Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Rymdolov on November 07, 2012, 05:49:13 PM

Title: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 07, 2012, 05:49:13 PM

I started a game just to playtest some of the cool custom facs from the Network Node file (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=102) (which can be found in the Downloads section on this site) as well as some other ones. The facs included in the game were:

Agrians (#agri)
Anarchists (#anarchy)
The Syndicate (#syndct)
The Bree (#bree)
The Feminine Union (#union) (I found it at BUncle's website (http://alphacentauri2.info/My%20Custom%20Factions/Custom%20Factions.htm))
The Nomads (#nomads)
The Free Company (#freecomp)  (ariete's custom fac)

I was playing as the Agrians, which was nice. The difficulty of handling -2 POLICE was out-weighed by a hybrid forest at each base. (Forests! Forests everywhere!)

The Feminine Union, led by Britney Spears (!), seemed terribly over-powered and was completely dominant from very early in the game. This is not surprising, considering the fac:s stats:

Quote

^+2 GROWTH:   {Males fall before our perfection}
^-3 PLANET: {Lack of Respect for Others}
^+3 RESEARCH:  {Creating perfect females}
^Perfect Females: {Free BIOLOGY LAB at each base}
^Female Conservativeness: {Free ENERGY BANK at every base}
^Emphasis on Reserach: {Free NETWORK NODE at each base}
^{May not use Thought Control Policies}
^IMMUNE TO ILL EFFECTS OF POWER SOCIAL CHOICE

The Anarchists is a fun faction, but it suffers from the opposite problem. At -3 EFFICIENCY, -4 RESEARCH and 175% tech cost, they are basically unable to get anywhere at all. I tried playing as them and the message 149 years to the next breakthrough was not encouraging... To be playable the RESEARCH stat needs to be -2 and the tech cost normal. At the very least.

The Bree looked over-powered, too, but it turned out that this had more to do with having a good start. Being the only aquatic fac is always an advantage during the early game, I guess.

The other facs seemed pretty well-balanced, though The Syndicate worked a little better than the others.

Anyway, there are a lot of fun custom facs out there. I'm tempted to go through them all and do some proof-reading. Also, a lot of them need to be prepared for SMAX (by adding truce and treaty texts for alien facs). Changing stats to make them playable could be a community project.

Any thoughts on this?

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 07, 2012, 05:52:38 PM

I think it's a good idea. 

I always knew the Union was ridiculously overpowered; every time I see ec interest, the faction ends up richer than god 25 turns in.  Same with the Mindworms with Minds and the Texas faction.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 07, 2012, 06:09:53 PM

Quote from: BUncle on November 07, 2012, 05:52:38 PM

I always knew the Union was ridiculously overpowered; every time I see ec interest, the faction ends up richer than god 25 turns in.  Same with the Mindworms with Minds and the Texas faction.

I thought as much. :D

It might be fun to play a game with only very powerful facs some day.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 07, 2012, 06:24:53 PM

A far as that goes, I posted two training wheels deliberately overpowered factions (for absolute newbs to AC who are feeling overwhelmed while they learn) in Downloads not long ago.  Name says they'd have to be toned down to play against - especially the ScotsN00bs.  The SupahNewbs aren't as ridiculous, but late last year, Buster's Aunt easily won her first SMAC game playing them.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Yitzi on November 07, 2012, 07:04:23 PM

The real problem with the Anarchists is that their favored playstyle is the same as the Believers (probe to tech equality, use a Support bonus and attack bonus to overwhelm the enemy), and the Believers do it better.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: ariete on November 11, 2012, 09:31:30 PM

hey rymdolov i'm working on graphics of 2 alien facs (the project i'm completing, but just graphically for txts i need a hand ... or two) ... they get out more horrific than the caratake and usurpers. you test those facs because you've thinked in a game of the month?? why you don't help me in txts??

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: ariete on November 11, 2012, 09:34:34 PM

i've played with my 7 facs proofs in this weekend, it appears all balanced ...

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Kilkakon on November 12, 2012, 12:22:41 PM

Hey, sounds good. :) Good to see somebody enjoying the custom factions around here. :D

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 23, 2012, 10:46:57 AM

Quote from: ariete on November 11, 2012, 09:31:30 PM

why you don't help me in txts??

Sure, just tell me what you have got so far (bonuses and stuff) and I'll be happy to have a look at .txt.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 23, 2012, 11:05:34 AM

I started a new game with the following facs:

Agrians (#agri)
Anarchists (#anarchy)
The Syndicate (#syndct)
The Bree (#bree)
The Androgynous Community (#androgyn)
The Nomads (#nomads)
The Free Company (#freecomp)  (ariete's custom fac)

This time I had changed the Anarchist RESEARCH to -2 and changed their tech cost to normal, in order to make the fac playable for the AI (in the first game they hadn't made it out of their starting base at a time when I was bulding satellites...). This was a marked improvement. The Anarchists were now a normal faction.

It turned out that the Agrians are overpowered, as well, at least if played by a human player. A free hybrid forest at each base means that you never have to worry about nutrition as long as you have a former around and of course you also get a lot of minerals and energy. A free tree farm might be a more reasonable bonus (they don't give you extra nutrition from forests, right?).

What's positive is that ariete's faction, The Free Company, was played well by the AI, not too weak, not too strong. Not surprisingly, the AI played it kind of like the Spartans.

The other factions seemed balanced as well, though it's hard to tell from this little testing (done by me, as well...). The Bree was the strongest faction, but this might have more to do with getting to grow in peace out on the oceans than anything else. Throw in the Pirates and the Bree might have some competition.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Kilkakon on November 23, 2012, 11:39:54 AM

Tree Forests and Hybrid Forests are the same, just Hybrid Forests are more expensive.

Yeah Kelp means the Bree grow like crazy being by themselves. It might be interesting if both alien factions were seaborne. :O

Glad that the Anarachists worked out. I'm actually planning to remake their bases soon in SMAC style for my Betrayed faction (with a green hue but I'll probably make a red one for the original guys as well) so that could be cool. :)

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 23, 2012, 11:01:00 PM

Quote from: Kilkakon on November 23, 2012, 11:39:54 AM

Tree Forests and Hybrid Forests are the same, just Hybrid Forests are more expensive.

I wasn't sure about this, so I checked it out and it seems that Tree Farms add +1 to NUT, while Hybrid Forests add +1 NUT and +1 EN.

This would mean

Forest square witout facilities: 1 NUT 2 MIN 1 EN

Forest square with only Tree Farm: 2 NUT 2 MIN 1 EN

Forest square with only Hybrid Forest 2 NUT 2 MIN 2 EN

Forest square with both: 3 NUT 2 MIN 2 EN

So for my purposes (lots of nutrients) you are right that it doesn't matter if there are free TFs or HFs. However, only free Tree Farms would at least mean less of an energy boost.

Quote

Glad that the Anarachists worked out. I'm actually planning to remake their bases soon in SMAC style for my Betrayed faction (with a green hue but I'll probably make a red one for the original guys as well) so that could be cool. :)

That sounds very cool indeed! :)

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Kilkakon on November 25, 2012, 08:48:23 AM

I stand corrected. :D Tree Farms are still a crazy good facility to be giving away anyhow... I ultimately removed the one that had such a power from LE (giving the replacement PSI Gates instead, go me for balance, haha)

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on November 25, 2012, 11:23:38 AM

Quote from: Kilkakon on November 25, 2012, 08:48:23 AM

Tree Farms are still a crazy good facility to be giving away anyhow...

I agree. The main advantage of getting Tree Farms or Hybrid Forests from the start is that you can go for forests right away without worrying about slowing down growth from lack of nutrients and the nutrient bonus is the same for both, so... I'm repeating myself. Anyway, they could be ok for a faction with heavy GROWTH (and perhaps INDUSTRY) penalties.

Fre psi gates, huh? Sounds interesting... Like I said, I will have to play LE some day. For now I'm trying to survive a game playing as the new, improved Anarchists. It's going allright, but the heavy penalties mean that you have to get on without formers for a while and then with nothing but formers for quite some time.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Yitzi on November 25, 2012, 01:22:18 PM

Quote from: Rymdolov on November 25, 2012, 11:23:38 AM

Quote from: Kilkakon on November 25, 2012, 08:48:23 AM

Tree Farms are still a crazy good facility to be giving away anyhow...

I agree. The main advantage of getting Tree Farms or Hybrid Forests from the start is that you can go for forests right away without worrying about slowing down growth from lack of nutrients and the nutrient bonus is the same for both

The free equivalent of an energy bank, plus more efficient psych use, doesn't hurt either.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: ariete on November 25, 2012, 03:19:55 PM

Quote from: Rymdolov on November 23, 2012, 11:05:34 AM

The Free Company, was played well by the AI, not too weak, not too strong.

i've always try to make my custom factions with that philosophy, to not advantage more one fac than one other. this is to get more competitive the playgame.

Quote from: Rymdolov on November 23, 2012, 11:05:34 AM

Not surprisingly, the AI played it kind of like the Spartans.

 ;lol all my custom facs are sons of Sparta


next time i'm going to connect i send you the txts, from which you can deduce the main line concept of the 5 faction already ''made''. i think is better in this way than i try to explain (a try is on my thread where are posted graphics too).
For aliens i'm not yet convinced about what i push for now so i haven't publish something yet ... and in this period i'm also taken in other thingz

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Kilkakon on November 26, 2012, 02:03:30 PM

Quote from: Rymdolov on November 25, 2012, 11:23:38 AM

Fre psi gates, huh? Sounds interesting... Like I said, I will have to play LE some day. For now I'm trying to survive a game playing as the new, improved Anarchists. It's going allright, but the heavy penalties mean that you have to get on without formers for a while and then with nothing but formers for quite some time.

Yeah it is interesting to see how they go. Coping? I suppose you can have a few Scout Patrols for base defence to start things off. How do the advantages help?

And yes, I am quite eager to have somebody enjoy my game. :)

Quote from: ariete on November 25, 2012, 03:19:55 PM

;lol all my custom facs are sons of Sparta

Nice Ariete. :P So you think they are a good idea, Sparta-like factions?

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Rymdolov on December 01, 2012, 01:24:02 PM

Quote from: Kilkakon on November 26, 2012, 02:03:30 PM

Yeah it is interesting to see how they go. Coping? I suppose you can have a few Scout Patrols for base defence to start things off. How do the advantages help?

Well, I also thought I'd play on a non-ocean map, and the one I had turned out to also be extremely large. So test-wise the set-up isn't ideal. The idea was just to have some fun, mind.

Anyway, the Anarchist support bonus actually helps a lot. What you need to do is go for getting formers as soon as possible, whether you play blind research or not. Then you can have one defence unit and two formers at each base with no mineral penalty. At that point I started terraforming like crazy, to compensate for the -3 EFF. It actually went quite well. With a huge number of size 1 bases and twice the number of formers I managed to get something of an income and shorten the time span between new techs. If you can stay alive long enough to get Democratic, Green or (preferably) Knowledge to compensate for you weaknesses I think you're set.

This wouldn't work quite as well on a small map with competitors close by, I guess. Maybe you would rather have to use the fanatic bonus to conquer your neighbours, which, however, might be hard without technology. Closer neighbours mean that you can start trading technology earlier, though.

The rush bonus is very nice to have, especially when you have an unprotected base threatened by mind worms. It compensates to some extent for the vulnerability of the faction during the early game.

I played on Thinker, but I think the fac would work well on Transcend as well.

Title: Re: Playtesting a couple of custom facs
Post by: Kilkakon on December 01, 2012, 03:52:50 PM

Well I hope you are enjoying the experience. :) Sounds like a nice, different playstyle than usual!