Alpha Centauri 2

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri & Alien Crossfire => Modding => Bug/Patch Discussion => Topic started by: Flygon on October 02, 2012, 10:29:34 AM

Title: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Flygon on October 02, 2012, 10:29:34 AM

Okay, I just KNOW this'd never get implemented, but Kilkakon and I think it'd be a pretty good idea to record the concept. 8)

The idea is simple... bases can have multiple different types of different workers inside them, each assigned to the different types of citizen the nationality on the base. For example, a Hive base recently taken over by the Peacekeepers that has had population growth, would have a visible mix of Hive and Peacekeeper citizens. Additionally, this concept could be extended to Peace Treaties and Pact Brotherhoods, to represent the mixing of citizenships between the allied factions/nationalities, relative to how close the cities of each faction/nationality neighbour each other.

Of course, the concept could also be expanded in the base-game with regards to the Aliens, assuming a system where you can disable the Alien cities pod-dropping every time you capture them (and vice versa)... in hindsight, this might be why they pod-drop. ;lol

This would also be useful for user-mods, where there'd be multiple different species inside the game (and having just two citizen sets most certainly doesn't work), this applies to Kilkakon's Lost Eden mod, and one I keep picking up and giving up on sporadically. I imagine this'd enhance other modder's abilities to modify the game, also.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 02, 2012, 10:32:52 AM

A sister problem to this is how the sex of the citizens changes randomly in a city. I was going to use the two sexes as two different species but having people change species randomly is a bit strange. Perhaps fixing that and then expanding it to include other races/species is the way to go? :)

But yes, do want. :D

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 02, 2012, 12:32:51 PM

I wouldn't think that would be too hard to code, if one could do that scient stuff at all...

You know doing anything with race is asking for trouble though, don't you?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Flygon on October 03, 2012, 02:58:27 AM

Quote from: BUncle on October 02, 2012, 12:32:51 PM

You know doing anything with race is asking for trouble though, don't you?

We'll avoid colonial era Britian mods.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 03:25:07 AM

Not to be guilty of the kind of thing I'm talking about, but I get the distinct impression from a lot of sources, including personal interaction, that white Aussies aren't --- not at all so much that they're racist, but that they don't get that it's an unfair world, and these things matter to a lot of people.

Just saying that what you propose is potentially very dicey, so tread carefully and listen well if anyone raises specific issues.

...

Now, a bit we can work on now is to begin designing what a tiny headshot of the prototypical citizen of each faction would look like - we've got the graphical skill among us to spare. 

Finding a way to get it coded is another matter, but I do think it would be simple for someone savy enough to run down the necessary section in the .exe.  I'll have to Skype scient the link to this thread as soon as I post.  He ain't gonna do it anytime soon, but what the heck.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 03, 2012, 03:49:14 AM

It's true we are pretty multicultural I suppose. Hard to say as I am pretty different from the norm...

Even so, race needn't be as much of a factor as say, clothing.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 04:17:46 AM

Just recognize that it could be a third rail the second someone reads some meaning into something you did.

Now, about those worker designs...

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 04:14:24 PM

So, when I sent scient the link, I said "...We'd work you full-time if you would let us..."

scient replies:

Quote

haha I wish I could do smac modding as job :x
I think I know general location in code for citizens
when I was working on something else
let me see if later tonight I can poke around

So that's not a promise, just a maybe, but  :danc: :danc: :danc: :danc: :danc:

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 03, 2012, 04:24:56 PM

Sweet a tangible reply! Let us savour this moment... ;nuke;

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 04:41:34 PM

..I asked him about the previous thing again, while I had his attention.  No reply yet.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 03, 2012, 04:46:44 PM

One POSITIVE thing about the race angle coming into it that we totally should do?

The workers in place are all white.  That ain't what the world really looks like, and non-whites DO notice crap like that where us pale types almost never do.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 04, 2012, 05:39:23 AM

Yeah. :) Equality is equality after all.

One thing I can point out is that Civ 3 does this, well I can't remember if they do skin colour but they do have citizen clothing based off faction (so if they defect to you, they keep their current clothes on).

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2012, 05:48:44 AM

Not like in Lost Eden at all then.  ;rotflmao

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 04, 2012, 05:55:25 AM

Haha that's right! And because of the random sex bug they are all identical...

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2012, 05:58:41 AM

Because of the random sex bug they leave the pants at home, so no one will miss the show.   ;lol

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Flygon on October 04, 2012, 07:56:37 AM

Quote from: BUncle on October 04, 2012, 05:58:41 AM

Because of the random sex bug they leave the pants at home, so no one will miss the show.   ;lol

I have absolutely no idea how much innuendo you intended, just then. :P

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2012, 03:05:14 PM

Now, about those worker designs...

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 04, 2012, 08:15:30 PM

scient didn't get to it last night, but says he's got it set up on his laptop - he has a long bus ride tomorrow, and is planning to work on it during that.

Now, about those worker designs -- I'll pitch in, but I won't do your project for you...

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 05, 2012, 04:09:45 PM

I agree, I have absolutely no idea how to take that statement you made BUncle hahaha.

Yay, that would be awesome to have the workers done. :D I can picture great ones for LE, that's for sure. Like females. I've heard good things about females.

Morgan's followers should wear money instead of clothing. And top hats, can't forget the class.


But the big thing is to get a release of the stuff that's been done already. I'd love to play with COMMFREQ, for example.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2012, 04:15:57 PM

Hmm. Lal's people ought to be all sorts, but that's too complex - maybe just make then generic east Indian, male and female?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 05, 2012, 04:25:32 PM

Agreed--one thing though, definitely keep the racial tones the same regardless of citizen type (talent/worker/drone/whatever) as that's going to cause problems otherwise.

Gaian talent women would probably be those telepathy naked tree types?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 05, 2012, 05:02:26 PM

Yeah, you get to do four individuals for each faction with Talents in there, don't you?  Can get in a little diversity that way.

Custom specialists would be nice, but surely too complex.  -"Too much sugar for a nickle", we say 'round these parts...

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on October 06, 2012, 06:30:14 AM

Programmatically, it would be easier to clone the whole set of citizens and specialists rather than have specialists as an exception. Of course, art wise they can just be the same images copy/pasted down.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on October 06, 2012, 12:08:12 PM

I 'spose that depends on the code, doesn't it?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2013, 12:03:30 AM

scient, did you learn anything about this?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Yitzi on April 17, 2013, 05:15:18 AM

Quote from: BUncle on October 02, 2012, 12:32:51 PM

I wouldn't think that would be too hard to code, if one could do that scient stuff at all...

Actually, I would think it would be.

A general rule for assembly-language patching/modding: If the new system requires keeping track of more information than the old system, it'll probably be somewhere between hard and impossible to code.  (I managed to make do with the extra alphax variables by replacing some landmark info, and even that had its flaws; 2.0 will replace that with reducing the technical maximum* for previously existing rules, but that's a lot of work.)

On the other hand, if Scient says he can do it, maybe it's not as hard as I thought.

*The game sets limits that are stricter than that anyway; I'm actually removing the existing limits.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 17, 2013, 05:37:06 AM

Well drat.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on April 18, 2013, 01:04:18 PM

*bumps anyway so scient might see it and comment*

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: scient on April 18, 2013, 09:10:18 PM

There are mechanics that already exist inside base structure to handle the gradual change of base structure from original faction to their new orders after being captured.  This mechanic could be applied to population.  The problem will be adding in the loading of pcx data for indiv factions citizens.  Right now, it just uses one for all besides human vs alien.  The limitation would be if there is room or someplace in faction structure to link to this information.  Actually modifying code to display diff talents and what not would be relatively simple. The problem is finding the room to load the pcx data based on way game handles memory and structures.

Before I target something like this, I think I would try the more modest goal of enable negative resource icons for base structure.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 18, 2013, 09:15:27 PM

...Adding a row of citizen icons to the main faction .pcxs would be simple once the icons are designed and made.  My main concern would be that it would tend to render the modded version incompatible with vanilla faction files, absent a if-nothing's-there-default-to-the-old-way line in the new code.

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Kilkakon on April 28, 2013, 10:01:08 AM

Alright, let us know if you work on this. :)

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Geo on April 28, 2013, 07:10:59 PM

Quote from: scient on April 18, 2013, 09:10:18 PM

Before I target something like this, I think I would try the more modest goal of enable negative resource icons for base structure.

Negative resource icons? Do you mean instead of that icon that depicts a tile can't be worked for some reason minus depiction of nutrients, minerals and energy, in detail?

Title: Re: Multiple different types of citizens in one city
Post by: Buster's Uncle on April 28, 2013, 07:35:33 PM

He means negative icons - squares that actually suck up resources, like a borehole worked by the base costing a nut.  I did the art for it slightly over four years ago, back at 'poly.  Darsnan was eager to use it, IIRC...