Post by: sisko on October 31, 2012, 08:34:01 PM
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=417) (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?spage=gotm1211)
(click on the image for the GotM page)
Post by: sisko on October 31, 2012, 08:36:34 PM
After the tragic death of Ahto Ilmar, ex-Colonial Marines Officer of Unity and leader of the Nomad faction since Planetfall, you, Steinar Vog, as his second-in-command and newly-appointed Companion, finally have the means to achieve your goals.
The scenario starts in MY.2181 and your faction is a well-established one. The Nomads have built the Virtual World and explored part of the world map while building some infrastructure. Contact was made with the Morganites and the Nomads have started conducting business together with them. Everything was in place for a long prosperous peace period, but this is set to change shortly.
Your mission:
All you will have to do is let yourself be driven by your nomadic inner nature. Steinar, invading the lands of the other six factions is what you were secretly aiming to do for so long. This is your moment! The time has arrived!
Reaching a Conquest Victory is the only way to finish this scenario. Still, this must be done in a pure nomad way: you are not allowed to build additional colony pods. If you need more bases, you will have to conquer them...
Directions:
1) Download the zip file and place it into your main game directory. Usually this is: C:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
2) Unzip it there.
3) Start up SMAC (not SMAX), then select "Scenario", "Play Scenario", and then go to the subdirectory "1211NomadsGotM" and choose the scenario.
4) The game will automatically load with the Nomads faction.
Restrictions:
No additional bases can be built (you're starting with 5 bases). Even though you have the possibility to build colony pods, doing so will invalidate your submission.
*Notes:
You can check at any time the objectives using the '=' key.
The scenario ends when you get the 'Mission completed' popup. Please save before taking the last base!
Don't forget to inform us on the moves needed to complete the mission (if any).
The rules of the 2012 GotM Competition can be found here: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?spage=gotm (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?spage=gotm)
Download link
Transcend difficulty level: http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=106 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=106)
Image list — 20 images from one album
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Post by: sisko on November 01, 2012, 04:11:14 PM
Librarian and maybe Citizen (if requested) are on the way.
Good luck everybody!
Post by: lorddragonhat on November 02, 2012, 03:44:52 AM
Post by: t_ras on November 02, 2012, 01:31:53 PM
What it sure ly is, is a fun scenario.
Post by: t_ras on November 02, 2012, 11:06:53 PM
Very simple tactic - use force, if it doesnt work -> try again = have hordes of cheap units banging on the gates of the enemy city, no matter how many of them are killed, till the gates collaps.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 02, 2012, 11:14:07 PM
It appears to have kept you up pretty late, which is a good sign, I think.
:D
Post by: Earthmichael on November 03, 2012, 03:41:18 AM
I am currently trying the approach of getting Needlejets first, but this means not attacking for at least 30 turns. So I want to see if that will put me way behind the more direct approach.
Post by: t_ras on November 03, 2012, 11:34:30 AM
Post by: Mylochka on November 10, 2012, 04:52:08 PM
Post by: t_ras on November 10, 2012, 05:50:19 PM
Post by: t_ras on November 11, 2012, 11:34:09 AM
Post by: sisko on November 11, 2012, 02:14:40 PM
Here's a banner splash for Nomads. (Hope I'm posting this in the right place)great work, Mylochka!
Ho Miriam,Miriam...what do you mean?
Post by: t_ras on November 11, 2012, 02:19:16 PM
Post by: ariete on November 11, 2012, 04:39:03 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 12, 2012, 02:52:04 PM
ah BU ... so it had already doin a gipsy faction, nice the bases tooNo kiddin'. I didn't do anything but put in a new leaderhead, but you gotta love those bases. I was surprized how good they looked in game.
Post by: sisko on November 14, 2012, 08:45:31 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 15, 2012, 04:48:51 PM
We believe in the value of the GotM project; it provides content for the SMAC(X) community, and anything that grows our community is good. But counting downloads is just not a satisfactory measure of success, although Nomads is doing well by that measure. Tell us how it struck you. Report on what you liked and didn't like.
If you want to do something really ambitious to support and encourage us? Take screenies as you play and write up an AAR. Everybody loves a good AAR, and it's content all by itself. Make sure to put everything in spoiler tags, mind - you don't want to ruin surprises for others playing, and this IS a contest, too.
-Enter the contest, BTW. What've you got to lose?
Post by: Earthmichael on November 15, 2012, 05:20:50 PM
It is taking a long time to wrap up the game, due to rising water levels (probably mostly due to Believers ecodamage), has made progress more difficult.
I waited until I had copters before I started my attack, so it could be that this could have been done faster.
But I do have various saves along the way, so I can load some and screenshot for highlights.
Might be awhile longer, because I feel I need to finish before I post an AAR.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 15, 2012, 05:24:51 PM
Post by: t_ras on November 17, 2012, 11:46:58 AM
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 12:35:06 AM
I have attached the before win save. Just move a mindworm into the last city, and that's it. Is there anything else I am supposed to do for the contest? I did not make any colony pods, and I did not see any other restrictions. Can someone validate that my entry is OK? I don't want to wait two weeks, and then found out that there was some detail that makes my entry invalid, so please check early enough that I have time to fix and resubmit. Even if everything is OK, just post and let me know that it is OK. Thanks!
I thought this was a very fun scenario! Thanks for making it!
I will follow up with an AAR, but I wanted to get some idea of the preferred format.
The easiest way for me to go is to produce a PDF file. Is everyone good with PDF? Again, please post, because I do not want to get too far along in writing until I know what format I am going to use to write the AAR.
The victory screenshot is below. Press the spoiler button to see it.
(click to show/hide)
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 18, 2012, 12:41:30 AM
I'm not so sure about the .pdf thing, if I understand you. I mean, this is a forum and it seems like the standard post thing is the best way to go. Making an album for the pictures and [img] linking isn't nearly as much work as writing the game up. I dunno...
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 12:50:37 AM
If someone tells me how to do this, that would be great. Otherwise, all my screenshots show up at the end, which is too confusing to the reader. Also, if someone can give me a better way to screenshot, that would be good as well. Currently, I use PrtScn to copy from SMAC, and then paste into Paint. It works OK, but the quality is not the best.
Also, if someone can tell me how to hide my screenshot in my last post in spoiler flags, I will edit the post to do that.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 18, 2012, 01:02:51 AM
(click to show/hide)
That posted automatically when I was done, and I added the spoiler tags around it. I wish we'd always had that button; woulda saved me a lot of time with two tabs open to copy link to Graphics posts.
You're probably best off creating your own album to post to first, which you can do by hitting "Media" at the top of the page - and you shouldn't have any trouble figuring the rest.
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 01:13:23 AM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 18, 2012, 01:15:29 AM
Post by: BU Admin on November 18, 2012, 01:18:10 AM
XfireQuiz65x |
Hmm. Works fine for me, and this is in a different browser, Chrome, too.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 18, 2012, 01:19:55 AM
Come to think of it - BU DL created an album once to test something. It may not work for anyone who doesn't have an album of their own...
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 02:23:33 AM
But how do I get the file to display in a post???
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 18, 2012, 02:41:47 AM
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=467)
I went Media>the Xfire image and copied the code in the third box under the picture> pasted it in with [img] code (first button on the second row with [ center ] tag (buttont on on the first row) wrapped around that. As I said before, when you upload using the Avea button, it automatically posts with the BB code, but I don't much like how that puts it in a visible box. The Avea button is new, and I just found out it did that when I posted that post. I may continue with the second tab in the future; I don't know yet.
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 04:25:11 AM
(click to show/hide)
I initially used the BBC embed code, which did not work, so I tried the Direct link, which did work.
I will edit my prior post accordingly.
Post by: t_ras on November 18, 2012, 06:25:40 AM
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 06:32:21 AM
The game is actualy decided, but taking the cities takes time.Exactly. I don't know if your game is like mine, but constantly rising water levels caused the mop up to take a lot longer than it otherwise would have taken.
Post by: t_ras on November 18, 2012, 06:35:50 AM
Post by: Rymdolov on November 18, 2012, 05:39:18 PM
I might have another go, though, since I think I know what I did wrong:
(click to show/hide)
Oh well, better luck next time, I guess.
Post by: Earthmichael on November 18, 2012, 08:29:16 PM
http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2663.msg13769#msg13769 (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?topic=2663.msg13769#msg13769)
I was originally thinking of posting the advice/AAR on this thread, but then realized everything I wrote would be a spoiler. So I felt another thread would be better.
Post by: sisko on November 19, 2012, 11:33:09 AM
Can someone validate that my entry is OK?your submission is valid, Earthmichael. ;b;
Quote
I thought this was a very fun scenario! Thanks for making it!glad you enjoyed it!
Post by: sisko on November 20, 2012, 06:46:08 AM
Post by: sisko on November 23, 2012, 10:57:43 AM
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=471) (http://alphacentauri2.info/index.php?spage=gotm1211)
Post by: t_ras on November 23, 2012, 12:43:09 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on November 30, 2012, 03:07:18 PM
(http://alphacentauri2.info/MGalleryItem.php?id=476)
Post by: Earthmichael on December 08, 2012, 01:44:01 PM
I have not seen anything posted, but what is the best entry that has been emailed in so far? I am wondering what time I have to beat if I retry this.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 09, 2012, 03:34:30 AM
Post by: Green1 on December 09, 2012, 05:09:20 AM
Post by: t_ras on December 09, 2012, 07:52:07 AM
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:08:32 PM
I wondered how to put it, because I wanted to avoid two things: 1) sounding like “oh, look I’m so tough”, 2) sounding like I didn’t like your scenario. So let’s get it out of the way right now: 1) let’s just say I’m kinda masochist 2) I thoroughly enjoyed your scenario.
I really did. I like the faction, the new graphics, it really shows devotion and attention to details. the fact that you did posters and banners, that’s just – wow. It’s really cool and don’t you think that nobody cares. Because I do and I appreciate this kind of devotion to SMAX. I also liked the setting for AI, how they’re balanced, how it’s quite tough to infiltrate Morgan and Sparta because of their garrison probe teams, how Morgan behaves in the lategame. Cool! ;b;
So at first I played some, defeated Uni and well, left the game. It’s only when Earthmichael published AAR that I got to wonder why I hadn’t participate fully, like submit a game, discuss his strategy and stuff like that. And the reason is quite simple – there is little challenge here. I mean, it’s a great idea that you can’t build bases, but once you win several One City Challenges, being limited to five bases is not that a big deal.
You see, I love predesigned scenarios, their background stories, interesting settings, new units and so on, but I guess what I’m really looking for in them is challenge. I enjoyed Darsnan’s scenarios, what with new units and so on, but the best scenario I’ve ever played was definitely the “Things that Go Thump in the Night” by Blake, when you played Deirdre. The listed difficulty is “unholy hard”, and my God, was it hard.
http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?6606-Altera-Centauri-The-SMAC-X-Scenario-Repository-development-thread&p=213731&viewfull=1#post214198 (http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?6606-Altera-Centauri-The-SMAC-X-Scenario-Repository-development-thread&p=213731&viewfull=1#post214198)
In this scenario, Earth map, a ridiculously powerful Miriam sends your way waves of units, you have like maybe one tenth of her resources, so you have to very precisely place and use your units, and any mistake could result in death. I played that scenario when it was published, in 2005, spent like several evenings trying to beat it (reloaded many times), and when I finally did, it turned out to be one of my most satisfying and memorable single player experience ever. In TTGTITN a wrong choice between a farm and a sensor could cost you dearly. This is precisely why I loved it.
But I only mention it as a reference point, let’s move on to the Nomads scenario.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:09:30 PM
I struggled for a while, as Santiago and Zak would shake me down for techs, usually two at the time, but when I finally got air, the tables turned. I took one Santiago’s base, refurbished it as 1pop FM military-base and started to progress. I stopped in 2261 when I broke the neck of both Sparta and Uni. I managed to build Supercollider and I secured HGP, PTS, HSA and Living Refinery. With 13-1-12*2 Choppers, I don't think the game can be lost from here.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:10:08 PM
This challenge proved much more difficult than the previous one. I was forced to build a punishment sphere, otherwise I couldn’t make any progress under FM. And whenever I trade away a base, any garrison units are transferred to the recipient, and any assault units (and air) are sent back to my nearest base (i.e. my HQ). So I take a Santiago’s base, trade it to Morgan, my units are sent home, the base is emptied, Santiago takes it back, repeat ad infinitum. Times were rough, some bases changed hands between Sparta, Uni and Morgan many times, until I got MMI, when I simply started to cleanse this continent of ours. Soon Morgan could take empty bases, he killed Uni and Deirdre (the latter on his own), Lal killed off Miriam, I forced Santiago into submission. In 2327 I decided to save.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:11:29 PM
In my first attempt, I decided to go full berserk - nerve gas and base obliteration. This, however, proved to be disastrous. In no time I racked up humungous ecodamage, everyone hates me, I’m starting to get flooded. As if it wasn’t enough, Morgan actually used his choppers to attack my base tile! Under such circumstances, this can only end in one way. I lost.
Reload from the 2327 save. This time I decided to do standard expansion. I take bases from Morgan without gas, I trade them to Santiago. However, Morgan proved too strong at this moment and Santiago was too stupid. Also, Morgan again started to use the “chop&drop” strategy, I honest to God saw him cleaning a base with choppers and dropping an airborne unit there. Just like humans do! :o Soon Santiago got eradicated and I was left with Lal, who didn’t want to pact me even as I gift him with bases. I had no outpost for further military actions, so I considered it a fail.
Third attempt from 2327. This time I’m thinking maybe I should bid my time and not assault Morgan too early. I figured I should get massive ecodamage and drown the everloving poop out of the AI, then finish what’s left with navy. I crawl several boreholes under FM, sure enough mind worms start to pop up, sea level rises, soon I have more than 1k+ ecodamage. But then something strange started to happen – not anymore eco-damage-related sea rise. I get fungal bloom every turn, but mind worms don’t appear anymore, nothing else happens. On the top on that, they outvoted me to increase the shades. Darn…
All right, I think I have the ultimate response for solar shades – planet buster. With great mineral output, I start to crank out singularity PBs (one every 3 turns, then every 2 turns). I felt that the final hour is nearing, so I decided to save. 2398 reflects how much time I spent in my failed attempt to drown the planet. But at least I have all the mineral-enhancing staff.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:12:35 PM
OK, let’s get back to the 2398 save. Again, I keep building nukes and again Morgan renounces our pact some time later. Obviously this time I launch a full-scale attack, taking down most of his SP bases, and many other for good measure. See the save attached.
After I exploded like 10 nukes, I honestly start to think that I have chances to win. I conquered two nearby bases, started to build 24-1-14*4 gravships with Empath and Blink (Morgan had tons of MW and tachyon everywhere), and then… I got nuked. He destroyed my ODPs with his and nuked me. In OCC it’s bye-bye. I actually got to see the “you lose” movie, when you are captured and interrogated! Haven’t seen that one in ages. All right, I have enough for now, time to wrap up conclusions a little.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:13:40 PM
The tricky part is to repeal the charter so that you can obliterate smoothly, and Lal of course gets elected and vetoes this proposal. Here’s what I would do:
- Pact with Morgan and feed him bases, but try to beat Zak into submission
- If you did that, beat Santiago and give her bases to Zak
- Use Morgan bases as outposts to beat Lal and maybe Deirdre (if Morgan doesn’t do that)
- Get the election right so that neither Lal or Deirdre wins; Miriam and Santiago support repealing the charter, Uni is your slave, so you need to bribe Morgan and the charter is repealed
- Finish Lal, Deirdre and Miriam, this time trade away some and obliterate most bases
- When you’re down to Zak and Morgan, kill Morgan with Zak
- Now it’s really tricky – prepare your gravships to assault Zak; demand as many bases from him as you can (he won’t give up all of them); use the units in transferred bases to obliterate them, renounce the pact, move in to take Zak’s bases, obliterate, end the game with only your HQ on the Planet.
Of course as I said, OCC is not meant to played by conquest. It would take many hours between the time the game is decided and when it’s actually finished. And all the time there are factors beyond your control and not dependent on your skills, like you get nuked before ODP and it’s end of story. But still, I believe it’s doable.
Post by: Kirov on December 15, 2012, 03:15:06 PM
I’m sure I’m not the only one who would play it. Right, guys? Right? :)
THE END. Please comment and don’t hate me for spam.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 15, 2012, 03:37:49 PM
Thanks for letting us know you care.
Post by: Earthmichael on December 16, 2012, 06:31:31 PM
I was hoping to see someone else submit an entry that beat the time I submitted, hopefully while I still had time to give it another try. This would motivate me to see if I can play a little bit faster.
As it is, I am not sure if there is any submission (other than mine) to this scenario. BUncle, has anyone else submitted a completed scenario? If someone is going to submit, I hope that they do not wait until the last minute (like an ebay snipe bid), so that I do not have time to see if I can do better. So please submit soon, so that we can have an actual competition, instead of a sealed bid type scenario.
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 16, 2012, 06:50:31 PM
Post by: Kirov on December 16, 2012, 08:09:36 PM
Kirov, I think some of the challange I see in these scenarios is not whether I can win them or not, but the competition with the other players. Yes, I won, but did another player win 5 years sooner? If so, what can I do to tighten up my strategy? So with this in mind, Kirov, you should play the original scenario as described with no extra limitations, to see if you beat my time.
I was hoping to see someone else submit an entry that beat the time I submitted, hopefully while I still had time to give it another try. This would motivate me to see if I can play a little bit faster.
I don't know, Earthmichael... I'm not sure if I can meet the deadline, and you probably wouldn't be able to meet it afterwards (of course assuming I can beat your time). Maybe if we could postpone it? Even then, I can't promise I can get myself to finish the game. I haven't seen the end credits for ages, I always quit when the game is decided. :)
I think it would be much more fun to compare notes and discuss strategy if it was not race against time, but rather survival horror.
"- Dude, you done?
- Nah, still trying to figure it out.
- Me, too. I think I'll start with attacking Santiago this time.
- Don't. I did that yesterday and Hive came from the other side and beat me.
- Oh.
- Yeah. Right now I'm trying to get elite probe teams to do total thought control of that Zak's base with VW. Long shot, but what you can do.
- Ok. So I'll try running Green just to get Deirdre into a war with Morgan. Who knows, maybe I'll capture some MW in the process."
You know, more or less this kind of stuff. :) A scenario which keeps you on your toes and forces you to think outside of the box.
Post by: Kirov on December 17, 2012, 05:55:49 AM
I let Morgan live too long and didn't monitor him, that was my biggest mistake. But I'll share my thoughts later, now it's time to sleep (it's actually 7 AM here). :)
Post by: Kirov on December 17, 2012, 06:08:15 AM
I noticed that Earthmichael mentions in his AAR how he gets several techs through Planetary Datalinks, EnvEcon among them. Actually, there is no need to do that. Just start the scenario and before you do any movements at all, talk first to Sparta, then to Morgan. You get ca 10 techs, among them SFF, EcoEng, EnvEcon or Ethical Calculus. Also you can get maps from Santiago and Morgan, but don't do that with Morgan. At the end of the trade, ask him for a pact, he agrees for a tech, you get his maps.
Thus you can start to build your boreholes in turn 1 and you're already working on D:AP.
EDIT: I did just that and Planetary Datalinks was actually of little use to me.
Post by: Kirov on December 17, 2012, 12:56:38 PM
Post by: Earthmichael on December 17, 2012, 01:06:51 PM
Hello, I'd like to submit a game. The year is 2234, empty Gaia's Landing awaits you. That was fun! ;b; :)
I let Morgan live too long and didn't monitor him, that was my biggest mistake. But I'll share my thoughts later, now it's time to sleep (it's actually 7 AM here). :)
That was fast! On my first play through, I did not even start to attack until 2228! Now I have the motivation to see if I can match this excellent time!
Post by: Kirov on December 17, 2012, 07:52:18 PM
But I can contribute to this topic of ours! :) I managed to shave off 7 turns, it's 2227 and I come a-knocking to the last of Lal's doors.
Post by: Earthmichael on December 17, 2012, 11:59:59 PM
Post by: Kirov on December 18, 2012, 02:18:18 AM
When did you get MMI? Did you wait for MMI to make your attack? I presume you did.
I won't recall the MY (request for scenario creators: please don't make it Iron Man, people won't cheat anyway and it makes it hard to keep track of events or handle game crashes), but it might have been something around 2110. What worked for me was this:
- trade as much as you can with Santiago and Morgan
- wait with FM until you get contact with Deirdre, trade some more
- switch to FM, then Demo (and pact with Lal) (I always agree to war with Miriam, why not)
- focus everything you have on research and beeline to MMI (after D:AP I couldn't get NG, I had to to take Centauri Empathy/Meditation); I used librarians, tree farms and one research hospital
- when you beeline, don't build combat-related stuff, but rather tech-related
- when doing NG, prepare Aerospace Complexes and infantry to be upgraded to Drop units
- immediately after MMI, switch to Green, 90% ECON, in the next turn switch to Fundie
- mow down Uni
Yes, at my second attempt (2227) I waited with the attack for MMI. There is little point in attacking earlier, Zak has air to take down your 6-1-2 units. But I might have done something wrong strategically here. I never know, sometimes AI sees my units in fungus, sometimes it doesn't.
Apart from SFF and MMI, the only techs necessary to deal with AI is Fusion Power and String Theory. Infiltrate beforehand to know whom to rob.
Also, I didn't build any SP. More crawlers and formers instead.
I used nerve gas against Morgan, who is the toughest nut to crack on this Planet.
Post by: Earthmichael on December 19, 2012, 06:06:06 PM
Request for scenario creators: please don't make it Iron Man, people won't cheat anyway and it makes it hard to keep track of events or handle game crashesI totally agree with this! The Iron Man made it much, much harder to do the AAR!
Kirov, thanks for the incentive to better my time!
I am posting a win date of 2222. Just air drop a unit into the last city to win the game. Even though I used fewer turns, it took a lot longer in real time than my first try. I must have spent over 10 hours on this! If you can beat 2222, you win; I won't replay again.
Thanks for another fun scenario!
Post by: Kirov on December 19, 2012, 09:40:33 PM
I'm not trying to beat your result, I'm done for a while. :) Maybe if we had like two weeks more, but I started playing too late. And although I saw some room for improvement in my game, it'd still be polishing the same strategy, just being more attentive to details. So I'll pass, you deserve it.
If you started pre-MMI, I want to know. I was thinking about a slightly different strategy, attacking with 6-1-2, maybe amphibious, to quickly pummel Zak and Morgan into submission. Then you don't have to focus so much on teching. When I played OCC I noticed that Morgan was very generous with tech gifting and he gave me D:AP and MMI for free. However, I couldn't replicate that in standard Nomads with 5 bases, probably Morgan AI considered me a threat. Still, extorting air techs from AI could push the victory by several turns more.
Of course, you have to wait for Zak to build HSA. The fact that he does it is actually a gift to the player. ;)
Some feedback for the creators, apart from thank you very much that was time well wasted:
- don't make it Iron Man, especially for AAR
- make sure that SE settings are fine (I wrote about Wealth above)
- the game would be much tougher if we couldn't trade techs from Santiago and Morgan in turn 1; make sure you take it into account (I don't know if it was designed or not)
- last but not least - please post the exact rules for the scenario! What makes really huge difference in Nomads is Cooperative victory. If it's on, then we with Earthmike were being silly and could have easily cut our times by several turns. I didn't want to test it because of Iron Man so I assumed it's off. But this thing was important here and it could actually affect the choice of strategy (I definitely would consider attacking Morgan earlier and make him my pet lab faction)
Which reminds me of one thing, I'll verify it soon - I had an impression while playing Nomads that I didn't accumulate lab points from capturing bases when my tech slider was at 0%. Is it true?
Anyway, many thanks to the creators and I'm looking forward to the next GotM! ;b; :)
Post by: Earthmichael on December 19, 2012, 10:28:45 PM
The only thing I see that might have sped my research a bit was that I built Research Hospitals in all of my 5 original bases for the extra 50% Labs bonus. It was a bit of a tradeoff to get the energy to rush build the Research Hospitals. But I figured the extra 50% bonus would quickly pay me back for the turns that I went 100% economy to get the energy to rush build.
I did steal one tech from the Gaians that help me advance to MMI. (Even though I had a pact with Gaia, they would not trade techs.)
I built only one SP. I figured +2 morale for everything I built was worth it.
I did not keep 100% in economy. I continued research until I got 10 Attack. I did not attack Morgan until I had this. The 6 Attack was good enough to defeat everyone else, so I started with University, then Sparta, then Believers. At this point I got the 10 Attack, so I built a force of 10X Choppers to attack Morgan, while my initial force took care of everyone else.
I thought the rules stated that all bases had to be captured, so I did not accept any of the surrender offers. But as Kirov mentioned, that could have saved quite a few turns.
Post by: Kirov on December 20, 2012, 02:20:50 AM
You pacted with Dee? So you didn't use FM? Do you recall your tech rate (to MMI)? I remember I had to wait like 9 turns to NG and then MMI (under FM). But even one tech to MMI received from the Lady would be more useful than FM. On the yet third hand, I wonder if I could have got D:AP from Morgan after gifting him with a Uni's base... :) Talk about machaviellism.
I switched to 90% cash immediately after MMI, interesting. Fusion, A8 and A10 I stole. I remember the worst thing that slowed me down was damage to my A6 choppers, so your approach does seem very much in order.
Anyways, chapeau bas, I see you at the next GotM! :) I hope they cook up some insanely hard scenario. Gentlemen, hurt us. :mad:
Post by: Earthmichael on December 20, 2012, 01:50:58 PM
When I first contacted Gaia, I switched to Green to impress her. The next turn (because there is a one turn lag for effect) I contacted Gaia and pacted, but she would not trade NG to me! So I went back to FM, and stole NG with my elite probe cruiser, framing Morgan, and keeping the pact with Gaia!
Gaia never was willing to trade me a single tech the entire game, probably because she thought I was too powerful.
My tech rate right before MMI was 4 turns/tech with 100% labs allocation. This is due to pacts with Morgan, Uni, Gaia, and PK, 3 boreholes, Research labs everywhere, and a bunch of HQ crawlers crawling energy from high solar collectors. So I am sure stealing NG got me to MMI at least 4 turns earlier than I would have gotten on my own.
Post by: Earthmichael on December 20, 2012, 02:13:35 PM
So I moved my probe cruiser to touch the Uni former on Turn 1, and talked to Uni before anyone else, traded Uni as much tech as they wanted, and was able to get a pact. Only afterwards did I talk to Sparta and Morgan, and trade techs with them.
I think I covered this in my AAR, but I wanted to mention it specifically, because I got the impression that Kirov did not have a pact with Uni. This pact provides a bit of extra energy to help speed things along.
Post by: Kirov on December 20, 2012, 03:14:28 PM
In my games, Zak just demanded SotB and either way didn't want go to past Truce. Dee - Treaty if I waited with FM, Truce if I didn't.
Yeah, I need to remember that. I don't have the habit of changing SE for the AI's sake, especially as most hate Wealth anyway. I thought I'm making a big sacrifice to wait with FM until I meet Dee. ;) Oh well, I like her so much and she always hates me. You can't have both money and love, I guess. :D
Post by: Earthmichael on December 21, 2012, 03:34:08 AM
But even with that, she just will not trade techs! It seems practically every tech she researches has some secret project she wants to build first. I think this is one aspect of the AI that is screwed up: instead of just not offering the tech that they want to keep to themselves for now, they will not trade any tech at all if they are planning to build a project based on a tech they have.
Post by: Kirov on December 21, 2012, 03:39:49 PM
You worked around the problem of Lady D not selling techs by probing her. ;) Well done but obviously not 100% sure if you want to frame. If I was to attempt Nomads again, I think I would enslave Zak and give one of his bases (even two) to Dee and try to get NG this way. Even if the coop is off, you can then easily finish Zak off and recapture Gaian bases just before the end.
Getting NG from Dee is an important thing on the way to quick conquest. Even giving her several very good techs (but not Silksteel Alloys) and 1-2 bases could be worth it.
Similarly, Morgan has D:AP before you and doesn't want to share. I've always wondered what's the underlying mechanics for AI's attitude towards you. I don't mean the obvious like they hate you if you're strong, but the impact of trades, gifts and SE on their willingness to cooperate.
Post by: Earthmichael on December 22, 2012, 01:07:28 AM
The scenario rules definitely should spell out the surrender issue. It would definitely have been to my advantage to accept Zak's surrender and use him as a research tool. It would also have allowed me to move on to Sparta sooner, and the 3 bases that Zak had left when he surrendered did not make that much difference to my game.
Another good thing about your idea of giving a base or two to Dee, is if she still does not cooperate, they are very accessible for probing.
I think SPs have a lot to do with AI tech trades. I think the reason you could not trade for D:AP, is because there is a secret project associated with it. Same with Dee being reluctant to trade; it seemed she always had a SP in the works, and she would take to me after completion.
Post by: Kirov on December 27, 2012, 06:26:13 PM
Another good thing about your idea of giving a base or two to Dee, is if she still does not cooperate, they are very accessible for probing.
I realized one obvious flaw in my idea - to give her a base, I'd have to fight Zak before MMI. :D Alternatively, I could give her one of my own bases (in my last attempt I starved down one base to fit it for FM military and it was my biggest mistake as I switched to Green soon; the base was impaired so I could trade it). Still, it's something that would need improving.
Quote
I think SPs have a lot to do with AI tech trades. I think the reason you could not trade for D:AP, is because there is a secret project associated with it. Same with Dee being reluctant to trade; it seemed she always had a SP in the works, and she would take to me after completion.
I can't say I share your experience that if AI is building something, then it won't trade even those techs which are not related to that SP (D:AP doesn't give any Project). I believe they don't trade just that one technology. But then again, I'm no expert on AI as usually I don't pay much attention to it. In most cases they don't have anything I want, and if they demand something, I just tell them to eff off.
It's quite likely that in order to really push down the number of turns in scenarios like this, proper handling of AI will be crucial.
Post by: Earthmichael on January 19, 2013, 03:08:09 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on January 19, 2013, 03:16:05 PM
Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 13, 2014, 11:47:41 PM