Author Topic: Transcending quickly  (Read 5260 times)

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Offline bvanevery

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Transcending quickly
« on: April 03, 2018, 02:03:37 PM »
A player in the "same map, same start" game gave me some disturbing news.  Granted it was a replay with foreknowledge, but he Transcended in 2337.  That's 3 years better than my Diplomatic Victory time.  It's far beyond just shaving a few turns off, it means I fundamentally don't understand something about the game.  Completely shocking to me that it could be done that quickly.  Why bother with all the other stuff I did / tend to do, if you can have any tech you want in that time period?

Possibly all my time playing Huge maps or larger have given me some "bad" habits.  I think research rate may be pegged to the map side, and I may have a conceptual bias towards inherently slower research rates.  That said, I'm not sure just how much slower they are.  I don't tend to think "1 tech per turn" is typical or doable until very late in the tech tree.  Maybe that's an artifact of playing on really big maps, like 128x256 for my massive "Continental Consciousness" AAR.

My opponent who Transcended, started with Lal next to the Monsoon Jungle and had no opposition.  To try to duplicate his feat, I started on a Normal sized map with Lal.  As luck would have it, I found myself next to the Monsoon Jungle with no opposition!  So it's an apples to apples comparison.  Can I Transcend by 2337 or earlier?  I'm off to a bangup start:

creeping quietly
creeping quietly

I was able to sneak up on almost all of the Monsoon Jungle without meeting anybody.  Once I settled UN Haven City I could see a border of some kind right next to me, so I did not explore further.  I was able to push out UN Data Acquisition and had no idea that I'd settled 2 squares from a Gaian city.  Perfect!  I founded UN Settlement Agency last as the anchor for my land claim.  Then I figured, now I'm pretty safe to push fowards and see what's up.

poor Deirdre
poor Deirdre

This whole thing worked out because Deirdre is being hammered by the Usurpers.  She allied with me immediately against them.  She's got a lot of techs I want, but I'm not trading my Planetary Neworks to her just yet.  Hey I'm still working on The Virtual World.  I've already completed The Human Genome Project, and The Weather Paradigm will be mine in 6 turns.  Not only was I blessed with the jungle, I also got some really good mineral deposits.  This start is basically "beyond perfect", it's clearly the best case.

behold my Wonders
behold my Wonders

An inefficient Planned economy is also part of my early Secret Project success.  I'm at -3 Efficiency!  Well whatever, doin' what I gotta.  I will send out my probe teams, steal some stuff from Marr, and then see how my economy and tech are doing.

wraparound world
wraparound world

I've known that the Manifold Nexus was to the east for some time now.  However this big patch of fungus sprung next to my original capitol at the very beginning of the game.  It was quite a groaner especially as it covered up the mineral deposit I had just popped.  Eventually I cleared the minerals but it still prevents movement east.  Mindworms have been hovering in that area and I've had to wait for them to step forwards to kill them.  Only just this turn did I learn that the entire world probably wraps all the way around, that we're on a strip continent and I can attack the Usurpers more or less directly.  Maybe that fungal patch was actually a benefit, preventing the Usurpers from coming to bother me earlier?

« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 03:49:20 PM by bvanevery »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 03:41:01 PM »
big mango
big mango

My jungle cities have obtained the maximum size without Hab Complexes.  In an effort to stay on top of research, this turn I have gone Free Market.  I have a big war looming with Marr as Gaia's Landing just got taken over, and I've built a road to it.  I've also claimed the Manifold Nexus to the east, although we are not quite in combative contact yet.  My effort to steal tech in that direction was unsuccessful, as I ran into a mindworm on a river while retreating from a Recon Rover.

steal me some missiles
steal me some missiles

I have not been able to obtain Doctrine:Loyalty despite a Conquer research focus.  Aki has it but she won't trade it.  Zhakarov also has it and has been working on The Command Nexus, but I haven't met him so I don't know what his progress is.  He's the only somewhat powerful faction in the game other than myself, presumably because he's isolated with tons of land.  I have built 3 Command Centers in high output cities and a 4th is on the way, so I don't actually have problems producing troops.  Right now we're going through a round of Trance 3-Pulse garrisons, to slow down Marr's ubiquitous Recon Rovers when they arrive.  Also I've had a "Scout skeleton" nation for quite some time and everyone needs basic defense.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 03:47:43 PM »
conundrum
conundrum

Ordinarily I'd be overjoyed to get planes "fairly early".  But this isn't entirely compatible with a Free Market.  I guess I'll have to decide how many people I can make unhappy.  Or else give up on Free Market.  I'm switching to Explore focus as I'm about to steal Doctrine:Loyalty from the Usurpers.  They're working on the Command Nexus but I think they're unlikely to get it.  Zhakarov has been working on it for awhile now, and I have enough Artifacts saved up to insta-build it.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 04:42:10 PM by bvanevery »

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2018, 05:27:30 PM »
liquidation
liquidation

I found that with a Research Hospital in each of my size 9 jungle cities, they can each afford to support the unhappiness of 1 X Missile Penetrator.  Those are seriously hurting Marr.  However from a research standpoint, I don't have any citizens to spare for science specialists.  Even if I wanted to micromanage my citizens, which I don't.  I hope that's not actually the answer to the Transcending problem.  In MY 2210 I'm only researching 1 tech every 9 years and that doesn't exactly feel like the path to Transcending.  I don't have the Efficiency to do any better than a 40-20-40 budget, and I have to spend that 20 on Psych or my cities would riot.

project envy
project envy

The Planetary Energy Grid is likely to slip past me as I'm Explore focused.  It must not be all that "early" as Zhakarov is building the Planetary Datalinks and Marr has plane technology.  Fortunately I bombed the crap out of his city before he could finish a prototype.  I have no idea where Zhakarov or Roze are.  Since I'm on an equatorial strip supercontinent, maybe 1 is to the north, 1 is to the south.  Well they're not boating around, and my boating has been really limited.  Stabilizing my position in the jungle and fighting Marr have been much higher priorities.


Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2018, 05:38:53 PM »
Southern neighbors
Southern neighbors

In MY 2212 while trying to pop a pod on an island to the south, I met Zhakarov.  We traded techs and he gave me Roze's comm frequency.  More techs and I elected myself Governor by an overwhelming margin.  I don't feel quite as backwards as I was, but I still lack Cyberethics and Adaptive Economics.  I did get Industrial Automation so now my cities can become huge.

Offline Mart

Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2018, 05:47:56 PM »
I remember, when encountering friendly faction I could occasionally have a streak of tech trade, that would go 4 times in a row. So it was 4 for 4 techs. 3 for 3 I can get quite often. Morgan is usually reluctant to trade Industrial Automation, but he (AI) can get it fast. I think Zak is trading IA more willing. PTS is an issue for Morgan (AI).

Offline Vishniac

Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2018, 06:20:34 PM »
if you allow me...

There must effectively be some things you overlooked.
With Gaians in a current PBEM at 5 human players (and the 2 Alien factions), by 2210 I was at 5 turns/tech and, with Human Genome project and Virtual World, had no need of spending any credit in psych. At the very least, with your slight inefficiency as UN, you can have some empaths in your bases.

Though not among the best, I can watch and give you some tips if you wish.
"Weapons of mass destruction are just that: weapons, tools to achieve a goal of dominance. And who’s going to call their use 'atrocity' when the school books will have been rewritten?”
Spartan Major Julian Dorn

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 07:33:51 PM »
Hrm, I can't do Empaths right now, as it will be awhile before I have Centauri Meditation.  My happiness is pretty much all used up because of the X Penetrators.  Makes me wonder if Free Market is actually the right idea.  Democratic is pretty much required due to Lal's inefficiency.  I don't even have Centauri Empathy yet, so can't go Green.  Well I'll play onwards and see what the next point of decision is about increasing my tech output.

Offline Mart

Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 08:09:26 PM »
One way to deal with drones in FM is to have some bases with Punishment Spheres...  :-\
Another is all-specialists bases. One can get needed nutrients and minerals for units upkeep by crawlers. And if it is a base of size 5 or more, it can bring something more than doctors can.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 08:46:52 PM »
I don't have Advanced Military Algorithms and am not likely to get it soon, so the point is moot for now.  I did briefly tweak 1 citizen to be a Librarian because he couldn't work a tile.  However it has subsequently been un-tweaked, probably due to many years of "click on the center" habit.  Seems to have a tile to work now, so meh.

prepare to steal
prepare to steal

In MY 2226 I finally got Centauri Empathy.  I actually got Doctrine:Initiative before that and completed The Maritime Control Center.  I've gone Green, and it very much hurts my science output compared to Free Market.  I've got no money and I get breakthroughs every 13 turns, instead of 9 turns like before.  What it will allow me to do though, is go Fundamentalist.  That is necessary because Roze and Zhakarov aren't selling me their techs.  Zhakarov has cities immediately across the water from me, so he will be who I steal from.  He's also only in a Truce and easier to steal from than Roze.  With luck I'll be able to do it undetected, then go back to being Democratic.  Without luck, I do have Marine capability and can invade.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 10:00:05 PM »
as you were
as you were
My theft of 3 techs went just fine, with Hminee taking the blame.  However the shift in governance also put me into poverty.  I could not change my social choices back for a fair number of years.  Eventually killing mindworms got me enough money to make the transitions.  Why did those things show up when I was Green, and why didn't I capture them?  Whatever.  I got Deirdre to be my ally while I was Green, with her 1 city and all.

Now I'm back to Democratic Free Market, with also Knowledge.  This is good for 1 tech per 6 turns, in the ballpark of what people think is supposed to be happening.  I guess it doesn't work until you get Cyberethics.  Zhakarov has researched Advanced Military Algorithms, so perhaps I'll just steal it from him and not worry about subterfuge.  That would probably get Roze to be my ally.

It's MY 2236, so I've only got about 100 years to Transcend to match Brecon's performance.  My budget is 40-20-40 and I'm not seeing where the efficiency to do more Labs is going to come from.  Must I obtain Digital Sentience to get Cybernetic society?  That tech is a long ways off.  Maybe I should conquer Zhakarov just to make him my research slave.  But if I take all his cities, he won't belt the techs out anymore.  I could take them and give them back once he's my thrall, but... this whole "Transcend fast" thing is really bothering me.  Doesn't seem basically logical, given where I am right now.

Oh well, the next milestone is getting Environmental Economics to remove the energy cap.

Offline Mart

Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 10:29:33 PM »
Energy parks may be necessary. Someone once found, that the most efficient is that with "stripes" of solar colectors and echelon mirrors. There, each collector is neighbouring 6 echelons, and these neighbour 6 collectors. With land raising, they give "indecent" amounts of energy, on level 3000+ , a collector gives 4+6=10, or 11 with FM. Echelon 4 or 5.
I do this between bases as much as I can, not that efficient, but still gives a lot of energy.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2018, 11:02:25 PM »
Well I still haven't gotten any brain dump from Brecon as to how he did that Transcend by 2337.  If the key is energy park abuse or specialist abuse, I won't feel so bad.  To be honest I think those things should be removed from the game.

kvetching gets tech
kvetching gets tech

MY 2237, suddenly my energy restrictions are lifted and I'm Tree Farm capable.  Guess I need to whine and complain more often.  And drink a beer.  Maybe it's karma for feeding the dog.

The fungal pops are getting annoying.  I keep having to clean them up, and defend myself.


Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 11:12:38 PM »
gee whiz
gee whiz
Well it's not a deluge yet.  Hopefully Tree Farms calm down that 20 meter rise.

Offline bvanevery

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Re: Transcending quickly
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2018, 11:23:56 PM »
level up
level up
A Commando probe team was sufficient to steal 1 tech from Zhakarov without him noticing.  I framed Hminee again.  Now I've got an Elite team the next time I need one!  I guess my Fundamentalist exercise wasn't completely worthless, as it did get me better trained teams.

 

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