Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Command Nexus => Topic started by: Mart on October 21, 2015, 02:30:14 PM

Title: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on October 21, 2015, 02:30:14 PM
This is turn tracking thread for Law&Faith pbem game. Head-to-head of Misotu and Kirov. Setup thread:
Link (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=16999.0)

Factions:
PK - Misotu
Believers - Kirov

AI:
Gaians
Morganites
University
Drones
Data Angels

Yitzi patch 3.4
Also, the game uses "standard SMAX" alphax.txt, attached.

Large map, everything average, but additionally designed
4 victory conditions, except cooperative.
Blind research
No spoils of war
No random events.

AI get some scenario settings to help their defensive abilities.
Additional units, so human players start with 3 colony pods, 3 scouts, 2 formers.
AI get more units.
Start civ4-style, units are scattered on the landing site.
The Cloudbase Academy is set to destroyed.

Standard mp rules, unless agreed on changes by all sides.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 21, 2015, 03:59:20 PM
I see I go first but I'm just finishing a bottle of cava in the sun over here so possibly not at my sharpest  :D  Will play tomorrow, for sure.

Really looking forward to playing from the very first turn in an MP game, heh.

Thanks very much for setting this up for us Mart.   :danc:

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 22, 2015, 12:00:06 PM
So the Peacekeepers under the just and noble Sister Misotu have made Planetfall. The turn passes to the (hopefully) peaceful and contemplative Brother Kirov of the Believers.

(You will get a "reload" message, but it's false. In my haste to get started I completely forgot to get the password from my PMs and for some reason I can't switch to windows when the game is running. So had to close SMAX, but I didn't load the game itself, never got further than the "enter password" screen. Apologies, won't happen again. I didn't recall that doing this would produce a reload message or I would have checked the password using my Kindle!)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2015, 12:03:12 PM
Sister Misotu, good luck with all your endeavours and don't you worry about my peacefulness - as you long as you're not naughty, we're gold.

Mart, many thanks again and can you fast forward a few turns to make sure that I don't get any tech within 10 turns? I have a progress bar and I'm not sure how this Miriam penalty displays in-game.

Misotu, please put the Mission Year at the end of our saves, this will make the game count them automatically.

Have fun!  :) ;b;

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 23, 2015, 12:13:55 PM
Peace in Our Time!  The Peacekeepers and Believers will share the benefits of Planet equally in Perpetuity  :D

(Naming convention implemented too).
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on October 23, 2015, 01:41:21 PM
The progress bar on F2 should stay like that till 2109, On 2110, you should see the first allocation to research.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2015, 09:26:14 PM
Sorry, I expected thread notification, I didn't know it's not automatic to follow a thread.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2015, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: Misotu on October 23, 2015, 12:13:55 PM
Peace in Our Time!  The Peacekeepers and Believers will share the benefits of Planet equally in Perpetuity  :D

Amen, of course! Amen, indeed.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 26, 2015, 08:18:55 AM
I've downloaded the game a couple of times now but each time I'm getting an "error reading file" message. Could you upload it again Kirov? I don't seem to be able to get a good file download from the current attachment ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 26, 2015, 11:31:03 AM
The rain has stopped and suddenly the file downloaded fine  ::)

Peacekeeper efforts have suffered a serious blow as precious pods close to our bases yield only hideous wriggly native life forms and not the extra resources for which we had hoped. Our pointy sticks perform poorly against these attackers and morale is at an all-time low since the fabled "monolith" of which we have heard remains just that. A fable.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 26, 2015, 05:15:40 PM
I assure you, monoliths are real, I'm sitting on one myself. But now I too found only a can of worms, so there is that. Someone must have sabotaged supply pods while onboard Unity and we'll need to find out who. ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 26, 2015, 06:00:49 PM
Our informers are whispering that the Believers somehow had a hand in sabotaging our pods, using the Power of Prayer. But we trust our new BFF Believer mates and won't heed the rumours. One wriggly thing died a horrible death. But it doesn't make up for the lack of a monolith.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 26, 2015, 06:08:41 PM
If only I was there to pop some pods, we'd soon find a nice monolith for you.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 26, 2015, 06:16:21 PM
I know you will take it in the correct spirit when I say that we are very, very glad indeed that you are not here to pop our pods for us. We're rather hoping that you're on the other side of Planet.   :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 26, 2015, 06:25:55 PM
You're just being shy, no need for that.

I'm going out so no hurry!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 26, 2015, 06:38:35 PM
No no, not shy. We just haven't had time yet to prepare the welcome so close an Ally deserves.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 12:11:07 AM
A slice of bread and a mug of water, that's all a good Believer needs. We just need to figure out how those 'boats' work and we're ready to go.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 09:47:32 AM
The Peacekeepers announce that they have re-prioritised their research efforts towards "Doctrine Oven", a fundamental breadmaking technology.

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 11:05:56 AM
Believer researchers have finally figured out all the buttons on the remote.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 11:26:20 AM
According to the power graph, Peacekeeper might is "feeble". We are sad   :(
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 11:34:57 AM
Sister, the feeble shall inherit the Planet. Don't lose your faith.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 12:02:53 PM
The Believers really are our BFF. Thank you for your uplifting words Brother.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 12:13:38 PM
That's what the Lord tells us to do, frankly I'm quite surprised myself. Maybe he's up to something?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
Putting aside our feebleness, we are very proud of our nice, shiny nobility. The Lord would approve, I'm sure   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 01:32:03 PM
Sadly, integrity deteriorates as we sin. But we'll find the naughtiest faction and make an example of it.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 02:30:53 PM
"Sin", Brother Kirov? Wash your mouth out with soap!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 03:26:55 PM
Washing with soap is sinful like hell.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 03:34:15 PM
 :D  We never wash.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 04:12:37 PM
Research log, MY 2112: Our bishops put the age of the Planet at 6800 years old, more than 200 years after the Earth! Was it the time of the Deluge? Was the Planet created with us in mind? Our researchers pray in shifts to find out.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 04:31:37 PM
Only 6800 years old you say Brother? My, how fascinating! (muffled - and short - cries of protest are briefly heard from researchers in the sombre reading rooms of UN Headquarters) We certainly look to our friends the Believers for the very latest in cutting-edge research.

(You will get a reload message but it's false again - I only got as far as the password screen and then stupidly quit because I saw "Sister Mxxxxx and thought I'd loaded the Believers' turn in error.   ::)  These things happen at my age. Sorry, but truthfully I didn't load the game twice.)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 04:44:03 PM
Don't worry about it, these things happen every now and then, playing SMAC MP requires a great assumption of trust anyway.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 05:03:37 PM
 :-[  It was still dumb.   Anyway, in other news ...

Peacekeeper scientists welcomed reports that the fabled "monolith" has finally been located, though admittedly not within a base radius. They won't get to see it for a while - the area has been "secured" by our military and access is currently restricted.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 05:13:44 PM
Hm, seems I was more lucky with supply pods. Or was it Providence? Anyway, our first tech has finally arrived, much to everyone's awe. Did you see that Zak finished his after 2 years?! If he hadn't violated every possible ethical principle on the way, I'm the Cinderella.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 05:26:32 PM
Put it this way: the chirpy young attache who suggested that "we can never have too much survey data" has been shipped out to study the fungus. Permanently.

I did see Zak's result. There is something sinister behind that ... our investigators are looking into it. They've called it "Project Mart". Goodness only knows why.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 05:38:35 PM
Now that's ominous. We need to get to the bottom of this. But it's very hard to make a canoe out of fungus, I need to wait for better materials.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
It's very quiet over here. We usually expect to see the Spartans arrive with a battle ogre by now ...

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 05:59:48 PM
Somehow I still can't see the powergraph so i don't even know who the others are. But don't worry, one way or another, they'll find their way to the Lord.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 06:14:32 PM
I bet they can't wait. To find their way to Lord, I mean. I know we're looking forward to it. Although we need a bit more time to make confession and mend our evil ways of course. Probably a couple of hundred years should do the trick.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 06:31:50 PM
Now, somebody racked up her sin count! Fortunately for you, our exorcists boast a success ratio of 100%, although not everyone made it.

In other news, Zak discovered the Secrets of the Human Brain, so you'll probably want to dust off that tin foil hat.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 06:46:11 PM
What I want to know is where he gets those human brains.  ;brainhurts  The hat is a good idea. It won't look very fetching, but needs must.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 06:57:13 PM
Well, that's a casus belli if I've ever had one. I think we've got a winner for the first exorcism on the Planet.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 07:05:38 PM
As long as it's not me I don't really .... ahem. Hem hem.  A good plan Brother. But I wonder whether perhaps diplomatic pressure and, if absolutely necessary, a multinational peacekeeping operation might be more the thing that's required here?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 07:24:25 PM
Well, there's a high chance that we're now working on the boats. We'll soon find out what our Zak is up to, although I doubt he'll cooperate.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 07:37:57 PM
Our researchers' "high chance" of working on anything always turns out to have been working on something else entirely, generally something considerably less useful. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 07:49:35 PM
I don't think there's any other 'Explore' option for me to draw.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on October 27, 2015, 07:59:11 PM
The power graph shows from 2120. This game is prepared in a way, that monuments are visible, so maybe this is similarity to singleplayer here.
I guess the story interludes should show too, if I recall.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 08:08:18 PM
We are not doing well on the power graph, friend Believer. Zak the Heretic is doing very well indeed. It's his ungodly ways. And he has no respect for the UN. None at all.

If I were on a green tech I'd be hoping for flex, but I would expect to get either Progenitor Psych or Ethical Calc. It always turns out that way. At some point I'm going to have to ask the Chief Researcher why his team insist on the blindfolds. They keep bumping into stuff and spilling their coffee, quite apart from anything else.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 08:38:46 PM
Darn, I completely forgot about ProgPsych, mainly because I never pick it up normally.

Mart, do we play with Spoils on?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on October 27, 2015, 08:56:28 PM
Spoils of War (steal tech when conquer base) is OFF
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 08:57:09 PM
I never get a chance to forget about it, unfortunately. It always pops up and reminds me, heh. Well, our fingers are certainly crossed (so to speak) over here dear Brother  :innocent look:

Spoils are off according to Mart's original post here. I checked  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 09:07:44 PM
Well, seems I'm gold if it's Flex, royally screwed if Prog. Oh, well.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 09:18:35 PM
Just a minor setback. I should know. I've already had one miss   :(
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 09:29:12 PM
Yea, I feel for you, but the truth is I'm much more desperate to... establish embassies. You know, so that we can hold a Council meeting and elect you the Governor.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 09:49:32 PM
That would be great. I would like to be Governor   :danc:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 09:52:03 PM
BTW, do you get the notifications in this game? My memory on this is really vague but there are announcements (like Uni getting SotHB and wonders kicking off) which not everyone gets. I've started the HGP just for fun, but you probably already know   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 09:54:13 PM
I get the notifications, if that DA just started the WP. I think it depends on who is between us, so in this case, I see all the announcement before your turn (i.e. all of them). Will post.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 10:11:08 PM
Our researchers do their best, but we're not holding our breath nowadays ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 10:16:37 PM
Ahoy! God willing, anything is possible.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 10:34:37 PM
That's it. I'm taking up a Life of Prayer. Nothing can be relied on in this world, not even blind research.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 10:40:15 PM
There is such wisdom in your words; when we meet, you'll be Born Again.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 10:53:18 PM
Well, shiver me timbers. I didn't expect the Nunnery to produce results quite that quickly   :)  We'll meet on the high seas, my BFF.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 10:58:00 PM
Avast! By the way, I started the WP last turn.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 11:06:16 PM
Believing Boreholes on their way then?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 11:22:32 PM
Only if He allows, Sister. Only if He allows.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 11:36:07 PM
We have met Others. They are not all friendly   :(  Is it busy round your way?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 27, 2015, 11:45:43 PM
Unfortunately, it's not. Only some worms.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 27, 2015, 11:53:05 PM
Good to know, Brother, good to know. Just think what an impact the True Faith will have when it is finally encountered!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 12:07:16 AM
If only everyone shared your enthusiasm, Sister, we would have never left the Earth in the first place.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 12:17:43 AM
True. Unfortunately our home world is already buried. But this new place seems nice, especially if you like pink.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 12:28:29 AM
If only we learnt our sad lesson - everything bad is the Mormons' fault.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 12:37:20 AM
Possibly, possibly. Or it could be that people should have jolly well paid attention to the UN. Still, once we get me elected here we can put all that right. My Righteous Peacekeeping and your Life of Worship will co-exist nicely Brother.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 12:49:20 AM
Well, I guess sooner or later you expected the question, how the hell can you hold office for several centuries with the free elections in? Usually such support requires some shady 'help'.

Also, the Drones started some project.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 12:58:12 AM
All that's required is enthusiastic popular support, which is the natural consequence of intelligent policies based on justice and equality. Nothing shady about that is there?  :danc:

PS  The Drones' project is also the WP. Popular one, isn't it?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 01:05:27 AM
Well, that surely sounds convincing. I think I heard it somewhere on Earth... nah, my mistake. ;)

The rush to WP is tense and I just hope I don't get to waste all those minerals.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 01:19:41 AM
We are rooting for you Brother.  :)


 :-[  I loaded the new turn but it gave me the last turn. Precisely the end of the last turn - all my units had already moved and the build queues were just as they were last turn. I have no idea why. So I re-downloaded and did it again and it worked fine. I'm sorry - I know it looks bad. I've never had so many "reloads". The graphics were a little odd this time too, but playable.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 01:26:09 AM
Some others had more reloads and often even failed to provide explanations, so I kinda got used to it (although explanations are sure welcome). So really don't worry. :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 01:27:21 AM
I thought I'd stay longer, but nah, this was my last turn, so take care!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 01:43:39 AM
It's very late here too   :)  But it was really good to play through quite a few turns, especially these early ones. Over to you.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on October 28, 2015, 02:23:04 AM
Rarely one can see pbem with so many turns in a single day.
Interesting to see the game developing, for me, this is something about AI, how they perform given their initial state.

Misotu,
Depending on your internet connection, sometimes files do not get downloaded ok. TCP/IP, that our browsers/comp use should be generally reliable, but not always. It is different when someone has fiber-optic connection, and different when e.g. wireless. So maybe this is why sometimes your downloaded files turn out to be corrupted.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 08:55:14 AM
Hi Mart

It's playing very nicely at the moment - the AI is not supine but no-one has arrived with recon rovers and a battle ogre   :)  It's a great map too, from what I've seen so far, and thank you again for putting in so much effort for us. Special named landmarks and everything - a treat.

I'm sure you're right about the connection, I never used to have these difficulties when the game was first out and I was using dial-up internet via the phone line (remember those days? ;lol). Some of the files do really bizarre things that I've never experienced before. Mr Misotu and I are travelling between the UK, Spain and Portugal for a few years - we stay on camp sites so we are always on a wifi connection and sometimes the source is quite far away from us. It's very badly affected by heavy rain, I know that! Last night I had a lot of corrupted files that wouldn't load at all, but at least I don't get reload messages for all those otherwise I think I'd die of embarrassment. These files are so tiny too, so I assume it'll be worse when the files are a bit larger but I just need to be careful and probably not try to play any file that takes suspiciously long to download.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 09:44:42 AM
The six conclusions our researchers have arrived at so far:

1) The Planet is a round sphere, like a ball but really big.

2) However, you don't fall from underneath it thanks to the 'gravity'.

3) The age of the Planet is estimated at 6830 years, +/12 years (counting from 2135 AD).

4) The Planet looks Intelligently Designed, further disproving the theory of evolution; also, no stupid fossils.

5) However, we have failed to find bananas yet, so the above may require a certain leap of faith.

6) But still, anyway - checkmate, atheists!

You may want to run it through your R&D. Contrary to widespread belief, we are not against sharing knowledge. When we meet, we can even exchange floppy discs with our respective findings.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 10:08:07 AM
Intelligent design is not something our researchers have prioritised to date but they look forward to receiving the floppy disk Brother. It may be ... em ... challenging finding a suitable drive to access its contents. We await your ruling on the matter but (more muffled protests from the Reading Rooms) we assume that "memory sticks" are the Work of the Devil?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 10:34:16 AM
Oh, ID is the cornerstone of alternative sciences, you're gonna love it. To put it very simply, it claims that dinosaurs didn't exist because bananas fit into human hands. But there's really more to it.

I don't believe we have anything compatible with 'memory sticks', but I'll need to check.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 10:49:46 AM
We sit at the feet of your researchers in awe, Brother. To make the logical leap from bananas to Deity is ... (muffled shouts) ... quite breathtaking. If you'll excuse me, we seem to have a bit of a brawl breaking out in the Reading Rooms ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 11:04:59 AM
The beauty of it all is, alternative sciences can be studied without ever leaving your church, which allows you to get done much more than with atheist sciences. And thanks for the compliment!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
It seems we have a minor rebellion here in UN HQ. A minor faction which - incredibly - seems to object to our proposal to throw out the computers and install altars. Never fear, Law will prevail.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 12:29:09 PM
As it always does!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 12:43:09 PM
Calm appears to reign once more in the Reading Rooms, although there is still a great deal of muttering. Deprived of their computers, our researchers have begun sifting through ancient documents scribed by the revered Yitzi. They report that Datalink writings relating to a "creche" for children suggest that the effects of this installation on the base square with regard to combat and morale are bugged. There is, apparently, a link to an "Advanced Morale" document - but this link produces only a list of advanced concepts, none of which seems to relate to morale.

We wonder whether Believer researchers have any insights to share regarding this?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 01:02:42 PM
I believe that the Creches of yesteryear were full of daemons; they provided different bonuses or even penalties depending on the current morale of your army (negative morale earned bonuses while positive - penalties). That for units attacking from inside a Creche base, if I remember correctly. Additionally, a Creche just granted one morale level to any units supported from that base. I think all of this should now be fixed and brought in line with the So You Landed on Chiron manual.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 01:15:46 PM
Thank you for your insights, Brother Kirov. Foreign relations are proving troublesome. We are outgoing, gregarious and seek only a peaceful life for all under the benign UN umbrella. And yet we find other Leaders "seething" when we've only just met.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 01:32:51 PM
They will all be submissive before it's all said and done.

 
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 02:38:53 PM
Now that's the sort of statement that gets my No-Stars Pointy-Stick Military very worried you see ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 02:49:29 PM
I just wanted to cheer you up!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
Well of course *I* know that, for we have Perfect Trust. But my General is a suspicious type. And there is a worrying rumble in the Reading Rooms ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 03:35:46 PM
That's hardly a problem - we'll make them all submissive, too.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 04:00:21 PM
They're not looking very submissive at the moment ... trouble is brewing, I can feel it.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 04:28:57 PM
Don't you have a separate island for yourself?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 04:59:05 PM
Yes, I do have my own island, it's not other factions I'm worried about. It's my own troops.

In an emergency Peacekeeper press briefing this morning, an aide confirmed that an attempted coup at UN HQ was thwarted in the early hours. “Disgruntled military units joined disaffected researchers to seize temporary control of production facilities and energy reserves, enabling them to rush the current Top Secret Project under way at the city. More concerning is the fact that rebel hackers managed to change the priorities set by our Noble Leader, redirecting efforts to the Weather Paradigm.” Noble Leader Sister Misotu was unavailable for comment, but is reported to have dismissed military claims that allowing the Believer faction to seize control of this project would lead to the creation of an Unstoppable Fundamentalist War Machine, replete with energy and minerals and with land bridge capabilities for blitz-style invasions of neighbouring territories.

I hope this won't affect our cordial relations Brother Kirov. The rebels have been crushed (although I did have to take the altars out of the research facilities temporarily). I'm really keen on a Life of Prayer, but I must confess the thought of meeting your Inquisitors is a little chilling ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 05:13:09 PM
Well, we do what we have to do. Congratulations about the WP! Maybe the mutineers did you a favour. Still, we need to take some measures so that it won't happen again!

And I really don't understand why you're afraid of the Inquisition. The innocents have nothing to fear.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 05:34:52 PM
I'm more innocent than you can possibly imagine. Innocent, my middle name. Misotu Innocent Peacekeeper.

Sorry about the WP but ... let's call it the Yabcok Effect   :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 05:46:24 PM
Scene: The Council Chamber at UNHQ. In the top chair, Sister Misotu wearing an extremely chic tin foil hat.

"Look you lot, I ordered the HGP, an egalitarian happy thing that would make people multiply and vote for us. Our research facilities are the envy of the planet. We have cordial relations with the dangerously fanatical Brother Kirov. And what do you do? You rebel and do the one thing guaranteed to hack him off. We are now numero uno on his secret list of Exorcism Targets. What do you have to say for yourselves, you miserable ingrates?"

General NoStar Pointystick: We need something better than sticks and a promise of UN Utopia. Our lads can barely cope with fledgling worms right now. The last thing we need is a load of fanatic chaos rover suicide units coming at us over a land bridge. With all due respect, Noble Leader, your military skills suck big time.

Researcher Propshaft: We don't see the link between bananas and godhead. The altars are rubbish. We want our computers back. Or else we'll retire somewhere rural and write games software.

Ms Spindoctor:  The people need food and facilities. We were terraforming too slowly. Their babies are teeny and infrequent. Think of the votes!

Ho hum ...

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 05:54:56 PM
Sure it's busy at your Council meetings. And one thing is true, the Weather Paradigm can be a powerful tool in the right hands. Remember, with great power comes great responsibility!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 06:13:25 PM
We think the WP is safe in our hands, Brother Kirov. We intend only peace and stability for Planet, we will not misuse its powers.

Our researchers are currently focusing on Doctrine Innocence, an Inquisitor-Deflecting tech. We hope.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 06:46:13 PM
You seem uneasy. When we finally meet, you'll see I gain in face-to-face interactions.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 07:12:16 PM
I've heard that's the case. People who have met you say you are personable, great company, and above all *forgiving*.

I really hope they're right.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 07:29:23 PM
But you'll leave the HGP for me, right? Please?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 07:44:58 PM
Of course Brother Kirov. As a mark of the eternal friendship between Law and Faith, we give you our solemn word that we will make no attempt on the HGP.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 07:55:51 PM
Well, it's pending completion anyway. That was a good turn. Praise the Lord!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 08:09:10 PM
This was not a good couple of turns for us. Blind research has scored yet another miss. Our researchers are starting to speak fondly of the Altar Days ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 08:24:29 PM
Yep, seems the blind is always finding some crap you didn't even know you could research. Well, at least it's much more fun than the IA beeline.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 08:36:09 PM
It is. But sometimes ...  :)

Congrats on the HGP by the way.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 08:50:38 PM
Well, DA called the election.

As you can see, Zak is the front runner. Even with my votes, you're not going to win. You need either Dee or Domai on your side. Why don't you check your previous turn to consider your current relations with them? And what you can offer me, techwise. The very first thing I'd demand is Pact and only then I'd expect the normal price for voting. I guess we can now check what we can sell to each other.

Although I'd perfectly understand if you didn't want to risk losing due to a lack of agreement with Dee or Domai. Zak seems to have secured some massive backing now. Maybe next time?

My turn is opened in the background until you decide.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 08:56:19 PM
Aha, ok, thanks for this. I haven't done this in a long while. I can't get it this time, whatever happens I don't think, given Zak's position, so you can carry on.

I might try bribing the AI, just to see what they want - I am allowed to do this in MP, right? Just not bribing human players through this screen because the AI decides for them?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 08:59:04 PM
Yes, but with no deal between us, I'm gonna vote for Zak, so bribing the two won't get you much. You okay with that? I hope you understand... ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 09:03:48 PM
Funnily enough, I just opened the reply screen to say "Of course, you'll vote for Zak. I would in your shoes."

Heh heh
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 09:04:36 PM
I reread your post and you wanted to continue anyway, so here it is.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 09:23:59 PM
Peacekeeper ambassadors returned empty-handed from talks with various factions. The sums demanded were far beyond the reach of a poor faction struggling to make ends meet on a hostile planet.

Zak elected   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 09:31:00 PM
With turns like this, I know the Lord watches over us.

Can you sell me anything? I didn't fail to notice that you're leading with techs.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 28, 2015, 09:47:02 PM
I am in the lead with techs, but not by much. You have more than I thought   :)

I checked the few I have that you don't and there isn't anything that wouldn't do me harm. Now, if you were to offer industrial automation, we would be talking. The way things are going I don't expect to have that before the game ends   ::)

Are there any techs you have that I don't?

That's my last turn for this evening by the way, so no hurry!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 28, 2015, 10:00:46 PM
You know how I'd love to help you with the IA, but we just don't have so many floppy discs at hand. Who'd think we could need more than twenty?!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 08:48:38 AM
Dee has begun building the Merchant Exchange.

And we see from reports that the Believers have kicked off The Planetary Transit System, which is a disaster for UN aspirations to benign dictatorship of all Planet. Someone round here got one *lucky* break. Forget bananas. This is real evidence   :)

So Brother Kirov, can *you* sell *me* anything?   ;lol
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 01:47:00 PM
Oh, I don't think you're gonna like it. Since I secured the IA, I got as many as five instabuilds of enhanced crawlers (*-2-2), worth 135 mins each. The PTS is pending completion and I'm afraid you've got only one turn to build the VW.

Now, I wouldn't say it's just dumb luck, I fielded a number of foils and popped numerous pods, many of which brought me IoDs (among other things, with a spore launcher which bombed 2 out of 3 boreholes at my Borehole Cluster... you can imagine my face). Apart from that, I also found 3 or 4 techs and a commlink to Dee, which brought me a cascade of commlinks and techs. But I must confirm that the recent few turns were exceptionally good for me in terms of pods and fruitful exchanges.

What can I sell? IA and Optical Computers are on the table. You understand the price of the former...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 02:07:34 PM
I'm toast   :D   
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 02:24:30 PM
The Drones are completing the ME and the Believers are completing the VW.

I'm thinking if I should exchange IA for your NLM and HEC. I guess we both have reasons to be reluctant about it. On the one hand - I still feel I'm giving more here. On the other - that sweet sweet Defence 3 I longed for so much... :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 02:49:21 PM
The Peacekeepers announce that they have (finally!) unlocked the secrets of IA ... but report continuing disappointing results from pods. The blindfolds just aren't working well for us at the moment. But apparently there's no way of taking them off   ::)

We'll have to decline your kind offer for the moment. But given current trends, we expect you to have defence 3 any minute  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 03:42:11 PM
So we both have IA but you also have NLM and HEC... Hm... Who should be afraid of whom in this case? :P
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
As far as blind is concerned, really the only stroke of luck I had was Doc:Flexibility. Literally everything good apart from that comes from the pods and AI. But right now something red is coming my way, we'll see if it's Loyalty, or something more useful in defending our borders.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 04:29:31 PM
Sonar data, tidal wave, 25 credits ....  It is rumoured that a number of transport captains have been demoted. Although Noble Leader Misotu was considerably amused by the idea that the Believers have security concerns regarding the UN ...   ;lol
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 05:02:02 PM
I've got a deal of IoDs, waves and maps as well, but a huge chunk of sea pods is definitely instabuilds. As for the money - it's Yabcok who told me that the cash yield is related to your bank, which is why he doesn't spend anything when popping. I must it worked for me, I get 50/75 ec in my pods.

You use transports for popping? I was never convinced about that. Yeah I know they can get AA and even Ogres, however they're dead whenever an IoD is encountered. And loaded with AAs, they still need to bring them back home.

And coming back to our relations - why don't we sign a Treaty, Sister? :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
I didn't know about the credits being related to bank balance! That's interesting.

Now you are offering me a treaty with an innocent expression. But I just don't believe you'd do that unless it would benefit you more than me   :)  Let us not forget, Brother Kirov, that despite being my BFF you voted for the ungodly Zak in the elections! We are bound to be a little circumspect ....


Also, the site internet is rubbish at the moment, I had to download the file quite a few times before I could get it to load. We're going out for dinner in a little while, so I hope that this upload works for you and just to say that I won't be checking in again now until tomorrow. Not that I'm trying to put off the inevitable you understand   ;cute
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 29, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
PS   And yes, I do use transports but it may not be that brilliant an idea - in the old days, as long as you didn't end up right next to them, the IoDs used to ignore you more often than not. Just nip into the fungus and you would rarely die. But that doesn't seem to be the case now  ???

I have had a few instabuilds, but before it was really worth it sadly.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM
Hm, I don't get it, we both run FM/Wealth, why can't we have a Treaty? It came to me earlier but I was just forgetting about it when it was my turn. But our commerce level is equal, amirite? And it's gonna be some time before either of us gets EnvEcon (I hope so).

I'd wish you trusted me more, Sis. I don't know what I did to deserve this distance...  O:-)

EDIT: the problem with instabuilds is that they're just okayish before the IA. What really shouldn't have happened in this game is me getting IA before you, that's randomness at work.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 30, 2015, 12:37:47 PM
I do trust you Bro, but at the same time I kinda don't. If you know what I mean   :-\

I messed around with blind research before we started playing this but completely forgot all the things I wouldn't be able to do when playing with a human player in the mix. Big mistake  :)

I don't expect to get env eco in this life the way things are going. My next tech will definitely be no help ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 30, 2015, 01:15:01 PM
I think trust is very important if we are to rule the world together! I have no foul intentions and no means to follow them, if I had any, which I don't. I'm like, Switzerland of the Planet - just minding my own business.

As for blind research, I'm thinking about the way randomness affect gameplay vis a vis the importance of IA. I didn't get IA by research but I bought commlinks to Morgan and was able to do tech exchange. And since AI is stupid, it will buy all your useless techs acquirde via random in exchange for the techs we go for under directed research. So there is that. Still, the time difference between IA acquisition by various factions may be much more severe than under directed research and IA is the "to be or not to be" tech, the one when your game really starts.

Of course, one solution is just to get rid of those crawlers, the most powerful unit in the game. Once I wanted to start a 'no crawlers and choppers' game, but nobody wanted to hop in. People tend to be conservative when it comes to rules.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 30, 2015, 01:53:59 PM
It's funny you should say that, I was thinking about a game without crawlers this morning. The problem with crawlers is that everyone beelines them and then just builds a zillion, but on blind failing to get that tech at the right time is pretty fatal. They are fun in some ways, but massively overpowered and they distort the game in both SP and MP. The AI has no idea what to do with crawlers.

I'd definitely be up for trying a game without crawlers and choppers at some point. I find the focus on IA quite dispiriting really and I don't play it well because it's just so dull constantly building them and working out where to put them ...

You did me a favour building the PTS in one way - it meant that Morgan would finally trade with me once that was built   ::)

I'm very fond of Switzerland.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 30, 2015, 02:25:33 PM
Great to hear that, next time (we've got a great turnover so far) we'll discuss some gamebreaking features in SMAC. Both crawlers and choppers are definitely the worst IMHO.

From Switzerland with love.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on October 31, 2015, 08:42:22 AM
Agreed, it will be interesting to play a more balanced game! The turn rate will drop a little for a while, partly because the weather has improved over here so I'm out more. But I still expect to be checking in a couple of times a day at least  :)

Edited to add: By "balanced" I don't mean this game isn't BTW  :D 

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 31, 2015, 05:09:41 PM
I'd like to do something like cutting aircraft movement in half, so that regular armies and navies are indispensable. As it is right now, infantry is basically for base capturing purposes.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on October 31, 2015, 08:38:32 PM
One more interesting thing came to me - you see, I got a comm to Deedee from a pod and then managed to get all the coms in the same turn (each faction sold me a comm to another one). I believe the only reason I couldn't buy your comm is that the game thinks we're already in touch. So really, we should have been able to talk several turns earlier. One option for the future is temporary disabling pre-made contact for conversations with AI, but I believe it's a kind of abuse untill all players involved know about it.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 01, 2015, 10:37:21 AM
The aircraft thing is interesting - I think it might be hard to remember in-game though. It'd be easy to get distracted and forget (for me anyway). Whereas "no choppers" is easy to do!

You're correct on the commlink although I'm not sure it's a big deal either way in games with 2 human players. But in a 4-player game, making it possible to buy other human comms could be very useful indeed and could make the game more interesting too I think.

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 01, 2015, 02:21:45 PM
Yeah, the commlink thing may be not a big deal, I'm just surprised it never occurred to me before or nobody mentioned it at 'poly or something.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 02, 2015, 10:15:13 AM
Well, in co-op games where we played in teams at Poly we had each other's commlinks from the start and communicating was allowed and I suppose that's the circumstance where being able to talk really matters.

Sorry about the delay BTW - massive storms along the Costa del Sol yesterday, loads of flooding. We're fine water-wise but we lost our internet.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2015, 10:29:28 AM
No problem, Misotu. I hope the weather at your place gets better! :)

Finally, I got hold of NLM.  :danc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9GCwCdW_I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9GCwCdW_I)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 02, 2015, 10:45:53 AM
The dancing Lal celebrating in your post is an imposter   :)

Well, that was one of the worst turns I've played in a while  ...   ::)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2015, 10:58:58 AM
How can I help you, Sis? If you lend me HEC, I can make all your problems go away!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 02, 2015, 11:33:27 AM
A kind offer, Bro. I'd be happy to trade it for environmental economics, if you have it handy  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2015, 11:44:21 AM
Are you trying to tell me you've got EcoEng already? Ouch!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 02, 2015, 12:12:41 PM
No, I'm trying to tell you that I need a miracle  :D

I don't have Eco Eng. However, going back to your offer of assistance, since I've now encountered 2 Believing gun foils hoovering up pods in my waters  :mad: I was wondering if you could divert them temporarily and take out the pesky spore launcher on my coast?

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2015, 12:27:37 PM
In what is probably the best deed I've ever done in SMAC, I left you one of the pods as a sign of my good will.  O:-) However, those in Morganic waters I'm claiming.

I'd love to help you with the launcher, however I don't think I stand a chance - I fight at -4 Planet, it gets +50% for ground fire or whatsisname.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Leaving a pod for me is friendship indeed Bro  :D  It didn't actually make up for the slaughter of my Morgan area transport by the IoD you popped though ...   :-\

Dee is about to finish the Empath. I keep changing my mind about what to do ... never a good sign. Focus, focus, focus ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Focus, focus, focus ...

And attach your turn. ;) Sorry for your loss!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 10:55:07 AM
Curses! Well sometimes you get, sometimes you get got. The time of peace is over, dear Sis. Winter is coming.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 11:54:11 AM
Yikes.   :(  I didn't know what I was going to find when I opened the turn ...


Ah well ... Dee finished the Empath and started the Planetary Energy Grid.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 12:05:32 PM
My poor unit. My poor poor unit. He was so young, his whole life ahead of him. Truly, the Lord works in mysterious ways.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 01:12:26 PM
The Peacekeepers announce that a Memorial Service will be held to honour the Believing gunship which fell in battle today defending their lands. "No greater love hath one Brother for his Sister than to lay down his life in her defence" said Noble Leader Misotu.

Eyewitness tweets suggested that the injured spore launcher was finished off, by the narrowest of margins, by PK defenders.

In other news: PK research failed to deliver once more ... and now we don't even have the right colour  :broken hearted sobs off:

This is why builders don't play blind research   ;lol
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 01:37:46 PM
Oh, the ship is safe, thank God for that. It was a probe who perished. A young man, aged 21 and a father of four. He died like he lived, serving the Lord and his Word.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 01:40:19 PM
Quote from: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 01:12:26 PM
In other news: PK research failed to deliver once more ... and now we don't even have the right colour  :broken hearted sobs off:

This is why builders don't play blind research   ;lol

This is why we need to deviate from strict building, Sis. A life of pirate is adventurous and fast, and ho ho a bottle of rum, aaarghh!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 02:05:12 PM
The Peacekeepers announce the cancellation of their Memorial Service. Street parties celebrating the fate of the Believing probe team have been banned.

Deviating? Sounds deviant to me. And piratical stuff ain't all it's cracked up to be either - I should have had 2 or 3 artifacts at least from the pods I've popped so far. Beelines may be boring, but they're definitely reliable  :wall:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 02:15:15 PM
I don't mean plain ol' swashbuckling, Sis, I'm talking real deal dissemination of information. I'm not saying I've done it already, but if the situation forces me to...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 02:43:29 PM
If the situation tried to force you to, I hope your better nature would prevail Brother Kirov. Listen to the Lord and live the way of Truth and Honour!

:ahem:

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 02:54:55 PM
Well, if you're so unlucky with your choices, I think God tries to tell you something.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 03:01:10 PM
I'm waiting for God's decision as to research this turn myself. We'll see if I was naughty or not!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 03:19:42 PM
My poor choices can't be God's will. I'm sure you mentioned you had been praying for me lately.

Dee is building like a mad thing. She has already completed the PEG (!) and is now moving on to the Citizens Defence Force ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 03:32:52 PM
Well, this would be a great tech several turn ago. Why me, God? Why?!

Oh, and Dee downed my ship, so your mourning was premature yet completely in place. She's unbelievable! My dear Sister, if you equip me with Nerve Gas, I will quickly unconstruct her Projects.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 04:05:38 PM
Sadly, I myself lack the technology for nerve gas. Not that that will come as a surprise   ;lol

My latest tech is *useless*. Life is hard for the poor blind builder.

Edited to add: Oh yeah. HEC gives you nerve gas. For some reason I thought it was the synthetic fuels thingy. Rusty? Moi?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 04:21:44 PM
Yep, that's the one. Let's repeal the Charter and together we can rule the world!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 05:12:21 PM
It will be my first task once I am elected Leader   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 05:41:02 PM
Sister, you're a blessing to this Planet. If only I could trust your words!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 06:09:56 PM
But you can, dear Brother, you can. It's a well-known fact that the only thing a builder likes better than a bunch of recon rovers arriving on her doorstep in 2115 is repealing the Charter.  :)

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 06:22:03 PM
It's a little-known fact that repealing the Charter actually does wonders to environment protection. It's true. The Planet doesn't mind any ecological side effects of atrocities if they are committed without the Charter in place. We don't want to repeat the mistakes of the Old World, now do we?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 07:02:31 PM
In haste - we are going out. But it's good to know that we can save Planet. I will ponder ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Unbelievable. Did Yitzi tweak something with eco-damage? I got a streak 5-6 fungal pops within under a dozen turns at a base with ca 13 eco-d. I'm at 5 eco-d now and if I get another pop next turn, someone's gotta pay.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 03, 2015, 11:14:04 PM
Yes, I am getting serious ecodamage in one base with a very modest mineral intake. Weird. Nothing much to report, other than blind research gave me the wrong colour again. Given that I don't want to disgrace myself I am *trying* to play to what I'm given.

It's difficult   :wall:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 03, 2015, 11:29:00 PM
I haven't got the blind research figured out, but I think that you've got higher chance for 'your' colour if you change it from tech to tech. As in, keeping one colour on all the time will net you a more or less even distribution. I have no idea if I'm right so let's share any info we observe in this area.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 12:18:24 AM
Sorry, I had a lot of trouble downloading this turn and then when I loaded it it was doing weird stuff - 6 mins per row which is just not right. So I don't know how it will show up but if it says 5 reloads that wouldn't be wrong.

In the end I had to play the turn without Yitzi's patch, just to get it to behave. Probably my connection. Apologies. I was on a winning streak, reload-wise, for a while there  :)

Anyway, popped an IoD which is probably going to lurk, as they do, in a *very* inconvenient location   :mad:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
On the blind research, I think watching the AI in SP games is a good indication. Miriam always seems to get air very early - Morgan seems to get to tree farms quite quickly.

I change my priorities pretty much every time I get the tech I want but possibly I should just stick with the settings that are in the general area! Several times now I've been given the completely different colour despite having two choices of priority a lot of the time. With one choice I seem to be certain not to get the one I want!

Perhaps it's this one game ... I will invoke the Lord's assistance. Again.  :unworthy:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 12:28:41 AM
Strangely, there was only one reload message. No worries with that.

My turns got considerably shorter after I lost most of my ships to IoDs. But I don't complain, because now I have nerve gas pods. Ho-ho-ho. ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 01:11:45 AM
Well both the IoD and the mindworm passenger attacked - but my tough little 3res defender held them off for 90% damage. Hoorah!

I would've been in serious trouble otherwise ...

Edited to add: Nerve gas is *definitely* not the way of The Lord. Consider well, Brother Kirov. Consider well.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 01:21:52 AM
Sister, I uphold the same official version you do, but deep down we both know that there is no person in the world who wouldn't think that nerve gas is just rad. Except for this little detail, I support you 100%.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 01:31:43 AM
If you're still here, I can push 1-2 turns and go to bed.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 01:49:28 AM
I'm still here :)

Now, this "rad" thingy. Women and The Lord have no idea what you're talking about. Apart from that, we're 100% with your view that chemical weapons slaughtering populations are absolutely unacceptable   :P
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 02:01:15 AM
Slaughtering populations?!  :o God forbid. Armies can be gassed too, you know. Just a little? Tee-tiny drop of gas in the morning? Come on, Sis, I know you're gonna love it.

One more turn and I'm beating it for tonight.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 02:09:42 AM
BTW, how's the campaign about Brexit over there? Isn't it that the 'Outs' are winning? I read quite an interesting article about it tonight. Quite gloomy, to be sure. I wonder what's the vote spread at the moment.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/03/slouching-toward-brexit-britain-europe-eu/ (http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/11/03/slouching-toward-brexit-britain-europe-eu/)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 02:16:26 AM
You know, I have absolutely no idea about the state of things re Europe. I see Ms Merkel is talking about being flexible and Cameron is campaigning quite hard to stay in. The problem is that a lot of British people equate EEC membership with immigration and that's getting a very bad press at the moment. It's very hard to predict ...

Edited to add: Reading the link you posted, one thing I can say for sure is that retired Brits *do not* get free healthcare in Spain unless they're in a serious state! I tried last year to see a doctor - minimum charge was 170 euros just for an appointment. So it's all bullsh*t. Round the coast, all the doctors are private and looking to scam travel insurers ...  In the UK, doctors are free. Period. The EU is not all it's cracked up to be, but I'd still rather stay in for a number of reasons, not least the human rights aspect and the ability to appeal to the European courts.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 02:27:55 AM
All right, I'll drop a word tomorrow, good night for now! Sorry if I'm less talkative by day, usually it's just breaks from work and I'm actually in hurry.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 04, 2015, 02:46:09 AM
No worries   :)  Lost a transport to an IoD so I'll soon be down to zero explorers. Got a tech which was totally useless. Plus ca change.

Here's your turn for tomorrow ... night Bro
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 04, 2015, 09:01:06 AM
In theory, playing with blind should follow the philosophy of 'make with what you have', not 'plan for what you'll get', but I know it's easier to say, considering how the techs can be unbalanced. One thing is sure, it's gonna be harder for more strict types of gameplay, like pure builder or warmonger. Usually I'm somewhere in the middle and by now I'd already be knocking at someone's door if not for some favourable exchanges. I wonder how it'd look like without the AI and a few very very juicy techs of theirs.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 08:48:53 AM
Sorry for the delay - RL  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 10:56:12 AM
No problem. :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 11:14:44 AM
Progress is slow here, but our researchers' blindfolds are at least the right colour this time ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 12:09:20 PM
Happy to hear that, Sis!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 12:39:09 PM
Don't worry, there are quite a few techs of that colour available. I'm sure to get the most useless  :D

Speaking of which, Morgan has just kicked off the Ascetic Virtues.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 12:41:19 PM
Please upload the turn. :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 12:55:45 PM
Just did! Sorry  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 01:10:02 PM
Dear Sister Misotu, I had this brilliant idea last night - why don’t we compromise on nerve gas? You see, we don’t have to gas entire populations. All we need to do is show them an example and if they resist, well that’s kinda on them then.

My idea is simple – we take some POWs from our concentration camps. The meat must be fresh, young and able-bodied, so the enemy doesn’t suspect any foul play. Then we liberally apply nerve gas to the meat in full view of the enemy’s base. When the meat is dead or on the verge of dying, we catapult it into the base so they can examine…

What? Why are you looking at me like that?

…

Come on, I was just kidding, obviously.

We have no catapults, anyway.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 01:34:11 PM
 :o :o :o

My dear Brother, it seems to me that you have truly lost your way. The Lord would *not* approve. Not even in jest.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 01:44:14 PM
Actually, the Bible is fuzzy here. There's a lot of ins, a lot of outs, it's really not that simple.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 02:01:26 PM
 ;lol   I haven't yet found the passage relating to gassing young people, but I defer to you Brother. You're the expert on these matters.

The Charter is pretty clear, IIRC.

Another transport dead. Ho hum ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 02:13:32 PM
Look, all I'm saying is give war a chance. Our current attitude towards atrocities is nothing but prejudice, fear and negative labels.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 02:35:15 PM
A good point, well made Brother. But in the years since Planetfall the Peacekeeper settlements have grown. Not impressively, I'll admit, and not as well as we'd have liked. Nevertheless, we are fond of them and have no wish to see them replaced with smoking rubble full of gassed ... er ... meat.

A minor point, we know, but one dear to our hearts.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 03:11:07 PM
Dear Sister, I would never attack you or let anybode else do it, how could you even think that?! No, the smoking rubble and gassed meat would of course be a problem of our enemies. You told me yourself some other factions were belligerent, didn't you? Just tell me which ones and I'll do the talking.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 04:01:31 PM
Enough of this suspicion and mistrust! We have faith in you Brother Kirov*.

OK, you talked me into it. Rubble Dee a bit. Vendetta on the noble Peacekeepers indeed! Who does she think she is?  :D


*  Probably

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 04:59:48 PM
You said it, Sister! Deirdre attacked me as well, but a Vendetta on my closest friend and ally*? That does it! Lady Deirdre, there is no place for your warmongering and hate peddling on our Planet and disciplinary action will soon be taken!

* Probably

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 05:23:47 PM
Knew we could count on you Bro   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 05:38:56 PM
Do you have any bone to pick with Domai, per chance? He's much closer. ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 06:03:07 PM
Domai hates me, of course  :)  But no vendetta yet. Probably only a matter of time ...

Morgan started the Citizens defence thing. I'm out tonight so that's my last turn until tomorrow.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 06:47:51 PM
Here you go and see you tomorrow.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 05, 2015, 11:22:53 PM
Oh well, back home and couldn't resist despite the wine. No doubt I will regret this tomorrow when I look it over  ::)  Over to you, my ever-more-powerful-on-the-graph Brother Kirov  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 05, 2015, 11:58:02 PM
Well, that would be the magic of pop-boom. :) I'm looking forward to your tree farms at work. Meanwhile, the Ascetic Virtues will be soon embraced by our faction! Although it's really just formality, considering our modest living.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2015, 12:08:43 AM
And coming back to the Charter, I was thinking about it some more. You can look at it all this way- logically speaking, if we make the atrocities legal, they cease to be atrocities anymore. I mean, there will be no difference between them and other ordinary or extraordinary measures taken up by factions. And ‘measures’ are just that – ‘things people (factions) do’. So in a way, we will expand the scope of personal liberties. So in a way, this will be like Emancipation Proclamation, only much more progressive as it will give broader rights to all kinds of people, regardless of skin colour, gender or factional beliefs. In this perspective, repealing the Charter is actually the most UN thing you can do. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 06, 2015, 12:36:35 AM
So firstly ... sometimes I feel that Planet is against me. And this isn't paranoia. It's a demonstrable fact. :sob:

And secondly, your pop boom is frighteningly impressive and all I can say is that I wish I had the VW.  :treble sob:  Those hologram thingies are so damned expensive.

Now thirdly ... yes, yes, we have a political party in the UK called the Freedom to Party Party. Or at least we did, until people realised that they were having a party at everyone else's expense  :D

Now while we do take your point about expanding the scope of personal liberties in a totally egalitarian manner, it seems to us (and pardon us if we're a bit old-fashioned here) that the egalitarian right majorly extended by your proposal is the right to die a horrible screaming death while watching your nearest and dearest expire similarly around you, regardless of race, gender, creed or factional belief. This is, if you'll pardon the observation, not necessarily a major step forward for humanity generally, QEDs notwithstanding.  :ahem:

But obviously you are still our beloved and most loyal Pact Bro 'n all that.*

* probably
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2015, 12:54:10 AM
OK, so how about this approach? If someone defies you once you've got hold of nerve gas, they're practically begging for it. So in a way, you can consider it euthanasia. And you're sure not against it, being pro-choice and all? So it's really just mass euthanasia, assisted in my case by the same faction which can also deliver the Last Rites, literally minutes before the carpet bombing! Think about it - thousands of souls marching straight to Heaven, while we take over the earthly possessions they don't need anymore. Everybody wins, right? Well, except Satan, of course.

BTW, the Maritime Control Centre poised for completion.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 06, 2015, 01:15:28 AM
I'm quite enjoying this game though goodness only knows why. A Baptism of Fire on returning to MP. Kind of what you expect from the Believers I guess   ;lol

Congrats on the Maritime Brother Kirov. Regarding the "euthanasia" you outline, generally speaking we do support "dignity in dying" which does imply some choice - but we are unconvinced that a screaming, agonising death is the one most people would select, given a free choice. The Last Rites would be a nice touch, of course, but we're not sure it makes up for all the screaming, not to mention the agony and the rubble.

Just a thought.

The Peacekeepers are off to bed in a desperate bid to conserve energy, which they really need right now.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2015, 01:48:58 AM
I enjoy this game as well, although a lot of what happened had to do with pure dumb luck. Oh well. I'm not fond of such a runaway situation on either side.

And when it comes to nerve gas, the main problem is, we don't even know what its effects are on broad population. What if it's not that agonising at all? You never know until you try. Nobody has ever used mass nerve gas in battle and it doesn't work on the bugs. Even testing it is illegal and the number of (alleged) test subjects is probably not that big, besides it's not the same. I say we just see what happens. If nerve gas is not what it's cracked up to be, we can always reinstate the Charter.

Oh, one more thing - the Citizen's Defence Force is, unfortunately, poised for completion. I hate this Project and I think it's useless, but in the hands of Deedee it could slow down my Inquisition. So just denial value.

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2015, 10:48:41 AM
BTW, don't forget your Rising Sun turn!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 06, 2015, 11:23:01 AM
Hi Bro, just to let you know that we've taken off for an impromptu day trip today so won't be able to play until tomorrow ...

I almost apologised, but that's probably daft  :D  Thanks for mentioning Rising Sun, I didn't get a notification for some reason but I'll check that out tomorrow too
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 06, 2015, 11:26:07 AM
Have a nice trip! :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 09:52:50 AM
We did, thanks  :)  Back to Planet ...

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 03:13:15 PM
I've got another idea yesterday. You remember how Prince Harry compared shooting people in Afghanistan to playing video games? It struck me, why can't we do the same? Let's pretend that this is all just some very realistic video game, aptly titled Nerve Gas, and the victory condition is to subject as many bots as we can to various chemicals. This way, you don't have to be so squeamish about injecting some fun to the horrors of war.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 04:50:34 PM
You are amazingly persuasive Brother. I shall retire to my Retreat and meditate on your Words of Wisdom.*

*Almost certainly.

(And it was nice of you to speak of "dumb luck" earlier btw. But this is not really the explanation   :D  )

In the meantime, a large and angry mindworm has somehow pitched up near our HQ. We wait anxiously to see how our green defender will perform ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 05:08:39 PM
I wish you all the best. Meawhile, this round of popboom is over.

You give me too much credit, dear Sister, but thank you. Are you ready to change your mind on the UN Charter? With you, only two more votes are needed. And much how adopting the Charter was a turning point for humanity, so too, will be repealing it! "Fellow creators the creator seeks -- those who write new values on new tablets".
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 05:38:17 PM
I thought there was a fungus path available for our new wriggly friend but maybe the forest grew, I don't seem to get those messages in MP - we wait one more turn to see but our troops are quietly confident with creche, trance and a sensor ...  No doubt their confidence will prove to be misplaced.

You are very keen on the demise of the Charter, I know, but only you, dearest Fundamentalist, could see nerve gas as a creative force  :D  I don't know why you would need it anyway the way things stand  ....   :(

I had to restart the turn, I am sorry. It loaded but I had the movement problem and wrong minerals setting again so I couldn't play it. I did find a pod to pop this turn - but it gave me nothing useful at all and I only popped it on the second try, not the first. Even 25 credits would have been nice   ::)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 05:48:30 PM
What's the problem with your SMAC copy? I think you reported similar issues in Garland's Legacy.

And yep, the messages in SMAX are mixed up. Funny, in this game I get proper messages intended for me, but usually I tend to get the forest growth and kelp growth info for my predecessor.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 06:15:44 PM
It's not my copy of the game, it's the wireless connection to the campsite internet mast - when the site is busy with mobile phones, or early in the evening when people tend to go on-line, the connection is very variable. I can usually spot it because the estimated download time actually increases rather than counting down smoothly, but I wasn't paying close attention on that one and missed it. I'm pretty sure it's not my install because the turn plays fine if I re-download (usually). The downside of living on camp sites   :(  Sorry. I do need to pay attention to the download speed but I got a bit careless because things have been better recently ...

I never get any messages about kelp or forest but I do seem to get everything else. Anyway, the mindworm is gone and our defender barely scratched  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 06:28:11 PM
Don't worry if you need to reload, the pod results will of course vary, but well what you can do.

Recently I racked up 12 ecodamage at my capitol and got a fungal pop in the next turn. This is unbelievable. This Planet of ours is remarkably vengeful.

And I guess we're saying adieu to our Provost Zakharov. I guess we could kinda see it coming, him being an atheist and all. Not feeling so smart now, heh, Mr Genius? Turns out all the answers were already in the good Book. Check-mate, atheists!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 06:50:42 PM
The demise of our good friends at the University is a blow to the Peacekeepers   :(

My mineral production is not sufficiently awesome to produce ecodamage   ;lol
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 07:03:24 PM
You remember that you need to force one fungal pop before you build tree farms, right? Otherwise the eco facilities don't raise the clean min limit? Yeah, just making sure here.

I didn't know you were close with Zakie. Poor, poor boy. I will have him in my prayers.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 07:13:14 PM
An interesting tidbit I keep forgetting telling you - crawlers which are more expensive due to prototyping (like when you use pod instabuilds to get armoured crawlers) yield to Secret Projects only their basic amount, the one as if it wasn't prototyping. I never knew that.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 07:25:43 PM
Dear Zak. He spent the whole game seething - and then finally signed a treaty a few turns ago. He will be *sorely* missed  :(

I did remember about the fungal pop and eco facilities - and I did know about the crawler thing too, although I hadn't thought about it in terms of using an instabuild for an armoured crawler before prototyping the armour. I've never tried for upgraded crawlers that way. It's a neat trick   :)

Changing my research priorities regularly is not having the desired effect. Not at all.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 07:46:35 PM
Popboom spotted. ;) One last base and Zak is a goner.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 08:06:32 PM
The pop boom, yes. Well, better late than never is what we say   ;lol
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 08:19:50 PM
Happy 100th anniversary of our Planetfall! On this occasion, we complete the Xenoempathy Dome.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 08:43:05 PM
Congratulations Brother! Although I can't say I'm wildly excited by your choice of Anniversary Gift, speaking frankly.

I have been praying for you lately Brother Kirov, and a thought occurs to me as I survey my teeny empire. All these fungal pops you experience, could it be that there is a Message there for you from a Higher Power? Could Planet, do you think, be pruning your branches?

I think you should perhaps get rid of some you don't need. After all, we don't want to repeat the mistakes of Earth, do we? I'm thinking Urban Sprawl here ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
I'll reply tomorrow, tonight I was playing with my friends around. :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 07, 2015, 09:16:58 PM
Well, I have a lot of suggestions to make for the painless reduction of your empire, so we should discuss this tomorrow.

Along with the Charter of course.

Last turn for me tonight, back for more punishment tomorrow  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 07, 2015, 10:36:38 PM
See you tomorrow! :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 08, 2015, 10:15:35 AM
Zak is still holding on ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 08, 2015, 03:35:06 PM
I'd like you to remember that the Planet, if indeed sentient, is a false god, for everything is but His creation. The Planet's defiance to our presence can easily be interpreted as hubris not unlike that of the Babel Tower's builders. In fact, whenever I see a fungal pop, I always ponder declaring an all-out war on the Planet by racking up a huge eco-damage and use empath units to kill, kill, kill native life. Oh sorry, I mean "prune her branches". God tells me it's a great idea but it can wait for now.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 08, 2015, 04:03:48 PM
Besides, Sister, what if the environmental turmoils here on the Planet have the same exact cause as the events of the so-called 'climate change' back on Earth? Namely, gay marriage?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 08, 2015, 07:17:52 PM
:smothered shouting off:  It pains me to differ from you Brother, but I have it on the authority of the Tip Top Sombre Reading Room Researcher here that there is absolutely *no* scientifically demonstrable link between global warming and gay marriage. Truly. I know it's hard to believe.

On the other hand, I am having strangely disturbing dreams concerning an unformed Planet mind, with much talk of "lopping" and "pruning". Also, the term "kirovdevil" has come up a few times. I have never encountered this before, and have no idea what it means.

At times, the Planet itself seems to speak to me, summoning me to take control of the Council by calling on the aid of all truly good and noble men. It seems to me that I have a Destiny ... and I know I can count on your aid here my Brother, noblest and goodest of all men.*

* Definitely. The aid bit anyway. We're not sure about "goodest". Or even "noblest", if you press us.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 10:38:27 AM
With the gay marriage, well it's just a scientific theory, much like the theory of the so-called evolution. What everybody knows is that both liberal agenda and global temperatures were on the rise in 21 c., and people who pointed out to a link were persecuted like Gordiano Bruno. I'm just saying we should be open-minded to new scientific ideas and tolerant to people who dare to be different, is all. Cast away your preconceptions, Sister!

On the election - I would be thrilled to help you, you know I would. But it's democracy, Sister. Two contenders can't support each other, how does it look like? Remember the Putin-Medvedev duo? People would mock us and the election itself. Let's keep it fair, my dear Sister!*

And Planet, oh Planet... I fear I've been too good to you. We will need to talk when I secure the Dream Twister.

*unless you can pay with Fusion.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 11:05:48 AM
Fusion!  Ha ha ha. I wish   :)

Morgan is building the Planetary Datalinks. And Zak is still with us ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 11:18:18 AM
Zak's getting help from Lady Dee. His base is safe for a few turns, after that - who knows.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 11:53:42 AM
I suppose there'd be no point wondering whether you'd send me SFF as a personal favour, would there?  :D

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 12:08:52 PM
 :o I wasn't even aware that you infiltrated me, Sis!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 12:41:01 PM
Oh ... yes, well I leave all that sneaking around stuff to our Chief of Security ...

Actually, meeting your delightful 3p radar missile ship was a bit of a giveaway  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 01:10:03 PM
The ship in question has attack 4, Sister.  :P But nice try.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 02:16:27 PM
Could have sworn it was a sixer. Paranoia does strange things to you.  :D

Nothing exciting over here, I'm happy to say  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 03:04:57 PM
And I forgot to mention the completion of the Neural Amplifier.

It seems that Zak was saved in the last minute as he signed a Treaty with Roze. It seems God gave him time to repent but I'm afraid Zak won't use it properly...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 03:36:44 PM
Morgan is about to complete the Datalinks I'm told ...

Congratulations on the Neural Amp Brother  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 03:46:45 PM
And I congratulate you on your popboom, but remember about population control, Sister! There are only so many mouths this Planet can feed.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 04:48:24 PM
Too little, too late on the popboom we fear, cherished Bro. But fret not! It is about to end  :)

Morgan built the Datalinks.

Edited to add: I really hope this worked ok. It took *forever* to upload  :(
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 05:10:56 PM
Don't get me wrong, popboom to your heart's content. You know I wish you all the best. Hey, are there any techs you can sell me?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 05:44:28 PM
Spare tech going? Nope, nope, not a thing. Not me. Trust me - I'm a Noble Peacekeeper  :)


 :o :o :'(   You *have* infiltrated me, haven't you?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 06:03:09 PM
Why would I want to infiltrate you, Sister? You really don't trust me, do you?

I'm happy you found your Alien Artifact. Wouldn't you know it, that entire army you see comes from pod popping, too. Don't worry, Sis, it operates under a UN mandate.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 06:49:38 PM
Brother Kirov, that is a *serious* attack fleet. Now, while you and I have a close personal relationship embracing similar views on nerve gas, gays, evolution 'n all, my Pointy Stick and Not Much Else General is demanding that I seek your reassurance that those troops aren't heading for our shores.

I mean ... I just got the place looking how I like it? You ***wouldn't***!  Would you? It's chintz and knick knacks around here!

And you didn't quite answer my question on infiltration either ...  :fear:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 07:17:39 PM
Sister Misotu, you have my word that that fleet is not coming your way. Quite to the contrary, it is intended to follow your very specific instructions. Soon, the eco-terrorists will bother you no more.

Remember that I could easily hide that freight in fungus if I didn't want it to be spotted. But we're in a hurry here. And consider this - is it really such a huge army to invade your burgeoning empire? Meagre five army-issue Mini Coopers? You would dispose of them in a minute. No, if I wanted to invade you, the very skies would turn dark from... but don't let me digress. Anyhow, you're safe.

And why do you want to know about the inifltration? No, I don't have it.

Dear Sister, I don't know how I can put your mind at ease but I'm desperate to do it. O:-)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 08:08:45 PM
Dearest Bro, *I* am desperate for you to put my mind at ease. But I can't help noticing that to arrive at the Gaian bases you needed to turn *LEFT*.

This is so difficult. I am just going to have to trust your word that you won't pitch up in my waters. We've just decorated our HQ in a fetching shade of magnolia. We don't want it all smoke-blackened and splattered with the detritus of your inquisitors' ... er ... conversations with the less worthy of our workers.

Planet is a lovely and spacious place. Perhaps you could take a scenic tour of other factions' coastlines?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 08:16:07 PM
In addition Brother ... and I really do have to take a strong line here ... your mini coopers are equipped with *nerve gas*   ???

Think of the Charter! Think of the Lord! He said "suffer the little children to come to me" and most emphatically not "make the little children suffer".

There is yet time Brother. There is time ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 08:42:12 PM
Dear Sister, I assure you that my units will hit the eco-lunatics and will hit them hard. But surely you don't want me to disembark where they most expect me? No, if our Blitzkrieg is to succeed, we must bypass their first line of defence. I'm turning NW next turn, don't worry.

And yes, I installed a few nerve gas pods for better morale of my troops. It is legal to own nerve gas under the Charter, isn't it? I swear I'm not going to deploy it unless I'm forced to. You know what Jesus says about nerve gas? "It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it." It's right there in the footnotes.

Sister Misotu, it is just a few units, followed by maybe a few more. They wouldn't possibly be able to inflict a lot of damage on you if they wanted to, which they don't. Just trust me on this. God approves of what we're doing and if it doesn't convince you, well I have a UN Resolution authorising the attack. Here, it's signed by you. I believe this really brings us only closer that all the carnage and chaos that ensues will bear your stamp of approval. Our PR team has it so much easier.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
And Sister, trust me - you wouldn't spot those units if they were heading your way. I parked next to you because I just didn't mind (I have Radar systems so had plenty of room to turn and hide in fungus). So in a way, that's the best sign of good will I could show you. I can't send you flowers so here, have this apple.  ;foo

You can monitor my units as they go, but please please don't do anything to stop them. That would be a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just let me go NW. Put your crawlers and formers on the coast if you're so afraid. My units are not amphibious so they need space to disembark.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Well, ok ...   :-\  I *did* say rubble them a bit. But I'm not sure that amounted to a UN sanction. More a fit of pique really   :)

Well, I certainly won't try to stop you. Although if you take their territory that puts us very uncomfortably close, border-wise. I'm not sure the UN will approve.

I don't have enough formers and crawlers to guard my coastline. But I agree it could be done.

Hey ho. I never liked the Gaians much anyway, with their whimpering Green economics and that snooty Deirdre.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 09:20:56 PM
I'm feeling quite resigned. Blind research just let me down Big Time.   :'(
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 09:46:20 PM
Don't worry, I won't take most of her territory, I just want to establish an outpost or two and the rest will go back to her when she goes submissive (see, I'm not planning to use the gas).

I'm sorry about the research, but if it cheers you up, just think about the poor Gaian defenders. They're gonna have their day ruined in 3... 2...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 10:22:45 PM
Well, I didn't really know what to do next but then it occurred to me that we haven't had an election for a while, so I called one just to keep things interesting.

I couldn't remember how to do a screenshot, but the situation is:

Dee, Domai, Uni all abstained (104 votes in total)
Roze and Morgan voted for me (no idea why really since Roze hates me and has been permanently seething all game). So with my votes that gives the Noble Peacekeepers 420 votes for.

I didn't hold the game up or anything as I'm not up for a bribe on this one  :)

PS  I suspect your "outpost or two" will include her HQ and any SPs? Just askin'.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 10:30:23 PM
I expect you will bribe Roze or Morgan BTW, but I shall count it as a Very Unfriendly Action if you do, since I distinctly recall you declaring it our joint purpose to get the Noble Peacekeepers elected to their proper place  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 10:49:41 PM
My God, Sister, this is a brilliant move! Of course you won the election in a landslide. I'm so happy you'll be the Governor.  :danc: And my neighbour!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 11:20:39 PM
Not very brilliant getting elected as the Peacekeepers, I know   :) 

I like having neighbours but I'm not sure you'll like the neighbourhood. Truly. I don't mind running the captured bases for you if you like?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 09, 2015, 11:46:26 PM
I've just realised that it's really late ... so that was my last turn tonight, I have to turn in. See you tomorrow if you're on-line  :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 09, 2015, 11:53:20 PM
Alas, my dear Sister, the worst thing happened! It turns out that my units are much weaker than her pulse garrisons shielded behind the perimeter defence. Only the nerve gas gives me any fighting chance. I'm afraid I will have no choice but issue this most terrible order.  :'( That's one Peacekeeping mission going awry.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 09:24:36 AM
Why am I not surprised? This was probably a pivotal moment in the game   :)  I urge you to consider well, Brother Kirov. (Actually doesn't everyone* declare vendetta on you if you break the Charter? It's so long since I played and it's not what I tend to do so I'm really hazy about it ... )

Anyway, Morgan kicked off the Hunter Seeker.

* Well "everyone AI" I mean. Not me, obviously  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 10:10:10 AM
Well, I have an idea how to avoid unnecessary loss of human life. I hope you will support me with this! If Lady Dee doesn't do anything stupid, nerve gas pods may very well remain closed.

Meanwhile, the HSA is poised for completion.

EDIT: Automatic Vendetta comes only with major atrocities, i.e. nukes and I think tectonic/fungal missiles. Nerve gas is a petty, little, frivolous atrocity and as such triggers only economic sanctions, some eco-damage and eternal hatred of the victim.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 10:57:38 AM
Congrats on the Hunter Seeker - that was fast  :)  The rules allow crawler upgrading with energy don't they?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 11:18:30 AM
I'm afraid not. What happened was that I grabbed a lot of sea pods which yielded a number of instabuilt upgraded crawlers; I was in fact still reaping benefits from that with the HSA.

I am so extremely unlucky with the front news I want to punch my screen. Every turn yet another units pops up where I was poised to strike. God really wants me to use nerve gas, doesn't He?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 11:54:18 AM
He doesn't. He really doesn't   :D

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 12:15:38 PM
I don't believe this. I was literally one hit point away from taking the base in question. And it's gonna have two defenders in the next turn. I am so unhappy that I heeded your word, Sister. One batch of nerve gas would have solved all my problems.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 12:55:06 PM
Well, if I were sensible I would have taken out a transport or two as they passed since those bases will definitely be my undoing.  :)  So really you have had tremendous good fortune in this campaign Brother. And besides, consider your Immortal Soul  :D



Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 01:43:03 PM
We both should thank God for how peaceful we are to each other. I hope to make a good neighbour!  :danc: It'd be great to borrow some salt every now and then. Don't worry, your western flank is secure on my watch.  :ok:
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 02:09:41 PM
I have that in writing a number of times now. Not that it will help   ;lol

On a more positive note, short of a serious SNAFU, the Peacekeepers will actually complete an SP next turn  :gasps of amazement from audience:

Our second. All game. Our approach needs work.   ::)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 02:35:53 PM
Congratulations! The Supercollider is a powerful tool. How I would like to have one in my backyard!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 03:13:23 PM
I thought I'd save you the trouble of building it yourself   ;lol

We are also the first faction in space.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 03:49:41 PM
"Looking God in the eye".
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 10, 2015, 04:17:27 PM
 ;st  Well, turns out space is mostly empty.

That's my last turn for today, we have people coming over to eat shortly.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 10, 2015, 06:16:24 PM
See you tomorrow, then!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 12:08:49 PM
Hi Kirov, I think you've uploaded the 2223 turn again instead of the next turn?

I did try loading it, in case it was mis-named, but it's definitely the previous turn.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2015, 03:17:26 PM
Crap. I saved the turn at the end to watch it later and then forgot to hit that 'end' button. You'll get a million reload warnings, but don't worry, nothing was moved.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 04:08:48 PM
No worries  :)  Over to you, my utterly noble and trustworthy BFF
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2015, 04:56:49 PM
My dearest dearest friend, thank you for your constant visits with you airplanes. Would you mind if some of my foot soldiers repay the visit? :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 05:41:35 PM
Brother!  :o  Your lack of trust disappoints me. Did I not permit your transports to invade Gaian territory at a location that makes me *very* vulnerable, quite contrary, I might add, to the very insistent advice of my Pointy Stick General?

My planes are simply reconnaissance units. You are operating in hostile territory and, as a good friend, I need to have your back. Which I do. Best Friends Forever!  :danc:  :hearts and flowers:

Now, with regard to your foot soldiers wandering around in my territory, that would obviously not be cool. And I have to say that I would not take kindly to transports arriving with further troops, if you press me. You have a lovely little base there - be content. Remember, Planet can only feed so many mouths and Diversity is Good, even when it's the Gaians   :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
And anyway, I made a serious error this turn you will no doubt be aghast to hear  :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
What kind of error was that? I didn't notice anything.

A bug occurred which may cost me several jets (it already cost me one). When I upgraded all my units to Fusion, those which were airborne were allowed to move, but as if 'lost' one turn of movement (i.e. they are red instead of yellow but only with 1-2 movement left so I can't return them home to safety). I clicked the end of the turn, but I remember it could mess with the game. We'll see what happens. If there's anything wrong, I can replay my turn.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 07:09:17 PM
Actually I was wrong, the error was *this* turn  ::) and it's too embarrassing to describe in a public forum. Suffice to say it's a while since I've played   :-[

Yes, upgrading jets to a better engine through the workshop is tricky and the game doesn't handle it well. I've lost jets a lot to that one, because I always forget. You should be ok for next turn I think, but if not just say.

I was interested in what you said about saving to have a look at the turn further, and so I did the same but it instantly quit the game, which I didn't expect  :(  It was right at the end of the turn, so I loaded my saved game and didn't get a reload message, then pressed turn end. So probably it's fine, but if you get a reload message then that's what it was, nothing was repeated. Just me saving the turn.

The Noble Peacekeepers called the Council. In these times of peace, we should focus on trade so that's what I proposed. As things stand at the moment, it will carry but ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2015, 07:46:42 PM
I never upgrade via workshop, it's just I bought Fusion from Morgan and this series of upgrade screens happened. Cost me 3 units, just freshly upgraded with money. :(

I voted 'yes' although I'm a bit surprised you didn't feel to consult me beforehand. Well, I will have to adjust interfactional relations once I put all the others into submission. Good I didn't use that gas!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 08:19:45 PM
Ah yes sorry, an oversight. Given how happy we are on Planet I just presumed that you would be happy with more trade  :)

I'm sorry about your jets. It's *very* annoying when that happens. But you have lots of minerals, so replacements will be quickly available.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 11, 2015, 08:55:36 PM
I got a serious of long messages about AI, but it was just a blink, as it always is. I hope it's nothing serious.

Ouch, you already have the energy satellites? Poor me.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 11, 2015, 09:31:34 PM
I do, and I like them but they are expensive.

We are having an early night tonight and watching a film, so this is my last turn until tomorrow Bro.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 03:07:38 AM
See ya tomorrow!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 10:04:06 AM
The film was terrible, should have played AC instead   ;lol

The Noble Peacekeepers kicked off an SP.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 11:39:17 AM
The turns are so time-consuming now that they start to interfere with my workload. :D Nevertheless, it's hard to resist.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 12:26:35 PM
Tell me about it  :)  I should have been off food shopping an hour ago.

By the way, I must have missed your announcement concerning declaring war on the  Drones. Domai was my friend. Not a very good friend, admittedly, but my friend. I shall miss him   :(

By the way, when I saved the game and then had to load it to press turn end, did you get a reload message? I didn't get a warning when I loaded it - which ought to be right since doing that enables people to save half-way through a turn if they need to. But it would be good to know as I'd avoid it if it does give a reload message.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 01:11:24 PM
And sometimes I try to coordinate, e.g. send my turn and immediately go shopping, so that I can come back for the next turn. :D

I didn't start the war with the Drones, although perhaps I will end it. He actually had demanded 'protection' money beforing going to war. Can you believe it? Some people have the nerve...

Feel free to save the game when you want, there is no reload message. It's perfect when you need to go out suddenly. Every now and then I also save at the end of the turn if I want to take a look at it. Comes useful especially after combat, when you want to think what's next.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 02:38:46 PM
Good to know on the saves, thanks.

Poor Domai. Great with hammers and other heavy objects, bit of a muppet when it comes to deep thought. Your bases seem to be popping up *everywhere*   :-\

Morgan kicked off an SP.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 02:57:01 PM
You've sent me your turn, probably you saved and didn't hit 'end'. ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 03:26:42 PM
I think I just sent the wrong one - hopefully this will work! Sorry.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 02:38:46 PM
Poor Domai. Great with hammers and other heavy objects, bit of a muppet when it comes to deep thought. Your bases seem to be popping up *everywhere*   :-\

Well, your HQ alone seems to pump out almost as many lab points as my entire faction. :) That's one impressive SSC, I must say.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 05:02:36 PM
Yes ... you know dear Brother, when people make remarks like that it somehow makes me nervous. And my Pointy Stick General is having a blue fit, but I can't quite make out what he is shouting about. Something about Planet being in a fluster? Makes no sense at all to me.

But I must say, dear Friend, that your Principled Stand regarding nerve gas and Other Atrocities is an example to us all. The Word of God is great indeed! There will be many converts to your cause. I'm first in the queue, I can tell you.

Still no MMI. Amazing. Not that choppers are much help now really - this is the big, empty tech gap for a builder and blind research is a killer.

We are sad   :(



Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 05:27:56 PM
My Beloved Sister, Sunshine of our Planet, She Who Prances in Fungus, Omnipotent Energy Being To Be,

I have to inform you, and with a great sorrow, that a most dreadful thing happened – as one of your bases got within the range of my Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile, we are now teetering on the brink of a nuclear war.

Dear Sister, I really hope you understand my desperate predicament – you are currently on the runaway trajectory to the Transcendence and there is nothing I could do to keep up with you. And much as you would make my second favourite Supreme Ruler of the World, I’m afraid I’m applying for this position myself. Besides, you’re just too good for these wretched humans. They deserve someone more despicable.

Believe my word that I would just hate to put any damage on your wise and beautiful faction, which is why I hope this nuclear ultimatum will suffice. I would expect that you concede my military domination, the effects of which can be discussed (I don’t need to win now, I just want to prevent you from doing so while I still have time). Should you refuse, an all-out nuclear confrontation will ensue.

Now, I just want to stress two things: First of all, as you probably know, it is not one who has more nukes but who can deliver them which has the advantage. And I already have one delivery chain system in place (obviously) and I’m nearing the completion of two more. Between the PTS, HSA, MCC and Xeno Dome, I can fairly easily deploy numerous throw-away bases and airbases aimed to operate as warhead transfer points. When placed outside your bomber range but inside my missile range, there is not much you can do about them. And I only need 9 of them, not counting the one already humming in its silo.

Secondly, I assure you that I don’t hesitate to accept any nasty drawbacks of such a war, from casting out of the Council to eco-damage. In fact, I’m looking forward to the latter, as brutal raping of the Planet seems to be one of the most effective ways to make money, courtesy of the Almighty. And with my fleet of formers, I can easily bring down the Deluge on this world and stay dry myself.

So what say you, Sister Misotu of the Peacekeepers, Governor of this Pale Pink Dot of ours? The future of the Planet is in our hands.

PS. And believe me, God is completely fine with all of this. His actual words were, “Aaahh, just like in the old times”.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 05:35:10 PM
And so it is, my Sister. I see no other thing than  ;nuke; that can prevent you from Transcending before me. I'm genuinely sorry, although we could kinda see this coming, Believers vs. Peacekeepers. You're just too good of a player. And you're surely aware of the 'snowball effect' which means that after some point I can only dream about catching up. You'd smash me probably somewhere around Hab Domes, seeing your nut output.

I've never even played past the nuke stage, all my games were resolved either at D:AP/MMI or Fusion at the latest. I literally had to look up what the Living Refinery does as I had no idea. :)

So, it's your call now - either a total war, a handshake or we can just as good play some more (although I will never give up the nuclear advantage).

I really respect your skills and love bouncing turns with you. But you know, "if you want peace, you must prepare for war". ;)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 05:37:34 PM
PS. I'm going out soon so take your time, I won't do my turn tonight anyway.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 05:54:19 PM
The Noble Peacekeepers are devastated to find that our Perfect Trust and Cordial - nay Friendly - Relations have come to this, dearest Brother.

And are you *sure* it's a nuclear weapon? Last time we looked it was called "supply crawler". We have been sadly misled  :(  I have to say though that our Pointy Stick General kept pointing out, in exasperated tones, that it was the wrong shape for a supply crawler. We just didn't believe him, nasty suspicious man.

Well I always said that I was a rotten militarist  :D  But it was very, very dumb of me to miss that airbase until too late.  ::) It might have bought me a few more turns taking it out - but there's absolutely no defence to busters without orbital defence and blind research is terrible at this stage - actually even with guided research it's a long, long stretch to get there. But it wasn't many turns away ... esp. with the Theory of Everything coming in in 2  :D 

You are right, at this stage and without busters I was going to be doing 3 techs every 2 turns in a couple of turns - I'm doing a tech a turn now pretty much - so even with Morgan helping your research if you don't blow me to kingdom come I will cruise transcendence.

To be honest, I didn't expect to last this long  :D  And I was interested to see if you would try a conventional attack first, just for the fun of it  :)  I think I would have held that off with luck, but again tachyons weren't coming up.

I enjoyed the game Bro  :D  and a worthy victory. It's not easy to play the Believers against the PKs without early war and given that this was my first MP game in 15 years or so I don't feel bad. But you can see why I like team games! Nerve gas is hard for builders - and busters are a nightmare ...




Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 05:56:46 PM
Which all adds up to "I concede"  :D

It's no fun watching your bases go up in smoke. Although .... the last time my SSC HQ was busted I *still* transcended  :D :D

But I don't think you'd let me get away with that ...
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 12, 2015, 06:01:49 PM
We are going out tonight too, but now the game is over I definitely have some questions to ask (tomorrow). Some will be dumb, but there were things I just couldn't remember and some new things that I think might be Yitzi.

Congratulations Brother!
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 12, 2015, 06:28:02 PM
I'm looking forward to discuss this game with you, you have several strategies quite different than mine (e.g. terraforming sea instead of just raising it, crawling energy instead of mins, etc.).

I didn't want to go early ballistics because I really, really didn't want to fight you. From the moment you mentioned you're a 'hopeless builder', and then roleplaying the PK in such a sweet way, I knew that sneaky nerve gassing your HQ just won't bring me the rush it usually does. But you know this will have to change if we're to play together, right? ;)

Yeah, you may have already noticed that I like this kind of action, little tricks like renaming units, finding weak points etc. I'm heavy on scouting, navy, map control, power projection, looking for sweet spots. It sure costs a lot comparing to builder growth, but it's worth every penny. Basically it's all the difference between MP and SP.

Re: airbase: fret not, it was timed so that the airbase was built in the very same turn the 'supply crawler' was ready to move in. There is no airbase in 2230, as you can see. :)

Re: regular attack: I'm pacted with Zak and Morgan and would have probably just transferred gas jets through them, reaching half of your faction. That would be my first idea, but for example bombing the heaven out of your sea and coastal improvements with hordes of 2-2-4 would be another.

That's it for tonight, I'm looking forward to talk with you and find another game! It can't be anything less than thrilling (my heart was literally pounding the recent turns).

Thank you for the congrats and above all, thank you for a great game, see you around, Sis!  ;b;  :D

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 13, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
On the nerve-gassing the HQ thing, to be honest that's what I expected you to do - and as early as you could - so it was a big surprise to me when I realised that you were actually holding off doing that! It made the game more exciting, that's for sure :)

Mart's map was good - thank you Mart! - because it did rule out the early rush, gave me more of a chance and made for a more extended and more interesting game. But of course with your pact mates in that middle region, there was absolutely nothing I could do to stop you late game other than take both Zak and Morgan out. A different player would have done that - but that comes with its own consequences and means playing a completely different game which I wasn't cut out for this time round. I could barely remember how to pop boom in FM when I kicked off   ;lol

I have to say that I never expected to win this game, and it's definitely the case that pure builder will almost never prevail in MP against a competent hybrid or militarist, but I *like* it as a strategy, for many reasons, and it can pay off in spades in a team game, given the right team. I hoped this would be a good game (and it was, really good, and very exciting at times). I was hoping to get a serious refresher course in the way MP works - which I did - and get back into the swing of how those games play - which I did - and in particular I wanted to find out how long a tight, highly-developed empire could hold out defensively, and what worked and what didn't (I didn't find that out!).

The Believers' weakness is research rate of course, and I'm usually strong on that. So the idea was to try to research the counter-measures before you got the offensive measures. It's not a strong strategy, but it was really the only one available given the way I play and given how much I don't remember! Blind research doesn't lend itself to that strategy *at all*, but then it's also hard for militarists to get the techs they need early enough. I didn't count on Morgan researching as well as he did (dammit!)  I bought techs or traded tech you already had whenever I could and I resisted pacting with him for a long time, but in the end it wasn't stalling his rate so I gave up, took the pact and got the commerce rates increased through the Council on the basis that I would benefit from that way more than you, given an energy empire. Still didn't help  :D

My experience is the same, MP games rarely get to nukes - I have had it happen in the past because 'Poly used to set up builder-specific games - but usually it's all over by MMI. But in fact nukes are the most unbalanced aspect of the game in many ways - a serious design flaw for MP making the defensive tech soooo  far away from such a devastating offensive tech. Once you got to busters I knew it was over - you had so many potential routes for delivery that it wasn't funny and there was absolutely no way of closing them down. I needed to get a tech lead of 12+ to have a chance of reaching orbital defence but I didn't manage that - had the artifact thing panned out better I might have had a few to cash late game and pray!

I was relying on a serious energy strategy plus artifacts from pods to boost my tech - I had four transports out looking and popped a lot of pods (even though you were much quicker off the mark and got the vast majority) but I got *one* artifact from the sea. Ironically, it was from the pod that you kindly left for me!  :D  The only one all game - I got two others from land pods but I'd hoped for 5-6 from the sea which wouldn't be unusual. I've often had more than that. Didn't happen.

So I did try to prepare for war - I had the capacity to build elite and commando shard interceptors at a very serious rate if I'd seen conventional unit movement towards me from your side, plus elite photon AAA/ECM defenders (soon to be upgraded again and again) and although you would no doubt have prevailed in the end it would have been a hell of a slug fest and my research rate would only have been increasing meanwhile. An energy empire is very hard to dismantle - people have made the mistake in the past of thinking a single HQ planet buster will do it. But not so, definitely not. It's surprisingly resilient. When you spoke of needing 9 busters I realised you weren't going to fall for the seemingly pathetic Noble Peacekeeper leader coughing and spluttering in the smoking ruins of her HQ and bewailing her now-hopeless empire  :D

At one point you were running away so fast that I actually thought you might beat me to Transcendence. As the Believers! Not to be borne  :D  :D  :D  How sad would that have been? I would never have dared shown my face here again ... the embarrassment would have been too great. But I'd forgotten what a slow burner the energy strategy is, the early look of things is very misleading.

We do play very differently and it was interesting to see. Actually, I would really like your password now the game is over? It would be fascinating to take a look at some of the early turns and see how we differ ...

Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on November 13, 2015, 07:26:39 PM
I have impression, PK had greater chance to win by transcendence, based on 2231 turn.
And a hypothetical question: if that game had this special rule, that we have in Garland's Legacy, that PK and Believers are bound by a secret pact, and cannot have open vendetta, how Believers would need to proceed in order to win before PK would do it? Believers would need to transcend before PK, in what way?
- probing?
- using AI factions to defeat PK in vendettas, that would be by stealth operations, like framing?
- conquering AI and building more bases than PK?
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 07:26:53 PM
No problem with the password, it’s: dei9. Have fun with it.

I fully agree that a pure builder doesn’t stand a chance against more aggressive players, as they get to choose the time, place and army to attack. This means they can wreak havoc at a fraction of the cost incurred by the defender. This is why I always prefer a probe foil to another Network Node. Marine probes are especially underrated units and I don’t know why. When you bring them to elite on some hapless AI, you can then easily do stuff like framing human opponent (you can see my elite probe far in the North-East waiting for exactly that) or targeting infrastructure. What you saw here was my builder mode anyway. :D Normally, I never build Hybrid Forests and I never allow my opponents to do so. 15 H-F cost me 3000 mins and it makes me drool when I think of the army and covert ops I could field for that money. 60 probe foils? Wet dream. All things equal, I will always claim that they are better, or at least have more potential, than 15 H-Forests.

I think even a builder needs to invest in serious navy and army, set up some kind of perimeter. First to protect boreholes against throw-away 2-2-4 (18 mins), and then farther to scout for those nukes. I agree they are super powerful, but can’t say they’re OP, due to their less-than-stellar range. I know it’s costly, but builder or not, you either try to intercept them or simply throw the towel midgame.

I remember that I pick it up from Flubber (at ‘poly), the best SMAC player I’ve ever seen. His posts were always super smart and in one game we shared, he just wouldn’t make a mistake (granted he was Zak but still). He had this ‘active defence’ approach when you scout your borders and beyond with high attack units instead of waiting.

(You won’t see me doing it so much in this game just because I believed your word that you’re a pacifist. :D )

I think we do have a trouble when playing HtH together as I can’t just get you off the hook. You must be forced to spend more money on defence lest you run away with techs. So it’s either harassment or one-time big hit. So basically either you win or you don’t get to play like you want to. :)

And the bigger problem than buster is IMHO that snowball effect of energy. I mean, in 2200 we were mostly on par. 15 turns ago you started to get the lead. Now you’re in a rocket. You’d be with ODP in 10 turns or something and it’s not that I can’t catch up (still Miriam) but I can’t do anything else against better reactor, late-game Projects etc. And at the end you do 2 techs per turn. So the sad restriction is, I just can’t let late game happen. Unless we try tech stagnation or something.

Re: artifacts – I think popping with transports is way less effective than with foils. Artifacts are worth 50 mins and you need to bring them back. After IA, I was instabuilding Supply-2-2 Trance for 135 mins each. In total, I got 2300 minerals between 15 instabuilt crawlers (13 with armour 2, 1 – A3, 1 – A4, this one was used for the Planet Buster). And I really can’t say it was luck, with 6 foils I scooped 80% of pods, so I had my share of IoDs and tidal waves.

I guess that’s it for now but I will probably write some more.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 07:54:39 PM
Quote from: Mart on November 13, 2015, 07:26:39 PM
I have impression, PK had greater chance to win by transcendence, based on 2231 turn.
And a hypothetical question: if that game had this special rule, that we have in Garland's Legacy, that PK and Believers are bound by a secret pact, and cannot have open vendetta, how Believers would need to proceed in order to win before PK would do it? Believers would need to transcend before PK, in what way?
- probing?
- using AI factions to defeat PK in vendettas, that would be by stealth operations, like framing?
- conquering AI and building more bases than PK?

I believe you either win by transcendence or conquest, other options are just fancies. So really you just wouldn't convince me to go against Misotu with that. :D

But if I had to, I see one main option and that is probe war. I mean, she can't destroy my transports, right? So bring your probes to elite (Fundie, Command Center also works), get a few ships full of infantry elite probes and apply that genetic virus. If it works like nerve gas, you need 5 probes to completely eliminate one 16pop base. And if she has 6 defensive probes at each base, this means I have 60 offensive probes to use as well, if all things are equal. How do you want to intercept that without Vendetta is beyond me. A literal rectangular barricade of units would work, but you need two of them at each square (so they are not mind controlled).

And this assumes that you don't do that old abuse (I wouldn't) - send a mind worm, release it into the wild next to enemy HQ, nuke it. Barring that, you can frame enemy with AI, give said AI a nearby base and transfer some needlejets. When they go in, nuke the AI. Of course, this doesn't allow to conduct ongoing nuke war as the AI turns against you. But you know, an option for your Garland's Legacy thing. ;)

Now that I think about transports with probes which can't be killed en-route, I want to dream about it some more... :D

A question - at one moment I saw a Morgan jet parked at Misotu's base. Could I, you know, nuke that Morgan jet with your rules? Treat the base as 'collateral damage'? Because it does give some room for abuse.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 08:01:49 PM
Oh, and:

Quote from: Mart on November 13, 2015, 07:26:39 PM
I have impression, PK had greater chance to win by transcendence, based on 2231 turn.

Absolutely. All this pop and Projects of mine would soon mean nothing. When you pick up the tech curve, there's no stopping you apart from violent solutions. That is my problem with all that late game - it has a lot of great stuff but before you get to enjoy it, someone just transcends.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on November 13, 2015, 08:18:19 PM
Quote from: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 07:54:39 PM
...

A question - at one moment I saw a Morgan jet parked at Misotu's base. Could I, you know, nuke that Morgan jet with your rules? Treat the base as 'collateral damage'? Because it does give some room for abuse.
I would need to check it in scenario editor, what the game actually says in such case.
But it all sounds like very big abuse... :)
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 09:47:24 PM
Well, obviously hitting enemy base would be abuse, but I just wanted to point out to a fact. I mean, rules are rules. If a Morgan jet is flying around, why can't I take him down with a nuke, even if it's next to enemy HQ? There may be stuff like that with Garland's Legacy rules.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on November 13, 2015, 11:10:04 PM
Yes, we will probably have "heavy" diplomacy in that game.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 14, 2015, 10:37:04 AM
This is all really interesting on the no-vendetta-probe-war scenario.

If there were no open vendetta allowed (and obviously using a planet buster *anywhere* in your opponent's territory would be an abuse Brother, no matter the pretext    :P  ) then I think the probe war would be tough but counterable. I'd have to think about it, but:

- As it happens, I got to Pre-Sentient Algorithms a couple of turns before you, so obviously I'd have made sure of the Hunter Seeker with these rules! I didn't prioritise it this game, just too many things to do and I didn't think probes were going to be that important in the end.

- The small, tight empire makes a probe war harder to prosecute - the more bases, the more opportunities for the enemy and the harder it is to patrol effectively. Using units as a barrier would require about 60 units as it stands but in fact far fewer once my terraformers have constructed an artificial reef.  I would use foil supply units for this - they are maintenance-free and although they would need to be deployed in pairs, a tidal harness would ensure that one of the pair sourced energy for me every turn.

- The WP would have enabled me to use that little band of monsoon islands as a barrier by raising the land to make a reef right across my territory, with a sea gap behind. Only a few units would be needed to shut off the entrances completely and while I couldn't protect all my bases this way, it would definitely improve matters.

Using air transports or drop to deliver probes into my territory would overcome that but it gives me a chance to boot them out when they land and there wouldn't be any fungus around to hide in, that would have all been removed. My roads would be blocked off with crawlers. I'm not sure if you're allowed to kill probes under these rules? If you can, then I would, obviously.





Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Misotu on November 14, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
OK, well first of all you must remember that this was my first game in many, many years and I'd be the first to admit that I made *a lot* of mistakes! It was a steep learning curve in so many ways, but it was very generous of you to play the game you did - and I think a lot of fun for both of us   :)

Quote from: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 07:26:53 PM
I think even a builder needs to invest in serious navy and army, set up some kind of perimeter. First to protect boreholes against throw-away 2-2-4 (18 mins), and then farther to scout for those nukes. I agree they are super powerful, but can’t say they’re OP, due to their less-than-stellar range. I know it’s costly, but builder or not, you either try to intercept them or simply throw the towel midgame.

I agree with you of course, but even so it's not a hard and fast rule. You play to the game - and I did! I promised to build, and kept my word. You kindly responded and didn't play a full-on conquer game and it was clear from your research rate that you were building quite seriously. So I was correct in my early assessment that you weren't a threat to me conventionally as things stood, which is why in the end you had to build a planet buster, remember? So all those conventional arms early game would largely have been a pointless waste of minerals   :P  even if it makes me look dumb not building them. :D

"Hybrids" and militarists always focus on military when it comes down to it - in MP this is a war game by default and anyway they'd rather build a probe foil/chaos rover/nerve gas jet than a network node any day. But pure builders *don't* focus primarily on military - that's what makes them builders   ;)  Somehow, a builder has to try to build as much as possible, while staying safe. And that’s the challenge of course, which is why I quite like it. I’ve played a few slug fest games, and they are ok I suppose, but nothing beats the excitement of waiting for the attack and seeing how it pans out  :D  Very often it pans out badly, but I'm a good loser, heh. Very often the attacker gets a lovely surprise  8)  Of course, in this game the attack didn't materialise in quite the way I envisaged earlier on   ::)

I think, for a builder, the key is flexibility. The ability to respond quickly to a threat once the threat exists. On smaller maps, land-based maps and so on you don't get a choice, the threat is always there, so obviously you choose Gaians, not PK  :D and get tooled up. But on this map, as long as you patrol and pay attention, you will get a few turns' warning and you will know what the threat is, which enables you (hopefully) to build the counter. In theory it's very Sun Tzu - your defence is actually invisible because it exists only in potential. Once you know what form the threat will take, you tailor your defence to meet it. And there is always a chance that the enemy will underestimate your ability to respond, attacking earlier with a smaller force. I have seen this happen (although of course better players are unlikely to fall for it - and that's the important thing to learn and try to anticipate. What will better players send?)  The key is to get the enemy to waste minerals and turn-time on an attack measure that won't succeed and won't hurt you too much - not save them the mins and turns by showing them that you're ready for it. And in the meantime, you try to hit that unstoppable tech curve for *military* reasons.

Boreholes are vulnerable to sea bombardment, but the cheap counter is placing a supply crawler over the top of them. 2-2-4s or similar are easy to take out with air units, so the builder has to have a few of those and increase that number steadily with elite prototypes as new techs become available  plus the ability to churn out another dozen over a couple of turns at any point. Here the defender has the advantage in that the units are in the field of combat as soon as they're built, no turn gap while they move into position. Cheap little jets hitting supply crawlers can be countered by cheap little interceptors sitting in bases next to those supply crawlers (or moving them out of range of course). Of course there will be losses. The trick is that they should not be critical. Building a big military in advance, then having them sitting there draining your minerals when there is no possibility, yet, of an attack simply plays into the militarists' hands. They have forced you to play their game, not yours. Or, as you say:

"You must be forced to spend more money on defence lest you run away with techs. So it’s either harassment or one-time big hit. So basically either you win or you don’t get to play like you want to. :)"

Quite   :)

It's a fine line, full of risk and I fully agree that it's not the best strategy if you want to win your games, which is why I didn't play this way usually in the past - or at least not to this extent. But I like a challenge and there are things to learn, ways to refine. Don't forget that an energy empire based on forest and sea converts to a serious mineral empire in a single turn ...  it’s just a question of getting the balance right and resisting the urge to build just … one …. more …. tree farm.

In the old days I played a lot of build challenges and probably won 95% of them, but I also played standard MP in a more hybrid fashion and probably won around half. So I wouldn't expect you to spare the nerve gas in a future game, don't worry    :)  Having said that, you are obviously a far better player than I so losing a series of slug fests might get a bit samey  :D

I didn't get the navy thing together at all - forgot that I'd get FM drones with ships if you can believe that and then got exasperated because I couldn’t get my ships round to my little FM military base without huge disruption. And then I thought choppers just had to come up and are way better scouts than ships.  So on the military front I completely agree that I messed up, esp. in the last 10-15 turns or so. I was just so sure that I'd get MMI - and this is where I overcooked it, I held off, thinking it was just around the corner. I couldn't believe finally getting Unified Field Theory instead of MMI although of course it was too late anyway.

My assessment said that I couldn't survive planet busters, no matter what, so I'd pretty much accepted the inevitable by then. I had bet the farm on achieving a better early tech rate delivering a workable tech lead and it didn't pay off. Such is Planet   :)

On transports vs foils for pod popping:  Certainly your approach was astonishingly effective and of course foils also have more movement points which is a serious factor. But on the other hand, artifacts are *not* worth 50 mins (! so militarist!)  They are worth a tech, and on blind research getting a random tech is not the risk it is in guided research. Every tech is pretty much random anyway. But given tech was my strategy, I should have made it a serious priority. I took way too long to get those 4 transports built, very stupid, and I should have built way more then cashed them in when their job was done. That was probably the point at which I sealed my fate, looking back. After that, I can claim bad luck regarding artifacts, but very good luck on IoDs. I didn't lose a single transport until your foils turned up and forced me to pop on my last movement point.

Quote from: Kirov on November 13, 2015, 07:26:53 PM
And the bigger problem than buster is IMHO that snowball effect of energy. I mean, in 2200 we were mostly on par. 15 turns ago you started to get the lead. Now you’re in a rocket. You’d be with ODP in 10 turns or something and it’s not that I can’t catch up (still Miriam) but I can’t do anything else against better reactor, late-game Projects etc. And at the end you do 2 techs per turn. So the sad restriction is, I just can’t let late game happen. Unless we try tech stagnation or something.

I get your point but energy doesn't snowball on its own you know! The snowball effect is entirely the product of an energy vs mineral strategy which requires production and focus and that has its own major downsides. A military strategy also snowballs - every turn produces new cities, more pop, more research, more production, more units resulting in an unstoppable war machine - and given the risks associated with an energy strategy seems to me that the energy reward is pretty much in line.

I know what you mean though, there's a lot of interesting stuff late game which I've never used. I'm not even sure how most of it works to be honest.

I completely understand the mineral focus, and obviously in a standard MP game going for energy the way I did in this one isn't going to pay off (although it was good fun). But nevertheless, energy is well worth a lot of attention:

Of course, without crawlers an energy strategy is much less viable. It relies on channeling energy through a few highly-efficient/highly-developed cities, thus delivering both a serious return on infrastructure investment and optimal returns.

Thanks for the password! I haven't used it yet but I will. I hope you don't mind - it's a fast track back to the MP mind set and you really did play this game admirably well   :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Mart on November 14, 2015, 08:31:43 PM
Yes, the late game is a problem in SMACX, and my guess is, that they did not test it properly before the release. Like many projects in RL, deadlines and deadlines. So we may only consider modifications. The only problem is, any changes to gameplay cause that feeling: "it is not the same game"

But anyway, I remember playing shortly vanila civ4 multiplayer online. The game was typically until someone got iron first and by making swordsman rush conquered some other human players. Something like that. It was very early game. So in SMACX we at least play till like Doc:Air or copters.
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 17, 2015, 01:38:49 PM
Well, considering that’s your first game in such a long time, I can only imagine how hard it was fighting you back in the day.

When I saw your foil supply crawling energy, it reminded me that I used to be a die-hard builder as well. :D But after a while when I joined MP, I figured I must get rid of such habits as they hampered me. I mean, it used to be painful to skip a network node in favour of some unit. So the other day I set up a single-player game, a Morgan against 6 Usurpers on a tiny planet, lots of land. When all you build is 3 command centres throughout the whole game, you can free yourself from the shackles of perfectionism. :)

There are two elements which pushed me to the ‘pro-active’ approach (‘militarist’ is just a bad word, it’s 2015 so let’s be PC here). The first is that SMAC clearly prefers it. As you yourself pointed out, builders just have it harder. I’d say that if ‘militarist’ is -100, hybrid is 0 and pure builder is 100, then -20 is probably the optimum way to go. I mean, some basic facilities are too cheap not to build them (commons and tanks, also nodes in a few core bases, a project or two) but after that it’s just printing units, even if a bulk of them will be formers/crawlers. And it’s always better to have an away battle instead of visitors, at least in terms of destruction. A losing attacker can still obliterate some of your secret projects.

And then of course is the thrill. I still remember (2004/2005) an HtH where human Zak conquered a Hive coastal base with VW, far away from me. Far enough to think it’s safe. So I dispatched a foil probe, bought the base from under him and synchronized it with an invasion from precisely the other side of his faction… Oh the riots, oh the famine; I can still see that chaos like it was yesterday and how my hands were shaking when the probe entered the base… I felt that there was no going back to building H-Forests after that.

And such tricks are actually quite hard to pull off, too. They require map awareness, advanced planning, carefully selected army composition. When you want to achieve something 15-20 turns from now, it’s usually months in real time. Add some very tense navigation through fungus and other possible obstacles. Bottom line is, it’s stressful and long-term and people usually don’t expect it and therefore the damage dealt can be very huge.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to convince you here, I’m just saying what you already said – at the end of the day, if you’re a builder in SMAC then it's because you like it. And fair enough, you do.

I will want to play another game with you, maybe after some break as this game was really consuming to me! I tried, and failed, not to play when busy with work. But the fun was just too much, I couldn’t focus when my turn was in. This time we can seriously alter the environment – no crawlers, nerfed airforce or something. Maybe tech stagnation. And I want a faction stronger than Miriam. :)

Of course, there is this team play, though I don’t know if we find two more players for that. I’d love to have you on my side, but for the sake of balance we will probably have to go against each other. I will not be above going after you literally as soon as possible, so sorry in advance. Take it as a compliment. :D
Title: Re: Law&Faith - TTT
Post by: Kirov on November 17, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
As for the 'no vendetta' thing, like I said I wouldn't dare to go against Misotu with that, and if I would then it'd be pure building, too. And I doubt my skills here, it's been ages since I actually transcended. I just think it would be swell to have transports full of probes which cannot be intercepted. Oh I would be so annoying. :)
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