Is the ability to build-and-sell facilities to lift the mineral cap a bug?

[Yitzi]

Earthmichael mentioned that he considers it a bug, and I'm wondering if that's a generally held position.  Because if it is a bug, then in patch version 2.0 I can set it so it always counts only facilities present (rather than giving an option to track how many facilities have been built), which will probably make it easier to code.  Other effects of this change would be:
-It won't matter whether you built the facility before or after the first fungal pop; it will count either way.
-Capturing a base with the facility will make it count for you (if it's not destroyed); losing a base with the facility, or losing the facility to drone riots or sabotage or energy overload will make it stop counting.
-I will be able to restore all 64 landmarks, rather than only 63.

[sisko]

bug for me.

[ete]

It seems like a clear bug to me, both in common sense/realism and gameplay. Destroying nature reserves has pretty severe ecological consequence, at the very least enough to offset building them in the first place. And having clean mins linked to what you're controlling rather than what you built in the past just makes a whole lot more sense.

If practical though, maybe make it so that before the first fungal pop the clean mins boost from these facilities does not apply? Otherwise people who get early tree farms may miss out on the "planet rising" part of the story.

Negative consequences of the change: Factions with free forest facilities will basically never have eco problems, despite most of them being fairly teraforming/anti-planet. I imagine checking whether the facility is "real" (built, needs maintenance) or "virtual" (produced by faction power/SP, no maintenance) would be fairly complex, and it's a much more minor issue than the bug.

[Yitzi]

If practical though, maybe make it so that before the first fungal pop the clean mins boost from these facilities does not apply? Otherwise people who get early tree farms may miss out on the "planet rising" part of the story.

That isn't really practical, as that would require tracking which facilities were built before the first pop (and therefore do not contribute, so destroying them won't decrease it) and which would not; even if destroying/losing any facility decreases the clean minerals and capturing any facility increases it, it would be a big pain to code.
That said, I don't think people who get early tree farms are likely to miss out on the "planet rising" part of the story unless they're ICSing as well (unlikely, as most ICSers don't build those facilities), as early tree farms usually mean forests, which produce a sizable amount of minerals.  They will have a shorter version of the story...but then so will anyone who makes sure to avoid worm-containing pops by any means.

Negative consequences of the change: Factions with free forest facilities will basically never have eco problems, despite most of them being fairly teraforming/anti-planet.

Forest facilities reduce terraforming ecodamage either way, but yes it would reduce their ecological problems...unless of course you play with

I imagine checking whether the facility is "real" (built, needs maintenance) or "virtual" (produced by faction power/SP, no maintenance) would be fairly complex, and it's a much more minor issue than the bug.

You're half right (and it's the relevant half).  Counting only ones not from an SP is fairly easy, but checking whether it's from a faction power is somewhat harder.

[ete]

Okay, well I'll be very happy to have this fixed, the extras are all unimportant in comparison and unless they were much easier than I'd expected not worthwhile.

Also for clarity: I meant not apply any eco facility effects until after the first pop, but apply all eco facility effects after the first pop (even for eco facilities built before the pop).

And the last bit is interesting, the game handles faction power facilities like normal facilities then? Is this true for preq required and normal ones? That's surprising since faction power ones are no maintenance, so I'd have imagined they were handled similarly.

[Yitzi]

Okay, well I'll be very happy to have this fixed, the extras are all unimportant in comparison and unless they were much easier than I'd expected not worthwhile.

Also for clarity: I meant not apply any eco facility effects until after the first pop, but apply all eco facility effects after the first pop (even for eco facilities built before the pop).

Ah, now that I can do fairly easily.  Until your first pop, your clean minerals is only 16 (or whatever you set it to in alphax), afterward it'll take into account facilities.

And the last bit is interesting, the game handles faction power facilities like normal facilities then? Is this true for preq required and normal ones? That's surprising since faction power ones are no maintenance, so I'd have imagined they were handled similarly.

I tested it for the University's network nodes (not a prereq required one), so I'd presume it applies to all cases (except for project-based ones, which it actually treats differently, probably so that you can lose it when you lose the project.)  But faction-power facilities are by default treated like built ones, though of course various specific rules treat them differently.

[ete]

Okay, well I'll be very happy to have this fixed, the extras are all unimportant in comparison and unless they were much easier than I'd expected not worthwhile.

Also for clarity: I meant not apply any eco facility effects until after the first pop, but apply all eco facility effects after the first pop (even for eco facilities built before the pop).

Ah, now that I can do fairly easily.  Until your first pop, your clean minerals is only 16 (or whatever you set it to in alphax), afterward it'll take into account facilities.

Okay, I think that may be better, because no extra clean mins till first pop seems like an intended feature.

And the last bit is interesting, the game handles faction power facilities like normal facilities then? Is this true for preq required and normal ones? That's surprising since faction power ones are no maintenance, so I'd have imagined they were handled similarly.

I tested it for the University's network nodes (not a prereq required one), so I'd presume it applies to all cases (except for project-based ones, which it actually treats differently, probably so that you can lose it when you lose the project.)  But faction-power facilities are by default treated like built ones, though of course various specific rules treat them differently.

I see. I wonder whether finding the code which checks whether a facility requires maintenance would help, the check from there could possibly be copied over? It's entirely fair if you don't want to mess around with that for the sake of a few custom factions though, and doing it that way would prevent factions with free centrauri preserves working as intended... so don't bother unless you really feel like it .

[Yitzi]

Okay, well I'll be very happy to have this fixed, the extras are all unimportant in comparison and unless they were much easier than I'd expected not worthwhile.

Also for clarity: I meant not apply any eco facility effects until after the first pop, but apply all eco facility effects after the first pop (even for eco facilities built before the pop).

Ah, now that I can do fairly easily.  Until your first pop, your clean minerals is only 16 (or whatever you set it to in alphax), afterward it'll take into account facilities.

Okay, I think that may be better, because no extra clean mins till first pop seems like an intended feature.

And the last bit is interesting, the game handles faction power facilities like normal facilities then? Is this true for preq required and normal ones? That's surprising since faction power ones are no maintenance, so I'd have imagined they were handled similarly.

I tested it for the University's network nodes (not a prereq required one), so I'd presume it applies to all cases (except for project-based ones, which it actually treats differently, probably so that you can lose it when you lose the project.)  But faction-power facilities are by default treated like built ones, though of course various specific rules treat them differently.

I see. I wonder whether finding the code which checks whether a facility requires maintenance would help, the check from there could possibly be copied over? It's entirely fair if you don't want to mess around with that for the sake of a few custom factions though, and doing it that way would prevent factions with free centrauri preserves working as intended... so don't bother unless you really feel like it .

I don't really feel like it; I'm sure I could do it, but it's a hassle, and (usually unbalanced anyway) custom factions anyway, so it'll have to wait until I start taking random requests (at which point if someone wants to nominate it they can).

[ete]

Entirely understandable

[gwillybj]

It's a Bug. Squash it.

[Earthmichael]

It is definitely a bug.  Thank you Yitzi for addressing it!  I would love to see it squashed!