Dragon Ball / heroic adventure fiction / comics

[Buster's Uncle]

-Also, I prefer B.F. Skinner, who, in reaction to Freud and his dogmatic minions reading sick motives into everything, founded Behaviorism, a psychological school that only dealt with what could be directly observed and complex human reactions.  It was actually scientific, thus punking Freud hard (and also Jung and his much-better archetypes and collective unconscious stuff that came between and is much-better thought of today by sane shrinks than Freud).

My last therapist agreed - I said it first, but Dr. my-last-therapist did agree completely.

[E_T]

Don't forget Yung...

[Buster's Uncle]

I didn't, sir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung

[ColdWizard]

I once had an abnormal psych professor that asserted that Freud was misrepresented by other psychologists to discredit him. The motivation being that Freud asserted you could do the therapy-stuff by yourself and thus putting other psychologists out of business. And thus the sexual fixation and other things were over-emphasized and otherwise misapplied.

[Buster's Uncle]

What I know about him is sick puppy, and he's for sure mostly incorrect for normal people with normal issues, and the Psychoanalysis school is a dogmatic cult.  I cannot speak to the emphasis and motivations of other no matter how much attention I pay - precisely Freud's central mistake.

[shrug] He did find Ratman.  We may not reasonably claim he was wrong about Ratman.  He was right about much Abnormal Psychology.

-Probably informs your teacher's reaction, being as how when you're a hammer, all the world looks like nails.  My last therapist wanted to treat Everything with Neurotherapy...

---

Time to bring Goku and/or funny-book stuff back up, folks.  Heroic adventure fiction is the topic, though we can certainly split off debating psychology and such if anyone wants...

[Vishniac]

... the Woman (ultra-violence-is-for-men-I've-got-a-better-way) Paradigm thing ...

Isn't it a very modern and political view of Wonder Woman?

Of the 4 main heroes created before or around WWII that I know: Captain America, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, the woman doesn't stand out as more loving or pacific. All four are especially characterized by their trait of not killing enemies. There was an uproar when fans saw Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel; a contrario some people were cheering for Batman  killing gangsters in Batman vs Superman but it shows how out of character that was too.

To be fair, there aren't many super-heroes who really kill their enemies: Spiderman, Fnatastic Four, even Iron Man the most anticommunist hero or Daredevil the vigilante don't indulge into cold-blood killing or even hot. Enemies die by accident or disintegrated by their own devices...
Until recently of course with the famous turn around with Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns by 1985-87. Then suddenly semi-outlaws like Wolverine and the Punisher who were making some cameos got their own series where they could leave a trail of blood behind them...

But usually super-heroes don't kill also because 1-comics were at first for kids and 2-authors didn't want to re-invent super-villains all the time so the bad guys were put in jail and escaped and put in jail and escaped and... (Seriously, in real life, how much times can the Joker escape and kill civilians by terror before someone decide it's just good policy to terminate him while he's sleeping in jail?)
So no: in comics, ultra-violence is unisexual.

Psychologist digression

While Morgan would say that "Human behavior is economic behavior", I'd go as far as saying that "Human behavior is animal behavior". Thus, I loved the work of Konrad Lorenz, the ethologist, on animal agression...and I still use his lessons to this day even at my work... 

And to link comics to your digression:

[Buster's Uncle]

Holy CRAP, Vish!  That's beautiful for tying it all together.

-More on WW and my reaction soon.

[E_T]

What about deadpool??

[Vishniac]

What about deadpool??

About who?

[Buster's Uncle]

A BLATANT Deathstroke the Terminator rip-off from Rob Liefield on (gag) X-Force.  -Since become a breaking-the-forth-wall humor character, because he was mouthy and unserious to begin with, and become very successful as something like Slade Wilson had Ambush Bug's baby who got his "mother"'s looks and MO, AB's mouth and knows he's in comic books..  Deadpool's real name is Wade Wilson, he was SO blatant a ripoff.

Hit movie starring Ryan Reynolds.

Are you REALLY asking?  Humor translates with difficulty, so it may not have made it to Europe...

[Unorthodox]

Deadpool was after The Watchmen so his point stands on that.

However, Captain America killed a few folks early on.  Moon Knight did regularly early on despite the ccc and I’m sure there was plenty of killing in the horror comics before the ccc.

[Buster's Uncle]

Cap is a special case on pure-virtue hero not killing, as implicit at his very roots is Super-Soldier.  He should never kill much, VERY rarely because he is so damn good a fellow.  -But he had to have shot/decapitated wehrmacht who were about to shoot Bucky or Sgt. Fury and Easy Co.

He didn't like having to do in Baron Blood, a super strong Vampire (they are predators of humans, and nothing else, and need killin' SO bad) who he was wrestling with on the floor.  It was Cap or the killer, y'know?

Every one of the hardcore no-kill virtuous heroes has a surprisingly individual reason, for characters created for trashy-cheap children's adventure fictions.

---

Uno, I was only answering his question, re; Deadpool not reacting to any "point".  Being comedy Deathstroke and a villain(sometimes anti) like Mom, oh LORD does he kill the just and unjust alike.  No, totally on the Wolvie/punisher grin-n-gritty killer spectrum, if a special comedy case.

[Unorthodox]

Phone. I was responding to et. It took that long to post because I entered a dead zone. 


I’m fairly sure the fantastic four had some early killing before moving to the more pacifist nature.  I’m not sure when the cca (sorry for the autocorrect above) kicked in and whether it caused the more pacifist shift in them (or cap).  But it’s hard to judge heroes created under the cca (comic commission authority) as any hero that didn’t get cca approval was dead in the water for quite some time.  Watchmen helped prove a market existed without the cca but it was hardly the first and the cca was already crumbling.

Without that censorship, I highly doubt a lot of the “no killing” would be present to the degree it is.

[Buster's Uncle]

I'll think about the FF and get back to you, but I think you're wrong - and the Comics Code Authority goes back to --- 1953(?)

(It was kinda, sorta a bunch of other publishers taking out Bill Gaines and EC [Eerie, Creepy - comics for you, if not good] more than actual fear of congress.)

[Unorthodox]

I'll think about the FF and get back to you, but I think you're wrong - and the Comics Code Authority goes back to --- 1953(?)

(It was kinda, sorta a bunch of other publishers taking out Bill Gaines and EC [Eerie, Creepy - comics for you, if not good] more than actual fear of congress.)

I know it started as the let's get rid of the horror comics, banning vampires and such.  I'm not sure at what time it got all super sensitive protect the chillins, however as it was constantly being reformed censoring and allowing different things.  My experience is obviously 70s and earl 80s, having to pick and search through the archive at the store to find the horror collectibles.  So, possible I am wrong, but I know at least some kinds of killing were against some members in charge of the commission.