games => Other Games => Topic started by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 05:12:06 AM

Title: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 05:12:06 AM

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 04:57:23 AM

Quote from: BUncle on May 30, 2014, 11:20:54 PM

Oh, my machine was basic specs 3 years ago when I got it - if I do any BE modding, it will be with screenies someone supplied me - I've never had 5, but did a pile of avatars when it came out anyway.

Actually, I should upload said pile to the installed stuff, shouldn't I?  I think I'll do that now.

I will probably not get involved with Civ:BE due to a very limited financial budget. My computer was basic and standard 4 years ago.

I have been there. I have had what I called my "dark ages of gaming" where I did not game much at all because of my lack of income and the huge expense of buying equipment to stay in the fight. The last dark ages lasted from the mid 90s to the early 00s. I missed Ultima Online, the first Civs, and a few other gems from that era. Did not play AC till 3 years after release when I saw it on special at a Virgin Mega store. Someone had given me an old Pentium with Wndows 98.

At least back then I made up for it by playing a lot of Dungeons and Dragons in coffee houses. Only expense there was books, coffee, and dice. Had to buy a battle mat, but no way was I going to get trapped into getting hundreds of minis. We used dice and markers for characters and creatures.

In a way, though, I miss those days even more than the best computer gaming memories. Do not know anyone that plays, I am older and I do not think I would be well received sitting at the table with 18 to 30 year old LSU college nerds, nor do I think I could set aside being a certain place at a certain time week after week. There is something to be said about face to face gaming.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 05:30:08 AM

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

That and recruiting and keeping attendance. If you were a DM, everything you drew up could be made worthless if 2 people out of five did not show that were crucial to the storyline. It was a pain in the ass.

I agree, one shots are cool. But the problem was and still is that a lot of folks push for campaigns instead yet lack the commitment todo a campaign and refuse to do one shots.

Another problem is the whole DM "my world" issues. Everyone wants to be the DM, but you got to check your ego at the door and remember it is the player's fun that matters, not your "world". So many DMs out there that do not let the players do cool stuff... I think those issues as well as what you have mentioned killed off the pencil and paper movement.

That and the fact that there are MMOs. MMOs lack the flexibility and personal touch. But you do not have to worry with egos preventing you from gaming with rules that change on whims, pissing people off if you quit/ can not show up/ want to get laid instead that day, and you can play at 3 AM in your underwear and not have to go out if you wish.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 05:35:43 AM

Take this (excellent) OT to Other Games, maybe?  This is a Site thread about recruiting efforts...  Cool if I split it off?

Also?

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

Yeah; getting up with people is the big hassle...

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:37:50 AM

Quote from: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 05:30:08 AM

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

That and recruiting and keeping attendance. If you were a DM, everything you drew up could be made worthless if 2 people out of five did not show that were crucial to the storyline. It was a pain in the ass.

I agree, one shots are cool. But the problem was and still is that a lot of folks push for campaigns instead yet lack the commitment todo a campaign and refuse to do one shots.

Another problem is the whole DM "my world" issues. Everyone wants to be the DM, but you got to check your ego at the door and remember it is the player's fun that matters, not your "world". So many DMs out there that do not let the players do cool stuff... I think those issues as well as what you have mentioned killed off the pencil and paper movement.

That and the fact that there are MMOs. MMOs lack the flexibility and personal touch. But you do not have to worry with egos preventing you from gaming with rules that change on whims, pissing people off if you quit/ can not show up/ want to get laid instead that day, and you can play at 3 AM in your underwear and not have to go out if you wish.

No comment on the last paragraph because it is not applicable to me. Otherwise that pretty much sums up my experience with the game.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 05:41:11 AM

Quote from: BUncle on June 01, 2014, 05:35:43 AM

Take this (excellent) OT to Other Games, maybe?  This is a Site thread about recruiting efforts...  Cool if I split it off?

Also?

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

Yeah; getting up with people is the big hassle...

No issues, BU.

"Missing Old Friends" brought me off on a tangent about DnD.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:42:55 AM

Quote from: BUncle on June 01, 2014, 05:35:43 AM

Take this (excellent) OT to Other Games, maybe?  This is a Site thread about recruiting efforts...  Cool if I split it off?

Also?

Quote from: Dio on June 01, 2014, 05:18:39 AM

I have played a few D&D games and was never particularly impressed with the game. I found the time commitment and scheduling to be the most painful part of playing the game. However, if you simply played one off games it could be okay.

Yeah; getting up with people is the big hassle...

I am fine with it being moved.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 05:58:24 AM

Check Other Games shortly...

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 06:29:57 AM

and it is here...

One of the other things that irked me some times in my DnD days. I was heavily into it and may have had more experience than most of you guys.

The "girlfriend/wife/lover/ whatever" of the DM.

I am not talking about girl gamers. Most of the best girl gamers will theorycraft and out tactical battle the best gamers. They simply rock and are out of the league of mere mortals. Anyone saying otherwise has not been around them.

Instead, I am talking about the person who happens to be sleeping with the DM. She is given extreme favoritism on loot, is often allowed to do cool things while your character is limited, and even the slightest disagreement can earn wrath and being kicked from game. Extra facepalm points if the DM's significant other can not play and has no intentions of learning and the DM tells her exactly how to play the character.

Any old pnp gamer run into that one?

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 06:34:59 AM

I did have a few gurlz in my circle back in the day, but none of that crap, IIRC - and I would have been annoyed by any unfairness I noticed, and remembered.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 06:38:29 AM

Quote from: BUncle on June 01, 2014, 06:34:59 AM

I did have a few gurlz in my circle back in the day, but none of that crap, IIRC - and I would have been annoyed by any unfairness I noticed, and remembered.

Yeah... and those games never lasted long. If they made it 3 sessions, it was lucky.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 06:39:29 AM

It is true that none were regulars, yes.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 07:10:38 AM

My campaign I ran lasted the longest. It ran from 00 to about 2004 every week and spanned 2nd to 3rd edition. I think one of the keys was I let them do cool things. Those guys were ruling nations and changing the world towards the end. I was merely a CPU like a computer running an MMO. That and we were all service industry and Mondays were always off. New Orleans is set up for walkers and bike riders so they did not really have to commute. We did have one guy drive 2 hours to game with us because he lived in Mississippi and could not find games there.

But hell.. I should tell you the tale of the worst "DM/DMs girl" stories ever.

After the game I had collapsed in 2004 because of folks taking new jobs, not being abl to make it, etc I wanted to find a new game. While a lot of folks once they have DMed successfully refuse to do anything else but DM, I did not really care. I like the game for the tactics aspect whether it was building one charater or controlling hordes of well balanced creatures against 5 or 6 other folks who were building their own combos and strats.

I saw on my computer there was a meetup group at he FairGrinds coffeehouse up in Mid City. I took off on my bike over there. Unfortunately, for supposedly being a "DnD" meetup group, there was no DnD actually being played. Instead there was about 3 DMs looking to recruit. Blasphemy. When I was at Rue, there was gaming. We made you watch us play then the next session, you were in. that was the first flag. Why no gaming?

One of the DMs was not looking for gamers. e hosted the meetup group and was just there to facilitate the meet up. Lame. the second DM was not even running a DnD game. Instead he was some kind of indie wannabe publisher that wanted to play test his product. Nothing against that, but that was not what I wanted.

The third DM and his wife were actually looking for players for a DnD campaign. My interest was tweaked until the host pulled me to the side. He told me that he himself and a few random others decided to give the guy and his wife a go at gaming the meetup the month before. They all made characters that were first level with almost no equipment. So far a bit underpowered for my taste, but par for the course for most DMs I thought. The session that they were in he described then took the form of a mad, surreal ego trip. The wife was some sort of goddess and the characters were trapped on some sort of ethereal planescapish type hell where they could do nothing useful and all the monsters could one-shot them.

Needless to say, even if the DM and his wife learned their lesson, I really wanted tactics and not an ego booster group role play astral meditation fantasy. I caught a ride back with the indie developer, putting my bike in his trunk. I think I played nothing but MMOs until Katrina hit a year later except for an occasional one shot with the Rue de la Course alumni when they popped in.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 07:21:20 AM

My brother says Norleans is infested with demons, and maybe you met a couple that night.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 07:31:23 AM

Quote from: BUncle on June 01, 2014, 07:21:20 AM

My brother says Norleans is infested with demons, and maybe you met a couple that night.

Yeah... some also view "roleplaying" as BDSM. Slave/master sex stuff and spankings.  Lots of that in New Orleans. There were times that I had to clarify myself online.

No... I do not want to be a slave and be tied down irl. I want tactical battles with in character stories behind those tactical battles. Of course if you are a cute girl and want to dress like an elf.....

That stuff came up more often than I would have liked.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Lord Avalon on June 01, 2014, 09:10:41 AM

In junior high my first RPG experience was D&D, possibly 1st ed (I do remember I bought the box set with the three little booklets), maybe AD&D. I also played a little Traveller. Switched to a public high school, so didn't do any roleplaying. I was also into wargames, Avalon Hill & SPI. In college it was back to AD&D. Then Champions & Fantasy Hero.

Anyone play Gamma World? I had an OP character, rolling (at least that's how it was in 1st edition) 4 physical and 4 mental mutations (the max) - and they were all good mutations. I had Total Carapace, which reduced damage - also movement; but then I had Increased Speed, which gave me an extra attack (maybe 3/2) and increased movement, so I wasn't that slow; didn't have a great Constitution, but I had Heightened Constitution, so I had extra HP; and Heightened Strength, so I did more damage with physical weapons; I had Life Leech, so I could drain HP of creatures within a certain radius; Heightened Brain Talent, so I could figure out artifacts in less time, and got an extra save vs mental attacks; I forget what else, but those were the major ones.

That was quite the change from my 5th level D&D fighter, who had some good stats, but in one epic session, I think he missed in combat more often than his heavy warhorse did. F: *Whiff* H: *Bam* *Bam* F: *Swish* H: *Bam* *Chomp* I think I had a +1 to hit from ST, and a +1 long sword, and 3/2 attacks; the warhorse had hoof/hoof/bite attacks. "OK, I'll just sit back and let my warhorse kill everything."

Oh, I'm reminded of a friend's Gamma World character: a giant green eagle (had the photosynthesis mutation). He was kind of useless indoors (big wings, no hands). One time our party was exploring a bunker, and the green eagle was hopping around. Then we got to a big stair that had more space, and he was just taking to the air when we got ambushed by monsters coming out from doorways below. He got hit with a disintegrator ray for huge damage - more than the HP he had. So our GM says, "PAF! Green feathers everywhere!" And the rest of us cracked up at the imagery.


Computer RPGs, there was a dungeon crawling game on the Mac, I forget the name. You had one character and went down many levels, which weren't that large. You had a small grid you could see, which was part of the level, and text descriptions. Then there was Bard's Tale. I remember playing Wasteland on a friend's Apple IIe. Then one of the early Ultimas - III? A group of us would get together, one sitting at the computer to control the action - and we'd trade off from time to time - but each one of us had a character we would direct.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 11:51:10 AM

I remember Gamma World. I had the old second edition module Legions of Gold. I got it on a clearance sale at some hobby store for 50 cents and thought it would at least be cool reading. I did not have the second edition GW rule book, though, so would have no idea about how character gen went. But, the world seemed really, really cool. Too bad my crew was never into sci fi. I tried to push them towards that way, but if I pushed too hard, I would have no one to DM for. They wanted high fantasy. I always wanted a wild cross between gamma World and DnD. But that would have been TOO wild.

I did see a pdf of Gamma World 4th edition. If they would get rid of the stupid cards and make tech into actual statted weapons, it is an elegant and simple 4e system. Screw balance. A plasma rifle is supposed to be powerful. It is not a friggin per encounter card!!!!  Not a big fan of random character gen like in 4e, either. Was second edition Gamma World random generation? It must of been. Who in their crazy mind would come up with a big, green, leafy eagle guy?

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 12:17:33 PM

You were also mentioning about your fighter. Yeah. I felt that. Second edition fighters I always felt were underpowered. They were simple to play, so we always gave them to inexperienced players. Third edition made some improvements to the fighter with feats, but when you are constantly rolling and each additional attack goes 5 down each time, you effectively have only one attack that hits. Meanwhile your buddies the spellcasters are automatically hitting and are throwing multiple damage dice each time. You could say that is balanced because they have limited spell slots and spell resistance, but once you have scrolls, wands, spell storing items, etc all the fighter is around for is to carry the loot. Oops, Tenser's Floating Disc just called up and told me they got that covered too. And if you actually do need to get in someone's face and begin bashing, Mr. Druid just shapeshifts into a giant badass and takes care of it.

Fourth edition, for as much as the player base maligns it, actually made the fighter really fun with lots of battlefield control.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Lord Avalon on June 01, 2014, 01:38:14 PM

Quote from: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 11:51:10 AM

Was second edition Gamma World random generation? It must of been. Who in their crazy mind would come up with a big, green, leafy eagle guy?

Yeah, we rolled our stats, though did get to choose type: pure strain human, mutant human, mutant animal - if mutant, roll for number of physical and mental mutations, then roll for what mutation. Initially, bad mutations were mixed in with good; in later edition, not sure which, bad mutations were low rolls, and you got to add your CON, IIRC, so potentially less chance of bad. I wasn't playing CON bonus edition, I just got very lucky and rolled good mutations for all. That friend always seemed to have odd characters. He wanted to be an eagle, GM let him. But he rolled photosynthesis, so was green.  ;lol


Oh, there was also a time when we played Paranoia. (The Computer is your friend.) That was quite a change. We had some players who had Monty Haul D&D characters (including a Paladin who had way more than the permitted number of magic items, because he was carrying them "for the group" - we gave him some grief for that). It was kind of funny to see them get upset when their Paranoia character died. But life was cheap, and you have a bunch of clones. Also they were going from high level characters to Red level characters who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their lasers. (And what's a barn?) And it was interesting to have things that were treason to the Computer - like secret societies - and we all belonged to one. We'd go on missions for the Computer, but you'd have a secret society mission, potentially at odds with the Computer's. Mutations were treason, and we all had one. We had a character who got wounded, so a medbot was carrying him, and another character used his telekinesis to pull a pin on a grenade the wounded guy was carrying and blow him up. He didn't reveal himself or his mutation, but fulfilled his secret mission.


Anyone play Illuminati? That was another of our favorites. Also Flying Buffalo's Nuclear War/Escalation/Proliferation, where you try to nuke 'em till they glow, but survive with some population left after a final retaliation strike.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 01:54:18 PM

Yeah,I had to look that up online about Gamma World character gen. The 4e one (the latest), you random roll everything. They did away completely with player selected builds.  It seems you do get to select in the 3e and various 2e versions. (I am talking compatibility with whatever current version of DnD was out. Not edition of Gamma World. there seems to have been 7 editions of Gamma World)

The closest I got to Paranoia was a mafia style forum game based on paranoia.

Never played or heard of Illuminate. Google will be my friend.

Sounds like you had a group that liked different things. While my group was a bunch of cool cats, sometimes it got rough to play the same character or DM for the same character after 2 years. I really wished I could have convinced them to play other games or at least mix genres. But, when I tried to put Wookie Sith lords (Star Wars D20) riding psionic dinosaurs in a fantasy environment for a one shot, I almost had an uprising!

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Lord Avalon on June 01, 2014, 07:59:28 PM

Steve Jackson Games Illuminati (http://www.sjgames.com/illuminati/), if you didn't already find it (or for those who didn't look yet).

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 08:21:55 PM

Ah, the GURPS guys.

Never delved much into GURPS. It is a leveless system I think I could have dug. My turn off was the folks in Biloxi that represented them were so exclusive of newcomers. They said they were there to demonstate various SJ games, but in actuality it was just hem holding a gaming session they did at their regular table at the con.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Buster's Uncle on June 01, 2014, 08:31:23 PM

My first gaming group was - I got the D&D Basic Set for Christmas of 1980 (I think - it couldn't have been far off that year); played with Buster's Daddy and Mylochka, and a week later, took it to the New Year's Eve youth lock-in at church, set up a table in the storeroom in back, and taught all our friends how to play.

My first gaming group was at church.  I actually founded D&D in my hometown, and started out as a (bad) DM.  Local dungeon-heads soon came to extend a lot further than our church, but I started it...

We always played long single session games at any overnight youth activities - it took about a year for the Youth Director to ask "What are you guys always doing back there?"

"Worshipping the Devil" I shot back.

-Astonishingly, this was not a sophisticated or left-leaning congregation, but we never got any crap about it...  I find that hard to credit, too.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Lord Avalon on June 01, 2014, 08:33:40 PM

We tried GURPS briefly. I liked it more than my other friends, who liked heroic fantasy. In D&D characters can survive more damage (the average 12th level fighter can survive a fall from any height, IIRC); in GURPS you can get killled pretty quickly. Fantasy Hero wasn't quite as deadly. I didn't really like the classes in D&D - and back then multiclassing was more limited. I liked the skill-based games that were more open, flexible.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 01, 2014, 08:54:39 PM

In a brainstorming attempt with me and two other Rue de la Cours DMs in New Orleans, we debated classes. I was against classes. I said it was limiting.

Unfortunately, one of them said that you HAVE to have classes to give inexperienced players a direction and an archetype.

If it were me nowadays and I had willing audience, I would use a bastardized version of Gamma World 4e (7th) for everything. Reviews call it aptly "4e lite". But such things are considered blasphemy and if I was to go, would have to go with an already established and published ruleset. Folks are wary of homebrew nowadays that deviate too far of established norms. The whole "DM's world" thing. Then there is the RPG politics of Baton Rouge. These guys can not even agree on a con here, they fight so much. Look up Babelcon at some point. I was told in a gaming store "We do not let former DMs from New Orleans play here... you may steal the player base...." Talk unwarranted self importance.... damn. I have no intention of doing that. Have fun playing Blood Bowl, which is the only game we can agree on because the gaming store only make s money off of minis.

/anger off.

Title: Re: D&D & Gaming & Nostalgia
Post by: Green1 on June 02, 2014, 01:29:54 PM

Man.. that was a tirade on my local city's gaming atmosphere. Had to vent that out. Really miss sittng at a table with geeks and slurping on a brew. Lately the gaming culture in the Gulf coast South is basically expensive war game minis or GTFO. Even the minor con in Biloxi is like that now.

Unfortunately, some cities are not good spots. Now I know why that guy drove all the way from Hattiesburg to New Orleans each week to game. I also recall a guy that lived in Jackson, MS driving monthly to Atlanta to game.

I guess that is another thing related to what BU said about hooking up with folks to be the major pain. If you are not in the right city, you are not gaming. At least the old school type gaming.