SMACX AI Growth mod

[bvanevery]

I'm finding that Capitalist has a pretty substantial tradeoff in late midgame.  By that time, one typically has Advanced Ecological Engineering and fungus squares are worth 2-1-1.  That can be somewhat helpful from a food and minerals standpoint.  However Capitalist gives a -3 PLANET penalty which completely wipes those fungus improvements out.  Fungus becomes completely worthless!  But if I'm not doing a +3 POLICE style Police State, I really need some money to keep people happy.

I've been doing Power for a long time and I'm unwilling to shift to Wealth because I'm still fighting on the borders of my large empire.  I went Democratic to try to make money, but a +3 POLICE Police State is much better for keeping unhappiness suppressed.  I'm having all kinds of unhappiness problems sticking with Power, as the JUSTICE penalties definitely hurt.

Vonbach didn't think Capitalist does anything now, but choosing it at this stage of the game doubles my income, from 80 credits/turn to 160.  That's a huge jump when you're trying to finish expensive Secret Projects before others do.  You can't do that with Supply Crawlers or factories because those come rather late now.

So it's a challenge.  I'm thinking that's ok.  A faction with more JUSTICE would definitely have some advantages, but I'm playing the University.

I've often found it surprising that Socialist will make me more money than Green will, despite the -2 ECONOMY penalty.  For a sufficiently large empire, JUSTICE can be more important for making money.

[Vidsek]

          Interesting and useful observations.   I'm only 75 years into my current Yitzi/AIGrowth Merge game due to distractingly excellent weather outside, so hearing about your adventures is giving me some basis on which to plan my future strategies.
  Keep the reports coming!

[bvanevery]

I think my goal of forcing the player to make tradeoffs is working, both in the SE table and the Secret Projects.  However it's turned into a rather long game as a result.

I'm in the Fusion Power era now.  It's taken quite a while to get a big money flow and also supply crawlers, but now I can finish Secret Projects fairly quickly.  I'm not sure what I'm doing but I think "more troops" is probably the right idea. 

[vonbach]

I'm finding that Capitalist has a pretty substantial tradeoff in late midgame.  B

Vonbach didn't think Capitalist does anything now, but choosing it at this stage of the game doubles my income, from 80 credits/turn to 160.  That's a huge jump when you're trying to finish expensive Secret Projects before others do.  You can't do that with Supply Crawlers or factories because those come rather late now.

So it's a challenge.  I'm thinking that's ok.  A faction with more JUSTICE would definitely have some advantages, but I'm playing the University.

I've often found it surprising that Socialist will make me more money than Green will, despite the -2 ECONOMY penalty.  For a sufficiently large empire, JUSTICE can be more important for making money.

Oh it does something just not enough for the penalties in my opinion.

[bvanevery]

I still think you're not in the habit of mostly buying Secret Projects.  80 credits vs. 160 credits is a huge difference.  It's all about getting to +2 ECONOMY.

[vonbach]

Its still not remotely worth it for the penalty. Same with Fundamentalism.

[bvanevery]

Well how do you usually cough out your Secret Projects then?  What government?

Meanwhile, I find that Democratic Socialist Wealth Eudaimonic in the late game is good for money, good for pop booming, but I can't fight for a damn!  I've been trying to take over this coastal sea base of the Pirates since forever.  I've been too cheap to put real force on it, so I've mostly only sent old units against it.  That said, I did just send a bunch of really expensive Drop planes after it as well.  They all died.  So did all the old Marines I had stacked up.  -3 MORALE is a pretty serious penalty that does affect your ability to conquer anything.  I never learned the tech for the Cyborg Factory and no one else has either.  I'm building Hab Domes everywhere now.  I could win by voting myself Supreme Ruler.  Especially if I get Clinical Immortality, I think it's all over then.

Just realized my ECONOMY is 0.  I'm just wealthy beyond rational belief.  I should ditch Wealth because it won't affect my income at all.

Yeah, Democratic Socialist Power Eudaimonic works a lot better.  My MORALE is only +1, but I stomp stuff.  I can afford to put Gas or Wave on things.  In my mod they cost 4, aka a 100% cost increase.    Not a problem with Genejack Factories and Robotic Assembly Plants.

I am at +2 PLANET, as Eudaimonic gives +1, and controlling the Manifold Nexus gives another +1.  I have the Manifold Harmonics so my fungal patches are worth a fair amount now.  I could get even more if I went Green, but then I'd lose my pop boom.  I'm building Clinical Immortality and think I'm trying to win the game with a Diplomatic Victory.

[vonbach]

I get secret projects the old fashion way I build them.

[bvanevery]

With what in my mod?  You don't get Supply Crawlers or Genejack Factories until late midgame.  You'll never get enough Artifacts to build many SPs anymore, as I've raised the cost of SPs so much.  Do you seriously just sit around waiting for SPs to complete in 1 city?  It's a helluva lot easier to drop an enormous pile of cash on the problem.  Which means you need 2 of {Democratic, Capitalist, Wealth}.  You can do an Exploration based economy popping pods for a time, but you're only going to get so many SPs from that.  In recent games I've definitely gotten to the point that I've almost cleaned the entire map, and still haven't gotten to Supply Crawlers yet.

Meanwhile in my game, I believe I would have won already, but we're in sunspots.  Can't vote myself Supreme Leader.  I have been without advances in weapons and armor for a long time because those are "pure" Conquer categories of tech, and that's not part of my Explore, Discover research foci as the University.  You can get very far in the tech tree without gaining them, like Hab Dome / Secrets of the Manifolds far.  Only recently did I get some because I conquered some enemy bases with some Artifacts in them.  The best weapon of the game is still Missile Launchers.  At times I've tricked them out with extremely expensive Gas or Wave capabilities.  Now honestly I'm just waiting for the sunspots to lift because I believe I have the votes.  I build various Marines to go after Pirate sea bases next to me, but my effort is half-hearted.

Once I got the Cloning Vats (I mean it, you can get really far along without weapons and armor!) my final government form has become Democratic Green Power Eudaimonic.  Mainly because that gives +3 PLANET so it maximizes the benefit from the Manifold Harmonics.  Secondarily because +2 JUSTICE is useful.

[vonbach]

With what in my mod?  You don't get Supply Crawlers or Genejack Factories until late midgame.  You'll never get enough Artifacts to build many SPs anymore, as I've raised the cost of SPs so much.  Do you seriously just sit around waiting for SPs to complete in 1 city? 

I modded the governments long ago. But In your base mod I'd use Police state or democracy and green and maybe wealth.
Yes I do just wait for SP to be built I usually don't spend money on SP unless in emergencies. I typically go all forest except for a
few farms with solar so it doesn't take that long. The main issue is getting the cities to grow early game. So building SP doesn't take
that long for me. Most of my games are just plain over by the time the cloning vats are a thing.

[bvanevery]

Most of my games are just plain over by the time the cloning vats are a thing.

Well of course they are.  I put it nearly at the end of the tech tree for a reason.  Only reasons I've got now are 1) we're in sunspots and 2) I'm the University.  My research is inevitably accelerated even though I've never pursued Knowledge in this game.  I haven't built anywhere near the number of lab facilities I could have either.  Pretty much didn't bother with Corporate Labs except in my capitol.  Once I finally got Genejack Factories I did those and then Robotic Assembly Plants, preferring production to more research.  And my research is still way beyond anyone else's.

[vonbach]

I usually play shorter games honestly. It's not uncommon for my games to be over well before future societies come about.
Usually by either conquest or economic victory. Genejack factories are something I typically don't bother with  a lot.
Are they worth it for the drone in your opinion?

[bvanevery]

I've learned not to stew about drones.  Drones happen.  Buy things that get rid of them, or just ignore them or whatever.  When I transitioned through various governments, at some phases drones were more of an issue than others.  I played most of the earlier game as a +3 POLICE Police State.  Then for some reason I got it into my head that I wanted to make money, so I transitioned to a Democratic Whatever.  Once I was making a lot of money, and I think a 30-40-30 budget, I had way more happiness than drones were going to be a problem.

I've made more advanced military units very expensive in recent versions of my mod.  It's an almost geometric progression.  You need real production to make more advanced units.  Do you need advanced units at all?  My jury's out on that question.  What I actually ended up doing, was building Genejack Factories everywhere, Robotic Assembly Plants everywhere, discovering Hab Domes, setting off a pop boom, and building Hab Domes everywhere.  I've got the Empath Guild and Clinical Mortality and massive numbers of votes.

I think the factories have been useful for building the Domes.  Possibly I could have blown all that off and just used cash.  However, I've used my massive cash to buy even the newly super expensive SPs pretty darned quickly, like in 2 to 3 turns.  I'm really just waiting for sunspots to end, so I can declare myself Supreme Leader.  I could see what the price of Economic Victory is, because I wouldn't be surprised if that's within my reach.  And I haven't even learned Orbital Power Transmitters yet.

I still don't know how to play my mod.  But buying SPs outright is a proven strategy AFAIAC.  Whether I need factories or not, I don't know.  I put them later in the tech tree for a reason.  I don't think they're essential.  If a city gets to 20 minerals, it can produce stuff.  One thing that surprised me this game though, is I've been routinely doing 60..75 minerals and I'm not doing any eco-damage.  I guess the Pholus Mutagen and a lot of Hybrid Forests will work.

I've thrown some grossly expensive units into combat, like various Drop Needlejets, and have watched them seriously underperform in some cases.  Enough that I didn't, ah, renew the contract.  I'm still learning.

[vonbach]

Mostly what I build with your mod is armored infantry backed by unarmored rovers. Mindworms are nice as well as planes. But mostly
its infantry along the rail lines. The early mag tubes are one of the most notable changes it makes it a much different game.
Money I typically spend on buying a city with a probe team thats too small to capture or upgrading units.

[bvanevery]

I never buy cities and I rarely upgrade units.  The AI is usually too stupid to come and fight me, so there's not much point in garrisoning with expensive units.  I'm far more likely to make a new defensive unit some time in the distant future, and possibly to disband old units, but more likely to find ways to get them killed in combat.  My only real garrisoning concern is being pestered with long range Conventional Missiles.  So for instance, lately I'm making AAA Photon units everywhere.

When I'm using rails to conquer, I use defense only armored infantry and offense only damage dealers, because it's cheaper to make units that way.  Money goes to Secret Projects.  I tend to conquer in a strict radius from my capitol.  There tends to come a point at which I've got more facilities to build in cities and I stop making offensive units.  I tend to try to squeeze additional conquest out of the units I've already got, rather than just produce a never ending horde.  After awhile all the unit pushing just gets to be too much, and it's easier to just wait around for cities to make facilities.

Still my empire in my current game is quite large despite these constraints.  I've crushed the Hive, the Gaians, and the Data Angels who were all my nearest land neighbors.  The Believers are a long term tiny ally.  The Pirates are near neighbors, although they've been pushed out of the core of my empire.  Getting to their cities is more of a PITA as I have to make Marines to take them over.  If I'm fighting a land power, that's a waste of production.  The Peacekeepers are way far to the north, so far that I haven't built a rail to them yet.  And I might never, because Needlejets actually became a problem for my Formers about the time I started conquering the Data Angels.

I'm in an endgame where swelling my population is all I need to do, so I'm not bothering with more rails, more AAA, or much in the way of conquest.  I'm just waiting for the sun to come out.  Cost of cornering the energy market is 100k credits!  Not sure if it would be cheaper if I choose Thought Control and gain +2 PROBE.  Or maybe it depends on raising one's ECONOMY?  Mine's nothing special right now, only +1, but I just changed my budget to 60-20-20 and I think I'm making 3k credits/turn.  Probably I'll go through the motions of saving up the money, only to have the sun finally clear and vote myself the winner.

Finally they succumb.  My final vote tally was like 3700+ vs. 500+.  I'm doubting I even needed the factories to do this.  Getting to Hab Domes first would probably have been enough to put everyone under the table vote wise.  I suppose without 4X votes, my margin would have been 900+ vs. 500+, not enough to win Supreme Leader.  In which case I would have had to invade more stuff.  I was preparing a doomsday spread of Conventional Missiles since I had so much production.  That wasn't the leanest path through the game, clearly.