Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Petek on November 19, 2012, 01:44:53 PM

Title: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Petek on November 19, 2012, 01:44:53 PM
SMAX introduced a new special ability, Algorithmic Enhancement, for Probe Teams. This ability allows probes to defeat the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm SP. Problem is, the AI never builds probes with this ability. I decided to design a probe with this ability that the AI would build. I added the following line to the #UNITS section of Alphax.txt:

Code: [Select]
James Bond,             Speeder,  Probe Team,   Scout,     11, 1, 0, Algor,   -1, 10000000000000000000000000000
(Yes, the new unit is named James Bond.) This unit becomes available upon the discovery of Pre-Sentient Algorithms, which I chose because that's when the HSA can be built. I set the cost to 1 to encourage the AI to build this unit in favor of regular Probe Teams.

Using the Scenario Editor, I started a game and gave all factions Planetary Networks (for regular probes) and PSA (for the James Bond unit). After turning over control of the game to the AI, I observed that several factions built lots of James Bonds. I also gave a faction the HSA SP and could probe that faction's bases, proving that the Algorithmic Enhancement ability actually works.

Any comments? Is the unit cost too low? If so, is there any other way to encourage the AI to build the new unit?
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Impaler on November 20, 2012, 12:52:17 AM
Good idea, I'd recommend some more follow up testing in which you let the AI reach the appropriate tech on its own (just put a weight on the enter key for a half hour) to confirm it will be built under real circumstances.

Also I'd recommend going to automatic cost as well, it shouldn't be very expensive.  If you feel its too cheap then I think the correct thing to do is raise the cost of the Enhancement itself so its more expensive for both human and AI.
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Yitzi on November 20, 2012, 01:40:57 AM
Keep in mind that if you do that, it will reduce the cost for building it for human players as well, which may not be desirable.
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Petek on November 20, 2012, 09:43:38 AM
Quote from: Impaler on November 20, 2012, 12:52:17 AM
Good idea, I'd recommend some more follow up testing in which you let the AI reach the appropriate tech on its own (just put a weight on the enter key for a half hour) to confirm it will be built under real circumstances.

Also I'd recommend going to automatic cost as well, it shouldn't be very expensive.  If you feel its too cheap then I think the correct thing to do is raise the cost of the Enhancement itself so its more expensive for both human and AI.
I ran a simulation as you suggested. The AI does build James Bonds, although not as frequently as in my initial test. I suppose that's because they have more units to build at that point. Thinking about it further, I'm not so concerned about the cost of the unit. If I set the cost to auto or make some other change, it will become more expensive than a vanilla Probe Team. In that case, I'm pretty sure that the AI will then build the cheaper unit.

Quote
Keep in mind that if you do that, it will reduce the cost for building it for human players as well, which may not be desirable.

True, but in my games I forgo building units like James Bond, which are created only to enhance or help the AI. The #UNITS section of my Alphax.txt is heavily modded to add approx. two dozen custom units (designed by Darsnan) that serve such a purpose. I don't build any of these myself. Of course, nothing prevents me from designing units similar to, for example, James Bond. They then have the standard cost.
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Impaler on November 20, 2012, 10:28:11 AM
I'd be interested in seeing those units if you can post that section of your Alpha.txt

Personally I don't belive in giving the A.I. abnormally cheap designs and refraining from building them myself (That's what difficulty levels are for as they give Industry and Growth bonuses to the A.I.).  I do approve of simply putting good logical designs in so the burden of good unit design is lifted them them (and me as well).
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Petek on November 20, 2012, 10:57:39 AM
As requested:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Impaler on November 20, 2012, 11:42:00 AM
Thx Petek, I was just playing around with redesigned units myself and had the idea of making Colony Pods Clean units because I notice the A.I. senselessly bleeding away minerals by playing ring-around-the-mind-worm with with a half dozen Pods at a time clearly in some kind of bugged base-placement algorithm. 

I think a Clean Pod is reasonable when it's got all the resources to start a base.  Human players generally plant their bases as fast and efficiently as possible so as to waste as little time as possible.  While the A.I. will still be wasting valuable time this will at least reduce mineral waste.

I set the cost of the new Clean Pod manual so it's the same as a normal Pod.  I'm also looking to set the Colony weapon to Disable so that only this type of pod and a late game sea-pod will be available.  Will need to see what the A.I. dose when trapped on an island though.
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Yitzi on November 20, 2012, 11:55:44 AM
Quote from: Petek on November 20, 2012, 09:43:38 AM
Of course, nothing prevents me from designing units similar to, for example, James Bond. They then have the standard cost.

Actually, I think that if they're the exact same configuration as the predesigned unit, they use the predesigned cost.  (The unit workshop might show the standard cost, but I think that the actual number of mineral rows is the predesigned one.)
Title: Re: Predesigned "Super" Probe
Post by: Kilkakon on November 22, 2012, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Impaler on November 20, 2012, 11:42:00 AM
Thx Petek, I was just playing around with redesigned units myself and had the idea of making Colony Pods Clean units because I notice the A.I. senselessly bleeding away minerals by playing ring-around-the-mind-worm with with a half dozen Pods at a time clearly in some kind of bugged base-placement algorithm. 

I think a Clean Pod is reasonable when it's got all the resources to start a base.  Human players generally plant their bases as fast and efficiently as possible so as to waste as little time as possible.  While the A.I. will still be wasting valuable time this will at least reduce mineral waste.

I set the cost of the new Clean Pod manual so it's the same as a normal Pod.  I'm also looking to set the Colony weapon to Disable so that only this type of pod and a late game sea-pod will be available.  Will need to see what the A.I. dose when trapped on an island though.
Nice work there. I like the idea of clean pods... I might use that, same for transports. LE Pirate AI once had a crazy day when it decided "I WANT EVERY SINGLE OCEAN SQUARE ON THE MAP TO HAVE A TRANSPORT ON IT". True story.

I've also seen an AI which got to start on a 1x1 island with no transport...
Templates: 1: Printpage (default).
Sub templates: 4: init, print_above, main, print_below.
Language files: 4: index+Modifications.english (default), TopicRating/.english (default), PortaMx/PortaMx.english (default), OharaYTEmbed.english (default).
Style sheets: 0: .
Files included: 31 - 840KB. (show)
Queries used: 14.

[Show Queries]