Alpha Centauri 2

Other Games => Civilization Beyond Earth General Discussions => Topic started by: Dale on April 13, 2014, 08:57:42 PM

Title: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on April 13, 2014, 08:57:42 PM
What the title says.  I just can't get excited by this announcement, and the more I read, the less inclined I am to.

Whilst yes it's good to hear there's another game in the Civ franchise (though considering Civ5 sales numbers, did we ever think 2K would not fund another title from Firaxis?) there is much that I am reading that leads me to believe this game is not for me.  I am one of those people who are searching for two ultimate games: a REAL SimCity4 successor, and a REAL Civ4 successor.

So what do I not like the sound of in this new game?  I'll put it in one word: 1upt (okay not a word, but an abbreviated 4 word phrase  ;lol).

1upt killed Civ5 for me.  Truly and utterly killed it.  *poof*  And sadly, 1upt defines the design for literally every other part of the game.

"How so?" you ask.  Well, consider Panzer General, the 1upt game flaunted as the reason for it in Civ5.  In PG, England is 500 hexes.  In Civ5 England is 6-10 on an Earth map.  You cannot engage a tactical combat system such as 1upt on a high-level overview strategic map such as Civ.  It simply does not work.  I cannot tell you how many AI hacks had to be put in place to have an at least "better than [feminine washing]" combat AI.

The worst part is as I said above, 1upt defines the entire rest of the game's design.  It introduces what I've heard called the "strategic limiting system".  To cater for the strategic maps, the game design limits how many units you can build through yields, unit costs, constant wars, etc.  And since yields are a lot smaller, that means cities are a lot smaller.  This means the entire economy model of the game is totally skewed by 1upt.  Diplomacy is heavily affected to.  To help keep units down, the AI is encouraged to war much more often.  So we see lots more smaller wars in Civ5.  So the diplomacy model is also heavily skewed by 1upt.  The concept of unit transportation was totally removed from the game, because 1upt didn't work at all with the system.  Not only that, but because it's a "strategic game" the 1upt system was mashed by the fact of fitting it into a strategic game.  It is not a TRUE 1upt implementation that grognards are used to.

I could go on all day, but I won't.  You get the picture and I'm sure you're all smart enough to figure out other areas where 1upt dominates the game design.  The bottom line is, because of the 1upt system, Civ5 has become a strategic game limited by a tactical combat system, AND a tactical combat system watered down by a strategic game design.  It is trying very hard to be both a tactical AND strategic game, but as it stands is mediocre AT BEST, in either category.

Compared to other grand Empire strategy games such as Paradox games, Civ5 is mediocre at best.
Compared to other tactical combat games such as Slitherine or Matrix games, Civ5 is mediocre at best.

And sadly, they continue to rely on a system which for me, has totally killed the Civilization Experience.   :(
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 09:03:04 PM
I believe if you look around, you'll find a lot of us mixing skepticism with our excitement...

Notwithstanding the name of the forum, I've never really looked forward to a sequel - being a Star Trek fan has taught me several times over to know better than to get my hopes up much.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 13, 2014, 09:08:41 PM
We argued for weeks over the fact that 1upt was a "tactical gaming" experience whilst stacking or armies was a "strategic gaming" experience.
That's a good one.  Civilization.  Tactical gaming.  Well, I guess there's bombardment.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 09:26:42 PM
Dale was pretty much the point man for ciV at WPC - I watched his (enormous) enthusiasm get punctured and deflate.  -Just, I want anyone who doesn't know Dale to know how bad he got burnt, and that he has reason to be cynical this time.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: thorn on April 13, 2014, 10:51:25 PM
Is that the same Dale from Age of Discovery II? Now I AM starting to worry.  :-\
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 10:56:16 PM
Something to do w/ Colonization is his greatest claim to fame, I think, but AoD sounds right, too.

I mostly know him from his exensive work in talking crap.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on April 13, 2014, 11:14:17 PM
Is that the same Dale from Age of Discovery II? Now I AM starting to worry.  :-\

Yes, you are right.  :)

Ignore Buncle, he's just jealous of my dashing good looks.   :-*
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 13, 2014, 11:25:23 PM
I'm jealous of his hot wife.  He's ugly as sin.

And an expert in ugly sin.  The dashing part is to the fridge for more beer.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2014, 02:14:32 AM
Hey thorn - are you the same Thorn with the goat avatar I've seen around at WPC and 'poly?  -Do you want a goat avatar?

Dale, I've got a number of things vaguely insulting to Oz, if you're game - or if you had some serious request, I'd do you something you liked, even.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on April 14, 2014, 02:16:52 AM
Wait, Civ BE has the 1 UPT rule without vastly more tiles?

That settles it; there's no way it's going to be a serious competitor for SMAC/X.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2014, 02:19:12 AM
1upt, yes - and I expect you're right.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 14, 2014, 04:27:00 AM
I don't even know why they would do it again when it's probably the most criticized feature of Civ5.  Surely Firaxis isn't completely insane, they have some sanity.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on April 14, 2014, 04:36:49 AM
Civ5 sold more units than all other Civs combined.  It is still now, years later, once of the most played Steam games.  They made MILLIONS from DLC alone.

As a business venture, why would you change the formula?  Sure, it may piss off a hundred thousand hard cores, but when you gain a new million casuals why do the hard cores matter?
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dio on April 14, 2014, 04:45:53 AM
Civ5 sold more units than all other Civs combined.  It is still now, years later, once of the most played Steam games.  They made MILLIONS from DLC alone.

As a business venture, why would you change the formula?  Sure, it may piss off a hundred thousand hard cores, but when you gain a new million casuals why do the hard cores matter?

Here is another great example of corporate money makers speaking and ignoring the wants of long term gamers.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 14, 2014, 04:59:49 AM
Quote
As a business venture, why would you change the formula?  Sure, it may piss off a hundred thousand hard cores, but when you gain a new million casuals why do the hard cores matter?
I can't believe that casuals prefer 1UPT.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 14, 2014, 05:52:21 AM
When I read that V was loosely based upon Panzer General, I got that game. It's sort of like an automated Avalon Hill hex-grid tactical game, if you're old enough to have played one of those. Similar graphics.

P.G. is challenging because the maps have the A.I. in various  well-prepared defensive positions. You have to figure out how to weaken and flank it and beat it with what you've got.

The A.I just has to react when you get close. It doesn't have to deploy on the terrain or make a formation that won't get picked off as it moves.


In V it needs to. It needs to be able to go on the offensive, too.   It puts a lot of demands on an A.I.  Instead of moving a stack that includes the everything & the kitchen sink, it has to route 15 units independently and as a formation over terrain that has different rates of travel.


As for the shrunken map, you have immersion-breaking anomalies in V, such as longbows that can shoot across the English Channel, but nothing else can until missiles.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on April 14, 2014, 05:52:34 AM
Sadly, it's the way the franchise has gone.

Appeal to the sales figures, not to the art of design.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 14, 2014, 06:02:46 AM
Kind of figured it was fornicated when Carl Ichon took charge. Had to be about quarterly profits. Quicker release, lower costs, and the adoption of the DLC business model.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 14, 2014, 06:47:42 AM
When I read that V was loosely based upon Panzer General, I got that game.
I am sorry for your loss.  Civ IV wasn't a total loss for me, though I probably could have forgone it.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: thorn on April 14, 2014, 11:35:53 AM
Hey thorn - are you the same Thorn with the goat avatar I've seen around at WPC and 'poly?  -Do you want a goat avatar?

Dale, I've got a number of things vaguely insulting to Oz, if you're game - or if you had some serious request, I'd do you something you liked, even.

No, on Apolyton I'm DCMike. At WPC (and Civfanatics) I'm also registered as Thorn. No goat avatars anywhere.  ;lol
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on April 14, 2014, 01:04:02 PM
Civ5 sold more units than all other Civs combined.  It is still now, years later, once of the most played Steam games.  They made MILLIONS from DLC alone.

As a business venture, why would you change the formula?  Sure, it may piss off a hundred thousand hard cores, but when you gain a new million casuals why do the hard cores matter?

Because the hard cores are the ones who'll keep buying and keep the franchise going, casuals tend to dry up after a few games without hard cores.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 14, 2014, 01:22:22 PM
Because the hard cores are the ones who'll keep buying and keep the franchise going, casuals tend to dry up after a few games without hard cores.
That's a nice dream, but I don't think we are running out of idiots.  When they are done with Angry Birds (I don't know what that is) they will come to Civ 5.  I personally did not keep the Franchise going.  I became disenchanted with Civ IV (but not Alpha Centauri) and didn't buy Civ V when it sounded like it was going in a simplified direction.  I did the same thing with the Sim City series, which I rarely play anymore (Sim City 2000 on GOG).

Not that I wouldn't buy a new good Civ game after buying a new computer (I'm guessing even an upgrade would be insufficient), but they're clearly not aiming for me.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Geo on April 14, 2014, 02:09:55 PM
Because the hard cores are the ones who'll keep buying and keep the franchise going, casuals tend to dry up after a few games without hard cores.

You make it sound like there's no chance at all a number of casuals become 'hardcore'.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 14, 2014, 02:12:11 PM
You make it sound like there's no chance at all a number of casuals become 'hardcore'.
I was born hardcore.  It's part of who I am.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on April 14, 2014, 04:03:23 PM
That's a nice dream, but I don't think we are running out of idiots.

We're also not running out of competition for those idiots.  If you don't go after the hard-core gamers of your genre, you're competing with all games, rather than just the games in your genre.  It can work, and work amazingly well, but it's a lot more likely to be a bust, because there are that many more chances for someone else to steal your customers (or have gotten them and not let go).

But of course the successes get noticed and the failures don't, so that's why they go the path they do.

You make it sound like there's no chance at all a number of casuals become 'hardcore'.

If it's not a good game, there really isn't much chance of that.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Rusty Edge on April 14, 2014, 06:51:13 PM
When I read that V was loosely based upon Panzer General, I got that game.
I am sorry for your loss.  Civ IV wasn't a total loss for me, though I probably could have forgone it.

I pre-ordered the collector's edition of V. I enjoyed the soundtrack in my car. I liked the art book. I got well over 600 hours of gameplay before I removed it and STEAM from my computer. I got my money's worth.    The loss was  more in terms of an outgrown friendship.  Very sad.

But like you, I still have a wonderful game, a community, and mods to make it even better.


Even if this game is a disappointment, it should offer some new ideas to enhance AC.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: JarlWolf on April 14, 2014, 07:34:48 PM
I think, that while criticism is necessary in order to develop or review something; giving hatred without giving a proper chance is unfair.

I am going to wait until this thing is released, watch some no commentary gameplay video's, or at the very least, someone I can tolerate- and make my judgements there on whether or not I spend money for it. Who knows, maybe the AI is truly improved and we've all been duped into thinking it will be a joke. Maybe there is more ideologies and such they haven't properly explained or told us about that will be incorporated into the game, rather then just James Cameron Avatar version of  ;deidre; and a more militaristic  ;miriam; or the [progeny of unmarried parents] child of  ;zak; and  ;aki;.


I have my skepticism as much as anyone else, but I'll at least give it the chance of "I'll wait and see." Least my thoughts on subject.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2014, 07:46:24 PM
Agreed.  I think it's a mistake to just let ourselves get burned like last time, but also a mistake to assume that they can't make whatever work.  Cautious optimism/pessimism is called for, at least until we know a lot more.
Title: Hare hare Krishna
Post by: Geo on April 14, 2014, 07:48:52 PM
I have my skepticism as much as anyone else, but I'll at least give it the chance of "I'll wait and see." Least my thoughts on subject.

 ;b;
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2014, 10:23:27 PM
Hey Dale - not trolling, but I have to point out that you contradict yourself by starting the same thread in three of the four places I know of you could have - and I'd bet that I could find same at your BBR forum and other places, if I knew where to look...

Sounds sorta excited about not being excited to me. ;)
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on April 14, 2014, 10:29:31 PM
I posted it 3 times, in the 2 places I frequent most, and the 1 place I thought this game would get the most traction.

In terms of excitement, I've posted this one thread 3 times, and at WPC in the announcement thread a couple times to say "SMAC2 eh?", "1upt?  Failed already".

That doesn't sound excited to me.  If anything, it's curiosity until I found out about 1upt.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 14, 2014, 10:35:46 PM
Okydoke.  Your support is appreciated.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 15, 2014, 01:00:12 AM
Maybe there is more ideologies and such they haven't properly explained or told us about that will be incorporated into the game, rather then just James Cameron Avatar version of  ;deidre; and a more militaristic  ;miriam; or the [progeny of unmarried parents] child of  ;zak; and  ;aki;.
No.  They knew what they were doing.  They're going for an audience that doesn't need a social engineering aspect to the game, and in all probably it doesn't have one.  I doubt it even has a tech tree other than as an accessory to the affinities mini-game and the military.  Otherwise they would have talked about "all the cool stuff in it" like AOW3 did in previewing it's class-specific spells.  And they did.  They talked about gleaming robots and mind worms, and that's what you're going to get.


I have my skepticism as much as anyone else, but I'll at least give it the chance of "I'll wait and see." Least my thoughts on subject.
If you want a good response, give a good preview.  Not all this babble about how sci-fi themed it is.  I'm not five years old.  Would it scare off the five year olds to give, say, a seperate preview/interview that does not cater to five year olds?  If they can't give an interview that doesn't cater to five year olds it's because they don't have one to give. 

Now if I'm wrong on these points, it is because they are very stupid, and not me - can't imagine how people who aren't simpletons will react.  So get on ye nerdy website where you won't scare the five year olds and talk about things other than mind worms.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Green1 on April 29, 2014, 05:38:47 PM
At urging... my 2 EC...

I, unfortunately, will have to agree with Dale on some points. BE is not going to be Alpha Centauri : Alien Crossfire HD edition. I think it sounds more like the descriptions I have read about Pandora : First Contact. From what I have read, Pandora lacks the diplomacy game of SMAX and is much more wargamerish with little for builder types or diplo gamers. Not that a villain like me cares for such petty things due to my playstyle, but if everyone is aggressive, being an aggressor is not as special.

That said, some of these features in BE I have read about sound like what I would do if I designed an Alpha Centauri 2. Being able to choose your starting expedition and the addition of a complete orbital layer sounds like the right thing to do.

Do not let 1upt make you cringe. Yoyu are only cringing due to Civ Vs poor implementation. If AI is improved and can handle it, it will be a much better experience than building stacks of death. 1UPT is actually much older than SoD. Panzer General, as previously mentioned, had it along with many other earlier classic war games.

Till then, I am having a blast with Age of Wonders 3. Apologize about my ducking out, but it needed to be done. Now that life has stabilized a bit, me and my alter egos on other forums will be more verbose.

peace
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Green1 on April 29, 2014, 05:44:16 PM
Oh... and one more thing.

this is a Firaxis title. Most of these titles are fairly moddable.

You know the feelings towards Alpha Centauri and the legions of modders  on Civ Fanatics who will JUMP on adding our friends Miriam, Zak, and crew....

take this as you may.....
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on April 30, 2014, 12:45:41 AM
Do not let 1upt make you cringe. Yoyu are only cringing due to Civ Vs poor implementation. If AI is improved and can handle it, it will be a much better experience than building stacks of death.
I never had stacks of death in Alpha Centauri.  Artillery makes it a poor idea in Alpha Centauri.  If you lose one unit in Alpha Centauri, it can effect the health of others, so you make limited use of stacking.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Green1 on May 06, 2014, 03:32:14 AM
Do not let 1upt make you cringe. Yoyu are only cringing due to Civ Vs poor implementation. If AI is improved and can handle it, it will be a much better experience than building stacks of death.
I never had stacks of death in Alpha Centauri.  Artillery makes it a poor idea in Alpha Centauri.  If you lose one unit in Alpha Centauri, it can effect the health of others, so you make limited use of stacking.

Very underutilized by many gamers, too. The artillery-as-SOD-destroyer carried even over in the Civ series till Civ 4, which was the last to use stacked units.

Still,  may be in the minority but I kind of welcome this move towards 1UPT. It reminds me of the old tactics battles I had when I was a kid. Now, if only they could come with an AI capable of handling it and a strategic map with more hexes on it so as not to get bogged down. I think you should be able to fit more than one battalion of infantry on a hex that represents 100 kilometers or more. Make each hex represent less kilometers.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on May 06, 2014, 03:44:45 AM
Personally, my main reason for not being all that excited is that while the purity/supremacy/harmony triad is interesting, it's not enough to make for a true successor to SMAC.   ;deidre; isn't just about harmony with Planet; it fits in with, and is motivated by, her peaceful personality and concern for others (which is why, when the time comes, she is fully willing to interfere with nature and leave humanity's mark on this once-pristine world in order to save Planet from itself.)  BE may do the tactical aspect well, and it may do it poorly, but I don't think it can do as well as SMAC where the latter shines brightest.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Green1 on May 06, 2014, 04:16:38 AM
Personally, my main reason for not being all that excited is that while the purity/supremacy/harmony triad is interesting, it's not enough to make for a true successor to SMAC.   ;deidre; isn't just about harmony with Planet; it fits in with, and is motivated by, her peaceful personality and concern for others (which is why, when the time comes, she is fully willing to interfere with nature and leave humanity's mark on this once-pristine world in order to save Planet from itself.)  BE may do the tactical aspect well, and it may do it poorly, but I don't think it can do as well as SMAC where the latter shines brightest.

There is ONE hope, though, Yitzi and reason your interest should at least be tweaked. Unlike Pandora, Beyond Earth is a Firaxis game. Now, I am no fanboy, but I do notice things. Most Firaxis games with the exception of some of the console offerings have a huge fan base and tend to be very moddable. Many titles continue to be modded or forked for years. You yourself are a testament to this fact. For better or for worse, most 4x titles by other development houses with a few notable exceptions become lost and eventually abandonware after a decade.

Someone or an entire group of folks is going to mod in SMAX concepts in a way that will make the Civ 4:Planetfall mod look like a Commodore 64 game in comparison. This mod will be the "Fall from Haven" of BE if done right. Folks will play.

And, unlike  mod for an aging game, you will have decent MP support instead of slow PBEM riddled with bugs, a LARGE user base, and more modern tools that allow fro really good LPs and AARs.

But.. I also think the tactical aspects AND AI will make or break this game and are not to be ignored. Unlike Pandora, I also think the empire building aspect is pretty much mandatory in a Firaxis title as that is what the consumer expects.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on May 06, 2014, 04:50:22 AM
There is ONE hope, though, Yitzi and reason your interest should at least be tweaked. Unlike Pandora, Beyond Earth is a Firaxis game. Now, I am no fanboy, but I do notice things. Most Firaxis games with the exception of some of the console offerings have a huge fan base and tend to be very moddable. Many titles continue to be modded or forked for years. You yourself are a testament to this fact. For better or for worse, most 4x titles by other development houses with a few notable exceptions become lost and eventually abandonware after a decade.

Someone or an entire group of folks is going to mod in SMAX concepts in a way that will make the Civ 4:Planetfall mod look like a Commodore 64 game in comparison. This mod will be the "Fall from Haven" of BE if done right. Folks will play.

Yes, modding probably could be used to make that work...at least if the game allows factions in more detail than just the basic triad.

Quote
But.. I also think the tactical aspects AND AI will make or break this game and are not to be ignored. Unlike Pandora, I also think the empire building aspect is pretty much mandatory in a Firaxis title as that is what the consumer expects.

True; part of what makes SMAC/X so good is that it combines strong gameplay with a good theme/narrative.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Dale on May 17, 2014, 10:59:06 PM
I'm going to take the "wait and see" position.

Whilst I'm motivated enough about the game to be curious, I'm not at the level I'm chasing information about it.  I very much doubt I'll be motivated to pre-order, or chase a alpha/beta position, or even day 1 it.  I'm going to wait to see what a few trusted people say about the game, then weigh up my options then.

After Civ5, I'm doubtful of the mods too.  Civ5 made it too easy to make a mod, and the quality got lost in the chaff because of it.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 17, 2014, 11:11:59 PM
Yah; I'm not really the market for anything being a practicing miser and not having enough time to play AC as it is, so not personally interested in BE in the first place, but wait-and-see seems wisest, and we'll certainly build it in hopes they come (and chat), with our enthusiastic support.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on May 17, 2014, 11:47:47 PM
I'm not at the level I'm chasing information about it.
That's good, there isn't any being given.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Spaced Cowboy on May 18, 2014, 10:01:08 PM
Totally agree with Dale on the 1UPT.

Still playing CIV4 as a result.

Just discovered some really cool mods for 4.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 18, 2014, 10:25:12 PM
Where?  Link(s)?
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Unorthodox on May 18, 2014, 11:42:30 PM
1UPT can be done well.  Civ didn't, that doesn't mean the whole idea is bad.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on May 19, 2014, 12:59:53 AM
I don't think it's a good fit.  It isn't even necessary if the game has artillery or if there is collateral damage.  The question of 1UPT would never be raised with the Alpha Centauri features/ruleset - if you want to  stack, go ahead, but don't be surprised when that stack ends up crippled.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Spaced Cowboy on May 19, 2014, 02:41:08 AM
Just Well known ones like Dune wars, Fall from Heaven 2, Planetfall, and Realism Invictcus
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Spaced Cowboy on May 21, 2014, 01:45:11 AM
Agree, if you want to limit stacking...go ahead...just not 1UPT.

Played a game in the 90's named Red Lightening that was 3UPT, not as bad.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on May 21, 2014, 03:34:55 AM
Chess has 1UPT and that works pretty well...

1UPT can work well...but you have to design the game around it, and 4X games generally don't lend themselves to that.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on May 21, 2014, 03:51:35 AM
Chess has 1UPT and that works pretty well...
Alpha Centauri is not a representative of chess.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 21, 2014, 03:52:34 AM
Someday I'll have to make an AC chess set...
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on May 21, 2014, 03:54:22 AM
Scout patrol, synthemetal, laser, recon rover...
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Yitzi on May 21, 2014, 04:23:32 AM
Chess has 1UPT and that works pretty well...
Alpha Centauri is not a representative of chess.

True.  But chess still shows that 1UPT is not the problem; it's using 1UPT in a game that isn't designed for it (such as Alpha Centauri) that's the problem.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Spaced Cowboy on May 22, 2014, 01:13:36 AM
1UPT sort of worked in Warlock, but still had issues trying to maneuver around cities and whatnot.

1UPT does not represent a war game very well.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Green1 on May 22, 2014, 08:44:19 PM
1UPT sort of worked in Warlock, but still had issues trying to maneuver around cities and whatnot.

1UPT does not represent a war game very well.

1UPT seems to work better for tactical and operational war games. The strategic layer it sometimes does not make sense because it is hard to believe 1 tank battalion takes up 20-50 square KM.

Then again, what to do? Some folks would not like zooming into an operational or tactical layer each fight for something like a Civ-like. The only solution I see would be increasing number of tiles. But, that would crush some of the lower end laptops using modern graphics.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: BlaneckW on May 24, 2014, 05:45:22 PM
I very much doubt there is need for a tactical layer in a Civ game beyond what AC did.  But then, all of the Civ games were a step down from AC in the combat aspect.
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 24, 2014, 05:47:20 PM
A SMACX fan?  On my forum?

 :o
Title: Re: Not excited...... not one bit
Post by: Nikolai on May 27, 2014, 12:04:37 AM
A SMACX fan?  On my forum?

 :o

Svensgaard ftw!
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Language files: 4: index+Modifications.english (default), TopicRating/.english (default), PortaMx/PortaMx.english (default), OharaYTEmbed.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 31 - 840KB. (show)
Queries used: 14.

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