Reimagined Original Factions

[bvanevery]

If you prohibit Frontier, Survival, or None, I wonder if the game crashes?  How does a faction start, if a default category is prohibited?

I have Power with -2 GROWTH, rather than assigning it to a faction.  If you like to make war, you get people killed.

[Nexii]

If you do say Economics, Simple, nil  then it just means you can't go back to Simple. Doesn't seem to crash the game

What I mean is it seems you can only disallow one total SE choice. Say for example I wanted to disallow both Planned and Green for Morgan. Maybe there's way I don't know of, but multple lines or putting them in one line doesn't seem to work.

[Bearu]

If you do not care about AI interests in specific Social effects, then you can ignore the following spoiler. I thought the following information might assist your future faction development in terms of AI emphasises.

(click to show/hide)

The AI possesses two sets of controls for many of the social factors. The version released for the final game targets more specific factions. The information below provides information on the special emphasis the AI places on specific social effects based on the combination of BUILD, EXPLORE, DISCOVER, and CONQUER mandates. The AI aggressiveness factors into the decisions in certain places, and I note the aggressiveness of the AI with the label of Fight. Each social effect receives additional modifiers from specific sources, but the exact details remain lengthy and transparent to most players. If you have specific questions, then please ask me.

ECONOMY:

Build: X 2
Build and Conquer: X 1
Build and Explore: X 1
Build and Discover: X 2
Any combination of Build with any other emphasis equals X 1
Any other combination of emphasis without Build yields X 1
Maximum interest yielded from Build and Discover combination from special value.

SUPPORT: Modify the value with the appropriate combination of Mandate combinations

Fight = 1: X 2

Explore: X 1.5
Discover: X .75
Build: X .5
Conquer: X 1.5

MORALE: (-4 to +4)

MORALE * (Fight + 2)
Fight 2 or higher (unused in stock game): X 2
Conquer: X 2
Conquer and Discover: X 2 (Spartans)
Conquer and Build: X 1 (Hive)
Conquer and Explore: X 1 (Believers)
Any other combination yields: X 1

Fight =< -1:
Conquer: X 1
Conquer and Explore: X 1
Conquer and Discover: X 1
Conquer and Build: X 1
Build and Explore: X .5 when the faction remains in a war mode
Discover: X.5 when the faction remains in a war mode.
Discover and Explore: X .5 when the faction remains in a war mode.
Discover and Build: X .5 when the faction remains in a war mode.
Explore ONLY: X1 (Gaians)
Conquer, Discover, Explore, and Build: X 1

EFFICIENCY:

Build: X 2 (The Morganites and the Drones)
Build and Conquer: X 1 (The Hive)
Build, Explore, and Conquer: X 1
Build, Discover, Explore, and Conquer: X 1
Conquer: X .5
Conquer and Explore: X .5 (The Believers)
Discover: X 2 (The University)
Discover and Conquer: X .5 (The Spartans)
Discover and Explore: X 1 (The Peacekeepers)
Discover and Build: X 2
Explore: X 1 (The Gaians)

PLANET:

Non-Conquer and Explore (In this specific order):
Explore and Discover: X 1 (The Peacekeepers)
Explore: X 4 (The Gaians)

Non-Conquer and Non-Explore (In this specific order):
Build: X .5 (The Morganites)
Build and Discover: X.5
Discover: X .5 (The University)

Conquer and any other mandate (In the order below):
Conquer and Explore: X 1 (The Believers)
Conquer and Discover: X .25 (The Spartans)
Conquer and Build: X .25 (The Hive)
Conquer, Discover, and Build: X .25
Conquer, Explore, and Discover: X 1
Conquer, Build, Discover, and Explore: X 1

GROWTH:
Conquer and Explore: X 2 (The Believers)
All other combinations receive X 1

Special positive emphasis for Explore
Small negative emphasis for Build
Faction bonus of POPULATION < 0: X .5

POLICE:
X 1 for all factions

TALENT:
Explore and Discover: X 2
Conquer: X 1
Conquer and Explore: X 1
Conquer and Discover: X .5 (Spartans)
Conquer and Build: X .5 (Hive)
Conquer, Discover, and Build: X .5
Conquer, Discover, and Explore: X .5
Conquer, Discover, Build, and Explore: X .5
All other combinations receive a X 1.

RESEARCH:
X 1 for all factions

INDUSTRY: The bonuses stack with each other
Conquer: X 2
Build: X 1.5
Discover: X .5

Fight < 0:
Any faction without a Build emphasis: X .5

Build factions receive an additional small emphasis for Industry

PROBE:
Ignore for any social model without a PROBE modifier
X .5 for each pact with another faction
Ignore the modifiers until the faction emphasis if the first faction "wants revenge" with the second faction
X .5 for each treaty with another faction
X. 5 for each faction the current faction does not have a truce with
X .5 for each faction the current faction is not at war with
Any emphasis combination with Discover or Build: X 2

[bvanevery]

You really shouldn't hide good information.     Not like people's browsers don't have scroll bars on them.

The AI possesses two sets of controls for many of the social factors. The version released for the final game targets more specific factions. The information below provides information on the special emphasis the AI places on specific social effects based on the combination of BUILD, EXPLORE, DISCOVER, and CONQUER mandates. The AI aggressiveness factors into the decisions in certain places, and I note the aggressiveness of the AI with the label of Fight. Each social effect receives additional modifiers from specific sources, but the exact details remain lengthy and transparent to most players. If you have specific questions, then please ask me.

GROWTH:
Conquer and Explore: X 2 (The Believers)
All other combinations receive X 1

Special positive emphasis for Explore
Small negative emphasis for Build
Faction bonus of POPULATION < 0: X .5

This one caught my interest.  I went through a very long phase of my modding where Explore Conquer was a frequent combo for quite a number of factions.  It was based upon the idea that somehow, Explore was making the factions colonize much better.  Something shifted at some point in my modding work, and then Build seemed to be working as a basis for colonization just fine when previously it didn't.  The spread pattern was different, Build would tend to result in a more clustered empire instead of a "Believer sprawl".  I changed lots of factions from Explore Conquer to Build Conquer.  Then eventually some of the Build Conquer factions I changed to straight up Conquer.  For instance the Hive.  My Yang doesn't need stuff to make people happy, he just uses overwhelming POLICE repression.

[Nexii]

Good stuff. I did notice the AI is smart enough to pick morale more when at war and less when it's not. It feels there is some additional logic where the level of threat is considered, distance or perhaps power level of their vendetta relations.

I thought about University more and I think -GROWTH fits them due to their questionable research methods on humans. There would be some killed or otherwise left unable to reproduce. It kind of makes them a bit like CyCon with my SE set, research factions that can't pop boom. University can only get to +5 growth and that's with golden age, creche, and wealth. CyCon can get to +4 growth with wealth and creche but they can't get a golden age realistically until maybe very late game. I guess like Gaia and Cult the difference is in their aggression level, and that's enough to feel different to me. University researches much faster, whereas CyCon has to conquer cities to really get going.

[Bearu]

Good stuff. I did notice the AI is smart enough to pick morale more when at war and less when it's not. It feels there is some additional logic where the level of threat is considered, distance or perhaps power level of their vendetta relations.

You remain very perceptive.
The AI receives an additional modifier under a flag set outside the function. The exact function and routine starts when an flag triggers in several functions. The flag is complex but the basic facts is this: The flag only starts around 20 * Difficulty Level (0 for Intense Rivalry)) mission years and the faction remains at war.
If the faction is not of the weakest two remaining factions in might, then the game checks the faction's number of technologies discovered under a technology point system. If the current faction remains behind by 5 or more techs but less than 10, then multiply the AI's interest in MORALE and INDUSTRY by 2, Divide AI's interest in ECONOMY by 1/2, and add checks for an additional bonus for PLANET (ignored for factions with base PLANET from SOCIAL modifier aka Gaians and Cult of Planet).
If the faction lags by 10 or more tech points, you divide interest in ECONOMY by 3 and multiple interest in MORALE and INDUSTRY by 3. You keep the same PLANET check from previous modifier.

I thought about University more and I think -GROWTH fits them due to their questionable research methods on humans. There would be some killed or otherwise left unable to reproduce. It kind of makes them a bit like CyCon with my SE set, research factions that can't pop boom. University can only get to +5 growth and that's with golden age, creche, and wealth. CyCon can get to +4 growth with wealth and creche but they can't get a golden age realistically until maybe very late game. I guess like Gaia and Cult the difference is in their aggression level, and that's enough to feel different to me. University researches much faster, whereas CyCon has to conquer cities to really get going.

I concur with your conclusion on the difference between CyCon and the University. I always felt the University benefited more from horizontal spread than vertical spread because of lab bonuses from Free network nodes or the RESEARCH bonus. Killing people for research and educated people producing less children matches your decision.

[Nexii]

What kinds of bonuses and penalties do other people give to the Free Drones? Always felt they were too similar to the Believers. Industry and support are a bit different in theme but when playing them they feel similar

I suppose hurry costs sets them apart somewhat. +Effic could fit them but already gave that to 2 factions. I wanted to keep bonuses and penalties limited to 2 factions at most

as far as negative I could see maybe -Planet

I thought maybe something like NODRONE, 100 might be interesting. It's too bad there isn't a modifier like NOTALENT to wipe out talents like a punishment sphere. Would be kind of fitting for either CyCon or Free Drones

[Bearu]

I might try MORALE, 0 because the benefit prevents negative morale modifiers from drone riots. Who better to stay calm and disciplined in a drone riot than the Free Drones? The benefit also alleviates negative morale modifiers from Wealth and Eudiamonic in the stock game while still mantaining the 1/2 military modifiers from -2 or lower morale.
You could also try robust, Morale or Immunity, Morale. If your industry bonuses from social models provide morale penalties, then it fulfills a similar purpose and improves the Free Drone's selection of INDUSTRY bonuses.

[bvanevery]

Details Miriam

Miriam

Aggressive, Build and Conquer.  AI has no social compulsion at all.  Christians could do anything.  If you can get on their good side, you tend to stay on their good side.  But if they decide they don't like you, you can't butter them up with any social engineering choice.

Details Domai

Domai

Erratic, Build and Conquer.  JUSTICE is my version of EFFIC.

[Nexii]

I'll try robust - police on Drones, I think it works on a pacifist interpretation. Since they know slavery they are more tolerant to the downsides of freedom. Morale could be fitting too, these are generally benefits that favor running peaceful SEs

Yea I've gone kind of back and forth on Mirian being Erratic or Aggressive. The new factions felt more aggressive so she got pushed down

No Cybernetic definitely makes sense for Miriam there's even a few quotes from her in game about that. Thing is future SEs come so late that it's more of a flavor benefit than one that has any impact. Which is ok I guess, this is more of a flavor thread.

Of all the factions who should get Power aversion? I never really felt it fit the data angels really. PKs and Gaia sort of have bigger aversions and you can only give one aversion. Maybe it's ok theme wise if they can all run Power, they all want to win and dominate

[bvanevery]

Thing is future SEs come so late that it's more of a flavor benefit than one that has any impact.

Not true in my mod.  They come midgame and they are not overpowered.

Of all the factions who should get Power aversion?

Nobody.  It's a stupid idea.  Ditto Wealth aversion for the Cultists.  Most of my aversions are in Politics.  My only Values aversion is Santiago keeps her anti-Wealth.

[Nexii]

It's too bad the AI isn't smart enough to rebuild Punishment Spheres. You can knock out this version of CyCon kind of easily that way. I was thinking too if you lose a P sphere in a base you could abuse 2x research but thats kind of hard to set up, since a probe has to target it. Plus theres the issue of drone control. You could let it riot but thats a pretty big downside. I guess its not a huge deal, if the AI loses the base and recaptures then it gets the Sphere back. Kind of clunky but it gives them a weakness that's thematic.

Drones still feel unique enough at +1 IND I guess. Unlike Morgan they can run Planned, so they get the best INDUSTRY. They're kind of a PKs/Morgan mashup which I guess makes sense in theme.

CyCon is a more aggressive University with some Hive flavor
Cult is a more aggressive Gaia with some Believers flavor
Angels are a more aggressive Morgan (imo this makes more theme sense than being PK wannabes, since Rose is ex-Morgan)
Pirates are Sparta on sea, with milder bonuses and penalties

And yea I agree no Democracy makes most sense for Cult. Free Market doesn't benefit them on fungus squares. Or you can just give them negative ECON, kinda works out similar

[bvanevery]

Actually the game seems to be bugged.  Bases where I've built a Punishment Sphere, and then subsequently trashed it when my society moved on and I had enough happiness to go around, I can't rebuild them.  There's no option for it, the icon is gone.  I only noticed this pretty late in my game.  I didn't actually want to build one again, but waffling about punishment is not allowed!   

My Angels are death hackers, not money makers.  I don't require them to infiltrate factions to get free techs that 3 factions have.  In the real world, that's impractical for the AI.  I honestly don't know if their mad hacking skillz are even useful to them.  But acquiring free techs for nothing, definitely makes them powerful, and able to just concentrate on the next best weapon.

I actually tried a moneymaker version of the Angels once, on the justification that they'd need money to buy bases.  It didn't work.  Maybe I should revisit that idea again sometime, but for now, they seem balanced relative to other factions in my mod.

[Nexii]

It seems that a base can't build a Punishment Sphere if you have a Paradise Garden. I wonder if an earlier version of Paradise Garden gave all talents then they decided it was too good....its cost always seemed out of whack

Yea the infiltrate version was pretty well useless. The AI does infiltrate some but by the time you do it's kind of too late. And it just makes Empath Guild or such too critical.

[Nexii]

Lots of testing ahead to balance them out! One thing I've found is that pure CONQUER factions never really play very well no matter how you set the tech priorities. They never build up much infrastructure so even if they overrun someone they fall way behind by midgame. So I think I'm going to avoid setting anyone to pure CONQUER