Author Topic: Faction Profile: The Hive  (Read 1424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aureustgo

Faction Profile: The Hive
« on: August 12, 2022, 10:03:32 PM »
Faction Profile: The Hive

Starting Tech: Doctrine: Loyalty (C2)

Advantages: +1 Growth, +1 Industry. Perimeter Defense each base. Efficiency minimized at zero (yeah, right).

Disadvantages: -2 Economy.

Natural ally: Usual suspects – Gaians, University, and Peacekeepers. Be very aware of the Spartans and Believers.

Target Techs: Standard, but Applied Physics (A1) in particular. Centauri Empathy (E3) just 'cos.

Target Special Projects: Like Believers, and pretty standard overall. Command Nexus and Human Genome Project are probably ones to check out, based on style of play.

Overview:
Yang is a feared AI opponent, mostly because the AI benefits from the types of bonuses that he possesses. In reality, Yang is in my view on of the weakest factions and can be exposed by aggressor factions: he’s dumb, stupid poor, with minimal attack potential without some help. Most factions are hostile towards him at first meeting. His "offense" is by aggressive base planting, which he can churn out remarkably quick, but this is not always what you need. SMAC is about rover play, not absorbing attacks. When free of aggressors, the Hive can *really* pick up steam. This boom-bust scenario presents an interesting variation on the Explore strategy.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 10:45:06 PM by Aureustgo »

Offline Aloysius

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2022, 06:29:09 AM »
Yang cannot choose Democratic politics in social engineering, which has some relatively unique impacts on him: like some others he cannot boom without a golden age, but without the EFFIC from Dem the GA is even more difficult to achieve in distant bases.  Also, he cannot reach +4 EFFIC to unlock the labs slider until Cybernetic in the fourth row.

Playing Yang lends itself to choosing Police State (with no penalty!), the ability to use multiple police units and support up to 4 for free will encourage development of military forces early in the game.  Completing (or capturing!) the Ascetic Virtues will put you at +3 police, which doubles the drones controlled.  Planned will also have no penalty, in both cases you will simply stay at 0 EFFIC instead of going negative.

The free perimeter defense is also nice as you are far less vulnerable to the intrinsic infantry boost in the early game, so there's less to worry about in over-extending your conquest.

You want to play Yang very aggressively, he is not the best choice for a game where you want to stay at 'Noble.'  :whip:  -2 ECON is worse than -2 RESEARCH by mid-game - and if everyone is at peace playing the energy game, the effect on commerce can be crippling.  Peace - and surrender pacts - are less profitable for Yang than other factions.

Of course, this also means that sanctions have less impact on Yang.  If the AI gets their hands on the tech they will totally start throwing nukes around.  ;nuke;

I suggest a smallish map, bee-lining High Energy Chemistry, and seeing how many sanctions you can rack up before you run out of people to sanction you, if you haven't played that game before.

Offline Aureustgo

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2022, 06:05:42 AM »
I largely agree. I'll put up some keys to success here in a little bit.

Offline Aureustgo

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2022, 06:01:45 PM »
1. It's a trap! Alone on the perimeter.

When playing the Hive it’s important to know that a perimeter defense at every base is basically a big fat zero. It’s not an advantage, but mostly a disadvantage.

Let me count the reasons:

i. Offense is highly rewarded in SMAC, and holing up behind city walls and allowing yourself to get attacked – rather than pre-emptively strike in the field with rovers - is generally not a good strategy. To emphasize this point, I don’t think I have ever built a perimeter defense while playing another faction;

ii. The AI generally hates Yang (see later), so he gets into more conflict than usual, especially early – so whatever defensive benefit the defense offers is more than offset by the much greater probability you’ll get attacked in the first place;

iii. Perimeter defenses don’t help you against worms, a far more important key to successful and speedy development;

iv. You can’t even sell the thing for energy… even if you also have the Citizen's Defense Force. But if your base gets overtaken, now they have a perimeter defense that they can sell (not to mention making it harder on you to re-take it).

The only benefit is perhaps for new players that need a defensive buff when they take over an enemy base, or when they stupidly aggravate stronger neighbors... or something.

The point is this: don’t be distracted by its supposed benefits. The perimeter defense is not your friend but an obstacle to work around. The “advantage” is literally a trap.

Offline Aureustgo

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2022, 06:39:31 PM »
2. Boys in the hood. Be careful!

Smarter people than me can explain this in detail, but the Hive is often immediately hated by other factions and war is often declared at first meeting. (Yang is called “ruthless,” regardless of the player’s actions). Enemy factions are also moreresistant to make peace when they do. And while the perimeter defense helps you withstand these assaults, and well, you can sometimes overtake them to the point of becoming a servile faction, the reality is that you’d really much prefer to have a peace treaty, trade for much needed techs, and form a pact. This is especially true if you’re playing Explore.

This hostility towards the Hive could be something hardwired into the code, it could be due to the Hive generally having weaker attack techs (which the AI uses to assess your suitability as a target), or something else still. In any case, it’s a massive disadvantage. The Spartans are a generally nasty bunch no matter what faction, and yeah, the Believers will likely also give you a hard time. But what makes this so problematic is that even the “peaceable” factions are often hostile at first meet. Be aware.

What this means is that the Hive can be under siege turn 10, and so it’s worth considering how you’ll want to deal with it. Here are some ideas, in reverse order of long-run success:

i. Your perimeter defense can be penetrated with lasers, especially if you’re dealing with the Spartans. So grabbing synthmetal (B1 Industrial Base) will be a big help. Of course, if you’re dealing with the Spartans, they love going for the laser-impact one-two punch, so your synthmetal will be obsolete soon. (Also, if playing Explore, going the build route is sub-optimal for your future research goals).

ii. Research [C1] Applied Physics and [E1] Doctrine: Mobility as quickly as possible, to head off assaults in the field. Laser rovers are usually good enough against even impact squad counterforces. I've even done well against plasma armored troops (not that I recommend it!). The thing is, war can happen super early and so the Hive has to pick wisely (and get lucky, with blind research) because he’ll get a couple “quick” technologies before research stalls out.

(ii b. If you can arrange for it, it is nice to stumble onto [D2] Planetary Networks and just probe the attackers and build them without wasting the tech on it. This is usually only feasible in the early going with a separate side encounter with the University).

iii. Don't research Applied Physics directly, but instead acquire it through unity pods (all base technologies are “findable” that way). A more consistent strategy, therefore, is to stick with Explore strategy and go after [E2] Doctrine: Flexibility as normal. By supplementing pod popping with sea pods, a faction can usually get most of the early techs fairly quickly, and also earn the energy credits necessary to fund the laser rovers you want to produce.

The good news is that, even with unwanted wars, the AI’s tactics aren’t always that great (well, they sometimes are pretty devious), and so a good player (with a keen eye for tactics) can usually put early wars at bay… usually. For instance, I’ve even taken down a hostile Spartan crew just with hordes of scouts.

But that’s the exception. Plan ahead.

Offline Aureustgo

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2022, 07:00:52 PM »
3. Energy depletion.

Put simply: the Hive is dirt poor. In theory his production bonus makes up for that, but in practice the player would much rather have the money in most cases (see Faction Profile: The Morganites).

Some solutions:

Pod popping takes on added importance. It’s a numbers game so hit as many as you can. While on land Yang does a decent job here, with his quick production of scouts, sea pods are always the preferred ones to go after, when you can arrange for it. One setback is the Hive is slowed in research, and so getting [E2] Doctrine: Flexibility can take a long time.

It can be a also good strategy to use Yang’s production advantage to churn out an extra scout (or two) and just roam the fungus for worms. Those 10 credits can add up! It follows that getting [E3] Centauri Empathy is more crucial than normal.

(I’ll comment more on this in a new unrelated thread, but there are a few other general tricks to get you energy).

Unlike almost every other faction, who wants to invest (spend) energy credits into base development quickly to maximize returns, the Hive actually wants to hold onto more cash than usual. This is primarily because, despite pursuing an Explore strategy, the erratic dispositions of the other factions may require you to have an army earlier than you think. Energy is the best way of staying flexible: buying command centers, rush purchase rovers or new prototypes, etc.

But, even to this end, the Hive has a burden of extra planning not necessary for other factions. You see, his lack of energy and production bonus work at cross purposes:

When rush purchasing, a typical play is to rush purchase the scout (or trance scout), and then change production to rush purchase what you really want. After all, if you don’t have the first 10 minerals already started, then rush purchases incur a substantial penalty. The Hive’s production bonus throws a wrench in this. Since rush purchasing a scout only gives you 9 minerals, the Hive will need to wait a turn (so that 10 minerals are eclipsed), before rush purchasing beyond that. (Sometimes you take the hit, for example, rushing from scout to former to impact rover). Either way, this is a noticeable handicap, especially in the early going.

Offline Aureustgo

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2022, 07:22:27 PM »
4. Pumping iron.

If the Hive has many disadvantages, one place where Yang really shines is production and specifically, special projects. I mean, he can church out a ton of them in the early going. (And the early projects are among the best). Finding energy as a complement (key 3) makes this a dominant combination – it’s not uncommon for the Hive to nab 5 or 6 of the early projects, sometimes all in one base!

Two provisos:

First, it may seem obvious, but Yang needs to required technology to build the special projects in the first place. This is not always possible, especially when he’s isolated because his research is so terrible. (Even when he’s among neighbors, they’re not always in the trading mood). My early target projects, regardless of faction, is the Human Genome Project, Weather Paradigm, and the Empath Guild, and Yang’s no exception here. The good thing about Yang is that, even if he strikes out on these, he can usually get the Command Nexus (if he wants it).

Second, to get a bunch of projects some of the builder factions need to get some head winds, like early skirmishes with the Spartans, more desolate starting areas, and the like. Without some early troubles, the Gaians are often real quick with the HGP, and Lal usually grabs the Virtual World.

One word about the Command Nexus. While Yang is a weak faction, and has no real offensive advantages, the Hive armed by command centers can be a terrible foe. (Anyone who has played against the AI Hive knows this). I’ll often take the Command Nexus away from the Spartans or Believers (if they go for it), but if I'm playing Explore, I’ll generally favor other special projects instead.

Offline Iranon

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2022, 09:11:30 AM »
Is the Hive really discouraged from a peaceful game?

We lose easy access to 2 powerful break points without Golden Ages, +6 Growth for population booms and +2 Economy for increased tile yields... but both require fairly serious concessions. Instead, we get moderate Growth, Industry, Support and Police bonuses from policies that carry a heavy Efficiency penalty for others. The penalties for negative Econ are quite mild, we more than make up with growth, development, strong but labour-intensive terraforming options, and easy drone suppression. Also, all our disadvantages have the same solution: Specialists don't care about energy yields or being soft-locked into zero Efficiency, and they can selectively trigger golden ages where necessary for growth.

Offline BlaneckW

Re: Faction Profile: The Hive
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2022, 12:49:23 PM »
Would be discouraged from peace at higher difficulties merely because the AI would be more efficient at research at higher difficulties anyway.  Possibly even more so with AI mods.  If you do happen to get peace, then maybe not, but if they aren't cooperating you have to throw scouts or whatever at them.

 

* User

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


Login with username, password and session length

Select language:

* Community poll

SMAC v.4 SMAX v.2 (or previous versions)
-=-
24 (7%)
XP Compatibility patch
-=-
9 (2%)
Gog version for Windows
-=-
103 (32%)
Scient (unofficial) patch
-=-
40 (12%)
Kyrub's latest patch
-=-
14 (4%)
Yitzi's latest patch
-=-
89 (28%)
AC for Mac
-=-
3 (0%)
AC for Linux
-=-
6 (1%)
Gog version for Mac
-=-
10 (3%)
No patch
-=-
16 (5%)
Total Members Voted: 314
AC2 Wiki Logo
-click pic for wik-

* Random quote

Captain said to big old John Henry, That old drill keeps a-coming around. Take that steam drill out and start it on that job Let it whop, let it whop that steel on down Let it whop, let it whop that steel on down.
~Traditional, Datalinks

* Select your theme

*
Templates: 5: index (default), PortaMx/Mainindex (default), PortaMx/Frames (default), Display (default), GenericControls (default).
Sub templates: 8: init, html_above, body_above, portamx_above, main, portamx_below, body_below, html_below.
Language files: 4: index+Modifications.english (default), TopicRating/.english (default), PortaMx/PortaMx.english (default), OharaYTEmbed.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 45 - 1228KB. (show)
Queries used: 38.

[Show Queries]