Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: gwillybj on April 29, 2014, 05:35:15 PM

Title: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: gwillybj on April 29, 2014, 05:35:15 PM

SMAC Fac Pack

http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=172 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=172)

An original set-of-seven developed in 2003-2005 that plays very well in SMAC or SMAX. As random factions played among others they will do well, too. As the set was fleshed out and finalized, they were to have artwork and their own custom alpha.txt and alphax.txt, but that kind of stalled as real life took over. The entire body of work, including the proposed faction.pcxs and alpha(x).txts, can be seen at: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SMACFacPack/info.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 29, 2014, 05:37:01 PM

It's never too late to add those things.  Lotta artists in Modding...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: ete on April 29, 2014, 06:09:24 PM

Excellent find. Worth adding to the wiki too. If you've found other factions hidden in the depths of the web, let me know and they can be integrated into the ultimate faction pack.

Also maybe we should post up on their board, at least one of them was active last year?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: gwillybj on April 29, 2014, 07:11:31 PM

I did extensive playtesting for Adam and Nathan. I had only SMAC when I started, but switched to SMAX before the project ended quietly. I've played those factions through and through and still go back to them sometimes. Loads of fun, and full of surprises.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 29, 2014, 07:15:22 PM

Somebody invite them to have a look around here.  Art will happen, if they're interested in pursuing it.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: gwillybj on April 30, 2014, 12:47:29 AM

Invitation engraved and posted. The hosts should get emails telling them a new post is up, and I'm sure they will look in and see what's going on here.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: ete on April 30, 2014, 12:52:43 AM

@gwillybj: Do you happen have any other custom factions which may be missing from the wiki/the big faction pack?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: gwillybj on April 30, 2014, 04:07:12 AM

I have no more. I've had so much fun with just these few that I never went looking for more. I wrote up a sparse few for myself, but they're nothing worth sharing, just oddball stuff for personal entertainment.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 30, 2014, 04:08:36 AM

...We could probably look around and put together a pack of funny novelty factions...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 03, 2014, 05:52:10 AM

Quote from: gwillybj on April 30, 2014, 12:47:29 AM

Invitation engraved and posted. The hosts should get emails telling them a new post is up, and I'm sure they will look in and see what's going on here.

;b; :danc: ;b;

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on May 04, 2014, 04:54:28 AM

Check. it. OUT.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on March 03, 2021, 05:23:30 AM

I still remember this project, it felt like one of the few custom faction sets that had an underlying story and factions with distinct philosophies and not just based on nationalities or corporations.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on March 25, 2021, 07:40:29 PM

Quote from: gwillybj on April 29, 2014, 07:11:31 PM

I did extensive playtesting for Adam and Nathan. I had only SMAC when I started, but switched to SMAX before the project ended quietly. I've played those factions through and through and still go back to them sometimes. Loads of fun, and full of surprises.

Since the Yahoo Groups is gone, do you happen do have any of the art assets that were created? Might be nice to upload them to the zip as well.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on April 21, 2021, 09:04:09 PM

Quote from: gwillybj on April 30, 2014, 12:47:29 AM

Invitation engraved and posted. The hosts should get emails telling them a new post is up, and I'm sure they will look in and see what's going on here.

I've directly emailed one of the devs and he gives us his blessing to continue working on these! Do we have any modders who might be interested in bringing this all to life?

He also sent me an archive with files missing from the one currently posted on this site. It includes both a blurbs.txt with all of the tech quotes redone, and also a script.txt to the tweaks they made to the rules.

One of the things he told me is that their mod is based on SMAC, not SMAX. Though I wonder if it can also be tweaked for SMAX.

At the very least can we in any way update the archive to include the files he sent me, so it at least has the complete work, and maybe we can start examining the changed mechanics together?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on April 22, 2021, 12:42:22 AM

Can you upload the new files as an attachment in this thread? I can then upload them for you to the downloads section or possibly replace the old download if the new ones are strictly better. (In case you don't know, I help out with tech stuff for this forum).

Thanks for reaching out to the original authors and getting the updated files!

It's likely that they're usable in both SMAC and SMAX, though I could maybe have a look at that, too.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on April 22, 2021, 12:55:01 AM

Here's what he sent me- actually, it looks like there's some differences between the faction.txt files here compared to the one that's currently on AC 2, (these appear to be older), but it also contains alpha.txt (not sure if it's different from the game), blurbs.txt, Script.txt, the modified tech text files, and all of the placeholder art. I think we could either diff between the two sets to determine which faction text files should be used, and merge all of the unique files. (The current AC 2 archive from Yahoo! Groups also contains some extra lore files that should be kept, and maybe we could add the faction summary I pasted as a text file as well.)

Thanks so much for your help and interest in this!

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 22, 2021, 08:46:35 AM

Hello, everybody, nweismuller here, the person who originated the SMACFacPack concept and one of the two developers back in the day (along with a consultant who wrote the majority of the Anarchist quotes and basenames).  I'm glad to see continued interest in the FacPack, and will be glad to answer questions.  Yes, the FacPack was designed for SMAC, not SMAX; notable because it involves a somewhat modified tech tree with a few changed dependencies and two entirely new technologies, along with the modifications to the effects of early Social Engineering.  I'm certainly available for any questions if needed, and would be delighted if other people's efforts help bring the mod into a complete state.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on April 22, 2021, 03:25:25 PM

Would one of you two like to combine the two packs into one collection with the best bits of each? MysticWind, it sounds like you've already done the thinking for it.

Then either you or I can upload this improved pack to the downloads section.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on April 24, 2021, 02:16:41 AM

Quote from: DrazharLn on April 22, 2021, 03:25:25 PM

Would one of you two like to combine the two packs into one collection with the best bits of each? MysticWind, it sounds like you've already done the thinking for it.

Then either you or I can upload this improved pack to the downloads section.

Sure thing! Here it is.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 24, 2021, 05:57:40 AM

I'm away from my primary PC, so I can't give a comprehensive comparison, but I can say that the changes in alpha.txt were significant, aiming at a rougher early game, a slight weakening of forests, some reshuffling of tech requirements, delaying sea bases, removing supply crawlers and nerve gas... (Supply crawlers being open to significant exploitation, nerve gas just being... honestly not super-plausible as such a boost in effectiveness when military experience on Earth is that the military effectiveness of gas weapons is limited, and that's on a planet where breathing apparatus isn't necessary just to stay outdoors.)

An incomplete list of changes includes: Base nutrients output of forests dropped to 0, Stockpile Energy now requires Industrial Base, Informal Politics, Simple Economics, and Survival Values all have minor social engineering penalties attached, Knowledge Values are attached to Intellectual Integrity, Nerve Gas and Supply Crawlers are removed, Colony Pods are removed as a selectable payload from the unit designer, and premade colony pod designs were made for infantry, rover, foil, and hovertank chassis, with the sea colony pod's prerequisite set at Nanometallurgy, two new techs (Plasma Dynamics and Life Extension) were added, with Eudaimonia now notably requiring Life Extension instead of Will to Power (along with some other shifts in the tech tree), Non-Lethal Methods got shifted to Ethical Calculus, and doubtless other changes I can't recall off the top of my head.  If people are curious about either lore or basic design intent behind mechanical changes in the full mod, I'd be glad to answer questions.

Design originally foundered on the lack of an art team that could work with the file formats involved; the eventual plan was to have portraits and logos for all factions, new icons for Plasma Dynamics and Life Extension, and voice acting for all tech and facility quotes.  techshorts.txt is mostly fixed up, but I've noticed there's a couple of incomplete bits and errors for tech tier references in techshorts.txt.

Honestly, not bad in scope for a project that stemmed, originally, from me messing around with designing the Chiron Cartel as a direct replacement for Morgan Industries in my personal games.  Then that led to designing Unicorp, and everything sort of spiralled out of control from there.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on April 24, 2021, 11:30:40 AM

Sounds like an interesting project, nweismuller :)

Thanks, MysticWind!

What are the .tmp files and the FACTIONNAMEvals.tmp files about? Do they need to be there?

I wonder if overviews.txt, raw back story.txt and yahoo_group_summary.txt, and the credits file could be combined into one readme_smacfacpack.txt or similar? Any objections?

Would either of you like to finish up those incomplete bits in techshorts.txt?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on April 24, 2021, 12:06:51 PM

Also, I see that there's no credit for the art. I don't have software to view pcx on this machine, so I haven't seen the ones in these zips, but if you're not satisfied with them you could pick some out from the large collection we've got here or talk to BUncle.

https://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/Custom%20Factions.htm
https://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/Custom%20Factions3.html

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 24, 2021, 03:47:45 PM

The .tmp files probably don't need to be thre; I just saw them in my own install and bundled them out of an abundance of caution.  There's no art credit because the current art used is literally just using files from the original game or SMAX as placeholders.  Those files I'd have to review; raw back story in particular, as the name implies, is very much not a complete version of what it should be and should probably be revised at some point.

As noted before, the project eventually foundered because we had nobody to do art, and we were getting very close to 'complete' on the part we could do.  One thing that never did get addressed- the Cartel works well enough for intent in base SMAC, but with our changes to early Social Engineering, it's stuck with -4 SUPPORT until it can change Politics from Informal.  That, testing indicates, is just too crippled, and I never came up with a satisfying solution.

Edit: I can probably review techshorts- or it techlongs?  I think it may actually be techlongs- at some point; just not today.  A notable change in script.txt is that there were edits to the reactions to social engineering choices to fit the character of the leaders in SMACFacPack; Marie du Lac, for instance, criticises Democracy as undermining military discipline and undercutting the mission.  I think the Preservers reactions are still relatively similar to the old ones, but if I can get a hold of Adam, maybe I can see if he's satisfied with that.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 24, 2021, 06:34:49 PM

As far as faction art - if you go to page three of the custom factions site Draz linked above, it may be feasible to look over the art goodies, chose one from column A, one from column B, describe what you want, and it wouldn't be a big job for me to assemble into a faction graphic...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 24, 2021, 10:46:40 PM

OK, looking over the material that was proposed to be collected into a readme... 'Yahoo group summary' and 'raw backstory' are the same material; the Yahoo group summary is just lightly edited down, both ultimately originating from one informal conversation I had with Sarah Hanson explaining the basic concept.  I'd want a chance to review that extensively, and neither should probably end up in a readme.  The overviews and credits are both worth packaging into a readme, but the overviews need to fix CEO Young Kwan-Yong's name from his earlier version of 'Kim Young'.  I think what I'd like to do for faction art is finding somebody who can actually do appropriate portraits and logos, and package them with selected city art from the canonical factions- much happier, for my part, with the canonical faction city art than the city art on that one image.  I can sit down and do some actual edits once I'm back at my main PC.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on April 24, 2021, 11:48:12 PM

Apropos of nothing, would you consider changing Young Kwan-Yong to a female character? Not much reason other than to slightly balance the faction set’s gender ratio more towards the original SMAC’s. Though I do suppose it’s amusing how SMAC and the Fac Pack both have male East Asian collectivists but one with corporate trappings and the other have a pseudo-Maoist-Legalist dross.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 25, 2021, 04:50:57 AM

Here's a first pass at a readme for the project, combining credits, faction overviews, and a brief introduction to what the project actually does.  I'll look into formulating an actual backstory file at some point that isn't just a copied informal conversation introducing the basic idea to a friend, and that makes some points of the backstory more clear.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on April 26, 2021, 04:45:10 PM

Should this thread be moved to or mirrored to the Modding subforum for more discussion there by modders?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 27, 2021, 04:03:22 PM

This isn't even in a usable format as part of the PCX files, but I give you the sum total of the actual art work that was done on the mod in its day- the concept design for the Chiron Cartel logo.  (Unless you count the modified palette file, which set the proper colors for the different factions, in conjuction with alpha.txt.)

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on April 29, 2021, 06:48:08 AM

Reviewing what I have in the mod, I have three points on design issues I'd like to discuss with people.

First, the Cartel's -3 SUPPORT, as noted, actually works fine in standard SMAC; where it runs into issues is with the -1 SUPPORT from Informal Politics.  -4 SUPPORT, it turns out, is crippling.  Reducing the SUPPORT penalty to -2 honestly makes the Cartel too good, I think, once it can swap from Informal Politics; I'm not entirely sure how to square this circle.  Any thoughts?

Second, looking over the Loyalist and Anarchist traits, I wonder if I should swap their MORALE and PROBE bonuses- on a conceptual level, maybe it would be better for the Loyalists to have the best conventional forces and the Anarchists have good terror and infiltration tactics?  Thoughts on balance and concept there?

Third, I've begun to consider what I want to do about art for the factions.  I believe what I want to do is recycle base graphics from SMAC/SMAX factions (Morgan bases for the Cartel, Free Drones bases for Unicorp, and Spartan bases for the Loyalists are, frankly, perfect, just off the top of my head); but I'm hoping that somebody with the art chops in the modding community here can do portrait and logo work for the factions.  I'd like to formally request any artists in the mod community who are willing to contribute to the project.

Not strictly a 'design' note, but I've been working up a proper backstory file that's... better than the one drawn from that old conversation with Sarah Hanson.  I'll be ready to submit it for feedback after I get to talk with Adam Gieseler to get help with writing up one paragraph about the Preservers; I hope that people can provide feedback when I do so.

Thanks to everybody for their continued interest in a project I thought long since dead!

Edit: one more point; I'd want to actually write up the alien faction diplomacy text in the faction files to actually be customised to the factions, rather than the 'straight copies of other factions very mildly edited by some unknown user'.  This was never a priority, because the factions were never intended for use alongside alien factions- SMACFacPack was always conceptualised as a complete replacement of factions.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 12:00:52 AM

Finally, I had a feeling that this would be alive somewhere. I had seen fragments such as that cartel logo being posted on some other forum years ago.

I stumbled across an old .zip of this pack about a month ago. Since then, I've been bodging it together for my own amusement. The tribals seemed like an interesting way to play --that's what got me invested. I wanted the factions to have unique art, so I took best-fists from buster's website.

Those original best-fits were as follows: (Again, all from buster's website)
Anarchists - "New Spartans" --way too communist/statist looking
Cartel - "Morgan Franchise" --it mostly works but I think it needs to feel more libertarian
Catholics - "Male Believer" --A bit too protestant looking, good otherwise. The bishop is from the congo, so the leader pic is somewhat inappropriate
Loyalists - "United nations"/"Alternate peacekeepers" --Fitting enough, but du lac is supposedly female. Minor coloring issues.
Preservers - "Academy" -- Good enough.
Tribals - "Chr'cht" -- Bases were a good start, but too same-y. Obviously the whole insectoid thing isn't appropriate.
Unicorp - "United Workers" -- Fitting, but the leader doesn't look very Korean.

This, particularly the tribals, was distracting to me. So I set about doing my own work to mix and match with what was available. Luckily I knew enough gimp that I could easily work off of buster's tutorials to work around the major pitfalls. That said, I'm no artist --I have basically zero experience producing sprites of this quality. However, I am skilled in the art of bodging and kitbashing.

My goal is to make all the factions visually unique unique from those of the original and the expansion. I've been toying with ideas, but only the tribals are anywhere near complete. I've also worked on the anarchists (Whose bases are a visual hodge-podge of other factions) and the preservers (Combining the high technology of the university with the civility of the peacekeepers --literally).

I also grabbed a few leader profiles from the internet and processed them (paletteswap and scanlines by buster's methods) for the Catholics and the loyalists.

I'll attach some screenshots to do it justice. Remember that these are all WIP.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 12:06:42 AM

The Catholic leader is actually Italian, despite having been Archbishop of the Congo- he was involved in missionary work to Africa during his earlier career.  I almost have the new backstory file ready- I have one sentence about the Preservers that Adam wants to be tinkered with, and I need further feedback from him- and am going to do a pass on blurbs.txt, some of the faction files, and techlongs.txt.  Friendly Sven, as you make progress, I'd certainly appreciate what you're able to do for faction art files.  Please note palette.pcx in the current download for SMACFacPack in this thread- you can see the faction colors there (in order- mindworm red, Unicorp gold, Preserver cyan, Tribal drab green, Cartel slate blue, Loyalist white, Catholic deep red, Anarchist dark purple).

Edit: if you saw the Cartel logo on another forum years ago, I'm guessing that means you read my SMAC Let's Play on Something Awful.  That was a very enjoyable project, heh.  And one where I got very used to perpetual golden ages in my settlements.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 12:40:49 AM

D'aww, I really liked that picture. Maybe a recoloring could save it.

I'll look into the faction colors you have set up. I was experimenting with them myself but it was starting to get tedious.
I'll upload faction files as they are completed. Layering can really save time but I'm a bit of a perfectionist. Any stylistic ideas/concerns are welcome of course. I'll be certain to dig into the lore once it's ready.

My first and only play-through with the mod is in SMACX, but I'll provide my own two cents once I get to experiment with these new technologies and civics.

Quote from: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 12:06:42 AM

if you saw the Cartel logo on another forum years ago, I'm guessing that means you read my SMAC Let's Play on Something Awful.  That was a very enjoyable project, heh.  And one where I got very used to perpetual golden ages in my settlements.

Yeah, I think that was it! I actually bookmarked it because i was so desperate to get in touch:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3695372&pagenumber=19
Truthfully, I was mostly skimming to find who posted that logo. Perhaps this could overshadow another thread god-knows-where in which the posters made propaganda for their factions as they played against each other. Probably the highest-effort SMAC I've ever seen.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 12:51:17 AM

You should have reached out to me when you found I posted that, if you were interested.  I don't recall hearing from you then and certainly would have been glad to hear there was still interest.  Still, very glad to hear you're working on this, and, depending on how what you do turns out, I might end up incorporating your work formally into the mod and crediting you.  How do you mean 'perhaps this could overshadow' that thread?

Edit: Oh, looking at what you have so far, bear in mind the Anarchist leader is a woman and the Tribal leader is a man.  If there's a picture where the leader is actually wearing a pressure mask, that might be ideal for the Tribals, given their lifestyle.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 01:18:17 AM

To be honest, I'm a chronic lurker and have little experience with forums like this. I wasn't going to pay for an account to contact you and I was too stupid to consider an attached email address. Either way, that hurdle has been overcome, so there's no need to fuss about it.

I'd be happy for my work to be used in the mod. Proper credit/thanks should also be given to Buster's Uncle since I'm cannibalizing his work and utilizing his tutorials.
I'm going to try working on this every few days, but school could interrupt that. 

Quote from: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 12:51:17 AM

How do you mean 'perhaps this could overshadow' that thread?

I was basically hinting that I'd read it in hopes that I'd enjoy it as much as that other thread I mentioned.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 01:48:39 AM

Well, please let me know what you think once you've gotten a chance to read more of the LP, and feel free to ask me any questions about the mod you might find useful.  I'll endeavor to answer as best I may, although my full memory of decisions that were made is no longer intact.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 02:52:42 AM

Quote from: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 12:51:17 AM

Edit: Oh, looking at what you have so far, bear in mind the Anarchist leader is a woman and the Tribal leader is a man.  If there's a picture where the leader is actually wearing a pressure mask, that might be ideal for the Tribals, given their lifestyle.

Oh, Interesting. The Anarchists have a masculine faction gender and a feminine leader gender. I didn't even realize that distinction existed. 

Yeah I was pretty certain that Joseph is a male, the pic was the closest thing I could find when I was working on the tribals. I can't exactly kitbash a leader profile, so those are towards the bottom of my priority list unless I can find a good picture to port over. The lack of a face mask is a good catch though. Perhaps the tribals are so backwards that they don't send a video feed, and you just get an old file photo recovered from the Unity?

Also I read some of the tech quotes. I like that you've actually developed the assistant characters (i.e. Crazy Zack of the Anarchists) by giving them a chance to speak, definitely a missed opportunity in the base game.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 03:28:14 AM

Yeah, part of what I wanted to do was to provide multiple perspectives on each faction.  Zack Hoffman and Father Jeromy Aquinas both get prominent places, Mikaela Ellton exposes a bit about both the Tribals and the Preservers by her existence, Argyle Media interviewing multiple people implicitly indicates the position of Argyle Media in the Cartel in the setting, there's a number of internal reports not directly from factional leaders, and so on.

There's also a few other interesting things amidst the blurbs- larger patterns over multiple blurbs.  f you read closely, there's multiple quotes that imply the 'canon' story of SMACFacPack involved repeated efforts by Unicorp and the Mission Loyalists to steal Cartel technology.  There's the implicit story of Cardinal Julius growing increasingly cranky with developments on Chiron over time, as you see the trajectory from "Stellae Cognitae" to "De Homis Naturalis" to "Dies Irae".  Likewise you can deduce that Director Weismuller first did "Address to the First Investors", then "Self-Order on Chiron" relatively early in the game, but after things are slightly more established, and wrote "New Technologies and New Horizons" in the late game.  Other patterns can be deduced.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 07:39:58 AM

Here's a few attempts at anarchist seabases. All very rough. I particularly like the whole "submersible colony pod" thing. Most seabase designs seem to forget that they are at sea.

Also, I attempted some unlicensed skin therapy to save my favorite bishop. Judge the results for yourself.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on May 06, 2021, 08:28:49 AM

Quote from: Friendly Sven on May 06, 2021, 12:40:49 AM

D'aww, I really liked that picture. Maybe a recoloring could save it.

If I ever get my Second Ship (https://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=21633) concept faction set off the ground, I think that'd be a great pic for Fra. Pierre Mputu Kasala of the Parish of Planet (https://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=21633.msg130382#msg130382). They're a more moderate, Global South-focused Catholic faction.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 06, 2021, 03:30:33 PM

All right, the new backstory file is complete.  I'd appreciate people taking a look and commenting.  MysticWind, it's the same as the last version I showed you, save for one sentence in the paragraph focusing on the Preservers.  This should help provide some context for the factions, at least, and be more reliable than the old 'raw backstory'.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 27, 2021, 10:54:54 PM

Any comments on that background file?  And how's that image editing coming along?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 28, 2021, 05:46:56 AM

Quote from: nweismuller on May 27, 2021, 10:54:54 PM

Any comments on that background file?  And how's that image editing coming along?

I read it the day you uploaded it and forgot to say anything. It's a decent read;  the way you pivoted from the situation on the unity to the early years was very smooth.

I've been moving along bit by bit. Every faction has a fresh file with at least some elements filled in to some capacity. I'm slowly getting better at recoloring which has been useful in making the preserver bases look less cheap.

I've also started work on new faction emblems. I've spent some time trying to do the original cartel logo justice, but black text doesn't look very nice on black screens. I've also been toying with ideas for the UN and the Holy See. Any logo ideas would be appreciated.

Finally, to everyone who reads this: do your sea mines look different from those of the GOG version? (NOT a tower with a purple-ish roof?) If so, I'd like to have a copy of your "ter1.pcx" file for kit-bashing. I've found images of it online but they're a tad noisy and I'd like to use the best I can find.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on June 01, 2021, 04:56:06 AM

Sorry it took me a bit to respond, was out of town and away from computer.  So, I like the sword over the Peacekeeper logo for the Loyalists, that works nicely.  For the Anarchists, let me upload a concept image, not well-executed but enough to communicate the basic idea.  Stick an upraised fist in the middle of those four purple slices of a circle on a black field, and that's what I'm thinking of.  Catholics, some sort of cross imagery on a red field; all of these logos should probably incorporate the factional colors.  Preservers, I'm thinking of an open book with the abstract globe image on the two facing pages- preserving information, that is Terra.  Tribals and Unicorp I'm still thinking about; anybody have any ideas?

Changing the black text to be the blue on black for that image would be fine, I think, for the Cartel.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on June 01, 2021, 09:53:30 AM

Maybe it's intended and you're riffing off "anarchist" anarchist groups, but I think it's quite strange that their leader uses an aristocratic title.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on June 01, 2021, 10:01:52 AM

Quote from: DrazharLn on June 01, 2021, 09:53:30 AM

Maybe it's intended and you're riffing off "anarchist" anarchist groups, but I think it's quite strange that their leader uses an aristocratic title.

It's deliberate ironic humor on the Dame's part.

Edit: If asked directly about it, she'll freely admit nobody knighted her and the entire tradition of knighthood is ridiculous, but she's a Dame because she calls herself one.  And it gives an excuse to occasionally pull out pompous mock-formality that skewers the pretensions of other leaders that take themselves more seriously.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on June 02, 2021, 07:02:28 AM

Anyhow, one thing I'd appreciate is if somebody could play with the mod to see if the balance isn't excessively terrible.  If there are factions that end up egregiously weak or strong, I'd like to know, so that it can be addressed.  I'm also not sure the ECONOMY penalty for the Catholics was actually a good call, but not fully sure what to replace it with...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on June 23, 2021, 12:00:22 AM

Barring a few creative/technical bottlenecks, the graphics are more or less done.
Attached to this post (and a second post b/c attachment limits) I have screen caps of each factions .svg file. Some elements of each have been annotated to mark possible alternatives for leader profiles, faction logos, etc...
Also: I haven't mentioned them before, but I've decided to ignore the faction2 and faction3 files for the time being. --they're only relevant to the monument and for faction deaths

Note that any annotations are in order of my personal preference/judgement.

Anarchists:
I actually found that old mining platform graphic; it's uglier than i thought, but it might still make for a decent sea base. To be honest, I'm not certain what color scheme to use for anarchists.
I've had a hard time finding any good pictures to convert for our beloved dame.
I had a good time finding diplomacy backgrounds. B has some meta-humor to it but A gives a better impression of what their bases might actually be like.
I've used the supplied logo (A), and i think it works. I also made a sort of negative version has no black field (B).

Cartel:
This is the most complete faction.
Their bases (recolored from morgan) are a little noisy and have some color issues (base defenses) but are distinct and unique enough, I think.
I've reworked the supplied logo and I am very happy with it. I've even applied scan-lines and recolored the report logos, though my method there needs some work.
The Leader is a place-holder from Buster's uncle. --same issue as the Anarchists
I was having a rough time finding good diplo backgrounds, until I remembered the cartel's base names. A and C are  basically screenshots from deus-ex revision, and I think they work very well (especially A). I also kept my original attempts (stock markets) for everyone to see (B would be my choice).

Catholics:
This faction is also very nearly complete.
I found a suitable replacement for my favorite bishop, and kept the snazzy background. it's a little rough but it works. (I need to redo it anyways to re-scale it)
Inspired by the peacekeeper placeholder graphics, I recolored their bases to fit the sort of cardinal red of the faction and dirtied-up the base a bit.
I've made an attempt at the logo; I call it "the cross of Centauri" and I think it fits.
I REALLY like the photo-realism of diplo background A but it does seem a bit decadent for space-Catholics, so I found a few alternatives.

Loyalists:
The logo needs some love, and the bases are a little drab, but this faction is also very nearly done.
My goal for the bases is to make them white-washed spartan bases with blue banners but I need to get better at recoloring to achieve that.
Diplo background A and B are tossup. A shows a hard-line militarism while B shows a sort of civility, both look good, it's a matter of taste. (B would need to have the UN logo updated, if selected)

The next three factions are the problem children...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on June 23, 2021, 12:39:42 AM

The other three:

I forgot to mention: colors are still temporary/ made unique to play well with smacx.

Preservers:
The bases I showed previously are a little on the big side, so I'd like to have a go at making more conservative ones. Then I'd just need to add defenses.
No good leads for the leader pic, The placeholder is okay but I doesn't really match the photo-realistic style of the rest.
Diplo background A works well in my opinion.
You can see many logo attempts. I like the "globe in a book" idea but the resolution may not be good enough to communicate the earth. (I used a polar projection)

Tribals:
Need a solid leader pic and logo.
I think their logo should be relatively simple, as if it were some sort of cave art. But I'm not certain what to draw.
It's hard to find a pic of someone wearing a mask in an appropriately primitive setting, but I've made a solid attempt.
I imagined that the Tribals would use caves over large buildings, so I found dilpo backgrounds to solidify that.
I'm not convinced these bases match the art style, but they're good enough for now.

Unicorp:
The bases work, everything else has options.
Finding a good leader pic was hard, but I found a few to work with. I also kept Buster's Uncles alternate drone leader as a fallback.
Diplo background A, B and C all have strengths to me. A is simple and demonstrates heavy industry, B looks a little more high-tech, and C gives a peek at their slave workers.
I also attempted to modify the free-drone logo. It kinda works but it feels too bootleg for my tastes.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on June 23, 2021, 08:15:12 PM

Well, right off, let me say I'm liking the progress on the art.  The Cartel leader might be a placeholder, but he's at the least not terrible.  As far as diplo backgrounds go, I like A for Anarchists, Cartel, and Catholics (even if you think it's a little too ornate), and B for the Loyalists.  Cave backgrounds for Tribal shelters seems sensible- converting caves into pressure-sealed habs seems like it could be a possible route for them to take as they start to outgrow simple pressure tent villages.  I sort of like background B for Unicorp, but, again, they all look good.  The Free Drone logo modified... yeah, I'm with you on it not quite working.  I'll try to meditate on it.

I knew making landmasses recognisable for a globe would be tough, so I was thinking something closer to this: https://sciencepickle.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Latitude-copy.png
A circle with some latitude and longitude lines is a recognisable symbol of 'the globe', and could reference the Terra in the Preservers of Terra.  And it might be easier to present artistically in the SMAC art style.

Shame this is female, it would be *very* good for Tribals otherwise- https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/63fb32dc-ed01-4e3f-9a34-29974f71754f_1.b3d1aaefd5200a7cd622605b23f7961c.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff  Searching for 'post-apocalyptic pressure mask' has some promising images, maybe you can try that.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on June 24, 2021, 04:52:02 AM

Quote from: nweismuller on June 23, 2021, 08:15:12 PM

>A circle with some latitude and longitude lines is a recognisable symbol of 'the globe'

>Searching for 'post-apocalyptic pressure mask' has some promising images, maybe you can try that.

Well, that made the logo a bit easier to produce. Adding a book below the logo didn't feel right so I instead tried making figures holding up the globe, "bearing the weight of Terra".

To my frustration, I can only find pictures of women wearing those mouth-only masks. However I did find something that could be serviceable. See for yourself. You can also see my prototypes for tribal logos: the "mouth" of a mind worm (adapted from Morgan logo, brood pit, and planet cult) and imagery based on monoliths, precursors, resonance, and psionics.

This reminds me of a question about the tribals, are they more human or more "native"? Would you more closely compare them to the planet cult, or the gaians? Their dialogue ("let us smoke the pipe of peace" etc...) and connection to planet feels inconsistent alongside tech blurbs describing their pure pragmatism.

It's good to hear you like the work so far. I can't wait to get the graphics all done so I can actually get playing (every time I try to play I inevitably start working on the art instead).

Balance notes from a few graphics tests/poking around (I enabled accelerated starts to have more to look at):
- The Cartel is CRIPPLED by low support, especially when the ai is controlling(they like building a lot of units). -3 support is workable but "informal" politics knocks you into -4 support. -2 minerals per unit from the get-go is a huge price for +1 econ and +1 efficiency. The cartel should be immune to that support hit as well.
- I like that the starting civics have effects, but their being purely negative feels off. The early game is slow enough in vanilla. Perhaps these civics could be useful in the early game but poorly scalable for the late game.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on June 24, 2021, 02:06:48 PM

The Tribals are... essentially humans who have undergone societal regression under the stresses of near-extinction after Planetfall and being conditioned by the Planetmind.  They venerate the 'spirits of the world' in a way that's probably closer to Gaian religious practise than Cult practise, but their simple, crude society probably looks more like the Cult.  They resort to technological pragmatism, but it's mixed with shamanistic religion and superstition, because their lifestyle has heavily exposed them to the Planetmind's psionic influence.  Ideologically, they're humbler than the Cult, and are presumed to syncretise Catholic religious practise with their shamanistic practises under the influence of the Holy See in the timeline suggested by the blurbs (although this obviously doesn't necessarily happen).  Fear and awe of the mindworms as, essentially, the agents of anger of the spirits of the world, but unlike the Cult they wouldn't venerate mindworms.  Much of their society can be understood as the tradeoffs between the needs of survival and the visions their shamans get under telepathic influence from the Planetmind, which they are very reluctant to anger because they know it can kill them.  The societal regression not entirely 'natural'- the mental influence of the Planetmind has nudged them into a format which can be adapted into the local ecology.  The first Tribals were children of a modern society, and never planned to regress to neo-primitives, but the Planetmind can work more easily with humans in something closer to their ancestral social structure, and it 'encouraged' decisions that pushed to a regression to tribalism.

That picture for a Tribal leader looks great, I can see that being High Chief Joseph.

Part of the idea with penalties for starting social engineering is to make it less tempting to stick with the defaults in the long term, but you're right, -4 SUPPORT is brutal.  Maybe it would be best to remove penalties to default social engineering choices for now, although slowing down the early game even further honestly doesn't bother me.  Keep the feedback up, and I'll try to work to update the files.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on July 08, 2021, 10:56:00 PM

That makes sense; not as traditionally human as the Gaians but not as insane as the Cult. What do you imagine the high-tech tribals to be like then? How does one produce nanobots in such a society?

From my experience (single-player only), there are situations where you might stick to the default choices while you wait for a particular policy to be unlocked, but I don't see the logic for keeping default SE choices in the long term. Even then, the price you pay is the opportunity cost of NOT specializing your faction. That said, I do like the idea of the default choices having effects, it just makes things more complicated from a balance perspective (especially since you're stuck with them for quite a while!).

Art stuff: (Each bullet here is an attachment)

- Found a better pic for the cartel leader, but I'm not convinced that it fits. I also improved the recoloring for their bases and I'm pleased with the results.
- Produced a logo for the tribals. I'm not certain if the mind worm is appropriate, but I quite like it.
- Found a leader pic for the preservers, the scene and demeanor feel appropriate.
- Created a leader pic for the dame. Her attractive appearance makes for a good contrast with du lac.

Until now, I somehow failed to notice that the purple colors used in the anarchist logo are the very same colors used to mark transparency for .pcx files. Thanks to palette limitations we have the following options: lilac shades (similar to those used by the data angels) or a single shade of hot pink. I could use these colors to highlight the edges of the black parts of the logo, making this palette compromise less obvious. (See attachment of the dame for color samples)

Anyways, besides the above issue and some nitpicks, here's what's left to be done:
- Anarchist Bases (Still stuck debating what works best color/theme-wise)
- Preserver Bases (Just need to do defenses & sea bases)
- Unicorp logo & faction profile

Unicorp. The worst of Morgan and the Hive mixed together, right? My understanding of this faction feels the weakest, and I suspect that is holding me back. Do they try to look humanitarian to other factions? Or do they embrace their practices like the hive? How close are they to some sort of Stalinist state-capitalism sort of arrangement?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on July 10, 2021, 01:25:42 AM

First off, in the palette.pcx file in the version of the files I uploaded you should see the colors I chose from the palette for Anarchist colors.  I'm away from my computer right now and can't check it, but it might guide you on that.

The leader images all look reasonable to me, honestly.

Unicorp- the central premise that animates Unicorp is that Chiron is a hostile environment that naturally rejects human life, and, in the face of that, what is required is disciplined cooperation to shape the environment and build what is needed.  Any version of Unicorp, regardless of social engineering, has as a key assumption that there is legally one and only one employer within Unicorp territory- and work is mandatory.  Unicorp will dispose of labor as it views necessary to achieve its objectives to build a colony wherein humanity can survive.  Officially, Unicorp might deplore 'abuses' of its labor force, but as an matter of external public relations, it will hold that maintaining absolute authority over its population to assure that a cohesive and disciplined response to the challenges of the world is necessary, even if unchallenged authority and no competition provides fertile ground for abuses.  Their argument to outsiders is that they are doing what is necessary, even if harsh, to build a better world, and that criticism based on 'human rights' or 'individual freedoms' betrays unserious sentimentalism that sacrifices actual human survival based on raw emotion.

(The Cartel, meanwhile, notes archly that Unicorp is sacrificing literal human lives and long-term economic growth through innovation in the name of doing that which is currently technologically possible on a massive scale, believing that there's a very specific emotional error of fear fueling Unicorp's policy there.)

The Unicorp mindset is very much that of knowingly and willingly setting up society as a set of sacrifices to the greater good, in the hope of eventually completely mastering the external environment.  In some ways, they can be compared to the Loyalists, but unlike the Loyalists the Unicorp focus on the great threat to be overcome is the external environment and the economic challenges of human survival, as opposed to the Loyalist focus on internal and external military/political enemies to state survival.

Very high-technology Tribals are, admittedly, a little hard to picture, particularly if they lead the tech curve.  Reliance on bartering and salvaging technology from more technologically-advanced factions with better manufacturing capabilities seems a likely source for difficult technologies for Tribals in a more 'normal' game.  Presumably Tribals with actual hab complexes and growing settlements get settlements that are at least closer to more conventional factions that can serve as something of an industrial center.

Edit: does that help you get a handle on the Unicorp mindset and society, more?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on July 11, 2021, 01:38:33 AM

Yes, now I have a less stereotyped understanding (Though I was pretty close with the whole Stalinist thing). Suddenly, "Before the hostility of this world, there is no margin for error and no room for those who do not pull their own weight. " rings much truer.

Whenever I've been at a loss logo-wise, I've fallen back on the iconography from facilities, techs, and secret projects. I'm thinking doing something similar for unicorp to illustrate this idea of overcoming the external environment. Imagine the human silhouette from hab complexes on top of say, industrial automation.

It could go either way, but I imagined the Tribals taking some influences from the Progenitor's remnants. Their high planet rating helps you find a lot of alien artifacts (This is why their art has artifacts and monoliths in their larger cities).

And yeah I'll take a peek at that palette file again.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on July 30, 2021, 11:06:51 PM

I was burnt out on SMAC for a few months, but I'm feeling about it now. I'm still working on my own crossover fanfic that includes the SMAC Fac Pack factions, but I'm wondering if there's anything I can help with this actual mod, at least when it comes to consolidating the text files? Or are they all good now?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on July 31, 2021, 02:07:20 PM

The biggest issue with the text files currently is that I really need to go through TECHLONGS and make the category and tier reported for all prereqs is accurate for changes to tech weights and the structure of the tech tree.  If you want to review alpha.txt and TECHLONGS.txt and make sure everything is set properly, that'd be great, but I wouldn't blame you for leaving it to me.  I have an updated version of the files, putting a bandaid on the balance issues by stripping out the effects of default social engineering choices.  I'm not 100% happy with this solution, but it beats the pants off the current balance problems with the Cartel.  Other than that, we just need updated images.  One thing that might be useful for images, incidentally, is if whoever reviews alpha.txt and TECHLONGS.txt noted which techs changed category between Explore/Discover/Build/Conquer, so our fearless image editor could change the colors on the appropriate icons.  And, if they were inspired with good icon designs for tech024.pcx (for Plasma Dynamics) and tech070.pcx (for Life Extension), that'd be great.  (Totally understandable if Friendly Sven wants to punt on that, though.)  I'm actually quite happy with the help, and am looking forward to when Friendly Sven puts the faction image files out for our use!

Edit: Aside from the purely mechanical work of going through TECHLONGS, there are some matters requiring judgement I could use a hand thinking about.  To wit:

1) I find myself not really happy about the Catholic ECONOMY penalty, and uncertain the SUPPORT bonus really fits right.  I'm half-inclined at this point to strip out the SUPPORT bonus and ECONOMY penalty, replace it with some other base SMAC-compliant penalty (but what?), and add free rec commons as a perk to reflect the inherent factional traditions of church-supported charity and the role of churches serving as the center of social life, thus making life easier for their least fortunate.  Thoughts?
2) On reflection, I think it's possible it might be more thematic to swap the MORALE and PROBE bonuses between Anarchists and Loyalists, making Anarchists expert in asymmetrical warfare and espionage and more dedicated to their cause against foreign ideas, and making Loyalists the experts in conventional warfare.  Again, thoughts?
3) I'm not sure the factional tech priorities are quite correct as it stands.  Preservers, Cartel, and Anarchists as Explore/Discover, Build/Discover, and Discover/Conquer make perfect sense to me.  The other four, I'm actually having second thoughts about, and could use somebody to review my thoughts here.  Loyalists as Build/Conquer, on reflection, feels too much like they inherited it from Yang while not noting Yang's industrial focus with his slave labor in the base game.  Not sure if the Build fits, not sure if any other secondary priority fits, the Conquer definitely fits.  Unicorp as pure Build feels like it misses the intended focus Unicorp has on big planetary engineering projects, I can easily see them as Explore/Build to nudge them towards things like Ecological Engineering.  Catholics as Explore/Conquer again feels like it's too much straight inherited from the Believers; I'm very tempted to make them straight Explore.  On the other hand, the Tribals as pure Explore seems not quite to catch what I feel would be an emphasis in their tribal society on weapons and methods of war as highly-valued; I think they may work better as Explore/Conquer.  Sanity check here?
4) In general, I'm interested in people doing gameplay review of the factions and making sure they're at least vaguely balanced.  Perfect balance is of course unachievable, but if any are blatantly too strong or too weak I want to know.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on September 28, 2021, 03:33:39 PM

OK, after reviewing what OTHER factions get, and not being all that happy with the ECONOMY penalty for the Catholics... does anybody see any way there could be a reasonable argument for them instead having an EFFIC penalty?  Considering stripping the SUPPORT bonus, the ECONOMY penalty, adding an EFFIC penalty, which would be unique for current factions, and giving them free rec commons.  Still waiting for any thoughts on any of the other things I raised.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on July 06, 2022, 12:20:43 AM

I've transcribed the SMAC Fac Pack factions onto the wiki here:

https://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Category:SMAC_Fac_Pack%27s_factions

I had to change the Society of Free Thought's .txt file to ANARCHISTS.txt, because ANARCHY.txt already belongs to a different custom faction (https://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/The_Anarchists) on the wiki, and so the faction image file ANARCHY.png auto-populates into the Society's entry. I think that's hardcoded behavior and couldn't override it.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on July 07, 2022, 02:24:00 AM

A new interation of the SMACFacPack, with a few text fixes in the Catholics, a redesign of Catholic bonuses, and changes to tech agendas for Unicorp, Loyalists, and Catholics is attached.  As ever, feedback is appreciated.

Also curious, Friendly Sven, if you're still messing around with creating art for it.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on February 16, 2023, 04:32:14 PM

@BU, this project was very almost finished. As you're looking for something to promote, how about pulling the art together from Friendly Sven's posts and we can put out a new release with nweismuller's text files?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 04:39:54 PM

Hmm.  That scans.

Any suggestions as to which art?  I can't be objective with so much of my own work stolen repurposed - which honestly delights and flatters me; I should have said so much sooner.  ^Pardon the kidding^.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on February 16, 2023, 05:24:19 PM

I'd start from the most recent posts and work backwards until I had a complete set. Nweismuller and Friendly Sven offered their opinions on what they liked, so if there are multiple options then 6ou might follow those or just make the decisions yourself.

Better to release something and change it later if there are different opinions than not to release.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 06:00:17 PM

What still needs doing, and can we do it in six days?  Are you even talking about anything like that w/ having something in Downloads to link, not just this thread?  I was taking it as assembling a promo image -I should- and suggestions about the sales pitch would be welcome, especially if something(s) distracts me Sunday-Tuesday morning...  Pray elucidate.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on February 16, 2023, 07:19:45 PM

The various graphics for each faction need to be compiled into PCXs and then packaged with the text files, tested and then zipped and uploaded to Downloads.

If you make the PCXs, then I would be happy to do the other things.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 08:58:40 PM

...

Deal.


My impression is Sven had most of it ready to drop into the blank.pcx and save.  Easy.  I'll get on this sometime today.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 16, 2023, 09:35:53 PM

If you have questions or need my input, I should be able to get back to you soon.  I'm out of town and away from my forum login until Saturday evening after some point later today, but otherwise I'll respond as quickly as I can.  Honestly, it's good to see some response here finally.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 11:35:15 PM

I would be helped by an elevator pitch for this set - don't worry about it being good, just describe what's special/different/appealing about these factions.  Middlin' shortish paragraph ideal.  I'll make sure it's good before I promote w/ it...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 17, 2023, 03:10:23 AM

Slightly altered from the current readme...

'The SMACFacPack is a modification for the original Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri game that posits a different mix of personalities that split into a different set of factions on the Unity and on Chiron's surface.  In addition to replacing all seven factions, it makes a series of changes to the game rules and technology tree for a somewhat more difficult early period of settlement on Chiron, as well as shifting around several other elements in the technology tree to the designers' taste.  Of particular note to most players is a reduction in the nutrient output of forests, a significant delay in the availability of sea bases, and the removal of supply crawlers.  The factions, as in the original game, are meant to be a more or less plausible ideological division of the Unity crew, but driven by different personalities and events in the crisis aboard the Unity.'

If you want the really short summary of the seven factions individually, I can also do that.

Edit: if you're curious if the faction designs actually more or less fit the intent to be 'ideological division that might emerge', you could ask MysticWind or somebody else actually familiar with the faction set- I'm obviously biased.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 17, 2023, 03:19:39 AM

I might trim the wording a little to fit in before Facebook cuts off with a See More...  -But that's exactly what I needed, thanks.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 18, 2023, 12:30:14 PM

So what exactly are the promo plans, I'm curious?  And grateful the mod is getting the attention.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 18, 2023, 01:13:53 PM

Well, mostly a pic and a link w/ a short sales pitch on Facebook - all the eyes in the online world, there, if only you can get attention.  There's a SMACX group, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri Players (https://www.facebook.com/groups/131175990236847/) that seems very much the most useful spot, moreso than AC2's own page.

Boy, 11 years ago, we'd be hitting about 20 different places when we promoted - sisko, the other owner, 's a multilingual Euro.  I'm not up on the foreign-language scene these days, and it was pretty maginal even then, w/ the game that much younger and English-language Civ communities considerably more of and healthier.

But I SHOULD bother with CFC and Apolyton - their ACs are two flavors of dead or near, but always many lurkers/eyeballs/casuals to get the word out to...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 19, 2023, 03:42:25 PM

...I suck.  This is probably an easy/quick job that I should have gotten to Thursday like I said I would, but just not feeling like solitary work lately, want conversation, trying to get started today but peed away several hours this morning already doing mostly conversation work - there is such a thing for a manger.

SO - Draz, I've screwed you out of most of the weekend for doing your end already; let's bump this a week and I'll upload another Bases.pcx Tuesday morning and pitch that.  I'm trying to get my end of this done today, like, start NOW.  So that seems best to give you time...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 19, 2023, 04:26:18 PM

For what it's worth, it sounds like Friendly Sven may be willing to get back to finish up the last bits of art work, he's just been dealing with recovering from some health issues.  He says he has about a week left of work for the last unfinished bits, although when he can start is unspecified.  Once that art is up, I'm going to try and do a comprehensive review of the text files to catch any issues in techlongs and figure out any issues with tech icons.  (Notably, Plasma Dynamics and Life Extension should probably get real icons, and I need to make sure all the existing techs stayed the same type with weight adjustments applied.)

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on February 19, 2023, 04:30:23 PM

@BU, No you don't. No worries about not sending the images, I haven't been waiting on you (I've been playing boardgames and hanging out)  :) I'll just react once you post the images.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 19, 2023, 07:02:11 PM

Well, if Sven wants to finish up himself, for many reasons it should be him doing that work.  The authors both have intention to complete, and it's all theirs to make that call.

Draz, let's pick something else for Tuesday after -and I'm not married to that particular day, either, just to weekly where it's doable- and pray Sven's up to staring on fairly fast completion in about a week.


---


More Bases files where that comes from for promoting on short notice - I been doling those out slow for ten years; I got WAY ahead on that.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: MysticWind on February 19, 2023, 11:10:31 PM

Quote from: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 11:35:15 PM

I would be helped by an elevator pitch for this set - don't worry about it being good, just describe what's special/different/appealing about these factions.  Middlin' shortish paragraph ideal.  I'll make sure it's good before I promote w/ it...

I’d say something along the lines of:

“Provides a unique set of ideologically diverse factions expanding the possibilities of Alpha Centauri, all-new tech quotes from seven new fully-realized faction leaders, and a cohesive story about this alternate Unity mission.”

Totally subject to editing, just spitballing here.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 20, 2023, 12:01:04 AM

Oooh, that's really helpful.  Really good quick preface to N's stuff, maybe.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 20, 2023, 04:32:40 AM

Quote from: MysticWind on February 19, 2023, 11:10:31 PM

Quote from: Buster's Uncle on February 16, 2023, 11:35:15 PM

I would be helped by an elevator pitch for this set - don't worry about it being good, just describe what's special/different/appealing about these factions.  Middlin' shortish paragraph ideal.  I'll make sure it's good before I promote w/ it...

I’d say something along the lines of:

“Provides a unique set of ideologically diverse factions expanding the possibilities of Alpha Centauri, all-new tech quotes from seven new fully-realized faction leaders, and a cohesive story about this alternate Unity mission.”

Totally subject to editing, just spitballing here.

That's an amazing review, and deeply flattering to me.  Thank you very much.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on February 21, 2023, 02:17:40 PM

Minor update, sounds like part of why Friendly Sven dropped off of work is because he thought he had email updates for thread responses set, so didn't notice the responses to the thread I was making, and then came with the proposed promo, heh, and so he felt as if there was a lack of interest.  That said he's planning to finish things up when he can.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Buster's Uncle on February 21, 2023, 02:45:22 PM

He was by in the middle of the night.  ;b;

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on March 14, 2023, 08:20:24 AM

Hey all, I'm back from my hiatus. Thank you all for your patience.

First, Let's go over my work.
Not entirely shown: I've done a lot of little refinements here and there to bring my flat logo arts closer to vanilla logos and cleaned up some leader faces.
Attachment 1: Preserver bases are done and I'm quite happy with the results. they aren't too big and you almost can't tell I kit-bashed the university/peacekeepers
Attachment 2: I'm very conflicted on the unicorp logo. I feel like they might be tasteless enough to use raw text, but it feels cheap. Of all the elements up there, which do you like? I'm actually partial to the wrench; it was the university logo in development versions of SMAC, so it'd be fun to reuse, somehow. I'm open to new leader pics as well. B is okay but I'm trying to find one looking INTO the camera. I've also recolored the bases to match the faction color while still being somewhat different to the free drones. I'm considering adding further distinction by adding little hab domes around the industrial plant.
Attachment 3: du Lac has approved the necessary requisitions of paint in order to color her facilities blue. I'm also considering replacing the lazy logo with a Unity Mission patch I stole borrowed from The Unity Project (SMAC mod for Beyond Earth, link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=366626684 ) I think it would make sense for du Lac to use such a symbol for legitimacy.
Attachment 4: I originally indicated the defense level of tribal bases with fungal towers and scaled unit sprites; it was neat, but visually confusing. They now use a mix of human and progenitor defenses; symbolizing their unique relationship with Planet. The perimeter defenses need a touch up but you get the idea.
Attachment 4.5: I forgot about this, but there's actually two versions of catholic bases. one is just... browner than the other; which do you prefer? I've considered using blending the two to create the impression that parts are dirtier than others but it would take more than a few minutes to do.
Attachment 5: I tried the purple player color. it looks alright but it makes the logo flat. is the lilac acceptable for the texture? I've also tried a radically different approach for their bases, still very rough of course. What do you think of the cyber-industrial theme and color scheme? The old bases felt a little too passive for them.

Now, Depending on how quickly we'd like to get this done, there's a number of finer details that could be covered.
-Small report buttons should be tinted blue to be consistent with vanilla.
-I still need to do the the fac2 and 3 files, though their occurrence is rare (just defeat/ monument). In my infinite wisdom I didn't make the faction logos at this high resolution, so It'd take a while to recreate/upscale them.
-Ever notice those little slideshows in the bottom left when conducting diplomacy? They're driven by <faction>.FLC files and I'm wondering if I could slap together some for these factions. they're so low res I'd probably just reuse source material that was rejected. Wouldn't be too hard with the right know-how.
-And one last note, the music. I don't know how you've mangled the original factions for this mod but I do know that music tracks are consistent, but not entirely appropriate, imo. Perhaps we could rearrange this?
First of all: There are 5 "themes" of music in SMAC, I don't know of any official names, so:
industrial theme- Morgan and Yang
ecological theme - Deidre and Lal
scientific theme - Zak
militarist theme - Santiago
religious theme - Miriam
Here's the current distribution of these themes by faction, followed by what I think would be more appropriate for that faction.
Catholics- religious
preservers - industrial - prefer ecological
Unicorp - ecological - prefer industrial
tribal - scientific - prefer ecological
cartel - industrial
loyalists - militarist - prefer scientific
anarchy - ecological - prefer militarist
(The guitar riffs of the militaristic/spartan theme are too unruly for the loyalists)
Assuming I'm not the only one who cares, does anyone know how this could be done?

Alright, I think that's everything. From here on out, I'll check in more often, let's say weekly, unless stated otherwise.
Off to bed...

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on March 14, 2023, 06:05:12 PM

Least satisfying things first: I have no idea how the game selects music for a faction, regrettably.  If I knew I might be able to do something about it.  Does anybody have insight?

So, yes, I'm liking the Preserver bases, well-done.

For Unicorp, I'll admit my working mental image of their logo was basically 'NUI'- 'New Unity Industries' on a plate (yeah, raw text is tasteless, but you're right, Unicorp is like that), but I'll confess that the wrench certainly could fit quite well.  Let's avoid making them look too cheap, shall we?  I don't have immediate suggestions for leader portrait, but I'll keep an eye out.

The blue Spartan bases for Mission Loyalists work well in my mind; I'm satisfied.  Using the Unity mission patch actually is a great idea; go ahead and use that.

I can accept Tribal bases; the Tribals are definitely on the weirder end of what bases would look like, and I can buy this appearance involving opportunistic shelter for a settlement in local terrain.

I think I like the second/warmer/browner look for Catholic bases.  Just a personal preference.

Lilac for the texture for the Anarchists looks fine to me, and the cyber-industrial setup I can definitely buy.  Good work there.

Go ahead, take your time, and do what's needed to handle the fine details with report buttons, fac2 and fac3, and the like.  This project has waited how many years?  A little time to let you polish your work more would hardly hurt.

Anyhow, as promised, this means I'll start going through TECHLONGS and making sure the type and level for the techs mentioned is accurate.

... OK, I've yet to edit TECHLONGS, but I've just reviewed alpha.txt and noted down the category and level of all technologies with FacPack prereqs and weightings.  Notably, these technologies have changed category, and probably should get color edits: Frictionless Surfaces is now a Conquer tech, Unified Field Theory is now a Discover tech, Graviton Theory is now a Conquer tech, Applied Gravitonics is now a Conquer tech, Intellectual Integrity is now a Discover tech, Synthetic Fossil Fuels is now a Conquer tech, Photon/Wave Mechanics is now a Build tech, Biomachinery is now an Explore tech, Eudaimonia is now a Build tech, Secrets of Alpha Centauri is now an Explore tech, and Sentient Econometrics is now a Build tech.  The new technologies Plasma Dynamics (Conquer) and Life Extension (Build) should probably get their own images.  I could probably rename Plasma Dynamics to Plasma Mechanics without any real lore issues, and thereby allow the gear iconography used for 'machine/mechanics/engine/engineering' in Alpha Centauri visual language, if that makes the work of figuring an icon easier- would that be useful to you?  But, before anything else... lunch.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on March 16, 2023, 12:16:20 AM

Quote from: nweismuller on March 14, 2023, 06:05:12 PM

Least satisfying things first: I have no idea how the game selects music for a faction, regrettably.  If I knew I might be able to do something about it.  Does anybody have insight?

I had a hunch it had do with how you had replaced the original factions, and it seems I was right.
The order of factions in alpha.txt is used to determine which factions get which music. So you just need to rearrange the factions to get the desired music themes. I confirmed this by lining up my observed music themes for the Fac-Pack factions with vanilla/modded #FACTION section of alpha.txt (see attached). For example, the Catholics had the right music because they were in the same position as the Believers.

Here's an arrangement of factions that gives the desired music for each faction:
#FACTIONS
TRIBALS,  TRIBALS
UNICORP,  UNICORP
LOYALIST, LOYALIST
CARTEL,   CARTEL
ANARCHY,  ANARCHY
CATHOLIC, CATHOLIC
PRESERVE, PRESERVE

The only catch is that other faction-specific things may also rely on faction order.
I immediately noticed that Player colors were one of them, but I'm confident that re-arranging the colors in the .pcx file to match will fix that.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on March 16, 2023, 12:37:43 AM

The other major faction-specific thing we might want to account for is the baked-in hostility between Spartans and Peacekeepers, between Believers and University, and between Morganites and Gaians.  If this works similarly based on faction order, this means one 'ecological' music faction will be hostile to each of one militarist and one industrialist music faction, and the scientific music faction will be hostile to the religious music faction.

Notably, the primary rival for the Anarchists should probably be either the Catholics or the Loyalists.  Hmmm.  You have thoughts on the best compromises between music tracks and logical rivalries?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on March 16, 2023, 03:43:23 AM

Well, if the faction order is indeed what drives the aggression between natural enemies, that should take precedence over music. I can see most themes working for multiple factions.

What do you think are the 3 core conflicts of the Fac Pack Factions?
Anarchist vs. Loyalist (Frankly I think this is mandatory. It's the "main story" and the faction's goals are perfect opposites)
Unicorp vs. Cartel (Seems like one you had in mind)
Preserver vs. Tribal (Hadn't considered it until now but it actually sounds cool. Earth v. Chiron)
Tribal vs. Unicorp (Analogous to Gaian v. Morgan)
Catholic vs. Preserver (Analogous to Miriam v. Zak, but seems weak)

and since 1 faction is left out, which faction shares the... neutrality... of the hive? That faction would have the industrial music.

The first three conflicts are my personal favorites, making the Catholics my "leftover" faction. That said, terran.exe might be using faction order for ai behavior in general. We wouldn't want the Catholics behaving like Yang.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on March 16, 2023, 05:19:30 AM

AI behavior, as far as I can tell, is set by the Explore/Discover/Build/Conquer priorities set, the agenda/aversions, the aggression, and the in-built rivalries.  All of these but in-built rivalries happen based on stuff I have access to in modding.  That said- Anarchist/Catholic, Unicorp/Tribals, and Cartel/Loyalists actually could work without any of the rivalry pairs being *too* weak conceptually.  Preserver/Tribal and Preserver/Catholic really don't knock my socks off as rivals.

Anybody else have any thoughts here?

Edit: Oh, wait, looks like there may be one more rival pair- last line on this page:

https://archive.org/details/Sid_Meiers_Alpha_Centauri_Prima_Official_eGuide/page/n14/mode/1up?view=theater

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: DrazharLn on March 16, 2023, 12:56:55 PM

I don't think faction rivalries are based on the faction number. For a definite answer you would have to run some experiments or ask Scient or Induktio.

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 23, 2023, 07:00:49 PM

Any updates, Friendly Sven?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: Friendly Sven on May 23, 2023, 11:28:43 PM

Nothing worth showing off so far, unfortunately. I believe I've found a way to upscale the logos quite painlessly (in short: make SVG from low-res graphics, use SVG to make high-res graphics), but I haven't had the time to sit down and actually learn how to do it.

I also tried a number of kit-bash variations with the anarchist bases, but it just didn't look right. I think I'll try again with something similar to what I showed previously with the standard consciousness props in the foreground. It should be distinct enough.

Did you figure out if faction rivalries are based on faction order?

Title: Re: SMAC Fac Pack
Post by: nweismuller on May 24, 2023, 04:52:20 AM

No luck yet, and not going to worry about it until testing indicates it's a problem.