New PBEM

[Yabcok]

So, is anyone interested in starting new PBEM (SMACX, 3-4 Humans)?
Y.

Update: still one more player needed!

Latest game settings agreed by all the players - please see the attachment.

[Wiglaf]

I would love a game. I just found my way here, so it will be my first multiplayer. Any preferences on factions involved/rules? I prefer  - - in that order.

[Kirov]

I'm in. No tech stag and no blind research and I'm fine with any other settings.

[Yabcok]

Hi,

It’s nice to see you want to join!

About exact rules and settings, my proposal is as follow – I’m attaching some kind of the template with a list of preferred settings, including the information which are preferred but optional, and which are “as a must”, at least for me.

If you could update the document using your own preferences (change preferred ones if you like and fix your own “as a must” if you have any) it should be the easiest way to find the final settings. What do you think about such a plan? If you like it we can start from Wiglaf to not to do it in parallel...

Yabcok

[Wiglaf]

My rules, only notable change is that i prefer blind research because it makes things interesting (less predictable etc.)

[Kirov]

And some minor comments from me.

[Yabcok]

So it seems we have a really nice picture of preferred settings...

The list of things we have to take closer look at are:

1)   Blind research, tech stag and additional units (colony pods) on game start.

It seems we have slightly different views regarding accelerated start and (in general) tech-taking speed, but fortunately no one stated any settings “as a must”, so we should find some compromise. What do you think about such a compromise:

•   direct research (in other case it will be really unlikely to find any builders who want to join);
•   tech stag turned on (to not to rip through tech–tree with lightening speed);
•   one more Colony Pod and one more Scout Patrol on game start.
   
Please for opinion or any different proposals – I’ll follow your decision.

2)   AI & map size.

For me it’s fine to play with or without AI on any map. What do you think about such a plan:

•   wait for one more human to join;
•   play with AI (but no Morgan, Pirates or Uni as AI);
•   with 7 players onboard (4HP + 3AI) choose Large map.

?

3)   Copters (limiting attack factor to 4).

For me it’s OK. I personally would vote for something a bit greater ( 6 or 8 ), but I’ll follow your opinion.

PS. Modifying Alphax.txt file seems not to be a convenient solution, especially if someone plays several games at the time, but there is one thing I used to do in such circumstances – instead of copying appropriate file before every turn (indeed really annoying), I just kept several instances of the game on my hard drive with appropriate Alphax.txt for every instance (named like a game, to always choose the one which is needed), what made me happy and not scared about modified file for every game. Now I’m happy with everything without any additional solutions because my game capacity is equal to 1...     

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but regarding everything else it seems we are compatible...

Few other things:

4)   Patches.

My awareness finishes on official v2. Any suggestion about unofficial ones it will be rational to use?

5)   Factions.

I’m for Cultists.

6)   Game rules.

What about attached ones?

[Wiglaf]

Your changes look fine to me. I am not partial to blind research, i'm just not experienced enough to use directed to its full potential yet (ironically, i actually play a builder game on blind, so i am looking forward to seeing what i was missing). It is the progenitors who always kill me on transcend, so if we have other AI it should be fine. Also, out of interest, why would you ban the Empath Guild? It seems pretty benign to me, commlinks, vote bonus and infiltrators are nice, but don't seem to impact my games horribly much. And a kind of newb question, but copters can attack multiple times per turn? I had no idea.  is my favorite faction if that is all right, but since you don't even want him as an AI i am also willing to play  .

[Yabcok]

Your changes look fine to me. I am not partial to blind research, i'm just not experienced enough to use directed to its full potential yet (ironically, i actually play a builder game on blind, so i am looking forward to seeing what i was missing).

Playing against humans you will have to learn how to use full potential of your research- the sooner, the better...

It is the progenitors who always kill me on transcend, so if we have other AI it should be fine.

We will surely won’t choose progenitors – they are a bit too powerful even in AI’s hands, making the game unbalanced.

Also, out of interest, why would you ban the Empath Guild? It seems pretty benign to me, commlinks, vote bonus and infiltrators are nice, but don't seem to impact my games horribly much.

“Knowing your enemy is the quickest path to victory”.

Do not underestimate infiltration - in many games it’s a key to victory, so EG is considered to be too powerful by many players, including me. 

And a kind of newb question, but copters can attack multiple times per turn? I had no idea.”

Yes they can.

is my favorite faction if that is all right, but since you don't even want him as an AI i am also willing to play  .

Zak is a very good choice (but be aware that he is also one of the most difficult factions to play). We don’t want him in AI’s hands because AI is cheating, so he dig through tech tree with a really lightening speed and then spread knowledge among all other players.   

[Kirov]

Yabcok, thanks for that file, it's good to have the rules in one place, although to be honest, most of the boil down to "don't exploit the bugs", which is one general rule I'd like all of us to follow.

Hence, I'm rather against upgrading crawlers and then cashing them for instabuild - I'm quite sure it's not the way they are designed. Similarly, I shun retro-engineering - building exactly the same kind of unit is fine in my book, but using specific modules for other designs doesn't sit well with me - as the probe-to-rover bug shows, it was probably a hole in design.

Also, I'm quite sure the part about +4 PROBE is irrelevant, as the bug is fixed in patch v.2. Or am I wrong? I'm not sure, but something about Data Angels definitely got fixed.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of tech stagnation as I'd like to finally bring one game to a conclusion, and tech stag is the last thing to help with that.

Question - why no Morgan, Pirates or Uni as AI?

Patch - the latest patch by scient is the minimum, we can also (and I'd appreciate that) try out the new patch by kyrub, which enhances AI behaviour.

As to game copies - I did that for kyrub's patch, but GOG version works funny when copied just like that, I don't want to have an unstable version for MP. As far as I know, alphax.txt doesn't need any changes if we don't play with more serious modification (increased price of CBA, chopper movement cut in half, etc.).

Wiglaf: Empath Guild is banned quite common and I'm also in favour of that. It's all about infiltration, really - you'd better do your best to prevent others from infiltrating you (protective probe teams, sensor networks, scouts and the like) and EG gives free intel you don't have a single chance to avert. CBA is also OP.

My factions - I still don't know, let us wait for a fourth one first.

Copters - another idea to bring them wee down is to ban attacking base tiles with choppers. Let me know which one you prefer.

[Kirov]

One more thing:

This rule:

1.4. Attempts on catching native life forms using multiple units with Confirm Odds option turned on are allowed (decision to join or to not to is generated only once per turn but it’s generated separately for every new unit trying to catch NLF).

What is it about? I've never heard about any capture bug/issue and I thought I knew all of them. Wasn't it something fixed with patches?

[Kirov]

Yep, I just checked my copy (GOG, all official patches, scient's on the top of that) - +4 PROBE is no longer treated as zero, i.e. Data Angels with Covert Ops are properly immune to MC.

EDIT: typo.

[Yabcok]

Yabcok, thanks for that file, it's good to have the rules in one place, although to be honest, most of the boil down to "don't exploit the bugs", which is one general rule I'd like all of us to follow.

Hence, I'm rather against upgrading crawlers and then cashing them for instabuild - I'm quite sure it's not the way they are designed. Similarly, I shun retro-engineering - building exactly the same kind of unit is fine in my book, but using specific modules for other designs doesn't sit well with me - as the probe-to-rover bug shows, it was probably a hole in design.

Also, I'm quite sure the part about +4 PROBE is irrelevant, as the bug is fixed in patch v.2. Or am I wrong? I'm not sure, but something about Data Angels definitely got fixed.

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of tech stagnation as I'd like to finally bring one game to a conclusion, and tech stag is the last thing to help with that.

Question - why no Morgan, Pirates or Uni as AI?

Patch - the latest patch by scient is the minimum, we can also (and I'd appreciate that) try out the new patch by kyrub, which enhances AI behaviour.

As to game copies - I did that for kyrub's patch, but GOG version works funny when copied just like that, I don't want to have an unstable version for MP. As far as I know, alphax.txt doesn't need any changes if we don't play with more serious modification (increased price of CBA, chopper movement cut in half, etc.).

Wiglaf: Empath Guild is banned quite common and I'm also in favour of that. It's all about infiltration, really - you'd better do your best to prevent others from infiltrating you (protective probe teams, sensor networks, scouts and the like) and EG gives free intel you don't have a single chance to avert. CBA is also OP.

My factions - I still don't know, let us wait for a fourth one first.

Copters - another idea to bring them wee down is to ban attacking base tiles with choppers. Let me know which one you prefer.

1)   Upgrading crawlers and retro-engineering.

We can ban them both if you wish – for me it’s doesn’t matter – I only want to be sure that we all play using the same guidelines.

2)   "Don't exploit the bugs" approach.

It’s really rational, but from my own experience not always enough – see upgrading crawlers and retro-engineering for example...

3)   Tech stag.

I believe we will bring this game into conclusion, no matter the settings...

But if you strongly prefer tech stag to be turned off, we can do it that way – I see tech stag as something that supports a good balance between builders and momentum-orientated factions chances to win, but I’m ready and willing to play without it. 

4)   Why no Morgan, Pirates or Uni as AI?

Because of previous experiences - it’s really common that they spread cash+Industrial Automation (Morgan), commlinks (Pirates) and techs (Uni) what in many cases makes the game more dependent on random events (it can really kick one ahead to meet them on early game, get pacted and cut all the others from precious resources).   

5)   Patches.

So let we try that Kyrub’s one...

6)   Data Angels bug.

The rules are from 2005 – I guess most of the bugs have been indeed addressed since that time. 

7)   Multiple attempts on catching NLF.

That’s something like upgrading crawlers – if you think every unit should have its chance to capture NLF it’s ok, if not, you should turn “confirm odds” option off (if odds are displayed it means that NLF won’t join so you can decide not to attack and try using another unit – decision is generated by-turn-by-every-unit-separately not by-turn-no-matter-the-unit). I don’t think it’s a bug so I doubt if it has been “fixed”.

[Kirov]

1)   Upgrading crawlers and retro-engineering.

We can ban them both if you wish – for me it’s doesn’t matter – I only want to be sure that we all play using the same guidelines.

If you're so kind, yes please - I'd like to banned them both, although building the same design of probed units is fine for me.

2)   "Don't exploit the bugs" approach.

It’s really rational, but from my own experience not always enough – see upgrading crawlers and retro-engineering for example...

I only mention it because that list isn't complete - for example, it doesn't mention trading bases with AI or same-turn SE choice exploit. It goes without saying that such behaviour should be unacceptable as well.

Tech stag - ok, let's try it out. I see you prefer early confrontation anyway.


AI - fine.

Patches - remember to add XP fix on your v2., then scient's, then kyrub's (we can go either with the earlier one or the later, beta one; I prefer the latter).

NLF - ok, understood. Yeah, it's not a big deal and I always confirm the odds anyway.

[Wiglaf]

My game has no patches save for the official ones i think, so i need to know where to get /how to install needed patches. I am running the sold out software version of SMACX on windows 7 if that is at all relevant. Not familiar with retro engineering, but i can guess. how does it work specifically? That way i can avoid doing it if i do already. Otherwise, everything sounds fine.