Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Topic started by: Rainbow Lizard on October 20, 2012, 09:06:33 PM

Title: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 20, 2012, 09:06:33 PM
Hello people who reside in this forum. I am a prismatic reptile, as some of you may know, and I am working on a set of seven custom factions for SMAC/X. I currently just have possession of SMAC, so I cannot set faction colors or certain text file bonuses, but I will soon. These are the factions.
I need help with for the art of all but the Paladins and Hackers. Any help will be appreciated.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rymdolov on October 20, 2012, 09:19:45 PM
Sounds like a bunch of strong factions. Could be good for people who want a challenge, perhaps. If they use your factions as opponents, I mean.

I like the ideas. Most of them seem unusually original to me.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 09:29:37 PM
Good ideas, and you've done some nice fleshing out. 

Hmm.  Maybe the Hedonists?  They're really rather like the Morganites, but concerned with the ends of living well, not the means of wealth.  Morgan's caught in a sort of dominance game with the world, after all, using money as the measure of winning.  The Hedonists would be pretty good trading partners and nieghbors, I thnk, until they see a resource bonus right over the border with you...
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 20, 2012, 09:52:48 PM
A nice idea, BUncle, but they wouldn't explicitly state that they were hedonists. Anyway, I find my designated tech partner to be the Hackers.
By the way, what do you think of a faction who believe that the Planet is going to kill them if they use too much tech, and therefore are ultra-planet based? They are oddly correct.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 20, 2012, 09:59:20 PM
I don't see why not.  Darsnan did that with some alternate Progs years ago, mind you, who were stranded on a planet that was seeded with tech-eating nanobots, but the idea is still original to you.  Planet doesn't really care for all the metal and lubricants, I think, and may very well be more likely to mindworm attack a recon rover than just a fellow on foot with breathing gear, especially if he's wearing clothes/shoes made of native materials to improve his smell - and fungal gin on his breath only helps.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: JarlWolf on October 21, 2012, 12:59:57 AM
That's sort of what the Planet Cult's idea is, be attuned to the planet and to accustom itself to the Planet's will.

It also explains why their industry and such is so low as well.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2012, 01:43:36 AM
It's definitely got some parallels.  Might could be a splinter group - "We like the harmony with Planet, but maybe with less random violence and no religion or Cha Dawn."
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2012, 07:24:52 PM
Say, Spectrum Iguana, I just noticed your edit in Graphics where you added the attachment - paladin.png is a servicable faction graphic as-is when you finish, but it's my duty as a teacher to tell you how to make it even better.

The bases have the same sort of problem as the last set you made yourself; nothing really wrong, but an overall low-res sorta look.  You need to fix the perspective on the roofline and do something to enhance the lighting from the right. 

I think all your at-rest logos are too dark to look good in-game.  You also want to put some careful thought into how the symbol looks a little like a swastika; it fits teutonic Vikings well, but you know that Hitler ruined using the symbol for everyone forever.

Your leaderhead is too happy-looking, I think, and looks too much like a processed photo still.  A little work blurring together the colors of the facial skin, especially on the cheeks ought to fix the latter (you want to reduce the detail of his face except for the actual features) - maybe a background change would help, too.  Changing his eyes to look into the camera is not tough to do; just select the darks of his eyes and move them right until they look right.  The smile is tougher.  You can't really see his mouth much, but the lines in the cheeks around the mouth give it away, as does the way the cheeks bunch up under the eyes.  Move those lines in and down, and he'll look more serious and dangerous.

Of course, it's your faction and you don't have to do anything I say.  Please yourself.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 21, 2012, 08:59:27 PM
Thanks for the advice. I'll get to work.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 21, 2012, 09:04:03 PM
Good man.  I'll look forward to it - you're a quick study and you have talent.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 21, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
The Zephyr Legion and The Paladins of Thor sounds good for me ...  ;santi; (my passion)

7 new factions dedicated at the war concept was a project I had in mind at the time when I joined the forum (kingdom of cartel, federation armada and union were examples of what i tried to create), 2 alien faction in civil war i think it can't miss ... excuse me if i used your thread for a parenthesis of my personal consideration
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Pickly on October 23, 2012, 02:51:29 AM
Zephyr bonus ideas:

Doctrine: Mobility as a startng technology makes sense from a story point of view.
Free Aerospace complex would certainly make sense as a bonus, if you added a lot of negatives to make up for it
+1 morale for being military oriented
-1 or 2 efficiency (to represent the "honor" system getting in the way of effective work.)
-1 industry perhaps, for similar backstory reasons as the spartans
Free promotion for needlejets may also work, although I'm not sure if this would eat too much into the other advantages from flexibility of special abilities.
-1 support may work, if this society is based on an "small number of elite pilots" mentality (Therefore each pilot would require a lot of resources, grooming, etc.)  If not, just ignore this.
+offense, -defense could fit, if you assume the culture emphasizes being aggressive heavily, also seems it may fit with air units well without helping ground as much.
Probe I could see being + or -, depending on what the "honor" means in your idea of this faction.

Hope these ideas help.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 23, 2012, 09:16:02 PM
Here's the new Viking Leaderhead. Is it any good?
Pickly, I like the ideas, but it would make them a bit underpowered, especially compared to people like the Paladins.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2012, 09:27:30 PM
It's much better.  Probably good enough if you can make him look at the camera.  Try lightening a few pixels at the left corner of his eyes.  They're too dark as is.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 23, 2012, 09:28:25 PM
i don't like (if i can ...), few space contest for leader. if you looking for you can found better for my advice
i found this nice alternative for the logo, but your is already cool
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/chromaco/chromaco1201/chromaco120100010/11861901-cartoon-mascotte-nordic-viking-o-barbaro-indossa-un-elmo-cornuto.jpg)

... maybe kilkakon appreciate this for the leader
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs50/f/2009/338/5/4/APH___Nordic_Viking_by_puda_cheeze.jpg)
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2012, 09:30:57 PM
I they weren't wearing pants, you'd have really nailed it. ;lol
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 23, 2012, 10:09:56 PM
maybe we can paint a uncensored version of these guys
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 23, 2012, 10:10:56 PM
someone can be females ... or both  ;lol
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2012, 10:13:13 PM
My mother would be ashamed if I did it and she found out. ;)
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Green1 on October 23, 2012, 10:25:18 PM
The "Paladins of Thor" sounds like the guys at the real life commune in Mississippi. These guys actually live in the woods and worship Norse Gods.  Not sure how all these neo-pagans slipped onboard the Unity!
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 23, 2012, 10:42:27 PM
it could be a nordic race comunity, a sort of a matter of grouping racial, who follow their earth cultural and religion origins
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Green1 on October 23, 2012, 10:50:55 PM
it could be a nordic race comunity, a sort of a matter of grouping racial, who follow their earth cultural and religion origins

I do not know.. if you include those guys you got to include the other commune down the highway from them in Mississippi. There is another one called "Camp Sister Spirit". Under the guise of a retreat for battered women, it is actually a militant feminist lesbian neopagan cult! Yes.. Limbauh's Feminazis! Reproduce by in-vitro.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 23, 2012, 11:08:49 PM
i can't to follow you ...
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Green1 on October 23, 2012, 11:32:32 PM
What I meant was, whenever I think of the Thor folks, I think about the guys in a commune in Mississippi worshipping Odin and Thor in the woods of Mississippi. Neopagan rednecks.

BUT, there is also another commune in MS called Camp Sister Spirit that would give Rainbow Lizard one of his new factions!

Yes... Thor has brought me through word association to the Feminazi Front!

FACTION LOGO... Girl Scout symbol with a pentagram and swastika!

-3 Growth:  Elimination of male children and in vitro birth only.
+1 Morale:  Fervent belief system.
+1 Effeciency Tight control.

MAY NOT USE FREE MARKET.
FREE RECYCLE TANK each base.

Starting Tech: Biogenics, Social Psch.

Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 23, 2012, 11:36:47 PM
ariete, we all have trouble understanding him sometimes.  It's not just you.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 24, 2012, 08:27:51 PM
That's a ... novel idea, Green.
Right now, I need an idea for another peaceful faction, because I like the 2 Warlike, 3 Erratic and 2 Peaceful system. I'll work on implementing a green faction and a wealth faction.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 24, 2012, 08:56:33 PM
A popular concept in the early days of online custom factions was a 'terraformer faction'. I don't know if anyone ever finished a good one, and none with art, but the idea was really that they are farmers/pure colonists out to shape their new world to their will/comfort.  Lotta fungus removal, not so much with the harmony with Planet, but by their nature, not that interested in what other factions are up to as long as they have plenty of land they can farm/shape without interference.

How's that?
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Green1 on October 25, 2012, 02:29:36 AM
SMAniaC when doing his Civ 4 Planetfall mod divided factions up between native and terraformer. However, I believe this over simplifies things. There are times you would wnat to go hybrid.

BTW, do not worry if I cannot be "understood". If asked, I will clarify. I think we are all some wierd, eccentric folks at heart. That is what makes this a great place and drives us.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 25, 2012, 02:51:41 AM
I am glad you took that in good humor; it was an observation, not a complaint or slight.  We are nerds, and must put up with each others' eccentricies. ;b;

Maniac, BTW, hasn't answered to SMAniaC in forever.  Also, I don't understand your point.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Green1 on October 25, 2012, 03:19:16 AM
aaargh...

So... must I agree to a mind meld? Not sure you guys and gals would be the same.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 25, 2012, 03:26:18 AM
You do most of your best posting when you're into the beer, but you assume things when you speak, and don't listen well.  What do you mean by "divided factions up between native and terraformer. However, I believe this over simplifies".  I contributed in a modest way to Planetfall, but have never played it.  Assume I know nothing.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 25, 2012, 04:36:37 AM
And if I may add - Green, I appreciate the respect you extend when you assume I know things I need to to understand your remarks. 

I tend to the opposite, having rarely spent enough time in the company of people outside my family who could keep up with me - it's never the truly bright people, but some find me unbearably condescending in my habit of explaining so much of what I say and defining terms and such. [shrugs] 95+% of the time, it saves time and is what works best.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Pickly on October 25, 2012, 04:52:49 AM
Here's the new Viking Leaderhead. Is it any good?
Pickly, I like the ideas, but it would make them a bit underpowered, especially compared to people like the Paladins.

I wasn't really paying attention to the power of the other factions when suggesting ideas, so here are a few more bonus thoughts.  Also, remember that these are not strict ideas I'm suggesting, rather they are meant as more general suggestions to give you some idea of what you might go for  (They were also not meant as bonuses that would be used together, just separate ideas for possible penalties.).

Some more thoughts:

Free Skunkworks/no prototype costs:  Pilots like having the newest and coolest equipment
Doctrine: Air power as a starting tech (Could be really powerful on its own, as with the free aerospace complexes.)
+Police: in gameplay terms, would make using air power easier.  In backstory terms, harder to explain, perhaps war unhappiness is less due to air power being a greater focus, or elite imposes more discipline on the population.
Free Chopper at start(unitary chopper likely, to avoid too easy rushes)
No power penalty:  Seems to fit the faction generally

As for a terraforming faction, the attachment  is one I made a few years ago, when I was still playing, hopefully can give you some ideas.  (In backstory terms, is meant to be more like the basic/alien crossfire factions than your more wild mod ideas, but may still give some ideas for bonuses, motivations etc.  A penalty of unhappy citizens, like with university, is something I'd add to the faction if made now.)
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 25, 2012, 04:59:58 PM
I like those bonuses, he who resembles a cucumber left to soak in vinegar.
By the way, I'm finding the Paladins to be too overpowered. A little help?
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Kilkakon on October 27, 2012, 07:12:00 AM
Haha not bad Ariete. And :P at everybody saying that there needs to be less clothing on them. Not that you're wrong, it's just like, heh. XD

As for Aerospace Complexes, they are probably one of the three best facilities in the game, so handing them out for free (satellites anyone?) needs a lot of downsides to make fair.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 27, 2012, 11:55:58 AM
I decided not to give them all aerospace complexes. Also, I'm pretty much done with the faction ideas. I'll update the main post, but if you have any improvements, just tell me.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Pickly on October 28, 2012, 10:04:03 PM
As for Aerospace Complexes, they are probably one of the three best facilities in the game, so handing them out for free (satellites anyone?) needs a lot of downsides to make fair.

Yes, that's why unit was easier to think of big downsides in the first post.  (Too bad there's no way to mod the deeper mechanics of the game to give some sort of air related bonuses without being overpowered in the same way.  Guess I'll have to get into Civ5 or wait for Civ 6 modding for that sort of thing.)
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: JarlWolf on October 29, 2012, 10:24:29 AM
I have some pictures for the Norse faction, if you're interested.

(http://joshuabuchanan.com/Images/40k/squats/crest.JPG)
Possible faction logo.

(http://img7.xooimage.com/files/1/c/b/battle_dwarf_of_k...by_baardk-1232b8.jpg)
This possible leaderhead will need some editing, of which I am willing to do if you want, but I hope that helps.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Rainbow Lizard on October 31, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
Sorry, but I already have the logo and leaderhead for the Viking faction, and I find those two to look too cliche.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 31, 2012, 03:47:33 PM
A bit more of an ahistorical popular take than how they saw themselves, yes?  Your almost-swastika showed impressive knowlege of nordic iconography.
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: ariete on October 31, 2012, 04:30:13 PM
JarlWolf you've find a very beautiful image to use as leaderhead

i've found this
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZs4SoxAHnCTQFfTTiTXSzL6mdwvvAqDf3g3yDIJCuXhDPsQ3q4A)

Rainbow sorry if we range but the Viking idea is very interesting and apparently involving us (and i'm not a nordic ...  just for nothing :D)
i don't like your leaderhead (but this i've already tell you), and i don't think the huts are correct for space context ... but it's your faction and this is my personal opinion
sorry for my english can result too direct but it's what i wanna comunicate to you

if i'had some people who posted images or alternartive ideas on my thread i would had been certainly pleased (i hope is a correct english form :-[).
No result is final and more heads i listen more great can be my work
Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
Post by: Yitzi on November 12, 2012, 12:47:52 AM
Hello people who reside in this forum. I am a prismatic reptile, as some of you may know, and I am working on a set of seven custom factions for SMAC/X. I currently just have possession of SMAC, so I cannot set faction colors or certain text file bonuses, but I will soon. These are the factions.
  • The Zephyr Legion, an honorable faction based on airborne warfare, with a classic Japanese architectural and cultural choice. Bonuses are +1 Morale and Police, but -2 to growth. They start with Doctrine: Air Power. They use power as their value, being a military faction.

Air power at the beginning?  That's going to be way too strong, especially with a morale bonus.

Quote
    [li$i]The Hack Kings, a utilitarian faction that wishes everyone to be happy and utilises virtual reality. They start with +1 Research and Support, but -2 Morale. All of their bases start with a Recreation Commons and a Hologram Theatre, minimizing drone activity, but they have no free techs. Aversion is Thought control and they gravitate towards Eudaimonia. They play like a cross between the Angels and Peacekeepers.[/li][/list]

    Interesting idea...they'll be very good for stability, and with a research bonus they could do ok.

    Quote
      [li$i]The People of Knowing, a scientific faction made by the goal to achieve omniscience, and do not care about anything else. They have an amazing +3 Research and any 3 bonus techs. However, they have Zakharov's drone problem and a -1 to Industry, Growth and Planet. They will frequently attack the Hack Kings due to their opposite ideas of a future society. They can go a peaceful or military route.[/li][/list]

      They'll have a really hard time pop booming, which is probably the only reason they're not overpowered.

      Quote
        [li$i]The Paladins of Thor, a warlike faction based on the vikings of old, with the military to boot. They have a +2 bonus to morale and a +1 to growth, as well as the +25% Morale bonus from the fanatic special rule, as well as having the Doctrine:Mobility . However, they suffer from a -2 to research and a -1 industry. Thy value power but neglect knowledge. They are incredibly deadly in combat, but next to useless trying to be a peaceful builder thanks to the lack of research, and remain rather low-tech.[/li][/list]

        Might be a bit overpowered if they go fundamentalist and probe their way to anything near tech parity.

        Quote
          [li$i]The Guild of Psychics, a mystical faction that is known for their erratic nature. They boast a +2 bonus to Probe, a +1 bonus to growth, but a -1 to economy. They also have an immunity to mind control and the free tech Social Psych. They dislike Free Market's mean nature but enjoy Planned economics. And of course, they have a +50% bonus to Psi attacks. They are incredible at covert ops, but rarely make enough energy to mind control, leading to the use of Mindworms.[/li][/list]

          Probably overpowered; with 50% bonus to psi, they can go Green and be extremely militarily powerful, and just use probes to steal tech (after mind worms have killed all the defenders including probe teams) from those who go free market and have a tech advantage.

          Quote
            [li$i]Golden Future Corp., a Tycoon faction like the Morganites, but a little less greedy and a little more Canadian. They feature a +1 to both Research and Economy, but suffer from a -1 to morale and planet. They start with the tech Industrial Base, and get a free Energy Bank at every base. They are very peaceful, preferring wealth as their value and preferring peace to war.[/li][/list]

            +1 economy is very strong; I don't think -1 morale and planet will balance it.[/list]
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Rainbow Lizard on November 12, 2012, 07:36:30 PM
            I'll take that into account.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Green1 on December 09, 2012, 02:56:50 AM
            @Rainbow Lizard

            Any chance you can get one of these factions out in the next two weeks? I am hunting for custom factions in an AAR after Lal Must Suffer which will I will need them in two weeks.

            Already, I am going to take these:

            Oblivion. Kilk's New Eden "bad guy" faction (PG rated)
            Stepahanie. Chuft's Lazymod faction.

            I will be playing Miriam. Right now I am going through NN factions. It is a lot of them and some will come from there. Just so many choices - some good, some trash.

            I am also looking at some of BU's stuff. His Borg seem pretty cool, but he may have another preference. That next AAR is going to be weirdness.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Buster's Uncle on December 09, 2012, 03:25:44 AM
            I prefer the bald-leader Borg -the other leader with hair isn't my work, though other elements are- but I never playtested either enough to have any real opinion about playability.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Green1 on December 09, 2012, 05:02:34 AM
            I prefer the bald-leader Borg -the other leader with hair isn't my work, though other elements are- but I never playtested either enough to have any real opinion about playability.

            Yeah.. I am very aware I am potentially setting myself up for a situation where I could get stomped.

            I will use whatever faction you recommend. Still, that is a lot of factions to look through. And... Lal is doing okay but is not out of the woods yet. I may have to eventually nuke Zak, if my IoD tactic I am brewing will not work. Yang just does not want to give up, either. We have been swapping 3 bases over and over out there in the east. But I digress.

            Back in the days of old, they really should have set up a point-buy system for these factions. My guess though is the MPers would outright refuse to play with you if you brought one of these factions out. Hell, they probably still would to this day. T_ras? Mind if I bring an OP faction? lol... It would be worse than showing up insisting I play Marr.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Rainbow Lizard on December 15, 2012, 10:44:41 AM
            Well, I'm finally back. Sorry, I was on Holiday. So, here's my edits.
            The Knowers get 2 free techs instead of 3. I'm working on their faction images.
            The Zephyrs have faction images and start with Advanced Military Algorithms instead.
            The Paladins have an Industry debuff as they were proving too OP. They also have finished graphics now.
            The Corporation have slightly less probing skills to balance.
            The Hackers are unchanged.
            I really need to get the Fungal Clan up.
            The Psychics have lots of changes. The PSI bonus has been reduced to 30%, the probe bonus has been reduced to 1 and they now have a free drone in every base.

            Tell me if there is any balance issues you can find.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Green1 on December 15, 2012, 08:23:17 PM
            No problem. The last month, I was so busy I was pressed for time as well. It is not like we are getting paid for this (although in a perfect, cool world being able to do nothing but game/mod/ be on forums without having to deal with employers would be a utopia)

            Where do you have these available for download? Or have I overlooked somewhere?

            EDIT: I do expect some imbalance. Custom faction system in SMAX is almost like an afterthought and not part of the system. More modern games and even a rare few from near that era with custom factions use point-buy systems. Some of the NN node ones did not have editors or quality control.
            Title: Re: A New Faction Set Approaches!
            Post by: Rainbow Lizard on December 18, 2012, 06:52:02 PM
            I'll update the main post soon with the incomplete download links.
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