Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Command Nexus => Topic started by: Kataphraktoi on October 01, 2013, 06:25:40 PM

Title: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 01, 2013, 06:25:40 PM

Darsnan has graciously agreed to CMN this game, so we should discuss the game settings.

Quote

...post your game options (world size, water versus land level, NL intensity, Faction preferences, etc.), or just send me a PM with the options (and have Kirov either E-Mail me or PM me his password preference as well) and I'll get to it as I get time. I'll also think about what units I think think AIs should have, so I'll give you that list beforehand so you can definatively say yes or no to the proposed units before I build the game.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 01, 2013, 06:39:38 PM

My thoughts would be along these lines;

Huge map
Native Life:Average Or Abundant
Land\Water ratio:Either 30-50% or 50-70% (I do like good continents :) )
Cloud cover: Dense
Unity pods: off or greatly reduced (I like pods but i understand they can be too good)


An AI that isnt just ripe fruit to be exploited is nice as well, although if they tech up too well then probing them would be too good of an option. About secret projects, maybe the CBA\EG should be removed from play.

Factions: I was thinking of playing Sparta :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 01, 2013, 07:31:34 PM

You woke up Darsnan from his slumber!  :o Truly, the Prophecy was right. We must not fail to take this opportunity.

But are we sure we want a huge map? I've always considered SMAC to suffer from so-common 'snowball effect', where the better player can climbs up to a get-away point after which nobody can touch him, and very often this takes place even before any serious confrontation. The bigger the map, the worse this case, obviously. Of course, your playing Sparta can change a lot. Do you want it to make a builder vs. fighter on Huge or am I to take some Miriam or someone like that?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 01, 2013, 07:40:55 PM

You are probably right about that, because of that snowball effect the game becomes more about drop orbital warfare. Its the usual TBS problem of armies becoming obsolete before they arrive. Lets make it Large then? But one thing about the huge map is you can just put the players closer together so they are same distance as a Large, but maybe that just leaves alot of dead and pointless map space.

Take any faction you like, but maybe not Zak. Free Drones, Hive, Morgan wouldnt be too out of line, depending on your faction affinity. Or Lal, Aki, etc.  I had a builder strategy in mind for Sparta but it cant compete with the best Zak can bring.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 09:26:50 PM

And here we go  :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 09:37:24 PM

Fantastic! As is tradition, good luck and have fun. :)

Scient's patch and stockpiling on, am I right?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 09:41:43 PM

Yup.

And im pretty sure the savegame attached to your last post is a gaian midturn save  :P

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 09:49:01 PM

I'm afraid it's not. When I click the end turn, the game jumps to make next turn already! Checked in two copies. You ever heard of something like that? I'm afraid we need to contact Darsnan about it.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 10:05:40 PM

So i loaded the game at 2101, sent to you, and its 2101 on your turn and then endturn button makes a 2103??

Yes we will need to post there about it. Im a bit confused at the moment what the problem is so as to say some intelligible about it though

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 10:11:27 PM

Can you not open the save game you just posted with your own password? It says gaians ingame

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 20, 2013, 10:23:58 PM

Yes, my password works, I reached '04 or '05. Simply put, it looks like a passworded single game. I don't want to try it any further not to get any undue advantage. And no, I haven't experienced or heard about anything like that and my other saves work fine. So as I'm surprised as you are.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 20, 2013, 10:32:13 PM

Ok,i made a post

BTW isnt it your turn to play in the waterworld pbem? Your the technocrats

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Darsnan on October 21, 2013, 04:07:56 PM

OK, I downloaded the save Kirov posted and was able to duplicate the issue.

I'm uploading a save a few more turns in from the scenario I generated this from (i.e. sort of a fresh start), and in which I played a few more turns into the game without issue (i.e. I get prompted for both players and their passwords). Can you download this and see if the issue continues or not with this version of the game?

Also, I am using scient's patch dated 3/27/09. Is this the same version you all are using?
 If not can you post it so I can ensure I am using the same executable?

Otherwise I don't know what's going on here - never had this issue before. :-/ We'll have to figure out a workaround, which may be that I just play an extra turn for everyone to clear this hurdle.

D

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 04:51:45 PM

Here we go again, but this time the free minerals get wasted on scout patrols, not scout rovers as intended...oh well.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 07:41:31 PM

I have the same, scouts instead of formers, so it's equal. :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 07:54:36 PM

I just noticed i was researching a tech towards IA and had to change, lost 2 turns research...OK let me recover from the mental shock of the nice start gone awry, i will stop whining after this last post  ;lol

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 08:09:06 PM

Don't worry, I have a horrible project tonight, translating a movie from audio, so I'm hardly in the mindset for SMAC. I promise to screw up something. :)

Do you have the same, that a colony pod without amphibious costs the same as the regular one?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 08:16:53 PM

Yes, i was removing amphib from all my units in the workshop thinking it would jack the cost through the roof, but i think all my units cost the same.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 08:40:41 PM

Yep, only formers are cheaper. I wonder how it doesn't apply to CP but applies to formers.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 08:47:02 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 21, 2013, 09:32:20 PM

bak

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 21, 2013, 10:42:24 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 01:25:31 PM

Crap, I told you yesterday I was going to make a mistake and I kept my word.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 01:43:10 PM

Im thinking at some point i might have to disband the scouts to free up support, doesnt make sense at the moment to do so
>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 01:52:56 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 02:39:28 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 02:59:27 PM

BTW, I thought you're not going for IA? Change of plans or that's the way it was to be?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 03:06:04 PM

Im beelining IntInt, picking up cent ecol first of course as usual

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 03:28:51 PM

I forgot about the Murphy's Law, that mind worms never spawn around you when you play Gaia.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 03:39:40 PM

Isnt that a good thing? The first worm capture chances are 100% IIRC.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 04:07:26 PM

yes, i'm looking for more, but can't find them. They all up and went somewhere else.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 07:55:54 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 08:06:04 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 08:58:28 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 09:12:21 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 09:27:09 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 09:42:52 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 09:53:01 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:00:04 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 10:23:08 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:29:20 PM

Well, well, Colonel Santiago met some poor [progeny of unmarried parents]. :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 10:38:15 PM

In the future of Sparta there is only Peace

Saw something different, a mindworm appeared in a spot far from fungus. I sure hope a IoD doesnt show up and start bombarding...  ???

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 10:57:47 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 10:38:15 PM

In the future of Sparta there is only Peace

I hear you, brother, I talk rubbish like that day and night when I go to the town. Hell, I peddle such BS well halfway through my enemy's empire. Here, let me try it:

Oooh, I hope that IoD doesn't hurt you. The Spartans are in my prayers and I send my best wishes to your people. :D 

Will it ever stop being funny?  :P

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 11:07:23 PM

Your well wishes have been gladly received and many a Spartan heart is warmed to hear of your concern for our people

Something like that?  ;lol Probably never.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 11:12:12 PM

;)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 22, 2013, 11:34:09 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 22, 2013, 11:52:07 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:24:13 AM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 12:46:58 AM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:53:18 AM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:00:47 AM

Average native life... *sigh*

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 01:24:48 AM

Maybe we should have balanced it with pods on, intense NL instead of pods off, average NL.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:34:27 AM

Doesn't sound like a bad idea, at least exploration would be more interesting for both of us, but with mind worms I could possibly trigger more pods than you. At least it's a risk.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 01:43:38 AM

Intense can potentially be useful for sparta though, as against any non +planet faction you would have a bit of an edge in farming mindworms. Hard to say, mindworms are also a luck thing like pods

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:53:35 AM

Amen, it's luck and we can't do much about it. Besides, I wasn't really complaining, just rumbling under my nose.

Probably one more turn and time to be reasonable and go to bed.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:54:14 AM

forgot the turn

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:00:28 AM

Rats, would like to keep you playing while your too bleary eyed to see what your clicking  ;)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 02:11:12 AM

It kinda happened already, I can't say I feel I'm creative here. :) And it's been ages since my last Gaia play. So time to say good night!  ;b;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:22:02 AM

Are you downloading the savs after you post them? Ive been wondering why all the last sparta savs have 4 downloads a piece

Go to sleep!

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 11:30:43 AM

Well, this happens in most threads, so I kinda assumed it's various US government organizations like the NSA. You can't be too safe, you know. Just think what sinister purposes can serve that in-game message screen in the hands of wrong people.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 11:51:57 AM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 12:00:22 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:08:09 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 12:22:16 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:29:31 PM

Nice tech acquisitions  :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 12:33:46 PM

Thanks, there are still nice people in the world.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:40:15 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 12:51:27 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 12:57:52 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:06:41 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 01:13:05 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:24:16 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 01:45:07 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 01:55:11 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:00:12 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 02:09:38 PM

Don't you love it when you lose a psi battle despite overwhelming positive odds? If you ask me, I adore it.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:16:55 PM

This game is usually pretty good at avoiding the civ4 nonsense of regularly losing 95%-99% battles

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 02:22:36 PM

I think both games are probably fine, it's just we half-expect win all the battles with odds 3:2. ;) The human brain is not hardwired to fully grasp probability.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:30:49 PM

3:2 is a long way from 95%  :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 02:40:09 PM

Quote from: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:30:49 PM

3:2 is a long way from 95%  :)

Yeah, but it feels like it. :)

Last turn for some time, need to go to the swimming pool and move my bones around a little.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 02:49:25 PM

Dang, you beat me to our target beeline techs by 2 turns. Feels like i am always playing catchup in our games...  :P

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 05:00:02 PM

What do you mean, I thought you weren't going for IA?

Besides, you kinda signed up for such an opening. :) With Planned, Wealth and inherent Effic, the fact that I'm only 2 turns faster proves that I suck as Deedee. I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the lack of FM - heavy ICS or vertical growth with GA. But honestly, considering the faction bonuses and my recent trade, I think you're doing better than me. Relax and start making mistakes. ;)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 05:24:34 PM

Ah, i was not complaining. It appears my strategy will be implementable as i had planned, and yes i have almost finished Intint(this turn). Remember my strategy is to initiate a pop boom before having the IA technology

Since IntInt and IA beelines have the same number of techs, that means you beat me by 2 turns even if i was researching the same as you :) I think thats how it goes anyway

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 23, 2013, 05:36:13 PM

Damn, how I'd love to counter that with Morgan ICS! Truly, I'm scared.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 23, 2013, 06:24:20 PM

I dont think i will end up with a big advantage even if i executed perfectly. My hope is to emerge into the midgame on somewhat even footing and take it from there. The idea is common that sparta has to go for a military attack early to win...i hope to play a builder game with more military potential than normal but not be forced into that attack-or-lose situation. I still have many things to do before that boom. Ive also made some suboptimal former decisions ill have to get worked out :/

What is scary is the idea of you pumping crawlers and hogging all the SPs  ;lol

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 02:41:48 PM

So you did decide to go FM? Make notes, at poly I claimed it's a valid idea for Santi not to get left behind, while CEO Aaron thinks it's a waste of her advantages.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 03:03:30 PM

Its a bit debatable for sure, but i want some ecs and tech speed before i switch back to planned. There isnt any pods to pop so i dont need to keep units outside my borders. If you werent playing gaians i would have strongly pushed for high native life and pods so going planned right away would have more benefits. Maybe though, i should be in planned and using the police asap but the tech cost is so insane otherwise...i am not sure to be honest

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 03:19:10 PM

Yep, it can be either way, seems you'll be our test pilot.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 03:27:29 PM

And also i never got so many techs(the ones leading to IA) so fast in my test games, very friendly AI

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 03:42:04 PM

Oh yes, I noticed your FM shortly after you mentioned IntInt.

Anyhow, I acquired commlink to you. Can I help you with anything? :)

Take your time with the turn, I'll be available later.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 04:32:00 PM

We are all good over here, thanks  :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 06:22:04 PM

Not even a treaty? Strange, you mentioned something about peace. Sorry, it was Peace, capitalized. Must have some other meaning, then.  :P

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 07:28:07 PM

Well there goes the neighborhood

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 07:42:20 PM

I'm sorry Kata, Miriam told me you we're beating her, I started to comfort her, one thing led to another... Long story short, we're at war. But..., we're cool, right?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 08:10:08 PM

As a block of ice  ;lol

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 08:23:45 PM

Let's not fight! That will be interesting. There's too much fighting in SMAC, isn't it?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 08:34:40 PM

It would be interesting if it was true   ;) Fast transcend battle?

Somehow i have the feeling that i will be happily building along and suddenly gaian IoDs show up packed with rovers catching the mighty spartans completely off guard  ;lol

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 08:45:26 PM

Oh mind worm, where art thou? They're never there when you need them. Which reminds me - I'm quite sure that worm hunting is still feasible for Sparta under FM, is it true? If you can say, of course. :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 09:00:19 PM

Morale +2 = 25% increase in combat strength
Free Market = %30 decrease in combat strength

Theres more to it than that of course like spending alot of time healing and being at risk defensively.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 24, 2013, 09:10:28 PM

I see. Meanwhile, the HGP is poised for completion. And Miriam started CN!  :o Would you sell the tech to me so that I take it away from her?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 24, 2013, 09:29:23 PM

Maybe for biogenetics and a commlink? And one other small thing;ask miriam to call off her vendetta on the spartans ;)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 01:39:04 AM

How much can you pay for my mediations? :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 01:45:05 AM

I would think thats covered by the tech and nice SP;or was that too much?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 03:51:52 AM

OK, I''try to talk some sense into her. :)

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 11:57:09 AM

You only need to ask her to call off the vendetta and select ''you need but name your price'' (which due to a bug is actually goodwill and friendship) and thats as far as your obligation goes. I sent you the doc loy and a treaty. You can declare vendetta after if you like but i think we need peace to call of a vendetta in the first place

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 01:25:19 PM

Sorry, it didn't happen. I wanted to do it first and only after that accept your proposal (so it's more fair). But when I started to talk with her, I completely forgot I can't ask for calling off if the both of us are at war... On the top of that, she is seething and demands my techs. So I went away with nothing and it looked as if she was about to turn down my next phone call. I checked and sure enough, she 'politely declined'.

I can try in several turns, but if I accept your offer, the first thing she'll demand will be attacking you... oh bummer.

But I'd like to point out one thing. This is Sparta!! Where's your spirit?  :P

I didn't know about that bug.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 01:56:44 PM

We can do the trade for Bio for DocLoy then, all i negotiated was that you call and ask, not that you obtain peace 100%.

I believe if you go into the diplomacy text files you can find a spot where the text for goodwill and friendship and ''name your price'' are in reversed spots, as i read several times on poly, but im not so technical that i know the details myself.

I already killed enough believing scouts to satisfy my spirit demands  ;lol

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 02:14:23 PM

let me think about it, I was half-joking there. CN for me is only for deny purposes, it's of little use for me now (it makes my very very green units into very green ones). ;) OTOH, don't you want to go for it yourself?

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 03:11:10 PM

The cliche answer is i want all the projects, including CN.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 03:21:12 PM

Well, I hate to break it to you, but it may be tough.

Anyhow, we can trade, but without the treaty. I won't be able to help you with Miriam, she calls me pagan and hates me already, if we sign peace, the next thing she demands will be war again.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 03:29:15 PM

It would be tough to build them all, yes.  :P Im just joking around here obviously. I know alot of people love the CN, MCC, and CDF as sparta but im not exactly sold on non-economic SPs early. Maybe i am missing the train here.

Im already at peace with Miriam since last turn, so you dont need to be concerned about that.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 03:42:31 PM

Well... let's stay at vendetta after all, I took one reputation hit already, I don't want to risk one more. And Miriam loves her some sneak attacks. ;) But apart from that, Bio for D:L is fine.

The PTS is poised for completion.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 03:58:05 PM

Very nice.

Deal is sent accepted.

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 04:11:34 PM

Pleasure doing business with you. Now I need to decide if I want that CN. Quite a poor SP in my opinion.

BTW, there's a common misconception about the Spartan bonus. +2 MORALE doesn't, in fact, give you + 2 Morale. It's right there on the SE screen - you have +1 Morale (+2 on defense). Yeah, I know it's not good news. Yet another drawback of Santi, as if she was too strong already.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 04:16:33 PM

Yup. Maniac wrote an article about moral sometime back, didnt he?

Did i put the wrong MY on this sav? Watch out for confusion

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 04:22:36 PM

Yeah, he did. It's just I noticed several times that people playing Sparta think they get to get hardened units, when in fact they're disciplined.

the turn is 54 now.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 04:39:15 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 04:45:55 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 04:52:58 PM

The actual 2155.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 05:02:48 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 05:11:46 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 05:18:39 PM

I forgot to mention, the WP is completed. And Miriam sneak-attacked me...

Take your time, I have a deadline for my job in 40 minutes.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 05:32:19 PM

Not much to do per turn yet. I started popbooming at 2148 in test games, really mucked up here i guess. My tech trading spree earlier has prevented gene splicing from being available so theres that..well lets see what i can come up with here  :)

Too bad about Miriam  :(

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 05:57:54 PM

I think I can handle her, it's just I didn't want to use too many resources for that purpose.

EDIT: typo

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 06:28:11 PM

That was my concern earlier as well

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 06:54:12 PM

 ;santi;

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 25, 2013, 07:22:36 PM

>>>

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 07:32:46 PM

Any idea why I'm at unprovoked vendetta with Domai? ;) I suspect sabotage here.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 25, 2013, 07:34:02 PM

I forgot: the VW poised for completion.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 26, 2013, 02:23:13 AM

Alright, i have to resign here. Gene Splicing is 15 turns away and the basis of my strategy was to work farms and forests with bases while transitioning into crawling for nutrients;thats simply impossible in a reasonable time. I misplayed the technology situation completely and got a situation where i couldnt pick Gene Splicing earlier, additionally the free market switch was probably a terrible mistake. I never got the basic bases running correctly utilizing any police benefits and just really, played poorly.

I have to apologize for such a terrible performance. Im sorry i couldnt deliver on my talk earlier and make it a more interesting game and i really have to play more practise games before using some new strategy in a multiplayer game when you cant reload 20 turns back to redo a certain part. Ive played hundreds of singleplayer games using the crawlers specialist strategy, so really i couldnt play this on autopilot. I still think there is something to the strategy-indeed managed to do so much better in my test games even on rugged enviroments but im afraid i somehow couldnt live up it here despite a fairly lush map and friendly AIs. Im rather ashamed to be honest.


What game settings we played was totally within my control, and i signed up for the game knowing what i might be in for, so i cant complain about anything. Ill probably go back to playing singleplayer challenge scenarios for awile.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on October 26, 2013, 02:01:24 PM

I perfectly see what you mean. And I mean literally see, because I infiltrated you in 2140, when we met. The game was essentially over even back then, but I wanted to play some more to see you pop-booming and see how many Projects I can grab.

Several comments on the gameplay:

Yes, you made a few mistakes like switching to FM, which was indeed a bad idea (only in the hindsight, back then I thought it’s valid). But apart from that, you don’t have much to kick yourself in the butt for. The main problem was playing Santiago as a half-baked builder. I take that back, the main problem was just playing Santiago. She really lost a lot in my eyes here. And this whole talk about going for IntInt, policing, etc. right now really seems a huge steaming pile of BS. I suspected it a bit, but I’m honestly surprised at the dismal inefficiency of Santiago trying to grow peacefully.

When we get to the bottom of this, there is only one reason you couldn’t win this game – mineral advantage. Deirdre can’t run FM, but her inherent bonus cancels out nicely with Planned, so she runs it for free. Considerably early IA gives her +2 Industry and option to build crawlers. And essentially the game was over at this moment. There is one thing which is not that obvious to many players – in SMAC, mineral advantage gives you initiative. With +2 Ind, I could afford to build an early probe foil. I found you very quickly due to the map layout (I started in the middle and had the Mount of Planet; I figured you must be in the middle as well, and then I saw another Mount of Planet; I swam there in a straight line and sure enough, quickly found and infiltrated Sparta Command; it was way too easy and something to mention to Darsnan). And early infiltration allows you to save a lot of minerals, because you know what you have to prepare for. Since 2140, I’ve known that I didn’t need defensive probes, patrolling boats or stuff like that. I didn’t even have to bother with sensors. All I did was switch my entire production to crawlers and take it from there.

In the last turn, after cashing towards VW, I’m left with 30 active crawlers. This means that I have built 64 crawlers in total, while you didn’t even have IA yet. I had several bases with eco-damage (21-25 minerals/turn). I think there’s absolutely nothing you could do about that. I consider you a good player, honestly, it’s just that the extent Santiago sucks... wow.

I also believed that pop-boom for Sparta is a valid strategy, but now I can only say to myself – really? You honestly thought that?

Without IA, you have no crawlers and are quickly left behind in the race for minerals. I crawled the entire Mount of Planet around and could fight Miriam using only one base.

Without Planetary Networks, you have no means to infiltrate and vastly limited capability to prevent infiltration. Here at ac2 not many people see the power of probes and infiltration and frankly, I’m really surprised about that. A successful infiltration allows you to save literally hundreds of minerals not spent on defences.

For the early pop-boom, you need farms instead of forest. This is yet again a huge deal, as they build longer and yield no energy. And don’t spread. No, foresting is the key to the early game, and now I’m inclined to think that pre-tree farm pop-boom is a suicide. Maybe it would be better with WP, but Sparta is not going to have WP.

You don’t compete for SPs and give your enemy a free reign here. Seriously, I was wondering if I can squeeze out all of them (including CN, ME and MCC) and the answer is: quite likely. I didn’t even need VW that much, what with HGP+PTS combo.

Building hordes of crawlers gave me a lot of money from stockpiling. Meanwhile, as Sparta you need to put at least CC and possibly RecCommons in all your bases, at the annoying 0 Industry at best. And with little money to hurry. All this means you can’t really build probes, make decent exploration, worm hunting, etc. The sole fact that you allow your opponent to take PTS effortlessly is a huge disadvantage of this strategy.

Kata, what were we thinking? This strategy is good for single player only. Sparta with IntInt has no crawlers, no money, no SPs, poor terraforming, and must count every mineral, so also no exploration, probe defence/offence, etc.

I want to explore and be good with all factions, even the sucky ones, so I’d be happy to thoroughly discuss it and set up a new game, maybe with another strategy, maybe I could play Sparta to see what my options are. Maybe we can both play Sparta. But the conclusion of this game remains for me that Sparta sucks big time. You really don’t have to be too harsh on yourself (but the next time, please don’t sell your map to Domai so I can buy it for 50 bucks). ;)

So what do you think? Do we play again? I’m all for it. Do we want to try something new with poor factions or go the standard route? I’m for the former again.

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kataphraktoi on October 26, 2013, 04:35:18 PM

It seems there isnt anything more to SMAC than the IA and crawler specialist strategy after all, and i obviously dont have the skill for anything else. BTW i definitely didnt sell my maps, unless i misclicked it during diplomacy with domai. And yea i kind of had the feeling you had infiltrated as i couldnt see any other spot of contact but a probe near my HQ. Normally i do beeline plan nets but i felt i had to go only for IntInt to honor the theme of our game.


I think you dont understand or have any comprehension how badly i played even leading up to 2130;it really wouldnt have mattered if i was beelining IA as gaians myself, i would have been badly behind. But i get it, its a put up or shut up game and you just cant talk about strategy if you cant walk the talk. You would probably be surprised if you saw the savs i did in SP and what times i got MMI on a worse map than this;more research with less crawlers, but obviously i couldnt get it working here.


For now i think i will stick just to the waterworld pbem and maybe finish more of the singleplayer challenge scenarios laying around unfinished. Quite frankly i feel an immense psychological pressure in these pbem games and i really cant live up to the expectations you keep heaping on, without getting into the nice rythem of singleplayer i simply dont have the awareness to be playing well right now. Im not a good player at the moment so dont say that...kind of annoys me to be honest. Its obvious ive been away too long to play decent and your playing well

Title: Re: Kirov VS Kata PBEM
Post by: Kirov on November 02, 2013, 03:20:26 PM

Well, I wasn't aware of all that. Alright then, hit me up if/when you want to play. I have some thoughts about Santiago, but recently no time to test them.