Nomads GotM - deadline December 20th

[Earthmichael]

Hello, I'd like to submit a game. The year is 2234, empty Gaia's Landing awaits you. That was fun!   

I let Morgan live too long and didn't monitor him, that was my biggest mistake. But I'll share my thoughts later, now it's time to sleep (it's actually 7 AM here).

That was fast!  On my first play through, I did not even start to attack until 2228!  Now I have the motivation to see if I can match this excellent time!

[Kirov]

Aah, what can I say in my defence, I'm a man of fun, not of work. I didn't contribute much to global GNP today.

But I can contribute to this topic of ours! I managed to shave off 7 turns, it's 2227 and I come a-knocking to the last of Lal's doors.

[Earthmichael]

When did you get MMI?  Did you wait for MMI to make your attack?  I presume you did.

[Kirov]

When did you get MMI?  Did you wait for MMI to make your attack?  I presume you did.

I won't recall the MY (request for scenario creators: please don't make it Iron Man, people won't cheat anyway and it makes it hard to keep track of events or handle game crashes), but it might have been something around 2110. What worked for me was this:

- trade as much as you can with Santiago and Morgan
- wait with FM until you get contact with Deirdre, trade some more
- switch to FM, then Demo (and pact with Lal) (I always agree to war with Miriam, why not)
- focus everything you have on research and beeline to MMI (after D:AP I couldn't get NG, I had to to take Centauri Empathy/Meditation); I used librarians, tree farms and one research hospital
- when you beeline, don't build combat-related stuff, but rather tech-related
- when doing NG, prepare Aerospace Complexes and infantry to be upgraded to Drop units
- immediately after MMI, switch to Green, 90% ECON, in the next turn switch to Fundie
- mow down Uni

Yes, at my second attempt (2227) I waited with the attack for MMI. There is little point in attacking earlier, Zak has air to take down your 6-1-2 units. But I might have done something wrong strategically here. I never know, sometimes AI sees my units in fungus, sometimes it doesn't.

Apart from SFF and MMI, the only techs necessary to deal with AI is Fusion Power and String Theory. Infiltrate beforehand to know whom to rob.

Also, I didn't build any SP. More crawlers and formers instead.

I used nerve gas against Morgan, who is the toughest nut to crack on this Planet.

[Earthmichael]

Request for scenario creators: please don't make it Iron Man, people won't cheat anyway and it makes it hard to keep track of events or handle game crashes

I totally agree with this!  The Iron Man made it much, much harder to do the AAR!

Kirov, thanks for the incentive to better my time!

I am posting a win date of 2222.  Just air drop a unit into the last city to win the game.  Even though I used fewer turns, it took a lot longer in real time than my first try.  I must have spent over 10 hours on this!  If you can beat 2222, you win; I won't replay again.

Thanks for another fun scenario!

[Kirov]

5 turns, excellent work! So tell me your story, did you attack pre-MMI? What did you do to get it as early as possible? Was Morgan the toughest guy or somebody else? Any interesting situations? I see that you built CF. I was wondering about it but figured it could be useful for A6, not A8 or 10.

I'm not trying to beat your result, I'm done for a while. Maybe if we had like two weeks more, but I started playing too late. And although I saw some room for improvement in my game, it'd still be polishing the same strategy, just being more attentive to details. So I'll pass, you deserve it.

If you started pre-MMI, I want to know. I was thinking about a slightly different strategy, attacking with 6-1-2, maybe amphibious, to quickly pummel Zak and Morgan into submission. Then you don't have to focus so much on teching. When I played OCC I noticed that Morgan was very generous with tech gifting and he gave me D:AP and MMI for free. However, I couldn't replicate that in standard Nomads with 5 bases, probably Morgan AI considered me a threat. Still, extorting air techs from AI could push the victory by several turns more.

Of course, you have to wait for Zak to build HSA. The fact that he does it is actually a gift to the player.

Some feedback for the creators, apart from thank you very much that was time well wasted:

- don't make it Iron Man, especially for AAR
- make sure that SE settings are fine (I wrote about Wealth above)
- the game would be much tougher if we couldn't trade techs from Santiago and Morgan in turn 1; make sure you take it into account (I don't know if it was designed or not)

- last but not least - please post the exact rules for the scenario! What makes really huge difference in Nomads is Cooperative victory. If it's on, then we with Earthmike were being silly and could have easily cut our times by several turns. I didn't want to test it because of Iron Man so I assumed it's off. But this thing was important here and it could actually affect the choice of strategy (I definitely would consider attacking Morgan earlier and make him my pet lab faction)

Which reminds me of one thing, I'll verify it soon - I had an impression while playing Nomads that I didn't accumulate lab points from capturing bases when my tech slider was at 0%. Is it true?

Anyway, many thanks to the creators and I'm looking forward to the next GotM! 

[Earthmichael]

I did not attack pre-MMI.  I don't really see how to make a go of that.  You really need the overpowered Choppers for a fast victory! 

The only thing I see that might have sped my research a bit was that I built Research Hospitals in all of my 5 original bases for the extra 50% Labs bonus.  It was a bit of a tradeoff to get the energy to rush build the Research Hospitals.  But I figured the extra 50% bonus would quickly pay me back for the turns that I went 100% economy to get the energy to rush build.

I did steal one tech from the Gaians that help me advance to MMI.  (Even though I had a pact with Gaia, they would not trade techs.)

I built only one SP.  I figured +2 morale for everything I built was worth it.

I did not keep 100% in economy.  I continued research until I got 10 Attack.  I did not attack Morgan until I had this.  The 6 Attack was good enough to defeat everyone else, so I started with University, then Sparta, then Believers.  At this point I got the 10 Attack, so I built a force of 10X Choppers to attack Morgan, while my initial force took care of everyone else.

I thought the rules stated that all bases had to be captured, so I did not accept any of the surrender offers. But as Kirov mentioned, that could have saved quite a few turns.

[Kirov]

The rules just say it's conquest victory, and with co-op on you can win with by putting everyone into submission. And even with co-op off it'd be worth considering to enslave somebody before finishing everyone else off. And of course this option would affect your use of atrocities.

You pacted with Dee? So you didn't use FM? Do you recall your tech rate (to MMI)? I remember I had to wait like 9 turns to NG and then MMI (under FM). But even one tech to MMI received from the Lady would be more useful than FM. On the yet third hand, I wonder if I could have got D:AP from Morgan after gifting him with a Uni's base...  Talk about machaviellism.

I switched to 90% cash immediately after MMI, interesting. Fusion, A8 and A10 I stole. I remember the worst thing that slowed me down was damage to my A6 choppers, so your approach does seem very much in order.

Anyways, chapeau bas, I see you at the next GotM!    I hope they cook up some insanely hard scenario. Gentlemen, hurt us. 

[Earthmichael]

I used FM until I got MMI, then I switched to Green.

When I first contacted Gaia, I switched to Green to impress her.  The next turn (because there is a one turn lag for effect) I contacted Gaia and pacted, but she would not trade NG to me!  So I went back to FM, and stole NG with my elite probe cruiser, framing Morgan, and keeping the pact with Gaia!

Gaia never was willing to trade me a single tech the entire game, probably because she thought I was too powerful.

My tech rate right before MMI was 4 turns/tech with 100% labs allocation.  This is due to pacts with Morgan, Uni, Gaia, and PK, 3 boreholes, Research labs everywhere, and a bunch of HQ crawlers crawling energy from high solar collectors.  So I am sure stealing NG got me to MMI at least 4 turns earlier than I would have gotten on my own.

[Earthmichael]

Pacting with Uni has to be done on turn 1, before the SE settings actually take effect.  Opening the SE panel on turn 1 to cancel Wealth costs you 40 EC (based on Kirov's report that you will get Wealth for free on turn 2 if you don't open the SE panel), but I think it is worth it for the pact with Uni.  Otherwise, Wealth will turn Uni off.  Also, I think Uni will be turned off by any kind of relationship with Sparta and/or Morgan.

So I moved my probe cruiser to touch the Uni former on Turn 1, and talked to Uni before anyone else, traded Uni as much tech as they wanted, and was able to get a pact.  Only afterwards did I talk to Sparta and Morgan, and trade techs with them.

I think I covered this in my AAR, but I wanted to mention it specifically, because I got the impression that Kirov did not have a pact with Uni.  This pact provides a bit of extra energy to help speed things along.

[Kirov]

Yes, the Pact with Uni can do it, I see it now!

In my games, Zak just demanded SotB and either way didn't want go to past Truce. Dee - Treaty if I waited with FM, Truce if I didn't.

Yeah, I need to remember that. I don't have the habit of changing SE for the AI's sake, especially as most hate Wealth anyway. I thought I'm making a big sacrifice to wait with FM until I meet Dee. Oh well, I like her so much and she always hates me. You can't have both money and love, I guess. 

[Earthmichael]

I don't think Dee minds Wealth, but she hates FM and loves Green.  In my case, I had to agree to Vendetta against the Believers (who I already planned to kill next anyway) to get a pact.  And I had switched to Green the turn before to butter her up.

But even with that, she just will not trade techs!  It seems practically every tech she researches has some secret project she wants to build first.  I think this is one aspect of the AI that is screwed up: instead of just not offering the tech that they want to keep to themselves for now, they will not trade any tech at all if they are planning to build a project based on a tech they have.

[Kirov]

Yeah, Deedee hates my FM which I'm so fond of, and Wealth, which is a must for most factions, is hated by Zak, Sparta, Cha Dawn and Pirates.

You worked around the problem of Lady D not selling techs by probing her. Well done but obviously not 100% sure if you want to frame. If I was to attempt Nomads again, I think I would enslave Zak and give one of his bases (even two) to Dee and try to get NG this way. Even if the coop is off, you can then easily finish Zak off and recapture Gaian bases just before the end.

Getting NG from Dee is an important thing on the way to quick conquest. Even giving her several very good techs (but not Silksteel Alloys) and 1-2 bases could be worth it.

Similarly, Morgan has D:AP before you and doesn't want to share. I've always wondered what's the underlying mechanics for AI's attitude towards you. I don't mean the obvious like they hate you if you're strong, but the impact of trades, gifts and SE on their willingness to cooperate.

[Earthmichael]

At the point I probed her, I had an elite cruiser, so the odds were highly in my favor to frame successfully.  And pacting with Dee was making an already strong Morgan stronger.  (Which makes me wonder, why would Dee pack with Morgan in the first place???)

The scenario rules definitely should spell out the surrender issue.  It would definitely have been to my advantage to accept Zak's surrender and use him as a research tool.  It would also have allowed me to move on to Sparta sooner, and the 3 bases that Zak had left when he surrendered did not make that much difference to my game.

Another good thing about your idea of giving a base or two to Dee, is if she still does not cooperate, they are very accessible for probing.

I think SPs have a lot to do with AI tech trades.  I think the reason you could not trade for D:AP, is because there is a secret project associated with it.  Same with Dee being reluctant to trade; it seemed she always had a SP in the works, and she would take to me after completion.

[Kirov]

Another good thing about your idea of giving a base or two to Dee, is if she still does not cooperate, they are very accessible for probing.

I realized one obvious flaw in my idea - to give her a base, I'd have to fight Zak before MMI.  Alternatively, I could give her one of my own bases (in my last attempt I starved down one base to fit it for FM military and it was my biggest mistake as I switched to Green soon; the base was impaired so I could trade it). Still, it's something that would need improving.

I think SPs have a lot to do with AI tech trades.  I think the reason you could not trade for D:AP, is because there is a secret project associated with it.  Same with Dee being reluctant to trade; it seemed she always had a SP in the works, and she would take to me after completion.

I can't say I share your experience that if AI is building something, then it won't trade even those techs which are not related to that SP (D:AP doesn't give any Project). I believe they don't trade just that one technology. But then again, I'm no expert on AI as usually I don't pay much attention to it. In most cases they don't have anything I want, and if they demand something, I just tell them to eff off.

It's quite likely that in order to really push down the number of turns in scenarios like this, proper handling of AI will be crucial.