Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: ete on November 28, 2012, 10:49:58 PM

Title: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on November 28, 2012, 10:49:58 PM

Somewhere for me to dump bits and pieces of my experiences with various factions. Currently using the WPC version of network node factions since the download here won't unzip for me (tried 7z and jZip).

First game is with the Freelancers:
-1 MORALE: {Mercenaries fighting other peoples wars}
-2 PLANET: {No respect for the environment}
-3 ECONOMY: {Contract earnings}
+2 SUPPORT: {Excellent supply lines}
FREE FACILITIES: {Research Hospital (for casualties) at each base.}
{Headquarters at each base}
60% HURRY COSTS: {Factories geared up for wartime production.}
{May Not use Eudaimonic future society (military regime)}

Mainly attracted by wanting to know how HQ at every base works. Turned out that my version had +3 rather than -3 economy, no inefficiency ever due to all the HQs, and to top it off I started in the jungle on an island which seems to have no competitors other than worms. 2130 and I'm teching impossibly fast, rush building colony pods, and generally playing a totally broken faction.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 28, 2012, 10:59:02 PM

Quote from: ete on November 28, 2012, 10:49:58 PM

generally playing a totally broken faction.

You're gonna get that a lot, I think.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on November 29, 2012, 02:52:03 AM

yea, seems like it. That game I dominated faster than any other, only the large oceans and me playing for the endgame allowed it to last as long as it did. Total immunity from inefficiency due to HQs everywhere basically removes the penalty for having massive numbers of bases combined with an already absurd +3 econ and 60% hurry cost is.. just really really broken. And the penalties are insignificant (worms are slightly annoying, and a marginally weaker army). I wonder if it's possible to balance out the HQ at every base thing, since that seems like the most unique element of the faction. Even dropping econ right down to -3 (-2 energy per base) like the datalinks suggests it is seems unlikely to entirely manage that beyond the earlygame.. though I could be wrong. Either way, that seems unintuitive flavorwise.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Yitzi on November 29, 2012, 04:49:10 AM

Well, with +3 economy of course it'll be broken.
If you change it to -3, then you get an interesting faction...the HQ and hurry cost reduction, plus the heavy PLANET penalty, suggest an energy-focused faction, but with -3 economy the base square is producing no energy even with the HQ (or 1 with recycling tanks, back to normal for a non-HQ base if you run FM), so you probably want fairly large bases.  You'll probably want to run Planned/Police State for wartime or Planned/Democracy when you want to grow fast.  Obviously you'll want to emphasize energy in your terraforming/crawling, and have a fairly high cash slider.  You've got support to spare when running Police State, and cheap units are cheaper to hurry than expensive ones, so you'll probably focus on large numbers of 20- or at most 30-mineral units.  Which is probably a good idea anyway for dealing with what would otherwise be this faction's main weakness, namely a worm-based aggressive enemy.  Of course, that makes spore launchers quite a pain...

I think the faction's real weakness is that its attributes all work against each other.  The support bonus and immunity to the main effect of inefficiency suggest a militaristic approach, but a morale penalty suggests the opposite.  The prevalent HQs, free research hospital, and hurry bonus suggest an energy-based approach, but -3 ECONOMY means that it's impossible to get +1 energy/base, much less +1/square.  That said, a hurry bonus plus high support screams to me "rush lots of cheap units, and hope your enemy isn't using that much artillery".

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on December 01, 2012, 03:46:15 PM

Quote from: BUncle on November 28, 2012, 10:59:02 PM

Quote from: ete on November 28, 2012, 10:49:58 PM

generally playing a totally broken faction.

You're gonna get that a lot, I think.

This.

What I did with some of the network node factions I liked was all balance them to be around the same power level. It was a level stronger than most original factions, but meant that most games were sort of fair. Some NN stuff is just ridiculous.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on December 03, 2012, 04:54:40 PM

Second game was quite unusual, played as random with a load of customs available and got the Antimind:
+4 PLANET: {Able to tap into Planetmind's neural net to capture mindworms}
-3 INDUSTRY: {AntiMind experiences pain when pollution enters its "body"}
-2 GROWTH: {Human slaves are restricted from reproducing to maintain worm majority}
Free Ability: {Hypnotic Trance: Can turn psi powers aganst user}
+2 Nutrients and Energy in fungus squares
Immune to PLANET penalties
Receves free Mindworm unit at start
{May not use Free Market economics.}

The start was quite risky, I ran into another progenitor faction before I'd captured my first worm. Luckily my Battle Ogre beat theirs (ran up a river and attacked with a 1/3 penalty). Wiped them out, and another custom progenitor faction fell shortly afterwards due to mass mindworms and huge psi bonus (unlisted, but they have a 50% Psi bonus to go with the 40% bonus from +4 planet. This means larval mass worms have a good shot against Demon Boil Fungal Towers.). My actual bases were kind of pathetic due to the heavy industry/growth penalty (though Planned/Wealth mitigated it a bit), they contributed basically nothing to the war effort until the very end of the game. Anyway, no more nearby enemies, so I spent most of the game pop popping and killing/capturing native life on the large continent which had all but one player, which was kinda fun. Turns out an economy based almost entirely on mind worm killing is pretty great with the faction's psi bonuses, and I eventually rush built a few good projects. The +3nut/+2energy fungus also helped bases grow, though they were always somewhat mineral starved. I accepted bribes of 250+ credits from PK and Spartans for a treaty fairly early on, after initially planning an all out war on everyone.

Eventually I came into contact with the Usurpers who had a small but solid few cities and were a little mindworm resistant due to res armor on everything. But they were on res-6 weapons/res-3 armor, and somehow I had picked up two mk2 Battle Ogres from the pods.. so once they got there the battle was laughably one sided. The Spartans fell immediately to worms, and PKs next. Killed everyone in keeping with the faction's goal.

(http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/12/33711284029-orig.jpg) (http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/12/33711284029-orig.jpg)
Last to die was some custom faction, the terran league navy, which seems impressively balanced (possibly underpowered with -3 Morale, extra drone for each 5 pop, and growth penalty) other than starting with impact weapons. I'd spent a while building up an airforce of chaos gas needlejets (originally missile/fission, but upgrading is so easy when you have infinite wormcash), and gassed their entire population into oblivion in a few turns.
(http://i.imgur.com/b17rx.jpg?1) (http://i.imgur.com/b17rx.jpg?1)

Overall, really broken faction with high native. Not sure if it would work on low/mid, but +4 Planet and +50% Psi is just too much at the start, even with the major penalties (especially since you don't need green and the growth drop from that to keep +4). You don't need bases once the wormcatching cascade begins. May be possible to vaguely balance while maintaining the super-native feel with some combination of Morale/non-psi combat penalties, losing some of the Psi bonus, Planet maybe to +3, and reducing the fungus bonus. I'd like to play against an AI using this faction though, that could be quite a challenge.

Edit: My bases:
(http://i.imgur.com/E6rbh.jpg?1) (http://i.imgur.com/E6rbh.jpg?1)

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Yitzi on December 03, 2012, 05:32:38 PM

Yeah, that's a serious worm rush faction.  It might face a bit of trouble against a human player (especially the Spartans) in the early and midgame, though, as the human player could just build cheap units (with or without trance/empath) and rely on the industry and growth advantage to win.
In the late game, it becomes totally overpowered if it can grab the Manifold Harmonics.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on December 04, 2012, 01:48:29 AM

Just got thoroughly owned by the AI playing antimind (Battle Ogre plus a few super boosted worms before I had lasers, weeee), using a faction which seemed to have no bonuses or disadvantages, despite being meant to have some. I watched the AIs for a long time. They has some major issues. The freelancers initially looked like they could take on the antimind, but then they decided to build almost purely native life. -2 planet, -1 morale against +4 planet +50% Psi (and another native faction with +3 planet who was allied with antimind). Still they had such a huge production advantage that they lasted for a while, until the other factions raised the sea and sunk their bit of land, so no more nice terraforming. And my old faction (i'd got a sea colony pod out, and made a few bases before giving it to AI) made... so many IODs and Sealurks. SO many. Despite being in a terrible place to use them and having plenty of time to build. Bree were happily building on the other unconnected sea, eventually took the powergraph lead. Then Bree and Antimind started singularity nuking eachother. Those things are crazy.

Given how long my old faction was left alone.. I'd probably have been able to make it a major player, maybe even win (was pacted with the freelancers). Maybe I'll go back to that save and see if I can as a challenge someday.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on December 07, 2012, 07:09:14 AM

I love the AntiMind faction. :O As a kid they were one of the ones I'd have in every game and yes they tended to dominate very hard haha

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 09, 2012, 05:43:29 AM

The Anti-mind seems really cool as well.

In fact, the Antimind may make the cut. I am leaning towards including them in spot #3 for my next detailed AAR. Ouch... this is going to hurt. I may need to summon the powers of earthmicheal just to survive.

At least it is not the Supanoobs and The Scotsnoobs. Now that would be a cage match. But.. I would not want the play against them.. just watch.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on December 09, 2012, 09:58:51 AM

Yeah they need a bit of nerfing. Probably some morale penalties or something. In some ways my Betrayed faction is a more sane version of AntiMind, having a large PSI bonus, no PLANET, and not being allowed to pick up Green.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 10, 2012, 02:00:56 AM

I was too tempted and set up a tiny planet/abundant life to practice Miriam at least vs Stephanie and Oblivion with some other factions mixed in.

Yang owned pretty Oblivion pretty hard and made Steph a minor faction towards when I finally said enough of the foolishness.

Been having trouble DLing the NN factions. I think I am suffering the same problems as T_ras was a while back. See, I tether from a smartphone. Lately, on some larger DLs I have been getting currupted files and the DL being stopped before I can even finish. Who knows, i think the cell carriers have gotten a new weapo to use against us guys. Going to try again at a coffee house or may wait till I step off the train and go to my relative's house.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 10, 2012, 02:18:48 AM

Maybe I should divide the collection in two and post it as two .zips...

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 10, 2012, 02:32:09 AM

Quote from: BUncle on December 10, 2012, 02:18:48 AM

Maybe I should divide the collection in two and post it as two .zips...

Yeah.. The smaller ones, I do not seem to have a problem. But, both Foxfi (android wifi app) and STVP seem to be cutting out on those large downloads. Does not seem to affect streaming files like podcasts or youtube nor does it affect websites.

The Android tether modders will patch it eventually. But I have a feeling it will be a paid deal because one of the solutions is going through a proxy to get past the carriers.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 10, 2012, 02:46:58 AM

The problem could even be on our end - I had to temporarily change the size limit to upload it at all, and sisko then told me that shouldn't have worked. 

I'll look into the split upload tomorrow.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 11, 2012, 02:27:19 AM

Quote from: BUncle on December 10, 2012, 02:46:58 AM

The problem could even be on our end - I had to temporarily change the size limit to upload it at all, and sisko then told me that shouldn't have worked. 

I'll look into the split upload tomorrow.

I think it may be. I just tried DLing from the public library and a coffee house. No go.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 11, 2012, 03:25:52 AM

I should probably put up all the custom factions of mine I can turn up in a reasonable search, too.  That'll take at least another two. A lot would depend on whether I can find the .txt part of a great many I've done in collaboration.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 13, 2012, 06:40:53 PM

Finally got it. The train station wi fi of all places.

A quick question though after looking in the .txt files: am I going to have issues under SMAX with some of these if they do not have stuff like ALIENFACTIONTREATY and ALIENFACTIONTRUCE entries? Will folks running SMAC have trouble the other way around?

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 13, 2012, 07:04:44 PM

That is a very frequent shortcoming.  I don't think the lack of alien diplomacy dialog will be a problem unless aliens are encountered.  In fact, I know it won't.  -Going the other way, it won't come up and the game will ignore it.  I guess you ought to set up a test game with aliens and see what happens then...

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 14, 2012, 03:34:59 AM

@BU

I think you are correct.

@ete..

Saw the AI play Antimind. Yeah, powerful. But the antimind is a progenitor faction should be. BU's improved Borg and Antimind teamed up to nuke Kilk's Oblivion when I did an AI only test.

There are a couple of other prog factions in there, too.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Yitzi on December 14, 2012, 05:45:15 AM

Actually, the Antimind seems that it shouldn't be that hard to beat (assuming a human opponent for it) if you just spam 1/1 troops (with or without empath or trance, but as high a morale as you can manage) and don't let it get to the late game where fungus becomes overpowered with such huge bonuses (but don't attack too early because of that ogre).  240% combat effectiveness on attack and 150% on defense looks very nice, but when your troops cost 5-7 times as much as the enemy's, that's probably not going to be enough.
The only real problem with that might be because the Antimind can catch worms as well as building them, but (1) those worms will tend to be low- to mid-lifecycle, whereas conventional troops are fairly easy to get quite high, and (2) I've read that the more worms you have, the lower the chance of capture (and worms themselves are less likely to achieve a successful capture.)

My faction of choice for fighting the antimind, not using aliens or custom factions, would probably be the Hive.  Grab the Command Nexus (which you start with the tech for) and run Police State/Planned/{Wealth-or-Knowledge} while teching to Centauri Empathy and AMA (in addition to the usual ones), then switch to Fundie/Green/Power and go on the warpath.  Yang can run that combo while only paying 11 minerals or nutrients per row, and between the Command Nexus, Fundie, and Power, your troops will be a monolith away from Elite.  So run them through the monolith, and swarm the enemy with cheap troops (scout patrols from low-production bases, empath infantry or trance 1/2/2 speeders from higher-production bases, and empath speeders (or even 3-res trance troops once you grab that capability) from the highest-production bases.)  Make sure to send formers to clear fungus in order to give your troops the movement advantage and hurt the enemy's economy, and it should work fairly well.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on December 14, 2012, 06:09:49 PM

If you started with some distance, it'd certainly be beatable (you're right about the faction and timing, before fungus gets too good, but after there's been time to get a good set of bases for basic troop production). The penalties mean that unless it does massive damage early on, it's going to have some issues. The reason i got rolled was I started really close, and it swarmed me with infinite worms before I had much production available. Even basic worms are really tough with the faction boosts, and they never need to build them. Just catch, and they can catch enough to overpower any nearby opponents before they have time to prepare. At +4 you get more worms than even the gaians running green, and the more you have farming the fungus the faster your army grows.

Quite a few factions seem to have typos, missing dialog, or non-functional bonuses (the most recent one I played, one with the zak's daughter as leader, had I think 10 or 11 of the bonuses which were limited to 8, which was annoying). Will probably fix as much as possible along with the indexing project.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 14, 2012, 06:51:23 PM

Quote from: ete on December 14, 2012, 06:09:49 PM

If you started with some distance, it'd certainly be beatable (you're right about the faction and timing, before fungus gets too good, but after there's been time to get a good set of bases for basic troop production). The penalties mean that unless it does massive damage early on, it's going to have some issues. The reason i got rolled was I started really close, and it swarmed me with infinite worms before I had much production available. Even basic worms are really tough with the faction boosts, and they never need to build them. Just catch, and they can catch enough to overpower any nearby opponents before they have time to prepare. At +4 you get more worms than even the gaians running green, and the more you have farming the fungus the faster your army grows.

Quite a few factions seem to have typos, missing dialog, or non-functional bonuses (the most recent one I played, one with the zak's daughter as leader, had I think 10 or 11 of the bonuses which were limited to 8, which was annoying). Will probably fix as much as possible along with the indexing project.

Yeah, I think us at AC2 need to step up and make these factions cool and SMAX compliant. I am willing to help. No one wants to DL buggy crud.

Also, the way these things are DLed, it is really hard to know what you are getting unless you manually open up the .txt on every single faction. Want a custom prog? Need to look through all of them.

Some of our other DL factions at AC2 have spelling errors, too.

I will look through them later today and make a list of all the changes. Maybe even update them myself. Then, re-upload them in a form AC2 will not be embarrassed by.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 14, 2012, 06:52:42 PM

Yeah - there's a number of factions I worked on in the early days that I had to fix the .txt to even get them to run - and given how scant my interest and expertise is on that end, it's a pretty pitiful thing.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on December 14, 2012, 07:07:06 PM

lol... np, BU. You got back up.

List of NN Factions  PART 1.

AARD. Aardom Federation

^+1 RESEARCH : {Brilliant talents.}
^-2 POLICE: {freedom loving}
^+1 TALENT per 4 citizens:  {Well educated workers}
^free colony pod at start of game
^Impunity Eudiamonic
^Chose one tech as start
^Cannot use Police State Politics
^85% Techcost {Elite researchers from varied backgrounds}

No problems.


ACOL. Acolytes of the Flame

^+PLANET: {psychic connection to Planet}
^-RESEARCH: {clouded by magic theory}
^+MORALE: {believe themselves to be magically protected}
^-SUPPORT: {expensive, elaborate, and ornate equipment}
^+25% psi: {strengthening of mind}
^120% hurry costs: {involved rituals when building}
^one fewer population limit: {elaborate living conditions}


NEEDS ALIENFACTION entries!

ADVE. Adventurer's Club

^-1 PLANET: {Safaris and "battling the elements"}
^-1 POLICE: {independantly minded}
^-1 PROBE : {computer espionage considered "ungentlemanly"}
^+1 MORALE: {very confident}
^80% hurry costs: {always ready to adventure}
^rec commons at every base: {pubs, drawing rooms, conservatories}
^begins with 3 bonus unity rovers: {explorers    //  May not use Planned}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION ENTRIES!


AGRI. Agri-culture

^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry uses precious arable land}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION entries.


ANAR. Anarchists

^+1 GROWTH: {Lack of Social Planning}
^-3 EFFICIENCY: {Badly organized, if at all}
^+1 SUPPORT: {3 units free per base}
^-4 RESEARCH: {Not disciplined enough to learn what can be taken from others}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Skunkworks and Recreation Commons each base}
^FANATICS: {Enough said}
^HURRY 75%: {Excellent improvisation}
^TECHCOST 175%: {Atrocious education system}
^FREE UNIT: {Alien Artifact (Black Market)}
^{May not use Police State Politics.}
^{Receives HALF votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader}
^{May exceed HAB COMPLEX population requirements by 1}
^{Extra drone per 3 citizens, culture of aggression}

NEEDS ALIENFACTION ENTRIES.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 23, 2013, 11:47:08 AM

Currently having quite an interesting game with the Guardians of morality:

^+3 POLICE: {ironfisted rule}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Forced Labor}
^+1 SUPPORT: {dedication to war effort}
^-2 RESEARCH: {many subjects forbidden}
^-1 PROBE: {distrust computers}
^-2 GROWTH: {personal relationships controlled, many people escape or die trying}
^free genejack factory at each base: {may not use eudaimoniac // +25% attack {fanatic}}

Which forces a different playstyle to what I'm used to. The early support was cool, but I found the large growth+research penalty gave me nothing worthwhile to build for a very long time (was trying blind research). The map is much wider than it is tall, which i've found tends to make the game produce more land for some reason. So all the landmasses are linked up reasonably well, which helps the AI a lot and saves raising landbridges.

Other players are:

Bree
^Aquatic Alien faction
^+3 PLANET: {Fungal Sisterhood}
^+1 Nutrients & +2 Minerals in fungus squares {Fungal Farming}
^-2 Growth {Which does not fully compensate for their startling growth}
^Immunity to mind control {Unable to understand "bribery"}
^Mind Worms do double police duty: {Harmony with and reverence for native life}
^{May not use Free Market economies.}
^{Start the game with an Isle of the Deep}

These guys expand at an INSANE rate, as I've discovered in many other games. No terraforming needed, even right away fungus is enough to keep bases running, and once they start boosting fung resources they're nuts. I ran into them early on and luckily they offered peace (they are pacifist). They kind of sandwiched me into the top of the map away from all the other factions, but I ended up claiming enough territory. They are reluctant to trade much tech and have been top of the power chart for the entire game. They've got a lot of SPs (though I have more), and gave me all the commlinks once they got the empath guild. I contacted everyone and they all declared war on me except:

Freelancers
^-1 MORALE: {Mercenaries fighting other peoples wars}
^-2 PLANET: {No respect for the environment}
^+3 ECONOMY: {Contract earnings}
^+2 SUPPORT: {Excellent supply lines}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Research Hospital (for casualties) at each base.}
^{Headquarters at each base}
^60% HURRY COSTS: {Factories geared up for wartime production.}
^{May Not use Eudaimonic future society (military regime)}

goddamn broken factions. They're research has been by far the best in the game despite only holding onto a small empire, and they charge a lot for each tech (I bought it though, and stole some from the next faction, so I'm ahead). Impressively, they're being beaten back by a faction I've not used before (though they did put up a good fight and were trading bases for decades):

Bards of Chrion
^+2PLANET: {Know the songs of Planet}
^+1 TALENT: {Bards are talented individuals}
^+1 GROWTH: {Very romantic individuals}                                       
^{Immune to Industry minuses}
^{1 fungus nutrient}

Though they've actually got more bonuses than that looking at the text files:
TECH, Ecology, FACILITY, 3, SOCIAL, ++PLANET, SOCIAL, +TALENT, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, IMMUNITY, INDUSTRY, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1, DEFENSE, 125, TERRAFORM, 0, FREEPROTO, 0, WORMPOLICE, 0, PSI, 50, TALENT, 1, POPULATION, 1, TECH, 2,

Almost all their bases seem to be in golden age currently, and they killed three factions entirely (all the below ones), all of which had a reasonable empire. Plus they brought the Freelancers down to one land base and three sea ones. They're currently the main foe, and the target of the Bree/me/Freelancer alliance. They're second in the power graph, about halfway between me and the bree.

Dreams of Earth
^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry ruined Earths biosphere}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

They built a decent empire a long way from me and declared war early on. They were the second faction crushed by the bards.

Rangers of Chrion
^CENTAURI PRESERVE: {Free facility at each base}
^+3 PLANET: {Spiritual symbiosis with Chiron}
^-3 INDUSTRY: {Industry poisons Chiron}
^-3 RESEARCH: {Technology destroys Chiron}
^+2 MORALE: {The Rangers are fiercely passionate for their cause}
^-15% ENERGY INTEREST: {Abhorrence of Energy creating facilities}
^-3 COMMERCE: {Self sufficient populace}
^150% HURRY: {Poor Industrial facilities
{May NOT use FREE MARKET}
{2 Free SCOUTS}

Declared war on me for being at peace with the bree, they were the first faction crushed by the bards (though they did have a passable little empire, despite their heavy penalties). I freed them and they established a new base in the wilderness, but the bards hunted them down.

And the last faction is the Hive, since they tend to put up the best fight out of the original factions. They died very quickly after the Bard troops reached them.

(http://i.imgur.com/Zn9S9UX.jpg?1) (http://Currently having quite an interesting game with the Guardians of morality:

^+3 POLICE: {ironfisted rule}
^+1 INDUSTRY: {Forced Labor}
^+1 SUPPORT: {dedication to war effort}
^-2 RESEARCH: {many subjects forbidden}
^-1 PROBE: {distrust computers}
^-2 GROWTH: {personal relationships controlled, many people escape or die trying}
^free genejack factory at each base: {may not use eudaimoniac // +25% attack {fanatic}}

Which forces a different playstyle to what I'm used to. The early support was cool, but I found the large growth+research penalty gave me nothing worthwhile to build for a very long time (was trying blind research). The map is much wider than it is tall, which i've found tends to make the game produce more land for some reason. So all the landmasses are linked up reasonably well, which helps the AI a lot and saves raising landbridges.

Other players are:

Bree
^Aquatic Alien faction
^+3 PLANET: {Fungal Sisterhood}
^+1 Nutrients & +2 Minerals in fungus squares {Fungal Farming}
^-2 Growth {Which does not fully compensate for their startling growth}
^Immunity to mind control {Unable to understand "bribery"}
^Mind Worms do double police duty: {Harmony with and reverence for native life}
^{May not use Free Market economies.}
^{Start the game with an Isle of the Deep}

These guys expand at an INSANE rate, as I've discovered in many other games. No terraforming needed, even right away fungus is enough to keep bases running, and once they start boosting fung resources they're nuts. I ran into them early on and luckily they offered peace (they are pacifist). They kind of sandwiched me into the top of the map away from all the other factions, but I ended up claiming enough territory. They are reluctant to trade much tech and have been top of the power chart for the entire game. They've got a lot of SPs (though I have more), and gave me all the commlinks once they got the empath guild. I contacted everyone and they all declared war on me except:

Freelancers
^-1 MORALE: {Mercenaries fighting other peoples wars}
^-2 PLANET: {No respect for the environment}
^+3 ECONOMY: {Contract earnings}
^+2 SUPPORT: {Excellent supply lines}
^FREE FACILITIES: {Research Hospital (for casualties) at each base.}
^{Headquarters at each base}
^60% HURRY COSTS: {Factories geared up for wartime production.}
^{May Not use Eudaimonic future society (military regime)}

goddamn broken factions. They're research has been by far the best in the game despite only holding onto a small empire, and they charge a lot for each tech (I bought it though, and stole some from the next faction, so I'm ahead). Impressively, they're being beaten back by a faction I've not used before (though they did put up a good fight and were trading bases for decades):

Bards of Chrion
^+2PLANET: {Know the songs of Planet}
^+1 TALENT: {Bards are talented individuals}
^+1 GROWTH: {Very romantic individuals}                                       
^{Immune to Industry minuses}
^{1 fungus nutrient}

Though they've actually got more bonuses than that looking at the text files:
TECH, Ecology, FACILITY, 3, SOCIAL, ++PLANET, SOCIAL, +TALENT, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, IMMUNITY, INDUSTRY, FUNGNUTRIENT, 1, DEFENSE, 125, TERRAFORM, 0, FREEPROTO, 0, WORMPOLICE, 0, PSI, 50, TALENT, 1, POPULATION, 1, TECH, 2,

Almost all their bases seem to be in golden age currently, and they killed three factions entirely (all the below ones), all of which had a reasonable empire. Plus they brought the Freelancers down to one land base and three sea ones. They're currently the main foe, and the target of the Bree/me/Freelancer alliance. They're second in the power graph, about halfway between me and the bree.

Dreams of Earth
^-PLANET: {Large scale Terraforming ecologically disruptive}
^-INDUSTRY: {Industry ruined Earths biosphere}
^+2MORALE: {Fiercely protective of homelands}
^-2POLICE: {Independant and generally peaceful people}
^FREE FACILITY: {Hybrid Forest at each base due to terraforming skill}
^FREE UNITS: {2 free Terraformers}
^{Terraforming costs HALVED}

They built a decent empire a long way from me and declared war early on. They were the second faction crushed by the bards.

Rangers of Chrion
^CENTAURI PRESERVE: {Free facility at each base}
^+3 PLANET: {Spiritual symbiosis with Chiron}
^-3 INDUSTRY: {Industry poisons Chiron}
^-3 RESEARCH: {Technology destroys Chiron}
^+2 MORALE: {The Rangers are fiercely passionate for their cause}
^-15% ENERGY INTEREST: {Abhorrence of Energy creating facilities}
^-3 COMMERCE: {Self sufficient populace}
^150% HURRY: {Poor Industrial facilities
{May NOT use FREE MARKET}
{2 Free SCOUTS}

Declared war on me for being at peace with the bree, they were the first faction crushed by the bards (though they did have a passable little empire, despite their heavy penalties). I freed them and they established a new base in the wilderness, but the bards hunted them down.

And the last faction is the Hive, since they tend to put up the best fight out of the original factions. They died very quickly after the Bard troops reached them.

And finally, the map:
[url=http://i.imgur.com/Zn9S9UX.jpg?1)

If I'd got a good set of early saves I'd have probably done an AAR. First game for a while I've been actually behind significantly, though with my hybrid forests finishing up that'll soon change.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on January 23, 2013, 12:34:32 PM

If anything, sounds like you had fun! :D

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 02:07:37 PM

I think the most flavorful of the batch is the Antimind. Plus.. it is a prog faction to boot!

The antimind is sick. It can wipe the floor with Marr and Himilee. +4 planet means on a high native life huge map, it can flood far and wide every one without need to worry with terraforming or anything.

Even powerhouses like Yang have trouble with this monster.

I also noticed another Prog faction called the Manifold Seekers. I played as Zack with Yang, Sparta, the Caretakers, Usurpers, the Antimind, and these guys. Zack is about the only one that stands a chance. I tried Morgan and got my butt handed to me four times!

One game, Yang and I settled our differences to pact where we fought valliantly for the survival of the human race against hordes of progies!

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 02:11:23 PM

Hmm... have yall noticed any more Prog factions? I would like a game where there are six unique vs myself. I would have to go with Zack, Santiago, Sven, or Miriam just to survive.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 23, 2013, 02:56:59 PM

Still playing, and still behind on the power graph (though catching up! marginally ahead of Bards now, but some way behind the Bree).

Anyway, the Bree are aliens, so I'm going to have to fight them at some point. My current plan is to build a settlement off in the wilderness and gift it to the Freelancers when they're submissive and the Bards are out of the picture, and techfarm off them to compensate for my -2 research.

I've now freed Yang once, and both the other two eliminated factions twice. The bards keep killing them. I'm having trouble breaking Bard bases because of Psy combat (though I'm near their HQ, so freeing leaders is easy), -3 Planet Vs +2 Planet with a 50% Psy boost is hard to overcome, and dropping FM would remove about 70% of my income/teching speed. Copters should definitely not be so cheap.

Also, I have most of the SPs because my production is insane, but low research before I set up FM meant that I did not have the tech to get a few cool SPs. And it's interesting how FM works with this faction, switching to FM is not so easy because of the GJ factories, but you can go to war with FM because of the Police bonus (unless you're fighting a Native faction, which I am..).

And yea, the Antimind is cool, but there's tonnes of great ideas here. Them being horribly broken just makes games more challenging, which is no bad thing :). I'd definitely favor having two versions of each faction available for download, one which is balanced with respect to the originals and one designed to give human players a hard time (basically horrifically broken). Maybe even a weaker than balanced version for a few factions.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 03:11:26 PM

Now, for the Bree, I am thinking there are two versions.

Research indicates Maniac made the Bree and put them on the Network Node ages ago... but I remember reading that there was a superior version of the Bree that our own Buster's Uncle worked on and improved on.

I need to look into that.

Did not know the Bree were a prog faction, too. It is hard to know exactly what you are getting with the NN grab bag.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 23, 2013, 03:14:05 PM

I didn't do much for the Bree, and I don't think Maniac created them - I'm sure he tweaked the .txt somewhat for SMAniaC, though.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 03:23:38 PM

Quote from: BUncle on January 23, 2013, 03:14:05 PM

I didn't do much for the Bree, and I don't think Maniac created them - I'm sure he tweaked the .txt somewhat for SMAniaC, though.

Good to know... some of these NN factions have history to them and a place. We are cranking them up so we can catalogue them. That way if someone says... hmm, I want such and such for a game, they (and I) will know what we are getting.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 23, 2013, 03:27:08 PM

...I do think I improved the graphic, mind you...

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 23, 2013, 05:06:53 PM

Taken the lead now by dropping out of FM to improve Planet rating for psy, then really stomping with Cybernetic for +4 Planet and the Neural Amplifier. The Bards still have a large empire and a lot of troops, but they're losing both fast. Freelancers are being angry, and Hive was respawned on a tiny (five square) island which was entirely fungus, so I made them a new base from a 'copter pod on a larger landmass connected to the Bree's main area. Bree has over 100 transports, none of them clean. It'd be nice to have that fixed in SMAX too. I'll probably beat them mostly because of the 100+ minerals a turn wasted on supporting that fleet of useless transports (and the fact their research has slowed massively, not entirely sure why).

I was tempted to let the Bree get the Cloning Vats just to see how fast they would grow, but decided against it. This game has been long enough already, no need to massively extend it.

And yea, it's hard to locate factions in a specific class and check what they are. If sisko sets up the things I need on wiki to do it or gives me access, it'll get a lot easier (a large part of why I want to do that project is to use it myself).

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Yitzi on January 23, 2013, 05:55:28 PM

Quote from: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 02:11:23 PM

Hmm... have yall noticed any more Prog factions?

I designed the ideology and mechanics for two more myself, here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2596.0).

Keep in mind that ideologically, each Progenitor faction needs to have a different (and different enough to go to war over) opinion about how to deal with Planet.  So Usurpers say "force Transcendence, as per the original plan", Caretakers say "quarantine, it's too dangerous"; of my two, the Shepherds say "achieve Transcendence with the Planetmind's cooperation" (similarly to how humans win by Transcendence), and the Destroyers say "destroy it all; end the experiment".  So if you want to make more, think about how they responded to Tau Ceti (in which another planet achieved Flowering and wrecked the surrounding area), and work from there.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 09:57:59 PM

Quote from: Yitzi on January 23, 2013, 05:55:28 PM

Quote from: Green1 on January 23, 2013, 02:11:23 PM

Hmm... have yall noticed any more Prog factions?

I designed the ideology and mechanics for two more myself, here (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2596.0).

Keep in mind that ideologically, each Progenitor faction needs to have a different (and different enough to go to war over) opinion about how to deal with Planet.  So Usurpers say "force Transcendence, as per the original plan", Caretakers say "quarantine, it's too dangerous"; of my two, the Shepherds say "achieve Transcendence with the Planetmind's cooperation" (similarly to how humans win by Transcendence), and the Destroyers say "destroy it all; end the experiment".  So if you want to make more, think about how they responded to Tau Ceti (in which another planet achieved Flowering and wrecked the surrounding area), and work from there.

Yeah...

If I go custom factions I tend to prefer the ones that at least attempt to fit in storywise as opposed to some of these "joke" factions or "fan" factions.

I also want them with unique playstyles. There are too many custom factions that seem to be copy/paste of existing ones and are bland.

I guess at some point, I will have to make one myself. All the cool kids do it at some point. But, I get caught up so much in playing various games that I lose my motivation to actually start being creative and contribute sometimes.

I should do something about that.

Speaking of which, in an ancient GameFAQs on SMAX, I heard reference to a "Alien Civil War" custom faction pack. In other words.. I think we are missing some...

from Æther SPOON, gameFAQ 2002:

Quote

/   Part 03:                              Networknode.org Custom Factions    |
*******************************************************************************
*   NOTE:  All of these custom factions listed are from the faction packs at  *
*    http://www.networknode.org (http://www.networknode.org).  If you wish for me to update my FAQ with a  *
*    faction pack of your own, please read Part 10 for infomation on          *
*    contacting me.                                                           *
*    Zeta Set - Progenitor Civil War Factions                                 *
*           a.......................................... Terran Federation     *
*           b................................................. Aggressors     *
*           c................................................. Dominators     *
*           d.................................................. Predators     *
*           e................................................. Developers     *
*           f................................................. Preservers     *
*           g................................................ Researchers     *
*    Iota Set - WaterWorld Factions                                           *
*           h..................................... Bringers of the Deluge     *
*           i........................................... Full Fathom Five     *
*           j......................................... Legion of Aquarius     *
*           k......................... Oceans Extraterritorial Commission     *
*           l........................................ The Hydra Institute     *
*           m............................................ The Multimakers     *
*           n............................................ The Triton Sect     *
*    Lambda Set - Second Mission Factions                                     *
*           o.......................................... The Briach Estate     *
*           p................................................... CerraGen     *
*           q............................................. Delgusia, Inc.     *
*           r................................................. Jorgenstad     *
*           s................................................... Obrioshi     *
*           t.................................. The Rensallir Corporation     *
*           u................................................. Serabollio     *
*                                                                             *
*  Custom Faction notes:                                                      *
*   Zeta Set:                                                                 *
*    After trying all three of the 'bundled' faction packs on                 *
*     networknode.org, I can honestly tell you that this one is my least      *
*     favorite.  Why?  Not as much depth to it...  the other two actually had *
*     more of a storyline to it, whereas in PCW only one faction (Terran Fed) *
*     has anything of a storyline in it.  The Progenitors all are copies!     *
*   Iota Set:                                                                 *
*    A nice faction pack with story.  Use the map that was included with the  *
*     faction though...  or a 70-90% water random map.  Either work.          *
*   Lambda Set:                                                               *
*    This has got to be one of the most balanced faction packs                *
*     I have ever seen.  I even have a somewhat more challanging time when    *
*     playing as any of these factions!  On top of it, it has a neat story to *
*     it, as well as a fan fiction on networknode.org (albiet a bit short) on *
*     Second Mission...  and I love storyline!  :)                            *
*                                                   

He goes on to list these and review them. For the TLDR:  http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/198636-sid-meiers-alien-crossfire/faqs/12572 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/198636-sid-meiers-alien-crossfire/faqs/12572)

did we miss some factions?

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on January 23, 2013, 11:49:53 PM

I haven't seen any of those myself.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 24, 2013, 12:01:25 AM

Yea, I'm not seeing those in the downloads. The web archive of network node has more, click downloads: http://web.archive.org/web/20060222192258/http://www.networknode.org/indexflash.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20060222192258/http://www.networknode.org/indexflash.html)

It seems we're missing all of the faction sets (Aldebaran 2, return to earth, second mission, progenitor civil war, and waterworld). Perhaps one of the older players here may be able to contact a few people who may still have the files lurking on their computers? Or maybe they're findable with some creative googling, I found some possibles for Aldebaran 2.

I'm sending out an email to all of the people listed on contacts on the slim hope that one of them uses the same email and has a set of downloads handy.

Edit: Sent the following message to all four contacts, two failed to send:

Quote

Hello, I'm ete from http://alphacentauri2.info/, (http://alphacentauri2.info/,) where we're building a home for those who still love SMAC/X. We've tracked down most of the factions which you used to host on the network node, but have not been able to find a download for your faction sets (return to earth, second mission, progenitor civil war, and waterworld), faction templates, or ModMan 1.05. I know it's a long shot, but if any of you happen to have a copy of any of these or know where to get them (or even contact details for others who may still have them) it would help us greatly with the project to build a wiki with a searchable/categorised database of as many custom factions as we can find.

~ete

edit2: Also, we may not have all the other factions. Comparing lists, we're missing:
Generic Faction
thunderbirds
Virtucon

Also, I realised we do actually have return to earth.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 24, 2013, 02:50:02 AM

Back to the game, I provoked the Freelancers into war since I wanted to make them surrender before the battle against Bree, but Bree decided I was getting too strong and went right from pact to vendetta. I've gone exponential in the powerchart thanks to the cloning vats and mass satellite production and finished the tech tree, but my army is actually pretty small and even the huge technical advantages I have are negated by Bree's native focus. And they've got a lot of angles to attack me from, plus Planet is starting to get angry with my eco damage and spawning stacks of worms 15+ deep, annoying since I had skimped on defenses in my back bases (just had one clean/trance scout at most). Turning a lot of my empire to centuri preserves to mitigate this, more seal level rise would be hard to deal with (had two 333 m ones in five years).

Bards are forced back to a few bases, most should die soon. FLs will too once I have more than three ships.

Should be easy if I want to transcend, but that seems like a cheap way out at this point.

Map currently
(http://i.imgur.com/aMMpIJ8.png?1) (http://i.imgur.com/aMMpIJ8.png?1)

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 24, 2013, 07:00:54 PM

You know the stage in the game where it takes an hour and a half to play five turns? I'm there. Damn Bree and their huge number of bases, and so many units (almost all transports and IoDs >_>). I'm killing ~8 bases a turn, plus gassing a few smaller ones. Still taking forever. Have 30+ of every satellite, but at least the telepathic matrix is up so I don't have to deal with riots any more. Am at 100% econ, getting about 5000 credits a turn, and several of my bases are producing 200+ minerals a turn (without eco damage! yay for centuri preserves.), while the rest are generally 50+. Still having sea rise problems, have used solar shade twice but got two 333 m rises and a 666 m rise, and this planet has a LOT of low lying land, so looks like it'll be mostly ocean very shortly. Ah well, 'copter+gravship won't care.

Considering buying the ascent to transcendence, can probably afford it in a couple of turns.

PS: I love the water maze on this map. So fun, kind of wish I'd got to play in it earlier, but Bree was too tough really early on.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 24, 2013, 07:08:47 PM

Quote from: ete on January 24, 2013, 07:00:54 PM

You know the stage in the game where it takes an hour and a half to play five turns? I'm there. Damn Bree and their huge number of bases, and so many units (almost all transports and IoDs >_>). I'm killing ~8 bases a turn, plus gassing a few smaller ones. Still taking forever. Have 30+ of every satellite, but at least the telepathic matrix is up so I don't have to deal with riots any more. Am at 100% econ, getting about 5000 credits a turn, and several of my bases are producing 200+ minerals a turn (without eco damage! yay for centuri preserves.), while the rest are generally 50+. Still having sea rise problems, have used solar shade twice but got two 333 m rises and a 666 m rise, and this planet has a LOT of low lying land, so looks like it'll be mostly ocean very shortly. Ah well, 'copter+gravship won't care.

Considering buying the ascent to transcendence, can probably afford it in a couple of turns.

PS: I love the water maze on this map. So fun, kind of wish I'd got to play in it earlier, but Bree was too tough really early on.

Do not beat yourself up about it.

I think the non-conquest victories are put into Civ type games to avoid mindless grinding.

and, yes, that is a pretty original looking map. Occasionally, the random map algorithms come up with some cool stuff. It is more than I can say for some of the other random map algorithms for some of the other classic games of that day.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: ete on January 24, 2013, 07:11:10 PM

Yea, glad they had ways out. Usually I just force through a diplomatic victory, but against aliens that fails.

And yea, I think I can reproduce this kind of map though. The trick seems to be using custom size and making the map significantly wider than it is high.

Edit: Okay, turns out I'd broken their back when I last stopped. Took or gassed almost their entire empire in one turn. weeeeee. This is why 'copters exist, so won games v AI are not endless.

Edit2: It's over, infinite numbers of psy units is no match for about 80 bases which mostly produce an empath singularity R-Bolt 'copter each turn, backed by +5 Planet and the neural amp.

(http://i.imgur.com/zFgPgUV.jpg)

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Kilkakon on January 25, 2013, 12:28:21 AM

Well done. :O Sounds like they took some killing! Who would have thought naked alien ladies would be so tough.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Green1 on January 25, 2013, 12:33:16 AM

Any decent Prog faction should be :)

I remember one guy did an AAR where he had his own sweet custom faction on youtube. He stopped making the video after he started getting STOMPED by Marr.

Well... his fault.. he DID raise land to get to Marr.

Title: Re: ete plays around with network node factions
Post by: Yitzi on January 25, 2013, 02:04:18 AM

Quote from: Green1 on January 25, 2013, 12:33:16 AM

Any decent Prog faction should be :)

Definitely.  All that needs fixing (in MP) is making sure that human factions respond by ganging up on them instead of by riding their coattails to a cooperative victory.